Leading in Business for Sustainability in the 2020s

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortes. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working

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on Purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortes. Welcome back to

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the Working on Purpose Show. Thanks
for tuning in again this week. I'm

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your host, doctor Elise Cortez,
joining you Lai from Dallas, Texas,

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which is home base for me.
If you've been tuning in for a while,

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you know this program as an inspirational
thought leadership platform that advances the conversation

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on living and working with passion,
inspiration, and purpose. I'm committed to

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helping create a world where business and
capitalism are a force for good, constantly

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working to address the immense number of
problems society faces, serving all stakeholders,

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certainly it's employees among them. The
Gallup Organization reports that eighty five percent of

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the global workforce does not want to
go to work on Monday or whenever.

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The ship starts. Let's change that
together and instead make work an enriching part

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of life that ignites passion and expresses
meaningful contribution through inspired leadership that elevates business.

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Betweaking these conversations, I hope you
walk away with something that changes the

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way you think or that you can
merely put to use. Much of the

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content we discuss on this program is
a reflection of the work I do.

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So as you listen, if you
catch a glimpse of anything I can do

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to help, go to my website
at least quotes dot com and use the

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contact me feature to message me at
any rate. I'm glad we're connected,

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and thanks for listening. Now onto
this week's program. With us today is

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David Grayson, Emeritus Professor of Corporate
Responsibility at Cranfield's School of Management, and

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from two thousand and seven twenty seventeen
it was the founder director of the Dougherty

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Center and Professor of Corporate Responsibility.
David is the author of seven books and

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has contributed to a further ten.
His most recent book is All in the

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Future of Business Leadership. With Chris
Coulter and Mark Lee, we'll be talking

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about sustainability and the future at business
Leadership. You joint to today from central

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London where there's eleven pm past his
bedtime. David, welcome to working on

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Purpose. Thank you very much for
having me. You're so welcome and as

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I said, you sound so spry
considering you should be well into your zase,

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So thank you. He'd like it
to be put of the conversation.

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Well, I know a fairmaut about
you, David, because I've been on

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your website, seeing some of your
blogs, of course read your book.

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But our listeners don't know you quite
the way that I do. So let's

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start this way. Since I'm an
identity and meaning researcher, I want to

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start with how you introduce yourself on
your website, which is David Grayson dot

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net. It's a great website,
by the way, it's so Chris,

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but you list yourself as a writer, speaker, advisor, educator, chairman,

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campaigner, human. What a lovely
way to summarize yourself. So would

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you just chime in and just share
what it is that you're up to today

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in presence for yourself for our listeners. Well, this will you like the

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website and one of the things that
I'm personally very passionate about is getting better

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recognition and help for the millions of
people who are looking after a family member

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or a friend. In my country, we think that there's now almost nine

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million written who at any one time
are caring for a loved one. That

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might be an elderly parent, as
I was looking after my mum before she

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died for a number of years.
It may be a partner with a long

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term condition. It may be a
disabled son or daughter or sibling or whatever.

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In America it's well over forty million
people at any one time are caring,

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and particularly right now during the coronavirus
pandemic, the pressures on those family

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and friends for caring for a loved
one are even greater, perhaps because they're

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normal kind of care workers who support
them can't come because they themselves are sick

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or self isolating, etc. So
I'm chair of a UK charity called Cares

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UK. It's part of my volunteering
and so one of the things right now

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that I'm particularly trying to do is
to raise the profile through social media supporting

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the work of our charity staff bilding
a fantastic job, trying to keep information

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and advice getting out to the millions
of UK cares. What a beautiful way

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to start the program, David,
and thank you for your sensitivity about just

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where we are in the world during
this pandemic and sheltering in place. In

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speaking with my friend and colleague Paul
Skinner yesterday, he told me that they're

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in the UK that they're only allowing
people at one time a day for exercise,

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and there's just a lot of restriction
happening. And then when you add

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in the element of caring for someone
else and all of this beyond what you

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need for yourself, it's another level
of strain and being a human. As

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you say, thank you for starting
the show with such a presence and empathy.

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So maybe related to that is one
of the things that you care about

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the most, or maybe some of
the things you care about the most.

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What I want to talk about today, of course, is is your keen

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eye for sustainability David. So first
it's helpful to understand why is this topic

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so important to you? What is
it about this that so grabs your attention

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when that mind of viewers could go
many other places. So I think one

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of the most important challenges for our
world is how will nine to ten billion

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people be able to live at least
reasonably well within the constraints of one planet

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by the middle of our century,
because that's ultimately what we're talking about when

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we talk about ideas of sustainability and
sustainable development. And I'm passionate about the

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positive contribution that businesses large and small
can make as businesses to tackling the issues

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where those are environmental or social or
economic challenges. And I've been working on

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these topics for many, many years, and I'm really keen to get more

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people in business to see the potential
to do good business and also to contribute

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to sustainability. Jeeven, you probably
don't knows about me, because I don't

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know we spoke about it in our
introductory call. But I want to presence

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a couple of things so that you
understand that I also appreciate very much your

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topic. One. I'm from Oregon
here in the United States, which is

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known to be much more of an
environmentally friendly state. So I grew up

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hugging trees and eating granola and loving
every moment of it. And then when

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I moved to Rio de Janeiro,
Brazil in nineteen ninety one, I found

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myself sitting in and among the Rio
earth summits, So I found there were

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people from all over the world that
came to Rio and eighteen ninety one,

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and they were focused on what do
we do about the environment, how do

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we handle this? Such that I
then was motivated to focus my master's thesis

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on the social, economic, and
political impacts that might be affecting the Amazonian

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deforestation. So I just want to
presence that, so you do recognize that

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I do have a keen interest in
this as well, and beyond what it's

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doing, how we've been able to
raise our awareness in this pandemic. This

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has been a part of my focus
for years too, although not to the

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same level and focus as yours.
Right right, It's just interesting. So

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okay, so your book, and
again, what I appreciate about your book

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since I'm writing my own, is
it's very crisp. There's a lot of

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information in there, It's very well
organized, and it's easy to read.

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I think you say somewhere on your
website, David, that you have a

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penchant toward non academic and non difficult
to get through pros. Is that right?

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Absolutely? So I'm not an academic
by background. I was headhunted relatively

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late in life. I was fifty
two when I was approached to go to

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Cranfield, one of our leading business
schools, and was asked to set up

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a center for corporate responsibility. Most
of my career has been very much as

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a practitioner, as a campaigner for
the idea of responsible business and corporate sustainability,

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and so I've very much come up
to all of these issues from how

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can we help people in business to
understand these issues, how can we equip

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them better to be able to do
something positive about it in ways that will

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be good for the business as well
as the society. So I have no

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time for really abduse academic articles which
you have to keep going to the dictionary

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to work out what the heck do
they mean? That I think is the

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complete opposite of what good communications should
be about. And beyond that too,

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Aside from staying in the academic realm
here you also are quite focused on a

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timeline. So one of the things
I found quite compelling about your book,

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David, is that it focuses on
how we address these sustainably sinability problems now

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through twenty thirty. And that's the
data that I learned in your book that

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aligns with major global environmental goals,
including the Paris Agreements and the UN Sustainability

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goals. So help us understand how
they're connected to those goals, how this

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data is connected to those goals well. The nation sustainable development goals, the

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global goals that were set in twenty
fifteen were in fact developed with close collaboration

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from lots of businesses around the world. And I'm one of those people who

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believe very strongly that we only will
achieve the fulfillment or anywhere close to the

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fulfillment of these crucial goals around good
health, around good education, around clean

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energy, and so on, with
the really strong involvement of business. So

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many of us think that the twenty
twenties, even before the current coronavirus pandemic

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and all of the challenges that that
is going to create going forward, even

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before that, the twenty twenties are
going to be a really stretched decade in

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terms of how business needs to step
up to the plate, if you like,

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in terms of the sustainable development goals, and of course part of a

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crucial part of those goals is making
progress on the crucial question of the climate

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emergency. I couldn't agree more with
your statement that business is well positioned to

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really carry that torch. And I
do make mention of that too in my

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book as well, and I see
so much conversation around that here in the

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United States. There's a lot of
conversation, David, through organizations like Conscious

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Capitalism and just Impact, there are
also very much elevating that message. So

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it's I feel like there's a tremendous
momentum that's been raised around all of this

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business being unleashed to really help solve
societal problems. I think that's right.

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And if you take a perspective not
just for the last two or five years,

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but look back over the last ten
or twenty years, then I think

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the recognition of what is business there
for. Yes, of course business has

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to profitably provide goods and services that
people want and need, but the ways

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that goes about doing that, the
ways it treats its employees, how it

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deals with it its suppliers, how
it impacts on the environment. The economists

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have this language about how you internalize
the externalities, in other words, the

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polluter must pay. We have to
get across the idea that business must be

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part of the solution to these really
big challenges. Otherwise I think I don't

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wish to sound to doom laden,
but otherwise we are going to face some

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really really sticky future. Well,
in addition to yes, well, I

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completely agree with what you're saying that
the polluter must pay. And the great

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thing about it, and this is
me channeling doctor Raj Sosodia, who is

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the co founder of the Conscious Capitalism
Global Movement, who was on earlier this

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month. You know, business is
extremely well positioned to be able to do

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that because of its vast ability to
harness its resources in terms of humans as

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well as economic resources. And so
why not? Why not? Absolutely?

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And the exciting thing is that there
is a twelve trillion dollar business opportunity if

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businesses across the world can contribute to
the achievement of the sustainable development goals.

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So this is not just the right
thing to do, this can be the

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profitable thing to do as well.
And I think increasingly a lot of employees

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recognize that and want to work for
companies that are taking these issues seriously and

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the finding profitable ways of doing so. Absolutely, and again we're very much

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lockstep here on this, David,
Now going back to your book. One

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of the things that I thought was
quite interesting as a researcher myself is that

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you say the book was inspired by
collective wisdom and also through the respondence to

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the Globe scan Sustainability Leader Survey,
which I'm ENVSLF because it sounds like,

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if I heard this writer read this
right, you've been able to have access

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to this since nineteen ninety seven,
Is that right? Absolutely? And in

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the field which is barely twenty years
old, having twenty years worth of longitudinal

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data is very, very valuable.
Glow Scanner Sustainability came together back in nineteen

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ninety seven to start doing a survey
of global experts in corporate sustainability, so

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people inside businesses, people in the
media, in civil society, in regulators,

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in academia and soult and ever since
nineteen ninety seven, every year these

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two organizations have asked a series of
questions to several thousand experts across the world

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in global corporate stainability, ask them
about who they think are the leading companies.

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And what is fascinating is the way
in which the different companies were regarded

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as being leaders at different points through
that twenty year time horizon. So in

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at the end of the nineteen nineties
when the survey began, you had some

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companies like at three a M.
And actually some of the big oil companies

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like Shell and BP who were regarded
then as being leaders because they were amongst

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the early companies identifying systematically the material
impacts that they had. Over time,

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of course that's shifted as we got
a better understanding of what we really mean

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by by sustainable business. But we
have this incredibly valuable resource of the Globe

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scan Stability Leaders Survey as the starting
point. My two co authors Chris and

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Mark that you referenced earlier, they
run respectively, GlobeScan and Sustainability. So

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that's the connection. Wonderful and what
you said there, So this is an

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ongoing stream of information or a survey
response you're getting from them. Yes,

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okay, yes it is. So
the twenty twenty survey goes into the field

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next month and who answer is this? Who did you said earlier? But

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the people who answer this are people
working in corporate sustainability in large companies across

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the world, but also people who
are teaching these issues in universities and business

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schools, people who are working in
NGOs, in civil society across the world,

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as well as some regulators, people
in the public sector, and also

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in the media covering business and society. So it's a real wisdom of the

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crowd, but the informed crowd quite
like the company you keep. And on

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that note, let's grab our first
break. I'm your host, doctor Earles

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Cortez. We're on the air with
David Grayson, who is the Emeritus Professor

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of Corporate Responsibility at Cranfield School of
Management. He's the co author of All

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in the Future of Business Leadership.
He joined it today from Central London.

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We've been talking a bit about how
he got interested in sustainability. After the

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break, we're going to dive a
little bit deeper here and get you more

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into the concept itself and how you
can get involved. Stay with us,

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we'll be right back. Alise Cortes
is a speaker and engagement and development catalyst.

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She designs and delivers professional development,
leadership and engagement workshops and can bring

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her expertise to your organization. She
will help ignite meaningful development within your workforce

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that will increase employee engagement, performance
and retention. To learn more or to

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invite Elise to speak to your organization. Please visit her at www dot Elise

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Coortes dot com. She would welcome
the opportunity to help get your employees working

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on purpose. This is working on
Purpose with Elise Cortes. To reach our

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program today, send an email to
a lease Alise at Alisecortes dot com.

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Now back to working on purpose.
Thanks for staying with us, and welcome

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back to working on purpose if you're
just joining us. My guest is David

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Greson. He's the emeritus Professor of
Corporate Responsibility at Cranfield School of Management,

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and from two thousand and seven to
twenty seventeen who was the founder director of

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the Dohui Center and Professor of Corporate
Responsibility. He's the author of seven books

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and has contributed to a further ten. His most recent book is All in

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the Future of Business Leadership. I'm
your host Alis Cortes. So, David,

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before we get further in, now
that we've had a chance to presence

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a little bit of conversation about sustainability, I think about this time we should

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actually talk about what do we mean
by corporate sustainability. So you say in

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the book, a corporate company's delivery
of long term value and financial, environmental,

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social, and ethical terms which you
say, I think aligned with the

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definition of the United Nations Global Compact. But is there a simpler way to

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describe this term. So essentially,
it is about minimizing the negative social and

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environmental and economic impacts that the business
has and also looking to maximize the positive

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social and environmental and economic impacts of
the business. So this is very much

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about value e creation. It is
about profits through the way in which you

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find solutions to the problems of people
and planet. Now that is I like

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that better, David. Let's go
with that. Okay, I just like

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that. And before we go to
the next one, let me just grabe

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a quick question from Darla. She's
inquiry minds want to know. She's in

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the chatroom. She wants to know, David, how did you find the

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time to write so many books?
And how long does it take to write

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a book? Anyway? Oh gosh, well, each one was different.

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I've had some super co authors on
most of the books, including particularly christ

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and a Mark on all In.
And I mean, I think if you

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if you see that this is a
way of spreading ideas, spreading the word,

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then it is something which is important
to try and do. I agree.

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That's why I'm working on mine too, and it is. I hope

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it gets easier as time goes on
day. But that's all I have to

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say as first one, and the
crucial things are to establish, as with

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any other activity, So what's the
purpose of what you're doing? So what

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is the objective that you have with
this book? Who's the target audience?

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And critically, what do you want
them to think and feel and above all

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do as a result of reading the
book. If you can sort all that

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out, then obviously there's the hard
slot doing all the research, pulling everything

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together, and then writing it and
rewriting it. And did I mention rewriting

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it? What I'm doing all in
the writing phase actually scarily only took six

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weeks, but that was incredibly intense, and every chapter went through at least

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seven redrafts during that time. But
that was possible because we've done so much

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discussion and research amongst ourselves and with
a whole variety of company people beforehand.

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Well, that certainly helps me.
I hope it does you too, Darla,

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So thank you for asking the question. Okay, so let's go back.

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One of the things that you see
in your book that's also quite compelling.

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This is only, as you say, a twenty year industry. So

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you describe three errors in the book
relative to sustainability, Will you describe them

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for us? Yes? Indeed,
so we think the first few years it

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was really about harm reduction, about
companies looking to see how can we reduce

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our negative social and environmental and economic
impacts. And then around two thousand and

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four two thousand and five you started
to have some companies looking much more strategically,

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how do we integrate with our core
business strategy, not just in terms

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of risk mitigation and reduction, but
also looking for new business opportunities. So

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how we start to see more of
an alignment with the business strategy. And

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most recently, we think that companies
are now starting to think, at least

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the leading ones, much more fundamentally
about purpose and we see this as therefore

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the purpose driven era. Okay,
now then there's the regenerator era, which

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is what we're coming into now.
Yes, so we think that potentially in

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the next decade or so, that
if what we are saying is right about

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the ways in which businesses will have
to adapt to the external forces that are

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out there. So the challenges of
the systemic risks to the financial system and

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to business from climate change and biodiversity
loss, the systemic risks to business and

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the financial system from hyper global inequalities. Then we do believe that we may

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well see and this is our kind
of working shorthand shorthand at the moment,

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I was on a call with my
two co authors only yesterday where we were

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exploring what we were going to do
next in terms of starting to flesh out

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more of our understanding of what the
next era might look like. But to

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be very clear, we're only at
the foothills in terms of a relative small

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number of companies yet really rethinking and
defining what is our core purpose when you

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talk about regenerative really quick, I
don't want to take too much time on

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this because we have so much more
to cover. But what I think about,

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David, is what seems to be
happening right now in the smack dab

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middle of this pandemic is since we
are we're not doing business the way that

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we normally do. The factories aren't
necessarily working the way that they were in

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the past. I'm hearing reports about
being able to see fish in the venice

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canals that the pollution level in Los
Angeles and China is such that the air

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is actually very vastly different in how
it looks, behaves, and is breathed.

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Do you know anything about this?
I've been seeing those reports too,

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at least, but it seems to
me the challenge is how do we get

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those kind of positive things without all
of the negativity associated with the global shutdown?

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Right, So the regenerative approach has
to be so much more creative than

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this absolute kind of lockdown that so
much of the world is currently experiencing.

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But what it does show us is
when we recognize a really intense, extreme

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crisis, then humankind can move at
incredible speed and scale. So I guess

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the question that many of us are
already thinking about in the context of building

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back better after the pandemic, what
are the things that we will need to

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be doing differently in order to achieve
Yes, that better air quality, that

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better quality of water, and so
on, but without the kind of lockdown

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that we've had to have for this
pandemic, right absolutely. And two that

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in maybe this will help us learn
more here Because I know Kyle's aren't in

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the chat room. He wants to
hear more about how we can find the

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right solutions, and I think we
can address that as we go on with

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some other other planned content. But
I want to know personally more about the

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circular economy and the clothes look to
business. I don't know. I've heard

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those terms, but I don't really
know what they mean. Okay, So

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many people describe the kind of the
current economic model as being a linear model.

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In other words, you take,
you take out of the ground,

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you make, you manufacture things,
so take make, and then you use,

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and then you simply throw away.
And that's the kind of the linear

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economy that we have been in in
many parts of the world for the last

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few decades. The circular economy,
by contrast, is where there is much

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more reutilization of products, much more
re using of parts in the manufactured goods

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and and so on, so much
less waste. So how do you How

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does say, a major retailer reduce
its food waste? How does a manufacturer

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reduce its waste to landfill? Those
are the kind of the practical elements of

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circle economy. Of course, it's
it's much more creative, it's much more

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exciting than that, because it's about
how you redesign products from stratch how you

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work with your supply chain to come
up with very very different ways of making

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things. So, if we take
a company that's not too far away from

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from from where you are in in
in in Texas, you have a company

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which is a great American success story
called Interface, the floor coverings business started

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by the late great Ray Anderson back
in the nineteen seventies in the state of

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Georgia. He built a billion dollar
business and then twenty years into the business,

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realized that in fact, the way
he was doing business was simply not

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sustainable, and literally, almost overnight, having read a book and realizing there

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was a different way of business,
he committed Interface to a different business strategy,

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a different business model that would be
much more regenerative and thinking much more

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about how to be much more sustainable. So there are interesting examples already there,

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including in the US, which show
how the circle economy can work in

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practice. That is so exciting to
me to hear that, David, that's

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so exciting, and that might get
us to our next thing, which maybe

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can help Kyle with his question.
I wanted you to share briefly. I

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mean, your book is treated us
very very very distinctly, But I want

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to talk about the five attributes that
you say underpin the current best practices and

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leading companies and represent the essential qualities
for corporate sustainability and leadership now through twenty

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thirty and you list them as purpose, plan, culture, collaboration, and

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advocacy. Will you share a little
bit about each one of those for us,

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presence them for us? Yes.
Indeed, So, in addition to

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having the twenty years worth of the
Globe Scan Sstability Leaders Survey as the basic

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foundation for all in we went to
interview people who were running the companies that

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were regarded as leaders in sustainability at
the time that they were regarded as the

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leaders. So we didn't just interview
all current CEOs or all current chief finance

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officers or company chairmen or chief sustainability
officers today, but people who were running

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those businesses when they were regarded as
leaders. So we had the privilege of

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talking to some fifty business leaders in
different parts of the world, and we

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drew on also their insights, their
expertise, not just what they had done,

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but what they thought was now needed
as well. And from all of

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all of that, from the experience
that my co authors and I've had with

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many different companies around the world.
We pulled together what we think are these

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five critical attributes. So you will
be pleased to know at least that it

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starts with purpose. I am,
this is the purpose of the business.

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One of the companies that we looked
at in some detailed Unilever, the g

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fast moving consumer goods company. And
what's particularly interesting about Unilever is the way

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that they took their original purpose from
the eighteen eighties, which was to make

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cleanliness commonplace, and they brought that
up to date into the twenty first century

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and said their purpose now is to
make sustainable living commonplace, so brilliantly echoing

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back to their very strong heritage and
their founding purpose. So we think that

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the foundation attribute for going all in
is having a purpose which is authentic.

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So people inside and outside the business
have to be able to see that what

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they experience of that business corresponds to
the purpose as defined. So it has

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to be authentic. It needs to
be inspiring, because otherwise why on earth

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do you have it? And it
has to be practical, actionable, So

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it needs to help companies and particularly
company boards and management teams to take the

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really tough decisions. And I think
what is interesting now is the way in

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which you have, say the companies
which are going for B corp status,

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the b lab movement, where those
companies are looking very particularly at having a

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purpose which addresses the interests and the
needs of different stakeholders. So that's the

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foundation attribute around purpose. The second
thing, of course, it's no good

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at having a great purpose if that
doesn't then translate into what the company actually

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does. So is there a really
comprehensive sustainability plan or strategy that covers not

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just the core business itself, but
also extends into its supply chain, and

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we think in the future increasingly will
also extend the other part of the value

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chain in terms of engaging customers as
well. So if you want some interesting

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examples of really comprehensive plans around sustainability, in my country, the retailer Marks

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and Spencer with their Plan A for
sustainability because there is no Plan B when

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it comes to sustainability, or companies
in the States like Walmart with the way

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in which they've set some really ambitious
targets around their Project Gigaton around carbon strategy.

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Those are practical examples of these kind
of comprehensive plans, and increasingly the

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effective plans or strategies are those which
correspond to the overall corporate strategy. So

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it's not a matter of having the
sustainability plan or strategy on the one hand,

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but in fact the core business strategy
being something very different. Again,

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to take the Unileva example, it's
taken them ten years from when they first

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launched the Unilever Sustainable Living Plan back
in twenty ten that this year they now

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are saying that they are bringing them
the course strategy of Uniliva and that sustainable

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living plan into a single overall or
strategy. So inspiring. David, if

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I if I can stop you for
just a second, I want to treat

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the other three, but we do
need to grab our last break, so

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hold that spot for just a moment
if we can. I'm your host,

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Alis Cortez. We're on here with
David Grayson, who is the Emeritus Professor

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of Corporate Responsibility at Cranford School of
Management. He's the co author of All

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in the Future of Business Leadership.
He joined us a day from Central London

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after the raak. We'll talk more
about those three of their attributes that he

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started speaking about Stay with us,
We'll be right back. Alise Cortes is

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a speaker and engagement and development catalyst. She designs and delivers professional development,

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00:35:07.639 --> 00:35:12.760
leadership and engagement workshops and can bring
her expertise to your organization. She will

397
00:35:12.760 --> 00:35:17.320
help ignite meaningful development within your workforce
that will increase employee engagement, performance and

398
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:22.440
retention. To learn more or to
invite Elise to speak to your organization,

399
00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:28.480
please visit her at www dot elisecortes
dot com. She would welcome the opportunity

400
00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:38.440
to help get your employees working on
purpose. This is working on Purpose with

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00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:44.119
Elise Cortes. To reach our program
today, send an email to a lease

402
00:35:44.440 --> 00:35:57.480
alic at elisecortes dot com. Now
back to working on purpose. Thanks Christine

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00:35:57.519 --> 00:36:00.320
with us, and welcome back to
working on purpose. If you're just tuning

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00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:04.320
in, my guess is David Grayson, the emeritus Professor of Corporate Responsibility at

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Cranfield School of Management. Also from
two thousand and seven to twenty seventeen,

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00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:13.840
he was the co founder director of
the Dohees Center of Professor of Corporate Responsibility.

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00:36:14.199 --> 00:36:15.960
David is the author of seven books
and has contributed to another ten.

408
00:36:16.320 --> 00:36:20.920
His most recent book is all in
the Future of Business Leadership. I'm your

409
00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:23.480
host, Alis Cortes. So before
the break, David, you helped us

410
00:36:23.559 --> 00:36:29.599
understand purpose and plan of the five
attributes that underpin current best practices and leading

411
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:34.360
companies. Talk to us next about
culture, would you please? Well,

412
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:37.239
before I do that, I'm just
looking in the break at least at some

413
00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:43.719
of the questions coming in now,
just picking up both the questions that come

414
00:36:43.800 --> 00:36:49.880
from Kyle and from Todd. Todd, yes, because I think these are

415
00:36:49.960 --> 00:36:54.920
very relevant to understanding how a sustainability
plan or strategy really works in practice.

416
00:36:55.000 --> 00:37:01.280
Because if you are a mining company, then your impacts are going to look

417
00:37:01.400 --> 00:37:07.760
very different to the impacts of a
big bank or to a big high tech

418
00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:14.320
company. So the crucial thing is
to do the really tough work to identify

419
00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:20.280
what are the most material social,
environmental and economic impacts that our business has.

420
00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:24.880
And similarly, the impacts may look
very very different if you are doing

421
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:34.239
business in a low income company country
in say Africa or Asia, versus doing

422
00:37:34.280 --> 00:37:39.199
business primarily in a high income country
like Northern Europe or North North America.

423
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:45.079
So that's a very important part of
getting an effective plan or strategy sustainability.

424
00:37:45.199 --> 00:37:52.239
But going on to culture, I
realized in fact that culture is not something

425
00:37:52.519 --> 00:37:59.800
that in my kind of world of
corporate sustainability and responsible business I given enough

426
00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:04.960
attention to in the past, and
that was clearly a real mistake on my

427
00:38:05.079 --> 00:38:09.159
part. And I think culture the
way we do business around here, is

428
00:38:09.320 --> 00:38:16.480
so critically important again for really successfully
embedding sustainability, and we think and the

429
00:38:16.519 --> 00:38:22.119
way we describe it in all in
is that there are four really important dimensions

430
00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:29.519
of having a sustainable culture. It
starts, as companies like Nike have shown

431
00:38:30.440 --> 00:38:37.079
with the idea that innovation is sustainability. Sustainability equals innovation. It's a fundamental

432
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:43.719
stage gate for all of the innovation
of the organization. A second critical dimension

433
00:38:43.719 --> 00:38:50.760
of a sustainable culture is that it
is genuinely engaging and empowering. So not

434
00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:58.400
only do employees have the training and
the sense of permission to take the initiative

435
00:38:58.440 --> 00:39:04.960
to come forward with their own ideas
and suggestions and projects around sustainability, but

436
00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:08.000
they know that they will be encouraged
to do that. So it's a combination

437
00:39:08.960 --> 00:39:15.320
of the top down leadership from board
and senior management team in terms of setting

438
00:39:15.679 --> 00:39:21.239
a strategic direction. Link back to
the business purpose, but it is also

439
00:39:22.199 --> 00:39:30.840
a company a culture where there is
genuine bottom up engagement and enthusiasm to bring

440
00:39:30.920 --> 00:39:37.920
forward ideas. Other aspects of a
successful sustainability culture are that there is a

441
00:39:38.039 --> 00:39:47.360
very strong sense of ethics and responsibility. People are inculcated, so it becomes

442
00:39:47.719 --> 00:39:54.480
very natural to understand how the organization
expects and wants them to behave So there's

443
00:39:54.639 --> 00:40:00.360
a clarity about what are the kind
of a north style the values of of

444
00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:07.239
the organization that's reinforced time and time
again. And the other aspect we think

445
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:13.360
of a sustainability culture is that it
is open and accountable and transparent, not

446
00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:19.119
just in terms of sharing information about
where it sources from, where its supplies,

447
00:40:19.199 --> 00:40:22.440
factories are, and what are the
conditions that they expect in those factories

448
00:40:22.440 --> 00:40:28.039
and so on, but also it's
open in the sense of being humble enough

449
00:40:28.840 --> 00:40:34.440
to understand that even a giant,
multinational global business doesn't have all of the

450
00:40:34.480 --> 00:40:38.800
answers around sustainable development, and it
needs to work in collaboration and partnership with

451
00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:43.639
lots of others, both inside and
outside the company. So those are the

452
00:40:44.360 --> 00:40:47.960
kind of what we think of the
crucial dimensions of a sustainable culture. And

453
00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:52.599
then what really surprised us, And
it wasn't part of the interview schedules when

454
00:40:52.639 --> 00:41:00.079
we're interviewing all of these CEOs and
company chairmen and chief finance officers and chief

455
00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:07.400
sustainability officers. But I do think
we did any interview for all in where

456
00:41:07.400 --> 00:41:12.559
the people we interviewed didn't talk about
the importance of being able to work in

457
00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:19.599
collaboration with other businesses, sometimes with
first competitors, with other parts of society,

458
00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:24.079
with NGOs, with social enterprises,
sometimes with academia, and so to

459
00:41:24.239 --> 00:41:32.800
work very often through industry associations to
come up with solutions around sustainability. So

460
00:41:34.639 --> 00:41:40.079
the importance of collaboration, of working
in partnership. I know many of us

461
00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:46.400
grew up and did MBAs and so
on with this idea of porter's competitive advantage

462
00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:50.920
and so on. But I think
in the twenty first century, and you

463
00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:57.039
had Paul Skinner and other Brita on
your program a while ago talking about his

464
00:41:57.079 --> 00:42:00.320
book Collaborative Advantage. Indeed I did. That's how I found you. In

465
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:07.239
fact, thank you exactly Alongside confessional
advantage, there is the importance of this

466
00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:16.239
collaborative advantage and having both a skill
set and a mindset that looks for where

467
00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:21.760
we could work together, where that's
something like the sustainable apparelled coalition, for

468
00:42:21.760 --> 00:42:29.719
instance, between a lot of the
big companies working in the fashion industry and

469
00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:34.480
the footwear industry and so on,
or whether it's the sustainable shipping initiative,

470
00:42:34.599 --> 00:42:37.239
or whether it's a sustainable tire initiative, et cetera, et cetera, et

471
00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:44.400
cetera. Well, my earlier books
was actually on the evolution of corporate responsibility

472
00:42:44.440 --> 00:42:47.039
coalitions around the world with a good
friend, Jane Nelson, who's at the

473
00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:52.159
County School of Government in Harvard,
And what we said in that book was

474
00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:59.000
that we thought the future was going
to be much more around issue specific coalitions

475
00:42:59.239 --> 00:43:04.159
and sect specific coalitions. And my
goodness, in the last decade hasn't that

476
00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:09.400
happened in space. And the last
thing that we identified, and it's probably

477
00:43:09.400 --> 00:43:16.079
the newest of these attributes, is
what we called advocacy, speaking out and

478
00:43:16.159 --> 00:43:21.920
speaking up for sustainable development and social
justice. And we think this is different

479
00:43:22.119 --> 00:43:29.440
to old fashioned business lobbying, which
might be quite short term, quite immediately

480
00:43:29.480 --> 00:43:35.599
self interested. We think this advocacy
is taking a longer term perspective. So

481
00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:37.880
it's a kind of focus on capitalism
for the long term, if you like.

482
00:43:38.639 --> 00:43:45.239
And it is in fact recognizing what
are the kind of changes in public

483
00:43:45.280 --> 00:43:51.639
policy, in public behaviors which are
needed in order to get more sustainable development.

484
00:43:51.800 --> 00:43:57.400
And whereas in the past the company
could be a leader if it was

485
00:43:58.079 --> 00:44:02.760
making progress on one or maybe two
of those attributes, what is now required

486
00:44:04.199 --> 00:44:08.360
is for a company to work on
all five of those attributes because they reinforce

487
00:44:08.440 --> 00:44:14.440
each other and you can't really make
much progress on one without having those other

488
00:44:14.760 --> 00:44:20.559
attributes in play as well. Very
very nicely shared David, Thank you that

489
00:44:20.719 --> 00:44:24.800
essentially, listeners, what he's done
for your your delight is he's gone through

490
00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:29.480
the bulk of that book by sharing
what he just shared. So I real

491
00:44:29.519 --> 00:44:32.480
treat David, thank you for treating
it the way that you did. So

492
00:44:32.519 --> 00:44:36.280
we're getting very close to running at
a time I want to hit one more

493
00:44:36.440 --> 00:44:39.840
question from you because I know it's
important to you, and that is you.

494
00:44:40.360 --> 00:44:45.480
I know you're very much interested in
where the link between purpose and ethics

495
00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:50.199
are and I saw that you posted
an article on your blog about doing business

496
00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:57.119
ethically in the Coronavirus Times. Why
this particular crossover being so important to you.

497
00:44:58.280 --> 00:45:04.280
Well, I did, and you
can read the blog on David Grayson

498
00:45:04.280 --> 00:45:07.920
dot net, but you can also
find it on the website of the Institute

499
00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:14.320
of Business Ethics, which is an
organization that's been going now for nearly forty

500
00:45:14.440 --> 00:45:20.000
years and champions the idea of doing
business ethically. And another of my volunteering

501
00:45:20.159 --> 00:45:28.039
activities is that I'm the volunteer chair
of the board of that organization as well,

502
00:45:28.639 --> 00:45:37.000
and we're trying to get businesses to
understand and to implement good ethics as

503
00:45:37.039 --> 00:45:45.199
a core of their organizational culture.
So I think that culture and purpose and

504
00:45:45.239 --> 00:45:51.599
ethical culture and purpose aren't two parallel
tracks, absolutely interrelated and the one that

505
00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:54.880
helps to reinforce the other. M
hmm. I completely agree with that,

506
00:45:55.000 --> 00:46:00.920
David. And to that end,
I want to also back to alignment.

507
00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:05.840
As you know, I have an
interest in helping individuals align with the organizational

508
00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:07.880
purpose, and I think you have
a fascination interested in that as well.

509
00:46:08.360 --> 00:46:14.559
What is your take on that?
So I think the really successful organizations,

510
00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:17.239
and funny enough, I was doing
my homework as well, at least because

511
00:46:17.239 --> 00:46:22.599
I was looking at some of your
recent talks and things, and I so

512
00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:30.280
agree with you about the importance of
really being able to inspire people to feel

513
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:35.519
that they want to go to work
rather than oh my goodness, it's it's

514
00:46:35.559 --> 00:46:42.000
the start of another working week,
etc. So we are completely in agreement

515
00:46:42.079 --> 00:46:46.320
on the importance of that, and
I think great leadership helps people to see

516
00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:52.639
how what they are contributing can make
a positive difference. And if you go

517
00:46:52.760 --> 00:47:00.360
back to some of the really interesting
ways in which people understand what made debates

518
00:47:00.440 --> 00:47:02.719
us, people like Daniel Pink with
his book Drive, where he talks about

519
00:47:02.760 --> 00:47:09.239
the importance of mastery and autonomy,
but crucially also feeling it's for a purpose,

520
00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:17.239
yes, and having that kind of
link between what is this company trying

521
00:47:17.239 --> 00:47:23.159
to do and why this matters to
the individual. That's why I'm so excited

522
00:47:23.239 --> 00:47:30.559
about the power of social entrepreneurs,
people inside large organizations who are creating value

523
00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:36.079
for the business but also having a
positive impact on society, taking the initiative,

524
00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:39.800
coming up with new products and services, new business models, job crafting

525
00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:45.440
to do that. I think that
is part particularly of what many younger people

526
00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:49.920
in business want, but I think
it's also something that those of us who've

527
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:54.360
got a few more years on the
plot also think matters as well. Yeah,

528
00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:57.880
well, and I stand for helping
to greater world. Will we get

529
00:47:57.880 --> 00:48:00.480
to do that? So I'm so
thrilled. We're a lot, and here

530
00:48:00.519 --> 00:48:02.960
we are toward the end. David
already want to give you the last word,

531
00:48:04.400 --> 00:48:07.079
saying about thirty seconds, what would
you like to leave a listeners with

532
00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:16.119
today? I think the really important
thing is to understand what is your own

533
00:48:16.159 --> 00:48:22.360
purpose and so I'm a great fan
of the Japanese model of ikey guy.

534
00:48:24.079 --> 00:48:30.239
How do you go about identifying what
is your personal purpose or purposes? And

535
00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:37.920
then how can you find a way
of aligning that purpose with the purpose of

536
00:48:37.000 --> 00:48:43.800
your employer. I think that is
really my kind of homework to all the

537
00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:49.159
listeners. If I may be selling
boulders as to suggest what might be a

538
00:48:49.199 --> 00:48:52.400
follow up from this program. Fantastic
David. In fact, we did cover

539
00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:59.320
Ikigai a few months ago with Justin
Barnes from the UK, so like minded

540
00:48:59.400 --> 00:49:01.559
still, David, thank you very
much for joining us with that wicked,

541
00:49:01.639 --> 00:49:06.800
smart mind of yours and your heart
committed to making the world sustainable. Thank

542
00:49:06.840 --> 00:49:08.840
you so much for that. My
pleasure, all the best. If you

543
00:49:08.840 --> 00:49:12.880
want to learn more about David Grayson, the work he does on sustainability and

544
00:49:12.920 --> 00:49:16.119
ethics, or his seven books.
Visit his website. It's David Grayson dot

545
00:49:16.199 --> 00:49:22.159
net. That's David g. R
a Yson dot net. Last week,

546
00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:24.119
if you missed the live show,
you can always catch your recorded podcast.

547
00:49:24.199 --> 00:49:29.039
We were on the JP lequeur of
Brand Foundations and the New York City Chair

548
00:49:29.079 --> 00:49:31.599
of Conscious Capitalism. We were talking
about the silver lining we both see in

549
00:49:31.639 --> 00:49:36.159
the COVID nineteen pandemic. Next week, we'll be on the air with Linda

550
00:49:36.159 --> 00:49:38.760
Crompton, who's president and CEO of
Leadership Women. Will be talking about what

551
00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:43.679
she and her organization are doing in
response to the COVID pandemic to change how

552
00:49:43.679 --> 00:49:46.119
they offer programs to their members and
stay relevant and useful during this change,

553
00:49:46.119 --> 00:49:49.880
and how they do their business.
See you there. Remember that work is

554
00:49:49.880 --> 00:49:57.639
at least one third of our lives, So let's work on purpose. Well,

555
00:49:57.639 --> 00:50:00.119
we hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to tune in to

556
00:50:00.280 --> 00:50:06.880
Working on Purpose featuring your host Alis
Cortes, each week on the Voice America

557
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:10.639
Empowerment Channel. This week, find
your life's purpose at work