UP to Something in Life? Reach for Your Inner Sisu

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What's working on purpose anyway? Each
week we ponder the answer to this question.

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People ache for meaning and purpose at
work, to contribute their talents passionately

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and know their lives really matter.
They crave being part of an organization that

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inspires them and helps them grow into
realizing their highest potential. Business can be

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such a force for good in the
world, elevating humanity. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration to help
usher in this world we all want.

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Working on Purpose. Now Here is
your host, Doctor Elise Cortez.

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Welcome back to the Working on Purpose
Show. Thanks for tuning in again this

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week. I'm your host, doctor
Elise Cortez, joining you live from Dallas,

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Texas, which is home based for
me. If you've been tuning in

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for a while, you know this
program is an inspirational thought leadership platform that

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advances the conversation on living and working
with passion, inspiration, and purpose.

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I'm committed to helping create a world
where business and capitalism are a force for

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good, constantly working to address the
immense number of problems society faces all serving

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stakeholders. The GALP Organization reports that
eighty five percent of the global workforce does

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not want to go to work on
Monday or whenever the shift starts. Let's

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change that together and instead make work
and enriching part of life that expresses meaningful

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contribution and helps us grow into our
highest selves, all in service of the

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organization's purpose. Each week in these
conversations, I hope you walk away with

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something that changes the way you think
or that you can immediately put to use

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in your life. Much of the
content we discuss in this program is a

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reflection of the work I do.
So as you listen, if you catch

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a glimpse of anything I can do
to help, go to my website at

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at least Cortez dot com and use
the contact me feature to message me.

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Let's talk about what's going on for
you and how I might be able to

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help, whether it's consulting on visioneering
for a greater purpose among your stakeholders,

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a vitally inspired leadership program, the
online catch fire learning communities, or speaking

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for your company or conference at any
rate, I'm glad or connected, and

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thanks for listening. Now on to
this week's pro am with us today is

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Justin Barnes, author of c SU
Find Your Resilience The Finish Way and also

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the book called Eca Guy, Discover
Your Reason for Being, a book Key

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and I discussed on ever a few
months ago. Today we'll be talking about

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this finished concept of c Sue he's
been investigating and how we can nurture it

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in our personal and professional lives to
find our own resilience. If you're up

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to something in life, you can
definitely stand in, nurture and leverage a

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little CESU. Justin joins it today
from Hastings, which is on the south

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coast of England. Justin, welcome
back to Working on Purpose. Hello,

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nice talking to you again. It's
wonderful to have you back. You know.

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One of the greatest things about being
this host of this program is that

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I get to connect with authors like
you all over the world who are up

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to something. Justin and I really
appreciate that, So thank you for staying

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in my sphere. Yeah. Well, it's really nice nice to talk to

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you too, because I do listen
to your I listen to your program as

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well, and it's yeah, I
pick up some interesting tips from it myself.

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So it's good to talk to you. Good. Thank you. Likewise,

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well, among other passions that I
have, I think you and I

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you, and I've discussed this before, but I'm an identity and a meaning

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researcher, So I want to start
by just presencing for our listeners who you

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are. So imagine you're coming into
maybe a cocktail party or a brand new

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or something right, a conference or
whatever it might be, justin how would

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you introduce yourself to someone so that
they understood really who you are? Yeah,

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well, I suppose I mean as
a work wise, I'm a writer.

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I mean as a person, I
suppose. I think generally I've been

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brought up to sort of count my
blessings of it. You know, I

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don't have from a particularly well or
family, but but we always sort of

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told, you know, we're you
know, we're quite lucky in life.

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And I think that's always made me
feel like in work particularly, you know,

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to try and be encouraging to other
people. When I've I used to

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work as a magazine editor, and
you know, we had young me interns

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and people coming in. I always
tried to sort of help, you know,

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even even when I was sort of
in charge. I was, I'm

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one of those I would try and
help to lift people up rather than sort

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of put them in their place.
If you know something. I think I'm

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quite as I've the last few years
i've been a writer working from home,

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so I think I've become quite sort
of live in my own head a bit

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these days, I think, which
which has its pluses, but also I

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think it means you have to be
careful about that because you have to sort

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of push out and you know,
get other hear other voices. You know,

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I think I've got a capacity to
be quite driven at times, but

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I've also got capacity incredibly lazy,
so you know, and I can you

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know, I can go from one
extreme to the other. You know.

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Sometimes when I'm writing a book,
I've got a deadline and you know,

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I've got to write fifty thousand words
and two or three weeks, which I've

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had to do at times. You
know, I don't think I can do

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it, but I get it done. And then other times I think I

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couldn't even manage to write you a
couple of hundred words in an hour.

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So yeah, I don't know.
I think as a person, I'm a

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bit I have to. I think
I can be a bit resistant to change

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and then occasionally very adventurous. I'll
just do something which people go, wow,

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what made you do that. So
I think, yeah, I think

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I always have to make a bit
of an effort, conscious effort to challenge

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that kind of slightly that resistance in
me that I know that I can,

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you know, because sometimes I know
that sometimes when I may big changes,

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there are the things that brought some
really good things into my life. So

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yeah, I think that's that's one
of the things. And lastly, i'd

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sort of say, as I get
older, the more I sort of learn,

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I mean, we're luckily with my
work. I really enjoy with things

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like these the Sissue book, and
I could go, but is you know,

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learning about things I didn't know about
before. And but the more you

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learn, the sort of the more
you realize how little you know, which

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is really so, you know,
I just think, yeah, I think

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it makes me think, well,
I've got to open my mind and be

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much more open minded always, And
you have to develop a sort of problem

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solving mentality because life, you know, it just is never simple. It's

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always obstacles. And actually that's where
the C sue concept comes in, because

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that is very much about you know, how you can confront problems and solve

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them. Well, okay, so
first let me just acknowledge what you just

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did for us, Justin is exactly
the reason I start with. Sometimes I

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don't always ask that question first,
but just it gives us access to you

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and really opens the conversation in an
authentic way. So that's perfect. Thank

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you for that. Now I've just
on the heels of what you just said

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here, I want to presence the
promise of this conversation today, which is

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your book, and you say in
the very beginning, you say, c

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Sue engenders a gritty, can do
spirit where purpose leads to action and surrendering

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tamely when the going gets tough doesn't
cross your mind. And by nurturing it

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in our daily lives, we can
become more resilient, better problem solvers,

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and what once might seem highly improbable
becomes feasible. That is a fantastic promise

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to start with. Can you comment
and add to that? Yeah, well,

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so, I mean is a finished
concept, but it's it's really a

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bit like guy. It's it's just
they've got a name for it, if

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you understand. And when I was
researching you know that everyone had their slightly

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different take on it. But basically
it's a kind of it's a mindset that

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refrange challenges as opportunities to sort to
grow and get better, to get stronger,

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And it's it's a mindset that helps
you to pursue solutions with sort of

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tenacity and be creative in the way
you approach things. I mean to just

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to sort of I don't have to
define define what's this is. I think

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the best way to describe it is
when you know you have those sort of

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moments in your life where you just
have nothing left, you know, physically

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or mentally. It could be it
could be at work where you know you're

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you're on a project, you've really
had enough of it, but you've got

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a deadline to me, you've got
to finish it that night, and you've

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you've tired physically, and you've got
problems at home or whatever. But you

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some and you think you've got nothing
left, but you you always find a

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way to do it. So that
is this kind of like this is hidden

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energy that you've got make you have
more capabilities than you actually thought you had

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in the first place if you don't. So that's kind of what CEO is.

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It's it's actually sort of saying,
well, actually, with more capable

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than maybe we thought, and it
helps you to sort of push through adversity

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well and Justin, that is exactly
why I wanted to have you back on

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the show. When you told me
what this next book was, after you

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and I talked about your ECA Guy
book, I said, oh, my

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gosh, that is perfect because so
many of my listeners come to this show

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Justin because they're up to something.
They're trying to get to whatever next is

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for them, whether that's pursuing their
purpose, whether that's going for the next

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level of leadership in their career,
whether that's starting a new business. They're

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up to something, and I wanted
to give them the gift of c SU

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and you to help them on their
way. And that's why I wanted to

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have you back. Yeah, oh
great. Okay, So the next thing

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I have to ask you, since
I know you are a prolific author,

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I don't remember exactly what the number
is, but you'll tell us. I

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think it's over sixty books that you've
written. Yeah, yeah, I sort

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of. I think I've written or
edited about over seventy, maybe even eighteen

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now, but I think I've written
about thirty thirty five. I'm not too

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sure, but yeah, okay,
Okay, so then now we have to

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ask then, well, then,
how in the world did the c S

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book come about? Yeah, well
I did, As you know, I

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was asked to do the Ikey Guy
book a couple of years ago, and

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I think that was part of a
series of philosophy books, a Japanese philosophy

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book series that the publishers were doing, and I think it went very well

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from what I understand and the Icky
Guy, but they translated into I think

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I've got about six or seven languages
at home, so it did quite well,

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and they they sort of said,
well, yeah, would you be

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interested in doing another one? And
this time we're doing an audit philosophy book

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series, and c SU was one
of the topics. There's another one was

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called Free Loose Sleeve, which is
all about the benefits of a free fresh

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air and life life outside. But
yeah, I chose to do the CC

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one. And the reason really was
because actually I haven't done Nicky Guy.

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If you remember. That was all
about finding your purpose and looking at you

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know, trying to work it out
by sort of gauging the things you love,

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the things you're good at, the
things you can get paid for,

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and the things that the world needs
and trying to get a balance of those

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things. And C Suit is kinds
So that's kind of like finding your meaning

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and your purpose, and C.
Sue is kind of about giving you the

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inner strength to act on it and
pushed through to actually achieve those goals.

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So it actually it was quite a
nice It linked really well to what I've

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been doing before. Yeah, beautifully. I would say thank you for that.

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All right. Now, I have
read the books, as I am

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prone to do cover to cover at
somebody, one of my friends who knows

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me really well, he says,
you know, at least what I've realized

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about you is you're a radio show
host with a reading problem. I am

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right, So I'm constantly I'm getting
the opportunity to read amazing works like yours.

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So I've read your book cover to
cover and it's beautiful. The photos

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are beautiful, the message is beautiful. But for our listeners who haven't quite

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picked it up yet, tell us
about the history behind the sissue as a

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finished concept. Yeah, yeah,
I should just credit my editor, Anna

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south Gate, who did a brilliant
job on the picture research, because it's

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a lot of the As you know, the concepts are quite sort of subjective

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and quite difficult to illustrate, but
I thought she did a really fantastic job

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on that. But yeah, the
history behind the CC concept, so the

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first sort of written instances I could
find of it it were in the fifteen

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hundreds, and the media the word
seems to have evolved over the years.

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In the eighteenth century, the Finish
there was an eighteenth century Finished Dictionary and

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it deflied it defines C two as
a place in the human body where strong

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emotions originates. So it was kind
of associated with guts in this so it's

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a more emotional thing, but I
think nowadays it's more of a it's more

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seen as a mindset. But the
way it's manifested itself in Finnish culture,

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there's been some one of the most
famous events in the history of the country.

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Because Finland, you may or may
not know, it was always being

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invaded. It was always under threat
from countries nearby. Soviet Union was on

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its doorstep, and in the nineteenth
third forty Winter War, Soviet Union invaded.

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Soviet Union invaded Finland, and they
had three times as many soldiers,

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a hundred times more tanks, thirty
times more aircraft, and yet somehow the

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Finns managed to fend them off.
Their soldiers were known as the Finnish phantoms

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because they'd sort of worked they worked
out well. It's obviously they were fighting

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in snow and they wore this camouflage
white gear, and so they were sort

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of lost in the landscape and managed
to to somehow hold off. This is

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not you know, this this the
Soviet Union, and they were much much

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stronger military than them. So there
was that. That was one example of

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how they're kind of there, they're
sort of sisu helped them to survive.

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I think there was a I'm just
trying to finance I've got the book gear.

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There was a there was a quote
from in the New York Times just

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after that where it said the Finns
have something they called sisu. It's a

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compound of bravado and bravery and ferocity
and tenacity of the ability to keep fighting

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after most people would have quit,
and to fight with the will to win.

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So that's quite that's quite a good
definition of it. So yeah,

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there's a and I think looking to
the present, what's been what's been apparent

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in Finland was a pretty poor country
in the early part of the twentieth century

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and it is now well the last
two years it's been ranked number one as

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in the United Nations World Happiness Report, which is an overall scale of well

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being. So it's wealth, but
it's not just that it's well being and

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on lots of indicators, it's it
performs better than other countries. And they

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they've they've worked towards that and and
finished. People will tell you that this

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kind of CSU spirit has helped them
to make that transformation. And again,

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you know, Justin, why why
would I want to position this when I'm

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out speaking to audiences. How much
of my message is you have one precious

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life? What are you going to
do with it? I need you to

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nurture your passion, your inspiration,
your purpose and then bring it right.

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So if you, if SISU becomes
the motivating force behind bringing it, that's

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what I want to help presence for
our listeners. So thank you for sharing

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that history because it does help us
really understand the just the as I love

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the word ferocity, the ferocity and
fortitude of the concept. So with that,

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let's grab our first break. I'm
your host, Elise Cortez. We

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went on the air with Justin Barnes, who is the author of Sissu Find

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Your Resilience The Finish Way and also
the book called Ikey Guy, Discover Your

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Reason for Being. He joins us
today from Hastings, which is in the

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southern part of England. We've been
talking about really where this concept came from,

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why he decided to write the book, and how it can help our

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lives. After the wake, we're
going to talk about how to nurture it

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in our life and our work.
Stay with us, we'll be right back.

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Doctor Release Cortez is a management consultant
specializing in me meaning and purpose and

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inspirational speaker and author. She helps
companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and

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develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused
cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

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commitment within the workforce. To learn
more or to invite a lease to speak

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00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:22.759
to your organization, please visit her
at Elise Cortez dot com. Let's talk

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about how to get your employees working
on purpose. This is working on Purpose

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with doctor Elise Cortez. To reach
our program today or open a conversation with

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Elise, send an email to Elise
Alis at Elise Cortez dot Com. Now

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00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:54.679
back to working on Purpose. Thanks
for staying with us, and welcome back

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to working on Purpose if you're just
joining us. My guest is Justin Barnes,

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the author of Sissu Find a Result
Against the Finnish Way and also the

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book called Eca Guy, Discover Your
Reason for Being. After belidly escaping the

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hustle of London life, he now
lives in a fifteenth century house in Hastings

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Oldtown on the south coast of England, where he pursues his Eca Guy and

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tries to nurture his inner se sue. I'm your host, Alice Cortez.

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I love that description of you,
Justin, and I just think that's so

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fun to talk about. So for
this next segment here again, as you

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know, Justin and listeners have been
listening for a while, I really try

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to make sure that people can walk
away with something they can immediately put to

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use by listening. So I want
to next surface for our listeners how we

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can use sissue in our lives.
And do you say in your book that

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it helps us survive periods of extreme
upheavals, and that certainly happens when we're

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going for something in life. So
if you could say a little something more

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about some of the ways that we
can help nurture sisue, I think,

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you know, if you're experiencing something
intense, to talk about intense upheaval,

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I think there's finished. People are
known to be quite calm on people,

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quite understated, and I think there's
a value in that sometimes when everyone's going

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crazy. I mean at the moment
here, I'm sure in the States as

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well, we're having this panic about
coronavirus, and there's only certain let things

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that you can control about that.
You know, you can control your behavior,

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clean your hands, and you know, avoid certain things. So it's

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kind of I think it's about some
there's some clear thinking involved in it,

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having a plan. I think there's
also about The thing that I thought was

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quite interesting with Finland is their climate
is so eight months of the year they

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have it's dark and nothing really grows, and there's this sort of idea that

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but no, but spring will come. So even when things I kind of

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like that sort of metaphoric, even
when things are going, you know,

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quite dark, they know if they
do prepare correctly it eventually things will get

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better. So that's quite a an
important thing Also, I think it's about

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having a bit of an agile mindset, it I was, I really listened

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with interest to your guest Tom Holsey
then and cancer survivor you spoke to,

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and it was interesting because obviously he
was a very fit guy and he needed

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that kind of rigid mindset to push
through. You know, he's he's Ironman

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task. But then he said that
when he had to battle cancer, he

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had to sort of change a little
bit and adapt. And I think that's

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a that's part of ces as well. It's although it's his persistence, but

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you know, if if something's not
working, you need to change. You

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need to change your direction and work
in a different way. And there's a

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quote in the book from a physicist
called Niels Bore and he says that every

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great and deep difficulty bears in itself
its own solution. It forces us to

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change our thinking in order to find
it. So sometimes what you're truck,

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the challenge that faces you, your
your thing, he has to adapt to

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meet it, if you should understand
what I'm saying. So yeah, I

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think I think another side of it, I think is c to sort of

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an educated optimism. You know,
hope is a great starting point. You

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know, you need to be hopeful, but it's not enough. You have

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to have a plan. You have
to have a strategy, which again kinds

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of links a bit back to the
to the ekey guy, I think.

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And then you have to act,
which is the sort the CCU part.

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You have to actually take action.
So I think that that's the sort of

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the main sort of things I would
think would be useful on that beautiful justin.

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I love that, And I was
as you were speaking, the first

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thing that was going through my mind
is the importance of cultivating more of an

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optimistic mindset, which does bring me
to the next thing I wanted to talk

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about, which is you do say, and I think it's chapter five that

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there is a symbiotic relationship between a
sysium mindset and our physical and mental well

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being. So I really appreciate as
a systems thinker, how that's all coordinated

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and combined and connected. Will you
see a little bit more about that symbiotic

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relationship. Definitely. Well, there
was a finished guy called Vicav Gustafson and

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he was the first fin to climb
Everest in nineteen ninety three, and he

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has a son named Csu, which
I thought was brilliant. Yes, I

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said, read that in the books
amazing. But one of the things he

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says is that to remember that the
biggest obstacles are between our ears, what

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we tell ourselves, and if you're
uncomfortable, to treat it as an experience.

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But in terms of the sort of
physical and mental world being side,

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I'm personally, I find physical exercises
really important to my mental health, you

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know, And there are days where
I feel lazy, I don't want to

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do my sort of exercise. I'll
go for a run or whatever. But

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I sort of pushed myself to do
it because I know that I will feel

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better for doing it. And I
think that's the kind of knowledge that you

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need to have with SSU. The
Fins are famous for taking dips in freezing

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lakes. Finland has eight hundred and
eighty eight thousand lakes, and you think,

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quite they're mad. You know,
they'll go and dip in a lake

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which is like nearly frozen, and
then they go out and have a sauna.

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But there are loads of health benefits
associated with that, as long as

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you don't have a heart condition.
Don't do this without talking to your doctor

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first, you said the book,
Yeah, but a lot of things do

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really benefit from it, and you
can even do it. I mean I've

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actually, since I've read read the
book, I've taken to sort of do

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it at home. When I have
a shell, I give it a quick

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blast of cold water as well as
to kind of you know, it jolts

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you into it jolts you to life, definitely. But I've been sort of

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thinking about how I think when you
were talking to Tom, you were saying

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about you were doing an adventure race
and you're like one hundred races. It's

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a two hundred kilometer race in Bhutan
that takes place over six days or stages

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in early June of this year.
So that's assuming that I still good to

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go because of what's happening with the
coronavirus. But yes, I'm training for

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that. I'm doing my part.
Yeah, but that's what. That's what.

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But that's all you can do even
though you're not sure. I mean,

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actually, I'm planning to a half
marathon in a couple of weeks,

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but I've got an injury at the
moment, and I sort of thinking,

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oh, well, you know,
it's quite quite I'm thinking, well,

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I might not be able to do
it. But when I was sort of

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had this, I had this injury
came up a couple of weeks ago,

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and so I thought, well,
what can I do? And I just

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happened to be reading a book by
my sister's father in law. Was a

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very good athlete. He died a
couple of years ago, and as a

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tribute they released a book that he
wrote fifty years ago called four Million Footsteps,

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and he basically broke the world record
for running across America on foot.

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He did it in sixty six days. I mean forty three miles a day.

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It's crazy. But there were days
when he had a bit of an

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injury and he'd have to just walk. As you know, he wouldn't do

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as many miles he'd had to.
He'd have to improvise. There were times

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when he was having a little injury, and I thought, that's quite a

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good thing to think of when when
things are not quite going right, which

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happens a lot in life, you
have to think your way around it.

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And he always stayed fixed on the
goal. He was going to do it

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no matter what, and he actually
managed, he managed to break the record

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and do it, and when he
finished, he didn't have any injury.

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He managed to just manage it.
So I think that was quite of a

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thought that that stuck with me in
terms of my half math and training.

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Well, I think my half math
and seems quite tiny compared to what you're

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planning to do. Well, So
you service this beautifully, just because I

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was going to bring up the Bhutan
race that I'm running, because one of

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the things that intrigued me as I
was reading your book is in which aligns

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with my work and logo therapy.
So for listeners who don't know what loco

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therapy is, it's really a philosophical
approach to healing through meaning or giving motivation

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and meaning through meaning. So there's
this You've got this phrase in the book

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that says the cistu concept is a
recognition that human beings need to experience challenges

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to feel fully alive and thrive.
I completely endorse that. In fact,

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so much of the work that I'm
doing is trying to help people to get

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motivated and encouraged to go for things
that are beyond their comfort zone because I

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know doing so enlivens them and grows
them. So you and I are just

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speaking about half marathon, my Bhutan
race fits nicely into that. And my

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challenge as a professional justin is helping
people to find ways to catalyze that that

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desire. I think, well,
I think if you don't test yourself,

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you do regress a bit. There's
a fantastic quote I've always loved from a

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Box Xbox Marvelous Marvin Hagler, who's
actually called marvelous Marvin Hagler that he's not

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a nickname names. I thought it
was amazing you have to address him as

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marvelous, not just Marvin. But
he had this quote where he was talking

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about when he decided to retire,
and he said, you know, it's

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tough to get out of bed and
do your rope work at five am when

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you when you've been sleeping in silk
pajamas. And I think there's an element

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that you know, there is a
point if you get too comfortable, you

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don't do the work anymore. And
that's fine. You know that someone like

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him, he achieved a lot,
and he greets the stage where had enough

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and you have to enjoy your successes, but then you have to find something

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else. I think a lot of
people who have success earlier in life,

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you know, they do sometimes find
a bit of a lack afterwards. But

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yeah, for what those you have
and they're still looking. But you have

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to sort of push yourself otherwise you
are you will you'll lose your way a

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00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:10.559
little bit. Yeah, you know
to one way. You know, you

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need to sort of exercise that csue
muscle, challenge yourself because we are capable

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of more than we think we are
always I think so so so true,

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and that really gives me the next
thing I really want to surface for our

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listeners. And that gets to the
notion of action. And this is all

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great as a philosophy, but now
we've got to put it into action to

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make it actually make a difference in
our lives. And so you offer in

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the book that we can cultivate sitsue
each day in just simple ways to incubate

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an action mindset. So something as
simple as resolving and following through and finally

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having that difficult conversation you've been putting
off is an example of what you're talking

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about. And I think it's important
for us to presence for our listeners what

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we mean by instilling daily action towards
I guess actualizing the sue concept. Can

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you give us a couple more examples, Well, I think, for me,

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one thing and I don't always do
this, and I kicked myself and

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tried to is you know, get
into the habit of doing it. You

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know, I always am a bit
of a list maker, and there's usually

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a few couple of things on that
list that they keep getting pushed down,

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and you've got to get into the
habit of taking those on the first do

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it, first thing in the day, because if you get that done,

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everything's downhill after that. If you
do that, you make that conversation you've

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00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:23.920
been or some email that you've got
to write, or you know, or

402
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there's a particular job I do a
lot of copy writing. There might be

403
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a bit of something I've been putting
off, you know. And in other

404
00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:34.559
ways, there might be some some
things you've had in the background. You

405
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might thought, oh, I was
going to volunteer for a community project,

406
00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:42.000
or maybe you were going to do
a mentoring scheme or something a company to

407
00:26:42.039 --> 00:26:45.759
help some of the younger people there. Or there's a diy job that you've

408
00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:48.799
been putting off, or you started
and haven't finished. You know, just

409
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:52.599
just go ahead and do it and
face the problem. And actually, but

410
00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:55.799
when you get involved in it,
and I find this often with work.

411
00:26:56.279 --> 00:26:59.119
I mean, I'm funny enough actually
when I when I was doing my writing

412
00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:02.440
the sisue, but there were times
when I was thinking, have I actually

413
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:04.240
got CC? Because I was struggling
a bit. It was a new concept

414
00:27:04.279 --> 00:27:08.119
to me and I was trying to
understand it. And then, as you

415
00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:11.599
know, the book is kind of
it's sort of sixty or seventy sort of

416
00:27:11.599 --> 00:27:15.400
bite sized things. Although you can
read the whole book from front cover,

417
00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:18.160
you can just dip in, so
each each sort of page has to kind

418
00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:22.000
of have some you know, a
message to it. And I was something,

419
00:27:22.039 --> 00:27:23.000
oh no, and I was sort
of laughing at myself. I thought,

420
00:27:23.079 --> 00:27:27.680
or maybe I haven't got the CC
to do right, So you know

421
00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:30.519
it is about but of course I
got through it, and you know,

422
00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:36.559
you just had The answer is always
to just get more knowledge, work and

423
00:27:36.559 --> 00:27:41.559
work at it until you can understand
and don't don't be put off. Well

424
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:44.880
probably comes this later, but like
you know, fear of failure can be

425
00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:48.599
a problem, and yeah, that's
something you need to be really a well

426
00:27:48.680 --> 00:27:53.880
of because failures are important to actually
achieving anything. M Yes it is and

427
00:27:53.960 --> 00:27:59.200
facing it and well and being the
fear that comes with it, to be

428
00:27:59.240 --> 00:28:00.720
able to just simply to embrace it
and know that when you're up to something

429
00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:04.440
in life, you're probably going to
feel fear and that's okay, that's natural

430
00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:08.519
and normal. That the opportunity is
just simply just accept that it's there and

431
00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:14.240
then ignore it. Right. So, so now, for I know that

432
00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:17.519
there are listeners that are right on
the line now listening in this going,

433
00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:19.519
yeah, this all sounds really interesting. But comme on, folks, I'm

434
00:28:19.559 --> 00:28:25.200
a realist or I'm a pessimist,
and I think that works really well for

435
00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:30.440
me. So for our reluctant or
naysayers listening in, why would anyone not

436
00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:33.440
want to try to infuse to suit
injured their lives? Do you suppose is

437
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:37.440
there a downside? Well? I
think the plus both. The danger is

438
00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:41.400
if you are just unstoppable, there
is a danger of not knowing when to

439
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:45.680
stop, and there is sometimes there
are a charge. If you're just plowing

440
00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:49.480
down the same path and making this
and not getting anywhere, that is the

441
00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:52.640
that's a sign that you know,
I think there's a I would say,

442
00:28:52.720 --> 00:28:55.599
isn't it You know, it's for
a kind of the work. But you

443
00:28:55.640 --> 00:28:56.799
know, if you keep doing the
same thing, it's not working. You

444
00:28:56.839 --> 00:29:02.240
know, that's not a good idea. So I think the Fins are known

445
00:29:02.279 --> 00:29:04.440
for having a bit of a Lutheran
work ethic. But there is that danger

446
00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:08.400
of working too hard but not smart. And sometimes it might be a time

447
00:29:08.440 --> 00:29:12.720
when you need to sort of withdraw, sort of just recuperate. Think about

448
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:18.400
it, because part of it is
also agile thinking. You know, you

449
00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:22.680
might have to reassess your goals,
maybe that you're what you originally thought was

450
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:26.240
the right way to go isn't and
you can adjust. And also the other

451
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:30.240
thing I think, and I'm onwise
very guilty this if not asking for help.

452
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:34.119
Sometimes you just need to ask for
help. That I think CSU is

453
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:40.960
quite a because it's quite an internal
thing. It could lead you to just

454
00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:42.599
sort of rely on or something right, I'm going to do it my way,

455
00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:45.240
but you know you might be missing
out on something. So you know,

456
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:48.880
again, draw on people that you
trust, or you might seek out

457
00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:52.720
someone who's an expert in the field
of what you want to do and discover

458
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:56.839
it. Don't just you know,
you have to you have to think around

459
00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:00.720
the subject. It's about getting.
You might set yourself of a target,

460
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:03.519
but you have to find your way
there, and you'll probably find along the

461
00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:07.079
way there will be some things you
hadn't thought of. So if you just

462
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:11.160
if you just cloud the same way, and if you've missed something, if

463
00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:15.960
you're not going to succeed. So
I think that's quite important sort of agile

464
00:30:15.119 --> 00:30:18.960
thinking. I like it. I
like it a lot. Let's grab our

465
00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:22.559
last break on that thought agile thinking. I'm your host, Elise Cortez.

466
00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:26.839
We've been on the air with Justin
Barnes, who's the author of SISSU Find

467
00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:30.519
Your Resilience The Finish Way and also
the book called Eca Guy, Discover Your

468
00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:33.160
Reason for Being. You joined today
from Hastings, which is in the southern

469
00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:36.920
coast of England. After the break, we're going to talk about how to

470
00:30:36.920 --> 00:30:40.119
harness see Sue in the workplace for
breakthroughs. Stay with us, we'll be

471
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:56.400
right back. Doctor Release Cortez is
a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose.

472
00:30:56.799 --> 00:31:00.880
An inspirational speaker and author, she
helps company visioneer for greater purpose among

473
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:08.680
stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and
meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,

474
00:31:08.839 --> 00:31:14.039
and commitment within the workforce. To
learn more, or to invite a

475
00:31:14.119 --> 00:31:18.880
lease to speak to your organization,
Please visit her at Elise Cortez dot com.

476
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:29.599
Let's talk about how to get your
employees working on purpose. This is

477
00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:33.359
Working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortez. To reach our program today or open

478
00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:40.839
a conversation with Elise, send an
email to Elise ali Se at Elise Cortez

479
00:31:40.960 --> 00:31:51.240
dot com. Now back to working
on Purpose. Thanks for staying with us,

480
00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:53.160
and welcome back to working on purpose
if you're just tuning in. My

481
00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:56.799
guest is Justin Barnes, who is
the author of CSU Find a Resilience,

482
00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.559
The Finish Way and also the book
called Guy, Discover Your Reason for Being

483
00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:05.440
Afterward literally escape in the hustle of
London life. He now lives in a

484
00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:08.440
fifteenth century house in Hastings Old Town
on the south coast of England, where

485
00:32:08.440 --> 00:32:12.559
he pursues his EA Guy and tries
to nurture his inner c sue. I'm

486
00:32:12.599 --> 00:32:15.519
your host, Elie Quartez. So
for this last segment here, what I

487
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:19.319
wanted to do, Justin is I
wanted to bring it into the workplace because,

488
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:22.319
as you know, I'm out to
really make work a place where people

489
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:27.599
want to show up, not avoid. So the first thing I want to

490
00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:30.160
get to, and this might be
a little bit of a stretch for this

491
00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:34.480
conversation, but let's try. I
want to talk about how companies can encow

492
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:38.519
companies and leaders can embrace the SISU
concept to create unique and thriving cultures that

493
00:32:38.559 --> 00:32:44.960
help grow and develop them ways while
creating a corp to spree spree to corp,

494
00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:47.839
if you will. So, how
can we create a unique culture that

495
00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:52.839
sets a company apart from others and
meaningfully connects people to it using CESU.

496
00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:57.319
Well, I think you can learn
I don't know whether there's necessarily caesar thing,

497
00:32:57.319 --> 00:33:00.759
but I think it's a finished thing
because that'd been very successful. You

498
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:04.920
can't if you look at their recent
history, I mean particularly of information technology.

499
00:33:05.160 --> 00:33:07.880
They're very well attuned to that because
of this sort of problem solving CSUE

500
00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:14.000
mentality, and so when when the
sort of technology revolution happened, they were

501
00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:17.000
very well placed to take advantch of
it. But I think one thing you

502
00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:21.519
can learned, as I said before, they're quite finished. People can often

503
00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:28.119
seem introverted and quite undemonstrative, and
they're very comfortable with silence. I did,

504
00:33:28.119 --> 00:33:30.200
by the way, when I did
the book I did speak to I

505
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:31.640
had a finished consultant because I said, look, I am bit aware of

506
00:33:31.759 --> 00:33:37.000
stereotyping people here and she said,
no, this is this is quite true.

507
00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:40.880
So you know, so in a
meter you might have someone who's just

508
00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:45.920
sitting there kind of quietly and not
all the louder voices are speaking, but

509
00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:49.160
they might have something really important to
say. So I think there's a there's

510
00:33:49.160 --> 00:33:54.599
a time for giving people space to
talk because they may have something really important

511
00:33:54.599 --> 00:33:59.799
to contribute. Also, Finns are
quite well known for quite even when they

512
00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:01.599
do, you speak, quite being
quite direct. You know, it can

513
00:34:01.640 --> 00:34:06.160
come across as a bit rude actually, but but it's it's you know,

514
00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:08.480
you know exactly where they stand on
things, and so there should be you

515
00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:12.440
know, you do sometimes when you're
approaching a problem, it's not about being

516
00:34:12.440 --> 00:34:15.320
disrespectful to each other, but it's
about being you know, honest about what

517
00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:20.079
you think the best way forward is. And then everyone knows can can work

518
00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:22.840
back from that and think, well, what's the compromise, what's the what's

519
00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:24.320
the way we're going to go.
So I guess as a leader you want

520
00:34:24.360 --> 00:34:28.800
to encourage people to speak and also
and as a leader you need to listen

521
00:34:29.480 --> 00:34:34.280
because you don't know everything about you
know, someone might have something to contribute.

522
00:34:35.079 --> 00:34:37.840
The other thing I found certainly when
I worked. I've worked at different

523
00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:40.519
places and the ones that weren't are
good. Well, when you had a

524
00:34:40.599 --> 00:34:45.320
post more something that you sort of
had a post mortem on something you've worked

525
00:34:45.360 --> 00:34:47.159
on, and there were some said, oh, we don't want to talk

526
00:34:47.159 --> 00:34:50.599
about the past, let's push onto
the future. And things have gotten our

527
00:34:50.679 --> 00:34:52.360
new, things have gone wrong,
and I think that's crazy. You have

528
00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:57.039
to learn from what went wrong to
be to do it, not to make

529
00:34:57.079 --> 00:35:00.639
the same mistakes again. So I
think that's quite important. And there was

530
00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:05.440
a quote just to give you a
quote from a very successful Finn who was

531
00:35:05.480 --> 00:35:08.400
the CEO of Nokia, who made
all the mobile phones, which is one

532
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:16.719
of the big expansion companies of Finnish
history. He says that Finns are faring

533
00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:21.639
so well because we have a different
mindset about success, ones that one that

534
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:24.400
is based on equity and community.
So it's a slightly you know, I

535
00:35:24.440 --> 00:35:28.719
suspect, certainly in England, I
suspects so in the States it's more of

536
00:35:28.760 --> 00:35:34.960
an individualized individual view of success.
So I think that those are maybe things

537
00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:38.239
to think about. I like them
a lot. A couple of things really

538
00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:40.840
quick to what you said. I
like the idea of giving people a space

539
00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:44.760
to talk because I know when my
work, when I'm out speaking and doing

540
00:35:44.800 --> 00:35:49.519
programs, the extroverts will always speak
up. But the introverts, invariably,

541
00:35:49.719 --> 00:35:53.599
when you give them a space and
invite them to contribute, really provide really

542
00:35:53.679 --> 00:35:58.159
meaningful farther into the conversation. But
they do need to be given a space

543
00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:01.239
to talk. And so I like
the idea very much of creating a community

544
00:36:01.239 --> 00:36:06.199
where all people are given a space
to talk and share and consider. And

545
00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:07.480
lots of things that you said in
that, but that's the thing that I

546
00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:10.599
really wanted to echo. There's a
brilliant book I don't know if you've read

547
00:36:10.599 --> 00:36:16.239
it by Susan Kine called Quiet,
She's an She's an Introvert. You should

548
00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:20.760
read it. It's really about it. It's a fascinating book about, you

549
00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:23.840
know, the power of introverts and
how they're sort of how if you are

550
00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:29.400
introverted, how you can get your
voice heard without sort of change, pretending

551
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:31.119
to be something you're not. But
you're very interesting and also quite good.

552
00:36:31.119 --> 00:36:35.639
If you don't understand if you're extroverted, don't understand interverts? Right right?

553
00:36:35.679 --> 00:36:38.760
Beautiful, and we need we need
all of you, So bring your best

554
00:36:38.800 --> 00:36:43.360
and we our job as leaders is
to make it make a place for people

555
00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:46.679
to feel like they're wanted and needed
and can contribute. So I really wanted

556
00:36:46.719 --> 00:36:51.480
to make sure we surface that and
to that end, the next thing I

557
00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:53.679
wanted to do, which is really
how we'll finish the show, is I

558
00:36:53.719 --> 00:36:58.840
wanted to go through this section you
just gotta it's actually I think it's a

559
00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:05.360
page on parental guidelines for adults with
kids. However, that list seems very

560
00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:08.920
applicable to any place we're trying to
bring people up, including leaders trying to

561
00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:13.320
grow and develop people. So as
we go through a few of these points

562
00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:16.280
here, listeners, what I would
like you to do is consider these points

563
00:37:16.360 --> 00:37:20.519
as both something you can do as
a leader to help develop your people,

564
00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:22.880
and if you're a parent or would
like to be one, consider how you

565
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:28.079
could use this with your kids.
So dual focus. So the very first

566
00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:31.320
one that you talk about, which
I think is hopelessly important in today's ever

567
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:37.280
changing world, is the importance of
instilling a love of learning. Yeah,

568
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:40.480
well, I mean I thought it
was really interesting was that in I don't

569
00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:45.480
know about its states, but in
England public libraries are being closed all over

570
00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:50.119
the place because you know, governments
have to fund them. And in Finland

571
00:37:50.159 --> 00:37:54.079
they have just opened a massive state
of the art library opposite the Parliament in

572
00:37:54.159 --> 00:38:00.159
Helsinki, which in a way to
symbolize how important they think life and discovery

573
00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:05.519
is. And I think anything you
can do to encourage that in the workplace

574
00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:09.599
is really important because you know,
you have especially as you say that the

575
00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:16.239
work the work environment is changing so
much now, and you know there's there's

576
00:38:16.239 --> 00:38:21.719
new industries coming up every you know, things change so quickly, so it's

577
00:38:21.960 --> 00:38:25.280
you have to encourage learning and new
employees. Yeah, I completely agree,

578
00:38:25.360 --> 00:38:30.199
and that's another reason. In today's
somewhere, I've read that by the time

579
00:38:30.199 --> 00:38:35.239
a person earns a four year degree, that that that that knowledge is already

580
00:38:35.239 --> 00:38:38.639
outdated by the time they graduate,
and so it just speaks to the importance

581
00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:43.199
of ever ever learning in an increase
or knowledge base, which is again for

582
00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:46.360
me just in a large reason I
continue five years in to host this radio

583
00:38:46.400 --> 00:38:52.280
show every week because it allows me
to catalyze my own thinking, my development

584
00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:55.559
about the world. That I'm trying
to make a difference in so completely agree.

585
00:38:55.639 --> 00:38:59.679
Love of learning, please and help, and leaders can do so much

586
00:38:59.679 --> 00:39:04.440
in an organization to encourage that and
to nurture that love of learning and give

587
00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:07.440
employees the opportunity to do that.
So that's the first thing. Now,

588
00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:12.440
the next thing that you've already surfaced
that I think is really important to echo

589
00:39:12.519 --> 00:39:17.400
for both leaders as well as parents
is helping people to see failures as bumps

590
00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:22.079
in the road to discovery, not
reasons to give up. Definitely. I

591
00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:25.920
mean, there's a it was fascinating
that in Finland a group I think it

592
00:39:25.960 --> 00:39:30.280
was a group of students a few
years ago started a day of failure.

593
00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:34.320
To read that in your book.
I loved that. So that the day

594
00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:37.519
of failure, if you want to
do it's thirty whattemer But every day should

595
00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:42.280
be a failure day. If you've
tried something ambitious, you shouldn't basically what

596
00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:44.719
they were trying to say. So
what they did with this is they ended

597
00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:49.760
up going to talk to very successful
politicians and business leaders and said, you

598
00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:52.639
know, what's what's your biggest failure? And of course some of them have

599
00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:57.000
had spectacular failures along the way,
but they'd learned from them and because they've

600
00:39:57.039 --> 00:40:00.920
tried to do something outside their conference
zone. So yeah, I think failures,

601
00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:04.679
the attitude to fail is important.
You learn from it. As I

602
00:40:04.679 --> 00:40:07.440
said before, if you if you
sort of do a project and at the

603
00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:09.480
end of it you just go,
oh, we might know. Let's look

604
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:14.960
forward. Let's put that behind us
and move without actually analyzing where you get

605
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:17.880
things went right and wrong, You're
you're missing, you're missing an opportunity to

606
00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:23.880
improve. So I think I think
failures are massively important. Yeah. Well,

607
00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:29.000
and I think positioning the environment so
that people are not afraid of it,

608
00:40:29.079 --> 00:40:31.480
because in so many organizations that I've
been called to work into, there

609
00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:35.679
is such a fear of failure.
That's how people get fired, That's how

610
00:40:35.719 --> 00:40:38.800
people get to mooted, that's how
people miss opportunities to get promoted because we

611
00:40:38.920 --> 00:40:43.320
failed to deliver the result we set
out for it. So there's a huge

612
00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:45.719
problem in life in general. Now
I think there's social media. If you

613
00:40:45.760 --> 00:40:51.760
make a mistake, people jump.
If you're exactly people jump on you.

614
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:54.320
And I sort of think we need
to get back to with government as well.

615
00:40:54.480 --> 00:40:57.920
Look, let's have a let's let's
put in place a plan that was

616
00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:00.840
going to improve things for it's going
to improve things all the people, and

617
00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:04.719
you might do it and they'll probably
find out that some of these things don't

618
00:41:04.719 --> 00:41:07.239
work. That's likely. But rather
than go oh, they're useless, you

619
00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:10.199
know, let's try and work from
that, and they think, right,

620
00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:13.280
okay, let's change the direction.
I think there needs to be more of

621
00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:19.760
that using failure product productively. I
completely agree. And there's again so many

622
00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:22.440
things we could talk through a bit
where I'm going to pick out a couple

623
00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:25.159
of things that I think are important. Another another point that to make.

624
00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:30.119
Again, these are guidelines for parents, but again using them inside organizations for

625
00:41:30.199 --> 00:41:35.639
leaders, you suggest emboldening people to
be independent, self reliant and take on

626
00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:38.840
responsibility, but then to your point
earlier, also encourage them to ask for

627
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:43.400
help when they need it. Yeah. Well, I think I get the

628
00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:45.639
impression with things that they are bought
up to be quite self reliant, they

629
00:41:45.719 --> 00:41:49.880
see to something that's a word that
they hear quite early in their life,

630
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:52.920
and to sort of give them so
sort of strength yourself. But you do

631
00:41:52.000 --> 00:41:54.480
need that, you know. But
they also need to be a collaborative side.

632
00:41:54.760 --> 00:41:59.800
And I think some of some of
Finland's greatest achievements. I mean,

633
00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:04.960
the one that I actually love in
the book is this thing that they vented,

634
00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:08.159
this thing called the baby box.
And back in I think it's between

635
00:42:08.199 --> 00:42:12.960
the Wars, they had a huge
problem with child mortality, very high child

636
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:15.400
mortality rates, and they wanted to
encourage women to come and see if they're

637
00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:19.719
pregnant, to go and see a
doctor. And so what they decided to

638
00:42:19.760 --> 00:42:22.920
do is they created this this baby
box, which was given free to any

639
00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:25.960
mother who came to see the doctor, and it would give you all these

640
00:42:27.360 --> 00:42:30.599
fifty odd things that were vital for
the early months of your child's life,

641
00:42:30.599 --> 00:42:35.360
so the nappiers and food and this
like the other thing. And it's to

642
00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:40.639
this day this still goes on,
and that that idea led to now their

643
00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:45.840
child mortalities much lower years later.
But it's an example of you know,

644
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:47.199
putt it thinking, well, it
is a big problem we need to work

645
00:42:47.239 --> 00:42:52.760
together on. And at the time
that was a poor country and that and

646
00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:53.639
you know, they probably didn't have
the money to it, but they thought,

647
00:42:53.639 --> 00:42:57.119
no, this is important, and
so I think that's it. So

648
00:42:57.480 --> 00:43:00.199
it's fine being independent. There's certain
things you need to work together on,

649
00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:02.519
and you know, maybe within their
case, I guess they was. It

650
00:43:02.599 --> 00:43:06.679
was a public money that was used
to do it, and it continues to

651
00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:09.719
stay. It's been really successful for
the good of the whole of the whole

652
00:43:09.800 --> 00:43:13.840
organizer or in this case a country. But I guess you could apply that

653
00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:17.320
kind of logic to a company as
well well. And that is one of

654
00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:21.360
the other points I wanted to echo
two things on this. So you say,

655
00:43:21.400 --> 00:43:23.280
also one of the one of the
guidelines is to endow children and of

656
00:43:23.320 --> 00:43:28.039
course our employees with the knowledge that
they are one of many and show them

657
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:34.000
how communal efforts can achieve extraordinary things. So to position that earlier last month,

658
00:43:34.039 --> 00:43:37.440
I had a Hugh Welsh on the
show from he's the President General Council

659
00:43:37.519 --> 00:43:44.119
of DSAM and he talks about how
their organization gives ten percent, allows employees

660
00:43:44.159 --> 00:43:47.159
to allot ten percent of their work
time to any project that they are working

661
00:43:47.480 --> 00:43:52.599
in the world, and that gives
them that sense that they individually are making

662
00:43:52.599 --> 00:43:55.519
a difference in the world, which
I think is a I had him on

663
00:43:55.559 --> 00:44:00.400
because I think they illustrate an example
of how enlightened business looks like. So

664
00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:05.800
this whole notion of being able to
endow people with the knowledge that they're one

665
00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:08.760
of many, especially in our individuals
culture here in the United States, and

666
00:44:08.800 --> 00:44:14.320
how communally they can make a difference
to achieve extraordinary things. That is so

667
00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:22.360
important. Yeah, right, it's
beautiful and it's beautiful. And finally,

668
00:44:22.360 --> 00:44:24.039
the last thing I want if you
will speak on this and then we've got

669
00:44:24.039 --> 00:44:28.679
it. We're getting close to the
end of the show. You also encourage

670
00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:31.840
this for kids, you say,
encourage outdoor activities in all conditions to help

671
00:44:31.880 --> 00:44:36.360
resilience. Same way about that,
and I'm going to weigh in. Yeah,

672
00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:39.199
well, the fins, they're from
an early age. There's something that

673
00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:44.920
some people probably in this country think
would be well. I mean they will

674
00:44:44.960 --> 00:44:47.360
put a baby, they'll wrap them
up and they put them outside in a

675
00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:52.480
plan in their weather. It's cold
out there, and that's quite a normal

676
00:44:52.519 --> 00:44:54.400
thing to do because the fresh airs, the fresh air is good for them

677
00:44:54.559 --> 00:44:59.559
and it kind of But in terms
of activities as well, you know that

678
00:44:59.719 --> 00:45:04.039
all see they have they live in
a climate where they have not much sun,

679
00:45:04.199 --> 00:45:07.159
sunlight most of the year, it's
cold. There's no excuse. They

680
00:45:07.159 --> 00:45:14.280
are one of the most outdoors where
you find generally in the Nordic countries,

681
00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:16.599
the very outdoorsy. So you just
get the right gear and you get out

682
00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:22.679
there. There's no excuse bad whether
kids walk to school, it's not they

683
00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:25.519
don't get driven, it's you know, it's so there. It's a different

684
00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:29.840
mindset that you just go out and
it does help you develop your resilience because

685
00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:31.280
it's just thinks. Well, of
course you get used to all of these

686
00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:35.920
things. So yeah, there's a
weight. I think that is a way

687
00:45:35.960 --> 00:45:38.800
to develop your resilience, to get
encourage outdoor activities. But yes, you

688
00:45:38.840 --> 00:45:43.400
go ahead on your yes. So
two things I wanted to add into that

689
00:45:43.400 --> 00:45:46.639
that strike for me the way that
I consider this material is at one,

690
00:45:46.840 --> 00:45:52.159
that's there's the physicality of being outside. So you're talking about developing your resilience.

691
00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:53.760
And I'm from the northwest of the
United States, so there are some

692
00:45:53.880 --> 00:45:58.480
Nordic or labs there for sure.
And yes, we do run in the

693
00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:00.280
rain and we do run in the
snow. If you're not if you don't

694
00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:05.079
run a range, now you're not
going to run. So there's a physicality

695
00:46:05.079 --> 00:46:07.639
to that that again goes back to
that feedback loop to the overall system that

696
00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:12.280
I think is really important to echo. And then the second thing I wanted

697
00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:16.320
to say about being encouraging outdoor activities
is just getting present to nature. One

698
00:46:16.320 --> 00:46:21.239
of the things that I do in
my programs justin is I take people outside

699
00:46:21.599 --> 00:46:24.880
to help give them an opportunity to
experience nature, because I know that for

700
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:30.280
many people it allows them to get
access to the emotion of awe. And

701
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:35.599
when we experience the emotion of awe, the mental models in our mind actually

702
00:46:35.599 --> 00:46:38.320
have to change to be able to
embrace and make sense of what we experience.

703
00:46:38.559 --> 00:46:43.840
And that's elevating. So it's that's
so just the outdoor things. So

704
00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:46.719
so many companies are starting now to
be able to provide access to outdoor trails.

705
00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:51.519
People can do a conference call as
they walk a loop outside. So

706
00:46:51.639 --> 00:46:55.679
important, yeah, so important.
Yeah, definitely. Because I work from

707
00:46:55.679 --> 00:46:59.840
home, it's so I have to
There are days when I don't get out.

708
00:46:59.840 --> 00:47:01.360
I always feel worse. I just
you know, I get up in

709
00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:05.000
the morning, even at the moment
where I've got this a bit of an

710
00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:07.519
injury, I'm thinking I can walk. Walking's fine. So I think I'll

711
00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:09.679
go for a long I'll go for
a walk, get up early, get

712
00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:13.239
out and see the sunrise. I
live on the coast, it's really beautiful

713
00:47:13.360 --> 00:47:15.679
and to see the sunrise around here, so yeah, I think those things

714
00:47:15.719 --> 00:47:19.119
make you. It definitely gives you
energy for the day. So yeah,

715
00:47:19.119 --> 00:47:22.400
I totally agree with that. No
wonder you're such a such a prolific author.

716
00:47:22.159 --> 00:47:27.639
You're in char I have to be
inspired you right, So here we

717
00:47:27.639 --> 00:47:30.400
are already, we've already, we've
already spent it an hour together and I

718
00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:34.679
know it's just evaporates. So Lynn, see in the last twenty seconds,

719
00:47:34.719 --> 00:47:37.559
Justin, what would you like to
leave our listeners with today? Well,

720
00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:40.000
I think if you look at it, I think if you look at icky

721
00:47:40.039 --> 00:47:46.239
go and see to the combination to
finding your purpose and then pursuing that purpose

722
00:47:46.360 --> 00:47:51.800
with tenacity and creativity, I think
that you're not going to go too far

723
00:47:51.880 --> 00:47:54.920
wrong. Completely agree. Beautiful way
to finish, Justin. I'm so glad

724
00:47:54.920 --> 00:47:58.719
to have you back on the show. Thanks for joining us again. Yeah,

725
00:47:58.760 --> 00:48:01.000
you're welcome, listeners. If you
want to learn more about Justin and

726
00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:05.480
his various books, the easiest way
to do so is go to his website.

727
00:48:05.480 --> 00:48:10.440
It's Justin barnesmedia dot com. However, his name is spelled just Y

728
00:48:10.760 --> 00:48:17.079
N. Barnes. Very very important, so check into his books. He's

729
00:48:17.119 --> 00:48:21.800
got several out there. Very inspiring
guy. Last week, if you mislip

730
00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:23.960
the show live, you can always
catch a recorded podcast. We were on

731
00:48:23.960 --> 00:48:28.559
the air with Lewis Ephron of the
Voice of Purpose and the author of Purpose

732
00:48:28.559 --> 00:48:31.599
Meets Execution. We talked about that
crucial interaction. So many companies are working

733
00:48:31.639 --> 00:48:36.360
to get right in order to create
meaningful cultures people want to work in while

734
00:48:36.360 --> 00:48:39.320
remaining vibrantly profitable. Next week,
we'll be on the air with JP Licour

735
00:48:39.519 --> 00:48:43.960
talking about the work he and his
team due to create more valuable companies through

736
00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:46.840
stronger brands and healthier cultures. See
you're there. Remember that works at least

737
00:48:46.840 --> 00:48:54.639
a third of our lives. So
let's work on purpose. We hope you've

738
00:48:54.719 --> 00:49:00.519
enjoyed this week's program. Be sure
to tune into Working on Purpose featuring your

739
00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:05.119
host, Doctor Elise Cortez, each
week on the Voice America Empowerment Channel.

740
00:49:05.800 --> 00:49:12.960
Together, we'll create a world where
business operates conscientiously, leadership inspires impassioned performance,

741
00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:16.760
and employees are fulfilled in work that
provides the meaning and purpose they crave.

742
00:49:17.519 --> 00:49:21.079
See you there, Let's work on
Purpose.