The Great Resignation Forces a Developmental Boot Upstairs

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What's working on Purpose anyway? Each
week we ponder the answer to this question.

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People ache for meaning and purpose at
work to contribute their talents passionately and

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know their lives really matter. They
crave being part of an organization that inspires

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them and helps them grow into realizing
their highest potential business can be such a

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force for good in the world,
elevating humanity. In our program, we

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provide guidance and inspiration to help usher
in this world we all want Working on

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Purpose now. Here is your host, doctor Elise Cortez. Welcome back to

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Working on Purpose program. Thanks for
tuning again this week. I'm your host,

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Doctor Elie's Cortez, joining you live
from Dallas, which is home based

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for me. If you don't know
me yet, I'm a management consultant specializing

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in meeting and purpose, organizational local
therapist, inspirational speaker, social scientist,

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and author. My team and I
help companies discover and articulate their purpose to

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throw it through culture operations. We
work with forward thinking or forward reaching organizations

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to develop inspirational leaders who create cultures
where people actually want to come to work

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and do their best. And we
provide programs like to Grab Your Gusto that

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enable individual team members to discover unleash
our passion and purpose at work to catalyze

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fulfilment, engagement, and productivity.
You learn more about us and now we

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can work together at Elis Cortez dot
Com. With us today is doctor Rick

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Garlic, who currently serves as Chief
Research Officer for the Incentive Research Foundation,

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where he oversees key employee motivation research
initiatives that advanced the science of the industry.

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He is focused on helping companies to
enhance the brand, employee and customer

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experience and linking these strategies to improved
business results. We're talking about the state

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of today's workforce, the state of
business today, and developing leaders fit for

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the times. He joined today from
Smithfield, Pennsylvania. Doctor Garlic, Welcome

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to it Working on Purpose. I
know he's dropped. We'll get him back

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here. So while so here he's
coming in here. Hello, doctor Garlic,

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Welcome to Working on Purpose. You
made it back. Yes, I'm

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sorry. Did you start without me? Yes? We did. That's okay.

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I introduced you and now we're just
getting riding into it. So welcome

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to Working on Purpose and let's get
started. We've gotten much to cover.

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Okay, all right, So first
I want to just start with how you

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distinguish yourself in the business world.
And so you call you or I know

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that your focus is on creating and
implementing state of the art business strategies for

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customer branding, employee experience initiatives.
And I know that you spent many years

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at the Gallop Institute and Gail Organization
and many others. But I want to

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know why you chose this career and
then say a little bit about kind of

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where you came from. Sure,
so I'd love to tell a little bit

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about my background. And I know
that in our first conversation we had a

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chance to talk about the importance of
purpose in one's work. So I actually

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began my professional career as a college
professor, university professor. I took out

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of Michigan State and DePaul University,
and I thought I had the most important

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job in the world, as you
getting young minds. And in addition to

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that, I was also directing our
university internship program. So I was giving

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a lot of people their first experience, and like many I became a bit

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of a victim of the whole ten
year process and decided to look beyond my

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current career into something that might take
advantage of the fact that I had a

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very strong background in research methods,
and so I interviewed with a number of

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companies, but I had the opportunity
to talk to Gallop and I got hired

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at the Gallop organization. Yeah,
it was an incredible break, and if

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I had the time, i'd even
tell you the remarkable story of how I

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got that job. But anyway,
when I started working for Gallup, I

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found myself struggling a bit, because
you know, we did a lot of

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work and customer experience and brand experience. But one of the things that I

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felt like was I just simply wasn't
doing my fulfilling my purpose and as big

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of a way as when I was
a university professor. And I remember talking

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to the chief marketing officer of Gallup
at the time, Larry Emond, and

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him telling me, well, you
have to think about the fact that what

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you're doing is you're helping your clients
provide better products and services and have people

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have better customer experiences and all those
sorts of things. And I felt like

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that was still maybe just one step
too short of where I wanted to be.

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So when I had the opportunity to
get in the ground floor of some

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of Galup's groundbreaking work in employee engagement
and employee experience, to me, it

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really resonated because I remember Donald Clifton, who was the chair of Gallup at

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the time, connecting everything in the
world, every problem in the world,

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to one thing, job dissatisfaction.
You know. Basically, he did studies

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correlating sickness, domestic violence, substance
abuse, all these things to the fact

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that people were unhappy in the place
where they spent most of their waking hours.

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And I thought, Wow, this
is really it. I thought of

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my own father, who had spent
thirty years working in a factory, and

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just thinking if people studied and focused
on how to make people's lives better like

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my dad's, how much better the
world would be. And so I found

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a tremendous sense of purpose in the
work that I did, and I started

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working for other companies that had had
different focuses. I worked for Merits,

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which is a performance improvement and motivation
company, and we're GALLOPERI focused on what

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I would call the nature side of
employee experience. Merits focused on the nurture

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side, and then I went to
work for JD Power, and I started

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looking at something I call service culture, which is the environment that people work

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in that either helps them provide a
good experience for their customers or a poor

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experience. And I remember Demi had
a quote where he said that if you

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put a good person in a bad
system, the system wins every time.

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So as I have approached the work
that I've done, I've really I've begun

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to understand that so much of what
we do in my world of consulting and

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market research is siloed, where you
have people in marketing really focused on the

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brand experience, you have people in
HR focused on the employee experience, and

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people in quality assurance focused on the
customer experience. And so I think I'm

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a bit unique, and I hope
more people are thinking like this as we

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sort of go down this evolutionary path
of really understanding how all those pieces have

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to work together. You know,
we'll talk today about a recent study I

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did on pride, and you know, we always hear that saying happy employees

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lead to happy customers. I like
to believe that proud employees lead to proud

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customers. So we'll have a chance
to chat a little bit about that.

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Well, what a fantastic black band. First and foremost, that's just and

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I really appreciate how you narrated the
twists and turns and that you still were

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trying to scratch that itch like I
just I want to be of service and

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I want to I want to I
want to win my purpose. And I

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really appreciate that It's been a similar
sort of journey for me too, is

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I kept reaching for more depth in
that journey. So thank you for keeping

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it real as you always do.
Well, I love that, Alice,

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and I can tell you and I
are kindred spirits. You know, we

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had been chatting before about how I
studied that was a sociology major in college,

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and I took classes on the sociology
of work and realized that what we're

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seeing today and what we're experiencing today
in the work world is no different than

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what people experienced at the very very
beginning of the twentieth century. We have

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a few unique twists on it,
but you know, people who owned the

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factories at the time and the people
who went to work for those factories,

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there was a big wealth disparity between
those people, and you know, the

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whole move toward what we see in
society today towards socialism was just as present

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back then. And I believe that
the labor unions played an important role in

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keeping us on a capitalist Some people
might think that's good, some people maybe

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not, but that kept us firmly
planted in the capitalist system. And you

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know that and social safety net programs. Well, now we see so many

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people, so many young people like
my son who are about to graduate from

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college and they've got fairly significant student
loans and sometimes hired to find a job,

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and so it really becomes a very
similar circumstance where people are really striving

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for meaning in their work and purpose
and something beyond a paycheck, because that's

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not always there for them. I
want to talk about that next rip.

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This is so great, so I
want to talk first about the state of

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the workforce, the employee experience really
quick, and I want to talk more

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about the great resignation as well.
But then we can layer on the study

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that you've been doing. So I
found there was a Fidelity study the reported

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the thirty nine percent of people in
the workforce planning to get a new job

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in twenty twenty two. So you
know, just under a half or so,

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So i'd love your perspective on why
so many people are only their jobs

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even without having one secured. Next, what's your perspective on what's driving all

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that. Yeah, there's a lot
of moving parts in there, and let

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me try to briefly talk about some
of those. First of all, I

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think it's interesting that so many dollars, millions and millions of dollars have been

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spent on doing employee engagement employee experience
initiatives. And my excellent companies, you

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know, you mentioned Gallup, my
former company, and there's a lot of

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others out there who are doing great
work within companies in this area. And

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yet what do we hear. We
hear the biggest challenge right now is keeping

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people employed in their present companies,
attracting and retaining talent. So if we're

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doing so well, then why do
we have this issue? Part of it,

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I think has nothing to do with
the quality of work. As I've

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been studying this and reading this,
I've known I've found out a lot of

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people who are dropping out of the
workforce, our baby boomers, people who

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might have been a few years from
retirement. Anyway, stock market has done

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very well, and so people's four
one K accounts are looking good, and

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there were people who felt like,
well, I might have worked another several

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years, but I did well in
the stock market, so I can resign

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now. Now, with everything going
on in the world, you wonder how

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that stock market is going to continue. With inflation and almost double digit with

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gas prices the highest they've been in
history, you wonder if people aren't going

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to be a little bit more anxious
to go back to work. But I

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think also it's a matter of that
there's so much autonomy that you can experience

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in the workforce now. I recently, after decades of working for various companies,

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started my own consultancy and market research
firm and found that there are all

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these mechanisms. If you've got a
computer connection and you've got a cell phone,

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you can run your company from almost
anywhere. And there's so many other

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independent contractors out there that you can
partner with. You can actually give your

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bringing greater talent, do a better
job, and save your customers money.

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So I think that that's another thing
that we're seeing. And then there's also

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this whole thing that people were trying
to find themselves. I think a lot

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of people who are graduating from college, many times they decided to take a

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year and just travel the world or
take what they call that gap year.

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So there's a lot of things.
And then there's also people that I think

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are just simply afraid to go back
and be around other people. And this

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whole notion of forcing people back in
the office, I think is probably blown

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up on some companies where they found
that probably wasn't really necessary to force people

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back into an office. And now
when you consider the lack of productivity when

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people are commuting, when people have
to pay for that gas or whatever the

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transportation costs are, you know,
they take a big cut by pay cut

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by going into the office. So
those are the things that I believe are

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contributing to the Great resignation. Really
helps, Thank you so much for that.

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Well, on the other side of
it, let's talk about what the

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employers are experiencing, right, and
their experience of the Great resignation is something

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else. And I have several clients
that are holding their hand as we go

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through this together to try to help
stem that tide of talent marching out the

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door. So you know, I've
certainly heard stats like four and a half

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million Americans quit their jobs in November, and that's up three percent from the

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previous month. But what does that
look like. Share with us your perspective

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on the pain that organizations feel in
this great resignation time. Well, ironic

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you would ask me that I was
just on the phone the other day with

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a hotel executive if who told me
they're hotel managers of what she's aware,

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who literally go to the bus stop
every morning to try to recruit people to

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come to work at the hotel.
Wow, seriously, and this is real

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And you know that's how bad it
is for so many people. I mean

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people think, boy, our experiences
don't seem to be as good anymore.

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Well, when you think about you
call a call center, and I call

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the call center the other day and
got the recorded message that I would be

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basically on hold for two hours if
I wanted to speak to a live person.

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Well, I don't think that's so
much just people trying to save money.

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There's nobody to staff the call centers, right, So you know,

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sometimes we complain about the bad experiences
that we have, but it's really not

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due to the fault of the companies
that we do business with. It's really

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the fact that they just simply don't
have the people in the staff to be

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able to provide the same kind of
experience that they had previously. And we're

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used to, Like I said,
I do a lot of work in the

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hospitality hospitality world. We're used to
that certain experience in a hotel and when

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we've got to wait or be on
hold or all these sorts of things that

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we're not used to, it seems
like things have slipped pretty significantly. So

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that's the pain that people are dealing
with on all ends, not just the

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employer end, but on the customer
side as well. Yeah, so it's

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interesting I'm doing. I've got a
client here that it's in the sustainability space,

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and I'm helping them higher because they're
in that process, they can hire

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fast enough to be able to meet
the demand of the clients who want to

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work with them. So I'm out
there looking for a talent and I need

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to search on LinkedIn rick for a
sustainability people, and I looked and I

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found that I think it was something
like eighty percent of the people that I

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found that I just happened being in
my search had been in their current role

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for less than six months. It
just shows the mobility of the workplace right

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now right, So it's the fluidity
of it all. So I do know

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that there's a lot of demand and
people. You know, the salaries increase.

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Companies have a hard time meeting the
salary increase requirements seen in the workforce.

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It is a workforce led or employee
led workforce. Now, as far

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as I could tell, it's fascinating. It's really really interesting times. And

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you know why, part of the
reason I wanted to have you on the

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show for a last segment to be
able to talk about what do we need

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to develop in terms of our leadership
to deal with these times. We'll get

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to that later, but as far
as I could tell, this is pretty

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unprecedent. It is unprecedented now.
In fairness, keep in mind the fact

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that so many people lost their jobs
in the pandemic. I knew so many

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people customers of mind, people I
had worked with for literally decades who were

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given a pink slip. So a
lot of that is now that business is

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kind of getting back a bit to
normal, people need to hire people and

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fill those positions. So that's why
you're seeing a lot of that I know

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a lot of people personally who are
let go who now are back in the

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workforce, So that's part of it
as well. But I think the other

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pieces and we've heard this for years
that I remember, I think it was

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in the nineties. I heard when
I was a gallop that in people who

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are graduating from college at that time
that they were expected to have like some

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crazy number like fourteen different jobs in
their careers. And you know, you

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think about people like my dad who
work for Chrysler for thirty years and retired

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with a pension. Now you're pretty
much a free agent, and people hire

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people based on need and understanding that
when you come into an employer, they

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basically say, look, we'll keep
you here as long as you create the

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kind of value that we can use, and when you cease to create that

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value, you won't be here.
But here's what we can do for you.

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We can help you build your own
personal brand. We can give you

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experiences to put on your resume to
make you more marketable for that career path

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that you want to choose. And
you know, when we start talking more

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in depth about this, we can
pursue this topic further. But it's a

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whole notion of people understand that I'm
I don't have a lifetime contract with an

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employer. What I do have is
the opportunity to build my personal brand,

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build up that LinkedIn profile, build
up that resume, and make myself really

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look very desirable for whatever that next
situation is. Is I evolve in my

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own career path. Wonderful, great
way to sit usen to our first break,

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Rick, I'm your host, doctor
Elias Kortez. We are on there

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with doctor Rick Garlick. He's the
principle of a research based consultants. He

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focused on a tancing the brand,
employee and customer experience in linking these strategies

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to improved business results. We've been
talking a bit about the current state of

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the workforce. After the work we'll
get into a little bit more of what's

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going on in business today and talk
about that pride research. If he did

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for work. Proud stay with us. We'll be right back. Doctor release

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Cortez is a management consultant specializing in
meaning and purpose and inspirational speaker and author.

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She helps companies visioneer for greater purpose
among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership

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and meaning infused cultures. That elevate
fulfillment, performance and commitment within the workforce.

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To learn more or to invite a
Lease to speak to your organization,

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please visit her at a lease Cortez
dot com. Let's talk about how to

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get your employees working on purpose.
This is Working on Purpose with doctor Release

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Cortez. To reach our program today
or open a conversation with Elise, send

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an email to Elise ali se at
Elise Cortez dot com. Now back to

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working on Purpose. Thanks for saying
what's this and welcome back to the program.

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I'd like to invite to check out
my book Purpose Ignited, How Inspiring

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Leaders Ignite Passion and la Cause,
which is now on Amazon. I wrote

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the book to awakened readers to their
passion and purpose and help transform inspirational leaders

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who enliven the workplace and elevate the
contribution of business to all stakeholders. I

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hope you'll check it out. I
use the content as a basis for my

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Findle Inspired Leadership program and I grab
your Gusto programs if you're just joining the

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program today. My guest is doctor
Rick Garlic, who currently serves as Chief

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Research Officer for the Incentive Research Foundation. Where oversees key employee motivation, research

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initiatives that advance the science of the
industry. On your host structurally, Scortez,

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So let's talk a little bit more
about what's going on in the world

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of business today if we can first
Rick, so we can we can help

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our listeners and viewers understand the state
of affairs. We talked before the Brick

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about some of the things related to
the Great Resignation, But what else do

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you see as perplexing leaders today in
the world of business. Well, I

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think one of the things that people
are forced to do in order to adapt

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to the changing times is we've shifted
from a model of what we've always called

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shareholder capitalism to now looking at stakeholder
capitalism where you know you had mentioned sustainability

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and ESG and the environmental, social
and governance initiatives. They're no longer nice

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to have. There must have,
right and the business imperative is to have

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these programs in place. Now.
I think the challenges that and I may

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say this respectful that I don't think
people necessarily think of these things strategically.

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They are more reactive in nature than
strategic in nature. So this is another

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area where I'm going to be teaching
a course coming up in the next few

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weeks with a friend of mine,
Kerrie Brossard, who's head of a wonderful

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organization called the Cinderelative CEO. And
anyway, one of the things that we're

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going to talk about is the whole
notion of how do you make your corporate

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Social responsibility or ESG program a profit
center for your company? And that's not

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how people think. People think of
this as sort of the charitable arm or

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the foundation arm of a company that
has to now be integrated into the corporate

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strategy and the brand strategy, not
just to simply appeal to those investors,

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but also customers, employees, regulators, all sorts of constituencies that we may

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not have thought about before. So
how well companies do those diverse city and

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inclusion initiatives, sustainability initiatives, all
those sorts of things are really tantamount to

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a company's success and also drive something
you and I know what we plan to

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talk about this the pride that people
have and working for their company, and

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that ultimately creates that kind of stickiness
that you know, we were talking about

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when we were chatting about the Great
resignation. M Well, let's talk about

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that next. I know you,
I know work proud Is. It has

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been a wonderful collaborator of mine.
They have sponsored the show for a good

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year or such. We do work
together as well. I love I'm a

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fan of their organization and the work
they do. And I know that they

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commissioned you and doctor Bob Nelson to
do a study on pride in the workplace.

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So let's hear a little bit about
that. What did you learn pertinent

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to this conversation about making people want
to come to work? You know a

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lot of a lot of what I
discovered. It was almost sort of a

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big bang theory for me, having
worked in this area for so long,

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only realize that so many of the
initiatives that we focused on in studying the

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employee experience are really coming more from
a rational place and how people think about

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their jobs. You do I get
paid enough? Do I like my boss?

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Do I have decent hours around my
overwork? All these kinds of things

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that really tap more into the way
we think about things with the rational part

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of our brain, not the emotional
part of our brain. And something that

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I've often talked about and spoken about
is something I call irrational commitment, and

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that is the willingness to do things
that don't seem rational, but they're driven

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by the emotional part of our brain, the prefrontal cortex, which is really

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the key motivator and the choices we
make. And what Bob and I discovered

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in his study was that what we
believe is the secret sauce to employee engagement

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and motivation is this whole notion of
pride. How people feel at the end

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of the day about the work they've
done. Does it mean, did it

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make a difference? Did I make
a unique contribution that only I could make?

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And I don't perceive others could have
done as well as I could have

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done. And so we discovered and
really tapped into two concepts, one being

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individual pride that one has in his
or her work. So this is,

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you know, do I think I
did a good job? Do I think

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my work was meaningful? Did it
have a purpose? All those sorts of

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things. Did I help someone or
accomplish something significant? And when we asked

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people what did it feel like to
have a day that you were really proud

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of at work? People would talk
about how they were able to help a

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person that nobody else seemed to be
able to help, or we're able to

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solve a problem that other people were
able to solve, And I started thinking

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about experience as I had had.
I often share the story I had of

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sitting across the aisle in a Southwest
flight with a consultant who worked with the

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Sarah Lee Corporation years ago. And
we all know, pot serrely they make

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the donuts and pastries, But what
people didn't know is at the time they

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were also the parent company for the
Haynes brand. So the same company that

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major pastries and donuts, major socks
and underwear, and every day this consultant

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told me that when people walked into
the office they saw this big banner overhead

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that said we feed and clothe the
world. Let's think about how much more

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powerful that is than we sell pastries
and underwear, you know, going to

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work every day driving that sense of
pride. Now, the second type of

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pride is pride that one has in
his or her company, and personal pride

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can be transportable. So if I'm
proud of the job I do, I

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can be proud of my work doing
it for you or somebody else. But

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what really creates that stickiness in the
face of this great resignation and attracting and

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retaining talent is the whole idea that
I'm proud of whom I work for.

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And one of the striking statistics that
we found in our study is that forty

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eight percent, almost half of those
in the high pride group, the group

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that had a high pride in their
company, strongly agreed gave the strongest response

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to the statement even if I were
offered significantly more money to do the same

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work at another place, I would
choose to stay here, versus only two

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percent in the low pride group,
who probably checked that box by accident.

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But think about that, and when
you look at the cost of turnover,

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you know, the conventional wisdom is
always said that every time you replace an

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employee, it's one and a half
times the person's first year salary. I've

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heard other people quote other numbers,
but let's say that the high that the

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cost of voluntary turnover is quite high. That if you could increase it by

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that much of a factor by driving
pride in the company, you know,

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you can do the math in terms
of how much money you would save and

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how much value you drive for your
company. So what is it that contributes

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to high company pride. One is
something that we've talked about already. Is

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my company perceived as being a good
corporate citizen? Do they do the right

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thing? Do they have a positive
culture where I go in and I feel

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recognized and valued and that people really
respect me and trust me, and my

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manager shows me a concern and praises
my work. But then also, you

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know, there's these other things too
that do they share my values? So

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the things that are important to me
are those things that are equally important to

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my employer and to the extent that
and I remember doing studies and this years

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ago, and it was less than
ten percent strongly agreed with the idea that

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their company's values were completely consistent with
their own. And the more that we

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can drive values alignment and look to
understand what are eployees are concerned about,

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what do they care about, and
then tap our corporate social responsibility initiatives into

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those kinds of causes, then we're
going to get that stronger sense of pride

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value alignment and drive all kinds of
monetary value for the company that people aren't

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even thinking about right now. I
like it sounds good to me. Now,

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one thing that I have certainly become
very attuned to in the twenty five

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years that I be in the human
capital space is the immediate need for so

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many organizations to vastly overhaul any practices
and policies that touch a human being sort

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of some really outdated stuff that just
squashes the spirit of people, you know,

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in terms of promotions, how they
get hired, how they're trained,

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you know, Oh, my gosh, so many things. So I was

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already in a campaign to urge companies
to revamp, to take a look at

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and revamp anything that related to how
they touch people. Do you have a

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perspective or anything you want to share
that, or just even a couple of

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principles about what they might look at
to be able to advance and improve those

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policies. Well, maybe I'll say
something controversial. I don't know, but

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you know that always makes for an
interesting show, right. I think one

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of the things that I'm sad about
in our workforce is that in many ways

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it seems like fear has become sort
of the dominant motion in the culture that

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you know, I'm not saying that
we don't need to have regulations about what

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people can do in the workplace,
or you know what they can say and

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how they can interact with their colleagues. But I think the scary part of

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it is that you become so afraid
and so mistrusted other people because you're so

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afraid of complimenting someone on their appearance
or making an inappropriate joke, or saying

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something that you may not even know
is inappropriate. But we are so sensitive

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as a culture that I think what's
it's really taken away from is that sense

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of camaraderie and trust. Now what's
interesting about that is, you know,

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we had talked I think in our
last conversation offline about the labor unions.

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Labor unions thrive when there's a kind
of an enmity between themselves and management,

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but strong solidarity between themselves and their
co workers. So I trust my co

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workers. I don't trust my managers
well, because nobody trusts their co workers.

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This has been something that has really
impacted the labor movement. And again,

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some people would say that's good,
some people would say that's bad.

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But I don't think that you ever
win or get ahead by having a culture

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00:29:37.839 --> 00:29:42.480
of mistrust where you know you are
afraid of your colleagues. You're afraid to

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say the wrong thing. You're afraid
somebody's going to throw you under the bus.

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So I think again, we need
to find some balance where, you

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know, people can build healthy friendships
with their coworkers. Gallop, of course,

401
00:29:56.880 --> 00:30:02.400
had that infamous question that everybody hates. I have a best friend of

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00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:07.559
work, and everybody, anybody who's
worked with Galub knows that question. I

403
00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:11.039
defended that question for a lot of
my career. I'm glad I don't have

404
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to continue to do so, but
I could if I had to, because

405
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I think what's interesting about it is
that, you know, the data show

406
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that we work more productively with people
that we like and have a close relationship

407
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:30.640
with, versus people that we feel
either disliked toward or indifference toward. Now,

408
00:30:30.680 --> 00:30:34.880
nobody would question that, nobody would
say that that's wrong. I know

409
00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:38.160
when I have customers and co workers
who asked me to go out of my

410
00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:42.680
way and maybe give some discretionary effort
that I might otherwise not have given.

411
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:45.680
If I like you, I'm much
more willing to do that than if I

412
00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:52.799
don't like you. And what's interesting
also is that that question always correlated to

413
00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:56.519
customer experience as well, and you
think that, you know, how in

414
00:30:56.559 --> 00:31:00.279
the world could that be. Well, I mean, people who like each

415
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:04.079
other step up and we'll train you
and show you what you need to do

416
00:31:04.119 --> 00:31:07.839
and give you tips and advice and
step in for you. It has a

417
00:31:07.880 --> 00:31:14.279
good impact on your customers and on
productivity, which again feels counterintuitive to many

418
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:18.559
because you think if you're socializing with
your coworkers too much, that it's taking

419
00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:23.519
away from productivity, when actually you
know it's contributing to productivity. So I

420
00:31:23.559 --> 00:31:27.799
think how we think about these issues, you know, we've kind of swung

421
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:33.720
the pendulman my humble opinion, a
bit too far, and I don't think

422
00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:36.480
that people would disagree with that,
but it's sort of like, what do

423
00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:38.519
you do about it? Because people
are just so letitious these days, and

424
00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:42.759
people don't want to get themselves into
trouble. So we've got to find some

425
00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:47.799
healthy solution to that. And how
I would answer that is that I think,

426
00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:52.160
you know, diversity on all these
characteristics that we think about, but

427
00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:57.440
unity on values that we share the
same values with one another, regardless of

428
00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:01.519
what our ethnicity is, our gender, sexual orientation, or any of those

429
00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:06.119
sorts of things. I'll say them
more about that when we come back from

430
00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:07.640
the break. But that's a perfect
way to send us to our last break.

431
00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:12.119
I'm your host, Doctor Elise Cortez. We've been on the year of

432
00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:15.079
doctor Rick Garlic, the principle of
a research based consultancy focused on enhancing the

433
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:20.640
brand, employee and customer experience and
linking these strategies to improve business results.

434
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:23.000
We've been talking a bit about the
state of business today. We'll talk a

435
00:32:23.039 --> 00:32:27.640
little bit more about that and then
finish the program talking about what we need

436
00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:30.359
to see leaders today. How can
we devout the leaders that can actually deal

437
00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:31.799
with what's up one of them today? Stay with us. We'll be right

438
00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:37.559
back. Doctor Elise Cortez is a
management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose and

439
00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:44.759
inspirational speaker and author. She helps
companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and

440
00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:51.759
develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused
cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

441
00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:55.440
commitment within the workforce. To learn
more or to invite a lease to speak

442
00:32:55.440 --> 00:33:00.119
to your organization, please visit her
at a Lease Cortez Dot. Let's talk

443
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:12.440
about how to get your employees working
on purpose. This is Working on Purpose

444
00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:16.119
with doctor Release Cortez. To reach
our program today or open a conversation with

445
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:23.119
Elise, send an email to Elise
ali Se at Elise Cortez dot com.

446
00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:30.240
Now back to working on Purpose.
Thanksteresting with us, and welcome back to

447
00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:31.759
working on Purpose. One of the
bit of news that I want to share

448
00:33:31.759 --> 00:33:35.000
with you before we get back into
program with Rick is I want to share

449
00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:37.839
with you that at anthology that I've
been curating for the last few years that's

450
00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:40.279
been released is the August of last
year. It's a collection of twenty five

451
00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:45.039
stories from women across the globe who
share their intimate details at finding their purpose

452
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:47.680
and what they're doing now to serve
from. It is called Passionately Striving and

453
00:33:47.720 --> 00:33:51.920
Why, an anthology of women who
persevere mindily to live their purpose. It's

454
00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:54.000
also an Amazon I'm so proud of
it, i could bust. And now

455
00:33:54.039 --> 00:33:57.680
I'm out trolling the world to find
men who want to share their stories.

456
00:33:57.759 --> 00:33:59.839
You know, anyone who'd like to
join us, reach out to me to

457
00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:02.359
Lease at least Cortes dot com if
you're just joining us now. My guest

458
00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:07.200
is doctor Rick Garlic, who currently
serves as Chief Research officer for the Incentive

459
00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:12.239
Research Foundation, where he oversees key
employee motivation research initiatives that advanced the science

460
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:15.920
of the industry. I'm your host, doctor Elis Cortez. So before we

461
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:17.679
get back into the bit about leadership
here, I just wanted to finish a

462
00:34:17.679 --> 00:34:22.559
bit on the last topic. Who
are speaking about Rick about HR practices and

463
00:34:22.599 --> 00:34:27.199
policies. I would just offer to
audiences, really take a look at how

464
00:34:27.280 --> 00:34:31.920
your practices are actually focused on bringing
out the best and nurturing your individual human

465
00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:36.800
being, who is your employee,
your team member, instead of what are

466
00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:39.320
you doing to just make it more
efficient for you the organization. That's all

467
00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:43.599
I would put forth. So when
you start thinking about so much of the

468
00:34:43.639 --> 00:34:46.599
engine really grinds people, it doesn't
actually help serve them to bring their bachelor's

469
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:52.000
not a lot of flexibility. It
really is this is our policy and there's

470
00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:54.159
there's no human heartbeat in that.
So that's all I would say about that

471
00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:59.480
great point. I couldn't agree more
at least, Okay, I knew we

472
00:34:59.480 --> 00:35:04.679
were aligned on I'm in violent agreement
with what you just said. Good good,

473
00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:07.559
Well, you know, I want
to talk this last bit about the

474
00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:10.840
leadership part of it, because let
me just really acknowledge listeners and viewers,

475
00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:14.840
if you are a leader today,
this is not a fun time for you,

476
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:16.320
right, You are not having a
good time. This is this is

477
00:35:16.360 --> 00:35:22.039
a challenge at its highest height for
you. And I certainly respect and appreciate,

478
00:35:22.119 --> 00:35:23.880
and I'm here with you to hold
your hand, and so is Rick.

479
00:35:24.519 --> 00:35:28.840
So I want to first start by
maybe talking Rick, if we can,

480
00:35:29.320 --> 00:35:31.719
from your perspective, what kind of
leader do you think we need in

481
00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:35.639
today's time? So that's pandemic.
This is a time when there's you know,

482
00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:39.320
high focus on ESG sustainability. What
kind of layer do we need today?

483
00:35:39.400 --> 00:35:44.000
Well, I think, to echo
one of the points you just made

484
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:47.239
a few seconds ago, I think
we've got to have people who, to

485
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:52.519
use a term for my academic days, have a certain degree of cognitive complexity.

486
00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:55.400
In other words, they don't see
the world in black and white,

487
00:35:55.400 --> 00:36:00.719
but they see it and shades a
great band. They understand stand that there's

488
00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:05.440
not a one size fits all approach
to anything. And you know, I

489
00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:08.519
just did a study with the Incentive
Research Foundation you mentioned that looked at how

490
00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:14.800
people like to be rewarded and recognize
the work and what we would find is

491
00:36:14.840 --> 00:36:17.760
that there are certain people that what
they love the most, other people hate

492
00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:21.480
the most. So like someone like
myself, I love to be on a

493
00:36:21.559 --> 00:36:25.000
stage and I love to be publicly
acknowledged. Other people that tan themount to

494
00:36:25.079 --> 00:36:30.760
death right at all, and so
understanding that everybody's an individual. And one

495
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:35.679
of the things that I love that
Gallup used to teach is the whole idea

496
00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:40.320
of defining the outcomes that you want
to achieve and then allowing people to find

497
00:36:40.360 --> 00:36:45.639
their own path on how to get
there. So I've worked for leaders,

498
00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:47.159
and you know, and I've liked
these people personally, but you know,

499
00:36:47.199 --> 00:36:51.280
again, sort of coming from the
perspective I come from, you're sort of

500
00:36:51.320 --> 00:36:57.519
internally screaming that they have a process
that worked for them to get them to

501
00:36:57.599 --> 00:37:02.800
where they succeed it and found themselves
at a certain level of influence over others.

502
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:07.000
And they believe that because this path
worked for them, it will work

503
00:37:07.039 --> 00:37:13.280
the same for everyone, and not
everyone works the same way. And there

504
00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:19.599
has to be this ability to understand
what the talents are, the unique abilities

505
00:37:19.639 --> 00:37:23.360
that people bring to the workforce and
maximize those. So, for example,

506
00:37:23.960 --> 00:37:29.559
you know, I will never be
like a great proof reader, you know,

507
00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:31.639
if I were if I were hired
to proofread documents for a living,

508
00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:36.239
I would take twice as long and
make twice as many mistakes, right,

509
00:37:37.159 --> 00:37:39.199
And you know, it's one of
those things that that's just not my gift

510
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:44.559
and not a detail oriented person.
But there are other people that have just

511
00:37:44.599 --> 00:37:49.239
this amazing ability. My wife she
can watch a movie and she can remember

512
00:37:49.320 --> 00:37:53.159
the smallest detail that she sees in
that movie, and it's absolutely amazing to

513
00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:59.480
me. And that the whole idea
of being able to leverage people's talents and

514
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:04.639
the most effective way is recognizing we're
all individuals, we all bring something unique.

515
00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:08.320
And it's this whole notion that Gallup
is promoted about strengths based leadership,

516
00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:13.119
the idea that we need to find
out what people are good at and not

517
00:38:13.239 --> 00:38:15.800
have them spending a lot of time
on things that they're not so great at.

518
00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:21.239
You know, again, my last
company had me spending a lot of

519
00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:24.239
my time doing PowerPoint reports, and
you know, I got a lot better,

520
00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:29.199
but that wasn't something I was great
at. And I thought, point,

521
00:38:29.239 --> 00:38:32.119
There's so many other things I'd rather
be doing than doing PowerPoint decks.

522
00:38:32.360 --> 00:38:36.239
You know, even though this is
something that was sort of in the role

523
00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:39.719
that I had so finding what people
do well, putting them in there,

524
00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:45.079
and just understanding one size to not
fit all and anything. And by the

525
00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:47.800
way, this is something that millennials, who we spend so much time talking

526
00:38:47.800 --> 00:38:52.719
and thinking about. One of the
things about millennials is that they love,

527
00:38:52.760 --> 00:38:57.920
they thrive on flexibility. Flexibility.
If there's a word to describe the millennial,

528
00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:01.320
it's flexibility. They don't want to
be the same as everybody else,

529
00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:05.480
they don't want to be treated the
same as anyone else. And the good

530
00:39:05.559 --> 00:39:09.079
leader, the talented leader, recognizes
that and is able to make those mental

531
00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:15.760
adjustments and adapt to different people's personal
styles and bring out the best of individuals

532
00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:21.360
even though they may not fit the
cookie cutter mall that at one time we

533
00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:29.039
would have demanded in corporate America such
interesting stuff so much there. So you

534
00:39:29.159 --> 00:39:30.119
meant, there's quite that you just
gave us there. But I want to

535
00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:32.239
make sure if there's anything else you
could think of in the way of like

536
00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:37.760
competencings or skills that you think that
today's leader just really is best served to

537
00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:40.480
have. Yeah, you know again, skills was always a bit of a

538
00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:45.400
dirty word to me because skills was
something that you could always learn skills,

539
00:39:45.800 --> 00:39:51.199
but what you couldn't learn was talent. So you had to have certain talent.

540
00:39:51.320 --> 00:39:53.719
And then if you brought people in
who didn't have the background, if

541
00:39:53.719 --> 00:39:58.519
they had the right talents, they
could they could learn the skills. So

542
00:39:58.559 --> 00:40:00.880
I'll just say, what talents do
people need? I think people need?

543
00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:07.199
And these are not always thought of
his talents, but that notion of being

544
00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:13.679
able to see those subtle nuances,
those shades of gray and understand that yesterday's

545
00:40:13.719 --> 00:40:20.400
situation may require a different solution than
today's and tomorrow's, and the ability almost

546
00:40:20.440 --> 00:40:23.800
has spending a dime. I think
probably the least inspiring word I ever heard

547
00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:28.480
from a leader, and I won't
say the company, but I remember him

548
00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:31.119
getting up and always saying, let's
stay the course. You know, we

549
00:40:31.119 --> 00:40:35.960
were successful last year doing this,
and we're just going to stay the course

550
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:38.119
for the future. And I think
that if you stay the course, it's

551
00:40:38.199 --> 00:40:44.440
just kind of a formula for disaster. I remember again my last year at

552
00:40:44.440 --> 00:40:46.920
Gallop. I remember Jim Clifton,
who is the CEO of Gallop at the

553
00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:52.239
time, talking about the successful year
we had had the year before, and

554
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:58.320
in every metric of success. Gallup
had a great year in nineteen ninety nine,

555
00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:01.880
and so he had everybody give themselves
a hand. He says, Okay,

556
00:41:01.920 --> 00:41:06.800
as of today, I'm blowing all
this up and I'm starting from scratch.

557
00:41:07.400 --> 00:41:09.239
Why would I do that? And
he laid out the course, and

558
00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:13.559
I thought, Wow, this is
really great leadership, you know, because

559
00:41:13.880 --> 00:41:16.639
he's not relying on what's happened before, but he's seeing the tea leaves,

560
00:41:16.679 --> 00:41:20.280
he's seeing, you know, where
the ball is going down the field,

561
00:41:20.599 --> 00:41:23.079
and he's getting the position to adapt
for it. So those are the qualities

562
00:41:23.119 --> 00:41:29.280
in my mind of being a great
leader. That's perfectly lines me up for

563
00:41:29.320 --> 00:41:32.320
the next question I want to ask
you, Rick. So I really focused

564
00:41:32.360 --> 00:41:36.599
on this notion of where we are
today as leaders, and so I'm curious

565
00:41:36.599 --> 00:41:40.079
about your perspective of what made for
effective leaders, say ten years ago versus

566
00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:45.800
today. Well, again, I
think that And again I don't mean to

567
00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:47.639
be unkind, but you're asking me
direct questions, so I'm giving you direct

568
00:41:47.679 --> 00:41:52.400
answers. I think that one of
the one of the things that people look

569
00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:55.679
for in leaders ten years ago,
they look for people who could really manage

570
00:41:55.679 --> 00:42:00.639
the bottom line effectively. So you
know, I mean basically, again not

571
00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:04.760
not picking on these people because I
love them, but most of the CEOs

572
00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:09.199
came from either a finance background and
operations background, or possibly a legal background.

573
00:42:09.719 --> 00:42:15.440
Those were the three categories that people
hired from that pool to pick their

574
00:42:15.480 --> 00:42:19.760
next CEO. Again, these people
are great, and they're very successful in

575
00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:25.079
many ways, but I always found
that people came from a marketing background made

576
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:30.960
great CEOs insofar as that they're thinking
about customer needs, they're thinking about their

577
00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:36.519
employees needs, and they're always looking
for that next big thing. And so

578
00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:39.960
you know, again a different type
of mindset is required today, and you

579
00:42:40.039 --> 00:42:45.840
read about these people when you read
books on successful companies. They're people who

580
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:51.559
came in you know, maybe not
so they didn't have that operational kind of

581
00:42:51.559 --> 00:42:53.400
how many beds, heads and beds
can you put on? How many widgets

582
00:42:53.440 --> 00:42:58.480
can you sell at the cheapest price? But they really focused on a bigger

583
00:42:58.519 --> 00:43:06.079
picture, believing, believing that whole
idea that engage motivated proud employees, purposeful

584
00:43:06.119 --> 00:43:12.440
employees drove value beyond what you could
do by simply trying to manage to that

585
00:43:12.559 --> 00:43:19.199
bottom line biggest profits at the lowest
costs. So I think that's my answer

586
00:43:19.239 --> 00:43:22.320
to that question. It's just I
think a different approach to leadership and even

587
00:43:22.360 --> 00:43:30.159
a different type of individual that we
might think about moving forward. I really

588
00:43:30.199 --> 00:43:34.400
appreciate to distinguish yesteryear and today.
I would sprinkle in a few things that

589
00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:37.760
I found to be really really critical
to the effective leadership anyone. Is you

590
00:43:37.760 --> 00:43:40.639
got to be able to be able
to inspire people, to be able to

591
00:43:40.679 --> 00:43:45.400
reach beyond what they think they can
do. You need emotional intelligence to do

592
00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:47.239
that, and oftentimes, to your
point of marketing, you need to be

593
00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:51.039
a pretty good storyteller. By that, I mean to be able to tell

594
00:43:51.079 --> 00:43:53.280
the story why does the company exist
and how are they serving the world?

595
00:43:53.320 --> 00:43:57.639
How are they making things better?
People are wired to hear those stories,

596
00:43:57.719 --> 00:44:01.079
right, So a good communicator who
can why the company is important, how

597
00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:07.159
this person's work is makes this the
company actually home beautiful? Right. So

598
00:44:07.199 --> 00:44:08.360
that's still back. You know,
I can't help a rick, right,

599
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:12.480
I'm always going to sing the praises
of meaning and purpose. That's just it's

600
00:44:12.519 --> 00:44:15.400
my jam. As you should,
as you should, and you know again,

601
00:44:15.519 --> 00:44:20.400
I work with a lot of CEOs
who come from the very backgrounds I

602
00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:23.760
just referenced and you know, they're
wonderful people, but they have a talent.

603
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:28.760
They have a lot of talent at
being great managers. I think that

604
00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:31.920
there's a difference between being a manager
and a leader. And that's not to

605
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:38.280
say that yeah, that's not to
say that people anyone from any background can't

606
00:44:38.280 --> 00:44:45.400
be an inspirational leader. I literally
I was as keynote speaker at an event,

607
00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:50.079
the regional conference for the World conference
actually for Carlston Hotels back in the

608
00:44:50.159 --> 00:44:53.719
day, and I saw the CEO
literally at this banquet jumped to save someone's

609
00:44:53.760 --> 00:45:00.440
life and who was having an epileptic
seizure at great risk to himsel elf and

610
00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:04.679
I just thought, Wow, there's
a guy who really understands serve and leadership.

611
00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:07.360
And he had a law background.
So I mean, very impressive.

612
00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:10.440
I mean, there are some very
impressive people out there. There's so much

613
00:45:10.480 --> 00:45:14.679
we can learn as well. So
Rick or we've done it. We manage

614
00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:16.199
to go through almost were together.
We're at the end of the show that

615
00:45:16.239 --> 00:45:19.760
you know, the shows acid to
why people around the world who want to

616
00:45:19.760 --> 00:45:22.519
make the workplaces someplace where people actually
want to come and thrive, we create

617
00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:27.079
those integrational leaders that bring them to
their best, and we do business better

618
00:45:27.119 --> 00:45:30.599
as the world. What would you
like to lead them with today? Well,

619
00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:34.800
again, I think it's thinking differently, you know, listening to people

620
00:45:34.880 --> 00:45:39.559
like yourself, you know, who
are great champions and ambassadors for the whole

621
00:45:39.639 --> 00:45:45.159
idea of the critical importance of things
like purpose and workplace pride and pride in

622
00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:51.719
one's company as being just as important
as operational efficiency. And if there's one

623
00:45:51.760 --> 00:45:54.639
thing I can leave the audience with, it's understanding that we're human beings.

624
00:45:54.639 --> 00:46:00.639
We're not robots, and even in
manufacturing environments, you know, there's so

625
00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:02.840
much more of that human element that
we're just not simply pushing a button.

626
00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:08.480
But we bring hopes and dreams and
aspirations and goals and values, and those

627
00:46:08.519 --> 00:46:13.960
things sometimes get messy and we don't
necessarily understand how to always address them.

628
00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:17.920
But to the extent that we can
do that successfully, and like you said,

629
00:46:17.960 --> 00:46:21.800
you know you're ready to help them. I'm ready to help them and

630
00:46:21.840 --> 00:46:25.639
make other people to get a vision
for this. I think the extent that

631
00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:30.639
you can do that, that's what
you need in today's modern workforce to be

632
00:46:30.719 --> 00:46:35.719
successful. Fantastic ways to show thank
you so much for joining us, I

633
00:46:35.800 --> 00:46:37.119
really appreciate that. It's great to
know you're great to have you in my

634
00:46:37.119 --> 00:46:40.039
life and great to share you with
my listeners. What a pleasure, and

635
00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:43.800
let's do it again. Will do? You can run, but you can

636
00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:46.239
hide for me. I don't want
to. Okay, good, Well I'm

637
00:46:46.239 --> 00:46:51.360
pretty fast too, So listeners of
viewers, you will learn more about doctor

638
00:46:51.400 --> 00:46:53.880
Garlic or the work that he does
his numerous articles. Start by going to

639
00:46:53.920 --> 00:46:58.119
LinkedIn and finding him there is.
His name is Rick r I c K.

640
00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:01.239
His last name is g R LK. You can message him or connect

641
00:47:01.280 --> 00:47:04.840
with him. Last week, if
you missed the live show, you can

642
00:47:04.880 --> 00:47:07.679
always catch it via recorded podcast.
We are on youre with Melie Pump talking

643
00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:13.159
about her book Detox, Managing insecurity
in the workplace and how leaders can create

644
00:47:13.239 --> 00:47:15.880
healthy cultures built in psychological safety.
Next week will be on the air with

645
00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:21.480
Chris King talking about the work he
does helping teams achieve impossible work through flow.

646
00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:22.960
See you there. Remember that works
at least a third of our life.

647
00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:29.440
So let's work on purpose. We
hope you've enjoyed this week's program.

648
00:47:29.519 --> 00:47:32.679
Be sure to tune in too Working
on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise

649
00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:38.440
Cortez each week on the Voice America
Empowerment channel. Together, we'll create a

650
00:47:38.480 --> 00:47:46.159
world where business operates conscientiously, Leadership
inspires impassioned performance, and employees are fulfilled

651
00:47:46.199 --> 00:47:51.320
in work that provides the meaning and
purpose they crave. See you there.

652
00:47:51.840 --> 00:48:00.159
Let's work on purpose the