Practicing Creativity for Collective Purpose

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What's working on Purpose anyway? Each
week we ponder the answer to this question.

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People ache for meaning and purpose at
work, to contribute their talents passionately

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and know their lives really matter.
They crave being part of an organization that

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inspires them and helps them grow into
realizing their highest potential. Business can be

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such a force for good in the
world, elevating humanity. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration to help
usher in this world we all want.

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Working on Purpose now. Here is
your host, Doctor Elise Cortez.

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Welcome back to Working on Purpose program. Thanks for tuning again this week.

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I'm your host, doctor Elise cortestrant
who live from Dallas, Texas, which

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is home based for me by wave
introduction. I'm a management salon specializing in

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meaning and purpose, organizational logo therapist, inspirational speaker, social scientist, and

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author. There are many ways we
can work together. Check out at least

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cortest dot com, orgusto dashnow dot
com to learn how and to download some

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fresources I've put there for you.
If you've been tuning in this show for

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a while, I think you know. This program is a thought leadership platform

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that enlightens and inspires listeners and viewers
with insights from distinguished business leaders, authors

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and subject matter experts. By listening
in, you're part of the movement to

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create inspirational leaders in enlivening workplaces where
we can thrive and do business set better

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as the world. Glad you're here
with us for today's program. Is Peter

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Comber. He is the author of
the Forces of Collaborative Creativity and the architect

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of the collaborative creativity and methodology.
He's also the founding partner of Adstrat,

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a company providing collaborative creativity services to
the healthcare industry. We met because we

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share a publisher of practical inspiration.
It's a perfect mashup. As I'd like

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to say, He's to wicked,
smart and articulate, and I'm energetic and

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passionate. We'll be talking about creativity
and how it can be used and developed

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to solve business problems today. He
joins it today from Milan, where it's

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midnight there, five pm here in
Dal's and a full moon for both of

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us. Peter, Welcome to Working
on Purpose. Hello, Hello, thank

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you very much for inviting me to
be absolutely isn't this just splendid. Right

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this, If this isn't really what
the world coming together, I don't know

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what is, right, So it's
it's really really great. And as we

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discussed as we were preparing to come
on air, deciding when the ear date

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would be and this would actually be
on a full moon, and we were

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going to talk about creativity. I
want a first position for you listeners and

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viewers, what we're doing here first, and we wanted to make sure that

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we gave you access to this notion
of creative collaboration in a very experiential way.

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So we're Peter's actually going to walk
me through an exercise here. He's

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created something for us. We're doing
this live, and he's going to explicate

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what what it is the exercise is
and then lead me through and then we'll

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talk together about what it means for
both of us. So Peter take it

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from there. Please, thank you. Yes, So we use creativity and

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there are many different ways you can
involve groups of people in creativity. And

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so the first thing to say is
that you and I Lees are a very

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small group. Normally the groups are
bigger, but it's the two of us,

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So that's great, and we've both
done this little exercise, and the

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creative exercise is a collage exercise where
you focus on an idea or an emotion

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or something to do with the scope
of the work that we're trying to do,

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and you look at a series of
images, and the images that for

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some reason resonate you keep when you
make a collage with them, and that's

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it. And that's what we've just
done before before we came on air.

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Is that correct? That is right? And you gave me some you gave

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me a specific focal point that we
probably should Should we say that now or

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does that come definitely? Definitely,
because it's all about what you do right,

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right, And so Peter asked me
to focus on collective purpose, and

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he asked me to consider looking at
the images, how do I feel about

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collective purpose a positive negative? And
what opportunities and problems do I see related

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to it? So that's how I
picked out I think it was eight images,

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I believe, yes, eight,
yes, right? And what I

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would like you to do now is
I would like you to briefly describe those

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images so people know what you picked. And then the most important thing isn't

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the image itself, but what you
see in that image, why that image

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is relevant to collective purpose. So
I presume you have the PDF in front

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of you and you can see him. Okay, So if you would like

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to start, please please tell us
about your images. I will, and

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so I'm gonna I'm gonna describe the
image person. Then I'll describe what it

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was that compelled me and how I
thought about it, et cetera, what

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it means to me perfectly. First
image is what appears to be a pile

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of humans. And what's interesting about
them is that they're all wearing it looks

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like a blue top, and they're
all they're all piled up in in sort

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of a pyramid sort of form,
but they're all faced one direction and they

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are all they're all pulling their hands
up in the same direction, upwards sort

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of. So there's like a striving
sort of an indication there for me.

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And so why does that call me? Is that a purpose is a very

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motivating force, and it's a very
it's a very directional thing. It helps

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us understand it and decide where to
put our energies and where to put our

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focus, how to just how to
make decisions, et cetera in service of

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that purpose. And so that image, to me, speaks of a group

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of people that are aligned, striving
for the same thing and working for a

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common aim they have, they have
a lot in common, and they're they're

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blue shirts, but yet there's clearly
you know, they're they're coming together for

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a bigger cost. So that's the
first image is it's not enough explanation?

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Do you want more? That's yes, that's plenty, that's great, thank

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you, thank you, welcome.
Next image is just a collage of hands,

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various colors of hands, and they're
all facing they're all pointing up and

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facing the same direction. So what
called me for that is that there's a

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beautiful diversity represented there that any company
certainly needs and does well with. And

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again, yet they are unified in
the sense that they're all aiming the same

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direction. Those hands are all face
the same direction, and they're also again

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striving to a certain extent. There's
a there's an intentionality there, there's a

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purpose there, there's a unison there
that calls me. So that's that image.

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The next image is a really interesting
sort of collage of different characters,

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plants and animals essentially, and they're
all cartoon like looking things. There's a

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there's a tree, there's looks like
a raccoon, there's a looks like a

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ram. There's flowers, there's sun
flowers. And the reason I picked at

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what called me about that particular image, I should say, is that again

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that speaks to a group of people
that are are a group of entities or

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beings that are all very different.
They all bring something different to the party,

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but they seem to be clearly at
the same party, which I would

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call the purpose party. So and
I like the fact that they all they

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all would come at this very very
differently, very they're not. This is

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not in unison. This is a
unique approach to being at this party,

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if you will. But they're all
united by being at the party. And

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then the next image appears to be
a red funnel. At the top of

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the image, there are a bunch
of disparate sorts of pieces coming into the

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funnel, and then out the bottom
is a singular line of pieces coming out

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the bottom. And that that calls
me because it strikes me that as as

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at inside organizations, what works really
well is when those individuals can come into

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organization, they already have their own
individual purpose identified or some semblance of it,

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they have some awareness of it.
Those are those individuals coming into the

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funnel, but they're aligning it with
the purpose of the organization and together,

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altogether, combined, there's this tremendous
force coming through that funnel, all that

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combined purpose that really speaks and it's
so unified and beautiful. And then another

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image here is three people standing apart
and with their arms at their sides,

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and there appears to be these beams
of energy or light connecting or spewing from

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each one connecting to the other.
That calls me because the idea of certainly

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of purpose unifying a group, but
there's that notion of something really big and

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expansive that's being transmitted from each individual
to the other individual parts that catalyzes something

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even bigger among them that then also
is threaded into the collective purpose that I

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think is very compelling. Three more
images. There is an image of what

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looks like a piece of threaded yarn. So at the bottom of the image

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you have these individual different colored threads
and they've all been braided together to create

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a singular thread. And that speaks
to me summarily and that you've got this

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beautiful diversity of individual beings coming together
and all their diversity and glory. But

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yet again they come together. They're
threaded together, they're connected, they're intertwined,

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they're interacting with each other. There's
an energy exchange there and together they

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create this very strong, tightly bound
thread or yarn that is that is the

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yarn coming up to the top.
Next image is two acrobatic dancers in mid

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air. Each of them are are
leaving their respective swing and reaching to certainly

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appears to catch the other. And
there's something about that, right, There's

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something about that, there's a leap
of faith in that, or there's there's

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a is that confidence that this will
happen, that we will catch each other.

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And there's something about collective purpose about
this notion that there is a confidence

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I've got you, I'm here for
you, We're in this together. That

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really speaks to me. And then
the last image is a series of arrows

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all pointing to the right direction.
The biggest one of the fire right is

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a big green arrow, and behind
it are a series of smaller arrows that

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feed into it. Again, the
idea being you have individual beings coming into

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an organization with their individual purpose.
They come together, they find a common

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stream of common aim, align it
with out of the organization, and thread

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it through and that's the big,
big, big target and big arrow that's

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pointing to the right perfect Thank you
for that, for that great description.

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I'm going to jump in and talk
about the same exercise I did with the

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same images. So we both started
with sixty three images and weed them down.

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I got them down to six.
And interestingly you and I share two

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images, okay, which is great, So I'll talk about those first.

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One of them is the arrow image
that you described last. And the only

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thing I would add to your description
is that the small arrows are very different.

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They're different styles, different they're even
different colors. So you talked extensively

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and a lot of your images were
about diversity, and that isn't really present

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that much in my collage, but
it is present there, so that's why

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I wanted to to point that out. And the other image that we have

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in common are the three people who
are connected by multiple lines. And again

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everything you said, I agree with
what you said about that image related to

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collective purpose. The only thing I
would add is that I really liked that

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image is one of the reasons I
really like that image is because there's only

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three peoples, but there's multiple lines, and I think that gets to the

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idea that it's not just a simple
connection between people, but it's multiple connections

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and multiple thoughts that are needed to
keep just three people together. There's only

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three people there, but there's a
lot of lines, so I liked that.

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What I also have is an image
of letters, three d letters of

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the alphabet, and they're flying around
and they're multi colored, and it just

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looks like a mess and a scrambled
sort of thing where there are no sort

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of words you can understand, but
there's letters, And that to me,

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talks to the opposite of purpose.
That talks to me of every single one

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of those letters is doing its own
thing and none of them are getting together,

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for example, to form a word. So that's the sort of negative

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space of not of what happens when
you don't have collective purpose. Another image

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I chose is a can of paint
seen from above, and it's blue paint

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or a light blue paint, and
there's white paint being mixed into it in

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a spiral. And what I like
about that is the way they're very much

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together, because it's quite intricate the
way these two are coming together, but

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they're still separate. So there're two
different things, still very identifiable, but

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they are amalgamating, and I think
that's that's interesting, the way they spiral

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together and get closer and closer.
Then there's a very there's a close up

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of an eye, a human eye. And the reason I like that is

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because a lot of collective purpose in
my experience, is based around observation.

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It's a base around learning from those
around you, learning from those you serve,

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and so you really, collective purpose
has to be about observation, has

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to be also about understanding the effects
that you that your actions have. So

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that was so that so I thought
that was an interesting aspect. And the

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last one is a crazy image of
a piggy bank jumping through the fire,

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okay, And I like that for
two reasons because that talks to me about

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the sort of left field craziness of
what collectives can do. You know,

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when human beings get together and they
have they have a common purpose, they

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can achieve the unexpected, and I
find that very powerful. And there's also

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the meaning of collective purpose that you
know, the things I do are for

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businesses and it's all about money in
the end, so yes, you need

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a purpose, but that purpose also
needs to be in some way monetized or

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in some way have a positive effect
on the business. So I liked the

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idea of the piggy bank being there
and saying, Yep, it's all good

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having a purpose, but you also
need to pay the bills. So I

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popped that in there. Okay,
this is beautiful. I want to talk

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more a bit more about this,
but we need to take a quick break

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here and let me acknowledge a question
from our listeners here, and they're asking,

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where do we see these images?
You don't see these images, listeners.

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We're going to talk more about how
we did this and why this is

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important and what we're learning from it. After the rake. I'm your host

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structor, Release Cortez. We've run
the air with Peter Comber. He is

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the author of the Forces of Collaborative
Creativity and the architect of the collaborative creativity

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methodology. He's also the founding partner
of Abstract, a company providing collaborative creativity

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services to the healthcare industry. We've
been going through a creativity exercise. After

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the rake, we're going to talk
more about what that means and what we

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can learn from it. Stay with
us, We'll be right back. Doctor

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Release Cortez is a management consultant specializing
in meaning and purpose, and inspirational speaker

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and author. She helps companies visioneer
for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose

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inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that
elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within

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the workforce. To learn more or
to invite a lease to speak to your

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organization, please visit her at Eleise
Cortez dot com. Let's talk about how

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to get your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with doctor

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Elise Cortez. To reach our program
today or open a conversation with Elise,

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send an email to Elise ali Se
at Elise Cortez dot com. Now back

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to working on purpose. Interesting with
us and welcome back to working on purpose.

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I'm excited to share with you of
that during the pandemic, I actually

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had a baby. It's called a
book, and this is it. It's

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called Purpose Ignited. How inspiring leader's
ignite passion and elevate cause. And I

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am convinced that absent the pandemic,
it wouldn't have showed up at least when

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it did, so I am thankful
for that I had the time to be

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able to work on it. And
I really wrote the book to transform readers

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into inspirational leaders who radically enliven the
workplace and elevate the contribution of business across

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as stakeholders. That's why I wrote
it. So it's really designed to help

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you turn onto your passion, inspiration
and purpose and then bring it if you're

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just joining the program. My guest
is Peter Comber. He is the author

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of the Forces of Collaborative Creativity and
the architect of the Collaborative Creativity methodology.

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I'm your host, doctor Eli's Hortez. So Peter, let's talk with a

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little bit about just debrief that exercise
so listeners understand just what was the value

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of it and what we can learn
from it and what they can gain from

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having heard us do it together.
Sure well, the value of it is

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the self awhen that you and I
both have now of our of our thoughts

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and even feelings towards the subject,
our chosen subject. The bigger value would

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in a I mean, this is
just an exercise, but in a real

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setting, the value would now come
from you and I and presumably a bigger

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group of people examining where we align, where we don't align, and what

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opportunities and what threats lie within that. So you and I think we I

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think our exercises turned out to be
refreshingly different but very aligned. I don't

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think we'd have a big disconnect about
you know, collective purpose and where we

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would go with our project from here. Okay, but quite often when we

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do this, there's a problem somewhere
and that's why we're doing it. And

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this kind of exercise helps. That
helps that group understand and acknowledge and therefore

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confront in a safe environment and in
a creative environment, their differences. Because

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if people aren't aligned about, you
know, what they think about something important,

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like, for example, purpose,
they're not going to deliver it properly.

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And that's bad for businesses. It
is. And one of the things

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that you say in the book,
and as you know, I read books

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that I have from my guest cover
to cover, one of the things that

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you send the book that was really
really lovely to me and sort of arresting,

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as you see that collaborative creativity uses
the creative act as a way to

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bridge the divide between conscious and unconscious
fascinating, And I guess you're just in

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the In the exchange that we had, I did get present to some things

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that maybe were lying under my surface, and when I had to see them,

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maybe they become king conscious. Yes, So the vast majority of our

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thoughts are not conscious thoughts. I'm
not a you know, scientist, neurologists

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or whatever. I only know enough
to be dangerous. But it's it's it's

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a fact that most of what we
think and and even our decisions, they're

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not things that are actually processed in
a conscious way. And creativity is a

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really good way for when the creativity
is set up to explore a certain area,

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it's a really good way for,
you know, lifting up the cover

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and seeing what's going on in those
unconscious processes. And one of the things

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that's really fascinating. You're a very
articulate person, and I think you were

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very comfortable with the subject I gave
you because it's your subject, right,

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But when you have people who are
working on something that they're not very comfortable

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with when they present, they're not
as fluent as you were. They're not

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as easy with their explanations and you
can you can see them grasping for meaning.

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You can see them asking themselves why
did I choose this image? And

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that search, you know, they
always come to some kind of reconciliation and

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that search is enlightening for the person. It's like why did I choose that

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image? And then they kind of
figure it out and then they start talking

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very quickly instead of you know,
haltingly and you know, puzzlingly. Once

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they latch onto it, they oh, yeah, this is and those are

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the breakthroughs and those are the interesting
things. So speaking of that, one

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of the things that I got from
reading your book, Peter, which it

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was very eliminating for me. Creativity
is a very interesting space for me,

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and I feel like as as I
get older, I cultivate it more and

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I feel like I can be proud
of my creativity and I love it.

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But what you just said there speaks
to the first thing, the first point

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here. You talk about five collaborative
forces of collaborative creativity. Just quickly you

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talk about one is self discovery,
so understanding yourself realizing, well, why

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did I pick? Number two is
empathy understanding others very very interesting through realization,

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which is personal satisfaction and for invention
new ideas obviously in five cohesion,

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collective purpose. So I wanted to
spring that up just quickly for our listeners

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and viewers that so we can start
to recognize what's under all of this creative

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creative collaboration that you created for us. And so before we go onto the

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next thing, I wanted to dig
down deep or anything that you want to

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see about those real quick before me
we are yes. I would just like

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to say that most people confuse creativity
and innovation. They say we need some

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creative encouraged. Yes, we need
some creativity, and what they actually mean

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is we need a widget, we
need a solution, okay, And I

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think we need to take a step
back and we need to recognize that creativity

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is a process. It's a means
to an end, all right. So

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the creative process can lead to innovation
and change, okay. And you know

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the force that I recognize that gets
you there is invention, all right.

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Invention is coming up with new stuff, and in the right conditions, inventions

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become innovation and change. All right. But that's not the only end you

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can have from creativity. Creativity can
also be the other things you mentioned,

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especially self discovery especially. I think
the most important one though, is cohesion,

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because this is collaborative creativity after all, So cutting to the chase,

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all the other things are extremely important. But if you can use creativity to

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get people to have co authorship of
something and a true sense that they're doing

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something together that has meaning because they
made it together. And I would just

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like to underline the fact that co
authorship doesn't mean you have to invent the

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whole thing. You know, co
authorship can be in this big picture.

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I created that bit. Okay,
that's very important. We're talking. We

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imagine a mosaic where everybody puts their
own little tile in, you know.

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That's the kind of thing. And
I think that transforms the way businesses deliver.

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Businesses that have one person, one
genius who comes up with with with

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the with the big idea, and
everybody else is a drone who executes it,

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they're only as good as the control
they have on their drones. Whereas

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businesses who have a group who create
things and deliver it and produce it and

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know why they're they're turning up to
work every day. That's a completely different

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organization. The way the way it
works and the way it's resilient. M

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how beautiful. Well, and speaking
about one of the things that you say

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in your book is you say that, well, first, creativity begins with

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a dissatisfaction with something, which provokes
a desire to change it, and this

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leads to ideas about how to make
the chance, make the choice, and

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finally action that creates the change.
So what I was struck by is the

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notion of it starts with dissatisfaction with
something. I thought that was really interesting.

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Yes, So what that's getting at
is companies tend to be dissatisfied with

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something because it's not performing the way
it should. But what you should really

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look for is what's the dissatisfaction of
the people who have to use that thing.

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So, if it's a product,
what are your customers dissatisfaction? If

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it's an internal organization issue, what
is the thing in the company that isn't

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working? And you really need to
find out what the problem is. I

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think a lot of companies are solution
oriented. Some somewhere says we need a

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new something, so a new widget, okay, and they think that's going

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to be the solution to everything.
But if you describe the solution you're limiting

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your options for innovation. Whereas if
you identify the problem and the real problem,

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and by real problem I mean the
problem, the elephant in the room,

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especially within companies. You know,
once you've identified the real problem,

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that's when when true solutions start presenting
themselves, long term solutions. Well,

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then you take it a step further
Peter, which I thought was very intriguing,

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is then you go on to say
it helps to see a problem from

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someone else's perspective for creativity, so
we're really employing empathy here we're listening.

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That was really really interesting. Say
a little bit more about that. Why

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is that so important? Well,
in business, you're in there, you're

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in applied creativity. So the distinction
we need to make is that an artists,

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you know, musician, whoever,
if they're making the music for them

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and it's it's their self expression,
that's fine. But if you are in

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a business and you're creating something for
people, if you don't completely understand what

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those people want, and quite often
that involves understanding helping those people understand what

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they want. As I've said earlier, you know the whole college thing,

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you know, self discovery. There's
people tend to be quite sort of simple

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and incremental in there. If you
ask them a straight, straight question like

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what would you like from a new
car, they're going to give you a

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very incremental kind of description of what
they want. All right, But if

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you look at what this dissatisfies them
about cars, you might come up with

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a transport system that isn't a car. Because if I say, the thing

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that annoys me the most about my
car is having to park it, then

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the whole idea of a car suddenly
is a problem. Whereas if you ask

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somebody how could I improve your car, you know they're going to come up

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with you know, I want more
seats, I want more windows, more

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horsepower. So I think you really
need to get I mean, empathy is

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understanding people's problems. HM. That's
beautiful. And again I think this really

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helps give our listeners and our viewers. If you will, we'll stay with

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the car anology, getting under the
hood of creativity where how does it happen

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and where does it come from?
And how does it work? And furthermore,

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you speak also you say that the
aim of collective creativity is to make

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possible to talk, make it possible
to talk about rolemant emotions, beliefs,

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and experiences, And that is such
an unobvious notion for me that you would

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actually do, would you would provoke
creativity and collaboration around discussion around those things.

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Well, my company specializes in healthcare, okay, And healthcare is I

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mean, business in general is quite
rational, you know, it tries to

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be you know, rational and as
non emotional as is viable, you know,

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and healthcare is the extreme example of
that, Okay, And it doesn't

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really work because people are not rational. They are incredibly emotional, and they

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become even more so when confronting health
issues. Sometimes even professionals. You know,

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I've done I've done lots and lots
of these things with physicians, and

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you know, I've had quite a
few of them cry because you know,

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once you get them into the situation
where they're not, you know, behind

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that mask of professionalism and distancing themselves
from everything, and you really get them

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talking about the issues and what it's
like to make certain decisions and what it's

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like to you know, to deal
with certain situations. And when you talk

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to patients or care givers. You
know, we work with with caregivers of

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people who who are very very sick, and there's a lot of emotion there.

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And if you go in with a
list of questions very rationally, and

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you say something stupid like do you
care about your loved one the person you're

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looking after? The answer is yes, obviously. But if you go in

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and you do something creative, you
can start to understand the contrasting emotions and

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the richness of that experience and that
situation. And when we talk about collaborative

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creativity and working in groups, we're
also talking about getting doctors and patients and

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caregivers in a dialogue, because there
is a lot lots of missed opportunities and

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misunderstandings when when when they talk.
You know, doctors sometimes don't understand what

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patients are saying, and sometimes patients
don't understand what doctors are saying. And

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the root of it isn't just you
know, language, it isn't just the

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sentences being put together. It's it's
it's conceptual and it's also emotional. You

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00:31:26.519 --> 00:31:29.880
know, you're saying something I don't
want to hear, basically, right,

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I can. I can see though, how this opens such a richness of

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vein if you will, of of
of a way of seeing something a way

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of reaching for and connecting for something. I can see that. Now,

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do we have time for a little
anecdote? You know we do. Can

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we get it out of the break? Yes? Can you hold it at

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the break? Okay, all right, let's grab our next break. Your

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Emily's Cortez your host. We're in
the era with Peter Comber. He is

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the author of the Forces of Collaborative
Creativity in the architect of the Collaborative Creativity

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00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:05.200
methodology. Is also the founding partner
oft at Strat, a company providing clip

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collaborative creativity services to the healthcare industry. We've been talking about really how to

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use collaborative creativity as a useful concept. After the right will continue the conversation.

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Stay with us, We'll be right
back. Doctor Release Cortez as a

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management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose
and inspirational speaker and author. She helps

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00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:31.119
companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders
and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused

399
00:32:31.160 --> 00:32:37.400
cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,
and commitment within the workforce. To learn

400
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:42.440
more or to invite a lease to
speak to your organization, please visit her

401
00:32:42.519 --> 00:32:45.519
at a Lease Cortez dot com.
Let's talk about how to get your employees

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00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:58.279
working on purpose. This is working
on Purpose with doctor Release Cortez. To

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00:32:58.319 --> 00:33:01.640
reach our program today or open a
conversation with Elise, send an email to

404
00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:09.200
Elise Alis at Elise Cortez dot com. Now back to working on purpose.

405
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:19.799
Thanks for staying with us, and
welcome back to working on purpose. Another

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00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:22.599
announcement for you is that we've launched
the Gusto now platform. It's an e

407
00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:28.599
learning platform designed to deliver the vinely
inspired in other courses that I've created sometime

408
00:33:28.599 --> 00:33:30.279
ago, and we do it in
English, Spanish and Portuguese. How it

409
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:34.079
happened was as we were going through
a pandemic, as I wanted to figure

410
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:36.920
out what else can I do that
I haven't been able to do lately,

411
00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:39.119
and that was the whole language thing. So Spanish Portuguese are really my favorite

412
00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:43.880
languages. So I we do all
three languages on a platform, and I

413
00:33:43.920 --> 00:33:46.319
do offer a twenty percent discount to
listeners, so thanks for listening in you

414
00:33:46.440 --> 00:33:52.640
use the code WOP twenty at checkout
to redeem it. See one class here

415
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:54.880
just joining us. My guest is
Peter Comberg. He is the author of

416
00:33:54.880 --> 00:34:00.839
the forces of collaborative creativity and the
architective collaborative creativity methodology. I'm your host,

417
00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:04.519
doctor Eli's Cortez and Peter. Just
before the break. You're queuing us

418
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:07.480
up for an ancdote about what we
were talking about, so please share it.

419
00:34:08.119 --> 00:34:15.000
Yeah, so this is a job
we did quite a while ago.

420
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:20.519
So I can't go into details because
we signed NDA's and they're pretty ferocious,

421
00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:27.599
but I'll give you the top I'll
give you the top line. We got

422
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:34.119
a bunch of very highly specialists,
okay, specialists in a in a condition

423
00:34:35.239 --> 00:34:38.239
for which there was no cure,
and then there was a cure. Somebody

424
00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:43.199
invented a cure, and all of
a sudden, these doctors could literally take

425
00:34:43.239 --> 00:34:47.360
away the cause of the illness of
these people. And so for a while

426
00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:52.119
they had a monopoly. They were
the only people with with that with that

427
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:59.960
cure, and the client hired us
because twelve months in twelve months time,

428
00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:02.599
they're going to lose the monopoly and
other people are going to be coming up

429
00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:07.360
with the cure, and so they
wanted to feel the pulse of specialists and

430
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:15.480
you know, feel how how they
were anticipating the new products coming in and

431
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:22.400
one of the exercises we did,
so every every workshop we do, we

432
00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:25.519
do multiple exercises. But one of
the exercises we did was a time travel

433
00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:30.920
exercise where we took all these specialists, we put them in small groups and

434
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:35.519
we said, you know, you
need to go off and five years ago,

435
00:35:35.719 --> 00:35:38.079
and you need to go to a
conference, and you need to tell

436
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:42.679
your colleagues from the past what the
futures like. You need to tell them

437
00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:45.559
everything they need to know about now, and you can choose five things,

438
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:51.840
all right, And so each of
the groups presented their speech, and there

439
00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:55.079
were I think five groups, and
at the end of the presentation of the

440
00:35:55.159 --> 00:36:00.599
last group, I asked them why
none of them had told their colleagues in

441
00:36:00.599 --> 00:36:06.159
the past that there was a cure, And every single one of them just

442
00:36:06.199 --> 00:36:08.880
sort of their jaw dropped and they
were like, how could we have done

443
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:16.039
that? And the following conversation was
you know, self discovery embodied, and

444
00:36:16.119 --> 00:36:21.800
it was all about the fact that
the cure did you know, cure the

445
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:29.760
cure the problem, but it didn't
cure the existing damage done by the disease.

446
00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:34.679
So they were still people who they
had cured, they were still seeing

447
00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:37.920
them and they were still, you
know, they had issues, and so

448
00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:45.800
that completely reset our client's expectations and
their and you know, it created empathy

449
00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:49.920
because the client instead of saying,
oh, we're great, we invented the

450
00:36:49.960 --> 00:36:54.880
cure, now they were Okay,
we get it. These people understand,

451
00:36:55.239 --> 00:36:58.559
you know, intellectually. If we
asked them if there's a cure, they

452
00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:00.960
say, yeah, of course there's
a cure. I've been using it for

453
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:06.800
two years. But what that means
for their practice isn't the kind of thing

454
00:37:06.880 --> 00:37:10.519
we intended or we understand to be
cure. And that goes back to the

455
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:15.079
whole thing about words. You know, if I say to you, cure,

456
00:37:15.559 --> 00:37:20.119
it triggers something in your brain.
But to the person who said,

457
00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:24.760
yes, there's a cure, it's
something very different. Well that gets to

458
00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:27.800
the next question that I wanted to
get to, and you and I spoke

459
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:30.679
about this on our first conversation as
we're planning to have you come on air,

460
00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:35.440
and that was this whole limitation of
language, which is really interesting being

461
00:37:35.440 --> 00:37:37.400
someone here I just was talking about
I love being a linguist and I love

462
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:40.360
speaking to per foreign languages. And
now we talk about the actual limitations to

463
00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:44.280
it and what you say in the
book is very interesting. You see,

464
00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:47.400
wile language seems to be controlled at
a very conscious and rational level on our

465
00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:52.320
brains, creative thinking occurs in deeper
and more ancient areas of the brain.

466
00:37:52.519 --> 00:37:57.639
Very interesting. The ideas you have
revealed something about you. Creative thought as

467
00:37:58.280 --> 00:38:02.119
accesses deeper areas of our minds than
those concerned with logic and language. So

468
00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:07.599
it's manifestations can show you unexpected,
unconscious beliefs, emotions, and internal contradictions.

469
00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:15.880
Fascinating, Peter, seeing more about
that. Yes, so we are

470
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:23.920
self deceiving being animals being, Yes, we deceive others, but we're also

471
00:38:23.960 --> 00:38:34.320
pretty good at deceiving ourselves and creativity
when people are when people talk, they're

472
00:38:34.400 --> 00:38:39.039
very good at keeping those deceptions alive. When they create, they stumble a

473
00:38:39.079 --> 00:38:45.199
bit. And I think it's because
we are used to projecting an image with

474
00:38:45.880 --> 00:38:49.760
you know, our words and the
way we dress, but we're not.

475
00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:54.400
We're not used because people don't do
creativity usually. I mean, we're all

476
00:38:54.519 --> 00:39:00.400
sort of normal. Most people are
quite stifled in their creativity, okay,

477
00:39:00.760 --> 00:39:02.960
and because it's something they're not used
to, I don't think they could they

478
00:39:04.519 --> 00:39:07.400
can do it in an artificial way. They do it in a very authentic

479
00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:12.079
way, and that means, you
know, the truth is out when they

480
00:39:12.119 --> 00:39:19.559
do it. And I think the
whole thing about words is even worse because

481
00:39:19.599 --> 00:39:28.400
even if I don't want to be
ambiguous, if you and I don't share

482
00:39:28.480 --> 00:39:32.920
the exact same definition of a word
or a term or a concept, we

483
00:39:34.039 --> 00:39:37.400
can agree on something, but that
have two completely different ideas. And I'll

484
00:39:37.400 --> 00:39:42.960
give you a little example. If
you go to pretty much any meeting in

485
00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:45.599
any company and you say, oh, we need to be more transparent,

486
00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:51.000
pretty much everybody says yes because it
sounds like a good idea. It sounds

487
00:39:51.039 --> 00:39:53.559
like a good value, doesn't it. You know, if we're talking about

488
00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:59.519
you know, collective purpose, let's
all be more transparent. Yes, great

489
00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:04.920
idea, But what does that actually
mean? Your idea of transparency, my

490
00:40:05.039 --> 00:40:09.079
idea of transparency, the finance this, but the apartment's idea of transparency.

491
00:40:09.320 --> 00:40:15.039
You know, that's where it all
gets really interesting. And that's where creativity

492
00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:22.199
can help people. Because adults are
not good at sitting in a room and

493
00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:25.760
saying I don't understand what your view
of transparency is. They're not very good

494
00:40:25.760 --> 00:40:30.559
at that. Kids are good at
it. Kids are great at saying I

495
00:40:30.599 --> 00:40:32.639
don't get that, But the older
you get, you don't want to look

496
00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:37.719
stupid because somebody just said we need
more transparency and you can't stand up and

497
00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:43.519
say, what do you mean?
You look stupid? Right? I get

498
00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:46.960
that. I make that makes complete
sense. So creativity is a great way

499
00:40:46.960 --> 00:40:52.559
to get people to look minutely at
things that might be taken for granted.

500
00:40:54.280 --> 00:41:00.519
And those things which are taken for
granted are the source of discord within anization.

501
00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:04.480
So it's like we're all rallying around
this thing, but actually everybody's rallying

502
00:41:04.519 --> 00:41:09.119
around their own version of it.
M interesting, Well, what are the

503
00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:13.519
speaking of the whole idea of creativity
and an organization. One of the things

504
00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:16.599
I also really appreciated about your book
and the message, and it certainly aligns

505
00:41:16.639 --> 00:41:21.719
with what I would do as somebody
who empowers people, is I like how

506
00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:24.920
you encourage telling people inside ranizations that
they are creative and that you believe that

507
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:29.760
they're the right choice to tackle certain
problems. It just seems to me,

508
00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:32.880
again from the empowering position, but
also it just engenders a creative culture,

509
00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:39.840
it encourages it. It seems yes, definitely, I think companies need to

510
00:41:40.159 --> 00:41:50.599
have more creative space and co creative
space, because individual creative space is great

511
00:41:50.679 --> 00:41:58.800
and it's very gratifying and it's rewarding, but it's not necessarily contributing to the

512
00:41:58.840 --> 00:42:05.519
business. It's it's more focused on
the individual. So yes, I do

513
00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:09.400
think there needs to be more creativity, and I think that creativity has to

514
00:42:09.440 --> 00:42:21.559
be focused on on getting getting focused
on empathy, and focused on on on

515
00:42:21.679 --> 00:42:27.239
getting people aligned on cohesion. Those
are the two keys, and I think

516
00:42:27.239 --> 00:42:31.800
we're going to see a need more
and more because if you look at,

517
00:42:32.480 --> 00:42:35.840
you know, the whole work from
home thing. I mean, this year

518
00:42:35.840 --> 00:42:42.960
has been crazy, and you see
a lot of talk about how the sort

519
00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:47.559
of the casual encounter, the serendipity, the sort of the coffee machine idea

520
00:42:47.719 --> 00:42:55.920
and discussion disappears with work from home. I think the idea of people sort

521
00:42:55.920 --> 00:43:00.639
of understanding each other around a coffee
machine is not good business practice. Even

522
00:43:00.679 --> 00:43:04.159
if you are in an office,
I think you should try and make it

523
00:43:04.199 --> 00:43:07.519
a bit more robust than that.
But if people are working from home,

524
00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:14.360
the idea of of of having creative
moments when people can align and confront in

525
00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:20.639
a safe way is very important.
M well, and you do. You

526
00:43:20.679 --> 00:43:23.480
do talk about how creativity affects human
relationships, and you've already said before,

527
00:43:23.559 --> 00:43:28.400
you know, something profound happens to
people who share and develop ideas together.

528
00:43:29.320 --> 00:43:31.320
But there's you also talk about there
being a transfer of energy and a kind

529
00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:36.400
of intellectual intimacy, and you know, and so of course being somebody who's

530
00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:38.599
a meaning and work researcher, and
I care about the experience, about elevating

531
00:43:38.599 --> 00:43:43.320
the experience of work for people so
that it can be something that's more fulfilling

532
00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:52.000
for them, that is incredibly alluring. Yes, I mean if when when

533
00:43:52.039 --> 00:43:55.559
a group starts kicking around an idea, it's very unusual for that idea to

534
00:43:55.599 --> 00:44:02.079
be immediately in three seconds perfect,
Okay. Somebody usually says something that sparks

535
00:44:02.119 --> 00:44:07.440
a conversation, and during the course
of that conversation, different people add different

536
00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:10.800
bits to it, change it,
subvert it, and what you end up

537
00:44:10.840 --> 00:44:17.559
at the end of the day,
literally eight hours later, is unrecognizable from

538
00:44:17.559 --> 00:44:22.800
the first spark that got that thing
going. But all the energy and all

539
00:44:22.840 --> 00:44:30.559
the transfer of of you know,
intellectual creativity and just sort of transfer,

540
00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:39.280
all that stuff adds up into a
very strong human experiences it should beats a

541
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:43.760
meeting, you know, you know, you know how when you walk out

542
00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:45.800
of a meeting and it's like,
oh god, that was boring? How

543
00:44:45.800 --> 00:44:50.159
many how many slides did we see? And what was the discussion about later?

544
00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:52.960
I mean, it was deadly.
You know. It's not conducive to

545
00:44:53.760 --> 00:45:01.480
and it's not conducive to getting people
excited, whereas creative and building an idea

546
00:45:01.519 --> 00:45:08.679
together is exciting. It certainly is. Well. You and I have come

547
00:45:08.719 --> 00:45:13.559
together and both of us have produced
a book in this pandemic and so and

548
00:45:13.559 --> 00:45:16.880
you've already started to talk about the
changing workplace because of the pandemic. I

549
00:45:16.880 --> 00:45:20.719
think it really makes a lot of
sense for you, especially as a man

550
00:45:20.719 --> 00:45:23.519
of creativity and collaboration, to share. I'd like to hear some of the

551
00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:29.960
chief learnings that you see business taking
from the corner virus pandemic. Wow.

552
00:45:32.360 --> 00:45:37.159
I think one of the key learnings
will be that we need to talk more

553
00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:43.719
about emotions. I think I think
there needs to be a more structured,

554
00:45:43.880 --> 00:45:52.039
safe way of talking about emotions in
the workplace. And I also think that

555
00:45:52.360 --> 00:45:59.440
it fits into the idea of diversity
because one of the interesting things about creativity,

556
00:45:59.480 --> 00:46:04.199
and this is proven this is,
you know, not anecdotal experiments prove

557
00:46:04.280 --> 00:46:12.000
it. Diverse groups that do creativity
together have far stronger ideas, Stronger it

558
00:46:12.000 --> 00:46:17.440
means, more appropriate, more robust
everything. Whereas the more people are alike

559
00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:24.719
who come together and have an idea, the more that idea is one sided,

560
00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:30.280
and quite often it's a weak idea. I mean, people just sort

561
00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:31.719
of agree with each other. It's
like, oh yeah, that's great,

562
00:46:31.719 --> 00:46:36.320
oh completely. You know, you
need a bit of friction, and you

563
00:46:36.360 --> 00:46:42.000
need a bit of push and pull
with diverse ideas and diverse people with diverse

564
00:46:42.039 --> 00:46:49.159
experiences to get to somewhere really universally
interesting. And so yeah, I think

565
00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:54.239
businesses need to figure out thanks to
you know, collaborative creativity, but also

566
00:46:54.360 --> 00:47:00.280
other other ways of working. They
need to figure out how to encore great

567
00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:05.199
emotions into business in an appropriate way. And they also need to wake up

568
00:47:05.199 --> 00:47:09.400
to the fact that diversity is an
asset and and it becomes crystal clear when

569
00:47:09.400 --> 00:47:14.719
you do creativity. M h.
You know, we've been talking about diversity

570
00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:16.760
for so long. Do you really
think that they were just finally sort of

571
00:47:16.760 --> 00:47:22.000
now getting it. It's taken us
how many decades? Wow? I mean

572
00:47:22.119 --> 00:47:31.159
yes, I mean that I mean
my personal experience. I grew up in

573
00:47:30.800 --> 00:47:37.159
in Britain and in the you know, I went to school in seventies and

574
00:47:37.280 --> 00:47:43.239
eighties, and you know, our
class was, you know, our classes

575
00:47:43.280 --> 00:47:46.880
were very different. There were lots
of different types of people in terms of

576
00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:51.079
you know, beliefs and all the
rest of it. And then I moved

577
00:47:51.079 --> 00:47:54.320
to Italy and Italy was very different. Italy was very much mono culture.

578
00:47:54.719 --> 00:48:02.079
Okay, and that's changed, you
know, it's is now multicultural, but

579
00:48:02.199 --> 00:48:08.199
the difference was shocking. The difference
was really strange. And I still have

580
00:48:08.480 --> 00:48:14.079
that kind of feeling when I go
into lots of businesses, when you go

581
00:48:14.119 --> 00:48:19.599
into lots of big corporate headquarters and
you look around, it's like these people

582
00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:24.920
are pretty much all the same.
Just quickly, I want to grab that

583
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:29.559
notion of you that you are in
in Italy for the last what thirty some

584
00:48:29.719 --> 00:48:31.519
thirty six years I think it was, and you and I spoke before that.

585
00:48:31.559 --> 00:48:35.440
There's something about using language in a
different way, right, So when

586
00:48:35.440 --> 00:48:37.079
you come into a different culture,
you have a different language, You see

587
00:48:37.079 --> 00:48:40.719
the world differently, you describe the
world differently, and that I feel like,

588
00:48:40.760 --> 00:48:45.119
having lived in Spain and Brazil,
really did help me access creativity in

589
00:48:45.159 --> 00:48:47.719
a different way because I had to
use language in a different way. I

590
00:48:47.719 --> 00:48:51.679
could see the world differently because of
the way that I described it in that

591
00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:54.000
culture, and I just think that's
interesting. We're getting close to the end

592
00:48:54.039 --> 00:48:58.440
of the show here, so just
for fun and grinds and giggles, tell

593
00:48:58.519 --> 00:49:01.000
us in Italian what you had for
dinner? Please? What did I have

594
00:49:01.119 --> 00:49:05.559
for dinner? I had? Oh
my god, that was a while ago.

595
00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:09.599
Oh yes, I had. I
can't say an Italian because I had

596
00:49:09.679 --> 00:49:15.519
falafel, which is Arabic. Okay, okay, well never mind. Then

597
00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:19.000
come on, I'll lie, I'll
lie, and I'll say what I had,

598
00:49:19.039 --> 00:49:24.800
what I had the other day,
which is lasagne did Okay, Well,

599
00:49:24.800 --> 00:49:28.079
we've come to the end of the
show already, Peter. You know

600
00:49:28.119 --> 00:49:30.480
this shows listen to across the world, and it's all designed helping will create

601
00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:36.000
more meaningful workplaces and create inspirational leaders. What was like leader listeners worth saying

602
00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:42.800
about twenty seconds. In twenty seconds, I would invite everybody to experiment with

603
00:49:42.880 --> 00:49:50.039
creativity in groups in their office.
Give yourselves a task, give yourselves multiple

604
00:49:50.159 --> 00:49:55.880
exercises, and make sure everybody joins
in beautiful way to finish. Peter,

605
00:49:55.960 --> 00:50:00.400
thank you so much for coming into
my sphere. It is delightful to know

606
00:50:00.519 --> 00:50:02.599
you and be on this path with
you, and thank you for sharing your

607
00:50:02.599 --> 00:50:06.599
wisdom, your creativity and your spirit. Thank you so much. Well,

608
00:50:06.599 --> 00:50:09.559
thank you so much for inviting me
and I always enjoy talking with you.

609
00:50:09.840 --> 00:50:14.400
Thank you very much. Likewise,
listeners and viewers, we want to learn

610
00:50:14.440 --> 00:50:16.920
more about Peter Comber or his book
The Forces of Collaborative Creativity, or the

611
00:50:16.920 --> 00:50:21.599
work Keenest Team do at Abstract,
visit him. There's a couple of places

612
00:50:21.599 --> 00:50:23.960
you can go to. Sorry,
Peter, is it astrat A S T

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00:50:24.239 --> 00:50:31.159
R A T yes at st rit
dot com. Okay at strat okay.

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00:50:31.400 --> 00:50:36.119
And then the other Your personal website
is Peter dash Coomber c O M B

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00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:39.119
E R dot net. Correct,
So visit those two places. How a

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00:50:39.199 --> 00:50:42.960
look. Last week you missed the
live show, you can always catch me

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00:50:43.039 --> 00:50:45.440
a recorded podcast. We were on
there with Tim Spiker talking about his book

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00:50:45.559 --> 00:50:50.840
The Only Leader's Worth. Following we
talked about how two of the eight eight

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00:50:50.920 --> 00:50:54.440
characteristics that make effective leaders account for
sixty seven percent of their effectiveness, and

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they boiled down to personal development.
And self understanding. Next week, we'll

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00:50:59.199 --> 00:51:01.079
be on Well the kick off a
new year and six years of programming with

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00:51:01.119 --> 00:51:05.519
Michael Levy, who's the CEO of
Work Proud, talking about the importance of

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00:51:05.559 --> 00:51:07.599
people being proud of their work and
how this contribute to the bottom line results

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00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:10.159
for the company. See you there, Remember that works at least of their

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00:51:10.280 --> 00:51:20.599
life. So let's work on purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this week's program.

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00:51:20.679 --> 00:51:23.880
Be sure to tune into Working on
Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise

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00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:30.519
Cortez, each week on the Voice
America Empowerment Channel. Together, we'll create

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00:51:30.519 --> 00:51:37.760
a world where business operates conscientiously,
leadership inspires impassioned performance, and employees are

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fulfilled in work that provides the meaning
and purpose they crave. See you there,

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00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:44.440
Let's work on Purpose.