Recruiting and Developing Talent to Champion Tomorrow's Vision

WEBVTT

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortes. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working

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on Purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortes. Welcome back to

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the Working on a Purpose Show.
Thanks for tuning again this week. I'm

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your host, Elise Cortes. Join
you live from Dallas, which is home

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base for me. If you've been
tuning in for a while, you know

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this program is all about helping people
create more meaningful and purposeful lives and equipping

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leaders, insight organizations to make work
a rich and compelling part of life so

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employees thrive, give their best performance, and want to stay. I talk

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with my guests to draw on their
expertise and share my own experience consulting,

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speaking and developing workforces across the globe. Each week. In these conversations,

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I hope you walk away with something
you can immediately put to use, and

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if I can do anything to help
you along your journey. Go to my

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website at a leasecoretes dot com and
use the contact contact Me feature to message

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me and let's open a conversation and
explore what's going on for you and how

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I might be able to help.
Whether you want to learn how the vitally

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inspired living and Leading from Purpose leadership
program or consulting can help you develop you

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and your team's efficacy in motivating your
people to give their best while creating a

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meaning infuseed culture in your organization.
You want to see about joining a cash

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fire online community to stoke your own
passion, inspiration or purpose discovery, or

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provide this as a gift and benefit
to your team. You want to learn

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more or recommend a woman to submit
her story to the Women's anthology I'm curating,

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collecting stories from women across the globe
up to something it's called Passionately Striving

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and why women who persevere mndily to
live their purpose. Or finally, if

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you'd like me to speak for your
company or conference atting your rate, I'm

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glad we're connected and thanks for listening. Now onto this week's program with us

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today is Chris Stunn, who is
a partner and Chief Human Resource Officer at

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Kinetics, a national RPO recruiting firm
headquartered in Atlanta. He's also the founder

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of two industry leading blogs, Fistful
of Talent and The HR Capitalists, and

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has written over one hundred feature columns
at Workforce Management Magazine. He's built a

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training program for managers of people from
the ground up called Boss Leadership Skills for

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the Modern Manager. We'll be talking
about his business and his thought leadership,

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his passion to build great managers,
and his perspective on finding meaningful work.

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Chris join is today from Birmingham,
Alabama, where he's onside with the client.

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Chris, welcome to working on Purpose, Elice. Thanks for having me.

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It's great to be with you.
I don't even have to go to

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your website and click the contact me
button right now. You've got a special

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pass. Yeah, you got a
special pass. I'm here with you now.

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That's all that matters. I don't
need to go, although I will

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thank you for that for sure.
Thank you for that. And I've known

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you for years, Chris stun And
you know, really you've been a man

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about the planet and I've always I've
always known you as a business at a

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thought leader. That's just really who
you are to me. I mean,

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you've led HR departments. That's when
I first met you at several companies and

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invested in nine years ago. I
think it was joining founder Shannon Russo and

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what you're up to today. So
let's let you in with the rest of

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our listeners. I know you,
but they don't, So tell us a

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little bit about Genetics. Why are
you part of it and what does it

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do? Yeah, So Kinetics is
an URPO firm, and what that means

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is we do recruitment process outsourcing for
companies that need help. So at least

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if you think about it, most
people know recruiting as single position search,

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so think about that model and then
just really put it on steroids. What

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OURPO means is that for a lot
of companies that they're struggling in one section

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of hiring or another, we will
actually go in and be a recruiter of

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records. So our recruiters work under
the company's brand, They recruit with that

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client company's email addresses, and most
of the time we do that in conjunction

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with an existing talent acquisition recruiting team. We just become more capacity to help

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leaders and companies get the talent that
they need. So we're very much in

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the recruiting industry, but ourpo and
what I just described is really our flavor.

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Chris, you're reminding me. When
we did Cross Paths, I was

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in my recruitment part of my career
and that's how I started Human Capital some

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twenty years ago. And you know
what I loved about being a recruiter was

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one you got to be intimately part
of people's lives, their hopes, their

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dreams, what they wanted to do
with their lives and their work, and

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you got to be an ambassador on
behalf of the company. I loved it.

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It was great, gobs of fun
for me. Yeah, And what

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I would tell you at Lease is
that one of the reasons I made the

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decision to invest in Kinetics and enjoin
Shannon russo Is as an HR leader.

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You know, everything you just described
was true for me. I like the

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best time of my week, you
know, the best time of my day,

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although I didn't certainly didn't do it
every day, but the best part

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of my week multiple times a month
is when you hire the right person,

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when you're involved in a in a
great hire and you know it can be

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transformational for a department, for a
leader for the company. There's no better

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feeling. Right, It's the closest
thing to sales. Recruiting is that you'll

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find kind of in the human capital
space unless you're an entrepreneur like yourself,

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and you actually like sales services.
If you're working inside a company and you're

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in the human capital space, recruiting
great recruiting is sales. And I just

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love that connection and finding that right
that and closing that relationship and getting people

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to sign on. Nothing better,
like you said, completely with you.

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So, given that you've been at
this for quite some time, christ and

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you really do work at what you
your thought leadership and you know all the

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writing that you do in such and
so I wanted you to I ask you

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to think about a couple of big
lessons you've learned over your career as a

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business leader and now an owner that
made a sizable difference to your success.

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What would you tell us, H
Well, I mean it's a great question.

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You know. What I would say
is you know what's been effective for

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me and certainly this comes through and
a lot of the writing I do is

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I think you know, being an
authentic person and letting people inside the veil

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and understand like what makes me tick
as a leader, as a manager,

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talking openly and honestly, always being
transparent or certainly trying to be as transparent

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as I can. You know,
there's no such thing as one hundred percent

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transparency because you can't give all the
people the information all the time. But

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I think just being authentic, like
in being honest with people and telling people

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how I felt good, dad and
ugly, but also trying to build people

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up as you share that information and
tell them how they connect to the mission

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in question, how they can help
you make a difference, how or why

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it's important, what you can do
to help them achieve a different level in

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their career. I think just speaking
to all those things at least with a

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lot of authenticity. You know,
you don't have to do it. You

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know, if I if I had
a recommendation for anybody, I would say,

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find that level of authenticity and practice
it, and you don't have to

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do it like a least you don't
have to do it like Chris, find

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it within who you are and how
you identify with the world around you,

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but be authentic to that. And
I think when you're authentic with people,

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People naturally the right people naturally gravitate
towards you. So if you give people

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a glimpse to who you are as
a leader and what's important to you,

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what you're all about, what you
can do for them. What I love

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about this is that the people that
are most gettable for that message are going

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to naturally be attracted to working with
you, and subsequently, at least the

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people that maybe aren't a great fit
for you. If you're transparent, you're

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authentic, they're going to sense that
and they're going to opt out before you

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even have to make a decision about
whether to hire them. And so I

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think that authenticity and transmitting that is
really key. Certainly been the key for

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me, and I think it's key
for any leader as well. And again,

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you don't have to do it like
Elise or Chris, do it like

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you, but transmit those signals because
it's really going to be the core to

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a lot of the success you have. If you hide from that, elease,

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I think that's where you get in
trouble and you'll miss more often than

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you should in the hiring process,
and then you'll have to make a lot

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of tough decisions when people join your
team. I completely agree with you,

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Chris, and align with you on
that. And for you listeners who are

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saying, yeah, but you know, if people really knew me what I

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get to keep my job. And
I just really want to I really want

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to just address that because I coach
a lot of people, men and women,

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and you are you tell me you're
afraid to be really who you are

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in your roles and within your within
your organization. So I hope you will

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take Chris's advice to heart. Hey, atleast, can I say one more

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thing? Yeah? Please? Well
one more thing about that, Elise,

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and I'll be brief so we can
get onto the other things you want to

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talk about. Is there's a sliding
scale of authenticity based on the organization you

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work for. So when you're coaching
clients, Elise, somebody working at a

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very conservative company, authenticity means something
different, yes, than it does at

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a startup or in the software industry, et cetera, et cetera. We

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give like one hundred different examples.
But even if you're working for the most

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conservative company ever and you think you
have risk just by being a little more

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authentic, you don't have to be
at Google. You don't have to be

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in the Bay Area to be authentic. You can be author based not only

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on who you are, but in
the circumstances you're in. You can be

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more authentic than the other managers and
leaders at that very conservative company without taking

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a lot of risks. That was
Yeah, and that was a fantastic clarification.

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I think that will help our listeners
tremendously. Chris, thank you.

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That was That was awesome. I
give you way extra points for that.

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Thank you so much. Can you
call me anytime you want now? See

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Yeah, I love it. Yeah, all right. Well, so you

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kind sir, and the work that
you do and the business that you run

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and the various roles that you had
have had a pretty interesting seat at the

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table, I think. And so
from that vantage point, I would love

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for you to share what do you
think some of the most pressing issues business

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leaders are facing today? What have
you seen heard or no? Well,

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I mean it's peak economic cycle.
So you know, we're in this incredible

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economic cycle. Knock on wood,
you know, I hope there's not a

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recession around the corner. We're taking
this in December of twenty nineteen, and

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certainly there will be one at some
point. So just the cycle we're in

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trying to find the right talent for
any team has to be one of the

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biggest issues that the leaders have.
I think the other thing, at least

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I be USIULD to get your opinion
on this, is it's one thing to

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be effective at finding the talent you
need. It's the other thing to really

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attract and be able to attract the
right type of talent that's really transformational to

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what you can do with your business. So when I think about like the

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most pressing issues that a leader would
face today, it's not only hey,

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I've got to get these jobs filled
on my team and in my company,

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and I've got to find enough talent, but then I've also got to make

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sure, especially in the right spots, that I've got transformational talent that matches

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where I'm going maybe rather than where
I you know, at this point on

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a Tuesday in December. So I
think it's one thing. It's challenging enough

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just to find enough talent to scale
an organization and make sure you have what

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you need, but then it's like, you know, the transformational talent that's

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really going to help you go two
x three x, ten X, whatever

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it is, whatever your goal is, finding the transformational talent where you don't

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have to tell someone what to do. They're capable not only of doing the

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job, but they're also capable of
charting the path forward. That's the type

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of talent that all of us need. And you know, it's a it's

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a barrier to figure out what does
that look like? And once you define

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what that transformational talent looks like,
how do you go get it? And

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by the way, Alice and I'll
throw it back to you, that's directly

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linked to you being authentic and a
lot of your messaging both inside your company

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and outside your company because you seek
to talk to candidates because the people people

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can smell what they consider to be
a phony a mile away, and people

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have never had more options than they
have today about where they work and how

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they work. You know, like, not only are you competing against other

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companies, but you're also competing against
jobs that offer people the ability to do

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it from their homes and maybe you
don't have that. So that transformational talent,

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I just think it's directly linked.
Like if you're going to get your

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share of that, people have to
know who you are. You've got to

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sell kind of that vision. They
really have to believe in you or they'll

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never join you. Yeah. Absolutely, Chris. What I would add to

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that, and that you gave it
back to me in my court, is

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that in order to attract transformational talent, that means that you're not going to

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attract them at the level you are
today, as you say, they have

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to be able to take you into
the future that you desire, which is

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that vision you were talking about.
And now we're smack right into my camp.

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And that's where we get in that
inspirational leadership where you have painted a

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picture for where this bus is going
in a way that is so compelling that

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this person is like, I'm dropping
everything, I'm coming over right now.

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I want to play in your sandbox. Let's do this thing. And I

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think that is how you posit how
you attract transformational talent is you've got to

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paint that picture in such a way
that they know they're part of that,

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and they want to be part of
that, even if they get an offer

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for less money, they want to
play in this sandbox. Yeah. And

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at least one other thing I would
give you, like, here's a free

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tip for anybody that's looking for transformational
talent one really hot profile. So we

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do a lot of assessment work and
a lot of the searches we do,

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and a really hot profile right now
based on hey, can people help you

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get to where you want to go? Is someone who has low rules orientation,

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meaning they love the chaos. They
don't need you to have an operations

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manual setup for when they win your
company. In fact, they'll probably kind

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of flinch at that if you showed
it to them. So low rules orientation,

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which means they can deal with the
chaos, they can help you come

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up with the plan and the strategy, but high detail orientation, which means

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they can actually execute on all the
great stuff they dream up. That's in

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the simplest terms, when you're looking
at a candidate and you're wondering, is

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this transformational talent in front of me. There's a lot of other factors involved,

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but in the simplest terms, looking
for that profile is the best advice

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I have for people today. That
is gold. Chris Dunn, thank you

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so much. I think what we'll
do on that note, let's grab our

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first break there and then we'll come
back. I want to ask you more

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about the business roundtable position. But
let's grab our first break first. I'm

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your host, Alis Cortes. We've
been on the air with Chris dun who

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is a partner and chief Human of
Resource Officer at Kinetics, a national RPO

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recruiting firm headquartered in Atlanta. He's
also the founder of two industry leading blogs,

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This Full of Time Talent and The
HR Capitalist, and has written over

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one hundred future columns at Workforce Management
Magazine and is also the author of nine

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Phases of HR. He joined us
any from Birmingham, Alabama, where he's

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onsite with the client. Well,
we've been talking about his perspective on business

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and thought, leadership and hiring.
After the break, we're going to talk

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about one of his passions, building
great managers. Stay with us, we'll

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be right back. Alis Cortes is
a speaker and engagement and development catalyst.

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She designs and delivers professional development,
leadership and engagement workshops and can bring her

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expertise to your organization. She will
help ignite meaningful development within your workforce that

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will increase employee engagement, performance and
retention. To learn more or to invite

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Elise to speak to your organization,
please visit her at douww dot Elisecortes dot

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com. She would welcome the opportunity
to help get your employees working on purpose.

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This is working on Purpose with Elise
Cortes. To reach our program today,

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send an email to a lease Alise
at Aliscortes dot com. Now back

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to working on purpose. Thanks for
staying with us, and welcome back to

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working on purpose if you're just joining
us. My guest is Chris Dunn,

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who is a partner and chief human
Resource Officer at Kinetics, a national RPO

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recruiting firm headquartered in Atlanta. Is
also the founder of two industry leading blogs,

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fist Full of Talent and The hr
Capitalist, and has written over one

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hundred feature columns at Workforce Management Magazine. He built a training program for managers

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of people from the ground up called
Boss Leadership Skills for the Modern Manager.

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I'm your host Atlas Cortes, so
I wanted to ask you before we go

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on to your passion for building great
managers, Chris, I wanted to sneak

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in a question about the CEO business
roundtable position that was offered in August that

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is getting a lot of talk and
opinion around it and it's the one where

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they reorient the purpose of the corporation
from just serving shareholders to serving the full

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gamut of stakeholders including employees, customers, suppliers, and community and shareholders.

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What's your take on that, what's
your perspective on that? Well, I

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mean, you know, I think
we've seem like repeated like car crashes related

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to serving shareholders only, right the
latest one you know, with with we

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work just as people try and build
you know, these organizations, and they

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think about shareholder value only, it
seems like it it always ends up in

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a bad place, or you know, very often it does. So I

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can't argue with the logic that says
there has to be a more holistic approach.

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And certainly, you know, as
a recruiting company, a former HR

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pro somebody that thinks about, you
know, training managers a lot, and

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we're going to talk about that,
I think, you know, just dealing

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in engaging employees in a really positive
way is a great place to start.

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You know, I do believe it
sounds cliche, but I do believe that

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engaged employees who are treated well and
you know, can kind of see their

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goals coming to fruition for their career
at your company, are going to treat

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your customers better, your clients better, and I think all of that leads

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to shareholder results. So I do
believe, and I'm vibiously to get your

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take a lease. I think I
think there's a balanced approach that makes sense

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that issue. And I think we've
seen if you only focus on shareholder value,

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it's just car crash after car crash. I think that's a great way

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to describe at a car crash.
My perspective on it, just briefly is

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that I do think it's it's way
more healthy. If you focus on the

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serving overall whole versus just a shareholder, you got a better shot at making

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that. And I do think that
we as business people can do better than

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just serving the shareholders. We can
serve the community better, the employees,

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the customers better. That's a great
thing about business that there's so much power

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to it. So I'm very encouraged
that that has been offered. And of

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course I do follow conscious capitalism.
I'm a member here of the organization and

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the movement here in Dallas. Next
week on the radio show, I have

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doctor Raj Desodia talking about firms of
endearment. The book that he co authored,

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which is essentially some of the beginning
of conscious capitalism and also embraces just

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that particular statement. So I'm just
trying to talk to as many business people

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as I can about it to surface
concerns or a better way forward. So

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thanks for weiyne in with me.
Sure, well, let's move on to

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one of your other great passions.
You have a few of them, but

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one of them you said to me
in our initial conversation, is that you

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really like to train great managers.
And so first I want to know where

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the passion came from and why managers. So the passion really comes from my

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background release as an HR leader.
I think, you know, serving in

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fortune five hundred companies all the way
down to kind of you know, ventor

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our equity back startups. You know, you're only as good as your as

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your weak as manager, and so
many issues that you might have from an

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employee relations perspective or cultural issues can
be resolved by just having better conversations between

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managers and employees. So kind of
the impetus, you know, and kind

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of why I've always been focused on
that is just my serve service as an

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HR leader so I've always been involved
in bootstrapping training from the ground up and

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making sure that managers of people get
exposed to, Hey, what do I

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need to do to really like deliver
a quality conversation in this area or that

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area with my team members who report
to me. That kind of where it

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comes from. I'm just onlys seeing
that. You know, great cultures can

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be derailed by bad managers, and
bad cultures can be uplifted by managers who

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just kind of naturally know what they're
doing. So I wonder is there a

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better way to train those managers?
And that's kind of why I got involved

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in in the Boss Leadership series Awesome, and I think it probably would be

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extremely useful for our listeners. Chris, since we do use the word leadership

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a lot on this program, you're
distinguishing managers from leaders. Yes, yeah,

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I really am. So. You
know, I put this series together.

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It's called Boss Leadership Skills for the
Modern Manager. And you'll laugh at

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the elease it's kind of hard to
you know, we dance this continuum.

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I do view managers of people as
having different needs than true leaders at the

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executive level, yes, And basically
what I mean by that at least says

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for managers of people, I just
really want you to do great things when

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you talk to your people, and
hey, do I want you to have

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a vision for where you want to
take your team? Hey, that would

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be awesome, and that would be
great, But how about we just get

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through like this five minute coaching conversation. You've got to have one of your

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people about something uncomfortable. You really
don't know how to get into it.

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So I'm kind of looking for a
more practical approach to helping managers of people

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have great conversations. That's kind of
my distinction between a manager of people and

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what their needs are versus what you
do with visionary leadership and all of the

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things that are connected to that.
Yeah, I don't remember exactly the way

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this was distinguished, but I remember
hearing somebody speak one time saying that when

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we talk about managers, we're usually
saying is they're administering the day to day

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work and leaders maybe are inspiring the
vision and managers are handling, you know,

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the day to day workload and trying
to remove obstacles that people can get

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things done, and maybe leaders are
considering the strategy or so those really and

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I think you use the phrase boots
on the ground when we spoke last time,

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which I thought was just perfect and
apropos. So I guess the first

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thing I want to know here is
what kind of challenges or mistakes do you

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see, especially new managers dealing with
when they first start out. Well,

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I think the biggest thing alis and
love to get your take on this.

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I think the biggest thing is they
don't know how to get into conversations.

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So, you know, you go, you know you're a new manager,

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maybe you got promoted from within,
maybe you joined the company, but maybe

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it's the first time you've been a
manager. And when stuff happens where it's

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going to feel like confrontation to you
to have a conversation. Most normal people

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don't like confrontation and they're not sure
how to get into the conversation. What

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invariably happens a lee and this is
a mistake. The mistake is people wait

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to have conversations and to coach the
people who report to them because they don't

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know how to get them the conversations. So by waiting, everything gets worse

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at lease. So the biggest mistake
is you wait to have conversations. You

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wait to coach, you wait to
give them feedback, you just go right

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down the list. If you wait, you lose. So that's why I

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think it's a key that managers have
better tools to understand that, hey,

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they can have conversations and you know
what, if it's handled the right way

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and your personality, but you hit
certain benchmarks, nobody dies and really no

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one's upset. It feels very natural. So to go back to just answer

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your question clearly and concisely, the
biggest mistake people make is they wait to

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have conversations. You know, I
would agree. I spent a couple of

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years, Chris doing a fair amount
of new leader, new manager training excuse

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me, new supervisor management training for
various organizations, including Texas Instruments here in

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Dallas, as well as in Mexico
and Spanish. And what I appreciated about

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that program was it also got into
delegation, time management skills, how to

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give effective feedback. I think those
are really important and also helping that person

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step away from being an individual contributor
to now someone who is trying delay is

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the work of other people who used
to be their peers. I think that's

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you know, that's kind of a
hard change for a lot of people.

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Yeah, And I think the other
thing, at least that the biggest you

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know, another mistake. Managers wait
first of all, they wait. I

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think secondly, there's this instinct that
feedback and like, the most important conversations

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have to be incredibly formal when they
come from a manager. I'm the authority

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and I've GOTBAC. That may not
feel great. So now I have to

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set up a meeting. I've got
to send you an invite. It's going

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to be in the conference room or
in my office. Maybe I'm coy and

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I don't say what the meeting's really
about, but it really doesn't have to

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be that formal. In fact,
the best conversations you get the most behavioral

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change, even if you plan them
for days, are going to come off

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as incredibly informal. And the other
key is managers will talk more than they

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listen. And the science behind all
of this shows us that behavioral change,

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you've got the best shot at getting
behavioral change if you talk less than the

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person you're trying to coach and actually
engage to get that behavioral changed. Like,

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whatever the situation is, there's a
variety of tools you desperately need that

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person to engage, talk, talk
about their challenges, talk about what their

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ideas are, and really just soak
up some of that airtime. If you

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do all the talking as a manager, you'll lose, and you'll like lose

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a lot and you'll wonder what happened. So we try and deal with all

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those things in the Boss series that
we've developed well and to that, and

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I wanted to hear more about that
and help our listeners understand it as well.

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So you created and run the Boss
Leadership series, So tell us about

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it. What are kind of the
nuts and bolts of it? What's it

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designed to do? How does it
work? Yeah? So it's so I

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wanted to do it at least because
I'm kind of a human capital nerd and

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you are, and I love you
for that. I now, So I

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had on my bucket list of things
that hey, I'm tired of, like

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training that's way too formal for managers
of people. So I've got a blog.

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You mentioned it, like you know
in the in the intro. I've

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got a blog, a couple of
blogs. Hr Capitalists is one fist full

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of talent. Really, what I
wanted to do training for managers? That

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was in an informal voice that would
make them smile. So we've created a

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series of seven modules that includes things
like goal setting, performance management, there's

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like coaching, like employees. There, there's like a change management portion of

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it. Seven modules. They can
be configured from anywhere from a half day

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to two days. We mix them
up for different clients and we run managers

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through those series, and it's really
designed just to help them again understand and

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the most important conversations, understand what
the science says about their relationship with their

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employees, and to give them simple
tools that they can deliver within the framework

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of their own personality to get the
best results with the people who rely on

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them for guidance. And what we
find across all seven modules a lease is

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that at least if you're reporting to
me and I want to be an effective

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manager, I've got to make it
informal. I've got to make sure that

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you participate. So in every tool
that we give across thesels the modules,

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I've got to get you talking,
because if you talk, it doesn't mean

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I lose control of the conversation.
It just means that you're coming up with

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some of the ideas. And of
course I've got to be nimble enough.

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If you give me stuff that's not
great, I got to be nimble enough

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to deflect the stuff that's not great, use the stuff that's good, use

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your ideas in whatever situation we're dealing
with, and then close for what's going

408
00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:26.759
to happen in the future. So
across all those modules, that's really what

409
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:32.519
we're trying to do is we're trying
to identify issues that need to be corrected,

410
00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:36.640
things that we need the teammate to
do, and we're trying to teach

411
00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:42.079
those managers of people to do it
in a real informal way that really engages

412
00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:47.279
the employee and really, by the
way, makes the employee feel like that

413
00:30:47.480 --> 00:30:52.839
manager has what's in it for them, them being the employee at the top

414
00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:56.039
of their mind. So it's very
much a developmental series in that capacity as

415
00:30:56.079 --> 00:31:00.160
well. Sounds awesome to me,
and of course, you know, oh,

416
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:00.960
I love this kind of work.
That's a lot of what I do,

417
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:04.680
being able to take people from where
they are today to their future.

418
00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:10.839
And so you told me on the
phone, you've had twenty five hundred managers

419
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:14.880
come through this program. That's astounding. So who stands out as someone to

420
00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:18.519
celebrate, help us understand why does
this stuff work? Well, I think

421
00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:22.640
you know what's humbling for me,
and I'll give you an example. So

422
00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:30.240
two weeks ago, I was at
Exit eighteen in Valdosta, Georgia, Okay.

423
00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:36.079
And Valdosta, Georgia is great town, Valdosta State University. I've hired

424
00:31:36.119 --> 00:31:40.000
people from there. It's about three
hours south of Atlanta. It's the last

425
00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:42.559
exit before you get on Florida on
Interstate seventy five. But it's kind of

426
00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:47.599
like fifty thousand people. And we
were there to do training for a healthcare

427
00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:51.200
company. And what I love about
this is we had twenty five managers in

428
00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:52.920
there. We spent a couple of
days with them. And what I love

429
00:31:53.039 --> 00:31:57.319
who stands out what I would tell
you is in every training series we do,

430
00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:00.200
and I have trainers that work for
me and with me, so I

431
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:06.200
don't do every training session myself.
But it's amazing, Elise, And this

432
00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:09.720
is the thing that really charges my
batteries. In any company, if someone

433
00:32:09.759 --> 00:32:16.839
has risen to the level where they're
now managing people, there are incredible stars

434
00:32:17.559 --> 00:32:23.000
in every company that are really Some
of them are naturals and some of them

435
00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:27.599
are not naturals, but they're super
hungry for the tools. So what do

436
00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:30.319
we tell you, Like, we
did the session in Valdosta with twenty five

437
00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:37.000
managers of people, and we had, like, no joke, Elise,

438
00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:40.960
we had like ten or eleven stars
in their own right in that class.

439
00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:45.039
Now, a couple of them were
naturals. A couple of them just did

440
00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:51.359
it and they came out of the
loom talking like we want people to talk

441
00:32:51.400 --> 00:32:54.839
to employees as managers of people.
They just like naturally did it. But

442
00:32:55.000 --> 00:33:01.720
the other nine or ten really took
the tools in really just like blossomed over

443
00:33:01.759 --> 00:33:06.160
the two day period. You can
just tell that they're going to get it.

444
00:33:06.200 --> 00:33:08.680
So who stands out? It's funny. At least over half the people

445
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:13.480
in every class we do stand out
because they all come from different walks of

446
00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:17.559
life. There's a lot of diversity
in every class we do across multiple factors.

447
00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:22.400
But people get it and they're hungry
for the tools. I love it.

448
00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:27.920
I love witnessing that transformation. So
I'm right there within your back pocket.

449
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:30.400
Let's grab our last break here,
Chris. I'm your host, Elise

450
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:34.160
Cortes. We'll bet on the air
with Chris Stunn, who is a partner

451
00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:38.039
and chief human Resources officer at Kinetics, a national RPO recruiting firm headquartered in

452
00:33:38.079 --> 00:33:42.759
Atlanta. He's also the founder of
two industry leading blogs, fist Full of

453
00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:45.440
Talent and The HR Capitalist, and
has written over one hundred future columns at

454
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:51.319
Workforce Management Magazine and is the author
of nine Faces of HR. He joins

455
00:33:51.400 --> 00:33:53.160
us today from Birmingham, Alabama,
where he's on site for a client.

456
00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:57.720
After the break, we're going to
talk about his perspective on finding meaningful work.

457
00:33:57.880 --> 00:34:08.119
Stay with us, We'll be right
back. Alis Cortes is a speaker

458
00:34:08.199 --> 00:34:14.719
and engagement and development catalyst. She
designs and delivers professional development, leadership and

459
00:34:14.880 --> 00:34:19.719
engagement workshops and can bring her expertise
to your organization. She will help ignite

460
00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:24.239
meaningful development within your workforce that will
increase employee engagement, performance and retention.

461
00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:29.519
To learn more or to invite Elise
to speak to your organization, please visit

462
00:34:29.559 --> 00:34:35.159
her at www dot Elisecortes dot com. She would welcome the opportunity to help

463
00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:45.920
get your employees working on purpose.
This is working on purpose with Elise Cortes.

464
00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:52.440
To reach our program today, send
an email to a lease Alise at

465
00:34:52.480 --> 00:35:00.480
elisecortes dot com. Now back to
working on purpose. Thanks saying with us,

466
00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:02.320
and welcome back to working on purpose
if you're just tuning in. My

467
00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:06.480
guest is Chris Dunn, who is
a partner and chief human resource Officer at

468
00:35:06.519 --> 00:35:10.280
Kinetics, a national RPO recruiting firm
headquartered in Atlanta. Is also the founder

469
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:14.639
of two industry leading blogs, fist
Full of Talent and The hr Capitalist,

470
00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:17.760
and has written over one hundred future
columns at Workforce Management Magazine. He built

471
00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:22.079
a training program for managers of people
from the ground up called Boss Leadership Skills

472
00:35:22.119 --> 00:35:25.800
for the Modern Manager. I'm your
host, Alice Cortez, So Chris,

473
00:35:25.840 --> 00:35:30.119
for this last segment here, I
really wanted to extract what I can of

474
00:35:30.119 --> 00:35:34.320
that heart and minding experience of yours
about the world of work for those individuals

475
00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:38.559
or gallivanting across the globe. So
chirst, let me situate listeners. If

476
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:42.440
you don't know this stat it's kind
of kind of amazing that, according to

477
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:45.719
Gallup, eighty five percent of the
global workforce doesn't want to go to work

478
00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:51.119
on Monday morning or whenever your shift
starts, and in the US that figure

479
00:35:51.159 --> 00:35:53.239
is actually sixty percent. So we're
better, but we still have a long

480
00:35:53.320 --> 00:35:57.599
way to go. So, Chris, what do you think is missing in

481
00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:01.239
today's workforce for those numbers? So
I've got a question for you first at

482
00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:06.639
lease, why do you think the
numbers lower in the US that we're more

483
00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:07.840
engaged in the rest of the world. What's going on in the rest of

484
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:13.519
the world. Any insight in that, I do have insight. I think

485
00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:15.800
the reason that we're a little better
offer in the States than maybe other parts

486
00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:20.519
of the world is that we do
I think we do give more focus to

487
00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:23.519
it than maybe other parts of the
world so far. I think I think

488
00:36:23.599 --> 00:36:29.880
a lot of the American based organizations
do recognize that they need to make work

489
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:32.800
a compelling place for people or else
they're just not going to win in business.

490
00:36:32.880 --> 00:36:37.760
And I think maybe there are other
pockets in the world where they haven't

491
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:42.199
quite subscribed to that belief system.
Yeah, that's a good point. You

492
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:45.480
know. What I see in those
numbers release is like when I look at

493
00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:51.199
the gall Up stuff and I look
at you know, however you describe it

494
00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:53.920
fully engage, somewhat engaged, and
there's a lot of different like tags on

495
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:59.000
that. Really, I'm like,
I'm looking for okay, is somebody willing

496
00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:05.400
to get of discretionary effort? Ye, which means you could you could say,

497
00:37:05.480 --> 00:37:08.599
well, I'm not you know,
I'm not dreading going to work.

498
00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:14.159
But I think the question at least
would be is that person going to give

499
00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:20.519
either me or the company discretionary effort
that they didn't have to give a discretionary

500
00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:23.039
effort? You know most people know
what I'm talking about. It just means,

501
00:37:23.079 --> 00:37:27.079
hey, is somebody going to give
me kind of their heart, soul

502
00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:30.360
of mind, tell me to like
figure stuff out today? Are they just

503
00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:34.239
going to do whatever's pushed in front
of them. I think it comes down

504
00:37:34.239 --> 00:37:37.599
to like people like, you know, some things that are involved, like

505
00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:44.320
are they intellectually curious? I do
think like having a great manager is a

506
00:37:44.360 --> 00:37:46.880
part of that that wants to grow
you. I think at least correct me

507
00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:51.440
if I'm wrong. But like some
of the questions and we're I'll called the

508
00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:55.880
Gallop twelve, which is kind of
those twelve like core questions that are on

509
00:37:55.920 --> 00:37:59.800
a lot of engagement surveys that came
from Gallup. A lot of people have

510
00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:05.559
borrowed and stolen them, which I'm
sure Gallup's fine with. By the way,

511
00:38:06.719 --> 00:38:08.559
like one of them. So if
you recognize this one, at least

512
00:38:08.599 --> 00:38:12.440
one of them is at work,
I have a chance to do what I

513
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:17.199
do best every day. Does that
one ring true? Yeah? Yeah,

514
00:38:17.239 --> 00:38:22.000
I mean I mean ring true in
terms of engagement or from my perspective,

515
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:27.079
well, I mean does That's certainly
part of the gallop twelve. Another one

516
00:38:27.119 --> 00:38:31.519
that comes to mind is at work, there's someone concerned about my development?

517
00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:36.199
Right? And I think both those
questions kind of speak to the fact that,

518
00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:37.719
you know, hey, I know
there's going to be bad stuff that

519
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:43.000
I got to do that I don't
really enjoy. But is there somebody at

520
00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:46.920
my company that kind of knows what
charges my batteries and what I really like

521
00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:51.920
to do, and what my super
skill is, what my ninja's skill is,

522
00:38:52.519 --> 00:38:55.360
and do they try and help me
get a position where I can use

523
00:38:55.400 --> 00:39:00.119
that? So even if I've got
some battery draining going on at work,

524
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:04.360
do I get a chance to charge
my batteries every once in a while.

525
00:39:04.840 --> 00:39:08.679
I think that probably comes down to
that person's manager just trying to understand what

526
00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:14.320
motivates somebody. And you know,
none of us have jobs that you know,

527
00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:19.000
are one hundred percent filled with stuff
that's just incredible. But we all

528
00:39:19.000 --> 00:39:22.480
want jobs where we get a chance
to do what we do best. And

529
00:39:22.519 --> 00:39:25.960
I think it's like as a manager
figured out what that is for the individual

530
00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:29.960
in question, and when they do
and when they try and give that person

531
00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:31.519
a chance to do at a least, I kind of think you get the

532
00:39:31.599 --> 00:39:38.199
discretionary effort, which I think even
transcends that sixty percent number who maybe aren't

533
00:39:38.239 --> 00:39:43.400
dreading or I guess are dreading going
into work. So it's forty percent that

534
00:39:43.480 --> 00:39:46.239
aren't. I think there's a there's
a subset of that forty percent which is

535
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:50.519
really where you want to get there, give you discretionary effort. How do

536
00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:54.199
you feel? Well, yes,
I will tell you that I have done

537
00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:59.599
employee engagement assessment work over the years, and it's really interesting when you look

538
00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:02.920
at people that are you know,
strongly engaged versus engaged. That's a big

539
00:40:02.920 --> 00:40:08.079
difference rate there, and then those
that are disengaged versus strongly disengaged, and

540
00:40:08.159 --> 00:40:14.119
you start to look at how the
strongly engaged pull the organization forward, and

541
00:40:14.719 --> 00:40:19.079
you know, the disengaged and the
strongly disengaged pull it back. And so

542
00:40:19.400 --> 00:40:22.440
having finding a way to and I
love your point about leaders and managers recognizing

543
00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:24.719
what does this person love, what
lights them up, and how can I

544
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:29.360
give her more of that or help
them grow into more of that. I

545
00:40:29.360 --> 00:40:34.239
think that that moves that needle substantially
more in to that sixty percent figure,

546
00:40:34.280 --> 00:40:36.920
and of course we want it to
be higher than that. But you know,

547
00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:40.679
of course what there's also the talk
these days about helping to enable more

548
00:40:40.719 --> 00:40:44.719
employees to do that for themselves.
It's not all just on the manager the

549
00:40:44.760 --> 00:40:47.360
leaders to do that and wave the
magic loan. It's our wand it's up

550
00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:52.440
to the individual employee too to take
accountability and ownership over their own on what

551
00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:58.039
we call today fulfillment, not just
engagement. But there's so much that can

552
00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:00.760
be done, which of course is
why I get up morning. Yeah,

553
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:04.639
there's so much to do out there
in the world. You know, one

554
00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:08.280
great example I would give you,
like the impact of a great manager leader.

555
00:41:08.360 --> 00:41:13.639
Alas says, let's fee you're having
a coaching conversation. There's parts of

556
00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:17.400
the job that just kind of suck, and you do them because you have

557
00:41:17.480 --> 00:41:21.400
to et cetera, et cetera.
Not you at least I know your job

558
00:41:21.559 --> 00:41:27.000
is incredible and rewarding on all levels. But a manager has a conversation with

559
00:41:27.079 --> 00:41:34.280
one of their direct reports and they
say, hey, help to work every

560
00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:38.239
day, how can we make this
more efficient? Bring me at the end

561
00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:42.800
of the day. What we're trying
to do is we're trying to jam down

562
00:41:43.239 --> 00:41:45.159
the parts of your job that sucks. By the way, that's a disengaging

563
00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:52.079
part for your employee. Let's jam
down the percentage of your job that sucks,

564
00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:54.880
Like, help us get it more
efficient so we can give you more

565
00:41:54.920 --> 00:41:59.519
time to do the things you're great
at. The charge your batteries, that

566
00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:01.800
really stuff you want to do,
but we can't get there until you help

567
00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:07.039
me here. So it's like the
it's the flavors of just the acknowledgment of

568
00:42:07.079 --> 00:42:10.800
the manager that says, hey,
I understand this is hard, but here's

569
00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:15.000
why we're doing it because I know
you're great at this, but we can't

570
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:19.159
get to it until we become more
efficient and do things differently here. So

571
00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:22.320
there's this there's this ab and flow, push and pull, however you want

572
00:42:22.360 --> 00:42:27.320
to say it, that goes on
in the workplace. And I think a

573
00:42:27.400 --> 00:42:30.320
good manager is always pointing people to
the fact of hey, I know what

574
00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:35.519
you're good at. But we got
to deal with all of this sucky stuff,

575
00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:39.880
and we've got to deal with it
better, quicker, maybe eliminate it

576
00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:43.920
so you can get to the parts
of the job that you really want to

577
00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:46.639
get to. And most people don't. Most people don't take time to do

578
00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:52.719
that. The great managers do.
That's that's incredibly useful, Chris, very

579
00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:55.760
very That gives a place for managers, leaders and employees to stand on.

580
00:42:55.840 --> 00:43:00.280
So that's that's fantastic. Now,
speaking of that, you and your team

581
00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:05.719
have a tremendous Spanish point into the
heart and soul of people who are looking

582
00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:09.840
to change jobs. So what do
you hear people driving to want to leave

583
00:43:09.880 --> 00:43:13.719
their current form to seek something new. What's going on? What do they

584
00:43:13.800 --> 00:43:17.039
tell you? Well, I mean
money. Money is onlys an issue,

585
00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:23.119
so people will find themselves in bad
spots, you know, just from an

586
00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:29.519
economic perspective with you know, providing
for the family. So money is always

587
00:43:29.559 --> 00:43:32.039
there. But once money becomes even
it's off the table. A lease,

588
00:43:32.599 --> 00:43:39.800
it almost always comes down to perceived
instability with a manager, department, or

589
00:43:39.880 --> 00:43:45.519
company, and it can occur on
any of the three levels. So not

590
00:43:45.639 --> 00:43:49.360
that our recruiters would ever do this. A lease because this would be a

591
00:43:49.400 --> 00:43:52.559
form of manipulation. But if we
have a great candidate and they're wondering if

592
00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:55.559
they want to make the jump to
one of our great clients, one of

593
00:43:55.559 --> 00:44:00.280
the things we have to understand is
what their motivations are and where they have

594
00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:04.960
feared out and uncertainty. And we've
got to ask tough questions about that because

595
00:44:05.039 --> 00:44:09.199
when people move once the money thing
is even or what you know, once

596
00:44:09.239 --> 00:44:15.280
the money thing is not the most
important thing, that almost always comes down

597
00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:20.400
to perceived instability. Again at the
company level, the department level, or

598
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:24.519
the manager level. That makes complete
sense. We're getting darn close to being

599
00:44:24.519 --> 00:44:27.920
out of time, Chris, but
I just want to grab you for this.

600
00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:30.159
One of the last questions here is
I'd love for you to share with

601
00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:35.719
us any notable initiatives that you've seen
companies undertake to make the workplace more compelling

602
00:44:35.760 --> 00:44:38.199
for their employees, whether that's in
their hiring practices, their development. What

603
00:44:38.239 --> 00:44:43.679
are you seeing out there? Well, I think you know, not to

604
00:44:43.679 --> 00:44:46.679
be incredibly selfish, you know,
with with like what we do. I

605
00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:52.920
think there's a couple of things going
on. I think some interesting things and

606
00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:57.039
I could speak for an hour about
this, but I think companies that are

607
00:44:57.079 --> 00:45:02.480
really trying to recruit better and trying
to get transformational talent are probably taking the

608
00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:08.239
time to speak directly to transformational talent
and what they do. From an employment

609
00:45:08.239 --> 00:45:13.639
branding perspective, so if you look
at somebody's career site, rather than simply

610
00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:19.400
serving up jobs, the companies that
are really trying to get directly involved with

611
00:45:19.719 --> 00:45:23.360
positions and areas that really drive their
business are really trying to tell a lot

612
00:45:23.360 --> 00:45:29.199
of stories about people actually doing the
work inside the company, and they're becoming

613
00:45:29.360 --> 00:45:36.320
incredibly granular about how they market those
messages to the outside world. So from

614
00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:42.400
a recruiting perspective, we see people
getting more aggressive and more granular with their

615
00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:45.920
employment brands. And then, you
know, I think the other thing is

616
00:45:46.039 --> 00:45:53.119
people are really investing in development dollars
for their workforces, and they do that

617
00:45:53.159 --> 00:46:00.559
a couple of different ways. Right, they make development dollars available to the

618
00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:05.360
rank and file employee. They're also
training their managers. But when they do

619
00:46:05.480 --> 00:46:08.639
it for the rank and file employee, it's really interesting. I don't know

620
00:46:08.679 --> 00:46:13.519
if you saw the recent Amazon commercials
that are out there that are kind of

621
00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:17.079
like really touting their tuition aid program
and one of the one of the people

622
00:46:17.199 --> 00:46:20.960
in the video, By the way, a form of employment branding, which

623
00:46:20.960 --> 00:46:24.119
I just spoke about is basically says
something along the lines up, so you're

624
00:46:24.159 --> 00:46:28.880
going to pay for my college and
then you're going to let me leave.

625
00:46:29.719 --> 00:46:32.679
And I think you know what's interesting
to me in that, to me is

626
00:46:32.679 --> 00:46:37.960
that people that are spending development dollars, whether it's training, whether it's tuition

627
00:46:37.079 --> 00:46:43.800
aid, whatever you have, are
really doing that with the message that,

628
00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:45.360
hey, we're just trying to make
you as good as you can be.

629
00:46:46.239 --> 00:46:50.360
And if the time comes in in
your future where you have to leave,

630
00:46:50.360 --> 00:46:52.480
we're going to shake your hands and
we're going to ask you for a referral,

631
00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:55.360
you know, if you find something
better. But while you're here,

632
00:46:55.800 --> 00:46:58.920
we're really going to invest in you. And at least you know, you

633
00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:00.920
know kind of the outcome of it, of you know, all the data

634
00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:06.639
shows that when you invest and you
send that message that we're going to invest

635
00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:12.119
without fear of you leaving, a
funny thing happens people actually stay longer.

636
00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:19.159
Right, Yes, how beautiful,
that's kind of the deal. Beautiful.

637
00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:22.079
Chris, No, I didn't know
about the Amazon ads, but I quite

638
00:47:22.159 --> 00:47:24.039
like that well, we've come to
the end of our time together, but

639
00:47:24.079 --> 00:47:27.880
I want to always give you the
last word you the guests. So in

640
00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:30.559
say thirty seconds or so, Chris, what would you like to leave listeners

641
00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:34.800
with today? You know what I
would say for and I know you have

642
00:47:34.840 --> 00:47:39.519
a huge leadership audience, Alise.
I think the more authentic you can become

643
00:47:40.440 --> 00:47:45.239
and the better coach you are for
all the people who report to you,

644
00:47:45.320 --> 00:47:50.360
the more you can be a mentor
for two and three levels down the organization.

645
00:47:51.039 --> 00:47:54.679
The more open you are, the
more informal and authentic you can be

646
00:47:54.840 --> 00:48:00.440
where people see the real you.
You just become a magnet. And I

647
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:04.800
think in addition to everything that you
teach and cancel people on, at least

648
00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:08.960
that's the one thing that I would
focus people to. Let people feel like

649
00:48:09.079 --> 00:48:13.480
whether when they talk to you,
your social accounts, whatever it is,

650
00:48:13.480 --> 00:48:16.679
your linked in profile, let them
feel it. You get a window inside

651
00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:21.800
to you the leader that other other
leaders don't provide, and you'd be amazed.

652
00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:25.039
For a magnet, you become fantastic
way to finish, Chris, thank

653
00:48:25.079 --> 00:48:28.079
you so much. I am so
glad you were willing to come on here

654
00:48:28.119 --> 00:48:30.119
with me and dance with me here
on your waves. Thank you so much

655
00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:37.840
for joining your heart, soul and
authenticity. So Leaderie, you're welcome listeners.

656
00:48:37.880 --> 00:48:39.760
If you want to learn more about
Chris dun Kinetics, the Boss Program

657
00:48:39.760 --> 00:48:45.400
for Managers, or Chris's Thought Leadership, visit kinetics HR let me spell that

658
00:48:45.440 --> 00:48:51.480
for you. It's KI n E
t I XHR dot com. Last week

659
00:48:51.480 --> 00:48:53.480
I missed the live show you can
always catch it be recorded podcast. We

660
00:48:53.480 --> 00:48:57.920
were on the year with doctor Gleb
Siperski, the author of Never Go with

661
00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:01.480
Your Gut, How Pioneering leaders make
the best decisions and avoid business disasters.

662
00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:07.159
We talked about his mission to educate
about one hundred plus known cognitive biases and

663
00:49:07.239 --> 00:49:10.280
to protect leaders from dangerous judgment ras
resulting from them by developing the most effective

664
00:49:10.280 --> 00:49:14.719
decision making strategies. Next week,
we'll be on the air with none other

665
00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:17.519
than Santa Roni and Missus Clause as
we settle into the close of the year

666
00:49:17.559 --> 00:49:21.880
and celebrate the magic of the season. We'll be doing a Facebook live stream

667
00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:23.760
as well, so be sure enjoy
that. See you there. Remember that

668
00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:27.480
work is at least a third of
our life, so let's work on purpose.

669
00:49:30.039 --> 00:49:34.599
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program, be sure to tune in to

670
00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:38.400
Working on Purpose, featuring your host, Alis Cortes, each week on the

671
00:49:38.519 --> 00:49:45.159
Voice America Empowerment Channel. This week, find your life's purpose at work.