Unleashing the Desire to Learn

What's working on purpose anyway? Each week we ponder the answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their highest potential. Business can be such a force for good in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we all want working on purpose. Now. Here is your host, Doctor Elise Cortez. Welcome back to the Working and Purpose Program. Thanks for tuning in again this week. I'm your host, Doctor Elise Cortes. Do when you live from Dallas, Texas, which is home based for me by wave introduction. I'm a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose. I'm an organizational logo therapist, inspirational speaker, social scientist, and an author. You can learn more about me in the work I do at least Cortes dot com or Gusto dash now dot com. If you've been tuning in for a while, you know this program as a thought leadership series that enlightens and inspires listeners and viewers. With insights from distinguished business leaders, authors and subject matter experts. By listening in, you're part of the movement to create inspirational leaders and enlightning workplaces where we can thrive and do business that betters the world. Glad you're here now. One of this week's program with us Today is John Baker, who founded D two Well in nineteen ninety nine the age of twenty two while attending the University of Waterloo. DTL is a global software company that believes learning is the foundation upon which all progress and achievement rests. We'll be talking about the importance of ongoing learning, how to retool the workplace, and what companies can do to help restart the economy. Joge Today from Canada. John, Welcome to Working on Purpose Alize. It's a real pleasure to join you. Thanks for having me on the show. Absolutely, I'm so glad that we found each other, thanks to the people that brought us together, your agent, et cetera. So when I meet people like you, John, who were literally up to something in life, I get so excited about that. So I'm happy to share you in your story with our listeners and viewers. And I want to start by talking about how D two L came to be and if I remember right, it stands for a desire to learn and I want to just share what I learned by reading it the chapter in the book that you have. But you say that you were interested in engineering and technology when your third year college systems design professor gave you an assignment to define a problem, something that was actually foreign to you at that time. So tell us why this experience was so formative to you and how it really led to D two Well, well, up until that point, you know, as an engineer, you're taught how to solve problems, not go find one. And so when you're you know, third year faculty member says, now it's time to go ahead and explore the world and find a problem that you can solve. It was it was a challenge, and so in our case, our little group, we decided to go off and reinvent crutches. This was a long time ago, and you know, the crutches really hadn't changed for a long time. So we went off and did something pretty amazing there with that. Technology went on and one awards and it got me thinking, well, what other really important problems are there to solve in the world, and that was what led to dto l So in my mind, I still remember walking across campus one day wrestling with that challenge, which was, what's the most important problem that I could solve that would have the biggest impact on the world. And I couldn't think of anything bigger than going and transforming the way the world learns because learning has this nice ripple effect. It ripples from one generation to the next, through your family, within the community or companies that you work in, and it really helps us solve some of the biggest challenges that we all face. So I rolled up my sleeves and as a third year student, decided that was what I wanted to do with my life, was to pursue that big challenge. Listeners and viewers, if you get nothing out of this conversation besides what he just said, that's it, right, that's the ticket. What is it that lights you up that you stand to be in service for your life? That is so amazing, And John, I want you to know the ripple effect has already started in my own immediate community thanks to you. This morning. I was so excited thinking about having this conversation with you. I talked to my seventeen year old daughter and I posed her that question, what do you so care about in the world that you want to stand for making a difference in solving in your lifetime? And of course you know, there wasn't an answer, but at least the question was was positive. So thank you already for helping with a ripple effect. It's beautiful. Well, it has an impact, and I can tell you at seventeen, I didn't know what I wanted to be either. My best guest was I wanted to go and become a doctor. But it takes time and you know, to find that purpose, which is why I actually really enjoy, you know, the opportunity to speak with you, because you've been pursuing that passion for a long time and in terms of helping people find their purpose and find meaning in the work. So looking forward to the call here today, Yeah, I'm so grateful that I get to live my purpose. But you were only twenty two when you figured this out. And what I thought thought was so great about what you wrote about and what you shared so far is once you got the idea that you wanted to start putting courses online, you went out and asked professors if you could put their courses online. You got five to agree, and that opened the door for you to consider, how can we use technology to reach every learner and thus transform the way the world learns, which is just phenomenal John twenty two years old. You figure that out saying more about how that happened and what was the process. How did you find those five original professors to start off with? Well, you gotta remember that was nineteen ninety nine, so that was just over twenty years ago, and and I didn't know how to do sales back then. I just simply went to my professors and knocked on their door and asked if they wanted to put their courses online. And at that time, you've got to remember, there was no internet in the classroom, and so I would have to show them, you know, with print outs, what their courses could look like in an online environment and walk them through what was possible. And it opened their eyes. You know, it was a situation where you know, you've got this young student coming into your office and uh, you know, talking about the future of learning and using the internet as a way to drive that transformation. And it was not an easy sell, but it was one where I gained enough confidence with a few folks that it made it easier for us to go get bigger and bigger programs when entire universities, when entire states, when and hopefully a longer term, entire countries get them to put their online education up. M. Well, let's fast forward twenty some years now, shall we, Because here you are today and if you correct these members so I don't have them quite right, but that they might not be completely fresh. But from my understanding, I believe your platform served fourteen point three million people in fifty four countries with nine hundred employees. That is breathtaking. Or those members still right, or those those are still accurate. Yeah, We've been working really hard to scale out our learning platform to support students in schools, universities as well as companies all over the world, and to take what was going on in the traditional classroom, first digitize it and then really try to, you know, find ways through technology optimize that experience for both the students as well as the instructor UH and then more recently really digging into truly transforming the actual experience. So getting at the heart of our mission where we can now that we're digital do things differently than what we did in the traditional classroom. So can you give an example then of that, John, what is a way that you're you're bringing the learning experience freshly into the digital realm where people can better access and enjoy it well as you can imagine as a student, you know you used to run down the hallway to deliver your paper to your teacher to to grate it. Yes, well, now now you can do that all online from your smartphone, so that you know that digitization has already happened. And then once we've done that, then we can we can change the model. So what do I mean by that? You know, typically in classes today you would add up all of your assignments that you've done over the course of a term, divide by the total, and that would be your mark. That would be how you would be assessed. Well, with digital technology, we can now do things a little differently, so we can have each of those learning objectives well defined, and then we can do all kinds of assessments against those learning objectives, so you can show your progress over time, going from not knowing something all the way to starting to master it to exceeding expectations to true mastery, and then that should be how you get evaluate. It's based upon that eventual outcome, not the journey along the way, if you will. And to me that that's that's one of the examples of true transformation here giving folks the ability to really demonstrate their skill sets as they develop and explore all kinds of new ways of learning, and as long as they achieve that outcome that they're desiring and in terms of getting on that path that they want to pursue, whether it's becoming an engineer or a doctor or whatever they want to do in life. But of course I know how meaningful and when we talk about meaning, we talk about motivation, how meaningful it is for people to feel a sense of mastery over over their skills and their abilities. And I think it's phenomenal that you're helping to feed that. And and to that end, you said something really interesting to me when when we were talking first on the phone about about this conversation, and you've said that the words study used to mean something different than what it means today. Will you contrast the before and now? Yeah, So I'm I study the history of words, so the etymology and uh. And study if you look back at the old original definitions that were written hundreds of years ago, you used to have a different definition. And so today, if you look up the word study in a in a dictionary, would talk about mental effort, attentive, careful, you know, everything you imagine in today's definition of study. But in the old days it used to refer to passion, pursuit, zeal, desire. You know, it's it's had a completely different meaning. And uh, and I think you know, as we build this technology, we're actually trying to get back to that old definition of study where people could pursue their passions, could discover new things, become a great researcher, dancer, musician, whatever they are passionate about, and yet still get through their academic journey and still achieve all the outcomes are supposed to achieve, whether it's you know, on the path of being a nurse or a doctor or whatever it might be. They're able to still achieve that in a more efficient a freeze up time for this other form of study. And to me, that's what education is really about. And you know, ironically, even as we're charging forward into the future in terms of building new technologies and actually is going to help us pull back some things that we've lost in the history as we've gone from one age to the next. That is so alluring to me, And of course I for the record, John, I embrace the old way of the old definition of study that it is for me. It's a passion for me. I've been going to school from most of my life. Remember when mother was still alife, She'd say, what are you can stop going to school? And I was like, I hope never, Mom, And She's like almost like fall over with a heart attack, right, but she's like, just stop already. But I'm I've I've been in a rapture with the idea of education for a long time. I've been a professor, and of course I feel like I'm teaching on the show. But from your vantage point, I'm interested if you could situate for us the role of ongoing learning in today's economy and workforce beyond I'm passionate about. But for for the workforce, I think I think you're while you're You're onto a really important topic there where. You know, when I started D two L, we thought we could have the biggest impact on people's lives in education. So and you know, whether it's key to twelve schools or university or college, that was where we're going to help set them up for life. Well that's changed in the last twenty years. So now today you know, once you graduate from university of college, you're really not done learning. And so we have to almost integrate learning into life so that every every day, every year, we're making progress towards the development of new skills, new ideas, and new pursuits so that we can continue to evolve in our career, make one leak from one job to the next, and make sure that we stay relevant, you know as we's as we've graduated and entered that workforce. And to me, it's more important to do that today than ever before, as the lifespan of traditional skills or shrinking and shrinking every year, you know, to the point today where traditional technical skills might be irrelevant five years after you learn them. So if you can imagine a traditional undergraduate degree that might take four or five years to complete, isn't the things that you learn in the year one are probably not relevant by the time you enter the workforce. So we need to have this constant, ongoing learning to really make sure that we're upskilling ourselves and reskilling and making sure that we stay current. I find that, of course, terribly exciting and alluring. But I know that there's there's a good number of people out there that probably hear that and go, oh, I thought it was done learning. I don't want to learn anymore. What do you say that that, Well, we're never done. I think we're done when we retire maybe, and even then I think we're probably still learning. Not to me. You know, every time that we get an opportunity to to learn new skills, it helps us grow as an individual. And I don't think we should we should just make it part of our work, part of our journey. It shouldn't be something that's, you know, we're not passionate about. I think we need to align those passions that you have with the learning that you're doing. And it doesn't seem like work. And I think, at least going back to the definition, if it's mental effort and careful and attentive, you know, that's one form of study. But I prefer the older definition that pursuit, that desire, that passion, And if we can align those things, it really helps us find a our purpose, but it also helps us continue to grow in our careers, which is so important, and especially as technology is sweeping through and revolutionizing the way that we do almost everything. Yeah. Well, a big reason I host the show, John, is because it is a learning spicket for me. I as you know, I read the books that people write in preparation for the conversations. I read your book chapter and some of the other things you've done because it helps me grow. So thank you for that, and I'm so glad to figure with me on air. Let's grab our first break. I'm doctor Lease Cortez, your host, were there with John Baker. He is the founder of D two. Well, we've been talking a bit about where the company came from and what he's trying to do in the world. After we're going to talk about retooling the workforce. Stay with us. We'll be right back. Doctor Lease Cortez is a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose and inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more, or to invite a lease to speak to your organization. Please visit her at a lease Cortez dot com. Let's talk about how to get you our employees working on purpose. This is Working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortez. To reach our program today or open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Elise ali Se at Elise Cortez dot com. Now back to working on Purpose. Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to Working on Purpose. I want to share with you something fun that happened in the pandemic. It's my pandemic Baby. By the way, I had a baby in the pandemic. It's called a book Purpose Ignited, How inspiring leaders ignite passion and elevate cause. So it's available on Amazon now. It came out of November, but it was something that I got to actually do while we were sort of shuttled in so I enjoyed it greatly and I hope it brings you something as well. If you're just joining the program. My guest is John Baker. He's the founder of D two Well. He joins it today from Canada. I'm your host, Doctor Release Cortesse. So John l us talk about retooling the workforce. And one of the things that I've really been excited about in my six years of post in this radio show is talking to various people about technology and how it changes we human beings in our lives and along with our work. So I've been very fascinated with how technological advance is like AI, robotics, etc. Kick humans upstairs, as I like to say, and they force us really into a constant retooling and a constant learning to remain viable and valuable in the workplace. What's your perspective on how technology catalyzes us on our learning. Well, a couple of things. So, first, there is a digital transformation in your way. You know, as of last year, the world economy digital representative about twelve percent of the world economy either digital native companies like Google or Facebook all the way through digitally transformed enterprises, and in the next three to four years we expect that number to grow to a fifty percent of the world economy. We learn a really accelerated part of the journey through a transformation. I think like the Industrial Revolution sped up on you know, on steroids, if you will. And so we've got a huge shift that's happening in our economy and ushered in by things like artificial intelligence or just simply technology and automation, robots, all kinds of other different things that are happening to transform that that workplace that we're in today. And so what it's driving is really the transformation of how we learn on how we adapt as employers. As an employee, to make sure that we constantly are giving ourselves time in our day to get the new skills that we're going to need to stay relevant through these transformations. Because you know, all the different studies that I'm reading a point to you know, thirty to fifty percent of the workforce being displaced from the work that they're doing today. But as an optimist, I also read the other part of the studies which say that there's going to be more jobs created than exist today. And so you've got this really dynamic, shifting environment which forces us to change in terms of what we're doing to stay ahead of this this transformation that's occurring at a much faster pace. So you're right, we've got to, you know, pick up more durable skills is the language I use. Lots of people refer to them as soft skills, but I think of them as durable creativity, problem solving, you know, writing, communication, all of these, Uh, these what we would normally think of as soft skills, I think are actually the durable skills for this transformation. Uh. You know, these are things that are going to be relevant no matter what role you're in, You're going to be able to utilize these. And then we also have their reskill and upskill ourselves to pick up these new new technologies, whether it's you know, wanting to pursue digital or other areas. There's all kinds of new skills that are in high high demand where there's hundreds of thousands of job openings today that are still unfilled because there's no one with those skills. Well, I think it's really exciting and just to sort of a position as far our listeners and our viewers as a simple story. A lot of people are very afraid of the idea of technology and taking over our lives or are out placing us from the workplace. But I remember distinctly, John a few years ago, when I was going I went to the Dallas Fort Worth Airport to check Adams going through security, and it's taking off my jacket and get my briefcase out, and I'm like, Wow, something's weird about this. What is weird? What's different about this situation? And I realized what was different was there was no longer a human being that was actually moving the bins from one side of the security side roller coaster or whatever it is, to the other. And it was actually mechanized. It was now on it was a it was on a belt, and I went My first immediate thought, John was good. I don't want the person who used to be in charge of moving those bins back and forth to spend their day doing that. I want them to be talking with travelers about their problems or how to get them to their next place. And I want them doing that instead. It's it's a better service if they're one precious life. And so i'd like you. I'm an optimist too, And of course we have to work at this right, So we have to work at this learning thing. It's not easy, but I also want to champion the optimism in this Oh absolutely, And by the way, I've flown through that airport many times, I've noticed the automation happening there as well, and all over the world. You're right, you know, our our lives are worth more than just carrying a bin from one location to another. And you know, I can't I can't tell you how many lives that they've already been spent on doing that task. So we can automate, then it frees us up to do the things that are more human. Yeah, exactly me. That's that is, that is why we're doing And it's not just because of technology, just to roll it out for technology's sake. It's to actually help free us to be more human. M I love that. That's so great. That's if we get again listeners, because nothing else out of this conversation. That's another one to take away. Let's be more human with technology. So now let's go into you a chapter in a book called Government, Government Digital, The Quest to Regain Public Trust. And you say in that in that chapter that for companies, learning and development of their employees is rapidly becoming a competitive driver, critical for attracting talent as well as retaining upskilling existing employees. I've long known this, but say more about it from your perspective. Well, I think even when we chatted before, you talked about how you know there's a large percentage of the workforce that's actively disengaged from work. I've seen studies it's up to sixty percent of the employee basis not really engaged in what they're doing in the course of a day, and so we've got a misalignment. We need to figure out how we actually spark those passions, and learning is one way to do that. So if we can say, here are all the in demand skills that we as an employer value, that are we think are the future of this job or this career or our company, and an employee gets to pick from that menu to say, oh, based upon where I am today and what I want to do in the future, I want to actually learn, you know, pick up a certificate here or a degree there, or it could be just simply be just a little course that steps me towards that eventual career pathway to me, that's where we start to get that alignment between you know, what you as an individual want to pursue is your passions and what the employer is looking for or and it doesn't necessarily have to be just up to the employer to help provide this. It could be bigger than that. But if we can get that alignment going it should drive better engagement, and that's what we're seeing. So we're you know, employers that we work with today that really invest heavily in learning are seeing retention to their employees dramatically, improved engagement scores going up dramatically, just all the key measures that you're looking for in including like client happiness or their clients happier with the services being provided. Well, yes, if you've got engaged employees that are learning, you know, and picking up these new skills, then yeah, the end result is a better business outcome. So you know, it's not that this is something that many employers are saying, well, I really don't want people to learn. It's just really hard to do this today. And so what we've tried to do as a company is make that really easy to create a number of different high demand skills that are in need for these employers and the associated courses being provided by our academic clients, and just trying to make that really easy for them to access both internally developed programs that are used to scale up their employees, but also to leverage programs that are built within our academic client base, whether it's a university or college that might be nearby. I want to situate here what you're saying and from my vantage point here, John So I a dear friend and colleague that I really ad my own respect. Bob Chapman, he's the CEO of Barry Wayne Miller. You know him, I think, yes, I think you actually think. I think you mentioned him and something that you wrote, did you. No, I've heard of him, but I don't know. He's a beautiful soul in the world doing really important work. But what he really talks about, John as he talks about the importance of leaders to care for their employees, and it's about caring and listening to them and steward in their lives as somebody's one precious child. And it occurs to me that if a company is giving their employees and education, they aren't really caring for them. They're caring for their well being and their ongoing fitness for life and work. And I think that's pretty beautiful. It couldn't be more right. So, you know, I'm an employer of nine hundred people, and you know, when we think of BET our benefits programs, we don't just think about wellness and health and you know, mental well being in all these other areas. We actually think education is an education benefit. And so if we can think about our benefits strategy a little bit broader to also include the mental development, the help that we can provide to our employees to really pursue their careers, then that's that's that's magic, you know, that's where we get this beautiful alignment, uh and can really support their their development and engagement. It. Absolutely love it. Okay, So next, you sort of mentioned this already, but I'd love for you to bring this to life for our listeners and viewers. But but you cite that in our fourth Industrial revolutionary times that skills within the span of a career will become absolute. You mentioned that already in the last segment. But you have some stats from that chapter that I wanted you to presence if you would that really talk about the what the import of this, would you share them with us? Yeah, So the expected lifespan of the skills is expected to be three to five years today, even for some technical skills. So it's just the staggering turnover of skill development. So if you learn how to develop software in a certain language, you know five years later you're probably learning a new framework or new technology. So even in the technology space, these skills are changing very very quickly. And so you've got that lifespan that's coming down, which demands that we learn learn new things all the time. But you've also got this other statistic which is pointing to about three hundred and fifty million jobs being displaced, and there's that's actually only on the low end. There's others studies that show six or seven hundred million, and that was pre pandemic. And if you look at the pandemic, you know, which I didn't write a book after the pandemic yet, but you know, the UN's actually sites spit two point four billion jobs were impacted during the height of the pandemic. So that was a lot of people that were displaced, even just temporarily from from employment from work. Shows how precarious our jobs actually are. And so we need to do everything we can to help make sure that you know, we're for folks that were displaced, the tens of millions in the US, that we do everything we can to re educate, get them back on the right track, and get them back on their feet. You know, even for me, John, I mean I look at this year and I've been asked some of my clients to take on different work than I really haven't done before, which this year has included doing more of like being hired as a both a thought leader as well as a media person to help steward topics and drive conversations. And so that's something that I that actually came from the pandemic. That's not something that I ever asked for it to do. It just it came my way because of the pandemic. So it's exciting to see really what's out there. And what I get excited about too, is I've got a seventeen year old daughter and I don't even know when she gets out of college in a few years, what's going to be available for her. I can't even cancel her today on what could she consider because it probably won't exist. Yeah. So, well there's a lot of jobs that are going to exist that that don't exist today. So you know, five years ago, would you have thought that being a drone pilot could have been a job? Oh no, what about you know, what about someone that's designing you know, systems support self driving trucks? Well that didn't exist five years ago either, And so there's all kinds of jobs being created, and so I wouldn't worry so much about they're not being a job. At the end of this, there's going to be millions and millions of jobs, more than we actually have today. But what we need to do is figure out what what are the skills that I'm going to need. They're going to help set my set me up and or my daughter up to make sure that she has the skills in an area that she's passionate about for that future. And so there's by the way, there's no there's not gonna be any shortage of you know, jobs in the medical space, whether it's sing or you know, support workers, you name it, there's a lot of jobs there. Same thing in technology, there's there's going to be you know, millions of more jobs that open up as we continue to embrace technology. And then every single field, if you can imagine, it's going to go through this digital transformation. So whether it's insurance or banks, or governments or every industry is going to have this big change as we ripple technology through each one of these So you know, picking up some technology skills or even these durable skills around creativity or problem solving, critical thinking, all of these skills are going to be really relevant to be a big actor or a big player in making those trans transformations happen for these companies, for these organizations. M hm. You already mentioned things like creativity and emotional intelligence and such. But one of the things that I'm so aware of is just that a lack of critical thinking skills. It just I just I think we would have a very different outcome of how it is that we debate and how we even consider politics if we could, if we could improve our our critical thinking skills. Your perspective there, and does does dto Well specifically address that? Yeah, well, you know, I couldn't agree with you more. I think if we're going to solve some of the most important problems that we have to tackle, uh, you know, we need people that can problem solve, that can think critically, And we also need to change how we educate students, both in the schools as well as the universities to really lean into these terrible skills. If we're not providing opportunity for them to think critically, to problem solve, to demonstrate entrepreneurial thinking, whatever domain you want to pick, then we're really not setting them setting those students up for success for their future. We're not preparing them for what comes next, you know. I think there's lots of different ways we could do this that don't require a huge disruption too, where we could do things like work integrated learning, where we take a student that's going through high school or going through university or college and get them a work experience so that they can understand some of the challenges that are in that environment, discover if they like that environment, but also at the same time use it as an opportunity to really feed back into our colleges and universities. Well, here's here's the real world problems that we're trying to solve out there, and create that feedback loop back into the universities and colleges to help nudge nudge them forward in terms of their thinking about programming or how they're providing their education to their students. I love that. I'm in for that, Joan. I love that feedback's key at least, Like you know, I think it is almost like a virtual feedback loop, right where you know, the more feedback the better for both the education system as well as for the students as well as for the employer. You get this great circle going. Yeah, that's amazing. It's that it's so fresh, right, I know, for my daughter, for example, she doesn't she doesn't like her language art class. I'm realizing it's because she doesn't understand how it relates to the world, and she doesn't there's not a connection for her. How does this show up in everyday life? And it's a real missing and of course it's such an important part of my life. But so I'm like, how do I get this across to her? Lost? Storytelling? It's such a huge I know, I know, and I do it all the time every week, Right, we're doing a story of some kind, right, Yeah, So the feedback loop is amazing and I appreciate very much how you're bringing this to life for our listeners and our viewers. It's great to have you on. Let's grab our last break. I'm doctor Lee's Cortez. We've been on the air with John Baker. He is the founder of D two. Well, we've been talking a bit about restarting or retooling the workplace. After the break, we're gonna talk about restarting the economy post COVID. Stay with us, we'll be right back. Doctor Release Cortez as a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose and inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her at Eleise Cortez dot com. Let's talk about how to get your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortez. To reach our program today or open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Elise Alis at Elise Cortez dot com. Now back to working on purpose. Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to working on purpose. If you didn't already know this, if you didn't hear another announcement, I did actually just launch a new platform. It's called Gusto Now. It's an e learning transformation platform for my leadership program and I do it in English, Spanish and Portuguese those are my favorite languages. And for my listeners, I do offer a discount of twenty percent, so you just when you check out. It's WOP twenty. If you're just turning in. My guest is John Baker. He is the founder of D two L So for this next bit here, John, I wanted to talk about how we can restart the economy, but before we do that, I want to position just the problem of engagement that we talked about early on. So you know that for me, right, I'm really really interested in how how many people want to come to work because I think it's such a precious important part of life. And yet, as you say, we have a real problem with disengagement across the world. And your chapter that I mentioned earlier sites at roughly five hundred US billion dollars is lost in productivity through lack of engagement, with sixty eight percent of the workforce not feeling engaged with what they do. So situate for us why that is such a problem for companies, Well, that's if the billions of dollars don't underscore how big of a problem that is. It's I don't I don't know what we all, but the you know, at the heart of it is if you if you've got an engaged workforce, they're going to run through walls to solve problems. For your customers and for your company and really help you take that next leap that you're going to need to thrive in this this new environment. Whereas if they're not engaged, they're they're actively looking for work, or they're you know, they're completely checked out of what they're doing today, and that's not a good situation. And so you know, to me, we need to work on fixing those statistics. We measure those, by the way, at our own company all the time, doing pulse surveys, doing you know, full year surveys, just trying to make sure that we're building a great culture and that you know, people are fully engaged, and just simply ask, you know, are you engaged? Are you really liking the work that you're doing, and if not, what is it that we can do to help you on the right track. You know, I meet with every employee in our company at least once a year and I ask them really one simple question. It seems simple the face of it is, I just ask, you know, you're probably be doing a one hundred different things for us, Well, what's one thing that's going to be an example of you doing the best work of your life? Something that you're going to be proud to tell your parents about your family, your friends, something that's really going to be in a demonstration of you putting in on a personal best and how are you carving out enough time in the day to actually get that done. And so it's really trying to help people connect what they're working on to how they're growing as a person, to how they're really having an impact and how you know, we're trying to do everything we can to align about around them becoming world class at their craft. Doesn't matter if you're a people leader or an individual contributor. You know, we want you to be world class at that craft. That's so beautiful, John, Can I come to work for you too? Yeah, anytime you can help our people find purpose, it has a huge impact. I know we had we brought it in and you're gonna laugh at this one leaves, but we brought in an artist into what we call it like our Artists in Residence program, and she went around to every team, you know, back when we were in the office, and she visited with each team, said well, what kind of art would you like hanging on your walls? And she took it on herself to actually go build a connection with folks all over the organization and we now have this amazing collection of art hanging all through the office that's really a reflection of the teams that are within the organization as well as this artist. And what we discovered through that was you know, her working with the you know the software developers in some cases, help them find a voice, help them articulate what it is that they really were passionate about or what they really cared about. So it's not just about you know, building an environment where you're making this, you know, part of the hr mantra. It's also trying to figure out how to incorporate others into the work environment that are going to draw out the best of your people. There's nothing funny or laughable about that to me, John, I think it's absolutely stunning and exquisite, and more more organizations out to do that. I think that's a fantastic example. I'm glad you shared it. It's beautiful. Plus it gets rid of the blank walls, the walls right exactly, never mind the wallpaper in the pain let's let's let's do art. I like it all right. Well, next, I want to really have you if you would situate for our our our listeners, and our viewers. Just really from your perspective the ten thousand foot level, what COVID has done to the workplace, What does that look like from your advantage point. Yeah, it's been a huge transformation of the workplace. So in many respects, we've been pulled into the future and it's created almost this fog over you know, how do we navigate these next steps? You know, whether we're remote working from home or in the workplace, how do we make sure we're doing things in a way that's gonna help us get from where we are today to where we're feeling comfortable, safe and secure and making sure that we're doing the best that we can to set up that workplace for the future. You know, there's a there's a line that I like, which is, you know, there are many decades where nothing happens, and then there are years where decades happen. And this has been one of those years where a lot has happened that's disrupted many workplaces, that's transformed them. That's you know, I had to really impact on how we actually engage with the office, if you will. In particular, you know, if I look at the really big picture you know, we've seen about two point four billion jobs get impacted in one way or another through this pandemic around the world. In education, we've seen one point one billion students get impacted with their education. Many of them have actually seeing tremendous learning loss because in some cases schools have not even reopened in some countries around the world, And so this has this huge ripple effect that's going to create issues in the workplace as well too. And then I sat on an industry Strategy Council which was looking at mapping how do we actually restart, recover, and reimagine the economy to get the economy back on the right track. And so what can we do today to make purposeful investments today that are help going to help bend that curve back up in the right direction to get our economy back on the right track and get people back to work and make work meaningful for folks. All music to my eyears now. One thing that I'm also very aware of. I mean, my business obviously really did take a different turn for this year, and I was able to innovate new products and services in the quiet time. And I'm very cautious that for many people their their jobs have either gone away entirely or they've lost their jobs. So what advice do you have for people who have lost their jobs in this pandemic. There's there are lots of people still looking for employees. There's a lot of different jobs that have been created through this pandemic, and it's it's about you know, reaching out, figuring out which which of these employers. You know, it's not a big leap for you to make in terms of a transition to get back on your feet and take the time to invest in some of your education to sharpen these skills that you've you've developed over the years. You'll be amazed at how transferable they are from one industry to a next, or from one one job to the next. And together, we're gonna we're gonna do everything we can to get you on boarded into the these different industries that are that are looking for talent today. And you know, I'm I'm also optimistic that the vaccines are going to have an impact in terms of helping many different employers get back on the right track. And there are a lot of different sectors that were severely negatively impacted with this with COVID nineteen. You know, whether it's the airline, retail and in some areas, or hospitality in particular, all of these I've been really impacted. Arts and culture would I would argue, has also been really impacted. Absolutely and so. But at the same time, if you look at the growth curse for each of these industries from this point forward, they are growing, They're going to get back on the right track over the course next at a while, and they're going to need people to get re onboarded. But at the same time, if you can, if you're not patient to wait for those jobs to be created over the next year or two, you know, how do you jump into another high demand area today that are where people are desperate for people to come in to support the growth of these sectors. M Well, I think it's so exciting, right, the idea that I mean, for example, the work that I do today, John, I would have never guessed when I was in my twenties that I would be a managed with consultant specialized and meaning and purpose, or that I would have a book out, or I'd host a radio show. I would have never imagined that. And yet I still don't even know what I'm in folding into further around the corner, and I find that really exciting. Well yeah, well, I mean you're probably a living proof that these these skills that you've developed in your education are really transferable. From becoming a professor to teaching, to management, consulting, to radio show to video. All of these are examples of you stretching and going beyond what the original intention was for that education then and to your point, and doing it more increasingly more through technology. Yeah, that is one thing that I see is we're almost sitting on this crossroads where, you know, we're either going to just simply consume technology being built somewhere else, or we're going to start to build the technology. And so I'm advocating for a lot more people to jump into stem into you know what we think of a steam now if you include the arts to really support these high, high demand, high growth areas. Definitely believe in supporting the arts, especially to stoke the creativity their critical problem solving all those sorts of things. So completely, let's bring the arts back. Please, exactly what are from your vantage point, John, You work with a lot of different organizations all over the world. What are some of the things you would suggest companies do to help start the economy restart the economy. Well, there's one universal that I've It doesn't matter which sector I've talked to, and I've talked to probably at least a thousand CEOs over the course of the last few months and hundreds of different organizations, and one universal has been upskilling and reskilling. So it doesn't matter what sector they're in. They're going through transformation, and so they're looking for investments into the new skills that are going to help them navigate these new waters. And so again, I you know, I know I've got a little bit of a bias because I've build a learning company. But that thing that that really that stood out to me, which was every conversation, so whether it was an airline CEO or a big retailer or someone that was largely in the hospitality sector, reskilling was a common thread. But upskilling was a surprising one. Investment in new education for their existing employees to help them pick up the skills they're going to need to transform their industry as it either goes green in some cases, or goes to digital, or is transformed in one way or another. And so that universal translates to me, is trying to figure out, well, what programs can I build internally, how can I get really good at doing that, or what kind of partnerships can I build with academic community so that can leverage all the great work that's been done in our in our communities and connect the dots to make it easier for my employees. And so we're trying to build solutions and technology in that space to make that even easier. But I'd also say have a conversation with your employees. Yeah, you know, when times are on certain communication is so critical. You know. I don't know about you, but in my company, we went from meeting weekly or monthly and with some teams to daily, doing just simple daily stand ups. Nothing provides better reassurance in terms of alignment and making sure people are on the right path and just simply just checking in to make sure people are okay. Those things make a real difference in helping people rally to the new new strategy. Yeah, it takes it really takes something, and you've got to work on that well being for sure. And to that end, John, we're getting close to the end of the show here, But if you could what are I've been trying to ask as many people as I can this question, but what are some of the biggest lessons we should take away from this pandemic? How people matter? You know, I keep coming back to there's so many things that have gone wrong during this pandemic, but one of the things that I've I've really liked hearing about is all the stories of people leaning in, working with each other, helping each other through these these challenges, and looking out for each other, picking each other up when when people are down. You know, uh, you know, you can look at a pandemic and see this as you know, seeing it as the worst of times, but you can also see some of the best of humans coming together to help each other out during these tough times. And to me, I choose to look at the good, the silver linings, the the the tests of our character and our values coming through and how we deal with with people. Me too, I'm also several silver lining goal. So here we are, John. We we've managed to use up already one one hour of our time. Were at the end of the show. This show, as you know, is listened to by people across the world, and it's really designed to help people develop a more meaning and infused culture and inspirational leadership. And given that, what which like cla our listeners with saying about thirty seconds, Well, uh, you know, we're talking a lot about transformation of our economy and the digitization of it, but the end result is a more human outcome. So giving people back time to pursue, you know, their passions, being able to help people go from routine jobs to hopefully ones that give them an opportunity to express their passions, their creativity, their leadership. And to me, that's the best is when we can move up that value chain, if you will, and stop doing the busy work and start doing the really, really impactful work that's going to have a real impact on business outcomes, on in my case, educational outcomes, and really supporting you know, the people that are in our in our in the world around us. So I wish you all the best as you navigate these waters, and if I could ever help, I'm just an email away. Thank you, Jan Thank you so much for joining us today. It was a tremendous privilege and pleasure to have you and share what you're doing in the world. Thank you for that, and thank you for being you and doing what you're doing in the world. Thank you for being you and helping people find their purpose. Absolutely, I love it. It's my jam. Listeners and viewers. You want to learn more about John Baker and the work they do at dtwo wel go to their website it's just DTL dot com. Last week, you can missed the show live, you can always catch to be a recorded podcast. We're on there with Michael Levy, he's the CEO of Work Proud, talking about how companies can create cultures of meeting and appreciation that drive performance and retention. Next week will be on the air with Renee Shermach talking about her book and Human Transformation and her work as well. Her book is called How to Be Your Biggest Fan The Value and Power of High Self Esteem. So you there, remember that work is at least a third of our life. So let's work on purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to tune in too Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortez each week on the Voice America Empowerment Channel. Together, we'll create a world where business rates conscientiously, leadership inspires impassioned performance, and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning and purpose. They crave see you there. Let's work on purpose.