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The topics and opinions express in the following show are
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solely those of the hosts and their guests and not
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What's Working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the
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answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose
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at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their
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lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization
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that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their
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highest potential. Business can be such a force for good
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in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide
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guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we
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all want Working on Purpose. Now, here's your host, doctor
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Elise Cortes.
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Welcome back to Working on Purpose program, which has been
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brought to you with passion and pride since February of
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twenty fifteen. Thanks for tuning in this week. Great to
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have you. Mostly are sitting on untapped human energy, and
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I helped them unleash it. I'm an organizational psychologist, local therapist,
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workforce advisor and the founder of the Gusto Now movement.
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But my favorite title that I traffic in is simply
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that I traffic and energy, not the surface level motivation
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or another engagement initiative, but the deeper force what I
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call Gusto, the life force of performance that drives commitment, perseverance,
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and genuine ownership of a shared mission and the clients
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we serve. You can learn more about us on how
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we can work together at Gusto dashnow dot com or
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my personal site at least coortes dot com. Getting in
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today's program, we have with us doctor Ryan Godfredson. He
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is a cutting edge leadership development author, researcher, and consultant.
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He helps organizations vertically develop their leaders, primarily through a
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focus on mindsets to elevate the organization and culture. He
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is the author of the Elevated Leader, Leveling Up Your
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Leadership through Vertical Leader Vertical Development, which we talked about
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last time he was on air today we're diving into
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another of his books, Becoming Better, the groundbreaking science of
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Personal Transformation. We will be talking about the difference between
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vertical and horizontal development, and also the difference between the
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being and doing side of ourselves, and we'll talk about
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some of the things that people can do to start
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the process of vertically developing on their own. He joins
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us again from Orange County, California, Doctor Ryan govertson a
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hearty welcome back to Working on Purpose.
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Hey, thanks for having me back. We must have done
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something right last time.
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I think so. I told you before we got on air,
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I might.
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Be a fan. Well, I just love having these conversations,
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so yeah, let's geek out.
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Well if we must, But look at this beautiful thing
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that you brought into the world, and first time we
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also just celebrate you, Ryan one. You know, you're very,
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very real and personable and vulnerable in this book, and
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I really appreciate that it helps us all realize that
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we're on this journe need together. Right, We're all in
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this development thing. We're never done. And you know, sometimes
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it gets a little sticky and ooh and GOOHI in there.
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Yeah it does, But I love I mean I loved
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your intro. I'm sitting there and listen to your intro,
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and you know you you love focusing on energy and
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helping them people harness that energy and provide that productively.
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And I think a lot of what we're going to
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talk about is how do we unlock ourselves so that
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we can put forth that energy. I've just learned that
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each of us and myself included, we have, like I
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am almost a vision And remember those old cartoons where
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people have, like, you know, a chain around their ankle
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and there's this big ball, right, a weighted ball. Yes,
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I just think that we all have those that are
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holding us down and holding us back. The question is
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are we aware of what they are? And do we
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know how to unlock it? And I've just discovered that
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not many people are in touch with those and most
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people don't know how to unlock it. But if we
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can do that, it's unlimited potential. So I'm excited to
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dig in.
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I love how we've situated this already. Let's go Okay,
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so first we want we want to first invite our
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listeners and viewers into this realm that we're going to
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be only discussing, which is vertical development. But before we
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do that, let's have you do this once again, distinguish
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horizontal and vertical development.
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Yeah, horizontal development is a formative. So the two different
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types of development there are, they are completely different developmental
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strategies and pathways. Okay, and we are all familiar with
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horizontal development. Horizontal development is most development. It's improving our talent,
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our knowledge, and our skills. This is our education systems,
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our athletic programs, and our organizational develop development efforts almost
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slowly focused on here's what you need to know and
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here's what you need to do. And then the name
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of the game with horizontal development is in a way,
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you've got to work hard and you've got to push hard. Okay,
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that's what we are accustomed to. But it is not
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the only developmental pathway. Now. It is a good developmental pathway,
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but it is limited. In fact, I would dare say
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that when we engage in horizontal development, our potential is
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only incremental improvement. Now there's a different developmental path and strategy.
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And that's vertical development. Vertical development isn't adding knowledge and
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skills to what we have, it's upgrading our internal operating system.
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So you might say horizontal development is putting tools in
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our tool belt. We love tools, that's great, But vertical
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development is all about upgrading the person wearing the tool belt.
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And so this when we engage in vertical development, it
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can be transformational and something that's unique. And we'll dive
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into this is vertical development really isn't about pushing harder,
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working harder. It's actually more about letting go, particularly from
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those weights that might be holding us back.
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I really love that whole analogy of the tool belt
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and a person wearing the tool belt. I think that
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really really brings it home. Okay, now we need We
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did say listeners and viewers that we were going to
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geeg out. So this is really going to help you
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learn so much if you listen to what we're talking
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about today and take it to heart. Ooh, it's just
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great stuff. So now that you've done vertical and horizontal,
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and now we got to hit the being and doing
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sides of ourselves. If you could distinguish those.
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Yeah, and it's just a different terminology. So what I've
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learned is that we have two different sides of ourselves.
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One side of ourselves is our doing side, that's our talent, knowledge, skills,
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and abilities, and we need that. And I'm going to
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give you an example. I'll use somebody who's been in
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the news lately if you follow sports, and it's Tiger Woods.
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Tiger Woods has been in the news. We know Tiger
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Woods because he is incredible along his doing side. Throughout
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his past, he's been an incredibly skilled, skilled golfer, right
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he has. He's really far out on the doing side
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if you think about an X access. But he's also
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been in the news lately because he has some issues,
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some personal issues, maybe some substance abuse issues. And when
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we look at those issues that Tiger Woods has, they
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don't have anything to do with his doing side. His talent,
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his knowledge and skills has something to do with another
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side of himself, which is his being side, and our
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being side is the quality and sophistication of our internal
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operating system. And when somebody has issues, and we've all
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had issues, so I'm not trying to judge Tiger, which
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I mean, we all have issues. It's just are we
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aware of what issues we have? And if we've got
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issues that are holding us back in our lives, it
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generally has a lot more to do with our being
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side than our doing side, and so to kind of
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merge this terminology together. Horizontal development is improving along our
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doing side, Vertical development is improving along our being side.
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And so what I've just recognized is that almost all
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of us are in we're We're almost all familiar with
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our doing side. We know how much skills we have,
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how much knowledge we have, how much abilities that we have.
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But what I found is that not many people really
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know the true quality of their being side. And so
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this just by making this distinction doing side and being side,
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it opens up a new and possibly different way to
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evaluate ourselves.
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Awesome. Okay, now we've laid some really important groundwork that
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has helped distinguish some key terms that you use throughout
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your book. Okay, so then what I would love to
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do to bring it back down to the ground because
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you and I can get really theoretical and very geeky here.
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You talk about I love how you share the multiple
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examples of how you work with people, but you talk
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about how personal transformation always involves an upgrade and an
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elevation to this being site. And you go on to
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say that when you coach people, they become more emotionally
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in control and regulated in many different ways. So to
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help us help our listeners and viewers understand and think
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about how they can start to try this on what
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ways do you start to notice that they're more emotionally
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in control and regulated?
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Good when? And then this is just a pretty cursory
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gauge of our being side altitude, And that's by asking
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the question how reactive are you?
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So?
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For example, if you get cut off on the freeway,
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how prone are you to react? I'm a parent and
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I have kids who play sports. When my child doesn't
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do something, well, how much do I react as a
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parent when I get feedback? How quick am I to
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get defensive? When when a problem happens at work? How
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quick am I to put out the fire? Right? And
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so our being side. One way to gauge our being
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side is how reactive is our body's internal operating system? Right?
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We just know some people fly, you know, just in
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these uncomfortable situations. Their body's internal operating system is flying
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to let me control, let me make sure there's no problems,
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let me just ease my emotional burden, whereas other people
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have a wider window of tolerance where they can sit
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in some of these uncomfortable situations, and not that they
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love sitting there, but by having the capacity to sit
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with the discomfort, it gives them a greater ability to
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choose their response to the situation as opposed to knee
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jerk react to the.
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Situation beautifully articulated. Okay, now, let's if we can with
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the with the utmost love and respect scare our listeners
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and viewers just dismedge. And that is by situating that
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we have so much of our response is automatic and
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non conscious until we do this work. So you think
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about this, that means that we are kind of puppets
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to our operating system here and we don't even know
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that we're being controlled. And that's so so important. So
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if you could speak to this notion of how much
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of this response you're talking about until we work on
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it is automatic and non conscious reaction.
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Yeah, this is super fascinating, right because we all think that, oh, yeah,
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we are we are in the driver's seat of our lives.
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And the statistic really causes us to question that, which
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is psychologists and neuroscientists that found that ninety five percent
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of our thinking, feeling, judging, and acting is driven by
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our non conscious automatic processing and that that's on average.
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I don't think that's everybody. But what if, for example,
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what if we could have only ninety percent of our thinking, feeling, judging,
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and processing be driven by our non conscious automatic processing. Now,
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the reason for this is because our brain is our
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biggest calorie user within our body, and so our body
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has to operate in a way that saves energy. We
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just can't do everything consciously, so our brain is really
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efficient at putting things at a non conscious level. And
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so one of the ways that I think about this,
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and this is one of the things that we've learned,
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is that how we are wired and programmed to survive
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our childhood is not the same wiring and programming that
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we need to thrive as adults, as parents, as spouses,
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as leaders, as employees, as fill in the blank. And
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so we have all adopted automatic programming based upon our past,
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our life's experience, and then we should come to a
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point in time in our adulthood where we ask the question,
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is my wiring really optimize for my purpose for the
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impact that I want to have in my life? And generally,
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if we ask that question, we'll find that not every
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aspect about our wiring is aligned with the best version
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of ourselves.
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Yeah, and then there's the notion of the stuff that
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I think many people are starting to recognize how important
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it is to unlearn things, to let go of things
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and no longer serve us. But that takes an awareness process,