April 8, 2025

The Power of Mattering: How Leaders Can Create a Culture of Significance

The Power of Mattering: How Leaders Can Create a Culture of Significance

In a world where so many feel unseen, undervalued, and unheard, creating a culture where people know they matter is powerful—and essential. Join Dr. Zach Mercurio as he shares how mattering fuels performance, belonging, and well-being, and why this...

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In a world where so many feel unseen, undervalued, and unheard, creating a culture where people know they matter is powerful—and essential. Join Dr. Zach Mercurio as he shares how mattering fuels performance, belonging, and well-being, and why this often-overlooked leadership skill may be the most important one of the next generation. Building a culture of significance isn’t a nice-to-have—it’s a competitive advantage. Learn to lead with intention, create mattering, and inspire lasting impact.

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The topics and opinions express in the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests and not

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What's working on Purpose?

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Anyway? Each week we ponder the answer to this question.

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People ache for meaning and purpose at work, to contribute

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their talents passionately and know their lives really matter. They

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crave being part of an organization that inspires them and

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helps them grow into realizing their highest potential. Business can

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be such a force for good in the world, elevating humanity.

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In our program, we provide guidance and inspiration to help

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usher in this world we all want working on Purpose.

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Now here's your host, doctor Elise Cortes.

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Welcome back to the Working and Purpose Program, which has

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been brought to you with passionate and price since February

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of twenty fifteen. Thanks tuning it and again this week.

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Great to have you. I'm your host, doctor Leix Cortes.

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If we have not met before and you don't know me,

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I'm an organizational psychologist, management consultant, LOCO therapist, speaker and author,

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and my team and I at Gusto Now help companies

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to enliven and fortify their operations by building a dynamic,

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high performance culture and inspirational leadership activated by meaning and purpose.

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And did you know that inspired employees outperform their satisfied

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peers by factor of two point twenty five to one.

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In other words, inspiration is good for the bottom line.

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You can learn more about us on how we can

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work together at gustodeshnow dot com or my personal site

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at last Coortes dot com. Before we get into today's program,

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I am thrilled to announce that registration has been opened

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for a fabulous neoth conference for women which i'll service.

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The MC is called Thrive in twenty five and is

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a jam packed few days in Chicago June twenty fifth

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through the twenty eighth, twenty twenty five, and it's designed

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to devot women as whole selves from bolstering your mindset

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to your financial acumen, to leadership, to incorporating nature and

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art into your life to raise consciousness and much more.

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You can visit to Thrive in twenty five for information

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and to register. Use my promo code of Gusto all

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caps to gain access to the free books and programs.

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I'll be gifting registrants as well. See you there now.

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Today's program has with us Zach mccurio, our researcher, leadership development, facilitator,

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speaker specializing purposeful leadership, mattering and meaningful work. He is

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the author of the Power of Mattering, How leaders can

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create a Culture of Significance, which we'll be talking about today.

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He joins us from Port Collins, Colorado. Zach, welcome back,

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I think a third time to working on Purpose.

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Thanks, Elise, It's good to see you.

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You're right. I just really appreciate the work that you're

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doing in the world. You know, I'm a huge fan.

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Of course, I've been following you since at least twenty

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seventeen when you first book come out, So I'm in

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for this.

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Thank you.

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Yeah, you have at least one fat in your corner, Zach.

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You know that, Hey, all I need.

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Okay, Well, actually we have a lot of work to do,

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and I want to start with this notion that you

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have in your book, which I think is a good

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place for us to start. Is you talk about how

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we can't really have healthy organizations with unhealthy people in them.

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So let's start there. The idea of unhealthy organizations.

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Well, an organization is simply comprised of individual human beings

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who organize, So the health of an organization is really

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determined by the health of its individuals. A lot of

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the way that we've structured organizations and thought about organizations

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and led organizations since the industrial revolution has obsessively focused

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on lagging indicators productivity, performance, profit. All of those are

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lagging indicators. There is no performance metric that is not

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mediated through a human being. And how would you want

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that human being to feel to produce and perform. Most

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people would say, we want them to feel motivated, we

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want them to feel energized, we want them to feel

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that the work matters. We want them to feel that

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they matter. And when you start thinking like that, you'll

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realize that the leading indicator for every lagging indicator we

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want is human energy. And so I think the time

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is now for leaders to begin to think about how

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they're thinking about their organizations in terms of human energy.

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Are you regenerating the human energy needed to accomplish all

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the things you say you want to accomplish? And the

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answer in many of our organizations right now is no.

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I tend very much to agree, of course, because we're

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doing some similar kind of work. And I really like

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how you really situate, you know, really the importance for

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leaders or anyone who influences anyone. Course you say, filling

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people's fundamental need for significance isn't imperative. And so when

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I think about, like of other people on the podcast

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that I've talked about the experience of having really shotlet's

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just say, terrible leaders that had no idea of the

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negative impact and shrapnel that they were cascading through their

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organizations and through their people. On the other side of that,

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the opportunity to really lift lives on and love the

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word significance to be able to fuel their need for significance. So,

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if you could say a bit more about that particular

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need and why is it so important for leaders to

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impact that.

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Every single person that you lead was born searching for significance.

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It's a biological fact. The first thing you did as

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a human being was you reached your arms out for

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someone to care for you. In fact, scientists find that

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we have a reflex to grasp on to somebody a

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caretaker before we have a reflex to eat food. Well,

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nobody would be here listening to this show right now

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if we all did not matter enough to someone else

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to keep us alive. Now, as we grow up and

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grow into adulthood and go to work, that instinct, just

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like the instinct to eat or the instinct to sleep,

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does not go away because we clock in somewhere. We

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like to conveniently think that it does, but it does not.

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It turns into the fundamental need to feel seen, heard, valued,

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and needed by those around us, and so that need

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for significance. It is first and foremost a survival instinct.

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Someone on said to me, Zach, you know this is

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kind of the soft, touchy feely stuff, and I responded,

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it's just about as touchy phelia as feeding someone in

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front of you who's hungry.

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Uh.

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It is a prerequisite, and for leaders it's essential because

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if you want anything to matter to someone, they first

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have to believe that they matter. Think about the last

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time you felt energized to do something when you felt unimportant.

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If you want someone's voice, if you want someone to

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share their voice, they first have to believe their voice

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is significant. If you want your team members to use

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their strengths, they first have to believe they have them.

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If you want your team members to contribute, they first

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have to believe they're worthy of contributing. And that's why

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this fundamental need is I think the prerequisite. I don't

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think there's anything more important for a leader than showing

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people how they matter. If you're a leader, anytime you

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hear the word fundamental human need, you should be thinking,

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do I have that fundamental skill?

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Oh my gosh.

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A leader's craft is people. Leaders influence people. That's why

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I say anyone who influences anybody, so the best leaders

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hone their craft. They practice the fundamentals of being human.

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The fundamental need that all humans have is to matter,

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to feel significant.

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All right, Two things to that, Zach. One, I need

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you to tell the story about the the woman who

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every day cleaned the windows and then the sprinklers came on.

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So tell that story. And then the other thing I

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wanted to say is what I appreciate about the work

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that you do and then I get to do as well,

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is that when we do teach people to be able

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to use these kinds of skills, what happens is all

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of their relationships across their whole entire life as individuals

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improve radically. So whoever they're connected to, whoever they're loved,

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one is at home, if they have children, if they

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have pets, all of those relationships get better immediately too.

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I love it when I occasionally get an email from

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somebody's spouse saying thank you from what you're doing right,

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And it's so beautiful, right, and so lifting lives by

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being able to help develop and fortify these skills and

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leaders it's such a it's such a beautiful work to

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get to do.

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And I'm an optimist. I don't believe that any leader

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wakes up and is like I would like to be

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an uncaring leader today, right. I think we have many

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people in leadership positions who aren't trained right human skills.

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And what's what's hopeful about all this is that we

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can relearn these skills to see here value one another.

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And you're right, it makes us better people. But that's

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what being a leader is. When I ask people thousands

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of people, think about the most important impactful leader in

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your life, they do not talk about quarterly earnings reports,

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product launches, or achievements. They talk about feeling seen, heard

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and valued in everyday interactions. That's why you know. I

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often say the next your next great leadership act is

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your next interaction. And I think uncaring leaders happen because

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they're untrained. And I want to give you an example

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of what happens when a leader creates that environment, and

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I'll share the story of that woman, the window watcher.

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So just as mattering is a fundamental need, when that

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instinct is not met, our minds in our bodies react accordingly. Typically,

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what happens is we either withdraw also known as quiet, quitting, silencing, withholding,

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or react out in desperation, complaining, blaming, gossiping, other so

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called toxic behaviors. Are often cries for significance, reaching out

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for significance, And a perfect example of this is I

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was asked to work with a group of maintenance workers.

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One of their roles was to clean the windows of

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this bottom floor of this industrial complex in the summer,

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and this woman had her team go in every morning,

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and she was leading the team and had them do it. Now,

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the first week on the job, she noticed very soon

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that the reason she was going in there every day

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with her team was because the sprinkler system, the sprinkler

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heads on that system were aimed wrong. So at three

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pm every afternoon, the sprinkler system blasted on and blasted

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all the windows, left all of these avoidable water splotches.

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And this is why the client wanted them to come

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in every morning during the summer. So she was really excited.

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I mean, she came up to her supervisor and she said,

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you know, I have an idea. What if we aimed

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the sprinklers differently. What if we fix the sprinklers. That

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would completely save time and change the morale and the team.

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And the supervisor just said, that's the sprinkler people's problem,

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it's not our problem. I need you to just do

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your job. That was five years prior to me being

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called in because quote unquote, this team was unmotivated. Not

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an unmotivated team, this was a team that experienced what

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psychologists call anti mattering. What happened is is when she

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got shut down, guess who she told she told her

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team guess what they did. They protected themselves. They said, well,

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what we do, what we say is not going to

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matter here, so why am I going to bother? It

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resulted in the most insidious force in an organization, which

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is learned helplessness. I've been conditioned to believe that I

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and what I do and what I say won't, can't,

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and never will matter. And learned helplessness is contagious in

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an organization. And that's the consequence. Just as mattering is

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created in moments, anti mattering is created in moments that

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supervisor probably doesn't even know that that one moment cascaded

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into the quote unquote motivation and turnover issues on their team.

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I never tire if you're telling that story. I think

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it's just so powerful and it really lays out just

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how insidious this is and just how it can live

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and just like catch fire in an organization. So you

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mentioned you know that that mattering happens in small, repeatable interactions,

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and of course you know for you, your model is that's

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through being helping people to feel noticed, affirmed, and needed.

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I'm going to go into we're going to go into

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more detail into into those but what I want to

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situate now before we go into the break, is I

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want our listeners and viewers to understand really the science

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behind what you've created here, this idea of mattering anti

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mattering significance. You know, the ways that you can actually

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start to address this, because otherwise people feel like, oh,

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it's so soft. I don't have those kinds of soft skills.

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Of course, we need human skills. And so if you

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could just say a little bit about noticing, affirming, and needing.

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Yes, So this is based on forty years of research.

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The concept of mattering has been around for forty years,

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and psychologists find that we feel that we matter when

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there are two things going on. When we feel valued,

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and then we know exactly how we add value. One

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of the things I think that's really important before we

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get into the notice, affirmed and needed model, is to

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understand that typically we think that people must be valued

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once they add value. That's the typical performance merit based

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environment in which we've lived for the past fifty years.

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But psychologically, people have to feel value to add value, right.

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You can't expect someone to care until they feel cared for,

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and so researchers have found that mattering results from three things.

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When we're paid attention to, when we are shown that

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we are important, and when we feel essential when someone

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needs us. And so what we did is we went

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and interviewed hundreds of people and we worked in many

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different organizations from the US Army to large banks, and

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we asked, feel that you matter here with to a leader,

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what is happening? And there are three behaviors that consistently

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came about, the behaviors of being seen and heard noticed,

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the behaviors of being shown how your unique gifts make

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a unique difference, specifically affirmed, and being told and shown

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exactly how you and what you do is relied on needed.

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Those noticed, affirmed and needed model builds off of what

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we know creates mattering from forty years of research. But

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we've also tested this with thousands of employees in twenty

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two plus industries, and when we ask them what your

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leader does us, they all talk about small interactions in

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which someone pays attention to them, someone thanks them, shows

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them gratitude, and someone shows them how they're needed. And yes,

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they're all skills we can learn.

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It is it makes me happy to say just hearing that,

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and of course you know I'm completely in align with

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you on that, and that's what we're out, that's why

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we're on the planet right. So I know that your

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purpose is to help people feel significant, and I love

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that that's what you stand for. Let's grab our first break.

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I'm your host, doctor LEAs Cortes. We run your doctor

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Zach mccurio, researcher, leadership, development, facilitator, and speaker specializing in

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purposeful leadership, mattering, and meaningful work. We've been talking about

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a few of his concepts from his latest book, The

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Power of Mattering. After the break, we're going to learn

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about five sources of insignificance to get us started. We'll

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be right back.

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Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

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and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies

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visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

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leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

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commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

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Elise to speak to your organization, please visit her at

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Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your

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employees working on purpose. This is working on purpose with

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doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to

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open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Elise

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Alisee at Elisecortes dot com. Now back to Working on Purpose.

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Thanks for stating with us, and welcome back to working

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on Purpose. Some of your host doctor at least Cortes

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as I too, am dedicated to help them create a

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world where organizations thrive because their people thrive and are

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led by inspirational leaders that help them find and contribute

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their greatness, and we do business set betters the world.

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I keep researching and writing my own books, so my

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last one came out. It's called The Great Vitalization, How

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activating meaning and purpose can radically in liven your business.

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And I wrote it to help leaders understand today's workforce

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wants and needs and then offer twenty two best practices

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to equip them to provide that to them through their

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culture and leadership. You can learn about my books at

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my personal site at Leastquortes dot com or on Amazon

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if you are just now joining us. My guest is

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doctor Zach mccurio. He's the author of the Power of Mattering,

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How Leaders can create a culture of significance. So before

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we get into those five practices of insignificance, one thing

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I did want to share with listeners and viewers I

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thought was a pretty interesting way of thinking about how

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work has evolved over years. Is what you talk about

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as if I'm saying this person's name wrong, Minussha Fique,

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is that right? Former President of Columbia was talking about

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how we're really in a relationship economy and she said,

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in the past, she or he She said, in the

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past jobs were about muscles, and now and then there

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they were about brains, and now in the future they'll

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be about the heart. I think that's really really fascinating,

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especially when you consider how we are swaddled in AI

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and robotics and artificial intelligence and everything else, so that

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we are now moving to a place where work will

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be characterized by the heart.

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Yes, and uh, it's a natural evolution. I mean, all

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work was purposeful, right. Work was born as an active community.

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If my neighbor did not have shoes, I was a shoemaker.

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If my community needed food, I grew food. What happened

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is is that the shoemaker got put in a factory

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and said, hey, I'll give you this amount of money

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if you can tolerate just putting the sole on the

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shoe and not seeing the whole thing. Yeah, and that's

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where work as exchange happened well. And then we got

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into machinery and the industrial age, and then we found

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ways to automate everything, and got into the information age

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and connect everything. And now what's happening is that AI

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is eclipsing our operational and technical abilities, and all we're

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going to have left as human beings is the ability

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to make the person in front of us feel seen,

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herd value and needed. As of now, AI cannot mirror neurons,

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it cannot produce oxytocin, it cannot produce dopamine in interactions.

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So the most coveted skill for a leader is going

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to be to develop relationships in which people feel understood.

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And that's why I really agree with that sentiment that

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we're moving from the information age into the relationship age,

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where we're almost returning back to work as an act

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of community and relating to one another and contributing to

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one another. And that's why the mattering work fits so perfectly,

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because mattering happens when we feel valued by the community

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around us, and when we know exactly how we add

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value to their lives.

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Yeah, I mean to that end, Zach, I mean, I

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don't remember when this happened, but we started using the

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tagline at Gusto now of we're doubling down on humanity

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in the age of technology. So in SAE there's similar things.

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And some surveys from executives have said recently in the

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Age of AI that relational skills I mean, I think

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seventy percent in a reason survey and I'll send it

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to you said that relational skills would be more important

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to the future of their organization than technical ability. Yeah,

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and why is that right? Well, it's also because you know,

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as people have more options of where, when, and how

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to earn a living through gig work, or as we

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see educational attainment and literacy rates going up, people have

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more choice. As people have more choice, they're able to

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discern where and when they want to spend their time, right,

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and more people are discerning where they want to spend

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their time based on how they feel. So organizations that

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don't invest in this will also not have a labor

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force I reckon in fifty to one hundred years.

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Yeah, they're the easiest to displace for sure. Yeah, okay,

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so let's talk about those five sources of ben siepecans.

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The reason I like to do this sec I mean,

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some of this is like the other side of what

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you've been talking about, but it helps our listeners and viewers,

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as you know, to be able to start to recognize

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what this stuff looks like. So the first one, of course,

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is being unseen. What's it like to paint the picture

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for us? What's it like to feel unseen.

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I'll give an example from one of my studies that

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the first studies I've done, and I've talked to you

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about this many times, but around university cleaners. And I'll

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give you a very odd example that shows you the

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opposite of being unseen. But we asked a janitor to

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tell us about the most meaning full part of her job.

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And she was a janitor at a sports stadium and

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at a football game. She said that between quarters, someone

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had thrown up in the bathroom entrance, and she said,

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and she started telling me this, She said, she went

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to clean it, and as she was cleaning it, a

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line formed, and she said she put her mop in

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her bucket after she was done, and she walked past

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and as she was walking past, people in that line

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started thanking her, and she said, that was the most

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meaningful part of my career because it was the most

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amount of people who ever saw me. So the the

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what made the work meaningful for her was not this

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unpleasant task, it was being seen while doing it. Y.

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So being seen is literally being ignomined. Being unseen is

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being invisible. It's being forgotten. It's when you were absent

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for a meeting last week and nobody said they missed you.

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It's having someone saying, having someone not remember that your

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parent was in the hospital and that you're struggling with

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your energy levels so they pile on more projects to you.

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It's about you know, you do something every day that

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or it's about being an unsung hero. No organization should

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have unsung heroes, Donny think about it. So that's being seen.

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And to be seen is to be real as human beings,

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like we know that we're real that what we're doing matters.

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And that Janitor said that when she saw all those

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people seeing her actually looking at her, she said, uh, oh,

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I can keep doing this, I really can. And that's

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the motivational force of being seen.

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I've got to imagine a distant you know, cousin to

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that is of course the idea of being unheard.

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Yes, and being unheard is what happened with that? When

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washer yes, absolutely, and we share our voice, we're sharing

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part of ourselves. So when somebody doesn't listen to a voice,

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they're not listening to us yep, and that voice, that

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inner experience, when that's not able to be invited out,

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we feel unheard. And so that manifests in environments where

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people can't speak up because they're afraid. They're in environments

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where they get punished for making mistakes, where their reputation

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is tarnished if tarnished if they disagree, and you know,

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silence in an organization is one of the biggest indicators

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of an organization that fosters anti mattering.

429
00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:45.839
Yes, yeah, yeah, it's just there was a lot of

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activity today on LinkedIn about cultures of of you know,

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lacking psychological safety. Pretty interesting that that's kind of an

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interesting topic on a Tuesday. I add one little yeah, please.

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00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:05.680
Psychological safety is a topic that's gotten a lot of popularity.

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But all psychological safety is is childhood attachment in the workplace. Yeah,

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I know, this is odd for me to go here. No, No,

436
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mattering work was born out of attachment. So, for example,

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when you feel that you matter to a parent when

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you're a child, you're much more likely to be able

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to go out take risks, experiment and learn because you

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know you already matter. You can't screw up enough to

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not matter to somebody. Yeah, and you know one of

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the things that when I see, you know, knowing the

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research on attachment, when I go to someone's house and

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I see kids being loud in front of their parents

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without fear, I know there's secure attachment there.

446
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Yeah, I got you.

447
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And so psychological safety is really just adult attachment. It's

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knowing that I have a secure base, knowing that someone

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has my back, so I can go out, take experiment

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and learn. But we can't call it adult attachment because

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nobody would buy the books, right, But that's all it is.

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And that's why I just want to I just want

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to create this thread for your listeners, because it's very

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important to understand that these needs, the need to matter,

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maybe called different things. I call it mattering in disguise,

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but it all goes back to that child who's reaching

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out and grasping for significance.

458
00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:30.319
I really love that you did that that I didn't.

459
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:33.839
I didn't make that connection before. I think that's very powerful.

460
00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:36.440
In fact, what's been going through my mind through this conversation,

461
00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:39.559
Zach is we do this work really well together to

462
00:26:39.559 --> 00:26:44.799
help develop leaders capacity to be able to foster these skills,

463
00:26:44.839 --> 00:26:46.559
to be able to help people see how they matter.

464
00:26:47.079 --> 00:26:48.839
And now, what I think happens is we live in

465
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:52.640
safer societies. We live in places where maybe there's less crime,

466
00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:56.920
where people aren't hurting each other as much physically, emotionally,

467
00:26:56.960 --> 00:27:00.240
et cetera. And that's the kind of impact that I

468
00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:01.799
want to be part of it. When we help our

469
00:27:01.839 --> 00:27:05.000
leaders understand just the ripple effect of this. Please, it's

470
00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:07.759
really worth investing in working on developing this stuff. You

471
00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:08.279
can do this.

472
00:27:09.559 --> 00:27:12.599
Yeah, And I'm actually not trying to convince anybody anymore

473
00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:18.119
to invest in it. I'm essentially saying that you can't

474
00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:19.440
not invest in this anymore.

475
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:23.240
Yeah, Yeah, I compare with you all.

476
00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:26.720
Almost every human behavioral problem is the result of unmet

477
00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:33.319
needs and a lot of mental health And as you know,

478
00:27:33.880 --> 00:27:36.599
a lot of mental health professionals will tell you that

479
00:27:36.759 --> 00:27:40.599
most mental health struggles are the results of unmet needs.

480
00:27:43.039 --> 00:27:45.079
And we see that in works. And you know, we've

481
00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:49.720
talked about some of these sources, right, being unseen, being unheard.

482
00:27:50.759 --> 00:27:55.880
The other one is being unvalued, not knowing how your

483
00:27:55.960 --> 00:28:00.400
gifts make a difference, not having anybody say thank you.

484
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:02.279
I think there was a survey that said sixty percent

485
00:28:02.279 --> 00:28:07.720
of people have never had a boss that truly appreciates them. Yeah,

486
00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:12.720
feeling unvalued. Feeling forgotten is another source. This is feeling

487
00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:17.640
and this is interesting because this is for example, one

488
00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:21.400
woman who went on maternity leave said that one moment

489
00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:26.000
caused her to question her whole sense of self worth.

490
00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:28.440
And that was when she was going on maternity leave

491
00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:31.200
and her boss said, don't worry, everything will be fine

492
00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:37.039
without you. Yeah, and it was well intentioned, Yeah, really saying, hey,

493
00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:40.759
you don't matter that much here. Yeah, So being forgotten.

494
00:28:40.839 --> 00:28:44.039
And then the final one is feeling dispensable. When people

495
00:28:44.039 --> 00:28:47.440
feel replaceable, they'll act replaceable, but feeling that you and

496
00:28:47.480 --> 00:28:50.000
your efforts just don't matter, aren't needed.

497
00:28:51.079 --> 00:28:53.079
Yeah, and we can easily replace you. I mean, that's

498
00:28:53.160 --> 00:28:55.599
that language has been in the workplace for a long time, Right,

499
00:28:55.640 --> 00:28:57.559
we can easily replace you with somebody who actually wants

500
00:28:57.599 --> 00:28:59.880
to work for us, isn't.

501
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:03.039
What's so interesting is that the want to work for

502
00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:05.440
you comes when the person feels needed.

503
00:29:05.400 --> 00:29:09.400
Right right, I know, I get all of this. It's amazing. Okay,

504
00:29:09.400 --> 00:29:11.839
so let's talk here. Let's talk first a little bit

505
00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:14.279
about noticing it and really help our listeners and viewers

506
00:29:14.279 --> 00:29:16.400
start to get into the idea of how can they

507
00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:19.799
actually start to fold this practice into themselves, so help

508
00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:22.799
us gain some access to behaviors that they can use

509
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:23.480
for noticing.

510
00:29:24.599 --> 00:29:27.000
Well. One of the things that's important to know about

511
00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:29.960
all of these practices is that someone once said to me, Zach,

512
00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:32.400
is in this common sense, like why do you have

513
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:39.440
a job? Yeah, And unfortunately it's not common practice. Yeah right.

514
00:29:39.559 --> 00:29:42.039
There was a study by Work Human in twenty twenty

515
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:44.240
four that found that thirty percent of people feel invisible

516
00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:47.640
in work. Twenty five percent of those people, A quarter

517
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:50.359
of people said they felt quote unquote flat out ignored.

518
00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:54.319
And a lot of people say, well, Zach, I know

519
00:29:54.440 --> 00:29:56.920
my team. I know my team. There's a difference between

520
00:29:56.960 --> 00:29:59.920
knowing somebody and noticing them. You can know your BA

521
00:30:00.200 --> 00:30:02.640
friend but not notice that they're struggling. You can know

522
00:30:02.759 --> 00:30:05.519
your team but not notice that one of them is

523
00:30:05.559 --> 00:30:08.400
feeling left out of discussions, or maybe their energy level

524
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:10.079
is a little bit different that day, or they've been

525
00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:14.440
repeatedly struggling on a project. So noticing has two parts.

526
00:30:14.440 --> 00:30:17.839
It's seeing somebody and it's hearing them. Noticing is paying

527
00:30:17.839 --> 00:30:21.240
attention to the details, the ebbs, the flows of someone's life,

528
00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:24.640
and then offering an action to show them that they're

529
00:30:24.640 --> 00:30:28.759
thought about. A great example of this is I got

530
00:30:28.759 --> 00:30:30.640
to work with a distribution center and there was one

531
00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:35.519
manager for one team that was highly engaged when all

532
00:30:35.559 --> 00:30:38.400
of the other teams in the center were disengaged, and

533
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:40.440
we went to this team and I was just very

534
00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:43.279
curious because I wanted to know what was going on

535
00:30:43.400 --> 00:30:46.960
here in this outlier. I love outliers, and I asked

536
00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:48.400
the team, I said, what's going on here? And they

537
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:51.079
all said some version of Oh, it's our leader. She

538
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:53.559
just gets us. We'd do anything for her. And so

539
00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:55.720
I went to her and I said, well, what do

540
00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:59.200
you do? And she goes zack. Three years ago, I

541
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:02.480
realized that I was having trouble keeping track of my

542
00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:05.680
team members the details of their lives, and so I

543
00:31:05.720 --> 00:31:09.519
started this notebook. Now she has like ten of them right,

544
00:31:09.559 --> 00:31:11.960
and she writes down her team members' names on Fridays,

545
00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:13.880
and then she writes down one thing she heard them

546
00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:16.440
talk about, complain about a piece of equipment, they were

547
00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:19.720
struggling with a meeting, they were nervous about a kid

548
00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:22.160
who is starting a new sport. And on Monday, she said,

549
00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:24.880
I just start my week by looking at that list

550
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:27.880
and scheduling in my mind a three minute micro checking

551
00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:30.039
with each of them, and I'll say to them, I

552
00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:32.880
remember last week, you were nervous about that meeting. How

553
00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:36.880
was it got any? And she looked at me in

554
00:31:36.920 --> 00:31:39.799
this interview and she said, Zach, I realized there is

555
00:31:39.880 --> 00:31:41.319
magic and being remembered.

556
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:42.880
Yeah.

557
00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:44.720
But what I love about what she did is it's

558
00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:48.279
a practice. Yes, right, right right, That practice of noting

559
00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:51.839
was a way to pay attention. And that's really that

560
00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:56.200
captures the essence of this noticing practice, paying attention, asking

561
00:31:56.240 --> 00:32:01.759
good questions, remembering the details of people's lives, authentically checking

562
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:05.160
in on how they're doing and when they share with you,

563
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:06.960
making sure they feel heard.

564
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:10.400
Yeah, yeah, you know, you're reminding me, Zach. You know,

565
00:32:10.519 --> 00:32:12.000
a few years ago, I was doing some work with

566
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:14.480
a hospice organization on the East Coast, it was an

567
00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:20.400
engagement sort of survey kind of work and consulting, and

568
00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:23.200
what we discover it is there was so much disengagement

569
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:26.680
on the front lines because there were people that would say, gosh,

570
00:32:26.720 --> 00:32:28.720
I just want to as I'm walking down the hall

571
00:32:29.279 --> 00:32:31.839
when the CEO passes, I just want to. I just

572
00:32:31.880 --> 00:32:34.079
want them to say hello or even just smile at me.

573
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:37.880
But instead they just keep walking like I don't exist, right,

574
00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:41.480
I'm invisible. Just what you're talking about, it's so simple,

575
00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:43.400
Like I know you're busy and you're trying to get

576
00:32:43.559 --> 00:32:45.759
you're prepping for their next meeting and such. But notice

577
00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:49.359
the people that are walking past you. They you matter

578
00:32:49.559 --> 00:32:51.599
to those people. They would love to have a smile

579
00:32:51.640 --> 00:32:53.680
from you and acknowledgment a hello from you.

580
00:32:54.200 --> 00:33:00.359
Yes, hurry and care cannot coexist. Yeah, you cannot care

581
00:33:00.440 --> 00:33:03.400
about your people from afar. But there's a difference between

582
00:33:03.440 --> 00:33:06.519
caring about people and caring for them. Yes, I think

583
00:33:06.519 --> 00:33:09.240
this is missed. To care for anything, you have to

584
00:33:09.319 --> 00:33:13.359
understand it, and understanding takes time and it takes attention.

585
00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:16.480
And one of the things that is especially important to

586
00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:20.519
the noticing practice is retraining our mind to pay attention

587
00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:25.000
to people and that tool of noting, of having some tool,

588
00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:29.079
having some practice to turn this common sense idea into

589
00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:32.640
common practice is incredibly important.

590
00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:34.519
Oh, I want to share a story that I just

591
00:33:34.519 --> 00:33:36.839
saw on Facebook. But we'll scrab it. We'll scrab our

592
00:33:36.920 --> 00:33:39.559
last prat before I do that. I'm your host, Doctor

593
00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:42.079
Early's Cortes. We are on the area with doctor zachs Mercurio.

594
00:33:42.119 --> 00:33:45.759
I'm a research leadership, development facilitator and a speaker specializing

595
00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:49.319
in purposeful leadership, mattering and meaningful work. We've been getting

596
00:33:49.359 --> 00:33:51.720
into the more of the details of his as his

597
00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:54.039
mattering model and the various practices that you can start

598
00:33:54.039 --> 00:33:56.119
to learn to fold in. After the break, we're going

599
00:33:56.119 --> 00:33:58.200
to move on to the next practice, which is affirming.

600
00:33:58.319 --> 00:33:59.079
We'll be right back.

601
00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:17.920
Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

602
00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:21.800
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies

603
00:34:21.880 --> 00:34:25.679
visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

604
00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:29.719
leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

605
00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:33.000
commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

606
00:34:33.000 --> 00:34:35.760
a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her

607
00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:39.079
at Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

608
00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:47.880
your employees working on purpose. This is Working on Purpose

609
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:49.519
with doctor Elise Cortes.

610
00:34:49.760 --> 00:34:50.360
To reach our.

611
00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:53.400
Program today or to open a conversation with Elise, send

612
00:34:53.400 --> 00:34:58.719
an email to Elise A. L Se at Elisecortes dot com.

613
00:34:58.760 --> 00:35:07.519
Now back to work on Purpose. Interesting with us and

614
00:35:07.559 --> 00:35:09.639
welcome back to Working on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor

615
00:35:09.639 --> 00:35:12.119
Ales Cortes. I mentioned in the last break that my

616
00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:14.480
book came out, The Great Vitalization. What I did for

617
00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:16.880
you is I created a very simple three page assessment

618
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:19.760
that will tell you the extent to what your practices

619
00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:22.559
are meeting the needs of Fay's discerning workforce. You can

620
00:35:22.599 --> 00:35:26.079
find it at my website Gusto dashanel dot com if

621
00:35:26.119 --> 00:35:27.000
you're just now joining us.

622
00:35:27.000 --> 00:35:29.039
My guest is Zach mccurie, who's the author of the

623
00:35:29.079 --> 00:35:32.199
Power of Mattering, How leaders can create a culture of significance.

624
00:35:33.039 --> 00:35:34.920
So the story I wanted to share with you based

625
00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:38.920
on the idea of noticing paying attention to your people.

626
00:35:38.920 --> 00:35:41.159
I just saw this on Facebook today and it's pretty powerful.

627
00:35:41.159 --> 00:35:44.159
With the story is that a woman, a manager you know,

628
00:35:44.199 --> 00:35:46.039
had been noticing her or one of her employees who

629
00:35:46.039 --> 00:35:47.599
was really starting to follow down on the job. She

630
00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:51.360
was coming in late and just not really really focusing much,

631
00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:53.239
and so she gave her three strikes and then she

632
00:35:53.320 --> 00:35:57.039
fired her. And then she overheard some of the other

633
00:35:57.079 --> 00:36:00.239
employees talking about this employee and saying, gosh, you oh,

634
00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:02.960
you know, her son is dealing with some kind of

635
00:36:03.000 --> 00:36:07.440
major illness. She's lost her apartment. She doesn't she's sleeping

636
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:11.199
in her car. And she realized, oh, my gosh, I

637
00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:13.000
was saying, you know, she's not doing all these things,

638
00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:15.960
but I wasn't really noticing what was going on with her,

639
00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:19.119
and so I went to go look for her. She'd

640
00:36:19.119 --> 00:36:21.280
been on the street. She'd been getting you know, food

641
00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:23.840
given to her on the streets, and I went looking

642
00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:26.599
for her in various places, and they people would say, oh,

643
00:36:26.639 --> 00:36:28.280
she was here weeks or two days ago, but I

644
00:36:28.280 --> 00:36:30.840
don't know where she is now. But ultimately she does

645
00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:33.400
catch up with her and she finds her. She finds

646
00:36:33.800 --> 00:36:36.360
her and her young son sleeping in the car on

647
00:36:36.400 --> 00:36:39.360
the street, and she comes up and knocks on the window,

648
00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:45.119
and you know, the woman is obviously startled, and she's wondering,

649
00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:47.239
you know, why she's there. But the woman says, I'm

650
00:36:47.239 --> 00:36:49.320
here to give you your job back. I'm so sorry.

651
00:36:49.360 --> 00:36:51.639
I didn't know what she were dealing with, and she did,

652
00:36:51.639 --> 00:36:54.480
she brought her back. But talk about the power of Wow,

653
00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:58.599
what if you had noticed what's if you would simply inquired,

654
00:36:58.679 --> 00:37:01.079
what's going on? Why is that you're coming in late

655
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:03.760
each day? Was there something happening at home? How can

656
00:37:03.800 --> 00:37:07.559
I help? Right? So, this noticing stuff is pretty powerful.

657
00:37:08.119 --> 00:37:10.639
Yeah. Most people do not need to be fixed or punished.

658
00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:15.239
They need to be understood right, right, And that is

659
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:19.679
such a powerful example of that before you evaluate, are

660
00:37:19.679 --> 00:37:20.519
you understanding?

661
00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:25.280
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, So the affirming piece. Let's talk about

662
00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:28.239
this one of the things I'll say, you know definitely.

663
00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:29.800
I don't know if you used or not. But when

664
00:37:29.800 --> 00:37:31.760
I got divorced in twenty sixteen, I took a job

665
00:37:31.760 --> 00:37:36.000
at another company for a while, and what I really realized,

666
00:37:36.039 --> 00:37:39.199
they're great company, really a fantastic organization. I love their culture,

667
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:42.960
I love their work. But I definitely was not at

668
00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:45.159
all using all of my talents, be able to know

669
00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:46.960
what my talents were. People have no idea what I

670
00:37:47.000 --> 00:37:49.320
could do, and it's definitely part of the reason I

671
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:49.800
didn't stay.

672
00:37:51.679 --> 00:37:56.800
Absolutely, So a lot of organizations have appreciation or recognition programs.

673
00:37:57.199 --> 00:37:59.360
But it's very important for leaders to understand the difference

674
00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:03.719
between a preciation, recognition, and affirmation because what you're talking

675
00:38:03.719 --> 00:38:07.360
about is an affirmation gap. Yeah, Because appreciation is showing

676
00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:10.880
general gratitude for who someone is. Recognition is showing general

677
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:14.599
gratitude for what someone does. But affirmation is showing people

678
00:38:14.719 --> 00:38:19.480
how their uniqueness makes a unique difference. Specific A program

679
00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:25.559
can't affirm somebody, right, A pay or perks cannot affirm somebody.

680
00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:29.760
People affirm people. And there are two sides of affirmation.

681
00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:34.239
One is showing people their uniqueness and two is showing

682
00:38:34.280 --> 00:38:38.559
people how they make a unique difference. Yeah, And there

683
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:41.239
are four gifts everybody gives us every day. And I

684
00:38:41.360 --> 00:38:45.079
use the word gifts because it's things people freely give us.

685
00:38:45.519 --> 00:38:48.159
They give us their strength, what they love to do

686
00:38:48.199 --> 00:38:51.760
and what they're good at. They give us their purpose

687
00:38:52.559 --> 00:38:55.400
the impact them and they make. They give us their

688
00:38:55.400 --> 00:38:57.679
perspective how only they see the world, and they give

689
00:38:57.760 --> 00:39:00.000
us their wisdom what only they can teach us because

690
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:02.079
only they have lived their life and had their career.

691
00:39:03.280 --> 00:39:06.400
And great leaders tend to illuminate in others what they

692
00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:11.559
don't see in themselves and can name here is the

693
00:39:11.599 --> 00:39:13.639
difference that you make and how you make it. One

694
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:15.360
of the great ways to do that is that if

695
00:39:15.400 --> 00:39:17.920
you're going to say thank you to somebody instead of

696
00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:20.199
just saying hey, thanks, good job at the same time

697
00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:24.239
every day, show someone the difference they make and exactly

698
00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:27.559
how they make it. Say I see these here's the

699
00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:31.199
perspective you offered, and here's why it's valuable. Here are

700
00:39:31.239 --> 00:39:34.280
your strengths I saw, here's your impact that I saw,

701
00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:38.599
Here's the wisdom that I felt and heard, and just

702
00:39:38.679 --> 00:39:40.880
that can go an incredibly long way.

703
00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:44.840
Yeah. One of the things I like to say when

704
00:39:44.840 --> 00:39:47.960
I'm working with leaders to help develop them, especially around

705
00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:51.079
this idea of affirmation, is when you can talk with

706
00:39:51.119 --> 00:39:53.079
somebody in a way and help them see how much

707
00:39:53.360 --> 00:39:56.000
they have uniquely made a difference, and you move them

708
00:39:56.039 --> 00:39:57.639
to tears, you've done it really well.

709
00:39:57.880 --> 00:39:58.079
Yeah.

710
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:00.559
Somebody said, oh, you want me to make people cry.

711
00:40:00.599 --> 00:40:02.840
I said, I didn't say make people cry. I said

712
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:05.679
I want you to ideally move toward being able to

713
00:40:06.079 --> 00:40:07.760
win the tears. Big difference.

714
00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:10.400
You know. That reminds me. I like to say that

715
00:40:10.519 --> 00:40:14.519
affirming leaders give people the indisputable evidence of their significance.

716
00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:15.840
Oh that's gorgeous.

717
00:40:15.920 --> 00:40:19.000
So someone can't argue with it, and that's where you

718
00:40:19.000 --> 00:40:21.599
get that emotion. One of the leaders at the National

719
00:40:21.639 --> 00:40:23.920
Park Service that I worked with, he worked in facilities

720
00:40:23.960 --> 00:40:27.760
management and he managed a facility steam and a very remote,

721
00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:31.800
difficult to manage area of the National Parks and he

722
00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:33.920
had some of the highest morale and the whole park service.

723
00:40:34.079 --> 00:40:35.960
And so we once to understand what was going on.

724
00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:38.679
I told you, I love the outliers. And one of

725
00:40:38.719 --> 00:40:40.159
the things he told me is he had a practice

726
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:42.480
on Fridays where he would go around the park during

727
00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:45.519
a week and he'd take pictures of visitors walking over

728
00:40:45.559 --> 00:40:48.480
a bridge that was repaired using there was a shorter

729
00:40:48.559 --> 00:40:50.400
line for a bathroom because one of them was fixed

730
00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:53.119
and opened. He'd take a picture and he would have

731
00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:55.119
a practice on Friday. He would just send his team

732
00:40:56.440 --> 00:40:58.719
an email message with all of these pictures in it,

733
00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:07.159
and all he wrote is look what you did. That's it.

734
00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:10.760
It was the indisputable evidence. Oh like I matter. And

735
00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:13.000
this is the difference between organizations that say they have

736
00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:17.639
a purpose, yeah, and organizations that show people every day

737
00:41:18.280 --> 00:41:21.840
how they deliver that purpose. Yeah.

738
00:41:22.519 --> 00:41:26.320
Oh so good. Okay, we're coming close to the end

739
00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:27.239
of the show, and I want to make sure and

740
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:28.639
get at least a couple more things out of you.

741
00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:30.880
So let's talk about the last arm of it, and

742
00:41:30.920 --> 00:41:31.599
that's needing.

743
00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:37.760
Yeah. In nineteen thirteen, French agricultural engineer, his name was

744
00:41:37.800 --> 00:41:40.920
Max Ringelman. He did this study and he had individual

745
00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:43.159
students pull on a rope as hard as they could,

746
00:41:43.159 --> 00:41:45.679
and he attached this rope to a dyna animeter. It's

747
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:47.920
a device that measures force, so like how hard they're

748
00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:51.039
pulling on the rope. And then he put these individual

749
00:41:51.079 --> 00:41:53.639
students into groups and he had the groups pull on

750
00:41:53.679 --> 00:41:55.639
the ropes as hard as they could, and he measured

751
00:41:55.639 --> 00:41:59.719
the force readings and he added them up. And you know,

752
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:02.800
who do you think exerted the most total force? Individuals

753
00:42:02.920 --> 00:42:05.360
or groups? Most people would say, oh, it's obviously the groups.

754
00:42:05.880 --> 00:42:10.960
Who was the individuals every single time? Why? Because they

755
00:42:11.079 --> 00:42:17.440
knew that they and their effort was indispensable. When we

756
00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:22.400
feel that we matter, we act like we matter. The

757
00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:25.480
flip side is true, when we feel replaceable, as I

758
00:42:25.559 --> 00:42:33.039
mentioned earlier, we will act replaceable. So we are born interdependent.

759
00:42:33.960 --> 00:42:38.559
Interdependent people don't like this word dependence, but interdependent means

760
00:42:39.400 --> 00:42:43.480
needed by others. That's the translation. So if you use

761
00:42:43.519 --> 00:42:45.519
that word and you believe that we're interdependent, you know

762
00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:49.639
that we're needed by others and we are wired to

763
00:42:49.679 --> 00:42:53.920
feel needed. So, you know, when we ask people you know,

764
00:42:54.119 --> 00:42:57.039
who is a leader in your life that's helped you

765
00:42:57.039 --> 00:43:00.480
feel that you matter, they frequently mention, you know, some

766
00:43:00.760 --> 00:43:03.519
version of five words that I like to say all

767
00:43:03.559 --> 00:43:08.559
the time, if it wasn't for you, Yeah, that their

768
00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:11.039
leader or someone in their lives said, Hey, I just

769
00:43:11.039 --> 00:43:12.960
want to let you know, if it wasn't for you,

770
00:43:13.159 --> 00:43:15.559
this wouldn't be possible. And this works in our personal

771
00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:17.679
lives to imagine that feedback you get it wasn't for you,

772
00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:19.360
I wouldn't have this job, it wasn't for you. I

773
00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:21.360
wouldn't have moved here. If it wasn't for you, I

774
00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:25.400
wouldn't have gotten through this week. And you know, I

775
00:43:25.480 --> 00:43:29.239
believe that there is no more powerful feeling as a

776
00:43:29.320 --> 00:43:33.960
human being than knowing that just one person relies on

777
00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:34.639
your presence.

778
00:43:37.800 --> 00:43:41.880
Yeah, it's huge, it's really huge. Okay, So there's two

779
00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:43.159
things I want to I want to I want to

780
00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:45.480
do before we have to conclude, and that is first,

781
00:43:45.559 --> 00:43:47.840
if you could just say a bit about now that

782
00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:50.320
we've been really situating, I think everybody that's been listening

783
00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:54.320
and hearing this would say that, all right, I get

784
00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:56.960
the importance of this, but how do I scale it

785
00:43:57.000 --> 00:43:59.320
and create a culture of significance? So I know that

786
00:43:59.320 --> 00:44:02.320
that's you've got a chapter devoted to that. Can you

787
00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:04.480
just kind of talk us through briefly what that would

788
00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:04.920
look like.

789
00:44:05.559 --> 00:44:07.960
Yes. One is you have to foster the motivation to

790
00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:10.800
do it, and really you can't just say, hey, we're

791
00:44:10.840 --> 00:44:13.119
doing some mattering stuff now. Everybody needs to tell people

792
00:44:13.159 --> 00:44:15.440
how they matter or hey, we're going to start focusing

793
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:19.599
on collaboration. Right. That's like telling someone who wants to

794
00:44:19.639 --> 00:44:21.920
eat better, hey, go search how to eat better. They

795
00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:24.800
get overwhelmed and they don't know where to go. We

796
00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:28.559
have to make it real for people, and one of

797
00:44:28.599 --> 00:44:30.280
the ways you can make it real is to have

798
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:33.000
them think about, have your leaders think about the time

799
00:44:33.039 --> 00:44:35.000
in their life when they most believe they matter to

800
00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:37.920
someone else, and have them share what that person was doing.

801
00:44:39.599 --> 00:44:42.480
And then your charge is to say we're going to

802
00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:46.199
do that for the people that we serve, and that

803
00:44:46.280 --> 00:44:49.400
gives people a real emotional anchor. The second is make

804
00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:54.159
sure you're developing the right skills. So make sure you're

805
00:44:54.239 --> 00:44:59.440
naming and developing the right skills, and measure those skills right.

806
00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:02.559
Some way for leaders to self assess and then have

807
00:45:02.679 --> 00:45:05.639
some way for their teams to assess them. On behaviors.

808
00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:08.519
One of the mistakes I think we make is we

809
00:45:08.559 --> 00:45:14.679
assess people on emotional ideas like engagement or satisfaction. When

810
00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:17.280
you do those things, they're important, but they're lagging indicators.

811
00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:19.880
When you measure engagement, you're measuring how someone felt when

812
00:45:19.880 --> 00:45:24.199
they took a survey. When you measure the behaviors, your

813
00:45:24.280 --> 00:45:27.159
leader isn't acting to help you feel seen. You're measuring

814
00:45:27.239 --> 00:45:31.400
something that can be changed. It's the leading indicatory. Measure behaviors,

815
00:45:31.400 --> 00:45:36.079
measure skills. And then finally, I would say, make sure

816
00:45:36.119 --> 00:45:39.440
that you're scanning your environment and making these things possible.

817
00:45:40.280 --> 00:45:43.639
If you run a distribution center, you cannot tell people

818
00:45:43.719 --> 00:45:46.639
your leaders to go care for people. If they are

819
00:45:46.679 --> 00:45:49.679
managing people with scan guns, with GPS trackers that track

820
00:45:49.719 --> 00:45:52.360
every hour of their day, your environment does not make

821
00:45:52.400 --> 00:45:54.960
it possible to care. So what you need to do

822
00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:57.360
is scan your environment and make sure your environment makes

823
00:45:57.360 --> 00:46:00.599
it possible that people can do these behaviors. And once

824
00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:03.320
you start doing this, and once you start measuring it,

825
00:46:03.760 --> 00:46:07.119
you'll quickly see that people start having better conversations. The

826
00:46:07.159 --> 00:46:10.199
conversation doesn't become how can we get people to produce more?

827
00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:12.760
How can we get people to be more engaged? The

828
00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:15.719
conversation among leaders becomes who do we need to see more?

829
00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:18.880
Who do we need to notice more? Who's maybe unheard?

830
00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:21.119
Who do we need to affirm more? Who do we

831
00:46:21.159 --> 00:46:23.360
need to show that they're needed so that they can

832
00:46:23.360 --> 00:46:24.199
get the numbers up?

833
00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:29.000
M okay. So I like to maybe close with this.

834
00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:31.639
I love this and have have you respond to this?

835
00:46:31.679 --> 00:46:35.320
Sac I just you talk about There's a Navajo proverb

836
00:46:35.400 --> 00:46:37.800
that you open the chapter with, and it says that

837
00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:40.559
wisdom reminds us that our assumption drives our actions, and

838
00:46:40.639 --> 00:46:44.639
too often we underestimate how much people feel unvalued, how

839
00:46:44.719 --> 00:46:48.159
much they feel unseen and unheard, and how lonely they are,

840
00:46:48.519 --> 00:46:50.679
the result is that we can overlook their practices and

841
00:46:50.719 --> 00:46:53.519
actions that can alleviate these feelings. Here's a good rule

842
00:46:53.559 --> 00:46:56.960
for every single leader. Always assume the people around you

843
00:46:57.079 --> 00:47:03.360
feel unseen, undervalued, and lonely, and act accordingly. Would you

844
00:47:03.400 --> 00:47:04.800
comment on that, and I'll be our clothes.

845
00:47:05.119 --> 00:47:09.000
Navo proverb is a proverb on hospitality, and it says,

846
00:47:09.000 --> 00:47:11.239
always assume your guest is tired, cold, and hungry, and

847
00:47:11.239 --> 00:47:13.880
act accordingly. Think about the service that you would provide

848
00:47:13.960 --> 00:47:17.679
if you assumed that. Imagine what your next interaction would

849
00:47:17.679 --> 00:47:20.280
look like. If you assumed that that person felt lonely,

850
00:47:20.360 --> 00:47:22.920
they felt unseen, they felt unhard, you would show up

851
00:47:23.039 --> 00:47:25.840
much differently. And I think that's the impetus, right. We

852
00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:29.119
have an underestimation bias as leaders. As people, we tend

853
00:47:29.119 --> 00:47:31.039
to think that not too many people want to talk

854
00:47:31.079 --> 00:47:34.000
to us. We tend to think that a simple thank

855
00:47:34.039 --> 00:47:36.719
you note won't mean much. But in study after study,

856
00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:40.880
we underestimate our impact and so we don't act. But

857
00:47:41.000 --> 00:47:43.000
now is the time we need to act. More people

858
00:47:43.039 --> 00:47:45.679
than never feel unseen, more people than ever feel unheard,

859
00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:48.719
more people than ever feel lonely, and the driving force

860
00:47:48.760 --> 00:47:50.719
of that is that they don't feel like they matter.

861
00:47:50.800 --> 00:47:53.719
We're facing a mattering deficit, and the solution resides in

862
00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:54.679
your next interaction.

863
00:47:57.000 --> 00:47:58.840
What a beautiful way to finish sach You are a

864
00:47:58.880 --> 00:48:01.320
gift to the planetat to know you, to learn from

865
00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:03.000
you to be inspired by you. Thank you for coming

866
00:48:03.039 --> 00:48:04.280
back on working on Purpose.

867
00:48:04.760 --> 00:48:07.000
Thank you Elise Always.

868
00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:08.840
Listeners and viewers, you're going to want to learn more

869
00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:11.079
about Zach McCurry or the work that he does facilitating

870
00:48:11.159 --> 00:48:13.960
leadership and culture development and his latest book, The Power

871
00:48:13.960 --> 00:48:17.000
of Mattering, so start by going to one of his sites,

872
00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:21.239
it's Powerofmattering dot com. Last week, if you missed the

873
00:48:21.280 --> 00:48:23.840
live show we were on with Howard Lewis talking about

874
00:48:23.840 --> 00:48:26.880
his offline philosophy and his book Leave Your Phone at

875
00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:30.239
the Door. It was a delightfully mischievous conversation about how

876
00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:34.280
we can all benefit by embracing serendipity, randomness and the

877
00:48:34.360 --> 00:48:37.000
joy available in the every day. Next week will be

878
00:48:37.079 --> 00:48:39.960
on the air with Christopher Wong, Michaelson and Jennifer Tosti

879
00:48:40.039 --> 00:48:42.800
Karus talking about their new book The Meaning and Purpose

880
00:48:42.840 --> 00:48:46.440
of Work and interdiscpilinary Face framework for considering what work

881
00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:50.559
is for What work is for? It promises to be

882
00:48:50.679 --> 00:48:53.400
a fascinating and inspiring conversation. See you there, and remember

883
00:48:53.559 --> 00:48:55.440
work is one of the best adventures and means of

884
00:48:55.480 --> 00:48:58.280
realizing our potential and making the impact we crave and

885
00:48:58.360 --> 00:49:00.159
can give us The opportunity to do business in a

886
00:49:00.199 --> 00:49:02.760
way that betters the world. So let's work on Purpose.

887
00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:08.639
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to

888
00:49:08.679 --> 00:49:12.360
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,

889
00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:15.800
each week on W four CY. Together we'll create a

890
00:49:15.800 --> 00:49:20.440
world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires and passion performance

891
00:49:20.519 --> 00:49:23.280
and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning

892
00:49:23.320 --> 00:49:27.119
and purpose they crave See you there, Let's work on Purpose.