What Achievers Teach Us About Motivation

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortes. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working

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on Purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortes. Welcome back to

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the Working on Purpose Show. Thanks
for tuning in again this week. I'm

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your host, Elise Cortez. Joiny
from Dallas, Texas, which is home

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base for me. This program is
all about helping people more meaningfully and productively

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connect with their work and equipping organizations
to do the same for their employees.

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So I bring on guests to a
particular perspective or experience that I think expands

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the conversation, and I often draw
on the meeting and work research I've conducted

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over the last fifteen years, as
well as my own consulting work that I

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do, including the work that I
do today in the CYDNIU, which is

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a global management consulting firm. I'll
get to the program at just a second

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but a big thank you to my
media partner and sponsor, jobbing dot com.

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They are the leading locally focused job
board in the nation and they are

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dedicated to helping employers find quality talent
in their own backyard and giving a jobs

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to christ control of their search they
can find work close to home. Great

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partnership. Thank you jopping dot com. Last week, if you miss the

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show live, you can always catch
the recorded podcast. We are on the

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air with Sean Anderson, who is
a six time motivational author, an inspiring

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keynote speaker, and a result producing
people builder. We talked about how people

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can recreate themselves to live a life
with more passion and work toward greater purpose,

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and it was a timely show given
that many people are working furiously to

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launch their New Year's resolutions, although
Sean says every day is January First.

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With us this week is Jeff Hayden, a speaker, ghost writer, LinkedIn

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influencer, contributing editor of inc Magazine, and the author of the newly released

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The Motivation Myth How high Achievers really
set themselves up to win. We'll be

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talking about what we can learn from
high achievers and famous people about motivation a

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different approach to looking at goals and
how we can infuse more purpose into our

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daily work lives. Jeff joins us
today from Virginia Beach, Virginia, which

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which is where he says it's actually
snowing. Jeff, welcome to working on

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purpose. Oh, thank you,
Elise. This is a highlight of my

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weeknd once we're done talking, it's
all downhill from downhill from here. Unfortunately

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I don't believe a word of that, but I'm glad to hear it.

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Anyway. I'm sincere, Okay,
God, really, I'm really glad to

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talk to you and your audience,
and it's great. So thank you.

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You're welcome. Thank you so much. This particular topic is well one of

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my very, very very favorites.
I've had a lifetime fascination with motivation.

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Jeff, and I, as I
told you when we first spoke, I

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know I'm going to get a ton
out of this conversation. I know our

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listeners will too, but I'm really
riveted on at getting something for myself.

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So let's get into it. So
before we even talk about you and your

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career, and I do want to
hear something about that, let me just

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start by asking The burning question that
most of us probably have is what if

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you learned by talking to famous people
about how they look at motivation and goals?

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All Right, Probably the best way
to illustrate that is I'll use one

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example. I was talking to Venus
Williams, which you know, if you're

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going to drop a name, that's
a good name to drop, and we

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were talking about her career. Most
people know her as a tennis player,

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but she also does a variety of
other things. She runs a design firm,

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she has a fitnesswear company, she's
getting a master's in interior design.

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She has all kinds of interests,
and that basically makes her what I like

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to call a serial achiever, which
we can certainly talk about later. But

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the interesting thing about it is she
does all of these things at an extremely

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high level. But at no point
does she say that she ever had this

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lightning bolt moment where she thought,
Okay, you know, I want to

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be a tennis player, and I
want to be, you know, number

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one in the world and win Grand
slams. She wanted she was interested in

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tennis. Clearly her father got her
and Serena interested in tennis, but it

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was an interest that became a passion
through trying, learning a little bit,

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feeling good about what she learned,
getting a little bit better, feeling good

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about getting better. That motivated her
to want to keep getting better. So

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I thought about that, and I
thought about all the other people that I've

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talked to that are incredibly successful,
and not a single one of them points

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to this one moment that I think
popularly we think people have where it strikes

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them that this is my white life's
work, this is my life's purpose,

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and I will go on for the
next fifty years doing this because I have

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been struck by that lightning bolt.
And I thought that was really interesting because

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if you contrast that to a lot
of the people that I talk to who

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say they feel stuck, or that
they say they haven't really found what it

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is they really want to do that
gives their life purpose and meaning, they're

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waiting for that moment to hit them. And so we can talk about that

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further. But the juxtaposition of that, I think is really interesting because the

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people who have achieved a lot didn't
wait, they just tried something, and

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the people who feel stuck and don't
feel like that they've achieved what they want

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to they're waiting for that to hit
them. Oh Jeff, that is so

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yummy. And yes, I do
want to talk more about that because it

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is smack up my alley of the
kind of work that I've been doing to

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help be able to focus on that
as well. And you're right, I

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think people are waiting and they're hoping
for that lightning bolt that strikes them.

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I think that's exactly right, and
they get frustrated when it doesn't hit them,

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and so the other thing that happens, I'm sorry. The other thing,

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please, is that people always assume, or a lot of people I

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think, assume that whatever they choose, it's this lifelong decision. So if

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I decide I want to be I
don't know, pick something a teacher,

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then I have to be a teacher
for the next forty five years. And

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if I get fifteen years in and
decide I want to do something else,

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then I wasted that first fifteen years, which high achievers don't look at it

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that way. They look at it
as wow, I took this really far.

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I really enjoyed it. I learned
a lot. Now I'm interested in

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whatever else that might be, and
I will bring all of those experiences and

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skills and all of that knowledge with
me to whatever my new pursuit is.

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So there's that idea that I can
only pick one thing, and that's crippling,

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and you know, excuse me.
It kind of makes people paralyzed because

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how do you know that you've picked
the right thing. I also appreciate that

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too, because I do think it
does paralyze people, and people get concerned

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with, wow, how do I
pick the one right thing to do in

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this big old world out there?
Right? And if I get ten years

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into it and now I decide that
I don't really like it anymore, well,

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I'm kind of stuck. But I
don't think you are stuck. I

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think you can be a number of
different things. One of my favorite things

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is to hear people, you know, you hate that question at a party

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where somebody says, what do you
do? You know, that's pretty dull.

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But I love when people say,
well, I'm this, and I'm

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that, and I'm something else.
I love the people that are and because

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that means that you're following several different
things that you're interested in, and they

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all overlap, happ in some way
and cause you to have a richer life

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and in some ways that helps you
blur that whole line between work life balance,

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which you know, I think is
a myth in and of itself.

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It's just life and how you a
portion it is up to you. But

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when you have different interests, you
are much more likely to find one that

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really makes you feel good about yourself
and what you do. Mm hmm yeah.

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And I have just I have to
share, Jeff to that. And

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when I go to any social event, I don't ask anybody what they do,

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because some people don't actually work,
or they don't want to work,

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or they do every thing. So
I've learned to ask what do you pour

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yourself into? Right? And when
I when I ask people that question,

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wow, I get it. Just
I mean all kinds of responses and usually

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a lot of hands like you said, so I like that and indication too

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for me. Well, on the
other side of it is that sometimes what

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you do isn't the thing that defines
you. That's right, that's maybe the

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springboard to what defines you, but
it may not be the central thing that

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defines you. M M. I
know that because of the search that I've

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done, absolutely know that. And
speaking of that, Jeff, I'm very

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curious. I think you are a
very curious person. By the way.

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That's how I talk about you.
How did you get interested in learning about

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motivation in the first place. Uh, that's pretty simple too. The some

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people do big things, some people
try to do big things. But the

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word do is part of it,
because if you're going to achieve something and

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be successful, you have to do
and that usually an external force won't carry

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you through the hard time. So
if you have some external motivation for what

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you're doing, then when times get
tough, it's really easy to bail.

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But if you have found within yourself
what interests you and that spark inside you

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that keeps you going, that's usually
what gets you past the barriers and the

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hurdles and the challenges. And that's
what well, that both that keeps you

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in it for the long haul if
if for no for want of a better

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way to put it, and so
the you know, you can look at

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the end results and say, Wow, this person did X, y Z

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and got to this place. But
I think, and what's really interesting is

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how did they find the effort,
the willpower, the perseverance, the work

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ethic, all of those qualities that
caused them to be able to do X

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Y and Z, and I think
that's you know, that's the start.

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M hm. Well I could tell
a story now, but I won't because

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I want to make sure we have
time for you. But that whole notion

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of intrinsic motivation when nobody has to
okay, nobody has to tell you,

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you know, to do this.
So my quick story is this Jeff So

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years ago, when my daughter was
very young she's now fourteen, her dad

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and I used to talk about,
you know, what kind of work that

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she could do, and he,
as a financial guy, used to say,

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she could do anything she wants to
do as long as she's an investment

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banker or an accounant. And I
was like, ah, you know,

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have you met her. I really
don't think that's to be the right way

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for her to throw her talents into
the world. So how about we just

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kind of observe her first and see
what emerges, and then we'll nurture what

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kind of shows up. Well what
showed up was she wanted to be a

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chef, and so I said,
all right, well, let's get her

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website to get her cards. She
had Gabby's Gastronomy written on her business cards.

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She peddled them door to door.
And the thing that kind of illustrates

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what you're talking about here is that
we would go on vacation, the three

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of us, and she'd be the
first person that got up in the morning,

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like even five o'clock in the morning, back when she was like eight,

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nine, ten, and she would
find a cooking show on TV and

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she'd watched the whole thing, and
then she would take whatever she learned in

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that cooking show and she'd make us
breakfast. So the thing that's beautiful about

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that is that it shows that nobody
had to ask her to do that.

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She would have done that for you
know, if nobody had to asked her

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or even ask her not to do
it, because it was intrinsically motivating to

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her. That is power. I
think when you can really unleash that kind

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of motivation in yourself, it's almost
unstoppable, it seems, and not no

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different. What that actually leads to
is is something that I write about,

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and it's you know, she had
the power of process on her side.

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So, yeah, she wanted to
be a chef, but what one of

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her processes was to watch something,
try to figure it out and absorb it

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and then put it into action,
and if it went well, that's great,

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you feel good about yourself. If
it doesn't go so well, you

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learn from that. But each one
of those successive steps gives you the motivation

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to try again the next day because
you got some feedback from yourself about your

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effort and how you did, and
you got to feel good about the effort

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part. And that's that to me. Is something that sets successful people apart

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oftentimes is that they don't focus necessarily
on the end goal. Like she wanted

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to be a chef, but what
she focused on on a daily basis was

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what process can I follow that will
get me a little bit closer to that

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end goal. And so a lot
of people, I know, they set

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this big goal, but then it's
almost like they forget it. And what

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they do is they focus every day
on the process that they have developed that

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they feel will help get them to
that end goal, because otherwise you're stuck

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with that cost between here and there. If I've never cooked before and I

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want to be a world class chef, you know, the first time I

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try to make scrambled eggs and it
does and go too well, and I

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think about what the world class people
are doing. The distance from here to

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there is way too wide and it's
defeating and it makes you feel bad and

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you give up because wow, how
will I ever do that? But if

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all you're setting out to do today
is learn to make scrambled eggs, so

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no, no, this is a
terrible example. But work with me,

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and you do it better today than
you did yesterday. Then you feel good

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about that. You can move on
to the next day because you accomplished what

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you set out to do today.
And that's really the point. It's not

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to look way out and say how
much farther I have to go. It's

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just to say, hey, I
set out to do these things today,

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I did them. I feel good
about myself. This was a good day.

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I can't wait till tomorrow to have
another good day. I think it's

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just so refreshing to hear you talk
about how you bring this to life for

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people. And I know I've already
I've gotten something from your book already and

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from our first conversation, and I
wanted to also hear you say a little

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bit more. You hinted at it
earlier, but first you know, why

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did you start studying famous people?
How did you get access to them?

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And I know that. You also
told me that they look at motivation and

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goals differently than us. Maybe every
day people do it, and I'd love

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to hear you presence that for us. The well, the part about getting

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access was a process in and of
itself. I write for Ink, but

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I didn't have much of an audience, and so I couldn't get in front

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of those folks. But there was
a certain, for one of a better

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way to put this, there was
a certain level of entrepreneur or athlete or

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entertainer whatever the industry that I could
get in front of. And so if

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I did a good job with talking
to them, getting insights from them,

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creating content that people really liked,
then I had something to show again,

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for one of a better way to
put it, the person that was at

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that next level up. And so
there was just a process. It's like,

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okay, I'm starting here. I
can't get Richard Branson today, but

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I can get these people, and
then if you build a little bit,

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then you can get these people,
and then you can get these people.

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And one day I eventually found myself
in front of Richard Branson and he forced

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me to eat half of his sandwich
because he wanted to eat, and he

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was hungry, but he didn't want
to eat alone, you know, which

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is another story. But it was
a it was a process. But if

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I when I had started, if
I had looked out and said, wow,

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I want to talk to Branson or
Cuban or Venus or you know,

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you name it, I would have
never gotten there because all those doors would

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have been shut to me and I
would have given up. But I just

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focused on, Okay, how do
I build this? And that, to

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me is what really set successful entrepreneurs
apart. If they want to have one

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hundred million dollar business, okay,
can't get that overnight unless you're extremely lucky.

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Well, what you can do is
build your base, keep working your

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way up, keep satisfying customers,
keep growing. It's a process, not

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some overnight success story. Got that
now? You also, and I want

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to hear you if you can distinguish
this because you I talk about this briefly

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in our phone conversation when we first
met. How how do famous people look

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at motivation and goals? How would
you describe that? Is it that process

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you're talking about or is there more
to it? For most of them,

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it's they work backwards. So where
do where do I want to be?

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What? What do I want to
be? At some point? And then

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they work backwards and say, Okay, what have other people done that allowed

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them to get to that point?
And what processes can I adopt? What

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things can I mimic? There are
all these perfectly good wheels out there that

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you don't have to reinvent, you
know, And if you look closely and

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say, okay, if it worked
for this person, then you know I'm

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going to do that, and you
may make some course corrections along the way,

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but you can you can get there
without having to come up with something

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that is totally unique just to you. So that that, to me,

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is probably the biggest difference. They
figure out a goal and then they work

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backwards and say what is involved?
And they don't shy away from the hard

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work that's involved in some of those
steps. I think we've been we've been

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conditioned to a degree to look for
shortcuts and hacks and easy routes to places.

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And maybe that works once in a
while, but usually it only works

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for the person that wrote it.
In large part, the successful people that

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I know out work, outthink,
and out hustle everyone else around them.

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That is the recipe's there's no secret
sauce really, so they're willing to do

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the work. And that's the other
big part of creating a process is you've

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got to say, I'm not going
to put together what I want to do.

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I'm not going to set up a
process that feels good to me.

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I'm going to pick out something that
if I do it, I will get

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there. And then you just sit
down to do the work. And if

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you construct it properly so that you
have little milestones along the way where you

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can enjoy those little successes that help
keep you motivated, then the road doesn't

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seem nearly so long. Mm hmmm. I have to chin in it out

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really quick, Jeff, just because
of the research that I've done and the

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work that I've been doing over the
year is really investing that people find meaning

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in their work and their lives too. Is that when people do work like

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that, when they work really hard
at something and they have something comes to

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pass for that, there's a tremendous
amount of satisfaction in that. And the

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words part of the effort is what
makes for the fulfillment, right exactly?

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Yeah, oh yeah, think about
the best, think about a day lately,

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when you've gone home and you felt
really good about your day, it

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wasn't one where you got lucky.
It wasn't one where a client or an

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opportunity dropped into your lap. I
mean, that's fun. But the days

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where you feel really good is where
you had something challenging that you set out

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to do and you worked hard,
and you worked your way through it and

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you got to the other end and
you did a really good job at it.

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And the fatigue whether mental, physical, emotional, whatever it is that

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you feel at the end that contributes
to that good feeling because you've got that

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yeah, Wow, I worked hard
and I feel good. That's that front

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porch moment where I had a good
day. A good day is not you

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00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:03.640
know, it's great if you get
lucky and get a new customer. It's

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great if you buy a new house, but the new house feeling goes away.

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00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:08.960
But you can experience that wow,
I worked hard and I did what

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I set out to do today.
You can experience that feeling every day,

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00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:18.240
and that's one you get there.
Yes, sir, yes, I know,

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and I know how powerful that is
for fulfillment and satisfaction. I know

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that. Let's talk about this little
bit. We might continue to after the

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00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:27.960
break, but I also know I
want to compare. In contrast, you

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00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:33.200
talked about how famous people look at
motivation, how do us everyday people look

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00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:37.720
at it? What's the difference?
Well, not you, clearly you're not

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00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:44.480
in everything. But if we think
about the let's put me. Let's talk

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about people like me. Although hopefully
I don't fall into this either. It's

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they think of motivation again, like
I talked about early on, it's something

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00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:56.960
that you get from somewhere. Somehow, something happens that causes you to be

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motivated, whether it's an outside force, whether it's that lightning bolt I talked

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00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:06.759
about, something there is something outside
of you gives you motivation. And the

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00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:10.680
flip side of that for successful people
or highly successful people, is they see

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00:19:10.759 --> 00:19:12.960
motivation as something they can create.
And again I'm not going to be labor

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00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:18.279
the point, but it goes back
to that I will be motivated if I

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have a plan, work my plan, enjoy a small success from my plan,

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00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:26.519
feel good about that. That makes
me happy. We all love to

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00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:30.359
be happy. We all love to
feel good about ourselves, and that motivates

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00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:33.480
you to get up the next day
and just do the next day. It

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00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:36.720
doesn't have to carry you through an
entire year or a decade. It just

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00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:38.359
has to carry you through the next
day. And if you have those little

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successes from working hard and feeling good
about yourself, you have an endless supply

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of motivation. You don't need a
well spring of it, You just need

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little drips that you create. So
the bottom line is you can create your

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own motivation. You don't have to
wait to get it. Oh, I

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think I hope that our listeners find
that incredibly heartening. I hope that they

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do. I certainly do, and
I understand that. But the way you

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00:20:04.039 --> 00:20:08.480
presence that gives us such access to
it, Jeff, it's fantastic, It's

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very It's actually an empowering thought because
you don't have to wait for it.

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Yes, you can do it yourself. You create it yourself. And that's

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what I That's one of my big
things is empowering people. So part of

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00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:23.240
the reason I like to host the
show is I'm trying to empower my audience

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to be able to go after the
life and work that they really want.

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00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:29.759
So that was a gem. And
with that, hold your thought for to

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00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:32.599
second, Jeff, it's time for
our first break, I'm your host,

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00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:34.839
Alisee Cortes. We've been on the
air with Jeff Hayden, the author of

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00:20:34.880 --> 00:20:40.079
the newly released The Motivation Myth How
high inteers really set themselves up to.

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00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:42.440
When you joined today from Virginia Beach, Virginia, we've been talking a bit

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00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:47.759
about how famous people look at motivation
in contrast to the everyday people like us.

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00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:49.960
After the break, we'll get more
into goal setting and other things.

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00:20:51.039 --> 00:21:07.240
Stay with us. We'll be right
back. Freend us on Facebook to keep

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00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:14.240
up with what's empowering the world.
Voice America Empowerment Alice Cortes is a speaker

331
00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:18.839
and engagement and development catalyst. She
designs and delivers professional development, leadership and

332
00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:23.839
engagement workshops and can bring her expertise
to your organization. She will help ignite

333
00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:30.359
meaningful development within your workforce that will
increase employee engagement, performance and retention.

334
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:33.640
To learn more or to invite Elise
to speak to your organization, please visit

335
00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:40.319
her at www dot Elisecortes dot com. She would welcome the opportunity to help

336
00:21:40.359 --> 00:21:45.319
get your employees working on purpose.
Have you friended us on Facebook yet?

337
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Why not? Just go to Facebook
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for the keywords Voice America. Once
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voice to the always active discussions on
our wall. Just go to Facebook dot

342
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com, forward, slash Voice America
or search for Voice America. It's time

343
00:22:10.119 --> 00:22:14.319
to live the life of inner peace
that you deserve. Tune in every week

344
00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:19.039
for sacred Exploration with host Lisa tremont
Oda. You can discover the you that

345
00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:23.000
has been kept hidden all this time, show off your personal gifts to the

346
00:22:23.039 --> 00:22:27.720
world. Lisa and her guests will
combine health and spirituality to bring you the

347
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:33.400
experience that you've been waiting for.
You'll enjoy this journey every Wednesday at five

348
00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:37.480
pm Pacific Time and eight pm Eastern
Time on the Voice America Empowerment Channel.

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00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:45.680
It's sure to be a nourishing experience. It's your world. Motivate, change,

350
00:22:45.799 --> 00:23:02.319
succeed Voice America Empowerment dot Com.
This is working on purpose with Elise

351
00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:06.559
Cortes. To reach our program today, please call in to one triple eight

352
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three four six nine one four one. Again, that's one triple eight three

353
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four six nine one four one.
You may also send an email to Elise

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00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:26.400
ali Se at elisecortes dot com.
Now back to Working on Purpose. Thanks

355
00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:30.079
for staying with us, and welcome
back to Working on Purpose if you're just

356
00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:33.200
joining us. My guest is Jeff
Hayden, who is a speaker, ghostwriter,

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00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:37.640
LinkedIn influencer, contributing editor of INC
magazine, and the author of the

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00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:41.599
newly released The Motivation Myth How high
Achievers really set themselves up to win.

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00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:45.079
I'm your host, Elise Cortes,
So Jeff. Before the break, we

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00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:48.319
were talking a lot about the contrast
between how famous high achieving people look at

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00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:52.880
motivation and goals and how the rest
of us do. I wanted if we

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00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:55.759
could next talk a little bit more. You already talked a bit about this

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00:23:55.960 --> 00:23:59.359
notion of how we set goals and
then forgetting them, and then also some

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00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:02.440
process around on that. But because
I know many of our listeners have just

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00:24:02.640 --> 00:24:07.839
come off come off of fresh work
of creating resolutions, they're thinking about goals.

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00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:11.440
This is really firm in their mind. Can you say a bit more

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00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:15.440
about both of those topics about setting
a goal and forget and then that cross

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00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:21.119
process creation that you already alluded to
before. Sure, here's an example.

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00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:26.480
Last not last year, the year
before. I decided to prove that well,

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00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:29.640
let me, let me take a
step back. One of the chapters

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00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:32.599
in my book is work your Number, and it's basically a way to create

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00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:36.759
a process that is numbers based,
where you do something a certain number of

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00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:40.079
times and over time that will lead
you to a certain result. So it

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00:24:40.119 --> 00:24:42.839
becomes very simple and it's math and
time related. So to prove that that

375
00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:47.799
would work even in the silliest of
pursuits, I decided that I wanted to

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00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:51.759
do one hundred thousand push ups in
a year. There's no you know,

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00:24:51.799 --> 00:24:55.039
there's no carrot at the end of
that. It's just something I decided I

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00:24:55.079 --> 00:24:56.240
wanted to do. So I broke
that down and said, okay, that

379
00:24:56.319 --> 00:25:00.519
adds up to three hundred and seventy
four push ups a day. As long

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00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:03.240
as I do the three seventy four
every day, then at the end of

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00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:07.319
the year, I get to one
hundred thousand. Now, clearly that's kind

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00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:11.400
of a goofy goal, and I'll
be the first to admit that but that

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00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:15.680
what that kind of takes you to
is I was talking to two ladies that

384
00:25:15.759 --> 00:25:18.960
started a business and they were trying
to get new customers and they were complaining

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00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:23.039
that it took them, you know, five or six cold calls to land

386
00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:26.960
every new customer that they got.
And they were like, you know that

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00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:29.960
it takes so long, it's so
much effort. We're not getting much of

388
00:25:29.960 --> 00:25:30.599
a return. And I said,
well, how many do you need a

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00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:33.200
month? And they said, well, for the next few months, if

390
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:38.079
we can get you know, ten
new customers, then we're good. If

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00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:41.559
we get ten per month, and
I said, well, then, you

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00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:42.880
know, it's pretty simple what you
have to do. You just have to

393
00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:47.759
figure out a way to make fifty
or sixty cold calls every month and you'll

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00:25:47.799 --> 00:25:49.400
get your ten. And they kind
of looked at me like I was stupid,

395
00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:52.039
but I said, you know,
think about it. If your strike

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00:25:52.160 --> 00:25:59.119
rate is fairly consistent then and you
have to have those that number of new

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00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:03.440
customers, then that needs to be
your mission and you need to figure out

398
00:26:03.440 --> 00:26:07.559
a way to pull that off.
Yes, you can spend time as you

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00:26:07.599 --> 00:26:10.640
go along trying to refine your pitch, and you can try to get better

400
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:12.960
and you can try to improve so
that hopefully that return rate is better.

401
00:26:14.440 --> 00:26:17.319
But you know what you need to
do, And so tie that back to

402
00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:19.079
my pushups. If I know I
want to do one hundred thousand push ups,

403
00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:22.720
then I know I need to do
three seventy four a day. So

404
00:26:23.319 --> 00:26:26.680
to take that to some other place, now, to go to that kind

405
00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:30.799
of forget your goal. If on
January first, I do three hundred and

406
00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:33.960
seventy four push ups and I pop
my head up like a gopher and look

407
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:38.519
out into the distance and see that
I've still got ninety nine thousand. You

408
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:42.920
know what, six hundred and some
left. I'm going to quit because that

409
00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:47.960
is way too far. But if
that's all I have to do today,

410
00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:52.799
then I've accomplished that I check the
box off. Like Jerry Seinfeld has this

411
00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:56.880
calendar where he writes, he still
tries to write a good joke every day,

412
00:26:56.920 --> 00:26:59.480
and when he does, he checks
it off his calendar and he doesn't

413
00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:03.599
stop until he does, and over
time he builds up this repertoire. Over

414
00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:07.920
time, I can build up a
lot of push ups, and over time,

415
00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:11.759
the two ladies that I was talking
about builds up a client base.

416
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:15.759
So it's the ideas that you figure
out a process that if you follow it

417
00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:21.200
and you know that it's going to
give you a certain return, all it

418
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:25.119
is is time. And as long
as you can forget the distance and how

419
00:27:25.160 --> 00:27:27.160
far you really have to go and
just focus on the chunk that you need

420
00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:32.880
to do this day, this week, whatever, then it's just time and

421
00:27:32.920 --> 00:27:37.839
effort. And so many things in
our lives are actually based on a certain

422
00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:41.079
amount of effort and a certain amount
of time and a whole lot of perseverance.

423
00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:45.079
And so if you can stay the
course, you can get to that

424
00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:49.160
other place. Okay, that was
Chris, and I was actually just heading

425
00:27:49.160 --> 00:27:52.720
toward that very word that you use, chunk, And I think that makes

426
00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:55.839
so much sense if you can just
say this is whatever allotted to do today

427
00:27:55.880 --> 00:27:59.319
that I have to get done in
pursuit of my overall, big, hairy

428
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:02.519
goal, and this is all I
have to do, and you do it.

429
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:07.119
I really see the magic in that, Jeff, especially in the consistency.

430
00:28:08.359 --> 00:28:11.960
Within our firm. We talk a
lot about doing the push ups right

431
00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:15.240
as just as you were doing literally
doing the pushups related to whatever it is

432
00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:19.319
that we set out to achieve for
ourselves. And so I think that makes

433
00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:23.279
that That's a really nice way to
presence that whole process aspect you were talking

434
00:28:23.319 --> 00:28:26.799
about. So thank you for that. I know you felt like we had

435
00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:29.319
really talked about it, and we
had, but I knew for our listeners

436
00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:33.240
there was more we could give them
some great Well. The cool part about

437
00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:37.920
that is if you do that once, then that goes into your tool kit,

438
00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:41.079
and that goes into your reserve of
wow, I know how that works.

439
00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:42.759
And so if you do that once
with something, and you have some

440
00:28:42.920 --> 00:28:48.599
other pursuit that you're interested in,
and you break it down into those kinds

441
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:52.920
of chunks, then you have the
confidence from the last time that you could

442
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:56.440
say, you know what I've done
that before, I know how that works.

443
00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:59.799
If I do these things, I
will get there. And every time

444
00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:03.039
you do that, then it becomes
clearer to you and it becomes simpler to

445
00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:07.920
embark upon it because you've got that
confidence of you know what I've done that,

446
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:14.279
I know that works. I still
I'm still a I don't know I

447
00:29:14.359 --> 00:29:17.480
say this. I'm a casual cyclist. For a while, I was very

448
00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:22.119
into riding bikes that I would ride
Grand Fondo's that were like one hundred miles

449
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:26.400
four mountains stuff like that. I
know now from having trained for those kinds

450
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:30.960
of things, that if I want
to go and do one of those,

451
00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:33.720
I need to put about twenty five
hundred miles in my legs. For one

452
00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:36.640
of A better way to put it, I need to go out and over

453
00:29:36.680 --> 00:29:40.559
a period of time right enough,
within a certain window that I get about

454
00:29:40.599 --> 00:29:42.000
twenty five hundred miles in me And
if I do that, I will be

455
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:45.599
in good enough shape that I can
knock that grand Fondo off. And so

456
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:49.440
while that seems kind of daunting,
it's actually very empowering. It makes you

457
00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:53.160
feel confident because like, I know
how to do this. All I have

458
00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:57.559
to do is do the work.
And sometimes that's the scary thing for people

459
00:29:57.640 --> 00:30:00.920
is they think, well, if
I do all of the work and I

460
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:03.519
don't get any return, then while
I'm going to feel like I wasted that,

461
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:07.519
and so it makes you not want
to start. So again, the

462
00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:11.480
trick is, and I feel sure
we're going to talk about this later when

463
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:14.400
we talk about UH. I think
people should look for pros, not for

464
00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:18.519
coaches. But my next question is
to go out and look at something where

465
00:30:18.960 --> 00:30:22.319
you can say you know what that
process works. I know it works.

466
00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:25.920
I just have to apply myself to
it. And if you do that once

467
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:30.000
or twice, you will never look
at things the same way again because you

468
00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:33.440
know how to do it, and
best of all, you know you can

469
00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:37.480
do it. Mm hmmm. Yes, And I really appreciate that you talked

470
00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:41.039
about confidence, and I did want
to see if you could say a little

471
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:44.079
bit more about just how you know, in terms of the other ingredients you've

472
00:30:44.119 --> 00:30:47.079
been talking about, the other pointers
you've given us about how to how to

473
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:51.279
create motivation for ourselves. You know, how to be able to set you

474
00:30:51.319 --> 00:30:53.640
know, work from the numbers,
if you will. I'm really interested to

475
00:30:53.720 --> 00:30:59.200
understand to what extent or what weight
would you give confidence in being able to

476
00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:03.880
work toward a chieve How important is
that? Well? The paradox with confidence

477
00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:08.200
is if you feel like you haven't
really done anything that's super hard and achieved

478
00:31:08.279 --> 00:31:12.519
something that is hard to achieve,
then you don't really have that that inner

479
00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:17.039
confidence that says, wow, I
can actually do that, So you have

480
00:31:17.119 --> 00:31:21.079
to take that leap of faith.
The cool part about it is if you

481
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:26.720
scratch the surface of anybody who has
done really big things, they all were

482
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:30.839
you at one point. Yeah,
they're all unsure, hesitant, and I've

483
00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:34.119
got this story. There's I don't
know if anybody in your audience is a

484
00:31:34.359 --> 00:31:38.359
NASCAR fan, but car racing.
But there's a there's a guy know that

485
00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:42.960
he right, He runs in a
series right below the cup level, so

486
00:31:44.119 --> 00:31:47.119
he's, you know, one of
the top let's say, one hundred drivers

487
00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:49.640
in the country. First time he
went to a really big track in a

488
00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:53.279
truck race, he had never been
on. It was actually in Texas now

489
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:56.519
that I think about it, And
so it's this big mile and a half

490
00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:00.359
track two hundred miles an hour down
the straightaways. They told him the truck

491
00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:02.920
would it was he didn't have to
lift, he didn't have to get off

492
00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:07.440
the accelerator, and the truck would
be fine, and the turns went down

493
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:10.039
into the turn the first time lifted, couldn't do it. He thought,

494
00:32:10.039 --> 00:32:13.240
oh man, I'm going to hit
the wall. He didn't, goes around

495
00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:16.519
again, involuntarily picks his foot up
again. So here's a guy who's a

496
00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:22.920
very accomplished race car driver who doesn't
have the confidence in the car or himself

497
00:32:22.960 --> 00:32:25.079
to let it go. And so
the next time he actually took one hand

498
00:32:25.119 --> 00:32:30.640
off the wheel and held his leg
down so he would keep the accelerator to

499
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:34.440
the floor so that he would go
through the turn. And so you don't

500
00:32:34.519 --> 00:32:39.880
think of a guy like that not
having that confidence. But everybody has that

501
00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:45.359
problem. The only difference is the
people that achieve go ahead and say,

502
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:46.680
you know what, I'm going to
try it. If I don't get there,

503
00:32:46.799 --> 00:32:52.480
it's okay, but I would rather
know I tried than know that I

504
00:32:52.519 --> 00:32:58.599
didn't try and wonder what could have
been so long, answer short, you

505
00:32:58.759 --> 00:33:00.400
have to go ahead and try.
But if you look for a process that

506
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:04.799
you know works for other people,
that does at least give you the confidence

507
00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:07.960
that if you try, you can
probably get there too. And then once

508
00:33:07.000 --> 00:33:12.599
you've done that one hard thing,
man, you're ready to roll because the

509
00:33:12.680 --> 00:33:15.400
next time you can apply one thing, even if it's in a totally different

510
00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:21.279
field, to something else and say, well, I did this, shoot,

511
00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:23.200
I can do that. And then
you get two of those under your

512
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:27.839
belt, and all of a sudden, challenges just become which one do I

513
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:31.400
want to pick? It doesn't become
which one do I think I can accomplish?

514
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:35.799
It becomes which one from the menu
items do I want to pick?

515
00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:38.160
Because I know I can do that? And that is a really cool place

516
00:33:38.200 --> 00:33:44.200
to be in your life. Yes, it is sounds fantastic. Well,

517
00:33:44.200 --> 00:33:45.680
and maybe this is related. And
you and I talked about this briefly on

518
00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:49.880
the phone, and you alluded to
it earlier. I'm curious if this is

519
00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:52.400
related to what you were talking about. You have you said before that people

520
00:33:52.440 --> 00:33:54.759
don't need a coach, they need
a pro and then you said, I

521
00:33:54.799 --> 00:34:00.000
hope you don't coach, Julie.
I do. But what do you mean

522
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:04.079
I mean by that they need a
pro? All right, it depends on

523
00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:07.079
that. That's a sweeping statement,
first of all, and it's supposed to

524
00:34:07.119 --> 00:34:09.480
be kind of eye catching. But
the point of that is, let's say

525
00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:14.360
that you decide, I don't know, Let's say that your New year's resolution

526
00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:15.360
was that you want to get in
better shape. First of all, that's

527
00:34:15.400 --> 00:34:19.760
a terrible resolution because what does get
in better shape mean? There's no way

528
00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:22.159
to quantify that, and when you
can't quantify your goal, it's really hard

529
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:25.800
to work towards your goal. But
let's say that you decide that this year

530
00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:30.079
you want to run a marathon,
and you go to your local gym and

531
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:31.000
there's a trainer there, and you
say, hey, I want to run

532
00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:34.599
a marathon, and so they're going
to go through this assessment of where you

533
00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:37.880
are and what your interests are and
what your fitness level is and all this

534
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:43.039
stuff, and you're going to end
up with a program that is sugarcoated for

535
00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:47.079
you as opposed to the cold hard
facts of if you want to do this

536
00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:52.280
thing, this is what you have
to do. The first time that I

537
00:34:52.280 --> 00:34:54.719
I rode one of those grand fondos, I decided to do it, and

538
00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:59.159
I had four months to train,
and so I went to a local gaves

539
00:34:59.159 --> 00:35:01.760
of professional mountain biker and he'd been
a national champion and won the Pan American

540
00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:04.760
Games and all stuff, and I
said, I want to write this grand

541
00:35:04.760 --> 00:35:07.280
fondo. We only have four months
and I've never really written. And he

542
00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:09.320
laughed and he said, well you
can't, and I said, no,

543
00:35:09.400 --> 00:35:13.239
I really want to try. He
said, okay, if you're going to

544
00:35:13.280 --> 00:35:15.119
do that, here's what you have
to do. And my first day of

545
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:20.280
training was to go out and ride
for three hours. And this is you

546
00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:23.400
know, I hadn't written for more
than ten minutes. So that wasn't what

547
00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:28.360
I wanted to hear, but it
was what I needed to do. And

548
00:35:28.440 --> 00:35:30.800
so that kind of is. My
point with that is, if you go

549
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:35.920
to someone and ask for advice or
guidance, the people you want to talk

550
00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:38.559
to are the people that have done
that and have worked through the obstacles and

551
00:35:38.599 --> 00:35:43.199
worked through the problems and figured out
how to get to where you want to

552
00:35:43.239 --> 00:35:47.719
go, so that they can tell
you very clearly, here's what you have

553
00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:51.840
to do. Because if you're going
to do something hard, if you're going

554
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:54.639
to accomplish something big, there's a
lot of hard work involved. So would

555
00:35:54.639 --> 00:36:00.280
you rather take the easier path that
is not likely to get you where you

556
00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:02.599
want to be and waste what effort
you do put into it, or would

557
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:07.920
you rather take the harder path that
isn't going to be as fun but is

558
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:12.199
almost certainly going to get you to
where you want to go? And to

559
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:15.679
me, that's a really really clear
choice. And that's the difference between people

560
00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:20.480
who just kind of gently coach you
and the people who sit you down and

561
00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:23.559
they're very honest and forthright and professional
and nice about it, but clear in

562
00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:27.199
that if you want to do this, here's what you need to do.

563
00:36:28.199 --> 00:36:31.719
Yeah, And so how I tread
that together. Something else you said earlier,

564
00:36:32.199 --> 00:36:37.079
Jeff, is that you're basically that
pro that you're engaging is the future

565
00:36:37.159 --> 00:36:39.880
that you want to work backwards from. They represent and know that future that

566
00:36:39.920 --> 00:36:44.280
you want to work backwards from.
Yeah, yep, And hopefully we'll talk

567
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:49.199
about that later because that person has
become what it is that you would like

568
00:36:49.320 --> 00:36:52.519
to become, which is where your
life I think, really takes on greater

569
00:36:52.679 --> 00:36:58.760
meaning and purpose and fulfillment when you've
become Yeah, we got you just a

570
00:36:58.800 --> 00:37:01.079
couple of its before we go on
to our next and final break, And

571
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:05.840
I do want to talk about that
because it gets to identity. But and

572
00:37:05.960 --> 00:37:09.559
identity has been something that I've been
investigating for a lot of years in relation

573
00:37:09.639 --> 00:37:13.880
to the meaning and work stuff.
So I definitely want to spend some time

574
00:37:13.920 --> 00:37:15.400
chatting about that. But just really
quick, before we go on break,

575
00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:19.000
say a little bit about that to
kind of cue us up and they will

576
00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:21.400
get it. Get more into it
after the break, if you would please,

577
00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:24.239
Jeff, all right, how can
I be brief? Because I've clearly

578
00:37:24.280 --> 00:37:34.239
shown no ability to do so you
can do it. The idea for most

579
00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:37.920
of the successful people that I've talked
to, they don't see themselves as people

580
00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:44.000
who do things anymore. They see
themselves. Who are those things? So

581
00:37:44.199 --> 00:37:47.400
Kirk Hammitt's the Metallica guitarist. He
started out and this is what he will

582
00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:52.760
say. He started out being a
guy who played guitar. Now he is

583
00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:55.800
a musician. He thinks of himself
as a musician, He sees himself as

584
00:37:57.039 --> 00:38:00.599
a part of the musician community,
and it is become part of his identity.

585
00:38:01.159 --> 00:38:06.000
And we'll talk about this after your
break. But the cool thing about

586
00:38:06.039 --> 00:38:09.400
that is when something becomes your identity, that is almost like you don't need

587
00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:13.719
motivation to do it because it has
become part of who you are. And

588
00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:16.559
probably the best example for that is
if you're a parent, do you need

589
00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:20.719
motivation to take care of your kids? You know? Do you need them

590
00:38:20.760 --> 00:38:22.760
to be motivated to get them out
of bed in the morning and take care

591
00:38:22.800 --> 00:38:25.760
of them? Now that's what you
do. You're a parent. You're not

592
00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:31.039
a person who parents, You are
a parent. And so if that is

593
00:38:31.079 --> 00:38:36.760
foreshadowing enough that I think is a
really important thing for people where you actually

594
00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:39.000
get to the place where you don't
need motivation. Mm hmmm. I think

595
00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:42.760
that's a great cliffhanger. Hold that
thought, Jef, because I'll chime into

596
00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:45.719
it as well, time for a
break. I'm your host, Alice Cortes.

597
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:46.880
We went on the air with Jeff
Hayden, who is the author of

598
00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:51.960
the newly released The Motivation Myth How
high Achieves really set themselves up to win.

599
00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:54.079
He joined us today from Virginia Beach, Virginia. After the break,

600
00:38:54.119 --> 00:38:58.960
we'll hear more about this whole notion
of becoming versus doing. Stay with us,

601
00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:13.960
We'll be right back. Friend us
on Facebook to keep up with what's

602
00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:21.320
empowering the world. Voice America Empowerment
Alis Cortes is a speaker and engagement and

603
00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:27.440
development catalyst. She designs and delivers
professional development, leadership and engagement workshops and

604
00:39:27.480 --> 00:39:31.280
can bring her expertise to your organization. She will help ignite meaningful development within

605
00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:37.360
your workforce that will increase employee engagement, performance and retention. To learn more

606
00:39:37.599 --> 00:39:42.119
or to invite Elise to speak to
your organization, please visit her at www

607
00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:46.480
dot Elisecortes dot com. She would
welcome the opportunity to help get your employees

608
00:39:46.719 --> 00:39:52.880
working on purpose. We're making it
easier to listen to the Voice America Talk

609
00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:55.880
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610
00:39:55.880 --> 00:40:00.400
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611
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612
00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:09.559
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614
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615
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617
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618
00:40:46.679 --> 00:40:53.280
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619
00:40:59.119 --> 00:41:16.880
use Follow us on Twitter for more
great ideas at Voice America Empowerment. This

620
00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:22.039
is Working on Purpose with Elise Cortes. To reach our program today, please

621
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:27.880
call in to one triple eight three
four six nine one four one again that's

622
00:41:27.920 --> 00:41:31.239
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one four one. You may also send

623
00:41:31.280 --> 00:41:38.039
an email to Elise A. L
i Se at Elisecortes dot com. Now

624
00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:45.199
back to Working on Purpose. Thanks
for staying with us and welcome back to

625
00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:49.360
working on Purpose if you're just tuning
in. My guest is Jeff Hayden,

626
00:41:49.360 --> 00:41:52.199
who as a speaker, ghost writer, LinkedIn, influencer, contributing editor of

627
00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:55.880
INC Magazine, and the author of
the newly released the Motivation Myth, How

628
00:41:55.960 --> 00:42:00.039
high achievers really set themselves up to
win? I'm your home to least Cortes.

629
00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:02.400
So before the break, Jeff,
you and I were chatting a bit

630
00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:08.360
about this notion of distinguishing not doing
something but actually actually becoming something, and

631
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:13.440
I told you I was going to
share. I've got two takes. There's

632
00:42:13.480 --> 00:42:15.760
many things I could say about that
for myself, but one of them is

633
00:42:15.800 --> 00:42:20.519
that over the years, I've been
saying that I have been doing this activity

634
00:42:20.559 --> 00:42:22.599
called research. I've been doing this
thing where I've been investigating how people find

635
00:42:22.639 --> 00:42:25.719
meaning in their work as it related
to their sense of self. Well,

636
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:32.000
now I've come to recognize I've become
and am further becoming a social scientist.

637
00:42:32.119 --> 00:42:37.119
So that's what I say. Now
I'm a social scientist. And I used

638
00:42:37.119 --> 00:42:40.239
to also say that I did consulting
work. I did organizational consulting, etc.

639
00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:44.679
That's what I did for work.
And really now I see myself.

640
00:42:44.719 --> 00:42:47.960
I'm a management consult and that's who
I am. And there's something that's very

641
00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:53.280
distinguishing about how you show up when
you're in that different space. Can you

642
00:42:53.280 --> 00:42:59.639
say a little bit more about that? Sure, those are perfect examples.

643
00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:02.400
I'll do one that's not professional when
and I'll do the bike thing again.

644
00:43:02.440 --> 00:43:06.159
When I first started riding bikes,
I felt like a guy who was out

645
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:08.280
riding bikes. But I worked at
it some got a little fitter, got

646
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:10.639
a little bit, got in a
little better shape. Finally went on a

647
00:43:10.719 --> 00:43:14.960
ride with a few other people.
Felt really awkward and out of place and

648
00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:19.039
like I didn't belong. But in
time, as I got a little better,

649
00:43:19.320 --> 00:43:21.840
I started to say, wait a
minute, I'm you know, I'm

650
00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:25.159
part of this. They accepted me
as part of their group. I became

651
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:30.599
a cyclist, not not a professional, but a cyclist nonetheless not a guy

652
00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:35.320
who rode bikes. And that is
a huge thing in terms of confidence and

653
00:43:35.360 --> 00:43:40.559
feeling of community and identity. And
you mentioned research. There's this cool study

654
00:43:40.840 --> 00:43:47.360
that some researchers did where they took
three groups of people and they they wanted

655
00:43:47.360 --> 00:43:52.119
them to start a fitness program,
and so they gave two of the groups

656
00:43:52.119 --> 00:43:55.679
of coping strategy if they felt like
their willpower was flagging and they didn't want

657
00:43:55.679 --> 00:44:00.239
to work out today. One group
was told to say, I can't to

658
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:02.719
miss the workout, another group was
told to say, I don't miss the

659
00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:07.400
workouts, and the per group was
told nothing. They had no coping strategy.

660
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:12.320
So at the end of this period, what's funny about it is that

661
00:44:12.519 --> 00:44:17.159
eight out of ten of the people
that were I don't stuck with the program,

662
00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:22.360
three out of ten of the people
that had no coping strategy whatsoever stuck

663
00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:25.719
with the program, and only one
out of ten of the I can't stuck

664
00:44:25.719 --> 00:44:30.599
with the program. And it leads
to you to an interesting conclusion because when

665
00:44:30.599 --> 00:44:34.519
you say I can't, what you're
really doing is opening up a negotiation with

666
00:44:34.599 --> 00:44:38.039
yourself, you know, like I
can't have that, Well I kind of

667
00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:42.320
could, you know, because tomorrow
if I work out, or tomorrow if

668
00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:45.119
I don't do this or don't do
that, And so suddenly you have to

669
00:44:45.199 --> 00:44:50.679
use willpower in order to push aside
that piece of cake. Whereas if you

670
00:44:50.760 --> 00:44:52.880
say, you know, I don't
eat dessert, let's just use that as

671
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:57.199
an example, Well, then it's
an identity thing. Then it's who you

672
00:44:57.320 --> 00:45:00.400
are. So it's like, do
parents have to say I don't neglect my

673
00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:06.400
kids, Well, hopefully not,
but that's an identity thing. Or if

674
00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:10.719
it's a boss and you say,
you know, I don't treat my employees

675
00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:15.960
poorly, Okay, not that I
can't, but I don't, or I

676
00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:19.440
don't ask acton ethically or I don't
whatever it is. If it's a don't,

677
00:45:19.880 --> 00:45:22.880
what you're saying is that's not who
I am, and that's an identity

678
00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:27.840
thing, and that means you have
become that. And so that whole process

679
00:45:27.920 --> 00:45:30.760
is really cool of becoming because if
you're first put into a leadership position and

680
00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:35.880
you're a supervisor for a while,
you're a person who supervises, but at

681
00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:38.480
some point, if you work at
it and gain some skill and experience,

682
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:43.440
you become a leader and you see
yourself as a leader. And then if

683
00:45:43.480 --> 00:45:46.400
you go into other roles, you
feel confident because while you may not know

684
00:45:46.639 --> 00:45:51.400
the functions, you know how to
lead and you are a leader. So

685
00:45:51.519 --> 00:45:55.320
that whole idea of becoming is a
really powerful thing. And what's cool about

686
00:45:55.360 --> 00:46:00.760
it is that you can become anything
you want as long as as you were

687
00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:04.480
back to process again, but if
you follow a process that allows you to

688
00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:07.800
gain some skill and some achievement,
you wake up one day and you realize

689
00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:12.800
that, hey, I have become
this thing, and that is a huge

690
00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:15.840
source of motivation because it's fun to
be that and at some point you don't

691
00:46:15.880 --> 00:46:20.480
even think about it. It's just
what you do. Mm hmm. I

692
00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:22.800
gotta chime in with two things on
that really delicious conversation there, Jeff,

693
00:46:22.840 --> 00:46:28.079
thank you first, Because I have
been studying identity for a long time.

694
00:46:28.199 --> 00:46:31.400
I know the process, I know
the formulation aspects of an identity, and

695
00:46:31.480 --> 00:46:36.400
I know the function of it.
One of the major functions of identity is

696
00:46:36.440 --> 00:46:40.039
it drives behavior. And that's why
it's so powerful, and that's what you're

697
00:46:40.039 --> 00:46:44.760
getting at right. It drives behavior. So I think of myself as a

698
00:46:44.840 --> 00:46:46.800
runner. Well, if I'm a
runner, that means, whether I want

699
00:46:46.840 --> 00:46:50.840
to really or not, I'm going
to get up on Tuesday, Thursdays and

700
00:46:50.840 --> 00:46:54.000
Saturday mornings and I'm going to run
because that's who I am. Yeah,

701
00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:57.320
I'm runners run and I guess I'm
a runner, so I guess I means

702
00:46:57.320 --> 00:47:00.000
I got to get up a run. There's something really powerful about that.

703
00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:02.679
When we can claim that for ourselves, as you said earlier, and I

704
00:47:02.719 --> 00:47:06.440
think that's so important for our listeners
to get that. So that's the first

705
00:47:06.440 --> 00:47:08.119
thing, if you don't mind.
The second thing that I want to chinmee

706
00:47:08.159 --> 00:47:10.920
in on that is I think I
told you when we first spoke that I

707
00:47:10.920 --> 00:47:16.079
had just finished reading Matthew Kelly's book
called Perfectly Yourself and what he really gets

708
00:47:16.119 --> 00:47:21.280
at there's many there's many great takeaways
from that book, but one of them

709
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:27.039
is is just become the best version
of yourself and that will drive so much

710
00:47:27.039 --> 00:47:30.119
of goodness in your life. It'll
drive success and also of course in my

711
00:47:30.199 --> 00:47:32.679
interest, and that's the next thing
I want to talk about. It also

712
00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:37.960
drives purpose and I think that's really
really compelling. So those are a couple

713
00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:38.960
of things that I got from what
you just said. There anything you want

714
00:47:38.960 --> 00:47:44.320
to chime back on that? Well, there's a that raises an interesting point

715
00:47:44.360 --> 00:47:47.440
about work. Let's say you have
a job and there are certain functions you

716
00:47:47.480 --> 00:47:50.800
have to perform, and some of
them you like and some of them you

717
00:47:50.840 --> 00:47:52.880
don't necessarily like. But if you
can take a look at your job and

718
00:47:52.920 --> 00:47:57.559
say, okay, these are the
things I have to do. But what

719
00:47:57.760 --> 00:48:01.599
about these things contribute to either a
goal I have, or a skill I

720
00:48:01.639 --> 00:48:06.039
want to learn, or a way
that I want to help people, or

721
00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:08.480
whatever, the things that are important
to you. If you look hard enough,

722
00:48:08.519 --> 00:48:15.920
you can almost always find those avenues
where you can blend a company's goals

723
00:48:15.920 --> 00:48:17.920
for you with your personal goals.
You know, especially if you're in a

724
00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:22.880
leadership position, because if you're a
person who just wants to help people,

725
00:48:22.719 --> 00:48:25.519
you know, the leadership position is
the perfect place to do that because you

726
00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:29.400
get to develop people, you get
to mentor people, you get to help

727
00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:31.519
them achieve their goals and dreams.
You get to do all that cool stuff.

728
00:48:31.559 --> 00:48:37.039
So in that setting, even if
you are told here is your job

729
00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:39.000
and here are the things you need
to do, if you look hard at

730
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:44.559
it and find places where you can
express some of your goals and interests,

731
00:48:44.920 --> 00:48:47.280
then like you said, you get
to be a better version of yourself.

732
00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:51.039
At over time, maybe you get
to that place where you are the best

733
00:48:51.119 --> 00:48:53.679
version of yourself, and that again
is a really cool place to be.

734
00:48:53.719 --> 00:48:58.239
And you don't have to be you
know, the you don't have to be

735
00:48:58.280 --> 00:49:02.360
in total charge of your every day
in order to pull that off. Ugh,

736
00:49:02.519 --> 00:49:05.280
you know, it's so great about
this. So in the research that

737
00:49:05.360 --> 00:49:07.440
I did, one of the things
I looked at, Jeff, was I

738
00:49:07.480 --> 00:49:09.760
looked at how people experience meaning in
their work, and I looked at how

739
00:49:09.800 --> 00:49:14.800
it related to their sense of identity. And what I found was people could

740
00:49:15.039 --> 00:49:19.440
the way they experience meaning their work
could be in sync or resonate with with

741
00:49:19.519 --> 00:49:23.400
themselves. It could also be work
could be a way to express themselves and

742
00:49:23.440 --> 00:49:28.440
their identities, and work could be
a way to inform their sense of self.

743
00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:30.199
So what I think I just heard
you say there is when people can

744
00:49:30.280 --> 00:49:34.119
kind of find a way to unite
their own purpose with that of their companies,

745
00:49:34.119 --> 00:49:37.960
there's there's some creation that goes on
there. Then that's an interesting new

746
00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:43.440
take there. And I find that
to be another great empowering tool that you

747
00:49:43.519 --> 00:49:46.000
just gave our audience, Right,
we can actually co create that meaning and

748
00:49:46.039 --> 00:49:50.280
purpose within our work. Yeah,
and you could do it in a very

749
00:49:50.360 --> 00:49:52.599
mundane way if you take me.
I write for Ink, and you know,

750
00:49:52.639 --> 00:49:57.880
I write about entrepreneurs, small businesses, small business people. But if

751
00:49:57.880 --> 00:50:00.119
you think about that, those are
all just people, and so the subjects

752
00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:05.800
you can write about are actually pretty
broad. So I you know, I

753
00:50:05.800 --> 00:50:08.280
took some time to build up my
base and hopefully build up some notoriety.

754
00:50:08.320 --> 00:50:12.000
And then I looked around and said, what am I interested in? And

755
00:50:12.079 --> 00:50:16.719
what things could I learn about or
experience that readers would also enjoy and learn

756
00:50:16.840 --> 00:50:21.679
from. And so I went from
a guy who was kind of just writing

757
00:50:21.880 --> 00:50:24.000
sort of what I was told to
or you know, stuff that I thought

758
00:50:24.039 --> 00:50:29.079
I should to being able to look
around and say, what, you know,

759
00:50:29.199 --> 00:50:31.840
what's interesting to me? And what
will I get out of this too?

760
00:50:31.840 --> 00:50:35.880
And so I've gotten to this cool
place where I get to experience things,

761
00:50:36.280 --> 00:50:39.280
see things, talk to really neat
people, learn new stuff. I

762
00:50:39.320 --> 00:50:44.159
get to do all those things,
and it's also my profession to do so.

763
00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:47.480
And while I know that's hard in
some jobs to pull that off,

764
00:50:47.840 --> 00:50:52.599
there are possibilities, I think,
within every job to be able to do

765
00:50:52.639 --> 00:50:55.559
that. I long ago worked in
manufacturing and started out at the very lowest

766
00:50:55.639 --> 00:51:01.119
level of a plant and really liked
a job. But I looked around and

767
00:51:01.159 --> 00:51:05.079
said, okay, but what I
really want to do is I would like

768
00:51:05.159 --> 00:51:07.920
to run a plant someday. So
what do I have to do to get

769
00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:09.760
there? And so the first thing
I did was realize that, Okay,

770
00:51:09.760 --> 00:51:15.320
I got to get promoted, so
I better be better than everybody else at

771
00:51:15.360 --> 00:51:17.440
what I do, and just committing
myself to saying I'm going to be better

772
00:51:17.440 --> 00:51:21.639
than everybody, and I'm going to
volunteer for this stuff nobody volunteers for.

773
00:51:22.119 --> 00:51:24.960
I'm going to do the things that
nobody else wants to do. That was

774
00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:29.119
actually really fulfilling and it set me
apart and it helped me move along.

775
00:51:29.159 --> 00:51:31.119
So there. I guess my point
is that there are all kinds of ways

776
00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:36.400
within whatever your job or role is, that you can actually find your own

777
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:40.519
purpose and at the same time accomplish
what your company wants you to accomplish,

778
00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:45.199
because you still have to do that, but if you can align those then

779
00:51:45.960 --> 00:51:50.039
life is pretty cool. Mm hmm. Well, speaking of that, Jeff,

780
00:51:50.079 --> 00:51:52.239
one of the things I wanted to
be sure and asking we're getting darn

781
00:51:52.239 --> 00:51:54.760
close to having to conclude the show. But you know, on the heels

782
00:51:54.760 --> 00:52:00.280
of talking about becoming something, you
were this plant manager. You ran this

783
00:52:00.440 --> 00:52:04.760
plant for several years, and I've
heard you also say that your office is

784
00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:07.760
your pack pack I left that phrase. How did you get into this whole

785
00:52:07.800 --> 00:52:14.280
writing thing anyway? Well, I
married well, and I don't mean in

786
00:52:14.360 --> 00:52:20.000
terms of money necessarily, although I
married well that way too. But I

787
00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:22.400
got tired of manufacturing and I got
tired of their role and wanted to do

788
00:52:22.440 --> 00:52:25.480
something else. And my wife was
very encouraging and said, then what do

789
00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:29.880
you really want to do? And
I decided that I wanted to write,

790
00:52:29.880 --> 00:52:31.840
and I had never really done that, and I had no credentials that would

791
00:52:31.840 --> 00:52:35.119
cause me to think that I could
do so. And she said, you

792
00:52:35.119 --> 00:52:37.079
know, I take a year work. You're bought off if you get to

793
00:52:37.119 --> 00:52:39.119
the other end and you don't think
there's a future in this. You can

794
00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:43.320
always go back to what you were
doing, but why not try? And

795
00:52:43.400 --> 00:52:46.559
so I knew it wouldn't be easy, and for a while I did both.

796
00:52:46.599 --> 00:52:49.760
So I would write at night,
I would write on the weekends while

797
00:52:49.800 --> 00:52:52.360
I still did my job. Got
to a place where I thought I could

798
00:52:52.480 --> 00:52:55.519
give it a go and did so, and just committed to if this is

799
00:52:55.519 --> 00:52:59.880
going to work, I have to
figure it out, and I have to

800
00:52:59.880 --> 00:53:04.079
do what it takes. And then
at some point you've paid your dues and

801
00:53:04.159 --> 00:53:06.719
you can start to expand and you
can do what I just talked about a

802
00:53:06.719 --> 00:53:09.039
little bit ago. But at first
it was just very much. A I'll

803
00:53:09.039 --> 00:53:13.719
do anything that I have to do, and that's a I don't know.

804
00:53:13.760 --> 00:53:15.480
That to me is a very empowering
thing. People look at a job and

805
00:53:15.519 --> 00:53:19.760
they say, Wow, I don't
want to have to do these things because

806
00:53:19.800 --> 00:53:22.880
they're hard, or I shouldn't have
to. If you flip that around and

807
00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:27.480
say, I'm going to do these
things because they are hard and because I

808
00:53:27.559 --> 00:53:30.199
don't have to, because that will
set me apart, and that will get

809
00:53:30.199 --> 00:53:34.239
me skills that other people don't have, and that will get me experiences other

810
00:53:34.239 --> 00:53:36.519
people don't have, and that will
make me, like you said, a

811
00:53:36.679 --> 00:53:39.599
better me. If you flip it
around and do that, and you can

812
00:53:39.719 --> 00:53:43.800
go to some really great places.
If you just get rid of that I

813
00:53:43.840 --> 00:53:47.360
shouldn't have to and flip it around
and say, you know what I want

814
00:53:47.400 --> 00:53:52.079
to because nobody else will, and
that will instantly set you apart. Mm

815
00:53:52.159 --> 00:53:55.880
hmm, well I love that.
I just really quick. I want to

816
00:53:55.920 --> 00:54:00.079
comment what you said before the importance
of association, that being your wife a

817
00:54:00.159 --> 00:54:07.480
high quality person who's actually encouraging you. Well, marrying great is a fantastic

818
00:54:07.519 --> 00:54:12.639
thing. I'm married so far over
my head. I think that's fantastic.

819
00:54:13.239 --> 00:54:15.159
And the second thing that you said
that's so important is the commitment piece.

820
00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:20.679
Right, Once we commit ourselves to
something, there's something about that that just

821
00:54:21.320 --> 00:54:24.199
pulls for us. And I think
that's really important to be able to distinguish

822
00:54:24.239 --> 00:54:29.760
how when we commit and really pour
ourselves into something we can start to see

823
00:54:29.800 --> 00:54:32.599
some results. Well, i'd like
to really briefly, I'd like to just

824
00:54:32.599 --> 00:54:37.440
say that whenever you try something new
that's hard, it's really hard at first,

825
00:54:37.559 --> 00:54:42.280
and it feels defeating. And so
if like we use my marathon example,

826
00:54:42.280 --> 00:54:44.519
if you decide you want to run
a marathon someday, but you never

827
00:54:44.599 --> 00:54:46.599
run, and you go run that
first mile and it's hard, and you

828
00:54:46.599 --> 00:54:50.440
think about running twenty six and go, wow, I'm just going to quit.

829
00:54:50.760 --> 00:54:53.199
Whenever you try something new, the
commitment you have to make to yourself

830
00:54:53.239 --> 00:54:55.360
is that you're going to give it, let's say a week or a week

831
00:54:55.360 --> 00:55:00.719
and a half, and you're going
to do whatever your process is, even

832
00:55:00.760 --> 00:55:04.159
if it's hard, give it that
time, because by the time you get

833
00:55:04.199 --> 00:55:06.880
to the end of the week or
week and a half, you will see

834
00:55:06.920 --> 00:55:10.159
some little improvements that you will not
have seen that first day or two that

835
00:55:10.239 --> 00:55:14.679
will make you say, hey,
wow, I'm better than I was.

836
00:55:14.920 --> 00:55:19.199
This is actually kind of starting to
work. That's really cool. I've become

837
00:55:19.360 --> 00:55:22.360
something that I was not, even
if it's just a tiny bit, that

838
00:55:22.400 --> 00:55:25.880
will then get you that motivation that
you need to keep going. So whenever

839
00:55:25.920 --> 00:55:29.320
you pick up something new you want
to do, you have to give it

840
00:55:29.320 --> 00:55:31.119
at least a week or a week
and a half. At least commit to

841
00:55:31.199 --> 00:55:35.719
that, and you can do anything
for a week or a week and a

842
00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:37.800
half. Oh my gosh, we
can all do that. That is a

843
00:55:37.840 --> 00:55:42.840
great way to finish. We're we're
out of time, So quickly finish your

844
00:55:42.880 --> 00:55:44.679
thoughts. Sorry, we're out of
time. Go for it real quick.

845
00:55:45.239 --> 00:55:46.639
Oh I was just gonna say,
that's that's what gets you over that hurdle.

846
00:55:46.679 --> 00:55:50.000
So commit to a week or a
week and a half. Pop your

847
00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:52.360
head up and realize that, Wow, I've done something really cool. I

848
00:55:52.480 --> 00:55:54.559
love that. That is a great
way to finish. And Jeff, I

849
00:55:54.559 --> 00:55:58.239
have loved every moment of this conversation. Thank you so much for being with

850
00:55:58.320 --> 00:56:00.760
us. Well, thank you.
I'm just I'm only disappointed that it's over.

851
00:56:01.199 --> 00:56:05.159
I'm me too. Well, listeners, if you want to learn more

852
00:56:05.159 --> 00:56:07.159
about Jeff Hayden and all he's been
up to. Visit his website. It's

853
00:56:07.239 --> 00:56:13.079
Jeffhayden dot com. So j E
F F H A D E N dot

854
00:56:13.079 --> 00:56:15.360
com and join us next week when
we talk with Chemo Kippen, who is

855
00:56:15.400 --> 00:56:20.079
an advocate for lifelong learning and talent
development. He is the former Chief Learning

856
00:56:20.079 --> 00:56:22.880
Officer and Vice President of Global Workforce
Initiatives at Hilton, where he was responsible

857
00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:28.559
for creating lifelong learning solutions for Hilton's
hundreds of thousands of employees worldwide. We'll

858
00:56:28.599 --> 00:56:30.639
be talking about some of the lessons
he's learned in his long, distinguished career

859
00:56:31.159 --> 00:56:35.599
and a few key workforce trends he
thinks are especially important to pay attention to

860
00:56:35.679 --> 00:56:37.239
for all of us. See you
then, remember that work is at least

861
00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:46.199
one third of our life, so
let's work on purpose. We hope you've

862
00:56:46.280 --> 00:56:51.559
enjoyed this week's program. Be sure
to tune into Working on Purpose featuring your

863
00:56:51.559 --> 00:56:55.880
host Alis Cortes every Wednesday at six
pm Eastern Time three pm Pacific Time on

864
00:56:55.960 --> 00:57:01.000
the Voice America Empowerment Channel. This
week, find your life's purpose at work. M