MEANINGology: A Cure for Todays Modern Day Crisis of Meaning

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortes. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working

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on Purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortes. Welcome back to

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the Working on Purpose Show. Thanks
for tuning in again this week. I'm

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your host, Alise Cortes, joining
you live from Dallas, Texas, which

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is home base for me. If
you've been tuning in for a while,

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you know this program is all about
helping people create more meaningful and purposeful lives

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and equipping leaders insight organizations to cultivate
meaning and purpose that elicits passion inspired contribution,

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innovation, and persevering performance. I
talk with my guests to draw on

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their expertise and shrom my own experience
consulting, speaking developing workforces across the globe.

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Each week. In these conversations,
I hope you walk away with something

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you can immediately put to use in
your life or your work. And if

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I can do anything to help you
along your journey, go to my website

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at a least Coortes dot com and
use the contact me feature to message me

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and let's open a conversation to see
what's going on for you and how I

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might be able to help in your
rate. I'm glad we're connected, and

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thanks for listening. Now onto this
week's program with us today is doctor Alex

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Pataco's, affectionately nicknamed Doctor Meaning,
Who is a modern day Greek philosopher and

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founder of the Global Meaning Institute,
a think tank dedicated to advancing the human

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quest for meaning in life, work, and society. He is co author

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with Elaine Dundan of Prisoners of Our
Thoughts, Victor Frankel's Principles for Discovering Meaning

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in Life and work. Patacos and
Dundon are also the co authors of the

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OPA Way Finding Joy and Meaning in
everyday life and work that is uniquely inspired

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by Greek philosophy, mythology, and
culture. They are also the co creators

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of the discipline called meaningology, the
study and practice of meaning in life,

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work, and society. Today,
we'll be talking about the crisis of meaning

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and why meaning is so important to
nurture in our lives. Meaniology parodim your

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model and how it can be utilized
by leaders and organizations to create cultures of

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meaning and help employees find more meaning
in their work. Doctor Pataco's joint is

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to day from Niagara on the Lake, Canada, a beautiful history place,

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he tells me, Doctor Pataco's welcome
to Working on Purpose. It's great to

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be with you, Lise. I've
been looking forward to this wonderful, meaningful,

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working on Purpose conversation. Me too, Me too, And I did

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devour both of your books. I
thank you so much for penning them,

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and I also want to acknowledge it's
wonderful that you have a beautiful, loving,

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and working relationship with your wife,
Eline Dundon. I think that is

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spectacular. I hope to find that
one day in my own life. So

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I revere that well, thank you
for that. I feel very blessed and

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honored as well. And I think
it's also a unique combination because, as

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you can tell from reading the books, we kind of balance our different energies

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in terms of how we convey the
message. I think that's a really important

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and unique attribute that we bring.
It's beautiful it's meaningful and beautiful. Yeah,

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thank you, You're welcome. Now, speaking of that, one of

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the things that I find fascinating Aby
getting to do the show is just really

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surfacing really important issues that really impact
people across their lives insteam of their work.

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And you are leading the meaning movement. So the first thing we probably

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need to do is define for our
listeners what you mean by meaning? So,

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what do you mean by it?
And why is it so important in

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our lives? Yeah, very good
question, the question that, as you

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can imagine, both Elaine and I
get asked all the time. I think

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most of the definitions of meaning when
people actually go there, because oftentimes what

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they'll just do is do a quick
survey of saying, do you find meaning

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in your work? Do you have
purpose in your life, or something like

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that, without really demystifying what that
concept is. Most of the people that

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seem to be defining meaning look at
it primarily as something that is significant or

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something that matters to us. And
I think that that's fine up to a

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certain extent. But I think what
Elainna I have done in our work,

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and this is primarily because our work
is really grounded in existential philosophy, probably

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more than anything else, is the
fact that we ask deeper questions, and

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the question that really brought us to
our definition of meaning is the fact that

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we are looking at things that effectively
resonate with us, which allow us to

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find our true nature, what we
call our core essence. And we typically

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know what is meaningful to us when
it's almost like the song good Vibrations by

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the Beach Boys, those listeners who
would remember that group. You know,

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sometimes we have good vibrations when we
meet someone, when we experience something.

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Other times the vibrations kind of separate
us, or we realize that that's not

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really what I'm interested in. And
so the idea of meaning and really getting

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down almost to a quantum and metaphysical
level is really what connects with us on

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a deeper, deeper plane. And
I guess in that sense, it's something

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that allows us to determine what is
meaningful by in many ways asking the opposite

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question what is meaningless? And if
you ask people what is meaningless in their

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work and their life, it's very
easy for them to come up with a

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laundry list. It's probably harder in
some cases to initially start out about what's

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meaningful? But if you look at
the meaninglessness question, you can start to

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convert that into something and say,
Okay, what do I have to do

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to make my job, my work, my relationship where I live more meaning

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less meaningless and ultimately more meaningful.
M hmmmm, I like that. I

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don't know that I've actually heard that
method of distinguishing meaning, but I like

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it. And then for our listeners
to understand those people who maybe scratching here,

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I'm like, why are we having
a show about meaning? Why is

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meaning so important our lives? Well, you know, we've done a lot

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of of course, now, this
is something that goes back a lot of

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years. I mean, both Elaine
and I have not only done research.

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We've worked in the business world.
We've worked in governments, We've worked in

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a lot of different organizations. We've
worked for organizations, We've worked with people

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literally in all stages and walks of
life across culturally. And I think one

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of the things that's really important to
us is that some of the work that

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we did, say go back ten
even just ten years ago. We were

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focused on how to help organizations become
more innovative and actually Lamblade another book called

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The Seeds of Innovation, which is
really a practical guide to how to create

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a meaningful culture, innovative culture,
how to create opportunities for people to actually

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be more creative and be able to
take action and so forth, so that

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they can bring more innovation to their
business, to the organization. And over

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the years of working in the innovation
arena, and we actually taught the first

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integrated course in innovation management here in
Canada at University of Toronto, is the

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fact that we found that innovation would
kick off with a bang and then after

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a short amount of time we sort
of sizzle and fizzle and then eventually it

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would just stop. And so we've
really tried to look at, well,

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what is it how do you have
to sustain these great innovation initiatives over time?

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And most of the work that we
did we realized, well, you

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know, those things are not extrinsically
motivated. Necessarily, there are many things

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that happen that are more intrinsic and
these are the kinds of things. Again

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that relates to the meaning question,
the existential question. So if your budget

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gets cut, or if somebody say
doesn't like an idea that you present to

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your your supervisor, your boss.
A lot of times people just retreat and

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then they don't want to come back
with another idea, or the culture itself

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is so toxic that people say,
well, why should I even try to

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innovate in this company when it really
doesn't matter to me? And so those

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kinds of questions, which became really
existential questions to us, became our driver.

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We're looking at what are those those
primary intrinsic motivators that keep people going

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when times are tough, not just
when times are good, but when times

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are tough. And the more we
got into that, the more it brought

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us to the meaning questions. Obviously, as we'll get into this, doctor

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frankl the psychiatrist, was a mentor
and he actually encouraged us to write our

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one book, Prisoners and Results.
And so the meaning, the search for

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meaning in everyday life and work became
kind of almost a it was almost like

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branded in our soul if you will. We said, look, we have

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to share. How can people find
deeper meaning in their life which will help

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them in their workplace environment? How
do we help people find meaning in their

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work which will help them keep going
even when times get tough? And as

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we all know, times do eventually
get tough. They do. Indeed,

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in fact, that does bring me
to the next question here, Alex,

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and I love the way that you
presenced all that for us because it's so

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important people understand why this meaning stuff
is so critical. It gets to the

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motivation piece. So I'm going to
guess that a lot of people don't really

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realize that there is a meaning movement
afoot. So let's talk about the crisis

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and meaning we're both dedicated to eradicating. Help us understand how vast this problem

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is and how it's manifesting our lives. Yeah, well, you know,

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the meaning movement is not something that
probably we could say we obviously started.

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I mean, meaning is as we
look at even going back to the pre

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Socratic philosophers and ancient Greece, they
were looking at, okay, how do

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we live the good life? And
the good life to us has become the

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meaningful life. It's not just about
materialism, it's not just about having more

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influence and power over other people.
It's not just about money. And so

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some of these questions that again these
are existential meaning questions, go back,

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you know, millennium. But let's
just go to the more more current periods

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they go back to the to the
twentieth century, so or at least closer

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to where we are now. Victor
Fruncle, who's really a pioneer meaning in

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psychotherapy and psychiatry, he back,
you know, around the time of World

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War two, identified what's referred what
he referred to as a mass neurotic bryad.

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And basically that triad consists of three
characteristics which he referred to as societal

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symptoms of problems that we need to
needed to and again realize that this is

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going back to World War two around
that period. One of them is addiction,

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the second one is aggression, and
the third one is depression. And

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those three societal symptoms that were witnessed
during that time period that doctor Froncle was

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writing about them and speaking about them. Think about it today, Are they

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less or are they more? And
as we all know and anybody who's listening

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to this conversation that we're having,
that addiction has not gone away, if

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anything, where there are more types
of addiction. It's much more prevalent today

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than it was in doctor Frankle's time. And what he probably couldn't even imagine

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some of the addictions that we have
today, such as the Internet, addiction

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and other types of things. Aggression, I mean, aggression is happening all

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over from not just in areas and
families and domestic violence. We're talking about

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aggression, you know, when we
talk about say the antifa polarization political movements

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of today, We've got violence on
a geopolitical scale. We've got all kinds

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of things that are happening on the
aggression side. That again, we're not

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just talking about going postal, We're
not just talking about gun violence, We're

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not just talking about problems and bullying. All those things are part of this

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speaking thing. Many of these things
didn't exist at a time when, at

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least they weren't evident when doctor Froncle
first talked about them, and then depression.

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Depression has certainly has not gone away. So just if we look at

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those particular elements that were the mass
neurotic triad that were articulated back in the

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days when Victor Froncle first wrote about
them, those things have been exacerbated over

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these last several decades to the point
where again, these are societal ills.

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And so to say that we can
only treat aggression, addiction, and depression

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with drugs is an illusion, that's
a fallacy, and it's really not the

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kind of thinking that we want to
espouse and share with people. We want

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to help build people's capacity to address
examples like the mass neurotic triad using a

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more humanistic approach rather than one that
just assumes that we can reduce human beings

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into their component parts and do surgery. You know we can do. I

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used to work on the Mental health
South mental health system years ago, where

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we still used to do lobotomies.
I mean, do we want to do

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that? Do we want to implant
electrodes and people's brains and do we want

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to just fill them up with drugs
all the time? Ian Is that really

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solving and resolving societal sills? I
don't think it is, and I think

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that most people listening would agree with
that. And so the idea is that

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where are some of the bigger issues
we how can we resolve them? How

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can we get to the core?
And the core is the core of meeting.

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People need to know that their life
matters, that their work matters,

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with their relationships matter, and that
people care about them. And this is

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again, this is not just touchy
feely stuff. This is this is a

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humanistic approach, which we even learned
was an important driver for innovation in business

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in governments. M h, I
could tell help you. Sorry for at

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least you have to interrupt it.
I'm a recovering academic in a way,

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and so the idea is that I
could could This is basically a sixteen week

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course that I could share with you
right now. I know you don't have

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to interrupt me. Okay, I'm
hanging on every word. You're right,

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I got so many questions I got
to get out of you before we get

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off the air, because I want
to share this with the listeners. Let's

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do this really quick. First,
I'm going to say that what I heard

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in that was really catalyzing and developing
human agency for people to be able to

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really create for themselves the lives that
are meaningful and not rely on things like

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surgery, drugs and lobotomies, if
you will, to handle their problems so

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completely with you on that, and
that's only that's only part of the issue.

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I mean, we're talking about the
crisis. The crisis is looming ahead

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that for example, is going to
be affected by the so called developments and

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technology. So as we move into
AI and some robotics and so forth.

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What are we talking about it in
the case of working on purpose? To

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what extent are we in fact and
are replacing them beings with machines with AI?

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And what is that? What are
the implications of that on society and

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on human beings. These are the
kinds of things that Alain and I are

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trying to address in the work that
we do through the Global Being Institute.

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I would love to be part of
that in any way because I'm dedicated to

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that as well. In fact,
I'm going to have a conversation on here

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with somebody else about how we can
help catalyze human beings to better handle themselves

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and keep themselves in pace on pace
with AI and ourf intelligence. I personally

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don't want to work in a world
where I don't have a job because I

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can't keep up with ourficitional intelligence and
robotics, et cetera. So I think

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we need to be much more thoughtful
about the decisions we make as leaders as

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how we employ those technologies. Absolutely, So let's talk about something that I

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know a lot of our listeners can
really relate to here, and let's just

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do it brief. If we can
because I want to get to a quick

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break, But that's engagement. So
what we're talking about here, this absence

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of meaning or lack of meaning,
translates in many ways to the low engagement

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we see in organizations. And you
and I both know know those numbers.

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But for our listeners, according to
Gallop, only thirty percent of the US

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is fully engaged in their work,
fifty two percent are disengaged, and eighteen

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percent are actively disengaged. So we
can start to really talk about how this

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becomes an issue to address. But
first you say in your book, and

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I completely agree that the statement that
business and engagement services are focused on the

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wrong areas entirely is so important.
Can you say just a little bit about

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that and then we'll take a quick
break. Yeah. Well, you know,

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a number of years ago, there
was a book that came out that

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I'm sure you're familiar with, called
The Power of Full Engagement, and I

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would change that title. Actually have
done that in doing some keynote addresses in

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the past where have a change the
title from the Power of Full Engagement to

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the Power of meaning full Engagement.
Because we can have engagement by having dictators.

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I mean, we appear in North
Korea, you're going to be engaged,

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because if you're not engaged in doing
whatever you're supposed to be doing in

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that society, that particular culture in
society, you know, you may find

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out that you know, you're going
to be in prisoned or whatever. So

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the idea of just engaging you can
have an authoritarian CEO or boss and say,

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look, you know you're fired if
you don't do these things. That

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type of engagement is not the kind
of engagement we're talking about. We want

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it to be meaning centric, and
so the idea behind engagement with a meaning

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focus is really helping. This is
not just the responsibility of leaders and managers,

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but it's also the individual workers,
whoever that worker may be, as

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respond personal responsibility is to find the
deeper meaning in their work, why they're

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doing the deeper meaning, and the
relationships they have with their coworkers, with

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their customers, with their clients,
with their students, with their patients,

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with their supervisors. So it's not
just Many of the engagement research that we've

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been reviewing really kind of put the
blame a lot on leaders, and they

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kind of ignore the fact that it's
a personal and collective responsibility to find the

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kind of meaning that we're talking about. You just can't pass the buck over

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to somebody else and say, at
least, you know, help me find

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meaning, help me become engaged.
There's only so much you can do.

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I have to do things as well. I have to meet you part of

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the way. And so this is
a major issue for us, is how

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do we then take some of the
root causes of disengagement and really look at

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how then can we convert that and
reduce anxiety, reduce some of those questions

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like aggression in the workplace, like
addiction, you know, depression and so

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forth, Just like we talked about
on a societal level, how do we

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do that in such a way that
people are engaged. There are many people

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that come to work and we know
this. We've observed this where I mean

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literally, I've walked into many companies
where it's like a scene from the Sixth

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the movie The Sixth Sense. I
see dead people. I know they're everywhere.

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Yes, yeah, And so the
idea is how do we change that

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and why is it that there are
some organizations, some companies, some in

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working environments where people are really they
come alive, and you can see that

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they're proud of what they do.
They're proud. I mean even if their

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their budgets are cut or the competition
is much more strenuous than say they'd like,

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they still you still come into that
place and they want And this is

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which we'll get into. Why the
open Wight became an important ingredient in our

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meaning work is that they really focus
on hospitality, they focus on customer relations,

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they focus on building teams. They
create a team spirit that is that's

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almost like you know team spirits in
a in an NBA basketball team. You

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know that's I happen to be near
Toronto where we just won the NBA championship,

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you know where they really can feel
that energy. And this is a

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key part. This is a part
of the metaphysical element of meaning. Is

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that meaning goes back and I'll get
into this and maybe after the break where

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meaning has a spiritual component and it's
a metaphysical element that helps drive people.

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And you can see it. You
can see whether people are enjoying their work,

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they're enjoying their life. They passionate, enthusiastic about what they do,

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what they're doing. You can see
it in their eyes. You can see

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it in their postures and do they
take care of themselves so they care about

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each other. And I think that's
the kind of thing. So the engagement

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that we're talking about, it's almost
like trying to define you know, maybe

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concepts like pornography. You know,
I don't can't define it, but I

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know when I see it type of
thing. Yeah, like me engage a

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second. Hold on, We got
to take a quick break here. I

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love everything you're saying, and yes, the reason I wanted to have you

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in the show is because you are
helping pull us into a new space that

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we need to go into desperately.
So that's part of the reason I wanted

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to have you in the show.
So first break here. I'm your host,

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Alice Cortez. We've been on the
air with doctor Alex Pataco's who is

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the founder of Global Meaning Institute.
He is also the co author with Elaine

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Dundant of Prisoners of Our Thoughts Victor
Frankel's Principles for Discovering Meaning and Life and

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Work, and also they are the
authors of the ope Away Finding Joy and

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Meeting in Everyday Life and Work.
Patacos and Dundon are also the co creators

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of the discipline, meniology, the
study and practice of meaning in life,

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work in society. He joges to
day from Niagara on the Lake in Canada.

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We'll be right back. Stay with
us. Elise Cortes is a speaker

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and engagement and development catalyst. She
designs and delivers professional development, leadership and

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engagement workshops and can bring her expertise
to your organization. She will help ignite

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meaningful development within your workforce that will
increase employee engagement, performance and retention.

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To learn more or to invite Elise
to speak to your organization, please visit

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her at www dot Elise Coortes dot
com. She would welcome the opportunity to

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help get your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with Elise

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Cortes. To reach our program today, send an email to a lease Ali

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at a least Coortes dot com.
Now back to working on purpose. Thanks

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for staying with us, and welcome
back to working on purpose. If you're

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just joining us. My guest is
doctor Alex Patacos, who is the modern

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day Greek philosopher and founder of the
Global Meaning Institute, a think tank dedicated

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to advancing the human quest for meaning
in life, work, and Society.

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He is co author with the Lane
Dundant of Prisoners of Our Thoughts, Victor

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Frankel's Principles for Discovering Meaning in Life
and Work, and also the two of

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them authored the Opah Way Finding Joy
and Meaning in everyday life and work.

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I'm your host, Alis Cortez,
So doctor Pataco's I really want to make

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sure that we can get into this
next segment, your meaning ology discipline.

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But before we do that, because
for many listeners who aren't in the space

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like you and I are, meaning
can be squishy, and I think it's

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important that we talk about that.
The two of you, you and Elaine,

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have created three tests designed to gauge
a respond to its current level of

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thinking and feeling regarding the state of
their meaning and their life and their work,

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as well as within the order.
I mean, that is just so,

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it's just so crisp say more about
those three tests and how they work.

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Okay, well, well, let
let me first preface what I want

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to say about the test that we've
developed by saying that one, it is

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interesting that you use the word squishy
or as other people will talk about the

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you know, the soft side of
work, the soft side of life,

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and we're really, as we think
about it with what we said before break,

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as technology begins to take more and
more over more and more of our

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lives and so forth, including the
hard side of work, it's going to

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become even more important for us to
focus on the soft side, or the

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human side. And so this has
really been our goal and meaning has been

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kind of the foundation of humanizing the
workplace for us, humanizing the way we

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relate to each other as human beings
overall, which is unfortunately something that we

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have to do. But you know, we've seen to be getting away from

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a lot of those dimensions of what
makes us really human. And then we've

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also been kind of focusing on trying
to figure out how to not just humanize

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the workplace and work, but also
in a way spiritualize it by elevating human

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spirit in the workplace. And so
that's been those are kind of drivers,

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you know that that really that we
come at it mainly because of our own

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search for meeting based on our own
zigzag paths that E. Laine and I've

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had. So what we've done is
that because we really have three uh kind

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of almost a three pronged approach,
three legs to our stool, if you

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will, That became meniology. One
of the earliest one that started all this

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was what I mentioned before, that
we have both had an interest in innovation,

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and how do you manage how do
you cultivate innovation in a way that

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not just an organizational level, but
how do we innovate our lives? You

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know, when you're stuck in a
job, when you're stuck in a relationship.

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You know, people sometimes don't realize
that they actually are in the driver's

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seat and they can innovate their way
to a new to a solution, a

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creative solution. The second one is
our passion for Victor Francle's wisdom, his

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system of local therapy and existential analysis. And then the third leg of our

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stool is really the existential h and
ancient Greek philosophy that drove really the human

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condition, and so our research and
our writing, our articles and so forth.

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We both write. For for example, psychology today is really built on

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those three pillars, I guess or
stools of the of the of the of

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the legs of the stool, and
from that we don't want to we didn't

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really want to develop tests per se
because even though we're both the behavioral scientists,

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we're really more philosophers in terms of
creating a philosophy of life, a

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philosophy of work that we felt would
be much more beneficial to human beings.

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But because particularly Americans and Canadians,
North Americans and Northern Europeans are really big

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on scorecards and they want to know
where they are, the idea of developing

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an assessment tool became something that we
got interested in, not because it yelish

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is the humanizing of the work that
we do, but because it was a

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way to get people interested in it
so that then we can engage in authentic

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dialogue and then talk about the deeper
meaning quote unquote behind any assessment results that

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we might find. And so the
idea was is that how do we create

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these tools? Where do they come
from? And they really come from a

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formula that we developed coming out of
our years of experience working around the Greek

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philosophy, the Greek mythology and culture. Work that became and it was written

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up in the book The Open Way, and we looked at those elements that

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came out of that work. We
looked at that in contrast and in comparison

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to Victor Francle's wisdom because we are
also very well versed in understanding his existential

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philosophy around his system of local therapy, and we tied those two together.

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We look to integrate those and in
fact, the formula became the assessment tools

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became not only a a way to
distill our work, but it was also

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a way to simplify in some respects
without marginalizing doctor Francle's work, because part

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of my mission in life is not
only to advance doctor foncles his life and

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legacy, but it was also to
engage in a way that I can help

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bring it to the mainstream audience in
a different way. All right. I

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didn't want to bring it in as
psychotherapy as something you know what I mean,

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because you know when you're going into
the workplace and the first thing that

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people just say, well, I
don't need therapy, why are you here

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for? Well, we're trying to
help elevate meaning in an organization. And

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as even doctor Francle would say,
the question about meaning, the human questions

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about meaning are really not symptoms of
illness. They're really what makes us human.

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I mean, that's what distinguishes us
from other living entities that we can

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actually ask questions, existential questions about
our own state of being. Why do

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we hear, where do we want
to be? Those kinds of things,

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you know, what's our potential and
how do we realize our potential? And

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so those are the kinds of questions
that became health oriented. As a matter

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of fact, local therapy can be
looked at not just as a therapeutic intervention,

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but it really is a health intervention. It's something it's not just therapy

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through meaning, it's health through meaning. And so we really wanted to see

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this is how do you build healthy
organizations, how do you build healthy communities,

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healthy societies, healthy families, healthy
neighborhoods, et cetera. And so

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we went back to Greece, and
again I'm giving you really a much more

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than a twenty five word synopsis here, and we found that there were three

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core elements that drove the Greek culture
in the work that we did there.

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And we did this starting pre crisis. This is before the global economic crisis,

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this is before the refugee crisis.
And then we followed it through and

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we found that the three things that
seemed to drive the Greek the Greek people's

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ability to deal with the stresses that
they were facing as they entered into the

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crisis was one that they had a
major authentic connection with each other and a

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major connection with their local traditional village
life. They had connections in ways where

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they had they honored each other,
honors a big, big, big factor,

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and they had a tremendous amount of
ability to connect in ways that Elaine

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and I said, well, I
wish we could do that in North America

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because many of the things that happened
in North America didn't relate in the same

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way. We said, if we
could take bottle that ingredient and bring it

407
00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:30.160
back to North America in some way, we can help reduce stress. We

408
00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:33.480
can help people relate to each other
in much more peaceful, healthy ways.

409
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:40.960
So connecting which became O and open
it's connect connecting meaningfully with others others became

410
00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:44.920
the O and then we The second
element was that they were engaged with a

411
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:48.359
deeper purpose. The purpose you know, uh, you know, we all

412
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:49.920
heard this saying that where there's a
will, there's a way. Well,

413
00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:53.440
to paraphrase doctor Franckle, we believe
that where there's a purpose, there is

414
00:28:53.480 --> 00:28:59.000
a will and so the idea here
is that that we wanted to help people

415
00:28:59.039 --> 00:29:02.000
I articulate with their purposes, which
is the large part of what you're doing

416
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:06.519
in the show and your work.
And so P became a core element of

417
00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:08.680
our formula for meeting, if you
will. And then the third one,

418
00:29:08.680 --> 00:29:12.559
which is also very closely related to
local therapy in doctor Frankle's work, is

419
00:29:12.599 --> 00:29:18.240
the fact that the Greeks are very, very open and transparent and authentic about

420
00:29:18.599 --> 00:29:23.720
expressing themselves about their attitude and life. And this is kind of this is

421
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:27.279
where the word if you take O
P and as as an acronym here,

422
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:30.079
but that's you put it together.
It's a word in a common Greek word.

423
00:29:30.279 --> 00:29:34.799
It's oh bah, all right,
And so you can't say oh bah

424
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:38.519
without you know, elevating your spirit
without you know. And so the idea

425
00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:41.000
behind a lot of money of the
Greeks, unlike some of the folks,

426
00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:45.119
say in some other cultures that are
much more close and armored in terms of

427
00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:48.440
how they express themselves, the Greeks
embraced life, the good times, the

428
00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:52.480
bad times, the joys and sorrows
and so forth, with an attitude that

429
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:56.640
was very resilient and very and also
very appreciative. So we took the attitude

430
00:29:56.640 --> 00:30:00.000
element, we took the purpose element, we took the other element, and

431
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:06.160
those three comprise the model, the
power of the new paradigm for meaning that

432
00:30:06.200 --> 00:30:08.880
we articulated in the spouse, in
the open way, and then that model

433
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:14.759
then was further enhanced and we that's
when we started to go into the empirical

434
00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:21.920
base of developing assessment tools that allowed
us to do quote unquote training capacity building

435
00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:26.039
around the meaning questions that people would
have either individually on a personal level,

436
00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:30.720
or in an organizational group setting,
or you know, any type of group.

437
00:30:30.359 --> 00:30:33.960
And that became kind of the foundation
for doing that. But I want

438
00:30:34.000 --> 00:30:38.119
to make it clear that the assessment
tools in and of themselves are no good

439
00:30:38.519 --> 00:30:42.559
if you don't engage people on a
humanistic level where they absolutely you know what

440
00:30:42.559 --> 00:30:47.240
I mean, and so absolutely so
give somebody a score, I mean,

441
00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:49.200
that's not enough. We got to
know. Let's let's let's let's do a

442
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:52.559
deep dive. Let's find out are
you weak here on purpose? Let's talk

443
00:30:52.599 --> 00:30:56.200
about that. And then you know, as you know from reading the books,

444
00:30:56.319 --> 00:30:57.480
we have a lot of different things, a lot of path we call

445
00:30:57.480 --> 00:31:03.799
them pathways, uh to understand practices
to understand how do you do a deep

446
00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:07.519
dive in purpose, how do you
do a deep dive in your connections with

447
00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:10.720
others? And how do you do
a deep dive in terms of improving your

448
00:31:10.759 --> 00:31:15.240
attitude. All three of those components
together comprise our formula for meeting. So

449
00:31:15.359 --> 00:31:17.880
when you look at that, and
again, I'm not trying in any way

450
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:22.319
to minimize the value of working on
purpose your program. But purpose is only

451
00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:25.759
part of the formula meaning, it
is not meaning. Purpose and meaning are

452
00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:29.400
not the same. And so it's
important because there are many people who never

453
00:31:29.480 --> 00:31:32.559
have They either die prematurely, you
know, they could die something. They

454
00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:36.759
could die prematurely. They can die
before births, they can die at a

455
00:31:36.839 --> 00:31:38.359
young age. They can die as
a result of civil strife, war,

456
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:44.000
disease, you name it. Their
life still has meaning even if they never

457
00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:48.119
were able to achieve a purpose per
se that we would like to say is

458
00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:51.279
something that we'd all ideally like to
be able to do. They never realize

459
00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:56.400
their full potential in that sense.
But at the same time, we firmatively,

460
00:31:56.720 --> 00:32:00.839
as Victor Fronkle did, that all
life has meaning up to your very

461
00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:02.200
last breath. So in fact,
they could be way beyond our us.

462
00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:06.000
But because we have no idea what
happens after that. And so the idea

463
00:32:06.039 --> 00:32:09.960
here is that meaning is the all
encompassing. It's almost like if you look

464
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:15.920
at a frozen lake, all right, and if you look at it lake

465
00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:17.720
closely, there are little holes and
some of the holes, alright, all

466
00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:22.160
go down deep. Some of them
only go to hit the surface re lightly.

467
00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:24.720
All of us are on a path. Ultimately, our path is to

468
00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:29.720
get down to the body of water
that basically connects us all which is under

469
00:32:29.720 --> 00:32:31.880
the ice, all right. And
so each of us, some of us

470
00:32:31.880 --> 00:32:37.359
are more evolved than others in terms
of more more conscious of what we're doing.

471
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:40.039
Some people have to repeat lessons over
and over and over again it until

472
00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:44.119
we get the insight. But the
idea here is, these are the things

473
00:32:44.119 --> 00:32:46.079
we're trying to do, and we're
trying to use our assessment tools, or

474
00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:51.440
we have workbooks, we have a
coaching program, we have you know,

475
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:54.880
a journal that people can maintain so
that they can keep track of to what

476
00:32:55.000 --> 00:33:00.279
extent are they navigating their life in
a way that they're improving their own their

477
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:04.559
connections with others, their p their
engagement with purpose, and their a their

478
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:08.559
ability to embrace life with attitude.
Those are the things that in a nutshell

479
00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:14.559
present Meaningology. Yeah, beautifully done, Alex. I knew that we were

480
00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:16.200
being very aggressive in the question here
because I wanted to give as much as

481
00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:20.960
of you and Elaine as I could. So hold that thought. We're going

482
00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:22.240
to grab our last break, because
after the break, I want to talk

483
00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:25.880
about how we can apply this insight
organizations and in leadership. That's the next

484
00:33:25.880 --> 00:33:30.160
piece. I'm your host, Alice
Cortez. We're on the air with doctor

485
00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:32.519
Alex Patacos, who is the founder
of the Global Meaning Institute. He is

486
00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:37.519
the co author with Elaine Dundon of
Prisoners of Our Thoughts, Victor Frankel's Principles

487
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:40.400
for Discovering Meaning in Life and Work, and also they authored the Opah Way

488
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:45.480
Finding Joy and Meaning in everyday life
and work. They are the co creators

489
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:49.200
of the discipline Meaningology, the study
and practice of meaning and life work in

490
00:33:49.279 --> 00:34:07.199
society. We'll be right back,
Stay with us. Alise Cortes is a

491
00:34:07.199 --> 00:34:14.079
speaker and engagement and development catalyst.
She designs and delivers professional development, leadership

492
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:17.840
and engagement workshops and can bring her
expertise to your organization. She will help

493
00:34:17.880 --> 00:34:23.760
ignite meaningful development within your workforce that
will increase employee engagement, performance and retention.

494
00:34:24.119 --> 00:34:28.719
To learn more or to invite Elise
to speak to your organization, please

495
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:34.480
visit her at www dot Elisecortes dot
com. She would welcome the opportunity to

496
00:34:34.519 --> 00:34:44.360
help get your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with Elise

497
00:34:44.440 --> 00:34:50.000
Cortes. To reach our program today, send an email to a lease Alise

498
00:34:50.400 --> 00:34:58.159
at Aleasecortes dot com. Now back
to working on purpose. Thanks Christine Leus.

499
00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:00.119
Welcome back to working on purpose.
You're just tuning in. My guest

500
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:04.639
is doctor Alex Patacos, who is
a modern day Greek philosopher and founder of

501
00:35:04.639 --> 00:35:07.400
the Global Meaning Institute, which is
a think tank dedicated to advancing the human

502
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:10.719
quest for meaning in life, work
in society. He is co author with

503
00:35:10.760 --> 00:35:15.119
Elaine Dundan of Prisoners of Our Thoughts
Victor Frankel's Principles for Discovering Meaning and Life

504
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:20.599
and Work, and also they co
author together The OPA Way Finding Joy and

505
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:23.400
Meaning in everyday life and work.
Patacos and Dundon are the coreaders of the

506
00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:28.920
discipline of meaningology, the study and
practice of meaning and life work in society.

507
00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:31.199
I'm your host, Alice Cortes.
So for this last segment, I

508
00:35:31.239 --> 00:35:36.159
wanted to give our listeners Alex the
chance to really start to apply this stuff

509
00:35:36.199 --> 00:35:37.719
inside organizations. Before the break,
you talked a little bit about how they

510
00:35:37.719 --> 00:35:43.440
could applied individually, which is great, and you also mentioned in an earlier

511
00:35:43.440 --> 00:35:47.880
segment the importance of that in meaning
culture. Within a meaning culture, all

512
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:52.000
employees must realize that they are an
integral part of and responsible for creating the

513
00:35:52.000 --> 00:35:57.039
meaning center culture that they're part of. And I completely endorse that. I

514
00:35:57.119 --> 00:36:00.639
love that that sort of adds some
human agency and it also removes the idea

515
00:36:00.679 --> 00:36:04.599
that it's all about it's all on
the leaders and the organizations to create that.

516
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:07.559
So would you just say a few
more words about the individual piece of

517
00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:13.000
this. Yeah, well, you
know, it's it's very important for everybody

518
00:36:13.079 --> 00:36:19.159
to appreciate that culture is something that
is co created. You know, we

519
00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:24.239
all, ultimately, how we practice
our daily lives, whether it's at home

520
00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:29.559
or whether it's at work, ultimately
is a contribution one way or the other

521
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:35.719
to whatever culture we're trying to ideally
work within or live within. And so

522
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:38.440
if we are not nice to our
neighbors. I mean, that changes our

523
00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:44.440
neighborhood culture. If we are disrespectful
at work, even if we're not,

524
00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:47.440
you know, the CEO or the
senior manager, that has an impact on

525
00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:52.960
the quote unquote culture. Culture.
One of the many definitions of culture is

526
00:36:52.960 --> 00:36:59.559
that it really revolves around shared learned
behavior, knowledge, behavior, and attitudes.

527
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:04.840
To the extent that we can share
and develop a common understanding of the

528
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:08.639
practices the knowledge that we'd like to
have, say in the workplace, then

529
00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:13.599
that's at least us a good starting
point. And that's where we really need

530
00:37:13.639 --> 00:37:17.480
to get into some form of authentic
dialogue in order to engage people in a

531
00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:22.280
meaningful way so that they can actually
feel that they're part of the culture.

532
00:37:22.119 --> 00:37:25.880
And so when you look at more
than some of the recent leaders who are

533
00:37:27.239 --> 00:37:29.599
probably well known in the business world, I mean, for example, there

534
00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:32.800
was not too long ago a Forbes
article written by Jack Welch, the former

535
00:37:34.079 --> 00:37:40.119
CEO of GE and he basically put
out a call to have that one of

536
00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:45.119
the most important core competencies of a
leader is really to be the chief meaning

537
00:37:45.119 --> 00:37:51.000
officer, and that their role is
to help people people that they work with

538
00:37:51.159 --> 00:37:55.119
find meaning in their work. That's
a leadership challenge. There've been others.

539
00:37:55.119 --> 00:38:00.840
I mean, there was We wrote
about a person who was the former former

540
00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:06.920
head of the Medicaid Medicare program the
United States who felt that it wasn't enough

541
00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:09.239
just to do report cards and track
performance, et cetera, et cetera,

542
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:14.559
that the real magic of leadership was
in helping people find meaning. So we're

543
00:38:14.599 --> 00:38:20.159
starting to see in a growing awareness
that the meaning question, particularly as we

544
00:38:20.199 --> 00:38:22.679
look at the changes that are happening
in the workplace, the changes that are

545
00:38:22.679 --> 00:38:28.519
happening in technology, that people need
to find something other than h you know,

546
00:38:28.679 --> 00:38:30.679
extrinsic motivators. It's not enough to
get more money. It's not enough

547
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:35.480
because we're going to we're going to
start seeing so many changes just on the

548
00:38:35.480 --> 00:38:38.760
technological front that that could do damage
to the cultures. So the cultures have

549
00:38:38.840 --> 00:38:43.639
to become more humanistic. They have
to focus on understanding what are the key

550
00:38:43.719 --> 00:38:47.639
drivers that will allow people to get
along, to be healthy, to be

551
00:38:47.679 --> 00:38:52.760
resilient, to stay engaged, even
to be innovative. And our belief is

552
00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:55.559
and this is the belief that goes
all the way back to the writings to

553
00:38:55.599 --> 00:39:00.840
the to the ancient Greek philosopher's writings
is in Victor Farnkle as well. Is

554
00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:05.639
that meaning is that primary starting,
that starting place for all this to happen.

555
00:39:06.199 --> 00:39:10.239
And there's where the open Way and
the open formula which now comprises the

556
00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:15.000
foundation of meaningology comes into play.
Mm hmm. So let me just say

557
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:17.920
it for the benef early listeners who
haven't read the two books like I have,

558
00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:22.760
I want to really present something for
our listeners as a possibility for you.

559
00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:25.119
So those of you who are currently
leaders or who are aspiring to be

560
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:30.199
leaders, imagine that you call yourself
the chief meaning officer, and your job

561
00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:34.079
is as the leader, your number
one job is to champion meaning in the

562
00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:37.760
organization, which will drive engagement and
resilience, health and wellbeing, and performance

563
00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:42.639
and innovation to the highest levels.
Imagine having that job and walking in So

564
00:39:43.079 --> 00:39:45.519
just wanted for our listeners who haven't
read both of these books just to see

565
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:51.960
that crispness of possibility for themselves.
And so to finish, go ahead,

566
00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:53.519
I was to have you talk about
the open way and how to kind of

567
00:39:53.559 --> 00:39:58.079
maybe develop that in organizations. Right, let me let me give you just

568
00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:02.039
a few few examples just to kind
of put it context. And this is

569
00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:07.440
not just for Greeks. Even though
the foundation of this came out of a

570
00:40:07.480 --> 00:40:09.159
Greek experience, I happen to be
as you can help my last name,

571
00:40:09.320 --> 00:40:15.000
I'm of Greek heritage. I'm very
proud Greek Americans. So you know this

572
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:16.960
is not something though that is only
for Greeks. This is you know,

573
00:40:17.239 --> 00:40:22.400
if anybody who's listening saw the movie
My Big Factory Wedding, the reason we

574
00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:24.519
all resonated with it is because it
was very universal in its application. We

575
00:40:24.519 --> 00:40:28.159
could all relate in some way to
that family. Well, this is the

576
00:40:28.199 --> 00:40:30.679
same thing we'd like to say about
the Open Way and meaningology. This is

577
00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:35.880
something that these are universal values.
These are things that go and we practice

578
00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:39.119
this in many different cultures. So
we know that this works not just in

579
00:40:39.960 --> 00:40:45.599
Western society in North America, but
it's been applicable all around the world.

580
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:47.760
So let's just take others for example, and we talk about others. We're

581
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:51.840
talking about connecting authentically, which is
the way of connecting meaning to you with

582
00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:54.199
others. So think about it in
the work context, all right, One

583
00:40:54.239 --> 00:41:00.360
of our practices in the open Way
is, for example, connect with the

584
00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:02.440
village. Okay. The reason that
comes to the village is because we're talking

585
00:41:02.480 --> 00:41:06.800
about how do people in traditional Greek
villages relate to each other? What are

586
00:41:06.800 --> 00:41:08.840
the characteristics of a true village.
Think about it for a second. How

587
00:41:08.840 --> 00:41:12.880
many of us in our life have
heard the concept we live in a global

588
00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:15.239
village or how many of us heard
this? People say, oh, it

589
00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:17.639
takes it takes a village to raise
a child, but we don't treat each

590
00:41:17.639 --> 00:41:22.159
other as villagers. And so part
of the challenge of being a person,

591
00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:24.599
either in an organization as an employee, as an associate, or whether you're

592
00:41:24.639 --> 00:41:29.440
the leader, is that to what
extent is your organization, your workplace like

593
00:41:29.440 --> 00:41:31.920
a village? And if it's not, what can you do to help contribute

594
00:41:31.920 --> 00:41:35.760
to making it more so? I
mean just being able to say, you

595
00:41:35.760 --> 00:41:38.719
know, good morning to people,
just being able to listen to them in

596
00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:45.280
a way that is authentically active listening, as opposed to just passing by and

597
00:41:45.320 --> 00:41:50.119
not really caring what's bothering them who
they are. I'll give you an example

598
00:41:50.280 --> 00:41:53.559
of that. We probably all have
heard of the concept managing by wandering around

599
00:41:53.679 --> 00:42:00.639
mbwa, right, okay, And
I've done enough keynote speeches where I've actually

600
00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:04.880
on stage have kind of walked across
the stage, pointing out to members of

601
00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:07.360
the audience and saying, here's a
good example of managing by wandering around at

602
00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:10.199
a tip of organization, keep up
the good work, whatever it is,

603
00:42:10.239 --> 00:42:15.679
whoever you are. It's basically showing
that the manager, the leader, you

604
00:42:15.719 --> 00:42:16.840
know, is saying, Okay,
I want you to work hard for me,

605
00:42:17.159 --> 00:42:20.280
but I really have no idea who
you are. I don't know.

606
00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:22.840
You've been here for twenty five years
and you're in the cubicle just down the

607
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:24.840
hall, and I have no idea
who you are. I mean, that

608
00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:29.199
is not going to create a village, right, And so the idea is

609
00:42:29.239 --> 00:42:32.199
that what can we do to create
connections between people through the village. What

610
00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:37.000
can we do the same thing.
There's another practice we have in the under

611
00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:39.800
in the open way on hospitality.
The Greeks are very well known for their

612
00:42:39.800 --> 00:42:45.360
hospitality and being caring for people.
Well, many people in our society in

613
00:42:45.400 --> 00:42:52.559
western Northwestern in North America are really
focused more on the transactions that take place

614
00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:55.480
in an organization. You go to
a restaurant, for example, you go

615
00:42:55.519 --> 00:42:58.559
to the store, I mean,
you know, can I help you?

616
00:42:58.519 --> 00:43:00.000
You know? And you get the
bill right, way, or they're saying

617
00:43:00.039 --> 00:43:04.559
they you know, they don't really
treat you like you're you're really they really

618
00:43:04.599 --> 00:43:07.599
care you know that you're there or
not well. Part of the experience of

619
00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:10.480
hospitality working and living in Greece is
the fact that they do care. They

620
00:43:10.519 --> 00:43:13.800
want you know, they want you
to You could have one cup of coffee

621
00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:15.320
and stay there for four hours.
You know. There it's less about the

622
00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:20.159
money, it's it's about the connection
and what happens with that. It creates

623
00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:23.400
a sense of loyalty and brand loyalty
that wants you to come back. And

624
00:43:23.480 --> 00:43:28.119
I remember in Chicago, I used
to go to a Greek restaurant just as

625
00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:30.480
an example of that. Doesn't have
to be a Greek restaurant to be anything.

626
00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:34.159
But I remember this Greek restaurant on
the by the front door had a

627
00:43:34.239 --> 00:43:37.199
side it's facing outside that said welcome
home. All right. I mean,

628
00:43:37.199 --> 00:43:42.960
the idea is it said it's it's
the hospitality can be applied in hospitals.

629
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:45.400
To think about this, it comes
from the saying Greek word roots a hospital.

630
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:50.639
Do we really treat patients and co
workers? Hospitals in some cases or

631
00:43:50.679 --> 00:43:54.639
some of the sickest organizations on the
planet, and so that healthy organizations has

632
00:43:54.679 --> 00:44:00.199
to be focused in the health sector
as well, all right, to make

633
00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:04.239
sure that in fact people are just
treated like they are parts of a machine.

634
00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:07.320
And so the idea behind hospitality is
another way to what extent you're treating

635
00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:10.960
people, so that it's not like, you know, the stereotypical laugh about

636
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:15.719
government people going in to get a
license, you know, the motor Vehicles

637
00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:19.079
bureau. You know, that's not
the kind of hospitality. That's not the

638
00:44:19.159 --> 00:44:22.800
kind of connection that we're talking about
in Opah. And so that's something that

639
00:44:22.840 --> 00:44:24.239
all of us can do, not
just leaders. I mean the way you

640
00:44:24.280 --> 00:44:28.239
treat it. It's amazing if you
smile at somebody and treat them in a

641
00:44:28.280 --> 00:44:30.360
positive way, it's amazing what kind
of responds you get. If you come

642
00:44:30.360 --> 00:44:34.400
in there with a bad attitude,
with your head down, it's amazing what

643
00:44:34.559 --> 00:44:37.559
kind of response you get. Right, So the idea here is that you

644
00:44:37.599 --> 00:44:39.639
are in control of what you know. Again, it's kind of like,

645
00:44:39.960 --> 00:44:42.880
be the change you want to see
in the world, Be the change you

646
00:44:42.880 --> 00:44:45.679
want to see in your workplace.
And that's part of what we're trying to

647
00:44:45.719 --> 00:44:49.440
do here and see what impact it
has. But that's Oh, obviously leaders

648
00:44:49.480 --> 00:44:52.719
have responsibility as well, but it's
not just the leaders. I don't want

649
00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:55.599
to put all the blame and all
the responsibility on them, agreed anyway,

650
00:44:55.679 --> 00:45:00.440
So and then we've got to say
how much time do I have, Alex,

651
00:45:00.800 --> 00:45:04.719
I love this. I know I'm
getting as much like you like,

652
00:45:04.719 --> 00:45:07.960
probably two minutes, three minutes to
finish this part, and then we'll have

653
00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:10.119
to conclude. I'll give you a
last word. Okay. Well, you

654
00:45:10.119 --> 00:45:14.719
know it's the same thing in terms
of purpose. I mean, purpose is

655
00:45:14.719 --> 00:45:17.599
an important element for all of us
because of one of our practices in under

656
00:45:17.599 --> 00:45:23.079
purpose has to do with know thyself, and know thyself is actually manifest itself

657
00:45:23.159 --> 00:45:27.159
in different ways. But one of
them is to what extent are people in

658
00:45:27.159 --> 00:45:30.159
your workplace wearing masks? Now?
Do you wear a mask when you go

659
00:45:30.199 --> 00:45:32.400
to work and then your real self
is shown when you're out of work.

660
00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:35.920
Well, if that's the case,
then in a lot of ways, you

661
00:45:35.960 --> 00:45:37.960
know you're not being authentic and you're
not going to really create the kind of

662
00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:43.440
engagement that we talked about earlier.
So the idea behind know thyself is,

663
00:45:43.480 --> 00:45:45.960
you know, one, know your
own values, your core values, your

664
00:45:45.960 --> 00:45:49.480
coorescence, explore it. It's oddgoing. I mean, the search for meeting,

665
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:52.800
you know, is something that we
all ideally would like to see manifest

666
00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:58.760
in our lives. And to what
extent are we spending time doing exercises?

667
00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:00.800
You know, today we talk mindfulness, but that's not enough. It's not

668
00:46:00.960 --> 00:46:04.559
enough just to be mindful. It's
not enough just to empty your mind.

669
00:46:04.800 --> 00:46:08.400
It's also to understand the deeper core
that that chorus is, that true nature

670
00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:13.559
that will help drive you. And
again, to use an English word that

671
00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:17.039
has a Greek derivative, the word
enthusiasm comes from two Greek words and actually

672
00:46:17.079 --> 00:46:22.119
means manifesting the God or the spirit
within. So in many respects that people

673
00:46:22.119 --> 00:46:25.599
aren't enthusiastic at work, I mean
they're basically not manifesting their spirit. And

674
00:46:25.719 --> 00:46:29.519
to what extent we have a responsibility, I mean, it's part of why,

675
00:46:29.800 --> 00:46:31.599
as you can tell a little bit, I'm pretty enthusiastic about we're doing.

676
00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:35.000
But to us, this, this, this is a ministry of meaning.

677
00:46:35.159 --> 00:46:37.960
This is a ministry. This is
not just I mean, this is

678
00:46:37.000 --> 00:46:39.840
not just a joke. I mean, you know, I mean my goal

679
00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:44.519
in life is to help people find
that deeper meaning and help them elevate their

680
00:46:44.559 --> 00:46:47.320
spirit, and then that manifests an
attitude the a you know, to what

681
00:46:47.440 --> 00:46:51.679
extent, or embracing the fullness of
life, which includes you know that the

682
00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:54.239
now times. You know, this
is not about positive psychology, where the

683
00:46:54.519 --> 00:46:59.760
earlier version of positive psychology, there
is now a positive psychology two point zero

684
00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:02.280
being floated out there in the in
the in the world professionally, and I

685
00:47:02.320 --> 00:47:07.320
have some close friends and colleagues or
leaders in that. But it's not just

686
00:47:07.360 --> 00:47:10.360
about the good times, because your
happiness, your search for happiness is fleeting,

687
00:47:10.519 --> 00:47:14.320
and you know there's meaning even in
your low points in your life.

688
00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:16.559
As a matter of fact, in
many respects, your most soulful, meaningful

689
00:47:16.599 --> 00:47:20.199
times or when you are out of
balance, not when you're in balance,

690
00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:22.559
when you're not happy, because those
are the times you do deep soul searching.

691
00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:25.239
Those are the times when you find
here too, your true friends are

692
00:47:25.800 --> 00:47:28.800
you know, your true friends aren't
there when you have a lot of money

693
00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:31.480
and everything's going great. Your true
friends are the ones that show up when

694
00:47:31.599 --> 00:47:36.519
things are you know, starting to
go down the tubes. And so these

695
00:47:36.519 --> 00:47:38.400
are the kinds of things and so
to what extent can you then use your

696
00:47:38.400 --> 00:47:43.920
connecting with your friends, that connecting
meaningfully with others in order to embrace life,

697
00:47:44.159 --> 00:47:46.639
the fullness of life, and raise
your attitude to be appreciative with an

698
00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:51.559
attitude to be resilient attitude, those
are the case. So the combination of

699
00:47:51.599 --> 00:47:57.519
the interdependency of OP and A is
what has become part of our empirical data

700
00:47:57.599 --> 00:48:01.360
base. And so doing the assessment
tools has given us some empirical evidence about

701
00:48:01.599 --> 00:48:06.559
the O, the P and the
A, the combination the interaction effects and

702
00:48:06.880 --> 00:48:09.239
similar to Victor Froncle's work, I
mean attitude and what we wrote about in

703
00:48:09.239 --> 00:48:13.599
Prisoners of Our Thoughts, you know, attitude is is a good starting place.

704
00:48:13.639 --> 00:48:15.000
I mean, if we've got a
bad attitude, it's pretty damn hard

705
00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:19.079
to connect with others and it's pretty
hard to engage with deeper purpose. You

706
00:48:19.159 --> 00:48:22.039
got to believe, You've got to
believe that you know your attitude is in

707
00:48:22.119 --> 00:48:27.119
the fact help drive you forward and
upward. Beautiful way to finish, Doctor

708
00:48:27.159 --> 00:48:30.639
Alex Patacos, It has really been
my privilege to have you on the show.

709
00:48:30.679 --> 00:48:32.679
This is a vitally important conversation to
have, and I like you am

710
00:48:32.719 --> 00:48:37.239
committed to bringing humanity back to the
workplace and making it a joyful place for

711
00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:40.280
everyone. So thank you for sharing
your scholarship, your heart, your soul,

712
00:48:40.360 --> 00:48:44.519
everything with us today. It's been
a privilege. Thank you very much

713
00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:46.840
for having me listeners. If you
want to learn more about doctor Alex Patacos

714
00:48:46.840 --> 00:48:51.119
and the wre Key and Elaine Dundan
do at the Global Meaning Institute, visit

715
00:48:51.320 --> 00:48:57.719
Globalmeaning Institute dot com again Globalmeaning Institute
dot com. Last week, if you

716
00:48:57.719 --> 00:49:00.239
missed the live show You Can Almost
Care to Be Recorded podcast, we were

717
00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:05.239
on the air with Wayley's show of
Omana Health. We talked about the insistent

718
00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:08.320
and irresistible nud she felt for years
to step outside his comfort zone and do

719
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:12.880
her a severe health scare and take
the leap to pursue what he calls his

720
00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:15.880
two point zero, a life and
career built on meaning and purpose. Very

721
00:49:15.960 --> 00:49:21.199
arresting and inspiring story. Next week
we'll be talking with Karen Millsap. She's

722
00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:24.079
a resilience coach and founder of the
grow Flow community. She has an incredibly

723
00:49:24.119 --> 00:49:28.760
remarkable story of overwhelming pain, loss
and defeat that put her on her path

724
00:49:28.800 --> 00:49:30.559
to purpose. See you there.
Remember that work is at least a third

725
00:49:30.559 --> 00:49:37.360
of our life, So let's work
on Purpose. Well, we hope you've

726
00:49:37.480 --> 00:49:40.480
enjoyed this week's program. Be sure
to tune in to Working on Purpose,

727
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:46.199
featuring your host Alis Cortes, each
week on the Voice America Empowerment Channel.

728
00:49:46.719 --> 00:50:08.760
This week, find your life's purpose
at work.