WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:02.480
The topics and opinions express in the following show are
2
00:00:02.480 --> 00:00:04.120
solely those of the hosts and their guests and not
3
00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:05.480
those of W FOURCY Radio.
4
00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:06.719
It's employees are affiliates.
5
00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:10.199
We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
6
00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:12.599
or products mentioned on air or on our web. No
7
00:00:12.679 --> 00:00:15.599
liability explicit or implies shall be extended to W FOURCY
8
00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:18.399
Radio or its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments
9
00:00:18.399 --> 00:00:20.640
should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for
10
00:00:20.719 --> 00:00:22.640
choosing W FOURCY Radio.
11
00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:29.519
What's working on Purpose?
12
00:00:29.600 --> 00:00:32.840
Anyway? Each week we ponder the answer to this question.
13
00:00:33.320 --> 00:00:36.200
People ache for meaning and purpose at work, to contribute
14
00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:39.920
their talents passionately and know their lives really matter. They
15
00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:42.799
crave being part of an organization that inspires them and
16
00:00:42.840 --> 00:00:46.399
helps them grow into realizing their highest potential. Business can
17
00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:49.560
be such a force for good in the world, elevating humanity.
18
00:00:49.799 --> 00:00:52.920
In our program, we provide guidance and inspiration to help
19
00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:56.520
usher in this world we all want working on Purpose.
20
00:00:56.920 --> 00:00:59.840
Now here's your host, doctor Elise Cortes.
21
00:01:04.719 --> 00:01:06.719
Welcome back to the Working and Purpose Program, which has
22
00:01:06.760 --> 00:01:08.680
been brought to you with passionate and price since February
23
00:01:08.719 --> 00:01:11.159
of twenty fifteen. Thanks tuning it and again this week.
24
00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:13.439
Great to have you. I'm your host, doctor Leix Cortes.
25
00:01:13.879 --> 00:01:15.920
If we have not met before and you don't know me,
26
00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:20.359
I'm an organizational psychologist, management consultant, LOCO therapist, speaker and author,
27
00:01:20.680 --> 00:01:22.480
and my team and I at Gusto Now help companies
28
00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:25.120
to enliven and fortify their operations by building a dynamic,
29
00:01:25.239 --> 00:01:28.959
high performance culture and inspirational leadership activated by meaning and purpose.
30
00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:32.239
And did you know that inspired employees outperform their satisfied
31
00:01:32.239 --> 00:01:34.920
peers by factor of two point twenty five to one.
32
00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:37.560
In other words, inspiration is good for the bottom line.
33
00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:39.000
You can learn more about us on how we can
34
00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:42.519
work together at gustodeshnow dot com or my personal site
35
00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:45.840
at last Coortes dot com. Before we get into today's program,
36
00:01:45.879 --> 00:01:48.200
I am thrilled to announce that registration has been opened
37
00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:50.840
for a fabulous neoth conference for women which i'll service.
38
00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:53.760
The MC is called Thrive in twenty five and is
39
00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:56.719
a jam packed few days in Chicago June twenty fifth
40
00:01:56.760 --> 00:01:59.519
through the twenty eighth, twenty twenty five, and it's designed
41
00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:03.120
to devot women as whole selves from bolstering your mindset
42
00:02:03.159 --> 00:02:06.159
to your financial acumen, to leadership, to incorporating nature and
43
00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:08.879
art into your life to raise consciousness and much more.
44
00:02:09.400 --> 00:02:12.199
You can visit to Thrive in twenty five for information
45
00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:14.960
and to register. Use my promo code of Gusto all
46
00:02:15.039 --> 00:02:17.680
caps to gain access to the free books and programs.
47
00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:21.319
I'll be gifting registrants as well. See you there now.
48
00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:26.120
Today's program has with us Zach mccurio, our researcher, leadership development, facilitator,
49
00:02:26.199 --> 00:02:30.879
speaker specializing purposeful leadership, mattering and meaningful work. He is
50
00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:33.639
the author of the Power of Mattering, How leaders can
51
00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:36.599
create a Culture of Significance, which we'll be talking about today.
52
00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:39.520
He joins us from Port Collins, Colorado. Zach, welcome back,
53
00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:41.960
I think a third time to working on Purpose.
54
00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:44.759
Thanks, Elise, It's good to see you.
55
00:02:44.759 --> 00:02:46.919
You're right. I just really appreciate the work that you're
56
00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:48.520
doing in the world. You know, I'm a huge fan.
57
00:02:48.639 --> 00:02:51.919
Of course, I've been following you since at least twenty
58
00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:54.560
seventeen when you first book come out, So I'm in
59
00:02:54.599 --> 00:02:54.879
for this.
60
00:02:55.319 --> 00:02:55.680
Thank you.
61
00:02:56.240 --> 00:02:58.560
Yeah, you have at least one fat in your corner, Zach.
62
00:02:58.599 --> 00:03:00.599
You know that, Hey, all I need.
63
00:03:01.639 --> 00:03:04.680
Okay, Well, actually we have a lot of work to do,
64
00:03:04.960 --> 00:03:06.919
and I want to start with this notion that you
65
00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:08.520
have in your book, which I think is a good
66
00:03:08.520 --> 00:03:11.280
place for us to start. Is you talk about how
67
00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:14.800
we can't really have healthy organizations with unhealthy people in them.
68
00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:19.120
So let's start there. The idea of unhealthy organizations.
69
00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:23.960
Well, an organization is simply comprised of individual human beings
70
00:03:24.000 --> 00:03:29.479
who organize, So the health of an organization is really
71
00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:32.599
determined by the health of its individuals. A lot of
72
00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:35.840
the way that we've structured organizations and thought about organizations
73
00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:41.000
and led organizations since the industrial revolution has obsessively focused
74
00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:48.719
on lagging indicators productivity, performance, profit. All of those are
75
00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:55.039
lagging indicators. There is no performance metric that is not
76
00:03:55.199 --> 00:03:59.879
mediated through a human being. And how would you want
77
00:03:59.919 --> 00:04:04.560
that human being to feel to produce and perform. Most
78
00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:06.800
people would say, we want them to feel motivated, we
79
00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:09.759
want them to feel energized, we want them to feel
80
00:04:09.800 --> 00:04:13.439
that the work matters. We want them to feel that
81
00:04:13.479 --> 00:04:16.399
they matter. And when you start thinking like that, you'll
82
00:04:16.439 --> 00:04:20.079
realize that the leading indicator for every lagging indicator we
83
00:04:20.120 --> 00:04:25.319
want is human energy. And so I think the time
84
00:04:25.399 --> 00:04:31.199
is now for leaders to begin to think about how
85
00:04:31.199 --> 00:04:36.399
they're thinking about their organizations in terms of human energy.
86
00:04:37.120 --> 00:04:40.279
Are you regenerating the human energy needed to accomplish all
87
00:04:40.279 --> 00:04:42.360
the things you say you want to accomplish? And the
88
00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:46.079
answer in many of our organizations right now is no.
89
00:04:49.879 --> 00:04:51.920
I tend very much to agree, of course, because we're
90
00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:54.279
doing some similar kind of work. And I really like
91
00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:57.680
how you really situate, you know, really the importance for
92
00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:01.519
leaders or anyone who influences anyone. Course you say, filling
93
00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:05.319
people's fundamental need for significance isn't imperative. And so when
94
00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:07.399
I think about, like of other people on the podcast
95
00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:11.279
that I've talked about the experience of having really shotlet's
96
00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:14.160
just say, terrible leaders that had no idea of the
97
00:05:14.360 --> 00:05:17.439
negative impact and shrapnel that they were cascading through their
98
00:05:17.519 --> 00:05:20.600
organizations and through their people. On the other side of that,
99
00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:23.240
the opportunity to really lift lives on and love the
100
00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:27.480
word significance to be able to fuel their need for significance. So,
101
00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:30.399
if you could say a bit more about that particular
102
00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:33.079
need and why is it so important for leaders to
103
00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:33.879
impact that.
104
00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:41.319
Every single person that you lead was born searching for significance.
105
00:05:42.040 --> 00:05:45.160
It's a biological fact. The first thing you did as
106
00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:47.399
a human being was you reached your arms out for
107
00:05:47.439 --> 00:05:50.360
someone to care for you. In fact, scientists find that
108
00:05:50.399 --> 00:05:52.959
we have a reflex to grasp on to somebody a
109
00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:56.639
caretaker before we have a reflex to eat food. Well,
110
00:05:57.120 --> 00:05:59.839
nobody would be here listening to this show right now
111
00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:02.360
if we all did not matter enough to someone else
112
00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:07.000
to keep us alive. Now, as we grow up and
113
00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:10.720
grow into adulthood and go to work, that instinct, just
114
00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:13.319
like the instinct to eat or the instinct to sleep,
115
00:06:13.480 --> 00:06:17.040
does not go away because we clock in somewhere. We
116
00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:19.720
like to conveniently think that it does, but it does not.
117
00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:24.519
It turns into the fundamental need to feel seen, heard, valued,
118
00:06:24.680 --> 00:06:28.959
and needed by those around us, and so that need
119
00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:32.439
for significance. It is first and foremost a survival instinct.
120
00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:35.759
Someone on said to me, Zach, you know this is
121
00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:38.399
kind of the soft, touchy feely stuff, and I responded,
122
00:06:38.480 --> 00:06:40.959
it's just about as touchy phelia as feeding someone in
123
00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:43.399
front of you who's hungry.
124
00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:44.279
Uh.
125
00:06:44.720 --> 00:06:47.920
It is a prerequisite, and for leaders it's essential because
126
00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:50.959
if you want anything to matter to someone, they first
127
00:06:51.040 --> 00:06:53.839
have to believe that they matter. Think about the last
128
00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:57.560
time you felt energized to do something when you felt unimportant.
129
00:06:58.720 --> 00:07:01.079
If you want someone's voice, if you want someone to
130
00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:02.920
share their voice, they first have to believe their voice
131
00:07:02.920 --> 00:07:05.680
is significant. If you want your team members to use
132
00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:08.680
their strengths, they first have to believe they have them.
133
00:07:08.839 --> 00:07:10.800
If you want your team members to contribute, they first
134
00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:15.000
have to believe they're worthy of contributing. And that's why
135
00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:19.120
this fundamental need is I think the prerequisite. I don't
136
00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:23.120
think there's anything more important for a leader than showing
137
00:07:23.160 --> 00:07:28.240
people how they matter. If you're a leader, anytime you
138
00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:31.839
hear the word fundamental human need, you should be thinking,
139
00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:34.279
do I have that fundamental skill?
140
00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:36.879
Oh my gosh.
141
00:07:37.000 --> 00:07:41.199
A leader's craft is people. Leaders influence people. That's why
142
00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:44.360
I say anyone who influences anybody, so the best leaders
143
00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:48.279
hone their craft. They practice the fundamentals of being human.
144
00:07:49.160 --> 00:07:52.360
The fundamental need that all humans have is to matter,
145
00:07:52.439 --> 00:07:53.639
to feel significant.
146
00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:58.680
All right, Two things to that, Zach. One, I need
147
00:07:58.720 --> 00:08:00.680
you to tell the story about the the woman who
148
00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:03.519
every day cleaned the windows and then the sprinklers came on.
149
00:08:04.600 --> 00:08:06.120
So tell that story. And then the other thing I
150
00:08:06.639 --> 00:08:10.519
wanted to say is what I appreciate about the work
151
00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:12.279
that you do and then I get to do as well,
152
00:08:12.360 --> 00:08:14.720
is that when we do teach people to be able
153
00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:17.240
to use these kinds of skills, what happens is all
154
00:08:17.279 --> 00:08:19.879
of their relationships across their whole entire life as individuals
155
00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:23.480
improve radically. So whoever they're connected to, whoever they're loved,
156
00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:25.720
one is at home, if they have children, if they
157
00:08:25.759 --> 00:08:28.560
have pets, all of those relationships get better immediately too.
158
00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:31.279
I love it when I occasionally get an email from
159
00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:35.720
somebody's spouse saying thank you from what you're doing right,
160
00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:39.200
And it's so beautiful, right, and so lifting lives by
161
00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:42.600
being able to help develop and fortify these skills and
162
00:08:42.720 --> 00:08:45.720
leaders it's such a it's such a beautiful work to
163
00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:46.120
get to do.
164
00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:49.440
And I'm an optimist. I don't believe that any leader
165
00:08:49.559 --> 00:08:51.799
wakes up and is like I would like to be
166
00:08:51.840 --> 00:08:55.440
an uncaring leader today, right. I think we have many
167
00:08:55.480 --> 00:09:00.879
people in leadership positions who aren't trained right human skills.
168
00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:04.759
And what's what's hopeful about all this is that we
169
00:09:04.799 --> 00:09:08.200
can relearn these skills to see here value one another.
170
00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:11.879
And you're right, it makes us better people. But that's
171
00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:15.879
what being a leader is. When I ask people thousands
172
00:09:15.919 --> 00:09:20.159
of people, think about the most important impactful leader in
173
00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:23.399
your life, they do not talk about quarterly earnings reports,
174
00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:28.720
product launches, or achievements. They talk about feeling seen, heard
175
00:09:29.080 --> 00:09:33.799
and valued in everyday interactions. That's why you know. I
176
00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:36.279
often say the next your next great leadership act is
177
00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:43.039
your next interaction. And I think uncaring leaders happen because
178
00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:45.600
they're untrained. And I want to give you an example
179
00:09:45.639 --> 00:09:51.120
of what happens when a leader creates that environment, and
180
00:09:51.159 --> 00:09:54.679
I'll share the story of that woman, the window watcher.
181
00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:57.799
So just as mattering is a fundamental need, when that
182
00:09:57.879 --> 00:10:02.200
instinct is not met, our minds in our bodies react accordingly. Typically,
183
00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:08.159
what happens is we either withdraw also known as quiet, quitting, silencing, withholding,
184
00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:13.000
or react out in desperation, complaining, blaming, gossiping, other so
185
00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:16.799
called toxic behaviors. Are often cries for significance, reaching out
186
00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:19.759
for significance, And a perfect example of this is I
187
00:10:19.799 --> 00:10:21.759
was asked to work with a group of maintenance workers.
188
00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:24.480
One of their roles was to clean the windows of
189
00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:27.360
this bottom floor of this industrial complex in the summer,
190
00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:31.320
and this woman had her team go in every morning,
191
00:10:31.799 --> 00:10:35.039
and she was leading the team and had them do it. Now,
192
00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:38.399
the first week on the job, she noticed very soon
193
00:10:38.519 --> 00:10:41.120
that the reason she was going in there every day
194
00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:44.360
with her team was because the sprinkler system, the sprinkler
195
00:10:44.399 --> 00:10:47.159
heads on that system were aimed wrong. So at three
196
00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:50.519
pm every afternoon, the sprinkler system blasted on and blasted
197
00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:54.360
all the windows, left all of these avoidable water splotches.
198
00:10:54.519 --> 00:10:56.480
And this is why the client wanted them to come
199
00:10:56.519 --> 00:11:00.000
in every morning during the summer. So she was really excited.
200
00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:03.320
I mean, she came up to her supervisor and she said,
201
00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:06.600
you know, I have an idea. What if we aimed
202
00:11:06.639 --> 00:11:09.679
the sprinklers differently. What if we fix the sprinklers. That
203
00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:14.639
would completely save time and change the morale and the team.
204
00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:18.159
And the supervisor just said, that's the sprinkler people's problem,
205
00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:20.840
it's not our problem. I need you to just do
206
00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:25.399
your job. That was five years prior to me being
207
00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:29.720
called in because quote unquote, this team was unmotivated. Not
208
00:11:29.759 --> 00:11:32.240
an unmotivated team, this was a team that experienced what
209
00:11:32.279 --> 00:11:36.240
psychologists call anti mattering. What happened is is when she
210
00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:38.960
got shut down, guess who she told she told her
211
00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:43.000
team guess what they did. They protected themselves. They said, well,
212
00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:45.720
what we do, what we say is not going to
213
00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:47.639
matter here, so why am I going to bother? It
214
00:11:47.679 --> 00:11:51.000
resulted in the most insidious force in an organization, which
215
00:11:51.039 --> 00:11:55.320
is learned helplessness. I've been conditioned to believe that I
216
00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:58.559
and what I do and what I say won't, can't,
217
00:11:58.840 --> 00:12:03.039
and never will matter. And learned helplessness is contagious in
218
00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:07.559
an organization. And that's the consequence. Just as mattering is
219
00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:12.320
created in moments, anti mattering is created in moments that
220
00:12:12.440 --> 00:12:15.960
supervisor probably doesn't even know that that one moment cascaded
221
00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:18.879
into the quote unquote motivation and turnover issues on their team.
222
00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:22.480
I never tire if you're telling that story. I think
223
00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:24.799
it's just so powerful and it really lays out just
224
00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:27.720
how insidious this is and just how it can live
225
00:12:27.879 --> 00:12:31.679
and just like catch fire in an organization. So you
226
00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:36.279
mentioned you know that that mattering happens in small, repeatable interactions,
227
00:12:36.279 --> 00:12:38.960
and of course you know for you, your model is that's
228
00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:42.600
through being helping people to feel noticed, affirmed, and needed.
229
00:12:42.679 --> 00:12:43.960
I'm going to go into we're going to go into
230
00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:46.000
more detail into into those but what I want to
231
00:12:46.039 --> 00:12:48.759
situate now before we go into the break, is I
232
00:12:48.799 --> 00:12:51.559
want our listeners and viewers to understand really the science
233
00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:54.039
behind what you've created here, this idea of mattering anti
234
00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:58.000
mattering significance. You know, the ways that you can actually
235
00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:00.720
start to address this, because otherwise people feel like, oh,
236
00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:03.399
it's so soft. I don't have those kinds of soft skills.
237
00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:06.399
Of course, we need human skills. And so if you
238
00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:09.519
could just say a little bit about noticing, affirming, and needing.
239
00:13:10.519 --> 00:13:13.679
Yes, So this is based on forty years of research.
240
00:13:14.120 --> 00:13:16.799
The concept of mattering has been around for forty years,
241
00:13:17.679 --> 00:13:21.639
and psychologists find that we feel that we matter when
242
00:13:21.639 --> 00:13:23.960
there are two things going on. When we feel valued,
243
00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:28.960
and then we know exactly how we add value. One