Moving the Gender Conversation Forward to Improve Work Life for Men and Women

WEBVTT

1
00:00:06.599 --> 00:00:10.519
There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

2
00:00:11.119 --> 00:00:14.599
and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

3
00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:19.960
Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortez. In our program,

4
00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:24.160
we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

5
00:00:24.280 --> 00:00:29.600
personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working

6
00:00:29.719 --> 00:00:35.640
on purpose. Now here is your
host, Elise Cortez. Welcome back to

7
00:00:35.640 --> 00:00:38.119
Working on Purpose. Thanks for tuning
it again this week. Great to have

8
00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:41.159
you. I'm your host, Elise
Cortez, joining you this week from Chicago.

9
00:00:41.600 --> 00:00:44.719
I'm here doing a break your project
for a client. This program is

10
00:00:44.719 --> 00:00:48.679
all about helping people more meaningfully and
productively connect with their work and equipping organization

11
00:00:48.679 --> 00:00:52.119
to do the same for their employees. It was originally inspired by the meaning

12
00:00:52.119 --> 00:00:55.640
and work research up and doing in
the last fifteen years and now compliments the

13
00:00:55.640 --> 00:00:58.920
work that I do. It Insignium, a global management consulting firm. Let

14
00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:00.200
me get to the program and just
the second, but first, a thank

15
00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:03.599
you to jobbing dot com. They
are my media partner and sponsor. They

16
00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:07.359
are the leading locally focused joboard in
the nation and are dedicated to helping employers

17
00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:11.159
find quality talent in their own backyard
while getting job seekers control over the search

18
00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:15.840
so they can find work close to
home. Great partnership. Last week,

19
00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:19.079
we were on the air with Mary
Shores, who was a successful entrepreneur,

20
00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:25.000
author, and revolutionary founder of the
groundbreaking Conscious Communications system, which produces positive

21
00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:30.120
results through positive action. We talked
about the neuroscience behind conscious communication, her

22
00:01:30.120 --> 00:01:33.079
perspective on how we can all find
our unique talents and put them to work,

23
00:01:33.359 --> 00:01:36.879
and now she's found her own purpose
in changing the debt collection business.

24
00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:40.760
She's in from guilt and shame to
empowering people to be debt free. Great

25
00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:46.079
inspiring conversation with us this week is
Jamie Bame Hanson, who is a writer,

26
00:01:46.280 --> 00:01:49.680
speaker, investor, and thought leader
on women and business. With a

27
00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:53.000
degree in the Mathematical method of Social
Sciences from Northwestern She spent her early career

28
00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:57.200
with an economics consulting firm in Washington, DC. She made a career switch

29
00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:01.159
after earning her MBA at Duke Universe
and spent the next ten plus years as

30
00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:06.120
a business executive in the tech industry, working for companies like Yahoo, Fox,

31
00:02:06.359 --> 00:02:09.879
and Cornerstone on Demand She is the
author of Expanding the conversation because real

32
00:02:09.960 --> 00:02:15.120
leaders leverage gender differences to create a
competitive advantage in business. Today, we'll

33
00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:19.000
be talking about how men and women's
characteristics are perceived in the workplace, how

34
00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:22.759
the workplace can be improved using a
different lens on gender, and how Jamie

35
00:02:22.759 --> 00:02:25.080
thinks the gender conversation needs to continue
in the future. She joins us to

36
00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:30.400
day from Los Angeles. Jamie,
welcome to Working on Purpose. Thank you.

37
00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:32.120
I'm so happy to be here.
Me too. I've been really looking

38
00:02:32.120 --> 00:02:36.520
forward to this conversation and I got
up in my hotel room this morning but

39
00:02:36.680 --> 00:02:39.520
thinking about it and just really looking
forward to it. So to give us

40
00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:44.240
a little context before we get started
into the actual conversation about gender, will

41
00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:46.080
you first sketch for us your professional
background. I mean, I gave a

42
00:02:46.080 --> 00:02:50.599
bit I've been goo on kind of
what you've done. But help us get

43
00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:53.919
a picture of how you started to
form some of the ideas that you had

44
00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:57.800
via your experience. Yeah, so, I mean, as you mentioned,

45
00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:01.479
I started my career as an economist
and then switched over to the technology sector

46
00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:06.479
in business school, and then you
know, through my roles, through my

47
00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:09.439
roles at Yahoo and Fox and Corner
shown on demand. I sort of found

48
00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:15.520
that I was pretty good at business
development and building relationships and partnerships, and

49
00:03:15.560 --> 00:03:21.800
I had sort of great opportunities to
work with different people across different countries and

50
00:03:21.919 --> 00:03:27.479
see, you know, a variety
of different leadership styles and teams, which

51
00:03:27.560 --> 00:03:30.039
was all awesome and and after a
while, I guess, I guess,

52
00:03:30.039 --> 00:03:35.080
really, I decided to take a
pause and write the book for the main

53
00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:38.280
reason being that, you know,
I've worked predominantly in male dominated industries,

54
00:03:38.719 --> 00:03:42.159
which I've never had a problem with, but it has definitely given me the

55
00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:47.800
opportunity to see general differences between men's
and women's leadership staff and I love at

56
00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:52.400
you know, the whole women in
business conversation has really heated up in the

57
00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:54.879
media, especially in the last few
years, because I definitely think it needs

58
00:03:54.879 --> 00:03:59.639
more attention. But lately, I
do feel like the rhetoric had become very

59
00:04:00.400 --> 00:04:04.879
angry and defensive and sort of one
sided. And you know, because of

60
00:04:04.919 --> 00:04:08.639
all that, I think it's really
some of the things are falling on death

61
00:04:08.680 --> 00:04:12.599
ears, and you know, very
little has changed as a consequence. So

62
00:04:12.759 --> 00:04:16.800
I really wanted to write the book
to I mean literally expand the conversation and

63
00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:21.800
start just a more honest, open
dialogue with a broader audience. Gorgeous.

64
00:04:21.959 --> 00:04:26.439
Great way to situate for us,
Jamie. So you know what's really interesting

65
00:04:26.439 --> 00:04:30.519
when you think about this, I
mean, you have obviously a what I

66
00:04:30.519 --> 00:04:32.839
would call what we would call on
my firm, are listening for gender in

67
00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:35.759
the workplace because of your experience.
In other words, your ear is attuned

68
00:04:35.759 --> 00:04:40.680
to it. You have a distinction
for being able to discern something specific about

69
00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:43.160
what you're observing, and thus,
of course you have enough materrigal to write

70
00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:46.720
a book about it. So let
us into your world a little bit,

71
00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:48.600
will you, Jamie? Help us
understand what have you been observing in the

72
00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:54.160
workplace in terms of how men's and
women's different characteristics are perceived and valued.

73
00:04:56.600 --> 00:05:00.199
Yeah. I love that you said
perceived and valued, because I actually really

74
00:05:00.240 --> 00:05:03.959
do think they're so closely related.
And perception is tricky, right, because

75
00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:10.439
by the very nature of perception,
you're applying your own thoughts and experiences and

76
00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:15.519
biases realistically to whatever you're seeing or
experiencing. So the first thing that I

77
00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:18.839
would say with regards to men and
women in the workplace is that I've noticed

78
00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:25.360
that so often the very same characteristic
that exists in both and a variety of

79
00:05:25.360 --> 00:05:30.319
people can be perceived differently across the
genders. So I'll give you a couple

80
00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:33.360
examples. When people are talking a
lot in meetings, right, if it's

81
00:05:33.360 --> 00:05:38.680
a man, he's often viewed as
authoritative and knowledgeable, but a woman talking

82
00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:42.959
a lot in a meeting is often
perceived as rambling or overly for both and

83
00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:46.399
at the same time, if the
person is quiet and reserved, men are

84
00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:49.680
deemed thoughtful or humble. Women who
don't speak a lot are perceived as shy

85
00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:56.199
or worse unintelligence. And those examples
go on. It It almost reads like

86
00:05:56.199 --> 00:06:00.720
a funny email, but it's obviously
not. So are a bunch more of

87
00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:02.720
these. But what I started to
think about where, Okay, it's interesting

88
00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:06.680
on the one hand of different perceptions
that we have with the same characteristics,

89
00:06:08.079 --> 00:06:13.720
and by the same token, we're
almost telling people to be more similar and

90
00:06:13.959 --> 00:06:17.000
forcing them to ignore their differences,
which I think is a bad thing too.

91
00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:23.079
Oh my gosh, there's so much
there, and you're reminding me so

92
00:06:23.120 --> 00:06:25.480
many There's so many little thinking things
going on in my head. As I

93
00:06:25.519 --> 00:06:28.759
listened to talk and I'll just briefly
say that I remember, let's see,

94
00:06:28.759 --> 00:06:32.959
you'd be like fifteen sixteen years ago
when I left mostly male predominated work environments

95
00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:36.800
and went to work for the first
time in almost exclusively female environment, and

96
00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:40.000
I went into it Jamie thinking,
oh my god, this is going to

97
00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:43.639
be terrible. It's going to be
you know, a lot of backbiting and

98
00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:46.639
you know, et cetera. So
it was a phenomenal experience. And so

99
00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:51.639
even I, as a woman,
walk into these environments with these what do

100
00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:57.079
we want to say, unbacked up
expectations and bias, which is just crazy.

101
00:06:57.199 --> 00:07:00.040
Yeah. No, I think it's
very natural on both sides. I

102
00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:02.040
mean, honestly, when I started
writing the book, I was really worried

103
00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:08.600
about being seen as you know,
hear me, we're feminist types, because

104
00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:10.879
I was like, okay, I
think that's follong on death ears. But

105
00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:14.240
it's also like, oh, I
don't relate to that, Like I love

106
00:07:14.279 --> 00:07:16.600
being girly, but I also can
do a lot of other things that are

107
00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:19.639
not in the girls spectrum. So
I really, you know, sort of

108
00:07:19.639 --> 00:07:23.879
battled with that myself as well,
my own stereotypes, my own biases.

109
00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:27.639
Well, you know, speaking of
that, I don't. I it's it's

110
00:07:27.639 --> 00:07:30.079
just interesting, Jamie. I remember
when the word feminist has, you know,

111
00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:33.639
a lot more claim in conversations,
and it seems to have today.

112
00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:39.839
I very seldom hear that word very
much these days. But I'm just curious,

113
00:07:39.959 --> 00:07:44.120
what do you think it means to
be a feminist today? A key,

114
00:07:44.399 --> 00:07:47.079
It's very simple. I think feminism
means equal rights and opportunities for women.

115
00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:51.079
And I think I think maybe the
reason why you're not hearing that word

116
00:07:51.160 --> 00:07:55.600
per se is because who doesn't agree
with that, right, I mean,

117
00:07:55.600 --> 00:08:00.360
pretty much everyone agrees with that concept, But I think ticking. I think

118
00:08:00.399 --> 00:08:05.040
the challenge is where people equate the
concept of equality with the idea that men

119
00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:07.759
and women are or have to be
the same. And I think that's part

120
00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:11.199
of the problem because to me,
men and women are absolutely equal, there's

121
00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:15.279
no question there. But I don't
think for a minute that we're the same.

122
00:08:15.639 --> 00:08:18.759
And I think once we start treating
or even expecting people to be the

123
00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:22.680
same, especially in business, honestly, we're really missing out on a chance

124
00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:28.240
to use our differences in a positive
way. You know. One of the

125
00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:30.680
great things I love about hosting the
show, Jamie, is I kind of

126
00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:33.440
consider it my own, you know, weekly opportunity for professional development, to

127
00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:37.960
kind of nurture my mind and simulate
my thinking, et cetera. And then

128
00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:39.440
I just happen to be sharing with
whoever's listening, you know, on the

129
00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:45.000
radio. That's kind of how I'm
past the show. And I love what

130
00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:48.679
you just said there about this notion
that maybe you don't hear the word feminists

131
00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:52.279
so much and more is because everybody
expects that the two genders are equal.

132
00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:56.279
That's what's fascinating idea. I hope
that that's exactly right, and maybe that

133
00:08:56.360 --> 00:09:00.639
is where we're headed. I mean, I'm not ashamed to say I'm fifty

134
00:09:00.679 --> 00:09:03.759
two years old, so I've been
in the workplace for over thirty years and

135
00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:07.919
it has changed. It certainly has
changed, and I can tell you even

136
00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:09.919
just you know, the way we're
preparing for the workplace is different. I

137
00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:13.840
mean, I also teach Southern Methodist
University in Dallas, and we most of

138
00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:22.840
us know that fifty seven percent of
most educational or college students are female today.

139
00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:26.799
Yeah, clearly a big shift,
right. So one of the things

140
00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:30.720
I think is great about what you're
doing and expanding this conversation is the the

141
00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:35.879
earth is literally moving under our feet
with regard to how the workplace is changing

142
00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:41.120
between the genders and many other ways, and so it's very timely. I

143
00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:43.639
guess I'd like to also ask you
that along that line, I mean,

144
00:09:43.679 --> 00:09:46.559
what kinds of things are you hearing
from your readers? What are people saying

145
00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:52.200
when they join the conversation to expand
it? So, I mean there's a

146
00:09:52.279 --> 00:09:54.559
couple of different things I've been hearing, you know, from I love kind

147
00:09:54.600 --> 00:10:00.919
I say, I really love when
guys enter the conversation once they feel comfortable,

148
00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:01.919
I guess, for lack of better
words, that they can really be

149
00:10:01.960 --> 00:10:07.039
honest about it because I think it
can be it can be tough, you

150
00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:09.639
know. And that's where I think
some of some of the rhetoric has become

151
00:10:09.639 --> 00:10:15.080
a little bit angry, like you
said. And there's a difference between feminism

152
00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:18.799
and inequality, I guess in terms
of you know, rights like human rights,

153
00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:24.679
healthcare, legal equalities, that kind
of the same right versus business right,

154
00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:30.480
and in capitalism, I guess supply
and demand, because they're not everything

155
00:10:30.679 --> 00:10:35.399
is fair right, and you know, I mean anything gender or otherwise right.

156
00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:39.600
Fairness isn't always a concept so big
in business right. I mean,

157
00:10:39.639 --> 00:10:43.679
it's it's survival of the fittest,
it is supply and demand, it's competition,

158
00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:50.039
and it's it's all of that which
is not the same as equal rations

159
00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:54.200
or you know, equality for all
or the sameness again, and so I

160
00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:58.879
think you know business leaders that have
sort of jumped into this conversation. It's

161
00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:01.440
tricky in business. It's a question
of like, you know, do you

162
00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:05.279
hold spots for women? What do
we do about the pay gap? Do

163
00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:11.279
you have to recognizing different gender characteristics? Is it the responsibility of the leader

164
00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:18.159
or the organization, male or female
to abide by those not abide, but

165
00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:22.279
start to work with the different characteristics
to help in some ways versus others.

166
00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:26.480
You know, where does responsibility live
versus you know, just kind of because

167
00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:30.919
they want to or because it actually
makes business sense. Those are the conversations,

168
00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:33.840
but I think are really part of
part of the interesting thing of expanding

169
00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:37.720
it. I really appreciate what you
said about that. You really appreciate and

170
00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:41.200
love when men join the conversation.
So again I want to give up this

171
00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:45.840
idea with you and see what your
responses to it. So I do a

172
00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:50.600
fair amount of speaking to women about
leadership and about empowerment topics. It's just

173
00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:52.720
something that I've kind of gravitated to
over the years and I love doing it.

174
00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:56.639
And a few months ago, a
couple months ago, I guess,

175
00:11:56.679 --> 00:12:01.200
I was moderating a panel at a
pharmaceutical conference and it was really the whole

176
00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:05.720
thing was about empowering female leadership within
the field because, like what you were

177
00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:09.519
saying before, it happens to be
a very male dominated industry. Yeah,

178
00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:13.240
I appreciated about that. Is that
So it was like seven thirty am when

179
00:12:13.240 --> 00:12:18.080
we had breakfast. We picked off
the panel at eight o'clock on Friday morning

180
00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:20.559
or Thursday morning, and there were
probably ninety five women in the room and

181
00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:26.759
exactly three men. And the first
thing I did was I said, good

182
00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:30.360
morning, and I want to welcome
and thank men for joining the conversation here

183
00:12:30.399 --> 00:12:33.799
and supporting whatever woman you're with.
And you know, Trum, I wanted

184
00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:37.279
them to be part of the conversation, as you were saying. And I

185
00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:41.960
hear this kind of feedback from men
oftentimes when they do happen to join a

186
00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:46.120
women's oriented conversation around leadership development,
etc. They say, and this kind

187
00:12:46.120 --> 00:12:48.879
of maybe gets to what you're saying
about not being equal, but they're not

188
00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:52.879
being similar, not being the same, but being different and that's great.

189
00:12:52.919 --> 00:12:56.799
They always say, man, women
have this thing about being unified and men

190
00:12:56.879 --> 00:13:00.639
would never do something like this.
This is just not what men do,

191
00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:03.679
and right always walk away from that
thinking to myself, Yeah, I know,

192
00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:07.879
isn't it cool? What's your How
do you respond to that? What

193
00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:11.720
I just told you about? I
think? I mean, I think men

194
00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:16.279
never had to write so like it's
to be always in the majority, always

195
00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:20.720
in like the superior position, and
try to relate to someone that's not so.

196
00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:24.080
I think that's hard to begin with. But I think part of it

197
00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:28.200
is looking if you look at it
as an US versus them, or even

198
00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:33.399
like those guys being there to support
the women. I think, honestly,

199
00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:37.919
I think that's where it's sort of
like it's falling apart because yeah, maybe

200
00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:41.080
they're going to be there because it
works with their schedule, or again they're,

201
00:13:41.159 --> 00:13:43.279
like you said, they're supporting their
friend or their colleague. But that's

202
00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:46.320
not going to move the needle,
right, I mean in business of all

203
00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:52.399
things, like people are motivated by
business and profit and the bottom line,

204
00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:56.200
right, So I don't think it's
gonna, honestly, like do enough to

205
00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:58.960
say, Okay, we got to
fix the gender and balance or the gender

206
00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:03.799
problem to make it more equitable,
because that's what's fair. I think that's

207
00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:05.919
going to work. I don't think
I think I really don't think that's no

208
00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:07.759
work at all. I think it
comes down to, like, Okay,

209
00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:11.279
maybe that would be more fair,
but more importantly, it's going to be

210
00:14:11.399 --> 00:14:16.159
an advantage for your business. It's
going to lead to bigger success, bigger

211
00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:20.240
innovation, bigger profits, and here's
why. And the numbers actually really do

212
00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:22.120
support this. So that's why I'm
like, I feel like we're having the

213
00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:28.440
wrong conversations. To sub degree,
I appreciate so much your perspective and admit

214
00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:31.960
that takes me to just the general
notion of, you know, valuing differences

215
00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:35.799
in general, meaning you know,
that's the general diversity and inclusion discussion,

216
00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:39.720
not just not just gender, et
cetera. But over the years, I'm

217
00:14:39.879 --> 00:14:45.360
right, I've had some wonderful opportunities
to spearhead those kind of panels, those

218
00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:50.360
kind of conferences, and of course
I'm the person who craves just somebody who's

219
00:14:50.440 --> 00:14:52.720
different from me in terms of conversation, which is right. I love to

220
00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:58.799
travel, I love languages. So
you focus on the gender piece of it,

221
00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:01.720
But how do you think that connects
to the rest of the whole diversity

222
00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:03.960
conversations. I think it's a potal
an. Actually, I think you're absolutely

223
00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:07.960
right. I mean, I focus
on gender more because that's where my research

224
00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:11.120
lies and sort of my interests is
there. But I think you're absolutely right.

225
00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:15.360
I think it's it really comes down
to just complementary differences, right,

226
00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:18.879
and perspectives, and that can be
gender, it can be race, it

227
00:15:18.919 --> 00:15:22.559
can be age, it can be
geography, you know, it can it

228
00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:26.159
can be talent, like it really
is across the board. And so I

229
00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:30.840
think it's easy for people then to
say, Okay, well there's different perspectives

230
00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:35.159
between you know, a white man
living in Minnesota and an Asian man living

231
00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:39.360
in Taiwan. Okay, Like,
yes, that's true, right, But

232
00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:43.039
the gender one is like it's kind
of fifty fifty for like the broader global

233
00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:46.240
world. So it's like, okay, why don't we start there with the

234
00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:50.480
gender piece? You know, well, I am thrilled to be talking about

235
00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:54.360
that because I think it is hugely
important to expand that conversation and to advance

236
00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:58.320
it. And one of the things
you and I talked about when we were

237
00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:00.360
on the phone, and I know
this is in your book too, is

238
00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:03.000
the B word in the workplace?
Of course, I mean bias? Will

239
00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:07.720
you find internet? Yeah, so
I was did a ton of research on

240
00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:11.600
this. So, I mean,
most people are aware of sort of conscious

241
00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:15.960
biases, you know, which we
kind of all have. We you know,

242
00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:18.799
we live in a very media centric
world where blasted from like you know,

243
00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:22.120
the day we're born, with all
these different outward sensory things that are

244
00:16:22.120 --> 00:16:27.080
teaching us different biases. But you
also have a lot of implicit biases or

245
00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:32.559
subconscious biases, which are totally normal, they're not malicious at all. But

246
00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:37.480
that's also you know, puts forth
by different external factories, factors that are

247
00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:40.600
completely found our control. So it's
what we see, it's what we read,

248
00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:45.440
it's it's our own experiences. And
again they're they're not good or bad,

249
00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:49.240
they're just they just exist and they
really do have an effect on our

250
00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:52.919
perception of things. Everything. Start
to give you a couple examples in the

251
00:16:52.960 --> 00:17:00.639
gender space. Everything from a person's
voice, so like a higher register versus

252
00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:04.839
a lower register, a lower register
for example, signals to most people a

253
00:17:04.960 --> 00:17:08.359
sense of authority in a different way, which makes sense. It's kind of

254
00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:11.160
intuitive, you know, most people
are like, oh, yeah, that

255
00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:15.640
works, right, But there have
been studies done that now show that actually

256
00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:19.119
a lower register and they've they've actually
like quantified it by the amount of hurts

257
00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:26.519
involved equates to a different pay compensation, which is fascinating. Then when you

258
00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:29.279
get into the world as business,
so then it's like, okay, well,

259
00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:33.160
if the average woman's voice register is, you know, certain hurts higher

260
00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:38.160
than a man's, she's essentially at
a disadvantage from the moment she speaks right,

261
00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:41.799
which cannot be over which can be
overcome. But that's the good thing.

262
00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:47.400
It's just sort of being aware of
these biases. So the biggest takeaway

263
00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:51.680
for me in that research was one
again that these are not malicious. So

264
00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:59.119
most of the time a person's implicit
or subconscious biases actually do not align with

265
00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:02.640
their out thinking, which is good. That's good. And then the other

266
00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:06.359
piece of that is that they're one
hundred percent valueball. So once you're aware

267
00:18:06.559 --> 00:18:10.319
and become and sort of recognize them, you can actively work to change them

268
00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:12.480
or combat them, which is really
helpful too. Oh, my gosh,

269
00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:15.519
Jamie, There's so much I want
to say about that, but let's cut

270
00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:18.440
to our first break. After the
break, I'll comment on that. I'm

271
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:21.920
your host Elist Cortez with their own
year with Jamie Baine Hanson, who is

272
00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:26.480
the author of Expanding the Conversation Because
real leaders leverage gender differences to create a

273
00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:30.279
competitive advantage in business. She joined
a TODA from Los Angeles. We've been

274
00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:33.839
talking a bit about how it is
that she's gathered her perspective on gender.

275
00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:37.079
After the break, we're going to
talk about how maybe changing it can make

276
00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:52.279
for a better business world. Stay
with us. Friend us on Facebook to

277
00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:59.000
keep up with what's empowering the world. Voice America Empowerment Elis Cortez is a

278
00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:03.200
speaker and in agement and development catalyst. She designs and delivers professional development,

279
00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:08.440
leadership and engagement workshops and can bring
her expertise to your organization. She will

280
00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:14.920
help ignite meaningful development within your workforce
that will increase employee engagement, performance and

281
00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:18.119
retention. To learn more or to
invite a lease to speak to your organization,

282
00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:23.400
please visit her at www dot Leise
Cortez dot com. She would welcome

283
00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:30.680
the opportunity to help get your employees
working on Purpose. Have you friended us

284
00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:33.319
on Facebook yet? Why not?
Just go to Facebook dot com, forward

285
00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:37.240
slash Voice America or search for the
keywords Voice America. Once you are part

286
00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:41.960
of our Facebook network, you'll receive
daily messages about what's happening with our shows,

287
00:19:41.119 --> 00:19:45.680
this week's feature Yes, and new
happenings at the Voice America Talk radio

288
00:19:45.799 --> 00:19:48.960
network. And you can add your
voice to the always active discussions on our

289
00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:52.759
wall. Just go to Facebook dot
com, forward slash Voice America or search

290
00:19:52.839 --> 00:20:00.319
for Voice America. It's your world. Motivate, change, succeed, Voice

291
00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:15.680
America Empowerment dot com. This is
Working on Purpose with Elise Cortez. To

292
00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:19.759
reach our program today, please call
in to one triple eight three four six

293
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:25.720
nine one four one. Again that's
one triple eight three four six nine one

294
00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:32.039
four one. You may also send
an email to Elise ali Se at Elise

295
00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:37.480
Cortez dot com. Now back to
Working on Purpose. Thanks for staying with

296
00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:41.400
us, and welcome back to working
on Purpose if you're just joining us.

297
00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:45.079
My guest is Jamie Baine Hanson,
who is a writer, speaker, investor,

298
00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:48.359
and thought leader on women in business. She spent her early career with

299
00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:51.880
an economics consulting from a Washington DC, and she made a career switch after

300
00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:55.319
earning her MBA at Duke University and
spent the next ten plus years as a

301
00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:59.359
business executive in the tech indistry and
working for such companies as Yahoo, Fox,

302
00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:03.200
Chorus on Demand. She is the
author of Expanding the Conversation Because real

303
00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:07.279
leaders leverage generative business to create a
competitive advantage in business. I'm your host,

304
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:11.680
Alice Cortez, so Jamie. Just
before the break, we were talking

305
00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:15.039
about the good news being that our
biases are something that one we can surface

306
00:21:15.160 --> 00:21:19.160
to a more conscious level and to
actually work to change. And I just

307
00:21:19.240 --> 00:21:23.559
wanted to quickly comment on that because
it's a lot of the work that we

308
00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:27.960
do right now with management consultants working
with executives. But I really want to

309
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:32.440
tell our listeners how encouraging that ought
to be for them, because you know,

310
00:21:32.519 --> 00:21:34.319
we're not stuck with our bodasies.
We're not stuck with these hidden things

311
00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:40.160
that may actually disempower us or the
people that we work with. We can

312
00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:44.799
actually reveal them, surface them,
and then apply a different mindset. And

313
00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:51.000
I hope that's encouraging to women and
men. Yeah, I think so too.

314
00:21:51.119 --> 00:21:52.640
You know, there's one other example
that I was thinking of us I

315
00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:57.240
think really speaks to that, especially, which is which actually both men and

316
00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:02.720
women plan too, which is so
especially in an American business. Studies have

317
00:22:02.839 --> 00:22:08.480
shown that the characteristic of stability is
very revered in American business. Right.

318
00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:15.400
And then now think about sort of
the perfect illustration of a very successful,

319
00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:18.200
high powered, fierce woman. If
you think of like a sleek, polished

320
00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:22.880
high heel too, right, like
Allubaton or something fantastic, And then you

321
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:26.759
think, okay, that's really great
until you realize that's five inches of millimeter

322
00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:32.839
thin little weights that this woman has
to stand on. So like typically all

323
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:34.759
women know this. When you're on
heels, you're rocking back and forth,

324
00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:37.799
you're you know, you come up
with a variety of different ways to get

325
00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:42.440
comfortable or make it through a long
day. And I think subconsciously, both

326
00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:47.279
to men and women, we don't
realize that that's also sort of projecting,

327
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:51.279
you know, an illustration of instability, this rocking back and forth, this

328
00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:52.839
going side to side, just sitting
down, whatever the case may be.

329
00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:59.279
But once you recognize that, then
I think if you can sort of overlay

330
00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:02.920
that with the with a feeling of
empathy, or even like wow, that

331
00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:06.559
woman is strong for standing in those
heels all day, or like wow,

332
00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:08.359
I don't know that I could do
that. It sort of paints it in

333
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:14.119
a different picture. It's no longer
a sort of subconscious bias of there's a

334
00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:18.480
lot of instability happening here. I
don't feel so secure versus Wow, this

335
00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:22.400
is a really strong woman that can
do all of this and dance backwards and

336
00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:26.400
heels as they like to say,
Right, I got to see a picture

337
00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:29.480
in my mind by the way,
Jamie says, you were painting it for

338
00:23:29.559 --> 00:23:34.759
me, great example. Okay,
well along those lines, right, So

339
00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:37.839
part of what I think you're getting
at is just starting to really look at

340
00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:41.519
the you know, the other gender
with the different lens. And so for

341
00:23:41.640 --> 00:23:44.880
this next segment, I really wanted
to think about what can we do to

342
00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:48.000
maybe change our lens and how am
I doing so improve the business world.

343
00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:52.039
So the next thing I wanted to
talk about is, you know, when

344
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:56.039
you think about you painted a picture
for us, how how characteristics tend to

345
00:23:56.079 --> 00:24:00.400
be viewed among the two genders.
How do you think the work could be

346
00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:04.319
enhanced and maybe even productive productivity improved
if we could get away from this black

347
00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:10.599
and white dichotomy thinking about how we
tend to see the other gender. I

348
00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:17.559
think we need to stop associating different
characteristics with different genders and set off.

349
00:24:17.599 --> 00:24:22.960
We could strip away those preconceived perception
and then just take a space value in

350
00:24:22.079 --> 00:24:26.319
individuals different strengths and characteristics. I
think. I think just by doing that,

351
00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:30.000
we start to see people not as
men in this camp and women in

352
00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:36.319
this camp, but more as unique
individuals with a collection of different skills and

353
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:41.720
personality traits. But that makes sense. That's yummy, That's really yummy.

354
00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:44.880
Okay, Now, I think we've
probably talked about this in our introductory conversation

355
00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:48.720
together on the phone, but I
probably told you that one of my long

356
00:24:48.920 --> 00:24:53.359
standing fascinations is the idea of androgeny, and they reason right. So the

357
00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:57.759
reason I've been so attracted to that
is, and maybe it's somewhat related to

358
00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:02.799
this conversation, or maybe it's the
beginning of this conversation, but I've always

359
00:25:02.839 --> 00:25:06.920
had the notion that, you know, if men could, you could adopt

360
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:10.960
them as it considered the more traditional
sort of aspects of being you know,

361
00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:15.440
emotionally available, being able to emotionally
express themselves. Being in touch with their

362
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:18.400
emotions one how much freer they would
be. And now we know today that

363
00:25:18.519 --> 00:25:22.680
when they add emotional intelligence to their
management style, we know how much more

364
00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:26.200
effective they are. So that's born
out. And then on the other side,

365
00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:30.359
when women can own more of what's
considered a traditional stance of power often

366
00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:33.559
associated with men, you know,
look what happens to their careers and their

367
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:38.319
ability to actually impact things. And
so I've had this long fascination with androgeny.

368
00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:44.200
How do you connect that with what
you've been observing and what you care

369
00:25:44.200 --> 00:25:48.319
about with regarding to the gender conversation, I think you're absolutely right. I

370
00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:52.799
mean, I think if we look
at the different personalities and strengths as different

371
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:56.480
tools rather than you know, male
specific, female specific, whatever you have,

372
00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:00.319
you then they can be used in
different ways. Is so you know

373
00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:04.240
sometimes, yeah, sometimes empathy is
really needed for a given situation. Right,

374
00:26:04.640 --> 00:26:07.039
That doesn't have to come from a
woman, but you know, if

375
00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:11.200
it typically does, maybe a man
can see that and say, wow,

376
00:26:11.480 --> 00:26:14.720
I need that, I need to
learn how to do that because in X,

377
00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:17.599
Y and Z situations that really would
have come in handy. Right,

378
00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:22.240
Sometimes you need someone with more aggression. Sometimes you need someone with a more

379
00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:25.319
authoritative stance, or someone to play
the role of, you know, the

380
00:26:25.400 --> 00:26:29.000
nice guy moderator. Like I think, they're just different tools. And the

381
00:26:29.079 --> 00:26:32.960
more that you can build your personal
arsenal, the more you have at your

382
00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:37.759
disposal, not just like to use
individually, but also use in combination with

383
00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:41.559
each other for a given circumstance.
I just want to give a quick example

384
00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:44.960
because that comes to mind when it
comes to somebody that kind of falls into

385
00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:47.319
the camp I just mentioned before.
It just occurred to me. But one

386
00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:52.680
of our two pounding partners is a
very very polished, handsome man, very

387
00:26:52.720 --> 00:26:59.000
well schooled, very articulate, very
smart businessman, and he's great at me

388
00:26:59.160 --> 00:27:03.759
understands the whole world of economics and
business, et cetera. And he is

389
00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:06.920
one of the first people to cry
in a room when he gets moved.

390
00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:11.720
And it is so lovely to behold
Jamie because it sets him apart. I

391
00:27:11.799 --> 00:27:17.440
mean, he looks, he's accessible. He is really probably so powerful,

392
00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:22.599
right, incredibly powerful. Yeah.
Yeah, an example of what we're talking

393
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:25.319
about. And there it is.
It's not like this could be one day,

394
00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:27.640
it does exist today and when it
does exist. I think it really

395
00:27:27.720 --> 00:27:32.319
does set these people apart. I
do think so too. I think it.

396
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:34.559
I think it can be trickier going
the other way. So I think,

397
00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:38.599
like I think men typically have an
easier time the more that they can

398
00:27:38.680 --> 00:27:45.880
adopt some stereotypically female traits, whereas
you know, historically, when a woman

399
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:49.839
adopts some more you know, stereotypically
male traits, she is you know,

400
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:55.440
called names or whatnot. Right,
So I think that can be a little

401
00:27:55.480 --> 00:27:57.000
bit more difficult for a woman,
But it's just something that we need to

402
00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:00.759
continue to work at to not see
them as just underdominated things but actually like

403
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:06.039
tools in our arsenal. You know
what's beautiful about that? What you just

404
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:08.279
said there, it's so funny,
I can I guess. I don't know

405
00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:11.799
how people would perceive me, but
I guess I would. I certainly think

406
00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:17.480
that being a woman in business,
when I see a woman who is direct

407
00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:22.079
and communicates directly and with authority and
it is articulate, I think she's a

408
00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:26.599
rock star. Now. I've also
been though, in conversations and crowds where

409
00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:29.839
sometimes some of the you're right,
the response is wow, I feel like,

410
00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:33.119
you know this is intimidating, or
she's you know, kind of out

411
00:28:33.160 --> 00:28:38.160
of line, or a boy,
she's got a mouth on her or so

412
00:28:40.119 --> 00:28:42.000
this is my own bias responding to
Yeah, I like it that rock,

413
00:28:42.119 --> 00:28:48.200
So I recognize that that's not necessarily
registered maybe from all the male vantage point.

414
00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:52.119
Yeah, I kind of also comes
down to, like if it feels

415
00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:56.720
authentic or not, Like, if
it feels genuine that you think that that

416
00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:00.759
person is owning it and that it's
coming from a real place and she is

417
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:03.079
who she is, and that's like
you buy it, you know what I

418
00:29:03.119 --> 00:29:04.240
mean, You're like, yeah,
I'm getting it. I'm eating up everything

419
00:29:04.319 --> 00:29:10.440
she's saying, super impowering. If
it feels more like she's playing a role,

420
00:29:10.839 --> 00:29:14.200
then I think it becomes you can
see through that a little bit more,

421
00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:17.279
and that's where it sort of starts
to not feel so okay, okay,

422
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:21.400
that makes complete sense. Yeah,
okay. Well, one of the

423
00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:23.000
things I like to do in this
show, Jamie for my listeners is I

424
00:29:23.079 --> 00:29:26.519
really always like to of course enlighten
them and inspire them, but I also

425
00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:30.880
want them to walk away with something
actionable that they can actually put to work

426
00:29:30.119 --> 00:29:33.119
as soon as they get off the
air. And I know, you talk

427
00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:37.640
in your book about the need for
leaders to reframe the conversation about gender and

428
00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:41.279
contribution at work. So what do
you think maybe are a couple of things

429
00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:45.839
we can do to help guide them
forward toward that role. So I think

430
00:29:45.920 --> 00:29:48.079
this is a really important piece of
the equation, and I think a lot

431
00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:52.119
of it actually starts with language and
words and labels, because I think we've,

432
00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:56.319
like in general, we've become very
careless in the department, in this

433
00:29:56.400 --> 00:30:00.440
department, which is not helping.
So I think that men, many people

434
00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:03.799
myself, I've I've fallen into this
as well, that we're sort of unaware

435
00:30:04.039 --> 00:30:08.359
of, you know, how innocent
labels can be attributed to characteristics having a

436
00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:14.039
direct correlation to the persist and of
the people that are associated with And again

437
00:30:14.119 --> 00:30:17.880
that's you know, it speaks again
to perception and reality being so closely intertwined

438
00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:22.079
that that's where it becomes dangerous.
So I'll give you another example. This

439
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:23.119
is in the book as well,
but I like this example a lot.

440
00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:29.839
So you know, oftentimes we speak
especially about women being very creative, right,

441
00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:33.400
and that's that's an advantage, it's
a positive compliment. But if you

442
00:30:33.519 --> 00:30:37.720
think about it, when we think
about creativity. You know, a lot

443
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:41.599
of the visual that comes to mind
is just naturally is like creole love.

444
00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:45.960
They built an entire brand around it, and which is amazing, but it's

445
00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:52.200
also sort of whimsical and lovely and
sort of childlike. Right. Creative and

446
00:30:52.440 --> 00:31:00.000
innovative mean almost the exact same thing, but innovative is a much more profession

447
00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:03.640
an all sounding term that is rarely
associated with women. Women are rarely called

448
00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:07.680
innovative. They're more often called creative, and men are called innovative. It's

449
00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:14.160
against they're almost sending embarras synonyms,
right, But they give off very different

450
00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:18.640
impressions. And I think that once
we recognize that, leadership can recognize that

451
00:31:18.759 --> 00:31:25.640
and really take care to use their
language in a specific way when describing different

452
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:32.720
employees or different personnelity within the organization
in a positive way. You know,

453
00:31:32.799 --> 00:31:34.279
when you were talking about that,
there's a word that came to my mind

454
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:37.480
that seems like it's probably a no
note today, and I want to throw

455
00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:40.240
it out there, and I want
to see if you have any other terms

456
00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:42.279
that you think we should displain avoid. But the word that comes to mind

457
00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:48.880
is cute. Is what cute?
Cute? Cute? Cute. Okay,

458
00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:52.240
Right, so when I think about
like, as a woman, for example,

459
00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:56.480
I probably would never want to say
that another woman is cute in any

460
00:31:56.519 --> 00:32:00.759
way, right, And I start
to I just it's just no servicing for

461
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:05.000
me in this conversation. And I
don't know how often I say cute,

462
00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:09.160
but it's occurring to me that that's
probably not serving my gender very well.

463
00:32:09.799 --> 00:32:14.319
Your thoughts, Yeah, No,
I agree with you. And it's interesting.

464
00:32:14.359 --> 00:32:16.559
I don't know if you saw.
You know the actress Mayambiolic. She's

465
00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:22.319
on Big Bang Theory. She used
to play Blossom back in the day.

466
00:32:22.680 --> 00:32:27.599
Well, and she's in addition to
being a very famous actress, she's also

467
00:32:27.680 --> 00:32:30.960
a neuroscientist, which is amazing,
and she Yeah, she's incredible. And

468
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:37.319
she did this whole sort of video
blog I guess that viral where she talks

469
00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:44.839
about the word girls and how she
thinks that adult women should never be referred

470
00:32:44.920 --> 00:32:49.759
to as girls by men or women, and she kind of goes off about

471
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:53.359
it. And I think this is
really interesting because I often say girls about

472
00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:57.799
my female friends or colleagues, or
even about myself, you know, I'll

473
00:32:57.799 --> 00:33:01.880
refer to myself as a girl.
But her take is that it is sort

474
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:06.200
of putting as a girl as a
child. She's not a woman, so

475
00:33:06.440 --> 00:33:09.680
it's inherently putting her at a lower
position, which is feeding through, you

476
00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:13.799
know, everything that goes forward.
That especially in business, which I thought

477
00:33:13.880 --> 00:33:15.599
was a really interesting take on.
It definitely made me sit, me think

478
00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:22.079
differently, sorted at my language used
there, m you know, this is

479
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:24.960
not not quite the same thing,
but it conjures for me something along these

480
00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:30.160
lines. So for me, I
love being a woman. I love dressing

481
00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:36.519
well, I love I love my
you know, very pretty shoes, jewelry,

482
00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:40.440
I take time with my makeup,
and I really enjoy being a woman.

483
00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:46.920
And I don't mind at all being
separated or what I want to say,

484
00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:52.279
segregated or not segregated but called out
as such, you know, the

485
00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:55.039
woman in the room kind of thing. But you're right, you know,

486
00:33:55.759 --> 00:34:01.599
if that's different than being a girl, which is more less mature, less

487
00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:05.559
like there's less value. I don't
want to see less value, but like

488
00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:08.519
there's something less evolved or mature there
almost what do you think is yeah,

489
00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:14.159
okay, okay, yeah, that
was how it was coming for me,

490
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:16.360
and I just it was one of
those associative thoughts and I made the rest.

491
00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:17.679
The other thing is, though,
on the other side of that,

492
00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:22.559
though I hate being called ma'm but
I'll take miss all day long. I

493
00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:27.440
agree. I totally agree. I
think that's our own biases about age and

494
00:34:27.519 --> 00:34:30.440
we're like, wait, who's a
man? Could you just say that's more

495
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:34.320
of an age thing. I totally
agree. But I think what you're also

496
00:34:34.400 --> 00:34:37.480
getting at too, is that you
know, there's what you're talking about,

497
00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:44.000
feminity right, and that it is
perfectly okay to be a professional leader in

498
00:34:44.159 --> 00:34:49.280
business and keep your femininity right.
And I think that's where But but again,

499
00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:52.880
like to your point that that's something
that's a differentiator between you know,

500
00:34:53.320 --> 00:34:55.840
a male dominated industry, right,
you have a lot of men in a

501
00:34:55.920 --> 00:35:00.039
room, a feminine woman is going
to stand out, and I don't I

502
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:04.079
think that's a bad thing. I
think that's actually a huge advantage and I

503
00:35:04.119 --> 00:35:07.400
don't think that has to be separate
from a professional leader. I still appreciate

504
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:10.559
you saying that. I certainly say
that all the time when I speak to

505
00:35:10.679 --> 00:35:15.639
women, but for you to say
it is another thing, and I completely

506
00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:19.559
agree, and I want the women
listening to the show today to actually get

507
00:35:19.599 --> 00:35:22.679
that message from you. Please you
know, don't don't don't be afraid to

508
00:35:22.719 --> 00:35:25.400
be feminine, you know, socially
role or in a business role. Please,

509
00:35:25.519 --> 00:35:28.679
And we don't think you have to
just put on a suit and deepen

510
00:35:28.719 --> 00:35:32.480
your voice. And even even though
you help us understand how people respond to

511
00:35:32.599 --> 00:35:36.599
that, I would be well.
And then I think that's a good point,

512
00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:40.239
Like it is important to understand how
people respond and what works. But

513
00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:45.079
that doesn't mean that like that's right
and that that can't be changed. I

514
00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:49.119
was I had this interview with this
I was speaking with this woman who runs

515
00:35:49.159 --> 00:35:52.760
sort of like a PR communication a
global PR communications company, and she helps

516
00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:58.480
different leaders of different global organizations sort
of work on their image. I guess

517
00:35:58.840 --> 00:36:00.800
as that's how she would probably to
describe it. And one of the things

518
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:04.679
she was saying, she's an older
woman, and one of her pieces of

519
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:08.039
advice to the younger women in the
room where if you want it regardless of

520
00:36:08.119 --> 00:36:12.199
industry, whether you're a journalist,
reporter, or in tech, whatever the

521
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:15.280
case may be, if you want
it to be taken seriously, she said,

522
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:22.119
your hair could not be longer than
shoulder length. And all these women

523
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:25.000
in the room starts just like writing
furiously and I'm sitting there thinking, is

524
00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:30.559
she kidding? Like, what does
this mean? I have to cut my

525
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:32.760
hair, I have to wear in
a pointytail? What is going on?

526
00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:38.960
And I just I absolutely refused to
believe that what how I wore my hair

527
00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:44.719
on my head was more important than
what was happening inside my head. And

528
00:36:45.079 --> 00:36:47.480
so I was like, Okay,
even if I understand that you know her,

529
00:36:47.960 --> 00:36:51.960
her data, it's it's packed up
by data and research. She's she's

530
00:36:52.039 --> 00:36:54.119
on this right, she actually has
the data support this in terms of how

531
00:36:54.199 --> 00:36:59.519
you're perceived. To me, that
was something like that's got to be changed.

532
00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:01.679
Like maybe maybe that did work,
Maybe that was sort of the way

533
00:37:01.760 --> 00:37:07.719
to get ahead was to be seen
as more masculine or less threatening or less

534
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.119
feminine, if you will. But
that's not something that's going to work going

535
00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:13.599
forward. And I think that that's
where we have to become our own advoct

536
00:37:13.639 --> 00:37:15.719
that to change there. Oh,
I am so with you, Jamie,

537
00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:20.239
and on that, let's take our
next break, perfect timing for that.

538
00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:22.039
We'll leave that as a resounding something
for folks to think about on a break.

539
00:37:22.519 --> 00:37:25.360
I'm your host, Thanks FORRTEZ.
Whether on the air was Jamie Baine

540
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:30.119
Hanson, who was the author of
Expanding the conversation Because real leaders leverage gender

541
00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:35.039
differences to creators competitive advantage in business. Do you joined the Stay from Los

542
00:37:35.079 --> 00:37:37.159
Angeles. After the week, We're
going to talk more about how the gender

543
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:42.119
conversation can relate to really help people
more meaningfully and productively connect with their work.

544
00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:59.760
Stay with us. Friend us on
Facebook to keep up with what's empowering

545
00:37:59.800 --> 00:38:07.280
the world. Voice America Empowermentcing Elise
Cortez is a speaker and engagement and development

546
00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:13.039
catalyst. She designs and delivers professional
development, leadership and engagement workshops and can

547
00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:16.880
bring her expertise to your organization.
She will help ignite meaningful development within your

548
00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:22.039
workforce that will increase employee engagement,
performance and retention. To learn more or

549
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:27.400
to invite a lase to speak to
your organization, please visit her at www

550
00:38:27.639 --> 00:38:31.199
dot Elise Cortez dot com. She
would welcome the opportunity to help get your

551
00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:37.039
employees working on purpose. We're making
it easier to listen to the Voice American

552
00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:42.079
Talk radio network wherever you go.
In addition to listening live, you can

553
00:38:42.159 --> 00:38:45.159
check out information about your favorite talk
show hosts, discover new talk show personalities

554
00:38:45.320 --> 00:38:50.679
at shows to your list of favorites
and listen to all our show archives on

555
00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:54.639
demand, all from your iPhone,
BlackBerry or Android downloaded from the Apple App

556
00:38:54.719 --> 00:39:00.159
Store, BlackBerry app World, or
Android Market and get ready to two in

557
00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:15.320
the Voice America Mold Black powered by
air Cashed the Girl Must Stop Bigancy.

558
00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:21.199
Get inspired, encouraged and connected on
our Lively Award winning Healthy Living power our

559
00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:27.400
Star Style Be the star you are
with host and empowerment architect Cynthia Brien live

560
00:39:27.559 --> 00:39:31.119
every Wednesday at four pm Pacific on
the Voice America Empowerment Channel. Tune into

561
00:39:31.119 --> 00:39:36.599
the Power Party for positive, uplifting, life changing talk radio. Visit Star

562
00:39:36.679 --> 00:39:52.599
Style Radio dot com. Star you
Lage, follow us on Twitter for more

563
00:39:52.679 --> 00:40:06.320
great ideas and Voice America Empowerment.
This is Working on Purpose with Elise Cortez.

564
00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:09.320
To reach our program today, please
call in to one triple eight three

565
00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:15.599
four six nine one four one Again
that's one triple eight three four six nine

566
00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:21.639
one four one. You may also
send an email to Elise ali Se at

567
00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:28.480
Elise Cortez dot com. Now back
to Working on Purpose. Thanks for thing

568
00:40:28.519 --> 00:40:30.320
with us, and welcome back to
working on Purpose. If you're just tuning

569
00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:34.679
in. My guest is Jamie bam
Hanson, who is a writer, speaker,

570
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:37.840
investor, and thought leader on women
in business. She spent her early

571
00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:40.360
career with an economist consulting from the
Washington DC, and then made a career

572
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:45.280
switch after earning her MBA at Duke
University, spending the next ten plus years

573
00:40:45.320 --> 00:40:49.119
as a business executive in the tech
industry, working for such companies as Yahoo,

574
00:40:49.280 --> 00:40:52.039
Fox, and Cornerstone on Demand.
She is the author of Expanding the

575
00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:57.559
Conversation Because real leader's leverage genatorfics is
to create a competitive advantage in business.

576
00:40:57.960 --> 00:41:00.840
I'm your host, Elise Cortez.
So just before the break, Jamie,

577
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:06.000
we were finishing our conversation about how
the world of business can be better when

578
00:41:06.039 --> 00:41:08.239
we start to change the lens.
And so before we go to the next

579
00:41:08.280 --> 00:41:10.880
segment, here, will you say
a little bit about how do you think

580
00:41:12.039 --> 00:41:19.119
organizations win would they start to change
their lens on gender? Yeah, So,

581
00:41:19.239 --> 00:41:22.239
I mean I think most of it
comes down to perspective. So you

582
00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:27.639
know, any time that you have
a group of people looking at a challenge

583
00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:30.719
or a problem, regardless of you
know the size of the problem or even

584
00:41:30.760 --> 00:41:34.880
the industry it's in it's the same. The people looking at the problem are

585
00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:38.079
all similar in the way that they
think, or approach it or talk about

586
00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:43.400
it. It's basically one person talking
to themselves. Right. If you have

587
00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:47.639
different people with different perspective and different
approaches to the problem in different ways to

588
00:41:47.719 --> 00:41:52.760
communicate about the problem, then you
know, it becomes a much more well,

589
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:55.840
it becomes a much more interesting conversation. But more importantly, you all

590
00:41:55.840 --> 00:42:00.840
of a sudden have more alternatives to
find a solution. You're basically casting a

591
00:42:00.920 --> 00:42:06.440
wider net. So you and I
were talking over the breakout. This is

592
00:42:06.480 --> 00:42:07.840
such a fun conversation for both of
us that we kind of chime into the

593
00:42:07.920 --> 00:42:13.639
others and start to add on each
other sentences. Yeah, I love that,

594
00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:17.519
and it's this is such a stimulating
conversation to have, an important one

595
00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:22.280
to have. And so now when
we think about taking this next part of

596
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:27.960
the conversation to thinking about gender conversations
in relation to helping people more meaningfully and

597
00:42:28.039 --> 00:42:32.000
productively connect with their work, what
true perspective on are happier employers, more

598
00:42:32.079 --> 00:42:37.119
productive employees, more part amazing?
Yeah? I think I think there's no

599
00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:43.599
question that a happier employee is more
productive. I mean they also like more

600
00:42:43.840 --> 00:42:47.079
happy and more prective people see a
different range of opportunity because you know,

601
00:42:47.159 --> 00:42:51.920
when you're happy, you're less get
down by negative thoughts and the more invested

602
00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:54.239
you are in your work. And
that doesn't just bring about greater efficiency or

603
00:42:54.280 --> 00:42:59.280
productivity, it also leads to clear
thinking and giving others a benefit of the

604
00:42:59.400 --> 00:43:06.360
doubt and better ideas and ultimately faster
progress because of you're reminding me. One

605
00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:08.679
of the things that we do in
our formal when we're working with clients here

606
00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:14.800
around breakthrough thinking and transformation organizations is
just really suspending for a moment what we

607
00:43:14.920 --> 00:43:19.079
think or sure that we know about
something or someone right and really trying to

608
00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:22.320
listen with fresh ears what that person
is saying to us. And it takes

609
00:43:22.360 --> 00:43:27.039
a tremendous amount of effort to do
that in presence of mind, et cetera,

610
00:43:27.079 --> 00:43:30.920
et cetera. But the payoffs invariably
are so much better for relationships and

611
00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:35.000
results. They it just takes something
to do that. Yeah, I think

612
00:43:35.039 --> 00:43:38.039
you're absolutely right, And I also
think that where that like exact idea comes

613
00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:43.400
into play, especially today, is
with the millennial generation, which I mean

614
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:46.159
obviously that's a conversation for a different
day. But so much has been said

615
00:43:46.239 --> 00:43:52.440
and written about the millennials. But
you know, I personally think I think

616
00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:57.639
that they are such a unique generation
with so many great characteristics that can really

617
00:43:57.840 --> 00:44:00.199
really transform the way that work is, you know, across the board.

618
00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:05.920
But I think that their needs and
their desires are also very different. I

619
00:44:05.960 --> 00:44:08.639
mean getting totally generalizing here, but
you know, one of the biggest things

620
00:44:08.719 --> 00:44:14.159
that's often said about that generation is
that they really want to have a voice,

621
00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:16.039
that want to be heard, They
want to be listened to, right,

622
00:44:16.639 --> 00:44:21.880
And the question is can leadership,
you know, take a beat to

623
00:44:22.039 --> 00:44:24.199
sort of, like you said,
like clear their biases, clear their like

624
00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:30.119
preconceptions of how they view different people
and different ideas, and listen to try

625
00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:31.760
to get new ways of thinking.
And I think, you know, that's

626
00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:37.239
going to come down to retaining these
employees but also really seeing them thrive in

627
00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:40.920
these different companies and industries. Yeah, okay, so you and order the

628
00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:45.519
same page on millennials. Part of
the reasons that I'm just start continuing to

629
00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:49.639
teach at SMU is because I want
to stay connected to the incoming generation of

630
00:44:49.719 --> 00:44:52.639
the workforce and really if you look
at the numbers. It won't be long

631
00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:58.280
before that generation comprises the majority of
the workforce, so we better understand them

632
00:44:58.440 --> 00:45:04.599
because they're absolutely pretty So I'm completely
with you on that. Have you seen

633
00:45:04.639 --> 00:45:08.920
any differences that we're sort of unexpected
to you are surprising, not unexpected.

634
00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:13.800
But I'll tell you I just left
and this is I think somewhat indicative.

635
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:15.280
Again not I can't. We can't
generalize, as you say before, But

636
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:21.960
I just left to coaching conversation with
a woman who's twenty eight and she is

637
00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:27.199
just dynamic Jamie. She's she's a
mechanical engineer, and so she thinks and

638
00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:30.880
she's got it. She loves structure, and she loves data analysis, and

639
00:45:30.039 --> 00:45:34.880
she likes working and making arguments from
data. She's but she's at the same

640
00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:38.559
time, you know, extremely connected
to the emotional realm of her world.

641
00:45:38.719 --> 00:45:43.559
And I also understand strategy and things
like that. And the other thing about

642
00:45:43.599 --> 00:45:47.039
her that I think is very much
rooted in her generation is that she's she

643
00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:52.360
has it the multitasking, need for
stimulation, need for challenges like off the

644
00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:57.039
chart for her, and I do
think that there is something that comes from

645
00:45:57.079 --> 00:46:00.599
her generation. Maybe it's because she
was schooled on you know, iPhones,

646
00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:02.199
I don't know, grow up with
an iPhone or inner inner crib, I

647
00:46:02.239 --> 00:46:07.719
don't know. But I think there's
something about that intensity and ability to think

648
00:46:07.800 --> 00:46:13.599
on those different dimensions at this seemingly
the same time, yet also demand and

649
00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:16.039
want, you know, some work
life balance as well at the same time.

650
00:46:16.199 --> 00:46:20.719
I think there's something to that.
Yeah, I agree, and I

651
00:46:20.800 --> 00:46:23.119
think there's a lot of criticism that
says, you know, the millennial generation

652
00:46:23.239 --> 00:46:28.239
is too idealistic, they're not realistic, and you know, my comeback to

653
00:46:28.280 --> 00:46:30.079
that is always just like why do
they have to be mutually exclusive, Like

654
00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:36.000
why can't you know, leaders actually
want to be realistic in terms of what's

655
00:46:36.079 --> 00:46:39.360
required and doing you know, multiple
things that want at one time so that

656
00:46:39.400 --> 00:46:43.360
they recognize that, you know,
everything that they work and is multifaceted,

657
00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:46.599
but also want to have an impact, have a great personal life, like

658
00:46:47.360 --> 00:46:51.239
enjoy their time on earth, you
know, all across the board, while

659
00:46:51.360 --> 00:46:54.960
really liking their work. And I
think once we find that combination, that's

660
00:46:55.079 --> 00:47:00.159
that's really where it's just everything sort
of goes into a new level. I

661
00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:04.400
completely agree, you know, along
those lines and coming kind of back to

662
00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:07.679
where we rooted this conversation. You
know, there's an argument to be made

663
00:47:07.719 --> 00:47:10.800
that while the gender rebalance is obviously
a challenge for women in the workplace,

664
00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:15.840
for the most part, mensy would
think it's pretty okay. So where do

665
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:20.320
you think that plays into this conversation
of possibiity disrupting things and kind of getting

666
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:25.360
us back in terms of progress and
productivity. Yeah, so I've had I've

667
00:47:25.400 --> 00:47:29.800
had this conversation a couple of times
actually with different people, including my husband

668
00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:34.760
a long time ago. And I
think I think the main question here is,

669
00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:37.639
you know, even if women make
up fifty percent of the population,

670
00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:42.159
business in America seems to be thriving. Why should we change something if it's

671
00:47:42.199 --> 00:47:46.559
not broken? Right for me,
I guess the answer is, Well,

672
00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:50.199
for starters, I do think it's
broken, but I think it has nothing

673
00:47:50.239 --> 00:47:52.920
to do with the quality. Like, again, I'm all bard quality in

674
00:47:53.000 --> 00:47:57.639
other places, but I don't necessarily
think that's a requirement in business. I

675
00:47:57.760 --> 00:48:02.280
think rather we're missing like a tremendous
opportunity here by excluding women in the professional

676
00:48:02.480 --> 00:48:07.559
arena. And I don't think that
that's just you know, in one specific

677
00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:10.960
area. I do think it's across
the board. And I think that there's

678
00:48:12.119 --> 00:48:16.360
real innovation to happen with more diverse
thinking. And that's where I think.

679
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:20.239
I think we need to catch up
and make sure that we still ahi the

680
00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:22.159
game, I guess, and again
to your point, all the more reason

681
00:48:22.239 --> 00:48:27.679
we need to keep expanding the conversation. No, exactly, please weigh in

682
00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:30.599
listeners. Yes, No, Another
question comes to my mind. Do you

683
00:48:30.719 --> 00:48:36.159
think that that the gender conversation is
more important for some industries versus others?

684
00:48:37.960 --> 00:48:42.280
That's a good question. So,
I mean, I think it's important for

685
00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:45.800
every industry. I really do.
But I guess personally, I get really

686
00:48:45.920 --> 00:48:52.519
excited when I think about an industry
that is predominantly female or predominantly male either

687
00:48:52.639 --> 00:48:55.159
way, and just start thinking about
how different it could look if it had

688
00:48:55.159 --> 00:49:00.280
a mixed perspective. So, you
know, even like finance, how care,

689
00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:04.960
even education, you know, I
think each of those brings a host

690
00:49:05.079 --> 00:49:09.039
of really toughs, really important challenges
that we were not even we haven't even

691
00:49:09.079 --> 00:49:13.880
come close to solving yet. And
I think, you know, adding the

692
00:49:13.960 --> 00:49:17.320
different perspectives, especially of the mixed
genders, could really, you know,

693
00:49:17.559 --> 00:49:22.800
provide a serious change that would be
tremendous, just absolutely amazing and cross the

694
00:49:22.840 --> 00:49:27.440
board. But I just, I
just what I see in all of this

695
00:49:27.559 --> 00:49:31.960
conversation is possibility. I see a
possibility for women to come more into their

696
00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:36.800
own, express more of themselves,
and have maybe more of an impact,

697
00:49:36.840 --> 00:49:39.159
if that's what they want. And
I see men being able to learn from

698
00:49:39.280 --> 00:49:43.559
women and being able to not have
to feel like they have to stuff their

699
00:49:43.559 --> 00:49:46.039
emotions, if in which in order
to be respected, et cetera, et

700
00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:51.519
cetera. I just I see so
much when on all angles here that I

701
00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:55.519
don't know why we're not having more
conversations about this. Yeah, I agree,

702
00:49:55.559 --> 00:49:58.360
and I think again, I think
it comes down to, like,

703
00:49:58.760 --> 00:50:00.760
you know, women, I think
are talking about it because they recognize that

704
00:50:00.800 --> 00:50:04.800
there's something to be gained for them. And I think a lot of men

705
00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:08.079
are not talking about it because they
think the women are just sort of being

706
00:50:08.199 --> 00:50:13.840
whiny or complaining or angry or whatnot. And I think that's where, you

707
00:50:13.880 --> 00:50:17.880
know, the conversation. I would
love to see the conversation switch to a

708
00:50:17.960 --> 00:50:22.639
more black and white conversation in terms
of less about what's fair and equal and

709
00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:27.960
let's make sure everybody's happy, and
more about look at, look at what

710
00:50:28.079 --> 00:50:30.280
could happen? Look at the productivity
that could change, Look at the innovation,

711
00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:35.960
Look at the progress that could actually
really happen if we started getting different

712
00:50:36.000 --> 00:50:40.760
perspectives, different points of view,
and using different tools to actually attack these

713
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:45.960
real problems. Oh, there's so
much where we could talk about, and

714
00:50:46.079 --> 00:50:49.719
we're getting close to the end.
Here are two more quick questions for you.

715
00:50:50.440 --> 00:50:52.639
We started talking about this when we
talked about the millennial generation, Jamie,

716
00:50:52.719 --> 00:50:57.199
But do you think general dynamics differ
between the generations? And if so,

717
00:50:57.360 --> 00:51:00.719
how, Yeah? I mean I
definitely do. Obvious, you know,

718
00:51:01.039 --> 00:51:05.199
it's through nobody's fault is obviously.
I think we've sort of evolved in

719
00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:08.559
a good way through the generations,
which is great. I definitely have a

720
00:51:08.599 --> 00:51:14.920
different perspective on this than like my
grandfather's degree. But I think, again,

721
00:51:14.960 --> 00:51:17.639
I have so much hope with the
millennial generation. Do you think what's

722
00:51:17.679 --> 00:51:22.519
also interesting is there's been a lot
of research done not just in the characteristics

723
00:51:22.599 --> 00:51:29.079
of how millennials work and think and
communicate and what they want, but also

724
00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:32.159
in how they learn. So,
you know, and I actually talked about

725
00:51:32.199 --> 00:51:35.519
this a little bit in my book, that I think they have so much

726
00:51:35.559 --> 00:51:38.960
potential and I think the only thing
that's really standing in the way of these

727
00:51:39.039 --> 00:51:44.960
millennials becoming these incredible leaders are you
know, the ideas, having the ideas,

728
00:51:45.079 --> 00:51:49.199
and then really the leaders in front
of them taking the time to teach

729
00:51:49.280 --> 00:51:52.480
them and support them. And if
you look at if you dig more into

730
00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:57.000
that, you know, people respond
to different types of leadership. We all

731
00:51:57.039 --> 00:51:59.599
do, right, Not everyone who's
going to respond to the same type of

732
00:51:59.719 --> 00:52:02.360
leader. That's totally natural, but
by and large, a lot of the

733
00:52:02.440 --> 00:52:10.039
millennials seem to respond to a more
transformational type of leadership, which is great,

734
00:52:10.199 --> 00:52:14.920
which is amazing, and I think, you know, coincidentally, women

735
00:52:15.079 --> 00:52:20.800
have a lot of characteristics that make
them fantastic transformational leaders where they're connecting sort

736
00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:25.440
of goals and purpose with recognition and
support, and they really thrive in that

737
00:52:25.559 --> 00:52:29.480
environment. And so I think it's
even more critical than ever that we get

738
00:52:29.559 --> 00:52:32.920
the right leadership models and a variety
of different leadership models working with the millennial

739
00:52:32.960 --> 00:52:39.599
generation. Again, we had have
a holder show about that. So all

740
00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:43.960
right, well we're coming to a
close here in about a minute, Damie,

741
00:52:44.039 --> 00:52:49.400
what would you like to leave our
listeners with today, Because the main

742
00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:52.480
thing that I would say is that
I would encourage people, men and women

743
00:52:52.639 --> 00:53:00.920
to stop trying to dismiss or hide
the gender differences, especially the underdominated strengths

744
00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:02.840
at work. So and again,
this goes for both men and women,

745
00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:06.639
because I, again I do think
we're equal, but I don't think that

746
00:53:06.719 --> 00:53:10.280
we're at all the same. And
for current and future leaders, I think

747
00:53:10.360 --> 00:53:19.360
those differences should be celebrated and leveraged
because complimentary styles are always more advantageous than

748
00:53:19.400 --> 00:53:22.440
the same thing repeated over and over
again. So I guess my biggest piece

749
00:53:22.480 --> 00:53:27.880
of advice would to everybody would be
just to use your authenticity and originality to

750
00:53:27.960 --> 00:53:31.920
your advantage. And I think that
most people will see success follow It's funny

751
00:53:31.920 --> 00:53:35.320
that you said that when you were
talking, the word that kept screaming out

752
00:53:35.320 --> 00:53:38.039
at me was authenticity. So amazing
way to finish the show, Jamie,

753
00:53:38.119 --> 00:53:42.119
thank you so very much for joining
us. I'm thrilled that you crossed paths

754
00:53:42.159 --> 00:53:46.840
with me, and thank you for
showing your pass. Yeah. Fantastic solicit

755
00:53:47.280 --> 00:53:50.840
If you want to learn more about
Jamie and the work she does, visit

756
00:53:50.920 --> 00:53:54.119
her website. It's, as you
might guess, expand the convo dot Com.

757
00:53:54.559 --> 00:54:01.079
Once again, it's expand the Convo
con vot. Join us next week

758
00:54:01.079 --> 00:54:05.039
when we talk with Brett Randall,
who is the owner of Suliman's Barbecue.

759
00:54:05.199 --> 00:54:07.719
We'll talk about his entry and preparation
to the restaurant business, how and his

760
00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:12.880
team have created a purposeful culture,
and how he exercises a particular stance on

761
00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:15.760
leadership in business. See you next
week. You remember that work is at

762
00:54:15.800 --> 00:54:24.159
least one third of our life,
so let's work on purpose. We hope

763
00:54:24.159 --> 00:54:29.480
you've enjoyed this week's program. Be
sure to tune into Working on Purpose featuring

764
00:54:29.559 --> 00:54:34.119
your host Alice Cortez, every Wednesday
at six pm Eastern Time, free pm

765
00:54:34.199 --> 00:54:37.880
Pacific Time on the Voice America Empowerment
Channel. This week, find your life's

766
00:54:37.880 --> 00:54:39.079
purpose at work.