Unconscious Bias vs Consciously Dancing with Life

WEBVTT

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortes. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working

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on purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortes. Welcome back to

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the Working on Purpose. So thanks
for tuning in again this week. I'm

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your host, Elise Cortes, joining
the live from Dallas, which is home

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base for me. If you've been
tuning in for a while, you know

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this program is all about helping people
create more meaningful and purposeful lives and equipping

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leaders, insight organizations to cultivate meaning
and purpose elicit's passion inspired contribution, innovation,

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and persevering performance. I talk with
my guests to draw on their expertise

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and share my own experience consulting,
speaking and developing workforces across the globe.

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Each week. In these conversations,
I hope you walk away with something you

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can immediately use in your life or
work. And if I can do anything

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to help you along your journey.
Go to my website at at leastcoretes dot

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com and use the contact me future
to message me. Let's open a conversation

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and explore what's going on for you
and how I might be able to help.

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Whether you want to learn more about
how to develop purpose inspired leadership and

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meaning infuse culture in your organization to
lisit your team's best, You want to

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see about joining a catch fire online
community to stoke your own passion inspiration or

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purpose discovery, or you'd like me
to speak for your company or conference,

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but in your ate. I'm glad
we're connected and thanks for listening. Now

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onto this week's program with us today
is doctor James Pogue, the CEO of

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James Pogue Enterprises. Leadership and training
are at the core of who doctor Pogue

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is and align with this ongoing commandment
to equip executives and professionals with the thought

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leadership to improve, communicate, and
manage effectively. Unconscious bias, diversity and

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inclusion, multi generational leadership are right
now issues he addresses in his work.

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We'll be talking about the work he
does with unconn just bias in organizations.

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Here's some key elements of his life
story that have helped shape who he is

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today, and learn how his love
and practice of dance and martial arts inform

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how he does his work. He's
sitting right next to me in my Dallas

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studio where we're also conducting Facebook live
stream, Doctor Pogue. Welcome to working

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on Purpose. I'm glad to be
here. You have a very pleasant speaking

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for us. It's very soothing.
This you never knew. Eh. Yes,

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you should do this, Marrow,
I should do this Mary Radio show

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next week. I'll be right here. First, let's just share with our

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listeners how I've found you just really
quick. We were both speaking at a

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conference in San Antonio for a Cornerstone
credit and you were minding your own business

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after having already spoken and giving a
great performance. I heard you in the

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audience, knew I was speaking the
next day and wanted to meet you.

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So what do I do? Make
a bee line for you just before lunch

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costs you at the buffet line and
say hi, doctor Pogue, I'm at

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least Cortes, to which you respond, uh okay, And so started my

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relationship with Hurricane Quartets well, and
so thank you for being willing to be

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accosted, and then of course anybody
to launch because I knew I wanted to

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have you on the show and share
with my listeners. So here we are,

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and there's a few things I want
to get out of you on this,

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So we have you got to talk
fast, Okay, I'm ready.

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Okay. So we're also Facebook livestream. We're ready to hear from from listeners

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that way, as well as w
focy chat room. Drill us with whatever

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you have for him. This guy, he can handle it. So the

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first thing I want to talk about
is unconscious bias. And this is something

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that you know very well and you
consult organizations with. I think it's first

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for us. It's important for us
first to define it. So what do

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you mean by unconscious bias? So, unconscious bias is this piece of us

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that works in the background. There's
mounds of research to talk about the massive

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amounts of information our brains receive at
any given point in time about people,

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places, or things. But consciously
we don't have the capacity to calculate it

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all make decisions, so our brain
creates shortcuts, and these shortcuts are the

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unconscious bias. And in many ways
this is what keeps us alive. It

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keeps us making good decisions and aligns
us with certain kinds of ways of behaving.

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But sometimes if some things have happened
in our backgrounds that don't have we

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haven't been exposed to something, or
we haven't seen something, then our unconscious

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bias can create a blockage or a
hurdle from that or towards things that might

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not be necessarily positive for us.
So we have to be continually cautious about

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the biases that we have and do
our best to surround ourselves with people that

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can bring those unconscious biases to the
conscious so then we can do something about

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them. Again, unconscious biases,
we all have them, There's no way

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around it. It's part of being
human. So that's okay. The challenge,

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however, is to continue to push
ourselves to disclose or uncover or expose

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these unconscious biases so that we can
make new friends, new connections, taste

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new food, new cultures, and
do so in a way that exposes our

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learning and makes us better people.
Awesome way to start. So the first

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thing I want to say is doesn't
that sound so much better at listeners than

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something that's normally we think of unconscious
biases, this horrible, horrible, awful

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thing that we never want to commit. So right away the definition opens something

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for us. Yeah, I think
it's really important in my work that I

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talk about it from the perspective of
everybody has it, and most people are

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good people. Most people are really
good people. They want to do the

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right thing most of the time.
And every now and again you got some

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crazy person that's a sociopath, and
those are kind of easy to spot,

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but more often than not, most
people want to do the right thing and

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we all have these unconscious biases that
we have to navigate through. So when

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I work with people, when I
talk with people, I like to start

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off with this idea that you're a
good person and I'm a good person.

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So let's figure out how we can
work together. Okay, So for those

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of us who don't know what you
know about this space, and that would

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be the vast majority of us,
help us understand how it is that we

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employ unconscious bias. What does it
look like? How will we know we're

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actually doing this? Yeah, so
a lot of times when we are unconscious

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bias kind of comes up when we
say something like I don't know something about

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them. I just I just like
them, or I don't know, just

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kind of rubs me the wrong way, and those that can be the beginning

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of what might be an unconscious bias. Right, somebody walks in for a

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job interview and you're like, you
know what, he just feels good to

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me. What does that mean?
And then if you start to unpack that,

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it could be that he looks or
feels like somebody that you had a

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great experience with when you were fifteen
or fifty, or could be the reverse

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where this person looks and feels like
someone who doesn't. And so our unconscious

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biases can be a variety of types. There's five or so that really makes

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sense in the workplace that I talk
about, and one of them, for

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example, might be a halo bias
where I see somebody doing a good thing,

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so therefore I think they're a good
person. Yeah. Interesting when the

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truth is I don't know that person, I don't know anything about them,

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but just exactly, they just robbed
the bank, but on the way out

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they open the door for someone,
and now I saw was the backside of

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that. Now they're a great person, because in my mind, opening up

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a door for someone makes you a
good person. Right, And there's also

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these perceptive biases are a sensory biases
where I smell something or I see something,

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or I hear something that reminds me
subconsciously of something positive. And a

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lot of us who have sold houses
or bought houses have used this. Right,

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you cook an apple pie, you
leave it out for people to smell

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the wonder of that, and they
think, oh, this must be a

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great home. Guilty as charged,
Yes, a great place to raise kids

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and such. But you don't know
these people. This could be crazy people.

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So we use these kinds of biases
sometimes as strategies for other people or

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on other people, but oftentimes those
biases are underneath and we have to be

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very cautious about what it is we're
trying to do, especially when the decisions

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that we make impact others' lives significantly. Okay, so now we have to

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talk about Now that we have a
better understanding of just what is this thing

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called unconscious bias? Now I want
to talk about what are some of the

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common problems associated with unconscious bias,
especially in the workplace. So what can

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happen is we make if we're supervisors, for example, maybe we make hiring

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decisions that can be problematic. We
hire somebody that we thought was a great

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fit. However we find out that
they may not have the right qualifications,

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they may not be ready for the
rigor of the position. But they felt

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right, they seemed right, I
felt a connection with them, or the

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reverse, I felt an aversion to
someone for whatever the reason might be.

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But they're unbelievably qualified. Every now
and again, I'll talk to a CEO

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or a hiring manager, and when
we start to peel back the onion layers

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of unconscious bias, they realize at
times that they have precluded someone from rising

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up through the ranks simply because they
had this bias about them. And say,

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for example, from a gender perspective, they might assume that she is

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she just had a baby or something
like that, and of course she wants

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us at home with their kids.
So i'm i'm, i'm. I didn't

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invite her to the after work happy
hours to meet and greet with the other

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networking sessions with other folks, when
what you've really done is robbed her from

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the opportunity to make a decision on
her own. And so, as I

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mentioned, this was done for a
good reason. In this person's mind,

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good intentions, but you precluded somebody
from growing and you took a decision from

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them that was their own. Well, and I think you when I talked

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about this when we had lunch.
I had Ron Price on my show several

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months back, and he writes about
influence, the art of cultivating influence to

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become a better leader. And in
his book he has a story just about

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that, about how a woman's trying
to rise up in her career and she's

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not getting promoted, but those around
her men are. It's exactly that scenario

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where she's a mom and there's an
assumption that she's more time at home.

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Yes, so she's being passed over. Well intended. Now here's the great

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opportunity from my vantage point is how
do we help And I'd love for you

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to weigh in on, is how
do we help people start to languish and

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help others reveal this unconscious bias.
Did you know boss, that you passed

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me over three times for this promotion? Why would that be? How can

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we do that for someone? One
of the easy ways to do that is

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in this case, for example,
is diversity in your hiring practices. When

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you have a bunch of different people
from different backgrounds making decisions and weighing in

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on decisions. Somebody is going to
ask the question that for them is very

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conscious, but for you is unconscious. Why aren't we going to hire her?

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Why aren't we going to hire him? What about that person makes them

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feel good to you? Describe that, play that out. It's also part

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of hr practices when people start to
dig into the practices and questions and phrases

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that are being used. What do
you mean by that? Talk to us

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a little bit more about that,
and so on occasion, I'll sit on

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a executive search committee as part as
kind of as a thinker in the background

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and ask them questions about the question
that they asked. Why did you ask

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that question? And it helps them
to understand when you're allowed to poke each

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other, You're allowed to ask someone
the question about why they were doing that,

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and it should be okay for them
to say, well, well,

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I don't know. That's a good
point. I need to think more about

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that, because if at the end
of the day, we're trying to make

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great decisions for organizations, for the
people that surround us, for the teams

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that we're trying to build, then
we should be able to push each other

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and make each other feel quite frankly, the right kind of uncomfortable. Well,

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I like that, the right kind
of uncomfortable. Let's scrab Lind's question

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here from W fourcy's chat room.
She is asking how to explain a gut

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feeling. You may have covered that
before, but let's make sure she gets

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her question answered. Sure, So, a gut feeling, it could be,

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so I will make an assumption about
what you're saying, so I hopefully

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I get this right. A gut
feeling is like, hey, something about

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this person makes me feel good,
makes me feel bad, or maybe not

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even the person, but a place
or an opportunity. And what I do,

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and what I recommend to people is
to try to explain why you think

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that gut feeling is there. And
when I can't explain it myself, I

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go to people who know me well
and I ask them to help me explain

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my thinking for me. And on
occasion I have had good friends tell me

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that you know you think this way
because you remember you had this experience ten

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years ago or five years ago.
It might be connected to this boss that

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you used to have. It might
be connected to this family member that you

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really love and respect. So when
you have surrounded yourself what might be your

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personal advisory board, which I recommend
that many of us, all of us

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should try to get. They can
help you to make decisions that reveal what

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might be an unconscious bias for you. Brilliant. That is so brilliant.

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Oh my gosh. Okay, So
let's play this out a little bit more

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deeply. Back in the workplace again, we talked about how unconscious bias can

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can limit how people get promoted.
It can also impact how people get put

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on projects. Yes, who gets
fired, Yes, all those kind of

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things. So say a bit more
about some of their ramifications of this in

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the workplace. Yeah, and so
for those of you that may have had

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an opportunity to see, there's the
McKenzie study of women in the workplace and

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it talks about how at the entry
level that it's about fifty to fifty men

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and women. I mean, women
have been out performing men in college for

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quite some time now, right,
So it's not like there's a gap in

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talent. What there is is a
problem in the pipeline. There's a pipeline

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issue. So round about the first
second promotion. Why is it that women

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go from being fifty to fifty or
even fifty one forty nine to sixty forty,

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and then when you get to the
CEO level, it's dramatically different.

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At the board level, it's dramatically
different. Why is this happening? And

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so some of the answers rest in
unconscious bias. They rest in the fact

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that when women go through or when
women are being hired being looked at as

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potential peers and colleagues, some of
us as leaders can't see them that way.

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Yet there's something about their background,
their connection to professional women, that

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suggest that they may not be ready, they may not have this skill set,

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that they have children that they're going
to raise, that they're going to

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want to go away during their child's
bearing years to go and do this other

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thing, all to the kinds of
questions, and nobody asks men, you

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know, I may not be able
to give birth to a child, but

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I ought to be able to take
time off to take care of mine,

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and nobody asks me this. Nobody
asks men the same kinds of questions.

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And then if we throw another lens
in there around ethnicity, around ability and

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disability, around age, all of
these things start to create this sort of

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complicated gulage of the biases that we
have and what do we think of people

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that are on the other side of
that bias. So again, ways to

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navigate this are to surround ourselves with
a diversity of people who can question our

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thinking in respectful and meaningful ways.
And on the way to learning to question

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respectfully for some of my younger friends
or even some of my older friends,

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we have to give grace and forgiveness. When somebody asked you a question.

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It might be worded not the best, but the intention was good and just

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beautiful. I did want to have
just a little bit of commentary on how

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your work with unconscious bias is to
share with your work with diversity and inclusion,

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and you just started that. And
by the way, one of my

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I hate to single out of population, but one of my favorite populations to

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hold up and empower is the neurodiverse
population. And I do have some clients

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that work in that space. But
how do you blend unconscious biased work with

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diversity and inclusion? Sure? So, if I back up diversity and inclusion

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or diversity is is really just this
idea of what are all the different facets

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of who you are? Of who
I am, and there's some easy things

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short, tall man, woman,
but there's also the intellectual diversity to your

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point, the abilities and disabilities that
it might be seen or unseen. But

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what I try to share with people
on the diversity side, there's probably seven

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or eight that without these pieces of
how you white describe yourself, you would

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be someone completely different. If I
take out the idea, for example,

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that I am a male, If
I take that out of my ability to

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describe myself, it's very impactful.
If I take out the fact that I

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happen to be African American that if
I take that out of my ability to

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describe myself, that can be a
huge issue. If I take out the

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fact that I was raised in Colorado, not quite as impactful. So these

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five, six, seven, eight
of ethnicity, gender, religion, ability,

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disability, sexuality, and frankly politics
and we kind of leave this one

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out. Sometimes these are critical pieces
for many of us that speak to who

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I am. This is our diversity, the full range of human difference.

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Inclusion then is how we use that, for example, in a business sense

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to increase business value, or if
you're in your places of worship, how

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do you make the worship experience more
valuable. How do you make your team

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more valuable? Your soccer team or
your bowling team, whatever it might be,

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your focus group, your project engineering
team. How do you do this?

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You do it by including folks and
utilizing the diversity they bring to the

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table. So diversity is a full
range of human difference. Inclusion is how

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we bring that together so that we
can create more value. There's this phrase

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that lots of people have heard,
and so I'll use it here that diversity

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is who you asked to the party. Inclusion is being asked to dance.

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The next piece I try to put
in place is the bias. Bias is

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who planned the party and why they
planned it. Are we doing karaoke or

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are we doing a DJ? And
the person made that decision might be making

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because well in the past, weaseh, we've always had a DJ, or

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that's what I like, That's what
I like, right. So these pieces

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all work together, and depending on
where you are and where the organization is

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in their diversity inclusion bias journey,
you start your study or your work there

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and then you move forward. Awesome, that was so much in a short

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amount of time. So I'm glad
you did that, because now we're out

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of time. We've got to go
to a quick break. Quick break,

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You're ready, Okay, I'm your
host, Alice Cortez. We're on the

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air with doctor James Pogue, an
expert in multi generational leadership, unconscious bias

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in the workplace, where he provides
consultative expertise, keynotes, and executive coaching.

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You joined today from my Dallas studio
office right here next to me,

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where we're conducting a Facebook live stream
as well. We've been talking about unconscious

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bias in the workplace. After the
reik, we're going to get into some

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key elements of his life story that
make him aggressively grateful. Stay with us,

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We'll be right back. Alis Cortes
is a speaker and engagement and development

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catalyst. She designs and delivers professional
development, leadership and engagement workshops and can

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bring her expertise to your organization.
She will help ignite meaningful development within your

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workforce that will increase employee engagement,
performance and retention. To learn more or

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00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:48.039
to invite Elise to speak to your
organization, please visit her at www dot

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Elisecortes dot com. She would welcome
the opportunity to help get your employees working

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on purpose. This is working on
Purpose with Elise Cortes. To reach our

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program today, send an email to
a lease Ali at a Lascortes dot com.

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Now back to working on purpose.
Well, thanks for staying with us

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and welcome back to working on purpose
if you're just joining us. My guest

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is doctor James Pogue, CEO of
James Pogue Enterprises. Leadership and training are

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at the core of who doctor Pogue
is and align with this ongoing commitment to

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equip executives and professionals with the thought
leadership to improve, communicate, and manage

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effectively. Unconscious biased diversity and inclusion, multi generational leadership are the right now

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issues he addresses in his work.
I'm your host, Elise Cortes. So,

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Doctor Pogue. One of the things
that I loved about our conversation over

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lunch is I got to hear some
of your amazing life story and I am

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I am a identity researcher and a
meaning researcher. So for me, I

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could unpack that all day long.
But I want to invite you to share

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with our listeners some of the key
things that you think really make you who

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you are. And if you don't
mind starting out by telling us a little

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bit about you told me that you
were a music major in college, but

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you came to realize something at that
time. Yes. Yes, And some

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of my friends from college are listening
and watching, and so this may be

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the first time some of them have
heard this. But I went to college

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originally to be a music major.
I was good in high school, and

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you know, I was all stay
caliber, So I was solid. And

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I went to Gramling State University to
be in the band, which is a

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huge deal there and Grahama State University
world tame is tiger Marching band Boom,

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00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:41.680
and so I was so excited to
be in the band. I wanted to

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play for the Boston Philharmonic or the
Boston Pops of the New York phil Harmonic.

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This was my goal. I wanted
to play that music that's in the

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back of cartoons, and I was
really excited about that. So I go

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to Grahm and I'm in the band, and I'm working hard, and I'm

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learning how to do all of these
things, to dance and play and be

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an entertainer and be a performer getting
a bit out of my show. And

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I remember coming in as a sophomore, and I knew that I knew how

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to play, I knew that I
knew how to dance. I knew that

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I knew how to perform. And
I came around the corner and the seniors

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were practicing, and I was like, and I played the susophone at the

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time, the tuba, and these
guys were playing and practice. I'm like,

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man, they're unbelievable. I'm not
that good. I'm never gonna be

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that good. And I had to
I had a this moment of realization,

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like I got to find something else
to do, because it's not it's not

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that I mean they're they're gifted and
wonderful people. They're gonna help me,

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and but I don't think I am
good enough to accomplish the goal and the

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dream that I had. So I
had to reassess and it was it was

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a moment for me where I was
like, I don't know. But luckily

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I love science and I love math, and so I said, well,

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I'm just gonna find something where I
can float to and it'll be easier for

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me. And so I switched to
biopre med And it was a great decision

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for me because Frankly, every class
I took in the sciences was easier and

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more fulfilling. Once I made this
decision about what was a good fit for

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me and realized that I had reached
perhaps the zenith of my talent in that

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way, and I could find happiness
in music and performing and passion for all

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of the travel that we were doing
and do so in a way that was

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satisfying. That and I could lead
and learn how to lead really in the

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band and where I was a drum
major there for a year and be happy.

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And happiness started to take a take
a root in my spirit that you

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know, I deserve to be happy. Maybe you know, I don't think

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I would have phrased it that way, but it was there for me.

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Wow, beautiful. And then from
there, if you would, I mean,

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I just think that that start to
your story is just so amazing.

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You said, Actually you realize those
guys were not musicians, they were magicians.

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Yes, And so from there unfold
verse a few of the key things,

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things that happen along the way that
have made you who you are.

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Yeah. So so I went into
BIOPREMD and I was like, Okay,

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I can do this, and I
think that being a leader. I was

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a leader in the band, and
I want to be a leader in my

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student community. So I pledge a
fraternity cap offhae Pai, and I became

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a member of that fraternity. I
was the president of the fraternity for a

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year, and then subsequent to that, there is this opportunity to become president

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of the Student Government Association. So
I said, yeah, I'm all in,

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I'm going to do that. I
want to lead. I want to

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I'll follow until I can lead,
but this is an opportunity for me.

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So I run for student government president. I'm working my butt off, I'm

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doing all the things that I can
do to sort of grow and become a

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leader. And I lose by ten
votes, and I am crushed. I

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am so crushed because by this time
I hadn't really quote unquote lost anything before.

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And so I went to the Dinas
students and I'm in his office and

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I'm asking him like, what am
I going to do? You know?

359
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And I have this sort of moment
of pause and he asks me, well,

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this biopre med thing. You want
to be a surgeon? Yeah?

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I do, Well would you do
that for free? Ah? Yes?

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And I was like, I gotta
think about that. You know. I

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love science and I love the idea
of helping people. And as a surgeon,

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maybe I can help one or two, maybe three people at a time.

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I don't know if it depends how
good you are, how quick you

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are, but I think there's a
compensation factor that is in there for me

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that I think that I would deserve
or want. And so I began to

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rethink it. And then I went
back to his office maybe YE don't know,

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a week or ten days later,
and I said, no, I

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would not be a surgeon for free, but I would do your job for

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free. I love working at universities. I love teaching, I love learning,

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I love young people. I love
being around ideas. This idea of

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getting paid to think to give you
my ideas, Yeah, that's what I

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want to do. And he was
kind enough and strong enough and good enough

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as a human to help me reorganize
the next steps in my academic life,

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to point me in the direction of
becoming a president of a university, which

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was my next goal. What I
appreciated about that story so much is that

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along the way, you were a
very thoughtful person, You were inquisitive,

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you were so present in the moment, and then you found people along the

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way who poured into you, who
could hold a mirror up to you and

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help you sort of see who you
are. Yeah, it's phenomenal. Yeah,

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the beauty of that, I think
that oftentimes people have that. There's

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sometimes when it happened for me and
I was unwilling to look in the mirror,

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00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:41.119
but at this point in time,
I was, And so I have

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to remember that in all of the
great things that happened to me, there

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are also times when there were pauses
in my life. One of my mentors

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says that I have or have had
this proclivity to pause, and I have

388
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to be cautious about that because,
as another friend once said to me,

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the world needs to hear your voice, James, you have to say something.

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And they're both correct, and so
I continue to try to push myself

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to do these things. So off
I go to grad school, to University

392
00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:17.000
of Arizona, and that's also where
I got involved with martial arts, and

393
00:26:17.039 --> 00:26:22.759
that became a huge part of my
life. So my existence in graduate school

394
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:25.720
was all about my family was there. My mother was there, and so

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00:26:25.799 --> 00:26:29.319
I was getting reconnected with her and
my sister and my brother who also lived

396
00:26:29.319 --> 00:26:33.319
there. I spent most of my
time in class, nerding out at coffee

397
00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:37.640
shops or hanging out with my friend
John Lopez. He and I went through

398
00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:42.640
the grad program together and then doing
martial arts five six, seven, eight

399
00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:47.160
hours a day, working out,
teaching, fighting, punching, kick and

400
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getting punched in the face, kicking
other people in the face in love.

401
00:26:51.799 --> 00:26:56.640
Say people hit that face of yours. Yeah, but it was it was

402
00:26:56.680 --> 00:27:00.920
good for me. It's it's it's
there's always this, I remember I structor

403
00:27:00.920 --> 00:27:03.880
you say this all the time.
There's always somebody better. And just because

404
00:27:03.880 --> 00:27:06.079
I love to compete, and I
did well in competing, you know,

405
00:27:06.200 --> 00:27:10.880
national championships once the world championships did
very well. Some of the best fighters

406
00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:15.240
and competitors I ever met never competed
this. It wasn't their thing. Is

407
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:18.839
a difference between being a great fighter
and a great competitor, I understand,

408
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:22.079
you know. So I have to
remember that I'm I'm a smart guy,

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but I'm not always the smartest person
in the room. And what I want

410
00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:30.079
to be is one of the most
strategic people in the room, because if

411
00:27:30.079 --> 00:27:32.559
you got something, you can teach
me. I'm all about shutting up and

412
00:27:32.599 --> 00:27:36.200
listening, you know, seeing you
do that. Sometimes I got to get

413
00:27:36.279 --> 00:27:38.559
hit over the head to do that, but I'm okay with them. So

414
00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:42.200
a couple more things we've got to
break in about five minutes. So I

415
00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:45.839
want to make sure and pull out
those key things in your life that you

416
00:27:45.920 --> 00:27:48.880
think it kind of really made you
who you are. Yeah. So the

417
00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:52.160
other piece would be dance, and
so as I started dancing me about three

418
00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:56.799
years ago, and it's a dance
in Angolan dance called the kizuomba. It's

419
00:27:56.839 --> 00:27:59.920
its grandfather, if you will,
is semba, and the version of it

420
00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:02.880
I do is called urban kizomba.
And I started to hear in Dallas,

421
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:06.400
and I'm an introvert and it really
gives me an on ramp to have conversations

422
00:28:06.440 --> 00:28:12.240
with people, Otherwise I get struck
by hurricanes. Yeah. And so there's

423
00:28:12.279 --> 00:28:15.839
also and that was has been very
helpful to me over the last three years

424
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:19.599
or so, to meet people in
a community in an environment where I didn't

425
00:28:19.640 --> 00:28:23.680
really know anyone. And I'm kind
of in that way, in an orphan

426
00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:26.920
in this space. So I came
to Dallas with that in mind, and

427
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:30.359
I have some pieces that I wanted
was going to share about my family,

428
00:28:30.359 --> 00:28:32.759
and I don't know if we have
the time to do that after the break,

429
00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:34.079
is I want to focus on your
dance and martial arts after the break,

430
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:37.440
Yes, so on the dance side
again. So I now had the

431
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:41.920
opportunity where I'm good enough to travel
and teach and to teach her locally too,

432
00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:47.319
And I love it. I still
love teaching. I love helping kids

433
00:28:47.319 --> 00:28:51.400
tie their shoes. And if it's
that or if it's anything else. And

434
00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:56.240
yesterday I was teaching a class and
there's I don't know, thirty forty people

435
00:28:56.240 --> 00:29:00.440
and I don't know, but just
watching somebody's eyes turn on because they learned

436
00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:03.119
how to do the thing. And
in this particular dance, it's all about

437
00:29:03.119 --> 00:29:07.279
connecting with the human next to you, the human who has chosen to spend

438
00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:11.559
three minutes or ten minutes right there
with you, in the same space.

439
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:15.480
And for me, because you know, when I grew up, mom was

440
00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:18.000
busy, you know, and there
was a lot going on. And I

441
00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:22.279
have five siblings, five of us
siblings. There's a lot happening in our

442
00:29:22.279 --> 00:29:26.799
family, and by that I mean
a lot of moving parts, and so

443
00:29:26.279 --> 00:29:30.680
there weren't a lot of hugs going
around all the time, and so in

444
00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:33.319
dance, because of how the dance
is designed, I get the opportunity to

445
00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:37.160
hug somebody for three minutes, six
minutes, ten minutes, twelve minutes and

446
00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:42.319
just share my day with them,
and they get to share their day with

447
00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:47.640
me. And how often do we
get to do that in this busy world?

448
00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:52.440
And so I'm in love with the
opportunity to connect with the person next

449
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:55.319
to me. I'm not always the
best at it, but I'm going to

450
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:59.680
keep struggling to make it happen.
It's like continual search for balance that I

451
00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:04.279
learned and martial arts that I transition
and translate over into dance. That let's

452
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:10.160
continue to try to figure out how
we can communicate and talk about how our

453
00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:12.880
day went, how this moment is
going, how the music is making us

454
00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:15.599
feel. And then you go from
them. Then afterwards you high five and

455
00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:19.400
you move on to the next partner. So two things. One, you

456
00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:22.880
are a great hugger. You really
are. Only I've hogged you I think

457
00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:26.000
twice now in my life. And
they're both they're just they're like they really

458
00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:29.640
they stand apart. The second thing
is I want you to say a little

459
00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:33.200
bit about why you hang on to
this phrase being aggressively grateful. Oh,

460
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:38.799
yes, yes, yes, so
I've been I've been fortunate that there's different

461
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:44.559
challenges that have happened, and at
the at the end of each challenge,

462
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:49.720
I am blessed with this opportunity to
see that there the silver lining might be

463
00:30:49.759 --> 00:30:53.519
one hundred miles away, but I
can see it, and I want to

464
00:30:53.559 --> 00:31:00.000
be in touch with that. And
so I look at the people that surround

465
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:07.039
on my life and I realize that, man, I'm fortunate that they they

466
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:11.599
really care about me. You know, they really show me that they care.

467
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:15.039
They take the time and effort and
energy to poke me, to support

468
00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:19.559
me, to push me, to
demand of me. Again, I've got

469
00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:22.039
there's five of us siblings, and
I don't know which one of us is

470
00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:26.359
the smartest or most motivated, but
I can tell you that at any given

471
00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:30.039
time, they are there for me. And I have that with my friends,

472
00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:33.599
and I have that with my colleagues, and they demand of me greatness

473
00:31:33.920 --> 00:31:37.039
and I demand of them the same
thing, and we push and push each

474
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:41.559
other. And when things aren't good, I know that I can pick up

475
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:42.680
the phone, and I got a
lot of numbers I can dial up people,

476
00:31:42.680 --> 00:31:47.440
They're gonna just love me in the
moment, and for that, I

477
00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:52.680
am aggressively grateful, and I want
I push that out to other people.

478
00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:55.319
I mean, I'm all about Hey
if I if you cross my mind,

479
00:31:55.400 --> 00:31:56.559
I might just send you a text. I don't want anything from me,

480
00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:00.759
just letting you know that I thought
about you in this moment. And I

481
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:02.920
do that because people did it for
me. I didn't even know what a

482
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:07.200
thing that somebody did it for me. I know something you did. I

483
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:08.519
thought I was supposed to call you
back. Nope, don't call me back.

484
00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:12.079
Just want to let you know you're
on my mind. That's beautiful.

485
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:14.599
I want to comment on what a
few things that you said. But let's

486
00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:16.920
finish our last break here. I'm
Elise Cortez, your host. We've been

487
00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:21.480
in the year with doctor James Pogue, an expert in multi generational leadership,

488
00:32:21.559 --> 00:32:24.720
unconscious bias in the workplace, where
he provides a consultative expertise, keynotes,

489
00:32:24.759 --> 00:32:29.279
and executive coaching. You jo'ted today
from my Dallas studio office right here next

490
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:31.559
to me, where we're also conducting
a Facebook live stream. After the break,

491
00:32:31.559 --> 00:32:35.759
we're going to talk more about his
dancing in his martial arts and learn

492
00:32:35.839 --> 00:32:38.039
how they inform his passion and the
way he does is work. Stay with

493
00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:52.880
us, We'll be right back.
Alice Cortez is a speaker and engagement and

494
00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:58.960
development catalyst. She designs and delivers
professional development, leadership and engagement workshops and

495
00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:02.599
can bring her experts peas to your
organization. She will help ignite meaningful development

496
00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:07.759
within your workforce that will increase employee
engagement, performance and retention. To learn

497
00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:12.680
more or to invite Elise to speak
to your organization, please visit her at

498
00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:17.400
www dot Elisecortes dot com. She
would welcome the opportunity to help get your

499
00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:30.200
employees working on purpose. This is
working on purpose with elease Cortes. To

500
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:36.200
reach our program today, send an
email to a lease Alise at a Leasecortes

501
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:43.359
dot com. Now back to working
on purpose. Interesting with this and welcome

502
00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:45.240
back to working on purpose If you're
just tuning in. My guest is doctor

503
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:50.680
James Pogue, who's the CEO of
James Pogue Enterprises. Leading and training are

504
00:33:50.759 --> 00:33:52.640
at the core of who he is
and align with his ongo and commitment to

505
00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:58.400
equip executives and professionals with a thought
leadership to improve communicate and manage effectively.

506
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:02.039
Unconscious biased versus inclusion and multi generational
leadership are the right now, issues he

507
00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:06.599
addresses in his work. I'm your
host at least Cortes, so I want

508
00:34:06.640 --> 00:34:08.719
to comment on what you said before
break, and then I also want to

509
00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:12.960
let's catch what Kim just said on
W four c Y chat room. She

510
00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:16.000
says hugging can heal depression. So
hug people often. I agree, I

511
00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:19.639
do it all the time, and
he is a victim of it himself.

512
00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:22.760
That's always on the show. So
thank you Kim for that reminder. I'll

513
00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:25.400
keep hugging. The other thing that
I want to say about what you were

514
00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:29.280
sharing, and this is so important
and I do it my work too,

515
00:34:29.440 --> 00:34:31.880
is to the way we share our
story. Our life. Story is so

516
00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:37.440
profoundly important because it gets to identity, and identity drives behavior. It drives

517
00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:38.880
how we feel about ourselves, how
we think about ourselves. So I love

518
00:34:38.920 --> 00:34:42.639
That's why I wanted you to share
your story. There's so many other things

519
00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:45.760
you could have pulled for from that
story, but the way that you share

520
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:50.639
it now we start to understand even
more how you work with unconscious bias,

521
00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:53.920
diversity, inclusion, and there's a
love that sits underneath that that we can

522
00:34:53.960 --> 00:35:00.519
all feel. Yeah. And then
also this idea that I I hope for

523
00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:06.159
people that they can find a way
to connect what they love to do with

524
00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:08.920
what they do every day. And
I know for some people, you know,

525
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:14.280
life hasn't worked out that way for
them. But if there's even a

526
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:17.639
window, a small window of time, a moment, and for me,

527
00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:22.280
this is what happens sometimes when I'm
teaching dance, you see a person who

528
00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:27.639
this is their moment to be out. They've got a spouse at the house

529
00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:30.199
or a spouse with them, or
they got kids at the house or kids

530
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:34.039
with them, and they're like,
this is my time just to be in

531
00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:37.239
a place where I can be happy
and I can hear the music and I

532
00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:42.239
can hang out and have adult conversation. Maybe and they may not know how

533
00:35:42.280 --> 00:35:45.639
to dance well at all or ever, and that's okay too. What you

534
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:49.639
get to do is spend time with
people that have a passion for something that

535
00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:53.000
you have, and then we can
connect and hang out and sort of love

536
00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:58.159
each other for ten twenty thirty minutes
or three hours and then you know,

537
00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:00.880
see you next time. In those
moments where you can if you can get

538
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:07.280
positivity sort of injected into your spirit
from someone who's doing it on purpose.

539
00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:14.079
To your point about working on purpose
and loving on purpose, if we can

540
00:36:14.159 --> 00:36:16.000
do that for each other, then
all the better. It's a win.

541
00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:21.880
So I'll say two things to that. One is, I think I told

542
00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:23.679
you that I started taking tango dance
questions a while ago, and I am

543
00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:27.599
loving it. Every Sunday at four
point thirty, I go up to Carrollton

544
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:30.639
and I dance for an hour.
I put my heels on and I just

545
00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:34.119
melt into it, and I love
it. It's elegant, it's beautiful,

546
00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:37.599
it's expressive, and you're right,
there's something about just dropping into that space

547
00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:42.360
that is wonderful. And then for
you, what I also wanted to talk

548
00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:45.239
about is when I was thinking about
what I wanted to talk with you about

549
00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:46.239
the radio show, and I was
thinking I knew I wanted to talk with

550
00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:51.280
you about dance, I didn't even
connect it to your musical love. And

551
00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:52.559
I don't know if that is connected
for you, but there seems to be

552
00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:59.079
something about movement and connection for you. Yeah, me and my body are

553
00:36:59.079 --> 00:37:01.360
good friends, you know, and
we've known each other for a while,

554
00:37:02.320 --> 00:37:08.599
and so in college I was not
a good dancer. I mean, the

555
00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:14.400
band can dance and move and entertainment. I was not ready. And I

556
00:37:14.440 --> 00:37:17.119
remember the upper classman, the same
ones who positioned me to not be a

557
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:20.679
music major because of their talent.
They said to me, said, look,

558
00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:24.119
James, the band directors. One
of his phrases was holes don't make

559
00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:28.039
mistakes, and so he'd rather have
a hole out there on the field than

560
00:37:28.039 --> 00:37:31.679
have you out there making mistakes.
And you're not good enough. Go practice,

561
00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:36.039
Go lock yourself in your dorm room, turn the radio on and keep

562
00:37:36.039 --> 00:37:39.320
moving to your trip over the beat
because you're terrible. That's so encouraging,

563
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:43.599
Yes, and it's kind of in
love because they wanted me to be on

564
00:37:43.639 --> 00:37:46.320
the field right, but I wasn't
good enough. And how many times have

565
00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:51.119
has someone come to us and said, you're not good enough right now?

566
00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:53.480
But in love right and because I
want you to be better. And of

567
00:37:53.480 --> 00:37:58.039
course we're all some teenage or some
version of teenager at that hr are ways

568
00:37:58.079 --> 00:38:00.960
of communicating. We're in all the
ways the smoothest. But they did that

569
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:07.159
for me, and so I learned
how to communicate through dance to forty fifty

570
00:38:07.199 --> 00:38:10.719
thousand of my best friends in the
audience, which is a lot for you,

571
00:38:10.760 --> 00:38:15.000
is it, hey? And how
do you how do I give them

572
00:38:15.199 --> 00:38:17.039
this piece of me? You know, I've got a ten minute field show

573
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:22.639
and I'm about to give it to
you, right you know. And whatever

574
00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:24.480
I got, You're about to get
it, you know. And that's how

575
00:38:24.519 --> 00:38:27.400
I feel when I ask you to
dance. When I ask you to dance,

576
00:38:27.440 --> 00:38:30.280
it's about to be a situation.
It's about to go down these three

577
00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:34.320
minutes between you and me. Yep, We're about to have a full fledged

578
00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:37.519
relationship right now. That's awesome.
Yes, that's how I'm bringing it to

579
00:38:37.559 --> 00:38:40.119
you. And if I don't do
a good job, just know that I

580
00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:45.079
did the best I could. No, it's beautiful. And I'm also getting

581
00:38:45.119 --> 00:38:46.880
that connection in my work with the
Tango too. I do understand what you

582
00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:52.800
mean. There's in that three minutes
of dance or that song we are in

583
00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:55.280
a relationship. I understand what you're
saying. I'm learning what you're saying.

584
00:38:55.320 --> 00:39:00.239
Put it that way. So,
in preparation for this conversation, I and

585
00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:04.639
did a little bit of looking on
YouTube for Kissamba. Yes, okay,

586
00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:07.559
so you told me that you've I
think you told me this. You've taught

587
00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:12.719
workships, all workshops all over including
Singapore, Japan, Malaysia. I found

588
00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:17.000
it to be very expressive. So
where did this dance come from? And

589
00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:23.760
what does it mean to you?
So in Angola they had terrible war,

590
00:39:23.960 --> 00:39:28.079
famine, et cetera, and people
didn't have anything. They just had each

591
00:39:28.119 --> 00:39:31.559
other, and so the dance kind
of started with people hugging each other and

592
00:39:31.639 --> 00:39:35.840
rocking back and forth. It's just
me and you in this moment. We

593
00:39:35.880 --> 00:39:37.880
don't have much, we don't have
anything, but we have each other.

594
00:39:38.519 --> 00:39:42.480
And the dance grew out of that. And so the dance at its root,

595
00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:44.840
at its heart, it's a family
dance. It's something I can do

596
00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:49.800
with my grandmother, my mother,
my daughters, whomever. And it's also

597
00:39:49.880 --> 00:39:52.400
something like I have guys that I
dance with because sometimes I want to follow

598
00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:57.960
versus leading all the time. And
so it is a dance that is about

599
00:39:58.039 --> 00:40:01.079
connection between these two people. And
so it grew out of that in Angola

600
00:40:01.159 --> 00:40:05.440
to becomes the word ki zooma and
Portuguese means a party, like so like

601
00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:07.599
a barbecue party. Known that I
speak Portuguese, I didn't know that there

602
00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:14.159
you go see, and so it
is a again it's simplest, it's just

603
00:40:14.239 --> 00:40:17.239
something we do with our friends and
hangout, right, And then the Urban

604
00:40:17.360 --> 00:40:21.960
Kids partner a contemporary music and different
beats and so on, so it has

605
00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:25.599
maybe more of a tango es romantic
feel to it at times, and so

606
00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:30.440
that part I may not do with
my mother, of course, but there

607
00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:34.679
are other opportunities even within Urban Kids, which is the component that I do

608
00:40:35.320 --> 00:40:38.440
primarily that allows me to have fun, to connect with people, and to

609
00:40:38.639 --> 00:40:43.800
release as my As one of my
mentor said in New York, the poison

610
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:49.960
of the day interesting. So that's
beautiful and it's what I'm learning about you

611
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:52.639
too. And the first time when
we had lunch together, that first time,

612
00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:55.239
after I costed you and got you
have lunch for you there, you

613
00:40:55.320 --> 00:41:00.559
came into the restaurant, you sat
down with a presence that I don't know

614
00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:04.760
how to describe, but I think
it is totally informed by how you literally

615
00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:07.599
dance through life, how you move
through life, And it feels to me

616
00:41:07.800 --> 00:41:13.280
like you're collecting all these experiences and
interactions and dances and conversations that you've been

617
00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:15.360
accumulating in your life. And when
you sit down from somebody, we feel

618
00:41:15.360 --> 00:41:19.559
all of those things. That's what
it feels like to me. I really

619
00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:22.599
want to be fully present in the
moment that I have with someone, even

620
00:41:22.599 --> 00:41:25.159
if we're disagreeing and arguing and fussing, you know, and even if I'm

621
00:41:25.159 --> 00:41:30.679
not getting it whatever it is I'm
trying to receive from you and you're trying

622
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:32.119
to pour into me, and I'm
just you know, like this blank page.

623
00:41:32.159 --> 00:41:35.639
I can't get it or I can't
understand it the way that you are.

624
00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:39.000
At least you know I'm there,
and so everything that I've learned up

625
00:41:39.039 --> 00:41:45.079
until the moment that I met you
is on call for the time that I'm

626
00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:47.280
with you. That's what it feels
like, you know. And I really

627
00:41:47.360 --> 00:41:52.719
want to be there with people,
and I love when that person chooses to

628
00:41:52.760 --> 00:41:57.719
be there with me. I'm not
a big fan of, Hey, come

629
00:41:57.760 --> 00:41:59.880
spend this time with me. It's
more like, would you like to?

630
00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:04.800
And if you take one step towards
me, what right do I have not

631
00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:07.239
to take twenty towards you? Because
I'm capable, you know. And then

632
00:42:07.639 --> 00:42:12.039
maybe all you can do is take
one step, But I got the rest,

633
00:42:12.199 --> 00:42:15.360
you know, because every time when
it'll be the reverse when all I

634
00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:19.360
can do is raise my hand and
say, could you come and talk to

635
00:42:19.400 --> 00:42:22.440
me? And I want people to
come and be around me and be in

636
00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:27.119
my space and share a moment with
me. That's so beautiful. And I

637
00:42:27.159 --> 00:42:30.800
appreciate that because if the work that
I do is really around helping people to

638
00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:36.360
discover, nurture and grow their passion, inspiration and their purpose. So I

639
00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:38.639
live in that space that I want
more of us to dwell there with you

640
00:42:38.719 --> 00:42:42.760
and come along with you. And
to that end, would you share a

641
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:46.559
little bit about you just came back
from two weeks where you're traveling somewhere fantastic

642
00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:52.559
teaching dance, yes, and having
fun. Yes. In Singapore, there's

643
00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:58.559
a group there called the Dance Connection, and there there's a teacher there or

644
00:42:58.559 --> 00:43:02.960
an organized name is Irene and Irene
Lynn and she and I connected when I

645
00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:06.920
first went to Singapore maybe six months
ago, and I told us, look,

646
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:08.320
I'll come back as often as wrong
because I love to teach. Let's

647
00:43:08.360 --> 00:43:13.840
just figure it out. And so
she arranged for me to come there for

648
00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:17.119
two weeks and I taught and lived
and hung out in Singapore, and I

649
00:43:17.159 --> 00:43:20.320
worked my butt off on the teaching
side. It was exhausting, but it

650
00:43:20.360 --> 00:43:23.239
was wonderfully exhausting, and she has
connections in Malaysian. So we went to

651
00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:27.679
Malaysia, took a six hour bus
ride to Malaysia and then hung out in

652
00:43:27.719 --> 00:43:30.679
Kuala Lumpur. Got the solid love
that see two huge tall twin buildings.

653
00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:36.159
Who knew and so that was great
too. Yeah, eight interesting food and

654
00:43:36.360 --> 00:43:42.280
talked with interesting people. I mean, I'm living a really really good life.

655
00:43:42.360 --> 00:43:45.639
And again for all of these things, I'm really really grateful. I

656
00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:49.360
really applaud that. In fact,
one of the things that I often speak

657
00:43:49.400 --> 00:43:51.960
about when I'm talking to anybody,
whether it's an audience or whether it's one

658
00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:54.280
on one, is the importance of
creating an overall life, not just a

659
00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:58.199
career, but create the life that
you want for yourself. And then you

660
00:43:58.239 --> 00:44:00.400
make your work inside of that or
through and around it and thread it through.

661
00:44:00.679 --> 00:44:05.360
And I love the way that you
stitch together this beautiful fabric of a

662
00:44:05.480 --> 00:44:09.320
gorgeous what I would call well lived
life. I'm doing the best I can.

663
00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:12.599
I'm doing the best I can.
I'm going to hit you right,

664
00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:15.199
so hang on, all right,
we don't have too much time left,

665
00:44:15.199 --> 00:44:19.400
But could you say a little bit
about your martial arts. You're still doing

666
00:44:19.440 --> 00:44:22.800
that. I know you've got these
five national championships that you mentioned before.

667
00:44:22.800 --> 00:44:25.239
I want to know how it is
that you want to have the time to

668
00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:30.159
continue this kind of training and how
does it inform your life and your work.

669
00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:31.719
Sure, so I don't get the
chance to work out as much as

670
00:44:31.719 --> 00:44:36.519
I would really like to. So
really the martial arts component of my life

671
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:40.480
is in how I approach the world
that I remember being trained that when you

672
00:44:40.519 --> 00:44:46.400
walk into the competitive area, who
are you? What are you? You

673
00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:52.360
know, and have a presence and
be somebody and look around and be aware

674
00:44:52.800 --> 00:44:57.079
of what is taking place. Know
that people are assessing you in this case

675
00:44:57.159 --> 00:44:59.920
for are you a competitor? Are
you strong? Are you fast? Are

676
00:44:59.920 --> 00:45:02.679
you confident? Like when I ask
someone to dance, I want to ask

677
00:45:02.719 --> 00:45:07.559
in a confident manner so that my
future partner knows that I, at the

678
00:45:07.639 --> 00:45:10.760
very least we're going to get these
basic steps together if that's all I've got

679
00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:15.800
today. Same thing when I approach
the martial arts competitive arena, when I

680
00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:19.280
bow in, I'm giving you the
best I got here. And there are

681
00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:22.199
times when I've given the best I've
got and I got my head handed to

682
00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:24.280
me, and that's okay, you
know, but I'm going to walk in

683
00:45:24.280 --> 00:45:28.599
the door with both both feet on
the floor and shoulders back. You know,

684
00:45:28.679 --> 00:45:31.880
Mom taught me that a long time
ago. Who you are the commercial,

685
00:45:32.039 --> 00:45:37.159
the marketing for who you are means
something. So that whole presentation,

686
00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:39.440
yeah, faked tea make it kind
of a thing that hass some value,

687
00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:44.039
especially as a younger person. And
then as you fill your cup and you

688
00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:51.840
become more solid, people can see
that you are more than the commercial that

689
00:45:51.880 --> 00:45:55.840
you're providing. And if they're curious
and if you're both willing, you can

690
00:45:55.840 --> 00:46:00.199
explore that more, you know,
and I'm excited about the opportunity to do

691
00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:04.159
that with each new person. Well, so it makes you such a full

692
00:46:04.280 --> 00:46:07.159
person, right And now then you
add to this. You also told me

693
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:10.360
that you recently began taking bachata pashata
dance. Yes, it's a struggle.

694
00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:15.239
It's a struggle, the struggle.
I looked at that to another beautiful dance.

695
00:46:15.320 --> 00:46:21.159
Why that dance? I? Bachata, salsa and kizoomba oftentimes are bundled

696
00:46:21.159 --> 00:46:24.599
together at dance clubs, and I
get sick and tired of sitting down and

697
00:46:24.639 --> 00:46:29.719
watching other people I want to be
in and I'm watching people do all this

698
00:46:29.760 --> 00:46:31.760
stuff, and ladies are come and
ask me dance. I remember it's happened

699
00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:36.159
in Canada. I just had this
really great kazoomba dance. It was great,

700
00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:38.360
wonderful, and they started playing pachata
music. A lady runs up to

701
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:42.039
me and says, do you dance
machata? I was like no. She

702
00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:45.320
says, what the hell is wrong
with you? I was like, yeah,

703
00:46:45.400 --> 00:46:47.000
you know, I need to get
my life together, and I need

704
00:46:47.039 --> 00:46:50.480
to get it together. That's all
me. What am I doing in a

705
00:46:50.559 --> 00:46:53.639
room where they're playing great music and
I don't have the confidence to at least

706
00:46:53.639 --> 00:46:58.079
get out there and let me get
these basics together and we're gonna have a

707
00:46:58.119 --> 00:47:01.440
great basic dance. That's why I
can give a great basic four. Okay,

708
00:47:01.599 --> 00:47:05.159
I got like three and a half
moves that I have mastered. Okay,

709
00:47:05.239 --> 00:47:07.719
so in tanga we have we have
a six and an eight, so

710
00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:09.079
that may I got those. If
you get those two down, you're you're

711
00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:15.599
pretty much you're good. You can
dance with somebody. So I'm interested.

712
00:47:15.639 --> 00:47:19.079
Since I love the concept of how
we weave a life together, I want

713
00:47:19.119 --> 00:47:22.239
to understand better how you think you
dance your martial arts. Just the way

714
00:47:22.280 --> 00:47:28.880
you move through life informs how you
do your work. Sure, So it's

715
00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:30.440
again, it's about this this balance. Right. So, when I'm in

716
00:47:30.480 --> 00:47:36.239
front of a crowd and they've allowed
me to come and spend time with them,

717
00:47:36.239 --> 00:47:40.400
when somebody has said you have something
valuable to come and share with us

718
00:47:40.440 --> 00:47:45.679
twenty people or two hundred or two
thousand people, it's the same concept as

719
00:47:45.159 --> 00:47:49.119
someone asking me to dance, or
I ask them to dance and they say,

720
00:47:49.280 --> 00:47:52.519
you have something valuable to share.
Wow. Right, So I prepare

721
00:47:52.519 --> 00:47:57.000
the same way I try to.
I'm going to give you everything I've got

722
00:47:57.079 --> 00:47:59.440
when I'm on this stage. I'm
give you everything i've got. When I'm

723
00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:01.760
doing this console tation of this workshop, I'm going to study. I'm going

724
00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:07.239
to try to be as competent as
possible and then provide to you the information

725
00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:13.199
wrapped in a way that you can
understand and digest. An instructor told me

726
00:48:13.239 --> 00:48:15.280
one time in the Kazumble world that
all of us can do teach the basic

727
00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:19.400
stuff. Everybody can. And I
feel the same way about consultants. All

728
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:22.760
of us can do all the basic
stuff. They bring me in as a

729
00:48:22.800 --> 00:48:25.119
teacher, dance teacher, or as
a consultant or as a speaker because of

730
00:48:25.159 --> 00:48:30.159
how I do it, and so
I want it to be wrapped in a

731
00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:35.519
way that is full of respect and
honor and dignity and recognizing that in this

732
00:48:35.559 --> 00:48:39.800
world of diversity of black and white
and brown and Asian and gender issues and

733
00:48:39.800 --> 00:48:45.320
ability disability issues, that I am
not going to beat you over the head

734
00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:50.639
for not being as sophisticated from a
diversity inclusion perspective as the next person.

735
00:48:51.280 --> 00:48:53.159
I will push you and challenge you
to do that, but not so much

736
00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:57.880
because you don't know. All might
challenge because you're not trying to get better,

737
00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:00.880
but not because you don't know.
Wow, that was gorgeous and here

738
00:49:00.880 --> 00:49:04.039
we are out of a time.
So I want to thank you very much

739
00:49:04.119 --> 00:49:07.159
doctor Poge for joining us. Your
spirit is so beautiful. I couldn't resist

740
00:49:07.239 --> 00:49:09.280
and I had to share with my
listeners. So thank you for coming and

741
00:49:09.440 --> 00:49:12.960
dancing with us on air. Oh, I appreciate that. Thank you,

742
00:49:13.599 --> 00:49:15.079
listener. If you want to learn
more about doctor Pogue and the work that

743
00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:20.559
he is doing on unconscious bias,
diversity inclusion, multi generational leadership, visit

744
00:49:20.639 --> 00:49:24.280
him as website, it's James Pogue
dot com. So James and then Pogue

745
00:49:24.320 --> 00:49:29.599
is Pogue dot com. Last week, if they missed a live show,

746
00:49:29.599 --> 00:49:31.199
you can always catch a be recorded
podcast. We were on the air with

747
00:49:31.239 --> 00:49:36.719
doctor h gen Wright talking about finding
the strength in our struggles the lessons he's

748
00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:39.679
learned from his decades of serving as
a forensic and clinical psychologist working with the

749
00:49:39.719 --> 00:49:43.760
government and in prisons. Next week, we'll be on the air with Lynn

750
00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:46.719
Franks Obe, a true renaissance woman
who, at the age of seventy one,

751
00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:51.440
is steam ahead full onto her multiple
paleati of adventures as an activist,

752
00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:54.639
writer, businesswoman, teacher, leader, and grandmother. We should all have

753
00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:58.679
half her passionate purpose. See you
there. Remember that work is at least

754
00:49:58.719 --> 00:50:04.800
one third of our life. Work
on Purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this

755
00:50:04.880 --> 00:50:08.760
week's program. Be sure to tune
in to Working on Purpose featuring your host

756
00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:15.119
Alis Cortes, each week on the
Voice America Empowerment Channel. This week,

757
00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:16.760
find your life's purpose at work