Feb. 18, 2025

Trust-Driven Leadership: Overcoming Roadblocks and Strengthening Workplace Connections

Trust-Driven Leadership: Overcoming Roadblocks and Strengthening Workplace Connections

Trust is the foundation of great leadership—but too often, leaders unknowingly create barriers that weaken connection and impact. In this episode, Russel Lolacher shares how clear leadership definitions, intentional time investment, and trust-driven...

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Trust is the foundation of great leadership—but too often, leaders unknowingly create barriers that weaken connection and impact. In this episode, Russel Lolacher shares how clear leadership definitions, intentional time investment, and trust-driven strategies can transform workplace relationships. We’ll explore the seven roadblocks leaders put in their own way, how to enhance clarity and impact at work, and why time is the most valuable gift we can offer our teams.

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WEBVTT

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The topics and opinions express in the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests and not

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What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the

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answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose

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at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their

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lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization

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that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their

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highest potential. Business can be such a force for good

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in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide

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guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we

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all want working on Purpose. Now here's your host, doctor

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Elise Cortes.

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Welcome back to the Working and Purpose Program, which has

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been brought to you with passion and pride since February

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of twenty fifteen. Thanks for tuning in again this week.

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Great to have you. I'm your host, Doctor Release Cortes.

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If we've not met before and you don't know me,

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I'm an organizational psychologist, management consultant, logo therapist, speaker and author.

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My team and I at Gusta and Now helped companies

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in liven and fortify their operations by building a dynamic

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by performance culture and an inspirational leadership activated by meaning

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and purpose. You do know that inspire employees outperform their

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satisfied counterparts by a factor of two point twenty five

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to one. In other words, inspiration is good for the

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bottom line. You can learn more about us and how

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we can work together at gustodashnow dot com or my

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personal site at Leascoortes dot com. Today's program we have

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with us today Russell Wellocker, an international speaker and the

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host and producer of the Relationships at Work podcast, the

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guide for building workplace connections and avoiding leadership blind spots.

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These held successful leadership and communications roles for alle twenty

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five years, retaining one team for almost twelve years, and

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his work and expertise in building employee and customer trust

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have been recognized on international stages, multiple publications, and as

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a four time named Top Thought Leader by the International

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Customer Management Institute. We'll be diving in this particular episode

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in these areas of expertise on leadership. He joins us

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today from Let's see Victoria, British Columbia and Canada. Russell

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A hearty, welcome to Working on Purpose.

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Thanks for having me, Aleise thrilled to be here.

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All right, isn't it nice to be on the other

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side of the mic?

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Sometimes it is, there's extra pressure, but yeah, it feels

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lovely and.

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Good. Good, Well, we're going to talk about fun things

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that both you and I care about, leadership, trust, all

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kinds of good things like that. And I appreciate getting

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to converse with you and really pull from your background

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and to start, I really loved how you situated the

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idea that we could talk about the actual You said that,

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why is it the definition of leadership? It's so important

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for building employee trust. Let's start there.

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Absolutely, And I love that you want to start with

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definitions because and I had the pleasure of having you

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on my podcast as well, so I know this is

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a bedrock of a conversation piece for us. So definitions

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are so important because what are we talking about if

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we don't have things defined, if we're not singing from

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the same song sheet. We throw out words in corporate

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culture all the time like diversity, leadership, culture, and yet

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nobody wants to define them so that we can reinforce

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support them and go down a particular path. I'll even

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I'll tell you a story where this really this hammered

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home for me. I was out with a friend of

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mine who was working with some executives I knew, and

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she went on to tell me that this particular person

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was an amazing leader, phenomenal leader. And I'm like, okay, interesting.

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I knew for a fact that person was not a

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good leader, so I was curious in that moment and said, okay,

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how do you know they're a great leader? And her

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response was extremely telling. Her response was she gets me

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what I want when I want it.

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Wow.

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So you define leadership as the ends justify the means.

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They got you a thing. And I'm like, do you

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realize that that leader has the highest turnover burnout rate?

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But to you, they're a great leader because they produced,

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not because they had anything positive around the relationships of

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the people they were responsible for. So her definition of

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leadership was probably a lot different than the team member

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of that executive and what they were going through. So

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definitions matter.

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Well, so how do you define leadership?

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I think the organization has to I think the organization

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has to define leadership so that those that are seeking

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leadership know what game we're playing. To be honest, if

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you talk to executives, most of them will say, oh,

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leaderships Simon Sinek and Berne Brown, but they won't reward

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those characteristics. They won't follow up in a performance review

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of well are you making other leaders are you growing

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your staff? Or they don't care. It's more of can

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you fix the problem that we have a problem and

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what's getting in your way of fixing that problem. So,

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even if you don't agree with the definition the organization

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has for leadership, because that might be beyond your control

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within a business area, at least you know what you're

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getting into and what game you're playing. I might completely

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disagree with what they think leadership is because I have

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my own definition of what and I know you do

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as well. Where it's the human piece. But if the

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organization has a definition of leadership. Oh, they're going to

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see a huge turnover, they're going to see burnout, they're

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going to see but that's the game they're playing. So

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we need to understand what the game is. And maybe

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we need to work somewhere else, but at least we

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know what we're talking about.

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Hmm. Such a great point too, Thanks to that, Russell.

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I have to comment on. One is that I'm always

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amazed how many organizations conflate management and leadership, two very

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very very very different things. So let's talk about that

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really quick. So let's let me just throw it to

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you first. How would you distinguish those two different roles?

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Absolutely, and that is such a key piece because we

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make the huge mistake in organizations of calling managers leaders right,

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and I mean that throughout the entire organization. I was

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recently talking to somebody with their like my direct report,

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my boss does not listen to me, does not champion me,

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does not grow me, And I'm frustrated. I'm like, how

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long you've been working with them? For two years? They're

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a manager. And to your point about definitions, managers manage

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resources and deliverables. Leaders are growing and supporting human beings.

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You need to have both. Both are extremely, extremely important.

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But to your point, we confuse the two so that

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a manager who's a great manager and a horrible leader

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is still being called a leader. So they think they're

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doing just fine. They call them they're on a leadership team.

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They're a senior leader. No they're not. They're just a manager,

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and we have we're going to have higher expectations of

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them when they don't have the skill set.

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Yeah, such a great, great distinction. Wrestler completely agree with that,

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and I take tuteledge from my mentor at doctor Lance Sacraton,

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who also hails from Canada, and he really distinguishes tremendously

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between management and leadership, but he also the leadership part

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of this especially, and this comes over to my second

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point for him, and this is where I align with him,

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is I'm interested in developing inspirational leaders. And so those

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people are first and foremost turned on by their own lives,

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themselves and what they're up to in their own world,

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and they have a strong, hearty connection and believe in

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what the organization is doing. That becomes attractive and energizing

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force and they are focused heavily on to your point,

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on their people and loving them into becoming their higher potential,

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really encouraging them a challenge in them, giving them as

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stretch assignments. They know who these people are, and they

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can see and want for them more than they even

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want for themselves, and they take to light and seeing

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them realize those stretch goals and that growth.

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It's interesting you brought that up because that's something I

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struggle with a bit, is around how we qualify leadership,

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because we'll see things like inspirational leader, people leader, servant leader,

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and to me, it's all just whether you're a good

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leader or not. Like we put these words in front

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of it to help those who don't understand leadership and

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understand what their job is, like, oh, I want to

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be a people leader, Like no, actually, you're just being

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a leader or a manager, a good one or a

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bad one. But we have to put those words in

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front of it so that people understand the actions and

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the intent they need to have in order to be

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better leaders. But to me, it's either you're a good leader,

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which would be inspirational, servant growth leadership. But we have

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to almost put that in as a communications exercise to

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get people on board to understand what a good leader

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looks and.

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Acts like I really appreciate your distinction that each each

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organization needs to decide what kind of leaders do we

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want around here. I've certainly worked with organizations like well

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so in my work. This is so interesting just thinking

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about history here, Russell. When I first really got involved

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in the human capital general space a person recruiting and

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then kind of went along the way. Back then, a

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lot of the stuff that I was really doing were

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called soft skills. Now they're called essential skills, right, So

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all these things that we used to think of as

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just you know, nice to have additions. So what's happened

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is because I worked in that realm quite a bit,

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teaching people things around employee engagement and communication, et cetera.

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I worked with a lot of very technical audiences, scientists, engineers,

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it people because they needed that kind of additional leering

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and of skills and what they had on their own,

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and I loved working with them. And some of those

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organizations were, you know, they really proded in having very

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technically astute leaders, people that had a very strong technical vocabulary,

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who were commanding in their technical pross. So to your point,

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you know, each organization defining what kind of a leader.

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Do we really want in prize around here? And we

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will reward around here?

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Absolutely, and technical people are some of my favorite people.

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They're brilliant. But to be really strong in their technical

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sense doesn't mean they're strong in other sense. They need

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people like yourself and myself sort of to clarify that.

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A perfect example was this was I worked with a

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technical group who was trying to communicate what they did,

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and they provided me a PowerPoint presentation that was one

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hundred and twenty slides deep, and I'm like, wow, oh oh, no,

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you've you've there's no mystery here, You've covered everything. But

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nobody's going to listen to this. Nobody's gonna get past

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slide too. So they couldn't connect with or build relationships

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with anybody because they were so stuck in the details.

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And that as a technical person, my god, please be

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that person. But it is another skill set to understand

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what connection and communication look like right exactly.

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Now, you're not exaggerating. There was one hundred and twenty.

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I think one hundred and seventeen. I'm not exaggerating at all.

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I was bored by slide three, but yeah, yeah, on seventeen.

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Wow, Wow, here's just get to know us a little bit.

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All right. Well, okay, well, speaking of that that, maybe

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this is the next This is the time to bring

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up the next topic that I wanted to talk to

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you with that we agreed on in advance, but that

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the seven roadblocks to great leadership we put in our

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own way. That might be one of them.

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I don't know, Uh, it can be. Yeah, no, it was.

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It's been an interesting journey on this. I've noticed as

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I've been talking to leaders and in my own experience

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as a leader, it really became really apparent to me

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that there are these things that leadership will put in

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their own way to get in the way of great

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leadership in an organization. Because we often hear the phrase

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people don't leave good jobs, they leave bad leaders right,

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And I actually disagree with that. I actually think people

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leave leave bad leadership ecosystems. And the reason I bring

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that up is that you will have people go I

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need to leave Sarah or Jim or whomever as my boss.

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I'm like, okay, Now, if that organization identified that bad leader,

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did something about it, coached them, mentored them, provided the

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skills they needed to turn it around, would you still

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stay in that organization, and they're like, well, yeah, I

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would stay because they're doing something to fix it. The

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problem is most organizations don't. They just allow this bad

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leadership to fester and then until it becomes untenable because

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everybody's left, or they need to fire that person, or

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they just let it continue. So I was looking at

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these seven roadblocks to go what gets in the way

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of us being able to identify bad leaders or for

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us to be able to fix these cracks in our culture.

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So we don't have to go through all seven, but sure, whatever,

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whatever we go down. The first roadblock I find is

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the roadblock of negligence, which is the I'm too busy

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sin right, and this is where we have And unfortunately,

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most leaders fall within this one, and they are more

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run by their calendar than they are run as leaders.

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And I would argue most that are running from meeting

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to meeting aren't leaders. They are cogs in a wheel

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because they are barely breathing because their only respite is

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that fifteen minute lunch. They might get that they're fighting

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that nobody puts a meeting in, right, But your team's like,

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I don't have any time with you. You provide no direction,

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You provide no insight into what you want and how

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you want it, unless it's that five seconds between the

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next thing you have to do. So the greatest gift

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we can provide anybody as a leader is time. And

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unfortunately leadership is being punished because the leader above them

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needs to be great too. They need to provide barriers,

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they need to provide that sandbox in which leaders need

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to play, and unfortunately calendars do not do that because

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it becomes so packed that to your point, they become

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managers managing of their time, managing of the next to do,

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rather than leading a team because they don't have the time,

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but they use it as an excuse to get in

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the way of being good leaders.

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Okay, that is an amazing point. I do want to

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cover as made as I can. Let's grab our first break,

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so that's the first one to kick us off. There,

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I'm your host, doctor Release Cortez. We've got on the

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air with Russell Lollicker, who has held successful leadership and

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communication roles for almost twenty five years, and his work

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and expertise in building employees and customer trust has been

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recognized on international stages all over the world. We've been

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talking a bit about just what is leadership, and now

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we're getting into the first point of some roadblocks. After break,

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we're going to cover some more. We'll be right back.

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Doctor Elise Cortez is a manager and consultant specializing in

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meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps

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companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose

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inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,

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and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to

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invite a lease to speak to your organization, please visit

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her at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to

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get your employees working on purpose. This is working on

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Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today

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or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email

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to Elise A Lisee at elisecortes dot com. Now back

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to working on Purpose.

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Thank you for Jane with us, and welcome back to

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Working on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as

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I am dedicated to helping create a world where people

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realize their potential at work. Are let bite those inspiration

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leaders we've been talking about and those leaders actually help

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them find and contribute their greatness, and we do business

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at Betters in the world. I keep researching and writing

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my own books. So my last one came out in

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twenty twenty three. It's called The Great Revitalization out Activating

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meaning and purpose can radically in liven your business. And

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I'm root to help leaders understand the lay of today's land.

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What does the workforce really want and need from them

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to give their best and want to stay? And then

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I offer twenty two best practices to help you build

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that into your culture to create that for them. You

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can find my books on Amazon or my personal site

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at least quretest dot com if you are just now

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joining us. My guest is Russell Lollocker, an international speaker

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and the host producer of the Relationship at Work podcast,

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The Guide to Building workplace connections and avoiding leadership blind spots.

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Just what we're getting into, Okay, So that first one

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of the idea of they're not they're just managing their calendar.

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So to me, one thing that I can think of

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so that we can help our listeners in yours. What

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we do about that is we build and we block

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off time that looks like we're busy, but it's actually

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meant for our people. Yeah.

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Absolutely, boundaries are where you show your leadership here, and

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I mean that boundaries against pressures of that are coming

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from all sides. As a leader were pulled in seventeen

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million directions. That includes the person that we're reporting to,

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and we need to be passionate about keeping those boundaries.

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And I block off time all the time. I think

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that's one of the but then be precious about it.

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You can't move it around, you can't. So from my experience,

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actually my team that I kept for about twelve years

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was the exact same team I had in my calendar.

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A half hour with them that would not be moved.

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It was only for them. Ever, for them, they led it.

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It could be about work, it could be about performance career,

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it could be some of the troubles they were having

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at home. Whatever it was. I provided the space and

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they filled it to the point where I actually tried

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to cancel it once. I'm like, you know what, I

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don't know if these are working. And it was like pitchforks.

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They were so because I mean, you don't me wrong.

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We talked all the time, but this was sort of

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so special and precious to them that this was some

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personal interaction, relationship building moment that they could count on

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and frequency is really up to you in that team member,

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but the value is making sure that it exists.

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Awesome, Okay, let's talk about Let's hit as many of

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these roadbooks as we can. Joining This is really useful

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for our listeners and viewers. Number two, what is it? Roadblock?

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Oh, this is one is in their own way. Yeah,

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I think that one of the next one is an

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interesting one too. It's called the road roadblock of abandonment.

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And this is where we get into that, uh, the

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quiet quitting or as I call checkbox leadership. It's so

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hilarious to me that leadership and organizations got so upset

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a couple of years ago that employees were quiet quitting.

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They were just doing the job description. They were not

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doing anything more. Leaders have been doing this for years.

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They've been task managers because again we go back to

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being too busy. But they also don't know what those

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next steps are. And this kind of plays into our

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previous conversations about what a manager is versus what a

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leader is. And the jump into leadership involves beyond the checkbox. Okay,

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I did that today. I did that today. It's We're

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not a to do list. Humans are not to do lists.

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We're not a calendar. I'll give you an example this.

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I was at the Work Human Conference last year covering

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it as part of my podcast Relationships at Work, and

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it was really about what I'm learning, and I was

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writing about, you know, some of the great speakers they had,

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and working with a lot of the HR professionals that

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were there and getting to know them and their challenges.

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The most impactful thing that happened to me was overhearing

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a conversation. I was in the hallway and I was

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listening to and obviously an HR professional that was calling

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back to their office and speaking to their colleague, maybe

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their boss. I didn't know. She was going off about

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how amazing this conference were. These were my people. I

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feel so connect did, I'm learning so much, all great

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things until she got to that last sentence. And I

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have no idea what I'm going to do with it

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when I get back to the office. So from what

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I'm hearing, is her boss or her boss's boss said Hey,

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let's send somebody to a conference because it's leadership development.

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Quote unquote. Will we follow up when she gets back, nope?

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Will there be a learning plan with the information she provides? Nope?

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But look, we did leadership development check box.

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Okay.

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We fall into that so often of not doing anything

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more than what is the bare minimum required so we

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can call ourselves a leader and the organization can call

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ourselves a leader.

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Wow, that was an amazing story to illustrate that. Okay,

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next roadblock.

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Oh, sure, absolutely, the roadblock of deceit. This is where

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we have words not meeting the actions of the organization.

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We sure like putting values on a poster. Oh my goodness,

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we love putting them on a website, but we don't

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do anything with them. We don't use them in hiring,

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we don't use them to follow up in performance reviews.

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It's it's shocking how much what we say doesn't match

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the the conversation that we're having. And that goes back

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to my earlier point of a leader is Simon Sinek

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Brene Brown. These human, vulnerable leaders. But what we reward,

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what we promote? What we you know, the more work

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rewarded for more work that is completely different than what

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we're saying. And it happens all the time, I did

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an interview with a gentleman on my podcast who had

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a great story where they talked about he worked at

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Hershey's and they actually had a supervisors were given an allowance,

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given given a budget that they could reward staff every

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time they saw them exemplify the values of the organization.

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It was like Hershey Boxer, something that was really important

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within the organization, but it was the their feet hit

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the ground about what values looked like. And unfortunately in organizations,

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we're so busy talking about what ideals are, but we're

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not actually putting into practice what those look like, so

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that our own employees don't really know what it looks

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like to show up.

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Wow. So that's very powerful, this idea of just seat

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you know. So I think that's really just I think

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that's really important. In other words, walk the talk right

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and match sure your actions with your communication.

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Oh yeah, absolutely, And I would say communication is one

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of the strongest superpowers you can have as great or

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great communications as a great leader. And if you're communicating

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something that is not being followed up, trust is broken.

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Within that gap between what you say and what you do.

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Employees aren't dumb, they're sitting there going I can't trust

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you if I can't believe what the words coming out

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of your mouth, and I believe I believe that for

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a bad leader and for the organization.

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Yeah, yeah, this is a great Russell. What's next? What's

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the next roadblock? I'm loving this. I'ming all kinds of things.

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Another roadblock I find is the one for cowardice. And

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this is where leaders, and i'll put air quotes. Leaders

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are afraid of conflict. This is where they sit in

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their office. This is where they never walk another floor

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that doesn't exist where their office isn't. They don't build relationships.

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They are or if they hear something is happening it's bad,

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like oh we have some issues with one of your staff,

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they're like, oh, it'll work itself out, or they'll say

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that they they'll delegate that conflict resolution outside them themselves.

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They don't take anything on which is not relationship building.

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I remember talking to one executive where they were asking

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me like, how do I build relationships beyond the two

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people that come talk to me all the time? Leave

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your damn office Like he's it was literally complaining that

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the only people he got to talk to are his

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two admin's staff, and I'm like, whose fault is that

447
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that is yours? Go talk to somebody that doesn't have

448
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a lofty title like you sit in there cubicle. Ask

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them about their day, Ask them what they do for

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a living, Ask you know, what do they do in

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the organization. It's value to them. Like this is where

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00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:25.839
we get out of our comfort zones and actually put

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ourselves out in an environment that might be a conflict

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that might make us have to be vulnerable instead of

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this protective layer that a closed door provides for a leader.

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I have to tell a story that I don't think

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I've ever told on air in the ten years of

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an host in the show speaking of conflict at work.

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I worked let's see the late nineties, mid nineties in Portland, Oregon.

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At that time, I was selling I was working for

461
00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:54.400
this baking distributions. It was a flower company and it

462
00:24:54.440 --> 00:24:58.039
had a distribution side. When I was a sales manager

463
00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:01.720
for the Fisian side and I had a small sales

464
00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:04.200
team there. And the woman who hired me. At first

465
00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:05.839
she was she was great to work with, but then

466
00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:09.319
I really realized we had a major, major personality conflict.

467
00:25:09.359 --> 00:25:12.839
She really was just it was oil and water, and

468
00:25:12.920 --> 00:25:15.480
I mean, and she anytime that I did anything that

469
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:17.920
she didn't like, she she set up this set of

470
00:25:17.960 --> 00:25:20.559
barbs around and it was just so hard and overwhelming

471
00:25:20.559 --> 00:25:22.559
for me to work with her. But I liked working

472
00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:25.039
for the company and I just didn't know how to

473
00:25:25.079 --> 00:25:29.240
handle that conflict with her. And so I the company

474
00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:33.359
was headquartered in Seattle, Washington, and so I called her,

475
00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:36.680
emailed the president who I had some kind of a

476
00:25:36.680 --> 00:25:38.559
relationship with, and said, can I come and see you?

477
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:42.200
And I drove up to Seattle, and when I do

478
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:45.160
his office, had a conversation and I did what you

479
00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:47.640
know most women don't ever want to do. You know

480
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:51.319
what that is. I fell. I fell into a pile

481
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:53.119
of tears. As I've said, you know, I really love

482
00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:56.119
working here and I love what we're doing, but I

483
00:25:56.240 --> 00:25:58.319
just don't know how I can work for this woman,

484
00:25:58.440 --> 00:26:00.359
and I don't what, I don't know what I'll to do,

485
00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:03.200
and that's why I'm here. And then I started, you know,

486
00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:05.640
the tears came, and then he said, you know, give

487
00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:06.880
me a couple of weeks, let me see what I

488
00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:10.400
can do. And what he did, since kind of goes

489
00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:12.640
back to what you were saying before they didn't intervene

490
00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:15.359
with her because she really was harsh and very very

491
00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:19.680
very strong boundaries. What happened at the resolution of that conflict,

492
00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:23.359
Russell was, I got promoted to a bigger job in Seattle,

493
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:25.240
and so I and I got to come to my

494
00:26:25.480 --> 00:26:28.079
I want had a dream to live in Seattle. So

495
00:26:28.119 --> 00:26:30.359
it all happened. It all worked out really well. But

496
00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:33.640
we you know, so that one same leader who was

497
00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:37.559
toxic and you know, negative, nothing was done to help

498
00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:39.880
her get out of that. To your earlier point.

499
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:42.640
It worked out great for you, It didn't work out

500
00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:44.960
great for the organization, right right.

501
00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:48.359
Well, later on this organization actually went bankrupt. They didn't

502
00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:51.319
They went out of business on me. That isn't that funny?

503
00:26:51.319 --> 00:26:56.559
How those that? That seems to be an interesting huh. Anyway, Okay,

504
00:26:56.599 --> 00:26:57.640
what's the next roadblock?

505
00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:00.640
Oh? The next one I I think we're going to

506
00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:06.839
jump into. It's the roadblack of apathy is where there's

507
00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:10.000
a lack of follow up or any type of curiosity,

508
00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:15.720
where leaders will just make assumptions rather than digging below

509
00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:18.400
the surface. I love the term. There is an amazing

510
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:24.039
book called Manifesto for a Moral Revolution Jacqueline novograts. She

511
00:27:24.160 --> 00:27:26.799
talks about a thing called arrogant assumption. So I love

512
00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:29.279
framing it in that way, is that we will just

513
00:27:29.319 --> 00:27:33.759
make assumptions as leaders and then stick to it without

514
00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:37.559
any curiosity beyond that. For example, say you get a

515
00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:42.279
survey that doesn't provide you the answers that you want. Oh, well,

516
00:27:42.279 --> 00:27:44.599
that was just a moment in time. It'll be fine.

517
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:48.319
You're making an assumption that it is a symptom, not

518
00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:52.279
the disease. You're just looking at a point and making

519
00:27:52.279 --> 00:27:54.680
sure that that is not the bigger problem, because that's

520
00:27:54.720 --> 00:27:57.160
what you want to assume, because it makes your life easier.

521
00:27:58.880 --> 00:28:01.359
I remember talking to a group of executives and I

522
00:28:01.400 --> 00:28:04.440
was talking about the gap and the growing gap between

523
00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:09.279
what executives think and what leaders what employees know, Like

524
00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:12.079
there's and believe me, there's so many studies if you

525
00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:15.039
would want to google that out, is that there's this

526
00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:18.680
growing divide. And unfortunately, there was a leader in the

527
00:28:18.759 --> 00:28:20.839
room that said and cross their arms. What they did

528
00:28:20.839 --> 00:28:25.039
it love body language. That can't be true. That's not

529
00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:28.200
how I see things that that can't possibly be true.

530
00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:31.799
Thank goodness for the person beside them who was doing

531
00:28:31.880 --> 00:28:34.079
a quick google search and is like, uh, yeah, it's

532
00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:37.240
actually very very true, very very very very true. But

533
00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:40.599
if that person hadn't corrected them, that so called leader

534
00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:43.480
would have sat there in their assumptions, not been curious

535
00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:46.279
at all, and go, no, my way of thinking must

536
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:49.599
be right, because that's what I believe, because to believe

537
00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:53.000
otherwise makes it like I have to do work, like

538
00:28:53.119 --> 00:28:56.480
I have to do more than white quitting or checkbox

539
00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:00.920
leadership or management. Right. So it's it's a thing that

540
00:29:01.039 --> 00:29:04.640
just breaks my heart, and it happens over and over again.

541
00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:07.480
I remember talking to another executive and literally telling them

542
00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:10.960
that they weren't a safe space in a meeting. They

543
00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:12.799
weren't getting any feedback from me because they were not

544
00:29:12.880 --> 00:29:16.759
a safe space. It made the meeting extremely awkward because

545
00:29:16.759 --> 00:29:18.680
there were other people in the meeting besides this, for me,

546
00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:23.240
no follow up nothing. I never heard from that leader

547
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:26.200
again to follow up with a meeting, going so what

548
00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:28.200
did you mean by that? What can we work on?

549
00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:31.680
What's the opportunity here? Nothing? They just put their head

550
00:29:31.720 --> 00:29:33.720
in the sand and go, Okay, it's probably not what

551
00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:36.599
I believe, so it must not be true, moving out.

552
00:29:36.519 --> 00:29:39.160
Right right right? Oh my gosh, I totally want to

553
00:29:39.160 --> 00:29:40.960
come into that. But let's grab our last break. But

554
00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:43.240
I want to share one thing about that that's so fascinating.

555
00:29:44.000 --> 00:29:46.119
I'm your host, Doctor Relies Cortes Wood on the air

556
00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:49.279
with Russell Lolloker, who has held successful leadership and communication

557
00:29:49.359 --> 00:29:52.079
roles for almost twenty five years. His work has been

558
00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:55.400
recognized on your national stages because he's that good. We've

559
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:57.319
been talking a bit about some of the roadblocks that

560
00:29:57.359 --> 00:29:59.359
get in our own way as leaders. After the break,

561
00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:01.119
we're going to cover more. Be right back.

562
00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:19.799
Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

563
00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:23.680
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies

564
00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:27.559
visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

565
00:30:27.640 --> 00:30:31.599
leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

566
00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:34.880
commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

567
00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:37.640
a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her

568
00:30:37.720 --> 00:30:40.960
at Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

569
00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:49.759
your employees working on purpose. This is working on purpose

570
00:30:49.880 --> 00:30:53.160
with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or

571
00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:55.960
to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to

572
00:30:56.039 --> 00:31:00.920
Elise A. L. I se at Elisecortes dot com. Now

573
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:02.799
back to working on Purpose.

574
00:31:08.279 --> 00:31:10.519
Inkteresting with this and welcome back to working on Purpose.

575
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:12.960
I'm your host, Doctor Release Cortes. I mentioned in the

576
00:31:13.039 --> 00:31:15.160
last break that my latest book came out called a

577
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:18.000
Great Revialization. What I did for you as I created

578
00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:20.680
a three page simple assessment that's sitting on my website

579
00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:23.759
at gustodeshnow dot com, and that will help you understand

580
00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:26.000
the extent to which you are meeting the standards of

581
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:29.039
today's discerning workforce. It'll give you twenty two of those

582
00:31:29.079 --> 00:31:32.039
best projects so you can evaluate against them if you

583
00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:34.480
are just now joining us. My guest is Russell Lolloker.

584
00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:37.039
He's an international speaker and the host and producer of

585
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:40.319
the Relationships at Work podcast, the guide to building workplace

586
00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:43.960
connection and avoiding leadership blind Spots. So what I wanted

587
00:31:43.960 --> 00:31:47.119
to comment on this idea of apathy. This is so interesting.

588
00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:49.440
I am my next guest that I'm coming that's coming

589
00:31:49.480 --> 00:31:53.039
on my podcast. Her name is Amana Morales and she's

590
00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:57.200
written a book called The Flexibility Paradigm, and essentially what

591
00:31:57.279 --> 00:32:00.720
she's talking about, she's advocating for, you know, obviously flexible

592
00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:03.279
work arrangements to be able to accommodate more of the

593
00:32:03.319 --> 00:32:06.680
workforce and allow their whole lives to work. And she

594
00:32:06.960 --> 00:32:09.559
makes such a great point back to your apathy piece

595
00:32:09.559 --> 00:32:13.119
of where she's talking with leaders. They're like, well, what

596
00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:15.640
are you talking about? Everything works fine around here and

597
00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:20.079
so and she was saying an example of, well, you know,

598
00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:21.559
the only way for me to get this one assignment

599
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:24.000
done was if I actually took it home and did it,

600
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:26.359
you know, during the course of the evening. And so

601
00:32:26.359 --> 00:32:28.000
I brought it up to my boss that while this

602
00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:30.599
might be kind of hard for me, It's like, what

603
00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:32.119
do you mean, just go home and do the assignment.

604
00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:35.079
And she said, well, I actually have a family that

605
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:37.000
I'm going to be cooking for and reading too and

606
00:32:37.039 --> 00:32:38.720
bathing and putting to bed, and then I would like

607
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:40.880
to actually connect with my partner at some point as well.

608
00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:45.200
And she says, who does those things for you? I mean,

609
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:48.319
she said, my wife. Well, I don't have a wife.

610
00:32:49.240 --> 00:32:52.599
So this idea that my world, in whatever my world is,

611
00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:55.680
is everybody else's world, I think that is a screaming

612
00:32:55.799 --> 00:32:57.960
mess all the time for people that they're so stuck

613
00:32:58.000 --> 00:32:59.960
in their own minds as this is how the work

614
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:02.319
world works, because it's the way my world works, and

615
00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:06.480
is disastrous for people who are actually trying to be

616
00:33:06.519 --> 00:33:07.920
effective as leaders.

617
00:33:09.880 --> 00:33:13.920
Couldn't agree more. I it's they're stuck in their own bubble.

618
00:33:13.960 --> 00:33:16.160
And it also comes back to that whole I'm too

619
00:33:16.240 --> 00:33:20.279
busy because and I don't have the capacity to learn

620
00:33:20.319 --> 00:33:23.200
about my teams, learn about my other leaders I'm responsible for.

621
00:33:24.680 --> 00:33:27.039
It's such a crutch to lean on. But then again,

622
00:33:27.079 --> 00:33:29.480
we then call these people leaders when they're not. They

623
00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:32.519
don't have the capacity, they're not doing the characteristics that

624
00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:33.599
we know to be leaders.

625
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:37.119
Right, Yeah, I love this, Russell. Okay, out of lost count,

626
00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:40.279
we're which which how many of these have we gone through? Pods?

627
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:42.640
I do the same thing. No, we've got five, We've

628
00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:43.279
got two more to go.

629
00:33:43.400 --> 00:33:45.839
Okay, let's hit them. Let's hit them. Well, let's hit

630
00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:46.839
your blind spots.

631
00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:50.079
Let's hit the one that I think moves very easily

632
00:33:50.119 --> 00:33:53.160
into the conversation we just had, which is the roadblock

633
00:33:53.200 --> 00:33:57.920
of confusion. We're talking about cognitive dissonance. This is where

634
00:33:58.039 --> 00:34:02.359
leaders know something is a problem, but do things anyway.

635
00:34:03.720 --> 00:34:07.160
I'll tell you this, it's a matter of not going

636
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:10.440
below the surface. It does lead into curiosity, but it's

637
00:34:10.480 --> 00:34:15.119
also this deflection because it's not their experience within the organization.

638
00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:19.599
I remember talking to a colleague about my experience with

639
00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:24.480
a horrible leader, and I'm looking for compassion, I'm looking

640
00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:27.920
for empathy. I'm looking for some sort of even just

641
00:34:28.039 --> 00:34:31.719
listening at this point. But my colleague, who I adore

642
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:34.760
and love them as a person, I've never been led

643
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:36.480
by them, so I don't know if they're good leaders

644
00:34:36.559 --> 00:34:38.679
or not. That's the one thing. We can't just assume

645
00:34:38.840 --> 00:34:41.360
good people are good leaders. But he came back to

646
00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:44.280
me and said, that's not my experience. They've been great

647
00:34:44.280 --> 00:34:48.239
with me. So they dismissed everything I had set up

648
00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:51.280
to that point because we go back to my original story.

649
00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:53.519
They got me what I wanted when I wanted it,

650
00:34:53.679 --> 00:34:56.440
so they must be a great leader. So my experience

651
00:34:56.480 --> 00:34:59.920
can't be validated, it can't have any residents because it's

652
00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:04.400
not the experience they've had. So the story they're telling

653
00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:07.679
in their mind is one even if they've heard it

654
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:09.760
from their people. They're like, I've heard that, but it

655
00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:12.440
can't be as bad as people think because it's not

656
00:35:12.599 --> 00:35:16.440
my experience. So that hurts and undervalues. A lot of

657
00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:19.679
employees who want to be vulnerable, want to be honest,

658
00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:23.159
want to share their experiences, and then find this brick

659
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:26.840
wall from so called leaders because no, it can't be

660
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:29.800
true because it's just not my experienced.

661
00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:31.719
You know, I have to weigh on that one too, Russell,

662
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:33.719
This is so amazing. I love this conversation. You just

663
00:35:33.760 --> 00:35:37.039
can't go away as my one of my major major

664
00:35:37.159 --> 00:35:39.800
pet peeves and heartbreaks in the world of work. And

665
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:42.239
what I get to do helping organizations build their cultures

666
00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:44.960
and their teams is I see all the time and

667
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:50.280
I know you do too, where a manager will say, well,

668
00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:53.280
so and so, Russell, you know, he's just he's just

669
00:35:53.679 --> 00:35:55.880
you know, he's just a bad news guy. You know,

670
00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:58.079
he just he just you can't do anything with Russell's.

671
00:35:58.519 --> 00:36:01.079
And they put this label on on these people who

672
00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:05.199
say the non performer, not good, don't promote kind of thing,

673
00:36:05.800 --> 00:36:08.280
and then that gets picked up and passed around and

674
00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:11.719
conveyed to various people, and pretty soon this person now

675
00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:14.880
has this big target on them as you know, not promotable,

676
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:18.320
not good, whatever, when in reality it's just a reflection

677
00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:22.840
of their unique relationship wherein if that person went to

678
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:25.320
somebody else, reported to somebody else, they could be it

679
00:36:25.719 --> 00:36:29.079
showed entirely differently and better. And that's this happened to

680
00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:31.360
me many times where I've been told, oh, don't hire

681
00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:34.639
this person there are they are awful, and I've hired

682
00:36:34.639 --> 00:36:37.199
them and the person's working with me. Now, Lydia, that's you.

683
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:40.400
It's just a rock star. She's just a rock star.

684
00:36:40.719 --> 00:36:43.840
And so it's so important that we are that we

685
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:47.639
are aware of how we're labeling people and how we're

686
00:36:47.679 --> 00:36:50.159
seeing and relating to our people. Just so important.

687
00:36:50.679 --> 00:36:52.960
I remember also talking to a leader who is responsible

688
00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:55.679
to a board, and I was sitting down with that leader,

689
00:36:55.719 --> 00:36:57.519
I think, yeah, and then they were saying how that

690
00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:00.880
board was horrible, they were impossible to get through. They

691
00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:03.599
didn't listen to any ideas, and I'm like, who talks

692
00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:06.920
to the board? Well, I do nobody else. No, maybe

693
00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:11.079
it's a you thing. Maybe you're the problem, not the board,

694
00:37:11.119 --> 00:37:15.159
because there's seven different individuals. You're one person. I see

695
00:37:15.159 --> 00:37:19.360
the common denominator here being you. But that comes to

696
00:37:19.519 --> 00:37:23.519
self awareness, that comes to situational awareness. But yeah, I

697
00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:26.400
find that and I myself as well. To your point,

698
00:37:26.679 --> 00:37:30.760
I've had some people labeled problems and I've had them.

699
00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:33.880
I'm like, they're phenomenal. They just need to be listened to.

700
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:36.519
They need to be led, not managed. Which back to

701
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:37.360
our earlier point.

702
00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:40.559
Mm hmm, so good. Okay, do we get a mall?

703
00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:41.320
Or is there one more?

704
00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:42.639
One more, one more.

705
00:37:42.760 --> 00:37:44.280
Let's get it.

706
00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:50.360
It's it's the roadblock of irresponsibility. We talk about responsibility

707
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:52.800
in the workplace a lot, and we can see it

708
00:37:52.840 --> 00:37:55.840
in a job description. These are the things I'm responsible for.

709
00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:58.199
Sure leadership will be in there, but it seems like

710
00:37:58.280 --> 00:38:01.920
a keyword exercise and actually defining what leadership is within

711
00:38:01.960 --> 00:38:05.119
the job description. So where this roadblock exists is in

712
00:38:05.159 --> 00:38:09.760
the lack of accountability responsibility. Sure, we know what our

713
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:11.920
job is, we know what we have to deliver, but

714
00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:14.880
are we accountable to the results? Are we accountable to

715
00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:18.159
the people that we as leaders are responsible for? And

716
00:38:18.199 --> 00:38:20.760
where I see this being most impactful when it comes

717
00:38:20.800 --> 00:38:24.239
to leadership and leadership ecosystems being broken, is that we

718
00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:27.719
will identify bad leaders. We're very quick to going, hey,

719
00:38:28.039 --> 00:38:30.960
they're a problem, they need to be worked on. Their

720
00:38:31.039 --> 00:38:34.960
staff will say so, but we never look at their boss,

721
00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:38.960
the person that hired them. The person that was responsible

722
00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:42.480
for coaching and mentoring them, the person that had performance

723
00:38:42.519 --> 00:38:46.800
reviews with them quarterly, yearly. However, why are they not

724
00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:51.320
held accountable for the horrible leader that they allowed perpetuate,

725
00:38:51.800 --> 00:38:56.079
they allowed to hurt the culture. Instead we go bad leader.

726
00:38:56.280 --> 00:38:58.280
We need to get rid of the bad leader. No,

727
00:38:58.599 --> 00:39:02.599
that's a symptom, not the disease. The disease is how

728
00:39:02.679 --> 00:39:07.079
is that person brought in given that responsibility, not kept

729
00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:10.960
in check, not coach, not mentored, And yet we want

730
00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:15.920
to focus on the easy fix rather than the accountability problem.

731
00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:18.840
So so good, Russell. In fact, I will say I'm

732
00:39:18.920 --> 00:39:21.519
so proud. There are a few people that I've coached

733
00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:24.840
for years and gotten to see them that really developed

734
00:39:24.880 --> 00:39:29.280
their careers. And in most of the cases they have

735
00:39:29.719 --> 00:39:32.000
shared with me over the years of how they have

736
00:39:32.039 --> 00:39:35.159
gotten a new employee, and they've been able to give

737
00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:38.960
them some very specific feedback, constructive feedback about their performance

738
00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:41.119
and where there's gaps and where their opportunities for them

739
00:39:41.159 --> 00:39:43.880
to grow. And where it gets really interesting is what

740
00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:48.119
their their feedback. Their constant feedback is what what are

741
00:39:48.159 --> 00:39:50.599
you talking about? No one has ever told me that before.

742
00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:53.119
In other words, it can't be true because nobody else

743
00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:56.639
has ever told told me that. Well, actually it is true.

744
00:39:56.719 --> 00:39:58.679
No one else ever had the courage or the skills

745
00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:00.800
to tell you that, or care to enough to tell you.

746
00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:03.760
So I just there's so much that goes into as

747
00:40:03.800 --> 00:40:05.800
it's just so good. And you know, as you know, Russell,

748
00:40:05.880 --> 00:40:07.840
I believe in the world of work. That's why I'm

749
00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:12.079
an organizational psychologist. It's the playground of life. And yet

750
00:40:12.199 --> 00:40:14.440
there's so much we can do to improve the experience

751
00:40:14.440 --> 00:40:17.400
for everyone. I love these these blind spots that you've

752
00:40:17.400 --> 00:40:19.119
been sharing with us. This is this. I think this

753
00:40:19.159 --> 00:40:22.400
really helps our listeners and viewers get a much better understanding.

754
00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:24.280
But what do we mean by management? What do we

755
00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:30.039
mean by leadership? What does it actually take? Greatness? Okay,

756
00:40:30.039 --> 00:40:31.960
so we have just a few more minutes here left

757
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:33.639
on and I just want to be able to hit

758
00:40:33.639 --> 00:40:37.000
a few of these ingredients to trust driven leadership that

759
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:38.920
you've mentioned that you want to talk about. So let's

760
00:40:38.920 --> 00:40:41.000
hear about a few of those and then we'll be

761
00:40:41.119 --> 00:40:42.440
done here in about five minutes.

762
00:40:42.639 --> 00:40:45.920
Oh all good. I think the thing is is that

763
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:48.559
if you want to build actual relationships, trust needs to

764
00:40:48.599 --> 00:40:52.280
be the DNA in which must operate, have to have

765
00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:55.159
to and yet we treat it like it's another when

766
00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:58.440
we get into the workplace, like the ingredients to building

767
00:40:58.480 --> 00:41:01.480
trust with your friends and family is somehow this different

768
00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:05.320
strategic plan initiative. Once we turn on a computer or

769
00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:10.039
walk through a door, it's the same damn thing. It's

770
00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:13.119
are you being true to your word? Is what back

771
00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:16.000
to my you know sins and roadblocks earlier? Are what

772
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:19.639
you say matching your actions in the workplace? Are you

773
00:41:19.719 --> 00:41:23.599
communicating effectively? Are you building it over time? Because trust

774
00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:25.559
is not built in a day. It is a long

775
00:41:25.719 --> 00:41:28.559
game that we have to build as leaders every single day.

776
00:41:28.760 --> 00:41:33.239
Trust is built in moments, not in grand gestures. Are

777
00:41:33.239 --> 00:41:36.719
we consistent? That's a huge piece is are we the

778
00:41:36.760 --> 00:41:39.800
same person on Tuesday that we are on Wednesday? And

779
00:41:39.880 --> 00:41:42.800
in how we interact with other people? Are we making

780
00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:45.880
an effort? Are we being honest and transparent or making

781
00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:48.119
an effort to help people? Like these are ingredients that

782
00:41:48.159 --> 00:41:51.199
you would ask people you know, you would demand of

783
00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:54.280
a friend of yours, instead of people that are asking

784
00:41:54.320 --> 00:41:57.000
you to call you instead of wanting something like most

785
00:41:57.039 --> 00:41:58.760
leaders are, I want you to do something. I want

786
00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:01.519
you to do this, How can I help you? What can

787
00:42:01.559 --> 00:42:04.199
I do to create an environment for you? It's just

788
00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:07.599
it's this weird. Trust is another when it comes to

789
00:42:07.639 --> 00:42:10.239
the workplace that I really think we have to get

790
00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:12.039
rid of and go. Have you ever made a friend,

791
00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:15.480
but you have you ever made any connection in your life? Well,

792
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:18.920
what skills did you bring? What intention did you bring

793
00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:23.119
in that day to day long term relationship building? Bring

794
00:42:23.239 --> 00:42:25.760
that to work. Stop looking at it as a check

795
00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:30.000
box exercise, you know, actually put effort into it. And

796
00:42:30.039 --> 00:42:31.800
the one thing I want to also flip on that

797
00:42:32.360 --> 00:42:34.800
is that we talk about trust like it's all encompassing

798
00:42:34.840 --> 00:42:38.000
and a good thing. Trust can also be bad. I've

799
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:40.280
had leaders where I trust them not to have my back,

800
00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:43.320
I trust them not to champion me, I trust them

801
00:42:43.400 --> 00:42:47.079
not to support me, and that is also trust, But

802
00:42:47.199 --> 00:42:49.480
it is certainly not the direction we want to go.

803
00:42:49.719 --> 00:42:52.000
And that's where we have to be intention and actually

804
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:52.920
real leaders here.

805
00:42:54.760 --> 00:42:57.119
You know. It's just I'm working with the origination right now,

806
00:42:57.119 --> 00:42:59.360
helping them because they've got some trust issues, and it's

807
00:42:59.400 --> 00:43:00.159
so amazing.

808
00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:00.360
Right.

809
00:43:00.480 --> 00:43:04.559
Trust is the great delineator of results, right, I mean,

810
00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:06.079
if we got if we can do, if we've got

811
00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:08.519
the trust, we can do all kinds of things, and

812
00:43:08.599 --> 00:43:11.480
it's so interesting. Once it's gone, it's like it's just

813
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:13.719
like it's gone, and so finding a way to get

814
00:43:13.719 --> 00:43:15.800
it back and that's been some of my most interesting

815
00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:19.159
precious work wrestles, getting to work with organizations to bring

816
00:43:19.159 --> 00:43:22.000
them together or I can help broker the conversation around

817
00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:24.880
where did it fall apart? How do I, why do

818
00:43:24.920 --> 00:43:26.559
I feel the way that I do, and what can

819
00:43:26.599 --> 00:43:29.159
we do to try to get it back on track? Oh,

820
00:43:29.239 --> 00:43:31.679
and it's hard, and sometimes it takes, you know, getting

821
00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:34.880
somebody who's either a third party or somebody else that

822
00:43:35.480 --> 00:43:38.239
isn't as vested in the outcome as as the team

823
00:43:38.280 --> 00:43:41.159
itself is to help bring that together. And it's some

824
00:43:41.199 --> 00:43:42.880
of the most precious work I've ever gotten to do.

825
00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:47.199
I totally agree, And I think we also need to

826
00:43:47.239 --> 00:43:49.639
look beyond what we trust in front of ourselves. And

827
00:43:49.679 --> 00:43:52.280
that's where the curiosity comes in, because some leaders will go,

828
00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:54.559
I can trust them, they're a rock star. Do you

829
00:43:54.599 --> 00:43:57.559
know what they're sacrificing to deliver what you want? Do

830
00:43:57.599 --> 00:44:00.440
you know how much burnout they're dealing with? Right Rightsting

831
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:03.960
them for delivery, You're not knowing the person and they'll

832
00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:07.039
probably leave or have some serious mental health issues if

833
00:44:07.039 --> 00:44:08.440
we don't dig a little deeper.

834
00:44:08.840 --> 00:44:10.599
Yeah, and then that's when we get to surprise. And

835
00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:14.440
what do you mean you're leaving? Yeah? Exactly. So Russell

836
00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:17.119
has been a complete delight to have you on this podcast,

837
00:44:17.199 --> 00:44:18.480
and it's so great to have me on the other

838
00:44:18.559 --> 00:44:20.239
mic with you, other end of the mic with you.

839
00:44:20.599 --> 00:44:23.239
Thank you for coming on, working in purpose fast, last

840
00:44:23.239 --> 00:44:25.239
few pearls here, seeing thirty seconds you want to close

841
00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:25.639
the show with.

842
00:44:26.320 --> 00:44:28.960
I think, if anything, I can impart as a leader.

843
00:44:29.000 --> 00:44:31.559
I love leaders. They're just not provided the training and

844
00:44:31.599 --> 00:44:34.119
development they need, and they're thrown in to do way

845
00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:36.880
too much, way too quickly. I think, if anything, the

846
00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:39.880
first step is any good leader is self awareness. I

847
00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:42.320
think if you know yourself and how you show up

848
00:44:42.320 --> 00:44:45.239
and how you handle emotions, how you build relationships, the

849
00:44:45.239 --> 00:44:48.239
better you know yourself is the best foundation you can

850
00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:49.400
start to being a better leader.

851
00:44:49.639 --> 00:44:52.920
Amen, brother, So with you, what a delight, Russell, So

852
00:44:53.480 --> 00:44:55.360
glad to know you. Listeners and viewers, you're also going

853
00:44:55.400 --> 00:44:56.639
to want to know this man. So I'm going to

854
00:44:56.639 --> 00:44:58.440
send you to two different websites for you to check

855
00:44:58.480 --> 00:45:00.280
him out. You can go to his personal se It's

856
00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:03.400
Russell Lollocker. Let me spell that for you. It's Russell

857
00:45:03.519 --> 00:45:07.960
with one L are U S s E L Lollocker

858
00:45:08.199 --> 00:45:11.119
l O L A c h E R Russell Lollocker

859
00:45:11.239 --> 00:45:16.559
dot com one L or his podcast is Relationship Relationships

860
00:45:16.599 --> 00:45:19.599
at workshow dot com. Either way you can find him there,

861
00:45:19.679 --> 00:45:21.800
check them out. Thanks for joining us, and see you

862
00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:24.639
next week for another inspiring episode. And remember, work is

863
00:45:24.679 --> 00:45:26.760
one of the best adventures and means of realizing our

864
00:45:26.760 --> 00:45:29.639
potential and making the impact we crave. So let's work

865
00:45:29.679 --> 00:45:30.199
on Purpose.

866
00:45:33.280 --> 00:45:35.920
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to

867
00:45:35.960 --> 00:45:39.599
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,

868
00:45:39.719 --> 00:45:43.039
each week on W four CY. Together we'll create a

869
00:45:43.079 --> 00:45:47.719
world where business operates conscientiously, leadership inspires and passion performance,

870
00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:50.559
and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning

871
00:45:50.599 --> 00:45:54.400
and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work on Purpose.