March 18, 2025

The “Generator” Leadership Method: Elevating Workplace Wellness

The “Generator” Leadership Method: Elevating Workplace Wellness

Discover how to shift from an Extinguisher to a Generator leader, transforming workplace wellness and boosting employee satisfaction, commitment, and productivity. Explore how this enlightened approach not only enhances your bottom line but also...

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Discover how to shift from an Extinguisher to a Generator leader, transforming workplace wellness and boosting employee satisfaction, commitment, and productivity. Explore how this enlightened approach not only enhances your bottom line but also extends wellness benefits beyond your team, enriching communities. Join us as Katina Sawyer, PhD shares insights on fostering a culture where everyone thrives and leaving a lasting leadership legacy. Ready to empower your team to thrive as a Generator?

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WEBVTT

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The topics and opinions express in the following show are

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What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the

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answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose

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at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their

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lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization

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that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their

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highest potential. Business can be such a force for good

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in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide

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guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we

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all want working on Purpose. Now here's your host, doctor

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Elise Cortes.

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Welcome back to the Working and Purpose program, which has

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been brought to with passion and pride since February of

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twenty fifteen. Thanks for tuning in this week. Great to

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have you. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes. If we

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have not met before and you don't know me, I'm

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an organizational psychologist to management consultant, local therapists, speaker and author.

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My team and I at Gusto Now help companies to

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enliven and fortify their operations by building a dynamic, high

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performance culture and inspirational leadership activated by meaning and purpose.

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And did you know that inspired employees outperform their satisfied

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peers by a factor of two point twenty five to one.

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In other words, inspiration is good for the bottom line.

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You can learn more about us on how we can

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work together at gustodashnow dot com or my personal site

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at Lascortes dot com. Before we get into today's program,

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I am thrilled to announce the registration is open for

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a fabulous new conference for women for which I'll serve

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as the MC. It's called Thrive in twenty five and

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is a jam packed few days in Chicago June twenty

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fifth through twenty eight, twenty twenty five, designed to develop

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women as whole selves from both during your mindset to

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your financial acumen, to leadership, to incorporating nature and art

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into your life to raise consciousness, and much more. Visit

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thrive in twenty five dot com for information and to register.

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Use my promo code Gusto all caps to gain access

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to the free books and programs. I'll be gifting registrants

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as well. See you there now getting in today's program

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we have with us today. Katina Sawyer a PhD and

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Associate Professor of Management and Organization in the Ellers College

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of Management at the University of Arizona. She's also co

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founder of Worker Being, co host of the Thriving at

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Work podcast, and co author of Leading for Wellness, How

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to create a team culture where everyone thrives, which will

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be diving into today. Specifically, we'll be discussing workplace wellness,

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why it's important, and what's in it for you as

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a leader to improve it, and then discuss several key

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behaviors leaders can develop to cultivate wellness in their organizations.

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She knows today from Tucson, Arizona. Doctor Sooya a hearty

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welcome to Working on Purpose.

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Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here.

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Me too, and I just love celebrating, you know, really

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beautiful things that get put into the world, like this

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thing right here, right and as you know, of course

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I read it cover to cover, can quite sepers but

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you're so welcome. You're so welcome. And of course, as

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I mentioned in our correspondence, you know, there's a lot

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of things that you're up to in your business, your podcast,

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your book that aligns a lot with my world. So

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that's going to be a fun conversation. Okay, So the

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first thing I want to do is I want to

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step into just let's talk about definitions and situating what

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we're talking about here. So let's talk about what just

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wellness means first.

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Sure.

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Yeah, So actually this was something we were interested in

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when we started writing the book. While wellness has some

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academic definitions, and actually those take varied forms, so there's

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not a lot of agreement in the scientific literature of

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what wellness means either. We feel like when companies say

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wellness and when employees say wellness, they're not always speaking

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the same language. And so one of the things that

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we initially wanted to do in our research for the

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book was really tacked down what does wellness mean to

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employees when they say they want companies to support their wellness,

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And what we found is that it had four components,

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a physical component, an emotional component, a mental health component,

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and a work life balance component. And those seem to

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be the things that employees are looking for when they're

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saying they want organizations to support their wellness.

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M beautiful, so, Crisp. The other thing that was kind

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of interesting about that is when it comes to this

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idea of wellness. I mean I remember during the pandemic, Katina,

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when we started talking about well being as an important

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thing that the c suitet leaders were focused on, and

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I thought, oh, this is good. We haven't been talking

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about this for quite someever, have we. Even the Gallup

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organization went from engagement to a well being. Yeah, that

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was a really good thing. And then you know, something happened.

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I don't know.

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So I'm so happy to see that you are advancing

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this initiative and you've got resources, you're putting this out

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into the world because I think it's sorely needed and important,

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and I think it got sort of sent to the

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back seat again.

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Yeah, I think specifically, certain components of wellness got sent

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to the back seat at the time of the pandemic,

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people were emotionally suffering quite a lot and having a

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lot of authentic and vulnerable conversations.

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And then it was kind of like companies wanted to.

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Put Pandora back in the box, you know, like we're

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just going to forget that happen and move forward and

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readopt our old norms.

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And that doesn't work.

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Like, once the cats out of that bag, it's really

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hard to go backwards, right. And So while we still

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see companies spending money on workplace wellness initiatives and doing

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step challenges and things like that, which aren't bad in

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and of themselves, certain components, the tougher components, the components

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that are actually about changing the norms of our workplace

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seem to have been pushed back to the back burner,

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as you're suggesting.

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Which is really this conversation is really exciting for me, Katina,

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because I really am I'm a future of work sort

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of researcher. I'm a social scientist here about work being

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a place where people can see it as a experience,

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as a playground and not a solow crushing place that

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they have to go to with their paycheck. So and

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I do I have seen that gap between how the

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workforce has evolved, think in part in part because of

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what's been catalyzed in the pandemic. But yet, you know,

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unfortunately our companies and much of our leadership is still

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you know, there's a gap between those two domains.

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One hundred percent.

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Yeah, I think we are really held onto these sticky

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norms that we talk about in the book called ideal

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worker norms, and those norms were actually derived back in

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time when employees had more focused spheres between work and

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life that they were dedicated towards. And of course we've

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made great progress in having more flexibility and letting people

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choose which spheres they're more attracted to. Do they want

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to be more focused on life or work or work

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or life, right, But at the time that these ideal

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worker norms came about, it was more traditional, you know,

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a normative couple split, where a husband would go into

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the workforce and a wife would stay home. And the

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assumption with sort of that work can be number one

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at all times and other things aren't interrupting. And while

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we've evolved somewhat on that front, the world has changed

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much faster than our norms have, and so we're trying

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to cling on to this old norm of what it

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means to be a leader and what it means to

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be a good employee that just doesn't match the realities

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of the lives that employees live.

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Completely agree, one hundred percent. So you know, there is

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a lot of research out there. Your research is gold,

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and there's just so much out there that speaks, you know,

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to what needs to happen. So why aren't leaders focusing

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on wellness? And if they do, how are they, as

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you like to say, treating it.

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Yeah, so I think that leaders are sort of taking

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cues from what their organizations ask them to prioritize. And

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while workplaces have been investing more time and energy and

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attention into employee health and wellbeing, it's not what they

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ask their leaders to focus on. They ask their leaders

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to focus on results and the bottom line and making

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sure that you know, they're delivering on expectations. And because

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they're not asking leaders to see and framing these wellness

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initiatives or wellness focuses in as part of what does

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help drive those results, leaders view them as being at

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odds and so they think, well, either I can make

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people happy and healthy, or I can drive results.

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But when push comes to shove.

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I'm going to just try to be results focused, which

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often means, you know, overwork making people put the pedals

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to the medal, deprioritizing their lives, which we all know

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as a recipe for burnout and a lower level of

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productivity in the long term. But what they're trying to

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do is prioritize what they hear their workplace is saying.

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And workplaces are not often putting these two things in

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conversation with one another.

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That's very chris So that brings us to then what

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can we actually do as leaders just start to change

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the tide of the ship. And I love that in

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all the search that you do, and I love research too.

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This is great. You found at least two kinds of leaders,

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and I don't know if they were more in your research,

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but I'm interested certainly what you talk about in the book,

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the generators and the extinguishers. So let's let our listeners

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and viewers understand what are those two leaders like?

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Sure?

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Yeah, So in the research we did for the book,

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we asked people to nominate and discuss with us leaders

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they had who they felt were exemplary at supporting their wellness,

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and we did dozens of in depth interviews and then

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hundreds of people filled out surveys afterwards to sort of

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verify our findings to try to understand who those people

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were and what they were doing, and we came up

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with the term generator because the leaders who we heard

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about who were exemplary at doing this tended to be

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leaders who really amplified the energy on their team, made

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people feel extra engaged at work, made people feel like

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their health was better than ever physical health, mental health.

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So not only were they thriving in their workplaces, they

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were also feeling like their lives were improving and that

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they were having a great level of work life balance

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that they act actually we're reaching a balance that was

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appropriate for them, that they felt in balance, and so

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all of those things led us to name these leaders

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who we are providing a roadmap in our book for

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how to become more like generators.

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The interesting thing.

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About the process of doing the interviews and surveys for

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this book was that while we were asking people to

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really focus on we don't want to know what not

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to do, because the presence of good leadership isn't just

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the absence of bad leadership.

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So we don't want this book to be a bunch

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of like don't, don't, don't, don't, don't do this right.

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We want it to be what can you do to

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get yourself proactively great at this? And what we found

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in the interviews was that it was often challenging to

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keep people on track from talking about foils to this. So,

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you know, we'd hear a lot of let me tell

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you about this great leader that I had, this is

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what this person did in comparison to this horrible person

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that I had, And then they would go on and

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talk about and tell stories about.

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These other folks.

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And what we started to realize was that the natural

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emergence of these stories about extinguishers, which we ended up

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calling them in the book, the extinguishers are really people

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who suck energy and life out of a team and

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out of their employees. And we realized that one of

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the reasons these were organically occurring stories about these folks

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were organically occurring was because people really view the generators

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in opposition to or they were highlighting a useful distinction

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for us that we actually found helpful in conveying these

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concepts in our book, which is it's not just about

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avoiding being an extinguisher, which you also need to learn.

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It's about getting to being a generator, but you kind

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of need to understand the behaviors of both to get

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yourself to that place.

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Gorgeous, so well said. You know, when I was doing

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my meeting and work and identity research for my PhD,

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I started to recognize as I was asking people about

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their identities and I forget how it came up, but

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who people that they'd learned things from. I discovered what

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concept that I began to call the anti role model.

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People would talk about, you know, who they did not

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want to be, Like, thanks very much for showing me

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who I don't want to be. Yeah, so listeners and viewers,

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let's talk. Let's just distinguishing me from my vantage point

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that the anti role model would be the extinguisher.

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Correct, Yes, that's correct.

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And I love that term anti role model because you

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can and these folks did. Who we talked to learned

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a lot from the people who they had negative experiences with.

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But it was a painful process, right, So so learning

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was happening, but also some strife.

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Yeah for sure. Okay, since now we're now getting into

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the leader leadership and leader realm, here I think it

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makes a ton of sense, especially for people that are

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thinking this is really soft and squishy and you know,

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not a lot of substance here. Let's talk about the

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workplace wellness matters, how it actually matters. I know you've

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got at least four perspectives in the book, but let's

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let's hit those next.

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Yeah, so we view workplace wellness as well.

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You know, obviously we wrote this book so we feel

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really confident that workplace wellness is an important top to

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focus on.

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But we also think about this not.

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Just from the perspective of individual employees, which is one

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level which we've already talked about a little bit. People

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get more satisfied, they feel more engaged, they are more committed,

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so the quality of their.

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Experience at work improves, right.

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But there's also benefits in it for the leader themselves,

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and I think that that's something that often gets overlooked.

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We heard not only that the employees were feeling better,

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but also that leaders who lead this way actually have

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better experiences in their work lives and tend to leave

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behind better legacies that they can be more proud of.

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They also have teams that are willing to kind of

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stick with them stand by them, they have stronger relationships

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with them, and as human beings, we want to have

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strong relationships with people across domains, whether that's work or

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in our personal lives. So the leaders actually end up

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having a better time. And then the last two have

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to do with organizational and societal implicationations.

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So when individuals and leaders.

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Are thriving and having better experiences and stronger relationships and

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feeling more productive and committed, that rises the tide of

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the organization. The organization overall becomes more productive, bottom line

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goes up. They also become a better place to work,

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so easier to recruit and retain talent. But word of

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mouth goes a long way. People speak more positively, that

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net promoter score that folks sometimes talk about, So your organization.

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Looks better, feels better, does better.

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And the last piece, which is really what got Patricia

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and I into doing industrial organizational psychology to begin with,

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is that businesses can have a huge impact on society.

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And when we think about the responsibility that organizations have

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to produce healthy, whole citizens who have energy to give

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back to their communities and their families and their friends,

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that's something that can boost an entire area, an entire region,

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right when you have good employers in that area. Because

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if you're spitting out a bunch of people who are

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burn out and irritated and frustrated and just want to

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roll up in a ball and go to bed at

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the end of the day, versus people who want to

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get out of their workplace and have a great meal

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with family and friends and go coach their kids.

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Sports team or whatever the case may be. That improves

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whole communities.

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And that's what we really think is great about unlocking

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these secrets is that as a leader, you can see

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the ripple effects down, but you can also see the

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ripple effects out and up.

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I'm really aligned with that, Katina. You know, I'm a

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conscious capitalist, and my business books are certainly grounded in

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conscious capitalism. And even if we just forget about all

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the amazing bottom line results that you're going to get

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by focusing on this and you start to recognize that

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business can truly be a force for good in the world,

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it's so inspiring. And what we also know, Katina, is

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those kinds of organizations that behave that way, that perform

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in that way, tend to attract a lot more investors

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and I'm more interested. And then, of course, you know, employees,

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as you were saying before, opt into that with their feet,

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and consumers opt in with their wallets. So yeah, there's

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a lot of reason to be able to start to

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incorporate this kind of thinking into the way that you

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operate as a business. Totally, speaking of business, I got

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to ask you about yours and if you've got to

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start with why you named it worker being, it's so fantastic.

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So tell us about worker being how it came to

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be in what you're doing.

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Yeah.

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So, Patricia and I are friends from graduate school. We

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met while we were doing our PhDs in industrial organizational psychology,

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and we both studied sort.

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Of similar things.

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That had to do with what helps employees and workplaces

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to thrive. She studied more emotions at work and the

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expression of emotions at work. I studied more on the

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diversity and inclusion side of things, but we were both

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interested in the same end goal. We stayed in touch

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as friends after graduation, close touch, and I went into

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academia and she went into practice, and we ended up

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at a friend's wedding and after a couple of glasses

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of wine, we were talking about some of the things

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that were kind of frustrating us about what we were

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hearing from students and clients, and one of those things

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was that we felt like there wasn't a lot of

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translation of the science of workplace wellness into the actual workplace, right,

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And so we knew there was all this great research

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out there that we had learned in graduate school, but

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we were still noticing that our students and our clients

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were asking us very basic questions for which there was

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like decades of research on to answer those questions. And

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that was making us realize that this information must not

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be very accessible to the average employee.

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So we started thinking about why that was.

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And one of the main reasons is because, well, first

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of all, you need training to decipher these academic articles

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where a lot of this research sits. And second, they're

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behind a paywall, and so if your organization doesn't have

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access to these things, which most don't, it's really challenging

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to get your hands on that. So you're always reading

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a synthesis or other people's take on the research as

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opposed to the source, and that can sort of muddy

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the waters, right. So our initial idea with worker being

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was let's start a blog where we take different topics

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that we know the research on and we make them

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very accessible and we link to other places that are

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not behind a paywall where people might be able to

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actually access some of this data and start spreading the

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word that way. And once people caught onto the blog,

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they suggested that maybe we start a podcast, because people

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don't always like to read, they also like to listen,

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so we did that, and then as we were doing

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those two things, we noticed that people kept asking us

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a lot for actions. So, yeah, I really believe in

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the power of workplace wellness and I like what you

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both doing.

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I'm a leader. Give me a Roadmack, give me an

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action plan.

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And when we went to the literature to look for that,

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that was one of the first times we got kind

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of stumped. There wasn't really anything out there that provided that.

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So we decided at that point to pivot and do

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some of our own original research, which is what produced

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the book, and to round out the end or why

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do we call it worker being?

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We think the idea of a worker.

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Bee is a you know, a well known concept that

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you're sort of just this, you know, put your head down,

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cog and a wheel, and we want people to shift

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their focus away from employees being worker bees to thinking

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about their well being.

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So worker being was born gorgeous.

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I love it. Okay, And on that note, let's let's

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let's grab our first break. I'm your host, doctor Earlei Scrtesk.

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We're on the air with doctor Katina Sawyer and Associate

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Professor of Management and Organization Organizations in the other College

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of Management at the University of Arizona, also co founder

408
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of Worker Being, the co host of the Thriving at

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Work podcast. We've been talking about what is well placed

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workplace wellness, why it's important, and why should care about it.

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After the break, we're going to get into teaching you

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about some of these generator behaviors leaders can develop an

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embrace to to create that kind of a workplace for

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your organization. We'll be right back.

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Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

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00:20:12.799 --> 00:20:16.599
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies

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visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

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leadership and meaning imfuse cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

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commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

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00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:30.599
a lease to speak to your organization. Please visit her

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00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:33.880
at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

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00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:42.720
your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose

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00:20:42.839 --> 00:20:46.079
with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or

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00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:48.880
to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to

425
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:54.480
Alise A Lisee at elisecortes dot com. Now back to

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00:20:54.599 --> 00:20:55.720
working on Purpose.

427
00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:02.920
Thanks for saying with us, and welcome back to working

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on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as I too,

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00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:08.240
am dedicated to helping create a world where people realize

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their potential at work, are led by inspirational leaders that

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help them find and contribute their greatness, and we do

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business that betters the world. I continue to research and

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write my own books. So my last one came out

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00:21:17.559 --> 00:21:20.559
in twenty twenty three. It's called The Great Revitalization, How

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00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:23.599
activating meaning and purpose can radically in liven your business.

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And I wrote it to.

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Help leaders understand what we've been talking about in this program,

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how the world the workforce has changed, and what do

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00:21:31.240 --> 00:21:33.440
you need to do as an organization in your culture

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to address that to provide that. So then I provide

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00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:38.119
you twenty two best practices to equip you to put

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00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:40.039
that into your culture so that they will stay with

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00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:42.519
you and actually thrive. You can find my books on

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00:21:42.559 --> 00:21:45.359
Amazon or on my personal site at least Coortes dot

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00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:48.039
com if you are just now joining us. My guest

446
00:21:48.079 --> 00:21:51.559
is doctor Katina Sawyer, the co author of Leading for Wellness,

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00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:55.200
How to Create a Team culture where everyone Thrives. So

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now let's get through as many as we can in

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the time that we have here. I want to talk

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about these beautiful generator behaviors that leaders can develop. So

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one of the things that we do in this program

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is we educate and we also inspire, So I always

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want people to leave the show with actionable things they

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can start to do and fold into their practice. So

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let's talk about as many of these as we can.

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So I'll start with the first one, which of course

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I can't resist. You say that generator behaviors that show

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that people that they're that humans. Leaders are actually human

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beings and not superhumans. So therefore that requires that they

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must fire their work self.

461
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Yeah, we really couch this.

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Going back to that concept of ideal worker norms, so

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many of us take on work personas that we've adapted

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and adopted from people we've seen you mentioned, you know,

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role models, anti role models.

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Who do you want to be like? Who do you

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not want to be like?

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However, often the things that we've sort of embodied are subconscious.

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We might be promoting norms that we haven't even.

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Thought through, and we might be setting a tone that

471
00:23:02.599 --> 00:23:06.359
we're not even consciously aware of, or that we haven't

472
00:23:06.400 --> 00:23:09.039
selected ourselves. We sort of passed down the behaviors that

473
00:23:09.079 --> 00:23:11.319
we see from other people, we don't often think about

474
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:14.319
how much they're really us. And so the idea of

475
00:23:14.359 --> 00:23:17.640
firing your work self is really taking some contemplative time

476
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:20.400
to think about who you are and how you show

477
00:23:20.480 --> 00:23:23.599
up at work and whether that's genuinely and authentically you,

478
00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:26.200
or whether that's a set of norms and behaviors that

479
00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:28.920
you've picked up along the way that don't really really

480
00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:32.079
reflect how you want to lead. And so when we

481
00:23:32.119 --> 00:23:35.079
say fire your work self, we mean really thinking hard

482
00:23:35.079 --> 00:23:38.480
about who your work self is, whether that aligns with

483
00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:41.799
your true self, and firing the parts that are not

484
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:45.440
authentic to you, and beginning to lead from a place

485
00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:49.039
of centeredness around your individuality totally.

486
00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:51.599
And for that, this next one I think is probably

487
00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:54.039
going to make a few people cringe just a little bit,

488
00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:56.160
and yet it's so so so important, and that's the

489
00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:58.240
idea of embracing your struggle.

490
00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:00.640
Yes, yeah, yeah, So.

491
00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:05.319
We got this idea from the participants in our study,

492
00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:09.680
but also an anecdote from my personal life. An academic

493
00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:12.759
who I admire so so much told me about a

494
00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:16.200
practice that she does called an anti resume, which is

495
00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:22.160
basically putting all the things she's very decorated many accolades,

496
00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:24.480
and her students were saying, you know, I just don't

497
00:24:24.480 --> 00:24:26.799
know how I can be you like you win at everything.

498
00:24:26.839 --> 00:24:29.160
You're just successful all the time. And she really took

499
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:31.319
that to heart and thought, you know what, I'm going

500
00:24:31.400 --> 00:24:33.640
to make a list of all the things I've failed at.

501
00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:35.960
Every grant I applied for that I didn't get, every

502
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:39.359
class I taught where my ratings weren't great, every journal

503
00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:41.720
article that I submitted that got rejected, and I'm going

504
00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:44.400
to give that to my students along with my resume.

505
00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:48.759
And really that line of thinking really has always resonated

506
00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:51.079
with me from early in my career that we don't

507
00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:53.519
see a lot of these struggle statements from people who

508
00:24:53.519 --> 00:24:56.720
have been successful were in leadership roles, and so people

509
00:24:56.799 --> 00:24:59.240
just assume that they're not that they're not struggling, that

510
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:01.680
things just come to them, that they don't have any

511
00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:06.640
worries or fears. And what we have found out in

512
00:25:06.680 --> 00:25:09.880
this idea that people don't want superhero leaders is that

513
00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:12.960
when you share your struggles, it actually creates stronger and

514
00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:16.440
more authentic bonds with other people around you because they're

515
00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:19.519
struggling with things too, and instead of sort of highlighting

516
00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:22.240
that there's something wrong with you, you're actually highlighting that

517
00:25:22.279 --> 00:25:25.200
there's a commonality between you and the people who you're leading.

518
00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:28.319
So you're thinking you're pointing out something negative about yourself,

519
00:25:28.519 --> 00:25:30.519
Really what you're showing is that you all share in

520
00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:33.680
the fact that you're not perfect, and that creates really strong,

521
00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:37.559
authentic bonds. But it also motivates people to think that

522
00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:40.200
they can also be leaders, because if you think that

523
00:25:40.279 --> 00:25:42.920
leaders have to be perfect and you know that you're

524
00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:45.759
not perfect, you may not try to be a leader

525
00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:48.119
because you don't see that as a possible outcome for you.

526
00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:51.160
So not only is it helpful for building these relationships,

527
00:25:51.319 --> 00:25:53.559
but it's also helpful for making sure that the people

528
00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:56.799
who you're trying to cultivate and mentor actually see leadership

529
00:25:56.839 --> 00:25:59.039
as a viable option for them.

530
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:01.519
I love that. And also, in addition, that occurs to

531
00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:06.319
me that that practice of showing your struggles and what

532
00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:08.799
you've dealt with and how you've grown through them, what

533
00:26:08.839 --> 00:26:12.480
that does is it creates a learning culture. Right, we learn,

534
00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:15.000
we grow here, That's how we do here. And I

535
00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:17.279
really like that I have a woman and that she's

536
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:19.559
a leader that I've been coaching for years as within

537
00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:22.640
the organization that I work with, and she has this

538
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:24.599
thing where she this is related to both the first

539
00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:28.279
two behaviors. She says, she's developed this pattern of saying

540
00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:30.880
this is me being vulnerable, and then she goes on

541
00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:34.599
to say something that she's struggling with. It works beautiful

542
00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:36.240
because as soon as she says that, one, people are

543
00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:39.279
leaning in and listening yes, and two she's just opened

544
00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:41.799
this beautiful space between them. So it's kind of a

545
00:26:41.799 --> 00:26:44.759
combination the first to the first two generator behaviors. But

546
00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:47.279
I love that in that beautiful And then you know,

547
00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:49.640
having struggle statements. I know in the book you talk

548
00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:52.880
about developing actual struggle statements that show others that you

549
00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:56.599
have weaknesses at work. Too, But I think that is

550
00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:59.160
that just I think there's so much there because people

551
00:26:59.160 --> 00:27:01.319
look at your like, wow, they're the big VP or

552
00:27:01.319 --> 00:27:03.440
they're the CEO whatever, and you know, but they didn't

553
00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:05.680
strip that way right exactly.

554
00:27:05.799 --> 00:27:06.079
Yeah.

555
00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:09.720
Some of the best conversations that I've seen are panels

556
00:27:09.799 --> 00:27:12.559
that I've seen with very senior people in organizations, are

557
00:27:12.599 --> 00:27:15.799
panels where they're really honest about the sacrifices and struggles

558
00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:18.359
that they've had. I saw a panel early on in

559
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:20.440
my career where someone asked the question of you know,

560
00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:22.599
what do you struggle with most? And I watched three

561
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:24.880
executives in a row say something to the effect of,

562
00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:27.480
you know, I just think I'm the type of person

563
00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:31.039
who has made for this sort of thing. Had just deflected,

564
00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:34.119
didn't want to say any struggle. And finally there was

565
00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:36.079
a woman at the end of the panel and she said,

566
00:27:36.519 --> 00:27:38.720
I'll tell you exactly what I've struggled with. I've struggled

567
00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:40.359
with a lot named a bunch of struggles. And you

568
00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:43.799
could feel the whole audience just like a sigh of relief.

569
00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:46.200
And the questions that got asked after that, the questions

570
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:48.359
that she got from the audience and the q and

571
00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:50.359
A were very different from the questions that the other

572
00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:52.839
people got because people are like, Okay, this is an

573
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:55.920
opportunity for me to hear real information as opposed to

574
00:27:55.960 --> 00:27:58.279
like a canned talk track that I think sometimes we

575
00:27:58.359 --> 00:28:00.880
develop as leaders to be teflon.

576
00:28:01.640 --> 00:28:04.839
Yeah, yeah, okay, so next behavior for generators that we

577
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:07.839
want to develop ladies and gentlemen setting the right tone.

578
00:28:08.599 --> 00:28:09.039
Yeah.

579
00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:12.599
So we are taught and you know, I'm guilty of

580
00:28:12.599 --> 00:28:14.160
this too in my own career.

581
00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:15.640
Matricia and I have talked about this.

582
00:28:16.039 --> 00:28:20.440
We're taught that the measure of productivity and performance and

583
00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:24.440
success is how much time you spend working, and that's

584
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:26.839
sort of beaten into us from an early age that

585
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:29.799
time matters. So we see all these time based behaviors,

586
00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:34.279
people sending emails extremely early, extremely late. I had a

587
00:28:34.359 --> 00:28:36.359
friend who worked for a company where they installed nat

588
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:38.799
pods as part of a wellness initiative, and people used

589
00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:40.720
it to sleep at work to show that, you know,

590
00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:45.279
they were actually never leaving, right. So so there are

591
00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:47.079
you know, these signals that people try to send that

592
00:28:47.079 --> 00:28:50.000
they're putting in the most time. And what these leaders

593
00:28:50.039 --> 00:28:53.200
do is they understand that time is not really the

594
00:28:53.200 --> 00:28:56.720
most important metric. The most important metric is not how

595
00:28:56.799 --> 00:28:59.440
long you're doing something for, but how well you're doing something.

596
00:29:00.039 --> 00:29:02.039
So they focus a lot more on the quality of

597
00:29:02.119 --> 00:29:05.839
experience that employees they're having, which produces a higher quality

598
00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:11.599
level of work. So setting a positive team tone, recognizing

599
00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:14.119
employees for the work that they do, making sure that

600
00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:16.880
people have appropriate levels of balance. These are all things

601
00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:18.920
that come back to you and actually end up saving

602
00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:23.039
the team time. So many leaders tell us that they

603
00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:26.039
don't have time to think about the tone because they're

604
00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:28.720
always putting out fires and things are always going wrong. Well,

605
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:31.240
when you set a good tone, the people on the

606
00:29:31.240 --> 00:29:32.920
team don't feel like they constantly have to come to

607
00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:34.920
you to solve all their problems. They help each other

608
00:29:35.079 --> 00:29:39.839
solve problems, the environment becomes more collaborative, the product quality

609
00:29:39.880 --> 00:29:43.160
goes up. Right, So all of these things are related,

610
00:29:43.599 --> 00:29:48.799
and the mindset shift away from time to tone is

611
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:50.799
something that we heard over and over again.

612
00:29:51.079 --> 00:29:52.079
That these leaders are.

613
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:54.880
Doing really well and then they have more time to

614
00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:57.920
spend thinking about the higher level problems and issues that

615
00:29:57.920 --> 00:29:59.759
they have to solve for instead of constantly running around

616
00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:02.200
school watching everyone's little problems.

617
00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:04.400
This is not quite the same thing that there's a

618
00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:06.799
tangential relationship here. I wrote about this in my book

619
00:30:06.799 --> 00:30:09.480
The Great Vitalization is we need to move away from

620
00:30:09.519 --> 00:30:14.160
management by presenteeism. Can I see you to management by productivity?

621
00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:15.359
What is your output?

622
00:30:15.640 --> 00:30:15.960
Yes?

623
00:30:16.000 --> 00:30:18.119
And it might be that that same output gets done

624
00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:21.160
in six hours instead of nine or ten. But back

625
00:30:21.160 --> 00:30:22.559
to the quality piece of it, and I think that

626
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:25.240
is a crucial, critical next step to get us to

627
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:28.000
focus on that, to get us away from these outdated

628
00:30:28.039 --> 00:30:31.519
practices of how we've been managing employees to really this

629
00:30:31.720 --> 00:30:35.440
new or more productive, conscious elevated way that I think

630
00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:38.079
is really merited for today's times.

631
00:30:38.359 --> 00:30:42.559
Yeah, agreed, and that Deliverable's focused culture is important. The

632
00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:45.160
thing that now we're struggling with is that you know,

633
00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:47.359
once somebody gets something done in six hours that could

634
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:48.960
have taken nine, they're like, oh great, you have an

635
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:51.279
extra three hours, Now do this other thing. Right, So

636
00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:54.240
you also have to realize that and we'll get more

637
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:59.559
into this later. The joy in allowing your employees to

638
00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:01.960
have a life that if they finished their work and

639
00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:04.559
that's not an excuse to pile more on that, you

640
00:31:04.599 --> 00:31:07.799
can actually let them then take that time to replenish

641
00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:10.240
themselves from what was probably a lot of hard, focused

642
00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:12.400
work that they did for that period of time.

643
00:31:13.559 --> 00:31:15.880
And to take into consideration, there's a lot of research

644
00:31:15.880 --> 00:31:18.839
out there that I've been seeing that indicates how traditionally

645
00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:21.119
employees that have been you know, the ones that were

646
00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:23.359
full time in the office, they would spend a lot

647
00:31:23.359 --> 00:31:25.119
of time in the office, but they were also spending

648
00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:28.359
a considerable amount of time planning their vacations at work,

649
00:31:29.079 --> 00:31:32.799
handling their social calls, et cetera at work. So if

650
00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:36.319
we're more we're more expeded and focused and actually what

651
00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:39.440
we're producing, and therefore it seems to take less time.

652
00:31:39.799 --> 00:31:41.759
I think it would be really interesting to see, are

653
00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:45.039
we really comparing apples to oranges or apples to apples here?

654
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:46.960
One hundred percent. Yeah.

655
00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:49.680
If anybody tells you that they can focus hard for

656
00:31:49.720 --> 00:31:53.680
eight straight hours and do that repeatedly day after day,

657
00:31:54.279 --> 00:31:54.920
they are lying.

658
00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:58.440
I agreed. Yeah, we call that fibbing from the town

659
00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:02.440
that I came from. Yeah, okay, let's grab our last break.

660
00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:04.880
I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortez. We've been on the

661
00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:07.880
air with doctor Katina Sawyer and Associate Professor of Management

662
00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:10.480
and Organizations in the Ellers College of Management at the

663
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:13.599
University of Arizona, co founder of Worker Being, and the

664
00:32:13.599 --> 00:32:16.240
co host of the Thriving at Work podcast. We've been

665
00:32:16.359 --> 00:32:19.359
talking about a few of the generator behaviors that you

666
00:32:19.400 --> 00:32:21.559
can develop as a leader to start to create an

667
00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:25.799
organization that's thriving and that promotes wellness. After the break,

668
00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:27.839
we're going to cover off on a few more. We'll

669
00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:28.440
be right back.

670
00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:47.079
Doctor Elise Cortez is a management consultant specializing in meaning

671
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:50.960
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies

672
00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:54.319
visioneer for a greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose

673
00:32:54.359 --> 00:32:58.720
inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,

674
00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:01.839
and commitment within the world. To learn more or to

675
00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:04.920
invite Elise to speak to your organization, please visit her

676
00:33:05.000 --> 00:33:08.240
at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

677
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:17.039
your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose

678
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:20.400
with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or

679
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:23.240
to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to

680
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:28.680
Alise A. Li Se at eliscortes dot com. Now back

681
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:30.079
to working on Purpose.

682
00:33:35.799 --> 00:33:38.079
Thanksteresting with us, and welcome back to working on Purpose.

683
00:33:38.119 --> 00:33:40.559
I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes. I mentioned in the

684
00:33:40.640 --> 00:33:42.559
last break that my last book came out at the

685
00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:45.279
Great Revitalization. What I did for you is I created

686
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:48.279
a very simple three page organizational assessment that will help

687
00:33:48.319 --> 00:33:51.160
you to determine the extent to which your current culture

688
00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:54.720
is meeting the needs of today's discerning workforce. It's three pages.

689
00:33:54.759 --> 00:33:58.000
You can find it at gustodeshnow dot com if you

690
00:33:58.039 --> 00:34:00.400
are just joining us. My guest is doctor Katina Sawyer,

691
00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:03.079
co author of Leading for Wellness, How to create a

692
00:34:03.119 --> 00:34:07.079
team culture where everyone thrives. So let's talk about this another.

693
00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:08.920
We're going to continue on and get through as many

694
00:34:08.920 --> 00:34:11.880
of these generator behaders as we can. I love this

695
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:15.719
next one. It's just so crisp, crisp or swiftly becoming

696
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:16.519
a confidant.

697
00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:21.440
Yes, yeah, So in this portion of the book, we

698
00:34:21.480 --> 00:34:25.880
talk about the fact that leaders who are quite good

699
00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:29.880
at building strong relationships focus on them from the beginning

700
00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:32.559
and invest the time.

701
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:34.760
And energy upfront in those relationships.

702
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:36.599
Doesn't mean that you can't go backwards if you haven't

703
00:34:36.599 --> 00:34:39.280
done this already with other people, but as you onboard

704
00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:42.039
new people, thinking about how you invest the time upfront

705
00:34:42.039 --> 00:34:44.480
to really quickly build a strong connection. And so we

706
00:34:44.519 --> 00:34:47.800
came with this idea of swift, and so swift is

707
00:34:47.800 --> 00:34:51.760
all about setting aside time to dedicate a time to

708
00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:55.639
really have meetings with employees where you don't talk about work,

709
00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:57.840
you talk about things that are important to them outside

710
00:34:57.840 --> 00:35:00.960
of life. You're creating a welcoming environment where they feel

711
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:01.960
comfortable to speak with you.

712
00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:04.039
So you're not sitting behind the desk being all rigid.

713
00:35:05.039 --> 00:35:08.400
You're inquiring about things that matter to them, asking a

714
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:10.679
lot of questions so you can learn more about who

715
00:35:10.719 --> 00:35:12.559
they are as people and what matters to them and

716
00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:13.480
what motivates them.

717
00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:15.800
And then you're following up on the things that you learn.

718
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:18.599
You're bringing them back up in conversation, asking them about

719
00:35:18.800 --> 00:35:21.280
things that they mentioned. So if they mentioned that, and

720
00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:23.639
their children are extremely important to them, and there are

721
00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:27.039
certain activities, you know, maybe their son is excellent at violin.

722
00:35:27.400 --> 00:35:28.840
You know, the next time you see that.

723
00:35:28.760 --> 00:35:30.400
Person saying, you know, how are things going with the

724
00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:33.119
violin with your son? And you know, bringing up things

725
00:35:33.119 --> 00:35:34.880
that you share in common. Little things like that go

726
00:35:34.960 --> 00:35:38.519
a long way. And then finally reflecting, taking time to

727
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:41.039
think about okay, based on everything that I know about

728
00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:42.960
the people on my team, how can I make my

729
00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:46.400
leadership even better? How can I facilitate creating a motivating

730
00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:49.480
environment or a more connected environment given the information that

731
00:35:49.480 --> 00:35:52.840
I've garnered through these swift meetings.

732
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:55.840
I really embrace that too. Of course, there's nothing in

733
00:35:55.840 --> 00:35:58.440
your book that I don't embrace. But you know, remember

734
00:35:58.519 --> 00:36:01.280
years I've taught over the years life so many supervisors

735
00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:03.679
first time that they've managed people, then managers and leaders

736
00:36:03.719 --> 00:36:05.960
and senior leaders. And one of the things I've always

737
00:36:05.960 --> 00:36:07.840
said over the years is just how critical it is

738
00:36:07.880 --> 00:36:11.360
to develop the capacity to really go looking for and

739
00:36:11.480 --> 00:36:15.760
seeing and celebrating your people. There's something so beautiful and

740
00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:18.880
magical when people feel seen, really seen for who they

741
00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:22.000
are and celebrated for it. Not just I tolerate you,

742
00:36:22.360 --> 00:36:25.679
I see you, but you're amazing, you know, I see

743
00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:28.119
how special in the unique human that you are walking

744
00:36:28.119 --> 00:36:28.599
the planet.

745
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:30.360
One hundred percent agree.

746
00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:32.440
Yeah, And you can't really celebrate those things if you

747
00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:35.440
don't know what they are. So asking those kinds of

748
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:37.280
questions can help you get that information.

749
00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:39.599
Yeah, I don't think it counts that we can celebrate.

750
00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:45.119
Oh look, you're breathing that's so cool, gat Yeah, agreed. Okay,

751
00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:47.320
this next one is really really near and dear to

752
00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:50.639
my heart, Casina, be elastic. Your way isn't always right.

753
00:36:50.719 --> 00:36:53.199
And the reason I want to start with their situate

754
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:55.840
that that way is, I know how easy it is

755
00:36:56.079 --> 00:36:59.280
when you're wet. This works really great for me, wonderful.

756
00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:01.960
Not the only meat in the room, especially not on

757
00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:04.239
your full team. So if you could expand on this

758
00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:06.280
generator behavior, be elastic.

759
00:37:07.000 --> 00:37:07.639
Yeah.

760
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:10.599
I think a lot of times, particularly for leaders, we

761
00:37:10.719 --> 00:37:13.079
think that what got us to this position is going

762
00:37:13.159 --> 00:37:15.599
to be exactly what gets other people to this position.

763
00:37:16.000 --> 00:37:18.239
And the reality is that different people work in different

764
00:37:18.239 --> 00:37:21.199
ways and both can be where both of your ways

765
00:37:21.239 --> 00:37:23.440
if you're thinking about employee who you're mentoring, can be

766
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:26.960
equally effective while looking quite different. And we see a

767
00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:29.360
lot of we saw a lot in the extinguisher camp

768
00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:31.679
of leaders being like, do it this way, you need

769
00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:33.320
to do it this way. I worked with someone who

770
00:37:33.760 --> 00:37:36.199
an interview question that they used to ask was you know,

771
00:37:36.239 --> 00:37:38.960
if you found out that a very successful person structured their.

772
00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:42.119
Day this way, what would you do with that information?

773
00:37:42.199 --> 00:37:44.079
And if you gave the answer in the interview anything

774
00:37:44.079 --> 00:37:46.800
other than I would also structure my day exactly that way.

775
00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:49.880
That was considered a wrong answer in the interview. That's

776
00:37:49.880 --> 00:37:52.159
the sort of thing that we're talking about here. There's

777
00:37:52.239 --> 00:37:54.840
not one way to success, and it's great for you

778
00:37:54.920 --> 00:37:58.039
to share what's helped you get to be where you are,

779
00:37:58.280 --> 00:38:00.519
and maybe that will resonate with other people, But the

780
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:02.920
expectation that people have to do it exactly the way

781
00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:05.079
that you've done it is really putting people in a

782
00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:07.920
box that's not aligning with their personal preferences and what's

783
00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:09.519
going to make them most successful.

784
00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:14.519
One hundred percent agree. Now related to that, this is

785
00:38:14.639 --> 00:38:17.119
really fresh for me. I guess I knew this intuitively,

786
00:38:17.159 --> 00:38:20.039
but I've never seen anybody distinguish it this way. You

787
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:24.360
describe how people approach work either as segmenters or integrators

788
00:38:24.360 --> 00:38:26.400
in terms of how they fit work in life together.

789
00:38:27.199 --> 00:38:31.400
Yeah, So this is a term that came from the

790
00:38:31.480 --> 00:38:35.400
research and not from our research from other folks with

791
00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:37.920
research that we saw coming up again and again in

792
00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:40.960
our research that seemed to matter for how generators were

793
00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:45.079
managing their employees. So integrators are folks who like to

794
00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:48.679
intersperse work in life activities across the course of the

795
00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:52.079
day that means that their workday is usually longer because

796
00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:53.800
they're taking time out.

797
00:38:53.639 --> 00:38:55.679
In the middle of the day to do life activities,

798
00:38:56.360 --> 00:38:58.519
and they don't find any.

799
00:39:00.199 --> 00:39:03.480
Hindrance in switching back and forth between life and work

800
00:39:03.519 --> 00:39:04.800
tests They like it that way.

801
00:39:05.480 --> 00:39:06.599
Segmentors are different.

802
00:39:06.760 --> 00:39:09.840
Segmentors are people who say, I'm starting my work day

803
00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:13.000
at whatever time, and my work day ends at this time,

804
00:39:13.320 --> 00:39:15.639
and interruptions really throw them. They like to be in

805
00:39:15.719 --> 00:39:18.480
one head space and then shift to another headspace, so

806
00:39:18.599 --> 00:39:23.320
they're much more bothered by sick person in their household

807
00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:28.519
who keeps interrupting them during work time, or a boss

808
00:39:28.519 --> 00:39:32.119
who calls them outside of work hours right that throws

809
00:39:32.119 --> 00:39:36.480
them off much more. Neither of these is better or

810
00:39:36.519 --> 00:39:38.920
worse than the other. They both can be equally productive.

811
00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:41.639
The problem is that people often expect that the way

812
00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:43.960
they would do things is the way that other people

813
00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:46.480
should do things. So an integrator who you know has

814
00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:50.159
spent their day sprinkling in other life activities and then

815
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:52.320
reaches out to a coworker on their team at six

816
00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:54.280
pm who's a segmentor and says, hey, can we talk

817
00:39:54.320 --> 00:39:56.679
for a few minutes is going to get annoyed when

818
00:39:56.679 --> 00:39:58.519
that person says no, I'm not available, what we can

819
00:39:58.519 --> 00:40:01.559
talk tomorrow morning, right, thinking that they're not maybe as

820
00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:04.239
dedicated or on on the job. The reality is that

821
00:40:04.280 --> 00:40:06.320
person may have put in more time during the day

822
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:08.559
than that person did, and they're just being good about

823
00:40:08.559 --> 00:40:12.400
setting their boundaries. So a first step or an entry

824
00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:16.599
point into understanding these two ways of operating is to

825
00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:18.599
ask the question, to get a sense of who on

826
00:40:18.679 --> 00:40:21.400
your team operates this way, and then to recognize that

827
00:40:21.440 --> 00:40:23.159
your way is not the best way. So the same

828
00:40:23.199 --> 00:40:26.519
idea of being elastic, right, just because you're an integrator,

829
00:40:26.079 --> 00:40:28.519
segmentor doesn't mean everybody else has to be.

830
00:40:29.960 --> 00:40:31.760
Yeah, I think it's helpful, and I know that I've

831
00:40:31.960 --> 00:40:34.079
I've heard many people have been a little bit surprised

832
00:40:34.119 --> 00:40:36.840
the simple idea of you know, what's the golden world

833
00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:39.840
tretose as you would like to be treated. Except that's

834
00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:42.239
not good enough. You need the platinum rule, which is,

835
00:40:42.320 --> 00:40:45.159
you know, treat others as they wish to be treated.

836
00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:48.800
That's another level of understanding and engagement, so so so

837
00:40:48.840 --> 00:40:51.199
important not to assume just because it works for you,

838
00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:53.679
that you know that will work for them. And I'm

839
00:40:53.679 --> 00:40:57.239
an I'm an integrator, so I can appreciate that, and

840
00:40:57.599 --> 00:41:00.760
I part of my team that are mentors, and I

841
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:03.079
totally appreciate that and apply that. But I really liked

842
00:41:03.079 --> 00:41:06.000
how crisp it is that you've given me this terminology

843
00:41:06.039 --> 00:41:08.159
to be able to distinguish that. It's just gorgeous.

844
00:41:08.519 --> 00:41:09.880
Thank you, You're welcome.

845
00:41:10.000 --> 00:41:12.119
So you mentioned boundaries before, and this next one I

846
00:41:12.159 --> 00:41:15.440
thought was really powerful when it comes to really cultivating

847
00:41:15.440 --> 00:41:20.119
wellness in an organization. The idea of becoming a boundary bouncer.

848
00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:25.320
Yeah, So we were thinking about what's the right imagery

849
00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:28.039
for this, and one of the things that kept coming

850
00:41:28.119 --> 00:41:30.480
up for us was this idea of a bouncer at

851
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:34.280
a club and there's a velvet rope and you have said,

852
00:41:34.360 --> 00:41:36.800
you know, this is my boundary is this is my

853
00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:41.400
non negotiable. I won't take a work call during my

854
00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:44.599
daughter's soccer practice, right like, I want to be really

855
00:41:44.599 --> 00:41:47.679
present for that. And unfortunately, what we see in a

856
00:41:47.719 --> 00:41:50.920
lot of the stories about extinguishers is that the extinguisher

857
00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:53.679
will say, oh, yeah, no, totally, that makes sense, and

858
00:41:53.719 --> 00:41:56.239
then they'll text or call during that time period and

859
00:41:56.280 --> 00:41:58.559
say I know that you you know said that you

860
00:41:58.599 --> 00:42:00.280
don't like to take calls right now, but you know

861
00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:01.960
it's just going to take a few minutes, or you

862
00:42:01.960 --> 00:42:05.519
know they're they're constantly breaking these boundaries that employees are

863
00:42:05.559 --> 00:42:10.360
asking them to uphold. And so we like the vision

864
00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:15.039
of thinking of yourself standing as a leader with this

865
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:18.639
velvet rope and your employees are back there and you're

866
00:42:18.679 --> 00:42:21.000
trying to figure out, okay, who gets.

867
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:21.719
Let through right?

868
00:42:21.760 --> 00:42:24.159
Who are we going to say is okay to break

869
00:42:24.159 --> 00:42:28.679
these boundaries and being very judicious about that. So let's

870
00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:33.079
say you feel better in your wellness. I know, for me,

871
00:42:33.360 --> 00:42:35.239
my eyes start to hurt if I stare at a

872
00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:37.800
screen for too long, So taking a little screen break

873
00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:40.199
is very helpful for me in being able to continue

874
00:42:40.239 --> 00:42:41.440
to be productive in my day.

875
00:42:41.559 --> 00:42:44.599
So let's say someone has that and they say, you know, I.

876
00:42:44.559 --> 00:42:48.079
Would love to, you know, be able to get away

877
00:42:48.119 --> 00:42:50.360
from the computer and take a walk every day from

878
00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:52.559
twelve to twelve thirty. And if I could hold that

879
00:42:52.639 --> 00:42:54.880
time sacred on my calendar, it'll make me much more

880
00:42:54.880 --> 00:43:00.280
productive later in the afternoon. The leader would make sure

881
00:43:00.519 --> 00:43:03.400
that other people on the team respect that boundary. If

882
00:43:03.440 --> 00:43:06.360
there's a non urgent or even you know, an urgent

883
00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:08.239
but could be done at a different time that day

884
00:43:08.719 --> 00:43:10.239
meeting that comes across their desk that.

885
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:11.199
That employee needs to be in.

886
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:13.880
They would make sure that people are not trampling over

887
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:17.000
that or encourage the employee to hold that time. However,

888
00:43:17.559 --> 00:43:20.679
let's say there's a client call that's happening and the

889
00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:24.360
only time the client can make it is noon on Thursday,

890
00:43:24.480 --> 00:43:25.960
and so for this one time, you might have to

891
00:43:25.960 --> 00:43:28.119
take your walk at one instead of noon. The leader

892
00:43:28.199 --> 00:43:31.599
might say, okay, velvet rope for this one instance. That

893
00:43:31.639 --> 00:43:34.679
can't repeat over and over again, right, but being really

894
00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:39.280
clear about making sure that the default is upholding the boundary.

895
00:43:39.519 --> 00:43:41.000
You're not really allowed in here.

896
00:43:41.039 --> 00:43:44.039
This is a VIP area as opposed to the default

897
00:43:44.119 --> 00:43:46.480
being like the velvet ropes open and just run on in.

898
00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:49.400
Yeah. I think that's really really powerful when when people

899
00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:52.719
feel like the leaders protect and them really cares about

900
00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:55.960
their well being, their wellness, and they recognize, you know,

901
00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:58.159
when somebody from another department calls and says, hey, you know,

902
00:43:58.159 --> 00:44:00.480
I really needed to get this report up. Actually know,

903
00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:03.400
they don't let is there I think, is there room

904
00:44:03.440 --> 00:44:05.159
for us? It gets to you tomorrow kind of thing,

905
00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:07.480
exactly right, And I just I think that's just such

906
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:13.039
a really crisp, fresh perspective, Katina, just really good stuff. Thanks, Yeah,

907
00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:16.159
good stuff. Okay, now let's talk about the next behavior

908
00:44:16.239 --> 00:44:19.159
generator behavior the power of person centered planning.

909
00:44:20.320 --> 00:44:23.360
Yeah, so this is sort of at the heart of

910
00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:26.079
a lot of things that we talk about in the book,

911
00:44:26.079 --> 00:44:28.639
but we put it at the end because it's one

912
00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:31.320
of the meteor concepts and you kind of need to

913
00:44:31.400 --> 00:44:33.440
work up some of the other skills to be able

914
00:44:33.440 --> 00:44:36.320
to engage in this well. But the idea is that

915
00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:40.239
you're tailoring your approach to the individual employees who are

916
00:44:40.239 --> 00:44:44.239
on your team and trying to avoid blanket solutions. And

917
00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:47.239
what this means is that you're The idea of person

918
00:44:47.280 --> 00:44:52.559
centered planning is a Roseerian idea from the psychology literature,

919
00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:56.519
where you know, it's been used in therapy, where you're

920
00:44:56.639 --> 00:45:01.119
listening to someone with non judgmental, positive regard about what

921
00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:04.400
is important to them, what they'll need to feel in balance,

922
00:45:04.840 --> 00:45:07.960
and you're using these skills of you know, recognizing that

923
00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:10.119
your away is not always the way and building these

924
00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:14.719
swift connections in order to really facilitate a positive process.

925
00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:18.159
But the idea is that the employee feels comfortable sharing

926
00:45:18.199 --> 00:45:20.599
with you, things that are getting in their way of

927
00:45:20.599 --> 00:45:23.039
being productive at work, things that would be really helpful

928
00:45:23.079 --> 00:45:25.079
for them to be productive at work, things that would

929
00:45:25.079 --> 00:45:27.360
be helpful for them in their lives, right to feel

930
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:30.199
more whole and happy at human beings, and that you're

931
00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:34.000
really listening to and gathering that information and using that

932
00:45:34.079 --> 00:45:37.079
information kind of like a map of how to support

933
00:45:37.079 --> 00:45:39.760
that employee, and then looking across the employees who you

934
00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:42.639
support and understanding what can you do to create an

935
00:45:42.679 --> 00:45:45.559
environment where they're all most likely to thrive. And that

936
00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:48.280
might mean meeting people where they are with certain things,

937
00:45:48.519 --> 00:45:50.920
and that might also mean, like, hey, win for me.

938
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:53.159
Everybody said that they would love for us to take

939
00:45:53.519 --> 00:45:56.920
a fifteen minute mindfulness break at three pm.

940
00:45:56.719 --> 00:45:58.119
Every day, So we're going to try to do that,

941
00:45:58.280 --> 00:45:58.480
you know.

942
00:45:59.159 --> 00:46:02.000
So there are certain things that might work for everybody,

943
00:46:02.039 --> 00:46:03.639
and there are certain things that might work only for

944
00:46:03.719 --> 00:46:04.920
one person or two people.

945
00:46:05.280 --> 00:46:06.159
So trying to.

946
00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:11.079
Be as much as possible. No world is perfect and

947
00:46:11.159 --> 00:46:13.239
nobody is going to get every single one of their

948
00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:16.159
needs checked off right, But to the extent that you can,

949
00:46:16.360 --> 00:46:18.679
trying to tailor your approach to your team can be

950
00:46:18.719 --> 00:46:19.400
really helpful.

951
00:46:21.400 --> 00:46:23.679
And again that takes you know that time that we're

952
00:46:23.719 --> 00:46:26.239
just focusing on the person, the relationship development as we

953
00:46:26.239 --> 00:46:28.199
talked about before, all those things that are so important,

954
00:46:28.480 --> 00:46:30.719
and what I want to emphasize here, ladies and gentlemen,

955
00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:34.440
is that the more you incorporate these behaviors into yourself

956
00:46:34.480 --> 00:46:36.840
as a as a as a leader, the more all

957
00:46:36.960 --> 00:46:40.039
your relationships across your life are going to improve. Everybody,

958
00:46:40.079 --> 00:46:41.800
everything is going to get better when you when you

959
00:46:41.880 --> 00:46:44.519
incorporate this this across your life. So it's just beautiful,

960
00:46:44.559 --> 00:46:48.239
goes that ripple effect we were talking about before. So

961
00:46:48.679 --> 00:46:50.199
we're coming to the end of the show, and you

962
00:46:50.239 --> 00:46:52.800
did have a you have a chapter here on you know,

963
00:46:53.159 --> 00:46:56.719
leaders embracing the idea of eliminating mental health stigma, which

964
00:46:56.800 --> 00:46:58.159
we don't have time to go into, but I want

965
00:46:58.159 --> 00:46:59.920
to situate that is also an important thing that they

966
00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:01.760
got to take a stand for that to really make

967
00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:04.840
this work well. And then also, you know, as you

968
00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:08.400
incorporate and start to embrace these behaviors, especially in an

969
00:47:08.480 --> 00:47:11.320
organization that doesn't naturally have them, you're going to get

970
00:47:11.320 --> 00:47:13.400
back last and you're going to get pushed back. So

971
00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:17.360
Katina and Patricia have some great stuff in there in

972
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:19.440
their book, and I'm sure on their podcast and in

973
00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:22.440
their consulting to help you with that navigate those waters.

974
00:47:22.480 --> 00:47:24.559
So I just want to situate that we want to

975
00:47:24.639 --> 00:47:27.360
round this up as we recognize that you becoming this

976
00:47:27.480 --> 00:47:30.280
human being that we're talking about encouraging you to become,

977
00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:33.400
you will face resistance from those who don't understand it

978
00:47:33.440 --> 00:47:35.039
and who haven't quite gotten there yet.

979
00:47:35.599 --> 00:47:40.519
Absolutely, yeah, and we do provide some strategies for navigating

980
00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:43.679
what if you're housed in a toxic work culture, or

981
00:47:43.719 --> 00:47:46.840
what if you don't have a lot of champions that

982
00:47:47.119 --> 00:47:49.239
think that this is a good idea, or what if

983
00:47:49.239 --> 00:47:53.519
you're getting burntout trying to, you know, tailor these solutions

984
00:47:53.519 --> 00:47:55.639
to everybody on the team and you're feeling like it's

985
00:47:55.639 --> 00:47:56.840
taking a lot of your time and energy.

986
00:47:56.920 --> 00:47:58.840
How can you streamline things and how can you replenish

987
00:47:58.880 --> 00:47:59.599
your own energy?

988
00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:04.480
It's greatness. Well, as you can see, I'm a fan.

989
00:48:04.719 --> 00:48:07.360
I'm certainly happy to evangelize this and I'm so happy

990
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:09.199
to meet you, Katina. I'm so grateful that this all

991
00:48:09.239 --> 00:48:10.480
worked out that you and I got to meet us.

992
00:48:10.480 --> 00:48:13.079
So I look forward to meeting Patricia as well. Yes,

993
00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:15.239
I think you probably know by now that this show

994
00:48:15.320 --> 00:48:17.719
is listened to, why people around the world who really

995
00:48:17.760 --> 00:48:21.480
are either trying to cultivate their own leadership, acumen, prowess,

996
00:48:21.880 --> 00:48:25.159
or they're trying to learn how to become better in

997
00:48:25.199 --> 00:48:27.519
their own career, or maybe even their leaders that are

998
00:48:27.519 --> 00:48:30.599
trying to create those organizations that better the world. What

999
00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:31.639
would you like to leave them with?

1000
00:48:32.320 --> 00:48:35.400
Yeah, I think that if we could summarize things in

1001
00:48:35.440 --> 00:48:38.280
one sentence, it would be that wellness is not a

1002
00:48:38.320 --> 00:48:41.599
program or a band aid. Wellness is about the day

1003
00:48:41.639 --> 00:48:44.519
to day experiences that your employees have. So if you

1004
00:48:44.599 --> 00:48:48.960
really think about how to cultivate positive and uplifting and

1005
00:48:49.039 --> 00:48:52.679
supportive day to day experiences that match people's wellness needs,

1006
00:48:52.920 --> 00:48:55.480
you're going to do a lot better than throwing spaghetti

1007
00:48:55.480 --> 00:48:57.639
at the wall with a wellness budget and putting a

1008
00:48:57.639 --> 00:48:59.960
bunch of programs in place that you're not sure why

1009
00:49:00.000 --> 00:49:00.679
it's going to stick.

1010
00:49:01.760 --> 00:49:05.360
Beautiful way to finish, Katina not surprised, all right, So listener,

1011
00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:07.039
thank you so much for being on Katina.

1012
00:49:07.079 --> 00:49:08.079
It's just real life.

1013
00:49:08.159 --> 00:49:10.360
It's a great, wonderful surprise that we that I got

1014
00:49:10.360 --> 00:49:10.920
to talk to you.

1015
00:49:11.320 --> 00:49:12.440
Awesome, all right.

1016
00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:14.119
So listeners and viewers, you are going to want to

1017
00:49:14.199 --> 00:49:16.719
learn more about Katina Sawyer and also her co author,

1018
00:49:16.719 --> 00:49:20.639
doctor Patricia Grayberick, their podcast The work they do at

1019
00:49:20.639 --> 00:49:24.599
worker Being, So start by visiting their website. It's worker being.

1020
00:49:24.679 --> 00:49:26.079
Let me spell it for you because it's a little

1021
00:49:26.079 --> 00:49:29.480
bit of a different spelling on both. Worker is w

1022
00:49:29.639 --> 00:49:33.599
O r k R no E being b e I

1023
00:49:33.880 --> 00:49:37.480
G two to to b e ing dot com so

1024
00:49:37.559 --> 00:49:40.519
workerbeing dot com. Last week, if you missed the live show,

1025
00:49:40.519 --> 00:49:42.679
you can always catch a via recorded podcast. We were

1026
00:49:42.719 --> 00:49:45.159
on air with Taniel Miller talking about her book The

1027
00:49:45.159 --> 00:49:48.880
Flourishing Effect, Unlocking Employee thriving and high Performance as your

1028
00:49:48.920 --> 00:49:52.880
competitive Advantage. It was an incredibly educational and inspiring conversation.

1029
00:49:53.119 --> 00:49:55.559
One important thing I took from more conversation is that

1030
00:49:55.960 --> 00:49:59.119
in a time when seventy percent of the workforce is disengaged,

1031
00:49:59.519 --> 00:50:01.920
to neil help us understand that people don't choose to

1032
00:50:01.920 --> 00:50:05.000
disengage from work, deciding to wake up and spend most

1033
00:50:05.039 --> 00:50:07.719
of their day in a state of boredom, frustration and anxiety,

1034
00:50:07.760 --> 00:50:12.480
stress and alienation just to earn a paycheck. Rather, disengagement

1035
00:50:12.559 --> 00:50:16.320
is a coping mechanism any healthy human would employ to

1036
00:50:16.360 --> 00:50:19.639
avoid the cognitive dissonance or mental discomfort of having to

1037
00:50:19.719 --> 00:50:23.800
function in an environment where they find themselves unsafe, stifled,

1038
00:50:24.079 --> 00:50:27.800
or in an otherwise warped experience of reality. In other words,

1039
00:50:27.840 --> 00:50:30.119
there is so much we can do to create environments

1040
00:50:30.159 --> 00:50:32.679
and work experiences to help people thrive at work that

1041
00:50:32.719 --> 00:50:36.800
are not present today in most workplaces. Next, we will

1042
00:50:36.800 --> 00:50:41.000
be on air with Robert Bordoni and Joel Salinez talking

1043
00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:46.039
about their powerful new book, Conflict Resilience, Negotiating disagreement without

1044
00:50:46.039 --> 00:50:48.760
giving up or giving in a toolkit for coming together

1045
00:50:48.840 --> 00:50:51.599
in a conflicted world. See you then, and remember work

1046
00:50:51.639 --> 00:50:53.679
as one of the best adventures and means of realizing

1047
00:50:53.719 --> 00:50:56.280
our potential and making the impact we crave and can

1048
00:50:56.360 --> 00:50:58.039
give us the opportunity to do business in a way

1049
00:50:58.119 --> 00:51:00.719
that betters the world. So let's Work on Purpose.

1050
00:51:03.880 --> 00:51:06.519
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to

1051
00:51:06.559 --> 00:51:10.199
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,

1052
00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:13.639
each week on W four CY. Together, we'll create a

1053
00:51:13.679 --> 00:51:18.320
world where business operates conscientiously, leadership inspires and passion performance,

1054
00:51:18.400 --> 00:51:21.159
and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning

1055
00:51:21.199 --> 00:51:25.000
and purpose they crave. See you there, let's work on purpose.