June 17, 2025

Unleashing the Independent Workforce: Freedom, Power, and New Possibilities

Unleashing the Independent Workforce: Freedom, Power, and New Possibilities
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More professionals are stepping into the freedom of independent work—on their own terms. This episode explores the shifting tides of the workforce, where freelancers and solo practitioners are redefining stability, career control, and increased income. We explore what it means to work with purpose as a freelancer or gig-based pro—and how to fly free like a bird while building something lasting. We unpack how companies can benefit too, by tapping into agile, high-performing project-based talent.

Working on Purpose is broadcast live Tuesdays at 6PM ET and Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Working on Purpose is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).

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WEBVTT

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The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests and not

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those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We

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make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,

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or products mentioned on air or on our web. No

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liability explicit or implies shall be extended to W FOURCY

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Radio or its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments

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should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for

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choosing W FOURCY Radio.

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What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the

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answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose

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at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their

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lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization

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that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their

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highest potential. Business can be such a force for good

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in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide

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guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we

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all want working on Purpose. Now here's your host, doctor

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Elise Cortez.

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Welcome back to Working on a Purpose program, which has

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been brought to you with passion our pride since February

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of twenty fifteen. Thanks for tuning again this week. Great

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to have you. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes. If

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we've not met before and you don't know me, I'm

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a workforce advisor, organizational psychologist, management consultant, logo therapists, speaker

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and author. My team and I at Gusto and I

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help companies to enliven and fortify their operations by building

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a dynamic, high performance culture, inspirational leadership, and nurturing managers

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activated by meaning and purpose. Did you know that inspired

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employees outperform their satisfied peers by factor of two point

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twenty five to one. In other words, inspiration is good

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for the bottom line. You can learn more about us

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and how we can work together at Gusto, dashnow dot

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com or my personal site Atliscortes dot com. Getting in

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today's program we have with us today Miles Everson. Since

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twenty nineteen, he has served as a Chief executive Officer

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at MBO Partners, the market leader in enabling the future

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of work and improving the well being of the professionals

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and businesses throughout the world. Prior to IMDIO Partners, Miles

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held several senior roles at PwC. Over thirty years as

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Global Advisory and Consulting CEO, leading the company's Asia, Pacific

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and America's advisory and consulting businesses, eventually becoming the US

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Advisory Consulting Vice Chairman. Miles led the first globalization for

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the advisory consulting practice across the PwC enterprise. He's the

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co author of Freebirds Revolution, The Future of Work and

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the Independent Mind for both independent professionals and corporate executives alike.

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This educational and practical guide unpacks the ever growing independent

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workforce and offers leaders crucier ways to become its client

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of choice. To Freebirds, we'll be talking about this book today.

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He joined us today from Austin. Miles a hearty welcome

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to working on Purpose.

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Helloly, thank you. I'm happy to be here.

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It's really great to me too, and we are like

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independent minded human beings here. Miles. I'm so happy to

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know you. I want to ask you first if you

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would just to sort of talk a little bit about

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your early career and why you wanted to jump in

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into your partners, and then I want to comment as

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to why I think it was such a great idea.

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Yeah great. So my early career, yeah, my thanks, At

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least my very early career. I started very young. I

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had I won't go all the way back, but my

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very first business was when I was eleven years old.

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So I had I had that business builder h DNA

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in me, and so I spent though after university, I

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was at PwC. Started there in the Minneapolis office, and

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then I did a bunch of tours through various offices

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in business units, and I was, you know, as you

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had sent in the introductory one of the h I

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ran the global advisory and consulting businesses in my last act,

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so to speak, before I decided to go over to

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MBO Partners. When I was at PwC. One of the

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things I did is it related to the workforce. Is

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I hatched and delivered a what we call the PwC

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Talent Exchange. And the idea behind that was that when

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you create liquid markets, all boat rising the liquid market.

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And as I say in the book, one of the

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trends that has a lot of permanency to it is

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that the frationalization of everything. At the time, I looked

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at it and said, well, we're going to fractionalize every

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company's most valuable asset, which is their workforce. And for individuals,

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we're going to fractionalize their careers. And that's exactly what's happening.

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Lots of data to support that. We may get into

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that here. And so then when I decided to move

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on from p TOBC, I went over to MBO Partners

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and they were a leader in helping independents stand up

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their businesses and operate successfully. Is white collar independence? Interestingly enough,

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it's now publicly announced, but as of last Tuesday, we

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sold MBO to Bline. So b Line is the I'm

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going to end vender management system in the contingent work industry,

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and now MBO is part of the Beeline family, so

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we're happy about that as well.

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Congratulations, Miles. It's really exciting. And you know, as I

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read your book, and I think you know by now,

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I read my guests books cover to cover in part

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because I'm a lifelong learner and I want to keep

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getting better for my clients and my own notification. But

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could really relate to it, Miles, because I am an

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independent mind person as you describe in the book, and

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went independent in two thousand and three, which correlates exactly

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when my daughter was born. So you talk about three

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main if you won't do you know, higher independence, considerate

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for the disabled, for the children, and for the environment.

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I did it for my child because you know, I

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have one daughter. My husband then at the time worked

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for Deloitte, was on that path, traveling all the time.

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Somebody's got to be home base. Still wanted to work,

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but on my own term. So I feel like I

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was ahead of my time in some ways back then.

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But that's just like you say, I was interested in autonomy,

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control and flexibility, and I didn't feel I could get

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that in a typical job working for most companies.

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Yeah, I mean it's you know, sometimes I get asked,

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you know, why do people choose to be independent. There's

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specific reasons, but the most simple and basic answer is

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because they can.

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Right Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly right. Well, one of the things,

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there are so many things that I got from your book,

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and I really like how you talk about, you know,

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unbundled work. And so if you could situate that a

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little bit about what you mean by unbundled work.

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Yeah, uh, and it's a the description of unbundled I

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would even say is a living definition because of this

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point that I make about the fractionalization of everything, and

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the more you fractionalize any asset, the more unbundled it

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can become. And so unbundled work allows you to really

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i'll say, celebrate and embrace the people that have deep

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specialized skills. Yeah, and when you many independents I have

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found are really deep skills and they really don't want

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to be the general manager, right, And so that unbundled

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is if you can get really good at decomposing the

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work and unbundling it, you can get deep expertise and

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then things move at a faster pace because people are

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focused on one what they're really good at, but also

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what they have a passion for. Yeah, And that unbundling

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is just to me, is just so critical in terms

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of why the way the work is getting done is changing.

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And you know, we'll probably you know, if I really

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put my crystal ball to work, We're going to see

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even more of that get amplified. As you see the

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complement of technology today, people would say, you know, gen

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AI applied to the work environment, people with very very

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deep skills will complement themselves with bots and other technology

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to be able to really do just the piece that

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they like. We'll see more unbundling. That last is things

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involved here.

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M H. I love that you talk about the future

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of work is independent, and I like also too that

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you talk about that this is more even on an

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existential level. The future of work is independent because people's

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innate desire for a more fulfilling, rewarding vacational life is

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what's also what's driving that. We're gonna talk more about

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how things are done inside organizations that really destroy that.

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But if if you could just speak a bit more

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about the future of work is independent?

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Yeah, so you is it to me? There's a there's

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kind of a long potential story that i'll shorten up here,

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but I kind of see it that post World War

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Two we experienced what I refer to as the corporatization

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of America. Now this is more than just America, but

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the book is really geared towards the US market for

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the most part. And what I mean by that is people,

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mostly men, would go to work for a company, and

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those companies would make the promise to take care of

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them for life, including retirement, you know, pension income and benefits.

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And then what happened is by the time you get

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to the late sixties, so think of it as roughly

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twenty ish or so years twenty five years, you started

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to see an emergence of dual income families, and so

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the spouse usually the wife, decided to go to work.

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And I attribute that to that people are trying to

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do one of two things, either meet their basic food,

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water shelter needs or they were trying to keep up

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with the joneses, and the cash flow that they had

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to be real technical to feed their families wasn't enough,

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and so then were experienced inflation during the seventies. And

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what happened by the time you get to the late eighties,

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roughly again another twenty five years, twenty twenty five years later,

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what we saw is that the dual income family, even

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in itself I was not enough money to support the

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feed the family. And so Wall Street invented these things

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called mortgage backed securities and other securitizations. And so at

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that time what happened is whatever asset you had, if

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it was ill liquid, you could fractionalize it and you

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could turn it into money to support your lifestyle i e.

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Home equity loans and the increase in home values. Well,

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that ran its course for about another twenty five years

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before you get to the Great Recession in two thousand

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and eight, when you saw a collapse of the housing

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market and everything else correlated down at that time. But

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what you saw is people had started to dabble in

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the early two thousands. I think you said two thousand

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and three for you, right, you were independent, but there

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were others that were dabbling, kind of doing side gigs,

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doing some things, trying to get some incremental flow for themselves.

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Concurrent with this period from the eighties to the mid

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two thousands, what happened is corporate America broke the promise

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what promised you. They broke the promise of you come

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and work and I'll take care of you forever. They

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got ready to find benefit plans. In nineteen eighty, if

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you worked for a private company in the United States,

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two thirds of those employees had to find benefit plans.

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Today that's less than ten percent. By some measures, it's

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less than four percent. So that created this broken bond,

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and then people became more mobile. They didn't the loyalty

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just started to really dissipate, and so then you take

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an add onto that. The emergence of technology, and so

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it's possible to do work remotely, it's possible to do

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work with machines, et cetera, made it possible for people

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to go out on their own. So barriers to entry

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to start a business today had never been lower. Right,

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And so now we're sitting here basically twenty years into posts,

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you know, not quite twenty you know, seventeen years posted

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a great recession, and we're still in you know, I

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would say, the early innings of independent work. So for

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the next decade or so, people are going to choose

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to work as independents because they can, and because it

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creates multiple economic streams to feed their family, and they're

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not dependent on one manager that decides they don't want

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them at a company anymore. Right right now, None of

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what I just said is very technical or you know,

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high wisdom, but pragmatically that's what's happening.

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Yes, And a few things to add on to that

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that are darn fascinating. One is that you talk about

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that today there are seventy two million independent workers in

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the United States working occasionally part time, full time, in

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other words, on their own terms and that organizations, in

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order to future proof themselves need to be able to

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open their eyes to see the totality of their workforce.

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And I like how you break down looking at that,

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you have the sixty to thirty ten rule, and then

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of course you've got a recommendation for organizations that if

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they don't have if less than twenty percent of the

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workforce isn't independent, you want them to get to thirty.

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Right. Yeah, So if you talk to most CEOs of

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companies of almost any size and you ask him or

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her what their most valuable asset is, they're going to say,

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my people. The problem is most of them define my

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people as their W two employees.

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Right.

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However, because so many people, as you mentioned, seventy two

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million by mbo's independent research in the United States are

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choosing to work as independents, some of the best talent

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in the world has chosen to be independent professionals. And so,

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by definition, if you don't include the total population of

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humans that do work in your people definition, you don't

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have the best people. Because you write by definition of

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the population, you've narrowed it too far. And so I

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sit back and I look at it, and you know,

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I'm not an advocate that says everyone needs to be

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an independent there's you know, there's never going to be employees.

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That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying you

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should get to about thirty percent independent because if you

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look at you know, the non farm labor in the

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United States, it's about one hundred and fifty million people,

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and you have seventy two million independence. Some of those

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seventy two million are also doing some full time jobs,

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but roughly a third of the workforce is already independent.

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So if you're not tapping into that, you're you have

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an organizational mistake. I like that.

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Well, you said that. I completely agree with that. Miles,

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and you go on to talk about you know that

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this whole idea of independent work you call them the

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independence ts not NCEE. It benefits the company as well

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as the individual and from the from the company's standpoint,

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just looking at the numbers here, you're talking about the

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extra cost and curb with full time employment. FIICA benefits

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onboarding all that and say that they could see a

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fifteen to thirty five percent reduction employment expenses right off

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the bat hiring independence.

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That's right, and that's and we see that right, and

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you so you're bringing up you know, what i'll call

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the math component of this, and it's real. You know,

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we we see twenty percent cost productions, which is a

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key is a key component of why you would do this.

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But I'm going to add another layer here and maybe

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you were going to get to it in a little bit.

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But I kind of think it's interesting how you see

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executives talk about we want to diverse an inclusive workforce,

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and so we have DEI programs, et cetera. But one

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of the first things many companies do is they take

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that workforce that they hire and they put them through

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a company training program to try to make them more homogeneous.

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Here's how we think, here's what we do, et cetera,

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et cetera. And so are they really celebrating diversity because

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I would argue that independent are people that are independent thinkers.

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It's not the only limited diversity, obviously we know that,

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but people that have independent thought that are self starters,

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that come at things that maybe aren't just the same

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old corporate way, are really valuable to companies. And I

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think we're seeing that it's going to be even more

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so that way. For two reasons. One is in America,

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the average worker will stay at a company for three years.

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Who thinks they have a permanent workforce?

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Those I can tell your workers don't think that they

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have a permanent job.

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That's for darn sure exactly. And so then you know

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what you hear often is well, you know, but that's

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all of our knowledge is and our people, et cetera.

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That's changing the knowledge and I always sitting in the

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data and the ability to take that data and analyze

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it quickly, which is obviously is just is that ability

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is increasing exponentially with the use of various technology, mostly

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and AI and gen ai in particular. But your organization

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needs to become very proficient at having a recomposable workforce.

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So you assemble teams to go execute missions. When that

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mission is done, you dissemble those skills and reassemble other ones.

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Some of those people might be the same people, some

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might go work for other companies. And that's why I

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think the independent workforce is exactly where the future lies

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for companies that are going to be really agile and

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the ability to move fast to take advantage of growth

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opportunities while keeping their cost structure very variable.

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I'm convinced, but we'll let our listeners and viewers think

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more about that as we take our first break and

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we resume. I'm your host, Doctor release Cortes. We've been

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on here with Miles Everson, the chief executive officer of

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MBO Partners, the market leader and enabling the future of

319
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work and improving the well being of professionals and businesses

320
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throughout the world. We've been talking first about why the

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independent mind and the freebirds are of interest to the

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professionals driving it, but also what the companies get out

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of it. After the break, we're going to talk about

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the six forces shaping the future of work. We'll be

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right back.

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Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

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and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies

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visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

329
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leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

330
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commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

331
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a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her

332
00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:55.039
at Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

333
00:18:55.039 --> 00:19:03.839
your employees working on purpose. This is working on purpose

334
00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:07.200
with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or

335
00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:10.039
to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to

336
00:19:10.079 --> 00:19:15.480
a lease A Lisee at Eliscortes dot com. Now back

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to Working on Purpose.

338
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Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to Working

339
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on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Release Cortes, as I too,

340
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am dedicated to help and create a world where organizations

341
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thrive because their people thrive. However, we do that and

342
00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:33.559
they're led by inspirational leaders that help them find and

343
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contribute their greatness, and we do business that betters the world.

344
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I keep researching and writing my own books. So one

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of my latest came out. It's called a Great Vitalization

346
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how activating meaning and purpose can radically and lag in

347
00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:47.680
your business. And I order to help leaders understand what

348
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today's workforce really wants, and then I provide twenty two

349
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best practices to help you equip you to put that

350
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into your culture to give that for them. You can

351
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find my books on Amazon or my personal site Atliscortes

352
00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:01.359
dot com. Are just now joining us. My guest is

353
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Miles ever since he's the co author of Freebird's Revolution,

354
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The Future of Work, and the Independent Mind. So first

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let me also celebrate and just be joyous with you, Miles,

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how much you clearly love music. I'm delighted by how

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you wove the themes of music throughout your book. And

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of course these six forces that we're going to talk

359
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about next. You know, number one is life in the

360
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fast lane. The first force, the rate of change is accelerating. First,

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just talk about how did you work Why is the

362
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music important for you to work into your book.

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Yeah, so it's actually a very good story. So my

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now wife, we weren't married at the time I wrote

365
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the book, but I was sharing with her about the

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book and what I was writing. And she is an

367
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author as well, she's not a business author. And she says,

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because that sounds really really boring.

369
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Thanks Annie, Yeah, I love you too.

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And she said, you know, why don't you why don't

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you like do some more storytelling in there about people

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who were free birds instead of just talking about all

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these facts and data and about the future, like leverage

374
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the past, because people there's been this free bird spirit,

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you know, Miles that I hear you talk about. It

376
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has been around for decades. That's not new. And so

377
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I landed on using musicians and then I added many

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of the tech innovators and the musicians. We got to

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that primarily because the original gig economy was musicians doing gigs.

380
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Oh yeah, yeah, you talk about that in your book.

381
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Huh, And I could make very strong compelling arguments that.

382
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So you have songwriters, screenwriters, musicians that create. They create

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the value and the content that people want to take

384
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and to consume. But the exchange for that value does

385
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not really sit in most cases with the creators of

386
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that content. It's the people that take the value are

387
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the studios that take the distribution. They take all the

388
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money out of the distribution. So you have excellent musicians

389
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that make very little money, but they continue to do

390
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what they do because they do it because of the

391
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love of the passion they have for their music. And

392
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I just kind of think it's wrong that we are

393
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not rewarding the creators of value more and we're giving

394
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it to those of control distribution.

395
00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:30.079
Yeah. I love how you shared that what Taylor Swift

396
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did to take back control of that, that was such

397
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a great story, so I wanted to just celebrate them. Well,

398
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:37.119
thanks for sharing that, and it sounds like you married. Well,

399
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she's definitely adding to your life. So that's good.

400
00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:41.319
So let's just hit on.

401
00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:44.119
Let's just hit on these six forces fairly quickly because

402
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I want to just move through them, because there's a

403
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whole bunch more. I want to ask you still for

404
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:50.799
the last segment, but the first for shaping the future

405
00:22:50.799 --> 00:22:53.079
of work life in the fast lane. The rate of

406
00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:55.400
change is accelerating. You could say a bit about that.

407
00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:59.200
Yeah, so the rate of change is accelerate. By the way,

408
00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:01.160
I don't think any of these or Sherlock home moments.

409
00:23:01.319 --> 00:23:05.359
Okay, okay, I'll brace myself, bare myself accordingly and so.

410
00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:08.759
But a lot of people talk about the only constant

411
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is change, but the reality is that the rate of

412
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change is in fact accelerating. And so AI was originally

413
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invented in the late fifties, but because you didn't have

414
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enough capabilities to house the data and the technology to

415
00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:30.200
support it, you didn't see any kind of mass adoption

416
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of AI until the mid nineties when it got used

417
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for algarithmic trading on the trading floor. So from the

418
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mid nineties though to two thousand and nine, when the

419
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cell phone came the smartphone came out in earnest, it

420
00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:44.279
was only fourteen years so it took forty years to

421
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get the first application of it that it could be

422
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used in the masses, but it took only another basically

423
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a decade. And now when you think about the rate

424
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at which AI is being embedded into technology, it's just

425
00:23:56.680 --> 00:23:58.960
it's completely off the charts, like you can't predict how

426
00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:02.119
quick it's going to happen. Yeah, and so, and I

427
00:24:02.200 --> 00:24:04.880
use there's all kinds of other you know, when you

428
00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:07.480
when you think of what's happened with decoding the genome.

429
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:10.880
You know, originally two thousand was I don't remember the

430
00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:13.240
exact number now, but was like one hundred billion dollars.

431
00:24:13.279 --> 00:24:15.920
Today you get your DNA coded for less than one

432
00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:16.640
thousand dollars.

433
00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:23.160
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, well it's it's it's mind boggling. Okay.

434
00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:24.759
So in the second force, you call it, get your

435
00:24:24.880 --> 00:24:27.400
memory for nothing, in your chips for free. Let's we

436
00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:31.680
all remember where that came from. Yeah, So progress is deflationary.

437
00:24:32.359 --> 00:24:36.839
Yeah. So the reason I say that progress is deflation

438
00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:41.319
is when you have multiple innovations that converge at the

439
00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:46.519
same time, it advances the social well being of the population.

440
00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:51.480
And so that's why progress is inflationary. We have five

441
00:24:51.559 --> 00:24:54.880
year olds walking around with supercomputers in their pockets that

442
00:24:54.960 --> 00:24:59.920
are more powerful than what a standalone supercomputer was worth

443
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:05.680
in the late sixties, and so we raised the social

444
00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:10.240
standard of what is common when you have multiple innovations

445
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:15.039
that converge. So the inflationary point is you make experiences

446
00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:18.359
and capabilities available to people at scale that otherwise you

447
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:21.240
would have never been made available to So progress is

448
00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:25.880
in fact deflationary. Even in inflationary periods, you're still advancing

449
00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:28.279
the well being of people and the experiences.

450
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:30.160
That they have so really quick.

451
00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:31.720
I just want to situate for our listeners and viewers

452
00:25:31.720 --> 00:25:35.160
who maybe are hearing that in an abstract way you

453
00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:37.200
talk about your book, how you know, once upon a

454
00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:40.240
time you could build a game that took a decade.

455
00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:44.400
Now it's take thirty minutes and it costs less as well, correct,

456
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:46.480
And so that I think that helps our listeners and

457
00:25:46.519 --> 00:25:49.599
viewers better understand what you mean by that it's so powerful,

458
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:50.279
so crazy.

459
00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:52.599
Yeah, thank you for that.

460
00:25:53.240 --> 00:25:54.039
Yeah you're welcome.

461
00:25:54.559 --> 00:25:54.839
All right.

462
00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:57.160
So furce number three is you call it we are

463
00:25:57.240 --> 00:26:01.119
never getting back together again, And that is the fractionalization

464
00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:03.799
of everything which you hinted at. It the first, the

465
00:26:03.880 --> 00:26:05.960
first episode. And by the way, I don't know if

466
00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:09.680
you know who Rashad tobakham Walla is. He's a futurist

467
00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:11.599
as well. I had him on earlier. He talks a

468
00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:12.839
lot about fractionalization.

469
00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:18.880
Yeah, I am aware of him. And anytime you have

470
00:26:18.920 --> 00:26:22.319
a valuable asset and you fractionalize it, you bring liquidity

471
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:27.440
to a market. And this has been happening for centuries, frankly,

472
00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:31.880
but what's happened is, you know, if you look at

473
00:26:32.079 --> 00:26:35.000
the right share market. For example, in two thousand and nine,

474
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:37.200
I think was about a three hundred million dollar market

475
00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:40.640
in San Francisco, and within five six years it was

476
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:44.680
well over a billion five market. So why is that.

477
00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:49.279
It's because we fractionalized right share and people come in

478
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:51.640
right share, you know which. The one I really think

479
00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:54.599
is kind of humorous and funny is in two thousand

480
00:26:54.599 --> 00:26:56.559
and five, if we'd have been here and I said, hey,

481
00:26:56.599 --> 00:26:59.039
you know, I think we should have an app that

482
00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:02.039
allows people to fractionalize their home so other people can

483
00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:06.640
come and sleep in their bed. That's the craziest thing

484
00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:09.559
I've ever heard, Miles, Well, that's that we have that.

485
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:14.440
It's called you know Airbnb or vrbl right, right, And

486
00:27:14.519 --> 00:27:19.519
so this fractionalization of everything just makes it possible for

487
00:27:19.640 --> 00:27:22.119
people to use obviously part of an asset when they

488
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:23.559
want to use it, and they don't have to bear

489
00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:26.839
the costs for the whole asset when they're not using it. Yeah.

490
00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:28.200
And one of the things that I found, there are

491
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:30.119
so many things about your book, Miles is just really

492
00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:32.799
just packfull with just all kinds of value. But you

493
00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:35.799
talk about how companies will increasingly fractionalize their workforce to

494
00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:38.200
get the right people with the right skills at the

495
00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:41.400
right time for the right price, and they won't be

496
00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:44.400
patting their week trying to fill it with other things

497
00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:48.079
to get their actual steady two week paycheck. If that

498
00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:50.039
doesn't get your attention as a leader, I don't know

499
00:27:50.039 --> 00:27:51.480
what to do to help you.

500
00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:55.359
Yeah, no, I agree. And you know you see where

501
00:27:55.480 --> 00:27:59.039
you know, anyone that's worked in companies has been through

502
00:27:59.079 --> 00:28:02.480
the experience of the new budgeting process where even in

503
00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:05.559
zero budgeting environments where people come back and say, well,

504
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:08.039
I'm going to need more people, I need more resources.

505
00:28:08.039 --> 00:28:08.960
So it's kingdom.

506
00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:12.960
Building, and you know that can be the death of

507
00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:19.519
a company to be candid. Absolutely, this fractionalization is definitely

508
00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:22.079
you can part use of.

509
00:28:24.319 --> 00:28:26.720
Assets. So but by the way, we didn't talk about potially.

510
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:29.680
It makes the fractionalization point come home. When I left

511
00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:32.680
PwC and I was deciding what I was going to

512
00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:38.119
do next, I commissioned an independent research firm to give

513
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:41.319
me the answer to the following question, is there a

514
00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:46.519
correlation or causation between the market valuation of a company

515
00:28:47.319 --> 00:28:50.079
and the relative share of independence to full time workers

516
00:28:50.119 --> 00:28:54.759
that they have? And the answer is that there is. So.

517
00:28:54.799 --> 00:28:59.759
In two thousand and eighteen, when I commissioned that study,

518
00:29:00.279 --> 00:29:03.839
the valuation for the market capitalization, there was about one

519
00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:06.720
thousand basis point premium for those companies that had a

520
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:11.279
higher relative share of independent workers. Wow, in twenty twenty three,

521
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:16.160
that differentiation had jumped to fourteen hundred basis points. Now

522
00:29:16.519 --> 00:29:19.400
I do not think it's causation. We could never prove causation,

523
00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:23.440
but I think it's correlation. So people that run asset

524
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:27.680
like companies and are more agile drive more market capitalization

525
00:29:28.279 --> 00:29:31.960
than those that had rigidity in them. And so that

526
00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:37.000
rigidity includes a rigid, stable workforce that doesn't change, doesn't innovate,

527
00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:39.839
et cetera. And so I think there's there's a fair

528
00:29:39.880 --> 00:29:43.119
bit of you know, hard dollar facts here that support

529
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:45.720
that you need to fractionize your workforce.

530
00:29:47.119 --> 00:29:49.359
Like I said, you've totally convinced me, and I am one,

531
00:29:49.400 --> 00:29:51.640
so you know which later then led me to start

532
00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:54.200
to found other companies myself. But it started off just

533
00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:58.160
being independent. So I really get that. Okay. So number

534
00:29:58.240 --> 00:30:01.480
four would which is what you call you can't touch

535
00:30:01.519 --> 00:30:05.599
this is from knowledge stocks to knowledge flows.

536
00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:10.960
Yeah, So I would argue that in the most of

537
00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:15.359
the twentieth century and before, the mindset was that if

538
00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:17.480
I have something of value, I'm going to try to

539
00:30:17.559 --> 00:30:20.279
protect it and hide it and I'll get paid for

540
00:30:20.359 --> 00:30:24.599
it in a binary transaction with the counterparty. So I'll

541
00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:28.319
sell something you know, trademarks, ip, et cetera. And then

542
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:30.880
what you started to see with the emergence of technology

543
00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:35.480
and it's on steroids today is open source software, right,

544
00:30:35.599 --> 00:30:38.039
and so that's knowledge flows. So now I'm going from

545
00:30:38.079 --> 00:30:42.440
knowledge stocks as binary transactions. Knowledge flows says if I

546
00:30:42.440 --> 00:30:44.920
get more people to add to this and participate in it,

547
00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:47.279
it will become more valuable and I'll figure out how

548
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:49.720
I make my money off of the flow of that information.

549
00:30:50.119 --> 00:30:52.440
I don't need a protection of strategy where I keep

550
00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:55.319
it and trade it in binary transactions. And you know,

551
00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:57.400
there's all kinds of business models, and you see it

552
00:30:57.400 --> 00:31:00.079
out there where the knowledge flows is creating a lot

553
00:30:59.920 --> 00:31:03.839
of value for both the consumer experientially, but also for

554
00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:06.559
the investors from a return perspective.

555
00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:10.920
I remember, just briefly, I got into the human capital

556
00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:13.640
space miles in the late nineties in Seattle, and so

557
00:31:13.759 --> 00:31:17.240
I was selling staffing services back then, and of course,

558
00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:19.359
you know, I knew about Linux, the Linux operating system,

559
00:31:19.400 --> 00:31:23.279
Linus Torvalds, and the idea of open source, and I

560
00:31:23.319 --> 00:31:26.039
remember back then being pretty blown away about that idea.

561
00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:27.839
And of course, you know, look at it today and

562
00:31:28.480 --> 00:31:30.759
it's very powerful when you start thinking about how many

563
00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:34.319
people are contributing to and improving that the idea of

564
00:31:34.359 --> 00:31:37.880
open source or knowledge flow is really compelling.

565
00:31:39.440 --> 00:31:41.160
Yeah, and the you know, all these trends that we're

566
00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:43.720
talking about, they're not flashing the pants, They have a

567
00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:46.240
lot of permanency for multi rik decades too.

568
00:31:46.440 --> 00:31:51.119
Yep, yeah, yeah, okay, right for number five and I'm

569
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:55.680
ready all right, so you know we are the champions.

570
00:31:55.880 --> 00:31:58.920
Is number five winning the war for talent, and I

571
00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:01.640
got to start with you know this this first opening

572
00:32:01.720 --> 00:32:05.640
quote from Tim Ryan, the PwC US chairman. You quote

573
00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:07.400
him in the book saying the war for talent is

574
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:08.759
over talent one.

575
00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:14.039
Absolutely, there's no question. And so you know, at MBO

576
00:32:14.279 --> 00:32:17.720
we talk about being a customer of choice to the

577
00:32:17.839 --> 00:32:23.839
talent because in a liquid market, the provider, the supplier,

578
00:32:24.839 --> 00:32:29.000
has more more balance and power than the buyer. And

579
00:32:29.079 --> 00:32:32.000
so if you're really good at what you do, by definition,

580
00:32:32.039 --> 00:32:33.799
if you're really good at what you do, you'll always

581
00:32:33.839 --> 00:32:38.440
be a free agent in anything. The reason people signed

582
00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:42.920
long data contracts is to manage downside risks. But if

583
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:45.240
you're good at what you do, you in fact are

584
00:32:45.279 --> 00:32:49.559
being independent. And so talent, you know, for some of

585
00:32:49.599 --> 00:32:52.799
the reasons we've already talked. You know, they're no longer

586
00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:56.319
tied in financially because of that, you know, the defined

587
00:32:56.359 --> 00:33:01.359
benefit plans are gone. My fits are portable for my

588
00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:05.519
defined contribution plans, the ability to work remotely, so my

589
00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:08.119
geographic reach is so much greater than what it used

590
00:33:08.119 --> 00:33:11.319
to be. Talent gets to choose what companies they want

591
00:33:11.359 --> 00:33:15.079
to work for, and if the company's you know, an

592
00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:18.359
undesirable company to work for. They will not attract the

593
00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:20.839
top talent. It's not going to happen, right.

594
00:33:21.440 --> 00:33:22.920
I want to commup more on that, but we are

595
00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:24.920
overdue for our last break, so let's just go ahead

596
00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:26.200
and grab that last break, and then we'll pick that

597
00:33:26.279 --> 00:33:29.279
up when we come back. Okay, we've been on air

598
00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:31.920
with Miles ever since. He's the chief executive officer at

599
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:34.519
MBO Partners, the market leader and enabling the future of

600
00:33:34.599 --> 00:33:37.240
work and improving the well being of professionals and businesses

601
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:39.920
throughout the world. I'm your host at least Cortez. We've

602
00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:42.599
been talking about the forces that shape the future of work.

603
00:33:42.839 --> 00:33:44.759
After the breaker and dive a little bit further into

604
00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:48.039
this idea of how talent has won the war.

605
00:33:48.400 --> 00:33:49.079
We'll be right back.

606
00:34:04.599 --> 00:34:08.159
Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

607
00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:12.039
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies

608
00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:15.920
visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

609
00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:19.920
leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

610
00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:23.280
commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

611
00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:26.199
Elise to speak to your organization, please visit her at

612
00:34:26.280 --> 00:34:29.519
elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your

613
00:34:29.559 --> 00:34:38.320
employees working on purpose. This is Working on Purpose with

614
00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:41.639
doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to

615
00:34:41.719 --> 00:34:44.800
open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Elise

616
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:51.159
Alise at elisecortes dot com. Now back to working on Purpose.

617
00:34:56.440 --> 00:34:58.159
Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to working

618
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:00.760
on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Release Court. As you

619
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:03.159
know by now, this program is dedicated to empowering and

620
00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:06.360
inspiring you along your journey to realize more of your potential.

621
00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:08.039
If you want to learn more about how we can

622
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:10.360
work together and learn about the Gusto Now Academy for

623
00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:13.719
leaders and individuals on various journeys alike, make your way

624
00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:17.400
to gustodashnow dot com and then navigate to the training

625
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:19.559
tab to find the academy. Love to have you join

626
00:35:19.639 --> 00:35:22.280
us if you are just now coming on with us today.

627
00:35:22.360 --> 00:35:24.840
My guest is Miles Everson. He's the co author of

628
00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:28.400
Freebird's Revolution, The Future of Work and the Independent Mind.

629
00:35:29.559 --> 00:35:31.400
So I wanted to pick up on the notion that

630
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:36.079
fifth the Fifth Force, winning the war for talent and

631
00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:41.440
talk about one the great resignation that happened as people

632
00:35:41.480 --> 00:35:43.920
were quitting their jobs right and left, and of course,

633
00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:46.280
as you position it, then what came of that was

634
00:35:46.320 --> 00:35:47.360
the great realization?

635
00:35:48.039 --> 00:35:54.079
Right, Yeah, So you know I just kind of, first

636
00:35:54.119 --> 00:35:57.320
of all, I kind of try to whenever you're presented

637
00:35:57.400 --> 00:36:01.400
with a situation, try to look at two things. One is,

638
00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:04.360
what's the positive here? But the other is is there

639
00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:07.320
a contrarian view maybe two way the masses are thinking?

640
00:36:08.519 --> 00:36:12.639
And so, you know, everyone was talking about the Great Resignation,

641
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:15.880
and what triggered for me is I said, well, I

642
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:21.000
actually think what's happened is it's allowed people to see

643
00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:26.480
the possible of just going their own way and being

644
00:36:26.519 --> 00:36:29.880
an independent It's actually the great realization. They were afraid

645
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:32.360
to do it, and now that they're staying home and

646
00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:35.800
they're not going to work every day, they're like, I

647
00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:39.760
can do this. So they've realized that there was more

648
00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:44.239
than one way to operate your career, and that you

649
00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:46.239
don't just need to be a full time employee for

650
00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:49.400
one or a few companies. You have the opportunity to

651
00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:54.280
have more control over your work and your life and

652
00:36:54.360 --> 00:36:59.039
your economics candidly than what they otherwise not possible. I

653
00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:01.360
really do believe it. It was a realization. It's just

654
00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:02.360
a shue grab form.

655
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:04.800
Well, I do too, and I wrote about that also

656
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:07.599
in one of my last books. And that means we

657
00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:09.480
have to talk about this idea of the forest one

658
00:37:09.559 --> 00:37:12.880
hundred percent return to office mandate that so many organizations

659
00:37:13.079 --> 00:37:18.320
are mandating. I find myself just completely baffled by that, Miles.

660
00:37:18.360 --> 00:37:20.519
I mean, I have so many conversations with people like you,

661
00:37:20.719 --> 00:37:23.960
futurists and such, and so this idea. Of course, the

662
00:37:24.000 --> 00:37:28.119
workforce want's location and schedule flexibility. They also recognize their value.

663
00:37:28.599 --> 00:37:30.679
They don't want to have their dairyer stapled in a

664
00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:32.800
seat and deal with traffic every single day of the

665
00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:34.480
week and then not be able to see their kids

666
00:37:34.599 --> 00:37:37.400
go to their soccer games or whatever it's And and

667
00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:39.840
what I find so beautiful about what happened in the

668
00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:44.199
pandemic is it really did fundamentally alter our molecules of

669
00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:46.480
how we relate to life and work. And there is

670
00:37:46.599 --> 00:37:48.079
no going back from that.

671
00:37:49.719 --> 00:37:52.079
Yeah, I don't see that you can go back and

672
00:37:52.199 --> 00:37:56.480
have its stick. You know, there are there benefits to

673
00:37:56.599 --> 00:38:01.079
being to having people together, of course, totally right, because

674
00:38:01.159 --> 00:38:06.239
social interactions and human connection is so critically important. I

675
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:09.679
think when it comes to again this is just a

676
00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:18.039
personal opinion, is that the most significant missing part of

677
00:38:18.159 --> 00:38:21.199
people not being in the office together is what I'll

678
00:38:21.440 --> 00:38:28.960
refer to as water cooler innovation. Right, I understands, do

679
00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:33.239
transactions get processed faster? I don't think so, Like, are

680
00:38:33.280 --> 00:38:37.159
people more productive? I don't. I don't see that happening,

681
00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:40.199
especially if they had a you know, an hour an

682
00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:42.239
hour and a half commute each way. They're spending three

683
00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:45.880
hours commuting and now they have to commute. Are there

684
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:48.880
people that take advantage of it and probably don't work

685
00:38:48.880 --> 00:38:51.519
as hard or you know, as productively as maybe they could?

686
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:53.440
Of course, but you have that in people that work

687
00:38:53.480 --> 00:38:55.920
in the office as well, which is a different type

688
00:38:55.960 --> 00:39:00.960
of you know, laziness of saying. So, I think the

689
00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:05.119
mandatory full return to office work, you know, for some

690
00:39:05.480 --> 00:39:10.000
some environments obviously is required. You know, if you're talking

691
00:39:10.039 --> 00:39:12.000
about an emergency room for people, they've got to be

692
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:17.159
of course, professionals need to be there, right, But carte

693
00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:20.639
blanche to say that that's the policy, I think it's

694
00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:22.719
kind of a hard pill to swallow for many very

695
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:25.840
talented independent people or you know, workers in the workforce.

696
00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:30.360
I do too, which is going to bring us here

697
00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:34.480
to our our last force for shaping the future of work,

698
00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:36.480
which is I love how you say, you know, I

699
00:39:36.559 --> 00:39:39.480
can't get no satisfaction, and of course you you strike out,

700
00:39:39.559 --> 00:39:42.719
I can't get no. And it's just called satisfaction Force

701
00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:46.480
number six. The state of independence in America. I think

702
00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:50.119
it's interesting. There's just so many really interesting ideas there

703
00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:53.119
about what did you say? Gallup said that six percent

704
00:39:53.199 --> 00:39:55.480
of the workforce really wants to work full time in

705
00:39:55.559 --> 00:39:59.280
the office. What forty five percent would give a would

706
00:39:59.320 --> 00:40:00.960
take a pay cut to have a couple of days

707
00:40:01.000 --> 00:40:03.559
working from home and those couple of days from home

708
00:40:03.639 --> 00:40:06.199
are worth an eight percent pay increase something like that?

709
00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:07.639
Or do I have those numbers about right?

710
00:40:07.880 --> 00:40:11.440
Yeah, you have those about right. That's right. You know.

711
00:40:11.880 --> 00:40:14.480
The other thing that we know from the work that

712
00:40:14.599 --> 00:40:17.519
we did at MBO, so MBO had the longest or

713
00:40:17.599 --> 00:40:22.079
has the longest running primary research in the United States

714
00:40:22.280 --> 00:40:26.840
of the independent workforce. It's been running for over fifteen years.

715
00:40:27.960 --> 00:40:32.960
We know that independence believe that they're healthier, happier, and

716
00:40:33.039 --> 00:40:35.760
more financially secure than when they were a full time employee.

717
00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:40.199
And so I kind of always ask the basic question

718
00:40:40.360 --> 00:40:45.320
of who doesn't want a happy, healthy, a happy, healthy,

719
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:52.480
secure workforce. It's kind of to me, is very logical

720
00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:57.039
and straightforward. And so I do think that we're going

721
00:40:57.119 --> 00:41:03.480
to see more and more people work is independence. I'm

722
00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:05.480
gonna and I don't want to jump too far ahead

723
00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:09.280
because you may be planning on talking about this, but

724
00:41:09.440 --> 00:41:13.559
I do want to. In chapter nine, I talk about

725
00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:17.480
want to make break free, and I talk about freedom, courage,

726
00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:21.559
and decentralized authority, and then then I go on to authenticity.

727
00:41:23.320 --> 00:41:26.559
So I think part of the reason we're seeing this

728
00:41:26.719 --> 00:41:29.639
movement to the independent workforce, in why it's so high,

729
00:41:29.960 --> 00:41:36.679
is that, for different reasons, very few people trust central

730
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:43.199
authorities any longer. Not everyone, but you know, you can

731
00:41:43.239 --> 00:41:47.920
go down the list of central authorities that people mistrust,

732
00:41:49.199 --> 00:41:54.559
and so that includes companies that act like central authorities

733
00:41:54.639 --> 00:41:58.079
over their workforce, so they don't trust them, they don't trust,

734
00:41:58.320 --> 00:41:59.920
you know, like I could just go down the list,

735
00:42:00.039 --> 00:42:03.400
say who trust big pharma, Who trust big big banks?

736
00:42:03.400 --> 00:42:08.159
Who trust big government? You can you can see the challenge,

737
00:42:08.559 --> 00:42:11.360
right or wrong, it doesn't actually matter. What matters is

738
00:42:11.400 --> 00:42:16.840
there's a distrust. And so you got this lack of

739
00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:21.920
trust in central authorities. And then in order to be

740
00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:27.400
a really successful independent, I believe you have to have

741
00:42:27.639 --> 00:42:33.000
a high degree of authenticity. And in order to be authentic,

742
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:37.119
you have to be willing to be vulnerable, because when

743
00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:40.440
you're an authentic person, you will find people that disagree

744
00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:43.159
with you or dislike you, and you have to be

745
00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:48.639
okay with that. Yes, and independence I think personify that.

746
00:42:49.039 --> 00:42:50.920
And that's kind of where the whole thing about free

747
00:42:51.000 --> 00:42:58.000
birds came. Freebird's value or prioritize free will over being

748
00:42:58.079 --> 00:42:58.960
controlled by others.

749
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:02.559
It's very very very very true for me, very true.

750
00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:06.039
Yeah, yeah, And so I just think it plays into

751
00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:09.400
that state of independence. This just I wrote this about,

752
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:12.920
you know, freebird revolution in the future, work the independent mind.

753
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:17.039
This is bigger than work, is my point.

754
00:43:17.960 --> 00:43:20.760
I totally understand that point. It's I've chosen this is

755
00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:22.480
my life, which which is where I want to go next.

756
00:43:22.599 --> 00:43:25.079
Miles one of the things that I found so intriguing,

757
00:43:25.159 --> 00:43:27.760
and it was like, you know, I get Miles, I'm

758
00:43:27.800 --> 00:43:29.440
with you, I'm completely with you. I was nodding my

759
00:43:29.480 --> 00:43:32.119
head vigorously. I was reading your book. You talk about

760
00:43:32.159 --> 00:43:34.800
how independents see the lifespan stats and they know they

761
00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:36.519
don't want to retire at sixty five. I have no

762
00:43:36.679 --> 00:43:39.280
interest in retirement sixty five. I want to lived more lives.

763
00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:41.400
And I know you were saying in your book too,

764
00:43:41.480 --> 00:43:43.360
that you've got just as much of him and Vinegar

765
00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:45.800
and you, you know, as you might have several years ago,

766
00:43:45.880 --> 00:43:49.239
and you've got stuff to do that you expect and

767
00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:52.079
imagine that we'll see people working well into their seventies

768
00:43:52.119 --> 00:43:53.840
and even their eighties. And you look for the time

769
00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:56.719
when maybe we start to see even centurians working in

770
00:43:56.800 --> 00:43:59.920
the workforce. And I can tell you my belovedment are

771
00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:03.239
who I was up seeing in Canada. His name is

772
00:44:03.320 --> 00:44:05.480
Land Secretary and is eighty six years old. He's still

773
00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:08.079
kayaks under days a year, skis under days a year

774
00:44:08.199 --> 00:44:11.239
and works or travels one hundred days a year. That's

775
00:44:11.280 --> 00:44:13.360
where I want to be. Why would I want to

776
00:44:13.480 --> 00:44:15.440
you know, I don't want to go. And you know

777
00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:17.760
this idea of this glut to you talk about the

778
00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:20.119
third boxes of life and be the glut where I

779
00:44:20.760 --> 00:44:22.360
just kind of hang out and coast for the last

780
00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:24.039
third of my life. I am just getting started.

781
00:44:24.119 --> 00:44:24.199
Man.

782
00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:25.880
The crescendo has taken off.

783
00:44:27.599 --> 00:44:31.679
Yep, no, I agree. I mean I I don't intend

784
00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:34.360
on retiring as people would consider it any time.

785
00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:38.559
Sin, why would you leave all that beautiful experience and

786
00:44:38.679 --> 00:44:41.239
passion behind, you know, it's just it's so beautiful, and

787
00:44:41.719 --> 00:44:43.400
as you say, maybe we won't wait. They don't want

788
00:44:43.400 --> 00:44:45.239
to work two thousand hours a year. Maybe they don't

789
00:44:45.239 --> 00:44:46.719
want to work full time, maybe they want to work

790
00:44:46.760 --> 00:44:49.280
part time or seasonally or whatever, but they do want

791
00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:50.840
to be engaged in what I can tell you two

792
00:44:50.880 --> 00:44:54.599
miles from a logo therapeutic vantage point, which is where

793
00:44:54.679 --> 00:44:56.960
how we learn to activate mean in our lives, we

794
00:44:57.079 --> 00:44:59.079
are at our best when we're serving other people. We

795
00:44:59.199 --> 00:45:01.960
stop serving, or we start serving others, whatever that might be,

796
00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:04.440
is when we really start to decline. And that's when

797
00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:05.880
you see people marching to the grave.

798
00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:08.880
Yep, that makes complete sense to me.

799
00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:15.320
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So we have just just maybe a

800
00:45:15.400 --> 00:45:17.280
couple of minutes here when they're not that much left.

801
00:45:19.239 --> 00:45:20.679
I think what I want to do next is just

802
00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:23.159
let you just sort of share whatever final thoughts you

803
00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:25.800
might have. You have maybe a couple of minutes to

804
00:45:25.880 --> 00:45:27.679
do that. There's so much more we could have gotten

805
00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:29.559
out of your book, but you know, the show is

806
00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:31.960
listening by people around the world miles who really care

807
00:45:32.039 --> 00:45:34.639
about the world of work. They're either trying to improve

808
00:45:34.679 --> 00:45:37.599
themselves as a leader, they're trying to get more out

809
00:45:37.639 --> 00:45:39.559
of the world of work for themselves. What would you

810
00:45:39.639 --> 00:45:40.239
like to leave them with?

811
00:45:41.039 --> 00:45:44.840
Yeah, So as it relates to work, I think one

812
00:45:44.840 --> 00:45:46.800
of the most important things that you have to be

813
00:45:48.119 --> 00:45:50.920
open to. In addition to my point about you need

814
00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:55.559
to be authentic and therefore being comfortable being vulnerable, you

815
00:45:55.760 --> 00:46:00.760
have to be a consonant learner. You have to learn,

816
00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:04.599
learning and then apply right. So one of the concerns

817
00:46:04.679 --> 00:46:08.360
I have about I'll say, you know the gen zs

818
00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:14.360
in particular, is it's kind of a research demographic or

819
00:46:14.480 --> 00:46:17.480
generation where they learn stuff and so you see a

820
00:46:17.519 --> 00:46:20.199
lot of people listening and learning to things that they're

821
00:46:20.199 --> 00:46:24.039
not applying as fast. And so I really encourage that

822
00:46:24.400 --> 00:46:26.599
segment of the population because they're the future of the

823
00:46:27.079 --> 00:46:30.039
country frankly, and you know the world because they're younger

824
00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:32.400
in their work careers. Is you've got to be really

825
00:46:32.440 --> 00:46:34.960
good at learning and apply and you need to do

826
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:38.320
it fast, fast, fast. That's that rate of change is accelerated.

827
00:46:38.599 --> 00:46:41.840
You will have multiple careers. So anytime you're trying to

828
00:46:41.920 --> 00:46:44.679
become rigid in something, I think you need to challenge

829
00:46:44.719 --> 00:46:47.480
yourself and say, why are we being so rigid? And

830
00:46:47.559 --> 00:46:50.920
then the same thing for companies. What's interesting about companies is,

831
00:46:51.199 --> 00:46:54.239
at least even today, many of the people in leadership

832
00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:57.880
roles in those companies think about that. The future of

833
00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:00.599
the workforce is people should come up the company the

834
00:47:00.639 --> 00:47:04.199
way that I did, right, I know, nice, that couldn't

835
00:47:04.239 --> 00:47:09.400
be a bigger flawed mindset, agreed, And so you know

836
00:47:09.559 --> 00:47:11.920
that's what I would encourage. And then just one little

837
00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:15.039
little plug is I'm now working on a book about

838
00:47:16.159 --> 00:47:18.920
how a free bird thinks about their own health and

839
00:47:19.000 --> 00:47:22.920
health health conditions, because I do believe that individuals need

840
00:47:23.000 --> 00:47:25.280
to take their own health into their own hands and

841
00:47:25.480 --> 00:47:28.440
kind of be their own general practitioner. And when you

842
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:31.199
do that, you will live a much healthier life because

843
00:47:31.239 --> 00:47:34.000
there's a direct correlation between how healthy you are, how

844
00:47:34.079 --> 00:47:36.440
long you can work, and how happy you are, Yes,

845
00:47:36.679 --> 00:47:41.239
and ultimately your wealth. Right. Yes, more to come on

846
00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:43.719
those over the next year or so, but that's what

847
00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:44.920
I would leave it with at least.

848
00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:47.599
Okay, thanks Miles. Two things really quick, When is the

849
00:47:47.639 --> 00:47:51.599
book coming out, do out hopefully, Well, the new.

850
00:47:51.559 --> 00:47:53.639
Book on health will come out about a year from now.

851
00:47:54.039 --> 00:47:56.440
Okay, so you got to come back. So I've had

852
00:47:56.800 --> 00:47:59.039
you got to beat my record so far as four

853
00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:01.559
four times on because of new books. So you come

854
00:48:01.599 --> 00:48:03.840
back a second time. And then let's for our listeners

855
00:48:03.880 --> 00:48:06.000
and viewers. What's the name of the company that acquired

856
00:48:06.079 --> 00:48:08.920
NBO B line E Line? Okay, I want to make

857
00:48:08.920 --> 00:48:12.079
sure we get that right. Well, I really appreciate the

858
00:48:12.119 --> 00:48:14.320
work that you're doing, Miles. I'm very, very very aligned.

859
00:48:14.840 --> 00:48:17.039
I think you know, it is a book about life,

860
00:48:17.119 --> 00:48:20.079
not just work, and I think you've written something that's

861
00:48:20.159 --> 00:48:23.159
really really powerful for both individuals as a call to

862
00:48:23.360 --> 00:48:26.239
reach their further into their own potential, their own fulfillment,

863
00:48:26.800 --> 00:48:31.360
and I think radically shake how many leaders are looking

864
00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:34.119
at their workforce in a very very rigid limiting way.

865
00:48:34.280 --> 00:48:36.199
So I really applaud your work and I appreciate you

866
00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:37.480
coming on to working on purpose.

867
00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:40.119
Great. Thanks, Ellis, I appreciate it.

868
00:48:40.880 --> 00:48:43.280
Very welcome. Listeners and viewers, you are going to want

869
00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:45.559
to learn more about Miles Everson and the work Keenest

870
00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:48.760
team are doing at B Line. Now, I guess I

871
00:48:48.880 --> 00:48:50.599
was going to send them to MBO partners dot com.

872
00:48:50.719 --> 00:48:52.280
Is there a better site for them to go to? Now?

873
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:55.280
Partners dot com is still alive and okay.

874
00:48:55.199 --> 00:48:57.880
Mbo partners dot com. You can also find Miles on

875
00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:00.480
LinkedIn as well. Next week, we'll be on the air

876
00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:05.320
with Bill Jizuski talking about his new book, What's Your

877
00:49:05.360 --> 00:49:08.719
Life Score, a playbook for designing your best life. See

878
00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:10.280
you there, and remember that work is one of the

879
00:49:10.360 --> 00:49:12.840
best adventures and means of realizing our potential and making

880
00:49:12.880 --> 00:49:14.920
the impact we crave. It can give us the opportunity

881
00:49:14.920 --> 00:49:16.719
to do business in a way that betters the world.

882
00:49:17.159 --> 00:49:18.320
So let's work on Purpose.

883
00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:24.320
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to

884
00:49:24.400 --> 00:49:28.039
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,

885
00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:31.400
each week on W four C. Why Together, We'll create

886
00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:36.159
a world where business operates conscientiously, leadership inspires and passion performance,

887
00:49:36.280 --> 00:49:39.000
and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning

888
00:49:39.039 --> 00:49:42.840
and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work on Purpose.