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Sept. 9, 2026

Unleashing Innovation at Scale: The ABCs of Leadership

Unleashing Innovation at Scale: The ABCs of Leadership
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Scaling innovation requires more than ideas—it demands leaders who embody what Jason Wild and his co-authors call “the ABCs”: architect, bridger, and catalyst. Architects build cultures and capabilities that enable co-creation within teams. Bridgers connect across boundaries to access external talent and tools. Catalysts ignite movements that spread innovation across entire ecosystems. When leaders learn to activate these roles, they unlock and amplify the genius already inside their company.

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WEBVTT

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What's working on purpose anyway? Each week, we ponder the

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answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose

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at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their

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lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization

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that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their

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highest potential. Business can be such a force for good

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in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide

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guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we

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all want, working on purpose. Now, here's your host, Dr.

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Elise Cortez.

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Welcome back to the Working on Purpose program, which has

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been brought to you with passion and pride since February

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of 2015 already. Thanks for tuning in this week. Great

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to have you. I'm your host, Dr. Elise Cortez. Most

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leaders are sitting on untapped human energy and capacity, and

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I help them unlock it. I'm an organizational psychologist, logotherapist,

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workforce advisor, and the founder of the Gusto Now movement.

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But my favorite title is much simpler. I traffic in energy,

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not the surface level motivation or another engagement initiative, but

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the deeper force, what I call Gusto. the life force

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for performance that drives commitment, perseverance, and genuine ownership of

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a shared mission in the clients we serve. You can

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learn more about us and how we can work together

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at gusto-now.com, or my personal site is alicecortez.com. Getting into

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today's program, we have with us Jason Wild. He's a

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strategic advisor and growth executive. After building and scaling innovation

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teams and strategic revenue programs at Microsoft, Salesforce, and IBM

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that influenced six-plus billion dollars in enterprise deals, He founded

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Wild Innovation Strategy Excellence to help leaders of companies transform, innovate,

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and grow. He's the co-author of Genius at Scale, How

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Great Leaders Drive Innovation, which we'll be talking about today.

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He joined today from the Connecticut area. Jason, welcome to

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Working on Purpose.

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Thank you, Elise. It's wonderful to be here with you.

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I'm so grateful to have you on. We met some

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time back, and as you know, I devoured this beautiful

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book that you brought forth into the world. It's gorgeous,

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and it's chock full of so many great examples of

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how organizations and leaders are doing this thing called innovation well,

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which we'll get to some of those examples later on.

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But before we do, let's hear a bit more, if

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we can. I just introduced a bit about your background,

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but if you would just share a bit about your

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background and how it is that you came together with

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your other two co-authors Linda and Emily to write this book.

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And that alone is already quite a triumph to do

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this with two other authors, by the way, Jason.

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It is.

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It is.

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And we're still friends, which I think is the most

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important thing. Exactly.

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Exactly.

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Believe it or not, almost 10 years later.

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And so, yeah, when Linda invited me, Linda Hill, my co-author,

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who's the chair of the leadership program at Harvard Business School,

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and I've known Linda for many, many years, but when

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she invited me to co-author and write her next book,

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In the moment, I thought it was a candid camera

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moment of like, oh, that's a good one, Linda.

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Very funny. You got me on that.

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And obviously, I'm really honored and privileged that out of

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all the people she's gotten to know and collaborate with

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over the years that she picked me. And so I

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got to know Linda first and then her research assistant,

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Emily Tedderts, several years later. But I came across Linda

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when I had just left IBM. I kind of started

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my career at IBM, spent 13 lucky and wonderful years.

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At IBM, kind of beginning my career. And I often tell.

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People that it was really career changing because on IBM's nickel,

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I worked on client innovation projects around the world on

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pretty much every continent. I think if there was work

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to be done in Antarctica and sell something there, they

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probably would have sent me there too. I had left IBM,

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joined Salesforce, and leaving a company that was on the

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verge of celebrating its 100th anniversary, IBM, and then joining Salesforce,

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which had recently at that time been a startup and

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maybe 12, 13 years old when I joined them in

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hyper growth mode. remit at Salesforce was to bring a

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lot of the consultative selling the client centricity of IBM

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into the world of Salesforce and to lead a global

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innovation team and so really really lucky to do that

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at a place like Salesforce and the first couple of

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years that's how I came across Linda and because I

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had many conversations with people in consulting and academia right and.

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Work my own family and.

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But Linda just kind of saw the world differently, I think,

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first and foremost.

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Around innovation.

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Innovation is a very exciting, sexy, if you will, topic

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that approaches all sorts of opinions and sometimes wannabes. But

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it was really refreshing that Linda had a realistic view

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of kind of the messy, gritty side that often people

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see the outcome, the great idea that changes a system

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or something, But Linda really appreciated kind of the hard

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work and the grittiness that often was left on the

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editing floor.

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So that was number one. I think number two was

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also her view on leadership.

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In the first conversation, I'll never forget that She just

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got me thinking about my own self-awareness as a leader,

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which to this day, at least when people ask me,

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I really think that self-awareness is probably the most underappreciated

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characteristic of any great leader.

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But she had written a book many years ago.

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Called Being the Boss, which focuses on managing yourself as

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a leader, managing your own team, and then managing your network.

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And it was the third part that was great. Really

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eye-opening for me. And I had multiple brain turns just

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in the first conversation with her.

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Because I had.

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Seen kind of managing the people who were outside of

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your own team as kind of politics.

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So in my own head, it was like, oh, how

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do I minimize this? How do I avoid it?

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Almost like a Dilbert cartoon in a bad way. But

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Linda was the one who really got me to realize.

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That I frankly wasn't doing my job.

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And I needed to really focus on building these relationships

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where trust was maybe low or nonexistent because those dependencies

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were going to make or break whether my team was

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going to succeed or not.

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So the first conversation really hit it off, and we

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stayed in touch. And then several years later, she invited

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me to write the book. And I think as she

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describes it, it's because I'm a practitioner. I've been an operator.

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I've led projects in 40 countries.

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And she really enjoys creating a multi-generation team. So I'm

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kind of in the middle, more leaning towards the 30-plus

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years of experience.

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And we thought it was important.

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We're going to write a book about collaborating to innovate

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and co-creation that... that we have to have to actually

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like live and breathe the work ourselves, uh, and be

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a team that embraces that collaboration and experimentation. And it

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wasn't always easy, right. Bringing kind of different perspectives and ideas. Um,

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and you know, the book almost took 10 years, but

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we're all convinced that we wouldn't have had the same

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output if we tried to do this individual.

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Um, so yeah, it, uh, the the triad of uh

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of the authorship group.

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And and uh and her eye for detail and and

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beginner's mind and in many other.

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Aspects were just huge to the to the book and.

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When you write a book you've written a book at

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least you never know what the reaction is going to

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be from the marketplace which is part of the.

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Fun i understand yeah A beautiful way to introduce the

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book where it came from and also really start us

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into just I love how you talk about the grittiness

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of innovation.

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I think you're right. A lot of people don't recognize

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just what it takes to on the other side of

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that creativity. So let's situate here. I don't think we

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can go a day without hearing how important innovation is.

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Right.

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But but let's hear more about why leaders need to

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really think about driving innovation organizations. What's at stake here?

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What's why is this so important?

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Yeah, well, I think with the technology that has arrived

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just in the last couple of years, I think it's

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fair to say that we're embarking on yet another industrial revolution.

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It's not me saying it or my co-authors. This is

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organizations like the World Economic Forum and the Drucker Institute

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and many others. These are sort of a big deal,

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as you know, Elise, because we may not see it now.

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But eventually it changes how we work and live. And

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I think what makes this industrial revolution different than the

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prior ones, where you had a singular technology, you know,

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changing systems, right, for steam and electricity, and then eventually

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computational power PCs and computers and the Internet. Here we,

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of course, have AI, but we also have other technologies

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like quantum and blockchains. and next generation telecommunications, which arguably

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each one of these individually could be the catalyst, you know, enough.

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Of an industrial revolution. But we have them kind of

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arriving around the same time, feeding off of each other.

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So it makes, first, before we even get to innovation,

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it makes leadership tougher than.

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It's ever been.

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Yes, 100%.

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Right?

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And, you know, one of the things we talk about

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in the book is this notion of wayfinding. And you

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could say that kind of classic leadership, leadership over the

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last 90, 100 years, you know, around industry and business.

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Has been defined by kind of what we call pathfinding.

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And the role of leadership to discover.

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And articulate that vision, get the organization and ecosystem or

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value chain.

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To hopefully follow. So you're building followership. as effectively, as

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efficiently as possible.

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And it's like, okay, let's get from A to B

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and manage that change as successfully as.

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We can and making some course corrections.

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And that's worked well for most organizations and most leaders,

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especially when you have the luxury of time.

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But in this world that's literally like changing.

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A couple of feet underneath our feet and the planet

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is shifting like every week and every month and we just.

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Don't have that luxury.

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So wayfinding is a word or term that's existed in

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the English language for some time, but it's really been

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more about like airports or, you know, hyper toxic kind

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of dangerous environments. And, you know, where do you go

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when you need to know without thinking.

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About it, but wayfinding is new in terms of the

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notion of leadership.

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And, This is kind of the world that we live

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in right now, which is how do you lead when

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you're surrounded by fog? When leaders, whether you're a startup

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or a legacy company, leaders are used to being in

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town halls, being confident, having most of the answers or

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at least sounding confident when they're trying to tap dance

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around that.

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Set the vision. Take on the burden.

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Of direction and clarity.

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But that's just really, really difficult and almost impossible in

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this world that we live in right now.

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So wayfinding has really resonated with a lot of people,

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not just leaders, but the people who are part of

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these organizations.

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And it really means, like, how do you make progress

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when you're trying to figure out the destination at the

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same time? And so that's leadership. And then innovation, we

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define innovation very, very broadly.

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Of course, we include disruptive innovation as a part of

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our definition of innovation, but we also.

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Include smaller incremental things. So our definition of innovation is

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anything that's new and useful.

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So most leaders hopefully have been doing some form of

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innovation over the years, or it's like, how do they exist?

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Or how have you even made it this far? Right.

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Kind of saying it flippantly.

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But, you know, you could argue for the last 20

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years after the Internet matured, most industries, innovation was kind

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of seen as optional or a nice to have.

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And I think, you know, beginning with COVID, I think

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it was a wake up call to a lot of

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organizations who had their business model challenged. You know, how

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well do they really understand their customers? or their customer's

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customer if they're in B2B, that not.

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All growth is good long-term. And I think COVID was

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a bit of a trigger, a catalyst, as you say

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in your book. It ignited, I think, a.

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Lot of leaders to say, wow, didn't think we could

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do that, and we did, or we really don't know

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that space.

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Or that customer very, very well.

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And as we left COVID, right, we kind of skated

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right into the arrival of artificial intelligence.

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And I think, you know, that is compounding the fact

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that pretty much everyone we talk to these days is.

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Recognizing that innovation is no longer an option.

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And some organizations, you know, it's kind of crazy, at least,

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are saying things like, wow, giving.

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Our employees access to chat GPT, isn't that innovative?

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And, you know, what happens is, you know, when you

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go for some time, years, maybe decades, without innovating or

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outsourcing the ideation, let alone the execution.

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You know, like going to the gym. If you don't

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go to the gym, those.

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Muscles don't get exercised over time. And you just can't

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flip a switch and say, hey, let's be innovative. It's

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Monday morning. We need to think and act differently because

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it's a reflection of culture. and many decisions and things

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that have happened over the years. So some organizations we're

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seeing are thriving in this moment, others are struggling.

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And obviously we wanted to write a book that was

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about hope.

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I think first and foremost that, yes, it can be

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difficult to transform. Yes, it can be very, very challenging

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to reinvent yourself and say, we're this today and we

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want to be something completely different today. That could feel

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like you're stranded on a deserted island in the middle

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of the ocean while this beautiful cruise ship passes you by.

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It's like, how do we get there? So we know

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it's not easy, but it's not impossible either. So a

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big part of the reason we wrote the book is.

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It's a giant 300-page love letter to either established organizations

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or startup founders saying, To say, yeah, the world is

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getting a little crazy.

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It's changing really fast. But we've learned a lot by

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studying these leaders over years and years and years.

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Leaders who were not in the right place at the

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right time, but leaders who demonstrated in different contexts that

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they could lead.

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And the first thing that we learned was they didn't

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make it about themselves. They made it about.

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The environment and a place where people were willing and

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able to want to innovate. And that innovation is a

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social process. So, yes, it's exciting times. And honestly, it's

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a bit terrifying as well.

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Extremely well said.

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Let's let our listeners and viewers chew on what you

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just said there as we go into our first break here.

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That gives them a lot of pause for their time.

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I'm your host, Dr. Elise Cortez. We're on the air

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with Jason Wild. He's a strategic advisor and growth executive

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at Wild Innovations and Strategy Excellence, where he helps leaders

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of companies transform, innovate, and grow. We've been talking about

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the importance of innovating today and starting to talk about

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what it takes for leaders to create that environment. After

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the break, we're going to introduce their ABCs of leadership

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that will help teach you how to lead innovation in

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organizations through the ABC model. We'll be right back.

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Thank you. Dr.

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Elise Cortez is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose,

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an inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies visioneer for

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greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose-inspired leadership and meaning-infused

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cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce.

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To learn more or to invite Elise to speak to

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your organization, please visit her at EliseCortez.com. Let's talk about

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how to get your employees working on purpose. This is

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Working on Purpose with Dr. Elise Cortez. To reach our

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program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send

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an email to Elise, A-L-I-S-E, at EliseCortez.com. Now, back to

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Working on Purpose.

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Thanks for staying with us and welcome back to Working

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on Purpose. I'm your host, Dr. Elise Cortez. as I

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too am dedicated to helping create a world where organizations

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thrive because our people thrive and they're led by inspirational

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leaders that help them find and contribute their greatness. And

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we find ways to do business that betters the world.

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I keep researching and writing my own books. So one

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of my latest came out. It's called The Great Revitalization,

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How Activating Meaning and Purpose Can Radically Enliven Your Business.

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And I wrote it to help leaders understand today's very

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discerning workforce. What do they want to need from you

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to give you their best and stick around? And then

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I give you 22 best practices to equip you to

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provide it through your leadership and your culture. You can

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find my books on Amazon or my personal site, EliseCortez.com.

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If you are just now tuning in, my guest is

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Jason Wild. He's the co-author of Genius at Scale, How

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Great Leaders Drive Innovation. So I found your ABC model very,

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very helpful and easy to access. I love it when

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you create a model that we can get our arms around.

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So I would love for you to introduce the ABCs.

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And my running pal, Charles, knows I host the show.

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He's like, who's on the show tonight? I'm like, Jason Wilder,

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we're talking about the ABCs of innovation. He goes, okay,

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sounds good. I'll tune in. So what are the ABCs?

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Yeah, well, the ABCs kind of emerged, I'd say, about

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two-thirds of the way through writing the book. I mean,

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we were uncovering different insights through our research, right? A

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little bit of what I touched on before, that innovation

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is a voluntary act. You can't mandate it. Innovation is

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a social process. And really, these great leaders don't force innovation.

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There's a bit of a paradox, which is part of

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the reason why we named the firm Paradox Strategies. But

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these leaders, they really create the conditions where people choose

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to innovate and want to really innovate. And it sounds

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very simple, but in the book we sort of realize

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that there is a science and you can go from

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art to science in creating the conditions.

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And many of these leaders, and this is.

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Not going to be comprehensive, but they're really good at

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creating psychological safety at different levels and not just what

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people say, but what people actually do. And one of

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the things that surprised me a bit, especially in larger companies,

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is that many leaders over the years have said, hey,

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don't bring me problems, bring me solutions. And I kind

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of would get that at the surface level because you know,

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they don't want to complain culture. But what you want

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are people who are bringing both opportunities, problems, right, and

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solutions in the right context with the right focus that's relevant.

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And so psychological safety becomes really, really important. Rules of

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engagement matters. Um, every culture is different. And one of

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my favorite quotes about culture is culture is what happens

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when the leader leaves the room.

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Uh, right.

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And culture is what people feel like they can get

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away with when they think that no one is watching.

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And so every place has culture. Even if you think

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you don't have culture, you do. And actually, if you

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think you don't, it probably is, could be a toxic

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and negative culture. so great leaders really understand that culture

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is intangible and it's not built overnight but it becomes

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everything in terms of differentiation attracting talent and really creating

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the environment again.

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Where people are willing and able to want.

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To co-create so we started seeing patterns that there were

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different leaders who were great depending on their context and

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leaders showing up in different ways depending on where we

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were in the process versus ideation versus execution versus the

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post-modern learning.

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And we kind of started with a blank sheet of paper.

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And across these patterns, we did see different roles start

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to emerge.

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And, you know, the one that most people are very

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familiar with is, you know, the architect role. And we

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touched on this a bit.

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It tends to be the CEO or a C-level executive

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or a president or a founder owner who feels the

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real responsibility of whatever it is that you're doing is

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a business. And they literally take it personally. The architects

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in our book, we found one of the things that

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they're really good at doing in building culture is recognizing

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what their own strengths are. and the limitations of their

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own superpowers. And Pixar is an organization that we've been

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privileged to study for many, many years. And Pixar has

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this great phrase, which is, everybody's got a slice of genius.

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And so what the architects are really, really good at

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is understanding that everybody has a slice of genius and

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creating the environment, even if it's three or four levels down,

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where everybody people are able to activate that slice of

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genius and connect it into the bigger platform or purpose

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that the business or the ecosystem has. So sometimes architects

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are mislabeled because people think they're the smartest person or

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the most talented and decision maker.

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But really the greatest architects are really focused.

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On culture and recognize that the best culture is about

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leading from behind.

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So that's the architect.

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The second thing, the second role that we discovered, and

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I think it's the role of the three that the

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world has really responded very positively to.

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In a way that just surprised us.

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And I'll get into why. And that's the bridger. The

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bridger is really about building partnerships. Bridgers are great at

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curating the right solutions, translating across different ways of talking

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and functions.

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And roles and right?

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You see classic kind of chasms across every organization internally, right?

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Sales versus marketing, business versus technology, the leaders versus the middle.

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And so you have all of these different fiefdoms that

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start to emerge and the bridgers are really good at

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kind of spanning across those boundaries and those lines to

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ensure hopefully that there are no cracks that start to emerge.

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So the bridgers are great at kind of understanding the

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social intelligence of the organization. And they're kind of polygons.

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They're able to speak the language of sales when it's

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time to, you know, ensure that people understand that in

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other places. And when you look at it, some of

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the most important roles these days that have emerged, not

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00:24:09.809 --> 00:24:14.210
just in the technology industry, but many industries, forward deployed engineer,

436
00:24:14.950 --> 00:24:20.420
chief of staff, revenue ops, these are all different bridger roles.

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00:24:21.180 --> 00:24:24.279
They're trying to bring different pieces of the business and

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deliver an important outcome at scale. Now, the interesting thing is,

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00:24:30.329 --> 00:24:34.589
and I almost said funny, but it's not funny, but

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in my personal view, you could almost draw a line

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between those organizations that get it because they're investing.

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00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:43.619
In this role of bridgers and the ones that.

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Don't get it and they're either doing resource actions and layoffs,

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and they're exiting a lot of these bridgers. And you'll

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00:24:50.779 --> 00:24:54.839
never find a role or a job description that has

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00:24:54.980 --> 00:24:58.920
bridger in the title. They show up in different ways.

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But basically, look at AI and AI adoption. Whether adoption

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00:25:05.549 --> 00:25:08.089
is going to succeed or fail is largely going to

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rest on middle management.

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And middle management right now is in the middle of

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its own evolution.

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And crisis?

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AI, right?

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Middle management before was all about orchestration of the execution

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and orchestration of doing.

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But with a lot of autonomous agents, right, you don't

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need as much, you know, middle management. So we see

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a shift and a pivot of middle management towards more

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and more decision-making. So that's the role of these bridgers,

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and the bridgers are about building partnerships and ensuring that

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the ecosystem overall is healthy and focused on the core

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problem and mission that we're trying to solve.

463
00:25:49.380 --> 00:25:52.160
So bridgers, I think, in many ways, are the unsung

464
00:25:52.220 --> 00:25:53.559
heroes of innovation.

465
00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:57.319
And you could almost do an audit of many organizations,

466
00:25:57.420 --> 00:25:59.660
and the ones that don't have enough bridgers are going

467
00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:04.089
to struggle long term. And long-term now, we're measuring in

468
00:26:04.150 --> 00:26:07.069
like a couple of years, right? At least not like

469
00:26:07.109 --> 00:26:10.519
long-term of the 1980s of 10, 20 years from now.

470
00:26:11.299 --> 00:26:13.339
And the organizations who get it are going to be

471
00:26:13.480 --> 00:26:17.480
developing these bridgers and seeing them as really the next

472
00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:20.940
generation of leadership and really the headlights to the rest

473
00:26:20.980 --> 00:26:21.900
of the organization.

474
00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:25.640
And then the last C is the catalyst. I've helped

475
00:26:26.220 --> 00:26:28.740
many large organizations, but I've also helped startups.

476
00:26:29.019 --> 00:26:31.759
And one of the things that we realized is that

477
00:26:32.490 --> 00:26:35.690
And a lot of people wake up emboldened to want

478
00:26:35.710 --> 00:26:41.099
to change the world. But like catalyzing a movement is

479
00:26:41.180 --> 00:26:44.640
really an overwhelming thought. Like, how do you do that?

480
00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:48.259
And where do I start? Not everybody is Steve Jobs.

481
00:26:49.259 --> 00:26:51.750
And the good news is, is that it's not easy,

482
00:26:51.789 --> 00:26:55.970
but it's not impossible either. So we have different chapters

483
00:26:56.029 --> 00:27:00.750
of the book of catalysts who are entrepreneurs inside very

484
00:27:00.809 --> 00:27:01.970
large organizations.

485
00:27:02.809 --> 00:27:07.890
And catalysts of startups. And probably my favorite chapter.

486
00:27:07.569 --> 00:27:11.480
In the book is the book about a spinoff from

487
00:27:11.500 --> 00:27:16.380
a Japanese airline, two individual contributors, literally.

488
00:27:16.019 --> 00:27:18.980
Nobodies, no team, no budget.

489
00:27:19.819 --> 00:27:23.569
And long story short, they ignited a global avatar movement

490
00:27:24.349 --> 00:27:29.059
inspired by one of their grandmothers who wanted to be

491
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:32.519
more mobile, but would never leave her village in rural

492
00:27:32.539 --> 00:27:33.619
Japan ever again.

493
00:27:34.660 --> 00:27:36.650
So it started with a question of how do you,

494
00:27:37.190 --> 00:27:39.589
why can't we teleport as humans?

495
00:27:39.650 --> 00:27:42.930
And they realized that the technology is 20 to 25

496
00:27:42.930 --> 00:27:46.170
years away, but it became, what about transporting your five

497
00:27:46.190 --> 00:27:50.029
or six senses as a human? And they ignited a

498
00:27:50.049 --> 00:27:54.430
global movement that now they look back and say, wow,

499
00:27:57.079 --> 00:28:02.230
their story. So you can catalyze movements and change the world,

500
00:28:02.349 --> 00:28:05.170
but you have to start small with a very, a.

501
00:28:05.150 --> 00:28:08.109
Very clear focus. And ultimately you have to figure out

502
00:28:08.170 --> 00:28:09.329
how you leverage yourself.

503
00:28:10.309 --> 00:28:13.930
It's the antithesis of founders mode, which is trying to

504
00:28:13.970 --> 00:28:18.119
be everywhere and do everything and micromanagement on steroids, which

505
00:28:18.930 --> 00:28:20.279
is a path to burnout.

506
00:28:20.420 --> 00:28:23.400
And it's sinister. Who wants to work in a place

507
00:28:23.480 --> 00:28:24.019
like that?

508
00:28:24.839 --> 00:28:28.880
So for us, It's the antithesis of true founder's mode,

509
00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:32.470
which is figuring out the right way to leverage yourself

510
00:28:33.289 --> 00:28:35.710
and really ignite a global movement.

511
00:28:35.349 --> 00:28:40.069
That gets other people excited to ride that wave with you.

512
00:28:40.089 --> 00:28:43.009
Okay, now that you've introduced the ABCs, the architects, the bridgers,

513
00:28:43.059 --> 00:28:45.680
and the catalysts, now if you could, Jason, situate in

514
00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:47.559
a concentric circle where each belongs.

515
00:28:49.829 --> 00:28:52.930
Yeah, if I had my whiteboard here, let me try

516
00:28:52.950 --> 00:28:53.910
to do it verbally.

517
00:28:53.930 --> 00:28:54.599
We'll imagine it.

518
00:28:54.609 --> 00:28:55.950
We're definitely interconnected.

519
00:28:56.089 --> 00:28:59.130
And I think, you know, in Linda's last book, you know,

520
00:28:59.190 --> 00:29:01.309
she started to uncover the importance of a lot of

521
00:29:01.329 --> 00:29:04.089
the architect role, but it was really focused on inside

522
00:29:04.109 --> 00:29:05.609
of the organization or the company.

523
00:29:06.349 --> 00:29:09.319
And the realization was that's not enough, right? You also

524
00:29:09.359 --> 00:29:09.589
have to.

525
00:29:09.579 --> 00:29:14.640
Get your ecosystem, your key collaborators, your partners also on board, right?

526
00:29:15.140 --> 00:29:18.180
And if you're not completely aligned, you can't move at

527
00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:21.869
the same pace, right? right, an ambition you have. So

528
00:29:21.890 --> 00:29:25.140
that was a big part of learning around, you know,

529
00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:25.779
the architect.

530
00:29:25.859 --> 00:29:28.720
I think the other parts that we started to learn

531
00:29:28.740 --> 00:29:33.319
that were really interesting around Bridger and Catalyst is that,

532
00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:38.930
you know, Bridgers are constantly navigating in environments of low trust.

533
00:29:39.549 --> 00:29:41.799
And how do you build trust in these lower trust

534
00:29:41.859 --> 00:29:45.319
environments and so i think especially when you think of

535
00:29:45.380 --> 00:29:50.289
like regulated industries like health care or banking and compliance

536
00:29:51.089 --> 00:29:53.230
and so a lot of it becomes how do you

537
00:29:53.549 --> 00:29:57.710
build like the social kind of interactions and So if

538
00:29:57.829 --> 00:29:59.609
we were to whiteboard this a bit.

539
00:29:59.650 --> 00:30:01.690
The architect is really the foundation.

540
00:30:02.329 --> 00:30:05.539
If people are not willing to enable, it's like don't

541
00:30:05.619 --> 00:30:09.779
even go past go. It's not even worth thinking about

542
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:10.480
level two.

543
00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:15.240
That is the foundation. And having clear rules of engagement

544
00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:20.599
so that people, as I said... feel that there's psychological safety.

545
00:30:21.059 --> 00:30:24.440
Not any idea is a good idea, but we live

546
00:30:24.460 --> 00:30:26.680
in a world where 14 year olds are inventing billion

547
00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:29.140
dollar businesses. We don't know where the greatest ideas are

548
00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:32.769
going to come from. So that's the role of the architect.

549
00:30:33.329 --> 00:30:38.150
For the bridger, it would really be about these partnerships, right?

550
00:30:38.269 --> 00:30:41.549
If the architect is about creating the conditions where ideas

551
00:30:42.390 --> 00:30:46.180
can start to form, You and I both know, Elise,

552
00:30:46.220 --> 00:30:48.119
in the work that we've done over the years, that

553
00:30:48.339 --> 00:30:49.940
innovation is not an idea problem.

554
00:30:49.960 --> 00:30:52.900
It's an execution problem.

555
00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:57.829
And it's an execution and implementation challenge across different levels.

556
00:30:59.309 --> 00:31:02.490
But the least important one is really technology. And this

557
00:31:02.529 --> 00:31:05.849
is coming from somebody who worked for 25 years at Microsoft, Salesforce,

558
00:31:05.890 --> 00:31:06.529
and IBM.

559
00:31:07.069 --> 00:31:09.619
If there's anything you take away from this conversation, it's

560
00:31:09.650 --> 00:31:15.410
not about technology. It's that Changing people's behaviors is arguably

561
00:31:15.430 --> 00:31:18.309
the greatest challenge we have on this planet. So the

562
00:31:18.349 --> 00:31:24.000
Bridgers really focus on the periphery of where the architect

563
00:31:24.039 --> 00:31:31.319
can always be and is constantly looking and trying.

564
00:31:31.079 --> 00:31:35.480
To assess the health of all of these micro, small.

565
00:31:35.609 --> 00:31:41.480
Social relationships that And therefore, collectively, are we levering and

566
00:31:41.740 --> 00:31:45.470
leveraging those as well as we can based back on

567
00:31:45.490 --> 00:31:46.049
the mission.

568
00:31:46.069 --> 00:31:48.210
The purpose, and the platform that we're trying to create?

569
00:31:48.849 --> 00:31:52.890
And then you need catalysts who are out there who.

570
00:31:52.849 --> 00:31:57.650
Are trying to ignite new ideas way beyond the core

571
00:31:57.690 --> 00:32:03.480
of what you're trying to do and bring other people, non-traditional,

572
00:32:03.900 --> 00:32:10.809
not counterintuitive ideas, participants, collaborators, problem solvers in to do this.

573
00:32:11.609 --> 00:32:14.779
And I think that's where the ABCs come together, and

574
00:32:14.819 --> 00:32:16.640
that's where it becomes something that.

575
00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:17.980
Endures over time.

576
00:32:18.660 --> 00:32:22.200
And it's important that the architect is continuously monitoring that

577
00:32:22.500 --> 00:32:26.589
environment to make sure that you're doing the right things,

578
00:32:26.650 --> 00:32:31.650
that people do have true psychological safety, that you're adapting

579
00:32:31.690 --> 00:32:36.450
the right rules of engagement, But it is an interconnected system.

580
00:32:36.589 --> 00:32:39.930
And I think the part that we realized is that

581
00:32:40.299 --> 00:32:44.220
you're not constantly catalyzing and you're not bridging around where

582
00:32:44.259 --> 00:32:48.799
those boundaries and those ideas can fall down because when

583
00:32:48.819 --> 00:32:51.539
people are under pressure, what do they do? They default

584
00:32:51.559 --> 00:32:54.500
to their basic training and what they know, right? And

585
00:32:54.579 --> 00:32:58.190
not the new thing. And even though there can be

586
00:32:58.329 --> 00:32:59.410
more risk.

587
00:32:59.210 --> 00:33:01.650
In defaulting to what you know in the past.

588
00:33:02.250 --> 00:33:05.759
So a big part of it is creating the social

589
00:33:05.819 --> 00:33:08.400
intelligence and the contextual intelligence.

590
00:33:09.180 --> 00:33:10.819
But in a much more intentional way.

591
00:33:11.460 --> 00:33:13.799
And these three different roles show up in different ways

592
00:33:14.359 --> 00:33:18.509
so that the collective is about creating outcomes that matter.

593
00:33:19.369 --> 00:33:21.049
And focusing more on the how.

594
00:33:21.750 --> 00:33:24.130
And I think that's the big brain turn is too

595
00:33:24.150 --> 00:33:28.579
many people are Get drunk on innovation being the what.

596
00:33:28.660 --> 00:33:31.640
What's the next killer app? What's the big idea? What's

597
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:34.059
the thing that's going to make me rich? And the

598
00:33:34.099 --> 00:33:37.160
reality is if you focus on the how, the what

599
00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:40.809
becomes the predictable outcome of that. And the ABCs in

600
00:33:40.829 --> 00:33:44.930
different roles show up in different ways individually and collectively

601
00:33:44.950 --> 00:33:45.549
to make that happen.

602
00:33:47.630 --> 00:33:48.150
Powerful.

603
00:33:48.269 --> 00:33:51.670
Very powerful, Jason. This is just exactly the conversation I

604
00:33:51.690 --> 00:33:53.980
was hoping to have with you. Let's grab our next

605
00:33:54.019 --> 00:33:56.099
break here. I'm Dr. Elise Cortez. We're on the air

606
00:33:56.119 --> 00:33:59.640
with Jason Wild. He's a strategic advisor and growth executive

607
00:33:59.660 --> 00:34:02.849
at Wild Innovations and Strategy Excellence, where he helps leaders

608
00:34:02.890 --> 00:34:06.450
of companies transform, innovate, and grow. We've been talking now

609
00:34:06.509 --> 00:34:09.449
about the ABC model and how those different roles work together.

610
00:34:09.909 --> 00:34:12.409
After the break, we're going to treat you to getting

611
00:34:12.449 --> 00:34:14.590
to meet several of the leaders they showcase in the

612
00:34:14.630 --> 00:34:16.809
book and what they did in terms of their innovation efforts.

613
00:34:17.030 --> 00:34:33.159
We'll be right back. Thank you. Dr.

614
00:34:33.219 --> 00:34:37.000
Elise Cortez is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose,

615
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:41.019
an inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies visioneer for

616
00:34:41.079 --> 00:34:45.619
greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose-inspired leadership and meaning-infused

617
00:34:45.659 --> 00:34:49.780
cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce.

618
00:34:50.179 --> 00:34:52.320
To learn more or to invite Elise to speak to

619
00:34:52.360 --> 00:34:57.059
your organization, please visit her at EliseCortez.com. Let's talk about

620
00:34:57.099 --> 00:35:05.389
how to get your employees working on purpose. This is

621
00:35:05.449 --> 00:35:08.730
Working on Purpose with Dr. Elise Cortez. To reach our

622
00:35:08.769 --> 00:35:11.869
program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send

623
00:35:11.909 --> 00:35:18.239
an email to Elise, A-L-I-S-E, at EliseCortez.com. Now, back to

624
00:35:18.320 --> 00:35:19.420
Working on Purpose.

625
00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:26.440
Thanks for staying with us and welcome back to Working

626
00:35:26.500 --> 00:35:29.070
on Purpose. I'm your host, Dr. Elise Cortez. If you

627
00:35:29.110 --> 00:35:31.230
are just now joining us, my guest is Jason Wild.

628
00:35:31.289 --> 00:35:35.150
He's co-author of Genius at Scale.com. How Great Leaders Drive Innovation.

629
00:35:36.130 --> 00:35:39.150
I absolutely jammed on all the great stories that you

630
00:35:39.190 --> 00:35:41.389
told in your book about these various leaders, what they

631
00:35:41.409 --> 00:35:43.710
were up against, what they were trying to achieve, and

632
00:35:43.769 --> 00:35:47.929
how they fell in their roles of whether an architect,

633
00:35:47.949 --> 00:35:50.409
a bridger, or a catalyst. So I want to get

634
00:35:50.469 --> 00:35:52.679
through as many of them as we can and want

635
00:35:52.699 --> 00:35:56.539
to make sure that we showcase each of those three roles, architect, bridger,

636
00:35:56.579 --> 00:36:00.150
and catalyst. So if we can first start with the

637
00:36:00.610 --> 00:36:02.110
MasterCard story, A.J.

638
00:36:02.170 --> 00:36:02.570
Banga.

639
00:36:03.380 --> 00:36:06.519
Can you share a bit about what he was up against,

640
00:36:06.559 --> 00:36:09.659
what he was trying to do, and his general approach,

641
00:36:09.820 --> 00:36:11.539
and which of those roles he really leaned on?

642
00:36:12.539 --> 00:36:16.059
Yeah, for sure. So A.J. is just, he's so inspiring.

643
00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:18.679
And I think the thing that's amazing is when we

644
00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:23.099
first started studying him, he was obviously CEO of MasterCard

645
00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:25.719
at the time. I mean, like all of the stories

646
00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:31.289
in our book, multi-year longitudinal research. And you may not

647
00:36:31.469 --> 00:36:33.750
know this, but today, LJ is the president of the

648
00:36:33.769 --> 00:36:34.289
World Bank.

649
00:36:35.170 --> 00:36:38.159
So we felt after he left MasterCard, he was appointed

650
00:36:38.179 --> 00:36:38.840
by the White House.

651
00:36:39.639 --> 00:36:43.800
To take these mindsets and behaviors, this playbook, if you will,

652
00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:47.460
of how you create genius at scale, you know, our language,

653
00:36:48.199 --> 00:36:50.590
from the world of banking and the unbanked, which was

654
00:36:50.719 --> 00:36:53.510
what he was focused on in MasterCard, to now solving

655
00:36:53.550 --> 00:36:55.889
things like poverty and world hunger.

656
00:36:56.030 --> 00:36:58.389
So I think we're all cheering him on.

657
00:36:59.050 --> 00:37:04.090
And obviously seeing that was an incredible vindication of what

658
00:37:04.110 --> 00:37:06.530
we were writing about in terms of the power of it.

659
00:37:06.539 --> 00:37:06.599
So.

660
00:37:07.710 --> 00:37:10.070
I would say, you know, what I would say is

661
00:37:10.110 --> 00:37:12.230
because there's so much to be said, there's actually two

662
00:37:12.269 --> 00:37:14.929
chapters of the book in the book on MasterCard.

663
00:37:15.469 --> 00:37:16.440
When he joined, you.

664
00:37:16.409 --> 00:37:19.449
Know, he had spent pretty much his entire career in

665
00:37:19.510 --> 00:37:23.400
banking in the in the industry. And one of the

666
00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:26.460
things that they did when he was a new CEO

667
00:37:26.480 --> 00:37:31.719
of MasterCard way back in 2011 was employee survey.

668
00:37:31.739 --> 00:37:32.780
Right.

669
00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:36.030
You know, ranking a bunch of things, questionnaire questions. Survey

670
00:37:36.050 --> 00:37:38.849
comes back and Ajay told us.

671
00:37:38.829 --> 00:37:42.590
That he almost quit when he saw that innovation was

672
00:37:42.670 --> 00:37:49.500
ranked 26 of 27 attributes important to the future of MasterCard.

673
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:52.800
I mean, that was shocking to him. It's like, how

674
00:37:52.840 --> 00:37:56.019
is that even possible? Now, as he pulled on that

675
00:37:56.780 --> 00:37:59.059
string and he understood more and more, I mean, it

676
00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:00.739
kind of started to make sense to him.

677
00:38:01.460 --> 00:38:03.860
And that was because MasterCard at that time was really

678
00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:07.489
focused on being a credit card services company.

679
00:38:08.769 --> 00:38:12.210
In my language, they were in a competitive back.

680
00:38:12.010 --> 00:38:17.550
Alley knife fight with known competitors, and it was hyper-competitive.

681
00:38:18.269 --> 00:38:20.170
So, you know, the perception of.

682
00:38:20.110 --> 00:38:23.630
Employees in the workforce was innovation, it's not important.

683
00:38:24.670 --> 00:38:28.449
But Ajay had bigger ideas, and obviously he was hired to,

684
00:38:28.469 --> 00:38:31.900
you know, transform MasterCard and start with the culture. So

685
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:37.289
long story short, when he left, The growth of MasterCard

686
00:38:37.349 --> 00:38:38.469
was incredible.

687
00:38:38.489 --> 00:38:42.550
They left their core competitors, American Express and Visa, in

688
00:38:42.570 --> 00:38:43.030
the dust.

689
00:38:44.449 --> 00:38:51.030
The valuation was more than 16x as the S &

690
00:38:50.989 --> 00:38:52.190
P 500 in the same amount of time.

691
00:38:52.210 --> 00:38:55.610
And hopefully people will read the book and I won't

692
00:38:55.659 --> 00:38:58.880
do justice to what he did. But as an architect,

693
00:38:58.909 --> 00:39:00.920
he basically got the entire organization.

694
00:39:01.469 --> 00:39:05.219
To get excited about innovating, innovation and innovating again.

695
00:39:05.960 --> 00:39:10.340
And obviously it took several years to get there. And

696
00:39:10.460 --> 00:39:13.460
on the back of that culture change and the appreciation

697
00:39:13.500 --> 00:39:18.139
of innovation, right, are these great results. And one of

698
00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:21.550
the things that Ajay realized was as many ideas as

699
00:39:21.590 --> 00:39:24.269
he had, he knew that he couldn't do it alone.

700
00:39:24.969 --> 00:39:26.510
And that was the other reason that we wrote a

701
00:39:26.550 --> 00:39:27.389
second chapter.

702
00:39:27.409 --> 00:39:31.420
He brought in someone from the outside. an insider as

703
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:34.900
well and the two of them were bridgers and that's

704
00:39:34.940 --> 00:39:36.860
why it was important for us to tell the story

705
00:39:36.940 --> 00:39:40.400
because very easily we could have told the story of

706
00:39:40.420 --> 00:39:44.340
Ajay Banga through a different lens almost seeming like he's

707
00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:48.429
Steven Spielberg and the one man genius and doing all

708
00:39:48.489 --> 00:39:52.920
these things and The man is a genius, but he's

709
00:39:52.940 --> 00:39:55.719
the first to realize that they wouldn't have accomplished anything

710
00:39:55.780 --> 00:39:58.199
without him realizing that he needed a team.

711
00:39:58.840 --> 00:40:01.090
And this was collective genius, right? It worked.

712
00:40:01.230 --> 00:40:05.210
So Ajay did that, and he realized that innovation is

713
00:40:05.250 --> 00:40:10.289
not this aha moment, that it was about the genius

714
00:40:10.349 --> 00:40:14.480
of tapping into the entire organization, including the people who

715
00:40:14.539 --> 00:40:16.440
are very, very far from headquarters.

716
00:40:17.019 --> 00:40:19.840
So he did many, many things. But I think ultimately

717
00:40:19.860 --> 00:40:22.400
what I love about Ajay is he's great at reframing.

718
00:40:23.219 --> 00:40:25.559
And one of the things that I'll give as a gift.

719
00:40:25.260 --> 00:40:28.590
To your community and the people who are listening, architects

720
00:40:28.610 --> 00:40:32.690
are really good at challenging orthodoxies and giving the permission

721
00:40:32.750 --> 00:40:36.050
for people to feel empowered to challenge orthodoxies.

722
00:40:36.070 --> 00:40:37.929
And of course, we're not talking about religion.

723
00:40:38.489 --> 00:40:41.900
We're talking about norms and standards that at some point

724
00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:43.119
in the past, somebody made.

725
00:40:43.000 --> 00:40:46.079
A decision And it's just the way it is, and

726
00:40:46.119 --> 00:40:47.280
no one has challenged it.

727
00:40:48.019 --> 00:40:51.019
So the question behind that is, what would you never

728
00:40:51.099 --> 00:40:55.659
say about blank? What would you say about MasterCard's products?

729
00:40:56.260 --> 00:40:59.230
What would you never say about how MasterCard collaborates?

730
00:40:59.989 --> 00:41:04.010
And behind those, you start to uncover kind of root causes.

731
00:41:04.769 --> 00:41:07.429
And like I said, decisions that somebody.

732
00:41:07.110 --> 00:41:11.269
Made some point in the past that maybe made sense then,

733
00:41:11.309 --> 00:41:11.650
and no.

734
00:41:11.590 --> 00:41:12.550
One has challenged that.

735
00:41:13.769 --> 00:41:16.949
So architects are really good at reframing the opportunity and

736
00:41:16.969 --> 00:41:21.210
empowering people to feel like they can challenge the status quo.

737
00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:25.519
And not just challenge it with ideas, but with actions

738
00:41:25.619 --> 00:41:26.039
as well.

739
00:41:26.679 --> 00:41:29.539
So there's a lot around the story, and.

740
00:41:29.500 --> 00:41:31.599
Obviously it's really hard to give it justice in a

741
00:41:31.619 --> 00:41:32.280
couple of minutes.

742
00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:35.699
But there's a reason why we started with MasterCard as

743
00:41:35.739 --> 00:41:37.500
the first chapter of the.

744
00:41:37.460 --> 00:41:39.199
Book, because I think it really represents.

745
00:41:40.139 --> 00:41:44.349
true end-to-end transformation and becoming a culture of innovation, where

746
00:41:44.409 --> 00:41:48.469
innovation is not just some thing that pops up once

747
00:41:48.510 --> 00:41:51.250
in a while or the job of the research and

748
00:41:51.289 --> 00:41:55.070
development team or the really smart people, but it's a system.

749
00:41:55.719 --> 00:42:00.960
And MasterCard created a system. And that's you can buy talent, right?

750
00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:03.440
You can try to copy products and services, but it's.

751
00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:09.630
Impossible to try to poach and import a culture of innovation. Mm-hmm.

752
00:42:11.019 --> 00:42:13.920
So inspiring, so elevating. So we don't have a whole

753
00:42:13.940 --> 00:42:16.900
lot of time left, so probably for one more share,

754
00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:19.199
one more showcase. And I don't know if you want

755
00:42:19.219 --> 00:42:20.699
to talk about Pfizer, if you want to talk about

756
00:42:20.719 --> 00:42:22.559
Procter & Gamble, who would you like to talk about

757
00:42:22.579 --> 00:42:22.980
to share?

758
00:42:23.960 --> 00:42:27.900
Yeah, why don't we talk about Bridger and Procter & Gamble.

759
00:42:28.340 --> 00:42:31.780
Okay. And, you know, the reason is because, you know, you.

760
00:42:31.739 --> 00:42:35.179
Look at Procter & Gamble, it's arguably the most successful

761
00:42:35.739 --> 00:42:40.550
consumer brand in history. and Kathy Fish, who is the

762
00:42:40.630 --> 00:42:42.650
protagonist in the chapter of the book, at the time

763
00:42:42.670 --> 00:42:43.590
was the chief.

764
00:42:44.050 --> 00:42:46.179
Innovation officer, R & D officer.

765
00:42:46.199 --> 00:42:49.980
And she and the leadership team of Procter & Gamble in.

766
00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:52.820
That moment realized that, in their words.

767
00:42:53.059 --> 00:42:56.860
P & G needed to innovate in how they innovate.

768
00:42:57.949 --> 00:43:00.409
So, I mean, just let those words kind of sink in.

769
00:43:00.949 --> 00:43:02.070
Procter & Gamble.

770
00:43:02.309 --> 00:43:06.730
A talent destination is, attracting the best of the best,

771
00:43:06.809 --> 00:43:10.079
and has been for years, their own realization.

772
00:43:10.110 --> 00:43:12.460
Hey, we need to innovate in how we innovate.

773
00:43:13.219 --> 00:43:20.219
So Cathy introduced lean innovation into Procter & Gamble, not

774
00:43:20.260 --> 00:43:24.039
as a mandate, but as an experiment. The organization that

775
00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:29.639
invented StageGates came to the humble realization that maybe they

776
00:43:29.699 --> 00:43:33.480
needed to evolve and do it in a non-incremental way.

777
00:43:35.019 --> 00:43:36.340
And that's what the story is about.

778
00:43:37.460 --> 00:43:40.800
Coming up with a common language. Language is very, very important.

779
00:43:41.460 --> 00:43:43.840
I think that's one of the things that I've realized

780
00:43:44.380 --> 00:43:48.880
as I've traveled the world. I speak my English, but

781
00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:50.139
sometimes I speak.

782
00:43:49.940 --> 00:43:54.420
Other people's English. Create a common language. It's very, very important.

783
00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:57.800
The second thing is if P & G can be humble,

784
00:43:57.820 --> 00:44:00.099
if P & G can look in the mirror and

785
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:03.429
say it's not good enough, then I think it's okay

786
00:44:03.469 --> 00:44:06.289
for whatever organization you're leading as well to.

787
00:44:06.289 --> 00:44:08.949
Say, hey, maybe it was good enough at that point,

788
00:44:09.070 --> 00:44:14.429
but let's challenge ourselves because if it's not great, then.

789
00:44:14.110 --> 00:44:15.630
It probably sucks.

790
00:44:16.530 --> 00:44:18.300
And I think the other thing that Procter & Gamble

791
00:44:18.340 --> 00:44:23.219
did really, really well was they would make decisions based

792
00:44:23.239 --> 00:44:27.380
on left-brained thinking, right? The legacy of Procter & Gamble.

793
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:29.780
People make decisions based on.

794
00:44:29.739 --> 00:44:32.739
A better tide, a better downing, Right?

795
00:44:33.440 --> 00:44:33.780
No.

796
00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:37.059
They even realized that we as humans make decisions more

797
00:44:37.099 --> 00:44:41.719
on emotion than reason. So how do you actually instrument

798
00:44:41.780 --> 00:44:43.880
that in a decision-making process?

799
00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:46.639
Not easy, but they did it.

800
00:44:46.860 --> 00:44:49.219
So part of the reason why I love the P

801
00:44:49.219 --> 00:44:52.980
& G story, and it's also about bridging and becoming

802
00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:55.760
the best problem-solving organization.

803
00:44:55.179 --> 00:44:55.780
In the world.

804
00:44:56.619 --> 00:44:59.260
And I think with the arrival of AI, who knows

805
00:44:59.300 --> 00:45:02.389
what problems we'll have. But we'll have lots of problems.

806
00:45:02.469 --> 00:45:05.070
So P & G is a great inspiration. Be a

807
00:45:05.090 --> 00:45:05.989
great problem solver.

808
00:45:08.179 --> 00:45:11.900
Well, you know, there's so much. Listeners and viewers, pick

809
00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:13.980
up the book. There are so many examples in here

810
00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:15.960
that are going to inspire you, that are going to

811
00:45:15.980 --> 00:45:17.940
make you see that there's so much more room for

812
00:45:17.980 --> 00:45:20.320
you to innovate in your own organization and within your

813
00:45:20.360 --> 00:45:22.590
own immediate team. So I really want you to just

814
00:45:22.619 --> 00:45:24.230
pick up the book. It's well worth it. I love

815
00:45:24.250 --> 00:45:25.869
that you called it a love letter, Jason. I think

816
00:45:25.889 --> 00:45:29.320
that's just spot on. I don't know if you know this,

817
00:45:29.340 --> 00:45:31.539
but this show is listened to by people around the globe.

818
00:45:31.699 --> 00:45:34.760
And they tend to tune in for several different reasons.

819
00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:36.559
They tune in because they want to become better leaders.

820
00:45:37.000 --> 00:45:38.320
They tune in because they want to be able to

821
00:45:38.340 --> 00:45:41.940
create these better workplaces where we're out to create a

822
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:45.960
destination workplace. They tune in because they want to understand

823
00:45:45.980 --> 00:45:48.679
the world of work better for themselves as well. What

824
00:45:48.699 --> 00:45:49.619
would you like to leave them with?

825
00:45:50.940 --> 00:45:51.179
Wow.

826
00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:54.860
Well, I've been blessed. I've led projects in 40 countries.

827
00:45:56.159 --> 00:45:59.750
The power of asking good questions. My favorite three questions.

828
00:45:59.869 --> 00:46:04.190
Who is the customer? What are you really selling? And

829
00:46:04.469 --> 00:46:05.269
how are they buying?

830
00:46:05.929 --> 00:46:10.730
Just pick on that second question. What are you really selling? Amazon.com. Yeah,

831
00:46:10.809 --> 00:46:14.210
they're selling millions of SKUs of products, but they're really

832
00:46:14.250 --> 00:46:15.750
selling this convenience. Yes.

833
00:46:15.929 --> 00:46:19.670
Automating warehouses and looking at robots.

834
00:46:20.489 --> 00:46:23.309
It's not about cost. That's part of it. It's about

835
00:46:23.349 --> 00:46:25.179
fulfilling the promise of convenience.

836
00:46:25.860 --> 00:46:29.239
So ask yourself, what are you really degree do you

837
00:46:29.260 --> 00:46:31.219
fulfill that promise consistently every day.

838
00:46:31.079 --> 00:46:36.269
Hmm That is a powerful way to close this conversation, Jason.

839
00:46:36.429 --> 00:46:38.630
I really appreciated that I reached out to you on

840
00:46:38.650 --> 00:46:40.329
LinkedIn because you were a part, I think I told

841
00:46:40.349 --> 00:46:42.650
you that your book was selected for this book review

842
00:46:42.690 --> 00:46:44.730
that I tend to join sometimes.

843
00:46:44.449 --> 00:46:46.210
Here in Dallas. And I was like, I want that book.

844
00:46:46.590 --> 00:46:48.579
And I want to invite somebody from that book to

845
00:46:48.619 --> 00:46:50.980
come on the show. And that was you. So thank

846
00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:54.519
you for being recruitable and for making sure that we

847
00:46:54.539 --> 00:46:56.780
can make this date work. I really learned a ton

848
00:46:56.820 --> 00:46:59.539
from you and your co-authors. And it's incredibly inspiring and

849
00:46:59.559 --> 00:47:01.679
did a lot for what we're also working on here

850
00:47:01.699 --> 00:47:02.260
at Custom House.

851
00:47:03.510 --> 00:47:06.929
Well, thank you, Elise. I enjoyed the conversation. And keep

852
00:47:06.969 --> 00:47:09.889
doing what you're doing. The world needs more of it.

853
00:47:09.909 --> 00:47:12.940
I 100% agree. Listeners and viewers, you are going to

854
00:47:12.980 --> 00:47:15.619
want to learn more about Jason Wild, his book, Genius

855
00:47:15.699 --> 00:47:17.699
at Scale, and the work that he does helping leaders

856
00:47:17.739 --> 00:47:19.300
of companies transform, innovate.

857
00:47:19.340 --> 00:47:19.760
And grow.

858
00:47:20.260 --> 00:47:22.500
You can visit a couple different websites to check in

859
00:47:22.539 --> 00:47:24.199
with him or to connect with him. One is the

860
00:47:24.219 --> 00:47:29.889
book's website, which is geniusatscale.com, the name of the book, geniusatscale.com.

861
00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:34.719
Another way to check into him is their other consulting website,

862
00:47:34.739 --> 00:47:40.949
which is ParadoxStrategies.com. ParadoxStrategies.com. Last week, if you missed the

863
00:47:40.989 --> 00:47:43.309
live show, you can always catch it via recorded podcast.

864
00:47:43.329 --> 00:47:45.769
We were on air with Tenille Miller, this time talking

865
00:47:45.809 --> 00:47:49.050
about her book, Flourishing From Within, reclaiming who you came

866
00:47:49.110 --> 00:47:52.110
to be in the life that's actually yours. Among many

867
00:47:52.150 --> 00:47:55.309
other things we talked about, she gave us the framing

868
00:47:55.349 --> 00:48:00.099
of three soul hungers, and they are becoming, belonging, and beyond.

869
00:48:00.750 --> 00:48:03.210
So we dove into each of these three throughout the conversation.

870
00:48:03.230 --> 00:48:06.920
Where becoming is the hunger to feel alive in your

871
00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:10.079
own experience, express your authentic nature, and grow into your

872
00:48:10.119 --> 00:48:14.820
full potential. Belonging is the hunger to connect deeply, contribute meaningfully,

873
00:48:14.920 --> 00:48:17.769
and feel that you matter. And beyond is the hunger

874
00:48:17.829 --> 00:48:22.489
to touch something larger than yourself, to experience awe, transcendence, mystery,

875
00:48:22.809 --> 00:48:26.389
the sacred, the great belonging of life itself. And, of course,

876
00:48:26.429 --> 00:48:29.090
we talked about how leaders can create cultures that satisfy

877
00:48:29.139 --> 00:48:31.539
these hungers. It was a beautiful conversation. You've got to

878
00:48:31.579 --> 00:48:34.500
catch that one. Next week, we'll be on air with

879
00:48:34.539 --> 00:48:37.860
Carson Kelly. He's the founder of Compassion 2.0 and Flourishingly,

880
00:48:38.340 --> 00:48:41.760
talking about the neurobiology of human design and designing the

881
00:48:41.780 --> 00:48:44.639
conditions for human flourishing measured by the ROI of care.

882
00:48:45.380 --> 00:48:45.780
See you then.

883
00:48:45.860 --> 00:48:48.659
Let's continue leaning into discovering how to elevate your operating

884
00:48:48.699 --> 00:48:51.880
system as a leader and create destination workplaces where legendary

885
00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:54.199
business takes place. Let's work on purpose.

886
00:48:57.360 --> 00:48:59.989
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to

887
00:49:00.030 --> 00:49:03.670
tune into Working on Purpose, featuring your host, Dr. Elise Cortez,

888
00:49:03.849 --> 00:49:07.610
each week on W4CY. Together, we'll create a world where

889
00:49:07.650 --> 00:49:12.539
business operates conscientiously, leadership inspires in passion performance, and employees

890
00:49:12.599 --> 00:49:15.139
are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning and purpose

891
00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:15.719
they crave.

892
00:49:16.199 --> 00:49:18.440
See you there. Let's work on purpose.