Feb. 25, 2025

The Hidden Costs of Forced Office Returns: Why Productivity and Well-Being Are Suffering

The Hidden Costs of Forced Office Returns: Why Productivity and Well-Being Are Suffering

In the rush to mandate full-time office returns, many leaders are ignoring a hard truth: The workforce has fundamentally changed. The quiet, focused environment of remote work rewired our brains—making the noisy, distraction-filled office a...

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In the rush to mandate full-time office returns, many leaders are ignoring a hard truth: The workforce has fundamentally changed. The quiet, focused environment of remote work rewired our brains—making the noisy, distraction-filled office a productivity killer. Forcing employees back may seem like a win, but at what cost? This episode unpacks the real impact on satisfaction, stress, and the very productivity companies think they’re restoring. Guest: Monica Mitchell.

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The topics and opinions express in the following show are

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What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the

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answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose

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at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their

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lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization

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that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their

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highest potential. Business can be such a force for good

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in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide

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guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we

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all want working on Purpose. Now here's your host, doctor

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Elise Cortes.

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Welcome back to your Working on Breakfast program, which has

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been brought to you with passionate and pride since February

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of twenty fifteen. Thanks for tuning and again this week.

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Great to have you. I'm your host, Doctor Earlies Cortes,

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and if we've not met before, I'm an organizational psychologist,

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management consultant, logo therapist, a speaker and author. My team

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and I at Gusto Now help companies to enliven and

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fortify their operations by building a dynamic, high performance culture

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and inspirational leadership activated by meaning and purpose. Did you

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know that inspired employees outperform their satisfied peers by factor

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of two point twenty five two one. In other words,

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inspiration is good for the bottom line. You'll learn more

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about us now. We can work together at gustodashnow dot

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com or my personal site of these Couretes dot com.

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Before we get into today's program, I'm thrilled to announce

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that registration is open for a fabulous to in conference

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for women for which I'll serve as the MC. It's

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called Thrive in twenty five and a jam packed few

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days in Chicago June twenty fifth to the twenty eight,

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twenty twenty five designed to develop women as whole selves,

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from bolstering your mindset to your financial acumen, to leadership,

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to incorporating nature and art into your life, to your

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ways of consciousness, and much more. You can visit thrive

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in twenty five for information and to register. Use my

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different books and programs. I'll be giving registrants as well.

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See you there today. With us is Monica Mitchell, who

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has built a thirty year career at AT and T,

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where she moved seven times. Today she leads an organization

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of one hundred and twenty employees that manages a thirty

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billion dollars software development portfolio. She also leads the Agile,

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CYOE and Change leadership team that is passionate about employee

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development and mentoring and making real transformation happen. We'll be

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talking about how the workforce has changed in the last

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few years and how we can design a workplace that

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meets the needs and wants of today and tomorrow's workforce.

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To jo to today from Dallas, Monica, Welcome to Working

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on Purpose.

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Thank you, I'm glad to be here.

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It's fun, you know soon to d that too. I

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was like, she's hopelessly wickets smart. I know we could

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have a very intelligent conversation when you totally you're working

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on a PhD. My I totally have to talk to her.

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So let's start there. Remind me what you're studying in

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your PhD?

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And where working on? A Doctor of Business Administration with

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William Howard Taft University out of Denver, Okay.

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And why do we do this? You know there, you've

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got a family, You've got a big career. I mean,

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why did this is?

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What?

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You know we did call this crazy making manica?

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Yeah, it really is.

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Yeah.

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No. I took a job a few years back with

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AT and T leading something we called flex Force and

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tended to have hundreds of our college new hires or

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people three to ten years in the company, and they

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wanted mentorship and guidance on their career. And I learned

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that that was one of my favorite jobs and that

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teaching them what I had learned over twenty to thirty

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years was very for filling. And I started looking at

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the breadth and depth of my career and all the

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opportunities that this great company had given me. And you know,

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I've done landline, wireless video, participated in the iPad, the iPhone,

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these industry changing things and when you go to business schools,

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the Harvard Business Cases and all of those at and

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T is in every textbook, and I thought, I have

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lived this, and who better to teach rising business students

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than somebody who was there. But I didn't have the

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credential to break into teaching. So sitting at home during

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the pandemic, why not get online degree so that I

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can go and share all of this wealth of experience

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with young people who are really wanting to know brilliant.

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I love that. And I know we talked about your dissertation,

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but remind me what you want to research or are researching.

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I'm researching the impact of return to office on really employees,

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and that can be anything from financial to what they

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need to make it worth it to them to come

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back to the office and put all that effort in.

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And you know there are a number of things they

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need besides just financial economic benefits, which I think we're

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going to talk about a little bit today.

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Yeah, for sure, I love that. That's right, exactly right, Okay.

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I mean I loved my pursuing on my PhD, and

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I love teaching as well, so you know I'm already

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already in sync with you. Okay, So one of the

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things I thought was interesting about in an article that

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I read was it was talking about, of course, you know,

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they've been going through through the pandemic and coming to

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understand it and so doing we had been through a

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car crash together. We've survived a car crash. It was

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so there's so many things about that. So I want

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this first part of our conversation to stitch kind of

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you know, we knew humans and where we've come from

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the last few years. So one of the things I've

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noticed is that it's very hard now today to get

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people to come out for any kind of events. I

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don't care if you're offering them food, drink, it's free.

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It's just people. Prying people out of their homes has

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been hard. What have you noticed around just the socialization

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aspect since the pandemic.

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You know, when we all got sent home, it was hard.

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As a manager. I had to plan virtual happy hours

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and lunches because my people felt so disconnected and trapped

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in their homes and they didn't know how to act.

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And we were doing that once twice a week just

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to help them adjust. Well, over time, they did adjust

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and we went to once a month and then they

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didn't need it at all, right, And then we asked

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them to come back, and they're like, I could get

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sick if I come back. And we finally get them

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back and they're telling us they're physically and emotionally uncomfortable. Yeah,

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it's not only the car crash of the pandemic. There's

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a car crash to coming back and what's causing that.

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Yeah, and I want to definitely cover that when we

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get into the second part of this conversation. One of

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the things that I'm also present to is and I

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noticed it too. I have been working from home for

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years in might for my business. But what people began

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to notice is how much time they had spent in

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that commute. And I remember a conversation Monica when there

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was a discussion or at least some articles being floated about,

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is should could people actually consider their commute time as

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part of their workday because they recognized how much and

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up to ninety minutes two hours a day in commute time.

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Now that could be repurposed if you're actually not going

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to the office.

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And in fact, many people did work extra hours because

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they can get out of bed go straight to their computer.

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As we asked them to come back. We are seeing

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some drops in productivity because they're back on the road.

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Interesting. That's very interesting.

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You know.

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One of the other things that I was present to

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and I wrote about it in my first book Purpose

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Ignited It Behind Me, which came out of November in

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twenty twenty, is I really also discovered in my research

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that during the pandemic, when people had all that quote

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down time, or at least alone time, it took stock

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of their lives and they thought about what they really wanted,

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and a lot of people found their overall lives and

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their work lives less than what they wanted. They didn't

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want to go back to the streaming boss. They didn't

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want to go back to work that maybe wasn't just

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fulfilling or interesting. So already we had this notion of

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people saying, huh, you know, I think I'm going to

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go ahead and leave this industry now. And so curious,

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what kind of research have you come across in terms

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of how people have reevaluated their lives and their work.

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I think they not only reevaluated their lives and their works.

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I think to some degree, employers brought this on themselves, right,

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we sold building saved money, even boasted that we didn't

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see ever going back to the way things were. We

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got an increase in productivity because people were spending all

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that drive time working, and we weren't counting on the

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lack of collaboration and innovation that may come with that

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because we didn't see that at first. We just saw

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the productivity that we were getting and the money that

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we were saving by not paying electric bills and getting

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rid of buildings and making those statements to employees. They

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believed us, We're never going back, and so some of

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them said, I could live further away from the office

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and save money on my mortgage. They did. Some of

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them moved to another state to take care of an

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aging parent or to be near grandchildren because they believed us.

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Now we ask them to come back. That's a major

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life decision, particularly if the company doesn't want to fund it, right,

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And so, Yeah, in addition to anything just about the

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cost of living or the cost of gas, or the

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time you spend on the road. People who made those

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adjustments to take care of real life issues, it's a

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real inconvenience to them.

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Yeah. I had a great conversation a couple of weeks ago.

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I think I told you about it with my Nam Maranas,

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who wrote a book called The Flexibility Paradigm. She has

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some incredible research in there about flexibility and hybrid and

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all sorts of things. And one of the things that

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she said is that really struck me is that, you know,

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when we don't know, kind of make work more accessible

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for people, what we're actually really doing at the end

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of the day is we're limiting their potential. And that

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really got me, you know, as somebody who's help for

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you know, to be able to unleash people to their

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passion and their purpose and create a destination workplace. So

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just what you're saying is kind of speaking to that,

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and I think it's another sort of surrounded sound point

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on the matter.

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Exactly. There is a researcher out of Stanford who did

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some work showing that we hired more disabled people during

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the pandemic telework and that return to office may in

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fact disadvantage them because they can't come in.

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Yeah, I've also seen some research on that too, and

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that also came up in one's book as well. And

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then the other thing that I that I think is

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really interesting in terms of you know, right now we're

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just sort of presencing the new kind of the new workforce,

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the new human that emerged from this the pandemic. We

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went through other changes in the workplace. But the other

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phenomenon that I'm seeing that I'm finding really really interested in,

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which having lived abroad myself in my twenties, is so

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many people are moving to other countries altogether. I personally

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know for people alone who have moved to Portugal. So

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this this is so interesting. And then I met a

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gentleman who founded an organization here in Dallas called Work Exploring.

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Now what they do is they specialize in helping support

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companies who offer remote work to other people around the

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globe as a part of their draw for work, as

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a perk for the work. You know, I'm stationed in Greece.

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You know, my company supports that kind of thing or

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whatever it is. So I'm interested in your perspective whatever

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you've seen on the mobility that that's emerged after the pandemic.

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There is great talent in some other countries. There's also

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been some research on could we use remote work to

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help underdeveloped areas bring up their economic value by letting

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some of these jobs move into places that we could

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put some infrastructure and bring up really the value of

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their economies by letting them have this higher paying work.

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I think there's a lot of global advantage to allowing

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some of us to move there and help bring some

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of those economies kind of into the twenty first century,

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if you will, and a lot of value to it

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if we would explore it.

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You know. Of course, you know that seems to my

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soul because I'm a conscious capitalist and really I believe

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in the power of business to lift the world. I

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believe in that. So that is a beautiful point for me.

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And then the other side of that occurs to me

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is that by having someone on in your workforce that's

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in these different countries, maybe you learn something more about

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you will and something more about those cultures, and maybe

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that's another way for you to develop a greater customer

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base there, or improve the customer base that you already

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have there. So and of course, as somebody who believes

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in the power of learning from other cultures, that's where

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my company is called Gusto now because it means the

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same thing in the English, Spanish and Portuguese exuberance, excitement, zeal,

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which is what I'm trying to help organizations impart into

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their culture. So that is a very very interesting idea

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to me that I know, I want to explore more.

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If you learn more about that, I want to know.

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It just means we have to have lunch. That's all, Monica. Okay, well,

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let's grab our first break. I'm your host, Doctor Lee's Cortes.

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We've been on the air with Monica Mitchell, who leads

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an organization of one hundred and twenty employees that manages

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at AT and T, that manages a three billion dollar

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software development portfolio. We've been talking about how it is

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that she got into the space of really trying to

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understand the impact return to office and her interest in

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seeing how we can create the workforce of the future.

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Will be right back.

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Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

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and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies

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visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

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leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

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commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

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a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her

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at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

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your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose

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with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or

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to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to

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Elise alisee at elisecortes dot com. Now back to working

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on purpose.

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Thanks for staning with us. Are welcome back to working

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on purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as I

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am dedicated to hopen the create a world where people

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realize the potential at work, are led by inspirational leaders

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that help them find and contribute their greatness, and we

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do business that betters the world. I continue to research

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and write my own books, so my last one came

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out in twenty twenty three. It's called a Great Revitalization.

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How activating meaning and purpose can radically enliven your business.

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And I wanted to help leaders understand that today's workforce

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what is it they want to need? Much like what

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we're having in this conversation, and then I offer twenty

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two best prejudices to equip them to provide that in

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their leadership and their culture. You can find my books

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on Amazon or check them out on my website at

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least core test dot com if you are just now

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joining us. My guest is Monica Mitchell, who, in addition

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to leading her software development team one hundred and twenty

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people at AT and T, also leads the Agile Centers

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of Excellence and Change Leadership. It was passionate about team

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employee development and mentoring and making real transformation happen. Sounds

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good to me. So one of the reasons I totally

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wanted to have you on that program, you might recall,

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is when you just sort of mentioned, matter of factly

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that part of what had happened during the pandemic is

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that our brains had been rewired. Let's talk about that.

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That's pretty fascinating.

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Absolutely, before we went home for the pandemic, we were

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used to the open office concept, noise. I had people

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lined up outside my door to ask questions. I was

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used to the interruptions. I maybe had to bring my

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laptop home for focused work like writing appraisals or whatever

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because I needed alone time. But I was used to

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that interaction and noise and chaos at work. I expected it,

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I even maybe thrived on it. I came home in

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March of twenty twenty and like my employees, I felt

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a little lost alone. It was quiet. I was trapped

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in the four walls of my house, and as I

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mentioned earlier, we sat up the virtual lunches and happy

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hours so that we could all feel some connection. And

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over time I adjusted to the quiet and the piece

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and that I could focus and get a lot of

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work done a lot faster. And then when we started

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return to office, it was only one or two days

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a week, and so I would go in and I

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enjoyed the social but I would leave all of the

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focus work for the days I wasn't going in, and

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so that was okay. But I would notice that if

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I was working at home and some of my employees

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were in the office, I would be like, can't you

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go find a quiet room? All those people walking behind you,

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talking behind you is distracting me. You know, as you mentioned,

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I have the Agile Center of Excellence. They coach and

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teach agility. Their students would complain when they were doing

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a virtual class if people were walking behind them or

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making noise because it was distracting, and so we had

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to tell them on the days you're teaching a home

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it's bothering your students. And the question was, why does

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this bother us? It didn't bother us before, and so

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I started reading research and looking into it. What is

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it that's going on? And there is some research that

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all that quiet and the sudden change of the pandemic

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literally our brains are able to adapt, and they did

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very well. They love the quiet, and going back is

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now giving us that same car crash pain and need

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to adjust, and people are resisting it the same way

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we resisted coming home because it's emotionally disturbing. You know.

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It's one of the many things I love. The reasons

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I keep hosting this podcast after ten years because I

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always learned something significant from each of my guests, and

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what you've helped me with that as well, Monica, because

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I just assumed that I had just become or of

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an introvert during the pandemic. So that's personality, not brain function,

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and I can completely see that I do. I'm very

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spooked by noises. Somebody slams that the cupboard in the

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locker room of my gym, I jump out of my

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out of my chair. So now we're starting to see

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in some of those significant distractions are disrupting focus and

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ampering productivity. And what I find really fascinating is, you know,

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during the pendemic, there was this big focus on well being,

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and now it's like, oh, I don't think we're really

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talking about that right now. If we cared about well being,

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I think there would be a different approach to how

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people are coming back to the office exactly.

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And really, our offices are designed for nineteen ninety nine

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two thousand and the chaos that we were used to.

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We don't have enough noise dampening devices. We don't have

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enough focus rooms or places you can do a private

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chat or deep thought, and so you're bringing in people

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with a changed brain who are more sensitive to it.

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I've had employees tell me that their ADHD got worse

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over the pandemic, which may actually be a side effect

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of COVID, you know. And then they have this brain

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change where they got used to the quiet, and they're saying,

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I can't focus, I'm having trouble getting my work done

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and there's no quiet place to sit. That's going to

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have a huge impact on productivity and your overall well

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being because then they begin to think, is my job

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at risk if I can't get it done?

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Yeah, for sure, you're reminding me. You know, I remember

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when I moved from I had a corner office for

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a job that I was working at in Elite nineteen nineties,

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and then I came in as a consultant to T

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Mobile at that time to help them really develop their

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recruiting department. We were in a big bullpen kind of environment,

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which was I just hated it because I would sneeze

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and somebody whom well on the other end of the

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room would say, bless you, and I felt so invaded.

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My privacy felt so invaded. I did get used to it,

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but it just really you're reminding me of this. And

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what I think is interesting too, is I noticed in

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one of the articles that you shared with me, the

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research from the University of California at Irvine found that

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employees and pubicles received twenty nine percent more interruptions than

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those in private offices, leading to the high rates of exhaustion,

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et cetera. And I think it's just if you are

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losing I know, I read one that said you could

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lose three to five hours of productive time every day

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due to people dropping in or unwanted questions or people

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just board just need to connect kind of thing. That's

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a lot of.

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Time, it is, and then you add to the time

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in traffic, how much time are you losing that you

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previously spent just focusing.

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Yeah. I liked also this idea here, you know, if

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those organizations that have managed to really embrace flexible and

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hybrid sort of options, I like the idea that you

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know that that there's evidence that allows people to do

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their best work in the office and that's when of

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the most effective, and to be able to focus at home.

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So then the idea that allowing them the employee, the

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employees to do their focused work, their individual walk at home,

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like you've been saying, where they have control of their

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environment and minimize their distructions. But then the office becomes

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a hub of collaboration and nuanced conversations, mentoring, on the

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job training, socializing. That's a really nice mix, it.

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Is and I think necessary. Our chief technology officer you know,

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recently said there are going to be days when your

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work is so focused you need to stay home most

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of the time. We want you in the office collaborating, mentoring,

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having purposeful meetings, but we understand there are going to

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be days life happens you need to be at home

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because there's a repairment coming or given you and assignment

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that's really difficult, and I need you to focus on it.

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And you know, I think the individual supervisors have to

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have the authority to make that adjustment so that the

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real work can be done in the right way.

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Yeah. One of the other articles that I came across

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that I thought was really really interesting, and I'm pretty

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sure that you saw it really be ensured it with me,

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but I thought it was interesting. There was somebody named

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Thomas Carmichael, professor and chair of the Neurology Department at

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UCLA David Geffen's School of Medicine. He mentioned in an

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article our brains are like flatbyt biceps and suggests that

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we should make ourselves work from the office more often

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to strengthen those flatby biceps. And then, of course there's

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some counter to that, so I'd be interested in maybe

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you're sort of your counter perspective on putting the owners

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fully on the employee to deal with that adaptation.

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I don't think we should the onus fully on the employee.

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I think we have to recognize that a we have

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less office space than we did and if we want

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a full return to office, we may have to increase

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our footprint so that there's enough space. And b that

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the offices we have were designed for people who were

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emotionally wired differently and there was an impact to the

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pandemic that we can't erase. Right, So we need to

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design workspaces that allow the people who are coming back

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with the limitations and changes that have happened to them

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to function. And if they need more private spaces, more

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places where they can focus, sound dampening surfaces and partitions,

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if that's what they need to be able to both

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collaborate and focus, then the onus is on the company

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to provide that good work environment that allows the employee

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to be productive and successful.

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Mm hmm. I think that's really really interesting. And and

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then we get into you know, this notion of return

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on experience and for the for the time and the

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effort that it that it takes to come into the office.

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You know, seeing more and more discussion around well, how

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do we provide a return on the experience for that?

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And so can you talk a little bit about you know,

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you say you do something to accommodate the employee, but

466
00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:37.640
when we do ask them to come into the office,

467
00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:40.680
you know, what can we do for them to encourage

468
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:41.279
and reward that.

469
00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:46.480
You know, I think one of the reasons that some

470
00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:51.000
of the hybrid arrangements didn't seem successful is there was

471
00:26:51.079 --> 00:26:55.519
no structure yeap what people came in whatever day they

472
00:26:55.559 --> 00:26:57.880
wanted and none of their team members are there, and

473
00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:02.200
so they would they would say, I'm coming in to

474
00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:05.400
sit on a teams or a zoom by myself, just

475
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:07.880
like I did at home. What was the purpose? I

476
00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:13.000
think you have to design both the workspace and the

477
00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:16.279
structure of the day so that people are with the

478
00:27:16.279 --> 00:27:19.680
people they need to collaborate with, and you've structured the

479
00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:22.920
meetings and the exercises in a way that they feel

480
00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:26.839
like they're getting something out of it. That means structured mentoring,

481
00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:31.960
giving people work buddies, things, meaningful experiences.

482
00:27:32.359 --> 00:27:37.319
Yeah. My nam Morolani's talked about that too. So she's

483
00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:40.000
she's really putting forth and she's got a whole you know,

484
00:27:40.119 --> 00:27:43.400
five step process that she helps companies go through to

485
00:27:43.519 --> 00:27:47.640
embrace a flexibility culture. The part of it is it's

486
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:51.480
it's it's structures, it's strategy and structure, she says. You know,

487
00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:53.400
so you've got a strategy for flexibility why are you

488
00:27:53.480 --> 00:27:56.440
doing this? I was supporting your business objectives, et cetera.

489
00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:00.240
And then the actual strategy to carry it out, which

490
00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:03.920
was and hold up that structure is what we talked

491
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:05.839
about a couple of weeks ago. I really it was

492
00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:09.759
incredible to discover her work. I had another question. I

493
00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:14.920
want to ask you on that just a second. Yeah,

494
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:17.839
So when it comes to when it comes to how

495
00:28:17.880 --> 00:28:21.559
people are interacting in this new environment, one of the

496
00:28:21.559 --> 00:28:24.519
things that I'm trying to put forth is why aren't

497
00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:27.279
we embracing more of the possibility here. I know it's

498
00:28:27.319 --> 00:28:29.519
so much easier to think you can go back, let's

499
00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:30.960
just go back to the way things work because we

500
00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:35.039
know that, But there's such an opportunity here to you know,

501
00:28:35.440 --> 00:28:37.720
enlarge ourselves and how we think about these things, how

502
00:28:37.720 --> 00:28:40.680
we approach these things and do more, being more and

503
00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:44.440
therefore have more and when we work to go beyond

504
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:47.119
you know, just what we knew from the past, any

505
00:28:47.200 --> 00:28:50.599
research ideas that you've seen about what it's taking to

506
00:28:50.680 --> 00:28:53.119
kind of pull more leaders up into this new or

507
00:28:53.200 --> 00:28:54.559
higher thinking realm.

508
00:28:55.680 --> 00:28:59.960
Well, I think first we didn't know the backlash went

509
00:29:00.039 --> 00:29:04.079
are going to get because we didn't understand that people's

510
00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:07.720
brains were rewired, and that it was really going to

511
00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:12.680
be an emotional event. Right now that we're seeing that,

512
00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:16.640
I think the researchers are coming forward with the information

513
00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:19.920
that managers need to realize they've got to do things differently.

514
00:29:20.279 --> 00:29:27.319
But this is just just now hitting the research journals

515
00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:31.279
and management journals that people can read to realize we've

516
00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:33.839
got to do it different There's actually a reason you're

517
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:37.119
getting this reaction, and here's how you need to react

518
00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:41.519
to it. We may take another year and a half

519
00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:44.519
to actually react to that, because that's typically how it works.

520
00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:51.160
Yeah, that's you know. The reason I'm an organizational psychologist, Monk,

521
00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:53.759
is because I believe in the wonder power and nobility

522
00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:56.279
of work, and I believe it in a way that

523
00:29:56.400 --> 00:29:58.759
helps us realize our potential if we do it well,

524
00:29:58.839 --> 00:30:01.319
and we can do business that better the world. So

525
00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:04.960
I'm dedicated to being part of, you know, the cadre

526
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:08.599
of people that are working together to usher in a

527
00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:11.480
world of work that works for everybody. I just don't

528
00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:12.920
want to wait for a year and a half, monthing.

529
00:30:12.960 --> 00:30:17.640
I really know, you know, And I read the headlines

530
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:21.759
like Amazon doesn't have enough desks for the people coming back, right,

531
00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:25.640
and you wonder it's a math exercise.

532
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:26.799
Right it is?

533
00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:27.279
Yeah?

534
00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:29.400
How hard is that? I don't know?

535
00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:36.440
Yeah, yeah. So so I'm just very very happy that

536
00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:39.200
I found you and your research. A PERSONA did more

537
00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:41.359
about that. We'll stay in touch, but let's let's grab

538
00:30:41.359 --> 00:30:43.960
our last break here, one more segment that I want

539
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:48.559
to talk about how we can architect today and tomorrow's workplace.

540
00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:51.759
We've been in the air with Monica Mitchell, who leads

541
00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:54.119
an organization of one hundred and twenty employees that manages

542
00:30:55.519 --> 00:30:59.559
a three hundred three billion dollars software development portfolio, among

543
00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:01.559
many of the things. I am ELISEE. Cortez, and we've

544
00:31:01.599 --> 00:31:04.279
been talking just recently about how our brains have been

545
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:06.599
required during the pandemic. Out of the right, we're going

546
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:07.440
to talk about the future.

547
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:08.240
Be right back.

548
00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:27.039
Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

549
00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:30.920
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies

550
00:31:31.000 --> 00:31:34.799
visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

551
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:38.839
leadership and meaning imfused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

552
00:31:38.920 --> 00:31:42.160
commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

553
00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:45.160
Elise to speak to your organization, please visit her at

554
00:31:45.160 --> 00:31:48.400
elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your

555
00:31:48.440 --> 00:31:57.240
employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with

556
00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:00.519
doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to

557
00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:03.319
open a conversation with Elise, send an email to a

558
00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:09.319
lease ALISEE at eliscortes dot com. Now back to working

559
00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:10.039
on purpose.

560
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:17.119
Thanks for Jane with us, and welcome back to working

561
00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:19.440
on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor at Least Cortes. I

562
00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:21.480
mentioned in the last break that my latest book came

563
00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:24.480
out in twenty twenty three, The Great Vitalization. What he

564
00:32:24.559 --> 00:32:27.000
did for you is I created a free three page

565
00:32:27.079 --> 00:32:29.440
organizational assessment. You can learn the extent to which your

566
00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:33.359
company's leadership and culture meets the standards of today's discerning workforce.

567
00:32:33.640 --> 00:32:36.519
You can find it on my website gustodashnow dot com

568
00:32:37.079 --> 00:32:39.559
if you are just joining us. My guest is Monica Mitchell, who,

569
00:32:39.559 --> 00:32:41.680
in addition to leading her software development team of one

570
00:32:41.720 --> 00:32:43.960
entred and twenty at AT and T, also leads the

571
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:47.599
Agile Center of Excellence. Change leadership is passionate about team

572
00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:51.720
employee development and mentoring and making real transformation happen. So

573
00:32:51.799 --> 00:32:54.480
for this last segment here, I wanted to get your perspective,

574
00:32:54.519 --> 00:32:57.519
your thoughts, your research, what you've seen on how we

575
00:32:57.680 --> 00:33:01.839
can architect the workforce, the work place for today's and

576
00:33:01.839 --> 00:33:04.079
tomorrows employees. You had mentioned in one of our exchanges

577
00:33:04.119 --> 00:33:08.279
that we for us to be able to create that

578
00:33:08.279 --> 00:33:11.200
this vision of destination workplaces and such, we actually have

579
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:14.680
to create an architect something very different. So let's talk

580
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:17.599
about that. Let me just let you respond to that,

581
00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:19.880
and then I have a few pepperwine questions.

582
00:33:20.279 --> 00:33:24.559
Sure, when I was working on my bachelor's degree, which

583
00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:30.039
is in industrial engineering, I studied ergonomics, how to design

584
00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:37.119
a workplace that was centered around the body and safety

585
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:44.960
and health. Flash forward thirty years. We not only need

586
00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:52.079
a workplace that thinks about the physical and ergonomics, we

587
00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:57.839
now have research that shows the pandemic altered our brains

588
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:04.279
and how we emotion react and behave, and the workplace

589
00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:07.599
now has to take that into account. If we want

590
00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:12.480
people to be productive and perform at their highest potential,

591
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:17.960
we need activity based spaces where if they need to collaborate,

592
00:34:18.039 --> 00:34:20.679
there's room for them to do that. They need to focus.

593
00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:23.280
There needs to be a place for them to do that.

594
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:29.599
We had one of our leaders in our Israel division

595
00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:33.719
note that the US based spaces are not designed the

596
00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:37.559
same way as their development center and that when their

597
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:41.719
folks visit US, they can't concentrate because we're noisy and

598
00:34:41.760 --> 00:34:46.599
there's no noise reduction, the lighting isn't the same, and

599
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:51.360
that their centers are really designed around software developers and

600
00:34:51.400 --> 00:34:54.159
the space that they need and ours aren't. And they're like,

601
00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:58.440
why would you ever do that? And probably because no

602
00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:01.639
one here thought about it when we were used to

603
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:06.239
the chaos and noise. Well, things have changed, so we

604
00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:08.960
need to go and look at the physical design of

605
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:12.719
the spaces in light of the changes that have happened

606
00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:15.639
in the employee's brains and emotions.

607
00:35:17.559 --> 00:35:19.239
One of the things I've come to in my own

608
00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:22.400
research and my experience of consulting with companies as well

609
00:35:22.440 --> 00:35:25.800
as what I like to say, that we've evolved quite

610
00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:28.320
a bit through the pandemic. You know, it was a

611
00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:31.840
you know, shared global heart attack. We all responded to it,

612
00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:34.880
and it called a lot in US. And I think

613
00:35:35.320 --> 00:35:36.840
we have grown in a lot of ways. And I

614
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:41.079
firmly believe that we have also evolved in our consciousness,

615
00:35:41.079 --> 00:35:47.199
our requirements for civility and emotional intelligence in our relationships

616
00:35:47.239 --> 00:35:50.360
and certainly at work, and it requires, you know, more

617
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:52.519
astute leadership all the way around. And so I liked

618
00:35:52.519 --> 00:35:54.519
how you had actually said in one of our exchanges

619
00:35:54.559 --> 00:35:58.199
that in the nineties we did architect workplaces for the physical,

620
00:35:58.800 --> 00:36:03.320
accommodation for health, etc. And now accommodating creating a work

621
00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:08.239
environment that really accommodates those mental emotional needs is a

622
00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:10.639
whole different animal.

623
00:36:11.800 --> 00:36:22.360
Definitely, Particularly we know that COVID long COVID has created

624
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:27.800
an ADHD like reaction in people who didn't have it before,

625
00:36:28.519 --> 00:36:33.079
people who do have ADHD have reported that it's worse,

626
00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:39.199
and then even folks without that are telling you, I'm

627
00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:43.840
just more sensitive to noise. So when you add all

628
00:36:43.880 --> 00:36:50.960
that up, we've got way more people bothered by noise

629
00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:55.480
and distraction than we did five years ago. But we

630
00:36:55.599 --> 00:37:00.880
don't have more quiet spaces, more places to focus, more

631
00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:05.480
square footage designated to help them do that. And we

632
00:37:05.639 --> 00:37:08.039
have to address that if we want to continue to

633
00:37:08.119 --> 00:37:11.960
be productive and to have employees who want to be there.

634
00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:18.519
Now, if we play out the ramifications feeling those experiences

635
00:37:18.559 --> 00:37:21.360
that you just described well, I have to imagine, I

636
00:37:21.400 --> 00:37:23.320
don't know what you've seen in the research, that we

637
00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:26.840
have to see increased conflicts in the workplace, We have

638
00:37:26.880 --> 00:37:29.440
to see probably increased health costs as we deal with

639
00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:34.320
these things that are emerging. Any research on these fronts.

640
00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:38.280
I don't know that I've seen research on it, but hannecdotally,

641
00:37:38.440 --> 00:37:45.679
I've seen people fighting over chairs and desks and the

642
00:37:45.760 --> 00:37:52.000
few quiet rooms that are available, people turning in complaints.

643
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:56.079
I hold skip levels with my team and some of

644
00:37:56.119 --> 00:37:58.880
the most frequent comments are, I can't find a place

645
00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:04.079
to take a private call. Well, why why does the

646
00:38:04.119 --> 00:38:08.440
guy next to me have a lunch that smells? You know,

647
00:38:08.960 --> 00:38:13.840
Things that that they didn't complain about before. Yeah, they

648
00:38:13.880 --> 00:38:20.000
bring up every single meeting now, and so the ramifications

649
00:38:20.039 --> 00:38:23.440
are that they're going to keep complaining. Some of them

650
00:38:23.480 --> 00:38:29.559
may quit just an unwillingness to deal right now.

651
00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:33.760
Mm hmmm. You know I want to This is where

652
00:38:33.800 --> 00:38:37.320
I like to always, you know, give a shout out

653
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:39.679
and honor all of the managers and leaders out there.

654
00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:42.400
You know, it's this is hard work these days, and

655
00:38:42.519 --> 00:38:44.880
it's getting harder and harder to be an effective manager

656
00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:49.519
and effective leader, and so you know it takes real skill,

657
00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:52.199
It takes your own self care to handle this stuff,

658
00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:55.840
and you know, patients, emotional intelligence, all this stuff. So

659
00:38:55.840 --> 00:38:59.800
I just wanted to situate that that must be a

660
00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:01.280
little bit trying at times.

661
00:39:02.199 --> 00:39:04.679
You know it is, but we do have some great leaders.

662
00:39:05.239 --> 00:39:08.320
We have people who are trying to make it better,

663
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:13.199
and I think they will prevail. I certainly plan to

664
00:39:13.239 --> 00:39:15.199
make it better for my people any way I can,

665
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:19.599
and I know my boss does. And that's what's important

666
00:39:19.639 --> 00:39:22.599
is that we are trying, We are reading the research

667
00:39:23.719 --> 00:39:28.519
and trying in any way that we can to overcome

668
00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:31.320
these things that we didn't realize had happened.

669
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:35.760
That's such an important conversation. You know. The other thing

670
00:39:35.800 --> 00:39:37.480
I want a presence, which we've talked about many times

671
00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:40.119
in this podcast, is you know, those individuals, those under

672
00:39:40.119 --> 00:39:42.639
and twenty individuals that that are on your team, they

673
00:39:42.679 --> 00:39:45.440
all go home to people and whatever their experiences, of

674
00:39:45.440 --> 00:39:48.840
course has been impacted by what they experienced during the day.

675
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:51.800
And so when you think about just the sheer ripple

676
00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:55.119
effect that we have as leaders in people's lives and

677
00:39:55.280 --> 00:39:58.159
those families and then into their communities, I mean, it's

678
00:39:58.239 --> 00:40:01.480
it's a really big deal. And get this right and

679
00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:02.519
well is important.

680
00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:07.199
It really is either driving home. We don't want them

681
00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:09.800
to have it wrect because they're frustrated, right, and then

682
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:14.360
it does multiply to their families, which then multiplies to

683
00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:17.119
wherever they go the next way. It's huge.

684
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:21.440
Yeah, yeah, So I really appreciate how thoughtful you're being

685
00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:23.880
about this and how you're contributing to advance the conversation

686
00:40:23.960 --> 00:40:26.360
on this. I'm here and of course, and you know,

687
00:40:26.440 --> 00:40:29.639
back at your own company, I wanted to spend a

688
00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:31.480
little bit of time here, Monica. You shared an article

689
00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:33.679
with me that I thought was really powerful, and it

690
00:40:33.719 --> 00:40:36.559
has four key factors to shaping team workplaces. But I

691
00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:38.519
think it might be useful as we talk about how

692
00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:42.599
can we actually create that, if not today, then future

693
00:40:42.719 --> 00:40:45.400
workplace that really works more for people. I thought it

694
00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:48.440
was really smart that it takes into consideration, you know

695
00:40:48.559 --> 00:40:52.519
Carl Jume's four areas, you know that speak to the

696
00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:56.039
fuller human being, if you would so, I'm not sure

697
00:40:56.039 --> 00:40:57.280
how you want to go about that, but I would

698
00:40:57.280 --> 00:40:59.320
love for us to hit each of those four core

699
00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:02.559
factors and what they're trying to address.

700
00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:05.159
The way I looked at it and I thought it

701
00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:15.440
was really well done to look at activities, emotions, how

702
00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:19.840
do people collaborate, what is the purpose of them being together,

703
00:41:20.360 --> 00:41:23.599
and how do you pull all that together? And it

704
00:41:23.679 --> 00:41:27.280
was very intentional the way that they set that up.

705
00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:29.880
Did you want to name each of them?

706
00:41:30.039 --> 00:41:31.760
Yeah, so let's just go through each one of them.

707
00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:34.440
I've got some notes that I took from that. And

708
00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:38.559
so the first area is knowing the individual behavioral self.

709
00:41:38.599 --> 00:41:44.079
That's the thinking element of valuing's dynamic here. So thinking

710
00:41:44.079 --> 00:41:47.920
about and considering the mental and intellectual activity involved for

711
00:41:48.280 --> 00:41:50.719
subjective consciousness. So if you could speak a little bit

712
00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:55.679
about you, how could a workplace or work policies support

713
00:41:55.760 --> 00:41:56.480
that factor.

714
00:41:57.079 --> 00:42:00.760
So if you think about the comment that our manager

715
00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:05.039
in Israel made about their workplaces being designed for software engineers,

716
00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:13.039
that might be completely different than someone working in media

717
00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:19.360
productions needs, right, because they need the quiet space to focus.

718
00:42:19.519 --> 00:42:24.159
Media productions needs lights and sounds and the ability to

719
00:42:24.280 --> 00:42:28.360
collaborate and pull in video feeds and things like that.

720
00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:32.039
And that's completely different than what the guy in finance needs.

721
00:42:32.039 --> 00:42:33.920
He needs the great big computer screen so he can

722
00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:39.000
make his Excel spreadsheet bigger. I think you have to

723
00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:43.360
look at what are they going to do. What are

724
00:42:43.400 --> 00:42:48.119
the needs related probably to the personality of the person

725
00:42:48.159 --> 00:42:53.519
who would want that job, as well as what it

726
00:42:53.559 --> 00:42:58.800
takes to do that job and the physical structure of

727
00:42:58.840 --> 00:43:00.559
the desk that would help them do it.

728
00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:05.199
Okay, very very interesting. When we get to a certain point,

729
00:43:05.239 --> 00:43:06.920
I realized, I want to share a story. But let's

730
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:09.119
get to this next one. The number the second one

731
00:43:09.320 --> 00:43:11.320
is becoming aware of the cognitive needs of the team.

732
00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:14.159
We talked a little bit about that, but that, but

733
00:43:14.239 --> 00:43:16.519
it also speaks to there's a space and that where

734
00:43:16.639 --> 00:43:21.320
it's really speaking to the feeling element, the conscious subjective

735
00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:25.519
experience of emotion. And of course that's my jam big time.

736
00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:27.719
I mean, I'm for the whole total person, but so

737
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:30.519
much of what I'm doing today it's so interesting, Monica.

738
00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:33.000
When I started working in this space, the skills that

739
00:43:33.039 --> 00:43:35.920
I was helping develop were considered soft skills, and now

740
00:43:35.960 --> 00:43:39.400
they're considered essential skills. And we're seeing more and more

741
00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:41.800
of the need for the human element in the workplace

742
00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:46.960
to be honored. So how how how might we address

743
00:43:47.159 --> 00:43:51.559
and the workplace and the policies to be able to

744
00:43:51.639 --> 00:43:56.599
suit and better support the emotional realm.

745
00:43:56.679 --> 00:44:01.960
You know, we find like with with gen Z. They

746
00:44:02.119 --> 00:44:05.360
wanted to come to the office, but to be mentored,

747
00:44:05.960 --> 00:44:11.159
not be in the office, right, And we found folks

748
00:44:11.639 --> 00:44:15.559
my age when it came to return to office, didn't

749
00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:18.000
want to come back just to sit there. I wanted

750
00:44:18.039 --> 00:44:22.639
to have a purpose to be there, which probably was

751
00:44:22.760 --> 00:44:26.119
mentoring the gen Z person. Because if it was just

752
00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:29.519
to come back and sit on a zoom, that didn't

753
00:44:29.519 --> 00:44:31.400
seem to make sense to me. And so I think

754
00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:35.400
when we think about that emotional aspect, people need a

755
00:44:35.480 --> 00:44:39.400
reason for why they're doing it, and we need to

756
00:44:39.440 --> 00:44:43.639
structure the day to meet that emotional need for connection

757
00:44:44.679 --> 00:44:48.320
and to give them structure that they see what role

758
00:44:48.400 --> 00:44:53.199
they play and why what they're doing ties into the

759
00:44:53.239 --> 00:44:57.559
greater goal of the company and the success so that

760
00:44:57.639 --> 00:44:59.559
they feel valued needed.

761
00:45:01.400 --> 00:45:04.000
Yeah, this is totally my damn right here. So the

762
00:45:04.079 --> 00:45:05.360
story I wanted to tell you really quick, and I

763
00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:06.880
want to be sure and cover the other two before

764
00:45:06.880 --> 00:45:09.719
we sign off. You'll be shocked, you know, to know that.

765
00:45:10.199 --> 00:45:13.400
On the way to my storytelling class, I stopped into

766
00:45:13.480 --> 00:45:16.159
the to the bar and had had something to drink

767
00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:18.159
and eat. The two jo'nal were sitting next to me,

768
00:45:18.199 --> 00:45:20.079
and I overheard them talking and they were talking about

769
00:45:20.480 --> 00:45:22.000
having to come back to the office, and one of

770
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:23.920
them said, well, we all have to come back to

771
00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:26.119
the office because the CEO said I need people around

772
00:45:26.119 --> 00:45:27.679
me in order to be effective. So where we're going

773
00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:31.679
to all wady back? And of course I piped up like, hey, Jason,

774
00:45:31.719 --> 00:45:33.239
can I talk to you? You don't have a podcast

775
00:45:33.320 --> 00:45:34.800
and we're going to be talking about this sort of thing.

776
00:45:34.840 --> 00:45:36.719
And they were like so intrigued to know that this

777
00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:39.920
was being discussed like this, and one the other guy said,

778
00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:42.719
you know, we have a meeting and we were like

779
00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:45.599
four miles from downtown, and he said, it's all the

780
00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:47.280
way downtown. Why would it come all the way to

781
00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:49.559
downtown fine parking to come to a half an hour

782
00:45:49.559 --> 00:45:52.480
meeting that I can join on zoo. So it's been

783
00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:55.360
so interesting. I think it's important that people, listeners and

784
00:45:55.400 --> 00:45:58.639
viewers are aware of whatever style you prefer that you

785
00:45:58.800 --> 00:46:01.639
opt in to, that you're not can policy choices and

786
00:46:01.639 --> 00:46:05.519
decisions on you have all employees for your preferences, right,

787
00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:06.840
this is so important.

788
00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:13.320
Or if you are, give them a reason why they

789
00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:13.880
should do it.

790
00:46:14.519 --> 00:46:20.599
Yeah, yeah, So okay. In a third area here, the

791
00:46:20.639 --> 00:46:23.480
team's trust belief and trust is the foundation of its

792
00:46:23.480 --> 00:46:26.000
ability to contribute to the betterment of its purpose. You

793
00:46:26.079 --> 00:46:28.599
kind of address that, but this gets to the intuitive

794
00:46:28.599 --> 00:46:31.480
aspects that Carl you and talked about. So if you

795
00:46:31.519 --> 00:46:33.400
can speak a little bit to that factor.

796
00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:38.840
I think our teams need to trust that we have

797
00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:42.599
their best interests at heart, we have their backs, that

798
00:46:42.639 --> 00:46:47.159
we're not asking for things we don't need, and that

799
00:46:47.280 --> 00:46:53.440
we will take their needs into account. And so when

800
00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:58.840
you read about Amazon not having enough desks, did that

801
00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:02.519
take their needs into account in any way?

802
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:06.920
Yeah. I don't know if you've heard about this, but

803
00:47:07.960 --> 00:47:11.199
Jamie Diamond, the CEO of Chase, actually said I don't

804
00:47:11.239 --> 00:47:14.280
care that many of the employees have signed a letter

805
00:47:14.320 --> 00:47:16.159
that says we don't want to come back full time

806
00:47:16.159 --> 00:47:19.440
to goop. He says, I don't care about that. That's

807
00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:22.400
a really loud statement, man. That says a lot right there.

808
00:47:23.119 --> 00:47:25.599
Yeah, he apparently cursed and they called him out for that.

809
00:47:26.320 --> 00:47:28.559
He did you see that. He's since come back and

810
00:47:28.599 --> 00:47:31.719
apologized for cursing and walked his statement back.

811
00:47:31.559 --> 00:47:32.119
A little bit.

812
00:47:34.719 --> 00:47:39.159
He admitted some part of his workforce is allowed to

813
00:47:39.199 --> 00:47:43.039
be remote because their job doesn't face the customer and

814
00:47:43.119 --> 00:47:46.800
so he said he's not against all work from home,

815
00:47:47.320 --> 00:47:49.760
that it should be role based. So he is walking

816
00:47:49.800 --> 00:47:50.639
it back a little bit.

817
00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:53.199
Okay, that's good to know. That's good to I'm really

818
00:47:53.239 --> 00:47:55.440
glad you brought that up. Let's get the last one

819
00:47:55.480 --> 00:47:57.239
just to fill it out. You've already talked about it before.

820
00:47:57.239 --> 00:48:00.280
But the last factor that was discussed here is the

821
00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:03.679
sensory environment. Of course, that's the physical the sensory physical

822
00:48:03.880 --> 00:48:06.960
feeling and perception, which you've alreay addressed with the Israeli

823
00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:08.599
team and such. But if you wanted to say anything

824
00:48:08.599 --> 00:48:10.679
more about that, well, I.

825
00:48:10.599 --> 00:48:14.760
Think it is partly designing for the type of job

826
00:48:14.800 --> 00:48:19.360
they're doing. It's also a recognition, particularly for you know,

827
00:48:19.400 --> 00:48:22.719
people like ADHD and just the brain change we all

828
00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:27.519
went through that if we're more sensitive to noise or

829
00:48:27.639 --> 00:48:31.480
lighting or things than we were five years ago, we

830
00:48:31.519 --> 00:48:34.719
need to make some adjustments in the physical space to

831
00:48:34.840 --> 00:48:38.039
help employees adjust to that or they will continue to fight.

832
00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:45.519
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, and say thirty seconds, we've

833
00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:46.960
already come read of the show. What would you like

834
00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:49.480
to leave our listeners with that?

835
00:48:49.559 --> 00:48:53.920
We can make this transition, but it requires compassion and

836
00:48:54.119 --> 00:48:59.199
collaboration and working together instead of against each.

837
00:48:59.000 --> 00:49:02.280
Other as a beautiful way of finish Monica, I can

838
00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:05.119
get right behind that. I really appreciate meeting you and

839
00:49:05.159 --> 00:49:07.320
you coming on to working on purpose. Thanks for joining

840
00:49:07.400 --> 00:49:10.880
us today, Thanks for having me very welcome. Listeners and

841
00:49:10.960 --> 00:49:13.360
viewers are going to want to connect with Monica and

842
00:49:13.400 --> 00:49:16.199
the best way to do that is on LinkedIn. Her

843
00:49:16.280 --> 00:49:20.000
profile name is Monica B. Like the letter B Mitchell.

844
00:49:20.119 --> 00:49:23.719
Monica B Mitchell with two l's. At the end last week,

845
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:25.199
if you missed the Lin Show, you can always catch

846
00:49:25.199 --> 00:49:28.000
a via recorded podcast. We were on air with Russell Wallerker,

847
00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:31.559
an international speaker and the host producer of the Relationships

848
00:49:31.559 --> 00:49:34.679
at Work podcast, The Guy into building workplace connections and

849
00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:38.719
avoiding leadership blind spots. We talked about why definitions of

850
00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:41.519
key terms like leadership and management are so important for

851
00:49:41.559 --> 00:49:44.199
each company to do for themselves, and he gave us

852
00:49:44.239 --> 00:49:47.679
seven roadblocks leaders unwittingly put in front of themselves that

853
00:49:47.719 --> 00:49:51.599
get in the way of their own effectiveness. Next week

854
00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:53.719
will be on there with Ross Blankenshik talking about his

855
00:49:53.800 --> 00:49:57.079
book Everyday Leadership, which builds nicely on Russell's work to

856
00:49:57.159 --> 00:50:01.119
develop your own leadership mindset, distinguishing what makes leaders effective,

857
00:50:01.159 --> 00:50:04.960
on how to think systematically about organizations and teams. See

858
00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:07.000
it and remember work is one of the best adventures

859
00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:09.239
and means of realizing our potential and making the impact

860
00:50:09.280 --> 00:50:11.639
we create and can give us the opportunity to do

861
00:50:11.679 --> 00:50:14.000
business in a way that betters the world. So let's

862
00:50:14.039 --> 00:50:14.760
work on Purpose.

863
00:50:16.639 --> 00:50:20.239
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to

864
00:50:20.280 --> 00:50:23.960
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,

865
00:50:24.079 --> 00:50:27.280
each week on W four C. Why Together, We'll create

866
00:50:27.320 --> 00:50:31.440
a world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires and passion

867
00:50:31.480 --> 00:50:34.559
performance and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the

868
00:50:34.599 --> 00:50:37.920
meaning and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work

869
00:50:38.039 --> 00:50:38.719
on Purpose.