Aug. 4, 2026

Why Work Sucks—and How a Results-Only Work Environment Can Finally Fix It

Why Work Sucks—and How a Results-Only Work Environment Can Finally Fix It
iHeartRadio podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon Amazon Music podcast player icon Audible podcast player icon Pandora podcast player icon Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Podchaser podcast player icon Deezer podcast player icon Audacy podcast player icon Youtube Music podcast player icon Spreaker podcast player icon Podcast Addict podcast player icon Castbox podcast player icon JioSaavn podcast player icon Castamatic podcast player icon Castro podcast player icon Fountain podcast player icon Goodpods podcast player icon Overcast podcast player icon PlayerFM podcast player icon PocketCasts podcast player icon Podimo podcast player icon Podurama podcast player icon Podverse podcast player icon Podyssey podcast player icon YouTube podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon
iHeartRadio podcast player icon Spotify podcast player icon Amazon Music podcast player icon Audible podcast player icon Pandora podcast player icon Apple Podcasts podcast player icon Podchaser podcast player icon Deezer podcast player icon Audacy podcast player icon Youtube Music podcast player icon Spreaker podcast player icon Podcast Addict podcast player icon Castbox podcast player icon JioSaavn podcast player icon Castamatic podcast player icon Castro podcast player icon Fountain podcast player icon Goodpods podcast player icon Overcast podcast player icon PlayerFM podcast player icon PocketCasts podcast player icon Podimo podcast player icon Podurama podcast player icon Podverse podcast player icon Podyssey podcast player icon YouTube podcast player icon RSS Feed podcast player icon

What if the problem with work isn’t people—but the way we measure them? In this episode, future-of-work pioneer Jody Thompson makes the case for a Results-Only Work Environment, where performance replaces presenteeism, trust replaces control, and adults are treated like adults. Leaders gain clearer accountability, stronger productivity, and retention; employees reclaim dignity, energy, and life. A serious invitation to rethink work entirely.

Working on Purpose is broadcast live Tuesdays at 6PM ET and Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Working on Purpose is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

Working on Purpose Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/working-on-purpose--2643411/support.

WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.319
The topics and opinions express in the following show are

2
00:00:02.319 --> 00:00:04.000
solely those of the hosts and their guests and not

3
00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:06.879
those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We

4
00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:10.160
make no recommendations or endorsements radio show, programs, services, or

5
00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:13.080
products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability

6
00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:15.720
explicit or implies shall be extended to W FOURCY Radio

7
00:00:15.800 --> 00:00:18.559
or its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments should be

8
00:00:18.640 --> 00:00:21.079
directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W

9
00:00:21.199 --> 00:00:22.440
FOURCY Radio.

10
00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:29.359
What's working on Purpose?

11
00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:32.719
Anyway? Each week we ponder the answer to this question.

12
00:00:33.159 --> 00:00:36.079
People ache for meaning and purpose at work, to contribute

13
00:00:36.079 --> 00:00:39.759
their talents passionately and know their lives really matter. They

14
00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:42.640
crave being part of an organization that inspires them and

15
00:00:42.679 --> 00:00:46.240
helps them grow into realizing their highest potential. Business can

16
00:00:46.280 --> 00:00:49.399
be such a force for good in the world, elevating humanity.

17
00:00:49.640 --> 00:00:52.759
In our program, we provide guidance and inspiration to help

18
00:00:52.840 --> 00:00:57.079
usher in this world we all want working on Purpose. Now,

19
00:00:57.200 --> 00:00:59.679
here's your host, doctor Elise Cortes.

20
00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:07.120
Welcome back to the Working and Purpose Program, which has

21
00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:09.079
been brought to you with passion and pride since February

22
00:01:09.079 --> 00:01:11.480
of twenty fifteen. Thanks for tuning in this week. Great

23
00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:14.560
to have you. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortez. Most

24
00:01:14.640 --> 00:01:17.400
leaders are sitting on untapped you and energy and capability.

25
00:01:17.480 --> 00:01:21.400
I help them unlock it. I'm an organizational psychologist, workforce advisor,

26
00:01:21.719 --> 00:01:24.239
vistage chair and the founder of the Gusto Now movement.

27
00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:26.680
But the title I live by each day is much simpler.

28
00:01:26.840 --> 00:01:30.200
I traffic and energy, not the surface level motivation or

29
00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:33.799
another engagement initiative, but the deeper force what I call Gusto,

30
00:01:34.120 --> 00:01:37.319
the life force for performance that drives commitment, perseverance, and

31
00:01:37.359 --> 00:01:39.760
genuine ownership of a shared mission in the clients we serve.

32
00:01:40.079 --> 00:01:41.519
You can learn more about and how we can work

33
00:01:41.560 --> 00:01:44.920
together at gusto dashnow dot com or my personal site

34
00:01:44.920 --> 00:01:47.560
at least coortes dot com for information on speaking and

35
00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:51.280
books with us. Today is Jodie Thompson. She is the

36
00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:55.000
founding principle of culture RX, based in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and

37
00:01:55.079 --> 00:01:58.560
a wild widely recognized voice on the future of work.

38
00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:02.200
She is known for helping companies rethink workplace, culture, leadership,

39
00:02:02.200 --> 00:02:06.000
and performance in ways that drive stronger results and lasting change.

40
00:02:06.120 --> 00:02:08.479
She's the co author of two books on water management

41
00:02:08.479 --> 00:02:11.599
and the work and workplace performance. They include Why managing

42
00:02:11.680 --> 00:02:14.439
Sucks and how to fix it? And Why work sucks

43
00:02:14.439 --> 00:02:16.960
and how to fix it. The results Only Revolution, which

44
00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:20.120
we'll be talking about today. Specifically, we'll be talking about

45
00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:23.919
the pervasive mindset that keep us stuck in the arena

46
00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:26.759
of work that sucks in the results only work environment

47
00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:29.159
that she and her team champion to help companies and

48
00:02:29.199 --> 00:02:32.039
their people stop playing the game, the sole second game

49
00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:35.199
of work and move toward trust and accountability to produce results.

50
00:02:35.520 --> 00:02:38.479
She shows us today from Minneapolis, Minnesota. Jody A hearty,

51
00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:41.479
Welcome to Working on Purpose, Elise.

52
00:02:41.560 --> 00:02:44.240
It's great to hear be here today and talk about

53
00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:47.479
this subject because I know it's still relevant. You know,

54
00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:49.560
it's been relevant for the last twenty five years, and

55
00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:52.199
we just have to keep making change.

56
00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:54.439
We do, and you are such a fantastic champion to

57
00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:57.840
do that. I'm so aligned with your book, you know. Oh,

58
00:02:57.840 --> 00:03:00.840
and I got to tell you this, Tody, because I

59
00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:03.560
do read my guest books cover to cover every single week,

60
00:03:03.639 --> 00:03:05.680
and then I take about twenty five to forty or

61
00:03:05.719 --> 00:03:08.159
fifty pages of typewritten notes, which is research for me.

62
00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:10.120
And you know, all this kind of good stuff. I

63
00:03:10.159 --> 00:03:11.400
do a lot of the reading when I'm at the

64
00:03:11.439 --> 00:03:13.840
gym on the bicycle stationary bicycle. So I bring this

65
00:03:13.879 --> 00:03:16.319
book in I think it was over the weekend, and

66
00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:18.639
I just start to set it down and since man

67
00:03:18.719 --> 00:03:21.080
sees this, and he comes screaming across the way at me.

68
00:03:21.159 --> 00:03:24.680
He goes, that's me, that's me. I'm like, what, your

69
00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:25.240
work sucks?

70
00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:29.159
He goes, Yeah, you know what, A lot of people say,

71
00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:31.759
work sucks. And it's funny because that title really kind

72
00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:35.080
of it energized a lot of people, but it also,

73
00:03:35.599 --> 00:03:37.719
you know, frankly, pissed off a lot of people.

74
00:03:38.159 --> 00:03:41.400
Yeah. Well, I'm really delighted to have you on. As

75
00:03:41.439 --> 00:03:42.919
we spoke before the break, you know, you and I

76
00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:45.639
have been connected for quite some time. I follow your posts,

77
00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:48.159
I align with your posts, and I too, am out

78
00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:52.240
to help organizations create what we call destination workplaces instead

79
00:03:52.280 --> 00:03:54.199
of the soul sucking experience that it is for so

80
00:03:54.240 --> 00:03:57.400
many people. And so I want to start with your

81
00:03:57.599 --> 00:04:00.120
simple premise in your book. And you know, let's talk

82
00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:02.360
about the fact that your book was written the first

83
00:04:02.360 --> 00:04:04.159
time of what two thousand and eight, not like we're

84
00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:06.120
talking about something that came out last year. You've been

85
00:04:06.120 --> 00:04:08.800
working on this for a while. But this simple premise

86
00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:11.280
is based on this on our beliefs about work, that

87
00:04:11.400 --> 00:04:15.080
forty hours Monday through Friday, eight to five, they're so outdated,

88
00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:18.120
out modeled and out to lunch, as you say, and

89
00:04:18.199 --> 00:04:21.639
there are waste of people's time, that their lives, their energy,

90
00:04:21.839 --> 00:04:25.360
and it's based on assumptions about work and how it

91
00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:28.000
gets how it gets done that doesn't fit today's twenty

92
00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:30.720
four to seven economy. So I mean, if we just

93
00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:32.759
start right there, and I definitely want to spend some

94
00:04:32.800 --> 00:04:36.120
time chewing on this because this mindset is the undergird

95
00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:36.680
of all of this.

96
00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:41.360
Well, it really is a cultural mindset that we've held

97
00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:47.199
since the fifties and that time plus presence equals results.

98
00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:49.639
So what we've managed to is we manage to the

99
00:04:49.680 --> 00:04:52.839
time clock and we managed to where people are working

100
00:04:52.879 --> 00:04:57.560
from and that right there, that foundation is the problem.

101
00:04:57.959 --> 00:05:01.000
That's the challenge that we have to overcome. So even

102
00:05:01.079 --> 00:05:04.079
though I might say all work wherever you want, Oh,

103
00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:07.079
I don't really count your hours, everybody's talking about it,

104
00:05:07.879 --> 00:05:09.480
and they need to know if you're not going to

105
00:05:09.480 --> 00:05:11.160
come in the office and you know, you really should

106
00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:13.240
come in the office at least twice a week, and

107
00:05:13.399 --> 00:05:18.560
all that conversation is not based on the actual work

108
00:05:19.759 --> 00:05:20.399
or what.

109
00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:22.920
I expect from you in terms of results.

110
00:05:22.839 --> 00:05:25.759
Or to your point at least, are you connected to

111
00:05:25.800 --> 00:05:28.879
the purpose of the organization. We don't really care about

112
00:05:28.879 --> 00:05:31.279
that as long as you're in Tuesdays and Thursday, and

113
00:05:31.319 --> 00:05:32.079
then you can work.

114
00:05:31.959 --> 00:05:33.879
From home on the nfiety.

115
00:05:35.240 --> 00:05:37.839
Yeah. And you know what I really also appreciated too.

116
00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:40.920
And you know, I've had I think your episode six

117
00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:44.240
hundred and two, but this whole notion, you know, I

118
00:05:44.279 --> 00:05:48.839
love that you're a a future of work specialist. And

119
00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:50.759
when you think about it too, you say in your

120
00:05:50.759 --> 00:05:53.560
book that and most tragically of all, all of us,

121
00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:57.000
both in leaders and those of us working in organizations too,

122
00:05:57.480 --> 00:05:59.680
have we played the game. We've learned to play the game,

123
00:05:59.720 --> 00:06:02.360
and we've accepted this hole this as the norm. This

124
00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:04.920
is how and we judge, which we'll get into later

125
00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:07.040
other people who aren't playing the game.

126
00:06:08.360 --> 00:06:10.600
Oh, absolutely, we're all playing the game. I mean it's

127
00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:13.040
things like you know, many years ago we used to

128
00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:16.959
do as we used to leave our coat on our chair, right,

129
00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:18.319
so it looks like we're still there.

130
00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:20.399
It's really like.

131
00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:23.720
Small things that we do every day that are just

132
00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:26.399
kind of silly, but the reason we do them is

133
00:06:26.439 --> 00:06:28.759
because we know that that's going to be something that

134
00:06:29.160 --> 00:06:33.079
makes us look good or maybe we're promotable. Then, so

135
00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:35.839
we keep playing that game, and we expect others to

136
00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:38.480
play it as well, because nobody really wants to be

137
00:06:38.519 --> 00:06:40.480
off culture, right, We all want to kind of fit

138
00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:43.720
in and all that kind of stuff. So the games

139
00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:48.120
are the kind of demoralizing because we know when we're

140
00:06:48.120 --> 00:06:51.240
playing those games, we don't feel good about it, right.

141
00:06:51.759 --> 00:06:55.160
We don't feel good about, you know, trying to get

142
00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:57.800
in the office before everybody else, or trying to be

143
00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:00.120
on like trying to have our green light on or

144
00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:00.959
whatever that looks like.

145
00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:05.480
In teams, it's all about looking.

146
00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:10.199
Like you're working instead of reducing actual results, right.

147
00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:12.680
And you know, it sounds so simple a least, but I.

148
00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:17.680
Think what we came upon when we were conceptualizing this

149
00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:22.439
that best buy was nobody was really they were talking

150
00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:25.800
about the work, but it was all around you know,

151
00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:27.959
how many hours you work and when you're coming in

152
00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:30.079
and you know, why did somebody leave early?

153
00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:32.120
And all of that stuff is in the way.

154
00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:36.920
And so when we talk about, for example, autonomy, mastery,

155
00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:39.319
and purpose, which Dan Pink wrote about in his book Drive.

156
00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:44.079
We cling to the hope that if we have purposes

157
00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:46.319
and we understand our jobs.

158
00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:47.439
That'll motivate us enough.

159
00:07:48.439 --> 00:07:52.040
But the one thing that was missing that we discovered

160
00:07:52.279 --> 00:07:54.360
was the idea of autonomy. And I will say this,

161
00:07:55.120 --> 00:08:01.800
Flexibility is not autonomy, right. Flexibility is built on a

162
00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:04.519
box of eight to five Monday through Friday or whatever

163
00:08:04.519 --> 00:08:05.120
that looks like.

164
00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:06.560
Right, that's the box, and.

165
00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:10.920
Then we create programming around that to give people permission

166
00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:12.240
to kind.

167
00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:17.399
Of go outside that box. Now, autonomy is not permission based.

168
00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:21.879
Autonomy is every single day and every minute of all

169
00:08:21.920 --> 00:08:22.319
the time.

170
00:08:22.519 --> 00:08:25.360
I control my time. I don't have to ask permission.

171
00:08:25.759 --> 00:08:28.560
I don't have to tell anybody where I am. And

172
00:08:29.519 --> 00:08:33.000
that opens up sort of a big thing about well

173
00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:37.360
do people know what they're doing? Yeah, if I don't

174
00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:38.960
see you in the office, I don't think you know

175
00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:39.519
what you're doing.

176
00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:41.399
But I think that I see you and that you

177
00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:45.360
look like you're working, so therefore you must be doing something.

178
00:08:45.799 --> 00:08:48.200
So I think that was the scary thing for management

179
00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:50.799
when we first started this is, well, if I can't

180
00:08:50.799 --> 00:08:52.840
see people, how well I know they're working, and today

181
00:08:53.320 --> 00:08:56.480
it means seeing like this or in an office, and

182
00:08:56.559 --> 00:08:58.279
if I can't see you, how do I know?

183
00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:00.840
Right? Presenteeism?

184
00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:02.200
How do you know?

185
00:09:02.320 --> 00:09:02.639
Now?

186
00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:06.200
I mean, just because people are in the office, it

187
00:09:06.200 --> 00:09:09.519
doesn't mean results are being achieved. So that kind of

188
00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:10.960
a big scary thing, as you know.

189
00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:13.159
Yeah, I mean I know plenty of people and you

190
00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:14.840
and I both been planning to people that are fully

191
00:09:14.840 --> 00:09:17.080
in the office. But they're there. They are there, right

192
00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:19.759
there in front of you, working on their vacation, planning

193
00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:22.320
the whole thing out, contacting the travel agencies and such.

194
00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:24.559
They're not working, they're just you can they're just present

195
00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:26.759
for you or which yes, maybe a better way to

196
00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:27.399
some time.

197
00:09:27.720 --> 00:09:30.519
Yeah, it's presenteeism. It's it's filling time.

198
00:09:30.639 --> 00:09:34.000
And you know, people aren't productive every minute of the day.

199
00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:38.519
And if we focused on the actual work, like are

200
00:09:38.559 --> 00:09:39.279
you achieving the.

201
00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:40.519
Results that we agreed upon?

202
00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:44.480
Why does it matter if I'm planning my vacation right right,

203
00:09:44.519 --> 00:09:47.039
exactly right? Why does it matter if I'm you know,

204
00:09:47.120 --> 00:09:48.879
taking a nap on a Thursday afternoon.

205
00:09:49.240 --> 00:09:49.840
Why does it.

206
00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:53.480
Matter if I'm coming at ten and leave at eleven?

207
00:09:53.960 --> 00:09:55.399
I mean, why does that matter?

208
00:09:55.600 --> 00:09:59.559
If in fact, I'm accountable and showing results.

209
00:09:59.480 --> 00:10:02.159
Right, and you can trust me to deliver those results.

210
00:10:02.840 --> 00:10:06.600
Yes, and trust me, you know, for you know I'm

211
00:10:06.600 --> 00:10:08.559
going to you have to earn my trust in that

212
00:10:08.679 --> 00:10:09.159
and then.

213
00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:12.480
I'll let you right that word let bothers me terribly,

214
00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:17.240
me too. Don't get my shackles up, Jody. Okay. So

215
00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:20.080
one of the other things I want to get to

216
00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:21.919
because I think this will help our listeners and yours

217
00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:24.559
understand why this is such a problem. You talk about

218
00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:26.840
in your book that there are two forces pushing on people,

219
00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:30.200
demands and control, and you talk about when you have,

220
00:10:30.320 --> 00:10:32.440
you know, the high demands and high control, this isn't

221
00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:34.000
the sweet spot. So if you could say a bit

222
00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:37.559
more about those two forces pushing on people, why they're

223
00:10:37.600 --> 00:10:39.600
so important to manage, Well, that.

224
00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:43.120
Is very important because if you have high demands in

225
00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:48.840
your life meaning work, you know, children, family, friends, all

226
00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:52.000
the things in your life, grocery, shopping, sleeping, all of it,

227
00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:58.480
high demands and low control, that's a high stress situation.

228
00:10:59.799 --> 00:11:02.440
So what we need to do is we need to

229
00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:04.639
and this has been proven to social science.

230
00:11:05.159 --> 00:11:08.279
Is raise our level of control to the highest possible

231
00:11:08.360 --> 00:11:11.080
level so we can meet all the demands in our lives,

232
00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:12.320
needs and wants.

233
00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:15.679
But what happens is when.

234
00:11:15.559 --> 00:11:18.679
We can't meet you know, we're just trying to meet

235
00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:21.279
our needs, and we need to meet needs and wants,

236
00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:25.159
what usually falls away what we want to do in

237
00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:28.480
our lives. We have to wait till we retire because

238
00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:32.039
we have to you know, be able to sleep and

239
00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:34.120
feed our families and all those things. And we don't

240
00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:40.480
have any time for you know, knitting or riding our

241
00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:43.039
bike or you know, reading or whatever that is we

242
00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:46.159
want to do because we we have this guilt associated

243
00:11:46.240 --> 00:11:53.480
with I have to sort of give up myself to

244
00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:57.480
give time, even if we're not producing results, I have

245
00:11:57.519 --> 00:12:00.559
to give somebody my time. We need to raise people's

246
00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:04.320
levels control to the highest possible level. Everybody, every job,

247
00:12:04.399 --> 00:12:07.799
no matter what it is, so that if people have

248
00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:11.159
purpose and they understand their job and they know what

249
00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:15.360
their outcome is and they are clear about it, we

250
00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:17.559
don't have to manage people.

251
00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:19.879
Right right and so in our Parliamce Jodie, if we

252
00:12:19.879 --> 00:12:22.279
can get people more control over their lives and their time,

253
00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:25.519
what happens is we unleash more of that beautiful productive

254
00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:29.200
energy that they can use to be productive, to produce results,

255
00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:33.039
to come alive and animate the purpose of the organization.

256
00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:36.559
And if we give an example too, just listeners and viewers.

257
00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:39.960
When she said, you know, high demand, low control, I

258
00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:42.000
want you to think of some scenarios like people that

259
00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:45.840
have maybe they're caring for their their parents, or they've

260
00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:48.279
got children that they're caring for and they've got to

261
00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:50.960
get them tune from schools. That those are high demands,

262
00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:53.440
and they work for an organization that insists that they

263
00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:55.960
are in the office Monday through Friday from eight to five.

264
00:12:56.519 --> 00:12:59.080
That is a very low control situation. And how many

265
00:12:59.080 --> 00:13:01.879
people are fleeing those situations. So I wanted to be

266
00:13:01.879 --> 00:13:03.840
sure and frame that and you know people so people

267
00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:06.320
can feel this and really relate to it. Because I

268
00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:09.440
want this to change too, Jody, and you're our ticket,

269
00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:10.799
So let's get to it already.

270
00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:12.080
Let's reap it happen.

271
00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:17.360
Why people are stressed out on a Sunday night because

272
00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:22.159
they know starting Monday morning they have lost control, they

273
00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:25.120
have less control over their needs and wants and things

274
00:13:25.159 --> 00:13:26.919
they have to do to take care of their lives.

275
00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:32.840
And it's very stressful to have that feeling for however many.

276
00:13:32.600 --> 00:13:33.240
Hours a week.

277
00:13:34.039 --> 00:13:35.840
You can be sitting in your cube, or you can

278
00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:37.480
be in an office and say, I don't really have

279
00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:40.320
anything I have to do right now, but.

280
00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:41.360
I just sit there.

281
00:13:42.360 --> 00:13:45.120
This is your one precious life. By the way, I thought, yeah,

282
00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:47.759
this is your one precious life. You're sitting there, and

283
00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:50.639
once you said it's so beautiful in your book? Is that?

284
00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:52.480
Then your life is governed by the time clock.

285
00:13:53.639 --> 00:13:56.120
Absolutely, it's totally governed by that.

286
00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:59.200
And in so many areas of our life that that

287
00:13:59.320 --> 00:14:03.679
clock is how we manage everything. But when you're when

288
00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:08.759
you're in a situation where you have autonomy, time takes

289
00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:10.000
on a whole different meaning.

290
00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:13.399
Absolutely relate to it so much more differently and beautifully

291
00:14:13.399 --> 00:14:16.440
and productively. So what I'd love to do next is

292
00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:18.879
I'd love to have you introduce the results only work

293
00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:22.080
environment approach philosophy. But and then later I want to

294
00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:25.039
talk about where it actually came from. So what's the

295
00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:27.679
results or work environment For those of people who like me,

296
00:14:27.799 --> 00:14:29.399
haven't I've already read the book, they haven't.

297
00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:35.840
So the results only work environment is built on autonomy

298
00:14:35.919 --> 00:14:40.679
and accountability. So every single person has one hundred percent autonomy,

299
00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:44.960
and every single person has one hundred percent accountability and

300
00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:47.919
when you have that kind of culture in perfect balance,

301
00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:50.879
that's where the organization thrives.

302
00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:51.840
That's a sweet spot.

303
00:14:52.840 --> 00:14:56.480
So for managers, it's it's always that push and pull

304
00:14:56.519 --> 00:15:01.080
between do people understand the measure results of their position?

305
00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:04.559
And are people autonomous?

306
00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:08.480
Not me giving them permission, but that they're so clear

307
00:15:08.480 --> 00:15:09.919
about their role and what they need to do that

308
00:15:09.960 --> 00:15:13.120
they communicate with each other, they work when they need to.

309
00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:16.879
You know, basically, each person is free to do whatever

310
00:15:16.919 --> 00:15:18.519
they want whenever they want.

311
00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:19.639
As long as the work it's done.

312
00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:24.559
And you would think that would cause complete chaos, but

313
00:15:25.320 --> 00:15:26.679
it's something that is.

314
00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:31.200
It's attainable, not perfectly.

315
00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:35.080
It's just always a striving to is everybody accountable for.

316
00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:39.600
The right thing? And am I managing the work not

317
00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:40.159
the people?

318
00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:41.360
Yes?

319
00:15:41.600 --> 00:15:43.320
Beautiful, the work not the people.

320
00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:46.279
Okay, now, let's let our listeners and viewers just think

321
00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:48.960
about what we've been talking about so far, Why work sucks,

322
00:15:49.480 --> 00:15:52.679
the idea of what we're giving of our full entire

323
00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:54.799
lives to be able to plug ourselves into it, and

324
00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:57.720
the possibility of this results in the working environment. And

325
00:15:57.759 --> 00:16:00.519
let's take our first break. I'm your host, doctor Release

326
00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:02.600
Cortes we've been on the air with Jodie Thompson. She's

327
00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:06.559
the founding principle of Culture RX, based in Indiepolis, Minnesota,

328
00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:09.200
and a widely recognized voice on a future of work.

329
00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:10.360
We'll be right back.

330
00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:29.600
Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

331
00:16:29.639 --> 00:16:33.440
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies

332
00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:36.840
visioneer for a greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose

333
00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:41.240
inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,

334
00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:44.320
and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to

335
00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:47.440
invite Elise to speak to your organization, please visit her

336
00:16:47.480 --> 00:16:50.720
at Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

337
00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:59.559
your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose

338
00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:02.720
with dot to Release Cortes. To reach our program today,

339
00:17:02.840 --> 00:17:05.200
or to open a conversation with a lease send an

340
00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:10.400
email to a lease a Lise at Eleascortes dot com.

341
00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:12.599
Now back to working on purpose.

342
00:17:17.839 --> 00:17:19.599
Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to working

343
00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:22.200
on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor e Release Cortes, as

344
00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:24.680
I am dedicated to helping create a world where organizations

345
00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:27.720
thrive because they're people thrive, they're led by inspirational leaders

346
00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:29.920
that help them find and contribute their greatness, and we

347
00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:32.000
do business a betters the world. I keep researching and

348
00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:34.440
writing my own books. So one of my latest came out.

349
00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:37.400
It's called The Great Revitalization. How activating meaning and purpose

350
00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:39.880
can radically enliven your business. And I order it to

351
00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:43.279
help leaders understand today's very diverse and discerning workforce. What

352
00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:45.319
do they want from you to give their best and

353
00:17:45.319 --> 00:17:47.839
stick around? And then I provide you twenty two best

354
00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:51.559
practices to provide that for them through your leadershpen your culture.

355
00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:54.079
You can find my books on Amazon or anywhere else

356
00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:56.960
you will find books if you are just now joining us.

357
00:17:57.000 --> 00:17:59.200
My guest is Jody Thompson. She's the co author of

358
00:17:59.240 --> 00:18:01.680
Why Work Suck and How to Fix It The Results

359
00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:05.720
Only Revolution. So I think it's really important that people

360
00:18:05.799 --> 00:18:08.160
understand just where this came from. I think it's really

361
00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:11.279
really a fascinating thing about the history of this and

362
00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:13.720
how long you've been at this, And I think it

363
00:18:13.720 --> 00:18:16.440
will help our listeners and viewers understand just where it

364
00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:19.759
was born and that was your and Kelly's work at

365
00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:22.799
best Buy. If you want to give us a story there, yep.

366
00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:25.799
So when I was at best Buy, I was a

367
00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:29.839
change agent, so I worked on large scale organizational organizational

368
00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:31.079
change and Kelly was.

369
00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:33.759
In work life programs and she was.

370
00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:38.119
Tasked with how do we create a flexible workplace, you know,

371
00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:42.200
across the entire five thousand people at best By Corporate,

372
00:18:43.359 --> 00:18:46.279
And so she reached out, she got me as a

373
00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:49.200
change agent, and we got together and we started to

374
00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:50.680
really think about.

375
00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:52.640
The idea of.

376
00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:57.160
Flexibility, which is a managed program. And as we talk

377
00:18:57.240 --> 00:18:59.240
to people and as we dug into it more, we

378
00:18:59.319 --> 00:19:02.880
started to why are we managing.

379
00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:05.720
People's time and location? We started to ask ourselves that question.

380
00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:10.640
And it was it was a profound question, like people

381
00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:13.039
are like, what are you talking about? So we stepped

382
00:19:13.039 --> 00:19:15.160
back and we said we're gonna We're gonna experiment with

383
00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:17.720
some teams. So there was a leader at that time,

384
00:19:17.799 --> 00:19:21.680
Mike Morault, who understood that people should have the ability

385
00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:25.519
to manage their own time, but his team was still

386
00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:26.559
using schedules.

387
00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:30.440
So we said, well, how about if we took those away.

388
00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:33.440
So we started this out in a way that we

389
00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:37.839
were pretty radical and pretty kind of a little crazy

390
00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:43.079
at first, until we really worked on sort of creating

391
00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:46.799
something that people could understand and could also move through

392
00:19:46.839 --> 00:19:48.799
as a team and come out the other side.

393
00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:50.160
With autonomy and accountability.

394
00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:53.759
What was interesting about this that VEST buy is that

395
00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:57.160
the teams that moved into the results only work environment

396
00:19:57.279 --> 00:20:02.160
through a series of modules that we created. There, you know,

397
00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:06.039
resolves engagement all of the things that you look at

398
00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:09.599
in terms of are people productive and are they happy?

399
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:15.319
We're off the charts. We've worked with organizations who's you know,

400
00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:16.799
turnover went down to zero.

401
00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:20.640
And so here's the thing. At least people will say, well,

402
00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:22.079
there's some turnover is good.

403
00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:26.599
How do you know that? Is that really true? Wonderful?

404
00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:31.720
It isn't. So when you create an organization that has.

405
00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:37.960
The ability to you know, have leaders that are actually coaches,

406
00:20:38.640 --> 00:20:44.880
not old school managers, taks right exactly, micromanagers, and can

407
00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:47.759
actually coach people to do good work for the organization

408
00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:53.319
and the customer, well there's nothing like it. And I

409
00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:55.160
don't have to feel guilty and we'll talk about this

410
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:57.880
in the lot while with Sludge, but I don't need

411
00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:00.799
to feel guilty about how I'm spending my time, which

412
00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:04.319
makes me even more dedicated and loyal to the organization.

413
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:08.160
I one hundred percent understand and understand that because that's

414
00:21:08.200 --> 00:21:11.039
how I run my team. And just as one example,

415
00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:13.839
the person that I helped them with communications and such.

416
00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:16.400
I mean, she's she started here in Dallas and then

417
00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:19.119
where I'm at, and then she moved to another city

418
00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:21.920
and we had an arrangement. I mean, this is what

419
00:21:21.920 --> 00:21:24.279
her this is what she's producing for me each week

420
00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:26.960
and for us each week, and this is what it needs.

421
00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:29.599
And I loved it when she would call and say,

422
00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:31.640
I'm going to be you know, unavailable for the next

423
00:21:31.640 --> 00:21:34.799
hour and a half because my husband has is kidnapped

424
00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:38.039
me to go horseback riding. I'm like, yes, go fantastic.

425
00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:41.759
And she comes back full of life. You know, everything

426
00:21:41.799 --> 00:21:45.240
that she does is infused with that joy and that passion,

427
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:48.480
and she gets this big, beautiful, full life on her

428
00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:52.640
terms high control, and it's I want that. That's we

429
00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:55.200
are all about leaving our culture of gust to the

430
00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:57.240
ones that we're out to tell organizations to do as well.

431
00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:00.240
And here's the best thing, listeners and viewers. As that

432
00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:02.599
weren't all great as it was, She's I mean I

433
00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:04.960
can set her deliverables by the claw. She doesn't miss

434
00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:07.960
her deliverables. But even better, I can't tell you the

435
00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:10.119
number of times just this one person I'm talking about

436
00:22:10.119 --> 00:22:13.880
has dazzled me with her output and her ideas and

437
00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:16.599
her contributions way beyond what I ask her to do.

438
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:20.000
And that's unleashing the full human right there.

439
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:24.759
Right, And when every single person has that opportunity, you

440
00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:29.000
can imagine how powerful that is. What I like to

441
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:32.759
say the leaders today too, is we think of ourselves

442
00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:36.079
as physical beings. And that's how it's always been since

443
00:22:36.400 --> 00:22:37.000
the fifties.

444
00:22:37.079 --> 00:22:37.240
Right.

445
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:40.400
If I can't get a hold of you physically, then

446
00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:43.000
you're not working or you're not available or whatever that is.

447
00:22:43.039 --> 00:22:46.640
But really, we are a human being and we're a

448
00:22:46.759 --> 00:22:51.079
digital we're digital. Yeah, So if you reach out to me,

449
00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:56.440
you don't need to get the physical meat. You can

450
00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:59.400
get one of my superheroes, which I call them, yeah.

451
00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:02.559
My voicemailer email or the other ways to communicate, and

452
00:23:02.599 --> 00:23:03.519
you can reach out and.

453
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:05.680
Let me know what you need and when you need it.

454
00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:10.799
And so if I, for example, decide.

455
00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:13.119
That my work is looking good, I communicated you know

456
00:23:13.519 --> 00:23:15.720
what I need to communicate, not where I'm going. I

457
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:17.880
just communicated about the work, and I decided to go

458
00:23:17.920 --> 00:23:19.480
to the beach for a couple of hours sit in

459
00:23:19.519 --> 00:23:23.519
the sand. I know that everybody around me is going

460
00:23:23.559 --> 00:23:27.519
to reach out to me, to my digital presence and

461
00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:29.200
let me know what they need when they need it,

462
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:31.160
and not ask.

463
00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:35.519
Me like where I am. Yeah, so it's an interesting one.

464
00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:39.720
I love what you're doing is you're empowering people to

465
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:42.559
do those things that wouldn't normally be done during the day.

466
00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:45.319
Right and in our culture, of course, we want to

467
00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:47.920
celebrate that. I want her to do those things during

468
00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:50.279
the day because I want to be able to unleash

469
00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:53.000
this full human and give her that. As you say,

470
00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:55.279
you know, I love this. You know, we so you

471
00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:58.039
so you're treated more like an adult than a child,

472
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:00.519
right that you You know you should have stressed out

473
00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:02.640
about time. She doesn't have to make This is another

474
00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:04.039
thing you say in your book. She doesn't have to

475
00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:07.759
manufacture an excuse as to why she's not available. There's

476
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:11.000
no need for an excuse. I'm celebrating the excuse if

477
00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:11.400
you will.

478
00:24:12.279 --> 00:24:14.799
You know, it's so good that you're doing that too,

479
00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:18.559
because we like to talk about socially acceptable or socially

480
00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:22.160
unacceptable excuses like if I want to, you know, do

481
00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:23.839
something for a couple hours I'll say I'm going to

482
00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:27.319
the dentist because that's socially acceptable. I'm not going to

483
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:30.240
say I don't feel like working right now. That's not

484
00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:34.359
socially acceptable. Beating fine, so people, that's part of the

485
00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:38.319
game that we play. But you're celebrating the idea that

486
00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:42.599
we're whole people or adults. We know our jobs and

487
00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:45.720
we go do them and we produce what we need

488
00:24:45.759 --> 00:24:46.200
to produce.

489
00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:50.319
And you're getting that. You're getting that well.

490
00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:52.720
And that's why our whole thing, you know, because partly

491
00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:55.680
as as a logo therapist, logos is Greek for meaning,

492
00:24:55.759 --> 00:24:58.039
and meaning from that advantage point is all about the

493
00:24:58.200 --> 00:25:01.359
energy life force. So all we're really doing is just

494
00:25:01.480 --> 00:25:05.240
activating that full you know, fuller human that is full

495
00:25:05.279 --> 00:25:08.160
of energy and vitality, except when you suppress it by

496
00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:11.759
boxing it into this this little narrow place and you know,

497
00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:15.839
removing their capacity to re energize themselves through the ways

498
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:17.920
that they would normally do, like going out and writing

499
00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:20.720
writing Horseback for an hour and a half on Friday morning.

500
00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:24.359
Yeah, I love that. I like to say we have

501
00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:25.960
to stop thinking outside the box.

502
00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:30.240
The box doesn't exist. That's where we need to start.

503
00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:33.720
It just doesn't exist. And that's very hard because we

504
00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:36.880
grow up watching our parents work, and you know how

505
00:25:36.920 --> 00:25:40.079
people work and collaboration has to happen face to face,

506
00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:44.480
and all those things are still in our belief system,

507
00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:48.359
and breaking that is very difficult. Deeply held beliefs about

508
00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:50.880
the way work needs to happen is a hard thing

509
00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:52.880
to break. So we have to have some grace with

510
00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:56.200
people and with managers. But I love to hear some

511
00:25:56.279 --> 00:25:59.680
of the things you're doing because you're flipping that right,

512
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:02.440
not sitting people in the box.

513
00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:05.119
Box doesn't exist, right.

514
00:26:05.079 --> 00:26:08.119
What you're producing and you're producing and the deadline is

515
00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:08.640
the work.

516
00:26:08.960 --> 00:26:10.240
Yeah, are the deadlines?

517
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:14.160
That's right, that's right. And again the beauty of it,

518
00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:17.920
and again I can feel the unleashed energy in the

519
00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:22.200
work product. It literally dances, and so you know, okay,

520
00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:24.039
so let's get to these beliefs. Here at this you

521
00:26:24.079 --> 00:26:28.079
have this really interesting, fun concept called sludge. So let's

522
00:26:28.119 --> 00:26:30.880
introduce sludge and talk about just how what it is

523
00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:32.440
and how we can manage it. I love how you

524
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:33.279
treat this in the book.

525
00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:37.759
So sludge is the thing that holds work culture together.

526
00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:39.799
It's glue, and.

527
00:26:39.880 --> 00:26:42.839
What it is is it's making a judgment about how

528
00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:44.680
somebody else is spending their time.

529
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:48.400
To pull them back in to the example of them right.

530
00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:51.519
So an example might be all those people with kids,

531
00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:54.599
they always get to leave early. So right now we're

532
00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:56.960
saying they need to stay as long as I am right,

533
00:26:57.000 --> 00:26:58.880
and I'm going to get that out there so they

534
00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:01.720
feel bad and guilty. Or I might say, how at

535
00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:03.640
least ten o'clock and you're just getting in. I wish

536
00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:07.880
I could come in later every day. Or I might say, oh,

537
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:09.559
I didn't see you on teams yesterday.

538
00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:10.960
Did you take a vacation day?

539
00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:17.720
So I become the judger right to make Becker's other

540
00:27:17.720 --> 00:27:21.759
person feel guilty. And what we figured out was first

541
00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:24.119
of all different kinds of sludge, but.

542
00:27:24.119 --> 00:27:25.880
We figured out a way to stop that.

543
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:29.359
In its tracks and create an environment where people talked

544
00:27:29.400 --> 00:27:32.720
about the work, not how people were spending their time.

545
00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:37.240
So if you in the results only work environment, which

546
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:40.240
is autonomous and accountable, and you come and say to

547
00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:44.279
me ten o'clock and you're just getting in, I wouldn't go, oh,

548
00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:46.880
I know, but my daughter was throwing up this morning,

549
00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:48.880
and then my dog and my this, and I wouldn't

550
00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:52.200
make an excuse I would look at you and say, Elise,

551
00:27:52.279 --> 00:27:55.759
is there something you need? Because guess what, if you

552
00:27:55.759 --> 00:27:59.440
don't need anything, you're a big judger. If you do

553
00:27:59.559 --> 00:28:02.720
need some they asked me for it, you don't have

554
00:28:02.799 --> 00:28:03.519
to sludge me.

555
00:28:03.599 --> 00:28:03.960
First.

556
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:10.319
What they're created is a big space of oh, we

557
00:28:10.359 --> 00:28:13.640
talk about the work, and so now I know how

558
00:28:13.640 --> 00:28:14.880
to eradicate sludge.

559
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:16.680
So if a sluedger comes.

560
00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:20.319
At me, I feel more powerful because I'm going to

561
00:28:20.319 --> 00:28:23.559
talk about the work. I'm going to talk about the work.

562
00:28:23.599 --> 00:28:25.200
You say that to me, I'm going to ask you

563
00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:25.720
what you need.

564
00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:29.240
So a couple of things that I really want to

565
00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:31.359
pull out here so our listeners and viewers get this.

566
00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:36.079
So by first giving this thing a name, this is

567
00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:39.039
a beast that lives in the organization here, this sludging

568
00:28:39.079 --> 00:28:41.400
that we do here. So now and then you and

569
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:45.880
then you. Part of your your methodology is that you

570
00:28:45.960 --> 00:28:48.359
help people learn that, you know, start to call out

571
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:50.960
all the you know, hundred ways literally hundred ways that

572
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:53.480
we sludge around here. Now it lives in more of

573
00:28:53.519 --> 00:28:56.319
a conscious level. Okay, now I can start to do

574
00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:59.160
something about this. Back on the ten o'clock arrival. Thing

575
00:29:00.039 --> 00:29:01.759
they don't know is this person's been working at home

576
00:29:01.839 --> 00:29:05.640
since six am, so now you're getting double judged here.

577
00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:08.559
It's just it's just so gross. So I love that.

578
00:29:08.839 --> 00:29:11.000
I love that. First if you say, you know, we're

579
00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:12.720
going to we're going to identify this thing called sludge

580
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:14.599
and let's start talking about all the ways we sledge

581
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:17.880
around here, people laugh about it and realize just how

582
00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:21.039
you know, big it is. Now we have something to

583
00:29:21.079 --> 00:29:23.559
work with and we can push back and say, you know, hey, Jodie,

584
00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:27.920
I think you're sledging me there, right, And people do

585
00:29:28.119 --> 00:29:30.000
that right, and now we can start to change the

586
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:32.240
belief system of the organization. This is when things start

587
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:33.160
to change.

588
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:37.440
They have not change, and it's great because when people

589
00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:38.119
start to.

590
00:29:39.680 --> 00:29:42.559
Let all that guilt that they feel, we all feel guilt.

591
00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:45.400
I have one leader say to me, I don't know

592
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:47.680
what it is about that sledge, he said, but everybody

593
00:29:47.720 --> 00:29:52.160
in my team looks taller. I mean, I thought, well,

594
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:56.960
that's interesting. But it's because people when they let all

595
00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:02.240
that burden of having to constantly be explaining, explaining, explaining,

596
00:30:03.519 --> 00:30:05.119
it's exhausting for people.

597
00:30:05.119 --> 00:30:07.640
And it's yes, fucking I know. And that's again why

598
00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:09.960
we are all about trafficking and energy, Tody. I so

599
00:30:10.119 --> 00:30:13.119
get this, and then here's where it gets even more beautiful.

600
00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:15.839
You say in your book that when there is no sledge,

601
00:30:15.880 --> 00:30:20.000
it's harder for people, or impossible even for people organizations

602
00:30:20.079 --> 00:30:23.119
to reinforce that status quo. This is how we grind

603
00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:25.880
people into place. When there isn't sledge, or you hold

604
00:30:25.880 --> 00:30:28.440
it to be accountable and you call it out, then

605
00:30:28.599 --> 00:30:31.480
it helps you remove that status quo that you've been

606
00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:34.480
clinging to all this time, and now we have possibility

607
00:30:34.480 --> 00:30:35.160
for something new.

608
00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:39.880
Absolutely, it just opens everything up. And there I will

609
00:30:39.880 --> 00:30:44.240
say that are people, very very small percentage that just

610
00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:46.279
want to come in and eight and stay the five

611
00:30:46.359 --> 00:30:49.839
and be busy. I say that in your quotes because

612
00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:53.119
they feel comfortable there and the results call we work environment.

613
00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:55.599
You can. That's how you want to do it, because

614
00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:57.799
nobody's going to judge your time. But you still have

615
00:30:57.799 --> 00:31:01.680
to get accountable to results. So you can't really hide.

616
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:03.000
You can't hide.

617
00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:05.079
You have to step forward and you have to talk

618
00:31:05.079 --> 00:31:06.799
to your results coach and say, you.

619
00:31:06.759 --> 00:31:09.480
Know, I'm not really clear about where I'm going here.

620
00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:13.519
Let's talk about that. Not I wanted to let you

621
00:31:13.559 --> 00:31:15.160
all my schedule for the week and I'm going to

622
00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:18.440
commendate every day and blah blah, blah blah, it doesn't

623
00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:19.759
matter what's the work.

624
00:31:20.920 --> 00:31:22.279
I thought that was one of one of the more

625
00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:24.039
one of the many powerful things you have in your

626
00:31:24.039 --> 00:31:27.079
book that for the people that maybe have bought into

627
00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:28.920
the idea of I've learned the game, that I know

628
00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:31.480
how to coast, they won't make it in a results

629
00:31:31.480 --> 00:31:32.519
on the environment.

630
00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:33.599
No, they won't.

631
00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:37.920
And sometimes people say, well, what do you mean results

632
00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:41.160
only so we can't have any fun, We can't you know, yeah.

633
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:42.480
You know that kind of thing.

634
00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:45.480
And it's what I've learned through this is people actually

635
00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:51.039
are more bonded because what they're bonded on is the

636
00:31:51.079 --> 00:31:53.640
purpose and the outcome of what their team is doing

637
00:31:53.720 --> 00:31:57.160
what they're doing, and because they're not judging each other

638
00:31:57.160 --> 00:32:01.319
and playing the game, they feel closer each other. And

639
00:32:02.200 --> 00:32:06.119
said that one person said to me, I never wanted

640
00:32:06.119 --> 00:32:07.279
to got a happy hour with my.

641
00:32:07.319 --> 00:32:09.880
Team, and she goes, now I do.

642
00:32:11.240 --> 00:32:11.319
Do.

643
00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:14.279
I want to see them at different times and now

644
00:32:14.279 --> 00:32:18.279
that the sort of the time clock blew up, we

645
00:32:18.440 --> 00:32:21.960
have space for those relationships, right, And I feel like

646
00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:24.519
you always say those nasty things to me.

647
00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:27.079
So right, why way I want to socialize with you

648
00:32:27.319 --> 00:32:28.720
after hours or whatever.

649
00:32:29.039 --> 00:32:31.279
Right exactly, I'm going to go home to my family.

650
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:36.359
So like some soulness, it's fright. So I think I

651
00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:38.279
think you're you nail it on the head of lease

652
00:32:38.359 --> 00:32:38.680
when you.

653
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:44.599
Talk about what's possible and what's possible, what's human, what's

654
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:47.799
possible for people, and what's possible when you have this

655
00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:51.640
kind of power inside an organization where the people really

656
00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:54.559
are present, present, not in the office, not not a

657
00:32:54.599 --> 00:32:57.160
present location, but present to the.

658
00:32:57.119 --> 00:32:59.519
Work, present, plugged in and turned on.

659
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:04.200
Yeah, yes, exactly right, and living our lives. We must

660
00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:05.920
remember that we have a whole life.

661
00:33:05.720 --> 00:33:08.680
Right, yes, all right. Let's let our listeners to on

662
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:11.319
that possibility. Stand in that space. Listeners of yours, just

663
00:33:11.359 --> 00:33:14.039
imagine that possibility. If you're a leader, if you're somebody

664
00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:15.880
working inside an organization, I want you to stand in

665
00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:18.519
that possibility while we go on this next break. I'm

666
00:33:18.559 --> 00:33:20.759
your host, doctor Elie Cortez. We've go on the air

667
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:23.559
with Jodie Foster, who is known for helping companies rethink

668
00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:27.039
workplace culture, leadership, and performance in ways that drive stronger

669
00:33:27.079 --> 00:33:30.400
results and lasting change. We've been hearing us talk about

670
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:33.119
some of the things that have been stopping this whole movement.

671
00:33:33.160 --> 00:33:35.079
Here after the break, we're going to peel back even

672
00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:37.839
further how you can start to get into what she

673
00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:42.880
calls results only workplace environment guideposts that will help you

674
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:45.559
really undo this thing on its head. We'll be right back.

675
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:04.400
Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

676
00:34:04.440 --> 00:34:08.239
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies

677
00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:12.119
visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

678
00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:16.199
leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

679
00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:19.480
commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

680
00:34:19.480 --> 00:34:22.480
Alease to speak to your organization, please visit her at

681
00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:25.719
elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your

682
00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:34.559
employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with

683
00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:37.880
doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to

684
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:41.000
open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Alise

685
00:34:41.320 --> 00:34:46.639
A Lisee at elisecortes dot com. Now back to working

686
00:34:46.719 --> 00:34:47.400
on purpose.

687
00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:54.519
Thanks for stating with us, and welcome back to working

688
00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:56.760
on purpose. I hope you enjoyed that little stud that

689
00:34:56.800 --> 00:35:00.239
you had in this last break thinking about possibility. Host

690
00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:02.400
doctor at Last Cortez. As you know by now, this

691
00:35:02.440 --> 00:35:05.199
program is dedicated to empowering and inspiring you along your

692
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:07.639
journey to realize more of your potential. If you'd like

693
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:09.960
to learn more about where you are and the Gusto

694
00:35:10.039 --> 00:35:12.519
Leadership Spectrum, one way to do that is go to

695
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:15.480
LinkedIn find me at Last Cortez, scroll down to the

696
00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:20.159
futured section and you will find the Gusto Leadership Spectrum assessment.

697
00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:21.880
And while you're there connect with me as well. You'll

698
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:24.360
learn a lot about yourself and other possibilities in your

699
00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:27.079
own development. If you are just now joining us. My

700
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:29.480
guest is Jodie Thompson. She's the co author of Why

701
00:35:29.519 --> 00:35:33.480
Work Sucks and How to Fix It The Results Only Revolution.

702
00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:37.480
So these thirteen guy posts are if you look at

703
00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:39.760
these things just from the outside and you didn't know

704
00:35:40.039 --> 00:35:42.320
much like you and I are more steeped in, you

705
00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:46.280
would really start laughing, right, And I know that's your

706
00:35:46.280 --> 00:35:50.199
whole point, and it works, It works great, And there's

707
00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:51.519
just a few. I don't want to go through all

708
00:35:51.559 --> 00:35:53.320
thirteen because that would take too long, and there's other

709
00:35:53.320 --> 00:35:55.199
things I wanted to talk about, but I would like

710
00:35:55.239 --> 00:35:57.599
to give our listeners and viewers a flavor. There's a

711
00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:00.880
few that I think are pretty pretty fun to talk about.

712
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:02.400
But do you have a couple favorites that you want

713
00:36:02.440 --> 00:36:02.920
to talk about?

714
00:36:03.519 --> 00:36:06.880
Oh, I do have two favorites. Well here one is.

715
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:08.519
So first of all, let me just say to your

716
00:36:08.519 --> 00:36:14.320
listeners that the thirteen guide posts are aspirational goals. When

717
00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:18.000
you reach those goals, you're closer to autonomy and accountability.

718
00:36:18.039 --> 00:36:20.760
Each one of them helps you get closer to that

719
00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:24.199
idea of autonomy and accountability. So one of my favorites

720
00:36:24.280 --> 00:36:26.960
is every day feels like Saturday.

721
00:36:27.559 --> 00:36:28.639
That's one of my favorites too.

722
00:36:29.639 --> 00:36:32.920
So people go crazy, they say, well, every day isn't Saturday.

723
00:36:32.960 --> 00:36:34.039
I know, I know it isn't.

724
00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:37.719
But in a row, every day feels like Saturday because

725
00:36:37.719 --> 00:36:40.000
on Saturday, who controls your time?

726
00:36:41.119 --> 00:36:41.440
You do?

727
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:44.360
Nobody's sludging you and telling you when you need to

728
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:47.320
do the laundry and how long the laundry needs to take,

729
00:36:47.559 --> 00:36:49.840
and you know when you need to empty the dishwasher.

730
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:54.039
So every day feels like Saturday means every day of

731
00:36:54.079 --> 00:36:58.960
the week, I control all of my time. That's what

732
00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:03.079
that means. And so to make every day feels like Saturday. True,

733
00:37:04.360 --> 00:37:07.719
we have to build on autonomy and accountability at the

734
00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:10.599
same time, because we need to understand what my role

735
00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:15.280
is and how I'm achieving that through measurable results. My

736
00:37:15.400 --> 00:37:22.000
other favorite one is every meeting is optional, so I

737
00:37:22.039 --> 00:37:25.599
can see, you know, people's skins falling off their arms

738
00:37:25.599 --> 00:37:26.039
and face.

739
00:37:26.119 --> 00:37:29.320
You know when they hear that, You're just like, no,

740
00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:35.519
some are fundatory. Well, here's the thing. If you have

741
00:37:35.599 --> 00:37:37.159
a clear outcome for your.

742
00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:41.920
Meeting and everybody agrees that meeting is the best way

743
00:37:41.960 --> 00:37:45.079
to get to that, then people will show up. You

744
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:49.280
don't have to say mandatory, right, But what we do,

745
00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:53.840
and I ask this everywhere when you look at your

746
00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:56.760
time and meetings during the week, one percent of your

747
00:37:56.760 --> 00:37:59.679
time meetings, all your meetings, how much of that time

748
00:37:59.760 --> 00:38:06.760
is And people tell me fifty eight ninety percent waste

749
00:38:06.760 --> 00:38:10.159
the time because there might be an agenda, but there's

750
00:38:10.159 --> 00:38:10.880
no outcome.

751
00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:12.760
It's not helping me do my work better.

752
00:38:12.880 --> 00:38:15.159
It's filling time and I could have been doing something

753
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:16.119
to actually do.

754
00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:18.320
My work and you're wasting my time.

755
00:38:19.320 --> 00:38:23.559
So what's been interesting about Every meeting is Optional is

756
00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:27.920
people are standing up and asking the meeting organizer, why

757
00:38:27.920 --> 00:38:30.840
are we meeting, what's the outcome? How do I need

758
00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:33.360
to prepare? What do we expect to happen in this

759
00:38:33.519 --> 00:38:36.840
meeting to help us do our work better? And when

760
00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:41.320
we start asking those questions, the meeting organizer might, oh,

761
00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:43.519
what is there a better way for us to do this? Yes,

762
00:38:43.599 --> 00:38:45.199
there is, here's how we can do it. And so

763
00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:48.760
what it does, again is it opens up people's minds

764
00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:50.880
to how can we all achieve it? We need to

765
00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:53.360
achieve in a way that's that's good for all of

766
00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:59.559
us and not feel like another meeting and I have

767
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:02.480
to go that I already know is a waste of

768
00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:03.000
my time.

769
00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:05.880
Well, and when so many people already their whole lives.

770
00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:08.400
What people tell me when we're working verizations is well,

771
00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:10.239
here's my schedule. It's all back to back meetings, and

772
00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:13.360
then I'll do my work, you know, afterwards, because that's

773
00:39:13.400 --> 00:39:15.639
when I can get it done. Yeah, I'll do my

774
00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:18.800
work afterwards when I actually have space in my life.

775
00:39:18.920 --> 00:39:20.960
That I hear this all the time. So I love this,

776
00:39:21.079 --> 00:39:24.920
that the idea that meetings are optional, Okay, go ahead.

777
00:39:25.039 --> 00:39:26.679
I want to just say to people out there the

778
00:39:26.719 --> 00:39:30.840
reoccurring meeting, Oh, everybody, even look at that on their calendars,

779
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:33.320
because why are you having a reoccurring meeting?

780
00:39:33.800 --> 00:39:35.440
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

781
00:39:35.400 --> 00:39:37.440
Ask yourself that anyway, keep going the least.

782
00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:39.800
So we're just it just goes byself fast. And there's

783
00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:41.280
more I want to extract out of you. So I

784
00:39:41.320 --> 00:39:43.360
want to get since this whole notion, this is a

785
00:39:43.400 --> 00:39:46.639
thought leadership platform that advances the conversation on creating what

786
00:39:46.679 --> 00:39:50.280
we call these destination workplaces and these inspirational leaders we

787
00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:54.119
will you know, find and deliver their greatness. And you've

788
00:39:54.159 --> 00:39:57.239
already said how updated that we've been using this work

789
00:39:57.280 --> 00:40:00.760
model since the fifties. We're talking seventy five years later,

790
00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:04.639
ladies and gentlemen and folks. So so we really need

791
00:40:04.679 --> 00:40:06.760
to you know, start looking at can we start looking

792
00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:09.079
at this? Finally? Can we start doing this? So you

793
00:40:09.159 --> 00:40:11.360
say in your book that you know, when you when

794
00:40:11.400 --> 00:40:13.760
you introduce the idea of a what you call a

795
00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:17.320
ROW environment and that is short for results only work environment,

796
00:40:17.440 --> 00:40:20.760
are owe, you get two kinds of reactions and I

797
00:40:20.760 --> 00:40:23.400
want to talk about those. So people immediately get it

798
00:40:23.559 --> 00:40:26.960
and they're like, yeah, this makes great. It's relentlessly pragmatic.

799
00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:29.039
And then you have the people that are like, this is

800
00:40:29.079 --> 00:40:32.000
the most doomsday ridiculous thing I've ever heard. And let's

801
00:40:32.039 --> 00:40:34.760
talk about both of those. So who gets it and

802
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:36.639
what do they see in this possibility?

803
00:40:37.480 --> 00:40:41.079
So what's so interesting about that is the people that

804
00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:45.280
are excited about it. Managers, let's say, that are excited

805
00:40:45.280 --> 00:40:48.559
about it. This is how they want to lead, but

806
00:40:48.599 --> 00:40:51.880
they're in a system that doesn't allow that. Yeah, they

807
00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:53.760
have to play by the rules of the system. So

808
00:40:54.280 --> 00:40:58.199
if they start going roll, the organization is going.

809
00:40:58.119 --> 00:41:00.239
To pull them back in like a giant hair ball.

810
00:41:01.400 --> 00:41:03.480
We don't allow people to blah blah blah.

811
00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:05.119
So if I call it the giant hairball, there's a

812
00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:07.199
book about that, by the way, Yes, I think I've

813
00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:07.679
heard of it.

814
00:41:08.119 --> 00:41:09.400
Yeah, it's a really good one.

815
00:41:09.719 --> 00:41:14.039
So when you try to act outsider I call off culture,

816
00:41:14.199 --> 00:41:15.039
you'll get pulled back in.

817
00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:17.199
And these leaders are like, this is the.

818
00:41:17.159 --> 00:41:20.039
Answer, this is what was kind of in my soul,

819
00:41:20.119 --> 00:41:21.880
but I didn't know how to do it, and you're

820
00:41:21.880 --> 00:41:23.480
bringing a process to help us do it.

821
00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:23.800
Okay.

822
00:41:23.800 --> 00:41:29.719
So that's one side. The other side is the fear

823
00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:32.199
I think people want to hear about it. There they

824
00:41:32.239 --> 00:41:35.760
have a fear of not being able to actually do

825
00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:36.079
the job.

826
00:41:36.079 --> 00:41:39.199
They're supposed to do right, either flying under.

827
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:43.519
The radar, or they're really good at micromanaging, or you know,

828
00:41:43.719 --> 00:41:45.760
they don't know how to manage to resolve. So there's

829
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:48.760
kind of an area there where it's it's fear based,

830
00:41:49.800 --> 00:41:52.239
not really based on what the possibilities are any of that.

831
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:55.760
It's just an instant you're sort of putting up your barrier.

832
00:41:57.039 --> 00:42:00.480
To I can't do being something like this. Now we

833
00:42:00.679 --> 00:42:02.440
find on leadership teams.

834
00:42:02.719 --> 00:42:06.719
Is you'll get thirty percent of the leaders bring it on,

835
00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:11.719
you'll get thirty percent of them going not in my company,

836
00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:13.840
and then you've have people on the fence in the middle.

837
00:42:14.559 --> 00:42:21.079
So usually there's enough pull to start adopting an idea

838
00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:24.760
like this through training of course, and bring people along

839
00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:26.639
that might have that fear that they're not going to

840
00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:28.880
be able to perform in this kind of environment.

841
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:33.119
I want to extend this a bit, and I want

842
00:42:33.119 --> 00:42:35.039
to do this for our listeners and viewers in a

843
00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:37.280
way that they receive as you know, you and I

844
00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:41.199
both know is called carefrontation. Because I want this conversation

845
00:42:41.320 --> 00:42:45.119
to be provocative. I want you to question your ideals,

846
00:42:45.480 --> 00:42:47.880
why you do the things that you do. So what

847
00:42:47.960 --> 00:42:50.000
I would put forth based on other authors that I

848
00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:52.079
have had on this program talking about some of these

849
00:42:52.119 --> 00:42:55.920
same things, is there's a few other contributing factors that

850
00:42:55.480 --> 00:42:58.239
that are on the doom sayer side, that say no

851
00:42:58.360 --> 00:43:01.679
can do side. What some of those are is if

852
00:43:01.719 --> 00:43:04.920
I don't, if I don't have this control, people won't

853
00:43:04.960 --> 00:43:07.719
do the work. They don't want to work, people are lazy.

854
00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:11.719
And this whole idea of you know, work is inherently

855
00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:14.559
an achy thing that people have to do. And so

856
00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:16.480
if you know, if I don't, you know, nail their

857
00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:18.360
dairy air to the seat, they're not going to do it.

858
00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:22.320
And so I want you all to really listeners and

859
00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:24.559
viewers to really think about the way you think about

860
00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:26.320
work and accountability and such.

861
00:43:26.599 --> 00:43:28.920
You were going to say, Jody, yes, I was going

862
00:43:29.000 --> 00:43:32.719
to say, it's not the work that sucks, right, so

863
00:43:33.400 --> 00:43:34.679
we're forced to do it?

864
00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:37.199
Yes, right, right, right? And so that's the stuff, these

865
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:41.199
underlying beliefs that are driving all of these crazy, silly,

866
00:43:41.280 --> 00:43:45.000
backwards assumptions. I need you, you know, part of what

867
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:47.199
Jody's work is and so it is ours is to

868
00:43:47.199 --> 00:43:50.639
help illuminate those mindsets and how they're working. Some cases

869
00:43:50.679 --> 00:43:53.159
for you in many cases against you. You got to

870
00:43:53.239 --> 00:43:56.360
first start by understanding what's what's making you think that

871
00:43:56.440 --> 00:43:57.079
this will.

872
00:43:56.880 --> 00:44:01.239
Never work right, And that's that belief system we talked about, Elise,

873
00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:04.159
and I believe that if you know people are in

874
00:44:04.159 --> 00:44:06.320
the office, they're working. I believe that if I'm not,

875
00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:09.440
they're managing by walking around, they won't work.

876
00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:13.679
People will work. People want to get do a good job.

877
00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:17.360
They want to but they have to have the right environment,

878
00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:20.039
like you and I talk about, in order to help

879
00:44:20.079 --> 00:44:21.760
them flourish.

880
00:44:21.800 --> 00:44:24.880
And you know sludge. Getting rid of sludge is a

881
00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:25.840
big first step.

882
00:44:26.360 --> 00:44:29.599
And ran managers out there saying, does everybody on my

883
00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:31.880
team clear about measurable results?

884
00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:35.960
Are they clear about the work? Myself?

885
00:44:36.079 --> 00:44:39.280
That yes? And one thing I also want to reinforce

886
00:44:39.320 --> 00:44:40.960
here that you have in your book, that we also

887
00:44:41.000 --> 00:44:43.599
see when we do our work with organizations is that

888
00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:47.440
when you allow this kind of autonomy that you talk

889
00:44:47.480 --> 00:44:50.880
about accountability an economy and you extend this to people,

890
00:44:50.920 --> 00:44:54.480
now what happens is people are actually more responsible rather

891
00:44:54.559 --> 00:44:57.199
than less, because now they're being rewarded with freedom and

892
00:44:57.239 --> 00:44:59.639
they don't want to lose that and that trust that

893
00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:03.480
you're sending them is delicious for them, and you know

894
00:45:03.519 --> 00:45:06.079
that is something. Now you're treating them like an adult

895
00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:08.760
instead of a child. So now you get this increased

896
00:45:08.800 --> 00:45:12.079
responsibility and leaning in and this willingness to help fellow

897
00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:15.079
team members to get work done because of all of

898
00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:17.199
this condition that you've provided for your people. And it

899
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:18.360
is so beautiful.

900
00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:21.199
It is the people don't want to lose this.

901
00:45:21.800 --> 00:45:27.079
Once they have it, they will work, you know, not

902
00:45:27.320 --> 00:45:28.960
harder in the sense of how we thought about it

903
00:45:28.960 --> 00:45:31.679
in the fifties, but they'll work to make sure that

904
00:45:31.719 --> 00:45:34.920
they're delivering and they'll help their teammates with it tool

905
00:45:35.079 --> 00:45:36.440
because nobody wants to lose it.

906
00:45:36.519 --> 00:45:39.480
That idea that I can own all of my time.

907
00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:42.760
And that doesn't mean I don't go to a meeting

908
00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:44.320
or I don't have to you know, show up.

909
00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:46.679
To open the door at a restaurant. It doesn't mean that.

910
00:45:47.039 --> 00:45:49.960
It means that I am I'm the driver of me.

911
00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:53.159
Right, I'm to see you of my own life. Yes,

912
00:45:53.519 --> 00:45:55.480
that's right, and everybody can be that.

913
00:45:55.599 --> 00:45:59.519
And if people can't, for example, they know what their

914
00:45:59.559 --> 00:46:01.599
results are and they've talked about it with their results

915
00:46:01.599 --> 00:46:03.960
coach and they still can achieve it, then we have

916
00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:09.280
a performance issue. Right, So it's performance conversations really all

917
00:46:09.320 --> 00:46:09.719
the time.

918
00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:13.840
Well, that's the other thing I want to reinforce about

919
00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:15.960
what you say in your book here for a ROW

920
00:46:16.199 --> 00:46:19.440
environment to work, for a ROW culture to work, what

921
00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:23.440
it means more and good better communication with your coworkers,

922
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:26.920
your boss or upper management. So getting more specific about well, what

923
00:46:26.960 --> 00:46:29.639
do I actually need you to deliver? Otherwise that's part

924
00:46:29.639 --> 00:46:32.000
of the problem is I just tell you to get

925
00:46:32.039 --> 00:46:33.840
the job done. Well, what's the actual job? What do

926
00:46:33.880 --> 00:46:35.960
you actually need me to deliver? And so what I

927
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:39.280
really appreciate is that you're also saying that you know,

928
00:46:39.400 --> 00:46:43.119
now managed to become more coaching versus task masters. We're

929
00:46:43.159 --> 00:46:46.159
communicating the value of what we're doing as well as

930
00:46:46.239 --> 00:46:49.360
how we want people to do their work, you know,

931
00:46:49.480 --> 00:46:52.639
actually produce their work, what is good look like. And

932
00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:55.119
most organizations, as you're saying, they don't do that because

933
00:46:55.159 --> 00:46:57.320
they rely on being able to pop in to their

934
00:46:57.360 --> 00:46:59.039
cube or whatever and say, oh I forgot to tell

935
00:46:59.079 --> 00:47:02.159
you this, or oh I actually mean this. So I

936
00:47:02.199 --> 00:47:04.800
think it's really critical that we say that to be

937
00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:07.880
effective in a ROW environment, we have to up our

938
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:08.840
gainment communication.

939
00:47:10.119 --> 00:47:12.440
We absolutely have to. And I like to give people.

940
00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:16.679
This one small example, if I say to you, Elise,

941
00:47:17.239 --> 00:47:17.559
are you.

942
00:47:17.519 --> 00:47:20.719
Going to be in tomorrow? I ask you that question

943
00:47:21.280 --> 00:47:22.159
now for you.

944
00:47:22.639 --> 00:47:25.679
And the results only working r You'd be like, well,

945
00:47:25.719 --> 00:47:27.920
first of all, I'm on the planet.

946
00:47:28.079 --> 00:47:30.000
Right, yeah, right exactly, of course I'm in.

947
00:47:30.679 --> 00:47:31.039
Right, and.

948
00:47:32.519 --> 00:47:35.119
I don't know where I need to be physically if

949
00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:36.719
I don't know what you want or need.

950
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:39.360
So we start off by trying.

951
00:47:39.119 --> 00:47:41.159
To find out where people are, what time they're working,

952
00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:43.360
instead of saying, here's what I need.

953
00:47:43.639 --> 00:47:47.480
Let's talk about when we can do that, Y how

954
00:47:47.519 --> 00:47:48.199
I can get that?

955
00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:51.679
You know, it's not starting out with time and locations,

956
00:47:51.719 --> 00:47:54.280
starting out with just having a conversation.

957
00:47:53.800 --> 00:47:55.880
With somebody about what you need from them, and then

958
00:47:55.920 --> 00:47:58.119
they can decide where their body needs to be.

959
00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:03.360
Right. And I talked about that too in one of

960
00:48:03.360 --> 00:48:05.920
my last books too, is you get rid of where

961
00:48:06.000 --> 00:48:08.800
work gets done? We don't have time to talk about this,

962
00:48:08.840 --> 00:48:10.599
but I just want to say this to listeners and viewers.

963
00:48:10.599 --> 00:48:13.679
There are several really great examples that Jody and her

964
00:48:13.719 --> 00:48:16.679
co author talk about in the book that have gone

965
00:48:16.719 --> 00:48:19.000
to a row environment, and one of them, of course's

966
00:48:19.039 --> 00:48:24.440
Girl Scouts of send Gorgonio council. Anyway, I just want

967
00:48:24.480 --> 00:48:27.400
to pick up the darn book. Read this thing. It's

968
00:48:27.400 --> 00:48:29.840
got just all kinds of stuff that's going to make

969
00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:33.039
you really think differently about yourself, your company, your leadership

970
00:48:33.119 --> 00:48:36.679
and possibilities. So I want to thank you Jody for

971
00:48:36.719 --> 00:48:38.719
writing the book, doing the work that you do. We

972
00:48:38.800 --> 00:48:42.199
are so aligned it's crazy and I love to have

973
00:48:42.280 --> 00:48:43.840
you on today. So thank you for coming on.

974
00:48:44.599 --> 00:48:45.880
It's been my pleasure.

975
00:48:47.639 --> 00:48:49.360
May me say, in like twenty seconds, what would you

976
00:48:49.400 --> 00:48:50.719
like to leave our listeners and viewers with.

977
00:48:52.119 --> 00:48:55.199
I would just like to say that the world is

978
00:48:55.239 --> 00:48:58.519
moving pretty fast, and the world is changing, and we

979
00:48:58.599 --> 00:49:02.119
have the technology to do things differently and be better.

980
00:49:03.199 --> 00:49:06.639
Focus on what matters, the work in your life.

981
00:49:07.800 --> 00:49:10.960
Beautiful way to close, Jody. Thank you listeners and viewers.

982
00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:13.119
You are going to want to learn more about Jodie Thompson,

983
00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:14.800
the work that she and her team do at Culture

984
00:49:14.920 --> 00:49:17.760
r X, and her books, including y Work Sucks, So

985
00:49:17.800 --> 00:49:20.920
start by visiting their website. It's just simply go row

986
00:49:21.119 --> 00:49:23.000
dot com. Let me spell that for you. It's g

987
00:49:23.199 --> 00:49:28.599
O rowe dot com. Goow dot com. Last week, if

988
00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:30.199
you missed the live show, you can always catch it

989
00:49:30.199 --> 00:49:33.880
be recorded podcast. We were on air with Susan mckenttie Brady,

990
00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:37.360
a leadership educator, executive coach, and CEO of Simmons University

991
00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:41.519
Institute for Inclusive Leadership. A Wall Street journalist bestselling author,

992
00:49:41.559 --> 00:49:44.880
Susan's work focuses on the human side of leadership, emphasizing

993
00:49:44.920 --> 00:49:48.039
self awareness, connection, and the relational skills at drive performance.

994
00:49:48.320 --> 00:49:51.079
We talked about her newest book, All the Difference six

995
00:49:51.199 --> 00:49:55.039
Leadership Actions to bridge perspectives, strengthen teams, and create value,

996
00:49:55.119 --> 00:49:58.599
which is all about harnessing your difference intelligence to unite

997
00:49:58.639 --> 00:50:02.559
your team and create dynamic resc through their uniqueness. Next

998
00:50:02.599 --> 00:50:04.920
week will be on air with Opal Mauldon Jones. She's

999
00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:07.320
the city manager of the City of Lancaster, that's a

1000
00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:10.719
Dallas suburb. We'll be talking about her approach over the

1001
00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:14.199
last nine years to intentionally develop her thread and twenty employees,

1002
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:17.880
teach them emotional intelligence and seek more ways to give

1003
00:50:18.039 --> 00:50:20.960
greater access to their community for jobs while also elevating

1004
00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:24.119
the quality of life for the residents they serve. See you,

1005
00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:27.880
then let's continue learning leaning in to help more people flourish,

1006
00:50:28.039 --> 00:50:30.880
elevate your operating system as a leader and create destination

1007
00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:34.400
workplaces where legendary business takes place. Let's work on Purpose.

1008
00:50:37.639 --> 00:50:40.280
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to

1009
00:50:40.320 --> 00:50:44.000
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,

1010
00:50:44.119 --> 00:50:47.440
each week on W four CY. Together, we'll create a

1011
00:50:47.440 --> 00:50:52.079
world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires and passion performance

1012
00:50:52.159 --> 00:50:54.920
and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning

1013
00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:58.760
and purpose They crave see you there. Let's work on Purpose.