Individuating: Its Path Through Meaning to Actualization

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What's working on purpose anyway? Each
week we ponder the answer to this question.

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People ache for meaning and purpose at
work to contribute their talents passionately and

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know their lives really matter. They
crave being part of an organization that inspires

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them and helps them grow into realizing
their highest potential. Business can be such

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a force for good in the world, elevating humanity. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration to help
usher in this world we all want working

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on purpose. Now here is your
host, Doctor Elise Cortes. Hey,

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everybody, welcome back to Working on
Purpose on Doctor Elise Cortez joining you live

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from Dellas where it's hot here in
the middle of summer, and I welcome

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you back for another Thought for Booking
conversation. As you know, this show

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is really designed to be a thought
leadership series that elevates inspires you with subject

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matter experts and authors and business leaders
from across the globe. Today with us

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we have Danny Gutnek, who is
the CEO of a company called Pathways,

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and he is the author of this
book which is called Meaning at Work and

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It's Hidden Language. We'll be talking
about what some of the contents in this

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book, how they map over to
both of our respective worlds around culture,

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meaning and leadership, and learn about
how does he got into this inquiry here.

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I want you to know that I
actually stalked this man for you.

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I brought him here because I found
him on LinkedIn and when I saw what

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he was doing, I reached out
to him and I said, You've got

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to come on my show and he
said yes. So, Danny, welcome

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to Working on Purpose. Thanks Elise, happy to be here. It's so

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great to have you. And as
you know, I'm prone to do because

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I am Mary much. It's not
even a closet geek. I'm just a

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geek period. I read your beautiful
book cover to cover, and listeners,

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if you haven't picked this thing up, it is a fantastic read. It's

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just you're going to be smarter by
the time you finished the first chapter.

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So what I'm going to be doing
as we talk here, Danny, is

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I've prepared various notes that I want
to make sure in reference, so even

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though we're on video, I want
to be able to reference them. So

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let's wrack. Are you ready?
Sounds good? Let's go all right.

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So the first thing is if you
would, you have a very fascinating and

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expansive life and career. And I
think it would be useful for our listeners

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and viewers to hear the path of
really how it is that you came to

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study meaning and why it's so important
to you, you know, I mean

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I didn't actually know initially that I
was studying meaning. I think that that's

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pretty much a path that a lot
of people take in life, is you

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don't know what you're onto until you're
onto it. But I but I grew

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up. I grew up in the
Midwest, a very traditional set of values,

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and I didn't like the answers that
I got, and they just they

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just weren't satisfactory to me. And
so I had this question a little bit

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about what's life about? And then
I had another interest, which was entrepreneurship.

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I was just a natural entrepreneur.
I'd go hustle, sell tuxedo fish

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to the pet store, and you
know, things like that. And then

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and then the other piece was music, you know, and I really leaned

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towards music that had compelling messages in
it that made me stop and think.

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And that was really the start of
it. And so what happened was over

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time, I just kept feeding these
interests. I went out into the world

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like everybody else does and says,
Okay, I think I've got to go

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get a job. I think I've
got to go pay the bills, and

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you know, I'll go on that
journey. But I noticed that at the

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time, I thought, well,
these these are never really going to match

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up. And I had read this
book called Frogs into Princes, and it

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was it was kind of the start
of the NLP revolution. And while I'm

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not a huge fan of NLP,
some of the things that really jumped out

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to me were they talked about models, therapeutic models first, and I thought,

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oh, therapeutic models. And so
they also said we make models to

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understand the world around us, and
that really resonated with me. And so

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what I started to learn about models. I dove in a little bit about

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models, and I learned, well, you know what, I think it

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might be interesting for me if instead
of kind of searching for the truth of

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life, what's useful in these models. So I went on a journey of

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really kind of exploring models. And
it turns out that like a song is

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a model, it's a meaning model, right, somebody's purporting or giving you

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some sort of sense of meaning about
how they're interpreting the song and the vibe

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and the way that they feel about
it and the way that they feel at

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the moment and their understanding of themselves
and the world about them, and so

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it's that form of art and so
that, you know, then the music

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started to tie in a little bit
to that. And it took a long

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time until I got into recruiting,
until I really understood that maybe maybe this

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path of what's the world about and
work? We spend fifty seven point five

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percent of our adult lives working.
Yeah, So then I started thinking,

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well, if you're there most of
the time, it makes sense that maybe

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this whole idea of being the best
version of yourself should and could start there.

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So that's that's how I stumbled onto
it. And then and then over

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the years of working at recruiting,
you know, I started to redevise the

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interview because in recruiting, I just
I would get frustrated. I had about

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forty recruitings recruiters working for me once, and I would get incredibly frustrated with

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the fact that I'd ask them about
a candidate that was applying for a job,

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and they I'd be like, no, no, no, those are

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your motives that they can't possibly be
the candidates. So I started to tinker

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with the interview, and once we
tinkered with the interview, it blossomed.

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It just opened up into this whoa
like, look at how all these motives

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work. And so initially I thought
I was onto this language of motive,

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motive versus the language of business.
And then I met a model maker,

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So mister model user that was out
out in the world making, you know,

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using all these models and trying to
see what works and what was useful.

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I meet this model user or maker, and the model maker, his

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name was the Joygaswami out of Boston, Texas, went to Stanford became a

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real important collaborator for me in the
sense that we started to have this dialogue

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about human existence and models and how
this works. And it was like,

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oh lo and behold, we all
have models for the different contexts of life

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that we partake in or we engage
in. And so I have a model

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for I have a relationship with the
cosmos. You know, some might call

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it a spiritual journey, and then
that's a model, right, That's how

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I understand and wake up in the
world. And so I've got a model

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for walking down the street. And
oh, by the way, I've spent

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spent ten years now looking at gosh
people that have that are on a work

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journey, they have a model for
that. And what is that model?

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Well, it's how we It's our
meaning. It's not just something that we

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say about ourselves. It's something that
we're willing to wake up and do and

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what we care enough about in life
to actually go do it. That's why,

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that's how I stumbled into it.
I got to comment on a couple

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things Danny and for our listeners,
so that I like to be able to

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teach back some of the things I
hear for our listeners. First, for

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those of us who don't know what
NLP is, it stands for neuro linguistic

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programming, So if you don't know
what that is, that's what he was

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referring to. Second, what I
want to emphasize that Danny just shared with

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us is the importance of really leaning
in when something calls your attention, to

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lean into it, to pay attention
to it's trying to tell you something,

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go with it. Put some energy
into that. By the way. That's

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called passion. When you give something
of yourself, it's called passion. So

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I want to want to applaud that
you did that, Danny, and then

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help make sure our listeners heard that
for themselves. And three what you said

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about that everything is a model?
How interesting is that? Because one of

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the things I wanted you to do
is to find meaning for us as you

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define it. So how do you
define meaning? It's the models by which

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being parses its existence. So another
word better than I thought you were going

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to say. So, So in
other words, you know, how do

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we wake up? When we wake
up, how do we interpret the world?

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How do we show up? And
it turns out meaning model, the

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models by which we parts of our
existence are pretty complex. You know.

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They've got images, they've got feelings, and actually they have a narrative.

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So they have snippets of things that
we tell ourselves about certain situations. There's

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certain people are or ourselves and the
narratives by which we understand the world around

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us. Well, so guess what
you know. I'm due to send my

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book that's coming out later this year
to my publisher this this week for its

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third go round, and I have
a chapter on meaning. I'm going to

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have to quote you on that.
That is one of the most fresh ways

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I've ever heard anybody describe meaning that
I've ever heard. Dan. Thank you

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gorgeous. All Right, so this
is now we're going to get really to

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the meat. So listeners and viewers, what we're going to get into here

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is really we're going to open the
hood here and talk about some of the

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really cool concepts that Danny has presence
in his book. So I'm going to

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refer to my notes here. So, Danny, at one point in your

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book you write, and I quote, meaning isn't just an abstract idea,

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it actually makes us healthier. And
then you distinguish that happiness we get from

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following a path we believe to be
meaningful. It's known as when we say

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that happiness but happen is from seeking
rewards or pleasure, is called hedonic happiness.

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Fascinating to me that you would distinguish
those two in a book about meaning.

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Why Well, So the UCLA and
those are terms used by UCLA and

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by North Carolina who studied happiness,
and I actually think that that they've misqualified

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youdonic because I don't think eudonic is
happiness. I think it's that sense of

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care that you have that you put
into things. And so people that pursue

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hedonic happiness. So in other words, what can I do this next moment

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to be happy? And I think
I think our culture is rife with that

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right now, which is, what's
the next pill I can take? What's

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the next you know, dopamine jolt
that I can get out of a tweet

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or whatever that is? Right?
And so the udonic is actually that thing

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of you know, if you have
kids, it's waking up in the middle

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of the night to feed them,
and there's something that might be uncomfortable about

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that, but there's also something or
frustrating. But there's also some thing that

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in terms of a sense of care, you get a fulfillment data. And

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that also happens at work, right
and and so a lot of people struggle

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with finding that udonic drive for work, which is which is actually what meaning

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you're touching on meaning now? And
and so there's a biological there's a biological

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phenomenon that happens to you when you
actually start to steward your own system of

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meaning. Okay, now you're you're
stepping it into some territory that I want

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to make sure our listeners get as
well. You're talking, you're using the

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word fulfillment, and you know this
because we are in the same space as

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me. But I've bet a lot
of our listeners don't know this that today

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we're focused on helping people to discover
and discern fulfillment in their work. Whereas

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in the past we used to talk
about employee engagement. There's that's still out

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there, but now really the more
forward thinking term is fulfillment. And so

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you're presencing that with what you're just
saying. And that gets me to the

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next thing I want to talk about, which I think is just so crisp

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and so amazing. You you say
that quote. When the way we're living

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doesn't align with what we can consider
important, it conflicts with our sense of

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self. That's what happens with disengagement. Would you see a little bit more

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about that? And I'm going to
give an illustration for my own life as

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well. Yeah, I think I'm
gonna circle circle. I'll circle back around

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to the set of so picture this. Okay, let's say that the model

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have you ever seen inside the movie
inside Out? That it's an animated show

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for children. Oh okay, so
they basically have life experiences built into contexts

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which are like a little orb.
And so if you think about that,

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orbs maybe a magnetized ball. And
so think about that in terms of your

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meaning model if you can make that
mental connection. And so if you just

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start to think that we have all
of these meaning models for a lot of

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different contexts in our life, and
all of those meaning models make up ourselves.

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And so what happens is is that
if if your model's outsourced to an

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authority based construct. So in other
words, if you've got this idea of

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leadership that somebody else defined and it's
not your idea of leadership, you're constantly

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trying to live up into that model
that isn't actually yours, your authentic model.

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And so what happens is these little
polarities. So for example, I

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might be going, oh, I
needed early in life. I need to

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go get the money, right,
I got to go do things and make

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the money. Oh no, no, that's not it. I want to

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go do it for the love,
right right, And so then then you're

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in this duality and it's polarized.
So you start doing it for love,

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and then you're like, oh,
maybe the money thing wasn't so bad,

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right, And you haven't you haven't
actually resolved that duality within yourself. So

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when I'm talking about a polarity,
so if you think about disconnection, what

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happens is that you've got if you
haven't attended to your meaning or your kind

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of what you're doing in life and
kind of made your models conscious. Carl

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Jung has a great quote. He
says, if you don't make the unconscious

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conscious, you will rule. Your
life is faith. So you think that

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you're responding to things, but the
issue is is that you actually have these

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issues with polarity and conflicts internally that
you haven't kind of pulled out into separate

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containers and examined them and decided,
you know, does that work for me?

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And what resonates with me and what
doesn't and started to curate and stewards

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your meaning that way. I got
so much insight into my own life,

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Danny when you said that, I've
known this before, but you gave me

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another way, another model through which
to understand it with what you just offered

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there, and I'll share it with
the listeners and the viewers, and that

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is that there was a period of
time in about i'd say two thousand late

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now, I'd say most of twenty
fifteen, where I had come to a

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place in my life where I'd done
my second run of meeting and work research,

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I was publishing, I was speaking
on the topic, and I knew

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I wanted to do so much more
with it, and I sort of put

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myself in this container box. I
was married at the time, and I

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felt like if I just didn't think
I was, I could go pursue those

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things. And I hated myself for
not pursuing those things and the life that

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came with it. And I knew
that I wasn't letting to my potential and

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giving of myself what I wanted to
give to the world, and it was

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miserable. So definitely my view of
myself did not fit with what I was

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doing. And it wasn't until I
went through my divorce process that the clearing

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came and I got a chance to
step back into that zone and claim it.

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And I'm not telling listeners of yours, please don't hear me that I'm

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saying that you can't claim meaning until
you get divorced. That's not what I'm

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saying. I'm saying that for me, I could only access it until the

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paradigm changed in my life. You
had to find a way to get clarity

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I'm guessing, and I get your
own clarity on things I did. I

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really did. And so I found
so much of your book so helpful to

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be able to explain, Oh,
that's why that happened, that's why I

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did that, that's why I made
that choice. Incredibly insightful with Danny.

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So when you did that, you
actually started to go, oh wow,

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like I'm actually seeing what I'm what
I'm here to do what I yeah,

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and that I was, And then
I knew what I was here to do.

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And because I wasn't doing it,
I wasn't of being it, if

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you will, I hated myself for
it. So yes, when I stepped

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out of my own I was like, I've got no more excuses. Now

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I'm going for it. And I
did go for it. So I've got

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so many things happening right now that
I'm doing to express my purpose and it

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is amazing. So with that,
let us take our first break, shall

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we. I'm Elise Cortez, your
host. We're in there with Danny Gutnak.

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He is the author of Meaning at
Work and It's Hidden Lang, which

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he's alf with the CEO of Pathways. We've been talking a bit about how

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it is he got into this space, how did he find meaning and do

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something about it. After the break, we're going to talk more about how

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we can use it at work and
also on ourselves. Stay with us,

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we'll be right back. Doctor Elise
Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

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and purpose and inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies visioneer for greater purpose

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among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership
and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment,

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performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite Elise

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to speak to your organization, please
visit her at elisecortes dot com. Let's

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talk about how to get your employees
working on purpose. This is working on

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Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To
reach our program today or open a conversation

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with Alise, send an email to
a lease Ali s at elisecortes dot com.

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Now back to working on purpose.
Thanks interesting wetess, and welcome back

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to working on purpose. If you're
just tuning in, my guest is Danny

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Gutenek. He is the author of
this book, Meaning at Work. It's

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Hidden Language. He's also the CEO
Pathways, and we've been talking a bit

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about how we got into the space
of what lured him into the meaning world

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like it has me. We want
to continue the conversation, and there's a

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couple of specific things that I want
to call out in your book, Danny,

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to keep us really close to the
reading base. There's so much great

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material here. So you say,
you're right, and I'm going to put

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this just as it doesn't ask you
to comment on it. So you say,

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the need to actualize is becoming a
cultural phenomenon. Throughout history, there

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have been those who moved away from
institutions and struggle to assume responsibility for their

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own meaning, tap the essence of
who they are. They have used philosophy,

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psychiatry, psychology, and meditation.
One by one, people are slipping

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off the chains, turning away from
the cave wall and crawling out into the

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sunlight to realize their true potentials for
the first time. Why is this happening,

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What's causing? What's under this phenomenon? So a couple of things are

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driving it. One we've we've gotten
to a point in particularly in roughly twenty

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countries, where we've gotten so much
scientific progress that the returns are much smaller.

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We're not seeing these big boons in
say science, we've gotten all about

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all the rights where the freest people
that have ever lived in the history of

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the planet. Right, there's still
issues with it, but you know,

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we're the freest people that have ever
lived. Three we have more stuff.

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We're flourishing at a level that's insane
compared to you know, one hundred years

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ago when people used to make their
own underwear and have to wear them every

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day, and you know, and
so it's it's and so we don't have

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some of those immediate issues on hand. And there's no putting a genie back

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in the bottle either. And so
what's happening is is that people are starting

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to ask themselves more fundamental questions.
And then you get the rise of the

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Internet twenty years ago. And now
what we're doing is we're getting a flood

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of back to the model thing of
gurus and people offering advice and suggestions,

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and we're seeing that the world can
wake up and you can actually express yourself

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in a lot of different ways that
resonate more with us. And so I

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think that level of freedoms and that
level of human flourishing that's existed are working

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in concert to confront this major problem, which is, ooh, the American

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dream might not mean what the American
dream meant, you know, to where

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we all collectively have to agree on
what an American dream is. Now it's

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your American dream, you know.
I think you know a little bit back

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to Young, one of the things
that he mentioned in one of his books

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was scientific industrial political man suffers from
the shift of really of meaning from the

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institution to the individual. And so
this is this is going to be a

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long journey for people. I don't
think that this is a fast fad.

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It's it's going to be a journey
that I think people are going to take.

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It's going to take maybe hundreds of
years for people to figure out what

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self actualization and individuation are and how
they can do it for themselves and to

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that, And that's the next question
I wanted to ask you, Danny.

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I don't think I've ever if I
ever read the term or saw the term

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individuation, it didn't stick with me. So if you would, and you

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also talk about the hero's journey,
and those are extremely compelling to me.

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So first I think, if you
would for our listeners and viewers, what

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is individuating and how can we activate
it for ourselves? Yeah, so in

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individuation is a term that actually Carl
Jung did use, and I thought it

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was a little better than self actualization
just in this perspective that one of the

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things that he studied was what happens
to a healthy psychological human being and what

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does that healthy relationship that it has
to everything else in its environment. And

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he called that individuation, and that
happens when somebody attends to their inner world

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enough to differentiate themselves from say cultural
programs that we've inherited or that we've we've

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chosen. So for example, you
might grow up Catholic and then I'm going

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to try Buddhism now, and so
that's a switch. You're actually taking a

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model and you're going, oh,
I'm casting off this Catholicism and now you

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decide you can use model. But
but individuation is when you go, okay,

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wait, I'm not actually going to
seek the world for my answers.

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I'm going to go inside and find
out how I want to evolve and curate

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my own my own journey and that
that so that's the different differentiated individual that

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that you have with individuation. And
so so what I guess for our listeners

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to be able, in our viewers
to be able to have access to that

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then is it takes going inwards.
So you have to be you have to

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be quiet and listen for the inner
voice and do things that allow you to

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oh, meditate and as you say, the yoga and all those things that

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I've been doing too, and other
suggestions. You know, my biggest suggestion

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on doing it is actually the thing
that I think I've learned most through through

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not only writing the book and but
but experiencing this stuff is there's a lot

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of people that took a long time
to actually understand this stuff. And one

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of the things that myself and actually
my collaborator but Joy, wanted to do

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is provide a set of models for
people to use that that kind of cut

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the curve off of you know,
not skip steps, but cut the curve

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off of experimentation, right, and
so so yeah, and so this this

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approach of say using lenses and then
and as models to kind of view yourself

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from a different perspective, and then
slowly, after you you use the lens,

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you start to embed the model,
and now you actually have a hammer,

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right, and so and you have
different hammers. Maslow talked about the

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golden hammer, where you know,
if you if you think you have a

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hammer, you treat everything else as
a nail, you know, right,

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And so it's like it's like,
well, you can't use capitalism and science,

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it's not going to work. And
you know they can go together and

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work together. But you know,
so that's what I'm talking about by by

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once you actually start to understand the
categories and then and then really dive in

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and and deal with the content of
your model and make it yours. That's

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that's the path. And so,
like I went through all of those things

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that I talked about in the book, and you know, I no longer

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do yoga or any of those things. Every day is yoga, every day

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is a is a meditation. Every
everything that I do is is just it.

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It kind of connects to the next
thing and there's really no separation.

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But but but yeah, yeah,
I get that. Okay, So we've

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been talking about about your models and
such more on an individual basis. Now

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I want to move into more of
the work realm and teams, and this

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next thing that we're going to talk
about is it's awesome to get us going

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on that direction. So again I'm
going to quote from your book. You

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say, before self actualization, people
often used to shore up an identity through

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money, status, belonging things they
must get from other people. Self actualizing

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people have gotten to a place where
they see that such things have limited value.

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Instead, they focus not on how
their peers see them, but on

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what they can produce or create that
they consider worth pursuing. For self actualizing

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people, work is play. They
enjoy the opportunity to test themselves and grow

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to produce something better today than there
was yesterday. They focus on the work

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themselves guilty as charged. Say more
about this delicious concept. Yeah, I

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mean work is play in terms of
I think all of for me, all

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of work is fulfilling. And it
wasn't always that way, even the stuff

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that I don't want to do.
I mean, make no doubt about it.

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There's challenges and there's annoyances, and
there's all of those things that come

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along with normal work. But I
think that for you know, to bring

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it back to the recruiting lens and
to make it be an easy analogy.

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If I'm hiring somebody, the person
that I want to hire is somebody who

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wants to see the wants to see
something done in the universe or in the

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world that that that it shares meaning
with, say Pathways, And because I

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know that if that person wants to
see that done in the world for themselves

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and then they see Pathways as a
vehicle to help go do that, that's

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that's the alignment or that's that that's
really the the ultimate marriage. Now,

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it can't happen that way because you
have to do a certain amount of work

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on your journey to actually really determine
what you want to go see done in

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the world, right, And so
that's the that that's probably the crux of

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the best way that I can explain
how to how to view that. M

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h Well, you know, you
might know might recall that from our first

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conversation when I first reached out to
you that I have been a meeting and

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work and identity researcher for years and
I started that with my PhD. And

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then I I did a postdoc.
So I found fifteen modes of engagement,

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and they looked at the way people
experience me in the level at which people

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experience meaning, and also how they
themselves connected their identity with them through their

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work. And so one of the
modes that I found was living your purpose,

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which is what I'm doing today.
That's number second of them. There

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was also one that I called self
actualizing, and it was where they people

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intentionally use their work, like you're
talking about with Pathways, as a vehicle

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to realize their potential and their their
and cultivate their competencies. So I was

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really people say to me all the
time, wow, you work so much.

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Well, actually, this is all
threaded for me. This work is

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an expression of who I am and
it goes with me everywhere. So yeah,

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I'm working at the grocery store.
I want to check it out.

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Not because I'm saying, hey,
do you want to work with me,

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but it's just it's just my being, right, So it's inseparable for me.

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Yeah. Yeah, you're taking things
from every part of your existence and

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you're plugging it back in as maybe
some of it works as a metaphor,

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you know, into your work,
and some of it's a learning lesson that

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can be applied to what you're doing. So it's all weaves that way,

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doesn't it. It does? And
then I you know, like I have

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a million conversations I caul chair with
you, but I want to stay on

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topic. But yeah, it's just
it's one of those kind of things where

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everything that I end up doing is
an expression of who I am, and

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it just happens that I've found and
I've created work that lets me do that

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in service of a higher calling and
what's needed in the world. And it's

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been a long, hard journey,
as you know, same thing for you,

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but so worth it, so worth
that I'm so glad I did it.

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And speaking of that now, what
we're kind of getting to here is

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what you alluded to earlier in the
program, before the first break, and

402
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that was this idea of uniqueness.
And I had the pleasure of having Marcus

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Buckingh on my show a few months
ago. They've following that man for more

404
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than a decade. He spent twenty
five years at the Gallop organization, and

405
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he helped to steward the whole Strings
movement many went off on his own.

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He's done some other bits of consulting
and assessments. Now but he and I

407
00:27:06.279 --> 00:27:10.039
talked about his current book out that's
called Nine Lives About Work, and one

408
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:14.680
of the things that he talks about
is the importance of organizations of embracing the

409
00:27:14.839 --> 00:27:18.440
uniqueness of each person inside their organization, finding a way to really call out

410
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:22.039
what's special about them, letting them
bring that specialness and you write in your

411
00:27:22.039 --> 00:27:26.759
book. Uniqueness, however, is
seen as an anathema to efficiency, so

412
00:27:26.880 --> 00:27:32.240
organizations mute it, resulting in cultures
that reward homogeneity. Aiming for standardization and

413
00:27:32.279 --> 00:27:34.079
scale may seem to make it easier
to manage people, but it makes you

414
00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:38.079
more vulnerable to competition based on price
or value, and more importantly, it

415
00:27:38.119 --> 00:27:44.039
becomes more difficult for employees and eventually
customers to make an essential connection to the

416
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:48.400
organization. Say more about this fascinating, awesome topic. Yeah, So,

417
00:27:48.759 --> 00:27:52.279
so really uncovering your own going on
your own meaning journey, which is the

418
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:56.319
journey to uniqueness. I think that
that's an individual thing that you have to

419
00:27:56.319 --> 00:28:02.920
do. There's definitely studies that show
that that when you when you start to

420
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:07.119
do that, you start to understand
that you don't bring everything to the table

421
00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:11.240
and you can't solve everything, and
so you seek out differences in other people

422
00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:15.559
to be able to collaborate with them
and do well. And that's that's what

423
00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:21.200
really makes great organizations tick. If
you if you look at studies around teams,

424
00:28:21.559 --> 00:28:23.920
it's when you can see the differences
and appreciate the differences in others.

425
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:27.799
Is when teams really start to do
well. When you go, oh,

426
00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:32.039
that's that's a lease of you know, neck of the woods. That's standing

427
00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:34.440
is neck of the wood, you
know, and really kind of more inquiring

428
00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:37.759
about that. So that's that's one, and then I and then and then

429
00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:45.240
you know, I think there's this
other bit about there's probably still well,

430
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:51.759
not probably, there's a big I
think people get overwhelmed when even leaders,

431
00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:56.039
when they don't have their own sense
of purpose to where they just want,

432
00:28:56.200 --> 00:29:00.519
let's let me get the job done. I don't have time for that,

433
00:29:00.039 --> 00:29:03.400
right And if you haven't done that
own, if you haven't taken your own

434
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:08.720
journey, you kind of lose perspective
on what's really important. And it's people.

435
00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:12.759
You know, organizations are living beings, and the problem is that they

436
00:29:12.759 --> 00:29:15.839
can't speak for themselves, they can't
act for themselves. They need humans to

437
00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:22.400
do it. And so the beauty
of you know, hiring people that are

438
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:25.759
say on the path of the journey
of trying to go, hey, I

439
00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:29.440
need to steward my own meeting.
Now they plug in and they start asking

440
00:29:29.480 --> 00:29:33.359
the question what does the company need
instead of what's my parochial relationship with the

441
00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:37.240
company. Why doesn't the company give
me meaning? Well, the company can't

442
00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:40.200
give you me, right, you
have to do your own and I appreciate

443
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:45.279
that you and I align with you
very much that meaning and fulfillment is really

444
00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:48.160
up to each of us individuals.
It's not up to the managers. It's

445
00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:51.400
not up to the leader. I
love how you use the word steward,

446
00:29:51.480 --> 00:29:55.079
so that's I'm completely with you.
And it's empowering for the individual. I

447
00:29:55.160 --> 00:29:57.359
want the individual to feel empowered.
You can do this. It takes a

448
00:29:57.400 --> 00:30:00.400
little bit of work, but you
can do it. On that note,

449
00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:03.920
let's grab our last break. I'm
Elisee Cortes with Working on Purpose. We've

450
00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:06.680
got on a year with Danny Gutnik. He is the author of Meaning at

451
00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:11.400
Work in Its Hidden Language. We've
been talking more about how these concepts inform

452
00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:14.160
our experience of work and can improve
it. After the record, we get

453
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:17.240
a little bit deeper into leadership and
culture. Stay with us, We'll be

454
00:30:17.319 --> 00:30:22.000
right back. Doctor Elise Cortes is
a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose

455
00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:29.319
and inspirational speaker and author. She
helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders

456
00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:36.279
and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning
infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,

457
00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:41.319
and commitment within the workforce. To
learn more or to invite Elise to speak

458
00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:45.279
to your organization, please visit her
at Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about

459
00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:56.240
how to get your employees working on
purpose. This is working on Purpose with

460
00:30:56.319 --> 00:31:00.240
doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our
program today or open a conversation with Alise,

461
00:31:00.599 --> 00:31:07.200
send an email to a lease Alise
at Elise Coortes dot com. Now

462
00:31:07.599 --> 00:31:11.039
back to working on Purpose. Thanks
for staying with us, and welcome back

463
00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:15.000
to working on Purpose. It's great
to have you. I'm your Hostalise Cortes.

464
00:31:15.039 --> 00:31:17.920
We've went the air with Danny Gutnik. He is the CEO of a

465
00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:21.039
company called Pathways, and he's the
author of this book Meaning at Work in

466
00:31:21.079 --> 00:31:23.559
It's Hidden Language. So Danny,
for this next bit here, I want

467
00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:26.720
to take us through. There's several
more things I want to hit from the

468
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:29.200
work and leadership vanished point that what
you call in a book is just so

469
00:31:29.319 --> 00:31:32.079
youngy, So let's keep going here. The first thing that I want to

470
00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:34.240
share with our listeners and viewers that
I thought was profound and again I didn't

471
00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:38.319
know this is you teach us that
meaning is registered in the limbic brain.

472
00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:42.200
So let me just read this here
too, because it gives us such great

473
00:31:42.319 --> 00:31:47.559
to direct access into this idea.
So you say people know the experience of

474
00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:51.519
meaning of their olympic brains being triggered
when they have a difficult time tying it

475
00:31:51.559 --> 00:31:53.559
to the task of their work.
They do know. They do know,

476
00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:56.960
however, what it is not.
And despite the fact that many organizations have

477
00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:02.839
well articulatedmissions and visions don't trigger the
employees limbic brains. If they don't inspire

478
00:32:04.039 --> 00:32:07.440
you damic happiness, they're missing the
whole goal to tap into the wellspring of

479
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:14.079
commitment, creativity and resourcementess that meanful
work illicits. So get My question to

480
00:32:14.160 --> 00:32:17.240
you is how are better performing leaders
and companies tapping into the limbic brains of

481
00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:21.799
their employees. How are they doing
this? Well? I think it starts

482
00:32:21.799 --> 00:32:29.359
by tapping into your own system of
meaning. And I don't I can't remember

483
00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:34.240
who published the article, but there
was an article recently on trust and how

484
00:32:34.279 --> 00:32:37.400
it's fostered within an organization, and
one of the things they pointed out was

485
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:46.720
that authenticity, right, just authenticity, openness to employees, and actually understanding

486
00:32:46.759 --> 00:32:52.680
who you are as a leader was
super important to building trust. The limbic

487
00:32:52.759 --> 00:32:55.759
brain is is it's just simple,
it's it's it's epineffhrin, right. So

488
00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:01.599
what happens is when epin effrin hits
your heart, muscles relax, your face

489
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:05.559
relaxes a little bit, you start
to feel a little bit more at ease.

490
00:33:06.079 --> 00:33:10.240
And so that's that's what's happening when
you actually have situations of trust and

491
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:14.599
connection. And so you know,
one of the things that I write in

492
00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:16.559
my book, which is about essence
minding, is that it's a structure to

493
00:33:16.599 --> 00:33:21.519
actually, you know, not only
understand somebody else's journey and the strengths that

494
00:33:21.559 --> 00:33:24.400
they bring with you on with them
on their journey and how those go together,

495
00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:30.759
but it's also a methodology on how
to examine yourself and through the words

496
00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:35.680
that you stay and hence you know, hidden language and so those connections.

497
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:37.119
So, for example, when you're
talking to me or I'm talking to you,

498
00:33:37.160 --> 00:33:42.960
there's something particular that's interesting about videos. You have something called prosody,

499
00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:49.079
and so far that was so cool. Say it again, prosody. So

500
00:33:49.119 --> 00:33:52.640
what's happening. What's happening is is
like when we're looking at each other and

501
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:55.200
we're connecting. Even though we're listening
to what each other has to say,

502
00:33:55.359 --> 00:34:00.000
or maybe we're thinking about what we
have to say next, our brains are

503
00:34:00.039 --> 00:34:05.039
picking up thousands of other cues facial
things, you know, small little little

504
00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:08.320
gestures and things like that, And
that's actually kind of are what people call

505
00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:14.679
a BS intenor right. So that
so that'll tie that back a little bit

506
00:34:14.719 --> 00:34:20.320
to limbic residence. If your BS
intent is going off, your fear projectors

507
00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:22.960
and your little brain are going off, and you're starting to distance, you're

508
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:25.599
starting to look for differences and cues
in those differences, and you're starting to

509
00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:29.760
say, oh, this is there's
something off here, right, And so

510
00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:35.119
to foster that, you really to
really tap limbic residence in an organization,

511
00:34:35.480 --> 00:34:37.639
you have to be on the journey
of your yourself too. You have to

512
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:40.800
really get clear with yourself about who
you are and what you're here to do

513
00:34:40.880 --> 00:34:45.480
and what you care about, and
you have to learn how to communicate that

514
00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:51.199
authentically to others. This is not
quite on point. Well, two things.

515
00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:52.480
One, just this morning, I
had a great conversation with somebody that

516
00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:55.719
I also met on LinkedIn, and
he and I had a conversation today and

517
00:34:55.840 --> 00:35:00.400
will be I'm going to coach him. And that was totally I would definitely

518
00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:02.840
say that would be limbic residence,
the way that we found each other on

519
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:07.719
LinkedIn, and just how we're connected. But I was laughing because when you

520
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:12.719
were saying something about how it is
that we take in information and where sometimes

521
00:35:12.760 --> 00:35:15.480
where things are aligned are disconnected,
I just have to quickly tell the story.

522
00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:17.440
It's so funny. Last week and
I was out running here at white

523
00:35:17.480 --> 00:35:21.960
Rock Lake in Dallas, and I
ran nine and a half miles around white

524
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:25.920
Rock Lake. I'm walking down and
cooling down. I'm in my shorts and

525
00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:30.079
my running suit here or running bra
and out of the corner of my eye,

526
00:35:30.119 --> 00:35:34.679
I see this bicycle's coming up and
I hear, hey, are you

527
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:37.400
single? I want to get a
girlfriend from my friend over here, at

528
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:42.400
which point I turned my head and
I face the gentleman that's talking to me.

529
00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:45.760
Each of us now have a new
data registered as we each face the

530
00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:49.920
other, and he says, oh, And I start laughing because I immediately

531
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:52.440
recognized the disconnect, and I say, how old are you, darling?

532
00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:54.519
And he goes twenty five? And
I said, how old is your friend?

533
00:35:54.679 --> 00:35:58.320
Twenty five? And I said,
well, that was a long time

534
00:35:58.360 --> 00:36:00.719
ago for me. He goes,
well, as you, you uhould consider

535
00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:01.880
it a compliment and you turn it
off and the road off. But the

536
00:36:01.960 --> 00:36:06.159
funny thing was right, So we
only got that new data when we each

537
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:08.719
looked at each other, and it
was just so funny. So that's what

538
00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:13.199
I was laughing at when you talked
about that limbit resonance sort of thing.

539
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:15.559
Yeah, we're we're doing a lot
of things that we don't know we're doing,

540
00:36:15.639 --> 00:36:20.480
right. It's crazy, you know, it's just crazy, all right,

541
00:36:20.519 --> 00:36:22.679
So let's keep moving here. We
started to talk about this before,

542
00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:27.039
but I appreciate this, and it's
important, especially for people that are listening

543
00:36:27.039 --> 00:36:30.920
from the vantage point of leadership and
wanting to build that fulfillment in their employees

544
00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:34.280
or give them access to it.
And it goes back to that idea of

545
00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:37.639
making meaning possible. So there's always
organizations that are doing so much good work

546
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:42.000
trying to make their culture a place
people want to come to. But you

547
00:36:42.119 --> 00:36:45.280
distinguish that organizations can't solve the need
for meaning for their employees, not in

548
00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:50.039
the sense of providing meaning anyway,
but they can make it available through their

549
00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:52.800
culture and doing so, as you
say, is monumentally important to the actualization

550
00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:58.880
and activation of individual potentials. Say
more, and how can organizations do that?

551
00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:04.280
Yeah, so helping people grow personally
is probably one of the most important

552
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:07.880
things that that organizations can do.
And I think it comes down to you

553
00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:13.960
have to open up a little bit
and stop trying to hoard your talent and

554
00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:19.280
realize that your company is a living
network, is a living being that people

555
00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:22.920
are going to come in and out
of over time, and the work should

556
00:37:22.920 --> 00:37:27.559
be able to stand for itself,
right, and if you can categorize it

557
00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:30.519
that way and then kind of put
that on, you know, off to

558
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:31.519
the side and say, hey,
we've got a job to do. We've

559
00:37:31.519 --> 00:37:35.880
got to go generate profits and do
these things. But it's a network with

560
00:37:35.960 --> 00:37:40.880
people coming in. How can I
develop people? So personal development doesn't actually

561
00:37:40.960 --> 00:37:45.400
happen if I, as a manager, am sitting there and saying, well,

562
00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:49.920
at least needs to learn this,
you know, as a leadership approach,

563
00:37:50.199 --> 00:37:53.320
if at least has no interest in
learning that as you know, right,

564
00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:57.440
and so you're like, oh,
gosh, I got to take this

565
00:37:57.639 --> 00:38:00.639
class on this new leadership mod role
that you know, somebody read a book

566
00:38:00.679 --> 00:38:02.599
on, and it's great, but
I have no interest in doing that.

567
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:07.880
Right. That's not actually personal development, and that stuff isn't going to stick,

568
00:38:07.239 --> 00:38:10.519
right. And so one of the
things that I've been doing with with

569
00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:15.519
organizations is actually running workshops. And
what we do is we use the content

570
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:20.199
of the person. So for example, if if a least comes into the

571
00:38:20.199 --> 00:38:23.239
workshop, it's like, we use
your content first to help you understand and

572
00:38:23.519 --> 00:38:28.079
give you the tools to analyze yourself
and then to turn around and how to

573
00:38:28.159 --> 00:38:30.679
channel that into what the organization is
doing. Right. So, if you

574
00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:37.320
don't get clear on you, you're
going to constantly confabulate, you know,

575
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:39.960
or contort you know, where you
where do you stop? And the company

576
00:38:40.039 --> 00:38:44.159
ends? And all this other stuff. Right, So what organizations can do

577
00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:51.360
better, I think is actually supply
people tools to help them help themselves and

578
00:38:52.039 --> 00:38:57.679
go with the understanding that hey,
they're at your company for a reason already

579
00:38:57.760 --> 00:39:01.880
that largely they don't even understand,
and and have that faith and confidence that

580
00:39:01.920 --> 00:39:05.719
what you're, if you're, what
you're doing in the marketplace is important and

581
00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:08.840
you you know you yourself and your
leaders care about it. Your people will

582
00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:13.960
come into the company and and and
maybe some ancillary skill that they think they're

583
00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:19.039
developing on individuation ends up turning into
Wow, I can really channel this towards

584
00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:21.360
a job. I've got a great
story about that, by the way,

585
00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:25.679
if you want to hear it.
Yeah, I so. So when I

586
00:39:25.719 --> 00:39:30.199
was Essence, I went in in
essence mind organizations for a while, which

587
00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:34.639
is really trying to help them uncover
their meaning language within the organization. And

588
00:39:34.639 --> 00:39:37.719
in doing that, I started to
uncover all the models and you know,

589
00:39:37.280 --> 00:39:42.559
conflicts they had within within even their
structure. But what was important. I

590
00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:45.159
came across this one lady once and
she was working in a hospice company and

591
00:39:45.559 --> 00:39:49.400
I was interviewing her and she said, you don't understand. My life has

592
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:52.639
no meaning at all. And I
said, what do you mean? And

593
00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:55.119
she goes, well, you know
a little over a year ago, my

594
00:39:55.119 --> 00:39:59.840
my oldest son died, and then
a few months later my husband died.

595
00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:04.440
My oldest son was unexpected. Then
my husband died, and she goes and

596
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:08.000
I've just been my life doesn't have
any meaning anymore. I really don't care.

597
00:40:08.559 --> 00:40:12.559
And I said, now you're working
in the she goes. I don't

598
00:40:12.559 --> 00:40:15.440
work on the front line. I
don't do the hospice thing. And the

599
00:40:15.480 --> 00:40:17.599
company was by the name had the
name Crossroads, and what they have as

600
00:40:17.639 --> 00:40:22.320
a model that's called even more Care. And what even more Care means is

601
00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:28.400
that the people, the nurses and
the aids are attending deaths time of death

602
00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:31.880
more often than other hospices, and
so they've set their call schedule up to

603
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:36.280
make sure that families have what they
need. Instead of like a lot of

604
00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:38.559
hospice models which are just like,
you know, call me when they pass,

605
00:40:38.719 --> 00:40:42.320
or we'll try to be there or
whatever, they have a model actually

606
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:45.440
set up to do that. Well. She was telling me that after her

607
00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:49.239
husband and her son died, they
both had a ton of medical death and

608
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:51.920
she was going to go bankrupt.
But what she did is she got so

609
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:57.639
frustrated with it that she packaged it
up and just shared everything with the hospitals

610
00:40:57.679 --> 00:41:00.719
and with the doctors and lo and
behold, they relieve the debt and some

611
00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:04.679
of them worked out things with her, and so she was like, you

612
00:41:04.679 --> 00:41:06.960
know, it freed me. And
I said, now, you mentioned that

613
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:08.440
in the course of your job,
one of the things that you're doing is

614
00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:15.199
you're helping people, are making sure
that Crossroads gets paid. You're an accounts

615
00:41:15.400 --> 00:41:17.320
receivable and she goes yeah. And
I said, you also mentioned that you

616
00:41:17.320 --> 00:41:21.800
had some pretty involved conversations with people, and she goes yeah. And I

617
00:41:21.880 --> 00:41:23.400
go, are you buy sharing any
of this with them? And she goes,

618
00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:27.400
yeah, I try to help them
through it by sharing what I did.

619
00:41:27.559 --> 00:41:30.440
And I go, well, it's
interesting because you're providing even more care

620
00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:36.519
even though you're in a role that
might not be directly related to that even

621
00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:38.719
more care model. You're still caring
for that customer, that family, that

622
00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:45.760
patient's family, that well after the
patient has gone and they still have struggles

623
00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:49.079
and legal bills and things like that. Wow. She goes, I didn't

624
00:41:49.079 --> 00:41:52.280
see that. And so a week
later she I came back out to Saint

625
00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:55.039
Louis and I was chatting with her
and she said, you know what,

626
00:41:55.639 --> 00:42:00.519
I have a whole I understand what
meaning at work is now and she goes,

627
00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:04.239
I've been doing this a bit.
I've actually plugged into the job a

628
00:42:04.280 --> 00:42:07.320
little bit more. I have a
sense of purpose about it. And she

629
00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:09.239
goes, and I'm more fulfilled than
I ever have been. She goes,

630
00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:15.000
thank you for doing that. And
so that's a limited example of how powerful

631
00:42:15.159 --> 00:42:20.400
just helping people realize that they can
channel what they're doing they might not be

632
00:42:20.440 --> 00:42:24.280
cognizant of doing it into the organization. Beautiful example. Danny and I do

633
00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:29.480
exactly that kind of work with my
clients too. And it's also you're speaking

634
00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:31.559
of really kind of what logo therapy
does, which is helping people get access

635
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:36.400
to their meeting systems too. But
leaders, that is what you can do

636
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:39.079
for your people too, helping them
understand just the difference they're making to the

637
00:42:39.079 --> 00:42:43.400
lives of the people. Sometimes they
do need to have an articut like Danny

638
00:42:43.480 --> 00:42:45.320
just did, and that is you
do something like that for your people and

639
00:42:45.320 --> 00:42:49.400
you've changed their lives, just like
Danny changed this woman's life. And so

640
00:42:49.960 --> 00:42:52.199
that is a great tip right there. Danny, we're getting so close to

641
00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:54.880
being out of time. I want
to ask you two more things really quick.

642
00:42:54.960 --> 00:43:00.519
So I want to talk about this
really interesting idea that you talk about

643
00:43:00.519 --> 00:43:01.800
that came from Maslow. And the
reason I want to do this, Dandy,

644
00:43:01.880 --> 00:43:05.360
is that so much of what I'm
trying to do in the world and

645
00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:07.639
probably you too, is I'm trying
to help people discover or get access to

646
00:43:07.679 --> 00:43:10.960
their passion and their purpose and then
unleash it bring it into the world because

647
00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:15.119
we need it terribly. The difference
of that actually makes and so what I

648
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:19.400
found so compelling is you write,
quote Maslow believe the right kind of culture

649
00:43:19.440 --> 00:43:22.920
could catalyze self actualization at mass scale
and address many of society's ills. I

650
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:27.760
agree such a culture is what we
are working toward by identifying a process for

651
00:43:27.880 --> 00:43:31.360
meaning in such a company. An
organizing principle for getting things done isn't adherence

652
00:43:31.400 --> 00:43:35.880
to a cultural norm, but limbic
resonance, which we talked about before.

653
00:43:36.159 --> 00:43:39.000
Would you say a little bit more
about how limbic resonance is so important in

654
00:43:39.079 --> 00:43:45.199
terms of that unifying aspect and how
it cascades. I think you know what's

655
00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:50.960
interesting is is clearly, when you
trust those around you, you can be

656
00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:53.719
more open, you can be more
of yourself, and I think that that's

657
00:43:53.800 --> 00:44:00.119
the way people feel I don't know
if it's practical or pragmatic to expect that,

658
00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:06.960
because it's just the way that organizations
are are, you know, constructed,

659
00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:12.440
and where humanity's at at this point. The mass scale thing Maslow didn't

660
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:15.199
know. It was just a belief. I don't know that it's possible.

661
00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:19.679
It's just a it's it's a it's
a thought in terms of we have heard

662
00:44:19.719 --> 00:44:23.679
immunity, right which is a common
term right now with COVID. But it's

663
00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:31.199
like, if everybody starts attending to
their own journey and evolving their particular models

664
00:44:31.280 --> 00:44:36.920
of work or whatever that is,
it makes sense that that's going to help

665
00:44:37.039 --> 00:44:42.360
others feel more comfortable attending to those
things and calling out what they think is

666
00:44:43.239 --> 00:44:46.559
them and their contributions and who they
are and those types of things. And

667
00:44:46.599 --> 00:44:52.519
so it's a concept out there,
but it's I think that it's it might

668
00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:57.280
be might be possible. Well,
I think it is in the sense that

669
00:44:57.719 --> 00:45:00.840
what's what I believe is happening is
that we're developed being an elevated consciousness by

670
00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:04.159
doing the kind of work that we're
doing here, hoping it will become more

671
00:45:04.199 --> 00:45:07.079
self aware, and we're elevating our
consciousness and Therefore, as we continue to

672
00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:12.800
elevate that conscious, we can thread
a greater massive people together and we head

673
00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:15.440
toward mass scale. How does that
take I don't know, but that's certainly

674
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:19.840
on that journey to help that happen. All right, crush one, crush

675
00:45:19.880 --> 00:45:24.920
your face. Yeah, I'll just
keep getting up to work the last thing

676
00:45:25.039 --> 00:45:28.639
really really quick and maybe about a
minute or so, Danny, I love

677
00:45:28.760 --> 00:45:32.760
this organizational dynamic lingua franca that you
have developed. This is the most fresh

678
00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:37.119
concept. Quickly, What is it? Why is it important? So it's

679
00:45:37.239 --> 00:45:39.800
it's the meaning language of an organization. We have four different languages. We

680
00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:44.199
have like a scientific language, which
is data, you know, facts,

681
00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:47.360
things like that. We've got regulatory
language, which is responsibilities and roles.

682
00:45:47.679 --> 00:45:52.199
We've got business language, which is
marketing and sales, right, and then

683
00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:55.159
we have a meaning language. And
everybody has their own meaning vernacular. But

684
00:45:55.320 --> 00:46:00.440
when we're talking about concepts within the
organization, a lot of times we don't

685
00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:04.199
know. And this happened when I
was interviewing people at Baptist San Antonio Hospital,

686
00:46:04.280 --> 00:46:07.639
five different locations. What happened was
different people at different edges of the

687
00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:10.480
city. We're talking about the organization, the same way, but they weren't

688
00:46:10.559 --> 00:46:15.639
using the same words, and so
to be able to tie those that cognition

689
00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:19.000
to oh, these are two these
concepts are going the same way, but

690
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:22.599
you guys are talking about them completely
differently. How do we meld that together?

691
00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:24.880
Now, that would be the organizational
dynamic Lingua franco, where it's like,

692
00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:30.679
oh, yeah, what Alise said
is really important, and what she

693
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:32.920
said, she said it better than
I did. Right described that concept.

694
00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:37.199
And so what happens is with organizational
meaning, the more that we actually can

695
00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:42.719
tie in and understand it, the
more that we can go. Elise is

696
00:46:42.760 --> 00:46:45.000
going to learn what I have to
say about the organization on its journey,

697
00:46:45.159 --> 00:46:49.199
and I'm going to learn from at
least her perspective on it, and the

698
00:46:49.280 --> 00:46:52.440
fact that we're all talking you know
that parable of the Eight Blind Men and

699
00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:55.559
the Elephant. No, but we
probably don't have time for it though,

700
00:46:55.599 --> 00:47:00.800
but hang on to that. We're
out of time to tell you thank you

701
00:47:00.920 --> 00:47:02.480
so much for letting me find you, Lassa, you come on the show,

702
00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:07.679
let me totally digest your book.
It was fantastic. Thank you for

703
00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:12.000
joining us, beautiful, There was
enjoyable. Thanks Elise. Welcome listeners,

704
00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:14.119
and viewers. If you want to
learn more about Danny, his work,

705
00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:17.199
or his book, go start by
visiting his website. It's Pathways dot io.

706
00:47:17.960 --> 00:47:20.719
Last week, if you missed the
live show, you can catch a

707
00:47:20.800 --> 00:47:23.880
be recorded podcast or on YouTube,
we were on the air with Hugh Baloub

708
00:47:24.039 --> 00:47:29.480
talking about his work developing transformational leadership
in nonprofit and church organizations. And he

709
00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:34.960
also shared, like Danny did,
somewhat how his decades have experienced conducting symphonies

710
00:47:35.039 --> 00:47:38.960
inform his own leadership and practice developing
it in others. Fascinating. Next week,

711
00:47:39.039 --> 00:47:42.440
we've got a special show for you. On air with us will be

712
00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:45.880
Shery Elliott Yere talking about her bold
new venture as the zentual Gal. Her

713
00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:51.079
newfound purpose to bring intimacy back in
the lives of couples promises to be a

714
00:47:51.159 --> 00:47:53.960
juicy conversation. This is not just
for for show, but this is true

715
00:47:54.039 --> 00:47:58.400
transformation and coming into your being.
See you there number that works at least

716
00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:00.400
or third of our lives, and
Danny says, fifty senescent. So let's

717
00:48:00.440 --> 00:48:06.159
work on purpose. We hope you've
enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to

718
00:48:06.239 --> 00:48:10.320
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your
host, Doctor Elise Cortes each week on

719
00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:16.039
the Voice America Empowerment channel. Together, we'll create a world where business operates

720
00:48:16.159 --> 00:48:23.280
conscientiously, leadership inspires impassioned performance,
and employees are fulfilled in work that provides

721
00:48:23.360 --> 00:48:29.360
the meaning and purpose they crave.
See you there, Let's work on purpose.