Practicing Creativity for Collective Purpose

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What's working on purpose anyway? Each
week we ponder the answer to this question.

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People ache for meaning and purpose at
work, to contribute their talents passionately

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and know their lives really matter.
They crave being part of an organization that

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inspires them and helps them grow into
realizing their highest potential. Business can be

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such a force for good in the
world, elevating humanity. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration to help
usher in this world we all want

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Working on Purpose. Now. Here
is your host, Doctor Elise Cortes.

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Welcome back to Working a Purpose Program. Thanks for tune in again this week.

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I'm your host, doctor ELISEE Cortestro
and your life from Dallas, Texas,

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which is home base for me my
wave introduction. I'm a management sultan

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specialize in meaning and purpose, organizational
logotherapists, inspirational speaker, social scientist and

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author. There are many ways we
can work together. Check out at leastcore

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test dot com or gustodashnow dot com
to learn how and to download some fresources

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I've put there for you. If
you've been tuning in the show for a

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while, that you know this program
is a thought leadership platform that enlightens,

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it inspires listeners and viewers with insights
from distinguished business leaders, authors and subject

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matter experts. By listening in,
you're part of the movement to create inspirational

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leaders and enlivening workplaces where we can
thrive and do business that betters the world.

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Glad you're here with us for today's
program. As Peter Comber, he

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is the author of the Forces of
Collaborative Creativity and the architect of the collaborative

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Creativity methodology. He's also the founding
partner of Adstrat, a company providing collaborative

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creativity services to the healthcare industry.
We met because we share a publisher of

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practical inspiration. It's a perfect mashup. As I'd like to say, He's

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the wi get smart and articulate,
and I'm energetic and passionate. We'll be

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talking about creativity and how it can
be used and developed to solve business problems

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today. He joined us today from
Milan, where it's midnight there, five

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pm here in Dall's and a full
moon for both of us. Peter,

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Welcome to Working on Purpose. Hello, Hello, thank you very much for

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inviting me. Absolutely absolutely, isn't
this just splendid. Right. If this

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isn't really what the world coming together, I don't know what is, right.

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So it's really really great. And
as we discussed as we were preparing

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to come on Aaron deciding when the
air date would be and this would actually

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be on a full moon, and
we were going to talk about creativity.

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I want a first position for you
listeners and viewers, what we're doing here

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first, and we wanted to make
sure that we gave you access to this

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notion of creative collaboration in a very
experiential way. So Peter's actually going to

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walk me through an exercise here.
He's created something for us. We're doing

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this live, and he's going to
explicate what it is the exercise is and

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then lead me through and then we'll
talk together about what it means for both

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of us. So Peter take it
from there, please, thank you.

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Yes, So we use creativity and
there are many different ways you can involve

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groups of people in creativity. And
so the first thing to say is that

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you and I Elis are a very
small group. Normally the groups are bigger,

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but it's the two of us,
so that's great. And we've both

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done this little exercise and the creative
exercise is a collage exercise where you focus

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on an idea or an emotion or
something to do with the scope of the

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work that we're trying to do,
and you look at a series of images

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and the images that for some reason
resonate you keep when you make a collage

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with them, and that's it.
And that's what we've just done before before

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we came on out. Is that
correct? That is right? And you

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gave me some you gave me a
specific focal point that we probably should Should

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we say that now or does that
come on? Definitely? Definitely, because

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it's all about what you do right, right, And so Peter asked me

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to focus on collective purpose, and
he asked me to consider looking at the

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images, how do I feel about
collective purpose? Positive? Negative? And

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what opportunities and problems do I see
related to it? So that's how I

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picked out I think it was eight
images, I believe, yes, eight

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yes, right? And what I
would like you to do now is I

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would like you to briefly describe those
images so people know what you picked.

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And then the most important thing isn't
the image itself, but what you see

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in that image, why that image
is relevant to collective purpose. So I

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presume you have the PDF in front
of you and you can see him.

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Okay, So if you would like
to stop, please please tell us about

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your images. I will, And
so I'm going to describe the image person.

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Then I'll describe what it was that
compelled me and how I felt about

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it, et cetera, what it
means to me. Perfect first image is

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what appears to be a pile of
humans, and what's interesting about them is

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that they're all wearing it looks like
a blue top and they're all they're all

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piled up in in sort of a
pyramid sort of form, that they're all

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fake faced one direction, uh,
and they're all they're all pulling their hands

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up in the same direction upwards sort
of. So there's like a striving sort

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of a of an indication there for
me. And so why does that call

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me? Is that a purpose is
a very motivating force and it's a very

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it's a very directional thing and helps
us understand it and decide where to put

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our energies and where to put our
focus, how to just kind to make

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decisions, et cetera, in service
of that purpose. And so that image

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to me speaks of a group of
people that are aligned, striving for the

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same thing and working for a common
aim. They have, they have a

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lot in common, and they're their
blue shirts. But yet there's clearly you

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know, they're they're coming together for
a bigger cost. So that's the first

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image. Is it's enough explanation?
Do you want more? That's yes,

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that's plenty, that's great, Thank
you, You're welcome. Next image is

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just a collage of hands, various
colors of hands, and they're all facing

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they're all pointing up and facing the
same direction. So what called me for

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that is that there's a beautiful diversity
represented there that any company certainly needs and

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does well with. And again,
yet they are unified in the sense that

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they're all aiming the same direction.
Those hands are all folk face the same

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direction, and they're also again striving
to a certain extent. There's an intentionality

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there, there's a purpose there,
there's a unis in there that calls me.

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So that's that image. The next
image is a really interesting sort of

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collage of different characters, plants and
animals essentially, and they're all cartoon like

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looking things. There's a there's a
tree, there's it looks like a raccoon,

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there's a it looks like a ram. There's flowers, there's sun flowers.

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And the reason I've picked out what
called me about that particular image,

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I should say, is that again
that speaks to a group of people that

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are or a group of entities or
beings that are all very different. They

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all bring something different to the party, but they seem to be clearly at

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the same party, which I would
call the purpose party. So and I

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like the fact that they all they
all would come at this very very differently.

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They're not this is not in unison. This is a unique approach to

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being at this party, if you
will. But they're all united by being

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at the party. And then the
next image appears to be a red funnel.

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At the top of the image,
there are a bunch of disparate sorts

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of pieces coming into the funnel,
and then out the bottom is a singular

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line of pieces coming out the bottom. And that that calls me because it

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strikes me that as at inside organizations, what works really well is when those

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individuals can come into organization, they
already have their own individual purpose identified or

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some semblance of it. They have
some awareness of it. Those are those

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individuals coming into the funnel, but
they're aligning it with the purpose of the

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organization and together, all together,
combined, there's this tremendous force coming through

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that funnel, all that combined purpose
that really speaks and it's so unified and

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beautiful. And then another image here
is three people standing apart and with their

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arms at their sides, and there
appears to be these beams of energy or

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light connecting or spewing from each one
connecting to the other. That calls me

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because the idea of certainly a purpose
unifying a group, but there's that notion

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of something really big and expansive that's
being transmitted from each individual to the other

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individual parts that catalyzes something even bigger
among them that then also is thread into

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the collective purpose that I think is
very compelling. Three or images. There

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is an image of what looks like
a piece of threaded yarn. So at

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the bottom of the image you of
these individual different colored threads and they've all

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been braided together to create a singular
thread. And that speaks to me summarily,

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and that you've got this beautiful diversity
of individual beings coming together and all

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their diversity and glory. But yet
again they come together. They're threaded together,

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they're connected, they're intertwined, they're
interacting with each other. There's an

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energy exchange there and together they create
this very strong, tightly bound thread or

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yarn that is that is the yarn
coming up to the top. Next image

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is two acrobatic dancers in mid air. Each of them are leaving their respective

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swing and reaching to it certainly appears
to catch the other. And there's something

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about that, right, There's something
about that. There's a leap of faith

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in that, or there's there is
that confidence that this will happen, that

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we will catch each other. And
there's something about collective purpose about this notion

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that there is a confidence I've got
you, I'm here for you, We're

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in this together. That really speaks
to me. And then the last image

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is a series of arrows, all
pointing to the right direction. The biggest

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one of the fire right is a
big green arrow, and behind it are

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a series of smaller arrows that feed
into it. Again, the idea being

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you have individual beings coming into an
organization with their individual purpose. They come

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together, they find a common stream
of common aim align it with that of

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the organization and thread it through and
that's the big, big target and big

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arrow that's pointing to the right.
Perfect. Thank you for that, for

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that great description. I'm going to
jump in and talk about the same exercise

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I did with the same images.
So we both started with sixty three images

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and down I got them down six. And interestingly you and I share two

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images, okay, which is great, So I'll talk about those first.

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One of them is the arrow image
that you described last. And the only

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thing I would add to your description
is that the small arrows are very different.

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There are different styles, different they're
even different colors. So you talked

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extensively and a lot of your images
were about diversity, and that isn't really

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present that much in my collage,
but it is present there, so that's

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why I wanted to point that out. And the other image that we have

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in common are the three people who
are connected by multiple lines. And again

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everything you said, I agree with
what you said about that image related to

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collective purpose. The only thing I
would add is that I really liked that

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image. Is one of the reasons
I really like that image is because there's

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only three people's but there's multiple lines
and I think that gets to the idea

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that it's not just a simple connection
between people, but it's multiple connections and

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multiple thoughts that I needed to keep
just three people together. There's only three

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people there, but there's a lot
of lines, so I liked that.

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What I also have is an image
of letters, three d letters of the

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alphabet, and they're flying around and
they're multicolored, and it just looks like

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a mess and a scrambled sort of
thing where there are no sort of words

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you can understand, but there's letters, And that to me, talks to

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the opposite of purpose. That talks
to me of every single one of those

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letters is doing its own thing,
and none of them are getting together,

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for example, to form a word. So that's the sort of negative space

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of not what happens when you don't
have collective purpose. Another image I chose

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is a can of paint seen from
above, and it's blue paint or a

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light blue paint, and there's white
paint being mixed into it in a spiral.

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And what I like about that is
the way they're very much together,

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because it's quite intricate, the way
these two are coming together, but they're

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still separate. So they're two different
things, still very identifiable, but they're

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amalgamating, and I think that's interesting
the way they spiral together and get closer

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and closer. Then there's a very
there's a close up of an eye,

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a human eye. And the reason
I like that is because a lot of

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collective purpose in my experience is based
around observation. It's a base around learning

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from those around you, learning from
those you serve, and so you really

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collective purpose has to be about observation, has to be also about understanding the

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effects that you that your actions have. So that was that, So I

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thought that was an interesting aspect.
And the last one is a crazy image

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of a piggy bank jumping through a
loop of fire. Okay, And I

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like that for two reasons because that
talks to me about the sort of left

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field craziness of what collectives can do. You know, when human beings get

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together and they have they have a
common purpose, they can achieve the unexpected,

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and I find that very powerful.
And there's also the meaning of collective

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purpose of what the you know,
the things I do after businesses and it's

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all about money in the end.
So yes, you need a purpose,

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but that purpose also needs to be
in some way monetized or in some way

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have a positive effect on the business. So I liked the idea of the

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piggybank being there and saying, Yep, it's all good having a purpose,

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but you also need to pay the
bills. So I popped that in there.

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Okay, this is beautiful. I
want to talk more a bit more

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about this, but we need to
take a quick break here and let me

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acknowledge a question from our listeners here. They're asking, where do we see

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these images? You don't see these
images, listeners. We're going to talk

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more about how we did this and
why this is important and what we're learning

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from it. After the RAG,
I'm your host, Doctor Release Cortez.

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We've run the air with Peter Comber. He is the author of the Forces

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of Collaborative Creativity and the architect of
the collaborative Creativity methodology. He is also

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the founding partner of Abstract, a
company providing collaborative creativity services to the healthcare

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industry. We've been going through a
creativity exercise. After the RIKE, we're

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going to talk more about what that
means and what we can learn from it.

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Stay with us. We'll be right
back. Doctor Elise Cortes is a

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management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose
and inspirational speaker and author. She helps

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companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders
and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused

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cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,
and commitment within the workforce. To learn

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more or to invite Elise to speak
to your organization, please visit her at

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Eleasecortes dot com. Let's talk about
how to get your employees working on purpose.

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This is working on Purpose with doctor
Elise Cortes. To reach our program

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today or open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Alise Alise at

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Elisecortes dot com. Now back to
working on purpose. Interesting with us and

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welcome back to working on purpose.
I'm excited to share with you that during

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the pandemic, I actually had a
baby. It's called a book, and

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this is it. It's called a
purpose ignited how inspiring leader's ignite passion and

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elevate cause. And I am convinced
that appsent the pandemic wouldn't have showed up

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that at least when it did so, I am thankful for that I had

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the time to be able to work
on it. And I really wrote the

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book to transform readers into inspirational leaders
who radically enliven the workplace and elevate the

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contribution of business across as stakeholders.
That's why I wrote it. So it's

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really designed to help you turn on
to your passion, inspiration and purpose and

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then bring it if you're just joining
the program. My guest is Peter Comber.

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He is the author of the Forces
of Collaborative Creativity and the architect of

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the Collaborative Creativity methodology. I'm your
host, doctor Les Cortes. So Peter,

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let's talk with a little bit about
just debrief that exercise so listeners understand

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just what was the value of it
and what we can learn from it and

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what they can gain from having heard
us do it together. Sure well,

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the value of it is the self
when that you and I both have now

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of our of our thoughts and even
feelings towards the subject, our chosen subject.

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The bigger value would in a in
I mean this is just an exercise,

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but in a real setting, the
value would now come from you and

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I and presumably a bigger group of
people examining where we align, where we

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don't align and what opportunities and what
threats lie within that. So you and

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I think we I think our exercises
turned out to be refreshingly different but very

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aligned. I don't think we'd have
a big disconnect about you know, collective

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purpose and where we would go with
our project from here. Okay, But

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quite often when we do this,
there's a problem somewhere and that's why we're

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doing it, and this kind of
exercise helps. That helps that group understand

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and acknowledge and therefore confront in a
safe environment and in a creative environment,

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their differences. Because if people aren't
aligned about, you know, what they

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think about something important, like,
for example, purpose, they're not going

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to deliver it properly. And that's
bad for businesses. It is. And

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one of the things that you say
in the book, and as you know,

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I read books of that, I
have from my guests cover to cover,

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one of the things that you said
in the book that was really really

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lovely to me and sort of arresting
us. You see that collaborative creativity uses

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the creative actor as a way to
bridge the divide between conscious and unconscious.

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Fascinating, and I guess you're just
in the in the exchange that we had,

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I did get present to some things
that maybe were lying under my surface,

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and when I had to see them, maybe they become they became conscious.

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Yes, So the vast majority of
our thoughts are not conscious thoughts.

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U. I'm not a you know, scientist, neurologist or whatever. I

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only know enough to be dangerous.
But it's a fact that most of what

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we think and even our decisions,
they're not things that are actually processed in

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a conscious way. And creativity is
a really good way for when the creativity

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is set up to explore a certain
area, it's a really good way for,

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you know, lifting up the cover
and seeing what's going on in those

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unconscious processes. And one of the
things that's really fascinating. You're a very

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articulate person, and I think you
were very comfortable with the subject I gave

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you, because it's your subject,
right, But when you have people who

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are working on something that they're not
very comfortable with when they present, they're

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not as fluent as you were,
They're not as easy with their explanations,

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and you can see them grasping for
meaning. You can see them asking themselves,

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why did I choose this image,
and that search, you know,

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they always come to some kind of
reconciliation and that search is enlightening for the

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person. It's like why did I
choose that image? And then they kind

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of figure it out and then they
start talking very quickly instead of you know,

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haltingly and you know, puzzlingly.
Once they latch onto it, they

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oh, yeah, this is and
those are the breakthroughs and those are the

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interesting things. So speaking of that, one of the things that I got

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from reading your book, Peter,
which it was very eliminating for me.

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Creativity is a very interesting space for
me, and I feel like as I

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get older, I cultivate it more
and I feel like I can be proud

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of my creativity and I love it. But what you just said there speaks

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to the first thing, the first
point here. You talk about five collaborative

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forces of collaborative creativity. Just quickly, you talk about one is self discovery,

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so understanding yourself realizing, Well why
did I pick that? Number Two

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is empathy, understanding others very very
interesting, through realization, which is personal

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satisfaction, and for invention, new
ideas obviously in five cohesion collective purpose.

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So I wanted to bring that up
just quickly for our listeners and viewers that

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so we can start to recognize what's
under all of this creative, creative collaboration

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that you created for us. And
so before we go onto the next thing,

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I wanted to dig down deeper anything
that you want to see about those

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real quick before me move on.
Yes, I would just like to say

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that most people confuse creativity and innovation. They say, we need some creativity,

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yes, charged yes, we need
some creativity, And what they actually

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mean is we need a widget,
we need a solution, okay, And

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I think we need to take a
step back and we need to recognize that

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creativity is a process. It's a
means to an end, all right.

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So the creative process can lead to
innovation and change, okay. And you

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know the force that I recognize that
gets you there is invention, right.

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Invention is coming up with new stuff, and in the right conditions, inventions

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become innovation and change. Right.
But that's not the only end you can

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have from creativity. Creativity can also
be the other things you mentioned, especially

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self discovery especially. I think the
most important one though, is cohesion,

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because this is collaborative creativity after all, so you know, cutting to the

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chase all the other things are extremely
important. But if you can use creativity

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to get people to have co authorship
of something and a true sense that they're

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doing something together that has meaning because
they made it together. And I would

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just like to underline the fact that
co authorship doesn't mean you have to invent

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the whole thing. You know,
co authorship can be in this big picture.

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I created that bit. Okay,
that's very important. We're talking.

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We imagine a mosaic where everybody puts
their own little tile in, you know,

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that's the kind of thing. And
I think that transforms the way businesses

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deliver. Businesses that have one person, one genius who comes up with with

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with with the with the big idea, and everybody else is a drone who

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executes it, they're only as good
as the control they have on their drones.

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Whereas businesses who have a group who
create things and deliver it and produce

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it and know why they they're turning
up to work every day. That's a

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completely different organization. The way the
way it works and the way it's resilient.

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Mm hmm, how beautiful. Well, and speaking of that, one

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of the things that you say in
your book is you say that, well,

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first, creatively begins with a dissatisfaction
with something, which provokes a desire

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to change it, and this leads
to ideas about how to make the chance,

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make the choice, and finally action
that creates the change. So what

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I was struck by is the notion
of it starts with dissatisfaction with something,

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and I thought that was really interesting. Yes, So what that's getting at

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is companies tend to be dissatisfied with
something because it's not performing the way it

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should. But what you should really
look for is what's the dissatisfaction of the

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people who have to use that thing. So, if it's a product,

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what are your customers dissatisfaction? If
it's an internal organization issue, what is

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the thing in the company that isn't
working? And you really need to find

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out what the problem is. I
think a lot of companies are solution oriented.

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Some someway says we need a new
something, a new widget, okay,

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and they think that's going to be
the solution to everything. But if

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you describe the solution, you're limiting
your options for innovation. Whereas if you

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identify the problem and the real problem, And by real problem, I mean

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the the elephant in the room,
especially within companies. You know, once

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you've identified the real problem, that's
when when true solutions start presenting themselves,

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long term solutions. Well, then
you take it a step further, Peter,

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which I thought was very intriguing,
is then you go on to say

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it helps to see a problem from
someone else's perspective for creativity, so we're

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really employing empathy here we're listening.
That was really really interesting. Say a

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little bit more about that. Why
is that so important? Well, in

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business, you're in there, you're
in applied creativity. So the distinction we

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need to make is that an artist's
you know, a musician, whoever,

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if they're making the music for them
and it's their self expression, that's fine.

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But if you are in a business
and you're creating something for people,

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if you don't completely understand what those
people want, and quite often that involves

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understanding helping those people understand what they
want. As I've said earlier, you

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know the whole college thing, you
know, self discovery. There's people tend

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to be quite sort of simple and
incremental in there. If you ask them

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a straight, straight question, like
what would you like from a new car.

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They're going to give you a very
incremental kind of description of what they

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want, all right, But if
you look at what this fact satisfies them

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about cars, you might come up
with a transport system that isn't a car.

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Because if I say, the thing
that annoys me the most about my

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car is having to park it,
then the whole idea of a car suddenly

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is a problem. Whereas if you
ask somebody how could I improve your car?

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You know they're going to come up
with you know, I want more

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seats, I want more windows,
more horsepower. So I think you really

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need to get I mean, empathy
is understanding people's problems. Mm hmmm,

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that's beautiful. And again I think
it really helps get our listeners and our

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viewers if you will well stay with
the car analogy like getting under the hood

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of creativity where how does it happen
and where does it come from? And

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how does it work? And furthermore
you speak also you say that the aim

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of collective creativity is to make possible
to talk, make it possible to talk

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about rolemant emotions, beliefs, and
experiences. And that is such an unobvious

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notion for me that you would actually
do, you would provoke creativity and collaboration

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around discussion around those things. Well, my company specializes in healthcare, okay,

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And healthcare is i mean, business
in general is quite rational, you

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know, it tries to be you
know, rational and as non emotional as

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is viable, you know, and
healthcare is the extreme example of that,

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okay, And it doesn't really work
because people are not rational. They are

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incredibly emotional, and they become even
more so when confronting health issues. Sometimes

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even professionals. You know, I've
done I've done lots and lots of these

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things with physicians, and you know, I've had quite a few of them

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cry because you know, once you
get them into the situation where they're not,

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you know, behind that mask of
professionalism and distancing themselves from everything,

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and you really get them talking about
the issues and what it's like to make

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certain decisions and what it's like to
you know, to deal with certain situations.

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And when you talk to patients or
caregivers, you know, we work

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with with caregivers of people who who
are very, very sick, and there's

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a lot of emotion there. And
if you go in with a list of

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questions very rationally, and you say
something stupid like do you care about your

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loved one the person you're looking after? The answer is yes, obviously.

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But if you go in and you
do something creative, you can start to

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understand the contrasting emotions and the richness
of that experience and that situation. And

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when we talk about collaborative creativity and
working in groups, we're also talking about

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getting doctors and patients and caregivers in
a dialogue, because there is a lot

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lot of missed opportunities and misunderstandings when
they talk. You know, doctors sometimes

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don't understand what patients are saying,
and sometimes patients don't understand what doctors are

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saying. And the root of it
isn't just you know, language, it

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isn't just the sentences being put together. It's conceptual and it's also emotional.

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You know, you're saying something I
don't want to hear basically, right.

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I can see though, how this
opens such a richness of vain if you

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will, of a way of seeing
something, a way of reaching for and

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connecting for something. I can see
that. Now, do we have time

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for a little anecdote? You know? Well, we do? Can we

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get it out of the break,
yes, can you hold it after the

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break? Okay, all right,
let's grab our next break. Here.

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Emilice Cortez your host. We're in
there with Peter Cumber. He is the

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author of the Forces of Collaborative Creativity
in the architect of the Collaborative Creativity Methodology.

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Is also the founding partner of Atstrat, a company providing collaborative creativity services

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to the healthcare industry. We've been
talking about really how to use collaborative creativity

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as a useful concept. After the
rank will continue the conversation. Stay with

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us. We'll be right back.
Doctor Release Cortes is a management consultant specializing

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00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:25.400
in meaning and purpose and inspirational speaker
and author. She helps companies visioneer for

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greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose
inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate

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00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:38.200
fulfillment, performance, and commitment within
the workforce. To learn more or to

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00:32:38.279 --> 00:32:43.839
invite a lease to speak to your
organization, please visit her at Eleasecretes dot

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00:32:43.880 --> 00:32:54.039
com. Let's talk about how to
get your employees working on purpose. This

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00:32:54.200 --> 00:32:59.720
is working on purpose with doctor Release
Cortes. To reach our program today or

402
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:05.960
open a conversation with Alise, send
an email to a lease Alise at Elise

403
00:33:06.039 --> 00:33:16.680
Coortes dot com. Now back to
working on Purpose. Thanks for stating with

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00:33:16.759 --> 00:33:21.200
us, and welcome back to working
on Purpose. Another announcement for you is

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00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:24.920
that we've launched the Gusto now platform. It's an e learning platform designed to

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00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:28.920
deliver the Vinely inspired and other courses
that I've created some time ago, and

407
00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:30.960
we do it in English, Spanish, and Portuguese. How it happened was

408
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:34.359
as we were going through a pandemic, as I wanted to figure out what

409
00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:37.240
else can I do that I haven't
been able to do lately, and that

410
00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:39.640
was the whole language thing. So
Spanish Portuguese are really my favorite languages,

411
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:44.400
so I would do all three languages
on a platform. And I do offer

412
00:33:44.440 --> 00:33:46.759
a twenty percent discount to listeners,
so thanks for listening in you use the

413
00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:52.079
code WOP twenty at checkout to redeem
it. Sewing class, he're just joining

414
00:33:52.119 --> 00:33:55.440
us. My guest is Peter Comberg. He is the author of the Forces

415
00:33:55.440 --> 00:34:00.839
of Collaborative Creativity and the architect of
collaborative creativity methodology. I'm your host,

416
00:34:00.920 --> 00:34:04.519
doctor Elis Cortes and Peter, just
before the break, you were queuing us

417
00:34:04.599 --> 00:34:07.559
up for an antidote about what we
were talking about, so please share it.

418
00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:15.039
Yeah, so this is a job
we did quite a while ago.

419
00:34:15.000 --> 00:34:20.480
So I can't go into details because
we signed NDA's and they're pretty ferocious,

420
00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:27.599
but I'll give you the top I'll
give you the top line. We got

421
00:34:27.639 --> 00:34:35.840
a bunch of very highly specialists,
okay specialists in a condition for which there

422
00:34:35.960 --> 00:34:39.079
was no cure, and then there
was a cure. Somebody invented a cure

423
00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:44.039
and all of a sudden, these
doctors could literally take away the cause of

424
00:34:44.000 --> 00:34:49.360
the illness of these people. And
so for a while they had a monopoly.

425
00:34:49.559 --> 00:34:55.320
They were the only people with with
that cure. And the client hired

426
00:34:55.599 --> 00:35:00.360
us because twelve months in twelve months
time, they're going to lose the monopoly

427
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:04.840
and other people are going to be
coming up with a cure, and so

428
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:10.119
they wanted to feel the pulse of
specialists and you know, feel how they

429
00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:17.440
were anticipating the new products coming in. And one of the exercises we did,

430
00:35:17.480 --> 00:35:23.119
so every workshop we do, we
do multiple exercises, but one of

431
00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:28.960
the exercises we did was a time
travel exercise where we took all these specialists.

432
00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:31.679
We put them in small groups and
we said, you know, you

433
00:35:31.719 --> 00:35:36.719
need to go off and five years
ago, and you need to go to

434
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:40.159
a conference, and you need to
tell your colleagues from the past what the

435
00:35:40.159 --> 00:35:45.119
futures like. You need to tell
them everything they need to know about now,

436
00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:47.880
and you can choose five things,
all right, And so each of

437
00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:53.039
the groups presented their speech, and
there were I think five groups, and

438
00:35:53.239 --> 00:35:59.079
at the end of the presentation of
the last group, I asked them why

439
00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:01.880
none of them had told their colleagues
in the past that there was a cure,

440
00:36:04.599 --> 00:36:07.159
And every single one of them just
sort of the draw their jaw dropped,

441
00:36:07.159 --> 00:36:10.000
and they were like, how could
we have done that? And the

442
00:36:10.039 --> 00:36:16.599
following conversation was, you know,
self discovery embodied, and it was all

443
00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:22.079
about the fact that the cure did
you know, cure. The cure cure

444
00:36:22.119 --> 00:36:29.760
the problem, but it didn't cure
the existing damage done by the disease.

445
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:35.039
So they were still people who they'd
cured. They were still seeing them and

446
00:36:35.079 --> 00:36:40.519
they were still you know, they
had issues. And so that completely reset

447
00:36:40.679 --> 00:36:46.639
our clients' expectations and their and you
know, it created empathy because the client

448
00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:51.000
instead of saying, oh, we're
great, we invented the cure. Now

449
00:36:51.039 --> 00:36:55.480
they were okay, we get it. These people understand, you know,

450
00:36:55.559 --> 00:36:58.960
intellectually, if we asked them if
there's a cure, they say, yeah,

451
00:36:58.960 --> 00:37:00.960
of course there's a cure. I've
been using it for two years.

452
00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:07.199
But what that means for their practice
isn't the kind of thing we intended or

453
00:37:07.239 --> 00:37:12.199
we understand to be cure. And
that goes back to the whole thing about

454
00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:15.199
words. You know, if I
say to you, cure, it triggers

455
00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:20.719
something in your brain. But to
the person who said, yes, there's

456
00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:24.880
a cure, it's something very different. Well, and that gets to the

457
00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:28.119
next question that I wanted to get
to. And you and I spoke about

458
00:37:28.119 --> 00:37:30.679
this on our first conversation as we're
planning to have you come on air,

459
00:37:31.079 --> 00:37:35.800
and that was this whole limitation of
language, which is really interesting being somebody

460
00:37:35.800 --> 00:37:37.440
here. I just was talking about
I love being a linguist and I love

461
00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:42.000
speaking to foreign languages, and now
we talk about there's actually limitations to it.

462
00:37:42.039 --> 00:37:44.280
And what you say in the book
is very interesting. You say,

463
00:37:44.320 --> 00:37:47.440
while language seems to be controlled at
a very conscious and rational level on our

464
00:37:47.480 --> 00:37:52.360
brains, creative thinking occurs in deeper
and more ancient areas of the brain.

465
00:37:52.559 --> 00:37:57.320
Very interesting. The idea is you
have revealed something about you. Creative thought

466
00:37:57.400 --> 00:38:01.840
access excesses deeper areas of our mind
than those concerned with logic and language,

467
00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:07.760
so its manifestations can show you unexpected, unconscious beliefs, emotions, and internal

468
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:15.679
contradictions. Fascinating. Peter, say
more about that. Yes, so we

469
00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:23.679
are self deceiving being animals being,
Yes, we deceive others, but we're

470
00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:32.599
also pretty good at deceiving ourselves and
creativity when people are when people talk,

471
00:38:34.159 --> 00:38:38.960
they're very good at keeping those deceptions
alive. When they create, they stumble

472
00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:45.840
a bit. And I think it's
because we are used to projecting an image

473
00:38:45.159 --> 00:38:49.800
with you know, our words and
the way we dress, but we're not.

474
00:38:50.119 --> 00:38:54.159
We're not used because people don't do
creativity usually. I mean, we're

475
00:38:54.199 --> 00:39:00.400
all sort of normal. Most people
are quite stifled in their creativity, okay,

476
00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:02.639
And because it's something they're not used
to, I don't think they could.

477
00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:06.760
They can do it in an artificial
way. They do it in a

478
00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:10.719
very authentic way, and that means, you know, the truth is out

479
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:17.639
when they do it. And I
think the whole thing about words is even

480
00:39:17.719 --> 00:39:25.559
worse because even if I don't want
to be ambiguous, if you and I

481
00:39:25.719 --> 00:39:32.119
don't share the exact same definition of
a word or a term or a concept,

482
00:39:32.880 --> 00:39:37.400
we can agree on something but have
two completely different ideas. And I'll

483
00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:43.000
give you a little example. If
you go to pretty much any meeting in

484
00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:45.639
any company and you say, oh, we need to be more transparent,

485
00:39:46.440 --> 00:39:51.039
pretty much everybody says yes because it
sounds like a good idea. It sounds

486
00:39:51.079 --> 00:39:53.639
like a good value, doesn't it. You know, if we're talking about

487
00:39:53.719 --> 00:39:59.559
you know, collective purpose, let's
all be more transparent. Yes, great

488
00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:05.400
idea, but what does that actually
mean your idea of transparency, my idea

489
00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:09.599
of transparency, the finance, but
the department's idea of transparency. You know,

490
00:40:10.800 --> 00:40:16.360
that's where it all gets really interesting. And that's where creativity can help

491
00:40:16.599 --> 00:40:22.639
people. Because adults are not good
at sitting in a room and saying I

492
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:27.079
don't understand what your view of transparency
is. They're not very good at that.

493
00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:30.239
Kids are good at it. Kids
are great at saying I don't get

494
00:40:30.280 --> 00:40:34.360
that. But the older you get, you don't want to look stupid because

495
00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:37.039
somebody just said we need more transparency
and you can't stand up and say,

496
00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:44.199
what do you mean? You look
stupid? Right? I get that that

497
00:40:44.280 --> 00:40:49.679
makes complete sense. So creativity is
a great way to get people to look

498
00:40:49.800 --> 00:40:55.920
minutely at things that might be taken
for granted, and those things which are

499
00:40:55.920 --> 00:41:00.079
taken for granted are the source of
discord within an organization. So it's like

500
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:05.480
we're all rallying around this thing,
but actually everybody's rallying around their own version

501
00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:12.400
of it. Interesting well, speaking
of the whole idea of creativity and an

502
00:41:12.440 --> 00:41:15.440
organization. One of the things that
I also really appreciated about your book and

503
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:17.960
the message in it, and it
certainly aligns with what I would do as

504
00:41:19.000 --> 00:41:22.960
somebody who empowers people, is I
like how you encourage telling people insie organizations

505
00:41:22.960 --> 00:41:27.239
that they are creative and that you
believe that they're the right choice to tackle

506
00:41:27.320 --> 00:41:30.280
certain problems. It just seems to
me, again from the empower position,

507
00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:35.559
but also it just engenders a creative
culture, it encourages it. It seems.

508
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:45.280
Yes, definitely, I think companies
need to have more creative space and

509
00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:52.599
co creative space, because individual creative
space is great and it's very gratifying and

510
00:41:52.679 --> 00:42:00.480
it's rewarding, but it's not necessarily
contributing to the business. It's it's more

511
00:42:00.519 --> 00:42:06.840
focused on the individual. So yes, I do think there needs to be

512
00:42:06.880 --> 00:42:15.800
more creativity, and I think that
creativity has to be focused on getting get

513
00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:24.599
focused on empathy and focused on getting
people aligned on cohesion. Those are the

514
00:42:24.599 --> 00:42:30.039
two keys, and I think we're
going to see a need more and more

515
00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:35.039
because if you look at, you
know, the whole work from home thing.

516
00:42:35.199 --> 00:42:39.239
I mean, this year has been
crazy, and you see a lot

517
00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:45.119
of talk about how the sort of
the casual encounter, the serendipity, the

518
00:42:45.159 --> 00:42:52.679
sort of the coffee machine idea and
discussion disappears with work from home. I

519
00:42:52.800 --> 00:43:00.119
think the idea of people sort of
understanding each other around a coffee machine is

520
00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:01.920
not good business practice. Even if
you are in an office, I think

521
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:06.199
you should try and make it a
bit more robust than that. But if

522
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:13.119
people are working from home, the
idea of having creative moments when people can

523
00:43:13.159 --> 00:43:20.159
align and confront in a safe way
is very important. Well, and you

524
00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:23.679
do talk about how creativity affects human
relationships, and you already said before you

525
00:43:23.679 --> 00:43:29.880
know something profound happens to people who
share and develop ideas together. But you

526
00:43:29.920 --> 00:43:32.760
also talk about there being a transfer
of energy and a kind of intellectual intimacy,

527
00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:37.599
and so of course being somebody who's
a meaning and work researcher, and

528
00:43:37.639 --> 00:43:40.320
I care about the experience, about
elevating the experience of work for people so

529
00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:45.760
that it can be something that's more
fulfilling for them. That is incredibly alluring.

530
00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:53.239
Yes, I mean, when a
group starts kicking around an idea,

531
00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:59.679
it's very unusual for that idea to
be immediately in three seconds perfect, okay.

532
00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:05.280
Somebody usually says something that sparks a
conversation, and during the course of

533
00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:08.840
that conversation, different people add different
bits to it, change it, subvert

534
00:44:08.920 --> 00:44:13.559
it, and what you end up
at the end of the day, literally

535
00:44:13.800 --> 00:44:21.800
eight hours later, is unrecognizable from
the first spark that got that thing going.

536
00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:25.960
But all the energy and all the
transfer of of you know, intellectual

537
00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:35.800
creativity and just sort of transfer,
all that stuff adds up into a very

538
00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:42.760
strong human experience. It sure beats
a meeting, you know. You know

539
00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:45.920
how when you walk out of a
meeting and it's like, oh God,

540
00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:47.760
that was boring, man, how
many slides did we see? And what

541
00:44:47.880 --> 00:44:51.320
was the discussion about? Later?
I mean, it was deadly, you

542
00:44:51.320 --> 00:44:58.079
know, it's not conducive to and
it's not conducive to getting people excited,

543
00:44:58.719 --> 00:45:07.719
whereas creative and building an idea together
is exciting. It certainly is well.

544
00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:12.280
You and I have come together and
both of us have produced a book in

545
00:45:12.320 --> 00:45:16.159
this pandemic and so and you've already
started to talk about the changing workplace because

546
00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:19.719
of the pandemic. I think it
really makes a lot of sense for you,

547
00:45:19.880 --> 00:45:22.239
especially as a man of creativity and
collaboration, to share. I'd like

548
00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:27.519
to hear some of the chief learnings
that you see business taking from the coronavirus

549
00:45:27.559 --> 00:45:37.320
pandemic. Wow. I think one
of the key learnings will be that we

550
00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:42.840
need to talk more about emotions.
I think I think there needs to be

551
00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:51.039
a more structured, safe way of
talking about emotions in the workplace. And

552
00:45:51.519 --> 00:45:58.000
I also think that it fits into
the idea of diversity because one of the

553
00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:00.320
interesting things about creativity, and this
is proven this is, you know,

554
00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:09.719
not anecdotal experiments prove it. Diverse
groups that do creativity together have far stronger

555
00:46:09.760 --> 00:46:15.840
ideas. Stronger it means, more
appropriate, more robust everything. Whereas the

556
00:46:15.920 --> 00:46:22.199
more people are alike who come together
and have an idea, the more that

557
00:46:22.599 --> 00:46:29.480
idea is one sided and quite often
it's a weak idea. I mean,

558
00:46:29.480 --> 00:46:31.239
people just sort of agree with each
other. It's like, oh yeah,

559
00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:36.000
that's great, oh completely. You
know, you need a bit of friction,

560
00:46:36.119 --> 00:46:39.880
and you need a bit of push
and pull with diverse ideas and diverse

561
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:47.840
people with diverse experiences to get to
somewhere really universally interesting. And so yeah,

562
00:46:47.880 --> 00:46:53.880
I think businesses need to figure out
thanks to you know, collaborative creativity,

563
00:46:53.920 --> 00:46:59.599
but also other ways of working.
They need to figure out how to

564
00:46:59.679 --> 00:47:04.800
incorp great emotions into business in an
appropriate way. And they also need to

565
00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:09.239
wake up to the fact that diversity
is an asset and it becomes crystal clear

566
00:47:09.239 --> 00:47:14.360
when you do creativity. Mm hm. You know, we've been talking about

567
00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:16.679
diversity for so long. Do you
really think that they were just finally sort

568
00:47:16.679 --> 00:47:22.840
of now getting it. It's taken
us how many decades? Wow? I

569
00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:30.280
mean yes, I mean that's I
mean, I my personal experience. I

570
00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:37.199
grew up in in Britain and in
the you know, I went to school

571
00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:42.639
in seventies and eighties, and you
know, our class was, you know,

572
00:47:42.679 --> 00:47:45.320
our classes were very different. There
were lots of different types of people

573
00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:50.559
in terms of you know, beliefs
and all the rest of it. And

574
00:47:50.599 --> 00:47:52.920
then I moved to Italy and Italy
was very different. Italy was very much

575
00:47:53.440 --> 00:48:00.679
monoculture. Okay, and that's changed, you know, it is now multicultural.

576
00:48:02.039 --> 00:48:07.360
But the difference was shocking. The
difference was really strange. And I

577
00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:13.719
still have that kind of feeling when
I go into lots of businesses, when

578
00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:16.480
you go into lots of big corporate
headquarters and you look around, it's like,

579
00:48:19.079 --> 00:48:24.480
these people are pretty much all the
same. Just quickly, I want

580
00:48:24.519 --> 00:48:28.719
to grab that notion of you,
that you that you are in Italy for

581
00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:30.000
the last what thirty some thirty six
years, I think it was, and

582
00:48:30.519 --> 00:48:34.639
you and I spoke before that.
There's something about using language in a different

583
00:48:34.679 --> 00:48:36.880
way, right, So when you
come into a different culture, you have

584
00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:38.960
a different language, you see the
world differently, you describe the world differently,

585
00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:44.079
and that I feel like having lived
in Spain and Brazil really did help

586
00:48:44.119 --> 00:48:47.280
me access creativity in a different way
because I had to use language in a

587
00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:50.840
different way. I could see the
world differently because of the way that I

588
00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:53.440
describe it in that culture, and
I just think that's interesting. We're getting

589
00:48:53.480 --> 00:48:55.960
close to the end of the show. Here, so just for fun and

590
00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:00.360
grins and giggles, tell us in
Italian what you had for dinner? Please?

591
00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:04.760
What did I have for dinner?
I had? Oh my god,

592
00:49:04.800 --> 00:49:08.599
that was a while ago. Oh
yes, I had. I can't say

593
00:49:08.639 --> 00:49:14.079
in Italian because I had falafel,
which is our Okay, okay, well

594
00:49:14.079 --> 00:49:17.119
never mind. Then come on,
I'll lie. I'll say, I'll lie,

595
00:49:17.159 --> 00:49:20.119
and I'll say what I had,
what I had the other day,

596
00:49:21.159 --> 00:49:25.519
which is lasagne di veda. Okay, Well, we've come to the end

597
00:49:25.559 --> 00:49:29.400
of the show already, Peter.
You know the shows listened to across the

598
00:49:29.440 --> 00:49:34.079
world and it's all designed help people
create more meaningful workplaces and create inspirational leaders.

599
00:49:34.519 --> 00:49:37.519
What would like to leave our listeners
with saying about twenty seconds. In

600
00:49:37.599 --> 00:49:45.199
twenty seconds, I would invite everybody
to experiment with creativity in groups in their

601
00:49:45.239 --> 00:49:52.159
office. Give yourselves a task,
give yourselves multiple exercises, and make make

602
00:49:52.199 --> 00:49:57.400
sure everybody joins in beautiful way.
To finish, Peter, thank you so

603
00:49:57.480 --> 00:50:00.360
much for coming into my sphere.
It is delightful to know you and be

604
00:50:00.519 --> 00:50:04.199
on this path with you, and
thank you for sharing your wisdom, your

605
00:50:04.199 --> 00:50:07.000
creativity, and your spirit. Thank
you so much. Well, thank you

606
00:50:07.039 --> 00:50:10.119
so much for inviting me and I
always enjoy talking with you. Thank you

607
00:50:10.199 --> 00:50:14.559
very much. Likewise, listeners and
viewers, if you want to learn more

608
00:50:14.559 --> 00:50:17.679
about Peter Comber or his book The
Forces of Collaborative Creativity or the Workiness Team

609
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:22.360
do at Abstract visit him. There's
a couple of places you can go to,

610
00:50:22.960 --> 00:50:25.639
Sorry, Peter, is it asstrat
A S t R A T yes

611
00:50:25.840 --> 00:50:31.119
A T S t R A T
dot com okay, as at strat okay.

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And then the other your personal website
is Peter dash Comber c O M

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00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:39.079
B E R dot net. Correct, So visit those two places. Have

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00:50:39.159 --> 00:50:42.599
a look. Last week you've used
the live show, you can always catch

615
00:50:42.639 --> 00:50:45.480
a recorded podcast. We were on
there with Tim Spiker talking about his book

616
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:50.880
The Only Leaders Worth Following. We
talked about how two of the eight eight

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00:50:50.920 --> 00:50:54.480
characteristics that make effective leaders account for
sixty seven percent of their effectiveness, and

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00:50:54.519 --> 00:50:59.440
they boil down to personal development and
self understanding. Next week we'll be on

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will be kick off the new year
and six years of programming with Michael Levy,

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00:51:01.760 --> 00:51:06.079
who's the CEO of Work Proud,
talking about the importance of people being

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00:51:06.119 --> 00:51:07.760
proud of their work and how those
contributes to the bottom line results for the

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00:51:07.800 --> 00:51:10.280
company. See you there, I
remember that works at least of their real

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00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:20.440
life. So let's work on purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this week's program.

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00:51:20.760 --> 00:51:23.519
Be sure to tune in too Working
on Purpose featuring your host, doctor

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00:51:23.559 --> 00:51:30.199
Elise Cortes, each week on the
Voice America Empowerment Channel. Together, we'll

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00:51:30.239 --> 00:51:37.599
create a world where business operates conscientiously, leadership inspires impassioned performance, and employees

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00:51:37.639 --> 00:51:42.199
are fulfilled in work that provides the
meaning and purpose they crave. See you

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00:51:42.280 --> 00:51:44.480
there, Let's work on Purpose.