April 14, 2026

Leading What’s Alive: The Journey to Mastering the Living Organization

Leading What’s Alive: The Journey to Mastering the Living Organization
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Leadership isn’t just about directing outcomes—it’s about cultivating what’s alive within your organization. In this thoughtful dialogue with Norman Wolfe, we explore the next evolution of The Living Organization and what it asks of leaders willing to grow into it. This episode centers on the inner journey: learning to see patterns, deepen your presence, and lead from a more integrated, whole self. Because when leaders evolve, organizations don’t just perform better—they come alive.

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WEBVTT

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The topics and opinions express in the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not

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What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the

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answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose

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at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their

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lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization

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that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their

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highest potential. Business can be such a force for good

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in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide

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guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we

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all want working on Purpose. Now here's your host, doctor

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Elise Cortes.

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Welcome back to the Working Purpose Program, which has been

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brought to you with passionateurprise since February of twenty fifteen.

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Already thanks for tuning in this week. Great to have you.

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I'm your host doctor at least Cortes. Most leaders are

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sitting on untapped human energy. I help them unlock it.

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I'm an organizational psychologist, local therapist, workforce advisor and the

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founder of the Gusto Now movement. But the title I

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live by is much simpler. The everyday title is I

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traffic and energy, not service level motivation or another engagement initiative.

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The deeper force what I call Gusto, the life force

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of performance that drives commitment, perseverance, and genuine ownership of

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a shared mission in the clients we serve. You can

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learn more about how we can work together at gustodash

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now dot com or visit my personal site at least

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Cortes dot com. Getting into today's program we have with

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this back for a second time. Norman Wolf. He's the

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founder and CEO of Quantum Leaders and the creator of

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the Living Organization, which is a framework that replaces machine

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thinking with a leadership model grounded and how organizations actually work.

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He is a former Helott Packard executive who led a

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one point two billion dollar turnaround and has spent over

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four decades, helping CEOs close the gap between strategy and

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execution by aligning what people do, how they relate, and

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what they believe with the organization's goals. He's the author

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of a soon to be released book he co author

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with his wife Jane, called Living the Leading Living Organization,

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How Transform, How You Lead to deliver Extraordinary results, which

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we'll be talking about today. He George today from Vancouver, Washington,

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just north of Portland, Oregon. Norman A hearty welcome back

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to Working on Purpose. Thank you, Elise, so great to

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have you. And as I mentioned, friend, I just really

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really enjoyed the book. I thought it was so well written,

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so engaging, and it's so personal and I really love

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that you wrote it into a parable I'm seeing that

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more and more in terms of business books, because we

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love stories. You know, we're wired for stories and we

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can relate to them. So let's introduce, you know, the

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main characters. Catherine is the CEO of Sharp Training Solutions,

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and this is a training organization that was really in

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the process of moving from doing training in person to

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doing online training. So that's kind of the gist. You

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want to fill in a little bit more about what

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was going on there?

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Sure, So Catherine, as you might call a reluctant CEO, right,

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her dad had started the company and ended up having

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a heart attack and the doctor said, you're stressed out,

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you need to retire, and Catherine took over. And interestingly enough,

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she took over about I think it was six months,

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just trying to when COVID it. So while they had

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these plans to go online eventually, now they had a

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pivot really quickly, and that presented a lot of tensions

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and stress in the organizations that challenged Catherine's leadership style

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leadership approach, how do you get a team of people

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to execute much quicker than they were doing. So that's

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sort of the context, if you will.

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So it opens with a particularly vexing conflict between two

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people I think I want to call it Charlie and Jason.

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So she's really grappling with this how they're really blaming

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each other for not producing results, and she's lots and

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loss attention, and somewhere in there she gets introduced to

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this wonderful person named Merlin.

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Yes, yeah, Merlin is Merlin has a lot of meaning

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to Jane and I. But Merlin is the consultant that

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comes in, Marylan has been trained in the living Organization

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framework by it's founder me, and Merlin comes in and works,

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let's just say, works his magic on working with Jason

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and Charlie to have them see each other through a

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different light. That's sort of the bottom line of how

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the first product it goes. And in that process, Catherine

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is observing how Marland so definitely manages these conflicts and

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moves from conflict to cooperation and breaks down the silo.

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And then of course there's a few other issues that

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come up with the person in charge of I think

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it's customer support and other small tensions. To about that,

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Catherine says, let's go to have lunch with Merlin and

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see what he has to say. And so Marlin walks

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through again a way of thinking about the challenge. You know,

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most of our challenges are we get stuck in them

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because we have a certain way of thinking about it.

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And when we look at something through a certain lens

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and we feel stuck, oftentimes what's really necessary is what

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I call reframing, looking at it through with different lens,

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and all of a sudden you can see pathways to

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solutions that you can't see the other way. And a

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lot of the living organization, where I call reframing the paradigm,

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is based on we're stuck at seeing a business a

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certain way, and while we keep trying to fix it,

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we're still stuck in the way we see it, and

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that causes us to not be able to affect the

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solutions we want to see in the organizations in general.

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And that's really what I make to write the book

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in the first place.

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Yeah, So first we want to contrast for our listeners

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and viewers who haven't yet read this book or the

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previous one that I had you on some years ago

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as well, talking about you have a very strong foundational

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concept and distinguishing between an organization as a machine versus

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a living organization. If you want to see a little

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bit more about.

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That, sure, sure, if you think about just step back

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from most of the rhetoric we hear about leadership and

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management and organization. See, the foundational framework is that an

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organization is a black box that's supposed to take inputs

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and produces outputs. And it's that type of simple framing

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of what an organization is that most of our leadership

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theories and practices are based on and under that the

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designer of that machine, that black box is the leader

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or the leadership team, and that design we call strategy

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and business model and structure and processes. And then inside

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the black box, we want to optimize the flow from

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input to output. And everything inside is a component if

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you think about that. No matter what we say about people,

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the most important assets, the critical stakeholders, you know, we

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reckon their importance, and we really do. But the thinking

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is to get the work done. I need these component

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parts to perform a certain way. The way we structure

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job descriptions, the way it's almost like structuring a spec

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sheet for a new robot, you know. And that's the

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way people feel they experience it. No matter what we

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say in our words the lived experiences, I'm just a

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component part, and we say you play out when new

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technology comes along like AARI, everybody's concerned about being replaced. Well,

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it's because that's the way the paradigm we live in exists.

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So as I looked at why, you know, the basic

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question that stimulated all this was seventy percent of strategies fail,

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seventy percent of people are disengaged. And with all the

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wisdom we have from your books and other people's books

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and academics and the bookshelf beyond me. The question that

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really stimulated my journey was why aren't we making a difference.

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Why are the same statistics happening decade after decade after decade.

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And that's when I concluded, it's a paradigm. And so

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I asked the question, what's a different paradigm, And again,

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looking at the thirty percent that all successful, whether they

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talk about how do they think, how do they relate

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to their organizations? And then of course my own experiences,

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I began to really see organizations as operating like a like,

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more like a person does than a machine. And so

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I began to go down that path. And it's that

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notion that a collective of people that come together for

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a common purpose actually give birth to a living entity

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that surrounds them. You know, a little interesting size story.

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When I got married a chain, which is going on

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twenty five years ago. Now, one of the things I

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learned from my previous marriages was this notion that when

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two people come together in a relationship, they actually give

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birth to a third entity called the marriage. The marriage

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itself or the relationship itself is a living entity and

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over the years were initially Jane and I called it

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our usness, but then we got to talking about and

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then we said we should give our relationship a name.

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And guess who our relationship.

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Name is, Marlin. Yeah, okay.

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And so these are the principles that I lived in

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terms of what makes me effective as a person, what

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makes relationships this is effective. And I just kept extrapolating

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that into the framework.

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So that's just such a solid fundage for us to

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stand on now for help our listeners and viewers better

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understand why this works so well. And let's go back

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to Catherine. She really was a reluctant CEO, and yet,

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of course, as I was delighted in, we see her

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grow so much over the course of the book, which

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is a reason why you and I probably both do

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the work that we do, because it's such as I

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don't know a better drug than to be able to

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help facilitate the work and transformation in another human being.

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I just don't know. And so what's interesting is she walks,

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she steps into this role. She's got a very different

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leadership style than her father, who hadn't by all accounts,

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a much more command and control sort of approach to leading,

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and his employees became dependent on that. They wanted his

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direction for them to tell him move the just piece

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over here and move it that far back kind of thing.

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So what that does, which is really interesting and so

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important for us to presence for our listeners and viewers,

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it's just how important that creates a sense of dependency

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in the employees, a learned helplessness. So if you could

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speak a little bit of that, she was dealing with

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that too in the beginning, also with Jason and Charlie,

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she was dealing with that.

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You yes. So it's a very common buy called the

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byproduct of the machine paradigm. Right, the leader is the

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one that's supposed to figure out what needs to be

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done and more or less how to do it, and

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the other thing leaders are geared towards. This gets a

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little complex, but think of it like this. I'm a

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charge of sales, so I'm Jason, I'm charge of sales.

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My focus is to optimize sales performance. I'm trolley, and

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I'm supposed to optimize operational performance. And I've got certain

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criteria such as quality, right, that requires me to achieve

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my goals and Jason as his goals and your qualities.

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So what you find in these kind of silo oriented

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conflicts is one person saying yeah, I understand, but and

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the other one's going, well, I know, we got to

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make sales. But and what you got is this whole orientation.

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Guess who has to resolve it? The leader. And so

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now the leaders are pressured with trying to get the

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silos to work together. What Merlin comes in and does

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is helps Charlie see how Jason's goals compliment his goals,

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and get Jacon to see how Charlie's goals complement his goals.

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So all of a sudden, now the two are working together,

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helping each other as if they had one goal, the

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success of the company. And see in the mechanistic approach,

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the goal setting methodology, if you will orientce people the bonus,

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the rewarded their acknowledged for achieving the goals that their

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department is given, and that inherently crease the silo. You

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can't break the silo unless you break the way you

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think about relationship in the living organization framework. And what

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Merlin does it brings Charlie and Jason together into a

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single goal, a joint goal recognizing that they're interdependent. They're

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like an ecosystem. They rely on each other, and that's

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that's the shift that happens, and it's beautiful.

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I also like that part of what you include here,

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of course, one of your prints, part of your frame

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concludes this idea of drawing from improv, which you know.

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I'm a fan of things. I take improv and I

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take an in part because of what you put forth

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in the book, because it helps me develop a greater

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ability to be present, to listen, to respond, to be creative.

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And so part of what that entails for your model

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is making the other person look good. So looking for

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what's good and right and past. You know the obvious,

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which is Norman, you didn't do your part. That's why

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we're not where we're at because you didn't do your part.

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That's right.

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So talk a little bit about this notion of making

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the other party look good in order to be able

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to create that stronger, unified one.

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Well, if you look at God, there was a there's

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a little clip I use in my training that's by

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Herbie Man talking about God. I can't think of the

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musician's name now, No, Herbie Hancock talking about this famous

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trumpet play. I can't his name's not come into my mind.

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I apologize, and Herbie Man's going, you know, Miles Davis,

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that's what is. And we're going about how playing one

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of Miles Davis really grooves and we're all in this

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groove and I'm playing on it a keyboard and I

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hit the wrong chord and I just go, oh, but Miles,

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Miles just pauses for a second and he takes my

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mistake and makes it right. Just imagine if we did that.

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That's the notion of him. That's a wonderful example. And

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Mileston and say, Herby, what's the matter with you? That's

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not the right note? You know the right note? How

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are you're doing it all wrong? Instead, he just said,

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we've got a where a week. We're collective and we've

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all got to help each other make it work. That's

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what Jason and Charlie does eventually, is they learn how

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to make it work. It doesn't matter who's got the problem.

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It's just a wee problem. And that's the essence of

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make the other look good and all the improvisation. You know, life.

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We can't predict what's going to happen in the machine paradigm.

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We like predictability, my goals, I got my plan. Something

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comes along and interrupts it. That's the bad thing, the interruption.

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The interruption is Charlie and Jason's going to be really

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upset and he's going to keep pointing to Charlie because

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that's the interruption. But life isn't like that. Life is unpredictable.

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So improvisation allows me to, oh, that's something new I

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didn't plan. How do we now work on that together

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to move forward. That's what Miles Davis did when Herbie

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Hancock made that terrible mistake and it was just Herbie

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Hancock says, it's like taking poison and turning it into wine.

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Well, let's let our listeners and viewers reflect on that

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for just a second. We're going to take our first break.

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So listeners and viewers, I want you to think about

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this notion of how that capacity to practice improv for

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making the other version look good fits and so works

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so beautifully in today's most uncertain times. Definitely uncertain today.

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I'm Elice Cortez. We've run on the air with Norman Wolf.

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He is the founder and CEO of Quantum Leader and

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the creator of the Living Organization, which is a framework

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that replaces machine thinking with the leadership model grounded and

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how organizations actually work. We've been diving into his brand

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new book that would coming out of September of twenty

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twenty six. After break, will continue on with part of

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his next tool his toolkit in his framework will be

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right back.

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Doctor Elise Cortez is a management consultant specializing in meaning

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and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies

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visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

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leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

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commitment within the workforce. To learn more, or to invite

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at least to speak to your organization, please visit her

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at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

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your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose

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is with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today

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or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email

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to Elise alisee at elisecortes dot com. Now back to

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working on Purpose.

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Thanksteresting with us, and welcome back to working on Purpose.

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I am your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as I am

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dedicated to help them create a world where organizations thrive

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because their people thrive. They're led by inspirational leaders that

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help them find and contribute their greatness, and we find

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ways to do business that betters the world. I keep

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researching and writing my own books. So one of my

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ladies came out is called The Great Revitalization. How activating

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meaning and purpose can radically and livelate your business. And

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I wrote it to help leaders understand today's very discerning workforce.

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What do they want and need from you to figure

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their best and want to stick around? And then I'll

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provide you twenty two best practices to equip you to

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provide it through your leadership and your culture. You can

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find my books on Amazon or my personal site police

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Coortes dot com if you are just now joining us.

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I guess as Norman Wolfe's the co author with his

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wife Jane of The Sooner we release book Leading the

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Living Organization Transform, How you lead to deliver extraordinary results.

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So what I would love to do next for our

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listener computers as we talk here, Norman, I just want

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to give them little snippets of some of the tools

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that you provide in the book and I really like

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your ARC framework. Can you talk to us about the

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ARC work?

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The ARC stands for activity, relationship and context. And the

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way it came aback is as I was mulling over

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this notion of shifting the paradigm to think of an

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organizational person, the natural next question is how does a

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person create the outcomes they desire it? And so this

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now becomes a combination of years and years of study

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into multiple fields of human endeavor. So it came down

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for me three things. One mo is I have to

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do stuff right. If I want to build a bookcase,

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I plan out the bookcase, I go by the wood,

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I cut the word, I assemble it, stain it. You

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do stuff right. In business, we make our plans, reorganize, restructure,

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we set goals. We have you know what I call

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the field of activity in the machine paradigm. That's enough,

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that's what you worry about it, and you worry about optimizing

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the activity if you will make it as efficient as possible.

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But humans activity field, if you think about it, and

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you think about it sort of like energetic, the quality

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of the relationships I'm in has a huge impact on

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whether my energy goes up or goes down. And what

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you have to do is think about having a significant

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disagreement with your kids, or your wife, or your dog

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is at the or any relationship issue in your life,

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and your focus. Your energy is going to be drained.

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It's going to come down. If you're in an environment

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that's got lots of conflict or resistance, anything that blocks

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your energy or consumes your energy, your activity goes down.

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Go the other way, and you have an environment where

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you're appreciated, support it, you feel safe. You know, we

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talk about psychological safety. Your energy goes up, so your

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activity goes up. Right. It's just a very simple formula.

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So activity and relationship the third part of it. And

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this is an attribute that makes living people a living organization,

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as I like to call it, different than a living

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system in that humans have this desire to understand the

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experiences we have. We want to give it meaning primarily,

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so we create behaviors that we feel will make us

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safe or successful for both ideally and over time. We

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collect those what I call narrative stories or meaning making

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stories and associate behaviors. They sort of connect each other

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like peers. I looked at it like it's like a

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psychic DNA. We have our genetic DNA, our physiological DNA,

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but we also have sort of a psychic DNA, and

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I call that a context. So we've got activity, relationship,

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and context. And the interesting thing is, if you think

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about trying to achieve a goal an outcome, we optimize

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our lives to create, to behave in ways. Let me

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put it this way, respond to life events that gives

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us a high probability of getting what we want, and

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that instruction set on how to do that. That set

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of psychic DNA is what is the context. So if

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you think about I'm optimized my behavior for outcome A,

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and now I want to start doing outcome B, I

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have to change my behaviors, which is both activity and relationship.

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But to do that, I have to change my context.

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So context is really the driving force and how we

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end up creating our outcomes. That's the very engineering way

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of talking about a lot of psychological principles if you will,

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which I'm sure you can read into the improd all,

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but that's really what's going on. So when I looked

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at the organizations, I said, do organizations have relationships? Right?

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We know they do filos effects for example, it's conflict

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and relationship between two living people, right, Charlie is in.

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It's not just Charlie and Jason. It's the sales zone

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organization and the operational organization. They have a certain persona.

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They interact with each other at levels other than Charlie

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and Jason, Jason or the VP of any department. It's

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just sort of the voice of that person, that collective person.

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So certainly there's relationship dynamics, but the organizations also developed

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the context and we call that, you know, how we

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do things around here or culture. The culture is actually

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evolves out of the collective psychic DNA, the psychic context.

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So those are the three key framing to help leaders

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understand what's really driving results. If we just focus on

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the activity as the machine paradigm structure us to do,

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we keep trying to push the levers and change the kpisis,

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reorganize ourselves and optimize that activity. But we're not paying

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attention to the relationship dynamics in a way that makes

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it effective, and we're not paying attention to the context.

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And when we do. In a lot of the books

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that you and I often talk about, it gets implemented

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through a very mechanistic approach which undermines the very essence

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of what the things we're being taught to. That's why

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I finally realized buck Mister Fuller once said, don't try

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to fix the problems in the old paradigm, create a

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new one and let the old one die. Yeah, that's

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what I finally decided. We had to do the paradigm itself.

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See through a new lens, if you will see the

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world differently, and that opens up a whole lot of

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different And that's what Catherine goes through in the second

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part of the book, and after watching Merlin weave his magic,

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she says, I don't want to learn how to do that.

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Yeah, yeah, she does it beautifully. To illustrate this, one

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of the things I wanted to talk about was Charlotte's challenge.

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She is the customer she's heading up customer service, and

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now she's come to Merlin through Catherine because her problem

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is her whole team is demoralized because they feel like

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this new approach to the training, which has been an

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adaptation to what they were doing in the with live

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physical training and moving into the online format, they had

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to find a way to make that stick and in

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so doing, there were problems and how some of that stuff.

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A lot of the users have questions and such, and

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so Charlotte's team is like feeling overwhelmed with the number

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of questions they're fielding, with the kinds of questions they're fielding,

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and they feel like they've been dumped on. So now

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she gets the opportunity to be able to create this

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whole contextual reframe that you're talking about. So let's talk

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a little bit about what that looked like, how before

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what she was dealing with before Merlin came in to

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help her, and how she was helped to see Because

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this is smack on our world, Norman. This whole reframe

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context stuff is how we also help activate meeting and organizations.

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Absolutely absolutely yeah. So as you said, Charlotte has this

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certain orientation. So as these customer support organization involved over

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the years, they formed what was a set of beliefs

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or context of how we should behave, how we should respond,

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and it's designed to make things work better. In the past,

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when you had in person training, a lot of the

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issues that clients would have would get solved or talk

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to the in person trainer. Now they're doing online training

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and now all those questions are coming into Charlotte's organization,

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and like you said, they all feel overwhelmed. But they're

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overwhelmed because they're looking at the way they view their

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job through a different set of responsibilities and a different

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lens of what's important. So I believe I remember correctly.

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Merlin suggests that Charlotte refrain the whole purpose of why

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this department exists from just handling support issues to I

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think it's something along the line that we're here to

462
00:29:10.839 --> 00:29:12.039
create better leaders.

463
00:29:12.160 --> 00:29:14.240
Yeah, we're here to hear here, we're here to create

464
00:29:14.359 --> 00:29:17.240
great leaders, great leaders. Big difference between we're here to

465
00:29:17.240 --> 00:29:19.319
solve solve problems and support people.

466
00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:22.640
That's right, very different. So on one hand, it's all

467
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:25.119
we have to do is support people. On the other hand,

468
00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:28.440
we're here to create great leaders. And so they did

469
00:29:28.519 --> 00:29:31.559
put in place all of the skill training that these

470
00:29:31.680 --> 00:29:34.720
people needed, but they saw that as an addition to,

471
00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:39.240
not the core purpose of the job. So making that

472
00:29:39.279 --> 00:29:40.799
reframing changed everything.

473
00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:44.119
And then you're added the scaffolding to help hold it

474
00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:47.599
up right, stain that that new which is where we're

475
00:29:47.640 --> 00:29:51.000
celebrating what the customer service reps are doing to solve

476
00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:54.440
these problems and how they're really highlighting how these customers

477
00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:56.920
are using the training to be able to impact the

478
00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:00.400
change in the organization, So that scaffolding is really important too.

479
00:30:00.839 --> 00:30:04.480
Yeah, and scaffolding comes into two styles. One is what

480
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:08.039
they call physical or structural scaffolding, but the other part

481
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:13.119
of it is ritual. These minor gatherings with an intention

482
00:30:13.279 --> 00:30:17.640
to celebrate successes and to give me give new meaning

483
00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:20.359
to the words we're living and putting words on the

484
00:30:20.359 --> 00:30:23.720
boat on the wall saying we're here to make great

485
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:28.400
leaders is not kind of really it'll be an aha

486
00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:31.079
moment for brief, But to sustain that you have to

487
00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:36.079
give it structure and support, and so ritual becomes a

488
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:37.319
part of that scaffolding.

489
00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:42.319
So from our advantage point to support that scaffolding would

490
00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:46.839
be we help develop managers who manage their meaning. They're

491
00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:50.440
holding up that foundational floor so that people can stand

492
00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:52.400
on that to be able to celebrate, to have a

493
00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:56.319
space and a psychological safety to celebrate that, and then

494
00:30:56.519 --> 00:30:59.720
right to then to be rewarded for living the purpose

495
00:30:59.720 --> 00:31:03.240
of the organization through those behaviors and those actions. And

496
00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:05.920
that is so so important. That way the whole team

497
00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:09.599
hangs together or the whole organization hangs together as one,

498
00:31:10.039 --> 00:31:13.279
unified by kind of a common heartbeat and something that's

499
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:14.480
important to all of them.

500
00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:18.839
Yeah. Absolutely, And when you when you send a context

501
00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:22.079
like that, and if you even think about what Jason

502
00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:27.000
and Charlie ended up creating, they reframed the context of

503
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:30.640
what the relationship is all about. Yes, when you reframe

504
00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:32.839
the context, you're creating a new container.

505
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:33.519
Yes.

506
00:31:33.640 --> 00:31:36.640
And within that new container people are free to operate

507
00:31:36.839 --> 00:31:40.759
knowing they're going to be successful. And so were sending

508
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:45.039
the context is really a critical skill. And I know

509
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:47.400
a lot of the work you do is on purpose,

510
00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:50.559
it's all centered around that very element.

511
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:54.039
It is it is. So let's grab our last break

512
00:31:54.039 --> 00:31:56.079
while we let our listeners and viewers let that idea

513
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:58.720
sink in how they can start to reframe context in

514
00:31:58.759 --> 00:32:02.039
their organization and they're teams. We are on the air

515
00:32:02.119 --> 00:32:07.440
with Norman Wolf. He is the co founder of Quantum

516
00:32:07.519 --> 00:32:09.880
leaders and a creator of the Living Organization, which is

517
00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:13.640
a framework that replaces machine thinking with a leadership model

518
00:32:13.640 --> 00:32:17.160
grounded in how organizations actually work. We've been diving into

519
00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:19.880
some of the principles that he and his wife Jana

520
00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:22.200
put into this beautiful book. After the rape, we will

521
00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:24.240
continue giving you a few more of those pearls when

522
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:24.839
be right back.

523
00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:44.359
Doctor Elise Courts is a management consultant specializing in meaning

524
00:32:44.440 --> 00:32:48.240
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies

525
00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:51.640
visioneer for a greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose

526
00:32:51.680 --> 00:32:56.039
inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance

527
00:32:56.079 --> 00:32:59.119
and commitment within the workforce. To learn more, or to

528
00:32:59.160 --> 00:33:02.079
invite at least to be to your organization, please visit

529
00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:05.319
her at Eliscortes dot com. Let's talk about how to

530
00:33:05.319 --> 00:33:13.880
get your employees working on purpose. This is working on

531
00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:17.480
Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today

532
00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:20.359
or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email

533
00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:21.359
to Elise A.

534
00:33:21.759 --> 00:33:23.519
L i Se at.

535
00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:27.359
Eliscortes dot com. Now back to working on Purpose.

536
00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:34.519
Th interesting with us and welcome back to working on Purpose.

537
00:33:34.519 --> 00:33:37.079
I'm your host, Doctor release Cortes. I mentioned in my

538
00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:39.480
last book came out the Greater Revitalization. What I did

539
00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:41.640
for you is I created a very simple assessment that

540
00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:44.720
you can pull off my website usterdashnow dot com and

541
00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:47.720
you can go through the three pages and fill out

542
00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:50.200
to what extent your organization is actually meeting the needs

543
00:33:50.240 --> 00:33:53.960
of today's discerning standards among the workforce. Very very rootey

544
00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:56.720
revealing if you are just now joining us. My guest

545
00:33:56.839 --> 00:33:58.599
is Norman Wolfe. He is the co author with his

546
00:33:58.680 --> 00:34:03.079
wife Jane, soon released book Leading the Living Organization Transform,

547
00:34:03.160 --> 00:34:07.319
How you lead to deliver extraordinary results. So we have

548
00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:10.199
to at least also help our listeners and viewers understand

549
00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:13.880
the six core skills of the living organization. Let's do

550
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:14.559
that next.

551
00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:25.159
Well, the six course skills started with two things. Two

552
00:34:25.159 --> 00:34:29.480
things happen. One was when you're dealing with people with

553
00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:32.960
communications is obviously one of the most critical skills you have,

554
00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:42.559
but this communication in this communication right. And the second

555
00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:47.119
challenge we talked about uncertainty and how improv helps with

556
00:34:47.159 --> 00:34:52.280
that and the complexity and ambiguity and you know, the

557
00:34:52.360 --> 00:34:54.800
VUKA world that we've all been talking about now for

558
00:34:54.880 --> 00:34:59.039
over a decade. So I began to ask the question,

559
00:34:59.239 --> 00:35:05.440
what skill to leaders need to navigate the world if

560
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:07.440
they're going to navigate it through the lens of a

561
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:11.280
living organization that we're dealing with a living person. And

562
00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:15.079
one of the absolute most foundational skill is we have

563
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:18.760
to when we're dealing with people, connection is important. When

564
00:35:18.760 --> 00:35:23.159
we're dealing with uncertainty, insight and intuition is important. So

565
00:35:23.199 --> 00:35:27.039
how can we how can we learn how to do

566
00:35:27.239 --> 00:35:30.159
more than wait for that aha moment in the shower?

567
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:32.599
How can we How can we take a challenge and

568
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:35.280
look at it through a different lens that facilitates that

569
00:35:35.360 --> 00:35:38.960
Aha moment that we've all experienced and in my in

570
00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:42.760
my world, in my life experiences, I've learned some skills

571
00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:48.719
uh meditation and other skills, but there's one one process

572
00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:54.760
I learned called heart centering. And what I discovered is

573
00:35:54.760 --> 00:36:00.159
when I go into that state within myself, one I

574
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:05.000
have more patience with other people. Two, I can my

575
00:36:05.199 --> 00:36:08.400
own defense mechanism drops, and I can listen to other

576
00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:12.880
people from where they're coming from. I can share who

577
00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:17.199
I am as I am without the need to defend myself.

578
00:36:18.440 --> 00:36:22.840
I also find that that's the sort of the gateway

579
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:32.639
into intuition, inspiration inside just gain this this different set

580
00:36:32.679 --> 00:36:36.920
of information to help me with complex decisions. I learned

581
00:36:36.920 --> 00:36:40.960
that through a very different, very ritualistic or spiritual process

582
00:36:41.480 --> 00:36:44.960
train not spiritual in the religious sense, but sort of

583
00:36:44.960 --> 00:36:49.079
a training in deep deep work. Part of it was.

584
00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:51.360
I call it psycho spiritual because part of it was

585
00:36:51.719 --> 00:36:56.239
ritual and part of it was psychological. A lot of

586
00:36:56.280 --> 00:37:01.000
Youngian models use but I knew I couldn't leaders on

587
00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:04.679
a twelve day retreat where there was fasting in silence

588
00:37:05.159 --> 00:37:08.360
to teach them how to open the heart center, I

589
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:13.280
think to get to be able to access that capability.

590
00:37:14.119 --> 00:37:16.400
I was giving a talk one day and I just

591
00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:19.559
decided to do an experiment. I said, everybody has an

592
00:37:19.599 --> 00:37:22.880
experience of being loved, and that feeling when I'm in

593
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:25.679
that heart center is that feeling I have when I'm loved.

594
00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:28.800
So I ran a little experiment just asking people to

595
00:37:28.840 --> 00:37:34.159
close their eyes, bring back a moment when and then

596
00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:37.840
look at the challenge they're facing from that problem. And

597
00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:42.280
the responses are phenomena in eight minutes eight minutes. So

598
00:37:42.320 --> 00:37:44.519
I said, Okay, I think I know how to help

599
00:37:44.559 --> 00:37:47.880
the leaders at least begin to experience what it's like

600
00:37:47.920 --> 00:37:50.079
and give them the sense they can do that. So

601
00:37:50.519 --> 00:37:53.559
we have a training on heart centering. With that as

602
00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:59.480
the foundation, you now have heart centered communication, which allows

603
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:04.599
you to have that connected communication, not just factual communication.

604
00:38:06.880 --> 00:38:08.199
And if you want to know what that's like, if

605
00:38:08.239 --> 00:38:11.280
anybody in the audience knows about active listening, which has

606
00:38:11.280 --> 00:38:15.559
been around for decades. Think about active listening, that same process,

607
00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:18.039
but done from being in the heart center, where you

608
00:38:18.119 --> 00:38:21.000
have compassion and empathy for yourself and the other you're

609
00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:23.920
talking to. So those are the first two skills. The

610
00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:27.920
third is this whole notion of reframing the context, which

611
00:38:28.119 --> 00:38:32.480
requires that heart centered communication so you can be with

612
00:38:32.519 --> 00:38:35.639
the other person in a way that you understand that narrative.

613
00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:39.599
If you look what Merlin does throughout a lot of

614
00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:45.480
the look, he's really teaching that place to open up

615
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:49.760
to understand the other person's context and relate to it

616
00:38:49.880 --> 00:38:54.599
and then begin to share context context. So reframing context

617
00:38:54.880 --> 00:38:58.000
requires those first two skills, and of course in that

618
00:38:58.199 --> 00:39:00.599
is the skill of storytelling and ritual, which is part

619
00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:03.480
of that scaffolding that we talked about. Then we move

620
00:39:03.519 --> 00:39:06.719
into improv mindset. But we talked about why that's important

621
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:15.480
balancing opposites because we deal in an ambiguous world. And

622
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:19.239
and I actually learned this from Barry Johnson's work on

623
00:39:19.320 --> 00:39:24.599
polarity thinking, where he was able to show how opposites,

624
00:39:24.880 --> 00:39:29.639
if you correctly, become compliments and they balance each other

625
00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:33.159
and so I call it balancing opposites. And then the

626
00:39:33.199 --> 00:39:37.800
other skills really balls around the ability to coach people.

627
00:39:38.599 --> 00:39:42.039
A lot of the work, a lot of the leader's

628
00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:44.320
role in the future is that they're taking on a

629
00:39:44.360 --> 00:39:49.719
developmental orientation, absolutely right, And so how do you how

630
00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:53.159
do you how do people learn? What gets in the

631
00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:58.440
way of growing? How do you put growth into a

632
00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:03.039
time based game? If I think about developing my kids,

633
00:40:03.400 --> 00:40:06.159
it takes two years, if it takes three years, five years,

634
00:40:06.199 --> 00:40:09.079
it's okay as long as they get there. But in business,

635
00:40:09.079 --> 00:40:13.199
we've got this dimension called time. We don't know that

636
00:40:13.480 --> 00:40:15.960
the marketplace may not allow us to have five years

637
00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:20.159
to grow. How do you want to stand the developmental

638
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:24.960
process for people in the time based environment, which is

639
00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:27.320
a very important thing for leaders. And then the coaching

640
00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:30.800
skills necessary to have those conversations. So those are the

641
00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:36.159
six skills. The heart centering, heart center, communication, reframing contexts

642
00:40:36.159 --> 00:40:41.000
in from mindset, balancing opposites, and then developing people.

643
00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:43.760
Who just do those that's all I do.

644
00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:46.559
Those all good, That's why I how to write a

645
00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:47.360
whole book.

646
00:40:48.400 --> 00:40:50.519
Right right, And we'll see after lunch it's all good,

647
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:55.079
so so good. Norman just so good. I just like

648
00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:58.440
I said, there was so much alignment with, of course,

649
00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:00.840
what we do as well here, and so I do

650
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:02.679
want to talk about this idea of the coach otent

651
00:41:03.239 --> 00:41:05.400
coach ultin that you talk about, but before we do that,

652
00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:07.679
I really would be remiss if we didn't also talk

653
00:41:07.719 --> 00:41:10.800
about this idea of emotions as frequencies. And of course

654
00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:13.880
I also read David Hawkins's work which you reference in

655
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:16.000
the book as part of how this comes from for you,

656
00:41:16.599 --> 00:41:18.559
I think this is a really great idea to help

657
00:41:18.599 --> 00:41:23.480
listeners and viewers understand just how potent emotions are. So

658
00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:25.360
if you could say a little bit about this idea

659
00:41:25.400 --> 00:41:27.559
of emotions as frequencies.

660
00:41:27.039 --> 00:41:31.119
And why an organization, As you said, a lot of

661
00:41:31.159 --> 00:41:33.800
people have been working on this. I think the first

662
00:41:33.800 --> 00:41:38.559
person I read it from was David hawkins book Power

663
00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:44.000
Versus for Us Mind too. Yeah, yeah, So the way

664
00:41:44.079 --> 00:41:47.360
I understood this work was to relate it personally, and

665
00:41:48.280 --> 00:41:51.079
what does it feel like in the body when I

666
00:41:51.159 --> 00:41:56.280
am upset versus when I am anxious, versus when I

667
00:41:56.320 --> 00:42:02.039
am calm versus when I am joyful. Body feels differently,

668
00:42:02.079 --> 00:42:09.639
and we give those feeling tones a name, a label. Well,

669
00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:15.119
those feeling tones are really body vibrating out of frequency.

670
00:42:16.039 --> 00:42:23.360
And so when we are feeling anxious, and this again

671
00:42:23.440 --> 00:42:29.360
comes from other people's work, feeling anxious, defensive, scared, fearful,

672
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:33.440
body shuts down. We're vibrating at a very low frequency

673
00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:38.480
and in that frequency where we have very limited capacity

674
00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:43.280
to see anything other than defensiveness. When we're in the

675
00:42:43.360 --> 00:42:55.599
in the upper quadrant, so to speak, when we're into appreciation, peace, calm, joy, love, bliss, uh,

676
00:42:56.119 --> 00:42:58.880
the bodies in a whole different state, much more open

677
00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:05.320
and receptive. It also plays out in relationships, right because

678
00:43:06.679 --> 00:43:10.599
well a simple thing. You ever walk in and sense

679
00:43:10.679 --> 00:43:13.320
that something's wrong with a friend or your spouse or

680
00:43:14.280 --> 00:43:17.760
a child, and you go, what's the matter, honey, and

681
00:43:17.840 --> 00:43:23.079
you go nothing, it's fine, And you know there's no

682
00:43:23.199 --> 00:43:27.000
truth in that statement. If I just followed the words,

683
00:43:27.199 --> 00:43:30.840
if I followed the active listening, I would say, oh,

684
00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:34.360
I hear, you're fine, thank you, But I don't. There's

685
00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:39.119
something inside of me. I'm literally like an antenna frequency

686
00:43:39.159 --> 00:43:44.239
of what they're transmitted. I'm also an antenna transmitting a

687
00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:48.079
frequency when I speak. So I can get up there

688
00:43:48.119 --> 00:43:51.079
and say all the words I want about whatever it

689
00:43:51.159 --> 00:43:54.000
is and how great we're doing. But the audience is

690
00:43:54.039 --> 00:43:58.880
actually picking up my frequency. We call it the I

691
00:43:59.000 --> 00:44:01.920
like to say, it's not words or the lyrics of

692
00:44:01.960 --> 00:44:06.679
the song that we remember, it's the music. And so

693
00:44:06.840 --> 00:44:08.400
that's the notion behind it.

694
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:12.800
It's powerful situations beautifully so that for listeners of viewers,

695
00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:15.199
the capacity to be able to read that as a

696
00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:18.559
leader is often called a tunement. Right, So your capacity

697
00:44:18.599 --> 00:44:21.199
to be able to tune into those around you to

698
00:44:21.320 --> 00:44:25.280
you know, to catch that vibrant vibrancy gauge versus listening

699
00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:27.440
to the words, they say, it's really a critical skill.

700
00:44:28.199 --> 00:44:31.280
You've also heard yours if I in you've also heard

701
00:44:31.280 --> 00:44:35.880
the notion of setting the tone at the top, right, Well,

702
00:44:36.480 --> 00:44:39.360
people don't think about that from a frequency and energy

703
00:44:39.400 --> 00:44:42.519
frequency point of view. That's really what it is. We

704
00:44:42.599 --> 00:44:47.280
are constantly sending the tone. Mostly we're doing it unconsciously.

705
00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:49.960
And we want you to be more conscious about that, right,

706
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:53.840
We want you to be conscious about that. So we

707
00:44:54.039 --> 00:44:55.800
just have like maybe a couple of minutes here, but

708
00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:58.119
I would love for you just to introduce this idea

709
00:44:58.119 --> 00:45:02.639
of refinding the leadership, redefining leadership through the coach ultant lens.

710
00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:04.280
So just say a little bit about that if you

711
00:45:04.280 --> 00:45:06.639
would kind of chew it up for listeners and viewers

712
00:45:06.639 --> 00:45:07.599
before they read the book.

713
00:45:09.800 --> 00:45:12.159
I came about that in my own career because I

714
00:45:12.280 --> 00:45:16.440
was always caught between two worlds. One is the consultants world.

715
00:45:16.440 --> 00:45:20.119
The consultants world is somebody who comes in and it

716
00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:24.480
gives people the advice they need to get things done.

717
00:45:25.480 --> 00:45:28.519
The other world, I mean, is a coach's world, right,

718
00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:30.719
because my goal is to help people be able to

719
00:45:30.719 --> 00:45:35.079
do it on their own. Well, I saw a parallel

720
00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:38.559
in that between the leader's role in today's world. Most

721
00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:42.199
leaders view the job as being the one to help

722
00:45:42.239 --> 00:45:44.880
people be successful, and for me to do that, I

723
00:45:44.920 --> 00:45:47.880
have to tell them what to do when they're stuck.

724
00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:53.280
I got to help them through it, and that's a

725
00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:55.480
consultants role. When you're stuck, I'm going to come in

726
00:45:55.519 --> 00:45:56.840
and help you. That's what you're going to pay for.

727
00:45:58.679 --> 00:46:05.760
But doing that prevents any development, so I keep them

728
00:46:06.039 --> 00:46:08.599
stuck and dependent on me. We talked about dependency at

729
00:46:08.599 --> 00:46:10.760
the very beginning. Yes, so to do that, you want

730
00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:14.599
to be able to coach. The challenge is you got

731
00:46:14.599 --> 00:46:18.000
to know when to do, which role to take on.

732
00:46:18.079 --> 00:46:20.519
At what point in time and what does it So

733
00:46:20.599 --> 00:46:23.159
a leader's role is really one of a coach and

734
00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:27.440
a consultants coach consultant, and that's the balancing we try

735
00:46:27.480 --> 00:46:29.840
to teach in our coaching modules.

736
00:46:31.199 --> 00:46:33.719
So good, Norman, I really, of course, you know, I've

737
00:46:33.760 --> 00:46:35.000
been a fan of yours, and you and I've been

738
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:37.360
friends for several years now, and I really can't wait

739
00:46:37.400 --> 00:46:39.000
for this book to come out and get into handsome

740
00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:41.159
more listeners and viewers who need this need this kind

741
00:46:41.159 --> 00:46:43.239
of instruction, and it's so you made it easy for

742
00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:46.320
us to learn through your book. You probably might remember

743
00:46:46.360 --> 00:46:48.360
this shows listen to by people around the world who

744
00:46:48.400 --> 00:46:50.639
will tune in because they want to become a better

745
00:46:50.719 --> 00:46:52.880
version of themselves as a human, and they want to

746
00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:54.920
become a better version as a leader. What would you

747
00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:55.679
like to leave them.

748
00:46:55.519 --> 00:47:02.760
With, I would say, first of all, except the fact

749
00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:08.800
that you're stuck in a paradigm trap. And I want

750
00:47:08.840 --> 00:47:13.079
to acknowledge first and foremost, shifting the paradigm is not

751
00:47:13.400 --> 00:47:17.320
an intellectual game. People will understand what I write, They

752
00:47:17.320 --> 00:47:21.719
will understand that intellectually, but it's very difficult to shift

753
00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:26.800
one's paradigm. And for this reason, the belief system, the

754
00:47:26.840 --> 00:47:30.039
framework we have, the context field, the psychic DNA that

755
00:47:30.079 --> 00:47:33.239
we've developed, was designed to make us successful. It's what

756
00:47:33.320 --> 00:47:39.480
got us here, very difficult to abandon. That second thing

757
00:47:39.519 --> 00:47:41.599
I would leave them is learn how the heart center,

758
00:47:42.239 --> 00:47:44.880
because as I said earlier, heart centering gives you the

759
00:47:44.920 --> 00:47:48.119
ability to not only deal with things around you, but

760
00:47:48.199 --> 00:47:51.719
things within you. You can see that shift and you

761
00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:55.599
can feel the sadness of some part of you going

762
00:47:55.639 --> 00:47:58.719
away and the fear of going in a new direction

763
00:47:59.239 --> 00:48:04.840
and stepping in to that anyway. So paradigm shift, thought center.

764
00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:08.400
So let's go to me, Norman. I really appreciate you

765
00:48:08.599 --> 00:48:11.360
writing this second book and the trilogy ye one More

766
00:48:11.400 --> 00:48:14.119
to Go, No Pressure, and we'll come back and talk

767
00:48:14.119 --> 00:48:17.320
about that as well. Okay, listeners, a viewer, you're going

768
00:48:17.360 --> 00:48:19.199
to want to learn more about Norman Wolf, the work

769
00:48:19.239 --> 00:48:21.840
that he and his team do at Quantum Leaders, and

770
00:48:21.960 --> 00:48:25.320
this second book that he and Jane have written leading

771
00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:28.400
the Living Organization. You can start by visiting their website

772
00:48:28.480 --> 00:48:33.599
it is the Living Organization dot com. Last week, if

773
00:48:33.639 --> 00:48:35.039
you missed the live show, you can always catch a

774
00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:37.519
via recorded podcast. Who Were on Air with Steve Brown,

775
00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:41.079
a leading voice and a conversation on artificial intelligence. He

776
00:48:41.159 --> 00:48:44.800
is a former executive at Google, DeepMind and Intel, and

777
00:48:44.840 --> 00:48:48.719
he has delivered hundreds of engaging, information rich keynotes across

778
00:48:48.760 --> 00:48:52.400
the continents, inspiring audiences to take action with AI. We

779
00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:55.679
talked about his latest book, The AI Ultimatum, Preparing for

780
00:48:55.719 --> 00:48:59.960
a world of Intelligent Machines and radical transformation. Incredibly I owe.

781
00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:02.800
I highly encourage you all to grab that episode. You

782
00:49:02.880 --> 00:49:06.039
need to hear what this man has to say. Next

783
00:49:06.039 --> 00:49:08.199
week will be on the air with Beth Wanner. She's

784
00:49:08.239 --> 00:49:11.480
the founder of mother Cover, a lead coverage agency that

785
00:49:11.559 --> 00:49:14.880
helps companies across the US and Canada manage parental and

786
00:49:14.920 --> 00:49:18.920
temporary leave without disrupting business or careers. Fantastic new concept,

787
00:49:19.079 --> 00:49:21.480
so so so important to meet the needs of today's

788
00:49:21.519 --> 00:49:24.760
dynamic workforce. See you then, and let's continue leaning in

789
00:49:24.800 --> 00:49:27.840
discovering how to elevate your operating system as a leader

790
00:49:28.119 --> 00:49:31.199
and create this nation workplaces where legendary business takes place.

791
00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:32.599
Let's Work on Purpose.

792
00:49:35.480 --> 00:49:38.119
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to

793
00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:41.800
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,

794
00:49:41.920 --> 00:49:45.159
each week on W four C. Why Together We'll create

795
00:49:45.199 --> 00:49:49.320
a world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires and passion

796
00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:52.440
performance and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the

797
00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:55.800
meaning and purpose they crave. See you there. Let's work

798
00:49:55.920 --> 00:49:56.599
on purpose.