The Renaissance Woman Helping People Work from Purpose

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What's working on purpose anyway? Each
week we ponder the answer to this question.

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People ache for meaning and purpose at
work, to contribute their talents passionately

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and know their lives really matter.
They crave being part of an organization that

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inspires them and helps them grow into
realizing their highest potential. Business can be

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such a force for good in the
world, elevating humanity. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration to help
usher in this world we all want

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Working on purpose. Now Here is
your host, Doctor Elise Cortez. Welcome

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back to the Working on Purpose Program. Thanks for tuning in again this week.

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I'm your host, doctor Elis Cortez, joining you live from Dallas,

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Texas, which is home based from
by way of introduction, I'm a management

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consultant. I specialize in meaning and
purpose. I'm an organizational lawal therapist,

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social scientist and author. If you've
been tuning in for a while, you

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know this program as a thought leadership
series that enlightens, inspires listeners with insights

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from distinguished business leaders, authors and
subject matter experts. And by listening in,

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you're part of the movement to create
inspirational leaders who make work a place

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we can thrive and organizations that better
the world. Glad you're here. Our

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guest today is Joanne Hayman. She's
the founder and CEO of Hayman Partners.

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Is widely recognized as a transformative force
for good, bringing a mission driven focus

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to institutions across sectors, cultures,
and countries. I affectionately refer to as

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the modern renaissance woman as She's also
served as the founding executive director of the

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Urban Zen Foundation and has also served
as the executive director of the International Center

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in New York, vice president of
the Corporations of Yado, and Managing director

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of the Financial Services Volunteer Corps,
and as a senior advisor to the Golden

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Sax Foundation and the American Jewish World
Service, among many other distinguishing endeavors.

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To join you today from New York
City, Johanna, Welcome to Working on

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Purpose. Thank you so much.
At least I can't tell you how much

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I've been looking forward to this conversation. You know, it's just great when

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I meet really amazing like minded souls
from across the globe who are doing amazing

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things to lift up humanity, make
the world a better place, increase fulfillment

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and just have fun in the process. Absolutely having fun in the process.

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Yeah. Well, so let's also
celebrate you. You have the glorious distinction

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Joanna of being episode number three hundred
on working on Purpose. How cool is

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that? Wow? Lucky three hundred. Right, let's do something with that.

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Okay, So to get started here, so our guests, fore yours

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understand why I call you a renaissance
woman. Tell us a little bit about

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your background and kind of where you
come from, just briefly, what makes

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you you some of those things.
Thank you, and I so appreciate the

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very kind label of renaissance woman.
Myself as an omnivore, which may be

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a little bit closer given my appetites. You know, at least I am.

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I'm a very curious person who is
interested in and enjoys many, many

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different things. And when I look
back at my career path and what led

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me to it, it wasn't a
grand plan, it wasn't a scheme all

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laid out. It was really following
opportunity and passion and desire throughout the course

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of my education and my career.
I think I combined that curiosity with a

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decent enough appetite for risk, and
so have been able to move through a

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career that was not only really rewarding, but ended up creating building blocks that

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led me to where I am now. So I started off thinking that I

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was going to be a lawyer,
got to college, was introduced to a

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literature course that blew my mind,
and I didn't actually realize that one could

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spend a lot of time in school
picking apart text, and so we sort

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of delved into literature. Had a
chance to live overseas, and the early

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part of my career was about this
kind of international exploration and text exploration,

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and I spent a lot of time
working working in development, went back and

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got a graduate degree in international political
economy, and so got to exercise a

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lot of these kind of questions and
passions and connections that were very meaningful the

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first twenty five years of my career. So please nobody do the math here,

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But the twenty five years of my
career was all in not for profit

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organizations and philanthropic institutions, and so
I'm very much wired as a mission driven

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person and had the opportunity to get
in on the ground floor of some great

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organizations or to participate in some turnarounds. So I spent twenty five years in

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senior management, probably when I shouldn't
have been, but it was just kind

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of the way the place that I
landed, and so learned an awful lot

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about what it takes to design and
deliver programming and to grow an organization that

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can have a sustained impact. And
having been a first executive director in some

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places, a turnaround specialist in others, I looked back and said, Okay,

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there's a lot of experience here in
this pro social sector, but I

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want to work and live differently.
And so, speaking of anniversaries, Hayman

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Partners opened its virtual doors on November
one, twenty ten. So I'm about

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to celebrate my tenth anniversary on Sunday, and I kind of looked at the

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aggregate of everything I learned and done
and observed in twenty five years and said,

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how can I continue to be of
service, but to do it in

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a different way. And so I
created Hayman Partners as a consulting practice to

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try to bring that collected experience and
perspective and to do it and sit next

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to somebody who was doing the same
thing. So rose sort of at their

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right hand I had the good fortune
during this transition of meeting a woman who

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became my coach, and so I
saw up close and personal the power of

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coaching. So for the past ten
years, after having gone through a training

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program with her company, I've been
able to weave together the consulting and coaching

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in a way that I believe could
be truly beneficial to individuals and teams as

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they go out in the world and
try to do something extraordinary that was breathtaking

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and stunning to win. Thank you
for a great start. Wow, and

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listeners, if you were think about
that, right, how can you take

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your full sum total person and bring
that into the world and be of the

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highest value and have great golfic upon
at the same time. I mean,

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that's what we're going for here.
So on a way to start. So,

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I don't know if you can do
this or not too I'm a try.

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I just wanted to see if you
could take a few of the pearls,

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some of the things that you hold
from your study or your resources that

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you think particularly inform the way you
do your work. Absolutely, So,

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I don't want to overdo the talk
about curiosity. It's such an important thread,

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but there are a number of resources
that I draw that are both textual

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and their practices and their people.
So I am a yoga practitioner and I

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meditate, so there's a lot in
terms of contemplative practices that I bring to

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my work, which really helps me
with noticing and listening and paying attention both

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to myself and to whomever I'm working
with, and to also encourage them to

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do the same. I'm also constantly
reading there. I can't even list the

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number of extraordinary writers and thinkers who
I tap into on a regular basis.

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But there is a school of management
that you may be familiar with called adaptive

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leadership that I am very much enamored
with and and try to tease out a

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number of the most accessible practices and
make those available to my clients. I

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also went through my friend Seth Godin's
All to MBA program a number of years

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ago, which is amazing and if
you've got got enough thirst to drink from

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a fire hose, I highly recommend
it. And it was just, you

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know, an entryway to yet another
large number of thinkers and writers and practices.

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So I'm very happy to list them, you know, after the show

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and people can see some of my
favorites. But I think that this adaptive

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leadership, the contemplate practices, and
then a resource that I draw on a

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lot is parenting. So and I'm
very fortunate that I've raised my children with

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my with my husband, who's an
extraordinary parent, and there's so much we

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learned from our children. There's so
much that we learn in trying to help

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shape them and and do do what
good coaches do, which is not always

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tell you what to do, but
help you figure out what you want to

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do. And so I use that
as a touchstone in my own work and

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encourage others to do the same as
well. Joan is gorgeous and Eyeline on

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so much of that too. There's
a reason I continue hosting this radio show

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because I'm also feeding my voracious appetite
to learn and grow and remain curious.

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So I get a lot of what
you were saying. Okay, so next,

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let's dive into for listeners of yours
that don't really understand what we mean

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by transformational growth, I'd like to
hear your definition of that first, you

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would, sure, so for me, transformational growth isn't about just solving a

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problem or acquiring a skill, it's
becoming the person or organization you are meant

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to be. I love that mean
too, That's what I call it too.

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Okay, So why this space?
You and I are working in the

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same camp. Why this We're not
aeronautical engineers, we're not marketing store nears.

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I guess we kind of ore really
we're not accountant and we are not

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too, but we're we're in transformational
growth. Why this space? You know?

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I feel that the world is calling
us to be in this space.

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This was even pre COVID, and
we can talk about what the COVID moment

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is asking of all of us.
But I think for many people, and

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I don't want to be really clear
here, at least for people who are

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in a position to make choices.
And not everybody can make choices about their

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career in their life, but for
those people who are in that very fortunate

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position to make choices, for transformational
growth is the opportunity to really step into

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your purpose. And and also I
want to be really cleared if you don't

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all know what our purposes all the
time, right, it's not as the

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business saying this are like stuck to
our forehead and we're like, oh yeah,

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just look in the mirror and it's
there. It requires some work to

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get there, but I think at
least I am in this space because if

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you're going to do the work to
the work that matters, work smart,

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work, well, work for something
that has meaning and sustainability that's bigger than

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you, Well, let's do grab
what you just said. What is COVID

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calling of us. I think it's
calling us to be nimble, to be

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open, to be okay with not
having the answers. There's no playbook for

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this. And I'm not talking about
the extraordinary scientists and others who are working

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for QUE. I'm talking about not
having answers as either as individuals or as

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leaders in companies or leaders of our
own lives. I think it's saying,

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get comfortable with not knowing the answer, Get comfortable with trying some things and

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seeing how they work. Suspend judgment, see how things go, and also

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listen in a way maybe we haven't
listened before to other people. We observe

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what is going on, how you
know, how is your team doing,

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how is your family doing? Don't
make any assumptions, ask questions, and

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so it's creating an opportunity for stronger
bridges to be built if we're willing to

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do the work beautiful. I love
that. I'm completely aligned with that,

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Joan. Okay, so now I'm
willing to bend that. A lot of

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people who are actually listening to this, are watching this, are on because

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they want to understand the possibility of
going from a job to working from purpose.

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And so you have a lot of
your work focus on helping people transition

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from jobs to work a purpose.
And so I don't know what when you

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talk about jobs, what you mean
by that, if that's a job or

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something else. But why this particular
work. Why go from a job which

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is probably great for a lot of
people to working from purpose. It's a

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great question, and I'm going to
give you an answer. I don't know

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if this is what you are anticipating. You might stay in the same job

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and still work from purpose. Yes, ma'am. It's not just about saying,

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oh, go get a better job, go do that thing. You

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might find that thinking about the work
you do differently and having that unbelievably important

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mindset shift can get you into purpose
where you are not always. There may

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be those times when, yes,
shifting a position a company and industry is

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what is in order or it may
be, how do you take a step

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back and say, what am I
really doing here? How am I showing

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up? Am I making the kind
of contribution that I'm capable of? And

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so working from purpose is not just
or only about changing the external environment,

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It's changing the internal environment. Agreed, Agreed completely. I have to quickly

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share with you because you've just brought
this up here so right. That attitude,

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that internal mindset change is so important. My research on modes of engagement,

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which I found fifteen modes of engagement
when I looked at levels of meaning

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and how the work either informed or
detracted from the person. In my research,

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I interviewed a chef who interviewed him
Joanne. During the course of the

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ninety minute conversation, he fell into
tears five times. He was so miserable

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in his work. He hated his
job, he hated his boss, who

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was screaming. He felt like,
my I'm working all the times when my

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family isn't. I worked Friday and
Saturday and night. I'm stuck in this

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strug because I make a lot of
money and I've got to pay my ex

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wife. I mean, he just
was It was awful. He was in

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the least possible mode that you could
experience full film and actually negatively impacting his

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identity called existential crisis. So you
can imagine how I felt when I thought

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about I'm gonna part of my design
was I have to come back and share,

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you know, the results with these
people and see if they agree with

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my assessment of how they were doing
at the time. And that was it

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was part of my you know,
my collaboration and check process. So I

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was not looking forward to the call
with this guy. Mean, who do

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you do you want to tell somebody? Look, you're an existential crisis.

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So the call ca and he and
he goes, at least, I'm so

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glad to hear from you. I've
gone from from exogygrissis all the way up

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to conflicted fit. I'm such a
better place, he goes. He goes,

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here's what happened, he goes.
After you shared the transcript would be

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in my interview, I shared with
my wife and my mom, who sobbed

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when they read it because they had
no idea how badly I felt. And

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so they changed their connection with me
and their support of me. And I

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began to see, look, you
know, my boss is still going to

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be a jerk, He's still going
to yell at me. I'm still gonna

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have the same crappy hours. But
you know what, I make a lot

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of money and I can send my
kids to college, and they think where

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I work is pretty cool, so
they're proud of me. So even though

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he was not really in a fulfilled
place, still he was doing the right

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work, but in the wrong place. He only changed how he was connected

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to his work and as his experients, and it was just from his mindset,

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just like you were saying, I'm
so powerful, right, so powerful.

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So we are sisters from a different
different mother, I'm sure of it.

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But let's grab our first break.
I'm Elise Cortez with her on New

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York Joanne Hayman. She is the
founder and CEO of Hayman Partners and is

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widely recognized as a as a transformative
force for good, bringing a mission driven

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focused to institutions across sectors, cultures, and countries. Jing today from New

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York City, we've been talking about
how it is she got into this camp.

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Now she brings her full person to
it. After the break, we're

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going to talk more about some of
the tools and messages that she uses in

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her work to bring her people wholly
alive. Stay with us, We'll be

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right back. Doctor Release Cortez is
a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose

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and inspirational speaker and author. She
helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders

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and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning
infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,

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and commitment within the workforce. To
learn more or to invite a Lease to

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speak to your organization, please visit
her at a Lease Cortez dot com.

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Let's talk about how to get your
employees working on purpose. This is working

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00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:10.599
on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortez.
To reach our program today or open a

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00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:17.359
conversation with Elise and send an email
to Elise ali Se at Elise Cortez dot

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00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:29.400
com. Now back to working on
purpose. Thanks foresting with us, and

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00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:32.720
welcome back to working on purpose.
If if you aren't already aware, we've

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00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:37.119
launched the Gusto Now site. It's
a transformation to E learning platform dedicated to

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00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:40.839
awakening meaning, passion, inspiration,
purpose, and individuals and leaders. It

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features leadership and professional development of courses
in English, Spanish and Portuguese. You

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00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:48.200
can learn more at Gusto dashnow dot
com, and while you're there, subscribe

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00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:52.759
to the newsletter listened at the bottom
of the homepage and staying for movies,

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00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:56.319
radio episodes, and to get access
to our proprietary tools, videos and resources

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00:17:56.920 --> 00:18:00.960
if you're just joining us. My
guest is Joanne Hayman, founder and CEO

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00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:04.720
of Hyman Partners, and she's widely
recognized as a trans transformative force for good,

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bringing the mission driven focus for institutions
across sectors, cultures, and countries.

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I'm your host, doctor at least
Cortez, So, Joanne, I

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want to get into this segment here
talking some of the about some of the

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core things that you stand for.
And I got in from our conversations and

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also by looking at your videos,
your blogs, et cetera. So I

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know that one of the things that
you do when you cook people as you

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have them, start with addressing the
impact they want to make. I start

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there. I think one of the
smartest things you can do is not just

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start with sort of right up in
front of your face, but where do

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you want to end up? So
I encourage my clients, again, whether

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I'm working with an individual or with
the team, what why why are we

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doing this? What is it that
we're looking to accomplish over you know,

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over time, with effort, with
resources, And so if you if you

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start with that and you have that
as your north star, then you can

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develop strategies for how to get there. And so if you know where you're

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going, it's much easier to figure
out what you need to do and that

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need to do right. If you're
an organization, can be a series of

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products or services, or programs or
strategic alliances, lots of different things.

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If you're an individual, developing particular
skills, relationships, doing research, taking

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risks, as I mentioned before,
and so starting with the end point is

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very important. Now, impact is
to me one of the sort of the

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juiciest kinds of endpoints, because that
is, gosh, why are we here?

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Right? You talk about purpose,
I talk about impact very similar things.

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I believe that all of us can
have a positive impact on the world

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if we are intentional about it.
And so it's about setting that intention not

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in a woo woo way, although
we can go oOoOO right we want to,

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but we're really in a very practical
way. What is the impact I'm

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looking to have? What is the
impact we are looking to have and then

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okay, now we design the steps
to get there. I like it,

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and again I'm aligned. Okay,
So another thing that you talk about,

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which again I'm fully aligned with,
is you talk about the necessity of obstacles

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and stress along the journey to growth. Why do you think they're important to

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us? And how do they serve
us? And I love that would smile

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by the way, whatever was behind
that smile, I liked it for a

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long time. So, as I
mentioned at the start of this discussion,

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I was a student of literature.
So if you know, like there's no

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great story that you read, it's
just like, oh EASYPC and everything's fine

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and there's no conflict that we get
to the end. I mean, how

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boring would that be. Obstacles are
important because they teach us something. They

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teach us something about ourselves, they
teach us something about other people, they

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teach us something about the world,
and they offer us an opportunity to grow.

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So back to your question about transformational
growth, it's very hard to grow

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if everything just comes to you.
If there is if there is no if

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there's no p in the you know, the princess in the p bed,

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if there's no there's no lag across
the path. If there is no stream

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that you have to afford, we
learn who we are and we learn what

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we're capable of when we face an
overcome adversity. Now I'm not saying we

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should be inviting it in all the
time. It's nice to have a day,

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a week, a month, or
a year without too much of it.

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But if we see adversity as having
something to teach us again, I'm

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going to go back to what we
were talking about about mindset, then we're

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like, Okay, what do I
need to learn about myself, a person,

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a situation in the world, et
cetera. So that aligns with my

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work and logo therapy, which teaches
that we need a tension between who we

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are today and who we're trying to
become tomorrow. We need that it's actually

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essential being right. So again you
want to copy vision each other sense that.

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So it's probably pretty scared cary listeners
in yours. This is going to

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be a freaking This is a pre
Halloween show right now. You need to

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laugh, laugh like something crazy.
Okay, So then we have to go

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into curiosity. And I love how
you said this in one of your blogs.

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By the way, your side is
beautiful. I love all the resources.

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It's fantastic, Joanne, thank you, You're welcome. So you remind

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us to nurture curiosity as everything today
is about business as unusual, you say,

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which I love. And we've been
asked to live and work completely differently.

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Say more about that. So,
as I mentioned earlier, a curiosity

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to me is just a wonderful characteristic. It helps you engage with the world

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in ways that are always rich and
new. It helps you engage with other

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people in a way that is open
and honest. And so we are being

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asked to live and work very very
differently now remotely certainly for many people,

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as I said, as we discussed
earlier, with uncertainty, and so I

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think that there are as an invitation
here to learn how to be agile,

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to learn how to be flexible,
to learn how to learn again. And

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so if if these problems, and
they are problems, I want I don't

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want to sugarcoat the fact that this
is this is a really difficult time.

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But if we can say, if
we can acknowledge that and say what am

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I learning about myself? I'm going
to go back to what I said before,

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what am I learning? What am
I learning about we're working remotely?

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What am I learning about how much
I need to be near colleagues? What

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am I learning about the need for
human touch? What am I learning about?

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How much I can do on my
own? And so acknowledging even when

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part of the learning is something that
we miss or that we're sad about,

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that's vital information. That's vital information
for constructing what comes next. And so

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I mentioned that I absolutely love adaptive
leadership as a model, and one of

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my favorite, I think really easy
to grasp approaches is if you think about,

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how do I focus on what is
absolutely essential for who I am,

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what I do or again, this
is an individual or a company can do

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this? What do I want to
emerge out of this crisis? So essential?

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Who do I want to be?
Who do we need to be out

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of it? And then in order
to do that, what do we need

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to eliminate? What do we need
to let go of what no longer serves?

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So curiosity isn't just about oh that's
cool, let me explore that's a

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piece of it, but it's also
what may no longer be necessary? Yeah,

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And can I give myself permission to
say thank you and goodbye, Joanna

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so eloquent and beautiful. I completely
love that and agree of course. And

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now something that I haven't really said
before and don't really position, but completely

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align with it that you say is
embracing the notion to clear yourself a contribution.

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That's so beautiful. Seem more about
that and how that works. So,

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as I said, I have a
real sort of mission driven wiring about

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me, and I believe that all
of us can be a contribution in the

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world. And contribution is I think
we have a very reductivist way of thinking

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about it sometimes in the United States, like a financial contribution, and certainly

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financial generosity is incredibly important. It's
important and laws diferent ways, in particular

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course of the not for profit and
philanthropic sector. So there's the contribution of

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money, there's the contribution of your
time and talent. There's a contribution of

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your attention. And so all of
us, if we think of declaring ourselves

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a contribution, we unlock our own
innate generosity, which I believe most people

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have. The exercising of that generosity
gives you something wonderful to be proud of

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and connects you in meaningful and sustainable
ways with people, with opportunities, with

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issues, with communities. Do you
name it? You know what I love

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about that is that also absolutely by
definition that means you're focused on other people

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helping other people. Yes, And
of course, from my vanished point,

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you can't do purpose without being of
service to other people. So I love

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that as well. And then of
course we have to talk about this notion

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of how you distinguish being valuable versus
invaluable. Talk about that. So it

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was a really wise healer who shared
this with me a number of years ago

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and she said to me, you
know, Joan, you're so focused on

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being invaluable that you don't actually know
your own value. And wow, that

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really put me back on my heels
and I had to unpack that to understand

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it. And the difference is,
if you think about it, when you

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feel like you need to be invaluable, you're always I'll do that, I'll

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do that. You're volunteer, and
you're doing anything because you feel that you're

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worth is tied to being available all
the time. Saying that volunteering being invaluable,

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Yep, she'll do it, no
problem, right. I've been that

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person for a long for many,
many years. I speak from experience and

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pain, and that transformational growth we
are referring to valuable is saying I'm really

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good at this, and I'm going
to marshal my resources and I'm going to

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focus on where I have value as
a as a friend, as a family

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member, as a coach, as
a team member, and not worry about

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being everything to all people I e. Invaluable. I'm going to really work

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on understanding my value and then offering
it. I think that's so that takes

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a little bit, a little bit
or a lot of to work to we'll

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be able to distinguish that which I
know, which is part of the work

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that you do. And then I
don't think part of your work that I

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really find quite quite interesting and useful
that I don't see a lot of people

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doing per se, is you focus
on integrating work and life. Yes,

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one of my favorite topics. So
I want to say that you can't.

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I don't talk about integration without talking
about boundaries. Okay, I think of

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them if you're holding a barbell.
I think I've have integration on one side

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and boundaries on the other, Because
if you have too much of one and

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not enough of the other, you're
really out of whack. So when I

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say integration, and actually what people
say to me, are you a life

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coach or an executive coach? I
say yes because I call it. I

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call it integrative coaching. I've taken
a leaf from the playbook of integrative Medicine,

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which which takes the best healing practices
from Eastern and Western medicine and brings

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them to a patient. I bring
the best of what I have found in

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person and professional development practices and approaches
and bring them in service of my clients.

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So integration, to me, is
not about having picking up the phone

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at midnight. Integration is not about
you know, walking the dog while you're

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having a conference. Called integration is
about understanding that you're bringing a whole self

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to work. If you're integrating,
your skills and your talents and your perspective

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and everything you've seen, done or
experience is going to filter into the workplace.

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So integration is an important concept for
me in terms of understanding that who

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you are as a person and what
you do as a professional are linked.

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Boundaries are critically important to that though. Right when is the end of your

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00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:53.400
work day? Right, how do
you carve that where is the edge of

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00:29:53.400 --> 00:30:00.240
your workspace now and your home space
are very important part. There's sort of

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00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:04.279
the container, if you will,
a lease in which integration can happen,

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not literally are figuratively spilling out all
over the place. Fantastic Joan, I'm

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a Las Cortester. Her host were
really goes Doen Hyman. She is the

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00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:19.319
founder and CEO of Hyman Partners,
widely recognized as a transformative force for good,

396
00:30:19.640 --> 00:30:25.240
bringing a mission driven focus to institutions
across sectors, cultures, and countries.

397
00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:26.960
Childrens from New York City. Stay
with us, We'll be right back.

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00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:33.839
Doctor release Cortez is a management consultant
specializing in meaning and purpose and inspirational

399
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:40.680
speaker and author. She helps companies
visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop

400
00:30:40.759 --> 00:30:47.880
purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures
that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment

401
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:51.960
within the workforce. To learn more
or to invite a lease to speak to

402
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:56.559
your organization, please visit her at
a lease Cortez dot com. Let's talk

403
00:30:56.599 --> 00:31:07.839
about how to get your employees working
on purpose. This is working on purpose

404
00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:11.519
with doctor Elise Cortez. To reach
our program today or open a conversation with

405
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:18.720
Elise. Send an email to Elise
ali se at Elise Cortez dot com.

406
00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:29.279
Now back to Working on Purpose.
Thanks for stating with us, and welcome

407
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:33.000
back to Working on Purpose. I've
got another announcement for you so exciting.

408
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:38.279
My book Purpose Ignited, How Inspiring
Leaders ignite passion and Elevate Cause is due

409
00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:41.960
out November seventeen on Amazon. You
can order it now. The book is

410
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:47.359
really designed to transform readers into inspirational
leaders who radically all to the workplace and

411
00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:51.759
how business is done for the better. Register on Gusto Dashnell dot com on

412
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:55.319
the events tab and join me for
the virtual launch Monday, November sixteenth.

413
00:31:55.319 --> 00:31:57.680
We're on from twelve to two Central. I'll be sharing some of the key

414
00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:00.640
learnings from the book, getting it
to needing to break breakout groups by their

415
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:05.599
chapter interest, whether that's meaning identity, passionate, inspiration or purpose, and

416
00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:08.559
giving away a few free books and
other prizes it to you there. Joining

417
00:32:08.640 --> 00:32:13.119
us back again is Joanne Hayman.
She's a founder and CEO of Hayman Partners.

418
00:32:13.319 --> 00:32:15.640
Is widely recognized as a transformative purse
for good, bringing a mission driven

419
00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:20.640
focus to institutions cross sectors, cultures
and countries. I'm your host, doctor

420
00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:22.480
Leus Cortez. All right, Joanne, we're in the homestrets already, this

421
00:32:22.599 --> 00:32:27.720
goes so very fast. So in
this segment, I wanted to talk about

422
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:30.200
the application of your work. And
so we've been talking about just how fun

423
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:32.880
it is, how great it is. But I want to help our reader,

424
00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:37.039
our listeners, and our viewers understand
just the impact that you are making

425
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:40.240
with your people that you're working with. And so first to start off here,

426
00:32:40.599 --> 00:32:45.160
I appreciate that you delineate on your
blog that there are eight universal elements

427
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:49.680
to describe successful transitions. I don't
know if you can list all of them

428
00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:52.559
or if you're prepared, but can
you name at least a few? Nope,

429
00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:53.519
I have my notes. Let's do
it. Okay, let's do it.

430
00:32:53.599 --> 00:32:58.279
Than to you or something that if
anybody's interested in knowing a little bit

431
00:32:58.279 --> 00:33:01.000
more, just pop onto my website
and it's all there. So I came

432
00:33:01.039 --> 00:33:06.519
to this after many years of work
and looking across the clients with whom I

433
00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:09.039
work. You know, there're clearly
are some things here what can I tease

434
00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:13.200
out to help people? So there
are really eight things that I believe this

435
00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:16.839
is my opinion and my experience.
I don't claim it to be any more

436
00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:22.880
universal than that. So the first
is know thyself right. A successful transition

437
00:33:22.920 --> 00:33:25.640
knows what it starts with. Really
knowing yourself. What makes you happy,

438
00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:29.640
what makes you sad? What kind
of work environments bring out the best in

439
00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:36.039
you? Which one stoke? Just
ruthless honesty about who you are, where

440
00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:40.960
you glow, where you're frustrated,
et cetera. Step two, face your

441
00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:45.599
fears. We all have them,
you know. Just like they say you

442
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:51.160
don't have secrets, secrets have you
the same thing with fear. We all

443
00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:54.559
have it. There's nothing to be
ashamed of, but you have to acknowledge

444
00:33:54.599 --> 00:34:00.599
it. And is your fear related
to financial security very real? Right worth

445
00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:06.519
exploring? Is your fear related to
imposter syndrome? Not worth exploring? Work

446
00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:09.719
worth working through. So there are
all different kinds of fears, we all

447
00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:15.159
have them, but really understand what
they are and faith them because chances are

448
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:21.079
they're not necessarily going to be a
barrier to transition. But there's something you

449
00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:24.760
need to know about. Three,
ask smart questions right, really inform yourself

450
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:30.079
if you want to transition to a
new position, a new company, a

451
00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:35.840
new industry, becoming a solopreneur as
I did, start to ask smart questions

452
00:34:35.880 --> 00:34:43.239
about people who have something valuable to
say. And these people should be people

453
00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:46.719
who have direct experience with what you
are interested in. So I'm not talking

454
00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:52.639
about Google research or website. I'm
talking about person to person conversations where you

455
00:34:52.760 --> 00:34:58.639
can get some really important insights.
Next, take small steps every day.

456
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:01.119
I am a huge fan and you'll
see it all over my website of James

457
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:06.119
Clear and Atomic Habits. One of
the things that's very important, especially if

458
00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:09.519
you're feeling stuck, is to take
small steps. And I work with my

459
00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:13.920
clients on how to break that down. And the small step may be scheduling

460
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:17.159
that informational interview. The small step
may be working on your bio or your

461
00:35:17.239 --> 00:35:21.840
linked in summary. So the small
steps may be interactive or they may be

462
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:27.079
internal, but it's very important to
do small things every day gain some momentum.

463
00:35:28.119 --> 00:35:31.599
The next is request feedback, and
by this I mean talk to people

464
00:35:31.639 --> 00:35:37.119
who know you well and really listen
to what they say. Hey, where

465
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:40.039
do you think I show up well? Where do you see me not performing

466
00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:44.199
at my best? Where have you
seen me happy? In aligned? Where

467
00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:47.079
have you seen me? May be
shut down, so ask people who know

468
00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:51.800
you to hold up a mirror to
you. That can be very helpful.

469
00:35:52.360 --> 00:35:54.639
The next is when I say,
sort of carpe DM, you're going to

470
00:35:54.760 --> 00:35:58.920
have to be ready to seize the
day. At some point. You are

471
00:35:59.039 --> 00:36:02.719
not going to have perfect information because
there's no such thing. So you have

472
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:06.760
to get comfortable with the fact that
at some point you're going to take a

473
00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:12.519
leap and try to assess you know
what that comfort level could be. Maybe

474
00:36:12.559 --> 00:36:15.360
a little bit of discomfort in terms
of what you're used to, but know

475
00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:21.000
that seizing the moment is going to
be important. Next, create a system

476
00:36:21.079 --> 00:36:24.320
for accountability. Right of course I
think coaches are great for this, but

477
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:28.639
if you don't have a coach,
that's fine. Who within your circle,

478
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:31.639
your closest circles can hold you accountable
and say, hey, alas you said

479
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:35.159
you were going to work on that
LinkedIn bio, I don't see it.

480
00:36:35.280 --> 00:36:37.679
How's it going. You know those
three people that you were going to have

481
00:36:38.119 --> 00:36:42.840
conversations with, what did you learn
it? Sometimes it's health. In fact,

482
00:36:42.960 --> 00:36:45.400
it's almost always helpful for us to
have people who can help us be

483
00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:50.159
accountable, not to what they say
we should do, but to what we

484
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:53.320
say we want to do. And
then, lastly, for goodness sake,

485
00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:59.559
have a sense of humor, right, have laugh Laughter is so good,

486
00:36:59.800 --> 00:37:01.960
so good for us physically, emotionally, and in every way possible. You

487
00:37:02.079 --> 00:37:05.480
have to have a sense of humor. You're going to make mistakes. Not

488
00:37:05.559 --> 00:37:09.920
everything's going to be perfect. You
might be silly. It's fine. Invite

489
00:37:10.039 --> 00:37:14.840
laughter into the process and it will
not only be more joyful, it'll probably

490
00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:17.559
be more successful. All right,
listeners and viewers, did you hear that?

491
00:37:17.639 --> 00:37:21.840
That was a special gift for you? So please take that and go

492
00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:23.039
for it. If you didn't write
it down, just come back and listen

493
00:37:23.079 --> 00:37:25.679
to it again as well. Worth
going through those steps. And there's also

494
00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:30.199
something on her website as well her
blog that talks about that. So you're

495
00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:34.239
not alone, you're not miss Okay. I ask you to prepare and kind

496
00:37:34.280 --> 00:37:37.000
of think about something, maybe a
case with a client that you'd work with,

497
00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:40.400
and I wanted you to talk about
what his or her life looked like

498
00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:46.079
before you were working together and what
was it like after. So this was

499
00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:49.719
a great it was a great question. At least, I really am glad

500
00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:52.960
that you asked it, and I
let me go on a chip down memory

501
00:37:52.039 --> 00:37:57.360
late and so I chose the client
who is She was extraordinary when she came

502
00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:00.400
to me, but she was a
founder. I work with a lot of

503
00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:05.920
founders or first time executive directors,
president CEOs or C suite. She was

504
00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:10.000
a founder and executive director of an
extraordinary organization and was having a very hard

505
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:15.719
time showing up as a very powerful
presence with her board of directors. And

506
00:38:16.559 --> 00:38:22.239
like me, she's a petite woman, looks young for her age. I

507
00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:23.239
don't know that I still look young
for my age, but I used to

508
00:38:24.039 --> 00:38:28.960
and was really grappling with how do
I show up as my authentic self.

509
00:38:28.960 --> 00:38:31.440
I don't want to pretend to be
anybody else, but I need them to

510
00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:37.800
understand the gravitas of who I am, of what I'm looking to do,

511
00:38:38.320 --> 00:38:44.360
without changing, without without being,
without pretending to anything else. And so

512
00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:51.559
we worked a lot on understanding what
she's awesome that at focusing in on the

513
00:38:51.679 --> 00:38:54.519
vision, at focusing it on the
impact she was looking to have, and

514
00:38:54.599 --> 00:39:00.920
then it being unapologetic about asking for
what she needs needed from her board in

515
00:39:01.119 --> 00:39:06.199
service of the vision, in service
of the mission. And so now,

516
00:39:06.320 --> 00:39:08.360
as I said, She was spectacular
when she got to me. But what

517
00:39:08.480 --> 00:39:14.559
we worked on and the transformation that
I was able to witness, was stepping

518
00:39:14.719 --> 00:39:21.559
into her own power with no apologies
whatsoever, with great clarity. And it

519
00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:24.360
will come as no shock that this
organization has gone on to become very,

520
00:39:24.519 --> 00:39:29.840
very successful. She has raised an
enormous amount of money, She's impacting the

521
00:39:29.960 --> 00:39:35.880
lives of scores of people in the
community that she serves. And it was

522
00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:44.639
really about owning, owning her power, owning her voice, owning the appropriateness

523
00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:49.679
of asking for what was needed,
whether that was attention or resources or authority.

524
00:39:51.079 --> 00:39:52.159
A couple of things. First,
I wrote down if you saw me

525
00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:54.920
writing, I love the word gravitas. That is such a great word,

526
00:39:55.119 --> 00:39:59.440
right, So when we can help, are the people that we serve to

527
00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:02.880
declare or access their own gravitas?
Like that's a real gift. Right.

528
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:06.920
So, so I think that so
much of the work that we do to

529
00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:10.920
win is we're catalyzers, right,
we're storers. And so people come to

530
00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:15.920
us whether or not they are seeking
transformation, but they often they get it

531
00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:20.719
oftentimes. But why do you think
people don't seek transformation? What is it

532
00:40:20.840 --> 00:40:23.079
that's stoppable from wanting that growth from
reaching out and asking, hey JR.

533
00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:27.719
When will you coach me? At
least will you coach me? I think

534
00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:30.559
that it goes back to what we
were talking about a couple of minutes ago

535
00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:36.199
about fear, and I think for
many people there is fear of being just

536
00:40:36.400 --> 00:40:42.320
as successful as we actually can be. Maybe that comes to the level of

537
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:47.920
attention that we're not sure we're ready
for transformation. As I said, and

538
00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:52.480
I was talking about those three,
ease does require eliminating things. Maybe what

539
00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:58.559
you have to eliminate and let go
of is a story of yourself. Maybe

540
00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:04.199
what you have to eliminate and let
go of is a having pursued a career

541
00:41:04.280 --> 00:41:09.559
path that wasn't really authentic who you
are. Maybe there is a sunk cost

542
00:41:09.679 --> 00:41:14.679
of a degree you earned, it
wasn't really something that you were passionate about,

543
00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:20.400
and so that it's hard. It's
hard to let go of some of

544
00:41:20.480 --> 00:41:24.360
these things. And I think that
that's why transformational growth doesn't happen sometimes,

545
00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:30.800
is that first of all, we
don't we don't recognize what I'm discussing,

546
00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:37.679
and that we don't kind of have
empathy for ourselves that going through this process

547
00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:43.280
and shedding. Something could involve some
sadness or some saying goodbye, but it's

548
00:41:43.320 --> 00:41:47.159
in service where we want to go. You know, you're reminding me.

549
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:50.480
I don't know if you know Norman
Wolf, but he was on my radio

550
00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:52.599
show a few weeks ago, and
he was talking about, and I completely

551
00:41:52.599 --> 00:41:57.320
aligned with this as an identity researcher, that in order for us to grow,

552
00:41:57.639 --> 00:42:00.760
the old identity must die. Yeah. Well that's kind of scary for

553
00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:04.199
a lot of people. Death is
as scary thing as it is, right,

554
00:42:04.280 --> 00:42:07.079
So you know we're talking what we're
talking about here is already scary.

555
00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:10.599
So listeners and viewers, what we're
trying to get to here is we recognize

556
00:42:10.599 --> 00:42:14.519
how hard this work is. Right, I always say to people, growth

557
00:42:14.679 --> 00:42:17.320
never happens when you're sitting comfortably on
the couch with your feet up watching a

558
00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:21.760
great movie. It never happens then, right, It's always when things are

559
00:42:21.880 --> 00:42:24.239
really hard and it's just it hurts, it's uncomfortable, right, And who

560
00:42:24.280 --> 00:42:31.880
wants to go through that except when
there's something bursting right right, right,

561
00:42:32.039 --> 00:42:37.480
it's not I doubt trying to erupt
exactly. And so so there is this

562
00:42:37.719 --> 00:42:39.679
resistance to growth, and so what
are some of the things that we can

563
00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:44.559
do to overcome that then make us
more prepared, make us more pliable.

564
00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:51.960
You know. Part of it starts
with dreaming love that really dreaming like what

565
00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:59.199
if and not dreaming in a fantasy
way, but dreaming in a you know,

566
00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:02.960
it's like it's like getting back at
least too, that that childlike sense

567
00:43:04.039 --> 00:43:08.199
of possibility and wonder and you know, what did you dream of being?

568
00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:15.519
And maybe that's something that will find
its way into your day to day life

569
00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:17.360
and your paid job. Maybe that's
say that you can find its way to

570
00:43:17.440 --> 00:43:21.639
how you spend your free time.
I think that's something also that we don't

571
00:43:21.679 --> 00:43:25.280
talk enough about when we're talking about
workplace purpose and satisfaction, which of course

572
00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:29.639
is where you and I spend you
know, ninety five percent of our time.

573
00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:34.480
But it may be that some of
these things that give us joy and

574
00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:40.960
purpose are avocational and not vocational.
And that's okay. If you think about

575
00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:45.760
your life as having chapters, and
if you think of your career as having

576
00:43:45.880 --> 00:43:50.280
chapters, it may be that something
is not going to be as prominent a

577
00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:57.199
protagonist in this chapter, but may
come out a little bit later. Well,

578
00:43:57.239 --> 00:43:59.480
I love any way, just starting
with the notion of dreaming as you're

579
00:43:59.480 --> 00:44:01.480
saying, because what that does is
it opens possibility. It takes you out

580
00:44:01.519 --> 00:44:06.440
of today's realm, which may have
perceive limitations to it, into something else.

581
00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:08.119
And I love that. That's a
great way to get out of and

582
00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:13.280
overcoming the resistance to grow. Okay, I have two more questions for you,

583
00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:15.960
because we're already running on time here. It's crazy how past this goes.

584
00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:19.239
I want to hear what you would
say, is the promise you see

585
00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:23.760
when more of us work from purpose
across the globe, I see so much

586
00:44:23.840 --> 00:44:30.280
beauty. I see people showing up
as their best selves. I see people

587
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:37.960
when they're coming from purpose, as
being compelled by something greater than the immediate

588
00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:45.360
experience at hand. I see them
more patients. I see better listening and

589
00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:52.239
relating. I see people playing the
long game because they're going for that purpose

590
00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:55.280
and what we discussed at the beginning
of the conversation that impact. And so

591
00:44:57.679 --> 00:45:04.800
when I see my clients work from
her, I see them rolling with the

592
00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:08.400
punches. I also see the big, very directive, right, So this

593
00:45:08.559 --> 00:45:12.760
is this is that that kind of
Barbelle metaphor that I was using before,

594
00:45:13.239 --> 00:45:15.880
Rolling with the punches, but also
being really clear about where it is we're

595
00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:22.760
going. I think it allows for
better communication. I think it allows for

596
00:45:27.559 --> 00:45:31.639
also the joy at seeing other people
living out their purpose, so a whole

597
00:45:31.639 --> 00:45:37.559
different kind of connection. And I
also I would add all I'm on board

598
00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:39.559
with all of that, and I
would also add for our listeners and viewers.

599
00:45:39.599 --> 00:45:44.920
And it also it takes away really
competition and makes us want to support

600
00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:46.320
all of that because we all know
that we're getting a better deal in this

601
00:45:46.360 --> 00:45:51.079
world when everybody's working for purpose.
And I would also say that, especially

602
00:45:51.199 --> 00:45:53.559
now in this pandemic, I think
if we've learned nothing, it's we all

603
00:45:53.599 --> 00:45:58.480
need everybody working living from their purpose
in order to create this new world that

604
00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:01.840
we're stepping into day by day and
coming through on whatever the other side is.

605
00:46:01.960 --> 00:46:07.559
And so both of us stand for
this whole idea of living and working

606
00:46:07.639 --> 00:46:10.760
with purpose or from purpose. So
beautiful answer, Joanne. And then the

607
00:46:10.840 --> 00:46:15.079
last question, of course, is
even though this program is listened to from

608
00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:17.400
across the globe, we have both
listeners and guests from across the globe that

609
00:46:17.440 --> 00:46:22.159
contribute to this and the whole idea
is to advance the conversation on helping people

610
00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:27.519
to live with passion, come into
a workplace that allows them to thrive and

611
00:46:27.840 --> 00:46:30.840
to do business in a way that
betters the world. What would like to

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leave our listeners with. I want
to give everybody a really big no expery

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date permission slip to act like a
leader wherever you are. Leadership is not

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00:46:45.360 --> 00:46:52.239
a title, it's not a job
description, it's not a box on an

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00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:55.519
orc chart. It's a way of
thinking. And if you, if you

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00:46:55.679 --> 00:47:01.679
behave as if you have permission to, you know, lead from your heart

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00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:07.119
as yourself, lead within your community, lead within your organization, and really

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00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:12.639
stand up and take responsibility for things
that you think are important. You can

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00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:19.760
indeed be that contribution and be incredibly
proud of the way you beautiful way to

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00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:22.760
finish, Joan. I'm so glad
I found you. Thank to our thanks

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00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:25.079
to our comic friend, doctor nahass
Wan. Thank you very much for coming

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00:47:25.400 --> 00:47:30.719
colliding into my path, into my
journey and being a light in the world

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00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:34.320
and doing the work that you're doing
to make the world a better place one

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00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:37.400
by one. Thank you for that
people. Thank you. I'm so grateful

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00:47:38.079 --> 00:47:42.280
that we met and that you invited
me on gave me this opportunity to be

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00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:45.400
in conversation and to share some of
the things that you and I care so

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00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:50.800
deeply about more broadly, absolutely Joanne. Listeners and viewers who want to learn

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00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:52.599
more about Joan Hayman and the work
she does, start by going to her

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website. It's Hayman Partners. Let
me spell that for you. It's eight

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00:47:57.480 --> 00:48:00.960
e y M A N partners dot
com. Last week, you can miss

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00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:04.760
the live show, you can always
get to be recorded podcast. We were

632
00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:07.480
on the air with Steve Brown talking
about his book The Innovation Ultimatum and Now

633
00:48:07.599 --> 00:48:12.400
every company will become a technology and
data company in the twenty twenties. We

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00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:16.639
talked about the exciting ways big technologies
like artificial intelligence, robotics, virtual and

635
00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:22.960
augmented reality, and find open five
G networks gave a great possibility for humans

636
00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:25.280
to partner with technology for a better
world. It was very exciting and very

637
00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:29.880
lumining and very encouraging and inspiring.
It took away a lot of my fear

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00:48:30.400 --> 00:48:31.840
of some of these big technologies,
and I think it will yours as well.

639
00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:35.920
Next week we'll be on the air
with Howard Shore. He's the author

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00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:39.079
of The Leader launch Pad. Five
Steps to fuel your business and lift your

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00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:42.920
profits. See you there. Remember
that works at least a third of our

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00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:51.480
life. So let's work on purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this week's program.

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00:48:51.880 --> 00:48:55.039
Be sure to tune into Working on
Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise

644
00:48:55.079 --> 00:49:00.639
Cortez, each week on the Voice
America Empowerment Channel. Together, we'll create

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00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:07.880
a world where business operates conscientiously,
leadership inspires impassioned performance, and employees are

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00:49:07.960 --> 00:49:13.599
fulfilled in work that provides the meaning
and purpose they crave. See you there,

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00:49:14.159 --> 00:49:15.599
Let's work on Purpose.