Brand with Backbone: Why Emotional Connection Drives Loyalty

0:00 The topics and opinions express in the following show are solely those of the hosts and their guests and not those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsements radio show, programs, services, or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability explicit or implies shall be extended to W FOURCY Radio or it's employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W FOURCY Radio. What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their highest potential. Business can be such a force for good in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we all want Working on Purpose. Now, here's your host, doctor Elise Cortez.

1:05 Welcome back to the Working on Purpose program, which has been brought to you with passion and pride since February of twenty fifteen. Thanks for tuning in this week. Great to have you. I'm your host, doctor Release Cortes. Most leaders are sitting on untapped human energy, and I help them unlock it. I'm an organizational psychologist, logotherapist, workforce advisor and the founder of the Gusto Now movement. But the title I live by is much simpler. I traffic and energy, not the surface level kind of motivation or another engagement initiative, but the deeper force what I call Gusto, the life force for performance that drives commitment, perseverance, and genuine ownership of a shared mission in the clients we serve. You can learn more abo us and how we can work together at Gusto dashnow dot com, or visit my personal site a Leascortes dot com for information on my speaking and my books with us Today is Warren Kornblum, the former global chief marketing officer of Toys r US as well as other leading international brands, and the author of Notes from the randstand thoughts on emotional branding from someone who has fought for customer attention and one He now advises leaders and brands on how to build trust and emotional connection, as well as on what he calls share of Heart. We'll be talking about several of the ideas he puts forth in this book on creating an emotional brand that unites you with your customer. He joined us today from Palm Beach, Florida, where it is storming. Warren, welcome to working on purpose.

2:22 Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. And hopefully mother and nature will cooperate. Yeah. I wanted to say that just in case you go off for a bit. So here is this beautiful book you put into the world. I always like to celebrate this, Warren, because especially you, being a man, I like to say that what you did in putting forth this book is actually harder than it is to bring a new life into the world that I've done both, so I can tell you it's true. Congratulations. So let's open if we can, Since our listeners and viewers aren't disacquainted with you as I am, if you would just sketch your background briefly and how it was that you chose to work in branding. Why this? Why not accounting? For gosh sakes, well, probably my math wasn't good enough for the accounting side. But no. I was born in Toronto and I'm Canadian. Been in the United States now for about thirty years, and to be honest, I think that it was a calling for me. I just have always been fascinated by business, by brands, by people's reaction to them. I started out in the advertising business, spent the first part of my career running my own aid. Well, I didn't started my own agency, but started in advertising as a copywriter actually, then went to business school and then went into the advertising world. At some point in the late nineties, my agency was bought and I was moved to New York as part of that. In an earnout, as often happens to people when they sell their company, have to go to work for the acquirers. And as

3:54 an entrepreneurial advertising agency person who was very much into the nitty gritty of working with clients and things like that, I was not as comfortable sitting in a corner office, being more of an executive. I wanted to get into the trenches and work with clients, work with the creative teams. When the three years was up, quickly I decided that it wasn't for me to be in that environment and I was recruited, as you mentioned in my introduction, to be the first global Chief marketing Officer of Toys r US, which in those days was dealing with the Amazon coming on strong, Walmart getting into the toy category, Internet really coming on strong, and they decided that they needed someone else to take a look at their marketing strategy. So I did that and I was there until when it was a public company, until it sold to private equity in two thousand and six, and since then I've been advising clients, but brands have just always been something that fascinated me that I think I was good at and I think most of all, I enjoy the relationships, both with clients as well as with customers. So that's how I got there.

5:00 Well, as we were talking before we got on air, I have fond memories of Toys r US of course, shopping, you know, mostly for my daughter to get toys, and I think, you know, back to your concept or the emotional connection. I think part of the reason I loved Toys r US and maybe others do as well, is when you walk into the store, it was like okay to be a kid again yourself. Sadly, yeah, you know, I think that the biggest thing I still get it. I left in two thousand and six, so it's been twenty years, and people still automatically when they know of my background and my time there, want to talk about those days, want to talk about their memories of Toys r Us and frankly in terms of emotional connection. When I'm talking to them, and I'm sure this is what you go through too, you almost think about it in human terms. It's almost like it was a friend and it was about the magic of being a child. And you know, one of the first things I did when I got there, because I was a Toys r Us kid too, and one of the first things I did when I got there is I said, you know, we have to give people an ability to kind of celebrate emotionally the brand that they love. There were flaws, the stores were not perfect, there were lots of issues. Our internet wasn't that great. But at the end of the day, what we did, and how long the company had been doing it was where the magic was.

6:19 And you know, one of the first things I did was two simple things. They weren't rocket science, they just made perfect sense to me. One is, for whatever reason they had stopped using which you will remember the famous song that people mostly can still sing today. I don't want to grow up. I'm a Toys r Us kid. Yeah, I do generational thing, but for whatever reason, they had stopped using it for a while, so we brought that back. And then the other thing was Jeffrey the Giraffe, who was from the day Charles Lazarus founded the company, you know, probably over almost one hundred years ago. Now it was a two dimensional giraffe. But I said, you know, Jeffries kind of like grandparents had grown up on him, were the first generation, parents were the next generation, and the kids today. So we brought them back in a contemporary way.

7:05 But I thought it was really important that those links to the heart of Toys r Us, which I think, in truth was almost better than the reality of it. But that was what the connection was with people, and I think it's endured time. So yeah, they were great years. I really enjoy those, but it is it is surprising to me how often people, I mean, my advertising career, my consulting career, my speaking career, everybody inevitably the first question is Toys r Us And I love that, you know, it's a big part of my life too. Such a wonderful thing to get to experience. So the reas One of the reasons I'm an organizational psychologist and not say a clinical psychologist, is because I believe in the wonder and the power and the dignity and the nobility of work to be an important part of our lives, and I wanted to. I want it to be better for people. For a lot of people it isn't, and I'm out that's part of our mission is to help make this a better experience for them. So before we go on or I think it would be important for our listeners and viewers and be of service to them if you gave us your idea of what is a brand?

8:07 What do we mean by brand? Well, I think that you know, stores have names or brands. You know, soaps have names, and cars have names. But at the end of the day, a brand, I think elevates beyond just name and service and commodity. It becomes kind of the it's almost overused, but it becomes kind of the DNA or the personality of the business. It's when you get it right. The brand is everything that the experience, the actual transactional side of the business, the hiring of the business. I mean, I always say to everybody that I talk to, the brand isn't owned by the CEO or the shareholders of the founders it is.

8:50 But the best brands are owned by everybody top to bottom and bottom to top in an organization, and most importantly, when you get it right, their own either people who shop or do or do business with that company. It's almost like human personality and business brand are analogous in many ways. In my mind, it's kind of what that entity stands for. Obviously, some businesses don't have brands because all they are is they you know, they are commodity providers and transaction based. But when you really start to build internal loyalty culture, which I know is true to you know, near and dear to your heart, that's what a brand is. A brand is everything that kind of surrounds the essence of a business. Wonderful.

9:41 Okay, So let's compare in contrastor you do this beautifully in the twenty seven I think it is chapters of your book. But I really appreciate that you compare contrast. And so if we talk about some of the brands that have gone away, so you know, Kodak, sharper Image, Radio Shack, Blockbuster, many others are examples that they were one stominant companies that failed, you say, because their brands, the brand stands, didn't adapt to changing times, because they lost touch with their audiences. If you could say a little bit more about that, and then I want to contrast the ones that have kind of stuck around. Sure, I think that two things happen. One is is that I think brands get in their own way, which is part of some of those examples you used, and I think also circumstances in the market change and they don't know how to get out of that way. Yes, in the case for example of Kodak, which is probably a classic one, a lot of people don't realize that Kodak was the first adopter of digital technology and the higher ups in the organization somewhere decided, well, we can't do that because if we do that, we're not going to sell film. Well, that decision may meant that you weren't only not going to sell film, you were probably positioning yourself almost right out of business. Because people, the consumer, who are the customer, in my mind, is the most important thing in any equation of business and customers were evolving, and customers were looking to you know, digital cameras in those days, and then quickly that transitions, that transition through Steve Jobs in the main terms of the phone and

11:14 Kodak just failed to move with the times. They didn't feel failed to recognize it because they invented or were on the cosual camera. They just decided that they were. You know, it's almost like the too big to fail. Their business was not going to be challenged by technology. Well, you know, twenty years later more than that now, as you go through those conversations, technology is going to change businesses. It's changing them every day and continue to. I think in terms of sharper Image, it's probably the second image second, the second example that I gave where they just lost relevance. They were the place that used to go for new innovation and there weren't the other options that you could do as fast and as easily through online through search on your phones. And I think sharper Image just didn't move with the times and didn't realize that their customer wanted a different way to shop. It wasn't so much that they didn't have unique products. I think they did, it was a matter that they weren't doing it in a way that the consumer in those days wanted, and other options appeared, and they didn't keep their edge on the innovation cycle.

12:25 Interesting that they didn't keep their sharper image veract. And we'll talk about this later, but that really speaks to this kind. They need to constantly listen to your to your customers and hear and understand them their needs, where they're going, et cetera, which you're describing as is really lacking there. As you know, I mean, thank you for having spent some time with the book, but that's one of the things that I almost felt when I was reading writing it, that almost felt I said too many times, but I don't think I can say them enough times, which is listening is the most important side of communicating it truly is. And if you know one on one one thing. But even when you're talking to millions, you need to understand what they're saying and listen to them because it's about them.

13:06 It's you have no God given right to do business right right right right. Well, so here we are. We've started off by talking about some of these these well known brands that failed. I want to be able to situate because this gets to your world those that they might be small but resourceful teams with even fewer resources, but somehow they manage to achieve extraordinary success because they understand one thing. As you say, brands live and die in the human heart. Yes, yeah, I one hundred percent agree with that. It's when you talk about people who are loyal to a brand. Back to the Toys r Us story, I mean, it's almost like they're talking about a friend. It's almost like they've lost when they go away. It's like they've lost somebody when they disappoint you, which because its almost as if a friend disappointed you. And why is that. It's because they're not living on you know, on their Visa MasterCard or Amex card. They're living with the brand and in their heart, and they have expectations of the brand, which is why they have loyalty to it.

14:05 M So, you know, I think it was for me, as I said to you Warrent, that this your book really helped reinforce some of the work that we do in culture transformation and culture development around purpose, especially and I wanted to situate. You said, over time, there are three things became very evident for you in your career. You say, one, marketing is about selling, while branding concentrates on building connections. I think that was really powerful. Two, the best brands prioritize building trust instead of just grabbing attention. Also powerful. And then finally, ultimately, you say, you can't build a lasting brand unless it resonates with people and evolves with them. I thought that was so critical in the Codac thing are not Codeca sharp brimage thing was just a perfect example of that.

14:49 Yeah, and I think all three are true, and if there's a through line to them, it really is it's about the customer. It's not about us, right, I mean as the brand people or the people running businesses. Obviously it's you know, we're an important part of it. But if you lose touch with, or lose sight of, or stop fulfilling the expectations and aspirations of your customer, you're you know, there's a train at the end, there's a light at the end of the tunnel, en it probably is a train. So yeah, I mean the good news. I think as I tend to humanize a lot of this, and whenever I think about a customer, I always almost put it into human terms. Realizing of course they're not one person, but there is there's like modeling that goes on, and understanding why they want to be loyal to you, why they want to you know, what they want from your category, I think is key to providing it. And then it's not about lip servers. You can't just say it and then it is I think that you have to live it. You have to make sure the entire organization and every touch point that people have with you is consist is clear, and that they all value the customer because if you don't, they have lots of options and lots of alternatives, and they're not going to be loyal to you and you're not going to touch their heart right right.

16:15 Well, on that note, let's grab our first break and let our listeners and viewers reflect on some of the things we've talked about so far. I'm your host, doctor Earles Cortes. We've been on the air with Warren Kornblum. He's the former global Chief Marketing Officer of Toys r US as well as other leading international brands. He now advises leaders and brands on how to build trust and emotional connections, as well as on what he calls share of heart, which is what we've been largely talking about here in the beginning. Here, we've been talking about just the foundations of what makes for branding, why is it important, and how do we know it's working. After the break, we're going to start getting into that a brand needs a stand and that comes from the idea of conviction, and we'll showcase Nike's just do it to start that process. We'll be right back.

17:10 Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Elise Alise at elisecortes dot com. Now back to working on purpose.

18:02 Thanks for saying with us and welcome back to Working on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as I am dedicated to help them create a world where organizations thrive because they're people thrive, and we're led by inspirational leaders that help them find and contribute their greatness, and we do business that better is the world. I keep researching and writing my own books, so one of my latest came out. It's called The Great Revitalization. How activating meaning and purpose can radically enliven your business And in order to help leaders understand today's very discerning workforce, what do they want to need from you to give their best and want to stick around? And then I provide you twenty two best practices to equip you to provide that for them through your leadership and your culture. You can find my books on Amazon or my personal site at last Quortes dot com if you are just now joining us. My guest is Warren Cornblum. He's the author of Notes from the Brandstand Thoughts on emotional branding from someone who has fought for customer attention and won. So it's really kind of hard not to have a conversation about really great branding and not talk about Nike. But and I have gotten the chance to do some work with Nike, which is it's an amazing organization. Talk about a brand that just really really lives. I mean, it really is exceptional, performance oriented, but also celebrates everyone's an athlete kind of thing. But in one of your chapters you talk about how every brand needs a stand and how that comes from conviction.

19:20 Yes, I think, and I think Nike is a good example. There are thankfully lots of them, but Nike certainly is one that people pretty much everybody is aware of and has been touched by and has had them on their feet or on their bodies. And I think it goes back to the days when Phil Knight and his team early on realized that to go from just being a shoe provider to athletes, that what they really needed to do is find a way to get the everyday person, be they recreational, be they walkers, be they joggers, or be they athletes, to embrace Nike as a way of life and a part of their lives in addition to just being a shoe provider. You know, when you think about it, some of the things that they did could easily have pigeonholed them into They're only good for me if I'm really good at that sport, if I'm you know, off, if I could jump like Michael Jordan, or I can you know, on and on and on, and the brilliance of that famous campaign Just do It was saying to people you can do it too. I mean, it's about a lifestyle. It's about being inclusive. It's about sharing in the in what we do and how we do it and how we live. And you know, I think I often say that the three cornerstones everybody always talks about which are true about well being are obviously fitness, diet,

20:52 and sleep. And I actually was in two of those businesses because sleep as well. But when you think about it in the context of Nike and fitness and wellness, they were saying to everyday people, we can get you there, and it's not about buying the shoe. It's about embracing the lifestyle and our brand and everything we stand for can help you get there because it's about you, the consumer, not so much about us sitting in a boardroom and trying to convince you to do something you're not comfortable with. I really appreciate that to me, that's you know, it speaks to the idea of aspiration you mentioned before, what are your customers aspiring for? Why I'm starting to be an athlete too? Right? And I appreciate in that same chapter you also talk about, you know, Sephora, you also talk about with Death, which I didn't really know what that was all about. I see there are vans all over the place. But what you also said that was so interesting is you said these brands aren't just selling products, they're selling belief systems.

21:50 Which I think is absolutely true. I mean, you know, if Nike was all about shoes, or energy drinks were all just about drinking a drink and whatever happens, or Sephora was just about you know, being a supermodel, well that's exclusive. That's not inclusive. And where these brands I think have been successful is they found a way to do a giant hug to a huge consumer group that says you belong here. You know. Sephora did it by not being polarizing to a stereotype of women who could shop in their stores. They were about everybody. They were about different looks, different races, different you know. Afford well, affordability was always kind of a platform for them, and I think the same thing with Nike. I mean Nike it is it's a group hug for everybody in the world who wants to have comfort and get out there and do things. And also yeah, also you know, be kind of stylish about it too. I mean if they were ugly, I don't know that it would work. Although you probably know, one of the things or one of the companies I talk about a little bit in the book that's probably for a later conversation is crocs. I mean those things were ugly when they fascinate. Yeah, they found a way to go from ugly to cool. Yea, why because they gave their consumers. It's probably a very simplistic way to put it, but you know, that big hug to your consumer and to your organization that's bringing

23:22 you to the consumers really important. I really like how you say that, you know that extending that big hug, and don't we all need a hug for cost sakes, you know? Okay, So we would be remiss, completely worried if we didn't talk about the chapter you have, which is entitled Purpose is Essential, and it's the idea of purpose drives relevance and I really aligned with this because it's very much the work that we do around culture and leadership is you say that purpose is a system, not a statement, and so you say, you know, a true brand purpose isn't something you invent in a workshop. It's not a headline, a presentation, or a marketing asset. It's the core focus of your business. The reason why decisions are made, the way to are is how you hire, how you prioritize, what fuels innovation, shapes culture, and it enhances customer experience. It's embedded, not announced.

24:08 That's the very work that we do too. Again, I saw so many of those strong parallels between branding purpose and culture purpose that we work with. Well, and I think I'm glad to hear that because I think it's essential and I think business leaders, brand people and anybody who's just fascinated by brands need to understand that that's a huge difference, that it's not just about what you say, particularly in the world we live in today. I mean, anybody can go out and buy awareness. Things used to cost hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars in terms of marketing budgets, so you could get messages out there it's not like that anymore. Everybody has instant access to information, instant access to both good news and bad news from a business perspective as well as just life in general. And I think that organizations who just say, well, you know, wouldn't it be cool if we took a stand on this and we're just going to tell people about it, Well, today's consumers are so it's so easy to check things out. It's so easy to do that litmus test of is this truth or is this marketing, which is where the marketing selling versus brand being the essence of a business. I think when you talk about purpose, it's that you can to say, oh, we're charitable and we're going to write a check for one hundred thousand dollars to some company who cares. I think the consumer sets through that when you are a company that lives it, eats it, breathes it, top to

25:39 bottom and bottom the top. Everybody in the organization is that way, and your customers embrace it and share the purpose of the business, then I think you transcend it just being a commodity. You know. Again, I think that far too much lip service is given to purpose and not anywhere near enough just commitment and action one. Hundred percent, Yeah, one hundred percent. And in our work, you know, WAREN, we really help organizations to help the help the whole team get aligned via their head or understanding of the purpose their heart. How does how is it connected to their own sense of purpose in life and their values? How does it extend that? And then their hands? What do they actually do? How do they make the decisions? You know how you talk about you know, four seasons empowering the team to be able to make decisions, you know, on the spot, to be able to take care of customers because they know what the purpose of the organization is and they're empowered to do that. And that's how we do that. So that because I the thing that I really get disgusted with is, as you say, purpose has become just you know, it's all over the place, but yet it means nothing. So when you hear things like pancakes on purpose or tires on purpose, you just want to throw up.

26:47 You know, well, I think, I just I think your work is so important in that because you can see it when I go into a company as an advisor, and I tend to be you know, in the as much as I'd like to permeate the entire organization. I'm one person, so sometimes it's hard to but when you're in like the C suite and you're talking to people, you could just see that when people really have a strong sense of purpose, both as individuals as well as in business, it's just you're kind of walking on air. You're just happy to go into work. You understand what your purpose is and how the organization has relevance to the people that they're trying to talk to. And if that's not embraced, which is where I think your work probably comes in in spades. If it's not embraced, then it just is so see through that it's ridiculous and it doesn't work. It almost is a detriment if you talk about being an organization with purpose and you don't live it.

27:41 Oh no, it's a terrible detriment. I've had many, many conversations with people who are a part of those organizations. It's actually, you know, something that's going to shorten your life on some level. It's that detrimental. But that's the energy piece that we're talking about. When we can connect that, now we've lifted the energy, which allows you to do. So much more exactly. That's what's why we're seeing we traffic and energy. But so we have we talked about purpose. Now, of course I can't let you go without talking about meaning, because those are our two you know pillars, really purpose and meaning. And so you go on to say that you say build meaning, not just attention meaning Foster's loyalty. So let's talk about what you mean by that. Well, I think that you know, as I said earlier, anybody can sort of grab attention, but I think grabbing meaning a connection, a piece of someone's uh part, I guess yes, as opposed to just their wallets is so important.

28:38 And you do that by having relevance to people, by having meaning to people, by standing for something, by transcending just the purchase, by you know, doing what you say and saying what you do, but doing but not saying what you do and then not doing it right. And I think that nobody has a kind of God given right to exist. There are so many options out there that consumers of all different categories can sense when a company has meaning, And very importantly, I don't think a brand or a company can have meaning unless it's also something that's embraced internally. One of the quick exercises I always do that is as intellectual as you are and learn it. You may think it's silly, but I always walk in and one of the first things I do, inevitably, in every waiting room I've ever gone into, there's the mission statement somewhere. Sometimes it's hidden, sometimes it's not, so I'll look at it and I'll read it, and then I start talking to people in the organization about it, you know, and you can see. I mean, you get one of three basic reactions. One is you get a blank stare, which is scary. Two is you get, which I think is almost equally scary, You get the exact reciting of what those points are on the statement with no personal input. Three you get that wonderful occasion where people are energized and sort of say it in their own words, but they know what the meaning of the businesses and they know what the purpose of the business is.

30:02 Those are the that's where you have to get to. In my mind, I completely we do something very similar. Warren, Yes, absolutely, and it's it's always fascinating to us. Okay, so I really love to this, especially here we are on the age of AI and automation everywhere you have a chapter about, you know, human brands when connection is the advantage, and this is where you're really talking about how you know, technology is great for being able to solve those routine problems and automate wait times and you know, but technology can't feel. And so when the stakes are high emotionally, when a customer is frustrated, anxious, or hurt, what the need most isn't efficiency, it's connection. And that's when you want the human to be involved. And that's definitely part of what we're doing too, is doubling down on humanity in the age of technology. So I thought that that was an important distinction, especially when building a brand, that you're inserting the human piece here, especially when it's really important.

30:54 And I think it's at both ends of the of the spectrum, right. I think it's it's first, everybody is racing. Everybody is i know, racing to get you know, AI and the budgets and this and that and who's there going to replace and what's it going to do. But if there's not some human component to what is AI enabling us for, what are we trying to get out of it? And where does it impact the people we're trying to speak with. Then I think you lose something. So I think it's two sides. One is is to me, AI is is a huge enabler. I mean, I remember when I was running brands, if I wanted to get a kind of a sense of work, our customers were So what did you do? You hired a research company.

31:42 You can do focus groups, then usage, an attitude surveys, whatever, and then you waited three months for the results to come back. You don't have to wait three minutes anymore. You can. You know, you have real time information that's hugely enabling in the right hands. On the other side, I'd say two things quickly. One is that to your point, machines don't have a heart, at least not now, and hopefully I will not in my lifetime. But so you know, people rebel when they feel like they're talking to a machine or yeah, or even when they're talking to a programmatic you know, call center somewhere who's obviously reading from a stript and wants to get you off the phone as fast as they can. I mean, that's not AI, but it's kind of the same thing. It's a lack of focus and concern for what people are feeling and thinking and just experiencing with your brand. So I think, to me, AI is a phenomenal enabler. But at the end of the day, the brands that really succeed are and will continue to be the ones who have humans enabling the machines as opposed to the other way around.

32:54 I think that it's so critically important that we don't lose touch with the fact that machines aren't talking in machines, they're talking to people. Yeah. Well, so two things on that one. That's the big, big reason why we while we launched the Gusto Now movement because that really is about doubling down in humanity and the agent of AI and using technology to extend people, not replace them. That's the whole idea of the movement. I completely agree with you, and you know, from a from a brand perspective. Also is if everybody continues down this race, which you need to do because you need to have the business tools, so you need the technology. But if everybody, if all the focus is on technology, then everybody's also going to be the same. Right, that's going to be the same. It's that human element, right, that separates Yeah, that was.

33:42 The second piece I want to bring. That's that that's what makes you, that's that's what distinguishes you. And you also said too that you know when when you are just given technology to do with, you know, when things go wrong with with the with the product or service delivery, that what happens is the customer feels abandoned. And if that isn't a strong word for you, I don't know what is going to get your attention on that. Your customer feels abandoned. Wow, what do we do when we feel abandoned? Boy? You know there's a lot of energy that goes into that, and you're looking fast for somebody to replace that. Well, you know, and then percent and you're you know, in psychology and I'm not a psychologist, but you know, one of the things that you learn quickly is that when someone likes you and has that share of heart with you, in that affinity, Yeah, if you ask, they'll probably say I really like that. You know you should try company EX or brand X, or meet so and so because they're nice people, they're cool, they matter, they're important to have meeting all the things we've talked about.

34:37 But when you get turned off you may not, you know, yell and scream about them when you love them, But boy do you yell and scream about them when you don't when they disappoint it? So right, yeah, big loud voice, there are too many people. Yes, indeed, Okay, let's grab our last break. I'm your host, doctor at least quotes. We're on the air with Warren Kornblum. He's the former Globe Chief Marketing Officer of Toys r US as well as many other leading international brands. He now advises leaders and brands on how to build trust and emotional connections, as well as on what he calls share of heart. We've been talking a good bit about various ways that we can really develop brands in a way that creates that emotional stickiness. We're talking about that share of heart. After the break, we're going to talk a little bit more about really how brands have lost their stance that we can learn something from those mistakes. We'll be right back.

35:42 Doctor Elise Court says as a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies visioneer for a greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite Elise to speak to your organization, please visit her at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your employees working on purpose. This is Working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to a lease A LISEE at elisecortes dot com. Now back to working on Purpose.

36:34 Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to working on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Eleise Cortes. As you know by now, this program is dedicated to empowering and inspiring you along your journey to realize more of your potential. I mentioned in my last book, The Great Revitalization, which contains those twenty two best processes to equip you to provide that great what I call work workplace experience and destination workplace outcome. I gave you those twenty two practices you can actually take on my webs say. There's a pre download of a three page assessment that you can take and learn to see to what extent are you meeting those those kinds of demands. It's at gustodeshnow dot com if you are just now joining us. My guest is Warren Cornblum. He's the author of Notes from the Brandstand Thoughts on emotional branding from someone who has fought for customer attention and won. So here I wanted to contrast a few things here, Warren. I just really appreciated how in your book you've contrasted some different brands and like what where one sort of dropped the ball and another one did something right. And we've already talked about about Kodeact. But one thing I did want to say that really struck me about that that is that you said that this wasn't a case of market filler, it was a brand paralyzed by its own success. Kodak died on a hill of hesitation. I think that is so powerful, and I know that's you know, it's you know, some of the most senior leaders. I mean, what a hard job is to know, you know, when to act, how fast act, which way to go. But that is such a sad story to see that they really, you know, they were paralyzed by their own success.

38:04 Well, and I think you know, that happens more than it should and probably more than a lot of people think you're not. In the stock market terms the investment they had, the you know, the too big to fail. Well, I don't think it's too big to fail from a financial perspective, although that obviously plays into it in a completely different context. But sometimes I think brands get very arrogant. They just think, well, it's going to stay the way it is because that's always been the way it's been, and that's just not true because at the end of the day, it's the people you're dealing with your customers, whether it's you know, business to business or business to consumer or direct the consumer, it almost doesn't matter. It's the people that you're trying to appeal to that have the vote. You don't have a vote. You may have a vote in the shareholder meeting or a board meeting, but that vote doesn't transcend to the amount of to the people who are dealing with you or patronizing you.

38:59 So I think that that arrogance, because I would almost prefer that it be air against in blindness, because you hope that there's talented people at the top, but that it's going to go away. It's just a trend, it's just a fad. Or these competitors aren't really going to keep making a dent in our share. That's just wrong. I mean, I think the most successful brands are constantly keeping their meaning, keeping their sense of purpose, but have an ability to adjust and adapt. I won't I was going to say reinvent, but I don't think reinvent is the right word. The right word is that they adapt and they understand that. Again, it's not about them, It's about the people they're trying to deal with.

39:40 For sure. For sure, which brings me to the next example that I wanted to talk about. I remember very well when BlackBerry was it right, the BlackBerry you're if you you know, it really conveyed so much that you know, if you're holding BlackBerry, man, you must have a pretty important job or you know, have something important going on in your life. And I really appreciate how you were distinguishing black Berry and Apple. So you say, you know, Apple didn't just introduce the phone, it launched a lifestyle. Boy, if that's not a great perfect sentence to describe that, And you say, meanwhile, BlackBerry was slow to innovate and unify its software strategy, and it became a footnote. And so I think this is a really good This is where you talk about the technological arrogance that can be more damaging than ignorance, but because it makes you think that you're right and so but in this case, the world proves that you're wrong. So I thought that that comparison of BlackBerry and Apple was really powerful.

40:34 You know. The interesting thing is being from Toronto. Originally about where BlackBerry started was in a place called Kitchener Waterloo, which is about eighty or ninety miles from Toronto, and BlackBerry is still there, and BlackBerry is still a phenomenally talented and gifted technology company, but it's lost almost entirely it's consumer presence. So here you are talking about we are from a science perspective and a technology perspective. We're you know, we're lights out, and governments use us because of security and all that kind of stuff. But consumers didn't care. What they wanted was they wanted something that was easy to use, that had a little bit of you know, some badge honor of having it that they could fulfill their lifestyle. I mean Apple, the iPhone when it first came out. We can remember the evolution I mean Steve Jobs and followed by the people. I think Apple's is a great example in many ways of founder and founder transferring the knowledge and then new organization keeping up and hopefully this new organization, new leadership will do the same thing. But you know, Apple became a way of life and a style of life as opposed to a technology and BlackBerry stayed about technology. You still had people that were saying, I liked the tech, what's coming back today? I liked the tactile type keyboard on my on my BlackBerry, and you know iPhone doesn't have that.

42:02 So what what iPhone had was iPhone had. It became a part of everybody's lives, as did the music. It did, the facetiming. I mean, they have just evolved in every step of their company's history because of one thing. They have a relentless focus on the people using their products and realize, I think it's not just about innovation. It's about innovating for the people. We're trying to make their lives better or be a part of their lives is probably a better way to put it. And I think BlackBerry, well, obviously really smart people still are they just one on one? Didn't make two, and it may be made like less than one when it came to consumer adoption, And you're right at the beginning everybody had a BlackBerry, and certainly every business had them. There were businesses that didn't allow you to use anything but a BlackBerry because of their technology, and they just lost sight of their users, right right.

42:57 You talk about you know, bed Beth and beyond it, it was just you know, drowning and deals kind of thing. I remember that too, and sort of that goes back to a brand stand as you were saying, and I loved your chapter on clarifying your message and you say clear beats clever, and I really appreciated that. If you could speak a bit more to what you mean by clear over clever, Well. Sure, I think that people need to if again, I probably am almost boring on how I keep coming back to it, but it is such a fundamental belief of mine is it's about them, it's not about us. And if you take that posture and believe that, and your whole thought process comes from that perspective, then really, in addition to putting together something that is appealing to them, that you have to be very clear about what you stand for and very clear of what they can expect from you, and very clear about why they should be loyal to you. If it's all about let's go out and hire some really creative person and have them come up with a catchy line, but the organization doesn't live to it, or it's just or in some cases it one one makes seven and it's just not what you stand for. You can be as clever as you like, but if it doesn't translate to the people catching it and receiving it, and it's not what they experience. And the experience point is not just the website or the ad.

44:21 It's physically walking the stores. It's the experience of things we've talked about before. It's customer service. It's got to be you clearly have to stand for something, and yes you need to be able to communicate it, but just coming up with clever ways to say it doesn't mean you're living it. And that is so bad term but see thruable by the consumer that it's almost a negative. So yeah, I think you know it's not to say go up and be dumb and come up with dumb campaigns or in any way to belittle the listener by not being clever, But it's saying, before you can be clever, you have to be clear. I loved what you said, Warren. You say clarity, on the other hand, as opposed to just being clever, allows your customer to understand your message immediately, and so cleverness might spark curiosity, but clarity builds confidence, and confidence is what drives people to act. And you also go on to say that you know you're really when you give them that confusion, then it produces friction, which pushes people away.

45:23 So when you're more clear, you're actually what you're doing is you're showing your customer that you respect them, you respect their time, their attention. And I thought that was really powerful. Listen. I think that it's such a fundamental key to success for all brands and businesses, and you know, you know, honest to you, I think it's the same thing for us in life, right. I mean, there's so many through lines to good likable people, to good likable brands that you know that have you know what you're getting, you know what to expect, and you know how they value you. And I think that that's not in pathy, you know, positioning statements or one ad here or there. It's about how you live, breathe, acts, and respect every day.

46:10 You have a wonderful chapter that's about the reinventors, the brands that adapt and endure. And I appreciated that because you were talking about, you know, how they've made tough decisions that they were forced to, but they didn't wait for disruption. They created it. They listened, they adapt, They protect their core while transforming the edges. And I thought that was also important, especially in these times when there's a lot of organizations that are just scared and trying to find their way. If you could just speak a little bit, we only have, like MEYDI, a minute or so for you to speak to that, if you would. Sure, I think that it's really important again the customer focus. I mean three of the examples I used, unfortunately were not unfortunately because of where I was, two of them come out of the toy industry. But I think they're great examples of reinvention. I mean, Barbie lifestyle changed right right, it's don't play with dolls anymore. But they found a way to get relevant and we don't. We're not going to get to it in a minute but it wasn't because of the movie. That was part of it. But they found a way to make themselves relevant to young ladies and not just young ladies anymore. And I think, you know, look at we talked about it a little bit briefly earlier. I mean crocs. Crocs were these ugly things that only doctors wore, and now they become like kind of a part of life. And they found a way to reinvent themselves. But by what they do, their purpose, their meaning, yes, and they never changed their style. They just reinvented themselves right to make themselves much more relevant today.

47:34 And probably my favorite of them all is Lego, I mean from the Toypisse. I mean Lego. Lego shouldn't exist. It just shouldn't exist if it was just a building block company, right, I mean every kid had them, but there's no reason in today's world where everything's gone online and into digital and all that for Lego. Well, but Lego found a way to live in both worlds. They've done a magnificent job being there's there's more and more examples of it. But that, I mean, reinvention is such an important thing. It's well, you either reinvent or you die. Right right, right right, And that's really what I want and wanted to finish with. Is it's just so important that we recognize that. I do want to give you a chance to say, you know how you want to close the conversation and say thirty seconds or so before we go our separate ways.

48:17 Well, first of all, thank you for having me. I think that your passion for organizational health and organizational passion and purpose is so analogous to some of the things I do. I'm more external facing, but if I don't, you know, in the situations I deal with, if you don't have the internal alignment, the internal belief, the external doesn't matter. So I just hope that the biggest compliment I get about the book from people who are in my life is that they say, I felt like you were talking to me, as opposed to yes, I didn't. I never set out to write a textbook. This is not a marketing textbook. It's about someone who loves brands for people who love brands and are just fascinated by it.

49:00 If they are, I hope they'll read it. And you know, I a slute you for what you do. And I don't think what we do Is that different? Is just a little bit of a different Maybe we walk in a different door, but we're going into the same building. I got that from your book and Warren, I really enjoyed reading your book. I'm so grateful to know you, to be connected with you and get to share with my listeners around the globe. Thank you for being you and sharing your wisdom. Thank you for having me most welcome. Listeners and viewers. You're want to learn more about Warren Kornbloom, the work that he does advising leaders and brands on how to build trust and emotional connections, and his book notes from the brandstand, you can start by visiting him at shareoheart dot com. Just like we've been talking about throughout the show. Last week, if you missed the live show, you can always catch up you recorded to podcast. We were on air with Rabbi doctor Bahuk Halev talking about the work he does in men's groups helping them heal and come home to themselves, and in his book The Guy in the Glass Six Questions to See the Man You Were Meant to Be. It was an incredibly real, raw and powerful conversation where we started off with the incredibly tragic statistic that a man takes his life every thirteen minutes, and that's the work that he's doing to help be able to help men heal so that they don't actually take their own lives. Very very powerful conversation.

50:13 Next week will be on the air with Jason Wilde, one of the authors of Genius at Scale, How Great Leaders Drive Innovation. See you then, and let's continue leaning in and discovering how to elevate your operating system as a leader to create destination workplaces where legendary business takes place. Let's work on Purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes, each week on W four C. Why Together we'll create a world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires and passion performance, and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work on Purpose.