Marketing and Sales No Longer Sell - Customers Sell to Customers

WEBVTT

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortez. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working

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on Purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortez. Welcome back to

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the Working on a Purpose Show.
Thanks for tuning in again this week.

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I'm your host, Elise Cortez,
joining from Dallas, Texas, which is

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home based for me. This program
is all about helping people more meaningfully and

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productively connect with their work and equipping
organizations to do the same for their employees.

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So I bring on guests who have
a particular perspective or experience that I

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think expands the conversation, and I
often draw my meeting reshership been doing over

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the last fifteen years as well is
my own experience consulting, including the work

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I do today at Insignium, which
is a global management consulting firm. I'll

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get to the program in just a
moment, but a thank you to my

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media partner and sponsor jobbing dot Com. Jobbing dot com is the leading locally

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focused joboard in the nation, and
they are dedicated to helping employers find quality

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talent in their own backyard while giving
job seekers control over their search so they

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can find work close to home.
Great partnership. Thank you jobbing dot Com.

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Last week, if you've missed the
show live, you can always catch

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it via recorded podcast. We were
on the air with Mario McCracken, who

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is the revenue leader at move Medical, where he leads the sales, marketing

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and customer success efforts. Is also
a thought leader who writes on LinkedIn and

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for inc. We talked about the
art and science of building great teams and

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why doing so bolsters the impact leaders
can have. With us this week is

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Bill Lee, the founder and CEO
of the Center for Customer Engagement, which

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provides consulting and research services for senior
management, as well as a global peer

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community and educational services for customer engagement
implementation teams. Is the President of the

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Summit on Customer Engagement and the author
of The Hidden Wealth of Customers. We'll

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be talking about the criticality of cultivating
customer relationships for the bottom line financial health

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of a company, and also how
doing so contributes to increased employee fulfilment and

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engagement. I thought it was kind
of fun to think about how we can

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actually love and develop relationships with customers. On Valentine's Day, Bill Jos today

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from Dallas. Bill, welcome to
Working on Purpose. Great to have you,

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Oh, thank you. It's great
to be here. So I want

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to start by situating this episode for
our listeners. So you and I have

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talked many times, and the listeners
who've heard the show know that this show

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is about helping people more meaningfully and
productively connect with their work, and most

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people in some capacity ultimately work to
serve customers. So of course customers are

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the center of our universe, if
you will. So I want to start

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with that. Bill, and you
and I first met and talked about each

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of us being passionate about the work
that we do. Comment, if you

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will, on this common connection of
customers and why they're so important for all

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of us, no matter what kind
of work we do. Well. This

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is about as fundamental as you get
this skills. Back to Peter Brucker,

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who's said the purpose of the businesses
to create a customer and to serve a

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customer and the game a customer.
That's that's why we do what we do.

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And if you're in a firm and
you're you've got employees, or if

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you yourself are doing things that don't
that you know, the famous test is

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if you were to stop doing what
you're doing, now what any customer ever

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knows, And it's a good rule
to go by if you're if you're what

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you're doing doesn't pass that test,
then it's a good idea to rethink,

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maybe I should be doing something else. You know, I forget what I

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was reading lately. I try to
do some kind of reading every day for

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at least a half an hour,
and I was reading something about how if

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you're not always out there hunting for
customers, then of course you're you're you're

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you're losing the game. And that
makes a lot of sense to me.

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Now that's not just because of course
I hunt for customers, but and I

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look for them, but I do. I think that your message about everyone

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in the organization of being focused on
finding and cultivating those relationships is really important,

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which is another reason I wanted to
have you on the show, because

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it connects to how they experience their
work right, and it said just finding

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and cultivating. It's also once you
have found them and they become your customer

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and they're paying you money and they're
using your stuff. It certainly extends there

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as well well. And I'm going
to talk more about that kind of all

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of that, because you've got to
go a deep dive into that. But

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before I do, you your own
story of how you even got into this

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business is interesting. I know you've
been in all different kinds of work over

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your life. You've accumulated a lot
different kinds of experiences. But you told

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me the story when we first met
of how you got into this work,

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and I'd love for you to share
it with our listeners. Sure I was

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doing. I had a sign business
that was providing marketing, communications, consulting,

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and support to not see organizations and
primarily technology firms, larger technology farms

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like Intel, lucientth before their before
they emerged with Alcatel Compact, before they

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were required by Hewlett Packard and so
forth, and then and then later on

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Hewlett Packard and the Alcadel and so
forth, and they were these were people

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running what we're calling what are called
customer reference programs which I had never heard

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heard of before. So the more
I got to know them, the more

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I begin to think. You know, first of all, this is kind

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of interesting that these people spend their
entire day thinking about the customers that they

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have that are successful enough and willing
to be a reference or an advocate to

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take interviews with analyst firms, to
speak in industry forums and so forth about

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the success they've had with these companies. And it's like, WHOA, this

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is really interesting. And then as
the Internet came along and people were becoming

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more and more connected, and it
became easier and easier for prospects and buyers

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to avoid the sales people, you
know, and avoid the marketing spin and

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go directly find somebody who was a
customer online who's like you and won't spend

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to you, will tell you what
the real deal is. It became far

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too easy for perspective buyers to do
that. I mean, we're seeing it,

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of course now it's like second nature, but we're seeing with things like

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yelp. Amazon allowing customer reviews on
on Amazon's website was very key, very

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very essential to Amazon's ability to keep
customers on their site long enough to purchase.

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So anyway, we're seeing this really
everywhere. It's overhead now and it's

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like, this is really strategic stuff. So about but for you until that's

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six years ago? Amit at a
book proposal a Harvard Business Review for a

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book on the strategic importance of customers
like that? And I got to be

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with Harvard Business Review and that was
kind of That's kind of what got me

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going. You make it sound so
easy, Bill, I know it wasn't,

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and I know there was a lot
of steps involved. But when I

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when I look at the work that
you're doing, I think there's just many

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layers to it. And I looked, of course at some of the posts

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that you have on LinkedIn and Twitter
about companies going into these great links to

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create and execute very complicated programs that
are all about innovating new products and services

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to increase sales, etc. Competitions, challenges, all that good stuff that

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we're very used to. But yet, what you've done, if I've got

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this right, and you tell me
where I'm wrong, you've identified it a

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much simpler path toward cultivating what you
call marquee customer relationships instead. Do I

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have that right? And if so, tell us what you mean. Well,

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you know, when when companies,
let's say they launched a new initiative.

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So there's a lot of firms and
will in technology and software that are

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taking their software to the cloud and
they're they're they're shifting from you know,

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a one time purchase or a big
licensing fee purchase to monthly subscriptions. That

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is very, very disruptive to their
business model. So it's very important to

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them. It's extremely important to them
to have customers who are very happy they

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have in that business model. They
have to have high retention rates, so

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they have to make them successful and
then they have to get them talking about

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it. I mean, that's just
that's just become essential. So Markee customers,

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as you as you enter a market
and you're prioritizing, you know,

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when you when you watch a new
business division or a new business in general,

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you have to be very careful with
how you invest your money. You

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know, your marketing budget, your
sales budget, and so forth. So

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if you're just going after any customer, you know, I mean, salespeople

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tend to do this. So any
sale is a good sale, that's that

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can scatter your focus and that can
really be very damaging. It can be.

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It can it can put you a
really high risk of running out of

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mind before before you've really you know, tested and gotten your business store.

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It needs to be so to to
uh to you know, prioritize what customers

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are you going to go after.
You want customers who are very influential in

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your market, customers who won't uh
who who when when when they do something.

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If they're using your service, then
other people are going to know about

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it because they're influential. They're people
at other other customers, other buyers are

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watching. And they're also very innovative
themselves. That's part of what makes them

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very influential. So these are the
kinds of traits that Marquis customers have.

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And there was a very powerful research
study done by a guy named David G.

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Thompson about a decade ago. He's
a former Mackensey consultant, and what

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he wanted to do is understand to
get down of the dynamics of rapid growth.

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You know, what is it that
propels and companies like Microsoft, like

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Amazon, like eBay and so forth, what is it that they do that's

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different from those who don't achieve that
level of growth? And what he found

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the major there were seven factors,
but the most important, the major factor

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that permeated all the other most of
the others, was that they found and

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cultivated and won the business and the
long term relationship relationships with marquee customers.

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Sport. That's who you focus on, Okay. So to distinguish us for

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our listeners, Bill, So we
enjoy a global listening audience and we have

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listeners lots of listeners in California,
Texas, China, Japan. So some

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of the people might not be professional
salespeople. So I think what I would

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like to distinguish for them and with
you is what you're talking about is way

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beyond just a really good referral network, which seems very passive to me.

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Yes, yes, say more house
refermative work often means, like I mean,

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I've seen it to use, like
by professionals, maybe a consultants,

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or maybe small firms that sort of
band together and offer to refer each other,

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you know. Psych Okay, if
you have a client that m excuse

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me that that you know you've got
a good relationship with UH and you find

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out that they need my service,
what it is that I can do for

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them, then you refer me and
I do the same for you. Is

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that what you mean by a referral
network? Yes, and beyond that as

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well, Bell, I can tell
you that for me, I've certainly been

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on the lovely receiving end of a
phone call when somebody calls and says,

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hey, Elise, I got your
name a number from so and so who

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was in one of your leadership programs, and she said it was really great

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and thought, I thought maybe we
could do something similar here can we talk?

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So it's an actual clients, This
is a call from someone who took

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it was one of your customers.
Yeah, so let me let me lay

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it out for you. So this
would be this would be someone who doesn't

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know me, who's never met me, who's called me because they were having

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a conversation with a client who was
in a program that I led or facilitated,

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and that person had a really good
experience and was having a conversation about

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the program to this person who called
me saying hey, it was really great

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value, you know, if you're
looking for something or whatever. That piqued

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her interest. She shared her number
with this person who then called me,

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and I was on the lovely receiving
end of that. Now, these are

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not marked, they're not mark quis, but it's referral, and it's nothing

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that I really did proactively, right, And you're right, I mean that's

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that's so that's a referral from a
client, and that's that's huge. That

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is part of this. So just
imagine if you intentionally cultivated clients in the

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particular market who were very prominent.
People in the market knew them like they

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were the uh you know, they
served in the professional association, they were

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their business model was respected. People
like to pay attention to what they do

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because you know, they're very good. So imagine you have somebody that's more

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at that level, uh than some
you know some well you know some some

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customer who may not be at that
level. And it's still great that they

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do that, and you want to
encourage that. But but if you if

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you really sought out the marquees or
some people call them m vps in your

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market and and and we're able to
get them doing that sort of thing,

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thinking how powerful that would be the
people in the market. And if you

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you know a lot of a lot
of my clients, for example, will

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get a customer like that and I'm
thinking of Citrics is a really good example

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of a firm Citric Systems now just
playing Citrics. Uh. They they very

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much cultivate really marky customers for fan
for example, you know customers like JP

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Morgan, uh, Miami Children's Hospital. Uh. You know companies that are

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highly well known and highly respected in
their markets, and they're very good about

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cultivating them. So so that's that's
what I'm talking about. Make sure that

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you're going after that that level,
that quality of a customer. Another word,

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another word that I use for them
is the eagles in their market.

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You know, the winners, the
ones that are that are known for being

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all they can be. They're innovative, they're on the cutting edge. Everybody's

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watching them. That's who you want
to target and go after. And if

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you're if you're not going yet,
this is a question that's it's sometimes some

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tough love that I give the clients, but if you're not going after that

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kind of customer, you might think
about, well, why are we in

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this business? As you were talking
about, the image I got in my

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head was something with a big megaphone
behind it or in front of it,

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a blasting out the message I got
that that it would be impossible not to

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notice that message almost is that what
you're saying? No what In fact,

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it's it's sort of like, uh
like maybe the reverse of that. It's

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like somebody talking quietly, you know
whatever, but people are flocking. It's

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like there were these old commercials.
This is I'm dating myself, but this

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commercial that EF Hutton used to put
to put on when when EF Hutton talks,

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everybody listens. Got it, got
it, got it, got it

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great. So it's like you don't
have to go out, you know,

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you know, the the megaphone and
going out and and uh, you know

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all this uh you know all this
marketing where you're ubiquitous, you're everywhere and

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you're really like being loud, so
to speak. That's not the idea of

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the ideas. And have somebody that
people in your market want to listen to.

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They want to know what they're doing, and they'll seek that out.

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When Citrix is doing like let's say
it's annual, uh you know, it's

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like it's it's a yearly sales kick
off or whatever, and the CEO is

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there, and the press is there, the media is there. You know,

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it's it's people want Citrix is respect
of themselves. And then when they

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put a customer on like you know, a major global bank or a major

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hospital, they put them up on
stage and start talking about what they've achieved

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and what they're doing. You know, people are gonna listen. I got

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that and perfect. Isn't that just
a perfect time to go for a break?

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I'm your host, Elise right with
that, I mean, that is

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a powerful point. Let's go on
a break. I'm your host, Elise

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Cortez. We've been on the air
with Bill Leye, who is the founder

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and CEO of the Center for Customer
Engagement, which provides consulting and research services

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for senior management, as well as
a global peer community and educational services for

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customer engagement implementation teams. He is
the president of the Summit on Customer Engagement

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and the author of The Hidden Wealth
of Customers. He joins us to day

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from Dallas, Texas. We've been
talking a bit about this whole notion of

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customer advocacy. We'll talk more about
it after the break. Stay with us,

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We'll be right back. Friend us
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empowering the world. Voice America Empowerment
Alice Cortez is a speaker and engagement and

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development catalyst. She designs and delivers
professional development, leadership and engagement workshops and

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can bring her expertise to your organization. She will help ignite meaningful development within

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your workforce that will increase employee engagement, performance and retention. To learn more

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or to invite a lease to speak
to your organization, please visit her at

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www dot Elise Cortez dot com.
She would welcome the opportunity to help get

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your employees working on purpose. Follow
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edge of social media. Should you
keep up? Life can be confusing at

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time. There can be uncertainty,
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249
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If you understand how to take the
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and learn to be clairvoyant. Listen
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Voice America Empowerment dot com. This
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To reach our program today, please
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for one. You may also send
an email to Elise ali se at Elise

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00:20:06.319 --> 00:20:12.279
Cortez dot com. Now back to
Working on Purpose. Thanks for staying with

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us, and welcome back to Working
on Purpose if you're just joining us.

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My guest is Bill Lee, the
founder and CEO of the Center for Customer

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Engagement, which provides consulting and research
services for senior management, as well as

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a global peer community and educational services
for customer Engagement Implementation Teams. He is

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the president of the Summit on Customer
Engagement and the author of The Hidden Wealth

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of Customers. Bill has spoken to
a wide variety of business audience audiences such

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as the International Advertising Association, the
Business Marketing Association, the American Marketing Association,

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Forced to Research, the Net Promoter
Annual Conference, the Veritas President's Forum,

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the Marketing Executives Networking Group, and
it goes on and on and on.

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The man really does know his stuff. It's so awesome to have you

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on, Bill, Welcome back,
all right, So to be here,

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Yeah, it's just it's a really
you know, there's a lot that we

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that I want to peel back for
our listeners because, as you and I

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talked on the break, some of
the people listening, this might be a

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really really novel concept for them,
this notion of cultivating marquee customers, And

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so I want to make sure that
they really walk away with a good understanding

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of what we mean and why it
might be something for them to check into.

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So to get to that point,
why might companies be reticent to adopt

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a customer appscure approach, like like
we're talking about here, Well, I

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think there's there's actually a couple of
questions there. Most of them get that

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they need some sort of customer advocacy, by which I mean customers providing references

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like we talked about earlier, and
referrals and talking to the media, you

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know, their industry, the industry
media for their vendor, and sometimes they

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be speaking at the industry events and
so forth. So I think most people

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get the imports of that. But
then I was talking to a very accomplished

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chief customer in Silicon Valley. There's
actually well he's just he's a very accomplished

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guy. There's no question, and
he thought when I raised the issue of

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a Marquis customer, excuse me,
he actually was sort of recoiled a little

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bit. And I asked, it
sounds like, you know, I sort

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of fell silent, and I said, you know, I said, gosh,

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is there something that that I'm missing
here? You know, are we

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not connecting on this issue or what's
the deal? And he said, well,

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a Marquis customer is somebody like Walmart. Right, They're a big park

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and famous brand, you know,
gigantic farm, but nobody wants you know,

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nobody wants them for a customer because
they're a vendor killer. They'll squeeze

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your margins, they'll they'll you know, they just they have no regard for

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their vendors. And uh so I
explained to him, well, that's not

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a Marquis customer. So it's it's
helpful. I mean, when I talk

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about this topic, I always know
I describe what a Markey customer is.

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They're influential in the market. Other
buyers will listen when they talk. They're

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highly innovative themselves. It will help
you be innovative. And they also regard

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you as important to their business.
You're not just like another vendor or a

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commodity. They regard you in some
way as important to their business, their

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business strategy. So that's what they
are. And then I'm quick to point

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out, you know how this doesn't
mean famous brands. Now they might be,

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but not necessarily. And then Walmart
is a perfect example of a famous

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brand that would would almost certainly not
be Markey customers. And then and then

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some people think, well, is
it must be our biggest revenue customer,

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And it's like, maybe it might
be, but the traits are the ones

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that I just describe it. Those
three traits those are the stomers that will

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give you leverage. And if you
if you're a lot of companies and especially

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sales departments are focused on the next
sale and on that big you know,

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that big kill. You know,
somebody that's going to be, you know,

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a six or seven figure contract.
They focus on that and they think,

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well, that must be a Marquis
customer. And it's like, well,

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they'll pay you a lot of money, you know, and that's great,

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But true Marquis customers will give you
a leverage and value five x ten

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X will more than just the money
that they pay you, because of the

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referrals, the branding that they help
you achieve, the notoriety and awareness that

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they help you achieve, and so
forth and so on. They're the leverage

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of They're the customers that provide real
leverage beyond just what they're paying you.

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I get this bill, and what
I'm really really getting present too, is

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just how beautiful the strategy of this
whole thing is. And certainly I can

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imagine it takes an incredible amount of
effort and finesse to be able to land

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a client like this, a customer
like this, Yes it does, no

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which is where you come in right, people get lucky. Yeah, yeah,

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and just quickly because I do want
to I want to talk next a

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little bit more about the insights of
how this affects a company's culture. But

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just you know, to presences for
our listeners. You know, when you

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are working with with clients, I'm
sure that you have a gamut of services

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that you can provide, but are
you in part coaching them on how to

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be able to go after clients like
this? I have started to and the

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last well, I'm right now ramping
up my pa I've done research. Part

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of what we do is research,
and I've noticed in the research that we

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do are also verys saying double case
sites that we come up with that it

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seems to be that it's committed,
it's confirming Thompson's research that yes, the

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companies that are doing for example,
sit I mentioned Citrics. They're not hugely

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well known but probably well own technology
firm that happens to be quite good at

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cultivating Marquis customers as I was talking
about, and they recently went through some

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rather tough times, but then they
finally there were another software firm that needed

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to go to the cloud, that
needed to dramatically change the platform for their

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software and so forth and so on, and they were struggling a bit with

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this, but they've made it through. Their revenue is back up and growing

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again. They rebounded very well,
and I would, you know, I

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would, I would not hesitate to
say that they will lay their long term

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relationships with the Marquis customers that they've
cultivated over years was a big help of

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that. M Well, I'll say
one thing that we say very often here

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an Insignium, and that is that
relationship is the foundation of all results.

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And so what you're talking about certainly
jives with just the general work that we

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do too. And then related to
that bill you started to get here,

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and I really want to bring this
home for our listeners who are also looking

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at how this topic is relative to
how they can more meaningfully and productively connect

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with their work. One of the
things that you said when I first met

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you is that companies that focus on
strong customer advocacy also often have very vibrant

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cultures that encourage their employees to unify
and solidarity of their service. There's something

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about that that being focused on these
kinds of customers and in this kind of

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a capacity that's very energizing and has
an effect. So I would be interested

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00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:40.079
to hear what is a company,
what does this kind of a company culture

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00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:44.759
look like? What are employees doing? And saying that distinguishes them? Well,

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00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:48.359
it's the way I look at it
is. I think I'll get a

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00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:52.839
new paper that I've just come out
with. It's called growth by hanging out.

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And what it means is it's like
a basic piece of wisdom that was

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known since we were kids, and
that is it matters and and and then

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when we started having kids of our
own, it matters who you hang out

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with and if you've I use a
story of some high school boys that I

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work with up of my church when
when when I meet with him every week

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and what I called life groups,
and when one of them gets off on

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00:28:21.079 --> 00:28:25.160
the wrong track or he's not shown
up, uh, and I find out

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00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:27.440
what's what's going on? I finally
say, where's John. Uh, we'll

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use the name John. What's happened
to him? And I'll here's things like,

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well, you know he's cutting class, and somebody else will say,

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00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:38.079
uh, you know, I think
I think his grades are dropping. And

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then someone else will say, well, I saw him the other day hanging

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out with some pretty sketchy looking dudes. And then the other kids in the

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group will say five friends. That's
a little code phrase we have and what

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it means is you are the average
of your five closest friends. So if

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you're hanging out with you know,
losers, if you're hanging out with uh,

377
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:06.640
you know, kids with bad attitudes, kids that are kind of nihilistic

378
00:29:06.680 --> 00:29:11.119
about their lives and so forth,
well guess what you're gonna You're gonna go

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00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:14.799
south. And that's why that was
their conclusion on what was happening with John.

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00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:19.480
He was hanging out with sketchy kids. The average of his five you

381
00:29:19.519 --> 00:29:23.559
know people that he was the average
of his five closest friends had gone down.

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00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:26.960
And it works in the other way
too. If you hang out with

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00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:32.599
kids who are excelling, uh you
know, the winners, kids who are

384
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:34.359
on a path to be all they
can be, well that's going to lift

385
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:38.319
you up as well. I mean, look at the Olympics. You see

386
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:45.039
athletes all they do these incredible things
together, and if you look back on

387
00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:48.920
their on their history and their development, they've been hanging around the very best

388
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:53.240
as much as they can. They
hang around the best uh, and that's

389
00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:56.440
what pushes them to get good as
well. Well, that's same concept,

390
00:29:56.519 --> 00:30:03.880
that's Thompson's research. That's same concept
works for organizations. So you want,

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00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:07.880
if you're cultivating and you'll just take
any customer, uh, you know,

392
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:11.519
if you're if you're if any customer, if every sale is a good sale,

393
00:30:11.799 --> 00:30:14.359
and you're taking just any customer that's
easier to make a sale to,

394
00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:19.200
then you're not necessarily surrounding your organization
with the best people, with the best

395
00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:23.839
customers, the ones that will push
you in a good way. But when

396
00:30:23.880 --> 00:30:30.640
you do, at least when you
do target and cultivate those kinds of customers,

397
00:30:32.839 --> 00:30:37.839
then here's what happens. First Off, they keep you on your toes

398
00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:42.759
in ways that organizational change efforts by
themselves cannot do. Right, if you've

399
00:30:42.799 --> 00:30:48.119
got the CEO or your or your
HR people, uh you know, uh,

400
00:30:48.640 --> 00:30:53.960
you know working on some culture change
initiative or some reorg initiative that's going

401
00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:57.319
to get those get a lot of
resistance. Everybody that's been involved in those

402
00:30:57.359 --> 00:31:02.960
now those about that. But if
you get the voice of the customer,

403
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:07.079
if you've got actual customers, especially
your best marquee customers, asking for those

404
00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:15.480
changes that resistance goes away. Wow, you know what, Now, go

405
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:19.400
ahead, I'll comment afterwards. Go
ahead. So that's well, I was

406
00:31:19.400 --> 00:31:25.319
just gonna say, that's that's that
is the I think that's the most powerful

407
00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:30.039
motivator to motivate people to change.
It's hard to argue with what customers,

408
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:33.960
especially your best customers, we want. How are you going to how are

409
00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:37.680
you going to argue against that?
M hm you You've just given me something

410
00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:41.119
here, Bill, and I'll share
it with all of us here, and

411
00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:44.880
that is that. You know,
obviously, we as a firm do organizational

412
00:31:44.920 --> 00:31:48.759
transformation kind of work. We do
work with an organizations through the leaders all

413
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:52.240
the way through the organization to help
them change. And we do that around

414
00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:55.480
some kind of a major initiative that
they need to embrace in order to move

415
00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:59.039
the business forward. And what I'm
reminded of when you when you just spoke

416
00:31:59.039 --> 00:32:01.960
their Bill is one of the clients
are working on right now is absolutely working

417
00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:07.680
around and through a very large important
customer request initiative and we're doing a breakthrough

418
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:14.279
project with them. So this breakthrough
project really requires them to change radically the

419
00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:19.640
way they work together as an organization
to create products and bring them to markets

420
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:23.640
to serve this particular customer who's asked
for this particular change. And we're talking

421
00:32:23.759 --> 00:32:28.920
marching orders here. So I really
get when you when you talk about what

422
00:32:29.119 --> 00:32:32.319
if the customer helps bring up your
game and that that's what ripples through.

423
00:32:32.400 --> 00:32:37.480
How change is how you act and
how you how you serve. That is

424
00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:39.920
a perfect example, and that's I
totally get what you're talking about now that

425
00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:45.920
you brought that together and in those
terms, I know there was. One

426
00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:53.359
of my favorite stories is a business
transformation the Hewlett Packers pulled off back when

427
00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:59.599
Cauli feeling with CEO. This was
in the early two thousands and they were

428
00:32:59.640 --> 00:33:04.759
at this uh. You know,
for those who know their history, they

429
00:33:04.759 --> 00:33:08.319
were about as dysfunctional and organization as
you can get. This was unlike to

430
00:33:08.920 --> 00:33:16.039
the early two thousands and their their
enterprise business, the business itself to big

431
00:33:16.119 --> 00:33:24.480
giant corporations. Uh. They decided
to pull off a very very aggressive and

432
00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:31.880
ambitious organizational change change in their positioning
and so forth. They wanted to go

433
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:37.519
from being a technology provider to these
enterprise customers. They wanted to be a

434
00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:43.960
trusted advisor. So uh, now
they don't sounds great. What the key

435
00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:47.720
thing was that they talked to their
leading customers. They started this initiative with

436
00:33:47.799 --> 00:33:54.119
just two of their enterprise customers,
but obviously these were two extremely important enterprise

437
00:33:54.200 --> 00:34:00.519
customers, and they started with them
and they basically worked with a customers to

438
00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:02.240
say, how will this look?
What is it you want from us?

439
00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:07.039
Uh? You know, how can
we create more value? How can we

440
00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:09.679
achieve this trusted advisor? Uh,
you know, well with you and a

441
00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:14.239
lot of the things these customers want. And something like that, at least

442
00:34:14.800 --> 00:34:19.639
is sometimes pretty daunting. It's like
whoa, yeah, but that's the kind

443
00:34:19.639 --> 00:34:22.840
of push you know that Olympic athletes
give each other. Right, you're booking

444
00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:27.000
with the besture. You want to
allow them to push you in that direction.

445
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:32.039
So with customers asking and wanting this, uh, you know, organizational

446
00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:37.440
resistance melting there, you know.
And then then when they got those wins,

447
00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:43.480
they rolled it out again to another
five or seven enterprise customers with similar

448
00:34:43.519 --> 00:34:49.559
results, with big gains and revenue
from these customers. Again, they were

449
00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:52.639
able to do it very quickly and
you know, this wasn't taking years.

450
00:34:53.199 --> 00:34:58.199
And then finally with that success and
all that you know, customer input that

451
00:34:58.280 --> 00:35:01.280
they responded to and it was train
translating beautifully to the bottom line. They

452
00:35:01.360 --> 00:35:06.440
rolled it out globally for the entire
business after that. So this is a

453
00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:09.800
huge win for human packers back when
they were in the middle of all this

454
00:35:09.880 --> 00:35:15.440
dysfunction. M that's for me.
It's a test, you know, that's

455
00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:20.159
a test for how powerful, uh
you know, if you will the voice

456
00:35:20.199 --> 00:35:23.559
of the customer, even in an
organization that was suffering like they were.

457
00:35:25.159 --> 00:35:28.519
I got it very clearly, because
again, so much of the work that

458
00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:31.760
we do is around helping our clients
produce breakthrough results, in other words,

459
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:37.119
things that were not seen as possible
without you know, being able to write

460
00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:40.719
the compass on and rivet it on
that particular promise or possibility that they created

461
00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:45.719
for themselves. And very often it's
around producing a revenue target, satisfying a

462
00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:52.039
client, changing its the its place
in the marketplace in terms of its numerical

463
00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:55.840
ranking. Those kinds of initiatives,
and you're right, when we align the

464
00:35:55.840 --> 00:36:00.599
people around those kinds of things,
everybody's hearts and minds are all focused on

465
00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:04.719
that, and you're right, the
resistance melts away. Yeah. I mean,

466
00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:07.199
one thing I like to do when
people talk about we want to be

467
00:36:07.239 --> 00:36:12.800
we want to go from being number
four number two, or you know,

468
00:36:13.159 --> 00:36:19.639
or goals like this. My first
question is, can I talk to some

469
00:36:19.719 --> 00:36:23.000
of your customers you're leading customers,
and I use, I basically use the

470
00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:30.840
definition of marquee customers. Let me
talk to them, and so I'll talk

471
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:36.920
to them and I'll ask them what
they want from the relationship where they're where

472
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:38.840
they're not getting it, and so, you know, I'll go into some

473
00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:45.360
depth of them. And if what
they want doesn't align with these with this

474
00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:49.760
goal the management has decided to come
up with it, then uh, you

475
00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:52.480
know, I go back and I
say to the management, this is a

476
00:36:52.519 --> 00:36:57.440
red flag. Why are you doing
this? If customers don't care about it,

477
00:36:57.519 --> 00:36:59.599
or if it's not aligned with what
they really want from you, why

478
00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:05.800
are you doing Why I spend innergeer
cycle on it exactly? Yeah, all

479
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:07.599
right, well that is another good
place for a break. So hold that

480
00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:10.039
thought in that breath for just a
second. There, Bill, I'm Elice

481
00:37:10.079 --> 00:37:13.559
Cortez, your host. We've been
on the air with Billy, the founder

482
00:37:13.599 --> 00:37:17.519
and CEO of the Center for Customer
Engagement, which provides consulting and research services

483
00:37:17.559 --> 00:37:22.960
for senior management as well as a
global peer community and educational services for customer

484
00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:27.440
engagement implementation teams. He is the
president of the Summit on Customer Engagement and

485
00:37:27.440 --> 00:37:30.119
the author of The Hidden Wealth of
Customers. He joins it today from Dallas,

486
00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:32.679
Texas. After the break, we're
going to talk about his summit,

487
00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:37.000
as well as a bit more about
how what we've been speaking about connects to

488
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:42.039
how employees enjoy their work in a
more meaningful fashion. Stay with us,

489
00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:55.920
we'll be right back. Friend us
on Facebook to keep up with what's empowering

490
00:37:55.960 --> 00:38:02.800
the world. Voice America Empowerment.
Elise Cortez is a speaker and engagement and

491
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:08.920
development catalyst. She designs and delivers
professional development, leadership and engagement workshops and

492
00:38:09.039 --> 00:38:14.800
can bring her expertise to your organization. She will help ignite meaningful development within

493
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:19.960
your workforce that will increase employee engagement, performance and retention. To learn more

494
00:38:20.119 --> 00:38:23.679
or to invite Elise to speak to
your organization, please visit her at www

495
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:29.360
dot Elise Cortez dot com. She
would welcome the opportunity to help get your

496
00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:35.119
employees working on purpose. We're making
it easier to listen to the Voice American

497
00:38:35.199 --> 00:38:38.159
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498
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500
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502
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503
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504
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505
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:28.559
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506
00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:31.920
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507
00:39:32.199 --> 00:39:47.960
Visit Star Style Radio dot com.
Star you Lange. Follow us on

508
00:39:47.960 --> 00:40:01.280
Twitter for more great ideas at Voice
America Empowerment. This is working on Purpose

509
00:40:01.360 --> 00:40:06.480
with Elise Cortez. To reach our
program today, please call in to one

510
00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:10.400
triple eight three four six nine one
four one. Again that's one triple eight

511
00:40:10.519 --> 00:40:15.559
three four six nine one four one. You may also send an email to

512
00:40:15.760 --> 00:40:22.599
Elise ali se at Elise Cortez dot
com. Now back to working on Purpose.

513
00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:29.320
Thanks for staying with us, and
welcome back to working on Purpose if

514
00:40:29.320 --> 00:40:31.440
you're just tuning in. My guest
is Bildie who is the founder and CEO

515
00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:36.960
of the Center for Customer Engagement,
which provides consulting and research services for senior

516
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:40.280
management, as well as a global
peer community and educational services for customer engagement

517
00:40:40.280 --> 00:40:45.360
implementation teams. He is the president
of the SEMIT on Customer Engagement and the

518
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:47.880
author of the Hidden Wealth of Customers. So before the break, we were

519
00:40:47.960 --> 00:40:53.440
talking a bit about really how this
focus on customer advocacy can impact and strengthen

520
00:40:53.840 --> 00:40:59.199
culture and unite people. What I
want to do next to finish that conversation,

521
00:40:59.239 --> 00:41:00.360
if you can, Bill, is
I want to connect the dots on

522
00:41:00.400 --> 00:41:05.800
how serving customers and serving them well, especially Markey customers who really bring up

523
00:41:05.800 --> 00:41:08.559
your game, contributes to more meaningful
connection to work. So if you would

524
00:41:08.599 --> 00:41:10.880
comment on that, and then I
know I've got a couple of things to

525
00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:17.159
add to it as well. Sure
you know a great example then is Salesforce

526
00:41:17.960 --> 00:41:22.519
originally Salesforce dot com now just Salesforce. This is you know, they provide

527
00:41:22.519 --> 00:41:29.000
a cern platform, and they are
the ones that invented cloud, cloud computing,

528
00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:35.320
cloud software and so forth, software
as a service. And it was

529
00:41:35.320 --> 00:41:38.960
Mark Benioff and Salesforce that invented all
that and what they were doing. It

530
00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:44.960
was in response to the enterprise software
farms like Oracle and SAP, who were

531
00:41:45.039 --> 00:41:52.239
just serving their customers badly. They
were just very briefly, they would charge

532
00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:57.880
sometimes millions of dollars for their enterprise
software to these to these customers, and

533
00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:01.320
then once they dumped it off and
installed it, it's like from from from

534
00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:05.840
here on, you're on your own. That was their attitude. It was

535
00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:08.639
just horrible the way they were treating
these customers, and finally they started to

536
00:42:08.920 --> 00:42:14.599
kind of rebel against this. Well, Benioff responded to that by starting he

537
00:42:14.679 --> 00:42:16.719
was he had worked, he was
a star at the Oracle, and he

538
00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:22.960
went off and started Salesforce in his
apartment there in San Francisco. And uh

539
00:42:23.400 --> 00:42:28.239
so his when he was starting this
with his with his original employees and so

540
00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:35.239
forth. They were so jazzed by
getting customers and then working with them every

541
00:42:35.239 --> 00:42:38.679
step when they developed a product or
you know, some some version of software

542
00:42:39.679 --> 00:42:44.280
or whatever, or modifications and so
forth, and as they were developing their

543
00:42:44.280 --> 00:42:50.400
platform, they loved to do it
in an iterative process with the customer to

544
00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:54.960
make sure that they're that the customers
really getting exceptional value from the software.

545
00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:59.639
And that was so motivating to the
to the employees, right, It wasn't

546
00:42:59.639 --> 00:43:01.119
just better standing up. He's a
big, huge guy. He's like,

547
00:43:01.199 --> 00:43:06.159
he looks like a tackle in the
NFL. And wasn't just him standing up

548
00:43:06.159 --> 00:43:07.599
and demanding this, you know,
and say that's all we gotta do.

549
00:43:08.039 --> 00:43:15.559
It's like they were working directly with
customers to achieve exceptional customer service at customer

550
00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:20.880
outcomes, and that's that's what is
there that you can do that's more motivating

551
00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:25.360
than that. I got that and
what I was thinking of when we were

552
00:43:25.400 --> 00:43:30.400
when we were connecting these thoughts is
very much along those same lines about how

553
00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:34.639
motivating that is. The other piece
that I thought was really interesting is when

554
00:43:34.639 --> 00:43:37.239
you think about what I know from
my own research, Bill, I mean,

555
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:39.599
I've been investing in how people experience
meeting in their work for fifteen years

556
00:43:39.679 --> 00:43:45.199
and I'm working on a book from
the research as we speak. One of

557
00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:49.280
the things that people find really motivating
is this feeling of being competent and so

558
00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:51.960
if they feel like, wow,
I'm really doing this work well, I'm

559
00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:55.280
serving this customer really well and look
at this as an amazing customer. There's

560
00:43:55.320 --> 00:43:59.880
something about knowing that you're good at
something, that you nailed something that really

561
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:04.519
is very motivating as well. Also
like right, and then also there's that

562
00:44:04.599 --> 00:44:08.480
notion of being held to a standard
that as you say, these these these

563
00:44:08.480 --> 00:44:13.119
clients will teach you something and cause
you to work at a higher level.

564
00:44:13.159 --> 00:44:16.000
There's something about that too that's also
very motivating. For people to be held

565
00:44:16.039 --> 00:44:20.199
to that standard and know that they
can actually meet it. That's also motivating.

566
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:25.320
Yeah, agree, totally. Yeah, it's good stuff. So this

567
00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:29.639
is this is this is fun to
talk about and and on the heels no

568
00:44:29.800 --> 00:44:34.280
less you I know you're working furiously. You've got your twenty eighteen summit on

569
00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:37.920
Customer Engagement coming up right around the
corner in March. I want to talk

570
00:44:37.960 --> 00:44:40.239
about that a little bit here,
Bill, because I think it will help

571
00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:45.880
also our listeners understand what it is
that you're up to and how your work

572
00:44:45.000 --> 00:44:50.880
impacts the clients you're working with,
and really also again just how you're socializing

573
00:44:50.920 --> 00:44:55.360
these efforts. And since I've I've
always wanted to actually create some kind of

574
00:44:55.360 --> 00:44:59.800
a conference. At first I got
to ask, why did you start hosting

575
00:44:59.800 --> 00:45:01.360
this? This is your second year, why did you start hosting it?

576
00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:07.039
Well, when I first started working
with these folks, I would they you

577
00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:10.519
know, I was working with them, and I got to be known among

578
00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:15.119
several of these these people that were
running these old customer reference programs, and

579
00:45:15.159 --> 00:45:19.039
then they would start asking me,
can you Especially when the Internet was coming

580
00:45:19.280 --> 00:45:22.639
coming along, everybody had to you
know, their their their company, you

581
00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:25.239
know, up of the Internet and
so forth, and they would start posting

582
00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:30.719
customer reference stories, you know,
success stories. And then at some point

583
00:45:30.760 --> 00:45:34.480
they're doing videos with these customers and
so forth, talking about, you know,

584
00:45:34.559 --> 00:45:37.400
how well they're being served by these
companies. And then they started looking

585
00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:44.079
at other people's websites like the let's
say, somebody at Intel would look at

586
00:45:44.679 --> 00:45:49.360
Alcntel Lucien's website and so that's pretty
cool. I'd like to talk to whoever

587
00:45:49.440 --> 00:45:52.159
is running the reference program over to
Alctel Lucien. So they would contact me

588
00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:57.880
for this, can you introduce me? And so I started doing this,

589
00:45:58.440 --> 00:46:01.760
and after I heard this enough,
I then said, don't you want some

590
00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:07.199
kind of professional association or something that
where you get together why he said,

591
00:46:07.519 --> 00:46:10.440
The answer was always no, but
if you ever hear of one, let

592
00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:17.199
me know I'm there. So we
started. I partnered with a software provider

593
00:46:17.360 --> 00:46:23.480
to this audience that I was working
with and who had a pretty good sized

594
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:29.159
database. And also I parted with
another firm that had experience and event planning,

595
00:46:29.159 --> 00:46:31.559
which I knew nothing about. And
we put on a show and we

596
00:46:31.639 --> 00:46:37.519
got, you know, almost twice
as many people as we expected. I

597
00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:40.199
charged a lot more than people said
I should, because otherwise, you know,

598
00:46:40.239 --> 00:46:45.559
why do it? And so we
were off and that was first of

599
00:46:45.559 --> 00:46:50.760
one. It was two thousand and
five in Scottsdale, Arizona, and we've

600
00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:55.079
been doing it every since. It's
you know, when I listened to you

601
00:46:55.119 --> 00:46:59.599
talk, Bill, what I get
and I want the listeners to catch this

602
00:46:59.639 --> 00:47:02.239
too. It strikes me that you've
got what I call a really good sniffer,

603
00:47:02.400 --> 00:47:08.360
meaning that you can really be present
to conversation, possibility and opportunity and

604
00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:13.719
create something you You have a unique
ability, it seems to be able to

605
00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:17.000
listen to what's going on in the
marketplace and to respond to it with an

606
00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:21.480
offering that has value that people want
to pay for, and I think it's

607
00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:25.519
really remarkable. Well this is this
this well, I guess we could say

608
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:30.960
this is an example I did.
There's been sometimes where where it's all flat

609
00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:36.239
in its face, you know.
But that's how you learn, That's how

610
00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:40.159
you that's how you learn and adapt
and get better. I feel like,

611
00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:45.000
if I'm not failing also once in
a while, that I'm probably not pushing

612
00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:49.840
hard enough appreciate the limits of the
boundaries hard enough. But I appreciate that

613
00:47:49.840 --> 00:47:54.639
comment. It was one of those
things that didn't work out pretty well well.

614
00:47:54.679 --> 00:47:59.880
And I also appreciate the the the
the the embrace of failure. And

615
00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:02.000
one of the things that we talk
about within our firm is that the book

616
00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:07.480
Black Box Thinking, which encourages failure, frequent failure in order to find even

617
00:48:07.519 --> 00:48:10.519
greater successes. So I echo that
and appreciate that too, and and also

618
00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:14.480
the humility with which you are delivering
that. So thank you for that.

619
00:48:14.559 --> 00:48:17.239
It's just great for all of our
listeners to get that as they're thinking for

620
00:48:17.280 --> 00:48:22.159
themselves individually, Bills. Some people
are listening to the show because they're trying

621
00:48:22.159 --> 00:48:25.280
to reinvent themselves. They're trying to
consider how to bring up their own game

622
00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:30.920
and sales and so what you're saying
about really putting yourself out there is and

623
00:48:30.360 --> 00:48:35.079
you know, risking failure is important
for them to hear and remind them that,

624
00:48:35.480 --> 00:48:37.559
look, look what you've done.
So it's just and that's so much

625
00:48:37.559 --> 00:48:40.480
of what I try to do in
the show bill is to really really empower

626
00:48:40.519 --> 00:48:45.760
my listeners with information, resources,
inspiration so that they'll go after their dreams.

627
00:48:45.880 --> 00:48:49.039
So thank you for saying that the
way you did it was great.

628
00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:54.719
So back on the summit, what
I also find fascinating about what you're doing

629
00:48:54.840 --> 00:49:00.760
is you know, you've created a
platform to let to let your your clients

630
00:49:00.760 --> 00:49:04.039
and your associates socialize about the same
stuff that you care about, which I

631
00:49:04.039 --> 00:49:08.159
think is just brilliant. It's like
a moving excellence. Right. So I'm

632
00:49:08.199 --> 00:49:12.920
interested to understand who attends this summit
and what do they actually get from the

633
00:49:12.960 --> 00:49:19.000
experience. Well, these are the
these are the folks that implement. They're

634
00:49:19.079 --> 00:49:22.000
at the implementation level. They tend
to be senior manners, managers, directors

635
00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:27.480
of what are often called customers.
There's some of them still call customer reference

636
00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:32.199
programs. What customer advocacy programs or
customer marketing programs and so forth. These

637
00:49:32.239 --> 00:49:37.280
are the people that implement these programs. They you know, they set up

638
00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:42.880
the operation, They develop relationships with
their with their customer advocates and hopefully with

639
00:49:42.920 --> 00:49:50.840
their marquee customers. They work with
them to get out and tell their story

640
00:49:50.920 --> 00:49:55.320
and get interviewed by the market and
so forth. And it's this resource,

641
00:49:55.880 --> 00:50:05.960
these customers who are both successful and
influential in the marketplace. I think I

642
00:50:05.960 --> 00:50:10.199
think it's clear that these are these
are the most important resources, growth resources

643
00:50:10.239 --> 00:50:14.360
that companies have these days. And
they're and they're in charge of that.

644
00:50:15.639 --> 00:50:19.920
They're in charge of developing those relationships. So that's what we do when we

645
00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:24.719
talk about the various issues that they
run into. You know, there's always

646
00:50:24.719 --> 00:50:30.480
in any profession, there's always pain
points. You know, there's always puzzling

647
00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:34.679
situations. Then they get together and
uh and talk about them, and we

648
00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:37.519
and most of the presenters, I
mean, I lead off in the keynote

649
00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:43.199
and then we get we get a
couple of one or two high profile people.

650
00:50:43.280 --> 00:50:45.880
We've had Don Pepper's, uh,
Fred Reichel, these are these are

651
00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:52.119
big names in the customer. Customer
strategy world. And then but most of

652
00:50:52.119 --> 00:50:55.159
them are are their peers. These
are people they're doing very interesting, very

653
00:50:55.159 --> 00:51:00.599
good work. Uh. They'll they'll
submit a proposal to present to me.

654
00:51:00.760 --> 00:51:04.199
It's kind of an honor for them
to get to do that, which which

655
00:51:04.239 --> 00:51:07.719
I'm honored by of course. And
uh, and that's what most other times

656
00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:13.800
spent is just with their with their
peers. And that's when when when I'm

657
00:51:13.840 --> 00:51:19.800
at this event, the most excited
I see people is when they they're surrounded

658
00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:22.920
by peers who understand what they do. It's a very human reaction. They

659
00:51:22.960 --> 00:51:28.599
don't always feel understood or appreciated in
the organizations, and that are with a

660
00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:32.639
bunch of people that understand what they
do. They understand their common pains and

661
00:51:32.679 --> 00:51:37.599
their common frustrations and their joys,
you know, and there their victories.

662
00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:42.639
They are able to share all that. So it's pretty satisfying. I in

663
00:51:42.920 --> 00:51:45.360
liking it too. You know,
Wow, I found my people. This

664
00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:50.400
is my tribe, right and there
is something very empowering about that. Yeah,

665
00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:53.199
and you and your team brought that
together. I just I really applaud

666
00:51:53.280 --> 00:51:57.599
that, Bill, and I just
really admire that fantastic you know, the

667
00:51:57.599 --> 00:52:00.679
the your comment earlier, but kind
of being in the moment and listening.

668
00:52:01.360 --> 00:52:06.519
Uh. It's it's really so important
that that you go. I see a

669
00:52:06.519 --> 00:52:09.400
lot of people they'll go into a
sales call, they will go into a

670
00:52:09.480 --> 00:52:15.119
meeting where they're trying to get budget
for their program, and they're all,

671
00:52:15.599 --> 00:52:21.480
you know, just there. They're
all focused on what they want, and

672
00:52:21.519 --> 00:52:22.960
that's not where the that's not where
the big win is going to come from.

673
00:52:23.039 --> 00:52:28.119
It's gonna it's going to come from
understanding what the other person, you

674
00:52:28.159 --> 00:52:32.320
know, the buyer, the prospect, your boss, the board, it's

675
00:52:32.440 --> 00:52:37.119
understanding what they want to need,
being very very clear on that. And

676
00:52:37.360 --> 00:52:44.400
uh, I mean I've seen I've
seen training where people are trained on connecting.

677
00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:47.599
There's some very good work being done
now on training people to connect with

678
00:52:47.599 --> 00:52:51.639
with others, with their you know, with their peers, with their with

679
00:52:51.639 --> 00:52:53.719
with the people they're leading, with
their leadership, and so forth, how

680
00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:59.719
to connect one on a human basis. And when you when you see people

681
00:53:00.320 --> 00:53:04.800
approach a situation in the usual way, like a salesperson who's trying to land

682
00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:08.400
a big deal, and you see
them approach that and they're nervous, They

683
00:53:08.840 --> 00:53:12.760
you know, they forget what they're
going to say they're worried they'll blow it,

684
00:53:12.920 --> 00:53:16.360
you know, because they're focused on
getting the deal. So the training

685
00:53:16.519 --> 00:53:20.519
is that, Okay, let's try
to you know this all this is being

686
00:53:20.599 --> 00:53:22.920
videotaped in a workshop, so it's
a safe environment. And they say,

687
00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:27.559
okay, let's try it again,
and this time I want you to think

688
00:53:27.599 --> 00:53:34.000
about how can you find out what's
on this guy's mind. And the transformation

689
00:53:34.440 --> 00:53:38.400
is remarkable. All of a sudden, they're relaxed, they're they're much more

690
00:53:38.719 --> 00:53:44.199
you know, they're much more charismatic, they're much more they're connecting much more

691
00:53:44.320 --> 00:53:50.519
with the other person by getting working
to understand and asking questions and really listening

692
00:53:50.960 --> 00:53:54.519
and stop worrying about whether this fits
with my agenda. Let's just understand their

693
00:53:54.559 --> 00:53:58.719
agenda so powerful and then when you
do, when you know, when you

694
00:53:58.719 --> 00:54:01.559
adopt that mindset, than guess what, you know, you're going to start

695
00:54:01.679 --> 00:54:07.400
understanding these people that you want things
from. I'll love it, Phil,

696
00:54:07.480 --> 00:54:08.960
And that is a perfect way to
finish the show. We are out of

697
00:54:09.000 --> 00:54:12.760
time, and that couldn't have been
a better way to close the show.

698
00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:14.960
Thank you so much for joining me
today. It's been great to have you

699
00:54:15.000 --> 00:54:17.679
as a guest. Well, thank
you, lie great, I've really enjoyed

700
00:54:17.679 --> 00:54:21.760
it. If you want to learn
more about Bill Ye and the working his

701
00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:23.840
team do at the Center for Customer
Engagement, or his books or the upcoming

702
00:54:23.880 --> 00:54:30.599
someone on Customer Engagement, visit their
website at Center for Customer Engagement dot com.

703
00:54:30.760 --> 00:54:32.800
Join us next week when we talk
with Henda Samaran about her newly released

704
00:54:32.840 --> 00:54:37.239
memoir called Grit Under My Nails,
one woman's extraordinary journey to discover it's all

705
00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:40.440
possible, including survival. See you
then, and remember, work is at

706
00:54:40.519 --> 00:54:50.519
least one third of our life,
so let's work on purpose. We hope

707
00:54:50.559 --> 00:54:53.320
you've enjoyed this week's program. Be
sure to tune into Working on Purpose,

708
00:54:53.480 --> 00:54:59.159
featuring your host Alis Cortez, every
Wednesday at six pm Eastern Time, free

709
00:54:59.199 --> 00:55:02.920
pm Pacific Time on the Voice America
Empowerment Channel. This week, find your

710
00:55:02.960 --> 00:55:05.519
life's purpose at work