June 16, 2026

Brand with Backbone: Why Emotional Connection Drives Loyalty

Brand with Backbone: Why Emotional Connection Drives Loyalty
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What makes a brand unforgettable? Conviction. Warren Kornblum explores how standing for something meaningful sparks emotional connection, earns belief, and subtly shapes culture. Learn why values must be lived, not stated, and how great brands evolve their voice without losing their core. But conviction alone isn’t enough—trust is built by consistently delivering on your promises. At its best, a brand creates genuine human connection, turning transactions into relationships that endure.

Working on Purpose is broadcast live Tuesdays at 6PM ET and Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Working on Purpose is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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WEBVTT

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The topics and opinions express in the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests and not

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be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing

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What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the

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answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose

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at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their

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lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization

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that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their

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highest potential. Business can be such a force for good

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in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide

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guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we

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all want Working on Purpose. Now, here's your host, doctor

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Elise Cortez.

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Welcome back to the Working on Purpose program, which has

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been brought to you with passion and pride since February

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of twenty fifteen. Thanks for tuning in this week. Great

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to have you. I'm your host, doctor Release Cortes. Most

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leaders are sitting on untapped human energy, and I help

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them unlock it. I'm an organizational psychologist, logotherapist, workforce advisor

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and the founder of the Gusto Now movement. But the

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title I live by is much simpler. I traffic and energy,

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not the surface level kind of motivation or another engagement initiative,

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but the deeper force what I call Gusto, the life

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force for performance that drives commitment, perseverance, and genuine ownership

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of a shared mission in the clients we serve. You

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can learn more abo us and how we can work

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together at Gusto dashnow dot com, or visit my personal

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site a Leascortes dot com for information on my speaking

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and my books with us Today is Warren Kornblum, the

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former global chief marketing officer of Toys r US as

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well as other leading international brands, and the author of

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Notes from the randstand thoughts on emotional branding from someone

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who has fought for customer attention and one He now

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advises leaders and brands on how to build trust and

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emotional connection, as well as on what he calls share

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of Heart. We'll be talking about several of the ideas

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he puts forth in this book on creating an emotional

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brand that unites you with your customer. He joined us

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today from Palm Beach, Florida, where it is storming. Warren,

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welcome to working on purpose.

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Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. And hopefully

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mother and nature will cooperate.

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Yeah. I wanted to say that just in case you

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go off for a bit. So here is this beautiful

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book you put into the world. I always like to

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celebrate this, Warren, because especially you, being a man, I

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like to say that what you did in putting forth

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this book is actually harder than it is to bring

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a new life into the world that I've done both,

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so I can tell you it's true. Congratulations. So let's

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open if we can, Since our listeners and viewers aren't

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disacquainted with you as I am, if you would just

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sketch your background briefly and how it was that you

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chose to work in branding. Why this? Why not accounting?

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For gosh sakes, well, probably my math wasn't good enough

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for the accounting side. But no. I was born in

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Toronto and I'm Canadian. Been in the United States now

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for about thirty years, and to be honest, I think

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that it was a calling for me. I just have

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always been fascinated by business, by brands, by people's reaction

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to them. I started out in the advertising business, spent

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the first part of my career running my own aid. Well,

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I didn't started my own agency, but started in advertising

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as a copywriter actually, then went to business school and

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then went into the advertising world. At some point in

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the late nineties, my agency was bought and I was

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moved to New York as part of that. In an earnout,

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as often happens to people when they sell their company,

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have to go to work for the acquirers. And as

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an entrepreneurial advertising agency person who was very much into

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the nitty gritty of working with clients and things like that,

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I was not as comfortable sitting in a corner office,

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being more of an executive. I wanted to get into

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the trenches and work with clients, work with the creative teams.

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When the three years was up, quickly I decided that

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it wasn't for me to be in that environment and

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I was recruited, as you mentioned in my introduction, to

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be the first global Chief marketing Officer of Toys r US,

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which in those days was dealing with the Amazon coming

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on strong, Walmart getting into the toy category, Internet really

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coming on strong, and they decided that they needed someone

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else to take a look at their marketing strategy. So

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I did that and I was there until when it

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was a public company, until it sold to private equity

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in two thousand and six, and since then I've been

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advising clients, but brands have just always been something that

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fascinated me that I think I was good at and

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I think most of all, I enjoy the relationships, both

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with clients as well as with customers. So that's how

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I got there.

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Well, as we were talking before we got on air,

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I have fond memories of Toys r US of course, shopping,

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you know, mostly for my daughter to get toys, and

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I think, you know, back to your concept or the

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emotional connection. I think part of the reason I loved

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Toys r US and maybe others do as well, is

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when you walk into the store, it was like okay

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to be a kid again yourself.

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Sadly, yeah, you know, I think that the biggest thing

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I still get it. I left in two thousand and six,

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so it's been twenty years, and people still automatically when

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they know of my background and my time there, want

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to talk about those days, want to talk about their

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memories of Toys r Us and frankly in terms of

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emotional connection. When I'm talking to them, and I'm sure

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this is what you go through too, you almost think

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about it in human terms. It's almost like it was

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a friend and it was about the magic of being

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a child. And you know, one of the first things

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I did when I got there, because I was a

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Toys r Us kid too, and one of the first

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things I did when I got there is I said,

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you know, we have to give people an ability to

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kind of celebrate emotionally the brand that they love. There

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were flaws, the stores were not perfect, there were lots

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of issues. Our internet wasn't that great. But at the

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end of the day, what we did, and how long

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the company had been doing it was where the magic was.

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And you know, one of the first things I did

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was two simple things. They weren't rocket science, they just

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made perfect sense to me. One is, for whatever reason

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they had stopped using which you will remember the famous

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song that people mostly can still sing today. I don't

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want to grow up. I'm a Toys r Us kid. Yeah,

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I do generational thing, but for whatever reason, they had

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stopped using it for a while, so we brought that back.

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And then the other thing was Jeffrey the Giraffe, who

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was from the day Charles Lazarus founded the company, you know,

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probably over almost one hundred years ago. Now it was

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a two dimensional giraffe. But I said, you know, Jeffries

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kind of like grandparents had grown up on him, were

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the first generation, parents were the next generation, and the

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kids today. So we brought them back in a contemporary way.

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But I thought it was really important that those links

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to the heart of Toys r Us, which I think,

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in truth was almost better than the reality of it.

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But that was what the connection was with people, and

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I think it's endured time. So yeah, they were great years.

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I really enjoy those, but it is it is surprising

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to me how often people, I mean, my advertising career,

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my consulting career, my speaking career, everybody inevitably the first

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question is Toys r Us And I love that, you know,

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it's a big part of my life too.

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Such a wonderful thing to get to experience. So the

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reas One of the reasons I'm an organizational psychologist and

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not say a clinical psychologist, is because I believe in

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the wonder and the power and the dignity and the

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nobility of work to be an important part of our lives,

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and I wanted to. I want it to be better

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for people. For a lot of people it isn't, and

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I'm out that's part of our mission is to help

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make this a better experience for them. So before we

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go on or I think it would be important for

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our listeners and viewers and be of service to them

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if you gave us your idea of what is a brand?

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What do we mean by brand?

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Well, I think that you know, stores have names or brands.

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You know, soaps have names, and cars have names. But

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at the end of the day, a brand, I think

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elevates beyond just name and service and commodity. It becomes

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kind of the it's almost overused, but it becomes kind

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of the DNA or the personality of the business. It's

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when you get it right. The brand is everything that

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the experience, the actual transactional side of the business, the

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hiring of the business. I mean, I always say to

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everybody that I talk to, the brand isn't owned by

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the CEO or the shareholders of the founders it is.

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But the best brands are owned by everybody top to

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bottom and bottom to top in an organization, and most importantly,

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when you get it right, their own either people who

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shop or do or do business with that company. It's

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almost like human personality and business brand are analogous in

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many ways. In my mind, it's kind of what that

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entity stands for. Obviously, some businesses don't have brands because

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all they are is they you know, they are commodity

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providers and transaction based. But when you really start to

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build internal loyalty culture, which I know is true to

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you know, near and dear to your heart, that's what

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a brand is. A brand is everything that kind of

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surrounds the essence of a business. Wonderful.

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Okay, So let's compare in contrastor you do this beautifully

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in the twenty seven I think it is chapters of

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your book. But I really appreciate that you compare contrast.

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And so if we talk about some of the brands

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that have gone away, so you know, Kodak, sharper Image,

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Radio Shack, Blockbuster, many others are examples that they were

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one stominant companies that failed, you say, because their brands,

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the brand stands, didn't adapt to changing times, because they

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lost touch with their audiences. If you could say a

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little bit more about that, and then I want to

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contrast the ones that have kind of stuck around.

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Sure, I think that two things happen. One is is

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that I think brands get in their own way, which

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is part of some of those examples you used, and

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I think also circumstances in the market change and they

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don't know how to get out of that way. Yes,

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in the case for example of Kodak, which is probably

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a classic one, a lot of people don't realize that

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Kodak was the first adopter of digital technology and the

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higher ups in the organization somewhere decided, well, we can't

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do that because if we do that, we're not going

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to sell film. Well, that decision may meant that you

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weren't only not going to sell film, you were probably

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positioning yourself almost right out of business. Because people, the consumer,

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who are the customer, in my mind, is the most

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important thing in any equation of business and customers were evolving,

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and customers were looking to you know, digital cameras in

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those days, and then quickly that transitions, that transition through

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Steve Jobs in the main terms of the phone and

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Kodak just failed to move with the times. They didn't

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feel failed to recognize it because they invented or were

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on the cosual camera. They just decided that they were.

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You know, it's almost like the too big to fail.

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Their business was not going to be challenged by technology. Well,

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you know, twenty years later more than that now, as

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you go through those conversations, technology is going to change businesses.

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It's changing them every day and continue to. I think

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in terms of sharper Image, it's probably the second image second,

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the second example that I gave where they just lost relevance.

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They were the place that used to go for new

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innovation and there weren't the other options that you could

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do as fast and as easily through online through search

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on your phones. And I think sharper Image just didn't

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move with the times and didn't realize that their customer

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wanted a different way to shop. It wasn't so much

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that they didn't have unique products. I think they did,

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it was a matter that they weren't doing it in

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a way that the consumer in those days wanted, and

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other options appeared, and they didn't keep their edge on

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the innovation cycle.

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Interesting that they didn't keep their sharper image veract. And

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we'll talk about this later, but that really speaks to

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this kind. They need to constantly listen to your to

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your customers and hear and understand them their needs, where

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they're going, et cetera, which you're describing as is really

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lacking there.

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As you know, I mean, thank you for having spent

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some time with the book, but that's one of the

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things that I almost felt when I was reading writing it,

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that almost felt I said too many times, but I

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don't think I can say them enough times, which is

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listening is the most important side of communicating it truly is.

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And if you know one on one one thing. But

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even when you're talking to millions, you need to understand

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what they're saying and listen to them because it's about them.

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It's you have no God given right to do business

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right right right right.

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Well, so here we are. We've started off by talking

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about some of these these well known brands that failed.

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I want to be able to situate because this gets

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to your world those that they might be small but

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resourceful teams with even fewer resources, but somehow they manage

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to achieve extraordinary success because they understand one thing. As

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you say, brands live and die in the human heart.

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Yes, yeah, I one hundred percent agree with that. It's

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when you talk about people who are loyal to a brand.

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Back to the Toys r Us story, I mean, it's

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almost like they're talking about a friend. It's almost like

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they've lost when they go away. It's like they've lost

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somebody when they disappoint you, which because its almost as

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if a friend disappointed you. And why is that. It's

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because they're not living on you know, on their Visa

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MasterCard or Amex card. They're living with the brand and

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in their heart, and they have expectations of the brand,

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which is why they have loyalty to it.

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M So, you know, I think it was for me,

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as I said to you Warrent, that this your book

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really helped reinforce some of the work that we do

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in culture transformation and culture development around purpose, especially and

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I wanted to situate. You said, over time, there are

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three things became very evident for you in your career.

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You say, one, marketing is about selling, while branding concentrates

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on building connections. I think that was really powerful. Two,

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the best brands prioritize building trust instead of just grabbing attention.

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Also powerful. And then finally, ultimately, you say, you can't

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build a lasting brand unless it resonates with people and

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evolves with them. I thought that was so critical in

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the Codac thing are not Codeca sharp brimage thing was

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just a perfect example of that.

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Yeah, and I think all three are true, and if

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there's a through line to them, it really is it's

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about the customer. It's not about us, right, I mean

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as the brand people or the people running businesses. Obviously

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it's you know, we're an important part of it. But

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if you lose touch with, or lose sight of, or

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stop fulfilling the expectations and aspirations of your customer, you're

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you know, there's a train at the end, there's a

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light at the end of the tunnel, en it probably

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is a train. So yeah, I mean the good news.

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I think as I tend to humanize a lot of this,

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and whenever I think about a customer, I always almost

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put it into human terms. Realizing of course they're not

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one person, but there is there's like modeling that goes on,

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and understanding why they want to be loyal to you,

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why they want to you know, what they want from

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your category, I think is key to providing it. And

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then it's not about lip servers. You can't just say

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it and then it is I think that you have

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to live it. You have to make sure the entire

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organization and every touch point that people have with you

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is consist is clear, and that they all value the

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customer because if you don't, they have lots of options

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and lots of alternatives, and they're not going to be

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loyal to you and you're not going to touch their

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heart right right.

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Well, on that note, let's grab our first break and

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let our listeners and viewers reflect on some of the

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things we've talked about so far. I'm your host, doctor

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Earles Cortes. We've been on the air with Warren Kornblum.

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He's the former global Chief Marketing Officer of Toys r

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US as well as other leading international brands. He now

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advises leaders and brands on how to build trust and

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emotional connections, as well as on what he calls share

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of heart, which is what we've been largely talking about

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here in the beginning. Here, we've been talking about just

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the foundations of what makes for branding, why is it important,

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and how do we know it's working. After the break,

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we're going to start getting into that a brand needs

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a stand and that comes from the idea of conviction,

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and we'll showcase Nike's just do it to start that process.

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We'll be right back.

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Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

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and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies

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visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

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leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

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commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

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a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her

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at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

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your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose

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with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or

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to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to

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Elise Alise at elisecortes dot com. Now back to working

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on purpose.

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Thanks for saying with us and welcome back to Working

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on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as I

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am dedicated to help them create a world where organizations

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thrive because they're people thrive, and we're led by inspirational

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leaders that help them find and contribute their greatness, and

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we do business that better is the world. I keep

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researching and writing my own books, so one of my

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latest came out. It's called The Great Revitalization. How activating

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meaning and purpose can radically enliven your business And in

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order to help leaders understand today's very discerning workforce, what

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do they want to need from you to give their

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best and want to stick around? And then I provide

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you twenty two best practices to equip you to provide

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that for them through your leadership and your culture. You

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can find my books on Amazon or my personal site

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at last Quortes dot com if you are just now

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joining us. My guest is Warren Cornblum. He's the author

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of Notes from the Brandstand Thoughts on emotional branding from

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someone who has fought for customer attention and won. So

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it's really kind of hard not to have a conversation

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about really great branding and not talk about Nike. But

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and I have gotten the chance to do some work

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with Nike, which is it's an amazing organization. Talk about

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a brand that just really really lives. I mean, it

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really is exceptional, performance oriented, but also celebrates everyone's an

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athlete kind of thing. But in one of your chapters

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you talk about how every brand needs a stand and

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how that comes from conviction.

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Yes, I think, and I think Nike is a good example.

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There are thankfully lots of them, but Nike certainly is

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one that people pretty much everybody is aware of and

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has been touched by and has had them on their

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feet or on their bodies. And I think it goes

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back to the days when Phil Knight and his team

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early on realized that to go from just being a

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shoe provider to athletes, that what they really needed to

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do is find a way to get the everyday person,

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be they recreational, be they walkers, be they joggers, or

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be they athletes, to embrace Nike as a way of

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life and a part of their lives in addition to

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just being a shoe provider. You know, when you think

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about it, some of the things that they did could

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easily have pigeonholed them into They're only good for me

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if I'm really good at that sport, if I'm you know, off,

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if I could jump like Michael Jordan, or I can

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you know, on and on and on, and the brilliance

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of that famous campaign Just do It was saying to

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people you can do it too. I mean, it's about

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a lifestyle. It's about being inclusive. It's about sharing in

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the in what we do and how we do it

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and how we live. And you know, I think I

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often say that the three cornerstones everybody always talks about

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which are true about well being are obviously fitness, diet,

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and sleep. And I actually was in two of those

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businesses because sleep as well. But when you think about

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it in the context of Nike and fitness and wellness,

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they were saying to everyday people, we can get you there,

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and it's not about buying the shoe. It's about embracing

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the lifestyle and our brand and everything we stand for

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can help you get there because it's about you, the consumer,

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not so much about us sitting in a boardroom and

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trying to convince you to do something you're not comfortable with.

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I really appreciate that to me, that's you know, it

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speaks to the idea of aspiration you mentioned before, what

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are your customers aspiring for? Why I'm starting to be

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an athlete too? Right? And I appreciate in that same

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chapter you also talk about, you know, Sephora, you also

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talk about with Death, which I didn't really know what

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that was all about. I see there are vans all

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over the place. But what you also said that was

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so interesting is you said these brands aren't just selling products,

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they're selling belief systems.

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Which I think is absolutely true. I mean, you know,

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if Nike was all about shoes, or energy drinks were

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all just about drinking a drink and whatever happens, or

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Sephora was just about you know, being a supermodel, well

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that's exclusive. That's not inclusive. And where these brands I

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think have been successful is they found a way to

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do a giant hug to a huge consumer group that

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says you belong here. You know. Sephora did it by

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not being polarizing to a stereotype of women who could

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shop in their stores. They were about everybody. They were

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about different looks, different races, different you know. Afford well,

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affordability was always kind of a platform for them, and

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I think the same thing with Nike. I mean Nike

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it is it's a group hug for everybody in the

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world who wants to have comfort and get out there

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and do things. And also yeah, also you know, be

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kind of stylish about it too. I mean if they

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were ugly, I don't know that it would work. Although

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you probably know, one of the things or one of

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the companies I talk about a little bit in the

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book that's probably for a later conversation is crocs. I

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mean those things were ugly when they fascinate. Yeah, they

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found a way to go from ugly to cool. Yea,

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why because they gave their consumers. It's probably a very

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simplistic way to put it, but you know, that big

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hug to your consumer and to your organization that's bringing

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you to the consumers really important.

439
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I really like how you say that, you know that

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extending that big hug, and don't we all need a

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hug for cost sakes, you know? Okay, So we would

442
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be remiss, completely worried if we didn't talk about the

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chapter you have, which is entitled Purpose is Essential, and

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it's the idea of purpose drives relevance and I really

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aligned with this because it's very much the work that

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we do around culture and leadership is you say that

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purpose is a system, not a statement, and so you say,

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you know, a true brand purpose isn't something you invent

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in a workshop. It's not a headline, a presentation, or

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a marketing asset. It's the core focus of your business.

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The reason why decisions are made, the way to are

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is how you hire, how you prioritize, what fuels innovation,

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shapes culture, and it enhances customer experience. It's embedded, not announced.

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That's the very work that we do too. Again, I

455
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saw so many of those strong parallels between branding purpose

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and culture purpose that we work with.

457
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Well, and I think I'm glad to hear that because

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I think it's essential and I think business leaders, brand

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people and anybody who's just fascinated by brands need to

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understand that that's a huge difference, that it's not just

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about what you say, particularly in the world we live

462
00:24:34.640 --> 00:24:37.720
in today. I mean, anybody can go out and buy awareness.

463
00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:41.559
Things used to cost hundreds of thousands or millions of

464
00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:43.720
dollars in terms of marketing budgets, so you could get

465
00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:48.559
messages out there it's not like that anymore. Everybody has

466
00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:52.920
instant access to information, instant access to both good news

467
00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:56.319
and bad news from a business perspective as well as

468
00:24:56.359 --> 00:24:59.680
just life in general. And I think that organizations who

469
00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:03.559
just say, well, you know, wouldn't it be cool if

470
00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:06.279
we took a stand on this and we're just going

471
00:25:06.319 --> 00:25:10.880
to tell people about it, Well, today's consumers are so

472
00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:13.599
it's so easy to check things out. It's so easy

473
00:25:13.640 --> 00:25:16.519
to do that litmus test of is this truth or

474
00:25:16.680 --> 00:25:20.200
is this marketing, which is where the marketing selling versus

475
00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:23.960
brand being the essence of a business. I think when

476
00:25:23.960 --> 00:25:26.640
you talk about purpose, it's that you can to say, oh,

477
00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:28.359
we're charitable and we're going to write a check for

478
00:25:28.359 --> 00:25:31.680
one hundred thousand dollars to some company who cares. I

479
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:35.519
think the consumer sets through that when you are a

480
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:39.799
company that lives it, eats it, breathes it, top to

481
00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:42.319
bottom and bottom the top. Everybody in the organization is

482
00:25:42.359 --> 00:25:45.000
that way, and your customers embrace it and share the

483
00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:48.359
purpose of the business, then I think you transcend it

484
00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:51.400
just being a commodity. You know. Again, I think that

485
00:25:53.119 --> 00:25:55.440
far too much lip service is given to purpose and

486
00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:01.440
not anywhere near enough just commitment and action one.

487
00:26:01.440 --> 00:26:04.480
Hundred percent, Yeah, one hundred percent. And in our work,

488
00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:07.680
you know, WAREN, we really help organizations to help the

489
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:10.839
help the whole team get aligned via their head or

490
00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:13.519
understanding of the purpose their heart. How does how is

491
00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:16.279
it connected to their own sense of purpose in life

492
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:18.680
and their values? How does it extend that? And then

493
00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:21.039
their hands? What do they actually do? How do they

494
00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:23.599
make the decisions? You know how you talk about you know,

495
00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:27.400
four seasons empowering the team to be able to make decisions,

496
00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:28.920
you know, on the spot, to be able to take

497
00:26:28.960 --> 00:26:30.720
care of customers because they know what the purpose of

498
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:33.400
the organization is and they're empowered to do that. And

499
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:35.599
that's how we do that. So that because I the

500
00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:39.279
thing that I really get disgusted with is, as you say,

501
00:26:39.319 --> 00:26:41.599
purpose has become just you know, it's all over the place,

502
00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:43.759
but yet it means nothing. So when you hear things

503
00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:46.519
like pancakes on purpose or tires on purpose, you just

504
00:26:46.960 --> 00:26:47.720
want to throw up.

505
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:51.160
You know, well, I think, I just I think your

506
00:26:51.200 --> 00:26:53.880
work is so important in that because you can see

507
00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:55.759
it when I go into a company as an advisor,

508
00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:58.759
and I tend to be you know, in the as

509
00:26:58.839 --> 00:27:01.480
much as I'd like to permeate the entire organization. I'm

510
00:27:01.519 --> 00:27:04.079
one person, so sometimes it's hard to but when you're

511
00:27:04.119 --> 00:27:06.119
in like the C suite and you're talking to people,

512
00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:10.279
you could just see that when people really have a

513
00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:13.279
strong sense of purpose, both as individuals as well as

514
00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:16.759
in business, it's just you're kind of walking on air.

515
00:27:16.920 --> 00:27:19.519
You're just happy to go into work. You understand what

516
00:27:19.559 --> 00:27:23.920
your purpose is and how the organization has relevance to

517
00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:26.039
the people that they're trying to talk to. And if

518
00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:28.839
that's not embraced, which is where I think your work

519
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:32.039
probably comes in in spades. If it's not embraced, then

520
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:34.880
it just is so see through that it's ridiculous and

521
00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:38.160
it doesn't work. It almost is a detriment if you

522
00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:40.559
talk about being an organization with purpose and you don't

523
00:27:40.799 --> 00:27:41.119
live it.

524
00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:43.440
Oh no, it's a terrible detriment. I've had many, many

525
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:46.039
conversations with people who are a part of those organizations.

526
00:27:45.559 --> 00:27:49.400
It's actually, you know, something that's going to shorten your

527
00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:53.160
life on some level. It's that detrimental. But that's the

528
00:27:53.240 --> 00:27:55.319
energy piece that we're talking about. When we can connect that,

529
00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:58.079
now we've lifted the energy, which allows you to do.

530
00:27:58.039 --> 00:27:59.680
So much more exactly.

531
00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:02.000
That's what's why we're seeing we traffic and energy. But

532
00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:05.240
so we have we talked about purpose. Now, of course

533
00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:07.359
I can't let you go without talking about meaning, because

534
00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:09.880
those are our two you know pillars, really purpose and meaning.

535
00:28:09.880 --> 00:28:12.359
And so you go on to say that you say

536
00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:16.400
build meaning, not just attention meaning Foster's loyalty. So let's

537
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:17.519
talk about what you mean by that.

538
00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:21.799
Well, I think that you know, as I said earlier,

539
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:24.839
anybody can sort of grab attention, but I think grabbing

540
00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:32.839
meaning a connection, a piece of someone's uh part, I

541
00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:38.000
guess yes, as opposed to just their wallets is so important.

542
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:41.279
And you do that by having relevance to people, by

543
00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:46.799
having meaning to people, by standing for something, by transcending

544
00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:50.759
just the purchase, by you know, doing what you say

545
00:28:50.799 --> 00:28:53.039
and saying what you do, but doing but not saying

546
00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:55.279
what you do and then not doing it right. And

547
00:28:55.319 --> 00:28:59.519
I think that nobody has a kind of God given

548
00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:02.319
right to exist. There are so many options out there

549
00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:08.000
that consumers of all different categories can sense when a

550
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:11.480
company has meaning, And very importantly, I don't think a

551
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:15.039
brand or a company can have meaning unless it's also

552
00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:18.160
something that's embraced internally. One of the quick exercises I

553
00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:21.160
always do that is as intellectual as you are and

554
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:23.559
learn it. You may think it's silly, but I always

555
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:25.799
walk in and one of the first things I do, inevitably,

556
00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:28.400
in every waiting room I've ever gone into, there's the

557
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:31.920
mission statement somewhere. Sometimes it's hidden, sometimes it's not, so

558
00:29:31.960 --> 00:29:33.119
I'll look at it and I'll read it, and then

559
00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:35.519
I start talking to people in the organization about it,

560
00:29:35.720 --> 00:29:39.240
you know, and you can see. I mean, you get

561
00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:41.519
one of three basic reactions. One is you get a

562
00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:44.640
blank stare, which is scary. Two is you get, which

563
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:47.359
I think is almost equally scary, You get the exact

564
00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:50.480
reciting of what those points are on the statement with

565
00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:55.319
no personal input. Three you get that wonderful occasion where

566
00:29:55.359 --> 00:29:58.279
people are energized and sort of say it in their

567
00:29:58.319 --> 00:29:59.880
own words, but they know what the meaning of the

568
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:02.279
businesses and they know what the purpose of the business is.

569
00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:04.319
Those are the that's where you have to get to.

570
00:30:04.359 --> 00:30:08.880
In my mind, I completely we do something very similar. Warren, Yes, absolutely,

571
00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:13.200
and it's it's always fascinating to us. Okay, so I

572
00:30:13.640 --> 00:30:15.759
really love to this, especially here we are on the

573
00:30:15.799 --> 00:30:19.880
age of AI and automation everywhere you have a chapter about,

574
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:22.319
you know, human brands when connection is the advantage, and

575
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:24.400
this is where you're really talking about how you know,

576
00:30:24.440 --> 00:30:26.799
technology is great for being able to solve those routine

577
00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:30.960
problems and automate wait times and you know, but technology

578
00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:33.839
can't feel. And so when the stakes are high emotionally,

579
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:36.759
when a customer is frustrated, anxious, or hurt, what the

580
00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:39.640
need most isn't efficiency, it's connection. And that's when you

581
00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:41.799
want the human to be involved. And that's definitely part

582
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:44.359
of what we're doing too, is doubling down on humanity

583
00:30:44.359 --> 00:30:46.640
in the age of technology. So I thought that that

584
00:30:46.759 --> 00:30:49.119
was an important distinction, especially when building a brand, that

585
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:54.039
you're inserting the human piece here, especially when it's really important.

586
00:30:54.880 --> 00:30:57.400
And I think it's at both ends of the of

587
00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:01.480
the spectrum, right. I think it's it's first, everybody is racing.

588
00:31:02.359 --> 00:31:05.680
Everybody is i know, racing to get you know, AI

589
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:07.880
and the budgets and this and that and who's there

590
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:09.799
going to replace and what's it going to do. But

591
00:31:10.279 --> 00:31:15.759
if there's not some human component to what is AI

592
00:31:16.039 --> 00:31:19.960
enabling us for, what are we trying to get out

593
00:31:19.960 --> 00:31:24.240
of it? And where does it impact the people we're

594
00:31:24.279 --> 00:31:27.440
trying to speak with. Then I think you lose something.

595
00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:30.599
So I think it's two sides. One is is to me,

596
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:33.759
AI is is a huge enabler. I mean, I remember

597
00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:36.839
when I was running brands, if I wanted to get

598
00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:40.279
a kind of a sense of work, our customers were

599
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:42.039
So what did you do? You hired a research company.

600
00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:45.400
You can do focus groups, then usage, an attitude surveys, whatever,

601
00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:47.599
and then you waited three months for the results to

602
00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:49.839
come back. You don't have to wait three minutes anymore.

603
00:31:50.279 --> 00:31:52.720
You can. You know, you have real time information that's

604
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:57.839
hugely enabling in the right hands. On the other side,

605
00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:01.519
I'd say two things quickly. One is that to your point,

606
00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:05.400
machines don't have a heart, at least not now, and

607
00:32:05.400 --> 00:32:09.839
hopefully I will not in my lifetime. But so you know,

608
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:14.079
people rebel when they feel like they're talking to a

609
00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:17.880
machine or yeah, or even when they're talking to a

610
00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:21.480
programmatic you know, call center somewhere who's obviously reading from

611
00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:23.640
a stript and wants to get you off the phone

612
00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:26.519
as fast as they can. I mean, that's not AI,

613
00:32:26.640 --> 00:32:28.759
but it's kind of the same thing. It's a lack

614
00:32:28.839 --> 00:32:32.119
of focus and concern for what people are feeling and

615
00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:36.960
thinking and just experiencing with your brand. So I think,

616
00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:40.079
to me, AI is a phenomenal enabler. But at the

617
00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:45.200
end of the day, the brands that really succeed are

618
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:48.599
and will continue to be the ones who have humans

619
00:32:49.480 --> 00:32:53.279
enabling the machines as opposed to the other way around.

620
00:32:54.440 --> 00:32:57.400
I think that it's so critically important that we don't

621
00:32:57.480 --> 00:32:59.960
lose touch with the fact that machines aren't talking in machines,

622
00:33:00.039 --> 00:33:01.000
they're talking to people.

623
00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:01.880
Yeah.

624
00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:03.920
Well, so two things on that one. That's the big,

625
00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:06.079
big reason why we while we launched the Gusto Now

626
00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:09.599
movement because that really is about doubling down in humanity

627
00:33:09.640 --> 00:33:14.880
and the agent of AI and using technology to extend people,

628
00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:18.400
not replace them. That's the whole idea of the movement.

629
00:33:18.759 --> 00:33:20.960
I completely agree with you, and you know, from a

630
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:26.640
from a brand perspective. Also is if everybody continues down

631
00:33:26.680 --> 00:33:29.440
this race, which you need to do because you need

632
00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:32.240
to have the business tools, so you need the technology.

633
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:35.279
But if everybody, if all the focus is on technology,

634
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:38.559
then everybody's also going to be the same. Right, that's

635
00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:40.799
going to be the same. It's that human element, right,

636
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:42.720
that separates Yeah, that was.

637
00:33:42.720 --> 00:33:44.200
The second piece I want to bring. That's that that's

638
00:33:44.200 --> 00:33:46.359
what makes you, that's that's what distinguishes you. And you

639
00:33:46.400 --> 00:33:48.720
also said too that you know when when you are

640
00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:51.400
just given technology to do with, you know, when things

641
00:33:51.400 --> 00:33:54.559
go wrong with with the with the product or service delivery,

642
00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:57.839
that what happens is the customer feels abandoned. And if

643
00:33:57.839 --> 00:33:59.759
that isn't a strong word for you, I don't know

644
00:33:59.799 --> 00:34:01.680
what is going to get your attention on that. Your

645
00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:05.200
customer feels abandoned. Wow, what do we do when we

646
00:34:05.240 --> 00:34:07.720
feel abandoned? Boy? You know there's a lot of energy

647
00:34:07.799 --> 00:34:10.320
that goes into that, and you're looking fast for somebody

648
00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:10.960
to replace that.

649
00:34:11.639 --> 00:34:14.599
Well, you know, and then percent and you're you know,

650
00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:17.639
in psychology and I'm not a psychologist, but you know,

651
00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:21.199
one of the things that you learn quickly is that

652
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:24.679
when someone likes you and has that share of heart

653
00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:26.639
with you, in that affinity, Yeah, if you ask, they'll

654
00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:28.760
probably say I really like that. You know you should

655
00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:31.320
try company EX or brand X, or meet so and

656
00:34:31.360 --> 00:34:35.079
so because they're nice people, they're cool, they matter, they're

657
00:34:35.079 --> 00:34:37.039
important to have meeting all the things we've talked about.

658
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:41.920
But when you get turned off you may not, you know,

659
00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:44.960
yell and scream about them when you love them, But

660
00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:46.920
boy do you yell and scream about them when you

661
00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:48.239
don't when they disappoint it?

662
00:34:48.440 --> 00:34:54.199
So right, yeah, big loud voice, there are too many people. Yes, indeed, Okay,

663
00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:56.639
let's grab our last break. I'm your host, doctor at

664
00:34:56.679 --> 00:34:59.320
least quotes. We're on the air with Warren Kornblum. He's

665
00:34:59.320 --> 00:35:01.880
the former Globe Chief Marketing Officer of Toys r US

666
00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:05.039
as well as many other leading international brands. He now

667
00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:07.559
advises leaders and brands on how to build trust and

668
00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:10.840
emotional connections, as well as on what he calls share

669
00:35:10.920 --> 00:35:13.519
of heart. We've been talking a good bit about various

670
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:15.599
ways that we can really develop brands in a way

671
00:35:15.599 --> 00:35:18.400
that creates that emotional stickiness. We're talking about that share

672
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:20.480
of heart. After the break, we're going to talk a

673
00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:23.360
little bit more about really how brands have lost their

674
00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:26.679
stance that we can learn something from those mistakes. We'll

675
00:35:26.679 --> 00:35:27.239
be right back.

676
00:35:42.519 --> 00:35:45.719
Doctor Elise Court says as a management consultant specializing in

677
00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:49.480
meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps

678
00:35:49.519 --> 00:35:52.920
companies visioneer for a greater purpose among stakeholders and develop

679
00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:57.760
purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,

680
00:35:57.800 --> 00:36:00.800
and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to

681
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:03.920
invite Elise to speak to your organization, please visit her

682
00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:07.239
at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

683
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:16.079
your employees working on purpose. This is Working on Purpose

684
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:19.440
with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or

685
00:36:19.480 --> 00:36:22.239
to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to

686
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:27.719
a lease A LISEE at elisecortes dot com. Now back

687
00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:29.079
to working on Purpose.

688
00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:36.320
Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to working

689
00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:39.239
on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Eleise Cortes. As you

690
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:41.639
know by now, this program is dedicated to empowering and

691
00:36:41.639 --> 00:36:44.320
inspiring you along your journey to realize more of your potential.

692
00:36:44.679 --> 00:36:47.199
I mentioned in my last book, The Great Revitalization, which

693
00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:49.719
contains those twenty two best processes to equip you to

694
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:53.199
provide that great what I call work workplace experience and

695
00:36:53.239 --> 00:36:58.480
destination workplace outcome. I gave you those twenty two practices

696
00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:00.639
you can actually take on my webs say. There's a

697
00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:03.239
pre download of a three page assessment that you can

698
00:37:03.639 --> 00:37:05.440
take and learn to see to what extent are you

699
00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:08.760
meeting those those kinds of demands. It's at gustodeshnow dot

700
00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:11.480
com if you are just now joining us. My guest

701
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:14.000
is Warren Cornblum. He's the author of Notes from the

702
00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:17.239
Brandstand Thoughts on emotional branding from someone who has fought

703
00:37:17.239 --> 00:37:21.079
for customer attention and won. So here I wanted to

704
00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:24.320
contrast a few things here, Warren. I just really appreciated

705
00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:27.480
how in your book you've contrasted some different brands and

706
00:37:27.519 --> 00:37:30.000
like what where one sort of dropped the ball and

707
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:33.239
another one did something right. And we've already talked about

708
00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:35.800
about Kodeact. But one thing I did want to say

709
00:37:35.800 --> 00:37:39.320
that really struck me about that that is that you

710
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:42.000
said that this wasn't a case of market filler, it

711
00:37:42.039 --> 00:37:46.280
was a brand paralyzed by its own success. Kodak died

712
00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:49.280
on a hill of hesitation. I think that is so powerful,

713
00:37:49.280 --> 00:37:51.400
and I know that's you know, it's you know, some

714
00:37:51.440 --> 00:37:53.880
of the most senior leaders. I mean, what a hard

715
00:37:53.960 --> 00:37:55.679
job is to know, you know, when to act, how

716
00:37:55.719 --> 00:37:57.960
fast act, which way to go. But that is such

717
00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:00.760
a sad story to see that they really, you know,

718
00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:02.800
they were paralyzed by their own success.

719
00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:06.920
Well, and I think you know, that happens more than

720
00:38:07.639 --> 00:38:10.280
it should and probably more than a lot of people

721
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:15.519
think you're not. In the stock market terms the investment

722
00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:18.000
they had, the you know, the too big to fail. Well,

723
00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:19.760
I don't think it's too big to fail from a

724
00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:22.719
financial perspective, although that obviously plays into it in a

725
00:38:22.760 --> 00:38:28.719
completely different context. But sometimes I think brands get very arrogant.

726
00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:30.760
They just think, well, it's going to stay the way

727
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:33.320
it is because that's always been the way it's been,

728
00:38:33.880 --> 00:38:35.960
and that's just not true because at the end of

729
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:39.280
the day, it's the people you're dealing with your customers,

730
00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:42.039
whether it's you know, business to business or business to

731
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:44.760
consumer or direct the consumer, it almost doesn't matter. It's

732
00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:47.199
the people that you're trying to appeal to that have

733
00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:50.360
the vote. You don't have a vote. You may have

734
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:52.320
a vote in the shareholder meeting or a board meeting,

735
00:38:52.360 --> 00:38:55.440
but that vote doesn't transcend to the amount of to

736
00:38:55.719 --> 00:38:58.920
the people who are dealing with you or patronizing you.

737
00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:03.840
So I think that that arrogance, because I would almost

738
00:39:03.920 --> 00:39:06.559
prefer that it be air against in blindness, because you

739
00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:09.199
hope that there's talented people at the top, but that

740
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:11.760
it's going to go away. It's just a trend, it's

741
00:39:11.800 --> 00:39:14.280
just a fad. Or these competitors aren't really going to

742
00:39:14.360 --> 00:39:19.599
keep making a dent in our share. That's just wrong.

743
00:39:19.639 --> 00:39:23.280
I mean, I think the most successful brands are constantly

744
00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:27.199
keeping their meaning, keeping their sense of purpose, but have

745
00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:31.559
an ability to adjust and adapt. I won't I was

746
00:39:31.559 --> 00:39:33.800
going to say reinvent, but I don't think reinvent is

747
00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:36.360
the right word. The right word is that they adapt

748
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:38.480
and they understand that. Again, it's not about them, It's

749
00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:40.079
about the people they're trying to deal with.

750
00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:42.639
For sure. For sure, which brings me to the next

751
00:39:42.639 --> 00:39:45.079
example that I wanted to talk about. I remember very

752
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:48.679
well when BlackBerry was it right, the BlackBerry you're if

753
00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:51.440
you you know, it really conveyed so much that you know,

754
00:39:51.519 --> 00:39:53.960
if you're holding BlackBerry, man, you must have a pretty

755
00:39:53.960 --> 00:39:56.320
important job or you know, have something important going on

756
00:39:56.320 --> 00:39:58.920
in your life. And I really appreciate how you were

757
00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:02.480
distinguishing black Berry and Apple. So you say, you know,

758
00:40:02.559 --> 00:40:06.679
Apple didn't just introduce the phone, it launched a lifestyle. Boy,

759
00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:09.280
if that's not a great perfect sentence to describe that,

760
00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:13.000
And you say, meanwhile, BlackBerry was slow to innovate and

761
00:40:13.079 --> 00:40:17.000
unify its software strategy, and it became a footnote. And

762
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:19.599
so I think this is a really good This is

763
00:40:19.599 --> 00:40:21.880
where you talk about the technological arrogance that can be

764
00:40:22.119 --> 00:40:25.360
more damaging than ignorance, but because it makes you think

765
00:40:25.400 --> 00:40:28.880
that you're right and so but in this case, the

766
00:40:28.920 --> 00:40:31.079
world proves that you're wrong. So I thought that that

767
00:40:31.159 --> 00:40:34.000
comparison of BlackBerry and Apple was really powerful.

768
00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:37.400
You know. The interesting thing is being from Toronto. Originally

769
00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:42.079
about where BlackBerry started was in a place called Kitchener Waterloo,

770
00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:45.199
which is about eighty or ninety miles from Toronto, and

771
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:50.320
BlackBerry is still there, and BlackBerry is still a phenomenally

772
00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:56.440
talented and gifted technology company, but it's lost almost entirely

773
00:40:56.480 --> 00:40:59.719
it's consumer presence. So here you are talking about we

774
00:40:59.760 --> 00:41:03.519
are from a science perspective and a technology perspective. We're

775
00:41:03.880 --> 00:41:06.280
you know, we're lights out, and governments use us because

776
00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:08.840
of security and all that kind of stuff. But consumers

777
00:41:09.119 --> 00:41:11.920
didn't care. What they wanted was they wanted something that

778
00:41:12.079 --> 00:41:15.400
was easy to use, that had a little bit of

779
00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:19.079
you know, some badge honor of having it that they

780
00:41:19.639 --> 00:41:23.519
could fulfill their lifestyle. I mean Apple, the iPhone when

781
00:41:23.559 --> 00:41:26.719
it first came out. We can remember the evolution I

782
00:41:26.719 --> 00:41:29.840
mean Steve Jobs and followed by the people. I think

783
00:41:29.880 --> 00:41:34.400
Apple's is a great example in many ways of founder

784
00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:37.840
and founder transferring the knowledge and then new organization keeping

785
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:40.719
up and hopefully this new organization, new leadership will do

786
00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:44.239
the same thing. But you know, Apple became a way

787
00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:46.159
of life and a style of life as opposed to

788
00:41:46.199 --> 00:41:51.199
a technology and BlackBerry stayed about technology. You still had

789
00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:53.920
people that were saying, I liked the tech, what's coming

790
00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:58.119
back today? I liked the tactile type keyboard on my

791
00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:01.719
on my BlackBerry, and you know iPhone doesn't have that.

792
00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:06.119
So what what iPhone had was iPhone had. It became

793
00:42:06.159 --> 00:42:09.599
a part of everybody's lives, as did the music. It did,

794
00:42:09.639 --> 00:42:12.480
the facetiming. I mean, they have just evolved in every

795
00:42:13.519 --> 00:42:16.360
step of their company's history because of one thing. They

796
00:42:16.360 --> 00:42:20.119
have a relentless focus on the people using their products

797
00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:24.840
and realize, I think it's not just about innovation. It's

798
00:42:24.880 --> 00:42:28.880
about innovating for the people. We're trying to make their

799
00:42:28.920 --> 00:42:30.960
lives better or be a part of their lives is

800
00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:33.840
probably a better way to put it. And I think BlackBerry, well,

801
00:42:33.880 --> 00:42:37.840
obviously really smart people still are they just one on one?

802
00:42:38.119 --> 00:42:40.679
Didn't make two, and it may be made like less

803
00:42:40.719 --> 00:42:44.440
than one when it came to consumer adoption, And you're

804
00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:47.440
right at the beginning everybody had a BlackBerry, and certainly

805
00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:50.480
every business had them. There were businesses that didn't allow

806
00:42:50.519 --> 00:42:53.559
you to use anything but a BlackBerry because of their technology,

807
00:42:53.840 --> 00:42:56.639
and they just lost sight of their users, right right.

808
00:42:57.400 --> 00:42:59.199
You talk about you know, bed Beth and beyond it, it

809
00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:01.679
was just you know, drowning and deals kind of thing.

810
00:43:01.960 --> 00:43:04.360
I remember that too, and sort of that goes back

811
00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:07.199
to a brand stand as you were saying, and I

812
00:43:07.239 --> 00:43:10.000
loved your chapter on clarifying your message and you say

813
00:43:10.119 --> 00:43:13.079
clear beats clever, and I really appreciated that. If you

814
00:43:13.079 --> 00:43:15.360
could speak a bit more to what you mean by

815
00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:17.559
clear over clever, Well.

816
00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:21.039
Sure, I think that people need to if again, I

817
00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:23.719
probably am almost boring on how I keep coming back

818
00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:25.639
to it, but it is such a fundamental belief of

819
00:43:25.679 --> 00:43:28.719
mine is it's about them, it's not about us. And

820
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:33.920
if you take that posture and believe that, and your

821
00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:39.039
whole thought process comes from that perspective, then really, in

822
00:43:39.079 --> 00:43:42.039
addition to putting together something that is appealing to them,

823
00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:43.760
that you have to be very clear about what you

824
00:43:43.840 --> 00:43:46.760
stand for and very clear of what they can expect

825
00:43:46.760 --> 00:43:49.800
from you, and very clear about why they should be

826
00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:53.480
loyal to you. If it's all about let's go out

827
00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:57.360
and hire some really creative person and have them come

828
00:43:57.440 --> 00:44:00.559
up with a catchy line, but the organization doesn't live

829
00:44:00.599 --> 00:44:03.559
to it, or it's just or in some cases it

830
00:44:03.719 --> 00:44:06.800
one one makes seven and it's just not what you

831
00:44:06.880 --> 00:44:10.440
stand for. You can be as clever as you like,

832
00:44:11.159 --> 00:44:14.000
but if it doesn't translate to the people catching it

833
00:44:14.119 --> 00:44:17.880
and receiving it, and it's not what they experience. And

834
00:44:18.119 --> 00:44:21.320
the experience point is not just the website or the ad.

835
00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:25.079
It's physically walking the stores. It's the experience of things

836
00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:28.159
we've talked about before. It's customer service. It's got to

837
00:44:28.199 --> 00:44:32.400
be you clearly have to stand for something, and yes

838
00:44:32.440 --> 00:44:34.559
you need to be able to communicate it, but just

839
00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:38.000
coming up with clever ways to say it doesn't mean

840
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:42.360
you're living it. And that is so bad term but

841
00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:46.280
see thruable by the consumer that it's almost a negative.

842
00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:48.760
So yeah, I think you know it's not to say

843
00:44:48.800 --> 00:44:50.280
go up and be dumb and come up with dumb

844
00:44:50.360 --> 00:44:54.840
campaigns or in any way to belittle the listener by

845
00:44:55.159 --> 00:44:58.199
not being clever, But it's saying, before you can be clever,

846
00:44:58.320 --> 00:44:59.119
you have to be clear.

847
00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:03.119
I loved what you said, Warren. You say clarity, on

848
00:45:03.199 --> 00:45:07.000
the other hand, as opposed to just being clever, allows

849
00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:11.280
your customer to understand your message immediately, and so cleverness

850
00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:14.440
might spark curiosity, but clarity builds confidence, and confidence is

851
00:45:14.480 --> 00:45:17.039
what drives people to act. And you also go on

852
00:45:17.079 --> 00:45:18.920
to say that you know you're really when you give

853
00:45:18.920 --> 00:45:23.440
them that confusion, then it produces friction, which pushes people away.

854
00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:26.480
So when you're more clear, you're actually what you're doing

855
00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:28.440
is you're showing your customer that you respect them, you

856
00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:31.320
respect their time, their attention. And I thought that was

857
00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:32.280
really powerful.

858
00:45:33.559 --> 00:45:36.920
Listen. I think that it's such a fundamental key to

859
00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:40.320
success for all brands and businesses, and you know, you know,

860
00:45:40.360 --> 00:45:42.360
honest to you, I think it's the same thing for

861
00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:46.400
us in life, right. I mean, there's so many through

862
00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:51.079
lines to good likable people, to good likable brands that

863
00:45:51.159 --> 00:45:53.400
you know that have you know what you're getting, you

864
00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:55.559
know what to expect, and you know how they value you.

865
00:45:55.920 --> 00:45:58.880
And I think that that's not in pathy, you know,

866
00:45:58.960 --> 00:46:03.639
positioning statements or one ad here or there. It's about

867
00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:08.199
how you live, breathe, acts, and respect every day.

868
00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:14.400
You have a wonderful chapter that's about the reinventors, the

869
00:46:14.400 --> 00:46:17.480
brands that adapt and endure. And I appreciated that because

870
00:46:17.480 --> 00:46:20.079
you were talking about, you know, how they've made tough

871
00:46:20.119 --> 00:46:22.519
decisions that they were forced to, but they didn't wait

872
00:46:22.519 --> 00:46:25.280
for disruption. They created it. They listened, they adapt, They

873
00:46:25.320 --> 00:46:29.079
protect their core while transforming the edges. And I thought

874
00:46:29.079 --> 00:46:31.400
that was also important, especially in these times when there's

875
00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:34.559
a lot of organizations that are just scared and trying

876
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:36.000
to find their way. If you could just speak a

877
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:37.880
little bit, we only have, like MEYDI, a minute or

878
00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:39.960
so for you to speak to that, if you would.

879
00:46:39.800 --> 00:46:44.599
Sure, I think that it's really important again the customer focus.

880
00:46:44.679 --> 00:46:48.280
I mean three of the examples I used, unfortunately were

881
00:46:48.320 --> 00:46:50.280
not unfortunately because of where I was, two of them

882
00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:51.880
come out of the toy industry. But I think they're

883
00:46:51.880 --> 00:46:56.960
great examples of reinvention. I mean, Barbie lifestyle changed right right,

884
00:46:57.079 --> 00:46:59.599
it's don't play with dolls anymore. But they found a

885
00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:01.760
way to get relevant and we don't. We're not going

886
00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:03.519
to get to it in a minute but it wasn't

887
00:47:03.519 --> 00:47:05.920
because of the movie. That was part of it. But

888
00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:09.159
they found a way to make themselves relevant to young

889
00:47:09.239 --> 00:47:12.559
ladies and not just young ladies anymore. And I think,

890
00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:14.000
you know, look at we talked about it a little

891
00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:16.760
bit briefly earlier. I mean crocs. Crocs were these ugly

892
00:47:16.840 --> 00:47:19.920
things that only doctors wore, and now they become like

893
00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:22.679
kind of a part of life. And they found a

894
00:47:22.679 --> 00:47:25.840
way to reinvent themselves. But by what they do, their purpose,

895
00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:29.079
their meaning, yes, and they never changed their style. They

896
00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:33.559
just reinvented themselves right to make themselves much more relevant today.

897
00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:37.079
And probably my favorite of them all is Lego, I

898
00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:40.960
mean from the Toypisse. I mean Lego. Lego shouldn't exist.

899
00:47:41.360 --> 00:47:43.639
It just shouldn't exist if it was just a building

900
00:47:43.679 --> 00:47:47.000
block company, right, I mean every kid had them, but

901
00:47:47.559 --> 00:47:50.599
there's no reason in today's world where everything's gone online

902
00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:53.280
and into digital and all that for Lego. Well, but

903
00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:55.920
Lego found a way to live in both worlds. They've

904
00:47:55.920 --> 00:47:58.360
done a magnificent job being there's there's more and more

905
00:47:58.400 --> 00:48:01.599
examples of it. But that, I mean, reinvention is such

906
00:48:01.599 --> 00:48:04.320
an important thing. It's well, you either reinvent or you die.

907
00:48:04.360 --> 00:48:06.079
Right right, right right, And that's really what I want

908
00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:08.159
and wanted to finish with. Is it's just so important

909
00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:10.880
that we recognize that. I do want to give you

910
00:48:10.960 --> 00:48:13.280
a chance to say, you know how you want to

911
00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:15.679
close the conversation and say thirty seconds or so before

912
00:48:15.679 --> 00:48:17.039
we go our separate ways.

913
00:48:17.800 --> 00:48:19.480
Well, first of all, thank you for having me. I

914
00:48:19.519 --> 00:48:25.679
think that your passion for organizational health and organizational passion

915
00:48:26.119 --> 00:48:29.039
and purpose is so analogous to some of the things

916
00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:31.599
I do. I'm more external facing, but if I don't,

917
00:48:32.119 --> 00:48:33.679
you know, in the situations I deal with, if you

918
00:48:33.719 --> 00:48:38.320
don't have the internal alignment, the internal belief, the external

919
00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:42.920
doesn't matter. So I just hope that the biggest compliment

920
00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:45.800
I get about the book from people who are in

921
00:48:45.840 --> 00:48:47.840
my life is that they say, I felt like you

922
00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:49.960
were talking to me, as opposed to yes, I didn't.

923
00:48:50.000 --> 00:48:51.920
I never set out to write a textbook. This is

924
00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:56.320
not a marketing textbook. It's about someone who loves brands

925
00:48:57.159 --> 00:48:59.840
for people who love brands and are just fascinated by it.

926
00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:02.320
If they are, I hope they'll read it. And you know,

927
00:49:02.679 --> 00:49:04.840
I a slute you for what you do. And I

928
00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:06.480
don't think what we do Is that different? Is just

929
00:49:06.519 --> 00:49:08.360
a little bit of a different Maybe we walk in

930
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:10.320
a different door, but we're going into the same building.

931
00:49:10.599 --> 00:49:13.559
I got that from your book and Warren, I really

932
00:49:13.639 --> 00:49:15.599
enjoyed reading your book. I'm so grateful to know you,

933
00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:17.159
to be connected with you and get to share with

934
00:49:17.199 --> 00:49:19.480
my listeners around the globe. Thank you for being you

935
00:49:19.559 --> 00:49:20.480
and sharing your wisdom.

936
00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:23.280
Thank you for having me most welcome.

937
00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:27.400
Listeners and viewers. You're want to learn more about Warren Kornbloom,

938
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the work that he does advising leaders and brands on

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how to build trust and emotional connections, and his book

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notes from the brandstand, you can start by visiting him

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at shareoheart dot com. Just like we've been talking about

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throughout the show. Last week, if you missed the live show,

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you can always catch up you recorded to podcast. We

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were on air with Rabbi doctor Bahuk Halev talking about

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the work he does in men's groups helping them heal

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and come home to themselves, and in his book The

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Guy in the Glass Six Questions to See the Man

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You Were Meant to Be. It was an incredibly real,

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raw and powerful conversation where we started off with the

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incredibly tragic statistic that a man takes his life every

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thirteen minutes, and that's the work that he's doing to

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help be able to help men heal so that they

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don't actually take their own lives. Very very powerful conversation.

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Next week will be on the air with Jason Wilde,

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one of the authors of Genius at Scale, How Great

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Leaders Drive Innovation. See you then, and let's continue leaning

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in and discovering how to elevate your operating system as

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a leader to create destination workplaces where legendary business takes place.

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Let's work on Purpose.

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We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to

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tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,

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each week on W four C. Why Together we'll create

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a world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires and passion performance,

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and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning

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and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work on Purpose.