Want to be the Gutsy Girl Who GOES for It and GETS It?

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortes. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working

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on purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortes. I'm your host,

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Elise Cortes, joining from Dallas,
Texas, which is home base for

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me. This program is all about
helping people more meaningfully and productively connect with

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their work and equipping leaders and organizations
to cultivate meeting and purpose within those organizations.

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I bring on guests to have a
particular perspective or experience that I think

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contributes to work. Spans this conversation, and as a management consultant and social

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scientist, I draw into meeting and
work research I've been doing over the last

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fifteen years, as well as from
my own consulting speaker and experience developing workforces

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across the globe. Last week,
if you missed the live show, you

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can always catch it be recorded podcast. We were on The Doctor Joy Martina,

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author of How to Use Your Intuition
to Change Your Life. She gave

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us many pearls of wisdom from her
years of research, inquiry, and practice

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helping business leaders and celebrities developed their
intuitive intelligence. It was a fascinating conversation.

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A I learned a ton with us
this week is Kate White, the

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New York Times best selling author of
twelve murder mysteries and thrillers and several popular

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career books, including the Gutsy Girl
handbook, Your Manifesto for Success, based

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on her groundbreaking bestseller Why Good Girls
Don't Get It Ahead, But Gutsy Girls

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Do. For fourteen years, Kate
was the editor in chief of the Cosmopolitan

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magazine, where she increased overall circulation
by thirty percent and made Cosmo the number

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one magazine in the US in single
copy sales. Today, we're here to

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talk about how women can learn from
her years of experience asigotzea woman in the

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business world, now what she's learned
from many others along the way. She

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joins today from New York City.
Kate, Welcome to working on per Thank

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you, Elise. I am so
happy to have you and thrilled you came

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into my path. Oh my gosh, I'm going to learn a ton from

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you, and I just love the
idea of celebrating who you are and what

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you've done in the world with all
of our listeners. Kates, So thank

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you for being with us. It's
great. So I want to start by

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situating why. One of the reasons
I wanted to have you on the show

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is I do a lot of work
coaching women across the globe as they developed

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their careers and certainly as they developed
their leadership. And as you say in

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your book so eloquently, we've come
a long way, but really just not

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enough. So can you start by
giving us some status about women in the

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workplace? And I mean, I'm
generally pretty positive about things and pretty optimistic,

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but what you have in the book
is still kind of dismal. Where

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are we well? I had to
use the word dismal because certainly, just

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as you sat, at least we've
come so far. When I was first

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in New York in the seventies,
I applied at Newsweek magazine for a job

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because I wanted to be in journalism, and I was told, look,

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you can only get so far because
women are not allowed to become editors here,

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and it took a lawsuit by some
brave women who worked at Newsweek to

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change that. So things are so
different, but still according to one of

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the surveys from Lean in the Sheryl
Sandberg Company, they looked at eighteen thousand

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jobs and they found that women earned
ninety two cents on the dollar compared to

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men, but when women entered management, that dropped to eighty three cents,

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So you still see a discrepancy there. And one of the stats that really

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bugged me was the fact of and
this came from Catalysts, that the women

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account for forty four percent of all
employees at SMP companies SMP five hundred companies,

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they account for just twenty five percent
of people of twenty five percent of

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management. And I think this stat
that really slew me was was one involving

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of Beyonce. There's that great song
where Beyonce talks about girls running the world.

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But the company that creates and markets
her Fragrance, until recently had no

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women on its executive in its executive
ranks or its board. And they finally

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added one person because I think that
stack got out there. So we still

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do have our work to do,
for sure, m h. And of

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course part of what I stand for
there on that Kate, for sure is

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I think that part of it,
not all of it, not even close

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to all of it. Part of
it is that I think that workplaces are

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not compelling for a lot of women. It's not interesting for they how they

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experience work. And of course I'm
out to be able to help companies elicit

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more meaning and purpose, make it
a better place for everyone to enjoy themselves

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and grow and thrive. But we
won't talk about that in this episode.

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I want to talk about what you
have learned and what you have, what

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you can share about your background,
your experience and all these branch you had

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writing books. So one of the
things I want to ask, and I

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just love your whole career case,
it's just so inspiring. But I want

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to talk about how you have been
able to apply that the Gutzy Girl principles

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you talk about in your book.
You have nine of them in there,

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I believe, but it's to the
extent that we can sure at least some

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of them on the show with our
listeners. It would be great if you

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could just say a little bit about
how you've used some of those to be

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able to do some of the amazing
things that you've done a chief of Red

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Book, editor in chief of Cosmopolitan, writing twelve books. It's impressive.

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Well, I think for me,
some of it has been unleashing those gutsy

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girl instincts that were there when I
was growing up but got tamped down at

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times because I, like a lot
of women, there are moments where I

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feel, oh, I don't want
to rock the boat here. I don't

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want to step into a pubble with
my party shoes on. And so it

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was really trying to let some of
those onferral, and also at certain situations

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stepping back and saying, Okay,
this isn't working. What do I have

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to do to make a change here. There was one point where I was

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the number two at a magazine,
just a small Sunday supplement magazine, and

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I was up for the number one
job after my boss left and I ran

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the magazine for three months while they
conduct a search for his successor, and

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I threw my hat in the ring, or was told your hat's in the

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ring, and I didn't get the
job, And later my boss, who

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had gone on to run GQ,
took me aside and he said, I

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heard that your proposal was the best
and you didn't get the job because you

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were a woman. And that was
a moment where I probably could have cried

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into my beer, but I said, you know what I'm going to do.

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I'm going to go back into women's
magazines and I'm not going to end

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up having that hurdle in front of
me. So probably for me, I

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would say what's helped me the most
is the ability sometimes to step back and

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look at the landscape and say,
Okay, here's what I've got to do

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differently. Always I've been good about
asking for what I want, because if

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you don't ask, you're not going
to get it. And one part,

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just one last thing, I would
say, a big part to me of

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gutsiness is not being afraid to show
your passion. Passion is really contagious.

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And once when I got a job
as the energy for Red Book, that

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headhunter told me later, Kate,
don't change, and I said, what

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do you mean by that? And
he said, so many people who applied

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for top jobs feel they have to
be buttoned up, and you just wore

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your heart on your sleeve about how
much you wanted that job, and that

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is a winning formula, and I
wish I could teach that to other people.

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So that's I think that's been a
big part of my success is not

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being afraid to even seem a little
corny sometimes about how much I want something

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and how much I'd like to bring
to it. Oh that's so beautiful,

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Kate, And thank you for a
couple of things. One using the word

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unleashing your gutsy girl instincts. I
use that word a lot. And two

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I do a lot of coaching with
women, and women are You're right?

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Are more and more so buttoned up
in the workplace, And I tell them,

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please show your authenticity. Let us
see what inspires you, what brings

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you to life, and what is
your purpose because that is irresistible to people,

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and they're like, really, are
you sure? And they don't believe

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me. So if they don't believe
me, then we'll let them believe you.

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Alisa, I once got a letter
from a girl who wants to be

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an Internet Cosmo, and she had
this line in the letter that she had

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me at this line because she said, I can still remember being fifteen and

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reading Cosmos in as I lay on
my bed in unmatched pajamas, and I

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thought, Wow, what an authentic
moment. I could picture her on her

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bed in those unmatched pajamas, and
I just love everything that was so authentic

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about her letter. Don't be afraid
to show that, don't be afraid to

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wear your heart on your sleeve.
I am completely completely with you, and

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we want to encour get that message
out there more writ large. And you

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are a good person to speak that, Kate, So thank you. Okay,

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Well, let's talk about some of
those rules. I like in this

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show, Kate, to give our
listeners as much information that they can actually

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walk away and use as we possibly
can while they get to know you and

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what you're about. So one of
the rules, the first one that you

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talk about in the book is I
got to girl breaks the rules. So

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would you say a bit more about
that. What do you mean by breaking

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the rules? Sometimes to stand out
from the pack, you have to do

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things a little differently. This is
such an old example, but when I

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was a senior in college, my
college picked me to enter Glamour Magazine's Top

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ten College Woman contest, and I
really wanted to win because I thought it

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would be an entree to the publishing
world. In New York and the part

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of the entry was writing an essay
about your goals for the future, and

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I decided to write an ast say
about why I had no goals for the

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future. And of course I circle
back in the piece and I did have

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goals, but I know that essay
helped me to win and I ended up

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being on the cover and that was
my entry into magazines. So sometimes you

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just have to look at things a
little bit differently. Once you're in a

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job, it's really important to know
that it's not enough to do things anymore

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just what you've been told to do, and to do them really well.

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You've got to come up with bold, innovative, sometimes disruptive ideas for your

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boss, for your department, for
your company, and not just follow the

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rules. And that may be simply, let's say your boss asks you to

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prontounce some numbers and run some numbers
and do an analysis, a very simple

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analysis. But as you're doing that
analysis, you see a pattern. And

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you haven't been told to look for
a pattern, but you see a pattern.

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And in terms of let's say sales
in California, to put a top

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memo on that and that running of
the numbers you did where you say.

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While I was doing this, I
happen to see a really interesting trend in

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California. Wouldn't it be terrific if
we did such and such and try to

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leverage that That's not what you've been
told to do, but it tells your

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boss that you are a gutsy thinker
and you're going to go beyond your job

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description. True value added, Kate. I also teach here at Southern Methodis

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University, so I work with a
lot of young students who are just entering

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their careers, and I often tell
them just that exan exact advice. Go

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look for what you see and offer
it, give it. And what I'm

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finding is that the younger generation especially
seems a little more reticent. And maybe

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that's just because they haven't been much
experience in the world, but they're like,

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are you sure if that's okay?
Are you yes? It's better than

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okay. So many of my wonderful
staffers, initially they didn't know how to

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do that. Often I knew something
I called the four bes. It's a

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great little tool that I found helped
me a lot. At COSMO. I

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would ask myself about any event I
was planning any idea. I was working

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on these four bees? Could it
be better? Could it be bigger?

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Could it be bolder? Could it
be more badass? And I that her

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ways to blow it up and move
out color outside the lines with it.

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Often that's where you get the idea
that's different than the same old way you've

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always done it before. M hm. And I like how you bring that

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to life in your book too,
because I caught that too. Love that.

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Okay, well let's go into rule
number two and you've already kind of

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alluded to it, But I just
love how in your book you just really

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just bring it out there and you
say, I got to girl decides what

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she wants to be famous for and
then she goes for it fearlessly. I

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love that. But how do we
pull that off? Well, I'm a

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big believer, even though it's become
a little cliche these days, that it's

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great to be aware of what you're
personal professional brand is, what is your

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specialty? How do you define it? And it makes it easier for you

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to know what to say yes to, what to say no for, to

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what to go after. And it's
really fun to think about your brand.

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And one of the little exer sizes. I given the book that I was

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helped by with by a wonderful woman
who does brand strategy for BMW group is

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to just take eight or nine words
that you think really define your specialty,

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then try to get it down to
three words and then try to create it

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into a sentence or a statement,
almost like a bumper sticker. And for

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me, when I was doing my
public speaking in the beginning, I started

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to think that maybe mine could become
I'm the authority on gutsy big bold gutsy

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career, or something to that effect. So you're really just giving yourself something

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a statement that you can refer back
to. At Cosmo, our brand statement

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was Funfareless Female, and that was
such a great tool for me because it

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allowed me to look at everything we
were considering every project and say, jee,

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I like this, but is this
too earnest? Is it not enough?

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Fun fare Less Female? So,
if you've got your brand statement down,

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and it can shift over time,
for sure, because everything changes,

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but if you get your brand statement
down, it really allows you to hold

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stuff up against it and evaluate whether
it's going to reinforce your brand when you

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make that choice or follow that path, or it's going to fight it.

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Mm hmm. I love that that. I like just that isolating it down

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like that. I have to work
on that yet for myself. But we

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got time for one more rule before
we have to go on a quick break

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here, and I love this one
and I want you to know Kate that

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thanks to you and reading your book, I actually have a sticky of this

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next one. Rule number three,
girl knows how to hustle. So I've

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got this sticky that says hustle.
So tell us about hustle. Oh,

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to me, hustle is just figuring
out what your priorities are and just going

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for them, working your schedule,
dumping what doesn't matter, delegating, ignoring

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what you can just totally ignore,
and only focusing on what's important. Be

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a ball or look for openings,
go after what really matters, and leave

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the rest behind. Yeah. I
love your whole section on delegating unapologetically because

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a lot of the women that I
do work with as I coach them,

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really struggle with that because they feel
like, I don't want to dump this

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on somebody, or is it fair
to ask, or it's just unapologetically really

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got me. Yes, And one
of the things that this wonderful woman Julia

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Morgenstern, who's a time management expert, mentioned in the book when I interviewed

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her, is that we take sometimes
women take a lot of satisfaction out of

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being the girl who does everything,
so that when something gets dumped on your

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desk and saying, gee, Bob, I'd love to help, but I'm

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focusing on this right now. You
feel like I want to show Bob I

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can do it. I want to
show them a team player. I want

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to show I can do everything.
That's a good girl instinct. YEP,

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I understand that, and we want
to get to the bottom of that and

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start changing course. And on that
note, Kate, let's take our first

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break. I'm your host, Alis
Cortes. We've been on the air with

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Kate White, the New York Times
bestselling author of twelve murder mysteries and thrillers

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and several popular career books, including
the Gutsy Girl handbook, Your Manifesto for

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Success, based on her groundbreaking bestseller
Why Good Girls Don't Get Ahead, But

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Gutsy Girls Do. She joins today
from New York City. We've been talking

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a bit about some of the rules
and how she's gotten to where she is

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in life after the break, will
continue on with some more of those rules.

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Stay with us, We'll be right
back. Elise Cortes is a speaker

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00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:07.400
and engagement and development catalyst. She
designs and delivers professional development, leadership and

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engagement workshops and can bring her expertise
to your organization. She will help ignite

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meaningful development within your workforce that will
increase employee engagement, performance and retention.

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To learn more or to invite Elise
to speak to your organization, please visit

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00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:26.839
her at www dot elisecortes dot com. She would welcome the opportunity to help

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get your employees working on purpose.
This is working on purpose with Elise Cortes.

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To reach our program today, send
an email to a lease Alic at

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00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:52.079
elisecortes dot com. Now back to
working on purpose if you're just joining us.

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My guest is Kate White, the
New York Times bestselling author of twelve

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murder mysteries and thrillers, in several
popular career books, including the Gutsygirl hand

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Book Your Manifesto for Success, based
on her groundbreaking bestseller Why Good Girls Don't

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Get Ahead But Gotsy Girls Do.
For fourteen years, Kate was the editor

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in chief of Cosmopolitan magazine, where
she increased overall circulation by thirty percent and

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made Cosmo the number one magazine in
the US and single copy sales. We've

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been talking about about her own life, her own experience developing your career,

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and also some of the rules she
wrote about in her book. Now we're

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going to continue on some more of
those rules that I think could be useful.

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So, Kate, one of the
things that you talk about in your

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book that I thought was especially pointing
it and something that we women oftentimes don't

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like to talk about. Who that
is You say that Gatsi girl gets that

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appearances matter, whether that's fair or
not. And you've got a whole section

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on how women ought to maybe consider
dressing for success, including developing a signature

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look, hairstyles, all kinds of
things tell us a little bit about that

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particular role. It does seem unfair, doesn't it, because we ought to

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judge for our skills and our expertise
and our experience. But we are human

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beings and we judge on appearance.
And studies show that, as you probably

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know from your coaching, the decision
not to hire is often made within the

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first five to ten minutes and what
are they basing that on. They're basing

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it on how you're coming across visually. First and foremost, you need to

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dress for the job you aspire to. There's no way around that. And

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once you are in your company,
you need to be dressing for the next

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job that you want so that your
boss can see you in that role when

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that opens up for when you go
after it. And just as important as

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dressing for the job you aspire to
is speaking for the job you aspire to.

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You have to learn to take command
in a meeting and present yourself with

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as much confidence as possible. I
have heard so many women, and I've

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been there my out in meetings pitch
an idea with phrases like maybe we should

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or I'm just spitballing here, or
this probably isn't a good idea. But

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you have to learn to walk into
that room, choose a good seat at

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the table, gain the floor,
and present your idea with confidence and without

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fillers like oh or ah, So
that speaking is as much a part of

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your whole sort of appearance as your
dress is. Kate, that is such

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a great point. I just was
working a few months ago with a woman

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who had been told by her boss, look, you got to speak up

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more in the meetings. People don't
even know who you are, and yet

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you have plenty to share. And
he said, moreover, I want you

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to develop your career here, and
you can't just stay in the same role

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that you're in. And so he
hired me for her, and we worked

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on just that thing. Okay,
Yeah, we worked. He is a

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great boss. I so commend him. And you know what happened is not

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very long after he he hired me
for her, he got promoted and we

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talked and I talked about her applying
for his job. And of course we

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talked about that for a couple of
weeks or so, we got her ready

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for it. She applied for it, and the great story is she got

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the job. Can I just ask
you, what was the best tip you

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gave her for presenting herself better in
meetings? Yeah? What I told her

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was a couple of things. She's
she's quiet by nature, so she's she

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tends to want to take in information
like a lot of people. She's an

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engineer and so she does take in
a lot of data. So what I

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what I told her. One of
the things I told her I said,

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you've got to go and ready to
share something. You have a whole wealth

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of knowledge that you can draw from
because of your experience and your education.

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To go and ready to be able
to draw something from your every day that

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you already know that you know will
be useful. But prepare for that in

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evance, because you're going to need
to prepare for that and it'll make you

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feel more comfortable. But have it
at the ready. You have a few

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things at the ready, and then
you know, be be willing to be

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a little uncomfortable and put yourself out
there right. A lot of people don't

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realize how prepping before a meeting is
so important. They were waiting for the

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meeting to unfold. But you've got
to gain the meeting in advance. Take

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us take some time to look at
the players and guess what their agenda is

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going to be, and go and
prepared absolutely, and yeah, absolutely,

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And to that end, on one
of the other things you talk about in

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the book, one of the other
rules, and you've already kind of mentioned

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it, but it was so important
when she when she was going through the

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interview process, and that is asking
for what we want. You know,

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she wasn't she said, I don't
know what I should ask for, and

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I don't know what I want just
yet. I said, well, you

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got to get really clear about that, but you said it earlier. But

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my daughter, when my daughter was
five, Kate, she came home from

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camp one day and she just said, so matter of fact, you don't

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ask, you don't get. And
I just right, I mean that from

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the mouth of babes. And I
just thought if more of us women could

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get that early on in life and
then live it, how much different our

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lives might be. So true,
And today I actually think women have come

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to see how important asking is.
When I did the first book Why Good

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Girls Don't Get Ahead, twenty three
years ago, and I would mention the

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importance of asking in a talk I
was giving, I would see women nod

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their heads as if a light bulb
had gone off. Yeah, yeah,

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no, I need to do that. Today women know that, but because

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it makes them so uncomfortable, I
see them talking themselves out of it.

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They'll think, now it's not a
good time, or they don't have the

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money for it, or if they
know I want it, so I don't

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have to ask. You have to
ask. Just as your daughter said,

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you don't ask, you don't get, and you have to ask for opportunities

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too, not just money. There
was a study lately from Hastings School of

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Law that said that women and people
of color are far less likely to be

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given the kind of glamour jobs that
lead to promotions, like representing the company

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in an industry fan or working with
a client on a new project. So

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you've got to raise your hand for
them. You've got to go into your

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boss and say, hey, I
hear this, this is going to be

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happening. I'd loved you to think
of me for this, absolutely. And

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I don't know what it is about
us. I don't know if it is

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that we're afraid of what we want, or if we've been conditioned somehow culturally.

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I don't know, but there is
something about that and I want to

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share just really quick. A few
years ago I went through a program called

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Leadership Women in the Leadership of America
here in Dallas, a great program.

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Love what they're up to. And
I was in that program with a very

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very wicked, smart woman as she
has a PhD in astronomy and anyway,

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sitting there on the bus, she
was sitting there looking and hearing about all

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other women that she'd met, and
she got really inspired and she said,

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darn it, that's it. I'm
just going to do it. And I'm

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like, what what are you going
to do? Are we going to roub

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a bank? What are we doing? And she goes, I'm going to

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put my name on the hat to
be chair of my department, and she

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said, I put it off,
and I keep saying I'm not going to

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do it because I've got young children, I'm busy and all of this and

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all that and all that. I'm
just going to do it. And Kate,

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she put her name in a hat. She's the first female chair of

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the University of Austin to Texas and
she did it. I love that story.

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Yeah, it's wonderful. I'm so
proud of her and she's just kicking

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it. But it did take asking
for what she wanted, putting herself out

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there. Yes, and if you're
not sure what you want, like that

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person you referenced, you just have
to say, I'm going to take some

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time to try to figure out what
it is. And because if I don't

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have clarity, I haven't thought about
my goals and my needs clearly enough.

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Mm hmmm. I think that's so
great, right, really spending some time

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really getting clear and riveting on what
it is that we want for ourselves in

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our lives. Well, I do
want to talk a little bit more about

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money, if you don't mind.
It's something that I think a lot of

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women really struggle with. And we've
already said that. You said ninety two

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cents on the dollar. At least
that's I remember a figure years ago that

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was seventy eight cents on the dollar. So I guess we really are making

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progress. But how do you counsel
women to ask for money or other valuable

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perks when they're out and about going
for what they want. Well, first

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of all, having been a boss
many places, I let them know that

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companies are often low balling, and
that's just a given. Because they're leaving

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money to negotiate with, they often
expect negotiation, So you have to know

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that. And when you are applying
for a job and you get the offer,

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you do not accept the amount that
they offer, even if it meets

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what your expectations were, because you
could be leaving money on the table and

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you want to read the room.
You want to get a sense of the

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best way to approach a negotiation with
that particular person. But I'm a big

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believer in just being gracious and saying
something like, Janet, I am thrilled

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to get off of this job.
I loved interviewing with you. I've loved

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everything you've told me about the company. I could bring so much here,

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but I was hoping for eighty thousand. Can we make that happen? And

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I know sometimes I would get a
little irritated with people who were gutsy enough

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to negotiate, but when they came
in and performed, all was forgotten.

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And you cannot hesitate to do that. And you can also negotiate for raises

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your boss. If you raise it
disappoints you, it may be because there's

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only so much in the pool.
Then say, all right, well,

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what about another week of vacation,
what about a title change? What about

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the opportunity to revisit this in six
months when the budget opens up. It's

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scary to do it first, but
the more you do it, the more

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you'll find it so much easier to
do over time. And I think the

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way that you just gave us that
the entre to be able to speak it

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that way, you know, being
gracious about it. Kate was just great.

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I think that's just such a great
example that women can use as maybe

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a bit of a template to be
able to draw from. Yes, I

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just I've seen a couple of studies
like I think there's a Cheryl Sandberg one

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that says that when women do this
or seeing this bossy and I hate studies

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like that because they make it they
almost discourage us from doing it. Well,

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there's a way to do it without
sounding overly assertive or bossy. Just

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keep emotion on your voice and be
gracious and ideally they're going to look at

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you as someone who just values yourself
and your experience. Mm hmm, I

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love that. That's beautiful, Kate, gorgeous. That was worth the price

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of emission right there, for sure? True? No pun intended, right,

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no pun intended. Okay, Well, let's go on to smart risks.

408
00:28:55.759 --> 00:28:59.400
You've got a whole rule here about
gutsy girls taking smart risks. So

409
00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:03.519
first I want us to distinguish what
you mean by smart risks, and then

410
00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:04.759
we can talk about you know,
really, how does that rule show up

411
00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:10.640
for us in the workforce today?
We have to not only embrace change,

412
00:29:10.759 --> 00:29:15.480
we have to create change. We
have to be disruptors. I love this

413
00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:18.079
quote and I mentioned in the book
of Ursula Burns, who used to be

414
00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:22.519
head of Xerox. She said she
loved people who fix things before they were

415
00:29:22.559 --> 00:29:27.079
broken. We have to have our
ear to the ground and know that there's

416
00:29:27.279 --> 00:29:33.119
time to shift and things move quickly. But you don't want to take stupid

417
00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:37.960
risks, And there are questions to
ask yourself to help guide you, like

418
00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:45.000
what are the potential benefits, what
is the potential harm, how probable is

419
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:49.480
that harm? How much can I
afford to lose? And it's important to

420
00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:55.079
run through those questions with yourself so
you don't do a risk just because it

421
00:29:55.119 --> 00:29:59.759
looks cool and it sounds good.
You need to do that evaluation for every

422
00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:03.960
big risk. And another good question
is how I feel if a competitor does

423
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:07.240
this. And all those things help
guide you to an answer that says,

424
00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:10.480
look, I don't have a lot
to lose, but I've got a lot

425
00:30:10.519 --> 00:30:15.240
to gain. Let me go for
it, or maybe not. You are

426
00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:18.680
so reminding me of the conversation we
had on air last week Ky that was

427
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:25.359
with doctor Joey Martina, and we
were talking about the intelligence of intuition and

428
00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:27.960
how that factored into how we make
decisions and how we take in data and

429
00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:30.799
what we do with that information.
So it seems to me that there is

430
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:34.720
an element of what you're talking about
about smart risks that does involve intuition.

431
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:38.279
Yes. No, Yes. In
fact, I heard you mentioned her and

432
00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:41.599
I was thinking, God, I'm
going to go back and listen to that.

433
00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:45.839
I'm a big believer in gut,
but I would explain it a little

434
00:30:45.880 --> 00:30:49.480
differently for myself. I believe in
the educated gut. Part of why I

435
00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:53.160
was able to take Cosmo to number
one in newsstand sales and keep it there

436
00:30:53.240 --> 00:31:00.359
my fourteen years and increase circulation by
thirty percent was because I researched the hell

437
00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:04.599
out of my reader. I did
focus groups, I rated every single thing

438
00:31:04.640 --> 00:31:11.279
in the magazine, and it's that
kind of research that gives you an idea,

439
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:15.160
that fills your gut with information,
so when you go to make a

440
00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:21.039
decision, it's based on knowledge.
One of my funniest moments was not long

441
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:23.000
after I started, I took some
covers out to a shopping mall. I

442
00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:26.480
happened to be out of town.
I thought, what the heck. I

443
00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:27.839
took them out, and I asked
these women. I went up to them,

444
00:31:27.880 --> 00:31:30.559
I said, I'm the out of
Cosmo. I'm sure they thought I'd

445
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:37.039
just gotten out of an insane asylum
doing this in the mall. But I

446
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:41.079
said, can you tell me which
of these covers do you like the best?

447
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:45.759
And almost every single woman said to
me, what season is it?

448
00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:52.119
And I knew the clothes had to
be absolutely right for the season. I

449
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:57.119
didn't think that was as essential on
Cosmo covers because we weren't strictly a fashion

450
00:31:57.160 --> 00:32:04.119
magazine make good gut decisions about what
clothes to put on the cover, but

451
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:09.920
they based on information that I gathered
from my research. Well, I certainly

452
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:13.839
have been a research scal much of
my life, so that's a music to

453
00:32:13.880 --> 00:32:16.119
my ears. And I can also
understand why that would also give you a

454
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:20.519
really strong platform to work from in
order to take those smart risks. That

455
00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:24.279
makes a ton of sense to me, A ton of sense. Definitely awesome.

456
00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:27.559
I love the fact too, that
you would go into malls and actually

457
00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:30.680
just query people what do you think? I love that talk about gutsy that's

458
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:36.680
just fun. Yeah. Crazy woman
at the Crossgates mall called the police,

459
00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:43.039
call security exactly, but before they
arrived Kennabbott, ask you a few questions

460
00:32:43.079 --> 00:32:49.359
and I'd be well along that line. Really kind of one of the things

461
00:32:49.359 --> 00:32:52.799
that presence for me when you talked
about that is, you know, it

462
00:32:52.839 --> 00:32:55.640
seems to me like you're you are
fearless, you don't care what people think.

463
00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:02.119
And there's this whole thing about about
women being sensitive to people wanting people

464
00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:06.200
liking them. They want to be
liked, and so you have something in

465
00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:08.640
your book about rule number seven.
A gutsy girl doesn't need all the likes.

466
00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:12.680
So the first thing I want to
talk about is why do do you

467
00:33:12.759 --> 00:33:15.599
think that women do feel so strong
that they must be liked? What's behind

468
00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:22.319
that? Well, I'm not a
scientist, but I know from reading that

469
00:33:23.079 --> 00:33:32.000
we are hardwired to want to collaborate. We are mothers and nurturers, and

470
00:33:32.680 --> 00:33:40.759
relationships are important to us and that's
lovely. But let me just also say

471
00:33:42.119 --> 00:33:47.359
being liked at work is really powerful. I'm a big believer in being a

472
00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:53.200
charismatic boss. Look at the people
who have won the presidency over the last

473
00:33:54.000 --> 00:34:04.599
fifty years. It's the careismatic George
Bush's John Kennedy, those people who end

474
00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:10.039
up winning over the ones who are
stiff and uncharismatic. I really believe in

475
00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:14.679
the power of charisma and how important
it is to be liked, and I

476
00:34:14.679 --> 00:34:19.480
think that inspires people. But not
everybody's going to like you. There's going

477
00:34:19.559 --> 00:34:22.519
to be the woman that thinks you
remind her of the sister who bid off

478
00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:27.400
her barbie heads, and she is
not going to like you no matter what

479
00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:30.360
you do, and you just have
to let go of it. You have

480
00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:34.280
to say that I'm going to deal
with her professionally. I'm not going to

481
00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:37.800
let this be an issue. I'm
going to keep the emotion out, but

482
00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:42.400
I'm not going to worry anymore about
trying to make her like me, because

483
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:49.400
that's not going to happen here.
And I also see women sometimes so needy

484
00:34:49.480 --> 00:34:52.719
to be like that they get into
please or habits like smiling too much or

485
00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:59.159
nodding too much. And it's good
to check yourself at the end of the

486
00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:01.960
day and say, how how much
do my cheeks hurt from smiling too much?

487
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:07.440
Am I nodding too much? Just
playing at neutral sometimes and letting the

488
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:14.199
other side wonder a little bit can
be very effective. Kate, again,

489
00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:19.239
what a great point. I so
appreciate how you distinguished why being charismatic and

490
00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:22.280
liked works for us, and how
if we're working at it too much doesn't

491
00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:25.719
work for us. I just think
that's great for our listeners and for me,

492
00:35:25.800 --> 00:35:30.360
thank you. There's a point where
you just say, Okay, I

493
00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:37.360
tried and it's not going to happen, So that's that's that's fine. Mm

494
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:42.519
hmmmm m. And then lastly,
on that particular point, this is something

495
00:35:42.599 --> 00:35:47.320
I see women struggle with. How
can we help women better accept criticism and

496
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:52.400
with courage and grace so it's not
so such a punch in the gut for

497
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:58.920
them. Criticism is so important.
It's your boss's opportunity or perhaps some colleagues

498
00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:05.440
opportunity to remind you of something that
you're doing that you may not be aware

499
00:36:05.440 --> 00:36:09.199
of. And I saw study ones
that said that high achieving people, often

500
00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:16.719
in general men and women, tend
not to acknowledge the negativity of certain things

501
00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:22.400
they do. And look at we're
in a world today where failure has gotten

502
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:25.840
such a bad name. We have
a setback at work, and our partners

503
00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:30.679
and our friends say, oh,
leave it behind, you, don't worry

504
00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:36.440
about it, move on. It's
really important to look at our failures and

505
00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:40.159
look at criticism, criticisms we've received
and learned from them, and say,

506
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:44.559
is there a pattern here? Am
I hearing the same thing over and over

507
00:36:44.599 --> 00:36:47.679
again? How can I fix this
so it doesn't sabotage me in the future.

508
00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:55.559
I saw study ones that said that
bosses sometimes stop offering their female subordinates

509
00:36:55.599 --> 00:37:00.639
as much criticism as they want to
that they think would be a feat because

510
00:37:00.679 --> 00:37:04.480
they get teary or defensive, and
you don't want that happen to happen.

511
00:37:05.119 --> 00:37:08.599
You want to know. So what
I think is helpful is if we can

512
00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:14.480
all reframe criticism as the gift that
allows us to be able when we respond

513
00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:17.239
to it, to become the people
we were meant to become. That I'm

514
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:22.679
all about self actualization and self realization, and so if we can look at

515
00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:28.559
criticisms that gift that helps us become
that amazing person we can become, I

516
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:31.159
think it's much easier to hear it. Yes, unless you've got an abusive

517
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:36.000
boss, and that those bosses should
be left immediately. Well, yes,

518
00:37:36.039 --> 00:37:38.960
I completely agree with that. Yes, okay, let's take another fast short

519
00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:43.679
break, our last one for this
particular show. I'm Alis Cortez, your

520
00:37:43.719 --> 00:37:45.360
host. We've been on the air
with Kate White, the New York Times

521
00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:51.079
bestselling author of twelve murder mysteries and
thrillers and several popular career books, including

522
00:37:51.159 --> 00:37:54.760
the Gutsy Girl handbook, Your Manifesto
for Success, based on her groundbreaking bestseller

523
00:37:54.800 --> 00:37:59.280
Why Good Girls Don't Get Ahead,
But Gutsy Girls Do. She joins us

524
00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:01.440
today from New York City. We've
been talking more about these rules and how

525
00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:05.880
they've been helping her in her life
and those other women around her. Will

526
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:08.800
continue the conversation after the break,
stay with us. Alis Cortes is a

527
00:38:08.840 --> 00:38:15.719
speaker and engagement and development catalyst.
She designs and delivers professional development, leadership

528
00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:20.440
and engagement workshops and can bring her
expertise to your organization. She will help

529
00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:25.400
ignite meaningful development within your workforce that
will increase employee engagement, performance and retention.

530
00:38:25.719 --> 00:38:30.320
To learn more or to invite Elise
to speak to your organization, please

531
00:38:30.440 --> 00:38:36.119
visit her at www dot elisecortes dot
com. She would welcome the opportunity to

532
00:38:36.119 --> 00:38:46.400
help get your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with Elise

533
00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:52.960
Cortes. To reach our program today, send an email to a lease Alic

534
00:38:52.440 --> 00:39:00.719
at Elisecortes dot Com. Now back
to working on purpose if you're just tuning

535
00:39:00.760 --> 00:39:02.559
in. My guess is Kate White, the New York Times bestselling author of

536
00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:07.760
twelve murder mysteries and thrillers, in
several popular career books, including the Gutsy

537
00:39:07.800 --> 00:39:12.239
Girl handbook, Your Manifesto for Success, based on her groundbreaking bestseller Why Good

538
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:15.000
Girls Don't Get Ahead, But Gutsy
Girls Do. For fourteen years, Kate

539
00:39:15.079 --> 00:39:20.360
was the editor in chief of Cosmopolitan
Magazine, where she increased overall circulation by

540
00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:23.320
thirty percent and made Cosmo the number
one magazine in the US and single sales

541
00:39:23.320 --> 00:39:29.039
copy. I'm your host, Alis
Cortes. So for our last segment here,

542
00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:30.480
Kate, I just want to see
if we can get a few more

543
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:35.159
of those rules out on the table
here for our listeners here. And one

544
00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:37.360
of them that you talk about that
I'm intrigued with is is you say that

545
00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:43.480
a gutsy girl owns her excellence.
Why that's intriguing to me is that when

546
00:39:43.480 --> 00:39:45.960
I work with women that I coach, a lot of the feedback they get

547
00:39:46.079 --> 00:39:49.800
is when they claim their competence or
what they're good at, they're told that

548
00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:52.760
they're brash. So, first,
what's your response to that, Oh that

549
00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:59.519
bugs me. It's sure the pretty
too. We're not being told we're brash

550
00:39:59.559 --> 00:40:02.360
for being man's flame by a guy
who thinks he knows better than we do.

551
00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:09.039
Yes, exactly. The one thing
I would say if I heard the

552
00:40:09.159 --> 00:40:15.039
term brash a couple of times,
I would step back and look at how

553
00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:21.440
I'm going about it, because it
could be just certain phrases we're using or

554
00:40:21.800 --> 00:40:25.800
way we're presenting might be adding to
that and it may not be fair.

555
00:40:27.280 --> 00:40:32.519
But there's nothing wrong with a little
course correction if you feel that there just

556
00:40:32.679 --> 00:40:39.400
might be some ways that you present
that could be offensive. But I think

557
00:40:39.400 --> 00:40:45.039
for the most part today, when
women come across showing their power and their

558
00:40:45.079 --> 00:40:50.639
confidence, it's appealing. When you're
dealing with the right bosses and the right

559
00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:57.559
companies, it's valued. The big
mistake I see women making in terms of

560
00:40:57.599 --> 00:41:02.760
owning their excellence is not feeling ready
when they really are for stuff. There

561
00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:07.880
was a study that got mentioned in
books that women think they have to be

562
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:10.920
one hundred percent ready to go after
a job and guys only sixty percent,

563
00:41:12.039 --> 00:41:15.440
And someone very interestingly showed there's no
study. It was a journalist who did

564
00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:19.559
a story on this, and I
had tried to find the very same study

565
00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:22.039
after I read about it and lean
in there's no such study, but it

566
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:27.559
was extrapolated from a remark a guy
from McKinsey maid. But I think he's

567
00:41:27.639 --> 00:41:30.480
right. We think we have to
be one hundred percent ready, and owning

568
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:37.039
our excellence is accepting that for a
big new job or promotion, no one

569
00:41:37.119 --> 00:41:42.000
expects us to be one hundred percent
ready. It's always going to be of

570
00:41:42.039 --> 00:41:46.239
a bit of a stretch. So
own your excellence. Know that it's best

571
00:41:46.239 --> 00:41:51.239
to say yes even if you don't
feel one hundred percent ready, and then

572
00:41:51.559 --> 00:41:55.519
figure it out from there. Let
your motto be not ready, aim fire,

573
00:41:57.199 --> 00:42:00.440
but aim fire ready, and just
go for it. I love that,

574
00:42:00.559 --> 00:42:05.280
Kate. In fact, I'll tell
you I speak a lot to audiences

575
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:07.639
of women and women who are developing
their careers and their leadership, and one

576
00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:10.159
of the things I tell them is
that there's something we can learn from men,

577
00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:15.559
and that is that a man doesn't
even think twice about applying for a

578
00:42:15.639 --> 00:42:17.639
job. Let's say there's ten things
in that job that you're supposed to have

579
00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:22.400
for competencies or education or experience.
If he has, you know, four

580
00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:24.360
or five of them, he's going
to put his name in the hat.

581
00:42:24.760 --> 00:42:28.960
A woman, if she has seven
or eight, will go I'm not sure

582
00:42:28.960 --> 00:42:32.639
I'm missing a couple. Maybe I
shouldn't do it. And it's amazing to

583
00:42:32.679 --> 00:42:37.840
me. So the man applies and
he gets the job right. There's an

584
00:42:37.880 --> 00:42:42.199
executive coach that is a friend of
mine and I've interviewed over some of my

585
00:42:42.199 --> 00:42:45.840
books, and she was telling me
that in her business that it's so funny

586
00:42:45.880 --> 00:42:51.679
that if a woman is practically flown
in French, she'll put down she'll put

587
00:42:51.719 --> 00:42:57.519
on her resume some French where a
guy who had four years in college rights

588
00:42:57.599 --> 00:43:01.199
fluent in French. I know,
are just ballsy that way, and we

589
00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:07.480
should absolutely steal a page from that. That's what I say too, Absolutely

590
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:10.159
absolutely well. One of the other
great things that you have in your book

591
00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:14.679
that I just think is just so
great for women to really focus on in

592
00:43:14.719 --> 00:43:17.679
their careers about You've got four points
and how them can increase their cloud,

593
00:43:17.719 --> 00:43:22.239
starting with driving profitability. Now,
I don't know how anybody can argue with

594
00:43:22.280 --> 00:43:25.559
that, So will you say a
few things about how women can increase their

595
00:43:25.599 --> 00:43:30.320
cloud. Let me first say one
of the mistakes we make once we are

596
00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:37.400
successful is to start resting on our
warrels a little bit, not intentionally,

597
00:43:37.480 --> 00:43:43.960
but we get busy. You need
to be evaluating regularly. Do I need

598
00:43:44.039 --> 00:43:49.519
to up my presence here? Do
I need to remind people of my cloud?

599
00:43:49.559 --> 00:43:53.480
Am I involved enough? And what
I need involved in? And one

600
00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:59.719
of the big cloud factors is are
you really doing stuff that is saving the

601
00:43:59.719 --> 00:44:04.880
cump any money or driving profitability?
And if you're not, if you're just

602
00:44:05.039 --> 00:44:07.800
pushing some papers around, you need
to go back to the drawing board and

603
00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:14.199
figure out how you're going to do
that. Another one is feeling entitled to

604
00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:22.239
information that you in a company.
It's really important. Particularly there's a really

605
00:44:22.280 --> 00:44:24.199
interesting you know, I know we
don't have a time by some research that

606
00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:30.400
shows that one of the reasons women
aren't picked for leadership positions is that they

607
00:44:30.519 --> 00:44:35.119
don't have business acumen. In terms
of the company, you should be reading

608
00:44:35.119 --> 00:44:43.079
the annual report, listening in on
earning calls, and just getting a sense

609
00:44:43.119 --> 00:44:46.800
of what are the big company goals
and how can I be a part of

610
00:44:46.840 --> 00:44:52.639
achieving them. You want to build
alliances as part of increasing your cloud.

611
00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:55.760
This is a time where you should
be really getting to know people and other

612
00:44:55.840 --> 00:45:00.320
departments supporting them, so they support
you. And just back to what I

613
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:05.559
said before, be not just a
change agent, be a risk agent.

614
00:45:05.960 --> 00:45:10.920
Look for ways to disrupt, to
bring freshness and bold ideas into your company.

615
00:45:13.239 --> 00:45:16.239
That was golden. I think you're
right that so many women don't really

616
00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:20.360
have the business acumen that they need. And I think the alliances you talked

617
00:45:20.360 --> 00:45:22.239
about was so important because a lot
of those people are going to be the

618
00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:27.920
people that help usher you in and
up in organizations, those alliances, and

619
00:45:27.960 --> 00:45:30.880
they take time and attention, Yeah, they do. So don't make the

620
00:45:30.920 --> 00:45:36.920
mistake of burrowing in at your death
and keeping your nose close to the grindstone.

621
00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:40.400
That can look like it works because
it worked maybe when you were in

622
00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:45.840
ninth grade, but it doesn't work
in the business world. You need to

623
00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:50.920
be aware of your presence and the
company and what it's saying and what your

624
00:45:51.079 --> 00:45:55.599
role is viewed at. So step
back and look at that. I want

625
00:45:55.639 --> 00:45:59.199
to give you a chance to maybe
close the show with this, if you

626
00:45:59.239 --> 00:46:02.480
will. We talk a lot about
the show about leadership helping companies grow and

627
00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:07.719
change, and you've got something in
there about a gut's girl becomes a kick

628
00:46:07.719 --> 00:46:12.440
ass boss. So what do you
mean by that? It's pretty much what

629
00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:19.920
anyone would tell you. You want
to be clear about your vision. You

630
00:46:19.960 --> 00:46:22.719
want to revisit your vision frequently,
you want to share it. You want

631
00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:27.519
to set standards for the people who
work for you. You want to reward

632
00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:30.280
them but most and you want to
be a good listener. So important.

633
00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:34.960
But I think for me, one
of the things that I really enjoyed so

634
00:46:35.079 --> 00:46:38.960
much at COSMO was being the kind
of boss that I felt fierce devotion from

635
00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:43.920
the people who work for me.
And so many of those people are still

636
00:46:44.360 --> 00:46:50.519
in my life as friends and mentees. And you do that by making them

637
00:46:50.519 --> 00:46:54.320
feel passionate about the mission and what
they are going to learn from the mission.

638
00:46:54.639 --> 00:47:00.079
And even though I knew sometimes I
was doing this giving away some of

639
00:47:00.840 --> 00:47:05.239
the house secrets to people who would
go on and run other magazines. I

640
00:47:05.360 --> 00:47:08.960
shared my philosophy with them, I
told them what I thought was a winning

641
00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:15.400
cover line, I shared some of
the research. So they felt this job

642
00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:20.159
was of value to them because they
were really learning a ton and could use

643
00:47:20.199 --> 00:47:23.360
it, love it, and go
on from there and be a success in

644
00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:28.239
a bigger way someplace else. One
day, you contributed them and you made

645
00:47:28.239 --> 00:47:31.079
them bigger than they were than before
they found you. Yes, and there

646
00:47:31.199 --> 00:47:37.400
is something so rewarding about that.
My former number two is now the editor

647
00:47:37.400 --> 00:47:39.840
in chief of Cosmopolity, and I
just dropped her an email today. I

648
00:47:39.920 --> 00:47:45.039
just loved this woman. She was
just so fantastic and the fact that I

649
00:47:45.119 --> 00:47:49.639
get to still have her in my
life in a way so rewarding. And

650
00:47:50.360 --> 00:47:54.079
one day somebody told me that three
women who were editors in chief who would

651
00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:59.199
work for me ran into each other
at an event and they laughingly said,

652
00:47:59.320 --> 00:48:06.880
yeah, we went to editor in
chief camp under boot camp under Kate White.

653
00:48:07.239 --> 00:48:10.880
And that's what I love. The
idea that people saw is that if

654
00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:15.480
I work for her, I'm going
to be an editor in chief one day.

655
00:48:15.199 --> 00:48:19.800
Oh my gosh, that's what you
want to do as a boss.

656
00:48:19.840 --> 00:48:22.679
You want people to think this is
good for me. I love the mission

657
00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:28.239
here, but it's also a value
to me in terms of my career.

658
00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:32.320
And you can let them in on
your thinking so they walk out of your

659
00:48:32.360 --> 00:48:38.119
office going she just shared with me
her best cover line writing tip, or

660
00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:44.159
she just shared for me what kind
of celebrity really sells on the cover.

661
00:48:44.280 --> 00:48:46.400
And I'm going to be able to
use that one day when I compete against

662
00:48:46.480 --> 00:48:51.639
her. Oh my gosh, what
a great way to finish the show.

663
00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:53.679
Kate, what a gift you are. I thank you so much for coming

664
00:48:53.760 --> 00:48:58.400
on the show, sharing your wisdom, your passion, your expertise with the

665
00:48:58.440 --> 00:49:01.760
listenership, and me say thank you. Alisa was wonderful. I bet you

666
00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:07.360
were just the most fabulous guide for
women and coach for women, and boy,

667
00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:10.679
I'd love to be one of your
clients one day. Other way around,

668
00:49:10.760 --> 00:49:15.360
Kate, I'm gonna keep I'm gonna
keep after you, so listeners.

669
00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:17.239
If you want to learn more about
Kate White and her numerous books and what

670
00:49:17.320 --> 00:49:22.599
she's up to, visit her website. It's www dot Kate White speaks dot

671
00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:27.360
com. That's Kate White speaks dot
com. Join us next week when we

672
00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:30.880
talk with Gwynn Rich, who is
truly working on purpose as she continues to

673
00:49:30.920 --> 00:49:34.880
live, as she says, past
her expiration date as a breast cancer battler.

674
00:49:35.119 --> 00:49:37.159
We'll be talking about what women can
do to prevent cancer and how she

675
00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:42.159
is living a legacy for others in
her closing days on the planet. See

676
00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:44.599
you then, remember that work is
at least one third of our life,

677
00:49:44.679 --> 00:49:49.400
So let's work on Purpose. Well, you hope you've enjoyed this week's program.

678
00:49:49.800 --> 00:49:52.800
Be sure to tune in to Working
on Purpose, featuring your host Alis

679
00:49:52.880 --> 00:49:59.280
Cortes, each week on the Voice
America Empowerment Channel. This week, find

680
00:49:59.360 --> 00:50:00.440
your life's purpose at work.