Recruiting and Developing Talent to Champion Tomorrow's Vision

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortez. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working

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on Purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortez. Welcome back to

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the Working on Purpose Show. Thanks
for tuning again this week on your host,

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Elise Cortez. Join you live from
Dallas, which is home base for

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me. If you've been tuning in
for a while, you know this program

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is all about helping people create more
meaningful and purposeful lives and equipping leaders inside

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organizations to make work a rich and
compelling part of life so employees thrive,

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give their best performance, and want
to stay. I'll talk with my guest

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to draw on their expertise and share
my own experience consulting speaking developing workforces across

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the globe. Each week. In
these conversations, I hope you walk away

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with something you can immediately put to
use and if I can do anything to

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help you along your journey, Go
to my website at a lease Cortez dot

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com and use the contact me feature
to message me and let's open a conversation

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and explore what's going on for you
and how I might be able to help.

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Whether you want to learn how the
vitally inspired living and Leading from Purpose,

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leadership program or consulting can help you
develop you and your team's efficacy in

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motivating your people to give their best
while creating a meaning infused culture and your

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organization. You want to see about
joining a cash fire online community to stoke

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your own passion, inspiration or purpose
discovery, or provide this as a gift

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and benefit to your team. You
want to learn more or recommend a woman

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to submit her story to the women's
anthology I'm curating, collecting stories from women

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across the globe up to something it's
called Passionately Striving in why women who persevere

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midily to live their purpose. Or
finally, if you like me to speak

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for your company or conference atting a
rate, I'm glad we're connected and thanks

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for listening. Now on to this
week's program with us today is Chris Stunn,

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who was a partner and chief human
resource officer at Kinnectic's, a national

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RPO recruiting firm headquartered in Atlanta.
He's also the founder of two industry leading

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blogs, fist Full of Talent and
The HR Capitalists, and has written over

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one hundred feature columns at Workforce Management
Magazine. He's built a training program for

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managers of people from the ground up
called Boss Leadership Skills for the Modern Manager.

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We'll be talking about his business and
his thought leadership, his passion to

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build great managers, and his perspective
on finding meaningful work. Chris joines today

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from Birmingham, Alabama, where he's
onside with a client. Chris, welcome

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to working on Purpose, Elise.
Thanks for having me. It's great to

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be with you. I don't even
have to go to your website and click

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the contact me button right because no, you've got a special pass. Yeah,

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you've got a special pass. I'm
here with you now. That's all

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that matters. I don't need to
go, although I will thank you for

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that for sure. Thank you for
that. And I've known you for years,

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Chris stun and you know, really
you've been a man about the planet

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and I've always I've always known you
as a business and a thought leader.

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That's just really who you are to
me. I mean, you've led HR

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departments. That's when I first met
you at several companies and invested in nine

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years ago. I think it was
joining founder Shannon Russel and what you're up

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to today. So let's let you
in with the rest of our listeners.

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I know you, but they don't
tell us a little bit about Kinetics.

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Why are you part of it?
And what does it do? Yeah,

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so Kinetics is an RPO firm,
and what that means is we do recruitment

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process outsourcing for companies that need help. So at least if you think about

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it, most people know recruiting as
single position search, so think about that

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model and then just really put it
on steroids. What URPO means is that

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for a lot of companies that they're
struggling in one section of hiring or another,

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we will actually go in and be
a recruiter of records to our recruiters

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work under the company's brand, They
recruit with that quiet company's email addresses.

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In most of the time we do
that in conjunction with an existing talent acquisition

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recruiting team. We just become more
capacity to help leaders and companies get the

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talent that they need. So we're
very much in the recruiting industry, but

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our po and what I just described
is really our flavor. Christ you're reminding

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me. When we did Cross Paths, I was in my recruitment part of

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my career and that's how I started
Human Capital some twenty years ago. And

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you know what I loved about being
a recruiter was one you got to be

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intimately part of people's lives, their
hopes, their dreams, what they wanted

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to do with their lives and their
work, and you got to be an

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ambassador on behalf of the company.
I loved it. It was great gaps

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of fun for me. Yeah,
And what I would tell you, Elise,

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is that one of the reasons I
made the decision to invest in Kinetics

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and enjoin Shannon rousseau is as an
HR leader. You know, everything you

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just described was true for me.
I like the best time of my week,

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you know, the best time of
my day, although I didn't certainly

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didn't do it every day, but
the best part of my week multiple times

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a month is when you hire the
right person, when you're involved in a

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great hire and you know it can
be transformational for a department, for a

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leader for the company. There's no
better feeling, right, It's the closest

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thing to sales. Recruiting is that
you'll find kind of in the human capital

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space unless you're an entrepreneur like yourself
and you actually like seal services. If

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you're working inside a company and you're
in the human capital space, recruiting,

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great recruiting is sales. And I
just love that connection and finding that right

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that and closing that relationship and getting
people to sign on. Nothing better,

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like you've said, completely with you. So, given that you've been at

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this for quite some time, Chris, and you really do work at what

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you your thought leadership and you know
all the writing that you do in such

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and so I wanted you to I
ask you to think about a couple of

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big lessons you've learned over your career
as a business leader and now an owner

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that it made a sizeable difference to
your success. What would you tell us,

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Well, I mean it's a great
question. You know. What I

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would say is you know what's been
effective for me, and certainly this comes

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through and the law of the writing
I do is I think you know,

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being an authentic person and letting people
inside the veil and understand like what makes

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me tick as a leader, as
a manager, talking openly and honestly,

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always being transparent or certainly trying to
be as transparent as I can. You

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know, there's no such thing as
one hundred percent transparency because you can't give

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all the people all the information all
the time. But I think just being

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authentic, like in being honest with
people and telling people how I felt good,

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dad and ugly, but also trying
to build people up as you share

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that information and tell them how they
connect to the mission in question, how

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they can help you make a difference, how or why it's important, what

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you can do to help them achieve
a different level in their career. I

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think just speaking to all those things
at least with a lot of authenticity.

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You know, you don't have to
do it. You know, if I

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had a recommendation for anybody, I
would say, find that level of authenticity

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and practice it, and you don't
have to do it like a least you

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don't have to do it like Chris, find it within who you are and

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how you identify with the world around
you, but be authentic to that.

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And I think when you're authentic with
people. People naturally the right people naturally

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gravitate towards you. So if you
give people a glimpse to who you are

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as a leader and what's important to
you, what you're all about, what

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you can do for them. What
I love about this is that the people

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that are most s gettable for that
message are going to naturally be attracted to

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working with you, and subsequently,
Elise, the people that maybe aren't a

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great fit for you, if you're
transparent, you're authentic, they're going to

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sense that and they're going to opt
out before you even have to make a

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decision about whether to hire them.
And so I think that authenticity and transmitting

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that is really key. It's certainly
been a key for me, and I

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think it's key for any leader as
well. And again, you don't have

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to do it like Elise or Chris, do it like you, but transmit

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those signals because it's really going to
be the core to a lot of the

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success you have. If you hide
from that, Elise, I think that's

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where you get in trouble and you'll
you'll miss more often than you should in

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the hiring process, and then you'll
have to make a lot of tough decisions

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when people join your team. I
completely agree with you, Chris, and

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align with you on that. And
for you listeners who are saying, yeah,

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but you know, if people really
knew me when I get to keep

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my job, and I just really
want to I really want to just address

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that because I coach a lot of
people, men and women, and you

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are you tell me you're afraid to
be really who you are in your roles

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and you within your organization. So
I hope you'll take Chris's advice to heart.

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Hey, Atlas, can I say
one more thing? Yeah? Please?

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One more thing about that, Elise, and I'll be brief so we

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can get onto the other things you
want to talk about. Is there's a

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sliding scale of authenticity based on the
organization you work for. So when you're

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coaching clients, Elise, somebody working
at a very conservative company, authenticity means

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something different, Yes, and it
does at a startup or in the software

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industry, et cetera, et cetera. We give like one hundred different examples.

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But even if you're working for the
most conservative company ever and you think

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you have risks, just by being
a little more authentic, you don't have

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to be at Google. You don't
have to be in the Bay Area to

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be authentic. You can be aut
and it based not only on who you

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are, but in the circumstances you're
in. You can be more authentic than

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the other managers and leaders at that
very conservative company without taking a lot of

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risks. That was Yeah, and
that was a fantastic clarification. I think

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that will help our listeners tremendously.
Chris, thank you. That was That

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was awesome. I give you way
extra points for that. Thank you so

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much. If you can call me
anytime you want now, see yeah,

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I love it. Yeah yeah.
All right. Well, so you kind

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sir, and the work that you
do and the business that you run in

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the various roles that you had have
had a pretty interesting seat at the table,

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I think, and so from that
vantage point, I would love for

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you to share what do you think
some of the most pressing issues business leaders

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are facing today? What have you
seen heard or no? Well, I

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mean it's peak economic cycle, so
you know, we're in this incredible economic

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cycle. Knock on wood, you
know, I hope there's not a recession

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around the corner. We're taping this
in December of twenty nineteen, and certainly

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there will be one at some point. So just the cycle we're in trying

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to find the right talent for any
team has to be one of the biggest

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issues that the leaders have. I
think the other thing, at least,

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and I'm be interested to get your
opinion on this, is it's one thing

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to be effective at finding the talent
you need. It's the other thing to

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really attract and be able to attract
the right type of talent that's really transformational

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to what you can do with your
business. So when I think about like

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the most pressing issues that a leader
would face today, it's not only hey,

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I've got to get these jobs filled
on my team and in my company,

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and I've got to find enough talent, but then I've also got to

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make sure, especially in the right
spots, that I've got transformational talent that

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matches where I'm going maybe rather than
where I you know, at this point

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on a Tuesday in December. So
I think it's one thing. It's challenging

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enough just to find enough talent to
scale an organization to make sure you have

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what you need, but then it's
like, you know, the transformational talent

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that's really going to help you go
two x, three x, ten x,

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whatever it is, whatever your goal
is, finding the transformational talent where

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you don't have to tell someone what
to do. They're capable not only of

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doing the job, but they're also
capable of charting the path forward. That's

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the type of talent that all of
us need. And you know, it's

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a it's a barrier to figure out
what does that look like? And once

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you define what that transformational talent looks
like, how do you go get it?

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And by the way, at least
and I'll throw it back to you.

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That's directly linked to you being authentic
and a lot of your messaging both

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inside your company and outside your company, because you seek to talk to candidates

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because people people can smell what they
consider to be a phony a mile away,

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and people have never had more auctions
than they have today about where they

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work and how they work. You
know, like, not only are you

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competing against other companies, but you're
also competing against jobs that offer people the

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ability to do it from their homes
and maybe you don't have that. So

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that transformational talent, like I just
think it's directly linked. Like if you're

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going to get your share of that
people have to know who you are.

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You've got to sell kind of that
vision. They really have to believe in

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you or they'll never join you.
Yeah. Absolutely, Chris. What I

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would add to that, and that
you gave it back to me in my

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court, is that in order to
attract transformational talent, that means that you're

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not going to attract them at the
level you are today, as you say,

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they have to be able to take
you into the future that you desire,

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which is that vision you were talking
about. And now we're smack right

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into my camp, and that's where
we get into to that inspirational leadership where

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you have painted a picture for where
this bus is going in a way that

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is so compelling that this person's like, I'm dropping everything, I'm coming over

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right now. I want to play
in your sandbox. Let's do this thing.

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And I think that is how you
posit how you attract transformational talent is

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you've got to paint that picture in
such a way that they know they're part

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of that, and they want to
be part of that. Even if they

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get an offer for less money,
they want to play in this in this

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sandbox. Yeah, and at least
one other thing I would give you like

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like a here's a free tip for
anybody that's looking for transformational talent. One

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really hot profile. So we do
a lot of assessment work and a lot

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of the searches we do, we
do and a really hot profile right now

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based on hey, can people help
you get to where you want to go?

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Is someone who has now rules orientation, meaning they love the chaos.

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They don't need you to have an
operations manual set up for when they when

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your company. In fact, they'll
probably kind of flinch at that if you

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showed it to them. So low
rules orientation, which means they can deal

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with the chaos, they can help
you come up with the plan and the

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strategy, but high detail orientation,
which means they can actually execute on all

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the great stuff they dream up.
That's in the simplest terms, when you're

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looking at the candidate and you're wondering, heys this transformational talent in front of

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me. There's a lot of other
factors involved, but in the simplest terms,

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looking for that profile is the best
advice I have for people today.

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That is gold. Chris Dunn,
thank you so much. I think what

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we'll do on that note, let's
grab our first break there and then we'll

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come back. I want to ask
you more about the business roundtable position,

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but let's grab our first break first. I'm your host, Alice Cortez.

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We've been on the air with Chris
Dunn, who was a partner and chief

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human resource officer at Kinnectics, a
national RPO recruiting firm headquartered in Atlanta.

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He's also the founder of two industry
leading blogs, Fist Full of Talent in

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the HR Capitalist, and has written
over one hundred feature columns at Workforce Management

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Magazine and is also the author of
nine Phases of HR. He joines any

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from Birmingham, Alabama, where he's
on site with a client. We've been

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talking about his perspective on business and
thought, leadership and hiring. After the

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break, we're going to talk about
one of his passions, building great managers.

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Stay with us, we'll be right
back. Alise Cortez is a speaker

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and engagement and development catalyst. She
designs and delivers professional development, leadership and

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engagement workshops and can bring her expertise
to your organization. She will help ignite

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meaningful development within your workforce that will
increase employee engagement performance and retention. To

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learn more or to invite Elise to
speak to your organization, please visit her

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at www dot Elise Cortez dot com. She would welcome the opportunity to help

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get your employees working on purpose.
This is working on Purpose with Elise Cortez.

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To reach our program today, send
an email to Elise ali Se at

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Elise Cortez dot com. Now back
to working on purpose. Thanks for staying

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with us, and welcome back to
working on purpose if you're just joining us.

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My guest is Chris Dunn, who
is a partner and chief Human Resource

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Officer at Kinnectics, a national RPO
recruiting firm headquartered in Atlanta. Is also

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the founder of two industry leading blogs, Fistful of Talent and The hr Capitalist,

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and has written over one hundred feature
columns at Workforce Management Magazine. He

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built a training program for managers of
people from the ground up called Boss Leadership

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Skills for the Modern Manager. I'm
your host, Elise Cortez, So I

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wanted to ask you before we go
on to your passion for building great managers.

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Chris, I wanted to sneak in
a question about the CEO Business Roundtable

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position that was offered in August that
is getting a lot of talk and opinion

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around it, and it's the one
where they reorient the purpose of the corporation

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from just serving shareholders to serving the
full gument of stakeholders including employees, customers,

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suppliers, a community, and shareholders. What's your take on that,

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what's your perspective on that? Well, I mean, you know, I

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think we've seem like repeated like car
crashes related to serving shareholders only, right

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the latest one you know, with
with we work just as people try and

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build you know, these organizations and
they think about shareholder value only it seems

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like it it always ends up in
a bad place, or you know,

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very often it does. So I
can't argue with the logic that says there

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has to be a more holistic approach. And certainly, you know, as

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a recruiting company, a former HR
pro somebody that thinks about you know,

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training managers a lot, and I
know we're going to talk about that.

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I think, you know, just
viewing an engaging employees in a really like

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positive way is a great place to
start. You know, I do believe

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it sounds cliche, but I do
believe that engaged employees who are treated well

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and you can kind of see their
goals coming to fruition for their career at

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your company. Are going to treat
your customers better, your clients better,

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and I think all of that leads
to shareholder results. So I do believe,

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and I'm fuss to get your take
a leaf. I think I think

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there's a balanced approach that makes sense
to that issue. And I think we've

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seen if you only focus on shareholder
value, it's just car crash after car

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crash. I think that's a great
way to describe it, a car crash.

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And my perspective on it, just
briefly is that I do think it's

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it's way more healthy if you focus
on the serving overall whole versus just a

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shareholder, You've got a better shot
at making that. And I do think

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that we as business people can do
better than just serving the shareholders. We

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can serve the community better, the
employees, the customers better. That's a

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great thing about about business that there's
so much power to it. So I'm

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very encouraged that that has been offered. And of course I do follow conscious

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capitalism. I'm a member here of
the organization and the movement here in Dallas.

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Next week on the radio show,
I have doctor raj to Sodia talking

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about Firms of Endearment, the book
that he co authored, which is essentially

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some of the beginning of conscious capitalism
and also embraces just that particular statement.

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So I'm just trying to talk to
as many business people as I can about

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it to surface concerns or a better
way forward. So thanks for weighing in

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with me. Sure, well,
let's move on to one of your other

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great passions. You have a few
of them, but one of them you

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said to me in our initial conversation, is that you really like to train

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great managers. And so first I
want to know where the passion came from

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and why managers. So the passion
really comes from my background a lease as

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an HR leader, I think,
you know, serving in fortune five hundred

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companies all the way down to kind
of you know, ventor or equity back

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startups. You know, the you're
only as good as your as your weakest

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manager, and so many issues that
you might have from an employee relations perspective

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or cultural issues can be resolved by
just having better conversations between managers employees.

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So kind of the impetus you know, and kind of why I've always been

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focused on that is just my service
as an HR leader. So I've always

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been involved in bootstrapping training from the
ground up and making sure that managers of

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people get exposed to, Hey,
what do I need to do to really

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like deliver a quality conversation in this
area or that area with my team members

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who report Timmy That it's kind of
where it comes from. I've just always

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seen that, you know, great
cultures can be derailed by bad managers,

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and bad cultures can be uplifted by
managers who just kind of naturally know what

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they're doing. So I wondered,
is there a better way to training train

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those managers? And that's kind of
why I got involved in the Boss Leadership

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series Awesome, and I think it
probably would be extremely useful for our listeners,

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Chris, since we do use the
word leadership a lot on this program,

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you're distinguishing managers from leaders. Yes, yeah, I really am.

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So, you know, I put
this series together. It's called Boss Leadership

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Skills for the Modern Manager, And
you'll laugh at the Elise. It's kind

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of hard to you know, we
dance this continuum. I do view managers

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of people as having different needs than
true leaders at the executive level. And

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basically what I mean by that,
Alas says for managers of people, I

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just really want you to do great
things when you talk to your people,

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and hey, do I want you
to have a vision for where you want

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to take your team? Hey,
that would be awesome, and that would

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be great, But how about we
just get through like this five minute coaching

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conversation. You've got to have one
of your people about something uncomfortable. You

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really don't know how to get into
it. So I'm kind of looking for

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a more practical approach to helping managers
of people have great conversations. That's kind

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of my distinction between a manager of
people and what their needs are versus what

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you do with visionary leadership and all
of the things that are connected to that.

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Yeah, I don't remember exactly the
way this was distinguished, but I

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remember hearing somebody speak one time to
saying that, you know, when we're

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talking about managers, we're usually saying
is they're administering the day to day work

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and leaders maybe are inspiring the vision
and managers are handling, you know,

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the day to day workload and trying
to remove obstacles that people can get things

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done, and maybe leaders are considering
the strategy or so those really And I

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think you use the phrase boots on
the ground when we spoke last time,

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which I thought was just perfect and
apropos. So I guess the first thing

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I want to know here is what
kind of challenges are mistakes do you see,

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especially new managers dealing with when they
first start out. Well, I

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think the biggest thing a lease and
love to get your take on this.

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I think the biggest thing is they
don't know how to get into conversations.

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So, you know, you go, you know, you're a new manager,

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maybe you got promoted from within,
maybe you join the company, but

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maybe it's the first time you've been
a manager. And when stuff happens where

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it's going to feel like confrontation to
you to have a conversation. Most normal

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people don't like confrontation and they're not
sure how to get into the conversation.

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What invariably happens LEAs and this is
the mistake. The mistake is people wait

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to have conversations and to coach the
people who report to them because they don't

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know how to give them the conversations. So by waiting, everything gets worse

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at least. So the biggest mistake
is you wait to have conversations, you

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wait to coach, you wait to
give them feedback. You just go right

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down the list. If you wait, you lose. So that's why I

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think it's a key that managers have
better tools to understand that, hey,

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they can have conversations and you know
what, if it's handled the right way

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and your personality, but you hit
certain benchmarks, nobody dies and really no

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one's upset. It feels very natural, So to go back to just answer

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your question clearly and concisely, the
biggest mistake people make is they wait to

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have conversations. You know, I
would agree. I spent a couple of

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years Chris doing a fair amount of
new leader, new manager training, excuse

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and new supervisor management training for serious
organizations including Texas Instruments here in Dallas as

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well as in Mexico and Spanish.
And what I appreciated about that program was

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it also got into delegation, time
management skills, how to give effective feedback.

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I think those are really important and
also helping that person step away from

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being an individual contributor to now someone
who is trying to leave is the work

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of other people who used to be
their peers. I think that's that's kind

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of a hard change for a lot
of people. Yeah, And I think

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the other thing, at least that
the biggest you know, another mistake,

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manager's wait. First of all,
they wait. I think secondly, there's

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this instinct that feedback and like the
most important conversations have to be incredibly formal

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when they come from a manager.
I'm the authority and I've got back that

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may not feel great. So now
I have to set up a meeting.

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I've got to send you an invite. It's going to be in the conference

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room or in my office. Maybe
I'm coy and I don't say what the

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meeting's really about. But it really
doesn't have to be that formal. In

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fact, the best conversations you get
the most behavioral change, even if you

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plan them for days, are going
to come off as incredibly informal. And

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the other key is managers will talk
more than they listen. And the science

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behind all this shows us that behavioral
change. You've got the best shot at

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getting behavioral change if you talk less
than the person you're trying to coach and

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actually engage to get that behavioral changed. Like, whatever the situation is,

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there's a variety of tools. You
desperately need that person to engage talk,

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talk about their challenges, talk about
what their ideas are, and really just

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soak up some of that air time. If you do all the talking as

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a manager, you'll lose, and
you'll lose a lot, and you'll wonder

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what happened. So we're try and
deal with all those things in the Boss

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series that we've developed well into that, and I wanted to hear more about

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that and help our listeners understand it
as well. So you created and run

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the Boss Leadership series, So tell
us about it. What are the kind

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of the nuts and bolts of it, what's it designed to do? How

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does it work? Yeah, So
it's so I wanted to do it at

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least because I'm kind of a human
capital nerd and you are and I love

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you for that. Now. So
I had all my bucket list of things

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that hey, I'm tired of,
like training, this way too formal for

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managers of people. So I've got
a blog. You mentioned it, like

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you know in the in the intro. I've get a blog. A couple

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of blogs. Hr Capitalists is one
fist full of talent. Really, I

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wanted to do training for managers that
was in an informal voice that would make

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them smile. So we've created a
series of seven modules that includes things like

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goal setting, performance management, there's
like coaching like employees. There, there's

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like a change management portion of it. Seven modules. They can be configured

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from anywhere from a half day to
two days. We mix them up for

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different clients and we run managers through
those series, and it's really designed just

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to help them again understand and the
most important conversations, understand what the science

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says about their relationship with their employees, and to give them simple tools that

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they can deliver within the framework of
their own personality to get the best results

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with the people who rely on them
for guidance. And what we find across

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all seven modules at least is that
if at least, if you're reporting to

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me and I want to be an
effective manager, I've got to make it

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informal. I've got to make sure
that you participate. So in every tool

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that we give across these the modules, I've got to get you talking,

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because if you talk, it doesn't
mean I lose control of the conversation.

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It just means that you're coming up
with some of the ideas, and of

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course I've got to be nimble enough. If you give me stuff that's not

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great, I'm going to be nimble
enough to deflect the stuff that's not great,

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use the stuff that's good, use
your ideas, and one of our

408
00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:22.480
situation we're dealing with, and then
close for what's going to happen in the

409
00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:26.440
future. So across all those modules, that's really what we're trying to do

410
00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:33.440
is we're trying to identify issues that
need to be corrected, things that we

411
00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:37.119
need the teammate to do, and
we're trying to teach those managers of people

412
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:44.599
to do it in a real informal
way that really engages the employee and really,

413
00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:48.480
by the way, makes the employee
feel like that manager has what's in

414
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:52.440
it for them then being the employee
at the top of their minds. So

415
00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:59.079
it's very much a developmental series in
that capacity as well. Sounds awesome to

416
00:30:59.079 --> 00:31:00.440
me, and of course I love
this kind of work. That's a lot

417
00:31:00.440 --> 00:31:03.839
of what I do, being able
to take people from where they are today

418
00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:08.160
to their future. And so you
told me on the on the phone You've

419
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:12.720
had twenty five hundred managers come through
this program. That's astounding. So who

420
00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:17.359
stands out as someone to celebrate,
help help us understand why does this stuff

421
00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:21.640
work? Well, I think you
know what's humbling for me, and I'll

422
00:31:21.640 --> 00:31:26.400
give you an example. So two
weeks ago, I was at Exit eighteen

423
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:33.480
in Valdosta, Georgia, Okay and
Valdosta, Georgia's great town, Valdosta State

424
00:31:33.559 --> 00:31:38.119
University. I'll hire people from there. It's about three hours south of Atlanta.

425
00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:41.480
It's the last exit before you get
them Florida on Interstate seventy five.

426
00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:45.359
But it's count of like fifty thousand
people. And we were there to do

427
00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:49.079
training for a healthcare company. And
what I love about this is we had

428
00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:52.119
twenty five managers in there. We
spent a couple of days with them.

429
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:56.359
And what I love who stands out? What I would tell you is in

430
00:31:56.599 --> 00:32:00.519
every training series we do, and
I have trainers that work for me and

431
00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:05.160
with me, so I don't do
every training session myself. But it's amazing,

432
00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:07.599
Elise, And this is the thing
that really charges my batteries. In

433
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:14.920
any company, if someone has risen
to the level where they're now managing people

434
00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:22.160
there are incredible stars in every company
that are really some of them are naturals

435
00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:27.279
and some of them are not naturals, but they're super hungry for the tools.

436
00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:30.519
So what'll we tell you? Like, we did the session in Valdosta

437
00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:36.480
with twenty five managers of people,
and we had, like, no joke,

438
00:32:36.559 --> 00:32:40.400
Elise, we had like ten or
eleven stars in their own right in

439
00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:44.319
that class. Now, a couple
of them were naturals. A couple of

440
00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:50.440
them just did it and they came
out of the womb talking like we want

441
00:32:50.599 --> 00:32:54.519
people to talk to employees as managers
of people. They just like naturally did

442
00:32:54.519 --> 00:33:00.000
it. But the other nine or
ten really took the tools really just like

443
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:05.680
blossomed over the two day period.
You can just tell that they're going to

444
00:33:05.799 --> 00:33:08.200
get it. So who stands out? It's funny. At least over half

445
00:33:08.240 --> 00:33:13.039
the people in every class we do
stand out because they all come from different

446
00:33:13.039 --> 00:33:15.839
walks of life. There's a lot
of diversity in every class we do across

447
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:22.000
multiple factors. But people get it
and they're hungry for the tools. I

448
00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:27.240
love it. I love witnessing that
transformation. So I'm right there within your

449
00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:30.119
back pocket. Let's grab our last
break here, Chris. I'm your host,

450
00:33:30.119 --> 00:33:32.640
Elise Cortez. We'll be on the
air with Chris Stunn, who is

451
00:33:32.680 --> 00:33:37.400
a partner and chief human resources officer
at Kinnectics, a national RPO recruiting firm

452
00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:42.640
headquartered in Atlanta. He's also the
founder of two industry leading blogs, Fistful

453
00:33:42.680 --> 00:33:45.279
of Talent and The HR Capitalist,
and has written over one hundred feature columns

454
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:51.000
at Workforce Management Magazine and is the
author of nine paces of HR. He

455
00:33:51.079 --> 00:33:53.119
joins us today from Birmingham, Alabama, where he's on site for a client.

456
00:33:53.519 --> 00:33:57.400
After the break, we're going to
talk about his perspective on finding meaningful

457
00:33:57.440 --> 00:34:07.599
work. Stay with us, we'll
be right back. Elise Cortez is a

458
00:34:07.639 --> 00:34:14.519
speaker and engagement and development catalyst.
She designs and delivers professional development, leadership

459
00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:19.280
and engagement workshops and can bring her
expertise to your organization. She will help

460
00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:24.280
ignite meaningful development within your workforce that
will increase employee engagement, performance and retention.

461
00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:29.159
To learn more or to invite Elise
to speak to your organization, please

462
00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:34.800
visit her at www dot Elise Cortez
dot com. She would welcome the opportunity

463
00:34:34.840 --> 00:34:45.800
to help get your employees working on
purpose. This is working on Purpose with

464
00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:51.480
Elise Cortez. To reach our program
today, send an email to Elise ali

465
00:34:51.679 --> 00:35:00.000
Se at Elise Cortez dot com.
Now back to working on Purpose. Thanks

466
00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:01.960
for saying with this will welcome back
to working own purpose if you're just tuning

467
00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:05.559
in. My guest is Chris Dunn, who is a partner and chief human

468
00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:09.599
resource officer at Kinectics, a national
RPO recruiting firm headquartered in Atlanta. Is

469
00:35:09.639 --> 00:35:13.679
also the founder of two industry leading
blogs, fist Full of Talent and The

470
00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:17.119
hr Capitalist, and has written over
one hundred feature columns at Workforce Management Magazine.

471
00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:21.519
He built a training program for managers
of people from the ground up called

472
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:24.360
Boss Leadership Skills for the Modern Manager. I'm your host, Elice Cortez,

473
00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:29.519
So Chris, for this last segment
here, I really wanted to extract what

474
00:35:29.599 --> 00:35:32.280
I can of that heartened mind and
experience of yours about the world of work

475
00:35:32.360 --> 00:35:37.320
for those individuals or gallivanting across the
globe. So Churst, let me situate

476
00:35:37.480 --> 00:35:40.840
listeners. If you don't know this
stat it's kind of kind of amazing that,

477
00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:45.320
according to Gallup, eighty five percent
of the global workforce doesn't want to

478
00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:50.119
go to work on Monday morning or
whatever your shift starts and when in the

479
00:35:50.199 --> 00:35:52.639
US that figure is actually sixty percent. So we're better, but we still

480
00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:55.920
have a long way to go.
So, Chris, what do you think

481
00:35:57.000 --> 00:36:00.719
is missing in today's workforce for those
numbers of So I've got a question for

482
00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:04.920
you. First, e Lease,
why do you think the numbers lower in

483
00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:07.119
the US, that we're more engaged
than the rest of the world. What's

484
00:36:07.159 --> 00:36:09.679
going on in the rest of the
world, any any insight in that?

485
00:36:12.079 --> 00:36:15.199
I do have insight. I think
the reason that we were a little better

486
00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:17.760
often in States than maybe other parts
of the world is that we do I

487
00:36:17.800 --> 00:36:22.079
think we do give more focus to
it than maybe other parts of the world

488
00:36:22.119 --> 00:36:28.039
so far. I think I think
a lot of the American based organizations do

489
00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:30.639
recognize that they need to make work
a compelling place for people or else they're

490
00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:35.719
they're just not going to win in
business. And I think maybe there are

491
00:36:35.719 --> 00:36:39.320
other pockets in the world where they
haven't quite subscribed to that belief system.

492
00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:43.400
Yeah, that's a good point.
You know, what I see in those

493
00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:47.320
numbers, a Lease is like when
I look at the gallup stuff and I

494
00:36:47.519 --> 00:36:52.159
look at you know, however you
describe it fully engage, somewhat engaged.

495
00:36:52.280 --> 00:36:57.239
There's a lot of different like tags
on that. Really I'm like I'm looking

496
00:36:57.280 --> 00:37:02.320
for, Okay, is somebody willing
to get of discretionary effort? Which means

497
00:37:02.599 --> 00:37:07.159
you could you could say, well, I'm not you know, I'm not

498
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:10.960
dreading going to work. But I
think the question, Elise would be,

499
00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:17.039
is that person going to give either
me or the company discretionary effort that they

500
00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:22.800
didn't have to give a discretionary effort? You know most people know what I'm

501
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:24.960
talking about. It just means,
hey, is somebody going to give me

502
00:37:25.159 --> 00:37:29.360
kind of their heart, soul in
mind, tell me, like figure stuff

503
00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:31.920
out today? Are they just going
to do whatever's pushing in front of them?

504
00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:36.559
I think it comes down to like
people like, you know, some

505
00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:40.400
things that are involved, Like are
they intellectually curious? I do think like

506
00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:45.119
having a great manager is a part
of that that wants to grow you.

507
00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:49.400
I think the last correct me if
I'm wrong. But like some of the

508
00:37:49.480 --> 00:37:53.159
questions and what I'll call the Gallop
twelve, which is kind of those twelve

509
00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:59.119
like core questions that are on a
lot of engagement surveys that came from Gallop.

510
00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:04.239
A lot of people have I borrowed
and stolen them, which I'm sure

511
00:38:04.239 --> 00:38:07.960
Gallup's fine with. By the way, like one of them. So if

512
00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:10.400
you recognize this one, at least
one of them is at work, I

513
00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:15.400
have a chance to do what I
do best every day. Does that one

514
00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:20.199
ring true? Yeah? Yeah,
I mean I would mean ring true in

515
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:24.280
terms of engagement or from my perspective, well, I mean does that's certainly

516
00:38:24.360 --> 00:38:29.440
part of the Gallop twelve. Another
one that comes to mind is at work,

517
00:38:29.480 --> 00:38:34.400
there's someone concerned about my development,
right, And I think both those

518
00:38:34.480 --> 00:38:36.880
questions kind of speak to the fact
that, you know, hey, I

519
00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:38.800
know there's going to be bad stuff
that I got to do that I don't

520
00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:45.480
really enjoy. But is there's somebody
at my company that kind of knows what

521
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:49.880
charges my batteries and what I really
like to do, and what my super

522
00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:53.239
skill is, what my ninja's skill
is, and do they try and help

523
00:38:53.320 --> 00:38:57.800
me get in a position where I
can use that. So even if I've

524
00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:01.840
got some battery draining going on at
work, I get a chance to charge

525
00:39:01.880 --> 00:39:06.800
my batteries every once in a while. I think that probably comes down to

526
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:10.599
that person's manager just trying to understand
what motivates somebody. And you know,

527
00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:15.079
none of us have jobs that you
know are one hundred percent filled with stuff

528
00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:20.679
that's just incredible. But we all
want jobs where we get a chance to

529
00:39:20.719 --> 00:39:23.840
do what we do best. And
I think it's like as a manager figured

530
00:39:23.880 --> 00:39:28.719
out what that is for the individual
in question, and when they do and

531
00:39:28.760 --> 00:39:30.679
when they try and give that person
a chance to do at least, I

532
00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:35.719
kind of think you get the discreptionary
effort, which I think even transcends that

533
00:39:35.960 --> 00:39:42.280
sixty percent number who maybe aren't dreading
or I guess are dreading going into work,

534
00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:45.880
So it's forty percent that aren't.
I think there's a there's a subsett

535
00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:49.880
up forty percent, which is really
where you want to get their giddy discretionary

536
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:53.239
effort. How do you feel,
Well, yes, I will tell you

537
00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:58.760
that I have done employee engagement assessment
work over the years, and it's really

538
00:39:58.800 --> 00:40:02.440
interesting when you look at people that
are you know, strongly engaged versus engaged.

539
00:40:02.480 --> 00:40:07.119
That's a big difference right there,
and then those that are disengaged versus

540
00:40:07.119 --> 00:40:12.599
strongly disengaged, and you start to
look at how the strongly engaged pull the

541
00:40:12.719 --> 00:40:16.280
organization forward, and you know,
they disengaged and the strongly disengaged pull it

542
00:40:16.360 --> 00:40:21.559
back and so having finding a way
too. And I love your point about

543
00:40:21.840 --> 00:40:24.239
leaders and managers recognizing what does this
person love, what lights them up?

544
00:40:24.239 --> 00:40:28.599
And how can I give him her
more of that or help them grow into

545
00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:31.920
more of that. I think that
that moves that needle substantially more in to

546
00:40:32.039 --> 00:40:35.639
that sixty percent figure, and of
course we want it to be higher than

547
00:40:35.679 --> 00:40:39.280
that. But you know, of
course there's also the talk these days about

548
00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:43.960
helping to enable more employees to do
that for themselves. It's not all just

549
00:40:44.039 --> 00:40:45.480
on the manager of the leaders to
do that and wave the magic wand it's

550
00:40:46.159 --> 00:40:51.599
our want. It's up to the
individual employee to to take accountability and ownership

551
00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:55.559
over their own on what we call
today fulfillment, not just engagement. But

552
00:40:57.119 --> 00:40:59.519
there's so much that can be done, which of course is why I get

553
00:40:59.599 --> 00:41:02.400
up morning. Yeah, there's so
much to do out there in the world.

554
00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:06.880
You know, one great example I
would give you, like the impact

555
00:41:06.920 --> 00:41:12.000
of a great manager leader, Elie
says, let's say you're having a coaching

556
00:41:12.039 --> 00:41:16.360
conversation. There's parts of the job
that just kind of suck, and you

557
00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:21.079
do them because you have to etcetera, etcetera. Elis, I know your

558
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:25.519
job is incredible and rewarding on all
levels. But a manager has a conversation

559
00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:34.760
with one of their direct reports and
they say, help to work every day,

560
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:38.280
how can we make this more efficient? Bring is at the end of

561
00:41:38.320 --> 00:41:43.320
the day, what we're trying to
do is we're trying to jam down the

562
00:41:43.360 --> 00:41:45.440
parts of your job that suck.
By the way, that's a disengaging part

563
00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:51.840
for your employee. Let's gm down
the percentage of your job that sucks,

564
00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:55.159
Like, help us get it more
efficient so we can give you more time

565
00:41:55.480 --> 00:41:59.880
to do the things you're great at. The charge your batteries. That's really

566
00:41:59.880 --> 00:42:01.760
the stuff you want to do,
but we can't get there until you help

567
00:42:01.800 --> 00:42:07.159
me here. So it's like it's
the flavors of just the acknowledgement of the

568
00:42:07.159 --> 00:42:10.960
manager that says, hey, I
understand this is hard, but here's why

569
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:15.159
we're doing it because I know you're
great at this, but we can't get

570
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:20.000
to it until we become more efficient
and do things differently here. So there's

571
00:42:20.039 --> 00:42:22.599
this there's this ebb and flow,
push and pull however you want to say

572
00:42:22.599 --> 00:42:27.960
it, that goes on in the
workplace. And I think a good manager

573
00:42:28.039 --> 00:42:30.719
is always pointing people to the fact
of hey, I know what you're good

574
00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:35.639
at, but we got to deal
with all of this sucky stuff, and

575
00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:40.320
we've got to deal with it better, quicker, maybe eliminate it so you

576
00:42:40.360 --> 00:42:44.159
can get to the parts of the
job that you really want to get to.

577
00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:46.840
And most people don't. Most people
don't take time to do that.

578
00:42:47.119 --> 00:42:52.199
The great managers do. That's that's
incredible useful, Chris, very very That

579
00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:57.159
gives a place for managers, leaders
and employees to stand on. So that's

580
00:42:57.239 --> 00:43:00.719
that's fantastic. Now, speaking of
that, you and your team have a

581
00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:06.199
tremendous vanish point into the heart and
soul of people who are looking to change

582
00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:10.440
jobs. So what do you hear
people driving to want to leave their current

583
00:43:10.519 --> 00:43:14.199
forward to seek something new. What's
going on? What do they tell you?

584
00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:17.760
Well, I mean money. Money
is always an issue, So people

585
00:43:17.800 --> 00:43:24.199
will find themselves in bad spots,
you know, just from an economic perspective

586
00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:29.760
with you know, providing for the
family, so money is always there.

587
00:43:29.800 --> 00:43:34.599
But once money becomes even it's off
the table. Elease. It almost always

588
00:43:34.639 --> 00:43:40.480
comes down to perceived instability with a
manager, department, or company and it

589
00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:45.679
can occur on any of the three
levels. So not that our recruiters would

590
00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:50.840
ever do this eleaset because this would
be a form of manipulation. But if

591
00:43:50.840 --> 00:43:53.519
we have a great candidate and they're
wondering if they want to make the jump

592
00:43:53.559 --> 00:43:57.679
to one of our great clients,
one of the things we have to understand

593
00:43:57.760 --> 00:44:01.440
is what their motivations are and where
they have feared out and uncertainty. And

594
00:44:01.519 --> 00:44:06.440
we've got to ask tough questions about
that because when when people move, once

595
00:44:06.480 --> 00:44:09.960
the money thing is even or what
you know, once the money thing is

596
00:44:10.280 --> 00:44:15.639
not the most important thing, it
almost always comes down to perceived instability.

597
00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:21.280
Again at the company level, of
the department level or the manager level.

598
00:44:22.039 --> 00:44:24.960
That makes complete sense. We're getting
darn close to being out of time,

599
00:44:25.039 --> 00:44:28.280
Chris, but I just want to
grab you for this. One of the

600
00:44:28.360 --> 00:44:31.760
last questions here is I'd love for
you to share with this any notable initiatives

601
00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:36.360
that you've seen companies undertake to make
the workplace more compelling for their employees,

602
00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:38.840
whether that's in their hiring practices,
their development. What are you seeing out

603
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:45.239
there? Well, I think you
know not to be incredibly selfish, you

604
00:44:45.280 --> 00:44:49.960
know, with like what we do. I think there's a couple of things

605
00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:53.519
going on. I think some interesting
things, and I could speak for an

606
00:44:53.519 --> 00:45:00.199
hour about this, but I think
companies that are really trying to recruit that

607
00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:05.880
are and trying to get transformational talent
are probably taking the time to speak directly

608
00:45:06.039 --> 00:45:09.239
to transformational talent and what they do. From an employment branding perspective, so

609
00:45:09.280 --> 00:45:14.679
if you look at somebody's career site, rather than simply serving up jobs,

610
00:45:15.239 --> 00:45:20.920
the companies that are really trying to
get directly involved with positions and areas that

611
00:45:21.079 --> 00:45:25.000
really drive their business are really trying
to tell a lot of stories about people

612
00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:30.800
actually doing the work inside the company, and they're becoming incredibly granular about how

613
00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:37.519
they market those messages to the outside
world. So from a recruiting perspective,

614
00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:44.119
we see people getting more aggressive and
more granulre with their employment brands. And

615
00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:47.519
then, you know, I think
the other thing is people are really investing

616
00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:53.840
in development dollars for their workforces,
and they do that a couple of different

617
00:45:53.840 --> 00:46:02.199
ways. Right, they make development
dollars available to the rank and file employee.

618
00:46:02.199 --> 00:46:06.519
They're also training their managers. But
when they do it for the rank

619
00:46:06.559 --> 00:46:09.119
and file employee, it's really interesting. I don't know if you saw the

620
00:46:09.199 --> 00:46:15.639
recent Amazon commercials that are out there, they're kind of like really touting their

621
00:46:15.639 --> 00:46:17.719
tuition aid program. And one of
the one of the people in the video,

622
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:21.480
by the way, a form of
employment branding, which I just spoke

623
00:46:21.519 --> 00:46:24.639
about, is basically says something on
the winds up, so you're going to

624
00:46:24.679 --> 00:46:29.960
pay for my college and then you're
going to let me leave. And I

625
00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:34.079
think you know what's interesting to me
in that, to me is that people

626
00:46:34.119 --> 00:46:37.320
that are spending development dollars, whether
it's training, whether it's tuition aid,

627
00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:44.000
whatever you have, are really doing
that with the message that, hey,

628
00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:46.880
we're just trying to make you as
good as you can be. And if

629
00:46:46.880 --> 00:46:50.679
the time comes in your future where
you have to leave, we're going to

630
00:46:50.719 --> 00:46:53.079
shake your hands and we're going to
ask you for a referral, you know,

631
00:46:53.079 --> 00:46:57.280
if you find something better. But
while you're here, we're really going

632
00:46:57.360 --> 00:46:59.360
to invest in you in at least
you know, you know, kind of

633
00:46:59.400 --> 00:47:02.079
the outcome of the you know,
the all the data shows that when you

634
00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:07.440
invest and you send that message that
we're going to invest without fear of your

635
00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:14.840
leaving, a funny thing happens people
actually stay longer right, Yes, how

636
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:19.880
beautiful. That's kind of the deal. Beautiful, Chris, No, I

637
00:47:19.880 --> 00:47:22.199
didn't know about the Amazon. That's
what I quite like that. Well,

638
00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:24.639
we've come to the end of our
time together, but I want to always

639
00:47:24.639 --> 00:47:28.440
give you the last word. You
the guests. So, in say thirty

640
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:30.639
seconds or so, Chris, what
would you like to leave a listeners with

641
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:34.800
today? I you know what I
would say for and I know you have

642
00:47:34.840 --> 00:47:39.480
a huge leadership audience. At least
I think the more authentic you can become

643
00:47:40.440 --> 00:47:45.199
and the better coach you are for
all the people who report to you,

644
00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:50.400
the more you can be a mentor
for two and three levels down the organization.

645
00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:54.679
The more open you are, the
more informal and authentic you can be

646
00:47:54.800 --> 00:48:00.440
where people see the real you.
You just become a magnet. And I

647
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:04.440
think, in addition to everything that
you teach and cansel people on, at

648
00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:07.880
least that's the one thing that I
would focus people to. Let people feel

649
00:48:08.800 --> 00:48:13.440
like whether when they talk to you
your social accounts, whatever it is,

650
00:48:13.440 --> 00:48:16.800
your weekend profile, let them feel
it to get a window inside to you

651
00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:21.960
the leader that other other leaders don't
provide, and you'd be amazed what a

652
00:48:22.039 --> 00:48:25.480
magnet you become fantastic way to finish. Chris, thank you so much.

653
00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:28.760
I am so glad you were willing
to come on here with me and dance

654
00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:31.039
with me here on Year Waves.
Thank you so much for joining your heart

655
00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:37.199
soul in authenticity. So leader,
You're welcome listeners. If you want to

656
00:48:37.239 --> 00:48:40.400
learn more about Chris Dunn, Kinnectics, the Boss Program for Managers, or

657
00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:45.960
Chris's Thought leadership, visit kinetics hr
Let me spell that for you. It's

658
00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:51.880
KI N E t I x hr
dot com. Last week, you've missed

659
00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:53.599
the live show, you can always
catch it be recorded podcast. We were

660
00:48:53.599 --> 00:48:58.079
on the Year with doctor glib Supersky, the author of Never Go with Your

661
00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:01.800
Gut, How Pioneer leaders make the
best decisions and avoid business disasters. We

662
00:49:01.880 --> 00:49:07.280
talked about his mission to educate about
one hundred plus known cognitive biases and to

663
00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:10.880
protect leaders from dangerous judgmentaires resulting from
them by developing the most effective position making

664
00:49:10.880 --> 00:49:15.280
strategies. Next week, we'll be
on the air with none other than Santa

665
00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:19.079
Roni and Missus Claus as we settle
into the close of the year and celebrate

666
00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:22.159
the magic of the season. We'll
be doing a Facebook live stream as well,

667
00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:24.199
so be sure enjoy that see you
there. Remember that work is at

668
00:49:24.239 --> 00:49:30.400
least a third of our lives,
so let's work on purpose. We hope

669
00:49:30.440 --> 00:49:35.679
you've enjoyed this week's program. Be
sure to tune in to Working on Purpose,

670
00:49:36.039 --> 00:49:39.920
featuring your host, Alice Cortez,
each week on the Voice America Empowerment

671
00:49:40.079 --> 00:49:45.079
Channel. This week, find your
life's purpose at work.