The Life You Didn’t Choose: A Reckoning with Who You’ve Become

0:00 The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are solely those of the host and their guests and not those of W4CY Radio, its employees or affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability explicit or implied shall be extended to W4CY Radio or its employees or affiliates. Any questions or comments should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing W4CY Radio. What's working on purpose anyway? Each week, we ponder the answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their highest potential. Business can be such a force for good in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we all want, working on purpose. Now, here's your host, Dr.

0:58 Elise Cortez. Welcome back to the Working on Purpose program, which has been brought to you with passion and pride since February of 2015. Thanks for tuning in this week. Great to have you. I'm your host, Dr. Elise Cortez. Most leaders are sitting on untapped human energy, and I help them unlock it. I'm an organizational psychologist, logotherapist, workforce advisor, and the founder of the Gusto Now movement. But the title I live by every day is much simpler. I traffic in energy, not the surface level motivation or another engagement initiative, but the deeper force, what I call Gusto, the life force for performance that drives commitment, perseverance, and genuine ownership of a shared mission in the clients we serve. You can learn more about us and how we can work together at gusto-now.com or visit my personal website, elisecortez.com. Getting into today's program, we have back with us today, Toniel Miller.

1:48 She's an organizational psychologist, transformational leader, and former Big Four consultant who has spent nearly two decades proving that people stuff and business results were never mutually exclusive. Her career lives at the intersection of technology, strategy, and human behavior, leading enterprise-wide transformations for Fortune 500s, top firms, and high-growth startups based on the thesis that high performance isn't accidental. Today, we're talking about her newest book, Flourishing From Within, Reclaiming Who You Came to Be in a Life That's Actually Yours. We'll be talking about how to reclaim your inner authority, reconnect with your authentic self, and redefine success in an age of constant disruption. She joins us today from Minnesota, but home base is Florida. Tennille, welcome back to Working on Purpose.

2:31 Thanks for having me back. It's so great to have you. You know, my listeners and viewers don't know this, but Tennille and I are sisters from another, a different mother. That's what we've determined. We're so aligned, and I so appreciate and love your work. And this latest book really spoke to me as well. And all of what you wrote about yourself as well and shared was tremendous. So thank you for bringing it to the world. And I don't know how you did it and everything else you're doing, but thank you. Thank you for enjoying it. I appreciate that. Absolutely. Absolutely. And to situate this conversation for our listeners and viewers, when you were on last time, we talked about your other book, The Flourishing Effect, which of course is a playbook for creating the conditions for engagement and high performance. But this new book, Flourishing From Within, of course, the focus is inward. And you've written it to guide readers to reclaim their inner authority, reconnect with their authentic selves, and redefine success. So where did this book come from, and why did you feel compelled to write it?

3:29 Yeah, well, I mean, I think it's interesting because obviously this occurred to me, but it's not new. And I think it's really occurring to a lot of people right now. And we'll talk a little bit about why that is in the book actually quite a bit. So for me, it's just, I kept seeing in my work with companies, just like the work that you do as well, who are you working with? Yes, you're changing systems, but you're working with people on the individual level. And so that means leaders, of course, as well as employees. And I just kept seeing that, at least in today's world, So few leaders are doing that inner work and people in general, I think, but especially leaders. And I focus on leaders because you and I both know that if the leaders aren't doing the inner work, then the rest of it is just off the table. And so I just kept seeing that over.

4:11 And over and over again. And again, throughout my career, seeing people, meeting people and networking, all those things. And it's just, you keep seeing the same stories and it's so sad. And I guess I wanted to take a stab at it and say, Hey, I think I might have some ideas around this. just based on my own personal experience, all the research that I do and, you know, all the different case studies and things like that. You know, I so appreciate that, Tenille. And just last night here in Dallas, I was invited to speak to a group of executive people who have all been like C-levels or they had their own business and sold it and exited or whatever. And I gave one of my classic conversations or talks about inspirational leadership, which includes passion, inspiration, purpose, meaning, et cetera. And Literally every single one of them, just as frequently, just completely leaning and hungry for it. But many of them, of course, had said, I haven't done this kind of work. So you're right. I completely agree that there's an opportunity here to awaken more people to this and to stoke their appetite for it and give them something to chew on, which I think your book does so beautifully.

5:15 Yeah, absolutely. And I think the hard thing, and I hope someday maybe in our workplaces, in our schools, we do this kind of work with people. Because again, if you don't know yourself, you can't figure out yourself and you can't figure out other people and how to work together and all the human things, nothing else matters. Knowing trigonometry and knowing AI and. All the great things that we're doing and we focus on, none of that matters if people are in the mix. And hopefully for a while, we'll still be in the mix. Yeah. Well, that's why we started the Guster Now movement is to double down on humanity in the age of AI so that we are extended by AI, not replaced by it. That's the whole reason that we started that movement. Okay. So let's talk about the game that we're playing here. I really appreciate how you situated the chapter. You're not broken.

5:55 The game is. And I appreciate how you situate, you know, how so many people are on the outside so successful, but hollow on the inside. If you could speak a bit to this game that we're in. Yeah, I mean, it's interesting too. And again, part of this is the fact, and I hate to pick on New York City because I love it more than anything, but I lived there the last 15 years and I think it's on steroids there more than a lot of places. It does exist everywhere. It totally does. But I just think because the value system is different. The incentives are different, that everything's very different, just the way people interact and operate. And I even found myself, who is from Minnesota, I found myself even in the very early days subconsciously taking on some of those things and being like, gosh, this doesn't fit.

6:40 But if I want to survive here, that's what I thought. I want to survive here. And on top of that, too, being in corporate America and being in some of these very cutthroat organizations and environments on top of that, it just became very clear to me that I was just like, the more I saw it, the more I spent time in it. I just realized, like, these are all humans at the end of the day. Like, these are all souls. If you want to get really woohoo, I love. I hope your listeners do. Me too. I'm right there with you. Right. I mean, we would be yelling at people in a board meeting and we're doing this and that. But at the end of the day, who are we underneath all that? And so just again, I'm giving you a little bit of background context there, but I guess it's just something I kept seeing. Over and over again. And then we talk about the books. I was like, where does this come from? Right. And it's so much conditioning. And again, it starts in our family. As we talk about in the book, it starts in our school. It starts so young in advertising and everything and all the institutions and everything. that by the time we get to be, to your point, an adult and we're climbing that ladder, we're doing all the things we're supposed to do, quote, supposed to do, we wake up and realize, well, who am I on the inside?

7:38 I got real good at climbing that ladder, but was it my ladder? And usually it's not. Often it isn't. And then we wake up and our life is either over or we're having some problems. Right, right, right, right. And I so aligned and appreciated with what you said. You said that we are living through a crisis that goes Far deeper than economics, politics, or public health, it's a crisis of the soul, a collective hemorrhaging for meaning, connection, and vitality that's leaving entire generations feeling lost, lonely, and desperate for something they can't quite name. And then I want to share some stats here that are so sobering, and if you could maybe just sort of comment on this. You write in your book, 85% of executives report unhappiness despite professional success. This one, next one, all of them are incredibly sobering. But the next one, teen suicide attempts jumped 51% from 2019 to 21. 77% of Americans experience regular burnout at work. And one in four of us report feeling lonely despite being so connected more than ever.

8:38 Those are incredibly very just in-your-face stats that we just can't ignore this stuff. Yeah. And this is the thing that trips me up. It is that, and I hope I made this point in the book clear enough is that not only are those sobering, but also if you think about it, it's so counterintuitive. And that's why I think we're missing it because it's like, we're the most comfortable technically. I mean, granted things are a little dicey right now in the world in general, we know that I'm not going to, you know, I'm not discounting that, but in general compared to a lot of things and a lot of timeframes and that sort of thing in other countries, if you're speaking, speaking about the U S but, we are in a very comfortable place in the world, right? As far as like, we have more material possessions. We have all kinds of kind of quote connection with social media. We have all these things and to your point, even success. And unless we're doing that inner work, again, it comes back to that inner work. We can have all that external stuff, but if we don't have that inner foundation, everything breaks away and it really doesn't matter at all.

9:30 And so I think that's the most frightening part is that we're doing all these things thinking, Oh, I'm going to solve the problem. I'm going to feel enough, but I'm going to feel all these things. And we realize that they're just counterfeits. They're not real. And they don't give us what we're looking for, what we're chasing. A hundred percent, you know, and I'm, I have had enough of these kinds of conversations over the years and yours is just taking it to another level that really just brings it all together that I realized how much of my own life, thankfully to Neil, that I somehow managed to swim upstream. I didn't, I just, it was, there was just lots of things that happened that made it. So I didn't have a traditional education. You know, I did it outside the United States by correspondence. So I didn't, you know, get plugged into the system where you write about how, you know, in today's industrial era, that education is prioritized to produce compliant workers who follow instructions, sit still and behave I didn't have that. So I appreciate that.

10:23 Then we go on if we can and talk about, well, we've been chasing the wrong things. And so the question I love that you pose in the book, does this life, this specific life I'm living right now, allow me to become more full of in myself or does it require me to abandon who I am? And I, I think that's what we've been talking about here. People are, they're so more moored from themselves that they don't know who they are. Exactly. And I, Oh, we could talk so long about this. It's so important. And first of all, I'm really glad that you shared your context because I didn't realize that. And that just tells me that you're a rebel and that's why. That's why we like each other, my dear. I'm sure of it. No, it's a beautiful thing. And so we need more of that. And again, I think especially right now for a variety of factors, we can talk about some woo-woo, some not.

11:07 This is, I think, an era where we all need to be as authentic to our human nature, our true selves, whatever that deepest, weirdest, whatever makes us us specifically versus a random template or the random thing on Instagram that everybody looks the same way now and all these things. we need to double down on exactly who we are. And that comes with knowing who we are, which most people don't. So to your exact point, if we want to avoid all those traps on the external and like conditioning and all that, we have to do all this deep inner work first. And then again, the flourishing from within idea is coming because we're building our inner foundation and then everything else is a lot easier and it's a lot more true to us and we can be happy versus what most people do is building the outside and then the inside crumbles.

11:51 Well, and to that point, let's take it one step further. I really align with this too. You write in your book, but here's what you're discovering. Comfort doesn't produce flourishing. It produces fragility. I think that is so, so important to understand that. And of course, as a logotherapist, we understand through that conditioning that what we need as humans is a certain tension between who we are and who we're trying to become. We need that. When we don't have that tension, we go into apathy. So I really appreciate that. And if we contrast that, when you bring in, you talk about the concept of eudaimonia, which is often translated as flourishing or the good life. And you say it's richer than that. It's a life lived according to virtue, a life of meaning and purpose, a life of actualizing your potential and expressing your highest capabilities. Yeah.

12:38 And this is the funny, I have to admit this. My first book, as you know, and just in general, a lot of my work professionally, my main career is really focused on removing friction in workplaces, making, whether it's technology adoption or if it's like leadership connecting with their people, whatever that different friction is, which again, I write all about that in detail in book one. I have spent my career to remove that because I know that like, at least my assumption and my experience, I think I know, is that the less friction that people have in the workplace, the better they can do their work, the more wellbeing they have, all the wonderful things we're chasing is that. But I will tell you, I think what you mentioned just there, it definitely made me take a step back because you're right. When we think about flourishing, there has to be some friction. There has to be some tension.

13:24 There has to be somewhat discomfort or some discomfort somewhere. And so the way I kind of reconcile those is that. In the workplace, first of all, there's so much friction that we don't control and it doesn't benefit us at all that I feel like it is safe to say let's mitigate as much as we can in that regard just for a variety of factors. But in our personal life, I agree a thousand percent. We have to do the hard things. We got to have the difficult conversations. We have to push ourselves. And to your exact point, I think that when we don't, I think a lot of the unhappiness that we're seeing, and I don't want to stereotype too much, but I think if you look at the stereotype of like the person who never left their mom's basement and they don't go out and ask people, like I look at Scott Galloway's work, right? Like they don't ask the guy that people aren't dating. They're not asking people on dates. They're not going and going through the rejection activity of, you know, trying to get a job and they're just doing things online and swiping and ordering food and not, you know what I mean? Like all those things that are making us more fragile. I think that's a great way to think about it as like, that's not helping anyone. And then we just end up more lonely and more disconnected. Really?

14:23 Right. I'm sure I saw one of your posts about that on LinkedIn and commented on that. Yes. So we need to intervene in that drift big time. Yeah. Okay. So now let's go to this. Let's have the good news here. And you have a chapter on the good news and the way home. And I really love this. Now that we've situated how dire things are, let's give our listeners and viewers some hope. You say the good news is who you are at your core was never actually lost. It was buried, suppressed, trained out of you. but still there waiting to be reclaimed. Yeah. And this kind of makes me, I've been reflecting on this even with myself right now, because this is the other thing I'll say is that. I think that even when we do the work, as you.

15:06 Can probably relate to as well, even when we know this stuff, even when we've done this work for other people and we do do it on our own, right? We do the proactive inner work. We have to keep checking with ourselves because I've found that. Different times, even right now, I feel like I'm in one of those moments where I'm like, Ooh, I kind of feel unmoored to use your word earlier, a little bit untethered to all the things that were familiar. Cause I've had a lot of change in the last year. And I kind of have gotten to that point where I'm like, Ooh, I don't know. I feel like this is a major transition and I. Don't really know who I'm going to be next or where I'm going to go, but I do know what is true. And that's the beauty of getting older. You know, what is true. So even if you don't know everything, you can focus on those things. So to bring it back to your question, I think that's the key is just knowing, um, really understanding like what aligns with us, what resonates with us right now, and just continuing to have those check-in calls, right?

15:54 Because then we can go out into the world and operate from that place. And then even if we are evolving into somebody new or we're put in a new city or doing a new job or whatever the case might be, we still have that solid core. And so we have to keep that solid core. But to your point, we have to uncover it first and nourish it as we go or it goes away. And I think, you know, part of what I am so aware of, and I think this is because of my focus on purpose, because purpose works in part because we're mortal beings and we don't know when we're leaving. We don't know when the extra ramp is coming. And so I really appreciate it in your book, you say, because at the end of your life, you won't be asking whether you did what was expected. You'll be asking whether you did what was true for you. And that has been really important for me, Toniel. And that's why I have pursued what I've done with Gusto now. And I, you know, it wasn't, it didn't make logical sense. It didn't, It wasn't a safe move, but I did not want to get to the end of my life and go, you know, I didn't have the courage to go after it.

16:50 I missed it. I just wasn't willing to do that. I love that so much. I have to tell you not to bring it back to me, but I'm going to be calling you after this sister for some notes. I'm in an exact place like that. I made a decision earlier today, which I can tell you offline that was definitely not the logical or quote smart decision on paper, but just couldn't go on any longer the way it was. I feel like it was going to die inside. I appreciate that so much. I didn't want to die with the music still in me. I didn't want to do that. We will definitely talk more about that, my dear. All right, but let's let our listeners and viewers marinate in what we just served up there because I bet that's kicking up all kinds of things for them and let them think about what we've been talking about while we take our first break. I'm your host, Dr. Elise Cortez.

17:33 We've been on the air with Tonio Miller, an organizational psychologist, transformational leader, and former Big Four consultant who has spent nearly two decades proving that people's stuff and business results We're never mutually exclusive. Our career lives at the intersection of technology, strategy, and human behavior, leading enterprise-wide transformation for Fortune 500s, top firms, and high-growth startups based on the thesis that high performance isn't accidental. We've been talking about how we all got lost in this first segment. In the next segment, we're going to talk about and tap into remembering who we truly are. We'll be right back. Music you.

18:21 Dr. Elise Cortez is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose, an inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose-inspired leadership and meaning-infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite Elise to speak to your organization, please visit her at EliseCortez.com. Let's talk about how to get your employees working on purpose. This is Working on Purpose with Dr. Elise Cortez. To reach our program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Elise, A-L-I-S-E, at EliseCortez.com. Now, back to Working on Purpose.

19:12 Thanks for staying with us and welcome back to Working on Purpose. I'm your host, Dr. Elise Cortez, as I'm dedicated to helping create a world where organizations thrive because their people thrive. They're led by inspirational leaders that help them find and contribute their greatness. And we do business that betters the world. I keep researching and writing my own books. So one of my latest came out. It's called The Great Revitalization, How Activating Meaning and Purpose Can Radically Enliven Your Business. And I wrote it to help leaders understand today's discerning workforce. What do they want from you to give their best and stick around? And then I provide you 22 best practices to equip you to provide it for them through your leadership and your culture. You can find my books on Amazon or my personal site, EliseCortez.com. If you are just now joining us, my guest is Tenille Miller. She's the author of Flourishing From Within, Reclaiming Who You Came to Be in a Life That's Actually Yours.

20:00 So if we go on to the next segment here, and I love that you talk about, there's so much in here that I got that I thought about for myself. But when you have a whole section or a chapter on the you that isn't you, and I found the shadow stuff, the trigger so powerful, especially the shadow stuff, because I've not done a lot of the work with shadow. But you talk about shadow work is like debugging your personal software and shining a light on what you've suppressed so you can transform it into power and wisdom. That is so compelling. If you could say a little bit more about shadows and triggers. Yeah. So this is an interesting one. And again, I think, you know, if you talk to like a psychotherapist, this is like where they live.

20:41 Right. So this is not where you and I live necessarily. Yeah. But it's super interesting and very important. And what I've learned over the years is it definitely comes out at work. So we do need to know about it on some level, maybe not all the way down, but somewhere. And so the shadow and the triggers are all those things that are like the things that if we don't do this inner work and we don't do the reflecting, they keep coming up as different situations. It's like the same situation in different clothes over and over. And sometimes it's like self-sabotage and sometimes it's just really weird, reactive, angry behavior at work or wherever. Just all these weird things that kind of you're like. Sound like me or does it make you know things like that and people are usually scratching their head their whole life and they just never even think that it's there's something there this is there and this is a thing for all of.

21:26 Us and so i think it behooves everybody. To start with like that kind of work right to really get under there because this is part of that the part that isn't you but it plays out as you in. The world you know then there's this whole notion that you write about about core wounds and and you know you call them familiar foes and core wounds you say are deep emotional injuries from childhood that shape how we see ourselves, others, and the world. And of course I know, and I've co-written a book called The Power of Soulful Healing on the basis that every single human on the planet is walking wounded. The question is, to what extent are you aware of your wounds and what are you doing to try to heal them? Because otherwise, and this both of us know really well, what we're doing is we're throwing shrapnel into the world as we respond with and through those wounds. Yeah.

22:11 And I think this is one of the things that I see a lot in leaders. Again, Not blaming leaders, we all do it, but I just notice it in leaders and it's important in leaders because everyone's watching them. I always liken leaders in a company to like the parent of a household and the kids are like the employees. Cause again, we know there's a power dynamic, so it's similar there, but also they're always look like they're following that leader. So whatever that leader does, however they treat them, all everything, it's like on steroids. And a lot of leaders don't realize that. And I'm sure a lot of the work you do hopefully gets at that. But I think that this is extremely important because every, it's almost like anything a leader says does even just how they breathe. It sounds weird, but even just something as simple as that everyone around them is picking it up all the time and making all kinds of assumptions. And the leader usually doesn't even aware of it, let alone addressing it. So that's why we really need to double down again there and focus on that. And just to your point, be aware of the wounds. And I've had personal, we all have, but I mean, I even talk about in the book a little bit. Once you see this, you can't unsee it and you start seeing it in others.

23:11 You see it in yourself and you're like, Oh my goodness. So it's really key. Yeah, I a hundred percent agree. And you know, we are, we're all tender, you know, we're, We're tender, vulnerable human beings that have put all this armor over ourselves trying to make it through life. And inside there is this beautiful soul. In fact, on that note, I love what you wrote about. You have a chapter called Meet Your True Self. And then you go on to say, and I don't think I've heard too many people say this to Neil, you are made of stars. Literally, our bodies are comprised of elements like carbon, oxygen, and nitrogen forged in the hearts of dying stars. scattered through the cosmos.

23:52 We are the stardust with the nervous system, with a nervous system. We are the universe becoming aware of itself. Oh my gosh. If that's not so compelling, it doesn't start to make people lean into this, this journey. I don't know what would, you know, I so appreciate that. That's actually my favorite chapter. And I wanted to make the whole book like that because I feel like to your exact point. I wanted people to lean in and say, like, it's kind of. Like, what's the payout for doing all this work, right? Like, why do I even want to do all this stuff? And it's like, because if you could just see how beautiful you are, you are soul. And that means you are gorgeous. You are stunning. You are amazing. And so when you see all this stuff in the world that people are. they have low self-worth and they're treating themselves poorly. They're talking to themselves poorly, but they're also talking to others poorly.

24:35 And especially now we're seeing a lot more of that. I could just tear up right now. It just breaks my heart because we are this beautiful, beautiful thing, but we're not, we're not seeing it. No, I, I so agree. And I just, I just, this, this chapter really, really spoke to me as well. And I love how you say that we are the, we are the human expression of our souls. And I also really love this. You say, you say your dreams, your natural talents, your fascination with certain subjects. These are the breadcrumbs leading you back to who you really are. When you honor and express your true self, you give the world a gift that only you can give. I 100% align with that. It's so beautifully expressed, Tenille. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful that you saw it for what I wanted it to be. And I think that, you know, we see a lot of folks, especially young folks, but I think all folks, a lot of this stems from this.

25:24 And there's just this like, I don't know what my purpose is, right? You hear that. All the time. How do I make it happen? I don't even know who I, like all these things. And I'm like, you know what? It's those breadcrumbs, but no one teaches us how to follow them or do them. And obviously you do this work, but it's very rare that, you know, schools should be teaching this stuff. Right. Agreed. Well, thanks to you. I did have my conversation with Ingo Routh, the purpose turn. And we were talking about that. He asked me to share that. And I really said, you know, for me, you know, I think you have to be, you have to know yourself well enough, but it'd be still enough to be able to listen for the whisper and And feel the pull that's pulling you. And then you need some catalyzing agents to kind of help you as you start down that journey. And like for me, part of that was as soon as I started living this stuff and sharing it, the catalyzing agents were the affirmation I kept hearing. So they kept catalyzing me so that we need that stillness and we need some kind of a catalyzation agent, I think, to kind of move us down this trail.

26:24 I think that's so well said. Cause I've kind of thought through that too. Like I'm trying to get it down to like, think about like, what are the first principles of this? And I feel like to your point, I talk a lot about knowing yourself and knowing your foundation and knowing where you stand and that is super important. But to your exact point, it's not just us in the universe, right? No matter whether you're religious or not, no matter what, whatever you believe, there's something pulling us and trying to guide and nudge us, but we don't hear it. And we're not paying attention if we're, um, focused our attention elsewhere in chasing society's goals. Or to your point, if we're just kind of pigheaded and kind of just, I'm in my own world, I'm not thinking. We need to kind of have all these different things. I think that's well said. Well, and I think it's almost like, you know, we were, we're sort of cultivating our, you know, our, maybe our sensory system, our own internal intelligence to be able to pick that up, to grasp it. And I think that's been part of, I think my journey and some of the people that I've helped along the way too. And, And to your earlier point, if we're living in such a loud space and we're running after what somebody else tells us is the right way to go, we can't hear those signals. Yeah.

27:28 And I think that's the most important thing ever. I'll be honest. I'm not somebody that likes to sit a lot and be still. Candidly, I just don't. And we all hear meditate, stillness, quiet. But I will tell you, there have been times, I mean, everybody can have stories like this, but you're so right. I've had so many Times in my life where, you know, whether, you know, the office is closed for a week or maybe you have an illness or whatever the case might be where you just have nothing but time and stillness. And if you stay with it, those nuggets come in and then you can be eight times more productive later and you have all these amazing insights and things you would never have access to if you're always pulling in content and going, going, going. 100%. Yeah. And that's a muscle that we can all, you know, learn to work. Um, so then let's talk about, then I love this chapter on feeding your soul in a world that starves it. Oh my gosh. This is just, and you talk about how, you know, there's this, there's a conversation in there where, um, some, somebody is seeking some help and the person says, you're not broken. She says, you're starving and you've been trying to satisfy a soul hunger with ego food. Oh my gosh. If that's so powerful, I mean, really. you know and I love this you say you know you're not depressed you're you're you're not broken you're starving and and and you've been feeding the wrong hunger and so I love that you talk then let these these being needs the soul's three hungers I want to just talk through the becoming belonging and beyond so powerful to Neil this is just like I think this is some of your some of the most brilliant parts of your of your book so where do you

29:00 want to start with these three needs it's. First of all, thank you. I am blushing over here. Let's start with the first one. Okay. Becoming. And you say it is the need to feel alive in your own experience, express your authentic nature and grow into your full potential. I'll be candid. In this book, and I think this chapter alone could have been a whole book because it's so much content. Um, so I started out and I honestly was like, God, this is way too much. It was like three times as long, the chapter itself. And I broke down all these three into the, I think it ends up being like eight or nine actual needs, but I wanted to make it palatable because you know, people are busy and whatever. So I just say that with a caveat that that's how i bucketed them but i think they are all their own individual unique beautiful thing um this this one's really about it's the the thing that we don't make a lot of time for which people including myself would often in the past say is frivolous which is that presence that um The joy to be, you know, being in Italy. Yes. Yes.

30:02 All that stuff. Just, it sounds frivolous, but it is what feeds your soul. So that is one of the needs, right? Another one is that. Go on to that really quick. That's the, that's the becoming, right? Yes, yes, yes. I just have to share this because I think it's so beautiful. So you write to support this becoming need. You talk about the palliative care nurse, Bronnie Ware, who spent years working with people in their, in the final weeks of their lives. and she has a book out and she reveals that the most common deathbed regret isn't about mistakes made. It's about the life unlived, the self unexpressed, the potential quietly abandoned somewhere along the way. And that's what I was aware of for me to nail that. I was like, I just was so hell bent that I did not want to experience that. So I wanted to bring that to life because I think it really will, it will speak to a lot of our listeners and viewers on the becoming need.

30:52 Okay. Um, All right, so then if we go to the second one that you talk about in your book, belonging, which you say is the need to connect deeply, contribute to others, and feel like you matter. Yeah, and in my mind, this is where a lot of the purpose work that you and I do comes in, the meaning, the purpose. That kind of thing. I mean, and again, this is other aspects as well, but I think the main thing from my perspective is that meaning. It basically means it's beyond us, right? So whether that's some people get meaning from being a mom or from having a great marriage, wonderful. Some people it's contributing to the whole community and the whole neighborhood. Some people it's their work. That's me. You know, like whatever that is, but where you're contributing these gifts or serving or connecting and whatever that looks like for you, that's what this one is really about.

31:34 Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And I also appreciate in this, because I speak a lot about belonging. In fact, I'll be speaking about that at HR Southwest Conference and here in Fort Worth in October. But you go on to say, you know, belonging is your soul's hunger for genuine connection, meaningful contribution, and feeling significant. It's the need to be truly seen, known, and valued. And to your earlier point, so many people do not feel that way. Yeah. Okay, then beyond is, of course, really enticing. And the older that I get, the more I step in and my spirituality unfolds. And the more that I can experience this on a cellular level, that is just incredible. So the beyond need, you say, is the need to transcend the small stuff and touch the infinite.

32:21 Yes, this gets very much at Victor. I'm sorry. I think it's Viktor Frankl's work, yes, but I think his is peppered throughout here. But I just, I think this is that, and again, the book, I try to keep a real fine line, right? Because I don't want to go into the world of religion, even though I think it's important. I don't want to steer anybody away or make them kind of be offended by it. So I try to keep this very much about whether it's the universe or it's science or it's God or whatever you call it. This is what is beyond us. What else is out there? Aren't we curious? Right, right. Kind of thing and just having some sort of a connection. Cause I think that's where, you know, when we feel small to your point, if I could be out walking in the forest and all of a sudden I, I can feel the trees breathing, you know, like I can, you feel it, you feel it. And to your point, it's only something that's visceral. I don't think you can intellectualize it. So that's very much what this one is about.

33:10 I appreciate this. And, and so this one you say beyond is your soul's need to touch something infinite, to experience something vast and sacred beyond individual experience. Your soul knows it's part of something, larger and hunger for experiences that remind you of this. And that's why for me, I've had on the show, people that have there, like Monica Parker wrote a 326 page book on wonder. It was amazing. And then having all, and then the last thing I'll say about this thing about beyond for me, if you haven't seen my octopus teacher, listeners and viewers to Neil, To me, it is a perfect exposition of this. It's an illustration of the tender, beautiful interdependence of all of life and beyond and its connection to beyond. Anyway, I had the associate director of the documentary on the show some years ago, but I've now seen it. I'm not kidding. It's now 17 times and counting. I go back to it when I want to feed my soul.

34:15 I'm adding you to my list. Thank you for that. So welcome. Okay, listeners and viewers, another break for you as maybe you go looking for my octopus teacher, but come back because we have more to cover. I'm your host, Dr. Elise Cortez. We've been on the air with Tennille Miller, an organizational psychologist, transformational leader, and former Big Four consultant who has spent nearly two decades proving that people stuff and business results were never mutually exclusive. Love that about her. We've been talking about the section of her book, which is all about remember who you truly are, In this last section, we're going to talk about creating a life that's actually yours. We'll be right back.

35:04 Dr. Elise Cortez is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose, an inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose-inspired leadership and meaning-infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite Elise to speak to your organization, please visit her at EliseCortez.com. Let's talk about how to get your employees working on purpose. This is Working on Purpose with Dr. Elise Cortez. To reach our program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Elise, A-L-I-S-E, at EliseCortez.com. Now, back to Working on Purpose.

35:56 Thanks for staying with us and welcome back to Working on Purpose. I'm your host, Dr. Elise Cortez. If you are just joining us, my guest is Tenille Miller. She's the author of Flourishing From Within, reclaiming who you came to be in a life that's actually yours. So this is going to be just a fantastic way to finish the conversation in this segment and by talking about building our foundation. And I, of course, love the way that you use language. It's so meaty. And you talk about how consciousness, the importance of curating your ecosystem and what you allow into your space, people, content, conversations, environments, determines the quality of your energy, thoughts, and ultimately your life. So powerful.

36:38 Yeah, I mean, you know this, I know this. I think people are waking up to this now. I think we're starting to get it, most people. But at the same time, those companies are so good at what they do, shoving all kinds of content in our face. It's not just that. That's one thing. But I think to that point. It's this whole idea of, I think in order to keep yourself, put your own mask on first, you have to think about content. Is everything, right? It's all the people in your life. It's the music you listen to. It's a podcast. It's the TV that's on the commercials that are on. Like, I mean, I remember growing up and my grandparents would mute the commercials and I thought, that's weird. Who does that? You know, now I get it. I do the exact same thing. I don't want to hear all that crap. We don't need it. It's all like, I don't want to go down a propaganda road, but like, it's all kinds of crap we don't need.

37:21 That's all I'm going to say. Yeah, no, and you do a really good job of really, really treating that in the book and that I think in a way that will help your readers understand that they need to be more vigilant about what kind of media they do consume. And then you go on, of course, and I think this is one thing I've been really aware of in my own life, Tennille, is the importance of raising your average, as you say. And, you know, you're quoting Jim Rohn's work, who says you become the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And I, I, I really see this and, you know, so being mindful and choiceful about who you allow in your circle and who you spend time with. Yeah. And I think it's a whole new level in today's world because back in the day it was like, oh, well, who I live next to, right.

38:03 Or who I work with or who I go bowl with on the weekend. Now so much is done online. I don't think people realize like anything that's in your feed. You should really be curating that, right? Anyone you're having any kind of conversations with or watching their YouTube videos, anything. And it's tricky, but we absolutely need to, because I mean, there's been, I put it in the book, there's data, there's science around. There's so much of it. I mean, even something as trivial sounding as like obesity, right? Like gaining weight or any other health behaviors or really attitudes, political, all this stuff. Just question who and what's around you all the time. And if it's what you want, that's great. Totally do that. But just be aware, I think. Yeah. And I think that that vigilance and that, you know, is this really what I want? Is this really working for me? Questions set is really important. And then this next one that you speaking about building your foundation here, I really appreciate this because as listeners and viewers, as you start doing this stuff, you're going to start rising.

38:57 And so then Tennille goes on to say the standards for who and what gets access to your inner world need to rise with you. And sometimes that means, you know, some people don't fit anymore or sometimes, you know, what you're doing or how you spend your time doesn't fit anymore. So that relational alignment, I thought was really powerful too. Yeah. And I think this is probably one of the hardest parts of the whole book and hardest parts of this work is that fact, because no one necessarily tells you that is like, oh, you're just doing things that are going to make your life better. To your point, you're rising, you're self-improving, you're getting more knowledge, you're doing all these great things, you're a which sounds great. But we don't realize there's a lot of people in our life that loved when we played small. And I talk a lot about, yes, yes.

39:38 Right. And it's like, you wouldn't expect it. And you kind of start being, it's like the bucket, right? There's that whole crab in the bucket example that people give all the time. They pull each other down and it's a lot of it's subconscious and it will just, it'll it's toxic. So get it out. It is. And then, you know, if you recognize that we're social beings and people don't want you, they don't want you to leave. You know, don't leave. I like where you're at, but you're trying to ascend. And so being mindful of that, I think, is so, so important. And then you have a chapter, which, of course, I love the whole idea. Be the CEO of your life. And I really appreciate, you know, your focus on be high agency. Part of you say part of radical responsibility is having high agency. the mindset of people who make things happen rather than waiting for things to happen to them. That's just so important.

40:24 And of course, as both of us are organizational psychologists, we understand the word agency, which is the capacity to make things happen in your life, move things forward. And you have so much more control than you think you do. I think so too. And I try to not, I mean, again, this could be a whole book in itself. And there's plenty of people that write about this, so I don't need to. But the point is, Even, and I talk about this, like there's a lot of people that don't feel they have agency, right? Whether it's confidence or I can do this or I can't do that. So many people don't feel that way. So I want to caveat that I am someone who's always felt that way for various reasons. But there's ways to do it. And you have way more than you think, as you mentioned. I appreciate it too. You know, you talk about high agency people don't wait to be chosen. And they also have an almost irrational bias toward action. I think that's, especially when you're up to something and you're trying to, you know, realize more of your potential and who you came to be. I just, I think that's something that I have learned over like maybe just, especially the last 10 years, Tennille, as how important it is to really keep yourself in motion, keep yourself in action.

41:28 Hence gusto, right? Like, yeah, let's do it. Drive on course, man. Move on down the line. We've got stuff to do. Yes, ma'am, we do. And then I, this is just really, beautiful. I, you know, I think I'm so aware of like in my own journey, like, I mean, I chose to do this kind of work and I, there's, there's so many pieces and parts. I didn't get married until I was 35. Didn't, didn't have my baby until I was 38. There was a lot of things that I did that again, weren't part of the script and I didn't do it necessarily. It, um, intentionally, it's sort of a lot of that just happened, but it helped me move away from the standard script. Um, so I loved your chapter on what success looks like. And of course, The deathbed question, part of what you mentioned here, you say that most people spend their one life living someone else's story. We know this because 92% of people say on their deathbeds that it's too late to change, that they live somebody else's story. And that totally breaks my heart.

42:25 I know that that gets back to the brawny where work that you talked about a little. Bit earlier in the book. I mean, I mean, literally that is my, when I get up every day, I, I don't want to have any regrets. I don't care what that is. If it's, I don't want to say something I can't take back. I don't want to not do something. You know what I mean? Like all those things. And so that is my driving force every day is exactly that not living that life. Cause to your point, 92%. That means most people are always are living a life that is never going to be theirs. And they will always have those regrets in their deathbed. And, I just can't, it's just horrifying to think of that. Yeah. And, um, yeah. And now again, I was one of those things where I just, I got to a place in life where I just, I couldn't look at that. And so oftentimes when I'm out speaking, I very much talk about, you know, what will you do with your one precious life and what, who have that Mary Oliver forget who that's credited to. Um, but it's amazing to me how arresting that is to people.

43:17 And the other thing, Oh, go ahead. Oh, I was going to say, I was just about to say that before you mentioned, because the point is, I think people hear that and they're like, oh my God, it's too big. I don't even know where to start. Just like purpose. It's so big. Okay. We need, we break, you and I do this. We break these things down because it sounds big, but it's actually not, but you got to break them down one step. At a time. Exactly. The other thing that I liked, we do in our programs too, Tennille, and it sounds really morbid, but I got it from Rabbi Daniel Cohen, who was on my podcast some time ago, who wrote a book, What Will They Say About You When You're Gone? And the exercise is to write your own eulogy, not your obituary, which says when you showed up and when you left, who you left behind, but the good story of your life. And it's amazing to me when you do that, I've done it, is you start to realize how much stuff you're spending unnecessary time and energy on. Clear that out of your way and go for the stuff that's important.

44:09 And then I always say, write it well, because someone might deliver that for you one day. I love that exercise. And I feel like that should be um, foundational, like, I don't know, in college and, and revisit it every year, sort of a thing, almost like spend a day every Christmas or whatever that might be for you and revisit that. Cause that should be your North star. You start at the end and then you have a plan to work forward from there. Yeah. And that's exactly it. And so you've got this destination point and, and it's, you know, it just really does help clear. And I can tell you, I first did it when I, when I was working for another consultancy company, after I went through my divorce and And they had us do it. And I wrote that thing to Neil and I went, huh, nowhere in here does it say I work for this consultancy company anywhere. The clarity was incredible, right?

45:01 It is. Yeah. So, you know, this is like, I'm sure both of us, I mean, I've had many people who literally suddenly left, you know, we didn't know their exit ramp was coming and it appeared and they're gone. And so I appreciate also in this chapter, you talk about You know, as you're looking at your life, you'll be asking yourself, did I really live? Did I follow my soul's whisper? Did I show up as the real me? Did I give everything I had? Those are the questions that I... These are things that I have been obsessed by. Gosh, I mean, mic drop. It's just... Yeah. I mean, honestly, I think I talk about this in one of the earlier chapters. Like I'm one of those people that to your point, very similarly, I've been obsessing about stuff like this my whole life. Like I just feel like I need to justify being alive. And that's just because I feel grateful.

45:48 It's not because I'm insecure. It's because I feel very grateful for being alive. And to your point, I need to figure out like, what are these big things that we can be doing, right? Whether it's purpose or it's like to not have regrets and use your gifts and serve the most people and all that. And I think anything's better than nothing. Just start somewhere. And your exercise is a great way to get there, I think. 100%. I think some people get really scared. They go, purpose sounds so big and overwhelming, as you say. And so then they're like, oh, I'm good where I'm at. But there's so much the world needs so much. And if you can summon your courage but also listen for that whisper and just start helping where you can help, already it's going to open up the spigot of vitality.

46:29 And you talk then further about, you know, that you talk about how real fulfillment shows up in three areas, meaningful work, authentic relationships, and an aligned lifestyle. So that meaningful work, whatever that is for you is just so important. It is. And honestly, even for people who are retired or students who are kind of just paying the bills right now, there's always something, whether it's volunteering or again, to your point, your side hustle, maybe you have a side hustle and you are content, whatever it is, you have to have that outlet. And it's so funny because it's, even if you don't spend a. Ton of time on it, or even if you spend a ton of time on it, some people are like, oh, I'll get burned out. It's too much. When you do what you love, even if it's not your day job, it's going to give you way more, like you said, vitality and motivation in every realm of life.

47:09 And it's like drinking coffee all day long because you're like. I don't even need sleep. I'm so excited. Like we've had those moments or a lot of them, hopefully, if we're lucky. And it's just like fire. It's wonderful. And definitely, I've worked with quite a few retired people who fully recognize, man, I need something besides golf. Something besides bowling or whatever else. And what I always say, which comes from my work as a local therapist, Viktor Frankl's work, is we humans are wired for service. We're not wired for just consumption, consuming life. Find someone you can help, whatever that is. Absolutely. So here we are. We've already come through the end of the show already. It goes by so fast. You know this show is listened to by people around the world who are interested in cultivating themselves as humans, becoming better versions of leaders and finding more ways to do business that betters the world. What would you like to leave them with?

48:03 I would just like to say basically everything I've said in the book, which is a summary of that would be just really get in touch with who you are on a deep level. And when I use the word soul, it doesn't have to be religious. It's whoever you are in your absolute core, that beautiful, beautiful child inside of you. Find that person, find out what they would want on their deathbed, right? Find out those, do the eulogy exercise and, And then just start living your life from there. I don't care how old you are. Just start slowly but surely doing it. And if you need some help along the way, obviously Dr. Elise's work in this book hopefully will be helpful. Yes, definitely. First, let me say thank you again for being you, Tenille. I'm so grateful that our paths crossed. I'm so grateful that I got to learn from you, be inspired by you, be connected with you. And now I get to share you with my listeners twice.

48:49 Me too. Thank you so much for sharing me. Absolutely. Listeners and viewers, you are going to want to learn more about Tenille Miller and the work that she does helping companies navigate change and accelerate performance and her latest book, Flourishing From Within. The best place to start that whole process is to go to her personal website, which is tenillemiller.com. Let me spell that for you. It's T-O-N-I-L-L-E and then Miller, M-I-L-L-E-R, tenillemiller.com. Last week, if you missed the live show, you can always catch it via recorded podcast. We were on air with Owen O'Kane, recognized as one of the United Kingdom's leading mental health expert. He is a practicing psychotherapist and a former national health security clinical lead. We talked about his latest book, Addicted to Anxiety, How to Break the Habit. See you next week for another nourishing and inspiring conversation. Let's continue learning how to help more people flourish, elevate your operating system as a leader, and create destination workplaces where legendary business takes place. Let's work on purpose.

49:48 We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to tune in to Working on Purpose, featuring your host, Dr. Elise Cortez, each week on W4CY. Together we'll create a world where business operates conscientiously, leadership inspires in passion performance, and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning and purpose they crave. See you there. Let's work on purpose.