Unleashing Business as the Force for Healing

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortes. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five, it's working

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on purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortes. Welcome back to

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the Working on Purpose Show. Thanks
for tuning in again this week. I'm

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your host, Elise Cortes, joining
you live from Dallas, Texas, which

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is home base for me. If
you've been tuning in for a while,

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you know this program is designed to
be an inspirational thought leadership platform that advances

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the conversation on living with passion and
inspiration and working on purpose and as I'm

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committed to help and create a world
where people actually want to go to work.

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The content choices are designed to help
equip leaders inside organizations to make work

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a fulfilling part of life so employees
thrive, give their best performance and want

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to stay. I talk with my
guests a drown their expertise and share my

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own experience consulting, speaking and developing
workforces across the globe. With us today

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is doctor Raj Sosodia, an F. W Olan, Distinguished Professor of Global

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Business and Whole Foods Market Research Scholar
in Conscious Capitalism at Babson College. He

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is the co founder and co chairman
of Conscious Capitalism, Inc. And the

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author of eleven books and over one
hundred academic articles. Today we'll be talking

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about his latest book, The Healing
Organization. We'll Wakening the Conscience of Business

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to Save the World. You joined
it today from Boston, Massachusetts. Doctor

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Sosodia, Welcome to Working on Purpose. Thank you, very happy to be

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with you. Ellis Well, I'm
happy to have you today too, because

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today we're pre recording this conversation on
January thirty, which is my birthday,

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So today you are my birthday present. Thank you. You are a wonderful

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present. So I'm looking forward to
this conversation. I want to get as

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much out of you as i possibly
Canada's time, and I want to say

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for our listeners benefit that I discovered
you because I am a member here in

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Dallas of Conscious Capitalism. The group
here and one of the presenters had mentioned

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you and your various books, and
that's how I got to know about you.

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And of course you're all about enlightened
business management. And I want to

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just open our conversation by something that
you wrote in your book that really moved

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me to tears. So let our
listeners get to know you a little bit.

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And you say, I quote I
remember the moment when I found my

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purpose, or more accurately, when
my purpose found me. On June twelfth,

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two thousand and five, I was
researching stories of how some companies were

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demonstrating deep and authentic caring to their
customers, employees, communities and was moved

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to tears. Never prior having had
a positive emotional response to your work before

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I realized there is a better way. Not only did I find one,

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I discovered a bonus to a better
way. It wasn't just more caring and

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humane, it was also far more
profitable. Doctor. So do you that

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is just beautiful? Thank you.
Yeah. This was in the process of

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writing the book that eventually became Firms
of Endearment how one class company's profit from

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passion and purpose, And we indeed
discovered a whole different way of being in

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business that was very different from the
traditional narrative that I had been taught in

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business school, that I was in
fact teaching as a business professor, that

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the only purpose of business is to
maximize profits, creature older value, and

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we use all the other stakeholders for
that reason. And I found a way

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of being where it was really about
authentically caring for people and their well being.

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It was having a purpose in the
world, separate from profit leaders who

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cared about people, who cared about
the purpose. It wasn't just about power

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and money and cultures where people actually
look forward to going to work. And

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we found that those companies that fit
those criteria, which we now refer to

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as the tenets of conscious Capitalism,
actually succeed far better in financial terms as

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well. It was nine to one
in the original research that was published in

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that book over a ten year period, while they're also creating many other kinds

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of value and well being for people. So it's not just that they're squeezing

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everything out of people. They're actually
contributing to people's lives while they're also creating

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great abundance financial attendance. So that
was a turning point in my life.

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And as I said, the emotional
reaction that I had to those stories.

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I think told me something. You
know that there's you know, business operates

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at the level of the head and
sometimes emotions. We kind of manipulate people's

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emotions, but we really don't operate
the level of the heart and the soul.

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And I think that's what this journey
is about. It's about love,

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and it's about purpose. Those are
deeper human motivations that we can tap into

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and achieve, you know, and
your work is all about that at least.

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So I'm very happy to be bringing
this to you. Thank you,

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Thank you for that. Yes,
and I did, as you know,

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read your book Forms of Endearment and
found it incredibly compelling and so incredibly still

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useful. So much of the world
just is not there yet, doctor Sosdia.

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I know you wrote that book many
years ago, but the world still

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needs to catch up. So we
got to keep talking about this. So

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for our listeners benefit who don't know
you as I do, would you just

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sketch a little bit of your background
and of an interest in perspectives and various

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involvements that led you and Michael Gelb
to write this leader's book, The Healing

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Organization. Yeah, so I would
say that it's the continuation of my journey

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which really changed trajectories around two thousand
and five, and I have that awakening

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and kind of my purpose found me, and that led to terms of endearment,

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which led to Conscious Capitalism, the
movement, and ultimately the book and

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then other books followed, the one
on the feminization or the rise of feminine

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values and the need to bring more
feminine values into leadership, which is called

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Shack the Leadership, and then a
book call Everybody Matters, as well as

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a field guide. So that evolution
of that thinking and just thinking more deeply

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about these principles and pillars of conscious
capitalism ultimately led me to this realization that

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I've been using healing as an acronym
for the qualities of a great purpose.

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It stands for heroic and evolving and
aligning and loving and inspiring, natural and

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galvinizing. But as I thought more
deeply about that, I realized that there's

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something more hidden there that ultimately I
believe that the fundamental purpose of business is

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for us to take care of each
other. It's for us to uncover and

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meet each other's needs. And when
you do that, you actually make somebody

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whole. You heal them in that
dimension when you uncover and meet their real

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needs, right, And if we
operate with that energy, we're actually going

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to heal them, but we actually
don't, for the most part do that.

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Business is for the most part,
exploiting opportunities, right, figuring out

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how we can make money by using
people, using customers and employees and others.

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Right. So the energy behind it
is one of using and exploiting rather

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than serving and taking care of.
And that makes all the difference because on

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the surface it might look the same, but when you have the energy of

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taking care of and serving, then
you actually make people's lives better and you

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heal them. Otherwise you actually cause
suffering. So that was kind of the

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instant that said, Wow, business
can be done in a way that on

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the surface looks the same. But
one way causes suffering, in the other

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way causes joy and healing. How
can we explore that idea? I like

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it, and to that end,
I want to share with our listeners what

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I found to be wonderful audacity and
the way in your opening chapter, doctor,

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so Soodia, let me read it
a little short bit here, and

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then if you could comment on it. You say, I quote. Imagine

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a company whose CEO set out to
pay people as much as possible, help

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communities and distress before FEMA and the
Red Cross when there was a disaster,

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treated your spouse and kids and pets
as stakeholders, reduced the company environmental footprint

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to zero, or made a positive
contribution of the ecosystem. Was willing to

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hire seventy million Americans with criminal records
and give them a first chance, an

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opportunity to build a happy life,
raise a family, and become productive,

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tax paying citizens, and they're more
profitable and prosperous than their industry peers.

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Imagine that that sounds like a world
I want to live in. It sounds

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utopian. But this is really a
collection of some of the stories and the

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right I mean, these are all
things that various companies did, and all

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of the companies that we feature in
the book are generally more successful than the

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average company in the industry, and
by in some case sesstematically. So that's

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a big part of our movement to
show that we don't have to make a

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false choice between succeeding in material terms
or creating financial abundance and being human and

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humane and loving and caring that those
two things actually go together, that we

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don't have to inflict suffering on people
and in fact even cause death and despair

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among people to make money, in
fact quite the opposite. That's a very

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very important message because a lot of
people can dismiss firms of Indian know these

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kinds of works as say, oh, these are just do gooders and they

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don't actually care about making money in
the world, and they can't ultimately compete

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and succeed. No, we believe
these companies are actually more successful. They

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are more resilient, they are more
competitive, they are stronger. As I

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said, in terms of Indian endearing
companies are India in companies and the ones

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that ultimately survive because they have all
the stakeholders are emotionally invested in their in

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their success right. So again it
breaks that trade off mentality that we have.

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You know, so much of life
is about the mental models with which

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we operate and how we think the
world works, and we're trying to show

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that there's actually a different way in
which these things can work. Business is

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the ultimate win win game in the
world, but for the most part,

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we practice it like it's a win
lose game, and every win lose game

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ultimately is a lose lose game,
right, so we need to change that

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model. Well, I completely agree. I'm with you. I'm one of

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your I'm one of your soldiers,
doctors of sodiu. I'm right there with

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you. Well, we don't like, we don't like the military metaphors of

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sorry about that. Yes, you're
right, But that's a good point though,

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that you raised there, because you
know, so much of our business

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way of thinking and language and way
of being is actually derived from the military

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and from conflict. Right. If
we look at hierarchy and command and control,

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and then strategy, tactics, operations, front line, headquarters, staff,

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learning, trenches, soldiers, etc. Those are all military terms.

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And the reason is that in the
nineteenth century when we started to have large

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companies, the only models that existed
are armies. So we kind of borrowed

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the way of running an army and
to apply that to running a company.

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But you know, business is not
war, and business is not about killing

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and destroying and dominating. Our business
is about serving and taking care of right

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and elevating. So we need different
metaphors. And I think we have to

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watch out when we fall into because
it's now deeply ingrained in us to use

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that language. Well, you're right, I just did it, right,

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I absolutely just did, and I
just demonstrated it well. And to that

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on introcesty, one of the things
that I well, there are many things

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I found compelling about your book,
but you have a way in that one

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of the earlier chapters here of really
presencing just the pervasiveness of business and its

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dominant force in today's life. And
I think could you paint for us a

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little bit of that picture of both
how business really serves us well and how

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it doesn't today. Yeah, Well, you know, in a free society,

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business it pretty much impacts, saying, ninety percent of our lives,

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right, I mean, governments don't
and are supposed to meet our needs.

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Businesses are given the opportunity but also
the responsibility to do that. Right,

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So almost everything that happens in our
lives is impacted by the way in which

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businesses operate. And if the business
culture is one of purely you know,

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based upon profit maximization, shareholder,
you know, that becomes greed and exploitation

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and using and you know the power
and ego and money. That's what it's

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all about. And that causes many, many kinds of suffering in our lives.

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You know, we start to look
at our fellow citizens really as people

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to be used and exploited. We
start to see what can we get out

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of them? How can we strict
them, how can we squeeze more out

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of them? You know, one
of the things realizations that I had along

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the journey of writing this book on
healing was I needed to heal myself and

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we need to actually take time off
and go on a variety of different healing

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experiences. One in the Himala is, one in the Amazon rainforest, and

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silent retreat and working with coaches and
all kinds of things, right, and

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then some of the realizations that I
had is that we need to actually get

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back to these four things that we've
lost sight of its love, innocence,

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simplicity, and truth. And you
know, business has gone far away from

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these things. And that's kind of
the insight that I received on one of

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my silent retreats, is that this
is what the world of business has gone

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away from, and this is what
we need to get to. We are

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operating in the opposite way of all
of those words without love, and we've

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lost our innocence. We're exploiting and
using each other. We've made things overly

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complex, and we have no commitment
to the truth. If we can get

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back to those things, so embrace
those things, I think it will make

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a tremendous difference. I completely agree. Now. I'm wondering when I was

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going through your book there and I
found you talk about four essential energies that

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you think that you say are best
embodied in organizations and what you just said

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there, and wondering if they're connected. I thought I read one to be

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tough minded, which is the masculine
energy, two tender hearted, de feminine

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energy. Three to be wise and
connected to our principled, wise higher selves,

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and for being playful and retaining joy. Is that related to what you

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just were talking about, doctor,
so Sodia, It's it's connected. I

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mean, it's not a one two
one thing, but yeah, this is

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a you know what I call the
uh we also might call the mili mina.

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I refer to this as the wise
fool of tough love. You as

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one human being simultaneously be wise and
foolish and tough and loving. And often

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we think that we're one of those
things or the you know two of those

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things, but not all. We
need to be all of those things.

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And that's what it means to be
a whole human. That what it means

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to have all the four energies represented
in a company, in a society,

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et cetera. We need all of
them in their healthy manifestations because each of

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them has a dark side or a
toxic side. And we can have a

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hyper masculine approb which is domination,
aggression, you know, hyper competition,

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winning at all costs outs, et
cetera. We can have the hyper feminine,

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which can become sentimental and needy and
dependent. We can have sort of

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dogmatic so elder energy rather than the
wise and loving elder energy. And then

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we can have sort of the adolescent
and immature child instead of the joyful in

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a child that we're talking about.
So again, we need to cultivate the

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positive aspects of all four of those
as leaders and also make them part of

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the cultures of our companies and our
communities. And I completely agree with that,

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and I do that work too to
help do that for myself as well.

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And in fact, you said you'd
done some work for yourself to put

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your own healing this year, doctor
Sosdia. I will be doing a two

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hundred kilometer race in Bhutan in May
over six days and stages, so you

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end up running about a marathon a
day through trails and such in villages,

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and we get to stay amongst villages
and finish at the monastery and the cliff.

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But I'm doing it for very much
the same reason that you did yours,

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and I am trying to cultivate that
full being in myself so that I

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can be a higher service to my
clients, just like you're saying. So

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really appreciate very much your message.
Yeah, that's wonderful. M One of

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the things that I to me that
your work just makes complete, absolute sense.

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But I do encounter people that just
don't seem to get it. But

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you do say in your book,
you say that once someone understands capitalism can

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evolve to can evolve to meet genuine
human needs, creating value, being of

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service to one another, and we
can fulfill our own self interest in a

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much richer deeper way. Once you
know that is possible, why would you

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consider doing anything else and settling for
less. I completely agree with that,

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but I do encounter people still who
don't believe this yeah, And I think

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it's you know, it's years of
conditioning, it's what they were taught.

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It's a belief system that they hold, and you know, in many cases

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it has served them individually well.
So if you've got a CEO who primarily

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is motivated by power and money,
which by the way, I would say

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the majority of CEOs that are currently
CEOs of large companies are primarily motivated by

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power and money, and the system
has served them very well, right,

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And so they don't see anything wrong
with it, really, despite the fact

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that there's all this untold suffering that's
going on with the employees and the families

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of the employees, and what's happening
in the communities and the environment, and

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even their customers' help might be affected. So they don't see it because they

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don't feel it personally and they don't
actually care about those other things. So

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I think that's a matter of elevating
their consciousness awakening, or maybe in some

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cases we just need leaders with a
different consciousness at the top. Right,

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If you have a leader who's primarily
motivated by money, then that's what they're

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going to operate the business in a
certain way. And it's so I'm going

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to end up using and exploiting people. So I think that's really the challenge

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that we have. You know that
we have to awaken the leaders or there

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or we have to have leaders with
a different consciousness in place, because for

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some people, you know, they
say you will see it when you believe

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it. So if you just don't
believe it, you will never see it.

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You will argue to the death that
this is just not possible. If

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you want to make money and to
focus resolutely on making money, make that

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your primary purpose. We show that
that if you do that that actually is

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harmful, you will be less successful
over time. You know, Victor Frankel

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daughters that at an individual level,
another person meaning right, yeah, yes,

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that's another another one of my major
focai as well. Yeah, with

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that, doctor Sosia, let's grab
our first break. I'm your host at

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Least Cortes. We've got in the
year with doctor Raj Sosodia, an fw

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all and Distinguished Professor of Global Business
and Whole Foods Market Research Scholar in Conscious

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Capitalism at Babson College. He's the
co founder and co chairman of Conscious Capitalism,

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Inc. And he's the co author
of Conscious Capitalism, Liberating the Heroic

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Spirit of Business, and Wall Street
Journal bestseller Everybody Matters. He joined it

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today from Boston, Massachusetts. We've
been talking a bit about where his interest

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came from for this for this current
book, The Healing Organization After the Kree.

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You to some of the stories that
he shares from the book. Stay

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with us, We'll be right back. Alise Cortes is a speaker and engagement

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and development catalyst. She designs and
delivers professional development, leadership and engagement workshops

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and can bring her expertise to your
organization. She will help ignite meaningful development

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within your workforce that will increase employee
engagement, performance and retention. To learn

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more or to invite Elise to speak
to your organization, please visit her at

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www dot Elisecortes dot com. She
would welcome the opportunity to help get your

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employees working on purpose. This is
working on Purpose with Elise Cortes. To

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reach our program today, send an
email to a lease Alise at Aliscortes dot

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00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:22.880
com. Now back to working on
Purpose. Thanks for staying with us,

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and welcome back to working on Purpose. If you're just joining us, my

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guest is doctor Raj Sosodia, the
co founder and co chairman of Conscious Capitalism,

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Inc. And the co author of
the healing organization Awakening the Conscience of

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Business to help save the world.
I'm your host, Alis Cortes. Before

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we get into the story, start
to this idea, I want to say

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something about the conversation that the Business
Roundtable Statement of Purpose that was kicked off

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last August twenty nineteen, and it
was really for the listeners who haven't seen

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this. The idea was that business
was to serve all stakeholders. And I've

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been very interested in the counter arguments
that that has spurred. What is your

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stance, what's your what's your finger
on the pulse for this conversation? Why

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do you think it's so it's stirring
up so much contention the Business Roundtable statement?

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Yes, yeah, I think again, it's what I was talking about

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earlier. I know. So there
are some i would say, fundamentalist capitalists

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out there, right, so the
Milton Friedman school which still exists and a

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lot of people still subscribe to that
that business is only about profit maximization.

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Everything else is a distraction from that. So when the Business Roundtable says no,

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you need to have a purpose separate
from that. You need to take

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care of all your stakeholders, not
just as shareholders. That to them,

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you know, just doesn't ring true
with their belief system. And so I

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think we're, you know, that's
we're in the middle of that transition.

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I think it's kind of a paradigm
shift that's happening, and there's going to

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be a lot of resistance. Anytime
there's a new paradigm that's trying to upend

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an existing paradigm, you're going to
see, you know, it's kind of

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like episode two of Star Wars.
It's kind of the Empire strikes back.

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It's like you're the Force awakens.
That's been going on for a while.

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The Force has been awakening, but
then the Empire always strikes back, right,

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and then there's always a third chapter, which is the Return of the

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Jedi is sort of the conclusion of
that. Right, I think we are

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to stay with it. We go, we know we're going to encounter resistance.

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But this is indeed a better way, and this is the only way.

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We can no longer afford that old
way because that has in fact caused

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too many of the so called externalities
which are now adding up. You know,

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that's simply not tenable anymore. We
will destroy ourselves and destroy the planet

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if we continue down that path.
So we definitely need to change. The

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answer is not to get rid of
capitalism. We don't need to decimate capitalism.

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It's the worst thing we could do, but we need to elevate it.

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Yes, capitalism is a system,
and like any other system, it

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functions depending on the consciousness of the
user, right, and how we approach

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it. What's the purpose for it, and what are the connections between the

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elements of it. When you change
the purpose of any system as behavior changes

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radically, and that's what we're trying
to do, is change the purpose and

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the relationships within capitalism to involvement.
M h. And you just really do

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so beautifully in your book, doctor
Sosilio. But at least the two that

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I've read so far, and the
chapter that you have in this current book,

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the Healing Organization on evolving from Empire
to ministry, from conquering to caring

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for Me really really opened my eyes
to just what you said before about the

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old and the new world, and
it was very compelling. How you how

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when when we when I read that, and I'm going to ask you to

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share some of it now if you
will, You're right. I mean,

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it's so these ideas, these old
ideas that we've accepted from the military and

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conquering and such, are so much
a part of our vernacular today it's really

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hard to separate them. So will
you share for our listeners some of these

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historical hallmarks of empire and conquering that
you do in the book so we can

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get present to what we're what we're
dealing with here. Yeah, so human

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history has been more but with first
of all, masculine energy in men dominating

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every aspect of society, and the
absence of the sort of balancing feminine that

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becomes hypermasculine, that becomes you know, as I said, domination, aggression,

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conquering, winning at all costs,
and so forth. So we've seen

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that in the political realm, of
course, we've seen that with the empires

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that have existed. All empires have
existed essentially to fulfill and serve the ego

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of the emperor right to somebody who
wanted to go from being a king to

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an emperor, wanted to be called
so and so the great right. So

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there's an there's an uninsatiable appetite there
for power and riches that can never really

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be fulfilled. But in the pursuit
of that, there's a countless, untold

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amount of human suffering that has happened. Right, So millions of people get

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killed and lands get conquered, and
the empire spreads, and ultimately the whole

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thing falls apart once the emperor dies
or is killed, and there's no real

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lasting positive impact from that. There
might be a few monuments and buildings or

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whatever, but that's the energy that
has driven so much. And one of

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the interesting stories that I did found
and I happened to be in a part

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of India a few years ago,
I was invited to speak in the state

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of Alissa, and I went to
visit this site where the emperor Ashoka,

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who was literally the greatest emperor in
the history of India and maybe one of

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the greatest dads defined by how we
measure empires, the size and in scale

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and growth of the sort of the
span of where they controlled almost all of

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modern India and beyond. And that's
the place where he fought his final battle

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to conquer the last remaining hold out
kingdom and make it part of his empire,

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and that's where he had his awakening
as he watched as he walked on

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that battlefield the morning after the war
had ended on a hundred thousand of his

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soldiers had died one hundred thousand on
the other side, and millions of people

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were impacted. And as he normally
would have walked in triumph, and on

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that day he saw the blood and
the dead bodies, and some were not

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yet dead and screaming in pain.
And the water, the blood was flowing

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down a hill from this battlefield down
to a river, and that river was

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literally running red with all that blood
in it. And he had this deep

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awakening, said, my God,
what am I doing? Why am I

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causing all this suffering? You know? And he awakened that day and he

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basically committed that he would never cause
any more suffering to any humans or animals

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again, and then he would do
everything he could to prevent that in the

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world. He embraced Buddhism, and
you know, the whole next chapter of

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his life where really he became.
He went from being an empire to being

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a ministry. He took his army
and basically created an army of missionaries,

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and he embraced Buddhism, and then
he sent emissaries all over Asia. That's

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why we have Buddhism in places so
far from India. I mean, they

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originated there and now it's much more
prevalent in East Asia, right in Japan,

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in China and more many other places. So Ashoka was responsible for that.

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He sent his own son and daughter
as missionaries and other places. So

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that's an example of a shift from
an empire mindset to a missionary mindset.

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Right, one is spreading suffering and
feeding the ego, and the other one

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is spreading healing and feeding your soul. That's really I think the parallel that

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I'm trying to draw there is with
the world of business today. We don't

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have that many political empires for the
most part, that's died away, but

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we've replaced that with business empires,
and the same energy drives the growth of

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business empires. There are founders there
whose quest for more power, more control,

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more influence, more impact is never
ending. And in the pursuit of

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that, you know, they pursue
growth for those reasons, and in the

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process they cause enormous suffering in the
companies that they acquire, and how they

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then manage and run and lead those
companies. I use the example of a

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Brazilian company called THREEG Capital, which
over the last couple of decades has had

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a massive impact on the world and
has acquired a whole bunch of companies and

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created these massive, large companies in
the field of beer and fast food and

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a few other areas process foods and
so forth. But the impact that they

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have on the lives of the people
who work there, and those and the

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customers and others ultimately is very negative
and it causes great suffering. So when

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THREEG Capital comes to town, you
know that life is going to get very

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harsh and very difficult and very tough
for all the employees of that company.

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That customers are not going to be
as well served. You know, you're

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going to be creating products that are
not necessarily good for their health and well

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being, etc. So that's one
way the empire building energy behind business grow,

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which is I would say the dominant
dmergy out there causing strumentous suffering.

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But there's another energy behind which the
example that I use there is Barry Wembuler

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and Bob Chapman, who until now
I think is bot about one hundred and

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twelve companies that were dying and struggling
and turned them around. And these were

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small manufacturing businesses in the industrial Midwest
and now increasingly in Europe and other parts

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of the world. And they are
not able to compete, and they're not

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able to be profitable, and he
acquires them and turns them around right through

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a combination of good leadership and management. Were also changing the culture and making

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caring for people the primary element of
these businesses, because he says, we

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measure success by the way we touch
the lives of people, the same people,

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same business, same location. These
businesses are out thriving, and those

408
00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:52.279
people are thriving, and their families
and their children and their communities are all

409
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:56.799
thriving. And so Bob is on
a mission to save in a way,

410
00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:02.000
the future for these towns and for
these people. And I was with him

411
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:06.359
recently and he said he's looking I
said, after out, he said,

412
00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:10.039
I'm looking at another twelve or so
acquisitions this year. And I said,

413
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:11.559
Bob, why do you need You
already have one hundred and eight or more

414
00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:17.200
companies what You're busy enough? Yeah, And you know, why aren't you

415
00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:21.119
enjoying your twenty six grandchildren and spending
more. And he said, I don't

416
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:23.200
know how much time I have left, and on my deathbed, I will

417
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:26.039
not be proud of the machines we
built or the money I made. I'll

418
00:29:26.079 --> 00:29:29.960
be proud of the lives we touch. And before I die, I want

419
00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.119
to touch as many lives as possible. And I said, Bob, you're

420
00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:36.799
not growing a business, You're spreading
a ministry. You know the way a

421
00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:42.240
ministry should be, which is about
spreading healing right and bringing hope to people.

422
00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:47.079
So I think that's the energy that
should motivate us to grow. Bob

423
00:29:47.119 --> 00:29:52.119
feels an obligation to grow, not
because of his own needs, but because

424
00:29:52.359 --> 00:29:55.759
he wants to serve as many people
as he can. And there are people

425
00:29:55.799 --> 00:29:59.480
now who are waiting, you know, for him to show up, right,

426
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:03.079
Because if Bob Chapman comes to town
that meets you have a future,

427
00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:07.000
good things are going to happen.
I want to just celebrate that really quick.

428
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:11.319
Doctor c Sodia to be a person
like Bob Chapman, I share that

429
00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:15.559
idea, that urgency that I want
to touch as many lives positively as I

430
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:18.960
possibly can before I'm dropped into the
ground. And I appreciate that he still

431
00:30:19.000 --> 00:30:23.359
feels that urgency despite what he's already
done. And I hope our listeners are

432
00:30:23.359 --> 00:30:29.160
really getting present to just the possibility
of the magnificence of the human spirit and

433
00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:33.599
what really can be done when our
paradigms are shifted and our mental models are

434
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:38.079
shifted more toward the positive of ministry
and caring instead of empires and conquering.

435
00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:42.319
So a beautiful example in him.
In fact, you have several stories in

436
00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:45.759
your book that we don't have time
to go through all of them, but

437
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:48.119
I wanted for you to share a
few more of them if you would,

438
00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:52.160
Doctor Sodia. One of them that
I really gravitated to was the story of

439
00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:57.160
non Kushori Shoudy and why he is
such a great example of a CEO who

440
00:30:57.240 --> 00:31:02.079
is creating a healing organization. Will
you share a little bit about him and

441
00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:06.279
what he's up to? Sure?
So, he is the founder and CEO

442
00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:11.720
of a company called Jaipur Rugs,
which is a company that produces hand woven

443
00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:17.799
carpets that are made by traditional artisans
who have been practicing this craft for thousands

444
00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:21.279
of years. And in India,
a lot of these things are done.

445
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:23.480
You know it's organized by the cost
system, right, so you're kind of

446
00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:27.880
born into the weaber community and those
are the people who make these carpets.

447
00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:33.200
The unfortunate reality of India is that
there's a deep stigma associated with certain costs,

448
00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:37.880
and some are considered untouchable. And
that happens to be one of them.

449
00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:42.720
And so you can imagine the life
that you have if you're born into

450
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:45.880
one of those families. So imagine
if you're born as a girl into one

451
00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:49.720
of those families. Now that's the
sort of the lowest of the low that

452
00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:56.240
you can achieve and or be born
into in this life. You're born into

453
00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:57.960
an untouchable family and new girl,
which means you will get fed, lost,

454
00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:01.039
and you will get edge at all. If you know at last,

455
00:32:01.279 --> 00:32:06.200
I mean after the boys educated,
most likely you won't get educated. And

456
00:32:06.279 --> 00:32:08.319
at an early age, you know, you will start taking care of your

457
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:14.359
younger siblings and you will start to
cook them clean and then also start when

458
00:32:14.559 --> 00:32:17.160
you're ten years old, probably start
working on the carpets. Right, And

459
00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:21.319
that's your life. And then you
get married off somewhere in your teens to

460
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:27.960
another we were family with your husband
who's probably alcoholic and abusive, and there

461
00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:31.960
you're expected to everything you were doing
already and have children and in fact continue

462
00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:36.759
to make carpets even more intensively.
Right, And so that's the life.

463
00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:40.720
You're illiterate, you're abused by your
in laws, by your husband, and

464
00:32:40.759 --> 00:32:46.440
by the contractors who bring these jobs
to these women in these villages promise them

465
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:50.480
a certain amount of money if they
completed in a certain amount of time.

466
00:32:50.559 --> 00:32:53.200
Typically don't end up paying them that
or paying a fraction of that, and

467
00:32:53.240 --> 00:32:57.920
then abuse them verbally and physically and
s actually in other ways. So that's

468
00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:02.119
kind of the reality their horrific existence. And then the Kishok Shoy came into

469
00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:06.880
this world, and you know,
he said, I want to serve these

470
00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:09.039
people. He said, they are
the innocents. They have never harmed anybody,

471
00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:12.559
that all they've done is take care
of other people and met their needs

472
00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:15.640
and never ask for anything for themselves. And I want to serve them and

473
00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:20.119
I want to make their lives better. And so he started a company,

474
00:33:20.920 --> 00:33:25.400
Japur Drugs, where they seek out
these women and they treat them with respect

475
00:33:25.440 --> 00:33:30.279
and dignity, They pay them much
better, they have much better working environment.

476
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:36.440
They also have a foundation that educates
them, teaches them basic literacy and

477
00:33:36.519 --> 00:33:40.480
math skills and accounting skills, encourages
them to become sort of small entrepreneurs within

478
00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:45.559
the system, so they can then
hire other women and then sort of subcontract

479
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:53.559
to the company so they can become
more prosperous than they were before. And

480
00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:57.480
so I saw an example of this
when I went and visited and met a

481
00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:00.039
woman named Shanti, and that the
story that I told was her story.

482
00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:07.559
And she had five children, and
she was almost reduced to starvation or close

483
00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:09.800
to starvation at times. She has
to sell her jewelry or to buy food

484
00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:14.639
or to pay some of the other
workers that were working with her. And

485
00:34:14.679 --> 00:34:17.559
then she was discovered by Jeffer Ruggs, and her life today is completely turned

486
00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:23.480
around. She has five children.
The oldest is already graduated college, the

487
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:27.400
second is in college, the third
and eleventh one is in tent when a

488
00:34:27.480 --> 00:34:31.880
boy, the youngest boy is in
seventh. This illiterate, penniless woman is

489
00:34:31.880 --> 00:34:36.920
now going to have five children graduate
from college. She has a life of

490
00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:38.679
respect and dignity. When I met
her, you know, she was laughing,

491
00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:42.639
and you know, and she said, if you came some years ago,

492
00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:45.039
I would be sitting on the floor
with my head covered, and I

493
00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:47.239
would not even be able to look
at you. I do. Today she'll

494
00:34:47.239 --> 00:34:51.519
walk up to you and shake your
hands and ask you in English, how

495
00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:54.280
are you? You know, that's
the transformation that's possible. And I asked

496
00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:58.599
her, how do you feel about
mister Geordrey and what he's done? In

497
00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:00.519
fact, he's actually just started.
She said, I don't have the words,

498
00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:05.719
you know. She said to me, he is much more than my

499
00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:08.880
mother and father. To me,
he is God because he gave me life.

500
00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:13.519
I was alive, but I didn't
have a life, and now I

501
00:35:13.559 --> 00:35:15.320
have a life. My children have
a life, and their children will have

502
00:35:15.360 --> 00:35:19.360
a life. Right. So that's
the power. And you multiply that by

503
00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:23.119
forty thousand of these women that are
part of their system. Right, So

504
00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:28.519
the transformation is enormous. And now
they're also extending that to their customers.

505
00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:31.519
You know, they're saying that you
can either go into a store and look

506
00:35:31.559 --> 00:35:36.559
at the cheapest carpet and just buy
it and go home, or you can

507
00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:38.719
buy one of our rugs and there'll
be a barcode on the back and if

508
00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:43.880
you point to your phone at it, you'll get linked to a video of

509
00:35:43.880 --> 00:35:46.960
a family who made that and you
will see the impact that this has had

510
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:50.960
on their lives and their children.
And they said, we're not sending you

511
00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:54.920
a carpet, we are sending you
a family's blessings through this carpet. And

512
00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:59.159
so he said, we're going to
heal our customers and we're going to give

513
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:01.960
them a sort of a sense of
you know, the way that they spend

514
00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:07.039
their money actually makes a difference in
the lives of others, and that way

515
00:36:07.119 --> 00:36:12.639
we can start to spread this idea
of healing throughout. That is so beautiful,

516
00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:17.360
Doctor Cesdia. I'm going to work
on getting reduced to tears here because

517
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:22.119
that was so beautiful. But the
power and the alluring, beautiful power of

518
00:36:22.119 --> 00:36:24.599
that. Who wouldn't want to aspire
for that? So thank you for sharing

519
00:36:24.639 --> 00:36:28.280
that. Let me take us to
our last break here. I'm a last

520
00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:30.239
Cortez, your host. We've been
on the air with doctor Raj Sosodia and

521
00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:34.880
F. W. Olin, Distinguished
Professor of Global Business and Whole Foods Market

522
00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:38.239
Research Scholar in Conscious Capitalism at Babsom
College. He's the co founder and co

523
00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:43.760
chairman of Conscious Capitalism, Inc.
He is the co author of Conscious Capitalism,

524
00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:47.519
Liberating the Heroic Spirit of Business and
Wall Street Journal bestseller Everybody Matters He

525
00:36:47.599 --> 00:36:51.840
judges today from Boston, Massachusetts.
After the break, we're going to talk

526
00:36:51.880 --> 00:36:54.480
about how to become a healing organization
and a healing leader. Stay with us,

527
00:36:54.519 --> 00:37:19.920
we'll be right back. Alise Cortes
is a speaker and engagement and development

528
00:37:20.000 --> 00:37:24.679
catalyst. She designs and delivers professional
development, leadership and engagement workshops and can

529
00:37:24.719 --> 00:37:30.559
bring her expertise to your organization.
She will help ignite meaningful development within your

530
00:37:30.599 --> 00:37:35.760
workforce that will increase employee engagement,
performance and retention. To learn more or

531
00:37:35.800 --> 00:37:39.519
to invite Elise to speak to your
organization, please visit her at www dot

532
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:45.159
Elisecortes dot com. She would welcome
the opportunity to help get your employees working

533
00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:55.480
on purpose. This is working on
Purpose with Elise Cortes. To reach our

534
00:37:55.519 --> 00:38:02.239
program today, send an email to
a lease Alice at a lascortes dot com.

535
00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:13.199
Now back to working on purpose.
Thanks for staying with us, and

536
00:38:13.239 --> 00:38:15.039
welcome back to working on purpose.
If you're just tuning in, my guest

537
00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:19.800
is doctor Raj Sisodia, the co
founder and co chairman of Conscious Capitalism,

538
00:38:19.880 --> 00:38:23.519
Inc. And the author of the
Healing Organization, awakening the conscience of business

539
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:28.760
to help save the world. I'm
your host, Atlis Cortes, so doctor

540
00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:32.599
Socdia. Now that we have helped
our listeners understand the opportunity here and present

541
00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:37.639
some really fantastic examples, the last
thing I want to do is give them

542
00:38:37.719 --> 00:38:42.119
some actionable ways they can really start
to change those their mental models and work

543
00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:45.559
toward this idea of a healing organization. And so I want to talk about

544
00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:51.280
you mentioned three principles that distinguish the
Healing Organization. I think it would be

545
00:38:51.400 --> 00:38:53.599
useful for us to be able to
share those with our listeners. So would

546
00:38:53.599 --> 00:38:59.079
you would you talk about those?
Sure? This one thing I'd like to

547
00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:05.360
say before that know that ultimately what
this is about is liberating certain forces that

548
00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:09.599
already exist within the organization, giving
them permission to manifest. Right, So

549
00:39:09.639 --> 00:39:15.360
I say that the most abundant resource
on this planet is unexpressed human caring.

550
00:39:15.400 --> 00:39:20.360
You know, human beings have a
need to care for themselves, for each

551
00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:25.719
other, for causes, you know, for many things. And our organizations

552
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:30.599
can either amplify or they can diminish
our capacity for caring. In otherwise,

553
00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:34.840
they can become vehicles where we can
express that or places where we need to

554
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:38.800
suppress that. And traditionally it's been
the latter, right, because we've thought

555
00:39:38.800 --> 00:39:42.599
about business as this place where we
put on our mask and armor and go

556
00:39:42.679 --> 00:39:45.400
to battle and fight the competitors and
you know, win the battles and do

557
00:39:45.480 --> 00:39:49.880
all of that. Right, we're
supposed to leave our humanity behind and showing

558
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:53.840
any sign of compassion and caring,
et cetera as seen as weakness that you

559
00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:57.840
can't win in the world. If
you're going to be operating in that,

560
00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:00.519
we have to be ruthless. Right, only the parent survive and doggie doll.

561
00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:06.119
And it's not personally all of that. But in fact, as our

562
00:40:06.159 --> 00:40:08.360
work has all been all about this, that comanies that are built on love

563
00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:12.440
and care actually more and more powerful. If we can bring our full humanity

564
00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:15.599
to work, we will actually have
far more powerful businesses. So there's all

565
00:40:15.639 --> 00:40:21.960
of this unexpressed caring that exists in
every company, all these people with a

566
00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:25.679
tremendous capacity for caring and for doing
things for each other. And then on

567
00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:30.280
the other side, you of all
this silent suffering, you have people who

568
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:34.639
are dealing with extraordinary things every day
of their lives. You know, there

569
00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:37.440
was a thought bubble that we could
make visible above everybody's head about what they're

570
00:40:37.480 --> 00:40:39.760
really worried about and thinking about it. You know, it would break your

571
00:40:39.800 --> 00:40:44.280
heart when you realize what your colleagues
are dealing with. And yet for the

572
00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:46.519
most part, people are silent and
they're just doing their work right, They're

573
00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:52.519
stoic and they're heroic, and at
the same time it is eating away at

574
00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:55.559
them and ultimately impacting their health and
shortly shortening their lives and so forth.

575
00:40:55.679 --> 00:40:59.440
So if we can allow these two
things to come out of the corporate closet,

576
00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:02.880
that a way, the unexpressed caring
and the silent suffering. If we

577
00:41:02.920 --> 00:41:07.719
create a culture where people are able
to express, you know, what they're

578
00:41:07.719 --> 00:41:10.920
dealing with and what they need,
and people are also encouraged and able to

579
00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:15.239
help each other, right, I
think that's going to go a long way,

580
00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:17.679
and that's something that has to be
modeled at the top. Leaders have

581
00:41:17.719 --> 00:41:22.119
to really model that. There's a
Buddhist principle that we talk about when we

582
00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:27.079
write about Baston Bakery. Now we're
Bernie Glassman, you know, talked about

583
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:31.000
bearing witness right that we have to
bear witness to the suffering that's out there.

584
00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:36.199
We have to be able to see
what our people are struggling with within

585
00:41:36.239 --> 00:41:39.920
the company. And once you bear
witness and then loving action will naturally arise

586
00:41:39.960 --> 00:41:43.159
from that. So I think we
need to create a culture in which that

587
00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:46.599
happens, where we surface and then
allow people to meet each other's needs.

588
00:41:46.599 --> 00:41:50.800
You know, we have we have
We are here to care for each other

589
00:41:51.519 --> 00:41:53.400
right and business is a way for
us to do that at scale, and

590
00:41:53.480 --> 00:41:57.360
we can do that for our customers, but we can also do that internally.

591
00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:02.920
I remember one of the experiences I
have was this vision of these women

592
00:42:02.920 --> 00:42:07.719
from Indiana known as much She's the
Hugging Saint, but of her she goes

593
00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:12.480
around the world and basically hugs people, and people will stand in line for

594
00:42:12.519 --> 00:42:15.400
eight hours in the hot sun,
just waiting for a hug, and she

595
00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:19.760
doesn't even say anything, but they
feel this surge of unconditional love from her,

596
00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:22.280
and many of them walk away in
tears. And the message that I

597
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:25.000
got, I got an image of
all these people standing and waiting for this

598
00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:29.880
hug, and the message I got
was all these people could be hugging each

599
00:42:29.920 --> 00:42:32.920
other. They have, they have
what they're looking for. You don't need

600
00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:37.199
to go to another place and find
it in some other person. And that's

601
00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:39.239
what we're all here to do.
So I think that's a fundamental principle,

602
00:42:39.800 --> 00:42:45.000
right, and beyond that in the
book, we talk about various other practices

603
00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:47.079
that we've kind of distilled from the
twenty five stories. You know that we

604
00:42:47.159 --> 00:42:51.559
have, first of all, that
we assume as a leader of the moral

605
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:57.119
responsibility to prevent and alleviate unlessay suffering, find out what is causing unlessay suffering.

606
00:42:57.280 --> 00:43:01.480
There's rules and practices that we have, right and there are many examples

607
00:43:01.480 --> 00:43:05.800
of each of these that we talk
about in our stories. If we just

608
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:09.199
have a hierarchical way of being where
people are abusing the people below them,

609
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:15.639
if are we in some ways enabling
abuse, are we impact settling for neutrality

610
00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:17.119
when we should be looking to have
a positive impact, we're just looking to

611
00:43:17.159 --> 00:43:21.920
do less harm or actually actively looking
to do more good, whether it comes

612
00:43:21.920 --> 00:43:25.159
to the environment or when it comes
to communities and so forth. I think

613
00:43:25.159 --> 00:43:30.800
another element here is to recognize that
employees, in many ways are the first

614
00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:34.119
stakeholder that we have to All stakeholders
matter, obviously, and the well being

615
00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:37.119
of everybody is important, but we
have to start healing begins at home,

616
00:43:37.159 --> 00:43:40.280
and home is really the company itself
and the employees. And there are a

617
00:43:40.280 --> 00:43:45.360
lot of companies that are noble or
trying to or saying that they're doing noble

618
00:43:45.400 --> 00:43:49.000
things in the world with their purpose, et cetera. But there are places

619
00:43:49.000 --> 00:43:52.760
of suffering for their own employees,
and that's not acceptable. So we really

620
00:43:52.760 --> 00:43:55.679
have to start at home right and
treat the well being of our people as

621
00:43:55.719 --> 00:44:01.239
inherently important. And then beyond that, they're familiesildren, their parents, even

622
00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:07.320
all of their own stakeholders are impacted
by that. And we look for creative

623
00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:10.800
opportunities to bring joy, play and
love to the workplace. You know.

624
00:44:10.840 --> 00:44:16.599
Back vid stories in the book is
when Menlo Innovations, which aspires to create

625
00:44:16.639 --> 00:44:22.079
a workplace of joy. And they
had a woman who was ending her maternity

626
00:44:22.159 --> 00:44:25.159
leave but called in to say,
my daycare arrangement fell apart and I can't

627
00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:29.000
come in. And the CEO said
to her, well, just bring the

628
00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:31.760
baby, and she said, well, what do you mean how world He

629
00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:34.920
said, doesn't matter, we'll figure
it out. You know, we are

630
00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:37.400
all of our children. We know
what to do. So she did and

631
00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:39.800
now we fast forward ten years and
they've had about twenty six babies in that

632
00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:45.199
office over the years. Has just
become a practice and it actually spreads more

633
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:49.840
joy and reduces stress and so forth. And so there's all these opportunities,

634
00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:52.599
you know, than when we actually
start to behave and think in a more

635
00:44:52.679 --> 00:44:58.639
human way rather than always trying to
be professional, incorporate and whatever. Right,

636
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:02.360
and then you have to invest in
healing as well. You have to

637
00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:07.079
look at one are the needs that
people have, Make things available to them

638
00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:10.599
that are going to help them physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually healed all

639
00:45:10.679 --> 00:45:15.079
kinds of things, and and going
beyond what we typically offer through our wellness

640
00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:19.320
programs and employee assistance programs and so
forth, there's a lot more that we

641
00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:23.480
could be doing. Agreed, Agreed. It's so easy to listen to doctor

642
00:45:23.480 --> 00:45:28.400
Sodia. I sort of feel like
I'm in this melodic sort of dance when

643
00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:31.119
you speak. It's just it's beautiful
to hear you talk and share from your

644
00:45:31.400 --> 00:45:35.760
heart and your soul. We're almost
at a time, but I do want

645
00:45:35.800 --> 00:45:37.599
to give you an opportunity, if
you would, just to say you've got

646
00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:43.679
a whole chapter dedicated to helping people
become healing leaders themselves. Can you just

647
00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:46.079
and you've got ten of those elements
in that chapter, can you maybe just

648
00:45:46.239 --> 00:45:53.239
talk about one or two of them? Yeah. I mean this kind of

649
00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:57.920
became personal for me because of the
experience that I had writing the book.

650
00:45:57.960 --> 00:46:01.199
You know, where I was steam
ahead and I had all my examples and

651
00:46:01.239 --> 00:46:05.440
stories and I was just going to
turn it out right. And I was

652
00:46:05.480 --> 00:46:09.760
told by three people that if you're
writing a book about healing, you need

653
00:46:09.800 --> 00:46:15.480
to actually slow down, and you
need to look inward, and you need

654
00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:22.480
to look at what needs to heal
within you and work on yourself and then

655
00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:28.480
try to write this book. And
I said, I don't have time.

656
00:46:28.519 --> 00:46:30.599
I've got a book deadline. I
said, no, book deadlines can be

657
00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:32.679
moved. So I actually did delay
the book by five months and experienced a

658
00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:37.440
number of things and got started on
that journey. I mean, I guess

659
00:46:37.440 --> 00:46:38.880
we're all on that journey anyway,
but for me, it was an intensive

660
00:46:38.920 --> 00:46:44.280
period of exploring and looking at what
needs healing and also in know order to

661
00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:47.199
realize when you go through that is
that which is deeply personal is also completely

662
00:46:47.320 --> 00:46:53.559
universal. There are insights that come
out of that which are not just specific

663
00:46:53.599 --> 00:46:58.960
to you, but actually relevant in
the broader way. So I would say

664
00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:01.599
it starts there. To be a
healing leader, you first have to turn

665
00:47:01.599 --> 00:47:07.639
the lens inward and look at your
own life and your own traumas that you

666
00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:14.159
may have experienced, your own blind
spots, various experiences you may have had

667
00:47:14.159 --> 00:47:16.840
with your parents or in childhood or
whatever it might be, and learn how

668
00:47:16.880 --> 00:47:21.639
you can heal them go from those, because if you don't, then you're

669
00:47:21.639 --> 00:47:24.480
going to actually inflict that same kind
of suffering on others. You know,

670
00:47:24.519 --> 00:47:28.559
they say hurt people, hurt people, don't. Yes, Yes, I

671
00:47:28.639 --> 00:47:34.360
heard the Va Eager who was a
Holocaust survivor from how should say, we

672
00:47:34.400 --> 00:47:37.639
are victims of victims, all right? And she said the greatest Nazi is

673
00:47:37.639 --> 00:47:43.519
inside us. We are trmentoors,
you know, So all of that,

674
00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:46.000
there's just a tremendous need for that. I would say, the vast majority

675
00:47:46.000 --> 00:47:51.800
of people walking around with some level
of PTSD like centimes, So it has

676
00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:55.960
to start there, right, And
then once we do that tapping into that.

677
00:47:57.079 --> 00:48:00.559
We have examples of that in the
book. Right. Eileen Fisher why

678
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:02.159
did she start a company? Says
I was an uncomfortable human being. So

679
00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:07.000
I wanted to make clothes that make
people comfortable. You know. Danny Meyer

680
00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:12.360
struggled with his own family and the
sort of difficult environment in where she grew

681
00:48:12.400 --> 00:48:15.320
up, and so he wanted to
create a family environment at the workplace,

682
00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:19.519
a healthy family system rather than the
unhealthy family system that he came with.

683
00:48:20.360 --> 00:48:23.079
Daniel Lebetsky of kind, you know, his father again a Holocaust survivor,

684
00:48:23.119 --> 00:48:27.960
and he was inspired by him in
terms of how he chose to live his

685
00:48:28.039 --> 00:48:30.519
life and so forth. So I
think we can alchemize our own suffering and

686
00:48:30.559 --> 00:48:37.320
then from that extract pearls wisdom that
we can then bring to that. So

687
00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:39.599
the other things we talk about,
you know, you have to be true

688
00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:43.519
to yourself. You have to know
who you are, understand yourself right,

689
00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:47.199
yes, and doctor so sodium,
I'm so sorry to interrupt you. I

690
00:48:47.239 --> 00:48:52.800
wish we had more time, but
we were out of time. Last words

691
00:48:52.800 --> 00:48:58.199
and say ten seconds that you'd like
to share. I do believe at the

692
00:48:58.280 --> 00:49:00.599
end of this proces is what I
thought was at idea is actually a fundamental

693
00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:05.400
belief that business is about healing.
You know, this is not a sort

694
00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:08.320
of aberration of thought that we are
put here to take care of each other,

695
00:49:08.320 --> 00:49:12.679
that inner free society. Businesses are
meant to serve us and meet our

696
00:49:12.679 --> 00:49:15.719
needs. And if you do that
in the right way, we will actually

697
00:49:15.800 --> 00:49:19.079
be instruments of healing. We will
do suffering, elevate joy, and promote

698
00:49:19.079 --> 00:49:22.880
healthy God. But if you make
it all about serving ourselves and meeting our

699
00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:25.679
needs and using other people, then
we will create suffering. So business can

700
00:49:25.719 --> 00:49:29.880
be a place of healing for everybody
who works there. It can be a

701
00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:34.079
source of healing for everyone. We
serve our customers and our communities, and

702
00:49:34.119 --> 00:49:37.480
we can be a force for healing
in society. We can show people,

703
00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:43.960
governments, other entities how we work
together despite our differences, when we have

704
00:49:44.119 --> 00:49:49.880
shared values and shared workers and a
deep commitment to our own humanity. Thank

705
00:49:49.880 --> 00:49:53.159
you, doctor Sosdia for a beautiful, beautiful share with us on the show

706
00:49:53.159 --> 00:49:57.119
today. Thank you so much for
being my guest listeners. If you want

707
00:49:57.159 --> 00:50:00.800
to find out more about doctor so
Sodia his various books, the easiest way

708
00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:05.400
to find him as his own personal
website. It's Rajsosodia dot com. R

709
00:50:05.519 --> 00:50:09.400
A J s I s O d
I A RAJ sosodia dot com. Thanks

710
00:50:09.440 --> 00:50:16.719
for being with us, and we'll
see you next week. We hope you've

711
00:50:16.800 --> 00:50:21.840
enjoyed this week's program. Be sure
to tune in to Working on Purpose,

712
00:50:22.159 --> 00:50:27.920
featuring your host Alis Cortes, each
week on the Voice America Empowerment Channel.

713
00:50:28.079 --> 00:50:30.320
This week, find your life's purpose
at work