Wild Alive Scratching for Meaning and Purpose

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What's working on purpose anyway? Each
week we ponder the answer to this question.

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People ache for meaning and purpose at
work, to contribute their talents passionately

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and know their lives really matter.
They crave being part of an organization that

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inspires them and helps them grow into
realizing their highest potential. Business can be

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such a force for good in the
world, elevating humanity. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration to help
usher in this world we all want

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Working on purpose now. Here is
your host, doctor Elise Cortes. Welcome

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back to Working a Purpose program.
Thanks for tuning in again this week.

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I'm your host, doctor Elise cortest
On. You're live from Dallas, Texas,

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which is home base for me.
Don't know me yet. I'm a

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management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose, organizational logotherapist, inspirational speaker, social

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scientist, and author. You can
learn more about me and how we can

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work together at Eleascortes dot com,
orgustodeshnow dot com. Let me let me

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thank my partner and sponsor work Proud. We are a perfect collaboration. Everyone

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wants to know they matter and that
the work they do is meaningful and appreciated.

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Work Proud as a mobile platform built
to encourage employees to share stories and

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recognize each other's contribution. Work crowd
empowers hr and business leaders to help create

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company cultures where all employees are inspired
to feel proud of their work and proud

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of their company. Learn more at
workproud dot com. With us today is

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Ken Banks. He's the head of
Social Purpose at YODI and a British award

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winning social entrepreneur, mobile technology and
global development expert with an undergraduate major in

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social anthropology with developmental studies. He
is best known for developing Frontline SMS,

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a mobile messaging platform today used by
nonprofits in over one hundred and ninety countries

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on the world. Is the author
of three books, the latest of which

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is The Pursuit of Purpose Part No
More, Part Study, a book about

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finding your way in the world.
We'll be talking today about this book,

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as well as his what I like
to call wild Alife, Scratching for meaning

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and purpose and social entrepreneurship. He
joined today from Cambridge, England. Ken

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Welcome to Working on Purpose. Thank
you very much, lovely to be with

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you. It's wonderful. Well,
I'm so happy to get to share you

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with our listeners and devour you myself. I loved reading your three books and

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learning about you going through your website. Ken. What an amazing journey that

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you've had in this life. It's
really remarkable the trajectory that you have covered

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in the short time you've been on
the planet. Yeah, and none of

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it was planned really either. It
just happens. And that's the most amazing

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thing for me. Well, it
is, and you know, I want

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to start by sharing your earlier life
experiences because listeners and viewers, I think

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will find it very inspiring to know
really where you came from and really what

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you had to get through to navigate
and find your way today. So I

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want to talk about your early life, and of course you narrate this in

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your Pursuit of Purpose book, which
of course I love toccou't wait to read

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the rest when it comes out,
by the way, so send it over

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stat But you talk about your early
life of desperately seeking direction meaning purpose,

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and I love when you say this, you say quote, I did eventually

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realize what I was missing, something
to channel all of my emotion, empathy,

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energy and passion into other than tears. I was in need of some

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sort of purpose, although it wasn't
really called that back then. So what

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I want to do here is talk
about those earlier parts of your life that

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contributed to how you see yourself today
and who you became. So will you

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just kind of start wherever you feel
appropriate? Sure? So I'm from Jersey

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in the Channel Islands. That's the
island of Jersey, not New Jersey.

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I always find myself having to clarify
that because people hear my accents and they

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get very confused. So I came
from a very small island in the English

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Channel. A beautiful place is a
financial center as well, so you know,

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it's quite a privileged place to be
brought up. But I grew up

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on a housing estate. Wasn't the
best environment really to be on. My

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father was a bit unreliable, a
bit of a chancer. He died when

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I was five, leaving my mother
with me and my brother and two sisters,

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and we had a sort of a
challenging upbringing, I would say,

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and I think some of the struggles
I went through very early on, those

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are the first ten twelve years of
my life where I was very emotional about

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things, I felt very insecure.
I didn't quite know or feel happy in

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my environment. I think they gave
me sort of an insight and a drive

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to really work hard to find my
way out of that, because I didn't

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want my whole life to be like
that. And I think those are the

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very early memories. But my mom
was very encouraging. I mean everything I

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showed an interest in, she worked
really hard to nurture that interest, and

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I think that was absolutely key for
me. I want to call attention to

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what you would talk about your you
know this too sensitive stuff that you talk

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about in your book, because I
think it's remarkable what I what I see

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when I read that, Ken is
I would call that a profound, sensible

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sensitivity intelligence which has given you a
tremendous insight into the world. And I

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can't imagine how heavy the burden was
to live with that. But I want

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to call that out because you know
you were you didn't do well in school.

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I think you said you failed six
of your eight exams, and on

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top of that, you're considered too
sensitive, intelligent, but maybe not directed.

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I forget what the phrase was.
So these things that the world didn't

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seem to understand about you were stacked
against you and then labeled on you.

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Yeah. Absolutely, you know I
was emotional about so many things growing up.

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I mean I think the environment didn't
help. There was plenty of things

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to get upset about. You know. Where I grew up wasn't great,

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you know, having a single parent, going to a school where a lot

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of my school friends came from broken
homes or they came from children's homes,

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and never really having money, not
really knowing what I wanted to do.

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I think most young children don't know
what they want to do. But I

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didn't feel like I had the possibility
of doing anything. I think quite often

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children dream of doing things, and
there's a certain reality sometimes in that dream.

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But for me, that wasn't the
case. So I always felt myself,

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you know, very just felt like
nothing really was possible. I felt

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like I was stuck in a hole. I did cry a lot. My

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mum despaired, I think, and
as I mentioned in the book, I

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tried very hard to not be a
burden on her, but I think I

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failed at that, and you know, when things did have eventually turned around,

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she was pretty amazed. I think, looking back at that child,

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to think I actually had got anything
out of my life, let alone the

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kind of things that did happen,
which we of course we want to showcase

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well. And as we were talking
about before we came on air, right,

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there's this whole thing about being able
to stand in the moment and whatever

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comes our way, chance, look, whatever it might be. You had

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a great fortune, if you will, working at club and you got to

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work on this pet pet computer with
mister Cooper, which set you on your

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path through a career in technology,
which is what you've done, as I

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understand, without any real formal training
in technology. Yeah, that's right.

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The local club. There was only
one place any of the children where I

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grew up could go, and that
was a club run by this mister Cooper,

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who self funded it, ran it. You know, he just loved

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what he did. He was a
teacher, but I think he recognized that

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there was a need for somewhere for
children to go and focus their efforts on

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the estate and the two or three
hundred children on this estate but nowhere to

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go and nothing to do, so
he created this club. And at the

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club there was these Commodore pet computers, and this was very early in the

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days of computing, and most children
played games and they plied Space Invaders or

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as almost recognize them as games,
but they're very different, of course,

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how they are today. I wasn't
happy with that. I wanted to figure

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out how other thing worked. I
wanted to break into the code. I

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wanted to understand what was going on. And you know, me and my

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brother have been very curious about all
sorts of things growing up, buying old

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television, taking them apart, buying
old radios, creating dashboards like Star Trek

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and pretending we were flying spaceships.
And so, you know, with mister

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Cooper, I had this really great
opportunity to explore computing at a time when

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most people weren't really doing it all
because he left us loose on it,

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and that was the start of my
IT career when I was about probably a

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eleven or twelve years old. But
yet you still didn't just go with like

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the other kids, ken You didn't
just go to play. You wanted to

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go break it apart through how it
works. And I find myself always stunned

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and amazed at just the beauty of
the unique human spirit that emerges from each

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of us. Clearly, there's something
in you that was calling for that,

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even though you weren't necessarily looking for
a career in technology. When you got

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confronted with it, you clearly opted
into it in a way that most of

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the other kids didn't. Yeah,
I mean, I think throughout life I've

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been I question everything. So I'm
like that annoying child that's grown up into

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an annoying adult. And I never
take anything for granted. I never take

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anything on face value. I always
want to dive deeper and understand. And

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I think with the computer, there
was this box that did things that just

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mesmerized me. I just couldn't understand
how it did. It was it was

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incredible. And you know, later
on as National Geographic picks on my work

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and all the kind of sense of
exploring, live curious, which was their

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slogan for a while, I think
that absolutely typified typified me. So I

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just instinctively wanted to know how things
worked. I instinctively wanted to know why,

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and so you know, when I
had this opportunity to do it on

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these computers, it was just it
opened up this whole new world, and

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I just seemed to be naturally good
at it. You know, I didn't

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read any books, I wasn't given
any instruction. I just sat there for

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my hour and I just figured it
out. And that's been the central sort

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of pillar of my whole career ever
since. Brilliant It's brilliant well, and

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then keeping along this whole journey of
you know how you were reaching for something

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else in the world. Here you
are a very symp sympathetic, sensitive,

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empathetic young person, and you said
that one of the other things that really

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had an impact on you that was
the Live Aid concert. I think that

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was eighty five, wasn't it or
was it eighty five? I don't remember

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that, but I did get represent
to it when I watched Bohemian Rhapsody,

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and that was twice. I loved
that movie. So why those Live Aid

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so big for you? Well?
I had heard about obviously, do they

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know It's Christmas? Was the big
Christmas single by band Aid and that came

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out the previous Christmas or later the
previous year, and so that sort of

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thrust the Ethiopian famine onto our TV
screens. Nobody knew about it. The

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Ethiopian government had done a very good
job of basically hiding it from everybody.

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And the BBC reporter stumbled into this
biblical famine. The single came out,

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there was suddenly all this press,
sitting at home, you know, relatively

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comfortably in Jersey, suddenly seeing this
whole new world of poverty, suffering,

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you know, children starving. It
was for somebody who got upset very easily,

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and for somebody who's always overthinking things. It was a real shot to

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my senses. And so when a
Live Aid came out six or seven months

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later, it was extension of the
Christmas single, and I just saw more

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of it, and I just wanted
to understand, just like the commonew pet,

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why is Ethiopia like that? Why
are so many people suffering? Why

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are we so well off when they're
not so well off? Why is there

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this imbalance? Who isn't fixing it? You know, these kinds of questions.

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So it gave me that avenue that
you quoted earlier, and I needed

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something that I could focus on,
that I could perhaps have an impact on

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that was upsetting me rather than just
getting upset for no reason. And live

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a really focused me on that.
Fascinating, absolutely fascinating. And your story

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is so compelling. And what's interesting
is you and I are about the same

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age, Ken, and you and
I hit some similar kinds of places along

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our lives where we had similar questions. So I'm very fascinating with your journey,

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and I think many of their listeners
and viewers will find themselves in it

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as well. So somewhere in there, so let's see, So you must

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have been starting working sometime in what
eighty six or something like that, or

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maybe before around then, properly working
around that sort of time. Yeah,

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and you had a job in technology. Was that what I can't remember exactly

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from your books. Well, I
did pay per rounds and earned money writing

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programs for mister Cooper. So I
side jobs when I was very young.

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That's my early entrepreneurial flare. I
fell into finance. I left school finance.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's
right. Well, so what I

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also think is interesting is somewhere in
there you had, if I recall it

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right, in your first couple of
jobs in finance, you would still had

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this sort of niggling feeling like but
is this really where I want to be?

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Is this really going to be enough
for me? Is this all I

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can do? Or something along those
lines. There were some questions about is

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this where I want where I want
the game to end? Yeah, well,

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you know, back then there were
still jobs for life, and finance

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was booming, and almost everybody I
was working with took great comfort in knowing

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their retirement date and their pension.
I used to clock watch. I never

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used to walk in the office until
bang on nine o'clock. I used to

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leave bang on one for lunch,
and I'd hang around outside till two.

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You know, I absolutely did not
like what I was doing, but there

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was nothing else I could really do
at that time. And so, you

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know, the questions I was asking
myself was, Oh, my goodness,

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is this what working life is like? Is this what a job is like?

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Where you live to earn the money
and then the money is spent on

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making your life happy. But every
minute you're at work, you're miserable.

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And I just couldn't face that.
I just couldn't face that, And it

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freekicks me out thinking that that might
be what working life was like. It

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really I can appreciate that on so
many levels. And so then all the

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more interesting and compelling that you found
your way to Zambia in nineteen ninety three,

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and that what did your appetite for
I believe your international development work was

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that your first international trip that was
my first trip. Absolutely okay, and

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so would tell us for listeners how
did that come about? So? I

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was due to meet a girlfriend in
a pub at a certain time for lunch.

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I got to the wrong pub at
the wrong time. There were no

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mobile phones to correct the situation.
I heard a thing on the radio about

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a tourist train that was going to
go and dominate the cycle track that I

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went to work on. It really
annoyed me that a train was going on

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my cycle track. I bought the
paper to write a letter of complaint,

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saw an ad for this trip to
Zambia that summer, and I continually had

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live aid on my mind. Even
for those eight years. I was continually

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looking for outlets and avenues for my
passion to do some good. And suddenly

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the Zambia trip fell on my lap, but only because I was in the

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wrong pub at the wrong time,
listening to a story on the radio that

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drove me to action. It was
so serendipitous, it was crazy. It

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was meant to be. I think, I really do, mm hmm.

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Absolutely. And that goes back again
to those chance moments that you talk about

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in your book, and we talked
about before we came on air and remind

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us when you did go to Zambia, what were you doing again? So

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we were helping to build teaching accommodation
for local schools. Most teachers would leave

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Zambia when they were trained up because
the money was better elsewhere, so giving

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teachers places to live was an incentive
for them to stay. So we were

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working on a project to build a
school accommodation. And was that a paid

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job or a volunteer job? It
was a volunteer job. It was five

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weeks. I paid a bit of
money. The States of Jersey government subsidized

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it quite but you know, going
from Jersey to rural Zambia, and my

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goodness, what a shock. Suddenly
I was seeing a well I've never seen

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before. Yeah, I appreciate that. I'm from Oregon, originally a small

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town and then got the chance to
live in Spain and Brazil in my mid

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twenties when Oliver Western Europ in South
America had my mind blown wide open.

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So in some now, that's not
rural Zambia, but definitely a mind blowing

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experience. So I want to hear
more about what happened from there. But

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let's first grab our first break.
I'm Elice Cortez, your host. We've

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been there with Ken Banks. He's
head of Social Purpose at YODI. We've

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been talking about his earlier life and
his yearning from meaning and purpose. After

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the break, we're going to hear
more about what I like to call his

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wild life scratching. Stay with us, we'll be right back. Doctor Release

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Cortez is a management consultant specializing in
meaning and purpose and inspirational speaker and author.

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She helps companies visioneer for greater purpose
among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership

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and meaning in used cultures that elevate
fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the

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workforce. To learn more or to
invite Elise to speak to your organization,

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00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:14.080
please visit her at Eleasecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your

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employees working on purpose. This is
working on purpose with doctor Elise Cortes.

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To reach our program today or open
a conversation with Alise, send an email

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00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:37.399
to a lease Alise at Elisecortes dot
com. Now back to working on purpose.

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Thanksteresting with us, and welcome back
to working on purpose. As I

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watched the pandemic continue to go on, we look for ways to help companies

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support their employees to handle the anxiety, stress, depression and feeling as connected

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while also helping to lift and inspire
them with ongoing professional development. So we

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00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:03.039
now offer a learning weapon our series
called Grab your Gusto Vital Wellbeing from the

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00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:06.319
inside Out. You can learn more
about it at eliscorretest dot com or shoot

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00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:08.839
me an email to Elise at least
coortest dot com if you're just joining the

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00:17:08.880 --> 00:17:11.759
program. My guest today is Ken
Banks. He's the head of Social Purpose

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at YODI. He's also a British
award winning social entrepreneur, mobile technology and

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global development expert, and has an
undergraduate major in social anthropology with developmental studies.

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He's the author of three books,
the latest of which is The Pursuit

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of Purpose Apartment Noir, Part Study, a book about finding your way in

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the world. He joins it today
from Cambridge, England. I'm your host,

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doctor Elise Cortes. So for this
next segment here Ken, what I

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want to do is delve into some
of those amazing this like I don't even

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pope re have experiences that you have
in your life right that really I would

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call it a tremendous stirring machine.
Right. In fact, I want you

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to know something. I was not
running yesterday and running twelve miles, and

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as I was thinking about this,
and I was thinking, you know,

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there's a direct proportion to the discomfort
as you call it, that you need

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in life. I call it agitation, those moments that kind of shake us

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up or cause us to get out
of our own comfort, discomfort that the

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size of which is directly proportionate to
our growth and change. That's how I

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tend to think of it. I
thank you for that, because you gave

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me that sort of nuanced idea on
my run yesterday. But I was thinking

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about all these things that you went
through and did as you went along from

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this whole path here. And first
I want to talk about the fact that

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I think it was twice that you
literally sold everything that you had packed up

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and left the country you were living
in. Is that right? Twice?

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Yes? It is? Yes,
Okay, tell you at the ages and

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the circumstances again, real quick.
First one was thirty when I went to

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university, and then the second one
was about thirty four when I left Finland

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and came back to the UK.
Interesting, Yes, similar kinds of times

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in my life that I did similar
kinds of things fascinating, but I didn't

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sell everything that I had and then
upbrit and go. So now somewhere in

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there you had this crazy idea to
start to create your own website Kawanja,

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and that was in two thousand and
one, and you say it was to

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socialize your interest and it was a
desperate cry for help. So what was

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that all about? So that very
first website was called a gc Hill.

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Huaner came a little bit later.
And what I did when I was at

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that point in Finland where I had
once again I had set out on this

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journey to try and find meaning,
purpose, something to do with my life,

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which once again had ended in failure. And it was becoming a real

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habit, just going out looking for
things. And it wasn't sure I was

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even looking for so I wouldn't even
know what success looked like. But when

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I when I before I left Finland, I just got desperate. So I

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built a website that was called a
Gezee hill dot com and it was named

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after a hill in Uganda that we
used to climb up and just look across

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at the savannah. And I just
put a manifesto, a rant just to

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kind of just basically threw everything out
to the world. And I thought,

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somebody must read this, and somebody
must empathize with my situation and think,

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you know, we've got to help
this guy. But of course, you

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know, nobody need knew the website
was there, nobody knew who I was,

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nobody knew who what I was even
really asking for, and so it

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achieved nothing, just like everything else
I had tried up to that point had

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it actually achieved nothing. So I
knew what failure looked like. I was

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very good at failure for a long
time. Well, and I so appreciate

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that, right, And it's just
a continual march on and in somewhere you

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find your way into studying social anthropology
and just sore at it. Which I

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want to contrast. You know,
your earlier years and studies were it wasn't

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a good experience for you. You
weren't successful, and the whole probably the

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approach was very different, and maybe
you were studying something that you didn't care

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as much about. But I would
say the difference from what at least you

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describe it in your book is night
and day. Right, you were you

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finished pretty much at the top of
your class for the social anthropology course or

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degree, I should say so for
our listeners, why anthropology? So you

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know, anthropology was complete luck and
it turned out to be central to my

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career because I was interested in global
development, and I decided when I left

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Jersey, which was the first time
I sold up and left, I looked

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at universities where I could study social
anthropology. And it turned out my great

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great grandfather was mayor of this town
in England, so there's this whole crazy

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family history, which the book also
touches on a bit. So I applied

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to Sussex, and you couldn't just
do development studies. You had to do

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it with something. It was with
French, with Spanish, with library studies,

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with knitting, with some other thing. But one of those things was

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social anthropology, and I thought,
oh, that sounds interesting. I quite

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like the sound of that. I
like people, so I took it and

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it completely reshaped the way I thought
about how you study people and problems and

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contexts and cultures and geographies, which
was a really key part to my later

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work actually being successful. And again
that was a luck chance thing that happened

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to me. So thank you Sussex
University for forcing me at the beginning to

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take that subject. I think it's
brilliant. Again, what I also appreciated

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about how these things all come together
a story right as we can see how

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it all fits in the rearview mirror. It makes so much sense at that

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juncture, not while we're going through
it. And then somewhere in there,

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you landed a job at Cable and
Wireless. What was that and when?

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So that was in ninety nine.
I graduated near top of the class.

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As you say, I needed money. I didn't know what to do after

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that. Really, it's very hard
to get professional jobs in the humanitarian sector.

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They're highly competitive. So I just
saw a job for a Cable and

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Wireless. It was technology. I
was good at technology. I thought it'd

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be fun to drive around in a
van for a while, and so I

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became a team leader, which was
funny because I'd never done this job before

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and I was in charge of twenty
other engineers and it was great. I

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mean, I loved working with twenty
dedicated, fun, engaged, talented people

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and the share Again, they're just
I like, I think a popoury is

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the right word for you. So
then we go on. You already talked

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about your volunteer experience in Zambia,
but you also volunteered in Uganda. When

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was that and what were you doing? So went to Ganda twice. I

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went two years after the Zambia trip
for the first time, and that was

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to help build the hospital, and
that was the same kind of trip as

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the Zambia trip had been. And
then the second time to Uganda was in

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the middle of my degree where I'd
found this conservation project which we're looking for

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volunteers to do biodiversity surveys for three
months out in the middle of nowhere in

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Uganda. And I quite like the
idea of being out in the middle of

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nowhere. I've always had that.
I've always liked the idea of disappearing.

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I've always liked the idea of being
living a very basic, simple existence without

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the complications of our lives. And
so that was a very appealing trip.

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So that was the second time I
went to Uganda. Okay, And then

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we have to talk about your year
stint in Nigeria working with the primates.

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I then sounds amazing, and your
pictures and what you talk about in your

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book is so compelling. Oh,
I'll never forget what you said, is

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that you know, in terms of
the primates, you know they are harvesting

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the mothers for their meat and then
keeping the babies for pets. And that,

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Oh, I'll never forget what you
said in your book, and that

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you know a lot of those babies
they would have broken limbs from being pulled

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away, you know, torn away
from their mother. I can't imagine what

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you saw and witnessed in a year. How in the world did that trip

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come about? Well, you know, you know, even though I get

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upset easily, and I know I'm
very sensitive, I've never shied away from

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facing the things that upset me,
because I think that's what drives you.

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Right. I think quite often we
need to be more angry about things,

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and we need to be more upset
about things. When I came back from

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Finland after failing there to achieve very
much, I was sleeping on a couch

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and it was actually nine to eleven
the day I found this vacancy, so

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I remember being I spent a day
on university campus using their computer. I

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found this random volunteer role in Nigeria
to run this primate sanctuary. I came

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back, and then I saw the
news and everything that was happening with the

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Twin Towers. But I love primates. I've seen primates at Jersey Zoo.

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I mean, who doesn't love primates. It was conservation, it was living

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in a developing country. It was
doing something that felt like it was going

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to contribute in a meaningful way.
And very few people want us to go

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and live and work in Nigeria.
I mean, it had a terrible reputation

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and it still actually does. But
most people were just too afraid to throw

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themselves at it. My mom thought
I was mad. Most of my friends

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00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:17.720
thought I was mad. Most people
thought I'd come back in a box.

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00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:21.880
I nearly did come back in a
box. But I lasted the year,

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and I did it. I saw
things I wouldn't ever want to see again.

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But you know, you learn,
You learned by being jarred, by

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00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:30.920
being put out of your comfort zone, by seeing things that really get to

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00:25:32.000 --> 00:25:34.960
you. And I certainly had that. Yeah, so I do know.

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00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:37.359
So we've talked about two things,
and I want to get the timing rate.

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00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:44.240
So your motorcycle accident in Nigeria completely
transformed your life. It ushered in

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00:25:44.240 --> 00:25:47.680
a whole different place. What I'm
not sure about time wise is if you

395
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:52.119
created frontline SMS before that or after
that. That was two years after that.

396
00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:56.440
So my theory and bike crash put
me on the path that led to

397
00:25:56.519 --> 00:26:00.160
that. Okay, so this is
an interesting story. You were on a

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00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:03.519
motorcycle with somebody else riding driving,
and then somebody else. There are three

399
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:07.480
of you on the motorcycle, you
go down, you break your leg big

400
00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:11.920
time, and you're in a back
home in Jersey six days later something like

401
00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:15.079
that. Right, So what was
it tell us about? What was it

402
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about that experience that ushered in a
new a new way forward for you?

403
00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:22.759
You know, I'd sent out from
Jersey, you know, six five or

404
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:26.119
six years earlier, and I spent
all that time running around selling everything,

405
00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:29.680
doing crazy stuff, and I ended
up back where I started. But it

406
00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:33.160
wasn't just that I was homeless,
jobless, penniless, with a broken leg.

407
00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:37.279
So I've gone backwards and just out
of the blue, somebody I used

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00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:41.960
to work with a Jersey zoo and
I wrote the computer systems for Geraldnrel's Jersey

409
00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:45.400
Zoo. They didn't realize I'd even
been away. They got hold of me.

410
00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:48.039
They phoned up where I was staying, and they said, oh,

411
00:26:48.079 --> 00:26:52.400
Ken, we need somebody who understands
conservation technology and has worked in Africa.

412
00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:56.359
Are in a job And I said, oh, that sounds perfect for me.

413
00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:00.880
So I hobble on crutches to the
UK for an interview, and I

414
00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:04.839
got a job doing all the things. Everything I'd done over all those years,

415
00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:11.519
which seemed random and bitty and this
scatter brained all suddenly came together in

416
00:27:11.559 --> 00:27:14.240
a phone call which I wouldn't have
been there to take if I hadn't broken

417
00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:17.039
my leg. That's another thing I
just don't get, you know, like

418
00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:21.200
that's a career break, right,
I mean quite literally, that isn't in

419
00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:26.079
all senses of the phrase. Yeah. Okay. So then where were you

420
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:27.400
that where I know you were?
You ought to be somewhere, I think

421
00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:30.960
in Africa when you had the idea
to build frontliners, and that so tell

422
00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:34.359
us the story of how that happened
and what you were trying to help with.

423
00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:40.160
So in two thousand and three,
when I went to Africa and started

424
00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:42.039
doing this work with this charity which
came as a result of the phone call,

425
00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:47.119
it was looking at how mobile technology
could be useful in conservation and development

426
00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:48.880
work, and nobody was really doing
it in any in depth way. So

427
00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:52.240
it's an incredible time to be doing
it. And we traveled a lot in

428
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:56.240
rural areas. We went to Mozambique
a few times, and we realized that

429
00:27:56.279 --> 00:28:02.759
mobile phones could be transformative for rural
communities. But almost every piece of technology

430
00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:04.640
I found that was being built by
people, mostly people that looked like me,

431
00:28:04.759 --> 00:28:08.079
by the way, not people in
those countries, was aimed at large

432
00:28:08.119 --> 00:28:11.839
international NGOs that could paid lots of
money, and it wasn't aimed at the

433
00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:17.279
people on the ground who actually lived
and experienced and suffered from the problems.

434
00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:19.880
And that angered me. It really
angered me because I thought the best people

435
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:23.440
to fix these problems are the people
who were there, who were experience it,

436
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:27.359
and they're motivated to fix it.
So I built a messaging platform that

437
00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:30.880
allowed you to do mass text messaging, and I built it in a way

438
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:37.119
that meant it worked for the people
who were suffering and experiencing the problems,

439
00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:40.160
and I just gave it to them
that here you go, off, you

440
00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:42.359
go do whatever you want to do
with this. It's free, it's yours,

441
00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:45.599
and I'll help you if you need
me. But if you don't need

442
00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:51.039
me, that's fine, And so
it was influenced on a lot of the

443
00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:55.559
work that I did and my frustration
that kind of topped down, you know,

444
00:28:55.640 --> 00:29:00.279
Western dominated technology solutions. And it
was at least, if not in

445
00:29:00.319 --> 00:29:03.880
the very beginning, somewhere in there, that your messaging system was used to

446
00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:07.839
monitor the presidential elections. Correct,
that's right, Yes, in Nigeria of

447
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:11.440
all places. Yeah, that's amazing
or really amazing. Well so now,

448
00:29:11.960 --> 00:29:15.000
and we had to tell all that
story before about how much you were literally

449
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:18.599
feeling like you were reaching for something
that would provide your meaning and purpose and

450
00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:23.440
you're feeling that you and you failed
or worshiped gone backwards, and then you

451
00:29:23.960 --> 00:29:30.920
land in this place where you developed
something that has been used by hundreds of

452
00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:34.240
thousands of people or downloads in one
hundred and ninety countries. What in the

453
00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:42.960
world does that feel like? Flattering? Unbelievable. It exceeded all my expectations,

454
00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:45.920
but it spoke to me of the
value of building things at work for

455
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:49.400
people, because that's all I did. I built a very simple piece of

456
00:29:49.440 --> 00:29:53.319
technology that people could just understand and
use. It wasn't rocket science. It

457
00:29:53.319 --> 00:29:57.519
was a dumb, boring simple solution, but it was just needed. And

458
00:29:57.559 --> 00:30:00.720
the only reason I knew it was
needed was because I bothered to spend the

459
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:06.079
time living and working in the places
where the problems were. And that was

460
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:07.519
it. I mean, it was
stagering. It took a while to get

461
00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:10.759
going. It took about two two
and a half years. So it was

462
00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:12.279
a hobby. It was like stamp
collecting. You know, I was doing

463
00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:15.839
my day job, and I was
going back in supporting Zimbabwe and activists who

464
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:21.119
were trying to overthrow mcgarby or get
Mugarby to stop killing people or you know

465
00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:25.200
you being used in Pakistan or being
used in Afghanistan or being used in other

466
00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:30.319
conflict hotspots. And it was incredibly
I was just proud that I built something

467
00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:33.240
that was helping people solve problems that
I would never really be in a position

468
00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:38.799
to solve myself. It was empowering. Did it feel at all like gosh,

469
00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:44.599
all of this struggle was worth it? Did it register on that level

470
00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:48.799
or how did it register? It
did actually start to feel like it was

471
00:30:48.839 --> 00:30:52.440
worth it? When it started to
really you know, I started to get

472
00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:56.079
these people contacting me, and I
started to realize that I was helping people

473
00:30:56.119 --> 00:31:00.240
who are doing incredibly valuable work,
in many cases in very dangerous place is

474
00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:03.839
supporting them in a way that I
never dreamt i'd be able to support them.

475
00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:06.839
And so I think, you know, breaking my leg was a very

476
00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:08.759
unpleasant experience. Some of the other
things I saw, you know, in

477
00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:14.400
the private sanctuaries are very unpleasant experiences, but I think they were prices worth

478
00:31:14.440 --> 00:31:18.519
paying to get the knowledge and the
insight which I needed in order to build

479
00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:22.440
the thing that ended up changing my
life and changing the lives of many other

480
00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:25.920
people. So you know, it's
who I am, and I'm only the

481
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:29.200
person I am because I put myself
through the things I put myself through.

482
00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:36.000
We're going to continue this conversation and
get more into the space of social entrepreneurship.

483
00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:38.160
Let's grab our last break. I'm
Alice Cortes, her host Read on

484
00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:41.319
the air with Ken Banks. He
is head of Social Purpose at YODI.

485
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:45.319
We've been talking a bit about some
of the amazing popery of experiences that he's

486
00:31:45.319 --> 00:31:49.160
accumulated over his life and then how
they led him to where he was able

487
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:52.839
to create frontline SMS. After the
break, we're going to hear more about

488
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:56.480
what he's doing these days and his
take on social entrepreneurship. Stay with us,

489
00:31:56.480 --> 00:32:01.680
We'll be right back. Doctor release
court Tes as a management consultant specializing

490
00:32:01.720 --> 00:32:07.119
in meaning and purpose and inspirational speaker
and author. She helps companies visioneer for

491
00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:15.359
greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose
inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate

492
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:20.920
fulfillment, performance, and commitment within
the workforce. To learn more or to

493
00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:25.039
invite Elise to speak to your organization, please visit her at Eleasecortes dot com.

494
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:37.000
Let's talk about how to get your
employees working on purpose. This is

495
00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:40.759
Working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or open

496
00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:49.559
a conversation with Alise, send an
email to Aleise Alise at Elisecortes dot com.

497
00:32:49.720 --> 00:32:59.599
Now back to working on Purpose.
Thanks foresting with us, and welcome

498
00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:01.799
back to Working on Purpose. I
mentioned after the first break about the Grab

499
00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:06.480
Your Gusta while being a webcast learning
series. The content of this program is

500
00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:09.759
adapted from part one of my recently
published book called Purpose Ignited, How Inspiring

501
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:14.920
Leaders ignite passion and Elevate Cause,
which is now avable on Amazon. I

502
00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:17.680
wrote that book to awaken readers to
their passion and purpose and help transform them

503
00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:22.640
into inspirational leaders who enlive in the
workplace and elevate the contribution of all business

504
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:27.240
to the stakeholders. So, if
you're just joining guess my guest today is

505
00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:30.319
Ken Banks. He is the head
of Social Purpose at YODE. He's also

506
00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:35.160
a British award winning social entrepreneur,
mobile technology and global development expert with an

507
00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:39.079
undergraduate major in social anthropology with developmental
studies. He is the best known for

508
00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:45.400
his developing Frontline SMS, a mobile
managing platform excuse me, mobile messaging platform

509
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:50.400
used by nonprofits in over one hundred
ninety countries around the world. Just today

510
00:33:50.400 --> 00:33:53.559
from Cambridge, England, I'm your
host, doctor Release Cortes. So from

511
00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:59.279
here I want to go back to
your SMS platform. So you left that

512
00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:01.720
I think in twoy twelve and let
others take it forward. So first,

513
00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:05.680
how did you realize it was time
for you to step out and go do

514
00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:10.119
something else. I think I had
memories back to when I hated work,

515
00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:17.119
probably, so you know, I
know, getting flashbacks to Jersey and standing

516
00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:21.960
outside the bank until ten seconds to
nine and then going into work. I

517
00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:24.599
know what I'm good at and I
also know what I'm not good at,

518
00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:28.320
and I'm just very honest with myself. Life is too short to not be

519
00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:30.719
honest with yourself. And I was
starting to do things I didn't enjoy.

520
00:34:31.159 --> 00:34:35.960
I was finding myself further and further
removed from the users, further and further

521
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:39.360
removed from the problems and challenges that
technology could solve. And it was becoming

522
00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:44.800
about raising money, hiring staff,
filling in anti corruption policies for donors.

523
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:47.280
It was the mechanics of running an
organization. And I never signed up to

524
00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:50.800
do that. So I just thought, you know, I've taken it as

525
00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:52.320
far as I can. I've had
a good run. I had five very

526
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:57.320
good years where I won almost everything
I could imagine, winning fellowships, mac

527
00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:00.480
Gio Awards. I mean, it
was incredible. I thought, well,

528
00:35:00.519 --> 00:35:02.440
I probably should quit one. I'm
ahead, So I quit one. Was

529
00:35:02.480 --> 00:35:07.159
ahead, brilliant. Well, before
we get into what you were doing to

530
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:10.360
YOI there would be one about six
years between that time. So what did

531
00:35:10.360 --> 00:35:15.639
you do in those years? I
tried a few projects. I was very

532
00:35:15.679 --> 00:35:20.800
keen on local bartering, local exchange
systems, local community empowerment. I wrote

533
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:24.800
a couple of books, The Rise
of the Reluctant Innovator was Lust, which

534
00:35:24.840 --> 00:35:29.159
was about nine other, well ten
people who had stories like mine, you

535
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:31.880
know, kind of fell into some
big problem they never really expected and ended

536
00:35:31.960 --> 00:35:36.920
up their lives, ended up devoting
themselves to doing that. So that was

537
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:38.559
my first book. That was quite
a lot of work. I consulted,

538
00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:42.960
I traveled around a bit. I
spent time on a ship with Archbishop Desmond

539
00:35:42.960 --> 00:35:45.840
too too, sailing in the Pacific
talking to students, and he did the

540
00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:49.719
forward in fact, to the Rise
of the Innovator. I did another book

541
00:35:49.719 --> 00:35:52.239
that Peter Gabriel, the famous musician, did a forward for. I mean,

542
00:35:52.280 --> 00:35:54.360
this is all kind of the weird
stuff, even in just me just

543
00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:58.320
saying that now, it just sounds
very weird. So I consulted, I

544
00:35:58.360 --> 00:36:00.639
earned money, I started the family. I settled down a bit and became

545
00:36:00.679 --> 00:36:05.480
a bit normal, I suppose.
Well, So what I like to think

546
00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:08.119
about it, Ken is you've accumulated
all these experiences in your life, and

547
00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:12.079
it was even though your mother never
got the chance to meet your children,

548
00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:15.079
it seems I think it's beautiful that
you also got that experience too, on

549
00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:19.000
top of everything else that you've done. And I'm thrilled about that, and

550
00:36:19.079 --> 00:36:23.519
I'm really captivated to understand. You
came to yod in twenty eighteen, in

551
00:36:23.559 --> 00:36:28.599
you today are a head of social
purpose. So what I find fascinating about

552
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:31.760
that you've stopped engaging on your Kouwanja
site. Then, so I think we

553
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:36.360
need to understand just what in the
world does Yodi do and how has it

554
00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:42.000
so captivated you. So Yoti is
a digital identity company. They have a

555
00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:45.320
product and services that allow you to
prove who you are online and in person.

556
00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:50.000
It can prove elements of your idea, your age, your address,

557
00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:52.480
your nationality, you know, those
kinds of those kinds of things. So

558
00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:58.079
it solves a very big identity issue
that exists on the Internet. I was

559
00:36:58.119 --> 00:37:01.519
actually on their Guardian Council since twenty
sixteen. So they invited me to sit

560
00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:07.159
on this external council where I helped
them with ethical challenges, with kind of

561
00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:09.920
moral issues and challenges as a business
that they might face. And they were

562
00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:14.199
also keen to have people like me
from outside of the sector to be able

563
00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:16.920
to give input and advice on what
they were doing. And they're a b

564
00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:22.000
corp. They have a very strong
set of guiding principles. We have ethics

565
00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:25.079
committees, they have signed up to
all sorts of pledges, so ethically,

566
00:37:25.119 --> 00:37:30.000
they felt like a very good company
who were trying very very hard to do

567
00:37:30.039 --> 00:37:34.559
the right thing. And I saw
so few private sector companies who were that

568
00:37:34.599 --> 00:37:37.199
committed, and so there probably weren't
that many jobs I could have done.

569
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:40.639
To be honest with you, And
because I knew Yoti, the CEO heard

570
00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:45.280
I was looking for a proper job. Kuana was running, but I'd decided,

571
00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:47.079
with a young family, it's time
to get serious. You know,

572
00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:50.320
I've got a mortgage. I need
to bring them up. I want to

573
00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:53.159
go on holiday with them. I
don't be scraping around. So I told

574
00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:57.199
them I was looking for work.
The CEO asked me to sort of explain

575
00:37:57.239 --> 00:37:59.800
what I could do for them,
and I did, and I joined in

576
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:04.039
T eighteen. So it was again
more marriage of convenience in a sense.

577
00:38:04.119 --> 00:38:08.880
There was a spiritually ethically sound company
that spoke to my values that I wanted

578
00:38:08.920 --> 00:38:12.480
to work for. And they had
a vacancy. Well, they made a

579
00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:16.039
vacancy and what does it mean?
Had of social purpose? That's I don't

580
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:20.519
think I've ever seen such a title
before, but I like it. Yeah,

581
00:38:20.599 --> 00:38:22.920
No, I love the title.
Well, it was head of Social

582
00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:25.400
Impact at the beginning, but I
decided that impact was too focused on the

583
00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:30.239
end result. Impact is all about
what's changed, and I felt social purpose

584
00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:36.599
was more about the process and the
ethics and the feeling and the DNA of

585
00:38:36.639 --> 00:38:39.119
what we were trying to do.
So it was changed halfway through to social

586
00:38:39.159 --> 00:38:44.480
Purpose. And my job is to
think about how we can use our human

587
00:38:44.920 --> 00:38:50.280
resources, use our technologies, use
whatever we have to solve social and environmental

588
00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:53.039
problems on the planet. So it's
to take what we have commercially and do

589
00:38:53.159 --> 00:38:57.559
socially beneficial things with it. Kind
of a dream job, really, and

590
00:38:57.639 --> 00:39:00.719
I get paid to do that now, which is you know, wasn't that

591
00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:04.400
wasn't always the case when I was
when I was starting out. Yeah,

592
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:07.239
well absolutely, And you certainly are
a beautiful summer total of everything that you've

593
00:39:07.239 --> 00:39:10.760
accumulated in terms of experiences, your
values, your expression. And I'm really

594
00:39:10.760 --> 00:39:16.519
intrigued with your your focus, your
perspective on social entrepreneurship. You say in

595
00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:22.079
your book The Resistant and the Resistant
Innovator, I think it is and you

596
00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:27.400
describe these people as driven, persistent, ambitious individuals working on innovative solutions to

597
00:39:27.679 --> 00:39:31.119
society's most pressing problems. And what
I find fascinating about that is, of

598
00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:36.920
course that's you, and but you
have a perspective about these these individuals,

599
00:39:36.920 --> 00:39:38.199
and it seems it seems from what
I could tell of the book, that

600
00:39:38.239 --> 00:39:42.519
you have spent some time mentoring these
kinds of people to help them along their

601
00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:46.199
journey. Perfect application of all of
your experiences. Yeah, I mean,

602
00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:51.360
I've always felt, even before I'd
actually achieved anything, I always wanted to

603
00:39:51.639 --> 00:39:54.760
help people. So in even writing
computer programs for Freddie Cooper, which was

604
00:39:54.800 --> 00:39:59.360
helping children with learning difficulties, because
the computer could do that and I was

605
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:01.679
able to help, I wanted to
do it. So I've always been drawn

606
00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:06.239
to be helpful. Sometimes I'm probably
overhelpful. So you know, when I

607
00:40:06.280 --> 00:40:08.800
meet people who are trying to solve
problems, and when I feel I have

608
00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:13.199
something that might help them on their
way and perhaps idea they save them the

609
00:40:13.239 --> 00:40:15.840
pain and the anguish I had to
go through in order to get to a

610
00:40:15.880 --> 00:40:21.480
point of success, it's a no
brainer for me to offer that time and

611
00:40:21.519 --> 00:40:23.559
that effort. And also I feel
I should pay back. You know,

612
00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:28.599
I was lucky. I found my
purpose. I found my meaning. I

613
00:40:28.679 --> 00:40:32.119
excelled, I succeeded, I did
things beyond my wildest dreams. The world

614
00:40:32.199 --> 00:40:37.199
has been kind to me over the
last fifteen years, so I need to

615
00:40:37.239 --> 00:40:39.559
give back. It's payback time,
and so I just feel a very deep

616
00:40:39.639 --> 00:40:45.679
sense of needing to do that.
I love that, and I think the

617
00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:47.679
role would be a such a better
place if more people have took that stance

618
00:40:47.719 --> 00:40:51.599
in that position. I completely agree
with that. And then I want to

619
00:40:51.639 --> 00:40:54.639
go into something that you see in
your book that I think is wildly important

620
00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:59.440
for our listeners, anybody who's even
gravity into this notion of meaning and purpose

621
00:40:59.480 --> 00:41:04.000
and makingerence, especially through social entrepreneurship. But in your in your in your

622
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:07.519
book The Rise of the Reluctant Innovator, you talk about how all ten of

623
00:41:07.519 --> 00:41:10.360
the people featured in this in this
book took their chance, and that what

624
00:41:10.480 --> 00:41:15.280
makes their stories even more interesting is
that in most cases they weren't even looking

625
00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:20.239
for anything to solve. The thing
that ended up taking over their lives was

626
00:41:20.639 --> 00:41:22.800
found them, as you say,
And this speaks to what you and I

627
00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:27.920
talked about at being in the show, why planning isn't necessarily everything, and

628
00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:31.519
that when we embrace serendipity and chance
and look in the pursuit of social change

629
00:41:31.519 --> 00:41:36.679
can actually take take a hold of
us. So you talk also about this

630
00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:40.639
notion of you know, being of
being listening to what's happening out in the

631
00:41:40.639 --> 00:41:45.079
world and understanding it from their front
lines of vantage point, and then developing

632
00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:49.639
the skills to address that. So
I think that's really important because that that's

633
00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:52.000
the you know, as you say
in your book, and as I agree,

634
00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:53.920
the opposite approach that we tend to
learn in school, where we get

635
00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:57.000
a bunch of skills and we go
try to put them to work in the

636
00:41:57.039 --> 00:42:01.760
world. Speak to that really crazy
the idea. How about this backwards approach

637
00:42:01.800 --> 00:42:06.880
if you will. You know,
the people in the Rise of Reluctant Dinnovator,

638
00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:09.519
like myself, they'd got themselves out
into the world. So you know,

639
00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:14.320
you're not going to find a third
world problem necessarily in Washington, DC

640
00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:17.079
or New York, right if you
if you're drawn to that kind of work,

641
00:42:17.119 --> 00:42:21.000
you need to go to a third
world or developing country. So I

642
00:42:21.000 --> 00:42:23.519
think the first lessons for me has
always been if you want to do something

643
00:42:23.559 --> 00:42:27.880
meaningful, you need to get yourself
out into the places where the problems are

644
00:42:28.119 --> 00:42:30.840
if you're into homelessness, or you're
troubled about homelessness, or you cry when

645
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:36.519
you see refugees fleeing areas and sleeping
in the streets, and go and work

646
00:42:36.559 --> 00:42:39.159
with homeless people, spend time in
homeless environments, right then that will that

647
00:42:39.199 --> 00:42:42.679
will give you some ideas, or
at least it may give you an idea

648
00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:45.079
of how you might be able to
contribute to a solution. But the key

649
00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:49.480
for me has always been and I
gave a talk in Munich about this is

650
00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:52.559
about paying attention and the title of
that talk or social change begins by paying

651
00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:58.280
attention, because nothing happens if you
don't pay attention. That's the very first

652
00:42:58.360 --> 00:43:01.320
step. And luckily paying attention is
not hard, right that no one should

653
00:43:01.360 --> 00:43:05.880
really have an excuse to not pay
attention. And I paid attention, and

654
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:08.880
all the people in the Reluctant Innovator
paid attention, and anybody who cares about

655
00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:15.440
the planet can take time to pay
attention. And from there you will find

656
00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:20.039
things that annoy you, trouble you, make you angry, and those are

657
00:43:20.039 --> 00:43:22.760
the things then that you need to
focus on, because you need to find

658
00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:24.480
something that will make you get up
every morning. You know, this is

659
00:43:24.519 --> 00:43:29.239
a life journey, not a job. I think the word job is completely

660
00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:32.159
wrong. When these things find you, it's a call, agreed. The

661
00:43:32.239 --> 00:43:36.559
other thing that you would talk about, which I completely agree with, is

662
00:43:36.599 --> 00:43:39.519
that you talk about going to go
find out on the front lines what the

663
00:43:39.559 --> 00:43:45.599
problem is, involving the local people
that it that it hurts, finding out

664
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:50.239
from their perspective what they need,
and then involving them in the solution,

665
00:43:50.360 --> 00:43:52.519
not just you know, packaging up
here. I brought you a solution.

666
00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:57.280
I'm coming over from the United States
here it is. That's just also really

667
00:43:57.320 --> 00:44:00.760
important to talk about. Yeah,
no, completely, And I you know,

668
00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:04.159
I always knew when I was traveling
in these places that I had the

669
00:44:04.280 --> 00:44:07.400
luxury of being able to get on
a plane home. You know, however

670
00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:10.519
much you try and immerse yourself in
these environments, you always have a choice

671
00:44:10.519 --> 00:44:15.159
that those people never have. They
can't escape what they're experiencing. That is,

672
00:44:15.199 --> 00:44:17.000
that is their life. And so
for me, if you think about

673
00:44:17.039 --> 00:44:21.519
impact and you think about how can
I possibly have the widest impacts? Can

674
00:44:21.639 --> 00:44:24.480
how can my efforts be multiplied?
The thing is you need to build an

675
00:44:24.559 --> 00:44:30.159
army, right, you need to
inspire and motivate and drive as many people

676
00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:34.039
as you can to action so that
when you go that work continues. You

677
00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:36.360
know, I always felt that was
frontline SMS. I thought, if I

678
00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:39.480
stop tomorrow, will that product continue
to have an impact? And the answer

679
00:44:39.519 --> 00:44:43.320
is yes. And I think that's
a question we should maybe all ask ourselves,

680
00:44:43.400 --> 00:44:46.880
if I stop tomorrow, will the
goodness continue? Will that positivity continue?

681
00:44:46.920 --> 00:44:50.559
And if it won't, then you're
probably doing it doing it the wrong

682
00:44:50.599 --> 00:44:53.360
way. But I think absolutely we
need to motivate, inspire, help and

683
00:44:53.400 --> 00:44:58.800
support the people that are best placed
to solve those problems. And that's not

684
00:44:58.840 --> 00:45:01.280
a white guy from the UK,
not in the context of what I was

685
00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:05.960
seeing. So we're getting close to
being out of time here. But I

686
00:45:05.960 --> 00:45:08.039
want to get two more things out
of you. First, since I'm so

687
00:45:08.199 --> 00:45:12.840
interested in helping people across the world
come on live like you have. You

688
00:45:12.920 --> 00:45:15.960
have come alive. You literally have
scratched and claud for this meaning and purpose

689
00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:19.039
and you did it. You found
a way to make a difference in the

690
00:45:19.079 --> 00:45:22.480
world. So my question to you, Ken is do you think we that's

691
00:45:22.679 --> 00:45:24.880
it's just a requirement. Do we
have to go to the wildlife scratching to

692
00:45:24.920 --> 00:45:30.599
get there. I don't think we
do. Some people find their calling straight

693
00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:32.880
away and I hate them for it. Well, not really, I don't

694
00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:36.719
hate them at all. But some
people find their thing, you know,

695
00:45:36.760 --> 00:45:38.960
the thing, very quickly. I
think that. I think you, if

696
00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:45.800
you're deeply committed to making change and
creating change and doing good, what separates

697
00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:49.559
you from other people is that you
continue looking and you don't give up.

698
00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:52.719
If you're fortunate enough to find it
early, then great because you waste don't

699
00:45:52.760 --> 00:45:57.239
waste time looking. I wasted years
and years looking. But I think what

700
00:45:57.360 --> 00:46:02.719
separates the real committed individuals is that
you do not just give up when you

701
00:46:02.719 --> 00:46:07.079
fail the first time. You get
yourself up, and you go again,

702
00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:09.039
and you get yourself up, and
you go again, and you never let

703
00:46:09.119 --> 00:46:12.440
go. And if at the end
you know, you're lying in bed and

704
00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:15.199
you take your last breath and you
think to yourself, you know, I

705
00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:20.039
never found it, but damn did
I try. I don't ever want to

706
00:46:20.039 --> 00:46:22.519
say I didn't try. I don't
want to ever say to my kids,

707
00:46:22.559 --> 00:46:24.760
I did not try to make the
world better for you, because that's the

708
00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:29.199
worst thing I think I could say
to them. Yeah, I completely agree

709
00:46:29.199 --> 00:46:32.159
with that, and I would you
know, knowing what I do about the

710
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:36.920
role of purpose and my purpose and
works in part because we don't know when

711
00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:39.639
we're leaving, We don't know what
the circumstances are, and so it gives

712
00:46:39.719 --> 00:46:43.559
us sort of an urgency to live
each day, which seems to me that

713
00:46:43.880 --> 00:46:47.519
just how you've really governed your life. So the worst thing we could do

714
00:46:47.559 --> 00:46:50.480
is get to the end and say, oh, I wish I would have

715
00:46:50.679 --> 00:46:52.920
Oh gosh, I wish I would
have gone after that. So much of

716
00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:57.480
what I'm doing is trying to motivate
and encourage and inspire people to go for

717
00:46:57.519 --> 00:47:00.800
the very life and reach for what
you've done, which is a big reason

718
00:47:00.840 --> 00:47:02.159
I wanted to have you on the
show was to showcase. Look, here's

719
00:47:02.199 --> 00:47:07.000
a living, breathing example of what
it looks like when you continue on you

720
00:47:07.079 --> 00:47:09.800
persessed, even when the going gets
really tough and you feel like you failed,

721
00:47:10.320 --> 00:47:14.639
you just keep going and your example, your story is so important in

722
00:47:14.679 --> 00:47:19.280
that way. Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. So here we are

723
00:47:19.280 --> 00:47:22.519
at the end already. You know, this show is listened to by people

724
00:47:22.559 --> 00:47:25.320
all over the world who really are
out to create workplaces where people actually do

725
00:47:25.360 --> 00:47:29.519
want to come to work, where
inspirational leaders lead them to their greatness,

726
00:47:29.519 --> 00:47:31.880
and we do business that betters the
world. So with that, what would

727
00:47:31.880 --> 00:47:37.119
you like to leave our listeners and
viewers with. I think for most people,

728
00:47:37.159 --> 00:47:39.760
I think the key is to pay
attention, immerse yourself in the places

729
00:47:39.760 --> 00:47:44.079
where the problems the trouble you are, and don't think you have to help

730
00:47:44.079 --> 00:47:46.159
a million people to do good.
If we all help just one person,

731
00:47:46.840 --> 00:47:50.840
we would solve the problems of the
world. So don't get obsessed with scale.

732
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:54.480
Just become obsessed to finding something that
switches you on and throw everything you

733
00:47:54.559 --> 00:47:59.039
have at that. I like that. In fact, do you have a

734
00:47:59.119 --> 00:48:02.800
quote in It's The Reluctant Innovator at
the very beginning about the importance of coming

735
00:48:02.800 --> 00:48:07.039
alive. What the world needs is
for more people to come alive. Absolutely,

736
00:48:07.239 --> 00:48:13.039
And that's exactly why my next anthology
of men that I'm curating stories collecting

737
00:48:13.039 --> 00:48:15.920
from men across the world about how
they've discovered their purpose, is called Alive

738
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:20.280
from the Core. So completely agree
with that, Ken, and I'm so

739
00:48:20.360 --> 00:48:22.000
happy to cross paths with you.
You know that you can't escape from me

740
00:48:22.039 --> 00:48:25.039
now right. You know I'm on
your trail and I you know you're You're

741
00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:29.639
in my zone, so I'm so
happy to have you on, know you

742
00:48:29.719 --> 00:48:31.239
and share you with our listeners and
viewers. Thank you so much for being

743
00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:36.840
on. Thank you very much listeners
and viewers. If you want to learn

744
00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:38.800
more about Ken Banks and the work
he does at Yodi, you can go

745
00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:44.079
to yodi dot com forward slash Social
Purpose. That's how you can find out

746
00:48:44.079 --> 00:48:46.880
about his current work today, and
you can still also access his personal site,

747
00:48:47.320 --> 00:48:52.000
which speaks to his journey prior to
joining Yodi by visiting the site Kowanja

748
00:48:52.079 --> 00:48:54.480
dot net. I'm sure I'm saying
that wrong, but let me let me

749
00:48:54.840 --> 00:49:00.199
let me spell it for you.
It's k i w a n j net.

750
00:49:01.199 --> 00:49:05.440
And thanks again to our partnering sponsor
work Proud, which helps companies build

751
00:49:05.480 --> 00:49:08.960
a platform where your workforce receives meaningful
feedback and thanks for the work from people

752
00:49:09.239 --> 00:49:13.360
they work with across the company.
Last week, if you missed the live

753
00:49:13.400 --> 00:49:15.519
show, you can always catch a
we Reported podcast. We're on there with

754
00:49:15.599 --> 00:49:20.920
Tim Jones aka the Grow Good Guy, talking about the work he does helping

755
00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:24.239
companies transition to B CORP status like
Ken was talking about. Next week,

756
00:49:24.280 --> 00:49:29.239
we'll be on the air with Dana
menden Hall talking about her perspective on redefining

757
00:49:29.320 --> 00:49:34.679
no and transforming failure and rejection into
unimaginable success and boundless opportunities. See you

758
00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:37.360
there, Remember that works at least
or their my life. So let's work

759
00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:45.639
on purpose. We hope you've enjoyed
this week's program. Be sure to tune

760
00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:51.400
in too. Working on Purpose featuring
your host, doctor Elise Cortees each week

761
00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:55.719
on the Voice America Empowerment Channel.
Together, we'll create a world where business

762
00:49:55.760 --> 00:50:02.840
operates conscientiously, leadership inspired, impassioned
performance, and employees are fulfilled in work

763
00:50:02.840 --> 00:50:07.880
that provides the meaning and purpose they
crave. See you there, Let's work

764
00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:08.559
on purpose.