March 11, 2025

The Flourishing Effect: How Thriving Employees Drive Competitive Advantage

The Flourishing Effect: How Thriving Employees Drive Competitive Advantage

The pandemic transformed work forever, yet many leaders still cling to outdated practices that stifle autonomy, growth, and meaning—killing engagement and squashing performance. But what if thriving employees were the key to unlocking next-level...

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The pandemic transformed work forever, yet many leaders still cling to outdated practices that stifle autonomy, growth, and meaning—killing engagement and squashing performance. But what if thriving employees were the key to unlocking next-level success? In this episode, Tonille Miller, author of The Flourishing Effect, reveals how organizations can harness human potential, create high-performance cultures, and turn flourishing into a true competitive advantage.

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The topics and opinions express in the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests and not

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What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the

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answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose

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at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their

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lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization

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that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their

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highest potential. Business can be such a force for good

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in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide

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guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we

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all want Working on Purpose. Now, here's your host, doctor

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Elise Cortez.

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Welcome back to the Working on Purpose program, which has

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been brought to with passion and pride since February of

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twenty fifteen. Thanks Tondian this week. Great to have you.

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I'm your host, doctor Elise corre Test. If we've not

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met before and you don't know me, I'm an organizational

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psychologist to management consultant, lebal therapist, speaker and author. My

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team and I at Gusta Now help companies to enliven

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and fortify their operations by building a dynamic, high performance

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culture and inspirational leadership activated by meaning and purpose. Did

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you know that inspired employees outperform their satisfied peers by

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a factor of two point twenty five two one. In

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other words, inspiration is good for the bottom line. You

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can learn more about us and how we can work

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together at gusto dashnow dot com or my personal site

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at leascore test dot com. Now getting today's program we

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have with us to Neil Miller a seasoned executive management

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consultant and organizational psychologist specializing in transformation, organizational effectiveness, and

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human performance. She is passionate about creating thriving ecosystems where

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businesses succeed because people are empowered to do their best

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work of lives. She's the author of the Flourishing Effect

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unlocking employee thriving as your competitive Advantage, which is a

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playbook for cultivating an environment where engagement, agility, and high

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performance thrive. We'll be talking about various aspects from her book,

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including learning from history to create companies and work experiences

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that inspire rather than repel, the disconnect from the perspective

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of those in the workforce, and what work feels like

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for most people, and how companies and leaders can rise

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to meet the needs of today's evolved workforce while succeeding mightily.

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She judges us from New York to Neil, Welcome to

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Working on Purpose.

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Thank you for having me.

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It's great to have you. As I told you, we

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are really quite quite aligned. And I loved every single

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last word of your book. So excited to help bring

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this to our listeners and viewers. First, I got to

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start by saying, I just so your introduction to Neil

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is one of the best introductions I've ever read in

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a book. I was so excited to inspire by it.

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So let's let this secret into our listeners and viewers

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as well. You open with a fascinating historical account of

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the Black Plague and the Italian Renaissance, and then you

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situate it's parallel in our COVID pandemic and the promise

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of today's world of work. So let's start there.

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Yes, thank you so much, first of all for having me.

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I've been excited about this since we first chatted. So

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the thing is is, I'm always listening to podcasts like

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this one, like others, like a lot of us are.

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And when I was writing the book, I was listening

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to this podcast about the Renaissance, and I noticed the

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parallels right away between the society at that point in

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time emerging from the Black Plague in our recent pandemic,

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and the more that I dove in I started to

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research it, and I just was seeing all these again,

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all these parallels and understanding that what was taking place

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at that time across the world. It seemed like there

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were so many similarities and which really led to an

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inspiring result. Right, So the Renaissance obviously so much talent,

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so much innovation, and things happened during that time, and

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I thought, gosh, what a really great interesting message that

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we can tie the parallels to what they did at

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the end of the plague before the Renaissance, and we

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can tie those parallels to maybe give us some hope

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in this moment right when we're emerging from the pandemic

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when I wrote this about two years ago, So in

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many ways, this moment is similar as I talk about

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in the book in the sense that you know, at

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that time, society had really outgrown those old institutions, old beliefs,

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old ways of being, yet it was really stuck in

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kind of this this moment, this morass right from the

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Black Plague, which had halted commerce and travel and learning

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and innovation. So it was kind of like in this

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stuck point, kind of like in that liminal stage, right

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And I feel like right when we came out of

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the pandemic when I wrote this, it's like we kind

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of were in a similar point in time where it's like, well,

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we're definitely not in Kansas anymore, but we don't know

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where we're going to be next. And so I kind

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of wanted to pull these parallels and then say, hey,

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by the way, this has happened before, let's take some

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lessons from the past. And I thought it was great

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to pull on what the Medici family did at that

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point in time when they rose to power, because they

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did that through really anticipating and fostering that environment that nurtured,

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empowered and inspired those great talent of the Renaissance. So

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I thought, wow, well that's pretty cool. Why don't we

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apply that to our modern environment? Right, these are some

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things that leaders can actually do. And as I really

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research like some of the things that they did, that gosh,

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that's a lot of what I'm talking about in this book.

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It's a lot of that meeting the human needs aspects.

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So that's really where I got.

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That beautiful toil, great way to open. I was so

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inspired by that story, and I love when we can

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go back in history and learn from that. And I

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think that is a very powerful opening for our listeners

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and viewers anyone who reads your book, because when you

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see what happened from that, I think that that opens something.

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It helps us maybe get unstuck from how we're clinging

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to our old ways of doing things and see possibilities

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that are really, really grand. And that's what I want too. Yeah, Okay,

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so I want to talk a little bit about just

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really how it is that you are on this journey yourself.

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Why aren't you in accounting or architecture. You've chosen this

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particular path, so why this background, Why this kind of

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work and why this journey you're taking us on.

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Yeah, I mean, like a lot of folks, I grew

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up with a single parent, and for the most part,

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basically grew up a single mom, and she juggled, you know,

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for the most of my life, two to three jobs

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at a time to make ends meet. And so watching

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that as a little girl and really observing how much

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time and energy that took away from her and from

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me as a child and my brother, basically I kind

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of just I didn't like it, and I was like,

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that just seems weird, that doesn't seem how it should be.

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And you know, ever since that time, I kind of

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became acutely aware of how work had dominated most people's lives,

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not just hers, but most people, no matter what type

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of work it was, and also how rare it was

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that somebody would say, Wow, I love my job. I

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love what I'm doing. And so I kind of always

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had that in the back of my mind growing up.

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And then I thought, there's got to be a way

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to fix this, right, because work takes so much time, energy, lifeblood,

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et cetera, away from all of us. And so I

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kind of started thinking, well, this is a really big

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problem to solve. We all, for the most part, have

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to work. So I started out, you know, as a researcher,

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as a management consultant and iopsychologists and coach for these

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companies trying to kind of figure out like what is

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it that makes work so terrible in many cases? Right?

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Like why? Why is it bad when it's bad? And

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why is it good when it's good? And so I

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always was kind of leading with that and picking up

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pieces of the puzzle as I went along of like,

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you know, employee well being and employee engagement and leadership

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and change management, all these different things that I see

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as really kind of different pieces of the puzzle or

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the system and how they work together and when they work,

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they work, and they do some amazing things that I

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know we're going to talk about and when they don't work,

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they don't work, and we're going to talk about those

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things as well. And picking up those pieces as I

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went along, I decide, Wow, this is really fascinating, and

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a lot of people don't get it. Like we all

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know that we have our gripes about work or somebody's

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like the lucky person and I love my job, but

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we don't really know why that is, and so I

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really wanted to dig into that in this book.

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I love it very similar. I grew up on a

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farm with farmers who I was raised with the idea

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that work as a noble thing. It's the way that

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we go through life. It is what we do in

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service of our life. It's not something we had to

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slog through. And two, I noticed that's part of my

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research too. Is part of the reason I started hosting

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the show is I wanted people to know that people

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could actually really be passionate about what they do for work.

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And that's how it started ten years ago anyway. So

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such such strong parallels to Neil. So you know you

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and I know this because we're researching. We talk about this,

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but it's so hard for people to understand how much

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the ways of working for so many people aren't working.

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And you have some very interesting stats in the book

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that I think even if we just share a few

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of those, it will help our listeners and viewers understand

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the gravity of the problem. Can you share a few

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of them?

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Yeah? Absolutely. So we get into a lot of research

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in this book because just like you, you got to ground

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it in the research. And I think It's helpful too,

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because when you read it, if people are HR practitioners

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are managers, it's always helpful to ground whatever you're trying

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to do in your organization or tell your leader you

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should do grounded in the data. We know that that's

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kind of the door into doing what you want to do.

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So I think a couple of things that really come

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to mind is just when you think about, like how

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the old formulas you know, don't work anymore. I think

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a lot of organizations kind of what's not working is

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that they're trying to apply these old ways of thinking

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that we're you know, really BUILTNDRED one hundred and fifty

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years ago, back on the factory floors, and even before that,

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you're trying to still apply those ways of thinking to

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the current environment, which really presents I think, kind of

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a distorted experience or a distorted reality for people that

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are in the workplace. And so that's one of the

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things just to keep that in mind is your back pocket.

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But then also I think when you think about some

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of these operating from the outdated social contract, right, So

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I think we all are pretty aware that the days

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when people dedicated their careers to a single organization and

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in return, they got predictable raises, bonuses, and a pension.

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I think we all know that that's kind of gone. Unfortunately,

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that's not really happening anymore because there's no pensions. For

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the most part, wages are underwhelming. Companies are perfectly comfortable

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laying people off as soon as their profits dip below

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a certain margin. And so I think that because that

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contract isn't valid anymore, but yet we're still operating from that,

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I think that also causes a real kind of riff

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and like the reality of like what are we doing here?

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And so I think there's some of those just different

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pieces kind of like the foundational level. So those are

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just things to kind of kick us off with. And

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then that's even pre pandemic, right and then now coming

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out of the pandemic, I mean, it's obviously been a

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while now, but essentially leaders, as we're seeing in the media,

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are now again continuing for five years trying to force

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people to you know, return to the office and do

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all these things, and we're just like, guys, we're not

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there anymore. You know, it wasn't working leading up to

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the pandemic, and now it's definitely not working. We're definitely

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in a new world. We know we can work differently,

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We've proved it that kind of thing, and because leaders

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aren't adapting to that, I think that that's us all

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obviously also kind of causing a rift there as well

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with folks.

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Which we're going to dive more into as well and

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after the break in the second segment. But I also

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want to point out something that's really really important that

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I think are on the serce and viewers really need

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to understand. That's so important of your book, and you

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talk about it's the march toward irrelevancy and non existence. Right,

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So these when you when you embrace these old ways

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of working in these old formulas, you are ripe for disruption.

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I think that's really important to understand. If you'd say

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more about that.

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Yeah, I mean so again, it's kind of tricky to

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talk about this sometimes because I know we're doing this

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real time, and things are changing in real time in

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our world. You know, ten years ago you could write

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about something and it would be relevant right for about

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a couple of years at least. Right now we're updating

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it moment to moment. So I say that because there's

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a lot of things there, right, So there's the word practices,

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which we'll get into more of those and more depth,

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i'm sure, as we've talked about some of them, like

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the return to office all that stuff, but also a

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lot of it is really leaders specifically if you think

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about just like if you look at the stats of

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like how much income level, lived experience, gender, race, all that,

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Like the CEO, the average sea level leader doesn't look

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or have a lived experience that's similar to their average

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employee for the most part. So there's no disconnect there too,

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where they're like, oh, I know what my people want,

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I know what they need. They got to get back

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in the office. That's how you know, it's like that

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gap is getting wider and wider every day. And then

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also again with technology, it's like people live in a

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world where like they have you know, Netflix and Spotify

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and Amazon catering to their every need, and then they

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go to work and it feels like nineteen eighty five

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on the inside, and that's a big disconnect too. So

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there's all these things that I'm sure we'll dive into next,

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but it's all these things where just organizations the way

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they operate from these old school ways of working just

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are not relevant to people anymore, and so a lot

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of folks, as we're seeing, are really jumping in at

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the gig economy and some other structures.

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I really thought it was powerful to know the way

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that you really pointed that out, that you know, people

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have now gotten so used to a life where they

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can order anything they want from Amazon, it's there the

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next day or this afternoon, or you know, the whole

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Netflix experience, and it's just everything and there's so much

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quality around them. And then to your point, now we

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go back to work or the office, and to your point,

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it feels like nineteen eighty five. I think that's a

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really important point for listeners, viewers, and readers to really

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understand about this major disconnect. So I wanted to just

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hammer that home. I want to also talk a little

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bit about this idea of really and I appreciate that

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you you know, part of what you're really focused on

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is experience. What you're saying here, according to you, since

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we have so many more options for for ways to

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make money these days, that people are not trusting you

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know that they're going to have a job, you know,

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for for forever. They're exploring other ways, And so you say,

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companies need to offer a compelling experience that the ever

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evolving workforce can't find elsewhere, and that takes a lot

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of work. And I want to make sure listeners and

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viewers that you don't feel like we're talking act you

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were down to you. This leading today is one of

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the hardest jobs in the whole entire world, and we're

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here to help. So if you could say a little

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something about, you know some of this, you know these ways,

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this so the solution you see people do in side

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hustles and the gig economy, entrepreneurship, multiple streams of income.

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But if you could see a little bit about you know,

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this idea of enticing through this experience and going back

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and learning from the meditis, the Renaissance and how they

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really created this whole other world, what might this improved

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experience look like.

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Oh yes, no, it's it's so good. And there's so

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many things too. And here's the other part too that

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I'll bring up to because I think it's important, is

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it's not just a lot of things that we're going

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to talk about, but these are like pretty much low

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no cost things. Most of the book is a lot

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of practical stuff that doesn't cost a thing or it's

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very little, right right, right, right, So so we can't

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the leaders don't have any excuse of like, oh that's

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too expensive. No it's not. It's literally just being deliberate,

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it's not expensive. So all kinds of things. But what

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I the way that I frame it up in the

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book is I kind of frame it in terms of

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meeting people's human needs and not frustrating those needs, which

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again we'll talk about shortly. I'm sure of like what

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things cause that and that sort of thing. But again,

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what the Medici's did, which is very similar to what

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we're talking about, is if you think about like needs

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for meaning and purpose, needs for connection well being, you know,

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we have actualization or growth that kind of thing, autonomy

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another one. So these are all things and we can

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get into some real practical ways that do it, but

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it's like meeting these needs and removing any of the friction,

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which we can talk a lot about. There's a lot

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of friction in the right and so doing that type

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of thing is exactly what the Medici's did. So they

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literally just quick for those who don't know, like a

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lot of them, just like overview of the things they

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did for these folks is again, they were patrons of

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these artists, right, so they kind of took care of

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their living expenses. They gave him place to live, and

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maybe they didn't pay them a ton of money sometimes,

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but they had all their basic needs taken care of.

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So that's off the table. So they can actually use

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their brain and their energy to be creative and innovative

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and not stress every day, which the average employee, even

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even a year or two ago it was like this,

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but especially now. I mean, we talk about the price

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of eggs, we talk about everything. We're not getting political,

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but the point is the average employee is not the

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wages of not cut up. We'll just say that, right,

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the wages of not cut up with them surviving and living.

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So I guarantee you when I'm stressing about can I

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pay my rent? Can I afford to go to the doctor,

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Can I afford my prescriptions? Can I afford this child?

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All this stuff, I'm definitely not giving you my best

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at work. So there's that well being piece that's taken

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care of as a foundation. If you think about Maslow's

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hierarchy of needs, it's towards the bottom. Then we talk about,

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you know, psychological safety, creating that kind of environment. Organization.

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The Medici's did that as well, right, like really giving

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people the autonomy to go and use their genius. What

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do you want to create? I don't care, I'm gonna

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fund you. You go do you because we know that

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you're good at what you do and that's why we

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hired you in the organization. So that kind of stuff

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is really important and again offering different growth and meaning

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and purpose needs. And the other part too that was

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really cool about the Medici's and organizations can easily do

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this lots of ways is they created kind of an

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artist community. So it was really kind of a cool

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thing of being part of these few people that were

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patroned by the Medici's and it was like this cool

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artist community. There's lots of salons and lots of things

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where they go and they interact together and they trade stories.

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And some of them were competitive, like Michelangelo and Da

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Vinci as we probably all know. So there's all these

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kinds of cool dynamics happening there. So it kind of

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built some competition too. It was like healthy, but it

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was safe. It was psychologically safe. And then I think

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finally just again the meaning and purpose they really got.

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They got to see what their work did. Even some

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of those folks who obviously passed away before they saw

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their fame, but they were seeing their statues, they were

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seeing their pieces up in the town and just different

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things going forward and just being part of this community

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was a really big deal for folks. So again, there's

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lots of easy ways we can do this in organizations,

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but it's really focusing on removing that friction and meeting

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those needs.

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Beautiful to Neil, and it's so inspiring. So and that's

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the world that I want to help ushuare and as

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well Sin. This was a great way to kick us off.

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Let's grab our first break. I'm your host, doctor Early's Cortes.

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We are on the air with Tanil Miller, a seasoned

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executive management consultant and organizational psychologists specializing in transformation, organizational effectiveness,

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and human performance. So you's passionate about creating driving ecosystems

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where businesses succeed because people are empowered to do the

401
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best work of their lives. We'll be right back. We've

402
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been talking a bit about how things the state of

403
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the possibility of learning from the medicis in that history,

404
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and next after the break, I want to help you

405
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understand We want to help you understand the disconnect for

406
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the workforce, what is their actual experience. We'll be right back. Okay,

407
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all right, so let's dive into this second piece here.

408
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So what I wanted to talk about for this segment here, Tanil,

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as you know, is I want to really help our

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listeners and viewers understand what it's like for the workforce.

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As you said earlier, a lot of executives think they

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have a pretty good handle on what it is for

413
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the workforces experiencing, but they really don't. So I like

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what you said before that the workforce has outgrown today's economy,

415
00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:14.680
excuse me, today's company structure, operations, and leadership. So let's

416
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talk a little bit about really that. What does that mean?

417
00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:20.799
Yeah, absolutely, So again not to touch too much on

418
00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:22.440
what we already talked about, but again, a lot of

419
00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:25.799
our current workplace practices are still based if you think

420
00:18:25.799 --> 00:18:28.680
about performance management, you think about just a number of

421
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hours in the chair, all that stuff that was based

422
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on industrial era workplace practices, right, So that was literally

423
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when you had to be in a factory because that's

424
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where the work had to take place. Joe had to

425
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put his cog on here and then Jane did her thing.

426
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Probably Jim probably wasn't a Jane back in the right, right,

427
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right right, So you had to be in the space

428
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and you had to sit there all day. And so

429
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that's how it had to be. So I get it right,

430
00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:50.640
that had to happen. That's not the case anymore. And

431
00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:53.920
so because of that, again, this distorted reality happens. And

432
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so I think one of the things to think about

433
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if you think about that current experience is I kind

434
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of break it down into three different buckets of what's

435
00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:05.200
causing this disengagement at such high levels. I think gallops gosh,

436
00:19:05.240 --> 00:19:07.039
I don't know what it is today, but when I

437
00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:09.000
wrote the book, it was around like eighty five percent

438
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of people are disengaged. And so if you think about

439
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the cost of that is like nine trillion dollars with

440
00:19:13.599 --> 00:19:16.720
a tea, that's insane. So I say that just to

441
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give you that as a burning platform there, and so

442
00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:20.880
I break down into three buckets. So the first piece

443
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that's causing the problem, I think is the organization provides

444
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this distorted reality. As we talked about in the beginning, right,

445
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So using those old ways of working, old formulas, old

446
00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:33.519
ways of measuring performance, return to the office, you have

447
00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:36.079
to be here, old technology. All that stuff is like

448
00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:39.519
again feels like a distorted reality inside the organization, because

449
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we all know that's not how the world is outside

450
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of it. So that's one piece that's really kind of

451
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I think, messing with folks. The other part, as we

452
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again kind of alluded to, is these work practices that

453
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:51.559
contradict human nature. So again this is usually inadvertently, it's

454
00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:53.440
not usually on purpose, but like when we think about

455
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all the friction, all the frustrating the needs like for autonomy,

456
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for growth, for agency, certainty, mastery, meaning all that stuff,

457
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when that gets frustrated in the workplace, that also causes

458
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a big problem. And again a lot of this treating

459
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adults like children. The return to office demands micromanaging, not

460
00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:16.039
co creating with people when you're launching changes or you know,

461
00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:18.079
doing things that are going to impact their role. A

462
00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:20.559
lot of that time is done in the HR suite, right,

463
00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:22.640
or it's done in private. It's not done with people.

464
00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:24.559
So a lot of my work and change management taught

465
00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:26.920
me that that you want to bring in a cross

466
00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:28.920
section of people, especially the people that you think are

467
00:20:28.960 --> 00:20:31.200
going to be resistant to changes or different things you're

468
00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:33.200
trying to do. Yep, you bring them in early and

469
00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:35.119
you get them to just bring that stuff right out

470
00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:36.200
in the front. We're going to get it all in

471
00:20:36.200 --> 00:20:38.720
the open, and then we can actually proactively build like

472
00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:41.599
a resistance management plan into the change plan and the

473
00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:43.960
ways that we do things. So it's like, oh, we're

474
00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:46.160
going to address your concerns upfront. Oh, you're going to

475
00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:49.000
be even more committed because you're building that change with us, right,

476
00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:50.640
and we listen to you and I see this work

477
00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:53.880
like magic every time. So there's that piece, and then

478
00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:56.400
there's certain things like this, So just see if any

479
00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:58.960
of these ring true for anybody. So there's like treating

480
00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:01.880
people like value to be extracted. Right, So when we

481
00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:05.599
think about layoffs, ghosting people that are applying for jobs,

482
00:21:05.960 --> 00:21:11.920
expecting superhuman you know, non burnout expectations that you're always on,

483
00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:14.400
you're always doing all this stuff like this is treating

484
00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:16.880
people like value to be extracted, not like people. And

485
00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:18.519
we all know we don't like that as a client

486
00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:20.640
or a customer. So we also know people don't like

487
00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:24.359
that as employees. So there's that. There's also I think

488
00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:26.759
one of the big hurdles here is the work itself

489
00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:29.880
often isn't as engaging or isn't engaging, because it's been

490
00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:34.440
stripped of the autonomy, the creativity, the ownership, if you will,

491
00:21:34.519 --> 00:21:38.200
in return for standardizing it. And again that standardization comes

492
00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:41.640
from the Industrial Revolution, It comes from factory floors, which

493
00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:43.359
is not the work we're doing today today. Our people

494
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:45.559
need to be creative, they need to be innovative, and

495
00:21:45.599 --> 00:21:48.160
that doesn't lend itself to that. And so the interesting

496
00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:49.759
part about this too, and I talk about this in

497
00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:52.119
a book and that was so funny, is that you

498
00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:55.319
know when they went through because again, before the Industrial Revolution,

499
00:21:55.599 --> 00:21:56.920
a lot of the work, to your point, you know,

500
00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:00.559
was farming, it was artisans, it was artists, it was

501
00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:03.640
things like that where people had lots of creativity, autonomy,

502
00:22:03.839 --> 00:22:05.880
they had the meaning and purpose because they saw how

503
00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:09.359
their product impacted the consumer. That type of thing. Well,

504
00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:12.559
when the Industrial Revolution came in, that stripped the work

505
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:15.359
of all that stuff just to be consistent and standardized.

506
00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:17.519
And I think it was Adam Smith who said something

507
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:20.279
around the lines of he wanted the work to be

508
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:23.400
be how did he say it. He said, it's something

509
00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:26.599
like become as stupid and ignorant as possible, Like he

510
00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:28.480
wanted the work to be able to be for people

511
00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:31.160
who were not skilled, not trained, and we basically just

512
00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:33.319
need your hands to move these cogs on the thing.

513
00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:35.039
We don't need your brain. We don't want your brain.

514
00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:37.359
So there's that piece when you think about the lack

515
00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:40.079
of engagement, and then we have bad managers. There's plenty

516
00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:43.839
of stats around that. Again, treating people like children, I

517
00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:47.039
think is a big theme here as well. And then

518
00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:49.599
I think a lot of a lot of folks talk

519
00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:51.759
about I think Gallup talked about this. Over half of

520
00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:54.440
employees say something like they don't know what's expected of

521
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:57.079
them at work, so a lack of clarity. And it's like, well,

522
00:22:57.079 --> 00:22:58.400
how can I give you my best if I don't

523
00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:00.720
even know what I'm aiming for? Kind of a right,

524
00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:04.119
And then I think the third bucket And again I'm

525
00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:06.200
rattling lots of stuff off here, so please just stop

526
00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:07.839
me along the way. But I want to make sure

527
00:23:07.839 --> 00:23:11.400
everyone gets all the data. But the other piece is

528
00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:13.960
like not taking it from an employee centric lens, because

529
00:23:13.960 --> 00:23:15.839
we try to if we're good as a company. We

530
00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:18.200
do this from a customer perspective pretty well, right, We

531
00:23:18.279 --> 00:23:21.240
build personas we journey map them. We do all kinds

532
00:23:21.240 --> 00:23:23.119
of smell, kinds of money and time and energy get

533
00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:25.400
inside the customer's head. And that's great, but we don't

534
00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:27.720
really do that for our employees unless you're you know,

535
00:23:27.799 --> 00:23:30.839
an anomaly, which is rare. And so I always bring

536
00:23:30.920 --> 00:23:32.440
up the fact that, like with leaders, is like one

537
00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:35.240
of the key tenants of this behavioral economics and persuasion

538
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:37.640
psychology that we're trying to do with clients and customers

539
00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:40.480
is make it as easy as possible for people to

540
00:23:40.519 --> 00:23:42.200
do what you want them to do. And this works

541
00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:43.920
with your dog and your kids too, right, this works

542
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:47.720
with everybody. But right, but if we don't do that,

543
00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:49.559
and we and we have all kinds of friction as

544
00:23:49.599 --> 00:23:53.000
we mentioned earlier buocracy, tons of meetings, lots of new tech,

545
00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:55.119
and we're not doing good change management around it, lots

546
00:23:55.119 --> 00:23:58.160
of emotional friction. If it feels like another job on

547
00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:01.000
top of their job, then this is an environment that's

548
00:24:01.079 --> 00:24:05.000
ripe for disengagement of course and burnout. So you know,

549
00:24:05.039 --> 00:24:06.799
so those are those are the kind of the big buckets.

550
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:08.319
And then in that bucket too, is just kind of

551
00:24:08.359 --> 00:24:10.160
making a lot of the companies I've seen where they

552
00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:12.319
make the leaders of the company like the stars, like

553
00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:14.440
on the on the career's page. It's like, look at

554
00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:17.119
our awesome leadership team and look at how we're number

555
00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:18.799
one in this industry and all this stuff. And I'm

556
00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:20.680
thinking to myself, if I want to work there, do

557
00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:22.400
I care? I mean, maybe I do it, and maybe

558
00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:26.160
if I'm really into being the most customer centric company

559
00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:27.240
in the world, and I think I'm going to go

560
00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:30.079
be the CEO. Fine, But as the average junior employee,

561
00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:32.759
why do I care that you think your leadership team

562
00:24:32.839 --> 00:24:34.319
is great? You know what I mean? Like, why do

563
00:24:34.359 --> 00:24:36.039
we care about this kind of stuff? Like we need

564
00:24:36.039 --> 00:24:38.640
to really make it more of the hero's journey type

565
00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:41.640
of thing and make it the employee the hero and say, hey,

566
00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:43.920
you're the hero. This is the cool mission you're going

567
00:24:43.960 --> 00:24:45.519
to be on when you work in our company. And

568
00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:47.759
here's your manager who's the guide or whwever you want

569
00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:49.880
to phrase it, but like really positioning it in terms

570
00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:52.799
of the employing centric mindset. And so I think a

571
00:24:52.839 --> 00:24:54.880
lot of companies don't do that. And so that's those

572
00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:56.480
are kind of the bigger buckets that I see when

573
00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:58.519
it comes to the experience that are problems.

574
00:24:58.759 --> 00:25:00.359
Okay, so let me chime in on a of those

575
00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:01.960
things that I really want to kind of hammer home.

576
00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:04.279
I hate to say it that way. That sounds terrible

577
00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:06.839
since we're talking about this bring home, shall we say?

578
00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:09.759
But you know this whole idea you talked about how

579
00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:13.200
the workplace is really designed for efficiency and surveillance. I

580
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:16.400
mean I still know companies that still are spying on

581
00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:20.920
their employees. That is to me just zero trust and

582
00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:23.359
just really should be eradicated from the planet. And of

583
00:25:23.400 --> 00:25:25.759
course the compliance factor. And so now what we get is,

584
00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:29.160
as you say, is we do get this tremendous burnout.

585
00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:31.480
I mean, burnout is something that more and more organizations

586
00:25:31.519 --> 00:25:33.319
are dealing with. You're going to see it in your

587
00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:37.640
higher healthcare premiums. People leaving or leaving the organization entirely,

588
00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:39.720
or taking time away to try to get well again.

589
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:42.559
So the turnover, the disengagement, and then I really want

590
00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:44.839
you to speak of it to this. I have never

591
00:25:44.880 --> 00:25:46.880
heard anybody say this before to Neil, and I think

592
00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:51.720
it's so spot on. You say disengagement is a coping

593
00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:55.039
mechanism any healthy human would employ to avoid the cognitive

594
00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:58.319
dissonance or mental discomfort, having to function in an environment

595
00:25:58.359 --> 00:26:02.319
where they find themselves uns they've stifled, or having to

596
00:26:02.680 --> 00:26:05.799
otherwise have it live in a warped experience of reality

597
00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:09.680
many organizations create. I've never heard anybody say that it

598
00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:12.119
was a coping mechanism, and I totally embrace that.

599
00:26:13.319 --> 00:26:15.240
Yeah, I mean, thank you for that. Yeah, it was

600
00:26:15.279 --> 00:26:16.839
one of those things. It just kind of just occurred

601
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:18.680
to me, and it seemed like, how do people not

602
00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:20.640
get this? But again, they're not psychologists like us. Of

603
00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:22.880
course they're not thinking that way probably, but you know,

604
00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:24.839
I decided it. I'm like, you know, nobody wakes up

605
00:26:24.839 --> 00:26:27.359
every day and chooses to disengage from work. Like they

606
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:28.960
don't wake up and say, ooh, I want to spend

607
00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:31.240
all my time a third of my life in a

608
00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:35.960
state of boredom, frustration, anxiety, stress, and alienation. They don't

609
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:37.960
do that, right, just s areing a paycheck. They are

610
00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:40.480
not doing that on purpose. And I think the disengagement,

611
00:26:40.519 --> 00:26:43.519
as we mentioned, it's a coping mechanism because it helps

612
00:26:43.519 --> 00:26:47.160
them avoid the cognitive dissonance or mental discomfort. I would

613
00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:49.799
call it and having to function in that environment where

614
00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:54.039
they find themselves unsafe or stifled or confused or warped.

615
00:26:54.079 --> 00:26:56.359
Reality that we talked about, it's like their brain, it's

616
00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:58.240
kind of like just not it's just like the subconscious,

617
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:00.279
like not even conscious. It's like, oh my god, I

618
00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:01.680
have to function here, so I need to find a

619
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:03.440
way to make it work. Right, So I think they

620
00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:05.079
just kind of do it without even realizing it.

621
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:08.200
Yeah, And then again, since we want to really bring

622
00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:10.799
home the experience of the employee, I want to talk

623
00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:13.640
about what you found with John Clifton, the CEO of Gallup.

624
00:27:14.960 --> 00:27:17.519
You quote him as saying, humanity is trying to figure

625
00:27:17.559 --> 00:27:20.440
out every way possible to get away from work. Employees

626
00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:23.799
aren't just emotionally detached. They're angry about what they're what's

627
00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:27.039
happening in the workplace. And that you do quote the

628
00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:33.720
eighty five percent disengage spot figure. So you know, when

629
00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:36.119
you recognize people are coming to work angry, this is

630
00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:38.839
really not working, folks. I mean, mayday, maybe what do

631
00:27:38.839 --> 00:27:40.799
we need to do here to get your attention that

632
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:44.000
this is not the way to go? I mean, oh,

633
00:27:44.200 --> 00:27:45.839
so you know, and the cost that you put in

634
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:47.240
there and then you go on to say this I

635
00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:51.240
really align with this is that you know, you have

636
00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:53.200
this notion of, of course, how much time that we

637
00:27:53.240 --> 00:27:56.720
spend talking about these things. But you say, when you

638
00:27:56.759 --> 00:27:58.680
add up to seven point eight trillion dollar cost of

639
00:27:58.759 --> 00:28:02.319
loss productivity due to engaged employees, we're talking about ninety

640
00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:05.519
percent of the global GDP, nearly double the market cap

641
00:28:05.559 --> 00:28:09.279
of Google, Amazon, and Apple combined. And his work gets

642
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:11.880
interesting form my vantage point. And that doesn't even account

643
00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:15.480
for the time, energy, and life stolen from each disengaged

644
00:28:15.559 --> 00:28:17.400
employee stolen.

645
00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:21.200
Yeah, and it doesn't have to be this way. That's

646
00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:25.400
the sick part, like you role, and I don't think

647
00:28:25.559 --> 00:28:27.799
most leaders walk in to work everybody saying, Ooh, I'm

648
00:28:27.799 --> 00:28:29.920
going to make everyone you know feel like crap and

649
00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:32.119
I'm going to steal their life. No one's saying that,

650
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:34.839
but it's because people aren't deliberate about this, and unfortunately

651
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:36.680
there aren't enough people like you and I who are.

652
00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:40.279
Actually I would recommend a sea level role in the

653
00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:42.920
organization that looks across the entire vantage point. I'm not

654
00:28:42.920 --> 00:28:45.359
talking to an HR leader, because unfortunately there's some really

655
00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:48.200
great ones, but most of the HR. First of all,

656
00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:50.160
it's fire you know, it's like it's firefighting and it's

657
00:28:50.200 --> 00:28:52.839
reacting to this, and it's payroll, and it's it's often

658
00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:56.279
not that strategic unfortunately, and so we need someone that

659
00:28:56.319 --> 00:28:59.400
can see the vantage point at the sea level across everything.

660
00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:01.759
And it's very much the employee experience. It's all the

661
00:29:01.759 --> 00:29:04.480
stuff we're talking about. They partner with all with it,

662
00:29:05.079 --> 00:29:08.559
with the commer chief commercial officer, with everybody to understand

663
00:29:08.599 --> 00:29:10.799
how it like, just like you would understand every step

664
00:29:10.839 --> 00:29:13.640
of the customer journey, you and I understand every step,

665
00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:16.160
every moment of the employee journey and bring them in

666
00:29:17.079 --> 00:29:17.559
listen to this.

667
00:29:18.440 --> 00:29:20.559
Yes, and then so then the last thing I want

668
00:29:20.559 --> 00:29:22.880
to talk about for this particular segment is I just

669
00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:26.599
I don't understand why we have all of these large

670
00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:31.279
organizations having a forced mandate return to the office. I

671
00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:33.720
don't you know, during the pandemic, we actually talked about

672
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:36.799
well being. Even Gallup moved and talked away from engagement too.

673
00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:40.400
Well being. To me, when I see these force mandates,

674
00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:43.519
there's no way that they're taking into consideration what the

675
00:29:43.559 --> 00:29:46.079
employee needs and how they can flourish. There's it's a

676
00:29:46.240 --> 00:29:49.680
one sighted view. I want you here. I want your

677
00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:53.039
dairy er in this seat at this time. What happened

678
00:29:53.119 --> 00:29:55.880
to Neil? Why did we lose the mooring there? And

679
00:29:55.960 --> 00:29:59.480
what is causing Do you think that fears just returned

680
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:01.680
back to like the riverband, trying to snap back to

681
00:30:01.720 --> 00:30:02.200
where it was.

682
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:05.079
Yes, Oh my god. I feel like every time I've

683
00:30:05.079 --> 00:30:07.440
talked about this in the last five years, it's my

684
00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:09.400
answer is a different moment to moment because as we

685
00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:11.599
see different news stories and different companies are making different

686
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:13.640
demands at different times, and we've gone back and forth,

687
00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:15.480
as you mentioned them with the rubber band, Oh now,

688
00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:18.440
employees have the power, they say, because there's a tougher

689
00:30:18.519 --> 00:30:21.599
job mar or tougher market to find people. Oh now,

690
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:23.400
it's a tougher job mark all the stuff. And so

691
00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:25.920
unfortunately that's not the game we should be playing. That's

692
00:30:25.960 --> 00:30:27.920
not the game that is being played. But that's the

693
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:30.000
game that leaders are trying to play. And so the

694
00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:32.880
thing is is to your point, I it's just I'm

695
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:34.960
almost nauseous when I talk about this now because it's

696
00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:38.039
like I just don't get it. I've spoken to a

697
00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:39.359
lot of them, a lot of the work I've done

698
00:30:39.400 --> 00:30:41.599
in the last five years has been around helping companies

699
00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:44.039
transition to that more hybrid model and not you know,

700
00:30:44.079 --> 00:30:47.640
rescind and not go back in their tracks. And unfortunately

701
00:30:47.680 --> 00:30:50.400
the ones that are especially lately, they're bringing it all back,

702
00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:53.039
bringing the demands back. There's a lot of things here.

703
00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:54.960
I think one of the biggest things is is we

704
00:30:55.039 --> 00:30:57.440
know it's not rocket science. They're just not comfortable, they

705
00:30:57.440 --> 00:30:59.799
don't believe, they don't trust that people are working, they

706
00:30:59.799 --> 00:31:01.079
don't don't know how to lead. I've had some of

707
00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:03.119
them pulled me aside and said, hey, privately, I just

708
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:04.880
don't feel important if I don't have people in the

709
00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:08.559
office kind of scurrying around and I look important, Like, honestly, candidly,

710
00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:10.440
I don't feel important if I'm not their talent people

711
00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:13.599
what to do? What's my purpose? And so I'm like, wow, right,

712
00:31:13.839 --> 00:31:15.640
And I think that's more common than we realize. So

713
00:31:15.640 --> 00:31:18.039
there's that, there's the old school mindset where this is

714
00:31:18.039 --> 00:31:20.200
how I grew up and I don't know how to

715
00:31:20.279 --> 00:31:22.200
lead any other way. But guess what we can get

716
00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:24.480
up skilled. We can get podcasts, we can get books,

717
00:31:24.519 --> 00:31:26.960
we can get coaching, like all the things. So it's

718
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:28.319
just kind of like that I think there's a lot

719
00:31:28.319 --> 00:31:29.960
of ego involved with some of them, a lot of

720
00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:31.440
them that are doing it. I do think it's ego,

721
00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:34.279
especially in the last five six months or so that

722
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:38.400
they're doing it again. But unfortunately they are going to

723
00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:40.720
long term. It's it's such a short game, I think,

724
00:31:40.839 --> 00:31:42.680
and I do think that this is just like I

725
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:46.519
think Brene Brown calls this Powerover's last stand. So it's

726
00:31:46.559 --> 00:31:49.440
like the last stand. We're just clinging to this what

727
00:31:49.519 --> 00:31:52.160
we think is our power. And unfortunately they're losing their

728
00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:54.799
top talent because when they do that, who leaves top talent?

729
00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:55.480
Yeah?

730
00:31:56.119 --> 00:31:58.640
Right, there are many other options. Yeah, and they have

731
00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:00.599
other options, and they know that they how they work

732
00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:02.920
best and all this stuff. Top talent, especially in today's

733
00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:06.160
economy that needs creativity and innovation, et cetera. They don't

734
00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:08.200
flourish when they're being told to sit in a chair

735
00:32:08.359 --> 00:32:09.759
for a certain number of hours a day for an

736
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:12.319
arbitrary reason and check a box and whatever like that's

737
00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:14.119
not really the kind of talent. That's what you should

738
00:32:14.119 --> 00:32:16.559
be getting robots and AI to be doing. Right, So

739
00:32:16.599 --> 00:32:18.559
I think what organizations need to be doing, and I

740
00:32:18.599 --> 00:32:20.400
know they're going to get there it's just taking some time.

741
00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:23.720
Is really focusing on one way to solve this problem,

742
00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:26.759
I think is instead of focusing on ours and all

743
00:32:26.799 --> 00:32:29.640
these old school mindsets of how we measure performance, Let's

744
00:32:29.759 --> 00:32:32.599
find out what the real metrics are, the real KPIs

745
00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:34.799
that actually move the needle, what is the things that

746
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:37.599
make the impact, and then measure performance on that and

747
00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:40.279
then who cares when we're how what they would work?

748
00:32:40.680 --> 00:32:40.839
Right?

749
00:32:41.559 --> 00:32:43.720
But because we don't do that, because leaders don't have

750
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:47.279
that to reach for quickly, they go back to the

751
00:32:47.319 --> 00:32:49.039
way that things were. So I think that would actually

752
00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:50.000
be a good solve for this.

753
00:32:50.559 --> 00:32:53.640
Okay, I think that's very powerful. All right, let's grab

754
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:56.400
our break here. I'm your host, doctor Early's Cortes. We

755
00:32:56.400 --> 00:32:58.279
were on the air with to Neil Miller. She's a

756
00:32:58.319 --> 00:33:02.599
seasoned executive management consulting and an organizational psychologists specializing in transformation,

757
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:07.039
organizational effectiveness, and human performance. She's passionate about creating thriving

758
00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:10.359
ecosystems where businesses succeed because people are empowered to do

759
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:12.920
the best work of their lives. We've been talking about

760
00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:16.000
what the experience is like of the actual employees who

761
00:33:16.039 --> 00:33:18.599
you depend on to get the work done and realize

762
00:33:18.599 --> 00:33:20.960
the mission of your organization. After the break, we're going

763
00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:23.079
to bring it home and help you by giving you

764
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:25.799
giving youse and information on how companies and leadership can

765
00:33:25.880 --> 00:33:29.119
rise to meet the needs of today's evolved workforce and

766
00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:31.119
thus succeed mightily. We'll be right back.

767
00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:50.200
Doctor Elise Court says as a management consultant specializing in

768
00:33:50.279 --> 00:33:53.960
meaning and purpose, an inspirational speaker and author, she helps

769
00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:57.440
companies visioneer for a greater purpose among stakeholders and develop

770
00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:02.240
purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,

771
00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:05.319
and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to

772
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:08.280
invite a lease to speak to your organization, please visit

773
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:11.519
her at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to

774
00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:20.079
get your employees working on purpose. This is working on

775
00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:23.679
Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today

776
00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:26.559
or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email

777
00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:31.719
to a lease a lisee at elisecortes dot com. Now

778
00:34:31.960 --> 00:34:33.559
back to working on purpose.

779
00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:40.400
Thanks for stating with us, and welcome back to working

780
00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:43.199
on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as I too,

781
00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:45.639
Like Danil, I am dedicated to helping create a world

782
00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:48.079
where people realize their potential at work. Are led by

783
00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:50.679
inspirational leaders who help theme find and contribute their greatness,

784
00:34:50.679 --> 00:34:52.760
and we do business that betters the world. I keep

785
00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:54.800
researching and writing my own books, so my last one

786
00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:57.000
came out in twenty twenty three. It's called a Great

787
00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:00.239
Revitalization How activating meaning and purpose can radically end even

788
00:35:00.320 --> 00:35:03.440
your business, And like to Neil, it's really designed to

789
00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:06.440
help leaders understand how the world of work and workforce

790
00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:09.119
has changed, and it provides twenty two best practices to

791
00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:12.440
fold into your culture to create that for them. You

792
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:14.679
can find my books on Amazon or my website. Please

793
00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:17.519
Quretts dot com if you are just joining us. My

794
00:35:17.559 --> 00:35:19.519
guest is to Neil Miller. She's the author of The

795
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:24.199
Flourishing Effect, unlocking employee thriving as your competitive advantage. So,

796
00:35:24.440 --> 00:35:26.719
of course in the last segment we talked about what

797
00:35:26.760 --> 00:35:29.280
it was like for the employee, and for this segment,

798
00:35:29.320 --> 00:35:31.880
I want to start helping our listeners and viewers think

799
00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:34.320
about ways they can start to meet the evolved needs

800
00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:37.199
of today's workforce. And the first thing that you talk

801
00:35:37.239 --> 00:35:39.840
about is the importance of updating your operating system to

802
00:35:39.880 --> 00:35:43.719
meet the moment, and also which includes when you do

803
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:45.840
want people back in the office, give them a reason

804
00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:46.480
to be there.

805
00:35:48.039 --> 00:35:51.400
Yes, And this is something that I think is really

806
00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:53.840
interesting and really important because again, we can complain all

807
00:35:53.880 --> 00:35:56.039
day long about the fighting of who's right this and that,

808
00:35:56.079 --> 00:35:58.239
but I think we need to offer real solutions. So

809
00:35:58.320 --> 00:35:59.840
the first thing I would say is again, give them

810
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:02.000
that that reason to come to the office. And a

811
00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:03.679
few of these things that come to mind from my

812
00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:08.559
perspective is make the office a high profile destination. Right,

813
00:36:08.599 --> 00:36:10.639
So this is something that leaders can do, right, make

814
00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:13.000
it the cool place to go. Right. So it's like

815
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:16.639
it's it's long been this mundane, boring place where you

816
00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:18.599
just kind of have to come every day. But what

817
00:36:18.639 --> 00:36:21.519
if instead it was like a place where people are

818
00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:23.800
really eager to visit, right, and they heard great things

819
00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:25.480
are happening there and they felt like they're kind of

820
00:36:25.480 --> 00:36:27.599
missing out if they weren't there. So you can do

821
00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:32.159
this by really curating connections, exposure to leaders and offering

822
00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:34.679
I guess tailored I would call it tailored kind of

823
00:36:34.760 --> 00:36:37.199
kind of epic experiences, right, So this could be like

824
00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:40.400
guest speakers or things like that. And really just creating

825
00:36:40.400 --> 00:36:44.199
this environment that fosters that creativity, the collaboration, that type

826
00:36:44.199 --> 00:36:46.239
of thing, because again, we can all work great at

827
00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:48.280
home or in our little coffee shops or whatever, but

828
00:36:48.280 --> 00:36:50.000
when we want to collaborate and come in, it's like

829
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:52.000
a really cool place. I think that's one way you

830
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:53.960
can do it is just build build a place that

831
00:36:54.159 --> 00:36:56.199
looks and feels like that and people are buzzing about it.

832
00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:57.840
And then I think with that, you know, like you

833
00:36:58.000 --> 00:36:59.599
kind of woul don't want to have a full calendar

834
00:36:59.719 --> 00:37:01.880
of experiential events, is what I would call it, right,

835
00:37:01.920 --> 00:37:03.920
so things that they can't really get at home they

836
00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:06.440
really want to come to the office for. So again,

837
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:09.159
some of my clients have done things like they've had concerts,

838
00:37:09.519 --> 00:37:13.719
escape rooms, volunteer community events, you know, speakers again, as

839
00:37:13.719 --> 00:37:15.480
I mentioned things like that, and I think that that

840
00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:17.519
really helps out, especially if it's done ahead of time

841
00:37:17.559 --> 00:37:19.400
and people know ahead of time they have a calendar

842
00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:21.880
to look at and kind of plan their visit. I

843
00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:23.679
think the other piece here again is just number one,

844
00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:26.519
curating the connection, like why are they coming in, giving

845
00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:29.480
them a reason to write, helping them understand what's the reason,

846
00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:32.480
what's the purpose. Maybe it's a working session whatever, but again,

847
00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:36.159
creating that connection is really big. Here. Let's see what

848
00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:37.000
else I.

849
00:37:36.920 --> 00:37:39.159
Think again, one more thing we've got to talk about.

850
00:37:39.199 --> 00:37:42.000
This is so cool. Choose your own adventure career paths,

851
00:37:42.440 --> 00:37:45.320
like so many people wanted. I guess from my research,

852
00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:47.679
they leave their manager and then because they're not learning

853
00:37:47.679 --> 00:37:50.360
and growing. And I love this idea of choosing your

854
00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:52.280
own adventure career path If you could talk a little

855
00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:52.960
bit about that.

856
00:37:53.239 --> 00:37:55.280
Yeah, absolutely, And this is what people This is especially

857
00:37:55.280 --> 00:37:57.519
what the younger generation is already doing on the side.

858
00:37:57.639 --> 00:38:00.400
So why not do that organization to keep them in age, right,

859
00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:02.480
because you have more resources to do so. But again

860
00:38:02.519 --> 00:38:05.079
we all know this like one size fits all career ladders. Again,

861
00:38:05.159 --> 00:38:07.440
this old ways of working thing, it's not working anymore.

862
00:38:07.480 --> 00:38:09.559
And so with that, they're they want like they're not

863
00:38:09.639 --> 00:38:12.079
they don't necessarily want the same thing that other generations

864
00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:14.880
want it where it was like very linear and traditional.

865
00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:17.199
Instead they want to like we want to create growth

866
00:38:17.239 --> 00:38:19.440
in like in their earning power and their achievements. Right,

867
00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:21.639
So they want to give them freedom. We want to

868
00:38:21.639 --> 00:38:23.320
give them all kinds of different ways to learn. And

869
00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:25.159
I can talk through some of those what those look like.

870
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:27.920
But there's like all kinds of things like career marketplaces,

871
00:38:28.039 --> 00:38:32.639
reverse mentoring and embracing their gig, their gig, their side

872
00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:34.519
gig or their side hustle, that type of thing. Like

873
00:38:34.519 --> 00:38:35.960
there's all kinds of different ways we can do this,

874
00:38:36.039 --> 00:38:39.039
but really offering them these ways of kind of lateral moves,

875
00:38:39.239 --> 00:38:41.360
trying things on in different areas, and then with that

876
00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:43.480
not just saying here's another thing, because again, they want

877
00:38:43.519 --> 00:38:45.199
to do different things and learn new things because they

878
00:38:45.199 --> 00:38:46.960
know at the end of the day, they're not getting

879
00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:49.199
that pension. They're not staying there forever. We all know that.

880
00:38:49.280 --> 00:38:51.320
So they want to be more valuable when they leave

881
00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:54.039
your organization, and so giving them these opportunities to learn

882
00:38:54.039 --> 00:38:55.760
and stretch and grow in different ways is going to

883
00:38:55.840 --> 00:38:56.639
be really valuable.

884
00:38:57.639 --> 00:39:00.599
Love that that's so great. The next you know this

885
00:39:00.679 --> 00:39:02.400
is of course, you can't get off the air without

886
00:39:02.440 --> 00:39:05.000
talking about purpose with me, right, And I love how

887
00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:07.320
you situated as the north Star people can believe in

888
00:39:07.400 --> 00:39:09.239
and I find I'm so amazed to me, like there's

889
00:39:09.239 --> 00:39:11.320
some new oranizations that records. Yeah, purpose is really important.

890
00:39:11.360 --> 00:39:13.719
Oh yeah, we've got this purpose statement that we're not living,

891
00:39:13.719 --> 00:39:16.159
and nobody knows anything about what it means. Right. So,

892
00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:20.280
but more and more of the workforce and the consumers

893
00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:22.800
are more intentional and concerning about the companies they choose

894
00:39:22.840 --> 00:39:25.840
to associate with, and they want to align on those

895
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:28.039
values for what they buy and where they go to work.

896
00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:30.119
So can you say a little bit more about just

897
00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:31.760
how to activate purpose?

898
00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:34.199
Yeah? Absolutely, Well, first I just want to throw one

899
00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:35.719
little side note in here too, is that I think

900
00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:38.239
a lot of people, especially leaders, they hear the word

901
00:39:38.239 --> 00:39:40.360
purpose and they think of it like culture. Right. Oh, yeah,

902
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:42.679
we know it's important, but they don't really understand what

903
00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:44.719
it is, and they don't really understand that it's actually

904
00:39:44.760 --> 00:39:48.199
a very strategic tool. Right, do it the right way.

905
00:39:48.199 --> 00:39:51.440
If you're deliberate about it and you really focus on it,

906
00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:53.000
it does a couple of things, right. So the purpose

907
00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:55.400
of purpose is how I frame it is. It's a

908
00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:58.480
strategic tool to guide the organization. It can build trust,

909
00:39:58.559 --> 00:40:01.880
it can garner respect by your motivation, pride and commitment.

910
00:40:02.039 --> 00:40:02.199
Right.

911
00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:04.159
So the way that I kind of think about that

912
00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:07.400
is it guides leaders again by serving as that north star, right,

913
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:09.320
So that kind of helps them understand. Okay, when there's

914
00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:12.000
some social issue in the media, do they speak out

915
00:40:12.039 --> 00:40:13.760
on it or do they not? Right, if it doesn't

916
00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:15.960
align with their purpose, they probably shouldn't be speaking about it.

917
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:18.320
If it does, then they may want to. It builds

918
00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:20.519
trust because it lets people know what to expect from you.

919
00:40:20.679 --> 00:40:22.960
That could be your employees as well as your shareholders.

920
00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:27.679
That type of thing again unites stakeholders because they know, oh, yeah,

921
00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:30.239
well we want profit. If we think about like capitalism, right,

922
00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:32.440
conscious capitalism, it's like, well, we know that this is

923
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:35.519
our purpose. So according to that, then you stakeholders over

924
00:40:35.519 --> 00:40:37.239
here need to get on board like it. It offers

925
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:40.320
I think, a non emotional, very objective way to be

926
00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:43.679
very strategic in nature and really give people that perspective

927
00:40:43.760 --> 00:40:47.679
and really giving again employees, giving them something to believe in, right,

928
00:40:47.679 --> 00:40:49.280
because again, it's one of those things where it's like,

929
00:40:49.320 --> 00:40:51.639
as you mentioned, whether you're a consumer or an employee,

930
00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:54.559
you really want to know that your hours or dollars

931
00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:56.920
and or dollars really matter in today's world. And so

932
00:40:56.920 --> 00:40:58.079
there's a lot of ways you can do this. A

933
00:40:58.119 --> 00:40:59.960
lot of companies do it, but I think one really

934
00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:03.960
good example is Unilever. They actually did what I would

935
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:06.320
call they get bonus points because they not just developed

936
00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:07.960
their own purpose as a company, which a lot of

937
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:11.239
companies do have a quote purpose, but they actually said,

938
00:41:11.320 --> 00:41:13.199
let's take it a step further and let's hold some

939
00:41:13.239 --> 00:41:15.840
workshops and do some exercises with our executive team first

940
00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:17.800
and later on they did it with the entire company,

941
00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:19.480
but they rolled it out and they basically in these

942
00:41:19.519 --> 00:41:24.159
smaller workshops, they helped through facilitation, understand what each individual

943
00:41:24.480 --> 00:41:27.480
employee's purpose was, like they kind of worked through that exercise,

944
00:41:27.760 --> 00:41:29.440
and then at the end of that they connected each

945
00:41:29.480 --> 00:41:32.360
of those purposes to the organizational purpose. And so that's

946
00:41:32.440 --> 00:41:35.519
really the most powerful thing ever, right right right, I.

947
00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:36.920
Totally know because I do that as well. I want

948
00:41:36.920 --> 00:41:38.719
to also through in that little pot as As a

949
00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:44.239
great example, the Mexican Bacrease Organization BEMBO. They have they

950
00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:46.679
operate in twenty two different countries around the world. They

951
00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:49.079
have a last coup one hundred and thirty thousand employees.

952
00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:52.559
And because the founder recognized that this isn't a company,

953
00:41:52.599 --> 00:41:56.000
it's it's an organization of combined souls, they do a

954
00:41:56.039 --> 00:41:59.960
similar exercise when they onboard, they have their people learn

955
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:02.760
to discover or detect their own purpose and their values

956
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:05.880
and look for how can they thurn that through and

957
00:42:05.960 --> 00:42:09.960
with that of the organization to therefore expand themselves. And

958
00:42:10.239 --> 00:42:14.760
I think it's tremendous, so tremendous love that I did too.

959
00:42:14.920 --> 00:42:18.079
I did too. So I'm just a couple more things

960
00:42:18.119 --> 00:42:19.639
I want to get from you before you go, because

961
00:42:19.719 --> 00:42:22.239
there's so much, so much value here. But I have

962
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:25.079
to have you talk about the chapter it's called the

963
00:42:25.159 --> 00:42:27.920
King has Been to Throne, the fundamental shift in leadership,

964
00:42:28.840 --> 00:42:31.599
you know, just the importance first of leading yourself first.

965
00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:33.320
Can you talk about a little bit about that?

966
00:42:34.039 --> 00:42:36.800
Yeah? Absolutely, So this is the thing that I actually

967
00:42:36.800 --> 00:42:38.039
I am writing it a second book right now, and

968
00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:40.119
I'm talking a lot about the individual level, right so,

969
00:42:40.159 --> 00:42:41.960
not just as a leader, but as any person on

970
00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:44.440
an individual level, you have to lead yourself first. So

971
00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:46.480
that means a lot of things, but basically just on

972
00:42:46.519 --> 00:42:49.840
a basic level, super self awareness. Do all the assessments

973
00:42:49.840 --> 00:42:52.280
you can do, all the reflecting, all the journaling, all

974
00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:54.599
the different there's so much out there resource wise. You

975
00:42:54.599 --> 00:42:56.960
get gpt it whatever you want, but get to know

976
00:42:57.199 --> 00:43:01.079
yourself and your motivations, your blind spots, zones of genius,

977
00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:03.679
your shadow, all that stuff like that is number one,

978
00:43:03.800 --> 00:43:05.679
especially as a leader, because all that stuff is going

979
00:43:05.719 --> 00:43:08.880
to come out in the workplace. I'm not aware of it, right,

980
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:11.559
So we need to do that. Everyone lead yourself. And

981
00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:13.880
then also with that too, understanding like as so many

982
00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:16.239
leaders they praise themselves and each other on ooh, I

983
00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:18.280
hustled in grind and didn't sleep for three days. This

984
00:43:18.320 --> 00:43:19.880
is so great. I'm like, no, it's not great because

985
00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:22.800
we all know that that's coming out in your workforce

986
00:43:22.840 --> 00:43:25.320
and your people are feeling it. It's not good. It's

987
00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:26.840
just it's not good for your health, it's not good

988
00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:29.159
for your well being. You're probably snapping at people all

989
00:43:29.239 --> 00:43:32.400
kinds of things. So just again, leading yourself first, very simple.

990
00:43:32.440 --> 00:43:34.920
But once you fill your own cup, then you have

991
00:43:35.119 --> 00:43:39.000
the resources and the ability to pay it forward, right

992
00:43:39.039 --> 00:43:41.840
and really help focus on other people and be developing

993
00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:43.880
them and focusing on that bigger picture. So the number

994
00:43:43.880 --> 00:43:45.840
one thing is just do that because I think it'll

995
00:43:45.880 --> 00:43:47.360
help you really overcome your ego in a lot of

996
00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:47.920
cases too.

997
00:43:48.519 --> 00:43:50.800
Yeah, And I you know, I also like I believe

998
00:43:50.960 --> 00:43:52.840
very strongly in getting you talk about in your book

999
00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:56.400
and these outside sources outside your usual circle. You know,

1000
00:43:56.559 --> 00:43:58.519
I have I always have at least two coaches that

1001
00:43:58.559 --> 00:44:01.440
I'm working with for myself. So and then you also

1002
00:44:01.480 --> 00:44:03.960
talk about you just recognize you're no longer the hero

1003
00:44:04.079 --> 00:44:06.239
your people are. And then you talk about being a

1004
00:44:06.280 --> 00:44:09.960
meaning maker, you know, helping people recognize how they matter.

1005
00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:12.039
Of course, Zach mccuria has done on my program. He's

1006
00:44:12.079 --> 00:44:14.280
coming back a little bit again later. He's known for

1007
00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:16.599
that kind of work. There's so much that you can

1008
00:44:16.639 --> 00:44:20.480
do to be an effective leader and be dethroned and

1009
00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:26.320
you work and therefore be more effective. I really want

1010
00:44:26.360 --> 00:44:28.039
to talk about this. I think this is probably benda.

1011
00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:30.719
Our last point here is I love the idea, and

1012
00:44:30.760 --> 00:44:32.960
I think this should be the promise of every organization,

1013
00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:35.639
is to make your people a better version of themselves,

1014
00:44:36.000 --> 00:44:39.039
activate their strengths, their potential and their mastery. It's just

1015
00:44:39.039 --> 00:44:40.440
spend a little bit of time talking about that.

1016
00:44:41.159 --> 00:44:42.800
Yeah, I mean, I came across as stat when I

1017
00:44:42.840 --> 00:44:45.440
was writing it that they said only five percent of

1018
00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:48.199
people feel like they are meeting their full potential at work.

1019
00:44:48.480 --> 00:44:52.079
Think about that five percent crazy, and companies are complaining

1020
00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:53.840
all the time, Oh, we're not productive enough, we're not

1021
00:44:53.880 --> 00:44:56.199
this and that, and I'm like, you're only leveraging five

1022
00:44:56.239 --> 00:44:58.719
percent of your people and they're getting stifled and leaving

1023
00:44:58.760 --> 00:45:00.679
because of it. They're underwhelmed, and that's the cause of

1024
00:45:00.679 --> 00:45:03.559
burnout as well, right, just feeling underutilized. It's such a

1025
00:45:03.559 --> 00:45:05.559
big deal. It's such a big opportunity for both the

1026
00:45:05.599 --> 00:45:07.599
company and for the people. And so in the book

1027
00:45:07.639 --> 00:45:09.599
on that chapter, I make it a point to really

1028
00:45:09.639 --> 00:45:11.920
talk about like some really interesting cool ways that I've

1029
00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:15.320
seen companies do this and again low no cost options here.

1030
00:45:15.400 --> 00:45:18.840
So again personal purpose. Right, We've already talked about this,

1031
00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:21.639
aligning the purpose. It literally doesn't cost anything. It's just

1032
00:45:21.880 --> 00:45:24.400
helping people. It's just how we discuss it and connecting

1033
00:45:24.400 --> 00:45:26.760
the dots and helping people see how their work fits

1034
00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:33.000
that purpose. Job crafting, amy resisties work. Yep, people can

1035
00:45:33.000 --> 00:45:35.079
go google it if you don't know it. It's really impactful.

1036
00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:40.199
Internal marketplaces, apprenticeship programs, reverse mentoring again, embracing their side hustles.

1037
00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:42.119
I mean I work with clients where they actually are

1038
00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:44.119
so transparent with their people that their people tell them

1039
00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:46.599
their side hustles, and one of them even funds some

1040
00:45:46.639 --> 00:45:48.719
of their side hustles into parts of their business. Like,

1041
00:45:48.760 --> 00:45:50.599
there's so many different ways you can do that. But

1042
00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:53.519
the point is, because the social contract is different. People

1043
00:45:53.559 --> 00:45:56.599
aren't staying forever. They need again to feel more valuable

1044
00:45:56.599 --> 00:45:58.480
when they leave you than when they came to you,

1045
00:45:58.679 --> 00:46:00.519
which means you need to really folks on this.

1046
00:46:01.239 --> 00:46:04.400
Yeah, I love this. You also talk about peer coaching

1047
00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:08.039
as being another thing. I also loved what you talked

1048
00:46:08.039 --> 00:46:11.840
about Netflix, your Netflix, your L and D department right

1049
00:46:11.880 --> 00:46:14.559
gone to the days of relying solely on traditional training methods,

1050
00:46:14.559 --> 00:46:19.159
but to upscale your your your workforce using these other ways,

1051
00:46:19.199 --> 00:46:21.320
these other dynamic ways to keep them learning. I love

1052
00:46:21.360 --> 00:46:26.920
that as well. M Let's see we are pretty close

1053
00:46:26.960 --> 00:46:28.239
to me in here, but maybe you have to say

1054
00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:30.400
a little bit about this. You've got a chapter of

1055
00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:33.039
purpose in every job, the art of meaning making. We've

1056
00:46:33.039 --> 00:46:35.159
talked a little bit about this already, but can you

1057
00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:36.840
just say maybe a couple of things about that.

1058
00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:39.159
Yeah, I mean, I think we all are aware. I

1059
00:46:39.159 --> 00:46:40.920
mean I think it's I personally think it's a human need.

1060
00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:43.719
It's not just a gen Z need or a millennial need. Correct,

1061
00:46:44.119 --> 00:46:45.679
that's what the media talks about, but it's all of

1062
00:46:45.719 --> 00:46:47.360
us as humans. We all have a need for meeting

1063
00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:49.639
and purpose, as you know with the logo therapy, and

1064
00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:52.360
yes that's a whole podcast in its own, I hope.

1065
00:46:52.400 --> 00:46:55.280
But the good news is there's so many ways again

1066
00:46:55.360 --> 00:46:57.280
as you are building this into the work for your

1067
00:46:57.280 --> 00:46:59.960
people that cost nothing. It's simple things like the manager

1068
00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:03.679
connecting the dots, showing Joe his picture, his spreadsheet and

1069
00:47:03.679 --> 00:47:05.840
how that impacts the client or how it impacts this

1070
00:47:05.960 --> 00:47:09.639
upstream team or whatever. Just connecting dots for people, showing

1071
00:47:09.679 --> 00:47:12.880
them they matter. David Burkis psychologist, does some great work

1072
00:47:12.920 --> 00:47:17.480
on highlighting interdependence, helping people how their inputs contribute to

1073
00:47:17.599 --> 00:47:19.760
people's output or you know, vice, whatever the case may be.

1074
00:47:19.880 --> 00:47:23.400
And it's simple things like that shared purpose on a

1075
00:47:23.440 --> 00:47:25.440
team to get a team rallied around it. There's all

1076
00:47:25.519 --> 00:47:27.280
kinds of really interesting ways you can do this, but

1077
00:47:27.400 --> 00:47:31.119
it's just a matter of how you language the work basically, maybe.

1078
00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:35.000
Talk about languaging, talk about sense making, you know, really

1079
00:47:35.039 --> 00:47:39.920
helping people recognize you're overlooking the actual employee experience and

1080
00:47:39.960 --> 00:47:43.519
you're missing the chance to really unleash that intrinsic motivation

1081
00:47:43.559 --> 00:47:46.239
when people seeing to your point, how they're connected to

1082
00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:48.719
the bigger mission of the organization. I also liked in

1083
00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:53.000
terms of making it the return on experience for the offices.

1084
00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:57.559
You bring in customers or clients to showcase and share

1085
00:47:57.719 --> 00:48:01.000
how they've been impacted by what the company does. When

1086
00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:03.239
people see that, I mean, that is really really that

1087
00:48:03.320 --> 00:48:05.280
was really powerful idea as well from your book.

1088
00:48:05.599 --> 00:48:07.719
Yeah, and clients love it. That's the thing is, clients

1089
00:48:07.719 --> 00:48:09.199
are like, oh, this is so cool, Like I'm a

1090
00:48:09.239 --> 00:48:11.800
case study. Right. I think Bill George was the former

1091
00:48:11.840 --> 00:48:14.639
CEO of Metronic. He literally at the Christmas party every

1092
00:48:14.679 --> 00:48:17.679
year would bring because again Metronic medical devices. He'd bring

1093
00:48:17.719 --> 00:48:19.639
some of the folks that were patients and use the

1094
00:48:19.960 --> 00:48:22.199
device on stage just to tell a quick story. And

1095
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:24.760
everybody got to see, Oh my god. Every day when

1096
00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:29.400
I'm queueing this or doing that, it makes little Susie's heartbeat.

1097
00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:31.920
You know what I mean, right, I know? And Bill

1098
00:48:31.960 --> 00:48:33.880
George is a love. He's been on my podcast as well.

1099
00:48:33.920 --> 00:48:36.440
He's a love. Okay, we've come to the end of

1100
00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:38.559
the show. Al and it happened so fast. Say, in

1101
00:48:38.679 --> 00:48:40.719
ditate seconds, what would you like to leave them with you?

1102
00:48:40.800 --> 00:48:44.440
Neil, Well, I'm writing a bit about this in my

1103
00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:46.920
next book. As I mentioned it's how individuals can flourish,

1104
00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:48.880
and I think the number one thing is, you know,

1105
00:48:49.239 --> 00:48:53.239
first self realization, as we mentioned the self awareness, realizing

1106
00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:55.679
who you are, what you need, all that stuff. Then

1107
00:48:55.719 --> 00:48:58.559
you move into alignment right, making sure you're always operating

1108
00:48:58.559 --> 00:49:00.559
from that place as much as possible. You're filling your

1109
00:49:00.559 --> 00:49:03.800
own cup, listening to your intuition. All that stuff is foundation.

1110
00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:06.639
Then you move into actualization right, so as you grow

1111
00:49:06.679 --> 00:49:09.719
in life, you accumulate success, wealth, skills, et cetera. And

1112
00:49:09.800 --> 00:49:12.880
the fourth point is transcendence. You can actually pay those

1113
00:49:12.920 --> 00:49:15.880
things forward and help others. So that's really my focus

1114
00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:16.599
these days.

1115
00:49:16.880 --> 00:49:19.079
I love that and you're coming back on my podcast.

1116
00:49:19.159 --> 00:49:20.920
Then you can run for me, but you can hide.

1117
00:49:20.920 --> 00:49:24.280
I'm pretty fast to Neil. Thank you so much for

1118
00:49:24.320 --> 00:49:26.199
being who you are, for putting this beautiful book in

1119
00:49:26.199 --> 00:49:27.719
the world, doing the work that you're doing, for coming

1120
00:49:27.719 --> 00:49:30.559
on working on purpose. A delight to know you and

1121
00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:31.280
share your work.

1122
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:32.840
Thank you so much for having me.

1123
00:49:33.400 --> 00:49:35.559
Very welcome listeners and viewers. You are going to want

1124
00:49:35.559 --> 00:49:37.920
to know more about to Nail Miller, the work she

1125
00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:42.519
does as a management consultant or psychologists, and her latest book,

1126
00:49:42.519 --> 00:49:44.440
The Flourishing effects, and you can see her at two

1127
00:49:44.440 --> 00:49:47.440
different places, just two different websites. What is your personal site?

1128
00:49:47.440 --> 00:49:49.679
That's her name to Nail Miller dot com. Let me

1129
00:49:49.760 --> 00:49:50.360
spell that for.

1130
00:49:50.360 --> 00:49:52.480
You T N I L.

1131
00:49:52.679 --> 00:49:57.159
L Emiller dot com. And then also her site Experience

1132
00:49:57.239 --> 00:50:01.239
and Transformation dot com. Last week we missed in a

1133
00:50:01.320 --> 00:50:03.159
life show the show. Last week we were on are

1134
00:50:03.199 --> 00:50:06.800
with doctor Ross Blankenship, an organizational psychologist, executive coach, and

1135
00:50:06.840 --> 00:50:09.480
a lecturer of the University of Virginia. We talked about

1136
00:50:09.559 --> 00:50:12.480
his book Everyday Leadership, A Guide to Developing your Mindset

1137
00:50:12.519 --> 00:50:15.039
as a Leader. He shared his perspective on the basic

1138
00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:17.519
behavior as leaders are responsible for and how a leadership

1139
00:50:17.559 --> 00:50:20.840
mindset can be developed to be more effective. Next week,

1140
00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:23.639
we'll be on the air with Patricia Graborik talking about

1141
00:50:23.679 --> 00:50:26.159
her new book Leading for Wellness, How to create a

1142
00:50:26.199 --> 00:50:29.280
team culture where everyone thrives. See you there and remember,

1143
00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:31.119
work is one of the best adventures and means of

1144
00:50:31.119 --> 00:50:33.800
realizing our potential and making the impact we crave. It

1145
00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:35.559
can give us the opportunity to do business in a

1146
00:50:35.559 --> 00:50:38.280
way that betters the world. So let's work on purpose.

1147
00:50:41.199 --> 00:50:43.840
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to

1148
00:50:43.880 --> 00:50:47.519
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,

1149
00:50:47.639 --> 00:50:50.880
each week on W four C. Why Together, We'll create

1150
00:50:50.920 --> 00:50:55.000
a world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires and passion

1151
00:50:55.079 --> 00:50:58.119
performance and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the

1152
00:50:58.199 --> 00:51:01.480
meaning and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work

1153
00:51:01.639 --> 00:51:02.280
on Purpose.