Feb. 12, 2025

The Flexibility Imperative: Essential in Creating a Destination Workplace that Unleashes Potential

The Flexibility Imperative: Essential in Creating a Destination Workplace that Unleashes Potential

Flexibility isn’t just an employee benefit -- it’s a strategic imperative that drives productivity, profitability, and innovation. It’s resisted as an operational standard when leaders mistakenly believe it reduces engagement, innovation, or culture....

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Flexibility isn’t just an employee benefit -- it’s a strategic imperative that drives productivity, profitability, and innovation. It’s resisted as an operational standard when leaders mistakenly believe it reduces engagement, innovation, or culture. This conventional thinking limits both the organizational results and the individual potential of the employee. What’s often missing is an actionable framework, which when well implemented, positions your organization as a “Destination Workplace.”

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WEBVTT

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The topics and opinions express in the following show are

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solely those of the hosts and their guests and not

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those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We

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Radio or its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments

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should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for

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choosing W FOURCY Radio.

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What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the

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answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose

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at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their

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lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization

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that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their

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highest potential. Business can be such a force for good

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in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide

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guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we

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all want working on Purpose. Now here's your host, doctor

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Elise Cortez.

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Welcome back to the Working on a Purpose program, which

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has been brought to you with passion and price since

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February of twenty fifteen. Thanks for tuning in this again

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this week. Great to have you. I'm your host, doctor

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Elise Cortes. If we've not met before and you don't

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know me, I'm an organizational psychologist, management consultant, local therapist,

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speaker and author. My team and I at gusto Now

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help companies to enliveen and fortify their operations by building

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a dynamic, high performance culture and fortifying their operations by

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building by activating meaning and purpose. And did you know

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that inspired employees outperform their satisfied peers by a factor

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of two point twenty five to one. In other words,

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inspiration is good for the bottom line. You can learn

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more about us and how we can work together at

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gustodashnow dot com or my personal site at Lascortes dot com.

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Getting in today's program, I'm very happy to bring you.

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Men are Swilem Moraris. She's the founder, president, and CEO

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of the Diversity and Flexibility Alliance, a think tank that

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collaborates with organizations to transform organizational cultures. She is a

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member of the President's Council of Cornell Women in the

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International Women's Forum. Her work has helped hundreds of organizations

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implement successful flexibility initiatives that drive measurable business results. She

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is the author of the Flexibility paradigm, Humanizing the Workplace

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for Productivity, Profitability, and Possibility, which we'll be talking about today.

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In particular, we'll address why the workforce craves flexibility, the

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business case for implementing it, how to use the flex

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success framework created to make it work for your organization.

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She judged today from the Potomacmarland Manar, Welcome to Working

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on Purpose.

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Thank you, happy to be here. Thank you, Braving.

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I you're very welcome.

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I think your work is critical and I loved reading

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every single last word of this beautiful book you put

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into the world. I am a huge fan and a proponent.

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I've been saying a few things that you've been saying like.

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This for years.

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However, your book is chock full of research. I mean,

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if after somebody reads your book they are not convinced

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to embrace flexibility, I don't know what to do for him.

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Manar, Yeah, well, I agree, oh hardly. I think that

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it was luckily timely. I think right now it is

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a good time to be having this conversation, and I

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think it's one at every organization, and I love the

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idea of, you know, working on purpose. It's a bit

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of a part of the structure that I talk about

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really that I.

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Know and I want to get to something that I

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think is really really special and promising. But first, let's

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start about really where this whole came from your own

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experience with flexibility and how it shaped your career and

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really how it contributed to you starting the alliance in

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the first place.

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Yeah, we say that I have both a personal and

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a professional journey with flexibility. Really came out of my

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own need for flexibility early in my career when I

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was a litigator and I had my first son twenty

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three years ago and really wanted to go on a

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reduced hour schedule, and that it wasn't necessarily as popular

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back then as it has become more prevalent today, and

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so I really had to kind of chart my own

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path around what that would look like with being able

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to navigate a career one that I was passionate about

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not kind of giving up the kind of work I

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was doing, and then also fulfilling what I wanted to

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do in my personal life. And so that charted me

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down that path of looking at flexibility, getting the kind

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of flexibility, and then starting to see it work in

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real time, Like I was seeing the way that I

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could continue to be a good contributor the work that

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I was able to do, and slowly, over time people

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would come up to me and say, if I could

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have done it the way that you did it, I

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wouldn't have left. And I thought, why can't we create

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that within organizations? Why can't we make it work in

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the ways that I was able to make it work.

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Yeah, and I'm down for making that work. I can

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tell you I don't have quite the same story as

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you do, but I can tell you that the very

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reason that I have a company of my own is

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because when I had my daughter in two thousand and three,

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I didn't want to do the thing where I dropped

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her off at daycare at seven o'clock and I picked

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her up at seven o'clock.

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I did not want to do that.

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So that is what would maybe ultimately start my own business.

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So I had control of my time and my calendar

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and how and when I worked.

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Yeah, And I think a lot of that is around autonomy. Right.

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People will say, oh, is it about work life balance?

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Let's say, no, it really wasn't necessarily about balance as

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much as it was about how do I have the

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autonomy to be able to work in the way that

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I can work and fit within the things that I

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want to do?

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Yeah?

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Yeah.

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The other thing that's just there's so many things about

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your book that are just so compelling. But I appreciate

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that you go on to say that this idea of

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flexibility is not new. It's actually it's a culture change.

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But let's talk a little bit about just kind of

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a bit of you know, how it's emerged as of late.

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Yeah.

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So I think COVID obviously gave a lot of organizations

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a grand experiment in the way that working flexibly and

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working from home because we had to so that. But

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that was around for a long time, right. There were

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organizations way before COVID that were one hundred percent remote

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or virtual. There were organizations that were offering certain ways

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of telecommuting and other virtual work. But I really what

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I think it did was it forced those who never

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would have thought they would do it, both whether it

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was leaders orizations as a whole, to have to embrace flexibility.

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I remember about two weeks before COVID I was presenting

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to a group of managing partners and law firm chairs

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and we were talking about the business case of flexibility.

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I could barely get through kind of a third of

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my deck. So everybody was talking about, you know, could

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this work? Does it work? And suddenly in two weeks

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everybody had to make it work. And so I think

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that's what COVID did for us is really not bring

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in a new concept, but it proved a concept that

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had been around for a while that this could actually work,

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and we could continue to be productive and profitable, and

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we could continue to connect using flexibility as a format.

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Yeah, I think there's so many things that came from COVID,

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And I appreciate how you also talk about too, how

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much the workforce has evolved. It changed and certainly evolved,

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and I think the pandemic, and you talk about this

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in your book two has greatly contributed to that. So

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this idea of it, of it offering you a time

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of great reflection. I really believe in that if you

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could say a few things about kind of what's been

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happening for the workforce, what is it that they're craving

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when it comes to flexibility in the general workforce.

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Yeah.

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I think one thing that we saw really during the

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pandemic was that it didn't just change how we work,

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but it changed people's expectations from work. For the first

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time ever, what was happening in the world was reflective

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in what was happening in people's daily lives. Employers couldn't

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unsee what was happening with their people, and so I

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really think that changed fundamentally the people who I mean,

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I've talked to organizations and say, the people who walked

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out in March to go when everybody had to go

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home are not the same people walking back into your offices,

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like we can't go through something like COVID and say

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we didn't fundamentally also change. And so that idea of

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changing those expectations of wait a second. You know, for

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a long period of time, people said we couldn't work

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this way, but we held up and held our organizations

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together because we found a way to work successfully flexibly.

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And it's a little disingenuous for us to now feel

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like now that we you know, when you needed us too,

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you told us we could work this way, and now

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you no longer and need us too, and suddenly you

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want everybody back in the offices right like there's a

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disconnect there. And so I think it really kind of

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opened a lot of people's eyes to what was possible

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for them in the workplace and thus wanting them to

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they want to see that carried through mm hmm.

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In my first book that I wrote, which is called

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Purpose Ignited, one of the things that I said in

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that book, mein aar was that I really I remember

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watching out my bay window groups of people from the

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neighborhood and I called them moving caravans and reconnection. And

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the adults were slauntering along sitting on something, and the

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kids were frolic along on the on their tresh cycles

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and bikes, and the pets came.

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Along and it was joyous.

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Yeah, and so and now you want to stuff all

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that back in the bottle and put all that back

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and make all that go away. And you know, you

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don't get to go to your kids' games anymore, and

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you don't actual to get to go to the gym

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anymore because you don't have time, and because there's the

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commute instead. And so the evolution of why the workforce

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craves this flexibility, to me, is just so abundantly clear it.

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Is, and I think that there are you know, there

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are ways to make it work, right, like there were

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times or encovied where what we had to was done,

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and I think that there are new ways of saying

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how do we engage how do we give people the autonomy?

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We can do it within guardrails right there. I think

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policies and practices we can put into place, but really,

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how do we give people the kind of autonomy they

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need and at the same time, how do we continue

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to build that culture and the engagement and the connection

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and collaboration that's so important also for organizations to succeed.

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And I really think that's sort of the magic, if

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you will, of how do we make this work is

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to implement it in a way that is intentional.

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Yeah, and I totally want to talk about that.

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We'll talk about that in the third segment for sure,

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But I want to also really help help our listeners

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understand just really the need here and one of the

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other things that you see in your book that I've

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also seen elsewhere too, of course, is part of what's

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driving this workforce need and interesting for flexibility is the

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new the gen y and the gen z who will

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comprise what is it, seventy four percent of the workplace

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by twenty thirty, and what they want from work?

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Could you talk a little bit about that?

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Yeah, I mean I think they want flexibility. If we

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look at for the first time, we have five generations

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in the workplace, right, and they all want that kind

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of flexibility. Doesn't mean that they don't want to go

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into an office, right, It just means that it is

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ways of how do they make it work? If you

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look at the percentage of caregivers I talk about flexibility

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and say, you know, in order for it to work,

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you do want to degender, deparent, destigmatize. It can't just

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be seen as for women. It can't just be seen

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as something that's just for caregivers. It's everybody wants and

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need it. But it's not one size fits all. So

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how do you think about the way that we can

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fit the needs of our talent and adopt what I

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call that yes and mindset? Right, Like, yes, we can

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be productive in the word workplace, and we can also

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be productive working virtually. Yes we can be on a

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reduced hour schedule, and yes, we can be fully committed

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to the work that we're doing, Like there's lots of

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things that we have to be thinking about in the

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ways in which we adopt flexibility.

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Yeah.

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And the other thing that you also said too about

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I think that the generation this has come from my memory,

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so please correct me if I don't have this right.

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Is you know that they want to have room for

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the rest of their lives. They want to work hard

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and have a career, but they also want to have

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room for the rest of their lives. And whereas maybe

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some of the previous generations see working long hours in

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the office was the way to get promoted, and they

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also want to be able to have a full life,

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to be able to ensoy their friends. And since they're

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digital natives, they relate to the way that we can

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work very differently.

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Yeah, and I think that is the idea that they

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embrace technology. Right. The technology is such that we can

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connect virtually, we can figure out how to collaborate, we

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can do all of the things that create a thriving workplace,

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and we can create some autonomy to ourselves to say, look,

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if I can cut down on a commute one day,

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and I can get one day to work from home,

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or I can get two days to work from home.

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That makes a difference for me to plan a very

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full life. And so how do we leverage technology so

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that we're meeting both needs? Mm hmmm hmm.

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I think it's really interesting too, as you know, you've

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gone on to say that you know, there is this

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belief in organizations and leaders that we're working from anything

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but in the office. It detracts from culture, and of

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course you say culture isn't isn't a place. And I

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also really appreciate your focus on what that speaks to

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is a bias for presenteeism, which I also have talked

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about because you say a bit about this idea of presenteeism.

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Yeah, I mean I think that the idea that FaceTime

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is an indicator of performance is really not It's not true. Right,

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we can be we have all of this technology at

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our fingertips. People can be in the office and I said,

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you don't know what they're doing, right. You can have

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people who are planning their next trip, they're shopping, they're

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watching sport, like they could be doing anything. They have

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a highway to anything in front of them through a computer.

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And so the idea that you just see somebody isn't

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really how you measure whether somebody is working, You're really

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looking at output and impact, right, what is the output

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that they're producing, what's the impact they're having on the

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organization and the impact that they have on colleagues and

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all of the things that it takes to be successful.

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And so just to say, oh, well, just because someone's

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in the office, that means that they must be productive

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isn't really the standard that we should all be, you know,

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measuring against when we think about who's a productive and

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who's who's working. When we think about that in terms

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of culture, I think there's a lot of things that

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contribute to culture. Culture is about, you know, who you

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are as an organization, what are your expectations, what are

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your values, what's your mission? What's your purpose? As we're

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talking about purpose is being an important part, there's a

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lot of things that contribute to culture and that should

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that should be infused in everything that you do. That's

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not just in the office. That's in how people treat

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each other, how people interact with each other. There's lots

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of things that contribute to culture. But it isn't necessarily

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just the four walls.

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M Yeah, I'm pretty convinced, not just I mean it

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certainly I knew it before I read a book, but

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now I really know it because I've read a book.

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But this idea that flexibility really is here to stay.

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I love how you see. You have a lot of citations,

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a lot of statistics in your book, and you talk

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about a recent survey from the Conference Board shows that

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among US workers, sixty five percent said that having workplace

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flexibility was the most important non salary compensation element of

316
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all bonuses generous time off and so on.

317
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That is powerful, Yeah, And I mean I think there

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are a lot of been studies since then too, showing that,

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you know, people would be willing to take a pay

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cut for a certain portion of flexibility in terms of

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not that they would do that within their current jobs,

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but the idea that they place a value on flexibility right,

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that they would be that that would be something that

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they would be attracted to in terms of going to

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an organization. So I say, it's a talent retention tool.

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It's a talent recruitment tool. It derives productivity, a drives

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engagement for people to be able to have the kind

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of flexibility that they need. But there's definitely a business case.

329
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And then I say to you know in the book,

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we talk a lot about you should build your own

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business case. I think a lot of people talk about policies,

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and we say, before you get to the step of

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what should our policy be, you want to be building

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your business case for you as an organization, to say

335
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why is it important for us to offer this, Why

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does it matter for our people? What can it do

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for us? Why is it important? What's the value to

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our bottom line? So you're building that flexibility on a

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strong foundation.

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Mm hmm. Well, and furthermore, you go on to say

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in your book, unlike salaries, bonuses, healthcare or retirement plans,

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workplace flexibility is the rare employee benefit that can save

343
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rather than drain financial resources, giving an advantage to companies

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that plan proactively.

345
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Wow, I mean that's powerful.

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Yeah. I mean, like you can think about whether it's

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office space that they're saving on, whether it's other things.

348
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But it's also around what are the what's the money

349
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that I'm saving from talent that's not walking out the

350
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door because they're going somewhere else because they don't have

351
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the kind of flexibility. So I talk about flexibility as

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being pretty low in terms of the cost A low

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cost benefit that you can provide that can benefit everybody.

354
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Right on that note, let's grab our first break. I'm

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your host, doctor Release Cortes. We're on the air with

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Manar Murrads. She's the founder, president, and CEO of the

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Diversity and Flexibility Alliance, a think tank that collaborates with

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organizations to transform organizational cultures. We've been talking about why

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the workforce crave flexibility. After the break, we're going to

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get into the business case for flexibility and talk about

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what she calls holistic flexibility.

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We'll be right back.

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Doctor Release Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

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and purpose and inspirationational speaker and author. She helps companies

365
00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:06.519
visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

366
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leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

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commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

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00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:16.599
a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her

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00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:19.920
at Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

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your employees working on purpose. This is working on purpose

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00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:32.119
with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or

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00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:34.920
to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to

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a lease a LISEE at Elisecortes dot com. Now back

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00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:41.759
to working on Purpose.

375
00:17:46.759 --> 00:17:48.480
Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to working

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on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as I too,

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00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:53.480
am dedicated to help them create a world where people

378
00:17:53.480 --> 00:17:56.000
realize their potential at work, are led by inspirational leaders

379
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that help them find and contribute their greatness. And we

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do business at Betters the world researching and writing my

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own books. So the last one came out in marsh

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of twenty twenty three. It's called a Great Revitalization. How

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activating meaning and purpose can radically in liven your business.

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And I wrote to help leaders understand today's workforce wants

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and needs and then offer twenty two best practices for

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you to fold into your culture to help create that

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for them. You can find my books on Amazon or

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my personal site at leastcoretest dot com if you are

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just now joining us. My guest is Manamradis. She's the

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author of the Flexibility Paradigm, Humanizing the Workplace for productivity, profitability,

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and possibility. So now let's get into that business case here.

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I think it's pretty fascinating here. When you started to

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talk about just some of the research around this providing

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pretty compelling evidence for it being, as you said before,

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a driver of talent, productivity, diversity, engagement, profitability, all these

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sort of things. So let's stick into a few of

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those and really help them help our listeners and viewers

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understand just the power the possibility of flexibility.

399
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Yeah, I mean, I think starting with who your talent is, right,

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attention to who your people are within the organization, and

401
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even polling and get engaging in surveys and talking to

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your people and saying why do you know? What does

403
00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:13.119
flexibility mean to you? Why does it matter to you?

404
00:19:13.559 --> 00:19:17.119
What's important? Is a really good first step, right, because

405
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I think you have to build for the workforce you have,

406
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not the workforce you used to have, And so a

407
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lot of times leaders can get stuck in the well

408
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I did it this way or I had this, or

409
00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:30.000
this is not how it is, and not understanding we

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are constantly you have a constantly evolving workplace. You have

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five generations of talent in the workplace and their needs

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are going to be different, and so paying attention to

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your people is an important first step of saying like

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what and then looking at, well, what does flexibility make

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possible for us as an organization if we think about

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even when we think about where we recruit. For a

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lot of organizations, they might say, look, I can actually

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recruit from a much wider base than I used to

419
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if I was just tied to everybody has to be

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in the office. Suddenly the talent pool opens up for me.

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And so that from a recruitment perspective is a big

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driver for a lot of organizations to say, you know,

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who can I bring into the talent to the pool?

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Who can I retain? If I look at people, I

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would say, look at your regrettable losses. Who are the

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people that walked out the door? And where did they go?

427
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And what was it about wherever they went that was

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more compelling than having them stay within that or you

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know your organization. Or we talked about budgets right in

430
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terms of salaries, it's like, if we can't keep up

431
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from a perspective of where are the kinds of benefits

432
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we can offer that don't provide a high cost for us?

433
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And so maybe flexibility is something where we can offer

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that people place a lot of value on and would

435
00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:48.440
want to stay and make our organization more attractive for them.

436
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So I think from the business case, it's really looking

437
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at talent pool, looking at it as a recruitment, looking

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at it as a retention, looking at it as a

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driver of productivity. A lot of people will say, if

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I don't have to commute in for an hour, that's

441
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time I have that I can be more productive, and

442
00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:07.440
so looking at that as a perspective as well. So

443
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there's lots of ways to sort of build that business

444
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case for you internally as an organization.

445
00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:14.240
Yeah, a few things I want to echo that I

446
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got from your book Monar that I think are really

447
00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:18.839
worth pointing out. One is, you know, for many leaders

448
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who say that flexibility is they think if they're doing

449
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their employees a favor, it's a nice to have, And

450
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it was a pandemic era accommodation you say, And yeah,

451
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you go on to say, but really is it's a

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business imperative that quantifiably impacts your bottom line. And then

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if you go and look at some of these when

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you're serving your people, thinking about some of these benchmarks,

455
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how they might compare it to your workforce. You cite

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00:21:41.559 --> 00:21:44.680
twenty twenty two Future of Forum survey says that sixty

457
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eight percent of knowledge workers prefer hybrid work arrangements, which

458
00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:50.359
we'll talk about in a second. Seventy eight percent want

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location flexibility, and ninety five percent wants schedule flexibility. That

460
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is really hard not to pay attention to.

461
00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:02.160
Yeah, I think it goes to that idea of it's

462
00:22:02.200 --> 00:22:04.720
not one size fits all, right, that that idea of

463
00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:08.039
looking at what are the various forms of flexibility that

464
00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:11.000
people want and need? And for some I would say,

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even if you do some stay interviews, you can get

466
00:22:13.559 --> 00:22:18.000
to get into exactly what's keeping people within the organization.

467
00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:20.000
So when you look at those high percentages, you can

468
00:22:20.039 --> 00:22:21.920
see some of that as saying, well, if we are

469
00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:24.519
offering that, that's also keeping people in the organization.

470
00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:25.440
M M.

471
00:22:26.599 --> 00:22:28.079
I want to go a little bit deeper into the

472
00:22:28.079 --> 00:22:30.200
idea of diversity, because, as you said before, it's not

473
00:22:30.279 --> 00:22:33.039
just about you know, this is something for women. But

474
00:22:33.160 --> 00:22:34.960
I also really like that you talk about in your

475
00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:38.799
book how you know workforce flexibility promotes the idea of

476
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:42.240
really bringing in more people that really fit your organization

477
00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:46.160
from an age, race, ethnicity, gender, and ability vantage point.

478
00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:48.519
I think that's really important.

479
00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:49.839
I mean the other thing that I thought it was

480
00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:53.480
interesting on are just seeing recently that we're seeing increasingly

481
00:22:53.480 --> 00:22:55.799
a lot more like seventy plus year old people in

482
00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:58.400
the in the workplace. If you're going to make it

483
00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:00.480
too close to ninety five or one hundred, wouldn't you

484
00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:02.119
want to keep working in the first place. And then

485
00:23:02.119 --> 00:23:04.279
there's this other bit of for a lot of people,

486
00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:07.119
they're going to need to work just to keep you know, money,

487
00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:10.599
money coming in, and themselves supported. So the idea of

488
00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:13.119
diversity on that front really makes a lot of sense

489
00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:16.640
to appeal to more people across those different classes.

490
00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:19.000
Yeah, and I think that's an important piece. And if

491
00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:20.960
you look at some of the research too, to look

492
00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:23.960
at who wants to work in a flexible work environment

493
00:23:24.039 --> 00:23:27.119
and the impact that that can have on diversity. Also

494
00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:28.799
for some people who feel like, you know, there are

495
00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:31.799
people who feel like the office environment. I might thrive

496
00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:34.480
in that office environment, and for some people they feel

497
00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:37.000
like I get very drained in that office environment. And

498
00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:40.759
so having an opportunity where I can create greater psychological safety,

499
00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:43.440
where perhaps working from home gives that to me, or

500
00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:47.000
working you know, in that hybrid situation gives that to me,

501
00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:49.680
is an important piece. And then you look at you know,

502
00:23:49.720 --> 00:23:52.559
the impact on caregivers in the workplace, the impact on women,

503
00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:54.799
the impact on people of color. I think it's important

504
00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:58.720
to be looking across and the generational and age diversity

505
00:23:58.759 --> 00:24:00.519
that you were talking about, which is the idea of

506
00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:03.799
how do we create an environment where we can fit

507
00:24:03.880 --> 00:24:07.640
the needs of a you know, of a very diverse

508
00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:10.680
workplace that we have within our organizations to give them

509
00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:12.920
an opportunity to do the work that they want to

510
00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:15.160
do in an environment where they feel like they can thrive.

511
00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:16.400
Mm hmmm.

512
00:24:16.880 --> 00:24:19.400
And getting more specific too, when it comes to engagement

513
00:24:19.440 --> 00:24:22.440
being part of your your business. Your business case here

514
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:26.240
for flexibility pretty interesting. The work that you wrote in

515
00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:29.200
your book about how when you when you add flexibility

516
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:31.920
and now you've given your employees a sense of autonomy,

517
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:34.720
which is incredibly motivating for a lot of people. And

518
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:37.440
you're conveying you know, respect and trust that they will

519
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:39.599
do the work that they need to get done, which

520
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:42.319
also conveys that you you care about them as human beings.

521
00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:44.960
And all of these things are known to increase engagement.

522
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:47.599
Yeah, and I think that is an important One of

523
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:50.480
the things that I think COVID did too, was that

524
00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:54.000
we saw people as humans right, We couldn't. We couldn't

525
00:24:54.000 --> 00:24:56.359
now unsee the fact that people were going through a

526
00:24:56.440 --> 00:24:59.200
variety of things within their lives, all impacted in a

527
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:02.039
variety of differentferent ways. I would talk to leaders who

528
00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:03.839
would say, for the first time, I had to start

529
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:06.480
my meetings with one on a scale of one to ten,

530
00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:09.400
tell me how you're feeling. We didn't do that before.

531
00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:12.359
And I think that idea of seeing people not just

532
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:16.200
as employees but as people was an important piece that

533
00:25:16.279 --> 00:25:19.079
and I think it does drive that kind of engagement.

534
00:25:20.599 --> 00:25:22.559
But you know, and I think with all of that autonomy,

535
00:25:22.599 --> 00:25:26.000
I would say the opposite side of flexibility is responsibility.

536
00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:28.440
So it's not just that it's a free for all, right,

537
00:25:28.519 --> 00:25:32.200
it is. There's a lot of responsibility to make flexibility work.

538
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:34.559
That's on everybody. It's on the organization, it's on leaders,

539
00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:36.039
it's on individuals.

540
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:39.839
Yeah. Yeah, I think these other stats that you quote

541
00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:42.519
and then relate to some different terms that are being

542
00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:45.240
bountied about here or worth also sharing. You you also

543
00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:48.079
talk about how, of course the Gallops State of the

544
00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:51.160
Global Workplace twenty twenty three report shows that only twenty

545
00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:53.839
three percent of the global workforce, or twenty one percent

546
00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:56.640
in the United States is engaged. Fifty eight percent is

547
00:25:56.680 --> 00:26:00.480
not engaged, which we also call quiet quitting, teen percent

548
00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:03.480
are actively disengaged, which is loud quitting. I think it's

549
00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:05.880
really important for listeners and viewers to really take in

550
00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:08.880
those those figures and consider how they relate to their

551
00:26:08.920 --> 00:26:09.640
own workforce.

552
00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:12.720
I do, And I also think that's the idea of

553
00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:15.079
really surveying. We talk in the book about kind of

554
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:18.519
focus groups and surveying and talking to your people to

555
00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:21.279
understand what is it that they need from the workplace right,

556
00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:24.759
what drives them? What is when when we talk about engagement,

557
00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:27.920
what helps them feel more connected and engaged in that workplace?

558
00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:30.599
What are the things that we can be doing? And

559
00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:32.400
you know, and I think Gallup talks about it too,

560
00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:35.519
is in terms of what are the responsibility on managers

561
00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:37.880
that drive a lot of engagement and how are they

562
00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:40.640
relating to their people and talking to them and helping

563
00:26:40.680 --> 00:26:42.599
to drive those engagement scores.

564
00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:46.640
And then another aspect of the business case that I

565
00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:49.680
really find fascinating and alluring men are is you know,

566
00:26:49.720 --> 00:26:52.920
the idea of sustainability in the carbon footprint of really

567
00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:55.480
some of the numbers you code in your book about

568
00:26:55.920 --> 00:26:59.160
how this really how when you have a flexibility culture,

569
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:02.559
how it packs that Just you say, in twenty eleven,

570
00:27:02.880 --> 00:27:06.200
the existing two point nine million US virtual workers saved

571
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:10.440
and estimated three three hundred and ninety million gallons of gasoline,

572
00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:13.920
preventing the release of three point eight million tons of

573
00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:17.920
greenhouse gases annually. You know, this is this is incredible impact.

574
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:19.720
Yeah, so we talk about it. We have to talk

575
00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:20.960
about the environment too, And I think a lot of

576
00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:23.200
people don't think about that necessarily or talk about it

577
00:27:23.240 --> 00:27:25.759
as much when it comes to flexibility. But I would say,

578
00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:28.440
what is flexibility doing for organizations? What is it doing

579
00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:30.240
for people? What is it doing for the world? Right?

580
00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:33.119
And when we think about that idea of the impact

581
00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:35.279
it has on the environment, what can we be doing

582
00:27:35.319 --> 00:27:38.319
by just even offering two days a work a week

583
00:27:38.440 --> 00:27:40.559
of people working from home? And how does that cut

584
00:27:40.599 --> 00:27:43.319
down on the impact of the environment, you know?

585
00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:45.119
And I like how as you also point out, that

586
00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:49.240
really helps organizations to demonstrate their commitment to social responsibility, right,

587
00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:51.079
And I think you know, if you have an ESG

588
00:27:51.160 --> 00:27:54.440
program in place, that's certainly a place that you can

589
00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:56.799
start to make further business case for this.

590
00:27:56.799 --> 00:27:57.440
This sort of thing.

591
00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:01.440
Yeah. Absolutely, And that's that piece of saying, what does

592
00:28:01.480 --> 00:28:05.279
flexibility touch within our organization? I think then that's why

593
00:28:05.480 --> 00:28:07.119
we talk about it as that business and pair I

594
00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:09.079
talk about it as a business imperative. It's not just

595
00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:12.559
a benefit, and it's not really just siloed in what

596
00:28:12.599 --> 00:28:14.720
it touches it. It impacts a lot of things within

597
00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:15.720
your organization.

598
00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:19.400
Yeah, and sometimes these things can feel Even though I

599
00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:22.160
just quoted another really interesting statistic from your book, I

600
00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:24.039
think this next one that I want to share, relative

601
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:29.799
to the sustainability pieces, is amazing from the Global Workforce Analytics.

602
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:34.880
It states that, based on their estimates, if those with

603
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:38.160
the work from home compatible job and a desire to

604
00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:41.279
work remotely did so just half of the time, the

605
00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:44.599
greenhouse gas reduction would be the equivalent to taking the

606
00:28:44.759 --> 00:28:49.160
entire New York State workforce off the road. These estimates

607
00:28:49.039 --> 00:28:53.039
assume seventy five percent reduction in driving on the telework

608
00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:56.680
work days. That if you get your head around that,

609
00:28:56.680 --> 00:28:58.559
that's pretty compelling to Yeah.

610
00:28:58.640 --> 00:29:00.759
I mean, and we're seeing certainly that as we look

611
00:29:00.759 --> 00:29:03.599
at in the federal government being called everybody being called

612
00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:05.599
back into the office, and that's just the impact on

613
00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:08.400
traffic in the environment right now in Washington, DC we're

614
00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:09.599
based Yeah.

615
00:29:09.559 --> 00:29:11.640
Yeah, yeah, well, and so then you go on to

616
00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:13.960
say the answer to all this is holistic flexibility, So

617
00:29:14.039 --> 00:29:14.799
let's talk about that.

618
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:18.480
Yeah. So, I think that part of the holistic flexibility

619
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:20.640
piece of it is it's not just one size fits all, right,

620
00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:24.119
it' said Covid gave us a great experiment, grand experiment

621
00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:26.880
with working virtually. But there are lots of different forms

622
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:30.279
of flexibility that are possible. You cited some of the

623
00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:35.119
percentages around what kinds of flexibility people want, and so

624
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:37.519
I think it's important when you look as an organization

625
00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:40.759
to say, what are the kinds of flexibility we can offer. So, yes,

626
00:29:40.839 --> 00:29:43.640
we can offer some form of whether it's hybrid or

627
00:29:43.640 --> 00:29:46.359
some form of virtual work that we allow for people,

628
00:29:46.839 --> 00:29:49.880
But there are certainly positions that don't necessarily lend itself

629
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:51.880
to that attack. You know, if you have a receptionist,

630
00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:54.880
well they can't necessarily work from home. There are other

631
00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:57.400
forms of flexibility you could offer. You could whether it's

632
00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:01.640
reduced hours, part time work, or it's shifting time. A

633
00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:05.400
lot of people have an you know, want the kind

634
00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:09.000
of time flexibility. So the hours are shifted. Somebody could

635
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:12.400
come in early, leave early, come in later, leave later.

636
00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:15.759
That shifting of things. There's lots of different forms of flexibility.

637
00:30:15.799 --> 00:30:19.839
So from my perspective, it's offer a lot. You know,

638
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:22.440
do audits on the jobs that you have within your

639
00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:25.359
organization and then say here are the different kinds of

640
00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:27.839
flexibility we can offer, and this is what it would

641
00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:28.200
look like.

642
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:32.440
Mm hmm. I also appreciate that you are you're all

643
00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:34.720
saying looking at you know, where people do their work,

644
00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:36.400
when they do their work, how they do their work.

645
00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:38.480
You know, it's it's just there's so much that you

646
00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:41.759
could actually really consider to improve the to improve it.

647
00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:43.720
And I like how you say that, you know, at

648
00:30:43.720 --> 00:30:46.400
the Alliance you define hybrid work as bringing together the

649
00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:48.599
best of who we are in person and the best

650
00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:50.440
of who we are unline to equal the best of

651
00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:51.839
who we will be in the future.

652
00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:55.200
Yeah, So that it goes to really around how are

653
00:30:55.240 --> 00:30:58.480
we being intentional As people were kind of coming out

654
00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:00.720
of COVID and organizations were come out of COVID and

655
00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:03.319
looking at all, right, where do we go from here?

656
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:05.759
What do we think about for hybrid it said, Really

657
00:31:05.799 --> 00:31:08.759
it's taking for organizations that used to be one hundred

658
00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:11.640
percent in person, said what was good about that? What

659
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:14.119
were some of the things that really were effective and

660
00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:16.160
what you missed that you want to bring into this

661
00:31:16.240 --> 00:31:19.279
new hybrid environment. And when you were working virtually, what

662
00:31:19.400 --> 00:31:21.640
was good about that? What were the benefits there that

663
00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:24.400
you want to bring that back into the hybrid environment.

664
00:31:24.519 --> 00:31:28.480
So it was a lot of designing around how do

665
00:31:28.599 --> 00:31:31.400
we design this new workplace to say if we can

666
00:31:31.480 --> 00:31:34.200
do the best of both worlds. Now we have an opportunity,

667
00:31:34.240 --> 00:31:37.240
to the extent of organizations that were embracing hybrid to say,

668
00:31:37.240 --> 00:31:39.960
how do we be intentional about what does it look like?

669
00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:41.839
And I talk in the book we might go into

670
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:44.480
this conversation around the return on experience, like what was

671
00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:47.759
the benefit of being all together? And then what were

672
00:31:47.799 --> 00:31:50.400
really good about being able to work virtually? And how

673
00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:52.640
do we design this new workplace to get the best

674
00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:53.839
of both of those worlds?

675
00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:57.839
And we will discuss that after the break. Let's grab

676
00:31:57.880 --> 00:32:00.160
our last one. I'm your host doctor really's quartet us

677
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:02.599
we br on the Eric Manar Morales. She's the founder,

678
00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:05.960
president and CEO of the Diversity and Flexibility Alliance, a

679
00:32:06.039 --> 00:32:09.720
think tank that collaborates with organizations to transform organizational cultures.

680
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:12.000
We've been talking in this last segment about what it

681
00:32:12.079 --> 00:32:14.599
is that the workforce really wants in the way of flexibility.

682
00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:16.920
After the break, we're going to talk about how to

683
00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:20.880
embrace this new workforce by implementing her flex success Framework.

684
00:32:20.960 --> 00:32:21.680
We'll be right back.

685
00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:40.799
Doctor Elise Cortez is a management consultant specializing in meaning

686
00:32:40.839 --> 00:32:44.640
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies

687
00:32:44.759 --> 00:32:48.519
visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

688
00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:52.599
leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

689
00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:55.880
commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

690
00:32:55.880 --> 00:32:58.640
a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her

691
00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:01.960
at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

692
00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:10.759
your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose

693
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:14.119
with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or

694
00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:16.960
to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to

695
00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:22.519
Alise A Lisee at elisecortes dot com. Now back to

696
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:23.799
working on Purpose.

697
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:31.440
Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to Working

698
00:33:31.480 --> 00:33:33.960
on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor at Elise Cortes. I

699
00:33:34.000 --> 00:33:36.039
mentioned in the last break that my latest book came

700
00:33:36.079 --> 00:33:38.880
out in March of twenty twenty three, called a Great Revitalization.

701
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:41.039
What I did for you is I created a very

702
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:43.519
simple three page assessment that you can pull off my

703
00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:47.200
website gustodashnow dot com to help you understand the extent

704
00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:50.799
to which your organization is providing what the workforce wants today.

705
00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:53.839
If you are just joining me now, my guest is

706
00:33:53.920 --> 00:33:57.640
Manada Muradi. She's the author of the Flexibility Paradigm, Humanizing

707
00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:02.160
the Workplace for productivity, profitability and possibility. So for this

708
00:34:02.359 --> 00:34:05.519
last segment here, I wanted to get into a little

709
00:34:05.640 --> 00:34:07.559
bit about how we can start to pull this off.

710
00:34:07.559 --> 00:34:10.239
But before we do, I do want to reiterate a

711
00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:12.679
little bit of what you said before about really how

712
00:34:13.559 --> 00:34:16.599
many organizations many of the leaders are really pinding for

713
00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:18.280
you know, when do we get to go back full

714
00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:21.840
time to the office, this idea of returning to office

715
00:34:21.880 --> 00:34:25.440
to work, and you've really talked already before about you

716
00:34:25.480 --> 00:34:26.719
know that workplace is gone.

717
00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:30.320
Yeah, yeah, you know I think that the I say,

718
00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:32.840
the way that nine to eleven forever changed how we travel,

719
00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:35.239
I think COVID will forever change how we work, and

720
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:37.920
so really kind of it's not around how do we

721
00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:40.239
go back, but how do we move forward? What do

722
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:42.800
we look at? What were the lessons learned, what were

723
00:34:42.840 --> 00:34:45.159
the things? How do we embrace change? How do we

724
00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:48.159
think about technology? How do we think about innovation? And

725
00:34:48.199 --> 00:34:50.039
I think a lot of people say we want to

726
00:34:50.039 --> 00:34:52.639
be innovative, we want to embrace innovation, but then they

727
00:34:52.639 --> 00:34:54.679
don't want to change, and so you can't have innovation

728
00:34:54.760 --> 00:34:58.880
without change, and so that idea of going back doesn't

729
00:34:58.920 --> 00:35:02.039
seem to be doesn't work. I think it is around

730
00:35:02.079 --> 00:35:05.360
how do we move forward with getting the best at

731
00:35:05.400 --> 00:35:08.599
of all of that we've learned and think really about

732
00:35:08.639 --> 00:35:10.159
what does that future of work mean for us as

733
00:35:10.159 --> 00:35:10.840
an organization?

734
00:35:11.480 --> 00:35:14.840
Mm hmm. You had mentioned earlier kind of queuing up

735
00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:16.760
the idea of talking and forget what exactly what the

736
00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:20.760
phrase was, but it was something about the experience would

737
00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:21.639
tell me.

738
00:35:21.559 --> 00:35:23.679
About that return on experience?

739
00:35:24.679 --> 00:35:25.760
Thank you? Yeah.

740
00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:28.400
So we say for organizations or leaders, I'm like, if

741
00:35:28.400 --> 00:35:33.360
you are calling people back into the office, so what happens,

742
00:35:33.800 --> 00:35:35.960
like what is it that you want? And can we

743
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:40.679
think about how do we intentionally then design and experience

744
00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:44.119
so that people can have that right. So the idea

745
00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:47.480
is that if you're just calling people back. But mandates

746
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:51.440
don't tend to work because what people are looking for

747
00:35:51.679 --> 00:35:54.760
is okay, if you're telling me to do an hour

748
00:35:54.840 --> 00:35:57.440
and let's say, if we're just talking about virtual versus

749
00:35:57.440 --> 00:35:59.440
you know, be working in the office. If you're telling

750
00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:02.079
me to do an our commute and you're telling me

751
00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:04.519
that I have to be what is what is the

752
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:07.480
value I'm getting from being in the office, and how

753
00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:11.480
do you incentivize that over just saying we just want

754
00:36:11.480 --> 00:36:14.039
people back in the office, right back in the office,

755
00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:17.320
so that what happens? And how do you create intentional

756
00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:21.519
design so that people experience what is there are real

757
00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:24.400
benefits for being in an office environment? I don't you know?

758
00:36:24.440 --> 00:36:27.320
And I think when I talk about flexibility within the

759
00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:30.119
book and for organizations that are in bracing hybrid as

760
00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:33.159
you say, there are benefits for those in person interactions,

761
00:36:33.239 --> 00:36:35.760
and there are benefits for virtual like how do you

762
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:40.239
create opportunities for connection collaboration when people are together in

763
00:36:40.280 --> 00:36:43.639
person and when people are together virtually, Like we have

764
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:47.679
to be intentional about designing those things. And so both

765
00:36:47.800 --> 00:36:50.000
organizations kind of creating that roe And then I say,

766
00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:52.239
for individuals, look, if you're going to go into the office,

767
00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:54.559
create an roe for yourself, Like, don't if you go

768
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:57.159
into the office and you shut the door and you're

769
00:36:57.239 --> 00:36:59.960
just head down and working, then you're really just telecommuting

770
00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:01.719
from the office, so you don't get the benefits of

771
00:37:01.719 --> 00:37:04.159
what it means to be in an office environment. So

772
00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:07.639
being intentional even designing your own day to say, the

773
00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:09.719
days I'm working in the office, I'm doing this, The

774
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:11.760
days I'm working from home, I'm doing this, Like how

775
00:37:11.800 --> 00:37:14.280
do I get the benefit of where I the environment

776
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:16.760
that I'm in at all times?

777
00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:20.119
I think one of the things that really draws me

778
00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:22.880
to your work and really aligns me to your work,

779
00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:25.639
Manar is what you say, is you see flexibility can

780
00:37:25.639 --> 00:37:29.400
play a significant role in unlocking human potential.

781
00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:32.719
Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think it's thinking about like

782
00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:36.280
where are people at their best? Right? Yeah, Like I

783
00:37:36.280 --> 00:37:38.400
think that there are leaders I would talk to that

784
00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:41.079
say I can't wait to be back in the office

785
00:37:41.079 --> 00:37:42.840
and just you know, be in a room and we're

786
00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:45.320
bouncing ideas off of each other, and just you know,

787
00:37:45.679 --> 00:37:49.000
everybody's bouncing ideas back and forth. They say, well, that

788
00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:51.159
might be where you're at your best. For some people,

789
00:37:51.199 --> 00:37:53.239
they get their best ideas when they have a quiet

790
00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:57.079
space to think and to work and they need that

791
00:37:57.119 --> 00:37:59.679
away time, and then they come to the meetings really

792
00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:02.679
energized with you know, and are able to participate. I

793
00:38:02.719 --> 00:38:05.039
think I talked to a lot of people during COVID

794
00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:07.239
who would say, you know, if people who are more

795
00:38:07.239 --> 00:38:10.480
introverted would say, I actually participated a lot more in

796
00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:13.880
meetings because I was able to. I might not have

797
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:16.719
wanted to chime in, but I would type in the chat,

798
00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:19.280
and so I felt like my voice was being heard

799
00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:22.840
more than necessarily in a room where I wouldn't necessarily

800
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:26.360
chime in, And so really paying attention to like where

801
00:38:26.360 --> 00:38:28.039
are we getting the best from our team? Where are

802
00:38:28.039 --> 00:38:31.400
the best ideas being generated? How do we create opportunities

803
00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:35.239
where the ways in which people think and operate and

804
00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:38.320
work can really go to people's advantages so that we

805
00:38:38.360 --> 00:38:39.679
get the best out of our people.

806
00:38:41.480 --> 00:38:44.480
I think there needs to be some major mental decoupling here,

807
00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:46.400
and I appreciate how you talk about the you know.

808
00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:49.719
As you mentioned earlier, we need to shift the idea

809
00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:52.719
that the end product, rather than where and when it

810
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:54.440
was produced, is the focus.

811
00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:55.880
So that's the presenteeism again.

812
00:38:56.360 --> 00:38:58.400
And I had to chuckle at the example you gave

813
00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:00.239
in your book and where you're talking about face time

814
00:39:00.320 --> 00:39:03.480
is not an indicator of commitment. You talk about a

815
00:39:03.559 --> 00:39:06.719
leader said, I just don't want people sitting around in

816
00:39:06.760 --> 00:39:09.360
the pool in their flip flops doing their work. And

817
00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:11.920
that's when you're like, well why not if they're actually

818
00:39:11.960 --> 00:39:14.599
if the output is fantastic, why do you care where

819
00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:15.480
they're doing their work?

820
00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:15.880
Right?

821
00:39:16.199 --> 00:39:18.599
And I think that's such an important.

822
00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:19.960
Thing to showcase this because there needs to be a

823
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:23.239
decoupling of what we're focused on. If you're focused on

824
00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:26.840
seeing people and that presenteeism versus the output, I would

825
00:39:26.960 --> 00:39:28.599
argue that you're really missing the boat.

826
00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:31.119
Yeah, And I think that goes to the idea is

827
00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:34.679
that just because you see people in an office environment

828
00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:37.440
doesn't mean they're working right, we don't know what they're doing.

829
00:39:37.480 --> 00:39:41.800
You really good leaders are judging by the output and

830
00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:44.320
the impact. I do think impact is important too, to

831
00:39:44.320 --> 00:39:47.760
pay attention to that, right, Yes, am I mentoring? Am

832
00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:51.599
I contributing to organizational citizenship? Am I being a good

833
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:54.159
steward of culture and all of those things that people

834
00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:58.280
can absolutely contribute in an organization. I would say that

835
00:39:58.360 --> 00:40:00.599
you know it's not always just a about getting your

836
00:40:00.599 --> 00:40:03.360
work done. There are other things that contribute to success

837
00:40:03.480 --> 00:40:05.599
that you want to make sure that you're doing too.

838
00:40:06.119 --> 00:40:08.119
And so that's like the impact that I'm having, and

839
00:40:08.119 --> 00:40:10.239
that's why I say to individuals, you need to be

840
00:40:10.280 --> 00:40:13.320
also thinking about that as well in these environments.

841
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:18.000
So for the rest of this conversation, Mona, I want

842
00:40:18.039 --> 00:40:21.800
to focus on your beautiful flex success framework that you've

843
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:24.119
developed and how it can be used to positively influence

844
00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:27.639
a company's business continuity around flexibility. So if you could

845
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:31.440
take us through each of the five steps, the five

846
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:33.480
aspects of it, and we'll kind of bring it to

847
00:40:33.559 --> 00:40:34.239
life for people.

848
00:40:34.599 --> 00:40:37.039
Yeah, So the first step is to reflect and that's

849
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:41.079
really going to the topic of your whole podcast, but

850
00:40:41.239 --> 00:40:43.519
is around purpose, right, what is the purpose? And we

851
00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:46.400
talked about that in the beginning segments of the idea

852
00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:50.000
of really building the business case for your organization. So

853
00:40:50.039 --> 00:40:53.280
it's built on this strong foundation and so that reflect

854
00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:57.119
is a lot of work around what does flexibility make

855
00:40:57.280 --> 00:41:00.239
possible for us as an organization? What's the business case?

856
00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:04.159
And then the reimagine is around what is the shared

857
00:41:04.280 --> 00:41:06.960
vision of looking at who do you want to be

858
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:09.360
as an organization, What do you want the future? What

859
00:41:09.400 --> 00:41:11.480
do you want your people saying about you? What do

860
00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:14.719
you want your competitor saying about you? What do you

861
00:41:14.719 --> 00:41:18.480
want the market saying about you? When you think about flexibility,

862
00:41:18.519 --> 00:41:20.679
when you think about your values and is it an

863
00:41:20.760 --> 00:41:24.320
alignment with who you say you are? So there's a

864
00:41:24.360 --> 00:41:27.440
lot of strong foundation there in that second step of looking.

865
00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:30.079
I spent a lot of time with organizations looking at, okay, well,

866
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:32.440
what are your values, what do you put in your marketing?

867
00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:35.280
Is it an alignment? What's your culture? What would people

868
00:41:35.320 --> 00:41:38.039
say to describe your culture? And how does flexibility fit

869
00:41:38.119 --> 00:41:40.960
in with that? So you're really those first two steps

870
00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:44.280
of reflected and reimagine are building that strong foundation. The

871
00:41:44.360 --> 00:41:47.360
third step, then the redesign, is Okay, let's start designing

872
00:41:47.400 --> 00:41:49.679
the kind of flexibility that we want to offer. That's

873
00:41:49.719 --> 00:41:53.119
the holistic flexibility. That's what do the policies look like,

874
00:41:53.199 --> 00:41:54.960
what are the things that we want to do? What

875
00:41:55.039 --> 00:41:58.599
can we offer our people? And then the most important step,

876
00:41:58.599 --> 00:42:02.239
which I think people forget, so we say that flexibility

877
00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:04.840
is not a policy shift, it's a whole culture shift,

878
00:42:05.079 --> 00:42:08.440
and for it to work, that next stage, which is

879
00:42:08.559 --> 00:42:14.000
the reintegrate is really around how do we integrate flexibility

880
00:42:14.039 --> 00:42:18.679
into our culture? And so that involves an alignment of

881
00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:21.559
I say, in order to integrate it well, you have

882
00:42:21.639 --> 00:42:24.440
to bring your purpose, align your purpose with a set

883
00:42:24.440 --> 00:42:26.719
of principles. What are we talking about when we talk

884
00:42:26.719 --> 00:42:30.079
about flexibility, Things like flexibility is not a trade off

885
00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:33.199
for performance, things like you know, facetime's not an indicator

886
00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:36.679
of commitment, things like the core kind of principles so

887
00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:39.920
that you clear up any of the misperceptions that people

888
00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:42.079
might have about flexibility. So those are a set of

889
00:42:42.159 --> 00:42:45.800
principles you develop with your policies. What your policies that

890
00:42:45.840 --> 00:42:49.760
you created in step three were with a set of

891
00:42:49.760 --> 00:42:53.920
best practices. How do okay, So now we've rolled out flexibility,

892
00:42:53.960 --> 00:42:56.679
what are the practices we need in order to make

893
00:42:56.719 --> 00:42:59.199
it work. What are the practices that relate to how

894
00:42:59.239 --> 00:43:01.880
we're going to build connection, how we're going to maintain culture,

895
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:04.159
What are the practices around how we're going to collaborate,

896
00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:07.480
how we're going to communicate in order to make it fit?

897
00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:10.719
And then you align that with your people. For people,

898
00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:13.360
they do need to be trained, they do need to

899
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:15.719
have a set of expectations, they do need to have

900
00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:18.400
a set of resources around what does it mean for

901
00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:21.159
me to be successful in this environment? What are some

902
00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:23.039
of the things I need to be doing. What are

903
00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:26.800
the expectations on me in order to be successful? And

904
00:43:26.920 --> 00:43:29.880
in addition, leaders need to be trained is how do

905
00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:32.679
I lead in this new environment? To the extent that

906
00:43:32.719 --> 00:43:35.639
we're we're creating a flexible work environment, what does that

907
00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:37.960
mean for me as a leader? How do I make

908
00:43:38.000 --> 00:43:40.199
sure I'm still giving people feedback? How am I making

909
00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:42.639
sure I still give people opportunities? How am I make

910
00:43:42.639 --> 00:43:45.760
sure I still build relationships in this environment? What are

911
00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:47.920
the mindset shifts I have to have as a leader? Right,

912
00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:51.760
a lot of times flexibility isn't working because people have

913
00:43:51.800 --> 00:43:55.719
a set of perceptions around it that are actually not true.

914
00:43:55.840 --> 00:43:58.480
And we need to make sure that we're talking about

915
00:43:58.599 --> 00:44:01.079
not just the practices, but also mindset shifts that have

916
00:44:01.159 --> 00:44:04.119
to happen. So that's that fourth step of reintegration. It

917
00:44:04.159 --> 00:44:06.400
takes actually a lot of work to be able to

918
00:44:06.559 --> 00:44:10.079
integrate it successfully within an organization. And then that last

919
00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:12.199
step is how do we reinforce, which is how do

920
00:44:12.280 --> 00:44:16.159
we measure and continue to tweak and iterate. So I

921
00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:19.280
talk about we have to be really intentional with flexibility.

922
00:44:19.320 --> 00:44:21.480
We have to be inclusive and we have to be iterative,

923
00:44:22.039 --> 00:44:25.000
constantly looking at what's getting in the way, what's not working.

924
00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:27.800
Is it a policy issue, is it a purpose issue,

925
00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:31.119
is it a practices issue? Is it a people issue

926
00:44:31.199 --> 00:44:34.239
or people not doing the right thing? And so really

927
00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:38.960
kind of constantly looking at if we as an organization,

928
00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:41.800
you invested in flexibility for the business case right, there

929
00:44:41.840 --> 00:44:44.360
is a real purpose behind it. Are we getting the

930
00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:47.559
benefits of all of that? Are we constantly measuring and

931
00:44:47.639 --> 00:44:49.599
so that we can tweak to make sure that it's working.

932
00:44:49.880 --> 00:44:50.880
So that's the framework.

933
00:44:51.639 --> 00:44:53.079
It's beautiful, so tight.

934
00:44:53.360 --> 00:44:54.920
A couple of things I just want to call out

935
00:44:54.920 --> 00:44:57.159
here in Menar that a relative to that that you

936
00:44:57.199 --> 00:44:59.840
also talk about in your book, is you say, according

937
00:44:59.880 --> 00:45:04.280
to a Future Forum study, workforce policy planning is largely

938
00:45:04.280 --> 00:45:07.360
happening at the executive level, with sixty percent of executives

939
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:10.159
saying they're designing their company's policy with little to no

940
00:45:10.360 --> 00:45:15.079
direct impact input from employees. And so I also like

941
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:17.320
in your book how you talk about creating something I

942
00:45:17.320 --> 00:45:19.400
forget how you described it, but I would call it

943
00:45:19.400 --> 00:45:22.480
MABE something like a task force where you're enrolling different people,

944
00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:26.159
different stakeholders from the organization in terms of creating and

945
00:45:26.199 --> 00:45:29.119
implementing and rolling out the policy, including people who are

946
00:45:29.159 --> 00:45:30.039
on the front line.

947
00:45:30.440 --> 00:45:32.679
Yeah, I think there sometimes can be a disconnect, right

948
00:45:32.679 --> 00:45:36.639
that leaders are not actually really tuned into what are

949
00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:40.079
their people saying about it, or they're not hearing seeing

950
00:45:40.119 --> 00:45:43.039
the things in the surveys, or they're not looking at

951
00:45:43.039 --> 00:45:45.079
it from a diversity perspective, they're not looking at it

952
00:45:45.079 --> 00:45:47.239
from a talent perspective. There's lots of things that go

953
00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:50.360
into it, and I think it's important that when you're

954
00:45:50.599 --> 00:45:53.480
making those decisions that you are building that task force

955
00:45:53.519 --> 00:45:56.079
and you're looking at who can sit on that task

956
00:45:56.119 --> 00:45:59.199
force that are making sure that they have insight into

957
00:45:59.239 --> 00:46:00.400
all of the different impacts.

958
00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:00.599
Right.

959
00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:02.280
We talked a lot about the fact that, Okay, well

960
00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:04.519
there's an impact on the environment. Are we having our

961
00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:07.599
ESG groups or leaders sitting in that room as we're

962
00:46:07.639 --> 00:46:11.519
designing there's an impact from technology perspective or the technology

963
00:46:11.559 --> 00:46:14.360
individuals sitting in there? Are the HR folks in there,

964
00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:17.239
are the diversity people, are the talent leaders? Like making

965
00:46:17.320 --> 00:46:20.760
sure that that task force is pretty robust in representing

966
00:46:20.840 --> 00:46:24.320
all of the different aspects that flexibility touches within an organization,

967
00:46:24.639 --> 00:46:25.960
and then we can make that decision.

968
00:46:27.639 --> 00:46:28.760
You know, it just occurs to me.

969
00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:30.960
You have many examples in your book here, and we're

970
00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:34.800
close to being out of time. But can you think of,

971
00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:38.280
like short, a simple example of like an organization with

972
00:46:38.679 --> 00:46:39.960
I don't have to say the name if you don't

973
00:46:39.960 --> 00:46:42.679
want to, that it really was against this idea of

974
00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:46.320
flexibility and that incorporated it and had tremendous results.

975
00:46:46.960 --> 00:46:47.119
Yeah.

976
00:46:47.159 --> 00:46:49.159
I mean, I think that we have lots of examples

977
00:46:49.159 --> 00:46:51.679
of seeing leaders who have sort of switched, who said

978
00:46:51.719 --> 00:46:55.400
like I never imagined before but now kind of going

979
00:46:55.480 --> 00:46:58.920
through the whole process of really seeing. But I will

980
00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:02.159
tell you that happened because there's a lot of intentionality

981
00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:06.239
and conversation of spending a lot of time building it up, right,

982
00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:08.360
Like that is one of the things I say is

983
00:47:08.400 --> 00:47:10.880
that there were a lot of times during COVID and

984
00:47:10.920 --> 00:47:13.599
even in the work I'm doing post COVID, where I

985
00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:17.000
spend a lot of time with executive committees and leaders

986
00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:19.679
to talk about the why. Why is this important?

987
00:47:19.760 --> 00:47:19.880
Right?

988
00:47:19.920 --> 00:47:22.280
Like, forget about the what first of all, Let's talk

989
00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:25.199
really about the why and spend a lot of talking

990
00:47:25.320 --> 00:47:28.039
time talking about what is flexibility and what isn't? What

991
00:47:28.159 --> 00:47:30.519
is it not? Because I think there's a lot of

992
00:47:31.159 --> 00:47:34.119
perceptions out there. So the organizations that I've seen successful

993
00:47:34.239 --> 00:47:38.000
spend a lot of investment of time really talking about

994
00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:42.360
let's define flexibility first, like, let's clear up what's the mindset,

995
00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:44.480
what are the things that you think get in the way,

996
00:47:45.559 --> 00:47:49.039
and give people a space, even within executive committees, to

997
00:47:49.119 --> 00:47:52.840
have an honest conversation, because then we can move forward.

998
00:47:52.960 --> 00:47:55.079
We can clear that all up. And you know, I

999
00:47:55.159 --> 00:47:58.119
remember somebody saying, you gave me the space to hear

1000
00:47:58.199 --> 00:48:01.599
myself think and talk, and I realized what I was

1001
00:48:01.639 --> 00:48:04.039
saying wasn't correct, And I think you have to give

1002
00:48:04.039 --> 00:48:06.000
people that space in meetings.

1003
00:48:06.480 --> 00:48:07.320
Yeah, agreed.

1004
00:48:07.920 --> 00:48:10.320
I am so happy our paths across Manar and your

1005
00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:14.199
work is so hugely important. I'm grateful that I read

1006
00:48:14.239 --> 00:48:16.000
the whole book and learned so much, shared you with

1007
00:48:16.000 --> 00:48:17.320
my listeners and viewers.

1008
00:48:17.519 --> 00:48:18.400
You know, this show's listened to.

1009
00:48:18.440 --> 00:48:21.239
Why people around the world who care about either improving

1010
00:48:21.280 --> 00:48:24.800
their own leadership or their organizations or their experience at work,

1011
00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:26.199
what would you like to leave them with?

1012
00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:29.760
I think that it is give yourself the time and

1013
00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:33.199
space to really be having the conversation. So we say,

1014
00:48:33.239 --> 00:48:35.760
let's have the right conversations about this. And I think

1015
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:39.039
that the more we can have honest and open and

1016
00:48:39.079 --> 00:48:43.199
conversations around this, the better we'll be agreed.

1017
00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:45.840
Menar, You're a gift. I'm so happy to know you.

1018
00:48:45.880 --> 00:48:47.480
Thanks for being on working on purpose.

1019
00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:49.719
Likewise, thank you so much, and thank you for all

1020
00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:52.119
the work that you do. It's nice to meet fellow

1021
00:48:52.119 --> 00:48:54.760
individuals who are trying to change the world.

1022
00:48:55.320 --> 00:48:57.639
Like minded souls. That's right, rowing the boat in the

1023
00:48:57.639 --> 00:49:00.679
same direction. Listeners in view, wish you were going to

1024
00:49:00.760 --> 00:49:04.239
want to follow this woman and her work Monarmana Morales,

1025
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:06.960
the work she does at Diversity and Flexibility Alliance and

1026
00:49:07.039 --> 00:49:10.000
her book The Flexibility Paradigm. You can start by visiting

1027
00:49:10.039 --> 00:49:14.679
her website, it's d F Alliance d Like Diversity f

1028
00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:18.320
Like Flexibility Alliance dot com. Last week, if you missed

1029
00:49:18.320 --> 00:49:19.719
the live show, you can always catch it be a

1030
00:49:19.760 --> 00:49:22.480
recorded podcast. We were on air with doctor Carlos Hore,

1031
00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:25.320
the Professor of Strategic Management and director of the Chair

1032
00:49:25.639 --> 00:49:28.880
Management by Missions and Corporate Governance at the University THT

1033
00:49:28.880 --> 00:49:33.199
International in Barcelona. He is also the founder of DPMC,

1034
00:49:33.440 --> 00:49:36.440
which provides strategy and change management services, and he's also

1035
00:49:36.440 --> 00:49:39.320
the author of various books on implementing and measuring purpose

1036
00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:43.119
in organizations. He gave us an incredibly accessible framework to

1037
00:49:43.159 --> 00:49:46.239
measure and track how purpose has lived in your company

1038
00:49:46.440 --> 00:49:49.159
and how it supports your performance. Next week, we'll be

1039
00:49:49.159 --> 00:49:51.920
on there with Josh Friedman, the author of At the

1040
00:49:51.920 --> 00:49:55.039
Heart of Leadership, How to Get Results with Emotional Intelligence.

1041
00:49:55.280 --> 00:49:58.800
We'll be delving into this now well known topic in

1042
00:49:58.840 --> 00:50:02.360
a really grassroots, practical, hands on way. See you then,

1043
00:50:02.400 --> 00:50:04.559
and remember work as one of the best adventures and

1044
00:50:04.599 --> 00:50:07.199
means of realizing our potential and making the impact we crave.

1045
00:50:07.480 --> 00:50:08.880
So let's work on Purpose.

1046
00:50:11.880 --> 00:50:14.559
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to

1047
00:50:14.599 --> 00:50:17.639
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise

1048
00:50:17.719 --> 00:50:21.599
Cortes each week on W four CY. Together we'll create

1049
00:50:21.639 --> 00:50:26.320
a world where business operates conscientiously, leadership inspires and passion performance,

1050
00:50:26.440 --> 00:50:29.159
and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning

1051
00:50:29.239 --> 00:50:33.039
and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work on Purpose.