MEANINGology: A Cure for Todays Modern Day Crisis of Meaning

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortez. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working

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on Purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortez. Welcome back to

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the Working on Purpose Show. Thanks
for tuning in again this week. I'm

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your host, Elise Cortez, joining
you live from Dallas, Texas, which

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is home base for me. If
you've been tuning in for a while,

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you know this program is all about
helping people create more meaningful and purposeful lives

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and equipping leaders inside organizations to cultivate
meaning and purpose that elicits passion inspired contribution,

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innovation, and persevering performance. I
talk with my guest to draw on

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their expertise and term my own experience
consulting speaking developing workforces across the globe.

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Each week. In these conversations,
I hope you walk away with something you

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can immediately put to use in your
life or your work. And if I

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can do anything to help you along
your journey. Go to my website at

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a least Cortez dot com and use
the contact me feature to message me and

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let's open a conversation to see what's
going on for you and how I might

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be able to help in your rate. I'm glad we're connected, and thanks

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for listening. Now on to this
week's program with us today is doctor Alex

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Potaco's affectionately nicknamed Doctor Meaning, who
is a modern day Greek philosopher and founder

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of the Global Meaning Institute, a
think tank dedicated to advancing the human quest

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for meaning in life, work,
and society. Is co author with Elaine

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Dundon of Prisoners of Our Thoughts,
Victor Frankel's Principles for Discovering Meaning in Life

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and work. Potacos and Dundon are
also the co authors of the OPA Way

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Finding Joy and Meaning and everyday life
and work that is uniquely inspired by Greek

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philosophy, mythology, and culture.
They are also the co creators of the

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discipline called meaningology, the study and
practice of meaning in life, work,

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and society. Today, we'll be
talking about the crisis of meaning and why

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meaning is so important to nurture in
our lives. Meaniology period on a model

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and how it can be utilized by
leaders and organizations to create cultures of meaning

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and help employees find more meaning in
their work. Doctor Protaco's joints his to

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day from Niagara on the Lake,
Canada, a beautiful historic place, he

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tells me, Doctor Protacco's, welcome
to Working on Purpose. It's great to

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be with you else. I've been
looking forward to this, this wonderful,

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meaningful working on Purpose conversation. Me
too, Me too, And I did

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devour at both of your books.
I thank you so much for penning them,

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and I also want to acknowledge it's
wonderful that you have a beautiful,

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loving, and working relationship with your
wife, Elin Doundon. I think that

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is spectacular. I hope to find
that one day in my own life.

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So I revere that well, thank
you for that. I feel very blessed

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and honored as well. And I
think it's also a unique combination because,

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as you can tell from reading the
books, we kind of balance our different

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energies in terms of how we convey
the message. I think that's a really

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important and unique attribute that we bring. It's beautiful it's meaningful and beautiful.

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Yeah, thank you, You're welcome. Now, speaking of that, one

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of the things that I find fascinating
by getting to do the show is is

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just really surfacing really important issues that
really impact people across their lives and storm

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their work. And you are leading
the meaning movement. So the first thing

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we probably need to do is define
for our listeners what you mean by meaning?

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So, what do you mean by
it? And why is it so

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important in our lives? Yeah,
the very good question. It's a question

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that, as you can imagine,
both Elene and I get asked all the

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time. I think most of the
definitions of meaning when people actually go there,

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because oftentimes what they'll just do is
do a quick survey of saying,

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do you find meaning in your work? Do you have purpose in your life,

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or something like that, without really
demystifying what that concept is. Most

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of the people that seem to be
defining meaning look at it primarily as something

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that is significant or something that matters
to us. And I think that that's

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fine up to a certain extent.
But I think what Eleine and I have

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done in our work, and this
is primarily because our work is really grounded

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in existential philosophy, probably more than
anything else, is the fact that we

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ask deeper questions, and the question
that really brought us to our definition and

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meaning is the fact that we are
looking at things that effectively resonate with us,

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which allow us to find our true
nature, what we call our core

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essence. And we typically know what
is meaningful to us when it's almost like

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the song good Vibrations by the Beach
Boys, those those listeners who would remember

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that group. You know, sometimes
we have good vibrations when we meet someone,

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when we experience something. Other times
the vibrations kind of separate us,

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or we realize that's not really what
I'm interested in. And so the idea

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of meaning and really getting down almost
to a quantum and metaphysical level is really

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what connects with us on a deeper, deeper plane. And I guess in

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that sense it's it's something that allows
us to determine what is meaningful by in

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many ways asking the opposite question what
is meaningless? And if you ask people

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what is meaningless in their work in
their life, it's very easy for them

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to come up with a laundry list. It's probably harder in some cases to

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initially start out about what's meaningful,
but if you look at the meaninglessness question,

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you can start to convert that into
something and say, Okay, what

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do I have to do to make
my job, my work, my relationship

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where I live more meaning less meaningless
and ultimately more meaningful. M I like

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that. I don't know that I've
actually heard that that that method of distinguishing

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meaning, but I like it.
And then for our listeners to understand those

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people who are maybe scratching here,
like why are we having a show about

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meaning? Why is meaning so important
our lives? Well, you know,

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we've We've done a lot of of
course, now this is something that goes

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back a lot of years. I
mean, both both Elaine and I have

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not only done research. We've worked
in the business world. We've worked in

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governments, We've worked in a lot
of different organizations. We worked for organizations,

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We've worked with people literally in all
stages and walks of life across culturally.

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And I think one of the things
that's really important to us is that

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some of the work that we did, say go back even just ten years

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ago. We were focused on how
to help organizations become more innovative and actually

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labled another book called The Seeds of
Innovation, which is really a practical guide

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to how to create a meaningful culture, innovative culture, how to create opportunities

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for people to actually be more creative
and be able to take action and so

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forth so that they can bring more
innovation to their business, to the organization.

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And over the years of working in
the innovation arena, and we actually

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taught the first integrated course and innovation
management here in Canada at the University of

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Toronto, is the fact that we
found that innovation would kick off with a

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bang and then after a short amount
of time we're sort to sizzle and fizzle

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and then eventually we just stop.
And so we've really tried to look at,

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well, what is it how do
you head to sustain these great innovation

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initiatives over time, and most of
the work that we did we realize,

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well, you know, those things
are not extrinsically motivated. Necessarily, there

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are many things that happen that are
more intrinsic and these are the kinds of

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things again that that relate to the
meaning question, the existential question. So

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if your budget gets cut, or
if somebody say it doesn't like an idea

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that you present, to you,
to your supervisor, your boss. A

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lot of times people just retreat and
then they want they don't want to come

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back with the idea or the culture
itself is so toxic that people say,

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well, why should I even try
to innovate in this company when it really

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doesn't matter to me? And so
those kinds of questions, which became really

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existential questions to us, became our
driver. We're looking at what are those

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primary intrinsic motivators that keep people going
when times are tough, not just when

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times are good, but when times
are tough. And the more we got

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into that, the more it brought
us to the meaning questions. Obviously,

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as we'll get into this, Victor
Froncole, the psychiatrist, was a mentor

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and he actually encourages to write our
one book, Prisoners of Our Thoughts,

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And so the meaning, the search
for meaning in everyday life and work became

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kind of almost it was almost like
branded in our soul or two will.

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We said, look, we have
to share how can people find deeper meaning

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in their life which will help them
in their workplace environment? How do we

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help people find meaning in their work
which will help them keep going even when

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times get tough, and as we
all know, times do eventually get tough.

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They do, indeed, And in
fact, that does bring me to

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the next question here, Alex,
and I love the way that you presenced

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all that for us because it's so
important people understand why this meaning stuff is

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so critical. It gets to the
motivation piece. So I'm going to guess

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that a lot of people don't really
realize that there is a meaning movement afoot.

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So let's talk about the crisis of
meaning. We're both dedicated to eradicating.

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Help us understand how vast this problem
is and how it's manifesting our lives.

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Yeah, well, you know,
the meaning movement is not something that

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probably we could say we obviously started. I mean, meaning is as we

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look at even going back to the
pre Socratic philosophers and ancient Greece, they

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were looking at, Okay, how
do we live the good life? And

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the good life to us has become
the meaningful life. It's not just about

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materialism, it's not just about having
more influence and power over other people.

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It's not just about money. And
so some of these questions that again these

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are existential meaning questions, go back
you know, millennium. But let's just

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go to the more more current periods
to go back to the to the twentieth

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century, so we're at least closer
to where we are now. Victor Frankel,

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who's really a pioneer of meaning in
psychotherapy and psychiatry, he back,

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you know, around the time of
World War two, identified what's referred what

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he referred to as a mass and
erratic triad. And basically that triad consists

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of three characteristics which he referred to
as societal symptoms of problems that we need

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to needed to addressed. And again
realize that this is going back to World

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War Two around that period. One
of them is addiction, the second one

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is aggression, and the third one
is depression. And those three societal symptoms

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that were witnessed during that time period
that doctor Froncle was writing about them and

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speaking about them. Think about it
today. Are they less or are they

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more? And as we all know
and anybody who's listening to this conversation that

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we're having, that addiction has not
gone away, if anything, where there

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are more types of addiction. It's
much more prevalent today than it was in

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doctor Fronkle's time. And what he
probably couldn't even imagine some of the addictions

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that we have today, such as
the internet, addiction and other types of

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things. Aggression, I mean,
aggression is happening all over from not just

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in areas and families and domestic violence. We're talking about aggression, you know,

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when we talk about say the Antifa, polarization political movements of today,

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We've got violence on a geopolitical scale. We've got all kinds of things that

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are happening on the aggression side.
That again, we're not just talking about

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going postal, We're not just talking
about gun violence, We're not just talking

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about problems and bullying. All those
things are part of this speaking thing.

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Many of these things didn't exist at
a time when, at least they weren't

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evident when doctor Froncle first talked about
them, and then depression. Depression has

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certainly has not gone away. So
just if we look at those particular elements

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that were the mass neurotic triad that
we're articulated back in the days when Victor

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Froncle first wrote about them, those
things have been exacerbated over these these last

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several decades to the point where again, these are societal ills and so to

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say that that we can only treat
aggression, addiction, and depression with drugs

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is an illusion. It's a fallacy, you know, and it's it's really

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not the kind of thinking that we
want to espouse and share with people.

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We want to help build people's capacity
to address examples like the massnuretic triad using

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a more humanistic approach rather than one
that just assumes that we can reduce human

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beings into their component parts and do
surgery. You know, we can do.

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I used to work on the metal
health mental health system years ago,

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where we still used to do lobotomies. I mean, do we want to

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do that? Do we want to
implant electrodes in people's brains? And do

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we want to just fill them up
with drugs all the time? And it

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is that really solving and resolving societal
zills? I don't think it is,

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and I think that most people listening
would agree with that. And so the

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idea is that where are some of
the bigger issues, How can we how

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can we resolve them? How can
we get to the core? And the

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core is the core meaning people need
to know that their life matters, that

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their work matters, that their relationships
matter and that people care about them.

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And this is again, this is
not just touchy feely stuff. This is

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this is a humanistic approach which we
even learned was an important driver for innovation

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in business in governments that I could
tell you sorry for at least you have

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to interrupt your Russell. Well,
I'm a recovering academic and all in a

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way, and so the idea is
that I could. I could. This

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is basically a sixteen week course that
I could share with you right now.

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I see you have to interrupt me. Okay, I'm hanging out every word,

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but you're right. I got so
many questions I got to get out

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of you before we get off the
air, because I want to share this

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with the listeners. Let's do this
really quick. First, I'm going to

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say that what I heard in that
it was really catalyzing and developing human agency

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for people to be able to really
create for themselves the lives that are meaningful

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and not rely on things like surgery, drugs and lobotomies. If you will,

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to handle their problems so completely with
you on that's and that's only,

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that's only part of the issue.
I mean, when you talk about the

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crisis. The crisis is looming ahead
that, for example, is going to

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be affected by the so called developments
and technology. So as we move into

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AI and some robotics and so forth, what are we talking about it in

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the case of working on purpose to
what extent are we in fact and replacing

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them beings with machines with AI and
what is that? What are the implications

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of that on society and on human
beings? These are the kinds of things

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that A Lane and I are trying
to address in the work that we do

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through the Global Meaning Institute. I
would love to be part of that in

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any way because I'm dedicated to that
as well. In fact, I'm gonna

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have a conversation on ere where somebody
else about how we can help catalyze human

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beings to better handle themselves and keep
themselves in pace on pace with AI anderfrom

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intelligence. I personally don't want to
work in a world where I don't have

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a job because I can't keep up
with our official intelligence and robotics, et

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cetera. So I think we need
to be much more thoughtful about the decisions

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we make as leaders as how we
employ those technologies. Absolutely, So let's

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talk about something that I know a
lot of our listeners can really relate to

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here, and let's just do it
briefly if we can, because I want

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to get to a quick break.
But that's engagement. So what we're talking

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about here, this absence of meaning
or lack of meaning, translates in many

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ways to the low engagement we see
in organizations. And you and I both

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those numbers before our listeners. According
to Gallup, only thirty percent of the

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US is fully engaged in their work, fifty two percent are disengaged, in

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eighteen percent are actively disengaged. So
we can start to really talk about how

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this becomes an issue to to address. But first, you say in your

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book and completely agree that the statement
that business and engagement surveys are focused on

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the wrong areas entirely is so important. Can you say just a little bit

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about that and then we'll take a
quick break. Yeah. Well, you

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know a number of years ago,
there was a book that came out that

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I'm sure you're familiar with, called
The Power of Full Engagement, and I

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would change that title. Actually I
have done that in doing some keynote addresses

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in the past, wherever changed the
title from the Power of full engagement to

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the power of meaningfull engagement, because
we can have engagement by having dictators.

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I mean, we appear in North
Korea, you're going to be engaged because

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if you're not engaged in doing whatever
you're supposed to be doing in that society

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and that particular culture and society,
you know, you may find out that

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you know, you're going to be
imprisoned or whatever. So the idea of

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just engaging you can have an authoritarian
CEO or boss and say, look,

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you know you're fired if you don't
do these things. That type of engagement

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is not the kind of engagement we're
talking about. We want it to be

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meaning centric, and so the idea
behind engagement with a meaning focus is really

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helping. This is not just the
responsibility of leaders and managers, but it's

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also the individual workers whoever that worker
maybe's respond personal responsibility is to find the

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deeper meaning in their work, why
they're doing the deeper meaning, and their

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relationships they have with their co workers, with their customers, with their clients,

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with their students, with their patients, with their supervisors. So it's

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not just many of the engagement research
that we've been reviewing really kind of put

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the blame a lot on leaders,
and they kind of ignore the fact that

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it's a personal and collective responsibility to
find the kind of meaning that we're talking

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about. You just can't pass the
buck over to somebody else and say,

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at least, you know, help
me find meaning, help me become engaged.

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There's only so much you can do. I have to do things as

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well. I have to meet you
part of the way. And so this

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is a major issue for us is
how do we then take some of the

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root causes of disengagement and really look
at how then can we convert that and

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reduce anxiety, reduce some of those
questions like aggression in the workplace, like

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addiction, you know, depression and
so forth, just like we talked about

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on a societal level, how do
we do that in such a way that

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people are engaged. There are many
people that come to work and we know

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this. We've observed this where I
mean literally, I've walked into many companies

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where it's like a scene from The
Sixth the movie The Sixth Sense I see

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dead people. I know they're everywhere, yes, I And so the idea

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is, how do we change that
and why is it that there are some

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organization and some companies. Some in
working environments where people are really they come

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alive and you can see that they're
proud of what they do. They're proud.

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I mean even if their their budgets
are cut or the competition is much

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more strenuous than say they'd like,
they still you still come into that place

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and they want And this is which
we'll get into. Why the open Way

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became an important ingredient in our meaning
work is that they really focus on hospitality,

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they focus on customer relations, they
focus on building teams. They create

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a team spirit that is that's almost
like you know team spirits in an NBA

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basketball team. You know that's I
happen to be near Toronto where we just

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won the NBA championship, you know
where they really can feel that energy.

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And this is a key part.
This is a part of the metaphysical element

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of meaning. Is that meaning goes
back and I'll get into this and maybe

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after the break where meaning has a
spiritual component and it's a metaphysical element that

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helps drive people and you can see
it. You can see whether people are

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enjoying their work, they're enjoying their
life, They passionate enthusiastic about what they

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what they're doing. You can see
it in their eyes, you can see

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it in their posture, and do
they take care of themselves? So they

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care about each other. And I
think that's the kind of thing. So

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the engagement that we're talking about,
it's almost like trying to define you know,

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maybe concepts like pornography. You know, I don't can't define it,

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but I'll know it when I see
it type of thing. Yeah, something,

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Just second, hold on, we
got to take a quick break here.

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I love everything you're saying. And
yes, the reason I wanted to

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have you in the show is because
you are helping pull us into a new

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space that we need to go into
desperately. So that's part of the reason

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I want to have you on the
show. So first break here, I'm

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your host, Elis Cortez. We've
been on the air with doctor Alex Potacos,

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who is the founder of Global Meaning
Institute. He is also the co

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author with Elaine Dundon of Prisoners of
Our Thoughts, Victor Frankel's Principles for Discovering

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Meaning in life and work, and
also are the authors of The OPA Way

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Finding Joy and Meaning and Everyday life
and work. Potacos and Dundon are also

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the co creators of the discipline meneology, the study and practice of meaning in

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life, work in society. He's
jaunches a day from Niagara on the Lake

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in Canada. We'll be right back. Stay what Elise Cortez is a speaker

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and engagement and development catalyst. She
designs and delivers professional development, leadership and

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engagement workshops and can bring her expertise
to your organization. She will help ignite

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meaningful development within your workforce that will
increase employee engagement, performance and retention.

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To learn more or to invite Elise
to speak to your organization, please visit

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her at www dot Elise Cortez dot
com. She would welcome the opportunity to

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help get your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with Elise

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Cortez. To reach our program today, send an email to Elise ali Se

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at Elise Cortez dot com. Now
back to working on purpose. Thanks for

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staying with us and welcome back to
working on purpose if you're just joining us

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on guest is doctor Alex Patakos,
who is the modern day Greek philosopher and

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founder of the Global Meaning Institute,
a think tank dedicated to advancing the human

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quest for meaning in life, work, and society. He is co author

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with the Lane Dundant of Prisoners of
Our Thoughts, Victor Frankel's Principles for Discovering

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Meaning in Life and Work, and
also the two of them authored the OPAH

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Way Finding Joy and Meaning and Everyday
Life and Work. I'm your host,

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Elie Quartez, So, doctor Patacos, i't really want to make sure that

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we can get into this next segment
your meeting ology discipline. But before we

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do that, because for many listeners
who aren't in the space like you and

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I are, meaning can be squishy, and I think it's important that we

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talk about that. The two of
you, you and Elane have created three

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tests designed to gage a respond to
its current level of thinking and feeling regarding

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the state of their meaning and their
life and their work, as well as

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within the order. I mean,
that's just it's just so crisp say more

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about those three tests and how they
work. Okay, well, well,

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let me first preface what I want
to say about the tests that we've developed

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by saying that wanted it is interesting
to use the word squishy or as other

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people will talk about the you know, the soft side of work, the

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soft side of life, and we're
really, as we think about it with

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we said before break, as technology
begins to take more and more over more

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and more of our lives and so
forth, including the hard side of work,

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it's going to become even more important
for us to focus on the soft

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side, or the human side.
And so this has really been our goal,

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and meaning has been kind of the
foundation of humanizing the workplace for us,

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humanizing the way we relate to each
other as human beings overall, which

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is unfortunately something that we have to
do, but you know, we seem

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to be getting away from a lot
of those dimensions of what makes us really

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human. And then we've also been
kind of focusing on try to figure out

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how to not just humanize the workplace
and work, but also in a way

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spiritualize it by elevating human spirit in
the workplace. And so that's been those

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are kind of drivers, you know
that really that we come at it mainly

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because of our own search for meaning, based on our own zig zag paths

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that Elaine and I've had. So
what we've done is that because we really

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have three kind of almost a three
pronged approach, three legs to our stool,

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if you will. That became meaniology. One of the earliest one that

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started all this was what I mentioned
before, that we have both had an

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interest in innovation, and how do
you manage how do you cultivate innovation in

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a way that not just an organizational
level, but how do we innovate our

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lives? You know, when you're
stuck in a job, when you're stuck

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in a relationship. You know,
people sometimes don't realize that they actually are

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in the driver's seat and they can
innovate their way to a new to a

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solution, a creative solution. The
second one is our passion for the Victor

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Frankel's wisdom, his system of local
therapy and existential analysis. And then the

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third leg of our stool is really
the existential and ancient Greek philosophy that drove

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really the human condition, and so
our research and our writing, our articles

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and so forth. We both write. For example, psychology today is really

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built on those three pillars, I
guess, or stools of the of the

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of the legs of the stool,
and from that we don't want to we

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didn't really want to develop tests per
se, because even though we're both the

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behavioral scientists, we're really more philosophers
in terms of creating a philosophy of life,

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a philosophy of work that we felt
would be much more beneficial to human

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beings. But because particularly Americans and
Canadians, North Americans and Northern Europeans are

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really big on scorecards and they want
to know where they are, the idea

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of developing an assessment tool became something
that we got interested in, not because

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it ellish is the humanizing of the
work that we do, but because it

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was a way to get people interested
in it so that then we can engage

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in authentic dialogue and then talk about
the deeper meaning quote unquote behind any assessment

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results that we might find. And
so the idea was is that how do

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we create these tools? Where did
they come from? And they really come

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from a formula that we developed coming
out of our years of experience working around

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the Greek philosophy, the Greek mythology
and culture. Work that became was written

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up in the book The Open Way, and we looked at those elements that

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came out of that work. We
looked at that in contrast and in comparison

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to Victor Frouncle's wisdom, because we
are also very well versed in understanding his

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existential philosophy around his system of local
therapy, and we tied those two together.

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We looked to integrate those and in
effect, the formula it became,

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the assessment tools became not only a
way to distill our work, but it

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was also a way to simplify in
some respects without marginalizing doctor Fronkell's work.

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Because part of my mission in life
is not only to advance doctor Frouncle's his

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life and legacy, but it was
also to engage in a way that I

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can help bring it to the mainstream
audience in a different way, all right.

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I didn't want to bring it in
as psychotherapy as something you know what

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I mean, because you know when
you're going into the workplace and the first

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thing that people just say, well, I don't need therapy, why are

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you here for? Well, we're
trying to help elevate meaning in our organization.

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And as even doctor Fronkele would say, that question about meaning, the

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human questions about meaning are really not
symptoms of illness. They're really what makes

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us human. I mean, that's
what distinguishes us from other living entities.

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So we can actually ask questions,
existential questions about our own state of being.

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Why are we here? Where do
we want to be? Those kinds

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of things, you know, what's
our potential and how do we realize our

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potential? And so those are the
kinds of questions that became health oriented.

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As a matter of fact, local
therapy can be looked at not just as

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a as a therapeutic intervention, but
it really is a health intervention. It's

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something It's not just therapy through meaning, it's health through meaning. And so

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we really wanted to see this as
how he built healthy organizations, how he

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built healthy communities, healthy societies,
healthy families, healthy neighborhoods, et cetera.

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And so we went back to Greece, and again I'm giving you really

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much more than a twenty five word
synopsis here, and we found that there

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were three core elements that drove the
Greek culture in the work that we did

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there, and we did this starting
pre crisis, before the global economic crisis,

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this is before the refugee crisis,
and that we followed it through and

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we found that the three things that
seemed to drive the Greek. The Greek

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people's ability to deal with the stresses
that they were facing as they entered into

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the crisis was one that they had
a major authentic connection with each other and

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a major connection with their local traditional
village life. They had connections in ways

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where they had they honored each other, honors a big, big, big

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factor h and they had a tremendous
amount of ability to connect in ways that

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Elaine and I said, well,
she's I wish we could do that in

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North America because many of the things
that happened in North America didn't relate in

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the same way. We said,
if we could take bottle that ingredient and

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bring it back to North America in
some way, we could help reduce stress.

407
00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:33.920
We can help people relate to each
other in much more peaceful, healthy

408
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:40.640
ways. So connecting which became O
and opens connect connecting meaningfully with others others

409
00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:44.440
became the O and then we The
second element was that they were engaged with

410
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:48.599
a deeper purpose. The purpose you
know, you know, we all heard

411
00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:51.000
this saying that where there's a will, there's a way. Well, to

412
00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:53.720
paraphrase doctor Froncle, we believe that
where there's a purpose, there's a will.

413
00:28:55.400 --> 00:28:59.000
And so the idea here is that
that we wanted to help people I

414
00:28:59.319 --> 00:29:02.519
articulate what their purposes, which is
the large part of what you're doing in

415
00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:06.640
this show and your work. And
so p became a core element of our

416
00:29:07.119 --> 00:29:08.960
formula for meeting if you will.
And then the third one, which is

417
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:12.880
also very closely related to loco therapy
and doctor Froncle's work, is the fact

418
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:21.359
that the Greeks are very very open
and transparent and authentic about expressing themselves about

419
00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:25.559
their attitude in life. And this
is kind of this is where the word

420
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:29.000
if you take op and a as
as an acronym here, but that's put

421
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:32.160
it together. It's a word in
a common Greek word. It's up bah,

422
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:37.480
all right. And so you can't
say without you know, elevating your

423
00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:40.279
spirit without you know. And so
the idea behind a lot of money of

424
00:29:40.279 --> 00:29:42.319
the Greeks, unlike some of the
folks, say in other some of the

425
00:29:42.359 --> 00:29:47.200
cultures that are much more close and
armored in terms of how they express themselves,

426
00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:49.359
the Greeks embraced life, the good
times, the bad times, the

427
00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:53.440
joys and sorrows and so forth,
with an attitude that was very resilient and

428
00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:57.559
very and also very appreciative. So
we took the attitude element, we took

429
00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:03.119
the purpose element, we took the
other element, and those three comprised the

430
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:07.680
model of the new paradigm for meaning
that we articulated in the spouse in the

431
00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:12.400
open way. And then that model
then was further enhanced and we that's when

432
00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:18.240
we started to go into the empirical
base of developing assessment tools that allowed us

433
00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:22.799
to do quote unquote training capacity building
around the meaning questions that people would have

434
00:30:22.920 --> 00:30:29.359
either individually on a personal level,
or in an organizational group setting, or

435
00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:33.039
you know, any type of group. And that became kind of the foundation

436
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:37.000
for doing that. But I want
to get clear that the assessment tools in

437
00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:41.880
and of themselves are no good if
you don't engage people on a humanistic level

438
00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:45.839
where they absolutely you know what I
mean, and so absolutely so give somebody

439
00:30:45.880 --> 00:30:48.119
a score, I mean, that's
not enough. We've got to always let's

440
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:52.880
let's let's do a deep dive.
Let's find out are you weaker on purpose?

441
00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:55.400
Let's talk about that. And then
you know, as you know from

442
00:30:55.440 --> 00:30:56.880
reading the books, we have a
lot of different things, a lot of

443
00:30:56.920 --> 00:31:03.480
path we call them pathways to understand, practices to understand how do you do

444
00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:06.240
a deep dive and purpose, how
do you do a deep dive in your

445
00:31:06.279 --> 00:31:08.680
connections with others? And how do
you do a deep dive in terms of

446
00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:14.839
improving your attitude. All three of
those components together comprise our formula for meeting.

447
00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:17.400
So when you look at that,
and again, I'm not trying it

448
00:31:17.440 --> 00:31:21.839
any way to minimize the value of
working on purpose your program. But purpose

449
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:25.240
is only part of the formula meaning, it is not meaning. Purpose and

450
00:31:25.319 --> 00:31:27.839
meaning are not the same. And
so it's important because there are many people

451
00:31:27.880 --> 00:31:32.359
who never have They either die prematurely, you know, they could die something.

452
00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:34.880
They could die prematurely. They can
die you know, before births.

453
00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:37.400
They can die at a young age. They can die as a result of

454
00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:41.680
civil strife, war, disease,
you name it. Their life still has

455
00:31:41.839 --> 00:31:45.920
meaning even if they never were able
to achieve a purpose per se that we

456
00:31:45.960 --> 00:31:48.880
would like to say is something that
we'd all ideally like to be able to

457
00:31:48.920 --> 00:31:53.279
do. They never realize their full
potential in that in that sense, but

458
00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:57.240
at the same time, we firmative
believe, as Victor Froncle did, that

459
00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:01.200
all life has meaning up to your
very last breath. So the fact it

460
00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:04.799
could be way beyond our spects because
we have no idea what happens after that.

461
00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:08.400
And so the idea here is that
meaning is the all encompassing. It's

462
00:32:08.440 --> 00:32:15.240
almost like if you look at a
frozen lake, all right, and if

463
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:16.519
you look at it lay closely,
there are little holes, and some of

464
00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:20.519
the holes, all right, all
go down deep. Some of them only

465
00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:22.440
go to hit the surface real lightly. All of us are on a path.

466
00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:27.519
Ultimately, our path is to get
down to the body of water that

467
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:30.119
basically connects us all which is under
the ice, all right. And so

468
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:35.079
each of us, some of us
are more evolved than others in terms of

469
00:32:35.119 --> 00:32:38.279
more more conscious of what we're doing. Some people have to repeat lessons over

470
00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:42.799
and over and over again it till
we get the insight. But the idea

471
00:32:42.920 --> 00:32:45.400
here is these are the things we're
trying to do, and we're trying to

472
00:32:45.559 --> 00:32:49.799
use our assessment tools. We have
workdooks, we have we have a coaching

473
00:32:49.880 --> 00:32:53.640
program. We have a journal that
people can maintain so that they can keep

474
00:32:53.720 --> 00:32:59.200
track to what extent are they navigating
their life in a way that they're improving

475
00:32:59.480 --> 00:33:02.599
their own their connections with others,
their p their engagement with purpose, and

476
00:33:02.680 --> 00:33:07.599
they're a their ability to embrace life
with attitude. Those are the things that

477
00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:14.200
in a nutshell Meaningology. Yeah,
beautifully done, Alex. I knew that

478
00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:15.799
we were being very aggressive in the
questions here because I wanted to give as

479
00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:20.640
much as of you and Elaine as
I could. So hold that thought.

480
00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:22.960
We're going to grab our last break
because after the break, I want to

481
00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:25.559
talk about how we can apply this
insight organizations and in leadership. That's the

482
00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:29.759
next piece. I'm your host,
Alice Cortez, who were on the air

483
00:33:29.799 --> 00:33:32.000
with doctor Alex Patakos, who is
the founder of the Global Meaning Institute.

484
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:36.000
He is a co author with the
Lane Dundon of Prisoners of Our Thoughts,

485
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:39.400
Victor Frankel's Principles for discovering Meaning in
Life and Work, and also they authored

486
00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:44.359
the OPA Way Finding Joy and Meaning
and Everyday Life and Work. They are

487
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:47.359
the co creators of the discipline Meaningology, the study and practice of meaning and

488
00:33:47.440 --> 00:34:07.319
life work in society. We'll be
right back, stay with us. Elise

489
00:34:07.400 --> 00:34:12.760
Cortez is a speaker and engagement and
development catalyst. She designs and delivers professional

490
00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:16.960
development, leadership and engagement workshops and
can bring her expertise to your organization.

491
00:34:17.239 --> 00:34:22.239
She will help ignite meaningful development within
your workforce that will increase employee engagement,

492
00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:27.360
performance and retention. To learn more
or to invite a lease to speak to

493
00:34:27.440 --> 00:34:31.760
your organization, please visit her at
www dot Elise Cortez dot com. She

494
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:42.559
would welcome the opportunity to help get
your employees working on purpose. This is

495
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:46.599
working on Purpose with Elise Cortez.
To reach our program today, send an

496
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:53.760
email to Elise ali Se at Elise
Cortez dot com. Now back to working

497
00:34:53.880 --> 00:35:00.159
on purpose. Thanks for seeing you
see Welcome back to working on purtase you're

498
00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:02.079
just tuning in. My guest is
doctor Alex Patacos, who is a modern

499
00:35:02.159 --> 00:35:06.559
day Greek philosopher and founder of the
Global Meaning Institute, which is a think

500
00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:08.960
tank dedicated to advancing the human quest
for meaning in life, work, and

501
00:35:09.079 --> 00:35:14.400
society. Is co author with Elaine
Dundon of Prisoners of Our Thoughts Victor Frankel's

502
00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:17.639
Principles for discovering Meaning in Life and
work, and also they co author together

503
00:35:17.800 --> 00:35:22.000
The OPA Way Finding Joy and Meaning
in everyday life and work. Patacos and

504
00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:25.880
Dundon are the co creators of the
discipline of meanology, the study and practice

505
00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:30.239
of meaning and life work in society. I'm your host, Elice Cortez.

506
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:34.440
So for this last segment, I
wanted to give our listeners Alex the chance

507
00:35:34.519 --> 00:35:37.760
to really start to apply this stuff
inside organizations. Before the break, you

508
00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:40.159
talked a little bit about how they
applied individually, which is great. So,

509
00:35:40.360 --> 00:35:46.440
and you also mentioned earlier segment the
importance of that in meaning culture.

510
00:35:46.559 --> 00:35:51.360
Within a meaning culture, all employees
must realize that they are an integral part

511
00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:54.119
of and responsible for creating the meaning
center culture that they're part of. And

512
00:35:54.280 --> 00:35:59.480
I completely endorse that. I love
that that sort of adds some human agency

513
00:35:59.559 --> 00:36:02.360
and it also removes the idea that
it's all about it's all on the leaders

514
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:05.960
and the organizations to create that.
So would you just say a few more

515
00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:09.639
words about the individual piece of this. Yeah, Well, you know,

516
00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:16.719
it's it's very important for everybody to
appreciate that culture is something that is co

517
00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:22.280
created. You know, we all, ultimately, how we practice our daily

518
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:27.760
lives, whether it's at home or
whether it's at work, ultimately is a

519
00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:32.679
contribution one way or the other to
whatever culture that we're trying to ideally work

520
00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:37.119
within or live within. And so
if we are not nice to our neighbors,

521
00:36:37.239 --> 00:36:42.639
I mean, that changes our neighborhood
culture. If we are disrespectful at

522
00:36:42.679 --> 00:36:45.760
work, even if we're not you
know, the CEO or the senior manager,

523
00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:51.719
that has an impact on the quote
unquote culture. Culture. One of

524
00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:54.480
the one of the many definitions of
culture is that it's it really revolves around

525
00:36:54.880 --> 00:37:00.760
shared learned behavior, knowledge, behavior
and attitudes. To the extent that we

526
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:07.159
can share and develop a common understanding
of the practices the knowledge that we'd like

527
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:10.199
to have, say in the workplace, then that's at least a good starting

528
00:37:10.280 --> 00:37:15.800
point. And that's where we really
need to get into some form of authentic

529
00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:20.440
dialogue in order to engage people in
a meaningful way so that they can actually

530
00:37:20.559 --> 00:37:24.079
feel that they're part of the culture. And so when you look at more

531
00:37:24.119 --> 00:37:28.639
than some of the recent leaders who
are probably well known in the business world,

532
00:37:28.679 --> 00:37:30.000
I mean, for example, there
was not too long ago a Forbes

533
00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:36.800
article written by Jack Welch, the
former CEO of GE, and he basically

534
00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:43.599
put out a call to have that
one of the most important core competencies of

535
00:37:43.880 --> 00:37:47.519
a leader is really to be the
chief meaning officer and that their role is

536
00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:52.440
to help people people that they work
with find meaning in their work. That's

537
00:37:52.679 --> 00:37:57.320
a leadership challenge. There've been others, I mean, there was we we

538
00:37:57.639 --> 00:38:04.559
wrote about a person who was the
former head of the Medicaid Medicare program United

539
00:38:04.599 --> 00:38:08.079
States who felt that it wasn't enough
just to do report cards and track performance,

540
00:38:08.119 --> 00:38:13.239
etcetera, etcetera, that the real
magic of leadership was in helping people

541
00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:17.480
find meaning. So we're starting to
see a growing awareness that the meaning question,

542
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:22.079
particularly as we look at the changes
that are happening in the workplace,

543
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:25.800
the change that are happening in technology, that people need to find something other

544
00:38:25.920 --> 00:38:30.920
than you know, extrinsic motivators.
It's not enough to get more money.

545
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:35.280
It's not enough because we're gonna we're
gonna start seeing so many changes just on

546
00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:38.559
the technological front that that could do
damage to the cultures. So the cultures

547
00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:43.360
have to become more humanistic. They
have to focus on understanding what are the

548
00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:47.400
key drivers that will allow people to
get along, to be healthy, to

549
00:38:47.480 --> 00:38:52.559
be resilient, to stay engaged,
even to be innovative. And our belief

550
00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:54.880
is and this is the belief that
goes all the way back to the writings,

551
00:38:55.440 --> 00:39:00.360
to the to the ancient Greek philosopher's
writings is in Victor Fronkle as well.

552
00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:05.159
Is that meaning is that primary starting
that starting place for all this to

553
00:39:05.239 --> 00:39:09.800
happen. And there's where the Open
Way and the open formula which now comprises

554
00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:15.679
the foundation of meaningology comes into play. M hm. So let me just

555
00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:17.679
say up for the benefit really listeners
who haven't read the two books like I

556
00:39:17.800 --> 00:39:22.559
have, I want to really presence
something for our listeners as a possibility for

557
00:39:22.639 --> 00:39:24.960
you. So those of you who
are currently leaders or who are aspiring to

558
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:29.760
be leaders, imagine that you call
yourself the chief meaning officer, and your

559
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:32.920
job is as the leader, your
number one job is to champion meeting in

560
00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:37.719
the organization which will drive engagement and
resilience, health and well being and performance

561
00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:42.559
and innovation to the highest levels.
Imagine having that job and walking in So

562
00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:45.119
I just wanted for our listeners who
haven't read both of these books just to

563
00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:51.920
see that Christmas of possibility for themselves. And so to finish, go ahead,

564
00:39:51.920 --> 00:39:53.199
and I was going to have to
talk about the open Way and how

565
00:39:53.239 --> 00:39:55.960
to kind of maybe develop that in
organizations. Right, yeah, let me

566
00:39:57.079 --> 00:39:59.559
let me let me give it just
a few few examples just to kind of

567
00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:04.400
put it into context. And this
is not just for Greeks. Even though

568
00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:07.800
the foundation of this came out of
a Greek experience, I happen to be

569
00:40:07.880 --> 00:40:10.480
as you can to help my last
name, I'm of Greek heritage. I'm

570
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:15.960
very proud Greek Americans. So you
know this is not something though, that

571
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:19.320
is only for Greeks. This is
a you know, if anybody who's listening

572
00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:22.079
saw the movie My Big Fat Greek
Wedding, the reason we all resonated with

573
00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:25.079
it is because it was very universal
in its application. We could all relate

574
00:40:25.159 --> 00:40:28.679
in some way to that family.
Well, this is the same thing what

575
00:40:28.760 --> 00:40:31.400
we'd like to say about theope away
and meaningology. This is something that these

576
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:36.719
are universal values. These are things
that go and we practice this in many

577
00:40:36.800 --> 00:40:42.280
different cultures. So we know that
this works not just in Western society in

578
00:40:42.519 --> 00:40:45.000
North America, but it's it's it's
been applicable all around the world. So

579
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:47.920
let's just take others for example,
and we talk about others, we're talking

580
00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:52.679
about connecting authentically, which is the
way of connecting meaning with others. So

581
00:40:52.840 --> 00:40:55.039
think about it in the work context. All right. One of our practices

582
00:40:55.119 --> 00:41:00.280
in the OPA way is, for
example, connect with the village. Okay,

583
00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:04.199
The reason that comes to village is
because we're talking about how do people

584
00:41:04.239 --> 00:41:07.639
in traditional Greek villages relate to each
other? What are the characteristics of a

585
00:41:07.719 --> 00:41:09.519
true village? Think about it for
second, how many of us in our

586
00:41:09.599 --> 00:41:13.920
life have heard the concept we live
in a global village, or how many

587
00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:15.599
of us service people say, oh, it takes it takes a village to

588
00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:19.800
raise a child, but we don't
treat each other as villagers. And so

589
00:41:20.039 --> 00:41:22.840
part of the challenge of being a
person, either in an organization as an

590
00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:25.840
employee, as an associate, or
whether you're the leader, is that to

591
00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:30.960
what extent is your organization, your
workplace like a village, And if it's

592
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:32.559
not, what can you do to
help contribute to making it more so?

593
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:37.400
I mean just being able to say
good morning to people, just being able

594
00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:43.159
to listen to them in a way
that is authentically active listening, as opposed

595
00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:47.320
to just passing by and not really
caring what's bothering them who they are.

596
00:41:47.719 --> 00:41:52.320
I'll give you an example of that. We probably all have heard of the

597
00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:58.320
concept managing by wandering around m bwa
right, okay, and I've done enough

598
00:41:59.079 --> 00:42:02.559
keynote speeches, or I've actually on
stage have kind of walked across the stage

599
00:42:02.840 --> 00:42:07.000
pointing out to members of the audience
and saying, here's a good example of

600
00:42:07.079 --> 00:42:09.519
managing. By wandering around at a
typical organization, keep up the good work,

601
00:42:09.639 --> 00:42:14.559
whatever it is, whoever you are. It's basically showing that the manager

602
00:42:14.599 --> 00:42:16.000
of the leader, you know,
is saying, Okay, I want you

603
00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:19.679
to work hard for me, but
I really have no idea who you are.

604
00:42:19.880 --> 00:42:22.480
I don't know. You've been here
for twenty five years and you in

605
00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:23.880
you're in the cubicle just down the
hall, and I have no idea who

606
00:42:23.880 --> 00:42:27.199
you are. I mean, that
is not going to create a village,

607
00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:30.440
all right, And so the idea
is that what can we do to create

608
00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:34.119
connections between people through the village.
What can we do the same thing.

609
00:42:34.280 --> 00:42:38.079
There's another practice we have in the
under in the open way on hospitality.

610
00:42:38.159 --> 00:42:43.519
The Greeks are very well known for
their hospitality and being caring for people.

611
00:42:43.559 --> 00:42:50.519
Well, many people in our society
in western northwestern North America are really focused

612
00:42:50.559 --> 00:42:54.000
more on the transactions that take place
in an organization. You go to a

613
00:42:54.039 --> 00:42:57.639
restaurant, for example, you go
to the store, I mean, you

614
00:42:57.679 --> 00:42:59.719
know, can I help you?
You know, and you get the bill

615
00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:01.719
right way, or they're saying they
you know, they don't really treat you

616
00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:06.360
like you're you're really they really care
you know that you're there or not well.

617
00:43:06.559 --> 00:43:09.559
Part of the experience of hospitality working
and living in Greece is the fact

618
00:43:09.599 --> 00:43:12.719
that they do care. They don't
you know, they want you to you

619
00:43:12.800 --> 00:43:14.880
get, have one cup of coffee
and stay there for four hours. You

620
00:43:14.960 --> 00:43:17.639
know, It's less about the money, it's it's about the connection and what

621
00:43:19.039 --> 00:43:22.039
happens with that. It creates a
sense of loyalty and brand loyalty that wants

622
00:43:22.039 --> 00:43:25.519
you to come back. And I
remember in Chicago, I used to go

623
00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:29.199
to a Greek restaurant, just as
an example. That doesn't have to be

624
00:43:29.199 --> 00:43:31.960
a Greek restaurant to be anything,
but I remember this Greek restaurant on the

625
00:43:32.119 --> 00:43:36.519
by the front door, it had
a side it's facing outside that said welcome

626
00:43:36.599 --> 00:43:38.599
home. All right. I mean
the idea is you said, it's it's

627
00:43:38.679 --> 00:43:43.920
the hospitality can be applied in hospitals. They think about this. It comes

628
00:43:43.960 --> 00:43:47.480
from a saying Greek word roots hospital. Do we really treat patients and co

629
00:43:47.599 --> 00:43:52.559
workers, hospitals in some cases or
some of the sickest organizations on the planet.

630
00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:58.880
And so that healthy organizations has to
be focused in the health sector as

631
00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:01.039
well, all right, to make
sure that in fact, people aren't just

632
00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:06.199
treated like they are parts of a
machine. And so the idea behind hospitality

633
00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:07.960
is another way, you know,
to what extent you're treating people, so

634
00:44:08.079 --> 00:44:13.360
that it's not like, you know, the stereotypical laugh about government and people

635
00:44:13.400 --> 00:44:15.920
going in to get a license at
you know, a motor vehicles bureau.

636
00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:19.320
You know, that's not the kind
of hospitality. That's not the kind of

637
00:44:19.360 --> 00:44:22.000
connection that we're talking about in hope. And so that's something that all of

638
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:24.639
us can do, not just leaders. I mean the way you treat it.

639
00:44:24.760 --> 00:44:28.800
It's amazing if you smile at somebody
and treat them in a positive way,

640
00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:30.400
it's amazing. What kind of response
you get. If you come in

641
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:34.719
there with a bad attitude with your
head down, it's amazing what kind of

642
00:44:34.760 --> 00:44:37.639
response you get. Right, So, the idea here is that you are

643
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:39.960
in control of what you know.
Again, it's kind of like, be

644
00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:43.000
the change you want to see in
the world. Be the change you want

645
00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:45.719
to see in your workplace, and
that's part of what we're trying to do

646
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:49.360
here and see what impact it has. But that that's Oh, obviously leaders

647
00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:52.719
have responsibility as well, but it's
not just the leaders. I don't want

648
00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:55.920
to put all the blame and all
the responsibility on them anyway. So and

649
00:44:55.960 --> 00:44:59.880
then we've got to say how much
fat do we have? You got?

650
00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:02.280
You're so alex. I love this, I know him getting as much like

651
00:45:02.679 --> 00:45:07.440
you guys really like probably two minutes, three minutes to finish this part,

652
00:45:07.440 --> 00:45:09.199
and then we'll have to conclude.
I'll give you the last word. Okay,

653
00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:13.679
Well, you know it means it's
the same thing in terms of purpose.

654
00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:15.840
I mean purpose is an important element
for all of us because purpose,

655
00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:19.559
one of our one of our practices, and under purpose has to do with

656
00:45:19.639 --> 00:45:24.039
know thyself, and know thyself is
actually manifest itself in different ways. But

657
00:45:24.119 --> 00:45:28.599
one of them is to what extent
are people in your workplace wearing masks?

658
00:45:28.960 --> 00:45:30.000
Now? Do you wear a mask
when you go to work and then your

659
00:45:30.039 --> 00:45:34.079
real self is shown when you're out
of work? Well, if that's the

660
00:45:34.159 --> 00:45:37.079
case, then in a lot of
ways, you know you're not being authentic

661
00:45:37.199 --> 00:45:39.920
and you're not going to really create
the kind of engagement that we talked about

662
00:45:39.960 --> 00:45:43.840
earlier. So the idea behind know
thyself is, you know, one,

663
00:45:43.960 --> 00:45:46.199
know your own values, your core
values, your core escence, Explore it.

664
00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:50.079
It's ongoing. I mean the search
for meaning, you know, is

665
00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:53.760
something that we all ideally would like
to see manifest in our lives. And

666
00:45:54.159 --> 00:45:59.599
to what extent are we spending time
doing exercises? You know, today we

667
00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:01.920
talk mindfulness, but that's not enough. It's not enough just to be mindful.

668
00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:06.400
It's not enough just to empty your
mind. It's also to understand the

669
00:46:06.519 --> 00:46:09.400
deeper core, that that chrestence,
that true nature that will help drive you.

670
00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:14.719
And again, to use an English
word that has a Greek derivative,

671
00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:19.679
the word enthusiasm comes from two Greek
words and actually means manifesting the God or

672
00:46:19.719 --> 00:46:22.440
the spirit within. So in many
respects that people aren't enthusiastic at work,

673
00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:27.559
I mean they're basically not manifesting their
spirit. And to what extent we have

674
00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:30.440
a responsibility, I mean it's part
of why, as you can tell a

675
00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:32.239
little bit, I'm pretty enthusiastic what
what we're doing. But to us,

676
00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:35.920
this this, this is a ministry
of meaning. This is a ministry.

677
00:46:36.119 --> 00:46:37.400
All right, this is not just
I mean, this is not just a

678
00:46:37.480 --> 00:46:40.360
joke. I mean, you know, I mean my goal in life is

679
00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:45.320
to help people find that deeper meaning
and help them elevate their spirit, and

680
00:46:45.360 --> 00:46:49.400
then that manifests in attitude the a
you know to what extent, or embracing

681
00:46:49.480 --> 00:46:52.599
the fullness of life, which includes
you know that the val times. You

682
00:46:52.639 --> 00:46:55.719
know, this is not about positive
psychology, where the earlier version of positive

683
00:46:55.760 --> 00:47:00.679
psychology, there is now a positive
psychology two point zero. It's being floated

684
00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:02.519
out there in the in the in
the world professionally, and I have some

685
00:47:02.840 --> 00:47:07.639
close friends and colleagues or leaders in
that. But it's not just about the

686
00:47:07.719 --> 00:47:10.320
good times, because your happiness,
your search for happiness, is fleeting,

687
00:47:10.480 --> 00:47:14.440
and you know there's meaning even in
your low points in your life. As

688
00:47:14.440 --> 00:47:16.840
a matter of fact, in many
respects, your most soulful, meaningful times

689
00:47:16.960 --> 00:47:20.559
or when you're out of balance,
not when you're in balance, when you're

690
00:47:20.599 --> 00:47:23.039
not happy, because those are the
times you do deep soul searching. Those

691
00:47:23.119 --> 00:47:25.920
are the times when you find here
too, your true friends are you know,

692
00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:29.440
your true friends aren't there when you
have a lot of money and everything's

693
00:47:29.480 --> 00:47:31.920
going great, Your true friends are
the ones that show up when things are

694
00:47:32.039 --> 00:47:36.679
you know, starting to go down
the tubes. And so these are the

695
00:47:36.760 --> 00:47:38.800
kinds of things. And so to
what extent can you then use your connecting

696
00:47:38.880 --> 00:47:44.159
with your friends, connecting meaningful with
others in order to embrace life, the

697
00:47:44.280 --> 00:47:47.119
fullness of life, and raise your
attitude to be appreciative with an attitude to

698
00:47:47.159 --> 00:47:52.480
be resilient attitude, those are the
kings. So the combination of the interdependency

699
00:47:52.599 --> 00:47:57.800
of OP and A is what has
become part of our empirical data base.

700
00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:01.880
And so doing the assessment tools has
given us some epirical evidence about the old

701
00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:07.159
the p anda, the combination the
interaction effects and similar to Victor Francole's work,

702
00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:10.079
I mean attitude and what we wrote
about in Prisoners of Our Thoughts,

703
00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:14.079
you know, attitude is a good
starting place. I mean, if we've

704
00:48:14.079 --> 00:48:16.039
got a bad attitude, it's pretty
damn hard to connect with others, and

705
00:48:16.039 --> 00:48:19.920
it's pretty hard to engage with deeper
purpose. You gotta believe, You've got

706
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:23.719
to believe that you know your attitude
is in effect help drive you forward and

707
00:48:23.800 --> 00:48:28.960
upward. Beautiful way to finish,
Doctor Alex Potacos, It has really been

708
00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:31.280
my privilege to have you on the
show. This is a vitally important conversation

709
00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:35.320
to have, and I, like
you, am committed to bringing humanity back

710
00:48:35.320 --> 00:48:37.599
to the workplace and making it a
joyful place for everyone. So thank you

711
00:48:37.719 --> 00:48:42.199
for sharing your scholarship, your heart, your soul, everything with us today.

712
00:48:42.280 --> 00:48:44.920
It's been a privilege. Oh,
thank you very much for having me

713
00:48:45.400 --> 00:48:47.159
listeners. If you want to learn
more about doctor Alex Potacos and the work

714
00:48:47.199 --> 00:48:52.960
Key and Elaine Dundon do at the
Global Meaning Institute, visit Global Meaning Institute

715
00:48:52.239 --> 00:48:57.920
dot com again Global Meaning Institute dot
com. Last week, if you missed

716
00:48:57.960 --> 00:49:00.119
the live show, you can always
care to be recorded podcast, we were

717
00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:05.159
on the air with Waylee's show of
Omana Health. We talked about the insistent

718
00:49:05.239 --> 00:49:08.280
and irresistible nudge she felt for years
to step outside his comfort zone and do

719
00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:12.840
her a severe health scare and take
the leap to pursue what he calls his

720
00:49:13.039 --> 00:49:15.800
two point zero, a life and
career built on meaning and purpose. Very

721
00:49:15.920 --> 00:49:21.000
arresting and inspiring story. Next week, we'll be talking with Karen Millsaps.

722
00:49:21.000 --> 00:49:23.400
She is a resilience coach and founder
of the grow Flow community. She has

723
00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:28.320
an incredibly remarkable story of overwhelming pain, loss and defeat that put her on

724
00:49:28.400 --> 00:49:30.199
her path to purpose. See you
there. Remember that work is at least

725
00:49:30.239 --> 00:49:37.320
a third of our life, So
let's work on purpose. We hope you've

726
00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:40.400
enjoyed this week's program. Be sure
to tune in to Working on Purpose,

727
00:49:40.760 --> 00:49:46.119
featuring your host, Alice Cortez,
each week on the Voice America Empowerment Channel.

728
00:49:46.639 --> 00:49:50.760
This week, find your life's purpose
at work.