What Achievers Teach Us About Motivation

WEBVTT

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortez. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working

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on Purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortez. Welcome back to

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the Working on Purpose Show. Thanks
for tuning in again this week. I'm

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your host, Elise Cortez, Johnny
from Dallas, Texas, which is home

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based for me. This program is
all about helping people more meaningfully and productively

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connect with their work and equipping organizations
to do the same for their employees.

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So I bring on guests with a
particular perspective or experience that I think expands

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the conversation, and I often draw
on the meeting work research I've conducted over

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the last fifteen years, as well
as my own consulting work that I do,

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including the work that I do today
in the Synium, which is a

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global management consulting firm. I'll get
to the program in just a second,

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but a big Thank you to my
media partner and sponsor, jobbing dot com.

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They are the leading locally focused job
board in the nation and they are

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dedicated to helping employers find quality talent
in their own backyard and giving jobs control.

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By their search they can find work
close to home. Great partnership.

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Thank you jopping dot com. Last
week, if you miss the show live,

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you can always catch the recorded podcast. We're on the air with Sean

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Anderson, who is a six time
motivational author and inspiring keynote speaker and a

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results producing people builder. We talked
about how people can recreate themselves to live

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a life with more passion and work
toward greater purpose, and it was a

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timely show given that many people are
working furiously to launch their New Year's resolutions,

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although Sean says every day is January
first. With us this week is

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Jeff Hayden, a speaker, ghostwriter
at LinkedIn, influencer, contributing editor of

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INC Magazine, and the author of
the newly released The Motivation Myth How high

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Achievers really set themselves up to when
we'll be talking about what we can learn

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from high achievers in famous people about
motivation. A different approach to looking at

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goals and how we can infuse more
purpose into our daily work lives. Jeff

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Jones is today from Virginia Beach,
Virginia, which is where he says it's

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actually snowing. Jeff, welcome to
working on purpose. Oh, thank you,

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Elis. This is a highlight of
my week. And once we're done

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talking, it's all downhill from downhill
from here. Unfortunately I don't believe a

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word of that, but I'm glad
to hear it anyway. I'm okay,

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God, really, I'm really glad
to talk to you and your audience,

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and it's great. So thank you. You're welcome. Thank you so much.

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This particular topic is well one of
my very, very very favorite I've

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had a lifetime fascination with motivation,
Jeff, and I, as I told

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you when we first spoke, I
know I'm going to get a ton out

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of this conversation. I know our
listeners will too, but I'm really riveted

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on it getting something for myself.
So let's get into it. So before

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we even talk about you and your
career, and I do want to hear

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something about that, let me just
start by asking the burning question that most

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of us probably have is what have
you learned by talking to famous people about

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how you look at motivation and goals
all. Probably the best way to illustrate

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that is I'll use one example.
I was talking to Venus Williams, which

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you know, if you're going to
drop a name, that's a good name

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to drop, and we were talking
about her career. Most people know her

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is a tennis player, but she
also does a variety of other things.

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She runs a design firm, she
has a fitnesswear company, she's getting a

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master's an interior design. She has
all kinds of interests and that basically makes

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her what I like to call a
serial achiever, which we can certainly talk

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about later. But the interesting thing
about it is she does all of these

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things at an extremely high level.
But at no point does she say that

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she ever had this lightning bolt moment
where she thought, Okay, you know,

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I want to be a tennis player, and I want to be,

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you know, number one in the
world and win Grand slams. She wanted.

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She was interested in tennis. Clearly
her father got her and Serena interested

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in tennis, but it was an
interest that became a passion through trying learning

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a little feeling good about what she
learned, getting a little bit better.

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Feeling good about getting better, that
motivated her to want to keep getting better.

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And so I thought about that,
and I thought about all the other

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people that I've talked to that are
incredibly successful, and not a single one

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of them points to this one moment
that I think popularly we think people have

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where it strikes them that this is
my white life's work, this is my

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life's purpose, and I will go
on for the next fifty years doing this

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because I have been struck by that
lightning bolt. And I thought that was

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really interesting because if you contrast that
to a lot of the people that I

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talked to who say they feel stuck
or that they say they haven't really found

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what it is they really want to
do that gives their life purpose and meaning,

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they're waiting for that moment to hit
them. And so I we can

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talk about that further. But the
juxtaposition of that, I think is really

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interesting because the people who have achieved
a lot didn't wait, They just tried

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something, and the people who feel
stuck and don't feel like we've achieved what

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they want to they're waiting for that
to hit them. Oh, Jeff that

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is so yummy, And yes,
I do want to talk more about that,

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because it is smack up my alley
of the kind of work that I've

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been doing a focus on that as
well. And you're right, I think

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people are witting and they're hoping for
that lightning bolt that strikes them. I

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think that's exactly right, and they
get frustrated when it doesn't hit them.

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And so the other thing that happens, I'm sorry the other compe that people

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always assume, or a lot of
people I think, assume that whatever they

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choose, it's this lifelong decision.
So if I decide I want to be

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I don't know, to pick something
a teacher, then I have to be

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a teacher for the next forty five
years. And if I get fifteen years

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in and decide I want to do
something else, then I wasted that first

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fifteen years, which high achievers don't
look at it that way. They look

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at it as wow, I took
this really far. I really enjoyed it.

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I learned a lot. Now I'm
interested in whatever else that might be,

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and I will bring all of those
experience and skills and all of that

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knowledge with me to whatever my new
pursuit is. So there's that idea that

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I can only pick one thing,
and that's crippling, and you know,

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excuse me. It kind of makes
people paralyzed because how do you know that

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you've picked the right thing? Mm. I also appreciate that too, because

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I do think it does paralyze people, and people get concerned with, wow,

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how do I pick the one right
thing to do in this big old

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world out there? Right? And
if I get ten years into it and

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now I decide that I don't really
like it anymore, well, I'm kind

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of stuck. But I don't think
you are stuck. I think you can

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be a number of different things.
One of my favorite things is to hear

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people you know, you hate that
question at a party where somebody says,

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what do you do? You know, that's pretty dull. But I love

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when people say, well, I'm
this, and I'm that and I'm something

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else. I love the people that
are and because that means that you're following

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several different things that you're interested in, and they all overlap, happen in

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some way and cause you to have
a richer life. And in some ways

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that helps you blur that whole line
between work life balance, which you know,

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I think is a myth in and
of itself. It is just life

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and how you a portion it is
up to you. But when you have

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different interests, you are much more
likely to find one that really makes you

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feel good about yourself and what you
do. M. Yeah, and I

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have to I have to share,
Jeff to that. And when I go

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to any social event, I don't
ask anybody what they do, because some

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people don't actually work, or they
want to work, or they do other

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things. So I've learned to ask
what do you pour yourself into? Right?

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And when I when I ask people
that question, wow, I get

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it just I mean all kinds of
responses and usually a lot of hands like

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you said, So I like that
and indication too for me. Well,

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on the other side of it is
that sometimes what you do does isn't the

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thing that defines you. That's right, or that's maybe the springboard to what

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defines you, but it may not
be the central thing that defines you.

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M. I know that because of
the rest said I've done, absolutely know

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that. And speaking of that,
Jeff, I'm I'm very curious. I

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think you are a very curious person. By the way. That's how I

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talk about you. How did you
get interested in learning about motivation in the

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first place. That's pretty simple too. The some people do big things,

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some people try to do big things, But the word do is part of

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it, because if you're going to
achieve something and be successful, you have

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to do and that usually an external
force won't carry you through the hard time.

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So if you have some external motivation
for what you're doing, then when

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times get tough, it's really easy
to bail. But if you have found

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within yourself what interests you and that
spark inside you that keeps you going,

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that's usually what gets you past the
barriers and the hurdles and the challenges.

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And that's what well, that that
keeps you in it for the long haul

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if if for no for want of
a better way to put it. And

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so the you know, you can
look at the end results and say,

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Wow, this person did XYZ and
got to this place. But I think,

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and what's really interesting is how did
they find the effort, the willpower,

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the perseverance, the work ethic,
all of those qualities that cause them

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to be able to do X,
Y and Z. And I think that's

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you know, that's the start.
Well, I could tell the story now,

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but I won't because I want to
make sure we have time for you.

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But that whole notion of intrinsic motivation
when nobody has to okay, nobody

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has to tell you, you know, to do this. So my quick

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story is this Jeff So years ago, when my daughter was very young she's

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now fourteen, her dad and I
used to talk about, you know,

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what kind of work that she could
do, and he as a financial guy,

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I used to say, she could
do anything she wants to do,

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as long as she's an investment banker
or an accountant. And I was like,

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ah, you know, have you
met her. I really don't think

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that's to be the right way for
her to throw her talents into the world.

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So how about we just kind of
observe her first and see what emerges,

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and then we'll nurture what kind of
shows up. Well, what showed

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up was she wanted to be a
chef, and so I said, all

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right, well, let's get her
websites to get her cards. She had

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Gabby's Gastronomy written on her business cards. She pindled them door to door,

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and the thing that kind of illustrates
what you're talking about here is that we

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would go on vacation to three of
us, and she'd be the first person

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that got up in the morning,
like even five o'clock in the morning,

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back when she was like eight,
nine, ten, and she would find

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a cooking show on TV and she'd
watched the whole thing and then she would

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take whatever she learned in that cooking
show and she'd make us breakfast. So

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the thing that's beautiful about that is
that it shows that nobody had to ask

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her to do that. She would
have done that for you know, if

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nobody had to ask her or even
ask her not to do it, because

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it was intrinsically motivating to her.
That is power. I think when you

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can really unleash that kind of motivation
in yourself, it's it's almost unstoppable,

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it seems. And that no different
that actually leads to is is something that

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I write about and it's either she
had the power of process on her side.

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So yeah, she wanted to be
a chef, but what one of

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her processes was to watch something,
try to figure it out and absorb it

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and then put it into action and
if it went well, that's great.

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You feel good about yourself. If
it doesn't go so well, you learn

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from that, but each one of
those successive steps gives you the motivation to

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try again the next day because you
got some feedback from yourself about your effort

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and how you did, and you
got to feel good about the effort part.

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And that's that to me. Is
something that sets successful people apart oftentimes

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is that they don't focus necessarily on
the end goal. Like she was.

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She wanted to be a chef,
but what she focused on on a daily

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basis was what process can I follow
that will get me a little bit closer

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to that end goal. And so
a lot of the SCSUL people, I

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know, they set this big goal, but then it's almost like they forget

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it. And what they do is
they focus every day on the process that

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they have developed that they feel will
help get them to that end goal,

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because otherwise you're stuck with that class
between here and there. If I've never

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cooked before and I want to be
a world class chef, you know,

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the first time I try to make
grabbled egg and it does and go too

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well, and I think about what
the world class people are doing. The

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distance from here to there is way
too wide, and it's defeating, and

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it makes you feel bad and you
give up because wow, how I'll I

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ever do that? But if all
you're setting out to do today is learn

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to make scrambled eggs, no,
no, this is a terrible example.

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But work with me, and you
do it better today than you did yesterday,

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then you feel good about that.
You can move on to the next

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day because you accomplished what you set
out to do today. And that's really

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the point. It's not to look
way out and say how much farther I

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have to go. It's just to
say, hey, I set out to

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do these things today, I did
them. I feel good about myself.

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This was a good day. I
can't wait till tomorrow to have another good

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day. I think it's just so
refreshing to hear you talk about how you

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bring this to life for people.
And I know I've already I've gotten something

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from your book already and from our
first conversation, and I wanted to also

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hear you say a little bit more. You hinted at it earlier, but

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first, you know, why did
you start studying famous people? How did

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you get access to them? And
I know that you've also told me that

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they look at motivation and goals differently
than us. Maybe everyday people do it,

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and I'd love to hear you presence
that for us. The well,

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the part about getting access was a
process in and of itself. I write

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for Ink, but I didn't have
much of an audience, and so I

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couldn't get in front of those folks. But there was a certain for one

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of a better way to put this, there was a certain level of entrepreneur

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or athlete or entertainer whatever the industry
that I could get in front of.

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And so if I did a good
job with talking to them, getting insights

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from them, creating content that people
really liked, then I had something to

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show again for one of a better
way to put it, the person that

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was at that next level up.
And so there was just a process.

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It's like, okay, I'm starting
here. I can't get Richard Branson today,

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but I can get these people,
and then if you build a little

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bit, then you can get these
people, and then you can get these

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people I am. One day,
I eventually found myself in front of Richard

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Branson and he forced me to eat
half of his sandwich because he wanted to

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eat and he was hungry. But
he didn't want to eat alone, you

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know, which is another story.
But it was a it was a process.

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But if I when I had started, if I had looked out and

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said, wow, I want to
talk to Branson or Cuban or Venus or

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you know, you name it,
if I would have never gotten there because

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all those doors would have been shut
to me and I would have given up.

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But I just focused on, Okay, how do I build this?

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And that, to me is what
really set successful entrepreneurs apart. If they

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want to have one hundred million dollar
business, Okay, you can't get that

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overnight unless you're extremely lucky. Well, what you can do is built your

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base, keep working your way up, keep satisfying customers, keep growing.

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It's a process, not some overnight
success story. Got that now? You

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also, and I want to hear
you if you can distinguish this because you

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I talked about this spriefly in our
phone conversation when we first met. How

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how do famous people look at motivation
and goals? How would you describe that?

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Is it that process you're talking about
or is there more to it?

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For most of them, it's if
they work backwards. So where do I

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want to be? What? What
do I want to be at some point?

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And then they work backwards and say, Okay, what have other people

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done that allowed them to get to
that point? And what processes can I

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adopt? What things can I mimic? There are all these perfectly good wheels

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out there that you don't have to
reinvent, you know, and if you

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look closely and say, okay,
if it worked for this person, then

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you know, I'm going to do
that, and you may make some course

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corrections along the way, but you
can you can get there without having to

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come up with something that is totally
unique just to you. So that that,

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to me, is probably the biggest
difference. They figure out a goal

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and then they work backwards and say
what is involved, and they don't shy

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away from the hard work that's involved
in some of those steps. I think

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we've been we've been conditioned to a
degree to look for shortcuts and hacks and

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you know, easy routes to places. And maybe that works once in a

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while, but usually it only works
for the person that wrote it. In

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large part, the successful people that
I know out work, outthink, and

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out hustle everyone else around them.
There is that is the recipe. It's

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there's no secret sauce really, so
they're willing to do the work. And

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that's the other big part of creating
a process is you've got to say,

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I'm not going to put together what
I want to do. I'm not going

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to set up a process that feels
good to me. I'm going to pick

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out something that if I do it, I will get there. And then

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you just sit down to do the
work. And if you construct it properly

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so that you have little milestones along
the way where you can enjoy those little

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successes that help keep you motivated,
then the road doesn't seem nearly so long.

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I have to tell in it out
really quick, Jeff, just because

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of the research that I've done and
the work that I've been doing over the

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year, is really investing in a
piplefind meaning in their work and their lives

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too. Is that when people do
work like that, when they work really

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hard at something and they have something
comes to pass for that, there's a

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tremendous maunt satisfaction in that. And
the words part of the effort is what

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makes for the fulfillment, right exactly. Yeah, oh yeah, think about

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the best. Think about a day
lately when you've gone home and you felt

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really good about your day. It
wasn't one where you got lucky. It

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wasn't one where a client or an
opportunity dropped into your lap. I mean,

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that's fun. But the days where
you feel really good is where you

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had something challenging that you set out
to do and you worked hard, and

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you worked your way through it and
you got to the other end and you

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did a really good job at it. And the fatigue whether mental, physical,

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emotional, whatever it is that you
feel at the end that contributes to

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that good feeling because you've got that
wow, I worked hard and I feel

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good. That's that front porch moment
where I had a good day. A

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good day is not you know,
it's great if you get lucky and get

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a new customer. It's great if
you buy a new house, but the

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new house feeling goes away. But
you can experience that wow, I worked

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hard and I did what I set
out to do today. You can experience

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that feeling every day and that's when
you get there. Yes, sir,

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yes, I know, and I
knowed how powerful that is for fulfillment and

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satisfaction. I know that. Let
me let's talk about this little thing we

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might continue to after the break,
but I also know I want to compare.

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In contrast, you talked about how
famous people look at motivation, how

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do us everyday people look at it? What's the difference? Well, not

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you, clearly you're not in everything. But if we think about the let's

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put me, let's talk about people
like me. Although hopefully I don't fall

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into this either. It's they think
of motivation again, like I talked about

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early on, is it is something
that you get from somewhere, somehow,

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something happens that causes you to be
motivated, whether it's an outside force,

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00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:03.599
whether it's that lightning bolt I talked
about something there is something outside of you

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gives you motivation. And the flip
side of that for successful people are highly

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successful people, is they see motivation
as something they can create. And again

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I'm not going to be labor the
point, but it goes back to that

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I will be motivated if I have
a plan, work my plan, enjoy

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a small success from my plan,
feel good about that. That makes me

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happy. We all love to be
happy. We all love to feel good

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00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:32.039
about ourselves, and that motivates you
to get up the next day and just

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do the next day. It doesn't
have to carry you through an entire year

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or decade. It just has to
carry you through the next day. And

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if you have those little successes from
working hard and feeling good about yourself,

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you have an endless supply of motivation. You don't need a well spring of

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it, You just need little drips
that you create. So the bottom line

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is you can create your own motivation. You don't have to wait to get

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it. Oh, I think I
hope that I listeners find that incredibly heartening.

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I hope that they do. I
certainly do, and I understand that.

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But the way you presence that gives
us such access to it, Jeff,

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it's it's fantastic, it's very It's
an empowering thought because you don't have

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to wait for it. Yeah,
you can do it yourself. You've created

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yourself and that's that's what I That's
one of my big things is empowering people.

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So part of the reason why I
like to host the show is I'm

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trying to empower my audience to be
able to go after the life and work

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that they really want. So that
was a gem. And with that,

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hold your thought for second, Jeff, it's time for our first break,

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I'm your host, Alice Cortez.
We' been on the air with Jeff Hayden,

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the author of the newly released The
Motivation Myth How High and Tears really

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00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:41.720
set themselves up to When you joined
today From Virginia Beach to Virginia, We've

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00:20:41.720 --> 00:20:45.519
been talking a bit about how famous
people look at motivation in contrast to the

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everyday people like us. After the
break, we'll get more into goal setting

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00:20:49.359 --> 00:21:06.319
and other things. Stay with us, We'll be right back. Friend us

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00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:10.880
on Facebook to keep up with what's
empowering the world. Voice America Empowermanson.

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00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:17.839
Elise Cortez is a speaker and engagement
and development catalyst. She designs and delivers

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00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:22.599
professional development, leadership and engagement workshops
and can bring her expertise to your organization.

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00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:27.920
She will help ignite meaningful development within
your workforce that will increase employee engagement,

332
00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:33.000
performance and retention. To learn more
or to invite Elise to speak to

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00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:37.400
your organization, please visit her at
www dot Elise Cortez dot com. She

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would welcome the opportunity to help get
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335
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or search for Voice America. It's
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that you deserve. Tune in every
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Oda. You can discover the you
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Time on the Voice America Empowerment Channel. It's sure to be a nourishing experience.

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It's your world. Motivate, change, succeed Voice America Empowerment dot Com.

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This is working on purpose with Elise
Cortez. To reach our program today,

350
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please call in to one triple eight
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You may also send an email to
Elise ali se at Elise Cortez dot com.

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00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:27.200
Now back to Working on Purpose.
Thanks for staying with us, and

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00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:30.079
welcome back to Working on Purpose if
you're just joining us. My guest is

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00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:34.039
Jeff Hayden, who is a speaker, coastwriter at LinkedIn, Influencer, contributing

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00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:38.240
editor of inc magazine, and the
author of the newly released The Motivation Myth,

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00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:41.440
How high Achievers really set themselves up
to win. I'm your host,

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00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:45.720
Elise Cortez, So Jeff. Before
the break, we were talking a lot

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about the contrast between how famous high
achieving people look at motivation and goals and

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how the rest of us do.
I wanted if we could next talk a

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little bit more. You already talked
a bit about this, some notion of

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how we set goals and then forgetting
them, and then also some process around

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on that. But because I know
many of our listeners have just come off

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come off of fresh work of creating
resolutions, they're thinking about goals. This

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is really firm in their mind.
Can you say a bit more about both

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of those topics about setting a goal
and forget and then that cross process creation

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that you already alluded to before.
Sure, here's an example, least not

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last year, the year before I
decided to prove that well, let me

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let me take a step back.
One of the chapters in my book is

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work your Number, and it's basically
a way to create a process that is

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numbers based, where you do something
a certain number of times and over time

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that will lead you to a certain
result. So it becomes very simple and

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it's math and time related. So
to prove that that would work even in

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the silliest of pursuits, I decided
that I wanted to do one hundred thousand

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push ups in the year. There's
you know, there's no care and at

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the end of that, it's just
something I decided I wanted to do.

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So I broke that down and said, okay, that adds up to three

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hundred and seventy four push ups a
day. As long as I do the

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three seventy four every day, then
at the end of the year, I

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get to one hundred thousand. Now, clearly that's kind of a goofy goal,

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and I'll be the first to admit
that, but that what that kind

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of takes you to is I was
talking to two ladies that started a business

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and they were trying to get new
customers and they were complaining that it took

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them, you know, five or
six cold calls to land every new customer

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that they got. And they were
like, you know, that's it takes

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00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:30.319
so long, it's so much effort. We're not getting much of a return.

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And I said, well, how
many do you need a month?

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And they said, well, for
the next few months, if we can

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get you know, ten new customers, then we're good. If we get

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ten per month, and I said, well, then, you know,

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it's pretty simple what you have to
do. You just have to figure out

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a way to make fifty or sixty
cold calls every month and you'll get your

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ten. And they kind of looked
at me like I was stupid, but

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I said, you know, think
about it. If your strike rate is

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fairly consistent then and you have to
have those that number of new customers,

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00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:03.680
then that needs to be your mission
and you need to figure out a way

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to pull that off. Yes,
you can spend time as you go along

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trying to refine your pitch and you
can try to get better, and you

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00:26:10.839 --> 00:26:14.680
can try to improve so that hopefully
that return rate is better. But you

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know what you need to do.
And so tie that back to my push

401
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ups. If I know I want
to do one hundred push ups, then

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I know I need to do three
seventy four a day. So to take

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that to some other place, now, to go to that kind of forget

404
00:26:27.160 --> 00:26:32.279
your goal. If on January first, I do three hundred and seventy four

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push ups and I popped my head
up like a gopher and look out into

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the distance and see that I've still
got ninety nine thousand, you know what,

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00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:44.480
six hundred and some left. I'm
going to quit because that is way

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00:26:44.519 --> 00:26:49.119
too But if that's all I have
to do today, then I've accomplished that.

409
00:26:49.319 --> 00:26:52.720
I check the box off. Like
Jerry Seinfeld has this calendar where he

410
00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:56.200
writes, he still tries to write
a good joke every day, and when

411
00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:00.240
he does, he checks it off
his calendar and he doesn't stop until he

412
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:04.599
does, and over time he builds
up this repertoire. Over time, I

413
00:27:04.599 --> 00:27:08.400
can build up a lot of pushups, and over time, the two ladies

414
00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:12.759
that I was talking about builds up
a client base. So it's the idea

415
00:27:12.799 --> 00:27:17.920
is that you figure out a process
that if you follow it and you know

416
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:21.839
that it's going to give you a
certain return, all it is is time.

417
00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:25.720
And as long as you can forget
the distance and how far you really

418
00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:27.920
have to go and just focus on
the chunk that you need to do this

419
00:27:29.039 --> 00:27:33.400
day, this week, whatever,
then it's just time and effort. And

420
00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:37.599
so many things in our lives are
actually based on a certain amount of effort

421
00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:41.319
and a certain amount of time and
a whole lot of perseverance. And so

422
00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:45.680
if you can stay the course,
you can get to that other place.

423
00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:49.359
Okay, that was Chris, and
I'd like I was actually just heading towards

424
00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:52.799
that very word that you use,
chunk, And I think that makes so

425
00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:55.839
much sense if you can just say
this is whatever allotted to do that today

426
00:27:55.880 --> 00:27:59.279
that I have to get done in
pursuit of my overall, big, hairy

427
00:27:59.319 --> 00:28:02.480
goal, and this is all I
have to do, and you do it.

428
00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:06.640
I really, I really see the
magic in that, Jeff, especially

429
00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:10.599
in the consistency. We went within
our friend. We talked a lot about

430
00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:14.599
doing the push ups right you as
just as you were doing literally doing the

431
00:28:14.599 --> 00:28:17.960
push ups related to whatever it is
that we set out to achieve for ourselves,

432
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:21.880
and so I think I think that
makes that that's a really nice way

433
00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:25.039
to presence that whole process aspect you
were talking about. So thank you for

434
00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:26.680
that. I know you felt like
we had really talked about it, and

435
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:30.319
we had, but I knew for
our listeners there was more we could give

436
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:33.359
them some great Well. The cool
part about that is if you do that

437
00:28:33.480 --> 00:28:38.119
once, then that goes into your
tool kit, and that goes into your

438
00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:41.039
reserve of wow, I know how
that works. And so if you do

439
00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:45.039
that once with something, and you
have some other pursuit that you're interested in,

440
00:28:45.319 --> 00:28:49.279
and you break it down into those
kinds of chunks, then you have

441
00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:53.440
the confidence from the last time that
you could say, you know what I've

442
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:56.920
done that before, I know how
that works. If I do these things,

443
00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:00.359
I will get there. And every
time you do that, then it

444
00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:04.559
becomes clearer to you and it becomes
simpler to embark upon it because you've got

445
00:29:04.599 --> 00:29:08.039
that confidence of you know what I've
done that, I know that works.

446
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:15.480
I used to still I'm still I
don't know I say this. I'm a

447
00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:18.279
casual cyclist. For a while,
I was very into riding bikes and I

448
00:29:18.279 --> 00:29:22.400
would ride grand fondos that were like
one hundred miles four mountains, stuff like

449
00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:26.880
that. I know now from having
trained for those kinds of things, that

450
00:29:26.920 --> 00:29:32.039
if I want to go and do
one of those, I need to put

451
00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:34.279
about twenty five hundred miles in my
legs. For one of a better way

452
00:29:34.279 --> 00:29:37.279
to put it, I need to
go out in over a period of time

453
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:41.559
right enough, within a certain window
that I get about twenty five hundred miles

454
00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:44.039
in me And if I do that, I will be in good enough shape

455
00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:47.839
that I can knock that grand fondo
off. And so while that seems kind

456
00:29:47.880 --> 00:29:51.519
of daunting, it's actually very empowering. It makes you feel confident because it's

457
00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:55.119
like I know how to do this. All I have to do is do

458
00:29:55.279 --> 00:29:59.000
the work. And sometimes that's the
scary thing for people is they think,

459
00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:02.039
well, if I do all of
the work and I don't get any return,

460
00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:03.960
then while I'm going to feel like
I wasted that, and so it

461
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:08.119
makes you not want to start.
So again, the trick is, and

462
00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:11.640
I feel sure we're going to talk
about this later when we talk about I

463
00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:15.599
think people should look for pros,
not for coaches. But my next question

464
00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:19.160
to go out and look at something
where you can say, you know what

465
00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:23.799
that process works. I know it
works. I just have to apply myself

466
00:30:23.799 --> 00:30:26.920
to it. If you do that
once or twice, you will never look

467
00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:30.519
at things the same way again because
you know how to do it, and

468
00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:36.599
best of all, you know you
can do it. M Yes, and

469
00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:40.200
I really appreciate that you talked about
confidence, and I did want to see

470
00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:41.440
if you could say a little bit
more about just how you know, in

471
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:45.759
terms of the other ingredients you've been
talking about, the other pointers you've given

472
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:49.240
us about how to create motivation for
ourselves. You know how to be able

473
00:30:49.240 --> 00:30:53.559
to set you work from the numbers, if you will. I'm really interested

474
00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:59.039
to understand to what extent or what
weight would you give confidence in being able

475
00:30:59.079 --> 00:31:03.839
to work towards achieve How important is
that? Well? The paradox with confidence

476
00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:08.119
is if you feel like you haven't
really done anything that's super hard and achieve

477
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:12.480
something that is hard to achieve,
then you don't really have that that inner

478
00:31:12.519 --> 00:31:15.960
confidence that says, wow, I
can actually do that, So you have

479
00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:21.079
to take that leap of faith.
The cool part about it is if you

480
00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:26.680
scratch the surface of anybody who has
done really big things. They all were

481
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:30.599
you at one point. Yea,
they are all unsure, hesitant, And

482
00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:33.920
I've got this story. There's I
don't know if anybody in your audience as

483
00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:37.920
a NASCAR fan, but car racing. But there's a there's a guy I

484
00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:42.279
know that he right head, runs
in a series right below the cup level.

485
00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:45.319
So he's, you know, one
of the top let's say, one

486
00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:49.240
hundred drivers in the country. First
time he went to a really big track

487
00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:52.680
in a truck race, he had
never been on. It was actually in

488
00:31:52.720 --> 00:31:56.200
Texas now that I think about it, And so it's this big mile and

489
00:31:56.200 --> 00:32:00.599
a half track two hundred miles an
hour down the straight away. They told

490
00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:02.519
him the truck would it was he
didn't have to lift, he didn't have

491
00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:06.640
to get off the accelerator, and
the truck would be fine in the turns.

492
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:09.680
Went down into his turn the first
time lifted, couldn't do it.

493
00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:12.920
He thought, oh man, I
hit the wall. He didn't, goes

494
00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:16.279
around again, involuntarily picks his foot
up again. So here's a guy who's

495
00:32:16.319 --> 00:32:22.400
a very accomplished race car driver who
doesn't have the confidence in the car or

496
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:24.839
himself to let it go. And
so the next time he actually took one

497
00:32:24.839 --> 00:32:30.200
hand off the wheel and held his
leg down so he would keep the accelerator

498
00:32:30.279 --> 00:32:32.519
p for the floor so that he
would go through the turn. And so

499
00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:38.839
you don't think of a guy like
that not having that confidence. But everybody

500
00:32:39.400 --> 00:32:45.119
has that problem. The only difference
is the people that achieve go ahead and

501
00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:46.200
say, you know what, I'm
going to try it. If I don't

502
00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:51.400
get there, it's okay, but
I would rather know I tried than know

503
00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:57.920
that I didn't try and wonder what
could have been So long, answer short,

504
00:32:58.519 --> 00:33:00.799
you have to go ahead and try. But if you look for a

505
00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:04.160
process that you know works for other
people, that does at least give you

506
00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:07.400
the confidence that if you try,
you can probably get there too. And

507
00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:10.839
then once you've done that one hard
thing, man, you're ready to roll

508
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:15.759
because the next time you can apply
one thing, even if it's in a

509
00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:20.200
totally different field, to something else
and say, well I did this,

510
00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:22.799
Oh shoot, I can do that, And then you get two of those

511
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:27.480
under your belt, and all of
a sudden, challenges just become which one

512
00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:30.519
do I want to pick? It
doesn't become which one do I think I

513
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:35.519
can accomplish? It becomes which one
from the menu items do I want to

514
00:33:35.559 --> 00:33:38.119
pick because I know I can do
that and that is a really cool place

515
00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:44.160
to be in your life. Yes, it is sounds fantastic. Well,

516
00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:45.640
and maybe this is related, and
you and I talked about this briefly on

517
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:49.839
the phone, and you alluded to
it earlier. I'm curious if this is

518
00:33:50.119 --> 00:33:52.599
related to what you're talking about.
You have you said before that people don't

519
00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:54.960
need a coach, they need a
pro and then you said, I hope

520
00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:59.920
you don't coach. Julie's no,
I do. But what do you mean

521
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:04.720
by that they need a pro?
All right? It depends on that.

522
00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:07.400
That's a sweeping statement, first of
all, and it's supposed to be kind

523
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:09.679
of eye catching. But the point
of that is, let's say that you

524
00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:14.360
decide, I don't know, Let's
say that your new your New Year's resolution

525
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:15.360
was that you want to get in
better shape. First of all, that's

526
00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:19.760
a terrible resolution because what does get
in better shape mean? There's no way

527
00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:22.119
to quantify that, And when you
can't quantify your goal, it's really hard

528
00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:25.760
to work towards your goal. But
let's say that you decide that this year

529
00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:30.039
you want to run a marathon,
and you go to your local gym and

530
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:30.960
there's a trainer there, and you
say, hey, I want to run

531
00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:34.559
a marathon. And so they're going
to go through this assessment of where you

532
00:34:34.599 --> 00:34:37.760
are and what your interests are,
and what's your fitness level is and all

533
00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:42.280
this stuff, and you're going to
end up with a program that is sugarcoated

534
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:46.639
for you as opposed to the cold, hard facts. If you want to

535
00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:51.880
do this thing, this is what
you have to do. The first time

536
00:34:51.920 --> 00:34:54.639
that I rode one of those grand
fondos, I decided to do it.

537
00:34:54.679 --> 00:34:58.800
And I had four months to train, and so I went to a local

538
00:34:58.840 --> 00:35:01.280
games of professional mountain biker and he'd
been a national champion and won the Pan

539
00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:04.400
American Games and all this stuff,
and I said, I want to ride

540
00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:07.760
this grand fondo. I only have
four months and I've never really written.

541
00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:09.199
And he laughed and he said,
well you can't, and I said,

542
00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:13.000
no, I really want to try. He said, okay, if you're

543
00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:15.400
going to do that, here's what
you have to do. And my first

544
00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:19.679
day of training was to go out
and ride for three hours. And this

545
00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:22.760
is you know, I hadn't written
for more than ten minutes, so that

546
00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:27.880
wasn't what I wanted to hear,
but it was what I needed to do.

547
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:30.840
And so that kind of is my
point with that is if you go

548
00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:35.880
to someone and ask for advice or
guidance, the people you want to talk

549
00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:38.519
to are the people that have done
that and have worked through the obstacles and

550
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:43.159
worked through the problems and figured out
how to get to where you want to

551
00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:47.639
go, so that they can tell
you very clearly, here's what you have

552
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:51.840
to do. Because if you're going
to do something hard, if you're going

553
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:54.559
to accomplish something big, there's a
lot of hard work involved. So would

554
00:35:54.599 --> 00:36:00.320
you rather take the easier path that
is not likely to get you where you

555
00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:02.559
want to be and waste what effort
you do put into it, or would

556
00:36:02.559 --> 00:36:07.920
you rather take the harder path that
isn't going to be as fun but is

557
00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:12.119
almost certainly going to get you to
where you want to go? And to

558
00:36:12.199 --> 00:36:15.639
me, that's a really really clear
choice. And that's the difference between people

559
00:36:15.679 --> 00:36:20.440
who just kind of gently coach you
and the people who set you down and

560
00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:23.559
they're very honest and forthright and professional
and nice about it, but clear in

561
00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:27.239
that if you want to do this, here's what you need to do.

562
00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:31.639
Yeah, And so how I thread
that together. Something else you said earlier,

563
00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:37.039
Jeff, is that you're basically that
pro that you're engaging is the future

564
00:36:37.159 --> 00:36:39.880
that you want to work backwards from. They represent and know that future that

565
00:36:39.880 --> 00:36:44.239
you want to work backwards from.
Yeah, yep, and hopefully we'll talk

566
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:49.119
about that later because that person has
become what it is that you would like

567
00:36:49.239 --> 00:36:52.840
to become, which is where your
life, I think, really takes on

568
00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:58.559
greater meaning and purpose and fulfillment when
you become. Yeah, we got you

569
00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:01.039
just a couples before we go on
to our next and final break, and

570
00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:06.360
I do want to talk about that
because it gets to identity. But identity

571
00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:09.760
has been something that I've been investigating
for a lot of years in relation to

572
00:37:09.800 --> 00:37:14.199
the meaning and work stuff. So
I definitely want to spend some time chatting

573
00:37:14.199 --> 00:37:15.840
about that. But just really quick, before we go on break, say

574
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:19.119
a little bit about that to kind
of cue us up and they will get

575
00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:21.360
it. Get more into it after
the break, if you would please,

576
00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:24.519
Jeff Boom, all right, how
can I be brief because I've clearly shown

577
00:37:24.519 --> 00:37:34.320
no ability to do so you can
do it. The idea for most of

578
00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:38.159
the successful people that I've talked to, they don't see themselves as people who

579
00:37:38.280 --> 00:37:44.800
do things anymore. They see themselves
who are those things. So Kirk Hammett,

580
00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:47.639
the Metallica guitarist, he started out
and this is what he will say.

581
00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:52.880
He started out being a guy who
played guitar. Now he is a

582
00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:57.199
musician. He thinks of himself as
a musician. He sees himself as as

583
00:37:57.199 --> 00:38:01.800
a part of the musician community and
become part of his identity. And we'll

584
00:38:01.800 --> 00:38:06.519
talk about this after your break.
But the cool thing about that is when

585
00:38:06.559 --> 00:38:10.440
something becomes your identity, that is
almost like you don't need motivation to do

586
00:38:10.480 --> 00:38:14.360
it because it has become part of
who you are. And probably the best

587
00:38:14.360 --> 00:38:17.400
example for that is if you're a
parent, do you need motivation to take

588
00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:21.760
care of your kids? You know? Do you need to be motivated to

589
00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:23.719
get them out of bed in the
morning and take care of them? Now,

590
00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:27.719
it's what you do. You're a
parent. You're not a person who

591
00:38:27.920 --> 00:38:32.840
parents, You are a parent.
And so if that is foreshadowing enough that

592
00:38:34.039 --> 00:38:37.079
I think is a really important thing
for people where you actually get to the

593
00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:40.039
place where you don't need motivation.
M I think that's a great cliffhanger.

594
00:38:40.119 --> 00:38:43.920
Hold that thought Jeff, because I'll
chime into it as well. Time for

595
00:38:43.960 --> 00:38:45.519
a break. I'm your host,
Alice Cortez. We went on the Earth

596
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:49.599
with Jeff Hayden, who is the
author of the newly released The Motivation Myth,

597
00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:52.960
How high Achievers really set themselves up
to win. You joined us today

598
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:55.119
from Virginia Beach, Virginia. After
a break, we'll hear more about this

599
00:38:55.159 --> 00:38:59.760
whole notion of becoming versus doing.
Stick with us, We'll be right back.

600
00:39:12.039 --> 00:39:15.719
Friend us on Facebook to keep up
with what's empowering the world. Voice

601
00:39:15.719 --> 00:39:22.639
America Empowerments. Elise Cortez is a
speaker and engagement and development catalyst. She

602
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:28.599
designs and delivers professional development, leadership
and engagement workshops and can bring her expertise

603
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:32.400
to your organization. She will help
ignite meaningful development within your workforce that will

604
00:39:32.440 --> 00:39:37.480
increase employee engagement, performance and retention. To learn more or to invite Elise

605
00:39:37.559 --> 00:39:43.880
to speak to your organization, please
visit her at www dot Elise Cortez dot

606
00:39:43.880 --> 00:39:47.880
com. She would welcome the opportunity
to help get your employees working on purpose.

607
00:39:49.960 --> 00:39:53.159
We're making it easier to listen to
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614
00:40:30.519 --> 00:40:37.199
encouraged and connected on our Lively Award
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615
00:40:37.400 --> 00:40:42.920
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616
00:40:42.960 --> 00:40:46.360
four pm Pacific on the Voice America
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617
00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:52.119
for positive, uplifting, life changing
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618
00:40:52.159 --> 00:41:08.719
com jo follow us on Twitter for
more great ideas at Voice America Empowerment.

619
00:41:16.760 --> 00:41:22.679
This is working on Purpose with Elise
Cortez. To reach our program today,

620
00:41:22.760 --> 00:41:27.519
please call in to one triple eight
three four six nine one four one again

621
00:41:27.639 --> 00:41:31.000
that's one triple eight three four six
nine one four one. You may also

622
00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:37.639
send an email to Elise A l
I s E at Elise Cortez dot com.

623
00:41:37.639 --> 00:41:45.599
Now back to working on Purpose.
Thanks for staying with us, and

624
00:41:45.639 --> 00:41:47.760
welcome back to working on Purpose if
you're just tuning in. My guest is

625
00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:52.000
Jeff haydenew As, a speaker,
ghostwriter, LinkedIn, influencer, contributing editor

626
00:41:52.079 --> 00:41:55.599
of inc Magazine, and the author
of the newly released the Motivation Myth,

627
00:41:55.719 --> 00:42:00.480
How high achievers really set themselves up
to win. I'm your host to least

628
00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:02.239
Cortez. So before the break,
Jeff, you and I were chatting a

629
00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:08.280
bit about this notion of distinguishing not
doing something but actually actually becoming something,

630
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:13.440
and I told you I was going
to share I've got two takes. There's

631
00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:15.719
many things I could say about that
for myself, but one of them is

632
00:42:15.800 --> 00:42:20.800
that over the years I've been saying
that I have been doing this activity called

633
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:22.880
research. I've been doing this thing
where I've been investigating how people find meaning

634
00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:27.039
in their work as it related to
their sense of self. Well, now

635
00:42:27.320 --> 00:42:32.199
I've come to recognize I've become and
am further becoming a social scientist. So

636
00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:37.119
that's what I say. Now,
I'm a social scientist. And I used

637
00:42:37.119 --> 00:42:39.480
to also say that I did consulting
work. I did, I did organizational

638
00:42:39.519 --> 00:42:43.599
consulting, et cetera. That's what
I did for work. And really,

639
00:42:43.639 --> 00:42:46.320
now I see myself. I'm a
management consult and that's that's who I am.

640
00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:52.400
And there's something that's very distinguishing about
how you show up when you're in

641
00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:55.719
that different space. Can you say
a little bit more about that? Sure

642
00:42:57.280 --> 00:43:01.519
that those are perfect examples, I'll
do one that's not professional when and I'll

643
00:43:01.559 --> 00:43:05.239
do the bike thing again. When
I first started riding bikes, I felt

644
00:43:05.239 --> 00:43:07.079
like a guy who was out riding
bikes. But I worked at it some

645
00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:09.519
got a little fitter, got a
little bit, got in a little better

646
00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:13.719
shape. Finally went on a ride
with a few other people. Felt really

647
00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:16.119
awkward and out of place and like
I didn't belong. But in time,

648
00:43:16.639 --> 00:43:20.599
as I got a little better,
I started to say, wait a minute,

649
00:43:20.599 --> 00:43:22.760
I'm you know, I'm part of
this. They accepted me as part

650
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:28.760
of their group. I became a
cyclist, not a professional, but a

651
00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:32.599
cyclist nonetheless, not a guy who
rode bikes. And that is a huge

652
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:38.159
thing in terms of confidence and feeling
of community and identity. And there's you

653
00:43:38.360 --> 00:43:45.119
you mentioned research. There's this cool
study that some researchers did where they took

654
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:50.559
three groups of people and they they
wanted them to start a fitness program,

655
00:43:50.679 --> 00:43:53.800
and so they gave two of the
groups a coping strategy if they felt like

656
00:43:53.840 --> 00:43:58.000
their willpower was slagging and they didn't
want to work out today. One group

657
00:43:58.079 --> 00:44:01.519
was told to say I came to
miss a workout, another group was told

658
00:44:01.559 --> 00:44:05.960
to say, I don't think the
workouts, and the third group was told

659
00:44:06.280 --> 00:44:08.960
nothing. They had no coping strategy. So at the end of this period,

660
00:44:10.039 --> 00:44:14.159
what's funny about it is that eight
out of ten of the people that

661
00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:19.679
were I don't stuck with the program, three out of ten of the people

662
00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:23.000
that had no coping strategy whatsoever stuck
with the program, and only one out

663
00:44:23.039 --> 00:44:28.800
of ten of the I can't stuck
with the program. And it leads to

664
00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:31.920
to an interesting conclusion because when you
say I can't, what you're really doing

665
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:36.360
is opening up a negotiation with yourself, you know, like, I can't

666
00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:39.840
have that, well, I kind
of could, you know, because tomorrow

667
00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:43.440
if I work out, or tomorrow
if I don't do this or don't do

668
00:44:43.480 --> 00:44:47.679
that, and so suddenly you have
to use willpower in order to push aside

669
00:44:47.719 --> 00:44:52.440
that piece of cake. Whereas if
you say you know, I don't eat

670
00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:54.320
dessert. Let's just use another as
an example. Well, then it's an

671
00:44:54.360 --> 00:44:59.480
identity thing. Then it's who you
are. So it's like, do parents

672
00:44:59.559 --> 00:45:05.119
have to say I don't neglect my
kids. Well hopefully not, but that's

673
00:45:05.119 --> 00:45:07.840
an identity thing. Or if it's
a boss and you say, you know,

674
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:15.000
I don't treat my employees poorly,
Okay, not that I can't,

675
00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:17.199
but I don't, or I don't
ask acton ethically, or I don't whatever

676
00:45:17.239 --> 00:45:22.039
it is. If it's a don't, what you're saying is that's not who

677
00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:24.599
I am, and that's an identity
thing, and that means you have become

678
00:45:24.679 --> 00:45:30.119
that. And so that whole process
is really cool of becoming because if you're

679
00:45:30.159 --> 00:45:32.800
first put into a leadership position and
you're a supervisor for a while, you're

680
00:45:32.800 --> 00:45:37.760
a person who supervises, but at
some point, if you work at it

681
00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:40.880
and gain some skill and experience,
you become a leader and you see yourself

682
00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:45.519
as a leader. And then if
you go into other roles, you feel

683
00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:49.920
confident because while you may not know
the functions, you know how to lead

684
00:45:50.039 --> 00:45:53.280
and you are a leader. So
that whole idea of becoming is a really

685
00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:58.519
powerful thing. And what's cool about
it is that you can become anything you

686
00:45:58.519 --> 00:46:01.719
want as long as you We're back
to process again. But if you follow

687
00:46:01.760 --> 00:46:07.559
a process that allows you to gain
some skill in some achievement, you wake

688
00:46:07.639 --> 00:46:09.840
up one day and you realize that, hey, I have become this thing,

689
00:46:10.239 --> 00:46:15.719
and that is a huge source of
motivation because it's fun to be that

690
00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:17.480
and at some point you don't even
think about it. It's just what you

691
00:46:17.559 --> 00:46:22.760
do. M I got a chime
in with two things on that really delicious

692
00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:27.360
conversation there, Jeff, thank you
first, because I had been studying identity

693
00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:30.559
for a long time. I know
the process, I know the formulation aspects

694
00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:35.159
of identity, and I know the
function of it. One of the major

695
00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:38.679
functions of identity is it drives behavior. And that's why it's so powerful.

696
00:46:39.400 --> 00:46:43.719
And that's what you're getting at,
right. It drives behavior. So I

697
00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:45.719
think of myself as a runner.
Well, if I'm a runner, that

698
00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:49.760
means, whether I want to really
or not, I'm going to get up

699
00:46:49.800 --> 00:46:52.760
on Tuesday's, Thursdays and Saturday morning
and I'm going to run because that's who

700
00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:55.360
I am. Yeah, I'm runners
run, And then I guess I'm a

701
00:46:55.400 --> 00:46:59.159
runner so I guess I means I
got to get up a run. There's

702
00:46:59.199 --> 00:47:01.599
something really powerful about that when we
can claim that for ourselves, as you

703
00:47:01.599 --> 00:47:05.639
said earlier, and I think it's
so important for our listeners to get that.

704
00:47:05.679 --> 00:47:07.440
So that's the first thing, if
you don't mind. The second thing

705
00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:09.480
that I want to chime in on
that is, I think I told you

706
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:14.559
when we first spoke that I had
just finished reading Matthew Kelly's book called Perfectly

707
00:47:14.599 --> 00:47:20.519
Yourself and what he really gets at
there's many there's many great takeaways from that

708
00:47:20.519 --> 00:47:23.920
book, but one of them is
is just become the best version of yourself

709
00:47:24.199 --> 00:47:28.800
and that will drive so much of
goodness in your life. It will drive

710
00:47:29.239 --> 00:47:31.280
success and also of course in my
interest, and that's the next thing I

711
00:47:31.320 --> 00:47:36.079
want to talk about. It also
drives purpose and I think that's really really

712
00:47:36.079 --> 00:47:37.920
compelling. So those are a couple
of things that I got from what you

713
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:40.960
just said. There anything you want
to chine back on that, Well,

714
00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:45.800
that raises an interesting point about work. Let's say you you have a job

715
00:47:46.159 --> 00:47:49.840
and there are certain functions you have
to perform, and some of them you

716
00:47:49.880 --> 00:47:52.719
like and some of them you don't
necessarily like. But if you can take

717
00:47:52.719 --> 00:47:54.639
a look at your job and say, Okay, these are the things I

718
00:47:54.679 --> 00:48:00.239
have to do, but what about
these things contribute to either a goal I

719
00:48:00.360 --> 00:48:04.559
have, or a skill I want
to learn, or a way that I

720
00:48:04.599 --> 00:48:07.119
want to help people, or whatever, the things that are important to you.

721
00:48:07.280 --> 00:48:12.920
If you look hard enough, you
can almost always find those avenues where

722
00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:17.639
you can blend a company's goals for
you with your personal goals, especially if

723
00:48:17.639 --> 00:48:22.159
you're in a leadership position, because
if you're a person who just wants to

724
00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:24.960
help people, you know, the
leadership position is the perfect place to do

725
00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:28.760
that because you get to develop people, you get to mentor people, you

726
00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:30.760
get to help them achieve their goals
and dreams, You get to do all

727
00:48:30.760 --> 00:48:36.639
that cool stuff. So in that
setting, even if you are told here's

728
00:48:36.679 --> 00:48:38.400
your job and here are the things
you need to do, if you look

729
00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:44.039
hard at it and find places where
you can express some of your goals and

730
00:48:44.119 --> 00:48:46.719
interests, then like you said,
you get to be a better version of

731
00:48:46.760 --> 00:48:50.760
yourself. At over time, maybe
you get to that place where you are

732
00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:53.559
the best version of yourself, and
that again is a really cool place to

733
00:48:53.559 --> 00:48:58.119
be and you don't have to be
you know, the you don't have to

734
00:48:58.119 --> 00:49:00.440
be in total charge of your everyday
actions in order to pull that off.

735
00:49:02.480 --> 00:49:05.400
You know, it's so great about
this. So when the research that I

736
00:49:05.440 --> 00:49:07.880
did, one of the things I
looked at, Jeff was I looked at

737
00:49:07.000 --> 00:49:10.440
how people experience meaning in their work, and I looked at how it related

738
00:49:10.519 --> 00:49:15.639
to their sense of identity. And
what I found was people could they're the

739
00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:20.119
way they experienced meaning. Their work
could be in sync or resonate with themselves.

740
00:49:20.760 --> 00:49:23.280
It could also be work. It
could be a way to express themselves

741
00:49:23.320 --> 00:49:28.039
and their identities, and work could
be a way to inform their sense of

742
00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:30.039
self. So what I think I
just heard to say there is when people

743
00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:32.440
can kind of find a way to
unite their own purpose with that of their

744
00:49:32.679 --> 00:49:37.079
companies, there's there's some creation that
goes on there. Then that's a that's

745
00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:42.719
an interesting new take there. And
I find that to be another great empowering

746
00:49:42.840 --> 00:49:45.320
tool that you just gave our audience. Right, we can actually co create

747
00:49:45.360 --> 00:49:49.840
that meaning and purpose within our work. Yeah, and you could do it

748
00:49:49.880 --> 00:49:52.320
in a very mundane way if you
take me I right for ink and I

749
00:49:52.440 --> 00:49:57.480
you know, I write about entrepreneurs, small businesses, small business people,

750
00:49:57.599 --> 00:50:00.559
But if you think about that those
are all just people, and so the

751
00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:05.639
subjects you can write about are actually
pretty broad. So I, you know,

752
00:50:05.679 --> 00:50:07.559
I took some time to build up
my base and hopefully build up some

753
00:50:07.639 --> 00:50:10.760
notoriety. And then I looked around
and said, what am I interested in

754
00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:16.360
and what things could I learn about
or experience that readers would also enjoy and

755
00:50:16.440 --> 00:50:21.159
learn from. And so I went
from a guy who was kind of just

756
00:50:21.199 --> 00:50:23.760
writing sort of what I was told
to or you know, stuff that I

757
00:50:23.800 --> 00:50:28.920
thought I should to being able to
look around and say, what, you

758
00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:31.800
know, what's interesting to me and
what will I get out of this too?

759
00:50:31.840 --> 00:50:35.840
And so I've gotten to the school
place where I get to experience things,

760
00:50:36.239 --> 00:50:39.239
see things, talk to really neat
people, learn new stuff. I

761
00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:44.119
get to do all those things.
And it's also my profession to do so.

762
00:50:44.440 --> 00:50:47.760
And while I know that's hard in
some jobs to pull that off,

763
00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:52.719
there are possibilities, I think within
every job to be able to do that.

764
00:50:52.800 --> 00:50:55.920
I long ago worked in manufacturing and
started out at the very lowest level

765
00:50:55.960 --> 00:51:01.079
of a plant and then really liked
a job. But I looked around and

766
00:51:01.119 --> 00:51:05.039
said, okay, but what I
really want to do is I would like

767
00:51:05.119 --> 00:51:07.880
to run a plant someday, So
what do I have to do to get

768
00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:09.719
there? And so the first thing
I did was realized that, Okay,

769
00:51:09.719 --> 00:51:15.440
I gotta get promoted, so I
better be better than everybody else at what

770
00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:17.559
I do. And just committing myself
to saying I'm going to be better than

771
00:51:17.559 --> 00:51:22.400
everybody and I'm going to volunteer for
this stuff nobody volunteers for. I'm going

772
00:51:22.480 --> 00:51:25.639
to do the things that nobody else
wants to do. That was actually really

773
00:51:25.639 --> 00:51:29.519
fulfilling and it set me apart and
it helped me move along. So there,

774
00:51:29.880 --> 00:51:31.800
I guess my point is that there
are all kinds of waste within whatever

775
00:51:31.840 --> 00:51:37.400
your job or role is, that
you can actually find your own purpose and

776
00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:42.079
at the same time accomplished what your
company wants you to accomplish, because you

777
00:51:42.119 --> 00:51:45.320
still have to do that, but
if you can align those then life is

778
00:51:45.320 --> 00:51:50.239
pretty cool. M Well, speaking
of that, Jeff, one of the

779
00:51:50.280 --> 00:51:52.519
things I wanted to be sure and
ask him. We're getting darn close to

780
00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:55.079
having to conclude the show. But
you know, on the heels of talking

781
00:51:55.119 --> 00:52:00.800
about becoming something, you were this
plant manager. You ran this plant for

782
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:04.880
several years, and I've heard you
also say that today your office is your

783
00:52:04.920 --> 00:52:08.119
pack pack I left that phrase.
How did you get into this whole writing

784
00:52:08.119 --> 00:52:14.559
thing anyway? Well, I married
well, and I don't mean in terms

785
00:52:14.599 --> 00:52:20.280
of money necessarily, although I married
well that way too. But I got

786
00:52:20.320 --> 00:52:22.679
tired of manufacturing and I got tired
of that role and wanted to do something

787
00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:25.559
else. And my wife was very
encouraging and said, then what do you

788
00:52:25.599 --> 00:52:29.920
really want to do? And I
decided that I wanted to write, and

789
00:52:29.960 --> 00:52:32.039
I had never really done that,
and I had no credentials that would cause

790
00:52:32.039 --> 00:52:35.199
me to think that I could do
so. And she said, you know

791
00:52:35.199 --> 00:52:37.159
what, tech a year work your
butt off. If you get to the

792
00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:39.400
other end and you don't think there's
a future in this, you can always

793
00:52:39.400 --> 00:52:43.559
go back to what you were doing, but why not try? And so

794
00:52:44.199 --> 00:52:46.519
I knew it wouldn't be easy,
and for a while I did both.

795
00:52:46.559 --> 00:52:50.079
So I would write at night,
I write on the weekends while I still

796
00:52:50.079 --> 00:52:52.719
did my job. Got to a
place where I thought I could give it

797
00:52:52.760 --> 00:52:55.880
a go and did so, and
just committed to if this is going to

798
00:52:55.880 --> 00:53:00.320
work, I have to figure it
out and I have to do what it

799
00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:04.679
takes. And then at some point
you've paid your dues and you can start

800
00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:07.280
to expand and you could do what
I just talked about a little bit ago.

801
00:53:07.039 --> 00:53:09.760
But at first it was just very
much a I'll do anything that I

802
00:53:09.840 --> 00:53:14.320
have to do, and that's a
I don't know. That to me is

803
00:53:14.360 --> 00:53:16.039
a very empowering thing. People look
at a job and they say, Wow,

804
00:53:16.599 --> 00:53:20.519
I don't want to have to do
these things because they're hard, or

805
00:53:20.559 --> 00:53:23.039
I shouldn't have to. If you
flip that around and say, I'm going

806
00:53:23.119 --> 00:53:28.119
to do these things because they are
hard and because I don't have to,

807
00:53:28.719 --> 00:53:30.960
because that will set me apart,
and that will get me skills as other

808
00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:34.800
people don't have, and that will
get me experiences of other people don't have,

809
00:53:34.920 --> 00:53:37.159
and that will make me, like
you said, a better me.

810
00:53:37.840 --> 00:53:40.239
If you flip it around and do
that, and you can go to some

811
00:53:40.360 --> 00:53:44.679
really great places. If you just
get rid of that I shouldn't have to

812
00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:49.280
and flip it around and say,
you know what I want to because nobody

813
00:53:49.320 --> 00:53:53.800
else will, and that will instantly
set you apart. Well, I love

814
00:53:53.840 --> 00:53:58.239
that. I just really quick I
want to comment what you said before,

815
00:53:58.559 --> 00:54:01.599
the importance of association. That being
your wife a high quality person who's actually

816
00:54:02.119 --> 00:54:07.800
encouraging you and twing you in the
debt. Well, my marrying great is

817
00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:10.960
a fantastic thing. I'm marrying so
far over my head. I think that's

818
00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:15.840
fantastic. And the second thing that
you said that's so important is the commitment

819
00:54:15.880 --> 00:54:20.199
piece. Right, once we commit
ourselves to something, there's something about that

820
00:54:20.199 --> 00:54:23.400
that just it pulls for us.
And I think that's really important to be

821
00:54:23.440 --> 00:54:28.800
able to distinguish how when we commit
and really pour ourselves into something we can

822
00:54:29.239 --> 00:54:32.239
start to see some results. Well, i'd like to really briefly, I'd

823
00:54:32.239 --> 00:54:37.599
like to just say that whenever you
try something new that's hard, it's really

824
00:54:37.639 --> 00:54:40.320
hard at first, and it feels
defeating. And so if like we use

825
00:54:40.360 --> 00:54:43.960
my marathon example, if you decide
you want to run a marathon someday,

826
00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:45.840
but you never run, and you
go run that first mile and it's hard,

827
00:54:46.239 --> 00:54:49.800
and you think about running twenty six
and go, wow, I'm just

828
00:54:49.840 --> 00:54:52.440
going to quit. Whenever you try
something new, the commitment you have to

829
00:54:52.480 --> 00:54:54.840
make to yourself is that you're going
to give it, let's say a week

830
00:54:54.920 --> 00:54:59.519
or a week and a half,
and you're going to do whatever your process

831
00:54:59.719 --> 00:55:02.400
is, even if it's hard,
give it that time, because by the

832
00:55:02.519 --> 00:55:05.639
time you get to the end,
of the week or week and a half,

833
00:55:06.159 --> 00:55:09.000
you will see some little improvements that
you will not have seen that first

834
00:55:09.079 --> 00:55:14.119
day or two that will make you
say, hey, wow, I'm better

835
00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:17.079
than I was. This is actually
kind of starting to work. That's really

836
00:55:17.119 --> 00:55:21.679
cool. I've become something that I
was not, even if it's just a

837
00:55:21.679 --> 00:55:24.760
tiny bit. That will then get
you that motivation that you need to keep

838
00:55:24.800 --> 00:55:28.599
going. So whenever you pick up
something new you want to do, you

839
00:55:28.679 --> 00:55:30.679
have to give it at least a
week or a week and a half.

840
00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:35.320
At least commit to that and you
can do anything for a week or a

841
00:55:35.360 --> 00:55:39.440
week and a half. Oh my
god, we can all do that.

842
00:55:39.760 --> 00:55:43.400
You're out of time, so quickly
finish it your thoughts. Sorry, we're

843
00:55:43.440 --> 00:55:45.880
out of time. Go for it
real quick. Oh I was just gonna

844
00:55:45.880 --> 00:55:47.280
say, that's that's what gets you
over that hurdle. So commit to a

845
00:55:47.280 --> 00:55:51.000
week or a week and a half. Pop your head up and realize that,

846
00:55:51.079 --> 00:55:53.039
wow, I've done something really cool. I love that. That is

847
00:55:53.079 --> 00:55:55.679
a great way to finish And Jeff, I have loved every moment of this

848
00:55:55.679 --> 00:55:59.920
conversation. Thank you so much for
being with us. Well, thank you,

849
00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:02.639
I'm just I'm only disappointed this is
over. I'm you too, well,

850
00:56:04.119 --> 00:56:06.360
listeners. If you want to learn
more about Jeff Hayden and all that

851
00:56:06.360 --> 00:56:08.639
he's been up to, visit his
website. It's Jeff Hayden dot com.

852
00:56:08.639 --> 00:56:14.920
So Jeff h A D E n
dot com and join us next week when

853
00:56:14.920 --> 00:56:17.119
we talk with Keemo Kippen, who
was an advocate for lifelong learning and talent

854
00:56:17.159 --> 00:56:21.800
development. He is the former Chief
Learning Officer and Vice President of Global Workforce

855
00:56:21.840 --> 00:56:24.960
Initiatives at Hilton, where he was
responsible for creating lifelong learning solutions for Hilton's

856
00:56:25.039 --> 00:56:29.840
hundreds of thousands of employees worldwide.
We'll be talking about some of the lessons

857
00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:32.840
he's learned in his long, distinguished
career and a few key workforce trends he

858
00:56:32.840 --> 00:56:36.880
thinks are especially important to pay attention
to for all of us. See you

859
00:56:36.880 --> 00:56:38.199
then, remember that work is at
least one third of our life, So

860
00:56:38.320 --> 00:56:49.000
let's work on purpose. We hope
you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure

861
00:56:49.039 --> 00:56:53.280
to tune into Working on Purpose featuring
your host Alice Cortez every Wednesday at six

862
00:56:53.320 --> 00:56:59.679
pm Eastern time freepm Pacific time on
the Voice America Empowerment Channel. This week,

863
00:57:00.039 --> 00:57:10.039
find your life's purpose at work h