The “Colorful” Dr. Smith on Purpose, Power and Leadership

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What's working on purpose anyway? Each
week we ponder the answer to this question.

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People ache for meaning and purpose at
work, to contribute their talents passionately

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and know their lives really matter.
They crave being part of an organization that

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inspires them and helps them grow into
realizing their highest potential business can be such

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a force for good in the world, elevating humanity. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration to help
usher in this world we all want working

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on purpose. Now Here is your
host, doctor Elise Cortez. Hi there,

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welcome back to their Working and Purpose
program. Thanks for tuning it again

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this week. I'm your host,
doctor Elis Cortes Dheny. You live from

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Dallas, which is home based for
me. If you don't know me yet,

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I'm a management consultant specializing in meaning
and purpose, organizational logo therapist,

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inspirational speaker, social scientist, and
author. I help companies discover and articulate

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their purpose or threat of their culture
and operations. And I work with the

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organizations to develop inspirational leaders who create
cultures where people actually want to come to

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work and do their best. And
I provide programs like the Grab Your gusta

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that enable individual team members to discover
and unleash their passion and purpose at work

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to catalyze fulfillment, engagement, and
productivity. You learn more about me and

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how we can work together at a
least coortest dot com or gusto dashow dot

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com. Let me thank my partner
and sponsor Work Proud. We are a

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perfect collaboration. RWA wants to know
they matter, that the work they do

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is meaningful and appreciated. Workproud helps
companies to do adjust that through their mobile

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platform that is built to encourage employees
to share stories and recognize each other's contribution.

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Work Proud empowers hr and business leaders
to help create company cultures where all

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employees are inspired, feel proud of
their work, and proud of their company.

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Learn more about work Proud and a
recent study they've commissioned about pride in

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workplace at work Proud dot com forward
Slash Doctor Elis Quartz with us today is

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doctor William Smith. He's the director
of Organizing for Development and International Institute.

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He has a long career background helping
international organizations like the World Bank and United

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Nations, among others, with growth
and development issues. He's also spent decades

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studying and practicing in the field of
purpose and other areas, and has written

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the book The Creative Power Transforming Ourselves
Organizations in Our World. He's also written

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several scholarly articles, including making the
Invisible Visible, Dynamic Interplay between Purpose,

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power and leadership, and Organizing Complexity. Today, we'll be talking about where

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his fascination purpose and his appreciation influencing
control model arose, and how he's applying

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his current work today to help organizations. He's also going to be sharing just

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some of those fresh off the press
new discoveries that he has found with us.

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He judges to day from Richmond,
Virginia. Bill, Welcome to Working

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on Purpose. It's good to be
here. It's wonderful to have you.

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It's just amazing to get to be
with a mind and heart like yours.

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So I appreciate doctor Claude Coutier in
Canada who brought us together. Thank Claude,

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amazing talent, scout that he is
good so to get us started here.

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There's so much and I really feel
like I need to call you.

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Doctor William Smith thinks you accomplished so
much. But we've agreed that I'm going

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to call you Bill, so I'll
be obedient. I will be obedient,

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but I want to dive in if
we can, Bill to your magnificent background.

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You've really done some extraordinary things in
your life. So holp our listeners

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and viewers understand just where your work
began and some of the things that you've

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done, like for the World Bank
in the United Nations. Yeah. Well,

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I think the first thing I'd like
to say to our audience is that

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all of this sounds very great,
but it's really been based on simplicity and

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what I call natural systems, which
is following nature. So the good thing

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for all of us is what I'm
jumping in away to the end. But

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just so you know we're going,
is that what it tells us about each

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of us is that each of us
is a whole system. We have borne

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with everything that we need. It's
just that all the stuff that we need

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is arranged differently in each of us. And part of our life is to

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discover that difference and where that is
an asset and where it's useful. And

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so a lot of the things I've
done have been more accepting that I didn't

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know at the time that's what I
was doing. That's just again how my

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arrangement of parts ended up, and
so then its circumstances start having an influence

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on how you arrange those things or
how do you discover their arrangements. And

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mine was a fairly large one.
That I was born during World War two.

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I'm English and I lived in Liverpool, and in April of nineteen forty

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one we were bombed every night for
four months. And now you'd think that

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would be terrible circumstances and so on, and in some ways it was.

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But what it taught me about life
is really what accounts for how I arranged

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my parts and what I was able
to do with them, is that humans

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are tremendously resilient. You know,
Liverpool was bombed hoping to put people into

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submission and to accept acceptions of defeat. It did exactly the opposite. People

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were found their courage, people found
their support for each other. And you

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ask many of the people are now
at the end of their lives what the

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effect the war had, and some
people tell you it's the best time of

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their life. They never felt more
alive than when they were about to die.

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And that, without my knowing it, that had a tremendous influence on

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me. And the first one is
I think it accounts for my going global

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that you know I always had emmy
and part that I was also born in

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Liverpool, which is a part which
has a very cosmopolitan reach, but we

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also have some very ordinary people which
who were not at the top of the

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social pecking order in England, and
so they tended to be warm and supportive

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of each other. So Liverpool was
a very warm I used to be brought

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up in a very friendly place to
go in and that also helped me in

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my set because I certainly didn't carry
any of the airs and graces of someone

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privileged into the work I did.
So the next major step was when I

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did get a job, it fit
exactly that need. I got a job

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in the airlines. I was a
management trainer, which is to be a

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management training in British Airways then was
like getting a job in the foreign service.

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Because you had a job from the
womb to the tomb. You would

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be a future general manager of BOEC. Would called them British Overseas Airways Corporations

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it's now British Airways and they gave
a management costs which is probably read.

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The worst course management course i've got
head of it was it was basically some

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legal lessons, a couple of financial
lessons and economics. But they gave one

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course which wasn't a course, it
was a paper to write and we were

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asked to write what is the effect
of management theory on management practice? At

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my age I'm still writing that paper, understand but it but a book did

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come out of it from that.
But it changed my life. I suddenly

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saw that, you know, this
thing called organization was something I had never

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even thought of. You know,
organizations to me were like nature, you

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know, the part of nature and
just like the reign in England, bloody

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awful and there's not much you could
do about them, you know. But

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this book woke me up and say. It was called The Social Psychology of

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of of Industry, and it was
one of the first books really looking at

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what is now modern management, but
through the eyes of a social psychologist,

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and he basically said that you can
really do something about these organizations, and

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the kind of things you'd do make
people a lot happier, a lot more

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productive, and it's better for the
company. It's not only better for the

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company, it's better for the community
and it's that's that's no brainer. Why

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aren't we doing this? You know? And so I, you know,

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through that reading that it really set
me for my career. And I'd say

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in British Airways I'd had another major
learning is that I felt I knew nothing.

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I didn't you know. I was
just a trainee and we'd had some

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airline technical training, but it didn't
know anything about management and so on,

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and but I started to get resulted. Only my first major job outside of

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training was in the airport at Rome
at Fiumicino, and we had airlines supposed

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to you know, British Airways ran
all the Commonwealth airlines too in Europe,

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so we had flights coming in from
everywhere in Rome, from every WEDG direction,

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twenty four hours a day and so
on. And I had no experience

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in anything that busy and that hectic, and so just started to kind of

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discover my way. I was doing
something which I didn't know it had a

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word for. In fact, I
had to invent one for it eventually,

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which is basically appreciating the situation in
some ways. But within six months we

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had made Rome the best performing airport
on British Airways network, and the kind

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of airports young people like me were
sent to were not those that were run

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by British Airways itself. It was
one of those that were run by another

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airline, so you had to work
through somebody else to get your results.

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And that two was probably the best
thing for me, the best experience I

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could have, because then I never
learned to really exercise control because you didn't

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have any what's that? Yeah,
so you know, so anyway we got,

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we got this tremendous performance. I
didn't know what where did it come

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from? What it happened, and
from previous training airports and attachments and so

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on. I knew that you could
work very hard at something and get really

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good results. Ten your back look
at something else and the other thing would

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drop down and everything. But this
didn't kept kept going. So An asked

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around and there was an incident somewhere
along the way where the manager for General

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Manager of Europe came visiting the station, that's what we call airport station,

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and he was with my local manager
of the manager for Rome, who looked

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at I looked after the airport and
he looked after everything else. And the

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the group was there and I was
walking past on duty in uniform with the

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three shiny bars, and I went
over to be polite, because so you're

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standing then and oh Smith, jolly
good, how are you you know,

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how's the wife? Rather than enjoying
Romeo, yes, sir course, and

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said oh Smith, could you step
aside a minute? And I thought,

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oh god, they're the results.
They know we're fast, so I'm waiting

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to try and look my most modest
and go oh shucks, you know.

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And he said, Smith, I
noticed you didn't call your area manager,

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sir. And I'm from Liverpool and
working class and that's like tack. So

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attacked. We attacked, so I
attacked back. I said, of course

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I didn't call him, said I
know his name. I said, I

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call passengers by their name when I
can, and only when I can't do

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I call them say And then I
realized from the look on his face,

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oh boy, that wasn't smart,
you know. And he said, I

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to Smith for health reasons, Oh, I said, I said to him.

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One of the reasons I don't call
management. You know, people say,

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is I missed the military service compulsory
military service by about three weeks,

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just out of age, and so
I, you know, and he said,

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I to Smith, did not complete
military service, but I call my

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superiors sir. Oh oh, that's
it. That was the day I decided

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to I was going to leave England. I felt had done the best I

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could and I thought this was a
class thing. I got it. This

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is working class. Even though I'd
got rid of my Liverpool accent, which

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you have to do that, you're
still noticeably working class. And you know,

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recognition wasn't going to come your way
very easily. And that is actually

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how I left. And so again
I've got another huge lesson about management,

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you know, to take on to
the next whatever that is. I had

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to sort it out. And well
with that, let me stop you if

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I can't be, because we're going
to take a quick quick break and that's

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a perfect way for us to go
into it. Good. So, Emilie

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Cortez, your host, we were
on the air with doctor William Smith,

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the director of Organizing for Development and
International Institute. We've been talking a bit

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about how he grew up and where
he developed his mindset. His unique way

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of seeing the world, which are
going to see as we go along in

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the conversation, has contributed to his
decades long of research and something that he's

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put for today. Is it really
remarkable? Stay with us, We'll be

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right back. Doctor Release Cortez is
a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose

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and inspirational speaker and author. She
helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders

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and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning
infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,

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and commitment within the workforce. To
learn more or to invite a Lease to

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speak to your organization, please visit
her at a Lease Cortez dot com.

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Let's talk about how to get your
employees working on purpose. This is working

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on Purpose with doctor Release Cortez.
To reach our program today or open a

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conversation with a Lease, send an
email to Elise ali Se at Elise Cortez

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00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:10.240
dot com. Now back to working
on Purpose. Thanks for stating with us,

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and welcome back to the program.
Before we get back into talking with

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Bill Smith about what he's been doing
with his life and sach, I do

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want to share with you if you
don't already know it, that I have

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my first book out in Amazon now
was it was brought out last falls called

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Purpose Ignited. How Inspiring Leaders ignite
passion and Nivate Cause love for you to

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check it out. I wrote that
book to awakened readers to their passion and

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purpose and help them transform into instagrational
leaders who enlightned the workplace and elevate the

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contribution of human beings inside it.
And I use that as a context for

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all of my programs for the most
part of leadership, as well as my

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Grab your Customer program. So check
it out if you will, Thank you

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very much. If you're just starting
the program. My guest is doctor William

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Smith. He's the director of Organizing
for Development and International Institute. I'm your

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host, doctor Elise Cortez. So
we left off in that last bit there

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Bill with you sharing why how was
it you decided to leave England with that

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quote managerial exchange. So then what
happened? Yes, So I came to

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the States to do an MBA,
and particularly because there was one sociologist at

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Indiana University in Bloomington, Indiana who
was starting to say some things that was

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awaken me to some of the things
I was sensing but didn't have words or

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understanding to know what I knew.
He was talking about something and one of

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the things he was talking about was
power, and you know, so I

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he at that time power was forbidden
topic. It was you couldn't really talk

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about it. But he had found
a way to talk about it academically.

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But it still wasn't to me getting
at the root of things. But it

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was saying to me that, yes, this instinct that you have that power

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is a really important topic is worth
pursuing. And so the MBA for me,

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it was something of a disappointment because
I expected to find something about this

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mystery about what was it that was
happening at Rome. I knew it wasn't

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anything I did in step one,
step two, three, step three four,

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but there was something with my relationship
with Rome and maybe even with the

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Italian culture or something. It was
something broad and fuzzy, but I felt,

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you know, if you can get
that kind of performance in that kind

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of time, it's worth spending some
time trying understand the fuzziness of what it

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is. But I left Indiana a
little disappointed that I wasn't really getting that

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insight into performance wasn't being translated it. I learned a computer language, and

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I could see, wow, that
was that was really good. I could

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see doing a lot with that.
So I ended up then going to work

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for a consultant and again had some
surprising, you know, performance bumps.

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For example, I did one of
the first my first consulting studies was McDonald's,

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and we were meant to do industrial
engineering type study to determine the causes

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of high turnover. But being that
Liverpudlian with a practical bent, I felt

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that was a lot of analytical effort
where the answers were probably a little more

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simple than that. And one of
the things I noticed was at that time,

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franchises were really growing. It was
a new idea, and everyone was

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hiring fresh, young white boys as
the target audience, and of course there

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weren't enough of them to go around, and so that was one of the

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major reasons for the labor turnover,
not all of these technical reasons and so

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on. So I brought it up
with my principle and everything, and he

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looked at me rather shocked that,
you know, how can we high hide

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paid consultants go in and make a
recommendation that they hire women or girls and

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so on. That would be you
know, you have to have this superb

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mathematical, algorithmic rationale for what you're
doing. So on my own, without

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approval of I went round to some
franchise stores, not McDonald's, that did

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hire women and girls. And I
was shocked at what I found. That

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not only was labor turnover a lot
better, everything was a lot better.

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Just tiring women nevering there. So
we had to spend our time how to

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turn that common sense insight into facts
and figures and things that you could sell

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as a five hundred thousand dollars study. You know, but that was their

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problem, right had I had done
mine and they had done it. So

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again there was some disappointment that I
was not getting a handle on this very

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high performance at very low cost in
very short time, And in a way

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I ended up giving up. Say, well, you know, I expected

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to find something from academia. I
didn't. Then I went to consulting an

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effect said there between academia and practice, so I'll find something from them,

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and I didn't. So I said
I'll give up and go back into industry

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and joined the international division of a
pharmaceutical company. Then started creating this management

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development program which would incurt include all
the kind of rational things that I was

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learning and so on. And we
did that, and lo and behold,

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we got another room. Our Canadian
operations just blossomed under this program. We

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called it MPP Management Planning Program and
the essence of it was really very simple,

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just bringing to together. In those
days, this was something very new,

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just bringing them together to talk through
the issues and go through the levels

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of problem solving systematically. And it
worked tremendously. And so in the international

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division, then I tried to do
something similar and did a study and there

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is a paper and it is on
the website of this study where we did

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of the whole organization then to look
at how was it doing in terms of

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evolution, you know, of what
it was, what is trying to become

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and how is it becoming it?
And it was a big The study was

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a big success, and it was
like classic research, you know. And

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so I was going around the world, you know, to each of the

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areas and explaining the results of this
study. But it had zero effect on

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the company because what happened is each
area would take from the study the things

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that supported what it wanted to do, knew them and so on. But

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it wasn't effect that Also there's that
was my realization that classic research doesn't get

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people to up up for you know, performance, and there was then I

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came to that conclusion that organizations are
not run on normals of rationality. But

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now I had my true lead.
What they are run on is norms of

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power. And I thought my mentor, my be a mentor, had said

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that in his book, and I
remember quoting that, and I remember someone

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reading it and said, well,
we've gone through James D. Thompson's book

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Organizations Ask, and we can't find
what you said. And I realized he

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hadn't said it. I said it, but it was so the thought was

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so indebted to him that I thought
he'd actually said it, and so on

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said, okay, I'll take credit
for it. That's mine. So that's

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where the idea for power came from. And because this wasn't getting anywhere,

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and G. D. Sell was
going through a lot of you know,

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five year turmoil that reorganizations that they
go through, so I took advantage to

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and you know, an offer that
they would keep me on as a consultant

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while I did a PhD. And
I went to Whatton because there were three

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people whose work I knew totally separately, and I had no idea they knew

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each other but and certainly not that
they were in the same university, but

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they were in the same program in
the same university, and one was a

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very famous operations research person, Russell
Acoff. Another one was a fellow of

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Englishmen from the tavist Stock Institute in
England that had invented socio technical systems ideas.

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And a third one who actually ended
up having the most practical use on

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me, was a Turk. He
was from he was at the Club.

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He'd been at the Club of Rome, and he'd been working on planning at

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the time when the Soviet Union was
collapsing because of the failure of its five

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year planning process, and he'd come
up with a planning process which is much

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more dynamic and so on. And
that was a big breakthrough for me because

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it then realized that hey, in
studying organization, and I still regarded myself

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as an organization specialist, it's not
about structure. It's one dimension higher than

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that. It's about structure changing over
time, and so you've got to have

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that other level in there of time
changing things. So it's not enough to

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fix the structures because they're going to
change, and so you need a process

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view of organization. So that had
a tremendous impact on me and went into

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my thinking. But again it was
it was time to live. I done,

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I did, oh, I did
the PhD. Okay, And then

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then the real insight happened. Now
that I understood that power as at the

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center, I was trying to study
it as part of my PhD. But

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the most intellectual and the most forceful
and aggressive of professors was ross Eka and

302
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he had just said, power us
not a topic with studying. It was

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looked at in the fifties and everyone
said it would be, you know,

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something great, but it turns out
it would be nothing. You know,

305
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when it's in everything, it's really
nothing. And I said, well,

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I believe the rules of the game
for us as PhD students is that we

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bring in topics that were interested in
exploring. So I'm still interested in exploring

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so and well, he wouldn't speak
for me for three weeks. In fact,

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it was my turn to be about
three or four weeks running the learning

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cell they called them, and eventually
brought something in which happened to be based

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on an equation is Ralph Emerson's equation
that says the power of a over b

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equals the dependence of B on A. So it's really and so I thought,

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wow, the first thing that told
me and the first thing I realized

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that my first big insight on power
is that power is a relationship. It

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is not a quantity. It is
a relationship. So that then opened the

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projects, particularly as they're having a
real problem. They just started social projects

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like population and health and so on, where it's up to hold that thought,

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Doctor Smith. Sorry, we want
to grab our last break, and

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you set us up perfectly to be
able to treat the last bit here,

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so let's go ahead and do that. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortez.

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We're on the ear of doctor William
Smith, the director of Organizing for

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Development in International Institute. We've been
hearing about the ongoing unfoldment of his career

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00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:17.359
and his mind. In this last
session after the break, we're going to

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hear more about his actual worker in
the model that he's put forth and what

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00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:22.799
he's working to develop it further.
Today, stay with us, we'll be

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00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:27.440
right back. Doctor Elise Cortez is
a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose

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00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:33.759
and inspirational speaker and author. She
helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders

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00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:41.720
and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning
infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,

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00:31:41.920 --> 00:31:45.480
and commitment within the workforce. To
learn more or to invite a Lease to

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00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:49.960
speak to your organization, please visit
her at a lease Cortez dot com.

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00:31:51.039 --> 00:32:01.160
Let's talk about how to get your
employees working on purpose. This is working

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00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:06.680
on Purpose with doctor Release Cortez.
To reach our program today or open a

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00:32:06.680 --> 00:32:13.039
conversation with a Lease, send an
email to Elise ali se at Elise Cortez

334
00:32:13.160 --> 00:32:19.319
dot com. Now back to working
on Purpose. Thanks for staying with us,

335
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:21.599
and welcome back to working on Purpose. One of the bit of news

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00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:23.559
that I want to share with you
is that just about a month ago now,

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we have released my second book,
which is an anthology. It's called

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Passionately Striving and Why, an anthology
with the persevere and minded to live their

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purpose. And I'm so proud of
it I could bust. I recruited twenty

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five women from around the world to
share their intimate story of how they discover

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their purpose and how they're now serving
from it. And the reason we're doing

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00:32:42.519 --> 00:32:45.000
that, the reason this is out
there is we want to showcase that purpose

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is available to anyone anywhere in the
world, regardless of socioeconomic background, or

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status, language, religion, whatever
it is, and that it works amazing

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00:32:52.400 --> 00:32:55.039
wonders when you actually work from it. So it's out there on Amazon now

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00:32:55.079 --> 00:32:59.640
to check it out. Passionately striving
and why if you're just joining us.

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My guest is doctor William Smith.
He's the director of Organizing for Development in

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International Institute. I'm your host,
doctor Elie's Cortez. So you were just

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teasing us with this notion that you'd
come to do a consultancy project for the

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World Bank and they were expecting to
bring brilliance from from Wharton and you were

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taking and going to start working on
social issues. Yes, yes, And

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at the same time had been going
through this evolution of what is organization and

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that power is central to it and
yet that aren't any really good concepts of

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power that are eight or nine different
models than not connected with each other all

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the rest of it. But as
part of my own personal learning, Eric

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Tryst, who was from Socio Technical
Systems himself, had been moving on and

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he was beginning to look at you
know that the organization in its environment,

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so it's social ecology. So he
had a modeler way of looking at organizations

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as the internal environment of the organization, which is the organization itself, then

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its relationship with a new word that
was just coming in called stakeholders, and

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then with the community. And so
he showed for me the first thing.

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One of the biggest mistakes I'd been
making with organization and one of the biggest

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mistakes that's still getting made with organizations, is by thinking that the organization is

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bounded by its boundaries and as long
as you have everything working okay and those

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boundaries, everything is okay. Where
Eric was telling me quite bluntly, look,

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Bill, you are never going to
find the answer to organizations and organizational

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performance within the organization. You have
to go outside. So then had three

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places to go outside, and he'd
call them internal, transactional, and contextual.

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And in the World Bank, I
introduced that idea and wrote a paper

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on it was very popular, but
a practitioner came up to me one day

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said, look, Bill, this
it's nice that what you're doing and what

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you're doing is right because you're taking
us out from a concentration on a project

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and going out into its influenced environment
and out into its transactional. But I'm

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an agriculturist and I go out and
work with farmers and peasants every day.

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I can't ask them, how's your
transactional environment? Today? We need other

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words, you know, and instantly, because I don't think I mentioned my

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first degree was in modern language,
and so it's very sensitive to the use

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of language and understood. You know, the structure of Anglo Saxon words which

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are very practical and down to earth, and Latin words which are a lot

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to do with food and sophisticated things. And then the big contextual words were

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philosophical ones and their Greek side realized
we needed some Anglo Saxon words to describe

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what we were doing, and that's
where I came up with the three words.

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I came up within twenty minutes of
that realization. We came up with

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two words to decide what's going on
inside the organization as control. And then

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what's going on with the new word
stakeholders was influence. But we couldn't think

386
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of a word for what was going
on in the context and took us months

387
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and we eventually got it from the
most unlikely sourced from the britty military is

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they'd have, you know, the
British and all the colonies to look after,

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so they had to worry all the
time about the context, you know,

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and all the contexts within those contacts
and so on. So they'd send

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people out like Lawrence of Arabia,
and his job was to go to Arabia

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and appreciate the whole situation, so
looking at everything and in relationship to all

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of British interests, whether it was
poetry, what it was cricket, whether

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it was whatever. And so I
realized that was the word I needed.

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It was appreciation. That's what we're
asking to do. So then I had

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them this model, and it was
we applied it to projects where we'd we're

397
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basically very simply just getting to stop
looking out projects as projects and start looking

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at them as a set of relationships
that they control, control, but no

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more than a third of things you
could control. Then there's a whole set

400
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of things outside of that that you
could influence but not control. And then

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there's a whole set of things that's
bigger than anything else that affected what you

402
00:38:20.920 --> 00:38:24.960
wanted to do, but you couldn't
control them, nor could you influence them.

403
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But that was the biggest set of
things that you had to deal with.

404
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And so just the fact of looking
at projects like this, and I

405
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want to reiterate for our readers because
I'd like this to be their takeaway,

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is you know, in your organizational
life, a fact in your life in

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00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:52.559
general, if you just think of
everything in terms of those things you can

408
00:38:52.599 --> 00:38:57.960
control. Those things you can't control, but you can influence them. And

409
00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:04.199
then all those other things and lots
of them you don't know what they are,

410
00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:09.400
but just being open and listening for
them, and that there's nothing active

411
00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:16.360
more or less like Chinese leadership or
at least Asian leadership. Its leading from

412
00:39:16.400 --> 00:39:25.079
behind through understanding the setting is there. So that then in practice became a

413
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:32.440
very successful effort, and we eventually
started applying it to from single projects to

414
00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:40.119
whole sectors economy, to whole countries, and then to the whole of the

415
00:39:40.159 --> 00:39:50.000
global development system itself, where we
got ten countries together to discuss a new

416
00:39:50.039 --> 00:39:58.519
development paradigm, which is a new
way of looking at this at the world

417
00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:07.280
through this purpose centered approach. Because
one of the academic discoveries and made with

418
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:12.559
assuming they're very practical, was when
I looked at those three circles that power.

419
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:17.960
I asked myself, Well, that's
fine. There's a control domain,

420
00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:24.559
there's an influenced domain, and the
all powered domains. But where the hell

421
00:40:24.599 --> 00:40:30.199
does the power come from? And
where has it taken me about three or

422
00:40:30.239 --> 00:40:35.280
four months to come up with the
term of appreciation? The answer to that

423
00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:40.519
question came back just as sharp as
anything and with like a thunderous clap that

424
00:40:42.039 --> 00:40:50.639
could be a turbulence that says it
comes from purpose. But the implications of

425
00:40:50.800 --> 00:41:00.400
that were so huge that it's still
taking me time to right wrestle with it

426
00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:06.519
now. So they're come across Alice, who's been thinking about this two for

427
00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:16.719
a while and be able to share
the enormity of understanding that purpose. So

428
00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:24.239
I'm also a fan of Laotsu and
the daw Da ching. And he says,

429
00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:30.239
and you go from the one,
which he says is the Dao,

430
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:36.719
which is like it's like purpose in
a way, it's the way, and

431
00:41:36.760 --> 00:41:42.639
then the two is the tay,
which is the way things get done,

432
00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:47.079
which is a bit like power,
and the chin is like order. So

433
00:41:47.559 --> 00:41:57.159
now I'm able to say and understand
that you can go from purpose as the

434
00:41:57.199 --> 00:42:04.719
one to three kinds of power two
power, which is two, and then

435
00:42:05.079 --> 00:42:07.880
that the fact that there are three
kinds of power make it three, and

436
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:16.760
those three things will create everything else. So all relationships that make everything else

437
00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:28.000
go around are contained in combinations of
those three relationships. So I'm sure there's

438
00:42:28.039 --> 00:42:34.039
some things other than that you'd like
me to say. Yeah, yes,

439
00:42:34.119 --> 00:42:38.159
the color theory for sure, and
we have about gosh, maybe four minutes

440
00:42:38.239 --> 00:42:42.880
left. Yeah, okay, Well, the color theory was very easy.

441
00:42:43.079 --> 00:42:50.119
If you say that purpose is the
one and it splits into three things,

442
00:42:50.199 --> 00:42:54.639
which are appreciation, influence, and
control. Well, in the world of

443
00:42:54.760 --> 00:43:00.760
color, the same thing hamps.
Purpose is like white light and it splits

444
00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:05.639
into three colors r GB, red, green, and blue. That's light,

445
00:43:05.800 --> 00:43:10.320
not paint, is there, and
so you can I could found that

446
00:43:10.559 --> 00:43:19.280
I could have matching colors for every
one of the concepts, because we ended

447
00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:23.880
up with a matrix that's got three
levels of purpose in which is ideals,

448
00:43:25.199 --> 00:43:31.960
values, and then goals. And
then we have three types of power going

449
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:37.079
along the columns of the left,
which is appreciation, influencing, control.

450
00:43:37.719 --> 00:43:44.880
So we have purpose being made up
of nine things, and every purpose has

451
00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:51.280
those nine things in them, and
those things can all be represented accurately by

452
00:43:51.280 --> 00:43:58.760
a color there. So that comes
to the last thing, which I didn't

453
00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:04.199
expect to be saying today, is
that that has also led to the discovery

454
00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:09.840
of what we in systems have been
looking for forever, which is what is

455
00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:16.159
the system behind all systems? They
call it the general systems theory. Well,

456
00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:20.719
I don't think we found the general
systems they I don't think anyone will.

457
00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:25.639
But we have found a system of
all systems and all of that in

458
00:44:25.639 --> 00:44:31.960
the last couple of weeks. But
it's based on those simple things. Three

459
00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:40.719
levels of purpose, ideals, values
and goals with three levels of purpose appreciation

460
00:44:40.880 --> 00:44:46.519
in fuls and control give you all
the factors that you need to understand,

461
00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:52.639
evaluate and design anything. Yeah,
it is remarkable. And then add that

462
00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:55.960
here you are working on a periodic
table of living system elements. Yes,

463
00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:04.960
is the other thing was And once
you have those nine things, they are

464
00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:12.559
the order and everyone's got those things
inside them, but they come out in

465
00:45:12.599 --> 00:45:17.800
a different order. Like not everyone
moves from appreciation towards control, or from

466
00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:22.559
ideals to values. They're all mixed
up in different orders. And so if

467
00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:29.320
you count how many possible orderings there
are of nine things, it's three hundred

468
00:45:29.320 --> 00:45:35.079
and sixty two thousand, eight hundred
and eighty. That means there's enough for

469
00:45:35.320 --> 00:45:39.880
ever, a different one for everyone. So we all have our own ordering,

470
00:45:40.599 --> 00:45:46.719
but of the same things. So
one of the messages for it all

471
00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:51.519
is that we have to deal with
the whole pops. That's all nine,

472
00:45:52.039 --> 00:45:54.920
not just the one and two we
like. It's the ones we don't like

473
00:45:55.039 --> 00:46:00.719
as well, are not necessarily equally
important, but have to be dealt with

474
00:46:01.599 --> 00:46:07.199
equally in the sense that you've got
to do them justice. So if your

475
00:46:07.239 --> 00:46:13.039
best thing is economics and your last
thing is esthetics, you can't just throw

476
00:46:13.199 --> 00:46:20.320
esthetics out. Oh you could be
Apple without its iPhone, you know,

477
00:46:22.599 --> 00:46:29.000
And so you know that's where we
are now. Is and doctor Smith,

478
00:46:29.000 --> 00:46:30.159
this has been beautiful. We've come
to the inn already. So this is

479
00:46:30.199 --> 00:46:34.239
what you've done, is you've narrated
your journey and helped us get to understand

480
00:46:34.239 --> 00:46:37.239
how it is that you are right
at this model after decades of work.

481
00:46:37.280 --> 00:46:40.239
It's amazing. In the last say
thirty seconds, what would you like to

482
00:46:40.280 --> 00:46:49.880
leave our listeners with or viewers with? I think it's basically a simple one,

483
00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:53.920
sense is Smith is, So in
everything you do, try to balance

484
00:46:55.079 --> 00:47:05.360
appreciation, influence and control. As
it's one thing to attend to your ideals,

485
00:47:05.480 --> 00:47:09.320
values and goals, but where we
actually go wrong is as we go

486
00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:15.559
through those we kind of get either
feel very powerful or not powerful, but

487
00:47:15.679 --> 00:47:21.800
we get out of kilter with power
and thinking of appreciation, influence and control

488
00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:27.960
is thinking about the whole of power. The whole of power is appreciation and

489
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:35.440
control, but it's it's manifest totally
differently. But if you learn how those

490
00:47:35.519 --> 00:47:42.800
three are manifest and then you get
the habit of checking out with each of

491
00:47:42.840 --> 00:47:45.199
them when you're do anything, you
may be a control and prefer control,

492
00:47:45.719 --> 00:47:51.159
but unless you practice appreciation as well, you will not be successful with your

493
00:47:51.159 --> 00:47:55.840
control. So on. So that's
the message in everything you do, balance

494
00:47:55.920 --> 00:48:02.840
the use of appreciation, influence,
and wonderful Bill, thank you very much.

495
00:48:02.840 --> 00:48:06.559
What a beautiful man, beautiful mind, beautiful heart. I'm so happy

496
00:48:06.559 --> 00:48:09.239
to share you with my listeners and
viewers and elevate their consciousness with your thinking

497
00:48:09.280 --> 00:48:14.079
and contribution. Thank you for being
on the show. Okay, and thank

498
00:48:14.119 --> 00:48:20.159
you so welcome. Absolutely, if
you want to learn more about this remarkable

499
00:48:20.199 --> 00:48:22.400
man in his work, it's really
quite profound. I promise you I've been

500
00:48:22.440 --> 00:48:25.000
studying. It's quite profound. I
want you to check it out. If

501
00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:30.559
you go to his website, it's
it's ODII dot com. So four letters

502
00:48:30.599 --> 00:48:36.079
odii dot com. Check out his
books, his articles, give it a

503
00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:38.519
read. Look at his color theory
as well. It's quite fascinating. And

504
00:48:38.599 --> 00:48:43.119
thanks again to our partnering sponsor work
Proud, which helps companies build a platform

505
00:48:43.159 --> 00:48:45.960
where your workforce receives meaningful feedback and
thanks for their work from people across your

506
00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:49.840
company. Last week, you you
missed the live show you know, catch

507
00:48:49.840 --> 00:48:52.719
it re your recorded podcast. We're
on the Aracindy Tysinger, the founder and

508
00:48:52.800 --> 00:48:57.440
chief Culture Officer of Regeneras, which
is a woman owned, woman led,

509
00:48:57.519 --> 00:49:01.679
heart centered and science based social impact
truly irriveting. An inspiring conversation of just

510
00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:06.440
how momss difference business can do in
the world, especially when it's operations are

511
00:49:06.559 --> 00:49:10.000
architected with purpose and consciousness, consciousness
and capitalism in mind, conscious capitalism.

512
00:49:10.039 --> 00:49:13.599
Excuse me. Next week we on
the air with Lisa Gable. She's the

513
00:49:13.639 --> 00:49:16.079
author of Turnaround. How to Change
Course when Things Are Going South. A

514
00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:20.800
perfect conversation for companies and leaders who
need to change course and how they can

515
00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:22.400
do so see you there. Remember
that works at least a third of our

516
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:31.599
life. So let's work on purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this week's program.

517
00:49:31.639 --> 00:49:36.400
Be sure to tune into Working on
Purpose, featuring your host, doctor

518
00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:42.119
Elise Cortez, each week on the
Voice America Empowerment Channel. Together, we'll

519
00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:49.519
create a world where business operates conscientiously, Leadership inspires impassioned performance, and employees

520
00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:53.119
are fulfilled in work that provides the
meaning and purpose they crave. See you

521
00:49:53.199 --> 00:49:55.400
there, Let's work on Purpose.