June 9, 2026

The Shattering Within: Facing the Man in the Mirror to Finally Come Home

The Shattering Within: Facing the Man in the Mirror to Finally Come Home
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Men are suffering—often in silence and alone. The cost is devastating. What happens when a man can no longer outrun himself? Every 13 minutes, a man takes his own life by suicide. For many men, midlife isn’t a crisis—it’s a reckoning. A shattering of identity, expectations, and the quiet loneliness of performing a life that no longer feels true. In a world that still discourages emotional honesty, Dr. Baruch HaLevi offers something rare: a path back to self through six questions.

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The topics and opinions express in the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests and not

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W FOURCY Radio.

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What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the

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answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose

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at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their

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lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization

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that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their

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highest potential. Business can be such a force for good

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in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide

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guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we

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all want working on Purpose. Now, here's your host, doctor

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Elise Cortez.

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Welcome back to the Working and Purpose Program, which has

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been brought to you with passion and prize since February

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of twenty fifteen. Thanks for us tuning in this week.

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Great to have you. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes.

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Most leaders are sitting on untapped human energy, and I

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help them unlock it. I'm an organizational psychologist, logo therapist,

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workforce advisor and the founder of the Gusto Now movement.

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But the title I live by is really much simpler.

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I traffic and energy, not the surfle suble motivation or

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another engagement initiative, but the deeper force what I call Gusto,

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the life force for performance that drives commitment, perseverance, and

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genuine ownership of a shared a mission in the clients

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we serve. You can learn more about us on how

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we can work together at Gusto dashnow dot com or

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visit my personal site at least Coortes dot com for

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information on speaking in my books. Today we have with

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us doctor Rabbi barhuk Bi Hailevi. He is a trained logotherapist,

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men's coach, ideogram teacher, and spiritual guide who helps men

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rediscover who they are, why they're here, and how to

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live at face with doctorates and counseling and divinity and

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over two decades of experience guiding people through grief, loss

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and transformation. Doctor Haleve bridges psychology, spirituality, and coaching through

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Victor Frankel's meaning centered approach. He's the author of Spark Seekers,

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Mourning with Meaning, and The Guy in the Glass. Six

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Questions to See the Man You are you Are Meant

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to Be, and he hosts the podcast thirteen Minutes Why

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every Man Needs a Why. Through his men's coaching and

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men's peer groups, he helps men rise into purpose, connection,

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and authentic brotherhood. We'll be talking today about the points

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from his book The Guy in the Glass and specifically

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address the problems men face with their mental health. Cover

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off on the six questions from the book, and then

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hear about his own Dark Knight in the Woods story

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that radically changed him in the direction of his life.

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He joinses from Denver doctor BARUKHLEVI, welcome back to working

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on purpose.

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He doctor lees, thanks for having me.

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It's always an honor, absolutely, And let me first just

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celebrate this beautiful thing you brought into the world. You know,

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I've talked about this before. I've had children. You have not.

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This is harder, harder to bring this into the world

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than it is a child, So way to go be,

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and listeners and viewers, you'll get to know that he

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has a very big, beautiful, fancy name. But those of

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us who know him and love him just call him

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Be and you will too. So now that we've given

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some levity to the show, b let's get into the

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meat of this. And I was shocked to learn this

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stat from you and your book that every thirteen minutes

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a man takes his life by suicide. And so you

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host that podcast called thirteen Minute Mission Why every Man

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needs a Why to address this very tragy And of course,

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so when you think about that in an hour, more

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than four men have perished.

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Yeah, by the time this episode closes, I guess that

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means three men will have chosen to die by suicide.

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And I have a simple mission at Lease that is

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to push back the clock one minute. That means twenty

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eight hundred and eighty eight men this year alone will

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choose life if we can help them. As our teacher

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mentor Victor Frankel says, discover and live there. Why a

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man who has a why does not choose to leave

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this world. That's my mission called the thirteen minute Mission,

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and that's what we're doing.

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Well. Of course you are uniquely qualified. There's a reason

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you are so riveted on this subject of men's suicide

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and are uniquely equipped to address it. I knew about

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your father's suicide when he was sixty and you were

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thirty four, and the way you describe it in the

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book is so incredibly powerful and really puts us into

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that seat. And then, of course your grandmother took her

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own life some twenty years before before that. Amazing to

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draw from and to be riveted by.

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Yeah, I do believe God gives us the curriculum that

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we need, not what we want. And I was put

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in this life, as Victor Frankel says, transform that tragedy

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into other people's triumph. And didn't want the curriculum, but

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I got it, and so here we are. I wrote

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a book on really kind of documenting it and laying

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out a plan of how we're going to efectuate this

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mission and not put an end of suicide, but certainly

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defy the clock.

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You know, one thing I want to sell it about

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about you, As I mentioned to you, and I've been

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friends for several years, and we met each other because

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we did our local philosophy Diplomats, which is a master's

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level degree. Together, that's how we met some I think

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it was six seven years ago, But I learned a

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lot more about you in this book. I love the

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fact that you call yourself a recovering rabbi and a

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spiritual mutt, and I love that you can draw on

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the wisdom of all these different spiritual traditions and what

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you do and you're wicked, funny be Oh my god,

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I was laughing and I was crying, and I was

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just like, but then I was so impressed that you

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have really done something well. One thing that I also

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love about your book is that it's just piersonally raw.

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It's achingly real, which is you down to the core.

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But then you do this beautiful thing be listeners and viewers.

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Is why you got to pick up the book. You

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do this thing where you're weaving together a parable, a

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guide book, and a memoir all into one powerful experience.

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And I was really blown back by how clever this

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is and how powerflo it is.

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I'm so glad you appreciated. A couple of my good

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friends said it's like Doctor SEUs for grown ups. Yeah,

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they said it as eloquently as you but you know, look,

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I like a paradox. And it opens up with a

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pretty gruesome scene of my father taking his life and

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it was necessary to do that, And it also juxtaposes

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that against Victor Frankel's survival out of the Holocaust, and

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so that I can't think of two heavier topics in

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the Holocaust and suicide. Oh, this is going to be

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a fun book, and so I juxtaposed it with a

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I think a pretty fun ride. The guy walks into

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a bar, a lot of plant medicine kind of experience

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in there, not sure what's real what's not. But I

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really wanted to have a humorous light as well as

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deep and painful.

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Well, so let's just quickly introduce a little bit of it.

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So I really appreciate that, you know. Well, let's also say,

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and again, you know, your work with men, your work

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coaching men, and you know men's peer groups, etceter are

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so so powerful being able to surface this really painful

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stuff in life. The book starts though, because you've had

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You've had an argument with your wife and she's like,

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go figure your shit out, and so she takes the

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kids on the trip, and you had you're going to

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go you know, camping, but you decide to stop by

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the bar and the bar maid Shama if I'm saying

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her name right, you do. She's really, you know, a

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strong catalyst in this and she's a central figure and

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how she serves up these questions and how she curates

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the conversations who you know and the men that flow

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through the door to echo them or to serve them

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as well. So I just want to situate that for

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our listeners and viewers. You know, it's really expert how

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you weave that all through.

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Well, thank you. I just draw upon wisdom traditions, whether

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it's logo therapy or kabbo law or other. As you said,

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I'm a spiritual mud so I got a lot of traditions,

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great traditions that have come before me. And so this

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is just a spiritual principle. You know. She represents the

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divine feminine and the men that I to work with

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at midlife are ready to embrace their divine feminine to

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learn from it. And so it's a guy at midlife

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and it's almost like she's like the queen bee and

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they're sort of hovering around the hive and she's calling

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the shots but letting them find their way, and I

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just really do believe it's a spiritual principle that makes

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that work.

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Thank you for saying that. I didn't catch that she

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was the divine, feminine energy. I just saw her as

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kind of a catalyst, sort of a you know, a

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wise sort of sage. So I love that that nuance

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in there too. Amazing.

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Yeah, I had to really decide what this book wasn't

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because I was trying to be all things to everybody.

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That's why it took me so long. You know, first

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it was memoir. Next it was a fictional narrative, and

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next it was a teaching on the Enneagram Loco Therapy handbook.

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And the editor said, like, dude, you got to kind

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of consolidate it, and so I made some choices and

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some of it becomes implicit. I'll give you one little

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sort of behind the scenes. There's six chapters. There's six

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kind of different types of men that show up in

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each chapter, and they're based on the aneagram, which is

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another love of mine, and so each one represents an aneagram,

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which is that for your listener, it's kind of like

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a personality roadmap. And so they're the six fundamental Lisually

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nine any gram types, but I boiled it down to six,

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and so there's lots of hidden motifs and fun things

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behind there. And you know, i'd like to think that

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it's readable.

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Now I didn't catch that either, And now I have

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to go back committed again and find that because you know,

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I'm an anagram freak as well. I'm a seven enthusiast.

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You're an eighth the challenger. So now I got to

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go back and read it again. Happy to do that. Thanks.

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After three, I think is the anagram seven, but you'll

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figure it out.

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Okay, thanks for the little tip. Okay, So I thought

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it was profound that your grandfather gave you the Guy

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in the and the Glass poem, and you know, obviously

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the impact on you is incredible. I had never encountered

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that poem before, and I don't know that we need

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to read the whole thing, but if you want to

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situate a little bit about what the poem is about

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and why it was so profoundly impactful for you.

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Yeah. It was written in nineteen thirty four by a

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man named Dale Wimbrough, and he was writing it in

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response to a young reader who was writing into the

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American Mercury magazine. He was struggling with a moral business dilemma,

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and this was poem was of the response to the

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young reader, and it's all about going to the mirror,

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the guy in the glass, and it's written in nineteen

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thirty four language, so it's a little archaic, but I

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think it to me it makes them meaningful, kind of

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reminds me of my grandfather, kind of reeks of grandfatherly wisdom,

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and so it was appropriate. My grandfather gave it to

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me later because I was that young man in my

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life and he saw me going off sort of the

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moral crossing moral lines or you know, just the twenty

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somethingter version of me. He gave me this poem. And

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I also think he watched my dad, that was his

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son in law, very much going off the rails. And

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this is a poem about going to the mirror. And

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at the end of the day, if you don't like,

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if you don't respect the guy or the gal staring

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back from the glass, then you have nothing. And the

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men that I work with, in particular, have spent their

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entire life learning to be whatever everybody else wants them

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to be and learning to climb the ladders of success

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as it says, to find his leaning against the wrong wall.

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And they don't know. They don't respect the guy in

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the glass. And so you have nothing if you get

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if you don't have him.

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And I appreciate how you share in the book. I

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forget which character it is that can't actually look into

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the mirror. Can't can't look into the mirror. It's not

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ready to see himself.

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It's not actually a character. It's about twenty percent of

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the men that I give this assignment to do this

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I call mirror work or mirror moments. I tell them

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to go to the mirror and look at themselves and

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not like, you know, just comb your hair, but to yeah,

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I mean that was a joke, but it was to

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look yourself in the eyes, to stare. And so many men,

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maybe women too, I don't know. I haven't done it

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with them, can't do it. They won't do it. It's

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heartbreaking to hear somebody can't look at themselves in the eyes.

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That's a true, it's a reality.

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There was just so much in there. As I told you,

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I've a couple of dear male friends that I've already

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got copies of the book for because there's so much

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in there that I know they'll really appreciate on their

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own journey of learning and growing and trying to underunderstand

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themselves and accept themselves and celebrate themselves. So, and you know,

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what's what I appreciate to about this work be is

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that you know, when we help more men heal, everybody

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needs to heal. There's not a single human walking the

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planet that isn't walking wounded. And when we help more

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men heal, we help so much of the world get

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better simultaneously. And I just really appreciate that work.

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Yeah, I've gotten challenged a bit by my female audience

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or friends or family who so why did you not

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write it for women? I say, I did write it

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for women because you have a father's son, husband, brother, colleague, boss, employee,

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and better men as you just describe, make a better world.

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I mean, if you look at a good percentage of

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our problems, you know, I don't think it's a stretch

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to say involve a Y chromosome. So if we can

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help those with the Y chromosome, we help those with

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x X chromosome too, one.

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Hundred percent, maybe one thousand percent. I also noticed I've

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found I got more just so you know, b I

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got some more insight even into some of the men

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in my life that are I've been close to, and

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got oh, I better understand those choices and some of

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those reactions, which is where I want to go to next.

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You and I both being Victor Frankel fans from our

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that's the creator of you know, the logo logo philosophy,

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logo therapy for listeners of viewers if you don't know that.

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But of course he warns that when reaction becomes a

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way of life, freedom fades. So when we when we're

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driving our lives and we start to be driven by emotion, fear,

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et cetera, now we lose all this choice in this freedom.

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And so I appreciate again that you're talking about how

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we can free ourselves from what you and I think

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doctor Victor Franko called the inner concentration camp. And if

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that doesn't just help you really relate to that world,

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I can relate to that world.

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Well, I don't use the term lightly. I have written

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all over my body in tattoos family members' numbers who

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were murdered in the Holocaust. So it's personal to me.

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I am a rabbi and I'm a student of Victor Frankels.

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I wear his number one one nine, one zero four

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on my arm, and so I don't use that term

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lightly because I've been challenged on it before. You know,

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that's reserved for the special unique. No, it's not. Because

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my father was in a concentration camp. How do I know?

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Because he sentenced himself to death. And if that's not

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a concentration camp, then I don't know what we're talking about.

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And his world became riddled with self accusation and hatred

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and condemnation, and sounds very similar like a Holocaust, like

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a Nazi concentration camp, and to a person in suffering,

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there's no distinction, and so I take it very seriously,

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and my job is really to help people break out

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of those concentration camps.

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I don't know about to be but one of the

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reasons that I am so drawn to logotherapy love for

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philosophy is that to me, it's empowering, right, And so

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you talk about it in your book that you know,

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to react as ordinary, to respond, to react as ordinary,

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to respond that's different is extraordinary, and it is the

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mark of the man who has met his own soul

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and refused to bow before circumstance. Frank will call this

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the defiant power of the human spirit, the capacity to

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face soul crushing pain and still draw a line in

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the sand, declaring, I will choose who I become.

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Amen, sister.

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So powerful.

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All of Victor Frankel's work, in my humble opinion and

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certainly my life'losophy comes down to his famous statement, between

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stimulus and response, there is a space, and in that

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space lies our power to choose our response, and in

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our response lies our growth and our freedom. So between

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stimulus things happening, I will curse here, it's your show

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in us reacting. There's a space and that space. The

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question is what kind of space have we cultivated that space?

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Do we are we're living in an expanse of life

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or we're living in that constriction, that narrowness of thinking,

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of feeling, of being in the world. And so when

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a man, when a person expands that space, they don't react,

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they start choosing their response. It's simple formula. It's not

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easy to do, but that's it.

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That's right, one hundred percent.

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Get it.

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Yeah, And I appreciate that and continue to practice it myself.

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So it's it's a lifelong deal. Let's grab our first break.

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I'm your host, doctor Release Cortes. We've bru on the

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air with doctor Rabbi baruk Bi ha Levi, who is

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a trained logo therapist, men's coach, endeaogram teacher, and spiritual

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guide who helps men rediscover who they are, why they're here,

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and how to live it fully. We've been talking about

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the real issue, the problem here of men's mental health

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and just how tragic it can it can unfold. After

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the break, we're going to get into these six magical

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questions that Be talks about in his book. We'll be

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right back.

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Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

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and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies

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visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

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leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

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commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

355
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a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her

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00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:34.599
at Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

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your employees working on purpose. This is working on purpose

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with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or

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00:17:46.839 --> 00:17:49.599
to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to

360
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Elise Alise at Elisecortes dot com. Now back to Working

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on Purpose.

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Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to Working

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on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as I

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am dedicated to helping create a world where organizations thrive

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because people thrive and are led by inspirational leaders that

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help them find and contribute their greatness, and we do

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business that betters the world. I keep researching and writing

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my own books, so one of my latest came out,

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The Great Revitalization, How activating meaning and purpose can radically

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enliven your business. And I order to help leaders understand

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today's discerning workforce and what do they want and need

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from you to be able to give their best, and

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then I provide you twenty two best practices to equip

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that in your leadership and your culture. You can find

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my books on Amazon or Atlas Cortes dot com if

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you are just now joining us. My guest is doctor

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Rabbi baruk Bi Halevi. He's the author of Spark Seekers,

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Mourning and Meaning, and the one we're talking about today,

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The Guy in the Glass. Six Questions to see the

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man you could be. He also hosts the podcast thirteen

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Minutes Why every Man Needs a Why. So, before we

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get into the questions B, I think it's important send

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so much of the audience that you serve are mid

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in the midlife part of of their lives. I appreciate

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very much and can relate myself that you talk about

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how midlife isn't a crisis. It's a reckoning. It's a

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shattering of identity, expectations and the quiet loneliness of performing

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a life that no longer feels real or true.

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Yeah, I believe deeply you know you're not at midlife

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When you get to be my age alis you'll know

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that invitation. I really think we live in a youth

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obsessed culture. I love this midlife juncture. I'm probably north

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of midlife. People always say midlife it depends how long

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you live, but like, let's take the bell curve the

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average you know, to me, it's like a forty to

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sixty space in there reimagining who are we? You have

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enough life experience, you have enough wins and losses, and

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you start to see through all the bs and if

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you treat it as a reckoning and as an invitation.

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I think it becomes the most exciting time in life.

401
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:03.519
It certainly was for me. I wouldn't say it was fun.

402
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It was certainly very messy and very chaotic, but boy,

403
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what was what's emerged on the on the other side

404
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and continues to unfold is incredibly powerful.

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I definitely wouldn't use the word fun, and I definitely

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wouldn't wish it upon anybody. But when you're in it again, excitement, aliveness,

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vitality totally. That's where meaning is found on you know,

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the mountaintops and in the valleys, and it's all there

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in the midlife juncture.

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Chewiness for sure, man, that's that's for sure. Okay, So

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what I would love to do is just we won't

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be able to treat all of these questions, and we

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shouldn't because that's the purpose of the book and the

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usefulness of the book. But I would like to at

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least introduce the six if we can. And what I

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appreciate it is. I first, when I first cracked up

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on your book with the table of contents and I

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saw the questions, I went, those are those are wait

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a minute, those are standard questions? What is he doing?

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I know? Be better than this. There must be more

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to it. So the first question is what's your name?

422
00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:02.319
I'm just going to They're not standard question they're bar questions.

423
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They pick questions, Yeah, okay, bar questions.

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Yeah.

425
00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:07.960
They're everyday shallow conversations.

426
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Shallow, the worst of the worst. Ye, what's your name?

427
00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:12.839
What do you do? Come here? Off? And are you single?

428
00:21:13.160 --> 00:21:15.839
What's your number? How you getting home? And it does

429
00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:19.440
sound like a pickup line. And the previous incarnation of

430
00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:21.519
this man at the bar, which is me, it's every man,

431
00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:26.799
it's every person that these every questions are not what

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00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:29.720
they seem. Right, nothing is what it seems, And if

433
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you want to go deeper, you can go deeper. And

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00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:34.599
that's what this guy at the bar is finally doing

435
00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:36.759
in his life. You know, his wife says, don't come back.

436
00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:38.799
My wife said, don't come back to you figure your

437
00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:42.000
shit out. That part is true pretty much every day

438
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:45.640
when I go off to the office. You know, you

439
00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:49.559
can take it seemingly ordinary and it becomes extraordinary. And

440
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that's what I love about it. And I also love

441
00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:54.960
that these are ancient wisdom teachings. You know, I draw

442
00:21:55.000 --> 00:21:59.119
a lot from my religion of birth of a law

443
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of Judaism, And you know, what's your name? Is the

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first question that's asked by Moses of God. You know

445
00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:09.319
what's your name? It's literally it's like a pickup line.

446
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What are you kidding me? This is a pickup line. No,

447
00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:15.359
it's actually a necessary starting point if you want intimacy

448
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with somebody, to know their name. And of course it's

449
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not the name tag, it's not the name on the screen.

450
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And we dig into that in the chapter.

451
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And I think, if I have this right, I think

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one of the men that you would talk about in

453
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the book who you know? I think he's one of

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the men that his father tells him how he's worthless

455
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all the time, and just you know what, a what's

456
00:22:35.240 --> 00:22:37.200
his you know, what's his value? Kind of thing? And

457
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:38.880
a lot of us get that, and certainly a lot

458
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of men get that too. And if I have this right,

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be he in his work with you and in the

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book he decides and discovers that his name is I

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am worthy? Is that right?

462
00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:49.160
Yeah?

463
00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:51.319
And it comes from the you know what Moses or

464
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:53.839
what God's response to Moses? What is God going to say?

465
00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:54.480
Like g O D.

466
00:22:54.680 --> 00:22:56.880
It doesn't exist in the Bible. There's Hebrew and it

467
00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:00.480
says a shareh, which means I am that I am.

468
00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:03.759
And so that principle is every time, as a human

469
00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:06.440
being we say I am and we fill in the blank,

470
00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:12.000
we're making ourselves static, stuck, limited, and more often than not,

471
00:23:12.359 --> 00:23:18.400
they're not pretty descriptions, they're not liberating ideas. Right, I'm stupid.

472
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:20.799
I can't do that. I am this, I am that.

473
00:23:21.319 --> 00:23:24.839
And so the idea is, can we start expanding our

474
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:29.200
consciousness our identity? And that is a name beyond just

475
00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:31.680
you know, a little name tag mm hmm.

476
00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:34.759
Well, as an identity researcher, you know that you're speaking

477
00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:37.720
my love language. So I really really appreciate the profundity

478
00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:39.079
of that and the work that I've gotten to do

479
00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:42.680
help to help people expand their sense of identity and

480
00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:46.559
reject or remove some of those labels that they have

481
00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:50.119
spent their whole lives with that are so limiting and demeaning.

482
00:23:50.200 --> 00:23:52.720
And almost always I say, you know, people, what's your

483
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:54.759
name and they tell me their first name. I say

484
00:23:54.759 --> 00:23:56.759
that's your whole name, and they're like, yeah, that's it.

485
00:23:56.920 --> 00:23:58.000
Do you have a middle name, do you have a

486
00:23:58.079 --> 00:23:59.519
last name, do you have a maiden name? Do you

487
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:02.039
have title? Do your kids call you by your first name?

488
00:24:02.119 --> 00:24:04.279
Like all of a sudden, you realize we have so

489
00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:08.039
many pieces of our identity and we've just boiled it

490
00:24:08.079 --> 00:24:10.759
down to a little you know, fill in the blank.

491
00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:15.079
And there's so much more there to that person, just

492
00:24:15.160 --> 00:24:17.720
like there isn't a second question. The second question is

493
00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:18.519
what do you do?

494
00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:22.200
This one's an interesting one because I've noticed it more

495
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:24.960
and men. Maybe it's changed a bit, but I still

496
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:28.680
think it's a very male dominated loaded question. What's your name?

497
00:24:28.759 --> 00:24:30.759
That's always the first question at a barbecue or a

498
00:24:30.759 --> 00:24:33.200
cocktail party, and then the next question, at least for men,

499
00:24:33.319 --> 00:24:36.480
is what do you do? And they always say, I'm

500
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:38.839
a lawyer, I'm a doctor, I'm a teacher, I'm a whatever.

501
00:24:39.400 --> 00:24:41.839
I'll say to them now because I just love disrupting

502
00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:45.079
cocktail parties. I didn't ask you how to make money?

503
00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:46.920
What do you do? And they're just like, You're like,

504
00:24:46.960 --> 00:24:50.000
what are you on? What are you talking about? You're

505
00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:52.759
a father, you're a husband, you're a son, you're a gardener,

506
00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:56.240
you're a poet, you're a basketball player. I didn't ask

507
00:24:56.279 --> 00:24:59.920
you how you pay the bills. But almost invariably particular

508
00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:02.640
men tell me how they make money.

509
00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:07.079
That is a problem, you know. Years ago, B, I

510
00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:09.240
stumbled up honesty. And part of it came because I

511
00:25:09.240 --> 00:25:11.079
live here in Dallas, Texas, and a lot of people,

512
00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:15.079
especially women, don't necessarily pursue work throughout their whole entire life.

513
00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:17.279
So it became awkward to ask what do you do

514
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:21.240
for both men and women, but certainly women. So I

515
00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:23.640
devise the question of what do you pour yourself into

516
00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:26.720
that lights you up? And I like that. Then people

517
00:25:26.759 --> 00:25:28.559
can say sometimes they say that they love the work,

518
00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:31.200
but very often they're telling me about, you know, the

519
00:25:31.559 --> 00:25:34.240
canvas of their lives, that all these things that matter

520
00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:35.920
to them, that are a part of them.

521
00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:38.720
And that's where the question we needed to go. I

522
00:25:38.799 --> 00:25:40.480
just took it at sort of the base level, and

523
00:25:40.519 --> 00:25:42.480
you raised it up. And that's the whole point, right,

524
00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:45.440
Can we raise our conversations up to, you know, from

525
00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:46.960
the ordinary to the extraordinary?

526
00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:50.559
And that's what one of the many reasons I've always

527
00:25:50.559 --> 00:25:53.519
loved you be because you live on that beautiful level

528
00:25:53.559 --> 00:25:56.640
that is real and deep and chewy. And this is

529
00:25:56.680 --> 00:26:00.519
what the world needs, my friend. So just need more, B.

530
00:26:01.400 --> 00:26:04.440
Thank you. Okay, So next question, and this cracks me

531
00:26:04.519 --> 00:26:06.400
up to you know, you're in the bar? What brings

532
00:26:06.440 --> 00:26:07.920
you here? Right?

533
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:11.559
Yeah? It starts in the chapter to come here often?

534
00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:14.599
But then I, you know, translate that pretty quickly into

535
00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:17.759
you know what brings you here? And then it of

536
00:26:17.799 --> 00:26:21.200
course takes you into a deeper not hear the bar here,

537
00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:24.599
into this life, which takes us into, of course, our

538
00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:28.319
beloved teacher Victor Frankel's life thesis. Those who have a

539
00:26:28.359 --> 00:26:32.200
why to live can bear almost anyhow. And you don't

540
00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:35.039
know how many times I ask guys, what's your why?

541
00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:38.799
And they look at me like, what do you mean?

542
00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:42.319
And then they start scrambling and they start grabbing basically

543
00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:45.039
Hallmark cards from the Hallmark store in their mind and

544
00:26:45.079 --> 00:26:47.119
they start reading them off about you know, dad and

545
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:50.720
a son and a husband and bs like what's your why?

546
00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:52.759
What drives you? What lights you up? And you want

547
00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:55.799
to pour yourself into, like you said, And so few

548
00:26:55.839 --> 00:26:58.640
people they know it for their business, they know it

549
00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:01.000
for their profession or their religion. They don't know it

550
00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:02.119
for their life purpose.

551
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:05.599
You know, one of the things that I thought was

552
00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:10.279
so powerful is in that chapter you feature Aaron and

553
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:14.359
he's so angry because his loved wife, Emily has died,

554
00:27:14.440 --> 00:27:18.279
and so you talk about how he was able to

555
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:21.200
take all of that anger, that of her leaving and

556
00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:24.799
feeling helpless and so sad, into into really more of

557
00:27:24.839 --> 00:27:26.720
a mission to help other people going through similar things.

558
00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:29.079
He found himself coming back to the same hospital that

559
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:31.759
he'd gone to to visit her and was helping the

560
00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:34.599
people that were also visiting their loved ones. And I

561
00:27:34.640 --> 00:27:37.839
thought that was a really powerful depiction of just where

562
00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:39.559
purpose can come from.

563
00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:42.119
Yeah, one of the things I wanted to accomplish in

564
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:44.519
this book and in my work is to help the

565
00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:49.440
world better understand men in particular, and that means all

566
00:27:49.519 --> 00:27:53.200
of them, not just the pretty parts, right, not just

567
00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:56.160
the pleasing parts, not just the socially acceptable parts. You know,

568
00:27:56.200 --> 00:27:58.920
in our society you say somebody is a nice guy,

569
00:27:58.920 --> 00:28:03.640
and it's a compliment. Right, It's not a compliment. It

570
00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:07.839
can be very hurtful. And being angry is not a

571
00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:11.559
pejorative term. Because Martin Luther King was angry, and Nelson

572
00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:14.200
Mandela was angry, and Winston Churchill were anger. Now they

573
00:28:14.359 --> 00:28:17.640
learned how to harness their anger and you use it

574
00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:20.960
on purpose. And I meet so many men who have

575
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:24.279
been made to feel or have felt bad, less than

576
00:28:24.359 --> 00:28:27.880
wrong for something like anger, No, what do you do

577
00:28:28.039 --> 00:28:29.519
with it that determines demand?

578
00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:32.359
Well, I can tell you I've gotten a lot of

579
00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:35.759
shit done in my life on anger. I really have

580
00:28:36.680 --> 00:28:38.960
so because it's energy, right, All of our emotions are

581
00:28:39.079 --> 00:28:41.359
energy in motion. And if we can learn what they're

582
00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:43.920
trying to tell us, what is it they're communicating to us,

583
00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:46.319
then we can do something with that in a more productive,

584
00:28:46.839 --> 00:28:47.839
effective fashion.

585
00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:52.039
Yeah, you know, reacting is never good, and so if

586
00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:55.000
you're reacting from anger, no, But if you're responding from

587
00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:58.720
anger right to bring justice coming from a place of

588
00:28:58.839 --> 00:29:02.720
harnessed anger. Yes, Martin Luther King didn't, you know, make

589
00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:05.720
his point by getting up there and being a nice guy. Right,

590
00:29:05.880 --> 00:29:08.279
He had a dream and it was fiery and he

591
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:11.119
was channeled and it moved the world.

592
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:15.400
Right right right? Amen? Okay, so let's grab number four

593
00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:17.400
here before we grab our next break here. So the

594
00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:19.920
next question which cracks me up just thinking about this.

595
00:29:19.960 --> 00:29:21.519
You're in a bar and you would ask somebody are

596
00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:22.000
you single?

597
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:26.920
Are you being single? And the answer is yes or no?

598
00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:30.319
But the truth is it's never no, right because we're

599
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:33.680
only thinking about dating apps and we're only thinking, excuse

600
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:38.119
me from a shallow perspective, but it maybe my profile

601
00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:40.640
has been married for twenty seven years. But I have

602
00:29:40.759 --> 00:29:43.839
my kids, I have my friends, I have my community.

603
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:47.720
And that's the point helping men people in general, men

604
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:50.400
and women, especially midlife. And this has come up a

605
00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:52.319
lot when I counsel people who have gone through divorce,

606
00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:56.599
who are now single, and we have to really challenge

607
00:29:56.599 --> 00:30:01.119
that who are you in relationship with goes far beyond

608
00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:03.000
just you know, a marital status.

609
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:07.039
I absolutely love and from all the years I've known you,

610
00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:09.920
I love that you really helped me understand the idea

611
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:14.319
of answering the question who do you belong to? So powerful?

612
00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:17.279
Yeah, you know one of the challenges I see. I

613
00:30:17.319 --> 00:30:21.880
live in Denver Boulder area and it's pretty hippy dippy

614
00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:25.079
spiritual out here, and there is a lot of who

615
00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:28.279
am I kind of conversations and searching for it, and

616
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:30.200
I do see the limits of that. You know, Victor

617
00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:32.480
Frankel said, if you really want to know who you are,

618
00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:36.480
figure out who you serve self transcendence. So it's not

619
00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:38.279
who am I, it's whose am I?

620
00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:42.920
And I think that is such a powerful reframe because

621
00:30:42.920 --> 00:30:44.440
a lot of people. You know, there's a we have

622
00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:46.440
a loneliness epidemic, as you well know, we have a

623
00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:49.960
depression epidemic. And when you can start to see one,

624
00:30:50.200 --> 00:30:52.839
there are so many people who you do belong to

625
00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:56.279
who so there's plural And two to your other point,

626
00:30:56.759 --> 00:30:58.799
when you just take a little bit of time, one

627
00:30:58.839 --> 00:31:01.240
moment to go and help some in something small, it

628
00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:03.920
could be something very small, suddenly you're not focused on

629
00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:06.720
how you feel or feeling alone. You're part of something

630
00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:07.279
bigger than.

631
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:11.799
Yourself, especially men, especially a midlife who have only defined

632
00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:16.960
relationship intimacy with a significant other, a partner. And you know,

633
00:31:17.039 --> 00:31:20.799
I'm very passionate about bringing men to true intimacy. Wayne

634
00:31:20.839 --> 00:31:24.599
Dyer teaches into me c to see and to be seen?

635
00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:28.240
Can you be see by another man in a platonic

636
00:31:28.400 --> 00:31:31.880
loving relationship? Can you say I love you? Can you

637
00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:34.559
have that connection that saves lives?

638
00:31:35.559 --> 00:31:38.079
And just quickly to celebrate that you know, of course

639
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:40.880
you know. Your forward is written by doctor Dan Frantz Friends,

640
00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:43.319
who is a dear friend of both of ours, and

641
00:31:43.359 --> 00:31:46.119
even just the way he writes his forward, listeners and

642
00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:49.519
viewers is a direct expression of the love that be

643
00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:52.440
and Dan have for each other as brothers, and that's

644
00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:54.799
what I think is so beautiful. And your book opens

645
00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:57.839
with something that many men have probably never experienced.

646
00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:01.319
Yeah, Dan and I are running men's peer groups and

647
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:05.799
it's teaching men how to basically be in intimate relationships

648
00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:08.519
from this deeper soul level and to see and to

649
00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:11.720
be seen. I know we got a break, but only

650
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:14.960
two common threads I know in suicide is number one

651
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:20.119
loneliness and number two meaninglessness, and that issue solves both

652
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:21.880
of them.

653
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:24.160
Indeed, let's let our listeners and viewers think about that

654
00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:26.640
as we grab our last break. I'm your host, Doctor

655
00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:29.680
Relis Cortes. We've got on the era of doctor Rabbi

656
00:32:29.720 --> 00:32:33.079
Baru b. Halevi. He is a trained loco therapist, men's coach,

657
00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:36.720
enneagram teacher, and spiritual guide who helps rediscover who they are,

658
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:39.359
why they're here, and how to live it fully. We've

659
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:42.160
been talking about some of the four so far of

660
00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:44.960
the questions he talks about in his book. After the break,

661
00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:47.279
we're going to talk about the remaining too, and then

662
00:32:47.319 --> 00:32:51.200
hear about his own story of his Dark Knight in

663
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:51.680
the woods.

664
00:32:51.799 --> 00:33:09.640
We'll be right back, Doctor Elise Cortes is a management

665
00:33:09.640 --> 00:33:14.000
consultant specializing in meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author,

666
00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:17.799
she helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and

667
00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:23.039
develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,

668
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:26.079
and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to

669
00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:29.039
invite a lease to speak to your organization, please visit

670
00:33:29.079 --> 00:33:32.279
her at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to

671
00:33:32.319 --> 00:33:40.839
get your employees working on purpose. This is Working on

672
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:44.480
Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today

673
00:33:44.599 --> 00:33:47.359
or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email

674
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:52.519
to Alise A. L Se at elisecortes dot com. Now

675
00:33:52.759 --> 00:33:54.359
back to working on Purpose.

676
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:01.599
Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to Working

677
00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:04.400
on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Relis Cortes. As you

678
00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:06.759
know by now, this program is dedicated to empowering and

679
00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:09.559
inspiring you along your journey to realize more of your potential.

680
00:34:10.039 --> 00:34:12.199
I mentioned in the last segment that my book The

681
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:14.760
Great Vivitalization came out. What I did for you is

682
00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:17.199
I created a simple three page assessment that you can

683
00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:20.159
pull off my website gustodeshnow dot com. To help you

684
00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:22.440
determined the extent to which you are meeting the discerning

685
00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:26.719
needs of today's destination workplace desires. If you're just now

686
00:34:26.760 --> 00:34:29.679
joining us, My guest is doctor Rabbi Bardo Bijlevi. He's

687
00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:33.000
the author of spark Seekers, Morning with Meaning and The

688
00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:35.760
Guy in the Glass. Six Questions to See the Man

689
00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:38.159
You Were Meant to be. He also hosts the podcast

690
00:34:38.199 --> 00:34:41.400
thirteen Minutes Why every Man Needs a Wive. So let's

691
00:34:41.440 --> 00:34:43.400
cover off on them the last two questions you're in

692
00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:45.239
the book to give our listeners and viewers a flavor.

693
00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:48.559
Here favorite next question number five is what's your number?

694
00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:52.079
Well, that sounds pretty obvious, doesn't it? Can I get

695
00:34:52.119 --> 00:34:56.719
the digits? And then you start to think about back

696
00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:59.719
to the personal concentration camp and how many men like

697
00:34:59.719 --> 00:35:02.679
my My father had a lot of reasons why he

698
00:35:02.719 --> 00:35:05.960
said he killed himself in a suicide note. But the

699
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:07.880
what he didn't say and I found out afterwards, was

700
00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:11.480
a mountain of debt. And when he looked into the mirror,

701
00:35:12.079 --> 00:35:15.239
I say his number was zero, right, because zero times

702
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:18.079
anything is nothing, And no matter how much he had,

703
00:35:18.119 --> 00:35:20.880
it was never enough, because he was never enough. And

704
00:35:20.920 --> 00:35:23.039
so you start to think about numbers in a different way.

705
00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:25.000
You know, when I was growing up, I was the

706
00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:29.760
fat kid, and numbers literally almost crushed me. You know,

707
00:35:29.800 --> 00:35:33.039
the numbers on a scale and all of that represents

708
00:35:33.079 --> 00:35:36.159
people get into IQ, you get into zip codes, you

709
00:35:36.159 --> 00:35:39.119
get into there's just endless amount of numbers and numbers,

710
00:35:39.639 --> 00:35:42.840
as Victor Frankel said, or would reduce the human being

711
00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:46.760
literally in the concentration camps, and they reduce individuals. And

712
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:49.119
so it challenges us to think about how are we

713
00:35:49.159 --> 00:35:51.199
imprisoned by our numbers and what's our number?

714
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:57.440
I thought that was such a powerful awareness for me,

715
00:35:57.559 --> 00:35:59.400
and it's sort of an insight for me to the

716
00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:02.000
numbers is really really important, you know, age, all these

717
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:04.519
kinds of things, you know, your net worth, everything, it's

718
00:36:04.599 --> 00:36:07.800
just so much to it, so much heaviness to that.

719
00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:10.519
I just counseled a woman who doesn't have a child

720
00:36:10.519 --> 00:36:12.440
and her number is zero, and she looks at her

721
00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:14.639
friends who have one, two or three. She sees the

722
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:17.360
world through that number. And we're just working on can

723
00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:18.880
you break free from the number?

724
00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:24.920
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, last question, which really kind of cracks

725
00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:26.920
me up, you know, so you're not keep in mind

726
00:36:26.960 --> 00:36:28.719
listening viewers who've been at the bar for a while.

727
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:31.039
So now the last question is how are you getting home?

728
00:36:32.840 --> 00:36:36.400
Are you getting home? That's the magical answer usually back

729
00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:40.559
in the day, but in this case it's much deeper question,

730
00:36:40.679 --> 00:36:44.079
as they all are. And it's ultimately like home to

731
00:36:44.159 --> 00:36:46.840
the guy in the glass, to the man or woman

732
00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:51.360
staring back to your true self and you know, not

733
00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:53.400
giving too much away, but at the end of the day,

734
00:36:54.199 --> 00:36:56.239
it all comes down to love. When I was a

735
00:36:56.320 --> 00:36:59.960
rabbi did five hundred funerals, many of them were uber

736
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:03.559
successful on the outside, but they weren't successful on the

737
00:37:03.559 --> 00:37:05.960
inside because they didn't have, or they didn't give, or

738
00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:07.280
they didn't receive enough love.

739
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.880
M can you just say a little bit more be

740
00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:13.800
because I can imagine that most of the listeners, maybe

741
00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:16.599
the listeners really don't understand this idea of coming home

742
00:37:16.639 --> 00:37:17.239
to yourself.

743
00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:21.840
Yeah again. You know, my grandfather gave me that poem

744
00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:23.719
the Guy in the Glass when I was a young

745
00:37:23.800 --> 00:37:27.000
man in my twenties, just heading down the wrong path.

746
00:37:27.039 --> 00:37:29.280
And you know, in his wise way, by the way,

747
00:37:29.320 --> 00:37:32.639
he carried this poem with him through World War Two.

748
00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:35.880
It was very important him and it was on his

749
00:37:36.199 --> 00:37:39.880
nursing home wall when he died. So it has a

750
00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:41.920
lot of meaning for me, but one of which was

751
00:37:41.960 --> 00:37:45.519
he was calling me back to the mirror, right the reckoning,

752
00:37:45.559 --> 00:37:48.079
the accounting, like, yeah, you can go down this path

753
00:37:48.119 --> 00:37:50.119
and you can have all you know it says in

754
00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:52.920
the poem you can. You know, you can pats on

755
00:37:52.960 --> 00:37:55.119
the back as you pass, but your final reward will

756
00:37:55.119 --> 00:37:57.119
be hearty in tears if you've cheated the guy in

757
00:37:57.159 --> 00:38:00.320
the glass. And I have sat with so many at

758
00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:01.840
the end of our people, at the end of their

759
00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:06.039
life and their deathbeds, and you just know when you've

760
00:38:06.039 --> 00:38:08.079
been with somebody who's cheated the guy or the gallon

761
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:10.840
the glass, and that is if there's a hell, that's it.

762
00:38:12.519 --> 00:38:14.239
Thank you? That was I think that brought it right

763
00:38:14.280 --> 00:38:17.440
home for everybody. Okay, now I can't let you off

764
00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:20.360
the show without talking about you know this your own

765
00:38:21.480 --> 00:38:23.880
There's so much about what you sprinkle throughout the book

766
00:38:23.880 --> 00:38:26.280
that's just raw and intense about you and your own life.

767
00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:31.480
But that whole experience of you know, your deep dark

768
00:38:31.559 --> 00:38:33.519
Knight in the Woods is really powerful if you want

769
00:38:33.519 --> 00:38:35.960
to how are you going to situate setting that up

770
00:38:35.960 --> 00:38:37.639
at what that was about and what you got from

771
00:38:37.639 --> 00:38:39.679
that and maybe before you went into it, why did

772
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:41.199
you know, why are you fighting with your wife in

773
00:38:41.199 --> 00:38:43.079
the first place? What were you struggling with?

774
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:47.000
For me, it came down to my title. My name

775
00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:51.840
was not b or Bar, it was rabbi. You know,

776
00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:54.639
there are certain professions that come at a cost, and

777
00:38:54.679 --> 00:38:57.639
I think clergy is one of them, not the only one.

778
00:38:58.119 --> 00:39:00.199
And you, no matter how ad I try to, it's

779
00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:04.360
not what I did, It's who I was. And I

780
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:07.199
started to believe my own bullshit. I was Rabbi b

781
00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:12.079
that was the stage name, the persona, and I lost myself. Literally,

782
00:39:12.159 --> 00:39:14.320
I'd go to the mirror and I just didn't recognize

783
00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:17.159
myself anymore. And this was, you know, over a fifteen

784
00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:20.360
year period when I was a congregational rabbi, and I

785
00:39:20.440 --> 00:39:22.480
just got to this place where I knew, if I

786
00:39:22.519 --> 00:39:26.119
did not get out from under this mask, this persona,

787
00:39:26.199 --> 00:39:29.440
I would be my family's number three. I would kill myself.

788
00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:33.639
And so you know, long story short, I ended up

789
00:39:33.639 --> 00:39:36.719
in the woods by myself, and I wrestled till the

790
00:39:36.760 --> 00:39:39.199
break of dawn, and I liken it for me to

791
00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:42.280
Jacob in the Bible, who wrestles through the dark Knight,

792
00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:45.360
and he's transformed on the other side of it, and

793
00:39:45.400 --> 00:39:48.079
his name has changed. He's changed, but he limps forever

794
00:39:48.199 --> 00:39:51.679
because a lot of wounds, a lot of damage, and

795
00:39:51.800 --> 00:39:54.199
it doesn't go away. But you know, I started to

796
00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:57.840
take responsibility for it, change who I was, or maybe

797
00:39:57.880 --> 00:39:59.840
return to who I was, the guy in the glass,

798
00:40:00.480 --> 00:40:03.400
and that was sort of the catalyst for the next

799
00:40:03.440 --> 00:40:04.360
chapter of my life.

800
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:07.639
I want to dig down into a couple of things

801
00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:10.039
there be so one, like I said, I learned things

802
00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:11.440
about you in your book that I didn't know, and

803
00:40:11.480 --> 00:40:14.280
I've known you first several years, and one of them was,

804
00:40:14.320 --> 00:40:17.480
you know, you were profoundly successful as a rabbi. You

805
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:19.920
were well paid, well compensated. I was amazed to hear

806
00:40:19.960 --> 00:40:23.000
that some of the congregants would just simply send you

807
00:40:23.239 --> 00:40:25.159
new cars which you open your driveway. I mean, I

808
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:27.519
can't even imagine that kind of a life and what

809
00:40:27.559 --> 00:40:29.480
it takes to walk away from that kind of a life.

810
00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:32.400
So part of your experience of going to the woods

811
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:34.239
is if I have this, if I remember this correctly,

812
00:40:34.280 --> 00:40:36.719
as you got lost too, so that's part of the

813
00:40:36.760 --> 00:40:39.000
whole processes. You got lost while you're out there.

814
00:40:39.239 --> 00:40:40.960
Yeah, I mean, what happened in the woods is what

815
00:40:41.000 --> 00:40:44.119
happened in my life. I was lost in my darkness

816
00:40:44.239 --> 00:40:47.400
and losing my identity myself. And yeah, I was at

817
00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:49.480
the top of my game. I had a lifetime contract.

818
00:40:49.480 --> 00:40:53.840
I had a serious compensation package, and again, more than

819
00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:58.559
just the money, it was the status right and walking

820
00:40:58.599 --> 00:41:00.719
away from that, I ended up going out into those

821
00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:03.599
dark woods. And that was just the beginning. I didn't

822
00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:04.760
have a dark night at the soul. I had a

823
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:06.840
dark decade of the soul. It took me ten years

824
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:09.920
to work through it. We moved to Israel, to a

825
00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:12.199
mountaintop in the Middle East. I barely spoke the language.

826
00:41:12.199 --> 00:41:14.920
I couldn't be a rabbi. I was sweeping literally, I

827
00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:16.559
was in a synagogue one day and I was sweeping

828
00:41:16.639 --> 00:41:19.840
up and the rabbi was getting all the accolades. And

829
00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:23.280
that was my process of really shedding the mask and

830
00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:25.119
getting back to the guy in the glass.

831
00:41:27.079 --> 00:41:30.440
Well, you know, there's so much to learn from that,

832
00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:32.840
to be inspired by that and to relate to that

833
00:41:33.039 --> 00:41:35.320
be and I just really one of the many things

834
00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:37.039
I appreciate about you book is You're just you really

835
00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:39.679
are piercingly raw in it, which is I think the

836
00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:42.320
only way that you can really help access and give

837
00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:45.800
access to the readers, to you know, as they struggle

838
00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:47.760
through trying to understand and make sense of their own

839
00:41:47.800 --> 00:41:50.280
lives and who they are. Who's the guy in the glass.

840
00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:52.400
Yeah, when guys come to me, and I don't even

841
00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:54.920
call myself a therapist anymore because I'm just so you know,

842
00:41:54.960 --> 00:41:57.119
we just sit and we work together, and I just say,

843
00:41:57.159 --> 00:42:00.800
I'm just another banged up brother. And ramdas teacher of mine, said,

844
00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:03.880
we're all just here walking each other home, and that

845
00:42:03.880 --> 00:42:06.000
doesn't happen when you're a you know, a stage on

846
00:42:06.039 --> 00:42:08.280
the stage, and I'm not just a banged up brother

847
00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:09.800
walk another men home.

848
00:42:11.159 --> 00:42:14.960
Well, I appreciate your humility because, like I said, I

849
00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:16.800
didn't know about all of this, and you know what

850
00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:18.760
you had really walked through to get to where you were.

851
00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:21.280
I only I only knew Bee as I know B today,

852
00:42:21.320 --> 00:42:23.480
So I didn't know about all of this other previous story.

853
00:42:23.480 --> 00:42:25.400
Now it makes me even respect you and appreciate you

854
00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:29.119
even more. B So, anyway, so let's do this. Let's

855
00:42:29.559 --> 00:42:31.400
it would be great in our little bit of time

856
00:42:31.400 --> 00:42:33.679
together here, I think our listeners and viewers would really

857
00:42:33.800 --> 00:42:36.280
like and benefit from hearing maybe a story or two

858
00:42:36.440 --> 00:42:39.920
about someone that you've helped, a man that you've helped

859
00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:42.119
through through your work. What was he dealing with and

860
00:42:42.199 --> 00:42:45.000
how did the two of you work together or daughter

861
00:42:45.079 --> 00:42:47.440
they were together in group if it was Yeah, this

862
00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:48.280
one just happened.

863
00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:51.280
This past month, I met a man named Wally who's

864
00:42:52.400 --> 00:42:56.840
late stage dementia, and he's in the seventies and he's

865
00:42:56.880 --> 00:42:59.719
going to be taking his life at some point. And

866
00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:02.039
I've spent most of my time I wanta trying to

867
00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:03.440
talk him out of it, but trying to talk to

868
00:43:03.519 --> 00:43:05.639
him about what there's always meaning in life. But I

869
00:43:05.679 --> 00:43:08.400
respect a man enough to know that, you know, that's

870
00:43:08.440 --> 00:43:13.559
his choice. And we have been digging into his dementia

871
00:43:13.639 --> 00:43:17.199
as the most meaningful time of his life. As he said,

872
00:43:17.800 --> 00:43:22.679
he is not thinking less, he's feeling more, and he

873
00:43:22.760 --> 00:43:25.320
has approached this and that has been At first, it

874
00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:28.199
was a personal concentration camp when he was sentenced to

875
00:43:28.440 --> 00:43:31.000
you know this for the rest of his life. And

876
00:43:31.079 --> 00:43:34.079
over the past few years, not me, but on his own,

877
00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:37.440
he has been finding the meaning. And so we're really

878
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:40.159
kind of tying up the loose ends of his life,

879
00:43:40.719 --> 00:43:43.519
framing it, capturing it so that it can be a

880
00:43:43.599 --> 00:43:47.000
legacy for those who follow after him. I'm proud of

881
00:43:47.079 --> 00:43:49.039
the work that we've been doing together in that space,

882
00:43:49.239 --> 00:43:50.599
and that is Victor Frankel.

883
00:43:50.280 --> 00:43:54.599
One on one mm hm. We have time for another

884
00:43:54.639 --> 00:43:55.960
if you if you have another one to share.

885
00:43:56.320 --> 00:43:58.360
That was hard to follow up, Alice, I don't know.

886
00:43:58.519 --> 00:44:00.519
I know what you got. You got a lot basket.

887
00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:00.960
I know that.

888
00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:03.519
Let me say I've shifted more out of one on

889
00:44:03.519 --> 00:44:07.440
one counseling and coaching to men's groups and our friend

890
00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:10.920
doctor Daniel Franz and I and another guy started men's

891
00:44:10.960 --> 00:44:12.920
peer groups and go to Men's peer groups dot com.

892
00:44:13.239 --> 00:44:16.400
Because this work as men has to happen in community.

893
00:44:16.760 --> 00:44:19.639
You know this, John Wayne, go to loone. Bootstrap mentality

894
00:44:19.719 --> 00:44:22.079
is part of what got us into the suicide statistic

895
00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:25.280
and so the only way out, a way out is

896
00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:30.119
to bring men together in community and commitments, authenticity, vulnerability,

897
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:32.320
because it's one thing to do with a therapist or

898
00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:34.039
even with your partner, but it's another thing to do

899
00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:37.119
in the community of men, and that has been transformative.

900
00:44:38.840 --> 00:44:41.599
My co author, doctor Arthur Serah McCauley also does group

901
00:44:41.639 --> 00:44:43.920
work like that too, and he's you know, he says,

902
00:44:43.960 --> 00:44:46.039
of course, and it's peers. So then your peers are

903
00:44:46.039 --> 00:44:48.840
helping you also to see you find them near and

904
00:44:48.840 --> 00:44:51.440
see what's in it kind of thing. And I agree

905
00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:53.719
with you, and certainly I can't even imagine how powerful

906
00:44:53.719 --> 00:44:55.639
that must be to be able to help those men

907
00:44:55.880 --> 00:44:58.719
have real, vulnerable conversations in front of each other and

908
00:44:58.760 --> 00:44:59.400
with each other.

909
00:45:00.199 --> 00:45:04.119
Yeah, that's transformative. I have seen more men grow because

910
00:45:04.119 --> 00:45:06.519
of that than anything else I've ever done in my life.

911
00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:09.239
And I guess I can't help because I know for me,

912
00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:13.599
some of my most fulfilling moments in my work are

913
00:45:13.639 --> 00:45:15.599
when the spouse of someone that I've been working with

914
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:17.800
inside companies reaches out and says, I don't know what

915
00:45:17.800 --> 00:45:21.280
you're doing, but thank you. Are you getting that kind

916
00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:22.039
of communication.

917
00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:26.800
Yes, we get a lot of partners, usually women, not always,

918
00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:30.639
who are reaching out to us. And I've done some videos,

919
00:45:30.679 --> 00:45:33.800
I mean, some podcasts with them just interviewing the transformation

920
00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:36.119
and their marriage. I think it's saved a lot of

921
00:45:36.199 --> 00:45:38.320
marriages because of the work they're doing, not because of

922
00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:40.239
anything we're doing. But that's the nature of it, right,

923
00:45:40.280 --> 00:45:42.639
A man doing his own work in a peer context

924
00:45:42.679 --> 00:45:45.239
nobody tells each other what to do. We just share

925
00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:48.440
our experience and in that process, men are becoming better men.

926
00:45:49.480 --> 00:45:51.280
And so what would be like a couple of other

927
00:45:51.320 --> 00:45:53.960
ways that the listeners and viewers have recognize, you know,

928
00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:56.800
these improvements. So a saved marriage is one the wife

929
00:45:56.840 --> 00:45:57.519
didn't walk out.

930
00:45:58.039 --> 00:46:00.639
One of the things we do in our peer group

931
00:46:00.679 --> 00:46:03.639
says we have a clearing So you go around the

932
00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:05.320
table and you say, Joe, I'm clear with you, Jim,

933
00:46:05.320 --> 00:46:06.880
I'm clear with you. John, I'm not clear with you.

934
00:46:06.880 --> 00:46:09.519
You didn't email me, and that hurt. And learning how

935
00:46:09.559 --> 00:46:12.039
to hear hard things and say hard things and not

936
00:46:12.119 --> 00:46:14.639
react because so many men, I know this is shocking.

937
00:46:15.360 --> 00:46:17.559
They wall up, they take the ball in their go home,

938
00:46:17.639 --> 00:46:19.760
or they come after you. They turn it around. To

939
00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:23.360
learn to how to hear hard things, say hard things,

940
00:46:23.599 --> 00:46:28.119
not react, just hold the space is transformative in the

941
00:46:28.159 --> 00:46:28.719
work of men.

942
00:46:30.840 --> 00:46:32.440
Well be. You know I'm a fan and you and

943
00:46:32.440 --> 00:46:34.719
I've gotten to do work together over the years, and

944
00:46:34.880 --> 00:46:38.960
I really tremendously appreciate and respect and applaud what you're doing.

945
00:46:39.079 --> 00:46:40.920
I thank you for that for helping more men become

946
00:46:41.000 --> 00:46:44.000
whole and to love themselves again. Thank you for coming

947
00:46:44.039 --> 00:46:45.199
back on working on purpose.

948
00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:46.280
Thank you, doctor.

949
00:46:46.280 --> 00:46:50.400
Else, we have time for just one one thing, one takeaway.

950
00:46:50.440 --> 00:46:52.440
What would you like to leave our listeners and viewers with,

951
00:46:54.159 --> 00:46:54.800
those who.

952
00:46:54.639 --> 00:46:58.320
Have a Y can bear almost anyhow, right, spend as

953
00:46:58.400 --> 00:47:01.039
much time on digging into what is my why? And

954
00:47:01.079 --> 00:47:03.079
it doesn't have to be static, it can be evolving,

955
00:47:03.119 --> 00:47:05.159
It should be evolving, but as much time as you

956
00:47:05.199 --> 00:47:08.079
do on anything else, because again, those who have a

957
00:47:08.199 --> 00:47:09.679
Y can bear almost anyhow.

958
00:47:10.960 --> 00:47:14.800
So incredibly true and that certainly allowed me to persevere

959
00:47:14.800 --> 00:47:17.159
to through my hard years for sure, one hundred percent.

960
00:47:18.320 --> 00:47:20.760
Listeners and viewers, you are going to definitely want to

961
00:47:20.840 --> 00:47:22.840
learn more about doctor Rabbi a bat who could be

962
00:47:23.480 --> 00:47:25.880
high Leve and his books, his podcast and the work

963
00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:28.599
he's doing coaching men and in peer groups. You can

964
00:47:28.639 --> 00:47:31.199
start by visiting his one of his websites, it's just

965
00:47:31.239 --> 00:47:34.840
simply B the letter B and his last name ha Leve.

966
00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:38.519
So it's B H A L e v I dot

967
00:47:38.559 --> 00:47:42.360
com bhalv dot com. Last week, if you missed the

968
00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:45.280
live show, you can always catch it be recorded podcast.

969
00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:47.559
We were on air with Sherry Jacobs. She's the author

970
00:47:47.599 --> 00:47:50.760
of the Unexpected Power of Boundaries. And an innovation strategist

971
00:47:50.920 --> 00:47:55.559
who helps organizations unlock their creative potential by rethinking boundaries, risks,

972
00:47:55.599 --> 00:47:59.360
and leadership. We dove into the three key areas of boundaries, voice,

973
00:47:59.360 --> 00:48:02.599
and permission she situates in the book to help leaders

974
00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:08.079
unlock and unleash more innovation. It was surprisingly very attentive

975
00:48:08.119 --> 00:48:12.800
and accessible, useful across the whole organization. Next week will

976
00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:15.360
be on the air with Warren Cornblum. He's a former

977
00:48:15.400 --> 00:48:18.480
global chief marketing officer and the author of Notes from

978
00:48:18.519 --> 00:48:21.760
the Brandstand Thoughts on emotional branding From someone who has

979
00:48:21.800 --> 00:48:25.119
fought for customer attention and one, you will be surprised

980
00:48:25.159 --> 00:48:27.480
how much his work and what we talk about can

981
00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:30.599
be used to inform and improve employee and customer experience

982
00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:33.840
as well. See you, then, let's continue leaning into discovering

983
00:48:33.880 --> 00:48:36.159
how to elevate your operating system as a leader and

984
00:48:36.199 --> 00:48:40.079
create destination workplaces where legendary business takes place. Let's work

985
00:48:40.119 --> 00:48:40.679
on Purpose.

986
00:48:43.800 --> 00:48:46.440
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to

987
00:48:46.480 --> 00:48:49.519
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise

988
00:48:49.599 --> 00:48:53.199
Cortes each week on W four C. Why Together We'll

989
00:48:53.239 --> 00:48:57.239
create a world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires and

990
00:48:57.280 --> 00:49:00.639
passion performance and employees are fulfilled in work that provides

991
00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:03.760
the meaning and purpose they crave. See you there. Let's

992
00:49:03.840 --> 00:49:04.920
work on purpose.