Sept. 29, 2026

Your Client Isn’t the Devil: The Myths Keeping Account Leaders Stuck

Show Notes
Transcript

Finding dealing with clients difficult or even impossible? Seven-time entrepreneur and author Paul Drew unpacks the deeply ingrained beliefs that drive perfectionism, burnout, people-pleasing, performative busyness, fear of criticism, resistance to AI, and the assumption that the client is always right. He shares what can help Account Leads, sales professionals, and customer-service leaders manage the damage, build stronger relationships, and thrive in even the most demanding environments.

Working on Purpose is broadcast live Tuesdays at 6PM ET and Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Working on Purpose is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

Working on Purpose Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/working-on-purpose--2643411/support.

WEBVTT

1
00:00:01.970 --> 00:00:05.349
What's working on purpose anyway? Each week, we ponder the

2
00:00:05.429 --> 00:00:08.529
answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose

3
00:00:08.599 --> 00:00:11.939
at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their

4
00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:15.419
lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization

5
00:00:15.460 --> 00:00:18.199
that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their

6
00:00:18.269 --> 00:00:21.269
highest potential. Business can be such a force for good

7
00:00:21.309 --> 00:00:24.890
in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide

8
00:00:24.949 --> 00:00:27.989
guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we

9
00:00:28.070 --> 00:00:32.340
all want, working on purpose. Now, here's your host, Dr.

10
00:00:32.420 --> 00:00:33.500
Elise Cortez.

11
00:00:36.039 --> 00:00:38.179
Welcome back to the Working on Purpose program, which has

12
00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:40.359
been brought to you with Passion Enterprise since February of 2015.

13
00:00:40.359 --> 00:00:42.200
Thanks for tuning in this week.

14
00:00:42.340 --> 00:00:44.700
Great to have you. I'm your host, Dr. Elise Cortez.

15
00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:48.789
I'm an organizational psychologist, workforce advisor, Vistage chair, and the

16
00:00:48.829 --> 00:00:51.549
founder of The Gusto Now Foundation. your partner in growing

17
00:00:51.570 --> 00:00:54.609
your people, leadership, and culture. We are all about helping

18
00:00:54.649 --> 00:00:56.979
you unleash the energy and capacity of your people by

19
00:00:57.380 --> 00:01:00.439
accessing their gusto and unleashing it. The very life force

20
00:01:00.500 --> 00:01:03.439
performance as we see it that drives commitment, perseverance, and

21
00:01:03.500 --> 00:01:06.000
genuine ownership of a shared mission. You can learn more

22
00:01:06.019 --> 00:01:08.680
about us and how we can work together at EliseCortez.com,

23
00:01:08.739 --> 00:01:12.920
my personal site, or our regular site is gusto-now.com. Getting

24
00:01:13.980 --> 00:01:16.340
into today's program, we have with us Paul Drew. He's

25
00:01:16.390 --> 00:01:19.900
a technology executive, program leader, and and a seven-time entrepreneur

26
00:01:19.939 --> 00:01:24.319
whose career has centered on business process improvement, scaling teams,

27
00:01:24.400 --> 00:01:28.090
and delivering large infrastructure programs. He leads Inertia Labs, where

28
00:01:28.150 --> 00:01:32.489
he applies an operator's discipline to complex infrastructure and business challenges.

29
00:01:32.989 --> 00:01:35.549
Paul is the co-author of My Client is the Devil

30
00:01:35.909 --> 00:01:39.450
and Other Myths Revisited, an updated field guide to leadership,

31
00:01:39.590 --> 00:01:43.310
client relationships, and professional effectiveness in the modern workforce. We'll

32
00:01:43.329 --> 00:01:45.209
be talking about what he's learned through his years of

33
00:01:45.670 --> 00:01:47.849
starting and running businesses, and several of the myths he

34
00:01:47.870 --> 00:01:49.329
and his co-authors address in their book.

35
00:01:49.849 --> 00:01:52.409
He joins us today from Dallas. Paul, welcome to Working

36
00:01:52.530 --> 00:01:53.010
on Purpose.

37
00:01:54.030 --> 00:01:55.390
Hi. Thanks for having me.

38
00:01:55.390 --> 00:01:58.010
It's so great to have you, and I really appreciate

39
00:01:58.030 --> 00:02:00.989
that we have known each other for well over 10 years,

40
00:02:01.209 --> 00:02:03.650
and I have watched you do all these things. I've

41
00:02:03.689 --> 00:02:06.209
watched you start these businesses, grow them, and move on

42
00:02:06.250 --> 00:02:09.189
to the next. So we'll be extracting as much wisdom

43
00:02:09.229 --> 00:02:10.550
as we can from this conversation.

44
00:02:10.569 --> 00:02:10.909
You ready?

45
00:02:11.449 --> 00:02:11.810
Yes, ma'am.

46
00:02:13.370 --> 00:02:14.969
Okay, well, let's start.

47
00:02:14.729 --> 00:02:18.669
With, you know, the fun, provocative title that you chose

48
00:02:18.729 --> 00:02:19.289
for your book.

49
00:02:19.389 --> 00:02:21.729
I think it's delightful. My client is the devil.

50
00:02:22.590 --> 00:02:24.770
So let's just start with, you know, why did you

51
00:02:24.810 --> 00:02:26.270
choose such a provocative title?

52
00:02:26.409 --> 00:02:27.069
What's under that?

53
00:02:28.469 --> 00:02:30.889
Well, I love that you started there. And it's kind

54
00:02:30.930 --> 00:02:32.939
of where we start on this whole thing is that

55
00:02:33.120 --> 00:02:36.479
it's easy to look at your client and think of

56
00:02:36.680 --> 00:02:40.259
all the things that go with that word and And

57
00:02:40.300 --> 00:02:42.479
then think of it in a devilish way. They're there

58
00:02:42.500 --> 00:02:45.699
to make our life hard. They're there to cause us trouble.

59
00:02:46.060 --> 00:02:49.280
But the reality is the client is a person. It's

60
00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:51.590
a person that you're trying to connect with with some

61
00:02:51.669 --> 00:02:54.789
shared goals. Now, that person happens to come with a

62
00:02:54.810 --> 00:02:59.250
budget and a schedule and pressures and their own brand

63
00:02:59.469 --> 00:03:03.189
and their own baggage, their own achievements they want to get,

64
00:03:03.229 --> 00:03:06.050
whether it's a gold star or a promotion or hitting

65
00:03:06.069 --> 00:03:09.539
some KPIs. That's where the real friction comes in between

66
00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:12.879
the people is all those things that they bring to

67
00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:16.960
that relationship. And part of why we chose the cover

68
00:03:16.979 --> 00:03:19.759
of the book that we did, which is a Rorschach inkblot,

69
00:03:20.419 --> 00:03:22.759
is to show the idea that you see what you

70
00:03:22.780 --> 00:03:25.039
want to see out of this. So if you choose

71
00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:28.120
to see the client as a devil, that's how you're

72
00:03:28.139 --> 00:03:30.979
going to interpret what they do. But if you choose

73
00:03:31.020 --> 00:03:32.960
to look at it through different lenses and realize they're

74
00:03:32.979 --> 00:03:36.080
a person just like you trying to accomplish the goals,

75
00:03:36.539 --> 00:03:38.840
you'll have a much higher chance of hitting the goals

76
00:03:38.900 --> 00:03:41.909
and connecting with the person and getting beyond the devil

77
00:03:41.939 --> 00:03:44.889
monochrome into a strong relationship over time.

78
00:03:46.330 --> 00:03:47.210
Beautifully explained.

79
00:03:47.330 --> 00:03:50.009
And you're reminding me of some of the work I've

80
00:03:50.030 --> 00:03:52.569
done over the years around breakthrough and innovation. And there's

81
00:03:52.590 --> 00:03:56.469
this idea that everyone starts to develop a listening for

82
00:03:56.530 --> 00:04:00.300
someone else. And so you're anticipating what who this person

83
00:04:00.340 --> 00:04:02.219
is and what they're doing. You have a listening for

84
00:04:02.699 --> 00:04:05.490
what they're going to bring forward according to what you

85
00:04:05.539 --> 00:04:08.569
expect because of your past experiences and that lens and

86
00:04:08.650 --> 00:04:11.090
all the projecting stuff you're talking about. And it is

87
00:04:11.129 --> 00:04:13.889
incredibly powerful. And many times we have to learn how

88
00:04:13.909 --> 00:04:17.529
to intervene in that because sometimes that listening is really

89
00:04:17.569 --> 00:04:20.629
strong and positive, but other times it becomes a very,

90
00:04:20.670 --> 00:04:21.850
very negative.

91
00:04:23.569 --> 00:04:24.290
Downward spiral.

92
00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:28.199
Yeah, I like to think about Epictetus and Stoicism. He

93
00:04:28.240 --> 00:04:31.579
talks about every situation as two handles, one that you

94
00:04:31.620 --> 00:04:35.699
can carry and one that you can't. And that idea

95
00:04:35.740 --> 00:04:40.689
and concept is really helpful to recognize which handle you're

96
00:04:40.730 --> 00:04:43.670
trying to grab from. If you're trying to grab from

97
00:04:43.689 --> 00:04:45.160
the broken one that's not going to work for you,

98
00:04:45.170 --> 00:04:46.889
you're going to grab from the one that actually you

99
00:04:46.930 --> 00:04:48.850
can carry it with, take it with you, and resolve

100
00:04:48.870 --> 00:04:51.709
it with. I really love that. It helps the same

101
00:04:52.170 --> 00:04:53.449
duality of a situation.

102
00:04:54.050 --> 00:04:57.060
Mm-hmm. You know, of course, so much of your book,

103
00:04:57.100 --> 00:04:59.220
of course, I resonate with because so many of the

104
00:04:59.259 --> 00:05:00.839
things that you're teaching in that book are also part

105
00:05:00.860 --> 00:05:04.079
of what we teach in our consulting in our programs. So,

106
00:05:04.259 --> 00:05:06.660
of course, I have to celebrate the inside-out shift that

107
00:05:06.680 --> 00:05:09.160
you talk about. And you talk about it in the book,

108
00:05:09.180 --> 00:05:10.959
and you argue that the goal is not simply to

109
00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:13.720
make the client easier, but to help the account lead

110
00:05:13.740 --> 00:05:18.329
to feel better and function better. So this emotional self-management

111
00:05:18.389 --> 00:05:20.769
is the foundation for better business results, you argue, and

112
00:05:20.790 --> 00:05:22.970
I would agree. And I think you might be just

113
00:05:23.009 --> 00:05:24.970
saying that, just writing that, because you know it would

114
00:05:25.089 --> 00:05:26.050
actually melt my heart.

115
00:05:26.550 --> 00:05:28.189
But let's dive into that.

116
00:05:29.069 --> 00:05:32.050
Well, there's another phrase that comes after that sentence that

117
00:05:32.069 --> 00:05:33.850
we use a lot in the book. It's about managing

118
00:05:33.910 --> 00:05:38.980
the damage. All throughout the day, we're taking shrapnel and

119
00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:42.220
we're dealing with a lot of cognitive load, a lot

120
00:05:42.240 --> 00:05:46.160
of emotional labor that comes up throughout the day in

121
00:05:46.220 --> 00:05:51.230
how you interact with other people. But your brain... And

122
00:05:51.250 --> 00:05:54.250
your thoughts is the one thing in this world that

123
00:05:54.310 --> 00:05:56.930
you can control. I know many people are going to

124
00:05:56.949 --> 00:05:58.829
listen to this and argue, I can't control my brain.

125
00:05:58.910 --> 00:06:01.509
And I'll say, well, that's part of the problem. You

126
00:06:01.540 --> 00:06:03.339
got to be able to get control of your brain.

127
00:06:03.639 --> 00:06:05.879
It's the one thing that you can influence. You can

128
00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:08.959
influence your body to be healthy and strong by treating

129
00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:10.720
it well, feeding it well, going to the gym. But

130
00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:14.399
you can't stop something from happening to it. The one

131
00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:17.720
thing we can control is our actions and how we

132
00:06:17.779 --> 00:06:21.699
respond to the situation. So this whole premise around that

133
00:06:21.779 --> 00:06:23.459
is you got to get your head right before you're

134
00:06:23.490 --> 00:06:25.649
going to get anything else right, because otherwise you're going

135
00:06:25.670 --> 00:06:28.629
to be in for a really long, painful adventure.

136
00:06:28.629 --> 00:06:32.509
100% Paul, 100%.

137
00:06:32.509 --> 00:06:32.769
Okay.

138
00:06:32.810 --> 00:06:35.250
Now we've been talking about how the client is the devil,

139
00:06:35.449 --> 00:06:39.110
but we do know that there are some difficult clients, right?

140
00:06:39.750 --> 00:06:41.509
That we just have to deal with. It's part of

141
00:06:41.529 --> 00:06:41.949
the package.

142
00:06:42.769 --> 00:06:45.009
I can think of a couple of clients years ago

143
00:06:45.189 --> 00:06:47.910
when we had this online feedback portal for the HR space,

144
00:06:48.610 --> 00:06:50.069
and we were recording some of them, and I was

145
00:06:50.129 --> 00:06:54.350
amazed at the size of some of these egos. So

146
00:06:54.370 --> 00:06:57.949
what I'd like to explore here is what can a demanding, vague,

147
00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:01.339
or unpleasant client actually teach us about our own blind spots,

148
00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:04.879
these assumptions we've been talking about, and even habitual reactions?

149
00:07:05.949 --> 00:07:10.709
Yeah, I love this question. I'm reminded of Marcus Aurelius

150
00:07:10.769 --> 00:07:13.649
in his meditations journal. You know, he wasn't attending for

151
00:07:13.689 --> 00:07:15.379
other people to read it, but he wrote to himself

152
00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:18.899
about today. He was going to meet dishonest people. He

153
00:07:18.939 --> 00:07:20.899
was going to meet liars. He was going to meet

154
00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:24.180
people that were up to no good. And so, therefore,

155
00:07:24.199 --> 00:07:27.370
it should be no surprise when he encountered them and

156
00:07:27.410 --> 00:07:29.670
shouldn't be offended. Like, how did these people exist? We

157
00:07:29.709 --> 00:07:33.420
know these people exist. But taking that and putting it

158
00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:37.060
aside and thinking about where the imbalance might be from

159
00:07:37.100 --> 00:07:40.040
what a client wants and where you're at and ready

160
00:07:40.100 --> 00:07:43.050
to be able to service them. A mentor earlier in

161
00:07:43.089 --> 00:07:46.230
my career told me that every time that I come

162
00:07:46.569 --> 00:07:49.550
with a tough situation, it's like going to the gym

163
00:07:49.589 --> 00:07:52.939
and hitting a new muscle group. You got to tear

164
00:07:52.949 --> 00:07:54.639
it down before you can build it up. And that

165
00:07:54.680 --> 00:07:58.269
process has to repeat. Every time that you're in front

166
00:07:58.290 --> 00:08:02.490
of a customer or working on engagement is a rep.

167
00:08:02.750 --> 00:08:06.310
It's a batting average. No one hits perfect. But every

168
00:08:06.350 --> 00:08:07.949
time you get up, you want to swing a little

169
00:08:07.990 --> 00:08:10.589
bit more. So if you got this client that, oh,

170
00:08:10.629 --> 00:08:12.600
my God, they're pushing this compliance on you and you

171
00:08:12.629 --> 00:08:16.529
don't have time and nobody wants compliance, have news for you.

172
00:08:16.540 --> 00:08:19.079
That's going to make your business better. That's going to

173
00:08:19.100 --> 00:08:22.740
make it stronger, more defensible, and it may actually let

174
00:08:22.779 --> 00:08:25.040
you learn a lot more about what you didn't know.

175
00:08:25.810 --> 00:08:29.129
And so every area of opportunity is really what those

176
00:08:29.329 --> 00:08:32.970
challenges become. If we're only brave enough to see it

177
00:08:33.029 --> 00:08:36.779
as an opportunity to grow and become better, because otherwise

178
00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:39.120
we're just doing the same thing over and over again.

179
00:08:39.139 --> 00:08:42.019
And that's pretty boring, isn't it? So I started like

180
00:08:42.100 --> 00:08:46.379
leaning into customer challenges. And I'd say one of the

181
00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:48.799
hallmarks of my career is I like talking to customers

182
00:08:48.820 --> 00:08:51.799
and saying, what's keeping you up at night? What's going

183
00:08:51.840 --> 00:08:53.820
on with you? And I kind of like poke and

184
00:08:53.899 --> 00:08:57.299
pick around to find their hard spots because that's where

185
00:08:57.320 --> 00:08:59.980
I know there's going to be some real value, not

186
00:09:00.039 --> 00:09:02.100
only in my own growth, but helping them with something

187
00:09:02.139 --> 00:09:04.259
maybe they haven't even surfaced yet because they don't know

188
00:09:04.299 --> 00:09:07.580
how to. So that is real. The real, I think,

189
00:09:08.259 --> 00:09:11.340
metal of a relationship comes in is really tackling the

190
00:09:11.379 --> 00:09:13.299
hard things, not the easy things. Everyone can deal with

191
00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:16.820
the easy things, especially in perfect circumstances. But when is

192
00:09:16.860 --> 00:09:18.220
life perfect circumstances?

193
00:09:18.779 --> 00:09:20.500
Yeah, so true. So true.

194
00:09:21.990 --> 00:09:24.289
You said something really powerful there, Paul, that I want

195
00:09:24.309 --> 00:09:27.590
to go down this track just a little bit. Something

196
00:09:27.629 --> 00:09:31.049
about helping them articulate what they maybe didn't even know themselves,

197
00:09:31.090 --> 00:09:35.190
something like that. I am convinced, 100% convinced, that so

198
00:09:35.210 --> 00:09:37.490
much of the work that we do around helping to

199
00:09:37.529 --> 00:09:42.149
grow individuals and leaders and culture, the problems that are

200
00:09:42.190 --> 00:09:45.350
underneath that are really, really difficult to talk about and

201
00:09:45.490 --> 00:09:48.299
to get connected to. And I think so much of

202
00:09:48.379 --> 00:09:50.500
the work, your work, what you're just now describing there

203
00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:52.500
with your clients, and the work that we do too,

204
00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:56.629
is really getting faster and more efficient and effective at

205
00:09:56.730 --> 00:09:59.950
helping them to connect with that problem, articulate it for themselves.

206
00:10:00.340 --> 00:10:04.100
so they understand it and then therefore it's addressable yeah.

207
00:10:04.500 --> 00:10:09.639
I agree yeah there's a lot of challenge particularly in

208
00:10:09.639 --> 00:10:16.590
2026 as we're recording this with the ever-present feeling that

209
00:10:16.629 --> 00:10:18.549
we have to be perfect and we have to be

210
00:10:18.590 --> 00:10:23.429
fast And those two things are not in congruence with

211
00:10:23.470 --> 00:10:23.809
each other.

212
00:10:23.830 --> 00:10:26.769
Boy, isn't that the truth.

213
00:10:27.610 --> 00:10:31.500
Well, that gets us to start jumping in some of

214
00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:34.220
these myths here. There's a cluster here, and one of

215
00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:37.639
them is perfection, truth, and failure, which I want to

216
00:10:37.659 --> 00:10:39.440
get into those to the extent that we don't need

217
00:10:39.460 --> 00:10:42.009
to go heavy dive into them. But I think that

218
00:10:42.049 --> 00:10:44.990
you've done a beautiful job, and I love watching what

219
00:10:45.009 --> 00:10:47.570
you're doing on LinkedIn, too, where you're taking these myths

220
00:10:47.950 --> 00:10:52.110
and sharing them as well. But perfection, truth, and failure.

221
00:10:52.169 --> 00:10:55.600
So these beliefs, I must be flawless. My way is

222
00:10:55.629 --> 00:10:57.399
the right way. Boy, that's one of my favorites, by

223
00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:00.700
the way. And criticism means I'm a failure. So they

224
00:11:00.759 --> 00:11:02.919
reinforce each other. So let's talk about these myths, however

225
00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:05.000
you want to address them and help bring them to

226
00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:07.200
life for us and why they're actually myths. What's a

227
00:11:07.240 --> 00:11:08.419
better way for us to view them?

228
00:11:09.250 --> 00:11:16.250
Well, myths are really... are takeaways from society. They're things

229
00:11:16.289 --> 00:11:20.809
that we've heard or interpreted or sometimes we're explicitly told

230
00:11:21.110 --> 00:11:23.889
to do. When it comes to parents, for example, a

231
00:11:23.929 --> 00:11:26.340
lot of parents are like, I said so, that's why.

232
00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:29.100
And we get into, well, that's the way we do

233
00:11:29.159 --> 00:11:32.799
it because that's the way mom said it. What I

234
00:11:32.840 --> 00:11:35.519
like to do instead is say, you know, we can

235
00:11:35.580 --> 00:11:37.830
all agree there's more than one right ways to do things.

236
00:11:38.730 --> 00:11:44.659
And I encourage people to be open-minded and curious. But

237
00:11:44.759 --> 00:11:51.220
most professionals are adapting imperfectly to what's happening based on

238
00:11:51.320 --> 00:11:54.899
these myths that they're bringing into situations. And they don't

239
00:11:55.019 --> 00:11:57.379
feel like they have the opportunity to make a failure.

240
00:11:57.419 --> 00:12:00.919
We've heard people say, go fast, break things, you know,

241
00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:04.000
fail fast. I don't want to feel fast. Do you

242
00:12:04.019 --> 00:12:05.769
want to feel fast? I don't want to look silly.

243
00:12:05.809 --> 00:12:08.789
That's for the other guy. And so there's this ego

244
00:12:08.850 --> 00:12:12.970
preservation that kind of steps into that. But if you're

245
00:12:12.990 --> 00:12:15.610
not learning, you're not growing. And my wife is, she

246
00:12:15.649 --> 00:12:17.889
summed this up perfectly for me one time. She said,

247
00:12:17.929 --> 00:12:20.289
how can you learn anything if you know it already?

248
00:12:22.289 --> 00:12:26.409
And so, especially as a leader, It's important for me

249
00:12:26.450 --> 00:12:30.070
to start asking a lot of questions instead of saying, no,

250
00:12:30.690 --> 00:12:32.980
my job is to lead people to where I think

251
00:12:33.009 --> 00:12:36.320
there might be trouble and they can help me figure

252
00:12:36.360 --> 00:12:38.360
out if they've thought about it or not. And sometimes

253
00:12:38.379 --> 00:12:40.399
that helps them get there without me having to call

254
00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:44.960
their baby ugly. So also making it safe to your

255
00:12:44.980 --> 00:12:48.539
teams and everyone involved you that it's okay. This is

256
00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:52.289
an imperfect art. But I think that it really needs

257
00:12:52.309 --> 00:12:56.429
to literally be said out loud to allow people to

258
00:12:56.500 --> 00:13:02.240
feel safe to make mistakes. But feedback from others becomes

259
00:13:02.320 --> 00:13:04.679
data that helps us improve at the end of the day.

260
00:13:04.740 --> 00:13:07.419
In the absence of that, how do you know? How

261
00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:10.210
do you know? I've talked to a lot of people

262
00:13:10.250 --> 00:13:13.610
that have been doing this for 25 years, and I

263
00:13:13.629 --> 00:13:16.750
start talking to them. It's the same year 25 times.

264
00:13:16.789 --> 00:13:21.769
There's been no growth. There's been no learning because they've

265
00:13:21.809 --> 00:13:25.389
got their way of doing things. And it doesn't move

266
00:13:25.450 --> 00:13:26.190
us forward as people.

267
00:13:26.669 --> 00:13:28.149
No, it doesn't. And that's so much of the work

268
00:13:28.169 --> 00:13:29.149
that we do as well, Paul.

269
00:13:29.210 --> 00:13:30.850
And I want to go back to what you just

270
00:13:30.870 --> 00:13:34.539
said there on the criticism and feedback loop. I know

271
00:13:34.759 --> 00:13:37.279
we've had the privilege of working with some companies to

272
00:13:37.299 --> 00:13:40.710
help them develop their culture so that it does include

273
00:13:40.750 --> 00:13:43.509
this notion that, you know, we're, we're an organization that

274
00:13:43.610 --> 00:13:46.029
thrives on feedback and we give it in a way

275
00:13:46.049 --> 00:13:49.190
that's intended to honor the other person, to care for

276
00:13:49.210 --> 00:13:51.500
the other person, to extend the other person and support

277
00:13:51.559 --> 00:13:54.960
that person in their growth. And when you create an

278
00:13:55.019 --> 00:13:58.889
environment where that's how feedback is experienced and You're going

279
00:13:58.909 --> 00:14:01.019
to always have to deal with people that experience feedback

280
00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:04.740
as a form of rejection or removal of love as

281
00:14:04.759 --> 00:14:06.919
they were growing up. That's just part of the human condition.

282
00:14:07.419 --> 00:14:09.200
But where it gets so exciting is when you see

283
00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:12.809
these organizations where they really have created a psychologically safe

284
00:14:12.850 --> 00:14:16.370
space for people to give feedback that's supportive, it's real,

285
00:14:16.590 --> 00:14:20.370
it's constructive, and for the other person to receive it

286
00:14:20.889 --> 00:14:23.559
in a way that it's the gift that they got

287
00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:25.179
from their colleague.

288
00:14:25.259 --> 00:14:26.220
It's not a condemnation.

289
00:14:30.029 --> 00:14:31.830
I agree. Sorry, someone called me and I had to

290
00:14:31.909 --> 00:14:32.269
cancel it.

291
00:14:32.789 --> 00:14:36.120
You're so good. Just running a company while I'm doing

292
00:14:36.139 --> 00:14:36.940
the podcast, that's all.

293
00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:39.980
Just bear with me at least. I got you, Paul.

294
00:14:42.179 --> 00:14:45.419
That is just priceless. And it's perfect for people that

295
00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:47.340
are listening, knowing that you've started seven companies.

296
00:14:47.419 --> 00:14:48.799
And we'll get to that at some point as well.

297
00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:53.149
Okay, so we have to hit the, there's an exhaustion

298
00:14:53.210 --> 00:14:56.529
cluster as well that I thought was really interesting. The martyrdom,

299
00:14:56.570 --> 00:14:58.250
the productivity, the visibility factor.

300
00:14:59.039 --> 00:14:59.600
Oh my gosh.

301
00:14:59.639 --> 00:15:02.919
And so, so many professionals are equating suffering and constant

302
00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:07.230
output and being seen with, with having, with being valued

303
00:15:07.289 --> 00:15:10.110
and providing value. So let's talk about those kinds of myths.

304
00:15:10.870 --> 00:15:13.549
I would love to, I am very guilty about this.

305
00:15:13.669 --> 00:15:16.350
I work myself a lot and there's no one meaner

306
00:15:16.389 --> 00:15:19.139
in this world to me than me. I'm working on that.

307
00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:23.480
And I know that most people listening feel that, um,

308
00:15:25.649 --> 00:15:27.950
There's a million things I could point out to why

309
00:15:28.029 --> 00:15:31.269
our society, particularly in America, has turned into hustle culture.

310
00:15:31.570 --> 00:15:34.230
Everywhere you look is crying for greatness. Just do it.

311
00:15:34.769 --> 00:15:37.429
Everything is screaming at us to go harder, go faster.

312
00:15:38.730 --> 00:15:42.779
We've watched everyone have to sink to multiple income streams

313
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:47.500
and everyone is trying to achieve their new idealistic version

314
00:15:47.539 --> 00:15:50.679
of success. And everyone says, you got to just work

315
00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:53.080
real hard for it. You have Elon saying he works

316
00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:57.230
100 hours a week and It's just omnipresent everywhere is

317
00:15:57.289 --> 00:16:02.639
that it's more, more, more, never less. But as I've

318
00:16:02.659 --> 00:16:06.659
gotten older in my career, less is certainly more. I

319
00:16:06.700 --> 00:16:11.039
find that as I continue to work harder, that work

320
00:16:11.100 --> 00:16:13.340
is actually just me cleaning up my own mess from

321
00:16:13.639 --> 00:16:18.059
fatigue and lazy decisions that should have been thought through more.

322
00:16:18.159 --> 00:16:20.000
And then I'm in a cycle of cleaning up my

323
00:16:20.070 --> 00:16:22.470
own mess. So slowing down to speed up, it's been

324
00:16:22.490 --> 00:16:25.950
one of the greatest gifts I gave myself. Sometimes I

325
00:16:25.970 --> 00:16:27.750
sit here at the computer and I've got something on

326
00:16:27.789 --> 00:16:29.470
my heart, you know, my head. I'm trying to figure

327
00:16:29.509 --> 00:16:33.110
out how to solve something. There's a lot of distractions.

328
00:16:33.129 --> 00:16:38.269
There's a lot of screens. And I get up and

329
00:16:38.289 --> 00:16:41.549
I'll go start a little laundry or empty the dishwasher

330
00:16:41.929 --> 00:16:43.950
or go for a walk. And sometimes just the act

331
00:16:43.990 --> 00:16:46.429
of walking downstairs, go pet my cat, come back up,

332
00:16:46.509 --> 00:16:49.830
I'll get the answer. But it's the space. As a

333
00:16:49.990 --> 00:16:54.470
species in society, there is no space anymore. Right. I

334
00:16:54.509 --> 00:16:56.350
know when you were younger, when I was younger, I

335
00:16:56.409 --> 00:16:59.929
had to entertain myself for hours and days on end

336
00:17:00.830 --> 00:17:04.190
and come up with ideas and things. And now there's

337
00:17:04.230 --> 00:17:06.190
no shortage of things to have our attention. So what

338
00:17:06.210 --> 00:17:08.430
we haven't done is allow that space to come back

339
00:17:08.529 --> 00:17:11.359
in to give us the freedom to make decisions.

340
00:17:12.450 --> 00:17:14.000
I will comment on that a bit more, but let's

341
00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:17.059
grab our first break. I'm your host, Dr. Elise Cortez.

342
00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:18.259
We're on the air with Paul Drew.

343
00:17:18.339 --> 00:17:21.880
He's a technology executive, program leader, and a seven-time entrepreneur

344
00:17:21.940 --> 00:17:25.519
whose career has centered on business process improvement, scaling teams,

345
00:17:25.579 --> 00:17:29.259
and delivering large infrastructure programs. He leads inertial labs where

346
00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:33.289
he applies an operator's discipline to complex infrastructure and business challenges.

347
00:17:33.630 --> 00:17:36.789
We've been diving into the myths in his book and

348
00:17:36.849 --> 00:17:40.750
also extracting some knowledge and perspective from his business ventures.

349
00:17:41.289 --> 00:17:43.730
After the break, we will continue discussion on these myths

350
00:17:43.859 --> 00:17:46.160
as well as talking about the fractured workplace.

351
00:17:46.359 --> 00:17:46.940
We'll be right back.

352
00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:56.029
Thank you.

353
00:18:02.269 --> 00:18:02.549
Dr.

354
00:18:02.609 --> 00:18:06.390
Elise Cortez is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose,

355
00:18:06.609 --> 00:18:10.430
an inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies visioneer for

356
00:18:10.470 --> 00:18:15.019
greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose-inspired leadership and meaning-infused

357
00:18:15.059 --> 00:18:19.180
cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce.

358
00:18:19.579 --> 00:18:21.720
To learn more or to invite Elise to speak to

359
00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:26.460
your organization, please visit her at EliseCortez.com. Let's talk about

360
00:18:26.529 --> 00:18:34.779
how to get your employees working on purpose. This is

361
00:18:34.839 --> 00:18:38.119
Working on Purpose with Dr. Elise Cortez. To reach our

362
00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:41.269
program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send

363
00:18:41.309 --> 00:18:47.630
an email to Elise, A-L-I-S-E, at EliseCortez.com. Now, back to

364
00:18:47.710 --> 00:18:48.809
Working on Purpose.

365
00:18:53.970 --> 00:18:55.650
Thanks for staying with us and welcome back to Working

366
00:18:55.710 --> 00:18:57.220
on Purpose. I am your host, Dr.

367
00:18:57.279 --> 00:18:57.960
Elise Cortez.

368
00:18:58.619 --> 00:19:00.480
As I am dedicated to helping create a world where

369
00:19:00.579 --> 00:19:02.960
organizations thrive because their people thrive and they're led by

370
00:19:03.019 --> 00:19:05.440
inspirational leaders that help them find and contribute their greatness.

371
00:19:05.960 --> 00:19:07.660
And we do business that betters the world. I keep

372
00:19:07.700 --> 00:19:10.019
researching and writing my own books. So one of my

373
00:19:10.059 --> 00:19:13.019
latest came out, it's called The Great Revitalization, How Activating

374
00:19:13.079 --> 00:19:16.099
Meaning and Purpose Can Radically Enliven Your Business. And I

375
00:19:16.119 --> 00:19:19.240
wrote it to help leaders understand today's very diverse and

376
00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:21.700
discerning workforce. What do they want and need from you

377
00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:23.980
to give their best and stick around? And then I

378
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:26.380
give you 22 best practices to equip you to provide

379
00:19:26.420 --> 00:19:29.160
that for them through your leadership and your culture. You

380
00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:32.690
can find my books on Amazon or my personal site, EliseCortez.com.

381
00:19:33.690 --> 00:19:35.390
If you are just now tuning in, my guest is

382
00:19:35.430 --> 00:19:37.849
Paul Drew. He's the co-author of My Client is the

383
00:19:37.869 --> 00:19:41.869
Devil and Other Myths Revisited, an updated field guide to leadership,

384
00:19:41.930 --> 00:19:46.309
client relationships, and professional effectiveness in the modern workplace. So

385
00:19:46.329 --> 00:19:48.109
going back to what we were talking about before the break,

386
00:19:48.170 --> 00:19:51.430
I want to go down two different lanes here. One

387
00:19:51.559 --> 00:19:54.720
is that space to think that you mentioned. When you

388
00:19:54.759 --> 00:19:56.400
go to start a load of laundry or go down

389
00:19:56.420 --> 00:19:58.319
and spend some time and pet the cat.

390
00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:00.940
I love cats, by the way. So one of the

391
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:01.519
things we.

392
00:20:01.400 --> 00:20:04.400
Consistently hear, Paul, from the people or the organizations we

393
00:20:04.420 --> 00:20:05.839
work with, and we do a lot of work with leaders,

394
00:20:05.900 --> 00:20:08.599
is they say that the time that they have with

395
00:20:08.680 --> 00:20:12.210
us is that crucial time critical time that gives them

396
00:20:12.250 --> 00:20:14.849

Your Client Isn’t the Devil: The Myths Keeping Account Leaders Stuck

Listen On

Featured Episodes

Recent Episodes