Josh Spodek: Bringing Your Passions to Life

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What's working on purpose anyway? Each
week we ponder the answer to this question.

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People ache for meaning and purpose at
work, to contribute their talents passionately

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and know their lives really matter.
They crave being part of an organization that

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inspires them and helps them grow into
realizing their highest potential. Business can be

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such a force for good in the
world, elevating humanity. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration to help
usher in this world we all want.

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Working on Purpose now. Here is
your host, doctor Elise Cortes.

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Welcome back to the Working on Purpose
Program. Thanks you tuning in again this

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week. I'm your host, Doctor
e Le's Cortes. Join you live from

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Dallas, Texas, which is home
base for me. By way of introduction,

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I'm a man of consultant specializing in
meaning and purpose, organizational logo therapists,

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inspirational speaker, social scientist and author. There are many ways we can

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work together. Check out at least
Coortes dot com, orgustodashnow dot com to

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learn how and to download some free
resources I put up there for you.

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I do offer my listeners a twenty
five percent discount on my courses, so

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go to Gusto dash now for that
information, and when you check out for

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the courses, just use the WOP
twenty discount for that to Actually sorry,

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it's a twenty percent discount. If
you've been tuning in for a while,

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then you know this program is a
thought leadership platform that enlightens and inspires listeners

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and viewers with insights from distinguished business
leaders, authors and subject better experts.

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By listening in, you're part of
the movement to create inspirational leaders and enlightening

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workplaces where we can thrive and do
business that betters the world. Glad you're

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here. Now onto this week's program
with us today's doctor Joshua Spodek, who

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is an executive coach, keynote and
three time TEDx speaker, host of The

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Sustainable Life Daily, blogger, and
author and teacher of Initiative, a proven

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method to bring your passions to life
and work. We'll be talking about this

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latest book as well, this passion
for sustainability and where we can start to

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shore up problems in today's education system. You joined today from New York City,

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Josh Welcome to Working on Purpose.
Hey there, glad to be here.

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Isn't it great? It's so great
to talk with people off to something

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in the world doing amazing things,
and you are certainly one of those individuals.

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Josh, Holy cow, how don't
copal with you? I love what

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I do and I feel, you
know, there's a big part of my

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life early on when I try to
do everything I could and I wanted to.

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There's a lot of self regerandizement,
and there's a big shift in my

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life that happened. I can't put
my finger exactly when when it switched to

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being in service of others, and
that's changed a lot, isn't it amazing?

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So of course in my work on
purpose, that's a big component,

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right, it's when we are in
service to others that we really are living

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in service of our purpose. And
that's a key part of it. And

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so and then of course underneath that
is passion, which is one of your

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really important things to talk about.
So I do want to open the conversation,

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since we're talking about passion and just
really living life life to its hilt,

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to talk about one of your most
shared passions, Josh, and that

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I understand to be the environment and
sustainability. And you say in your TED

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talk that everyone gets it wrong what's
what do you mean what's wrong? Well,

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since then, I've found more things
that have gotten that people get wrong.

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But one of the biggest things that
people get wrong is that people think

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it's a burden, that it's a
chore, that's a sacrifice, that you

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know, life is really about all
these things that we have to give up

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in order to do for the environment. So, for example, I six

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years ago I challenged myself to see
if I could go for a week without

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eating or without buying any packaged food. And when I challenge myself to do

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that, I thought, surely,
I'm going to be giving stuff up.

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It's going to cost more, have
less variety, it's going to take more

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time, it's not going to be
accessible for people who don't live, you

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know, in the West village like
I do and have a farmer's market right

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there. All of that was wrong. And only after I did it could

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I find that I had more variety, spent less money, spent less time,

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connect more with my community, with
my family. And the last talk

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that I gave before the pandemic was
when I went up to the Bronx to

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show people up in a food desert, and I was invited by a single

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mom to show how to do there
what It's totally possible. They just hadn't

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had it done. And everyone I
when I say everyone, and myself.

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Before I tried this stuff, I
would have thought, ah, I don't

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want to do that. Like I
got how many restaurants within like two blocks

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of here? And now I mean
it's it's easy to say like food is

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a passion mine because I think it's
for most people. But man, it's

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totally changed. And I had no
idea how much more passion and love and

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connection and joy and community there was
that living unsustainably was holding me back from

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That's so great, Josh, what
a great way to start. I had

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to start with passion round. We
all love passion, and a lot of

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a lot of people do it.
Oh, you must be in New York.

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You must be in a city.
I love it. The sound effects.

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You are great? All right.
So let's talk about one of your

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TED talks, one of your three
TED talks. I do aspire to do

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one one day, so you have
to coach me when I get there.

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But the story that I that I
love on one of them is how you

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came to embracing environmentalism and sustainability.
So will you tell us just the high

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when that's obviously a longer story.
But tell us the high points of this

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story if you will. You know, one of the high points was what

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I just mentioned, the challenging myself
to go for a week without packaged food,

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and I really thought that that was
a sacrifice. The material change that

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came from it was the increased variety, the saving money, things like that,

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And by the way, I made
it two and a half weeks and

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kept it going, not at zero. But today is December fifteenth. The

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last time I throw out my garbage
was something like December twentieth, December thirtieth

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last year, so I haven't yet
thrown out my garbage. What I'm going

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to hit a year in a couple
of days. I have to check my

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calendar to see what it was.
But the psychic change, the mental change,

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was much greater because I came to
expect that living by my environmental values

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would improve my life, and that
was the opposite of what I expected.

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So that a couple of years later, when I saw somewhat a scientist talking

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about the effects of global warming something
like that, he said that flying New

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York LA round trip warmed the Globe
about a year's worth of driving. Now

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living in Manhattan, I don't have
a car. I take public transportation,

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and I thought, oh great,
you know I'm not pluting that much.

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And then I realized, oh I
am. And you know a lot of

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people will say what you do doesn't
matter, but I it's amunt of taking

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responsibility for my actions. And to
me, leadership is it's amount of credibility

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to others, but amount of integrity
for oneself. So I challenged myself to

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go for a week would be too
little. A month seemed to too little.

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So I said, let's see,
could I go for a year without

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flying? And immediately like like,
my gut is like, ah, you

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know, you gotta make money,
you got family, you got adventure in

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cuisine and all these things. And
I thought, I am I trying to

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live by my valleys or not?
And so I challenged myself to go for

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a year without flying, really thinking, yeah, the restaurant, maybe the

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food stuff, maybe that would work. But this is serious stuff. And

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you know, I had to cancel
a couple things I had gone on in

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Europe and things like that. But
then a couple months into it, I

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started not thinking about what I was
giving up, but how to get the

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things that I used to think could
only come from flying, So making money,

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connecting with family, adventure or cuisine, things like that, And one

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by one I started filling those things
back in more then i'd given up.

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So two or three months in I
said, let's go for a second year.

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And now I'm soon to start my
sixth year without flying. And you

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know, a lot of people think, oh, it's easy for you.

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It's just it was just as hard
for me as for anyone. And it's

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I've stopped trying to put this into
a way that people get it. I

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can only I'm not going to try
to get anyone else to think this way.

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Only experience I think I do it. But it's been one of the

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best decisions I've ever made in my
life. That I've really filled back in

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my life with more than what I
thought. It's, yeah, I'm trying

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to think of like how much I
want to go into the change, and

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it's you know, as it's happened. That led to the podcast, that

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led to the tat X Talks,
that's led to working with all As Corporations

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and the Nobel Prize winners and the
McKinsey Global Manager director and all these people

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who've been on the podcast. People
really want to talk about the environment and

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sustainability. They just don't want to
be judged. They don't want to be

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you know, you're greenwashing. Oh
you're not really authentic. And so I've

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discovered this area of leadership and sustainability
that I didn't realize was there, and

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turns out it's an area of global
demand, including at the highest levels of

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business. So I want to time
in this quickly because we talked about this

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when we first were talking about having
you come on air. And part of

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the reason that you're fascinated to me, one you're just an incredibly fascinating human

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being who's really up to something in
life. But two we share it in

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a sense that I grew up in
Oregon, which is known as a tree

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hugging, granola eating state. We
do care about the environment, we do

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care about conservation and preservation. And
then when I lived in Rio di Jenero

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from ninety one to ninety three,
I had the chance to be part of

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the Real Earth Summit and see people
from around the world come together and talk

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about this. It was amazing.
And then I wrote my thesis from my

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masters on the deforestation and the economic, political, and social contributing factors to

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that. So I have an eye
for this and I have a heart for

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this. But you have a whole
idea that you're I mean, your commitment

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to sustainability and the stewardship is really
pretty profound. So we say a bit

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more about that perspective. And also
if you want to talk about the leadership

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aspect of what's available there, then
too, that's great. May I experiment

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with a way of putting it that
I haven't said publicly yet. I've only

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said to friends, please, I'd
love to catch This is what I believe.

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This is my characterization of what passes
for leadership in the area of the

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environment and sustainability these days. Okay, I'm ready. You walk into an

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alcoholics anonymous meeting, and it doesn't
have to be alcoholics. That's an incidental

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too it but you'll see how it
plays out. And in front of the

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room is someone standing there lecturing everybody
on the science of what alcohol does to

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deliver and how dangerous it is and
how much damage it does and telling people

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and so therefore this is what you
should do based on that science, not

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connecting with the reasons that they do
this, not connecting with the depression or

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the partying or whatever it is.
Now while they're saying this, they have

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in their hand to fit the gin
which they are periodically drinking from. And

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when someone says, wait a minute, you're drinking, they say, don't

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pay what one person does doesn't matter, don't pay attention to me. We

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got that. That's just distraction.
The government, the corporations, they're the

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ones that have to change and do
what I say. And that person thinks

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that they're leading. They actually are
leading, but not to get the people

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to do what they say, but
to get the people to then learn about

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the science of what the alcohol,
what alcohol does to deliver, and then

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lecture to other people why they themselves
also drink. And we have a world

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full of people saying, I'm an
expert, here's what you should do.

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I'm an expert. Here's what you
should do. I'm an expert, here's

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what you should do. And the
problem with the not stopping drinking is not

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that they're hypocritical. That's not the
issue at all. I wouldn't even see

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it that way. It's two big
things. One is that they don't have

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any credibility. The other is that
not having experienced it, they don't know

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one what it takes to switch,
to change. It's not a matter of

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just say no, just say no
while the person is drinking. It's when

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you change a habit. And sustainability
means not just a habit here there,

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but many habits, a lifestyle.
It's you got to change your friends,

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You got to change the lab out
of your house, you got to change

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your diet, your sleep patterns,
all these things, and you need support,

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You need lots of people around you. And no one's talking about that.

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No one's experienced that. The other
thing that happens when you stop is

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that, say, you drink,
and it's a big social thing. You're

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afraid that if you stop drinking,
it's not going to be social anymore.

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Or maybe you're depressed and you think
you're going to have to face these demons.

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Everyone sees the withdrawal that they what
they'll lose when they give it up,

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when they get with the restaurants or
the flying or you know, the

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I don't know, the polluting cars, all that stuff. They don't see

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on the far side of that,
you know, they know the pain that's

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going to come, and they know
that if they all they do have to

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keep going back to what they were
doing before, and the pain goes away

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and they go back into having the
fun past. That is a deeper and

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much more rewarding and longer term enduring
joy in me. For me, it's

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joy, community, connection, meaning, and purpose. And if you haven't

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felt it, you're just academically telling
people a bunch of facts. Right.

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Yeah, there's my description of leadership
and commitment on sustainability today. That's amazing.

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Well, one of the things that
you talked about and when we first

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spoke is you know we do you
said, in terms of leadership, we

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do have young Greta is it the
Thumberg or Thumburg, But of course we

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need more leaders And so what I
want to want to get from you here

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before we go into our first break
is briefly, what can leaders you to

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help steward sustainability? What can we
do about this? You know a lot

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of people think you have to be
perfect or also going to be called greenwashing

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or something like that. You don't
have to be perfect. You just have

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to show that you're doing your best. But you have to do that genuinely

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and authentically. If you do it
genuinely, authentically, you will show your

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flaws. But then people will respond
to your flaws to help you, not

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criticize you, because they have flaws
too, and they would rather see you

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make the mistakes and then they can
too then too. If you strive for

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perfection, it's no one can reach
it. This is very hard to do,

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but it's essential for leadership, and
many leaders go if you if you

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go first with say you're running some
company. You want to say your company

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is going to become more sustainable.
If you say here's how great we are

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and then follow it up, it's
less effective than if you do it internally.

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First, talk to your teams,
say what what, what's in your

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heart? What's driving you? Then
act, then start sharing. Don't make

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it a pr thing that will come
if if it's if it's essential or important,

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look in your heart. I mean, if you if you watch my

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Tedux talks, especially the first one
I talk about how first, what do

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you care about? How can you
act on that even if it's small,

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because if it's bigger, small is
less important than if it's coming from the

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heart. Beautiful, Josh, beautiful, and I could couldn't agree more before

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we got whenever you're talking about the
importance of serving other people and that and

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how fulfilling that is and the difference
we can make in the work when we're

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actually focused on serving others. So
the caring piece aligns for me with that

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so beautiful way to take us into
our first break, I'm your host,

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Doctor Elise Cortes. We're on the
air with doctor Joshua Spodek, who was

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an executive coach, keynote and three
time tech speaker, host of The Sustainable

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Life Daily, blogger and author and
teacher of Initiative, a proven method to

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bring your passions to life and work. We've been talking about his passion for

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sustainability. After the RK, we're
going to talk about some of the problems

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in our educational system. Stay with
us, we'll be right back. Doctor

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Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing
in meaning and purpose and inspirational speaker and

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author. She helps companies visioneer for
greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

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leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate
fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the

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workforce. To learn more or to
invite Elise to speak to your organization.

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00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:02.519
Please visit her at a leisecore tes
dot com. Let's talk about how to

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get your employees working on purpose.
This is Working on Purpose with doctor Elise

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Cortes. To reach our program today
or open a conversation with Alise, send

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an email to a lease Alise at
Eleasecortes dot com. Now back to Working

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00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:36.480
on Purpose. Welcome back to Working
on Purpose program. I'm very excited to

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share with you that, thanks in
part to the pandemic, I got my

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first book out, Purpose Ignited is
now available on Amazon, and I have

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to say I don't think that I
would have gotten it done in the time

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period that I did without the sort
of force, shutdown and focus I wrote.

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The book related to transform leaders or
the reader is into inspirational leaders,

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and the whole idea is to help
them awaken passion in the workplace and create

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a place that people actually want to
come to work. So I hope you

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enjoy it, and thanks for reading. If you're just joining the program,

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my guess is doctor Joshua Spodok.
He's the host of This Sustainable Life and

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the author of initiative I've proven method
to bring your passions to life and work,

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among many other distinguishing contributions and achievements. I'm your host, doctor Lee

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Cortes, So Josh, amazing man
about the planet that you are. This

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next segment, I wanted to talk
about the education system, and as we

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do this, I want to first
call out a couple of things about you

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that I think make you sort of
quite interesting to talk to about education.

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You seem to be quite qualified to
speak on the subject. That you have

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a PhD in astrophysics. I mean, that's amazing already, and an MBA,

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and I think I remember you have
some other degrees as well, Is

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that right? Well? I put
that at five ived degrees, So I

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got my undergrad degree is one other, and then on the way to get

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a PhD you get a master's and
then something called an mfil. So over

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there I have my five diplomas well. So here's as a person who has

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been also going to school my whole
entire life, I want to know what's

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behind the pursuit of all this education. Where does that motivation come from?

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Where's that thirst come from? The
PC and physics was a love for physics,

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and the love for physics is you
know a lot of people associate physics

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with I don't know people in lab
codes with lots of equipment, and you

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know, I help build a satellite
that's up in orbit right now. But

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that's the needs to the end.
The end is really discovering nature at a

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more deeper level. The symmetry is
the beauties. I love looking at a

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rainbow, but I love even more
knowing how the refraction works and how the

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difference that to me, there's a
beauty underneath it. That the more that

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I looked, the more that I
found, And so I just kept pursuing,

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pursuing, pursuing. The NBA came
well. Ultimately, I didn't like

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the practice of physics of being a
graduate student, and then I didn't want

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to go to a post doc,
and besides, I had an idea for

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this company. So I went off
and started a company with a friend and

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we were very well. We had
our ups and downs and ups and downs.

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But I got squeezed out by the
investors during a recession, and that

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was very painful. And I knew
that there was a lot that I was

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missing from business, and so the
NBA was to fill in what I was

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missing. I just appreciate where your
heart has led to it in all that

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matter, and regarding education, since
it is a really important part of my

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world and what I hope to be
contributing to it, I wanted to talk

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about really what's of problematic about it? And one of the things I learned

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in a previous radio conversation with Steve
Brown, who's the author of The Innovation

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Ultimatum. He told me and says
in new book that our educational system is

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extremely outdated and it was actually formed
to teach people to move from the farms

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to factories. What's your perspective on
our system and does that align with how

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you would describe it. Yeah,
I've certainly heard that description and it sounds

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I haven't really looked up to history, but yes, a lot of our

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educational system was designed to make a
uniform output of people that could be productive

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units in society, and it was
at a time I think it came from

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the German system of making people who
could effectively work in factories and before that,

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infarm I don't think you really needed
to know a who lot of Trier

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out I'm not sure. Yeah,
and then at one point they wanted people

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who knew roughly the same thing.
And you know, you wanted factories with

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uniform parts, and so the people
were parts of those factories, so you

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wanted uniform that. And then it
got institutionalized, and so I got basically

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the same structure of the style of
education that I presume people did one hundred

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years before the world had changed so
extremely updated. Yeah, I mean now

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I have to say that there were
people thousands of years ago teaching the way

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I think is effective, and there
were people today. You know, at

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all times people taught unproductively and productively. It's just right now. The mainstream

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American educational system is really not about
At best, it will teach you,

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like to understand Plato's views on values
and compare and contrast them with Maya Angelous,

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but it won't teach you to learn
your values and how to act on

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them yourself. And ultimately, one, you don't know what they are.

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Two we have of all these people
who are doing what they're told and they

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don't realize. You know, as
a coach, it's great, I got

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a lot of the customers, but
I'd rather they had the passion and knew

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how to act on it in their
own lives. Anyway, Yeah, completely

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agree, and you have a very
interesting bid in your book. And of

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course, as you know, I
read your book cover to cover and I

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loved every single bit of it.
But I want you to speak, if

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you would, to this bit in
your book where you say, quote the

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academic information schools teach is nice,
but the behavior they teach is compliance.

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Writer and former Yale professor William Deversivitz, I'm not sure to say. I

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don't know how to say. Yeah. Athlete titled his book on What results

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from Creating Compliant People filled with facts
but not social and emotional development excellent sheep.

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Yeah, it's one of the best
titles for books I've ever come across.

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Excellent sheep. I mean, are
we producing excellent sheep? Or what

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I had after I graduated from business
school? You know, I really had

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grades leadership classes I did not expect. I never heard of them until busins

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schoo and I didn't think. You
know, I saw Mountain Luther King and

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figured, well, he does that. I can't do that. I'm not

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going to be a leader. And
then I learned you could change these things.

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Except I learned through case study,
reading and writing papers analysis, and

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when I went into the world.
I thought, I'm going to go in

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this situation. I'm a great leader, and I go in and I don't

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know what I'm doing because I haven't
practiced, I haven't rehearsed. I haven't

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you learned. And at the time, I was watching Inside the Actor's Studio

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a lot, mainly because I found
it entertaining. I really enjoyed watching it.

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And then this weird pattern hit me
that do you ever watch a show

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on it's had all the grades of
like DeNiro and st inside the actor's studio.

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No, I'd love to thank you. Oh yeah, it's a it's

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been around for a long time,
and I mean, think of a great

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actor, producer, director, they've
all been on it. Okay, thanks

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And I kept noticing and it's very
in depth. I've actually seen it recorded

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live. It's like a five hour
event that's cut down into an hour,

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maybe ninety minutes. Over and over
again, these actors whose social emotional skills

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were off the charts incredible. Over
and over again, they would say they

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dropped out of school, they were
kicked out of school, they never went

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to school in the first place.
You know, maybe they didn't even finish

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high school. And I kept thinking, their skills on things that are relevant

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to leadership are way higher than these
people in the Ivy League business school,

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who are supposedly the top of the
game. How can I reconcile that the

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people who are the best at it
had the least education. And what I

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learned was that they didn't stop learning. They switched from what you know,

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what I would call academic classroom learning
into this other style of active experiential learning

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that developed skill, not just you
didn't just when I was in school,

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I learned about leadership. When I
started learning that style, I started learning

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to lead. It's a difference between
art appreciation and learning how to make art.

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I learned leadership appreciation. Yes,
yes, yes, so under that

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this is so interesting and I love
this, I just and I was so

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looking forward to having you come on
and talk about the figure. I think

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it's so important and it speaks directly
to what you and I both care about

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in terms of what binds us around
passion, meaning and purpose. But you

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also say in your book, and
I'd like you to speak to this if

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you would, you talk about how
Greg Whiteley, who's the director of the

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documentary most likely to succeed describe an
educational system leading its most successful students to

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choose safe and predictable routes, studying
safe and predictable subjects, losing touch with

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their passions, sting ambition, and
replacing asking what do I love with what

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does the teacher want me to do? And how can I give it to

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them? Yeah, I hope you
safe and predictable and my word nice.

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I hope we're picking up the damning
with faint craze here, because you're not

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going to get any total rejects out
of this, but you're not going to

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get any people discovering themselves, people
being themselves. I think one of the

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things he said in the interviewer that
came from was that there's all these people

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come out of the top. I
mean the people especially come out of the

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top schools with the top degrees.
They know how to do what they were

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told, and so when they get
hired to do something new, he says,

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you know, over and over again
he would talk to people at the

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top levels of various companies and they'd
say, you know, I'll hire this

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00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:11.759
person. I'd say, we got
this project, we hired you to do

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00:25:11.799 --> 00:25:14.480
this really difficult thing. Go at
it. And the person's Okay, what

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00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:18.599
should I do? Yeah? And
this hit me. You know, I

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when I was in graduate school,
I would go to my advisor. You

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00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:23.519
know, I wanted to be in
Einstein. I wanted to be the next

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Richard Findman of the next you know, Galilet or Newton. All I knew

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00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:30.440
how to do is to ask my
advisor what to do, and he would

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00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:33.000
say, well, do and I
analyze this super and overend it or you

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know, analyze this piece of hardware. And I would. And then I'd

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00:25:36.039 --> 00:25:37.200
come back and say, Okay,
I did it. What next? And

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00:25:38.359 --> 00:25:41.640
my life is total opposite now,
I mean now people tell me not to

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00:25:41.640 --> 00:25:44.680
do what I'm doing, so you
can't make a difference in the world on

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00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:47.279
sustainability, and you know that ship
is saaled too long ago. I'm like,

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I'm going to do it, and
it's I value a lot of what

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I learned in school, but a
lot of it was factual recall and analysis

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00:25:56.200 --> 00:26:00.920
and planning. And I've found that
I've learned, you know, I've just

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00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:03.000
changed my model. Now. A
lot of what I learned the most is

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I say I don't know how to
do this, That's why I will do

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00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:11.599
it. Yes, Oh, I
love that. Oh there's I don't know

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00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:14.119
if you saw the movie in the
Martian it's one of my favorite movies for

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00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:18.680
this style of thinking and doing and
learning. In the beginning of the movie,

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00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:21.480
Matt Damon plays his character and he's
on Mars and there's a colony there

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00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:26.680
and there's like a windstorm or something, and like everyone dies and I'm not

400
00:26:26.720 --> 00:26:30.799
giving me anything way, but it's
just him and his suit is leaking oxygen.

401
00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:33.640
And you know, first he's got
to fix a suit. If he

402
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:34.920
doesn't fix a suit, he can't
do anything. Okay, he fixes a

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00:26:34.920 --> 00:26:40.000
suit, But now he's got to
get somehow back to the place. And

404
00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:41.799
then once he's there, he's got
to figure how to do it on his

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00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:44.640
own. Now he's got to figure
out that'll get him like like a week.

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00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:45.599
But then it's got to figure ot
how to grow food that'll get him

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00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:49.160
like a month. They just got
to figure figure out that. The way

408
00:26:49.160 --> 00:26:53.400
that most people talk about what I'm
doing now leadership in the area of sustainability,

409
00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:56.920
people say, Josh, you know, we can't save everything. It's

410
00:26:56.960 --> 00:27:03.079
almost as if someone said Matt Damon
or his character got to you don't know

411
00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:07.759
how to get to earth. Why
bother fixing the suit and you got The

412
00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:10.759
only way you can get to the
next thing is you've got to fix this

413
00:27:10.759 --> 00:27:11.400
thing, and then you fix the
next thing, and the next thing and

414
00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:15.160
the next thing. It's not the
only way to do things, but getting

415
00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:19.079
things. In leadership, I mean
in an area where everyone wants cleaner clean

416
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:22.960
water, clean land, most people
don't know how to get there. My

417
00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:27.240
definition for leadership is help others do
what they want, what they already wanted

418
00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:30.440
to do but haven't figured out how. That's brilliant. I love that,

419
00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:34.720
Josh say it again, please.
Leadership is helping people do what they've always

420
00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:40.119
wanted to do but haven't figured out
how. So it's helping. I have

421
00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:42.079
to listen to them to find out
what they want in the area of the

422
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:47.000
environment. Different people want different things, so I have to ask them and

423
00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:51.000
I have to listen. I have
to behave and communicate so that they expect

424
00:27:51.079 --> 00:27:52.720
that I will support them and not
judge them, so they can share what

425
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:56.960
they feel vulnerable about, what they
care about, and then I can help

426
00:27:56.000 --> 00:28:00.119
them achieve those things. Different for
everyone. People it's mercury and the fish.

427
00:28:00.200 --> 00:28:06.440
Some people it's global warming. Some
people it's plastic, although once they

428
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:08.079
start acting, they realize how it
connects and then they can do more things

429
00:28:08.119 --> 00:28:14.480
together. So so brilliant, by
the way, I think you are our

430
00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:17.000
next Galileo. So let's just go
with that. Okay, let's just claim

431
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:22.680
that. Yeah, well, let's
just go with it, right. I

432
00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:26.519
always tell my coaching clients, say, there's power and declaration, right,

433
00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:30.200
we're declaring it into existence. So
there it is, and I can argue,

434
00:28:30.440 --> 00:28:32.599
right, I can say it first. It's easier if I say it

435
00:28:32.640 --> 00:28:34.119
than if you say it. So
you know, this is an outside opinion.

436
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:37.799
Who's who's judged you and said that
you're the next Galileo. So let's

437
00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:42.240
go with it, right, Okay, good, don't argue with me.

438
00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:45.079
All right. So before we go
to the break, I want to tea

439
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:48.000
this up here because it'll help us
talk about what we're going to talk about

440
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:51.880
after break, which is what you
care about in terms of experiential learning.

441
00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:56.000
But you talk about how classroom learning
doesn't help you develop the social and emotional

442
00:28:56.079 --> 00:29:02.079
skills underlying initiative and entrepreneurship and entrepreneurial
success or personal development. So I want

443
00:29:02.119 --> 00:29:03.319
you to if you can kind of
queue up for us. Why is this

444
00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:07.240
system seemingly so resistant to change and
continue in this vein when it isn't working.

445
00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:14.519
Do we have right? Certainly there's
a lot yeah, I mean silly,

446
00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:18.000
there's a lot of inertia. There's
a lot of bureaucracy. I mean,

447
00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:22.640
most teachers at the at the below
high school and below, they learn

448
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:26.160
how to teach, but they don't
necessarily know the subject. College and above

449
00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:29.920
they tend to know the subject,
but that might not know how to teach.

450
00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:33.880
And the intersection of these things is
very important. I had so many

451
00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:37.319
students who would tell me I've never
taken a class like this. The how

452
00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:41.599
much time do I have? About
a minute, a minute a half.

453
00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:45.839
So I'll start that. Here's a
pattern that would happened to me, especially

454
00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:48.880
in my initiative class, is that
I would start them off with, you

455
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:51.920
have to come up with a project
that you're going to work on, and

456
00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:55.000
it has to be in an area
of interest to you. All the time

457
00:29:55.039 --> 00:29:59.880
people would pick it's their interest mixed
with what their parents want, what's in

458
00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:00.799
the news, what they think will
make a lot of money, with their

459
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:06.440
friends think is popular, and so
they always they do it for a little

460
00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:10.359
while and then my rule is you
can switch to something new if you want,

461
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:12.480
but if you do, you have
to start from scratch. You have

462
00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:15.559
to go back to the early.
You have to do all the steps.

463
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:18.759
Now. When they do those steps
the second time, it's much faster and

464
00:30:18.759 --> 00:30:19.839
they get much more out of it
because it's doing something they care about.

465
00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:25.680
Always when they switch, it's always
to something like more, and it's almost

466
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:29.240
always something that they're like, I
can do that, I can work on

467
00:30:29.319 --> 00:30:33.319
that. But I thought that that
wasn't what, you know, what they

468
00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:37.160
was expected of them. They thought
it wasn't you know, I can do

469
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:41.039
something I care about. They never
had that, No one, you know,

470
00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:44.960
here's what's important. Here's how to
show what's important. Here's how to

471
00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:48.319
show what you know. Here's when
to show it. Here's you know.

472
00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:52.000
Everything's told to you. And the
only way you can learn your values is

473
00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:56.680
to butt up against you know,
everon values, family, ever in values,

474
00:30:57.880 --> 00:31:02.839
personal growth. What happens when you
have to choose between family and personal

475
00:31:02.839 --> 00:31:06.799
growth? Then you realize what your
values are. You just write about that.

476
00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:08.279
You can write a good paper and
get a good grade, but you

477
00:31:08.319 --> 00:31:15.039
haven't learned your values beautifully set and
I completely agree with that. Let's take

478
00:31:15.079 --> 00:31:18.440
our second break. I'm Realis Cortez
your host. We are on the air

479
00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:21.680
with doctor Joshua Spodik, who is
an executive coach, keynote and three time

480
00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:26.039
techech speaker, host of The Sustainable
Life Daily, blogger and author and teacher

481
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:29.119
of Initiative, a proven method to
bring your passions to life and work.

482
00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:33.119
We've been talking about what's missing in
the educational vein and department after the brek,

483
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:36.920
We're going to hear about his approach
to learning and development and finding our

484
00:31:36.920 --> 00:31:41.319
passions. Stay with us, We'll
be right back. Doctor release Cortez is

485
00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:47.279
a management consultant specializing in meaning and
purpose and inspirational speaker and author. She

486
00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:53.279
helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among
stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning

487
00:31:53.319 --> 00:32:00.720
infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To

488
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:05.119
learn more or to invite Elise to
speak to your organization, please visit her

489
00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:08.920
at Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk
about how to get your employees working on

490
00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:21.400
purpose. This is working on purpose
with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our

491
00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:27.440
program today or open a conversation with
Alise, send an email to Alise Alise

492
00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:39.279
at Elisecortes dot com. Now back
to working on Purpose. Thanks for stating

493
00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:43.279
with us, and welcome back to
working on purpose if you haven't discovered it

494
00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:46.480
yet. We've launched Gusto now,
which is a transformation e learning platform featuring

495
00:32:46.640 --> 00:32:51.200
the signature vitally inspired living and Leading
from Purpose program that I created a couple

496
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:53.400
of years ago, and other professional
development courses. We do them in English,

497
00:32:53.400 --> 00:32:58.200
Spanish and Portuguese. And I do
offer you listeners and viewers a twenty

498
00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:00.839
percent discount. You just need to
be a to check out with WOP twenty

499
00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:06.279
when you come out on the closing
end. See you in class if you're

500
00:33:06.279 --> 00:33:09.359
just joining us today. My guest
is doctor Joshuaspodok from New York City.

501
00:33:09.400 --> 00:33:13.920
He is the host of This Sustainable
Life and the author of Initiative, a

502
00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:16.519
proven method to bring your passions to
life and work, among many other distinguishing

503
00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:21.319
contributions and achievements. I'm your host, doctor Earle Scortes. So for this

504
00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:25.279
last segment here, Josh, I
really want to dive into what I really

505
00:33:25.480 --> 00:33:30.279
would say is that is the gist
of your book and really how it is

506
00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:32.279
that you teach, which I think
is just so fresh and so profound.

507
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:37.079
So first, you are a proponent
of active experiential learning, like you said

508
00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:39.759
before the last segment, So first
of all, what does that mean?

509
00:33:40.279 --> 00:33:45.119
And I also want to know what's
missing in our general education system from that.

510
00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:46.440
So we already surface some of that, but I want I want you

511
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:52.160
to distinguish why is the active experiential
learning so different and important and profound.

512
00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:57.440
Well, I have to say that
it's not something I developed entirely myself.

513
00:33:57.559 --> 00:34:00.759
I mean, the roots go back
to John Dowey. You a mantasori.

514
00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:04.759
So I didn't make this stuff up. And one of my big influences was

515
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:07.920
a longtime friend who's the founding principle
of a high school in Philadelphia called the

516
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:13.360
Science Leadership Academy, Chris Lehman.
And you know he wants when he was

517
00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:15.599
a teacher, before he became a
principal, he told me that he I

518
00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:17.400
think he gave one test in his
entire teaching career. I was like,

519
00:34:17.440 --> 00:34:21.679
how can you not give tests?
And I just to think, even if

520
00:34:21.679 --> 00:34:23.920
you even if it's a better technique, you have to you have to prepare

521
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:27.679
kids to be out in the world. And then it hit me there are

522
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:30.280
no tests in the world. You
can't if a salesperson, you can't go

523
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:32.400
in and say, oh, I
don't know how to sell this stuff.

524
00:34:32.440 --> 00:34:35.440
Just give me a test and if
I do well, you buy my products.

525
00:34:35.559 --> 00:34:40.519
You have to connect with people,
and this empathy is when I first

526
00:34:40.519 --> 00:34:45.559
started teaching, before I started developing
this and getting what I was talking about.

527
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:47.519
I would sit down and I think
I did what most people do.

528
00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:52.159
It's like, I know this information, how do I organize it and present

529
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:54.760
it to them through lecture and reading
and things so that they will know the

530
00:34:54.800 --> 00:34:58.039
information I have and once they have
the information, they will know what to

531
00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:01.760
do with it. That there's a
certain logic to that. I know you

532
00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:08.039
don't I give you information? Now
you know that theory that hasn't played out

533
00:35:08.039 --> 00:35:12.760
in practice. So well, now
what I find is much more important now

534
00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:17.159
is I have to imagine first,
why are my students here, what are

535
00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:21.760
they looking for? I happen to
teach. They're always elective, so they've

536
00:35:21.840 --> 00:35:24.760
chosen to be there, and so
I actually think I have to think of

537
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:30.000
how can I get them to share
what motivates them, what brought them there

538
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:35.559
in the first place, so that
I can deliver to them what they a

539
00:35:35.639 --> 00:35:37.559
way for them to act on that. Now I have to give them structure.

540
00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:39.880
I have to give them I would
call scaffolding. I have to give

541
00:35:39.920 --> 00:35:45.960
them some basics so that they can
start acting. But then to combine what

542
00:35:45.000 --> 00:35:47.960
they care about with something that could
serve others, so that they can have

543
00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:52.239
a project to work on and start
applying those skills on something that they care

544
00:35:52.280 --> 00:35:55.639
about. As I said, usually
they pick something that is a mix of

545
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:59.159
what they care about with what they
think the world cares about. You'd be

546
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:04.000
amazed at how many of my students
would pick a blockchain app as like the

547
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:07.760
thing that they would work on.
And it changes with time, and it's

548
00:36:07.880 --> 00:36:09.840
possible that like everyone in the room
actually really those blockchain apps, even though

549
00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:13.920
blockchain and apps didn't exist when they're
you know, when they were growing up.

550
00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:16.480
But more likely, you know,
it's in the news. And the

551
00:36:16.519 --> 00:36:22.239
second time if they switch, it's
usually something that's much more from their heart

552
00:36:22.360 --> 00:36:25.559
and they they go much more into
that, and that's when they start telling

553
00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:30.280
me what they're doing, and I
start learning from them because they learn more

554
00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:32.960
than one of my students she said, after I took your class, I

555
00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:37.679
didn't want to do entrepreneurship before,
and now I started getting really interested in

556
00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:39.519
it. So I went to it
and took this other class in entrepreneurship.

557
00:36:39.880 --> 00:36:43.559
And she's like, she goes,
this is so flattering when I hear stuff

558
00:36:43.559 --> 00:36:45.519
like this. She says, they
were just telling me stuff that I learned

559
00:36:46.039 --> 00:36:50.920
on the way to do stuff for
your class. I already knew those answers.

560
00:36:50.960 --> 00:36:52.360
I could look that up on myself. I don't need to like an

561
00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:57.199
NYU professor to tell me that.
So that was very flattering. If you

562
00:36:57.320 --> 00:37:00.199
motivate them, which you know,
if you connect with something that they care

563
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:04.599
about, and that means you have
to support them. You have to empathize

564
00:37:05.639 --> 00:37:08.239
then, and I hope if there's
any past students, I hope I delivered

565
00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:12.639
with them. I'm not perfect,
but then they do it for their own

566
00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:15.480
reasons. I want to share with
you that after I read your book,

567
00:37:16.400 --> 00:37:20.079
I was having a conversation with my
seventeen year old daughter who's a senior in

568
00:37:20.119 --> 00:37:23.159
high school, and she says,
norm this, they've just they've thrown out

569
00:37:23.159 --> 00:37:25.360
the whole all the tests for the
end of this year and instead they're going

570
00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:29.000
to make us two projects. I'm
like, hoorreat, that's fantastic. Who

571
00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:30.719
tests are not going to help you? And she goes, yeah, I

572
00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:34.719
agree with you, except that I
don't know what the projects are going to

573
00:37:34.719 --> 00:37:37.199
be. And I'm but I was
just like so excited because I'd read your

574
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:38.920
book and I'd understood just kind of
what was missing, and you helped me

575
00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:43.679
understand it. And now of course
she gets that chance to be able to

576
00:37:43.719 --> 00:37:45.559
teach through her projects what it is
that she cares about. So thank you,

577
00:37:45.639 --> 00:37:51.519
Josh for a lerning both of us. You've got two new people to

578
00:37:51.559 --> 00:37:53.960
the movement. I love when a
reader tells me I introduced it to my

579
00:37:54.039 --> 00:37:58.559
kid. I think as young as
thirteen have done it. I have gone

580
00:37:58.599 --> 00:38:01.119
through and done the exercise in the
book Focus fantastic, and that you gave

581
00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:06.719
all the exercises was so generous,
Josh, beautiful, So definitely definitely worth

582
00:38:06.760 --> 00:38:09.320
picking up. And of course,
one of the things that I want to

583
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:13.079
talk about next, which I think
is just so useful and how you did

584
00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:17.679
this is you distinguish that life has
many passing fancies, some meaningful interest,

585
00:38:17.800 --> 00:38:22.360
and a few life passions which are
rare and endearing, So of course I

586
00:38:22.400 --> 00:38:25.239
want to get your perspective. Why
is passion so important to focus on and

587
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:29.880
develop? I have my own theory, but what's yours? Well, to

588
00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:32.599
me, passion a passion A lot
of people associated with like romance, movies

589
00:38:32.599 --> 00:38:35.880
and things like that. Well,
there's that side of passion, But for

590
00:38:35.920 --> 00:38:39.000
me, it's what you care about
most, what drives you, and that's

591
00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:44.679
what motivates you. If that's what
keeps you going. Passion for me generally

592
00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:51.480
means it's deeper, more complex,
more nuanced, more enduring, and now

593
00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:55.360
it has to merge or it has
to overlap with what someone else finds value

594
00:38:55.360 --> 00:38:59.480
in. Right, So if you're
just doing it for yourself, you're not

595
00:38:59.480 --> 00:39:02.159
going to get very far if you're
But if you're passionate about it and you're

596
00:39:02.159 --> 00:39:05.760
benefiting someone else, and so a
lot of the exercise in it are to

597
00:39:06.039 --> 00:39:09.000
get advice from others, get other
people's views, and that changes very quickly.

598
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:13.400
You start from your passion, but
listening to others and getting advice from

599
00:39:13.400 --> 00:39:20.400
others quickly you find how it's it's
inevitable that we have social creatures. What

600
00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:23.199
we care about will be something,
and somehow we're not gonna be the only

601
00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:28.199
one who cares about these things,
and we'll find a community that, you

602
00:39:28.239 --> 00:39:30.280
know, if we're going in the
direction of entrepreneurship, that will financially reward

603
00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:34.679
us for these things. But it
could be you know, my my podcast

604
00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:38.639
is not it's not a financial thing. It's it's a huge passion, right,

605
00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:45.920
and people really relate to it,
and that's inevitable because they're relating to

606
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:47.880
your passion. So let's grab a
quick question here from one of our listeners

607
00:39:47.920 --> 00:39:51.599
who's asking what movement is that you're
talking that you were talking about. So

608
00:39:51.639 --> 00:39:53.880
what I was referring to, thank
you listener for engaging engaging with us.

609
00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:59.119
What I was what I was referring
to is what I'm pointing to is Josh's

610
00:39:59.159 --> 00:40:01.039
work in active experiential learning. So
do you want to weigh in on that

611
00:40:01.079 --> 00:40:05.639
real quick, Josh, I got
that as a movement, So that's what

612
00:40:05.679 --> 00:40:07.440
I'm saying. Yeah, project based
learning, there's a lot of different ways

613
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:10.559
to put it. I generally think
of as project based learning. And when

614
00:40:10.559 --> 00:40:15.159
I first I remember going to a
conference, an educational conference, and I

615
00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:19.079
was like, what's the project,
what's can career driven? And the people

616
00:40:19.079 --> 00:40:22.280
started telling me and I had to
learn. I learned actually by my very

617
00:40:22.519 --> 00:40:24.920
h I'm going to tell you story. When I was at that conference,

618
00:40:25.480 --> 00:40:30.159
I was it was Friday, Saturday, Sunday, and on Wednesday I was

619
00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:34.480
going to teach entrepreneurship YU and I'm
like, what's the project? What's it?

620
00:40:34.519 --> 00:40:36.199
And they started telling it. I
was like, this makes a lot

621
00:40:36.199 --> 00:40:37.679
of sense, just very quickly.
And the people there were all project based

622
00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:43.079
educators. So I thought, I'm
going to do it this way this semester.

623
00:40:43.320 --> 00:40:46.199
I got two and a half days
with all of these experts. I'm

624
00:40:46.199 --> 00:40:50.079
going to find it and I'm going
to rewrite my syllabus in this time.

625
00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:53.599
And so like Sunday, I'm taking
the train back to New York and I'm

626
00:40:53.639 --> 00:40:58.920
like filling the details of my syllabus. Wednesday. I taught that semester.

627
00:40:59.000 --> 00:41:02.280
I got almost the highest reviews from
students in the school. And it was

628
00:41:02.360 --> 00:41:05.800
up there with like, you know, tenured professors who've been teaching the same

629
00:41:05.800 --> 00:41:08.360
course for decades. And I would
like to say it was me, but

630
00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:12.840
it was really this style of learning
because the students, you know, at

631
00:41:12.840 --> 00:41:17.480
certain point I stepped back and just
let them go. And I can't and

632
00:41:17.559 --> 00:41:20.079
I you know, as I say, I did not create it. This

633
00:41:20.119 --> 00:41:22.639
is a movement that began long before
me. It's I'm just swept up in

634
00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:25.719
it. It's, to my knowledge, is much bigger in K to twelve

635
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:31.079
than at the university and professional level. But that's where I'm bringing it beautiful.

636
00:41:31.159 --> 00:41:35.800
Thank you for that. So now
I want to talk about how you

637
00:41:35.840 --> 00:41:37.800
focus on problems to be solved.
I think I thought it was really refreshing

638
00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:43.519
how you you told us that you
focus on getting clear and the problem to

639
00:41:43.519 --> 00:41:47.079
be solved, not fixating on creating
this solution, and that your system involves

640
00:41:47.119 --> 00:41:51.360
soliciting that the perspective of people who
have the problem you were out to address.

641
00:41:51.400 --> 00:41:52.840
I thought that was just brilliant.
Can you say more about that?

642
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:58.840
Yeah? And entrepreneurship, the venture
capitalist they're very happy forever to come up

643
00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:00.760
with lots of solutions because if they
invest in a lot of them, a

644
00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:04.239
couple will be a big hits and
they'll make a lot of money. But

645
00:42:04.280 --> 00:42:07.320
wait a minute, what about the
people whose things don't work out not so

646
00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:10.440
great for them? So my business
is not to make money off of a

647
00:42:10.480 --> 00:42:14.480
couple of big hits. I want
to help my clients, my students,

648
00:42:15.159 --> 00:42:16.679
So I want to help them change
as a person. I want to help

649
00:42:16.679 --> 00:42:22.840
them develop and grow. If you
start with a solution, you get very

650
00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:27.440
vested and you get very attached to
it. And sometimes your idea of the

651
00:42:27.440 --> 00:42:29.800
problem is not the other people's idea
of the problem, and so you're trying

652
00:42:29.800 --> 00:42:31.320
to get them to buy your thing, but it's not. It's square pegs

653
00:42:31.320 --> 00:42:36.039
in around hole. Whereas if you
focus on the problem, if you understand,

654
00:42:36.079 --> 00:42:39.599
if you're constantly spending your time talking
to people, can you tell me

655
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:43.880
what this problem is? What's this
problem in your words, what's the emotion

656
00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:47.480
that you feel? Because if they're
desperate, that's different than if they feel

657
00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:51.440
helpless, and that's different that if
they feel frustrated, and those could be

658
00:42:51.480 --> 00:42:53.800
all be different solutions. And if
you work on those things, then people

659
00:42:54.000 --> 00:42:58.199
open up more and more of what
their problems are. And the more that

660
00:42:58.239 --> 00:43:01.239
they share their problems it you.
Basically they write your sales copy for you,

661
00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:07.119
and all you have to do is
repeat back to them, is this,

662
00:43:07.159 --> 00:43:08.199
it is this? It is this
it. They'll tell you no,

663
00:43:08.199 --> 00:43:10.280
no, no, it's this,
it's this this, and then they'll start

664
00:43:10.280 --> 00:43:14.880
putting in touch with people who also
have that problem, they'll and because if

665
00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:16.599
they if they see you as a
problem understander and therefore a problem solver.

666
00:43:17.840 --> 00:43:22.920
I mean, who doesn't I if
you come into my life and then I

667
00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:25.719
have fewer problems, I want you
in my life. Right. Oh,

668
00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:29.320
here's I say that. I'm gonna
give away one of my favorite jokes.

669
00:43:29.320 --> 00:43:34.880
And the course is that there's a
technical term in business when you talk to

670
00:43:35.000 --> 00:43:37.519
valuable people in the field, and
the exercise is build up, starting with

671
00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:40.239
friends and family, but working out
to how to speak to the most valuable

672
00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:45.440
people. There's a technical term when
valuable people in the field tell you the

673
00:43:45.559 --> 00:43:52.679
problems. Do you know what that? The technical term is when people when

674
00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:55.199
when valuable book, when valuable people
tell you their problems. Yeah, like

675
00:43:55.239 --> 00:44:00.039
people who have founders and CEOs and
uh, it's some corporations. It's a

676
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:07.000
secret, it's it's a coach,
it's a it's truth. It's the technical

677
00:44:07.079 --> 00:44:08.840
term for when people with resources,
for valuable people, when they tell you

678
00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:14.360
their problems. The technical term for
that is a job offer. I wasn't

679
00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:16.519
going to get there, thank you. They might not they might not have

680
00:44:16.880 --> 00:44:20.559
known that they were saying it.
And if you didn't know how to respond,

681
00:44:22.119 --> 00:44:24.440
you wouldn't be able to turn it
into a job offer. But when

682
00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:28.079
they tell you the problems they want
to be, they want you to help

683
00:44:28.159 --> 00:44:30.760
solve them. And if you if
you can show that I can solve problems

684
00:44:30.760 --> 00:44:34.519
like that, they want you around. Mm hmm lovely. That's just beautiful.

685
00:44:34.519 --> 00:44:37.000
That's that's just such a great way
to serve up how we can be

686
00:44:37.079 --> 00:44:39.280
useful to other people when you get
people to talk to about their about their

687
00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:43.440
problems. Absolutely makes so much sense. And of course I guess that is

688
00:44:43.480 --> 00:44:45.599
what we are we are doing when
we really peel back the onion here.

689
00:44:46.679 --> 00:44:50.760
Okay, so now we have to
talk about your your method initiative. You've

690
00:44:50.800 --> 00:44:53.480
created this beautiful program and you've brought
several cohorts through the program. I don't

691
00:44:53.480 --> 00:44:57.599
know how many people have come through, but it seems that you are doing

692
00:44:57.599 --> 00:45:00.760
your part to give people access to
developing their passions also creating more initiative takers

693
00:45:00.760 --> 00:45:04.480
and entrepreneurs. That's what it seems
like to me from the outside having read

694
00:45:04.519 --> 00:45:07.760
your book. So first, is
that right? And if so, what

695
00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:09.320
do you aspire to do? What
do you want? When are you trying

696
00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:14.360
to create or contribute to society by
doing this well, I could. I

697
00:45:14.360 --> 00:45:17.000
could answer generally, and I'm going
to get more specific because since I've written

698
00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:23.760
that book, the environment has remained
front page news, and from a personal

699
00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:29.400
perspective, a lot of people say, you know, the governments should do

700
00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:32.360
stuff, corporations should do stuff,
but what I do doesn't matter. I

701
00:45:32.360 --> 00:45:36.960
want to unpack this phrase here for
a second. Anything that has the phrase

702
00:45:37.159 --> 00:45:42.639
what I do doesn't matter. This
is a deeply profound statement. I don't

703
00:45:42.679 --> 00:45:47.599
want to like. It's really a
powerful statement. Imagine your parents saying it

704
00:45:47.639 --> 00:45:54.000
to you. It's okay, what
you do doesn't matter. And yet we

705
00:45:54.079 --> 00:45:58.800
have a nation and world full of
people feeling what I do doesn't matter.

706
00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:01.679
Now it's in many areas of life. A lot of people feel frustrated.

707
00:46:01.679 --> 00:46:04.559
They feel like, you know,
I just got to keep my nose down

708
00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:06.800
and you know, do what I
can to get my kids through college.

709
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:10.760
And they feel that if they do
what matters, they if they do what

710
00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:15.840
they care about, it won't matter. And I do not want people feeling

711
00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:17.760
that way. In the area of
the environment. I can tell you I

712
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:22.800
don't know if you can see on
the board systemic change begins with personal transformation.

713
00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:28.559
I've discovered that over and over again. And I also discovered in the

714
00:46:28.599 --> 00:46:32.719
great historical figures that have done dramatic
things like changed entire nations cultures in very

715
00:46:32.719 --> 00:46:38.559
short periods of time. What I
want to bring to the world is the

716
00:46:38.760 --> 00:46:43.840
sense that what I do matters from
experience, not because I said it,

717
00:46:43.960 --> 00:46:47.119
not because you heard the word somewhere, but through personal experience of doing something,

718
00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:52.800
developing the skills not just factual recall
or analysis to planning, but connecting

719
00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:55.239
with people, finding out what they
care about, acting on that so that

720
00:46:55.280 --> 00:46:58.320
they you know, if it's entrepreneurshi, they're like, here, take my

721
00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:01.400
money, if it's changing your community, if it's with family, that people

722
00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:07.360
find you a valuable person that they
want to elevate themselves by knowing you.

723
00:47:07.400 --> 00:47:13.840
They elevate themselves. By you knowing
them, you elevate yourself. Maybe this

724
00:47:13.920 --> 00:47:17.880
sounds like high flutin talk, but
one people doing the exercise in my book

725
00:47:19.119 --> 00:47:22.280
generally get hired or at least several
job offers before they get to the tenth

726
00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:27.719
exercise. Well, I started to
record when I was doing it. I

727
00:47:28.159 --> 00:47:30.599
asked a friend, can I walk
you through these exercises. I'm going to

728
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:32.519
record our conversation so I can put
it in the on the site and so

729
00:47:32.559 --> 00:47:37.039
the people can get these recordings.
And we didn't like the eighth exercise.

730
00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:38.599
He got a job and I was
like and he's like, sorry, I'm

731
00:47:38.599 --> 00:47:42.679
not going to finish the courses the
course because I'm already got the job.

732
00:47:42.719 --> 00:47:45.719
And I was like, oh yeah, so I asked someone else to do

733
00:47:45.800 --> 00:47:51.519
it. The same thing happened with
him and one student at NYU and undergrad

734
00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:57.199
he he worked at some company and
they said, you know, as an

735
00:47:57.280 --> 00:48:00.800
undergrad without a college degree, there's
a limit to what there's a the next

736
00:48:00.920 --> 00:48:06.960
job up from yours you need a
degree for. And so they voluntarily said,

737
00:48:07.079 --> 00:48:08.880
we've made an extra position, a
new position between those two so we

738
00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:15.280
can promote you. Wow, that's
amazing. With that, we're really out

739
00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:15.960
of times? Do you have?
Do you want to leave something with the

740
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:20.039
listeners was saying about say ten seconds, but such a powerful way to finish

741
00:48:20.079 --> 00:48:22.800
right there. You know. Check
out the teTeX talks. Go to joshuaspoduk

742
00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:27.159
dot com and in the upright corner
and see tet x or listen to the

743
00:48:27.400 --> 00:48:31.039
to the the podcast and all my
stuff is there. I I'll give that

744
00:48:31.039 --> 00:48:34.639
to him as well. Thank you, josh It is fantastic to have you

745
00:48:34.679 --> 00:48:37.880
on the show. You are an
inspiration. I'm following you now. You

746
00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:39.079
can run, but you can't hide. But because I'm after you now and

747
00:48:39.119 --> 00:48:44.159
I'm a pretty fast runner. So
look out listeners. If you want to

748
00:48:44.199 --> 00:48:45.960
learn more about doctor Joshua Spodec,
as he said, his books, his

749
00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:49.840
show, this program, his other
works, anything like that, start by

750
00:48:49.880 --> 00:48:52.079
going to his website. It's Joshua
Spodek dot com. Let me spell that

751
00:48:52.119 --> 00:48:57.719
for you. It's Joshua j O
S h u A and then Spodek s

752
00:48:57.760 --> 00:49:00.159
p O d e K dot com. Last week, if you missed the

753
00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:02.440
live show, you can always catch
it be a recorded podcast. We are

754
00:49:02.440 --> 00:49:07.119
on there as Cynthia Forceman talking about
culture Talk, the work that she does.

755
00:49:07.639 --> 00:49:12.360
I'm learning about how discovering how our
archetype as individuals, leaders and companies

756
00:49:12.360 --> 00:49:15.679
gives us clarity and a powerful story
narrative with which to engage relationships in business

757
00:49:15.679 --> 00:49:19.639
and in our personal lives. It's
a really powerful conversation, and she did

758
00:49:19.639 --> 00:49:22.119
talk about all twelve of our archetypes
you can maybe discover yours in the conversation.

759
00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:25.519
Next week, we'll be on the
air with Tim Spiker talking about his

760
00:49:25.599 --> 00:49:30.000
book called The Only leaders Worth Following. See you there. Remember that work

761
00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:31.480
is at least or third of our
life, So let's work on purpose.

762
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:40.760
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to tune in to Working

763
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:45.000
on Purpose, featuring your host,
doctor Elise Cortez, each week on the

764
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:52.559
Voice America Empowerment Channel. Together,
we'll create a world where business operates conscientiously,

765
00:49:52.199 --> 00:49:58.960
leadership inspires impassioned performance, and employees
are fulfilled in work that provides the

766
00:49:59.079 --> 00:50:13.719
meaning and purpose they crave. See
you there, Let's work on Purpose. M