The Quest to Matter: In Search of Significance in Life and at Work

0:00 The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are solely those of the hosts and their guests and not those of W FORCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services, or products mentioned on error on our web. No liability explicit or implies shall be extended to W FORCY Radio. Its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W FORCY Radio. What's Working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their highest potential. Business can be such a force for good in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we all want Working on Purpose. Now, here's your host, Doctor Release Cortez.

1:03 Welcome back to the Working and Purpose program. Rate to have you. We have been on air with this program since February of twenty fifteen, with passion and pride. It's great to bring it to you. I'm your host, doctor Las Cortez, joining you live from Dallas, home base for meat. If we have not met yet and you don't know and you don't know me, I'm a management consultant, organizational logo therapist, speaker and author. My team and I at least Cortez and Associates help companies to enliven and fortify their operations by articulating their purpose and building inspirational leaders and cultures activated by meeting and purpose to turn those companies from a flatline EKG to a vibrant destination workplace. There, people are intrinsically motivated to perform with their best, grown their floor potential, and are committed to stay and dynamically deliver on the company's mission.

1:44 You can learn more about us and how we can work together at at least cortez dot com. Now getting in today's program, we have Tracy Schubert Barrett, a leadership and strategic consultant. After spending over twenty years in the television and advertising industry, Tracy decided to merge her decades of experience of an ex experience about leading, strategizing, managing, and mentoring, and start her executive coaching and a consulting firm called Navigate the Journey. She's the author of what If There's More Funding Significance Beyond Success, which we'll be talking about today. She joined us a day from Nashville, Tennessee. Tracy, Welcome to Working on Purpose. Thank you, so happy to be here, so great to have you. Let's go ahead and just show this beautiful masterpiece that you created, so beautiful. I know you have children, but you probably you may agree with me that was probably more difficult to do this than it was bring their children into the world. Yes, my children were only twenty four hours of labor. That was about two years plus labor. I understand, my friend, I really understand. So you know, it's really wonderful to get to talk with you, and really you have such a beautiful experience in your book. What I appreciate about it, it's very real. You let us in, you tell your story, you teach us a lot. So let's just start with where things began for you. You spent twenty years at HTTV and helped build this amazing network there. So just give us maybe a couple of things that were really meaningful about that time there that really stuck with you. Yeah, So you know, it was such an amazing, extraordinary

3:14 experience, you know, taking a business from literally it was just an idea, just an idea that our founder had, he came up with it in his basement, and then taking it across two decades to become a billion dollar media empire was a ride that you know, I'm just forever grateful for and I think, you know, for me, when I look back and I think about what were the biggest takeaways, it was the best entrepreneurial training ground I could have ever had. It really taught me, you know, the fundamentals of business, but the power of mission vision and values, having core values. And I learned those principles. I saw them in action. I saw what happens when you hold true to them. And you know, HGTV in those early years never wavered from what we wanted to become and in our why and the values that were our river banks that kind of kept us on track. And I also learned the power of community mentorship, leadership. I had some great mentors. When you're in any startup, you get kind of shoved into leadership pretty quickly, and so I learned a lot about leading an organization and about you know the power of finding people a little further down the road than you and you know, asking them if you can enter into their universe and learn from them. M Well, that was beautiful. That was an incredible, articulate summation of twenty some years Traces, thank you for that.

4:45 Well, here's where it gets really amazing and interesting, you know, and I think probably your your readers are going to find this riveting. Here you are enjoying all of this now mind show you also talk about just the sheer craziness of your schedule and what you were trying to accomplish back then, not knowing what city you're in, when you're at various airports, you know, your head is literally spinning. So someone there you found yourself what you call a crossroads, and I recognize that, by the way, and you were wrestling with a lot of questions. You know, you started asking is this all there is? Can I find true meaning in my work? What do I really want? Am I allowed to ask for what I want? What if there's more? I think so many listeners and viewers can relate to that, but kind of bring us into your world a bit about what was going on? What, how where were you into your crew when you started really feeling those questions. Yeah, good, twenty plus years in the television world. At that crossroads, it was, you know, not long into my forties and had, you know, two young kids at home, husband, had a demanding job. You know, we both felt stretched pretty thin, and I felt like nobody was getting the best parts of me. It wasn't that I was unhappy at work or I didn't like my job, or I had a bad boss. It was none of those things. It was just a high stress, us intense environment. And it wasn't just at work.

6:04 I had a lot going on around me and as a working mom, and and you know, getting to that crossroads, that kind of mid career, midlife, whatever crossroads you want to name it. Usually when we get to that crossroads, we start to think, well, wait a second, what am I doing? You know, how did I get here? Is? Is? What are the mile markers that are ahead of me? You know, I've checked off all the boxes by society standards. I have it all, you know, which, as working women coming up through those decades, we were often told you know, you should have it all. You could have it all, and then I just sort of ended up having it all, but also doing it all, being at all all the things, and really wondering to myself, could I give myself the gift of space to figure out what exactly do I want to do next? Do I want to stay here forever? Or you know, do I want to you know, maybe realize a new adventure? And then who am I? What's my identity outside of HDTV? So much of my identity I basically grew up at HGTV, so you know, it was really hard to unravel my identity from that network. And as great and proud as I was of it, and as glamorous as people found it to be, I still knew that there were layers to me underneath that I just wanted to realize and explore. And I kind of wondered, you know, again, what if there was more for me out there? And that was the question that just kept ringing in my head.

7:36 And I knew I could shove it down and just keep the golden handcuffs on and just sort of, you know, you know, stay on autopilot and get through. Or I could take a leap of faith. I really understand that I hit a few crossroads, and one of them was just in two thousand and three, one made daughter was born, and that's when I decided to go these self employment route so that I could still work, but on more of my terms. So that was one. The other thing that I want to call out that about what you just share that I think it's really critical that I've learned over the years, Tracy, and that is that word more. What I have found is when people start saying something like, but I want more, I think there might be more, that's when there's that's the beginning of the niggle, right. And so then you go on in your in your book and you and this is really really critical to talk about. This is so important. You go on and you say, if these crossroads crossroads could talk, they'd ask you these kinds of these key questions, how did I get here? Why do I exist? Where am I going? If you don't have clear answers to these questions, you say, you'll likely wind up in the directed midlife crisis, which is actually quite real.

8:39 And so that the feeling of being stuck with no answers can lead to depression or a desire to escape. The desire can sometimes get lived out through counterproductive choices, like having an affair, hastily falling for divorce, or buying a red sports card, which, by the way, I recognized in what happened for me, I didn't make those choices, but somebody else did anyway. So but this is real stuff. Happens when people are trying to find that meaning and they're less that significance. And so what I really appreciate is then you go on to say, which brings us to the good news. The second half of life can actually be brighter and more meaningful than your first. Yeah. Yeah, I think that those kind of midlife crossroads are tricky for people because we are completely brainwashed by society that youth is key. Everything about youth. Looking like you, you know, you're a youthful, feeling youthful. Those you know, the best years of our life, our college and our twenties, and so when we hit midlife, we consciously or subconsciously try to go backwards, you know. So we you know, do all the things, and you know, whether that's a sports car to make us feel young again, whether that's a facelift, whether that's you know, whatever it is that is where we basically are at that crossroads of either we're going to go backwards into crisis or we're going to go forward into really leaning into our life and realizing a better second half. But it's all you know, you've got to have that mindset and awareness, and I really think unfortunately a

10:11 lot of people, it's it's small decisions, bad decisions that add up to really ending up on a path you didn't intend to end up on. Yeah, So I want to build on this because I think it's really really interesting. I was talking about this with my running partner this morning. We run six miles every Tuesday and anyway, so we had plenty of time to talk. But one of the things I came to was, you know, I sort of feel like there's three general paths people take when they get to this crossroads. One is the blow up path, which is the midnight crisis when we make these series of choices that are really hard on us. Another path, which is really kind of what happened for me, was you start doing what you did, searching for significance, for something that's meaningful, and that's when I threw myself into my meaning and work and identity research. I think the third path is what I would call definitely the road more traveled, and it's sort of the straight and narrow, apathetic path of just kind of sticking through and going one foot after the other, but just not feeling fulfilled, just kind of going through the motions. Yeah, I call that autopilot.

11:16 Yeah, you're really just operating on autopilot. And you know, as we know, with autopilot, you've got to be the one that switches the gear off and you have to go manual. And so, you know, some people know and figure out and are able to find the space to figure out how to go manual and learn to lean into their lives, or they just stay on autopilot. And what's interesting is that oftentimes, you know, people will wake up at like seventies seventy five and they'll think, oh, my gosh, what just happened. And one of the highest rates of suicide are men and that are seventy five years old and their seventies. And for a lot of women, there's a spike in suicide between the ages of forty five and fifty five because they're not only experiencing sort of this apathy, they're also going through hormonal changes, and so they're you know, chemically having struggles as well, and so it's a it's a very tricky time and so you know, one of the reasons I wrote the book was hoping that it would be one of those switches, one of those you know, pathway to really getting off autopilot or or not making the mistake of going down the crisis road.

12:30 I think your work, my work, our work is really really so so important because it's not just even about the fulfillment piece of it. It's you know, of really being fulfilled in your life and realizing our potential and living your purpose to do work. But it's about true vitality. I mean, just in the last two weeks, Tracy person in my im not immediate but general friend networked death by suicide and he said that, you know, this was he just didn't he didn't feel like he was doing something worthwhile his life work wasn't wasn't wasn't meaningful, and he's no longer with us. I mean, this is this is a true casualty that's happening when we can't really surface the level of meaning and certificans that we're looking for. It is just really critical work that you know, both of us are investing our lives, know into. Yeah, absolutely, that's so tragic, and it's sadly it's not uncommon, especially now post pandemic. We're in a very kind of lonely, stressed, anxious society where anxiety is the number one mental disorder that is diagnosed today, the number one. So we're you know, a very anxious, you know, kind of tortured society. And and we're all looking for that light, you know, the light that's going to illuminate for us the meaning and purpose that we all are innately designed to have and to feel and to realize for ourselves. Yeah, and I really appreciate it, you know.

14:00 And it's just one of the things that you said so stacincly in your book. You say, the common pursuit of success as a roadmap many have traveled. The pursuit of certificates is one few have traveled. And I think that's really true. And but even just you know, learning that, you know, when you accept that this is what success looks like, to go and slog these crazy, crazy hours and make, you know, whatever money that you think is really important at the expense of your soul is really it's I think we're really starting to wake up to how that just doesn't work. Yeah, And the thing is, you know, success metrics, which I talk about in the book that are common is that we're measured by the amount of wealth we accumulate. Our power today, Like I see this even with my teenagers and their generation. How many likes, followers, you know, how big is your platform, how many you know? Are you an influencer?

14:46 Are not an influencer? And it's it's not that there's necessarily anything wrong with these things, you know, I'm I'm happy when people reach a level of success that they desire, whether that's just a amount of money that can be sustainable, or to enjoy a great vacation, or you know, even having a title at work or having a certain level of a platform are good things and can be good things. The problem is is when they become unhealthy drives, right, when it becomes this sort of toxic ambition where we are driven by those things, and that clouds our ability and inhibits our ability to have significance, to really realize our positive impact because we're the blinders are on and we're after the things that society is telling us are the most important. When we've been we've plugged into the engine. Yeah, yes, all right, Well let's grab our first break. I'm your host, doctor released cortest.

15:43 We've been on the Tracy Schubert Barrett a leadership and strategic consultant and she's the co founder of the executive coaching and consulting firm called Navigate the Journey. She's also the author of what If There's More Finding Significance Beyond Success. Stay with this, We'll be right back. Doctor Elise Cortez is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her at Elise Cortez dot com. Let's talk about how to get your employees working on purpose.

16:45 This is working on purpose with doctor Elise Cortez. To reach our program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Elise al I se at Elise Cortez dot com. Now back to Working on Purpose. Thanks for staying with us and welcome back to Working on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elis Cortez, as I too, am dedicated to helping create a world where people can realize their potential at work and are led by inspirational leaders who help them find and contribute their greatness, and we do business at better as the world. I continue to write my own books, and one of my latest books came out in March at twenty twenty three. It's called The Great Revitalization, How activating meaning and purpose can radically enlighten your business, which is decided to help leaders understand what today's workforce really wants and needs, and then offers twenty two best projects to help equip them equip them to provide it to their leadership and their culture. You can learn more about it at least Cortes dot com or on Amazon if you are just joining the program today.

17:45 My guest is Tracy Schubert Barrett. She's the author of What If There's More? Finding Succeeded Against Beyond Success. So before I get into what you're doing today, I want to set it up here with something you did beautifully in the book, and you know you've suppose you can't really talk about any kind of leaders without bringing up Peter Drucker at some point. But you talk about how, of course he is hailed as the father of modern management and was the author of thirty nine books, you say, two thirds of which he wrote after the age of sixty five. When you say he gave his last lecture not long before he died at the age of ninety five, and he believed that the best years of somebody's life was between the ages of sixty and ninety sounds good to me and that and of course that played out for him. While you say so operating from the best is yet to come, and tell it. It can give you that extra oomph that you need to carry things over to the finish line and really creates something strong. So I really believe in that. I think that's true. I think you're an example of that. I think I'm an example of that. I had Cynthia Covey Holler on my program and she wrote co wrote a book with her father, Stephen Covey, called Live Life and Crescendo. Your most important work is always ahead of you, which echoes this. So if you could just speak a little bit to this idea, because so many people, as you say in your book, our program to you know, want to go for the retirement at fifty five or sixty two or whatever, which of course we know is highly associated with mortality. So can you speak a little bit to this idea of the best years or from sixty to ninety and that forward gaze? Yeah, I think you know, when we think about our work sometimes, you

19:18 know, we can put it in the bucket that work is only a means to an end, you know. We you know, we're it's it's for the paycheck, it's to enjoy the weekend, and that's what we're working. And we rob ourselves of that opportunity to really master a craft, you know. And when we look at Peter Drucker, we really we see a picture of mastery of somebody who who enjoyed his craft so much, he saw the positive impact he was able to have. You know, I talked about in the book how it was just right before his death he had met with you know, mentoring some students, you know, and and you know that brought him so much joy his work. And so you know, we don't have to let go of our work now. I think as we age and progress through the stages of our life, we don't maybe want to work as long or as hard, or we feel like we paid our dues and we get to realize in our later decades kind of the fruits of our labor. Right that you know, And also I talk about mindset and having that longevity mindset and having that wisdom mindset and contentment. It's very important to have the proper mindset as you age and as you look towards the future chapters of your life as far as work is concerned. And so when you can find that sweet spot, when you know how you're uniquely designed, you understand your passions, your values, and you find work that really can give you meaning and significance

20:48 and you can have a positive impact. And it does not have to be large. It could just be small in the in the little world around you, or just between the one other person or to other people that you're encountering each day, or it could be a great, big stage. It does not matter. But when you understand how to master your craft and how to have a positive impact, then work is it doesn't make it less hard. Because work is toil. Monday mornings are rough for all of us, but we can find the power in it and we can find fulfillment in it in a way that makes us not want to quit. You know, it makes us always, you know, wanting to be working into the end. And all of my mentors that are further down the road than me are all people that are still engaged. There is still engaged, and they look younger, they feel younger. They don't talk about, you know, age as if it's this awful, horrible thing. They really look at each day as a gift, as one more day to have an impact. Completely agree. As I said to you before we're gotting, I'm just going to go ahead and repeat it. So you know, as I mentioned, I read part of your book when I was at the gym working out to when I start there, I'm on the bicycle and you know, I'm reading your book and I'm underlying my pencil and such, and every once in a while I'm like, yes, that's right, that's exactly right. I agree, and you know, and of course the other people in the gym were looking at me like she she's backs back, So you don't me in public Tracy. But it's okay. I love that. I'm honored by that. But thank you.

22:25 Okay. So well, now then that situations beautifully for you to share just how it was that you were able to create a business that aligns with your own dreams, your own passions, your own talent, your purpose. Tell us about how that came to be and what you're doing. Yeah, so it happened organically. It's you know, like I said, I left AHTV kind of the top of my game. You know, there there was no apparent reason to anybody for me to leave. You know, I always say it wasn't There was no push. You know, I didn't have a bad boss, there was no layoff, there was no any of that. It just it was time for me to take a leap of faith. So there was no push, but there was a pool. There was something kind of pulling me that that was really saying, you know, there's something else out there. I didn't know what it was, but I was open to whatever came my way. And what happened was I left and people just kept reaching out to me, mainly from the media industry, that we're like, hey, can you help me with this? Can you coach me on this can you you know, I need to get through this situation that I'm in.

23:27 And you know, it was the best use of those decades of corporate business experience, married with the fact that I had gotten my master's in professional psychology early on in my career at HGTV, mainly because we didn't have management training and that type of stuff. Early on, I was like, I don't really want to get an NBA, already have a business degree. I'll go and you know, work on a psychology degree. And it was the best decision I ever made. And so I took that experience and my husband at the time was doing strategic planning, and he's like, why don't we start a business consulting firm. You can do executive coaching and team building and I'll do strategic planning, and and it was just this And I can remember to this day, sitting on the couch ten years ago having this conversation, and we you know, looked up Navigate the Journey, because I was like, you know, it's not about the destination, it's the journey. And I really want people to understand that in business and in life, and if we can come alongside them and help them get to where they really want to go.

24:30 Then I think it would be perfect for us because we're at this stage in our career where we're ready to pay it forward, where we're ready to really be the wind beneath other people's wings, you know, help them succeed and realize their dream and their potential. And we just got super excited about it. And we've built it just one client at a time. It was like one coaching client. We you know, one company that wanted strategic planning, and it was just little by little we built the company and we are just loving every minute of it today. We just love coming into people's worlds and helping them, you know, realize greater significance through their work, you know, through being a good leader, but also in their life in general.

25:15 And you're ten years in now, right, Yeah, it's about just about Yeah, it's it's amazing. Well, so many things that I loved about what you put forth in the book that I thought were just so elevating and educational. One of them, of course, is your focus on one perspectivity and so you talk about how that really will dictate your life trajectory. And then you give three key mindsets that you think are important to build a life of significance. Will you talk about each one of those? Yes? Yeah. So I always say, no matter you know, what stage or anything, I'm on that there is power and perspective that we under utilize the power in our mind, you know. And I love all the kind of research around that. And when we can get our perspective right, it alters the way we see the world and the way the world sees us, and it's so important. And so I what I tried to do in my book was boil down kind of the three you know mindsets. I think that are super helpful for people when they're at a cross roads and they're thinking about their future. And the first one's longevity. You know, I think the first thing we need to realize and really you know, ingrain into our brain, is that we have a long, healthy life ahead of us, you know, if we choose. And I know that there are a lot of things in life that we don't control, but putting those aside, if we can believe instead of you know, we've all been taught sort of like carpetium,

26:48 like this day could be your last, and I think it really feeds into kind of this hustle culture and this like franticness versus you know, kind of resting in and believing that we have decades ahead and we are you know, I have a lot of research in the book about you know, longevity stats and what people are living until and how people are living longer and they're living healthier longer, and we have more options ahead of us to really engage in a healthy lifestyle. And I just love that. I think that's the most important of the three, really is because once you believe that, then all of a sudden, you're willing to take another risk. You're willing to to maybe try something new, You're willing to double down where you are, or fall back in love with your company because you understand that they're decades ahead instead of days. And then secondly, I want to comment on that one because it's just it's just so great. Two things. One I remember eight years ago I was in a leadership development workshop for myself. The speaker was a futurist and she said, she said, there were about eighty five of us women in the crowd, and she said, if you're if you're fifty years old and in pretty good health, you've got a pretty good chance of living to one hundred. I had immediate thoughts. The first one was awesome, I had more time to go after all my dreams and my goals and make them happen. The second immediate thought was, oh, crap, I better take better care of this card because that's going to get me there, you know, which is so important. If you have a long jetty long jevity mindset, then you want to also take good care of yourself. And then the second thing I wanted to comment on is that also really speaks to why

28:21 you gave the Peter Drucker quote of you know, the best can be so far ahead of you, that there's so much you can do in those years, those sixties, seventies, eighties, and nineties that people haven't traditionally thought of that way. And I stand to celebrate that too. And that's the path. I want to be. The woman in the purple outfit in the hat, you know, bringing her bicycle into town for things, and she knows all the people in the town and she's going to deliver a lecture later on at eighty five. That's where I'm going. I love that picture. I think that's fabulous, and I think that picture in your mind, you know, envisioning that is what is going to keep you young and healthy. And I think that they're there are so many examples of this out there now of women and men that we can see that have said, you know what, I you know, the heck with agism. I'm not You're not putting me out to pasture. I have a lot to give. And you know, I think America has been behind on this, you know, really holding up its elders and holding up the wisdom and the experience and knowing that there's so much for the generations ahead to really pour back into the workplace and that you know, maybe we need to have more older workers around more and speaking into the lives of these people who are coming up now on these generations.

29:44 There's so much richness in that. Absolutely, Tracy right there with you. Let's keep championing that. Okay. So then the next mindset, the next mindset is wisdom. So the wisdom mindset, really, you know what I say, And what's most important about this mindset is is that when you, as you age, wisdom isn't a given. You know, we all think, oh the older, the wiser. Now I think we all know some older people that aren't so wise. Wisdom has to be pursued. We really need to have that learner mentality. And this is why I loved when you were like, I'm going to read your book, and I know how much you read and you you absorb, and what that does is help you grow in wisdom, grow in knowledge. It's that intellectual health. And I think right now we're living in a society where you know, truth is fractured, you know, integrity is vague. You know people really going after wisdom and really trying to to know more and be more curious than certain. You know, it's it's not happening as much. But if we can all recommit to it, I think we'll see a resurgence of goodness and positivity and significant lives happening all around us. So I really love the idea of the pursuit of wisdom, and I think we all should adopt beautifully rendered And then you have, of course the contentment mindset, which I have not actually heard it described

31:15 that way. So yeah, so you know, there's a million books on happiness. I think everybody's chasing happiness I talk about in the book, and I kind of try to flip that on its head, that happiness is very circumstantial. You know, I think that we can really trick ourselves from a psychological standpoint to say, oh, I want to have a happy life, And what we really need to be saying is I want to have a content life. Because life isn't going to be happy one hundred percent of the time. Not every day is going to be a good day, not at all the moments within a day are going to be good. And so when we look at our life as a whole and we just say, hey, what I really desire is a full and satisfying life, a life that I can feel content in. What that does is it gives us room for the ups and the downs. It helps us to see and rejoice the triumphs. But it also helps us to see that the trials and the hardships are there for a reason, and we can grow and we can learn and we can mature through those. So I just talk about how contentment I think is really an antecdote for that endless chase of happiness. Beautiful, Tracy, let's let our listeners and viewers chew on that producing moment. We've been on air with Tracy Schubert talking about her new book, What If There's more finay Ctificants Beyond Success.

32:36 After the break, We're gonna first thing we're going to talk about is the number one reason people do not live out their true purpose. Stay with us, will be right back. Doctor release Cortez as a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies visioneer for a greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her at Elise Cortez dot com. Let's talk about how to get your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortez. To reach our program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Elise ali Se at Elise Cortez dot com. Now back to working on Purpose.

33:50 Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to working on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortez. I mentioned in the last Break that my last book, which is out in March. At twenty twenty three which is the great revitalization. How activating meaning and purpose can radically enliven your business. It's now out. Now what I've done is I've created an organizational assessment for you. It's sitting on my website at least corotest dot com, and you can you can download that assessment and you can learn the extent to which your company's leadership and culture meet the standards of today's workforce. It's free. Check it out if you're just learning the program. My guest is Tracy Schubert Barrett. She is the author of what If There's More? Finding Sigificates Beyond Success. Okay, so now we have to go into and of course I knew I knew the answer to this question, but I'm guessing a few of our listeners and viewers don't. So talk a bit, if you would, about the number one reason people do not live up their true purpose. Yeah, so I talk about that in my experience and with the people that I coach.

34:44 The thing that comes up at time and time again is the fear of not having enough money, not making enough money, and especially in corporate America, you know, the golden handcuffs whole phrase, and being coined is by no accident, right there? A people work? Yes, it works, it works, and yeah, it's it's it's hard, it's I don't take anything away from the fact that it is scary. It's scary to make a change or a pivot when you have great responsibility you know, families and mortgages and all of those things. And so I try to affirm people where they are. But then what I want people to do is really examine what do they need? Yes, you know, what really do they need? And is are things like money, power, title, fame, loving them back?

35:35 Are those the things that are really serving them back? Because when we're just serving them day after day after day, you know that that is a hard road to go down because you're not going to find a lot of satisfaction and fulfillment in it. Beautifully said, Okay, so now because I found the same thing. I mean, I've jumped off the cliff to pursue the meaning and purpose of routing and I did that. I focused on that and live two eighteen. When I did that, Tracy did not have a single client that said I want to work with you. I was convicted that I need to do this. I need to draft my own first book, create my own leadership program, and start a nonprofit. And I did that and it was just to be true. But it was a huge leap of fake And but the crazy things you can do HI on purpose, right, crazy things you can do. But I understood though, you know I could.

36:24 I had myself where I didn't have, you know, I had learned how to consolidate, so I knew how to make that leap. But to your point, I really appreciate an an applaud the choice of how difficult it is to pursue that when you're standing on a big, nice, comfortable paycheck that keeps showing up every single other week. Yeah. Yeah. It was scary for us as a family walking away from HTTV and and knowing that we were going to lose a huge portion of our income and and trying to really sit down and realize with as much honesty and frankness as we could, like, what are we willing to give up? And you know, what are we you know, what is the space and time we're willing for me to realize something different? And what are our priorities? And can I put those things first? The children that I really wanted to be spending more time with and in our home. And you know, I think it was hard for a lot of people around me to understand or accept, and I think it was scary for other people to see me do it. I got many calls where people, you know, especially women, were like, you can't do this, You're you know, it's it's going backwards and making me feel guilty.

37:42 Are people saying, you know, what does that mean for the rest of us? And it wasn't like I was making some big judgment on the world. I just decided I was going to do something for me. I was going to make a decision based on on my terms and what I wanted from my life. It was not this sweeping statement for the world. But what it showed me by doing it was what was underneath other people's motives and they were really feeling and when they watched me make that choice, what emotions it brought up in them, And that to me was fascinating, fascinating. I'm a social scientist, and so for me, what that really speaks to is that you know that you you challenge their norms and their choices, and you know you're you're leaving the nest, and you know whenever you know your tribe or a person in your tribe starts to try to get away, you know, there's a tendency to want to bring them back in. And that happens all over the world in all kinds of cultures, all kinds of religions.

38:39 It's fascinating. Yeah, yeah, that's so interesting. Yeah right, I know you would love that with your education. So speaking of that now, there's an element two to that of identity, which I want to cover off next. And you talk about in your book how James clear Rights in his book Atomic Habits, he and you quote him, is saying, don't just read a book or have a reading routine, become a reader. Don't just run a marathon or work out regularly, become a runner. To fulfill your potential, keep expanding and elevating your identity. You will stick with You will stick with your life vision. When it becomes part of who you are rather than just a goal, you're upset for yourself. So and when it becomes a lifestyle, it becomes a mindset. I think that is incredibly powerful, Tracy. What you did in those short bits of how you've strung that together his work and your perspective on it is critical. Thank you. Yeah, I just feel again back to mindset and back to how we're seeing our work and seeing our life. And and you know this really plays into that again, that whole idea around mastering a craft. You know, we see this if you watch like Chefs Table, or you've seen you know Zo, you know, Dreams of Sushi or any anybody who's I think chefs are just really kind of a great example because there's so much art and you know, even though they can become these great admired chefs, they it's still not enough for them. It's like, what's next, What's next? And I think when when we look at the things that we try to master, or we look

40:13 at the things we want to do, you know, maybe it's it's just a hobby as well. You know that that really helps alter our mindset when we say, you know what, I'm not gonna just read a book. I'm a reader. I'm not just going to run with my friend every once in a while. I'm a runner. And and that changes my mentality. It gets me putting on the sneakers to run much more often. And I think, you know, when we see people like older senior citizens that have taken on this mentality, we also see more vitality in them, you know, when they say, you know, they're still taking on a craft or they're taking on you know, some sort of athletic stance or whatever. We see that they then have more reason to live. So it really helps us beyond work to have meaning and purpose. You know, I agree with every single less utterance of that. I think one of the things that that you've done really exceptionally well in your book is the way that you help people come to their life compass, you know, and defining your unique talents, your passions, your personal core values, in your in your purpose, and you really go on this. This is where I think you really separate yourself from a lot of people that are in this space, Tracy, because what you do is you go on to to iterate and listen to this ladies and gentlemen, this is critical. She says. Your unique talents are your what, your passions are your aware, your core values are your how, and your

41:45 your core purpose is your why. I think that is so incredibly compelling and so specific, and what a way to be able to help isolate this for people to get them on a path where they can really see who they are and where they want want to go. Tracy, just kudos, thank you. So this is part of you know, I I outline this in the book of Strategic Life Map, which is a curriculum that I've created where people can take some tried and true, you know, strategic planning concepts like mission vision, you know, values, and I put it into a compass and say, this is the compass that's going to illuminate your path and if you can stay true to who you truly are. And I believe we're all uniquely made, just as unique on the outside of our fingertips as we are on the inside. And you know, when we can push past things like you know, our self limiting beliefs or how other people we believe view us, and we can really get deep into understanding who we are, then we can start to own what we can do. And so, you know, I just love the idea that that our talents are really what we can you know, bring to the world, and and our passions are where hurt is, you know, and our and our core values are how we want to behave, how we want to interact, how we want to show up to the world and be received. And you know, those keep us safe, you know, and and they're a filter when things, you know, people roll

43:15 up against us wrong. And and then the purpose is why we exist? You know that is a big question. So many people are wrestling through and you know, it's it's it's a big question. I get it. And I think one of the reasons I wrote the book I wish I had at my crossroads because I had these questions, but I had no framework to answer them. Yes, and so you know, having the Strategic Life Map framework and now it's an online course because I just wanted to reach as many people as possible. You know. Now there's a framework out there where people can go deep and and really figure these things out for themselves and create that that compass and that vision for the future and be able to really lean into the idea of a significant life. Beautiful. Okay, So next, what I want to do is I want to read a short passage here and then ask you to comment on it, because even just the way that you wrote it is so so incredibly compelling, and I don't want to lose anything in the translation. So you say, a defined mission can also fill people with dry and ambition for something greater than themselves. It pulls us out of an individualistic success only mentality and pushes us toward a more collective view of the world.

44:24 A lack of mission leads people to despair, dysfunction, and alienation. It is a personal purpose that gives us more solid footing and a clear avenue to connect with others. It also helps us to find a wonderful satisfaction of being useful to all those around us. People feel the very best about themselves when they give the very best of themselves to others. It's so beautiful. Thank you, thank you. I really think that one of the things when I was writing the Bog, I was thinking, gosh, I really hope people don't think. What I'm trying to do is make you more full of yourself.

45:05 You know that that knowing yourself more deeply. And I'm not trying to really say, you know, oh, you know, build your head up. What I'm trying to do is that when we really understand how we can impact the world, what happens is we stop looking inward and we start looking outward, and then we start to look around with how can we serve others with our gifts and our talents, and then when we start to do that, we realize, oh my gosh, this feels really good, This feels really fulfilling, This makes actual sense, you know. And and we think about like Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and we think about getting up to self actualization, which is that basically reaching your full potential and have a filling life.

45:52 I think what keeps us from getting there is when we just serve ourselves and we're just serving ourselves and we're just trying to, you know, to accumulate, accumulate. But then when we can push past that and start to realize we can serve others, and then we just get a taste of what that feels like, we're altered, we're changed. As a logo therapist, which of course is focused on the idea that meaning is our chief source of concern, it's also our chief source of energy. What that puts forth is the idea that of the importance of self transcendence, which is exactly what you're talking about, which is the one of the best ways we can achieve a state of vitality. And so when it's both of us know that purpose is always about serving other people, so we combine this notion of who do we want to help and how can we uniquely serve them through our purpose? And now we've really got something pretty special. Yeah. Yeah, And I think you know, it takes a lot of self awareness to get there. It takes a lot of pausing for a second and really knowing that, you know, making your work matter is one of the most important steps you can you can take to finding purpose in life in general. And really, you know, I think so many people struggle, and I'm sure you see this all the time in your work, struggle in the workplace because they think that the

47:24 promotion is going to make it better, or the when they finally the boss they don't like leaves, it's going to be better, or find you know, when the company sold, it's going to be better. That there's always something that's you know, going to make it better. And they're not looking within, They're not looking like what change can I make? How can I change my perspective? How can I have a positive impact in what I'm doing? How can I see this work differently? And you know, I don't want anybody to read my book and hear my message and think that the only answer is to leave. It's not right. You know. There's a lot of people who go through my process and they fall back in love with their hate. They see it in a whole new light and they think, oh my gosh, I've been missing the mark. There's so much I can do where I am, and that is also just as beautiful for me to see, you know, than the person who wants to take a leap of faith and do something different. So you know, it's really all about perspective and seeing things differently. Tracy, that is a beautiful way to close the show.

48:24 We It's amazing the time evaporated with you. This was beautiful. I'm so happy that I get to share with my listeners and viewers. Thank you for being a guest. I'm working on purpose. Well, thank you. I've loved every second of it. Thank you. They're so welcome me too. Listeners, viewers. If you will learn more about this amazing woman, Tracy Schubert Barrett, the work she and her team do it navigate the journey or the book she has just got out. What if there's more? Start by visiting her website. It's Tracy Schubert Barrett. Let me spell that for you. So It's Tracy t r a Ci Schubert, sh u b e r T Barrett b a are Ett, Tracy Schubert, Barrett dot com. Last week even missed the live show We Can Always Catch to be Reported recorded podcast. We were on Airwick Kent Gregoire talking about the work he does, unleashing entrepreneurial spirit for good and anchored at stakeholder capitalism Principles. Next week will be on the air with Steve Farrell talking about his journey and how he co founded and led two high growth technology companies in Silicon Valley and the way that he shares his journey from the pursuit of wealth and traditional success toward a more fulfilling life of caring and service to others. Will be conversing on his new book and new Universal Dream, my journey from Silicon Valley to a life and service of a community. It will be a perfect build on today's conversation with Tracy. See you there and remember work is an essential part of our lives.

49:44 Ultimately the way we spend our lives and can be one of the best adventures and means of realizing our potential and making the impact we crave. So let's Work on Purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to tune into Working on Purpose, featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortez, each week on W four CY. Together we'll create a world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires and passion performance, and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work on Purpose.