Ikigai: A Framework for Finding Meaning, Purpose, and Harmony

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortez. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working

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on Purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortez. Welcome back to

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the Working on a Purpose Show.
Thanks for tuning in again this week.

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I'm your host, Elise Cortez,
joining you live from Dallas Bush's home base

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for me. If you've been tuning
in for a while, you know this

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program is all about helping people create
more meaningful and purposeful lives and equipping leaders

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inside organizations to cultivate meaning and purpose
that elicits passion inspired contribution, innovation,

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and persevering performance. I talk with
my guests to draw on their expertise and

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share my own experience consulting speaking in
developing workforces across the globe. Before we

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get to the program, let me
give a shout out to my sponsor,

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Buy. Each week in these conversations, I hope you walk away with something

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you can immediately use in your life
or work, and if I can do

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anything to help you along your journey, go to my website at least Cortez

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dot com and use the contact me
feature to message me. Let's open a

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conversation and see what's going on for
you and how I might be able to

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help. Whether you want to learn
more about how to develop purpose inspired leadership

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and meaning and field culture in your
organization, you want to see about joining

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a catchfire online inspiration, accountability or
mastermind community to nurture your own passion and

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purpose, or you'd like me to
speak for your company or conference at an

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event. I'm glad we're connected and
thanks for tuning in with us today is

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Justin Barnes, who has produced more
than six nonfiction books sort of a variety

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of leading publishers. He's the author
of Ikey Guy, Discover Your Reason for

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Being, which we'll be talking about
today in this conversation. You do it

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to today from London, England,
justin Welcome to working on Purposeless Forking to

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you, and it's so great to
have you from across the pond. Thank

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you for joining us this afternoon your
time and morning my time. I should

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say I'm not in London, amo, I've moved to this coast, a

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little town called Hastings. I should
have updated that on my profiles. Yeah,

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Hastings, Okay, yes, I
live in a little old medieval house

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and Hastings. How wonderful. I
want to come visit. I'll be right

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there. You're very welcome. Well, let me tell my listeners how I

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found you. I always like to
share how I source these amazing conversations that

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I have. I am writing my
book about about passion and purpose, of

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course, and I can't really write
about purpose without it also including Eke Guy.

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Right, So I did. I
went on Twitter. I realized I

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don't really know much about this.
I know of it, I know the

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general con but I don't know much
about it. So why do I do.

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I go on to Twitter and I
type an eager guy and looking for

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people who have some authority on this, and I found you. I reached

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out to you. I reached out
to you and invited you to come on

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the show, went and bought your
book on Amazon. Read it. It's

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wonderful, and then you delightfully said
yes, I'll come talk with you on

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the show. So here we are. Thanks for that. That's a pleasure.

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Yeah. So we have to first
start, if we can, with

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two things, one the correct pronunciation
and then of course the definition of ega

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guy. So first, if you
will, there's a couple of ways that

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I've heard it spoken. Just what's
the right way? Well, I've heard

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see I sometimes say it wrong as
well. I say ikey guy, but

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I think it should be ekey guy. So he's a kind of eke e

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guy. So yeah, but if
I do slip into ikey guy, please

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excluse me. I don't know why. I just find it easier to say

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that way. So yeah, I'm
in terms of working definition, there is

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no direct translation in English, but
in simple terms it kind of described as

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value in living or reason for living
and ikey guys in an amalgamation of two

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words, actually ikey which means to
live, and guy, which describes value

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or worth or worth or reason.
And the word dates back to somewhere in

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this sort between the eighth and twelfth
century actually, and the guy part derives

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from the word kai, which means
shell, and back in those times shells

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were highly valued. So this idea
of value in life, and I found

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when I was doing the research that
Japanese people have lots of different interpretations of

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it. Again, it's not simple, I mean, just a small selection

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of some of the descriptions I came
across. People talked about the joy and

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a sense of well being from being
alive, a reason to jump out of

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bed in every morning, useful purpose, the object that makes your life worth

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living. So it might be a
person, or a job, or a

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subjective happy feeling. But my favorite
one, which I've mentioned the book,

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was sort of a springboard for tomorrow. So something gives you that the purpose

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to carry on and keep going.
And do you know interesting things, I

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like that springboard for a tomorrow.
Just that works for me too, Yeah,

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you know, And it's it's it's
I guess it's in essence, it's

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about living a personally meaningful life,
you know that really expresses your true self,

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You're inner self, you know,
making the most of every day,

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not just the big things, but
also the smallest things in life, and

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and not measuring your life just by
extrinsic things like wealth or social status.

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It's it's the things that really feed
your soul. So that's that's kind of

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that gives you a bit of a
an introduction and so wonderful way to start

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the conversation too. Okay, so
the next thing I want to do for

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our listeners. I always like them
to be able to really walk away from

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the shows justin with something that they
can put to use for themselves. And

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so next, if we can,
will you list out the four as spec

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said overlap to comprise Egy Guy for
us, Well, I would suggest the

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listeners. You know, once you've
listened to this chat, go when you

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google Icky Guy that one of the
first things you will see is this vend

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diagram for inter linked circles. And
the four circles are what you love,

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what the world needs, what you
can be paid for, and what you're

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good at and they all linked together
and at the center of the circle is

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Ikey Guy. Now what you love
and what the world needs. That kind

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of links to your mission in life, what the world needs, and what

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you can be paid for. That's
kind of your vocation, what you can

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be paid for, and what you're
good at. That links together sort of

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towards your profession and what you are
good at and what you love. That's

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your kind of your passion. So
I suppose the diagram implies that at the

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center there is one thing ikey guy, which is just which has all of

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these elements as I think I'll talk
about a bit later. I think it's

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a bit more complicated than that.
But for this diagram, actually, because

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when I started doing the book,
I thought that I kept seeing this diag,

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I thought, oh, there must
be some sort of ancient text that

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it comes from, an ancient definitely
scroll. But actually what I discovered was

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it derived from a guy from Guernsey
called Mark Wynn. And he's actually he's

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got he's causing himself a change maker
and innovation specialist, and he's trying to

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build a little community in Guernsey of
people who live long and healthy lives.

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He's quite quite an interesting person to
look into it. But anyway, he

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wrote a blog about Ikey guy,
and what he did to illustrate it was

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he took this diagram which I actually
used to have the word purpose in the

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center of it, not ikey guy, and just change that one word,

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and that became this meme that went
all around the world. But actually it's

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just it is a very useful way
to framework to sort of think about the

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concept. So I think it does
have a good value, and that's that's

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why I used it kind of to
structure my book, because it just seemed

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a good way to kind of get
across the basic principles. Gives us access

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for sure. Yeah. Well,
what I find also interesting about you one

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that you've written more than sixty books. That's amazing, astound, and I

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don't think you've ben on the planet
that long, so that's impressive. But

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I think it's written. I think
ritten already. Did I think it's over

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seventy I've written probably about thirty something
thirty thirty four five, I'm not sure

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exactly, but a lot. That's
impressive. So I had that means I

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just got a hurt from birth this
one right, just let's get too and

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I ready. Well, also what's
interesting about you? I know you you

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mentioned that you started as a sports
writer, interviewing soccer starts like David Beckham.

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How in the world did you end
up writing Uneager Guy. Yeah,

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it's kind of odd, isn't it
really. I actually, when I was

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a kid, I wanted to be
a sportsman and various. I was one

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of those kids that was very good
at most sports but master of none.

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So I never quite reached my aim. But I then sort of fell into

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I had to do something after not
quite making it with what I wanted to

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do, and I fell into a
sports writing and I ended up working for

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Manchester United magazine, very famous football
club over here. And yes, I

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ended up sort of fell into into
unis very famous people like David Beckham and

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others who are around at the time. Soccer styles you could, we could

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live soccer footballs, you could,
and yeah, but I enjoyed that work.

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And one thing I absolutely enjoyed was
interviewing people and just finding out about

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their lives. So I'd write features
about people and also I do a lot

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of research. But after a while
I did it for a few years and

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I was thinking, well, i'd
like to do I don't just want to

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write about sports. It'd be interesting
to do something else as well, and

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I started doing. Me and a
friend of mine set up a company where

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we started pitching books to cut publishers, and we'd go away and basically produced

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the book, completely, write it, edit it, get designers to to

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sort of lay it out for us, et cetera, and then I went

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I subsequently went solo myself. But
but I was always trying, we always

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trying to look we both were sort
of like, I would like to do

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other stuff, but you kind of
get pigeonholed into a certain area in your

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life. And so I still got
a lot of sport, and I still

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enjoy it, and I still do
some stuff in sports as well, but

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I loom to do other things,
and so I was trying to just so

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trying to just excuse me apply my
skills to other errors. But you know,

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so every time I, you know, when I went to meet publishers,

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I always say, you know,
I can do other things as well.

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And someone recommended me for this,
this this icky Guy book a couple

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of years ago, and when they
came to me, I didn't I didn't

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know this the subject to another concept
at all, So but I looked it

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up and immediately kind of resonated with
me, so I was really really pleased

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to take it on. And then
obviously the task of really getting stuck into

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reading everything I could about the subject, you know, academic studies, and

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and it was it was a real
pleasure, and I learned quite a lot

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from it, which I've sort of
taken into my own life. So you

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know, that's I guess in a
way, it was a sort of unconscious

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activity. Guy. Over a number
of years, I had a sort of

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idea, a slight a sense of
purpose. I wanted to move in a

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different direction, but it took me
quite a long while to get there.

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And you know, since then,
I've actually just done another book on another

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concept called SISU, which is a
finished concept because we can talk about that

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maybe another side. Yes, I
definitely want to have you come back and

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talk about that, So hold that
fut on that one. Don't say anything

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more about it, because I want
to bring you back and just talk about

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that because I think it sounds fantastic. Well, So the other thing that

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I think is interesting justin everybody,
I think on most people they think have

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certainly heard people talk about purpose,
but more and more we are hearing about

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ika Guy So why do you think
that ika guy is such an important concept

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in today's times. I think it's
sort of it gives you a bit of

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a framework for understand you know.
I think we're all just looking for meaning

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in life, aren't In different ways. We're trying to sort of kind of

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under what it all was it all
about? And some people equally look for

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in religion or otherwise. I suppose
we live in a more secular world now,

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and I think people look for answers
outside religion. I mean, looking

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at in Japan, they the more
unifying philosophy there is ekey guy rather than

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religion. They do have the Shinto
belief system, which is which again I

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think it has some links to Ikey
guy because it's this idea of having eight

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million gods, so they see they
see gods in every objects and things around

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them, and that sort of abuse
this idea of you know, taking care

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of things and doing things properly for
the greater good, which I think,

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as we Stort might discuss later that
that kind of comes into the Ikey guys

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what the world needs. So,
I don't know, I think maybe also

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the world's changing so fast, isn't
it. We're all just trying to you

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know, where do we fit into
it. You know, there's AI,

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there's machine learning, there's automations.
Everything's moving so fast, and I think

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a lot of us are trying to
find a work life balance as well.

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And I think ikey Guy again is
quite a good way of working out what

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you want to do and what what
how important things are to you, because

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it invites you to kind of look
more inside you. I'm not on the

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surf and I was just on the
surface level of you know, what makes

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me most money or you know what's
fun. It's like, well, what

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feeds the soul? Really? Mh
well said, very well said, And

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I also agree. I also practice
logotherapy if they've ever heard of that before,

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justin it's right, it's about that, yeah, yeah, and so

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definitely it really is. It's a
way of living basically that encourages all of

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us to really look for and discover
and meaning in the moment, meaning across

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life on the on the on the
principle that meaning is the ultimate motivator in

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life. And so what you're getting
at certainly smacks with with with my world

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as well. Beautifully said as well, I might say, thank you,

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So you've already mentioned a few things
about what makes ekey guy beneficial to us,

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but why else, what else,
why else might we compel people to

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consider pursuing their ekey Guy? Well, I was thinking about I mean,

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I feel really bad saying this actually
in an American show, but I was

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thinking about the American dectoration of independence, which deems the pursuit of happiness that's

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an alien all rights. And you
know, a far bit for me to

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sort of say, you criticize the
ideal, but I think it puts a

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lot of pressure on people because you
know, lives, You know, there

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are moments of great joy, but
they can't you know, there's a lot

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of struggle as well in between times. And I think especially today as well,

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where you were, especially in the
social media area, where you're sort

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of bombarded with sort of photoshopped images
of people's lives and you know, they're

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supposedly perfect lives. You know,
we all put our best side on on

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Facebook or Twitter or whatever, and
you don't see the difficulties. So you

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can sometimes look at that and think, well, why is everyone so happy

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and I'm not. And so in
Japan it's more the more highly valued aspiration

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is I think maybe it's a slightly
more nuanced view of well being, maybe

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more realistic view as well, and
it just invites you to find meaning and

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fulfillment in not just the highs but
also the loads and also the humdrum moments

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in life, and that way you're
every day it becomes more alive with meaning.

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And I was interesting. I was
listening to your conversation with Hope Muller

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and she was talking about this thing
about mirroring people's behavior to fit in,

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and that resonated with me because I
mean, I definitely did that when I

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was younger. I just sort of
and I really kind of regret it.

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And I think, you know,
this sort of knowledge of the ikey guy

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construct could be really useful for the
children, because you know, there's so

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much peer pressure on them now and
with the addition of this sort of this

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bigger pressure of social media and what
they see there, and I think if

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you could, the more you can
encourage children to connect with their in advice

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and what they really want to do
and so they pursue activis is that kind

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of alignment with their true nature.
That's got to be a beneficial thing.

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Beautiful, absolutely beautiful, And I
completely agree with that, and I'm working

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on a project just to that aim. By the way, Justin, so

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you're you're mirroring me, whether you
know it or not. But let's grab

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our first break. I'm your host, Elist Cortez. We went on the

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air with Justin Barnes, who has
produced more than seventeen non fiction books for

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a variety of leading publishers. Is
the author of Eka Guy, Discover Your

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Reason for Being. He joined today
from Hastings, England. We've been talking

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about what each guy actually is and
why it's important, its benefits. After

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the break, we're going to talk
about those aspects and break it down.

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Stay with us, We'll be right
back. Elis Cortez is a speaker and

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engagement and development catalyst. She designs
and delivers professional development, leadership and engagement

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workshops and can bring her expertise to
your organization. She will help ignite meaningful

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development within your workforce that will increase
employee engagement, performance and retention. To

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learn more or to invite Elise to
speak to your organization, please visit her

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00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:07.880
at www dot Elise Cortez dot com. She would welcome the opportunity to help

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get your employees working on Purpose.
This is Working on Purpose with Elise Cortez.

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To reach our program today, send
an email to Elise ali Se at

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Elise Cortez dot com. Now back
to Working on Purpose. Thanks for staying

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with us, and welcome back to
Working on Purpose if you're just joining us.

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My guest is Justin Barnes, the
author of Eca Guy, Discover Your

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Reason for Being and also the author
of seventy other nonfiction books. For that

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he's done for a variety of leading
publishers. After belatedly escaping the hustle of

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London life, he now pursues his
own Eca Guy from a fifteenth century house

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in Hastings Oldtown on the south coast
of England. I'm your host, Elise

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Cortez. So just in this next
bit here, I want to talk about

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the aspects they break them down for
our listeners, and I love there's this.

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This is the fun thing that really
there's so many pieces of your book

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that just spoke to me. In
fact, I have to tell you,

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you know, you've publicly embarrassed me
Justin, by the way, because I

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read your I read your book on
the plane when I was coming back from

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from a trip, and of course
you know I'm gesturing mightily and saying,

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yes, that's so great. Yes, I agree, people are like,

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what is going on with a woman
over there in three b Okay, but

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you have a sentence that that that's
so resonated with why my listeners respond to

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when I'm out speaking about the need
to cultivate meaning, passion, inspiration and

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purpose, I really fully live their
one precious life. And that sentence comes

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in the form of this question,
are you leading a comfortable life but feel

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there is something missing? Ah?
That is, there's so much there.

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So when I and I can tell
you that people are on the edge of

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their seats sometimes when they get present
to that for themselves. What's behind that

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question for you? I think comfort
sort of eyes a static state, yes,

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suddenly, and I think people were
not really good at that. People

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need to always we're moving forward.
There's needs to be some change and grow

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I'm actually I'm not very good.
We've change, but I still I still

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gradually have to you know, I
don't like dramatic changes, but we all

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have to move, you know,
things have to move. But we have

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to see a future, don't we. And actually I was in the book

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I think I quote there was a
Japanese psychiatrist called Meeko Kama, and she

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identified seven key needs associate with kick
Guy, and one of them was changing

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growth. So I think that's part
of it. And I also come for

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also probably links into the material comfort
and and and sometimes you know, just

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by necessity we achieve that by following
a life that doesn't really align with what

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we want to do. You know
a lot of people have jobs that you

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know might might not be what they
really want to do, but it makes

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the money that allows them to look
after their family, to do the thing

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other things that they want. And
if you do that for your whole career,

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that there is there could be a
bit of a danger in that because

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over time, you know, that
does leave a bit of a void.

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So I think maybe maybe that's it. So with thee with Ikey Guy,

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it does gives you a chance to
look at the different aspects of what you

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love, what the world needs,
what you can be payful, and the

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things that sort of feed your I
don't know, you you your enjoyment of

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life, your full sense of fulfillments
in life, and actually try and explore

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how you can maybe get more of
that in your life. It doesn't have

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to necessarily be dramatic. I like
I say, I'm not one for dramatic

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changes is a gradual thing here and
there. But some people, you know,

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you could you much think, right, no, I'm going to change.

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I'm going to go down that way, change my career completely. So

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yeah, that's where it getting comfortably. What about for you? Well,

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So a couple of things on that
one. I had a gentleman named Lance

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Secreton on my show sometime back.
He's really known for his leadership work across

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the globe, and he says comfort
is not our friend. And then I

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would add in and some of the
typics from from Love with Therapy, which

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where Victor Frankel really says he says, the tension between who we are today

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and who we're striving to become is
essential for a well being. So back

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to your point about that static nature, when when that's when that's present,

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we're missing that that essential tension that
really helps, really contributes to our sense

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of well being, and people need
that, they need it definitely. Yeah,

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So there's a and then speaking of
that, and what's what I there's

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just so many great things that you've
you've presence in your book and it's it's

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an easy read, which is just
fantastic to get your your head around the

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whole thing in a sitting. But
you've got in there an anteedote and about

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a man who survived a near fatal
elephant attack and it inspired him to follow

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his egy guy, and you have
got something in there. Don't wait for

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an elephant. He says that I
think it was brilliant. I think it's

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it's in fact, I think you
can look at online as a tex talk

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that this guy's he's an Indian chap. We'll probably missing arounds. His name

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is Ganghut and men On and this
he was quite a good example of comfort

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actually because he fell into a career
in advertising, you know, a well

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paid career, and he did it
for twenty twenty eight years, very successful.

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But then he had this, you
know, he basically survived an elephant

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attack, and you know, apparently
elephants attack you normally die. So he

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just made it made him rethink the
whole you know, what am I doing

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what I really want to do?
And he was aged, I think he

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was in his fifties early fifties,
and then he just he went off and

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decided to explore a different path,
and he's now got into travel writing and

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travel photography and he finds that,
you know, feeds his soul more than

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what he was doing before. I
mean, I suppose, you know,

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again, you could argue that he
in the life before that given him a

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bit more light leeway to do that
because I suspect, you well, good

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money from doing advertising. But but
yeah, his point was you shouldn't wait

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for the elephant before he actually decided
to do, you know, decided to

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do what the things that you should
be doing of your life. And another

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thing that came up in the research
was that you need to it's sort of

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importance of accepting your own mortality.
I mean, in our culture, we

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don't really talk about death until it
impacts us directly, you know, where

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the family member or ourselves we're coming
to the end of our lives. And

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there was a there was a fantastic
book by someone called Bronnie Ware and she

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was a palliative nurse, so she
was dealing with people in hospice who were

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dying and she wrote this best selling
book that it was Lessons of the Dying

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basically, and one of the great
lessons she loved and people talking to them

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was that the acceptance that all we
are going to die helps us to live

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more meaningfully now. And I thought
that was quite such an interesting way of

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looking at it. I think it's
very true, very true. Yeah,

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I do too, justin in fact, to that end, just briefly,

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I last year I had a woman
who was an undertaker reach out to me

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to be on my radio show,
and for the longest time months I just

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let that request go. I'm like, why would I want to talk with

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an undertaker? I'm about passion and
purpose. This doesn't make sense. And

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then I finally figured it out.
The reason purpose works in our life is

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because we have a limited number of
days on the planet. So it gives

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us a sense of urgency and to
fulfill and live fully every day. And

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so yeah, and you know,
I'm you and I spoke earlier. But

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I'm completely convinced that my mother would
have lasted longer than her seventy three years

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had she had her own been too
in tune with her own sense a guy,

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she didn't have something that she was
really living for. Yeah, you

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do you need something, don't you? I mean, my two parents have

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both retired and they they're quite good. They keep they have lots of interests

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and things. I think it helps
a lot. I mean, my dad's

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one of the world's great a fuss. It's almost to a comical degree.

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I remember one time I was walking
along a sidewalker a pavement and he was

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saying, isn't this pavement laid beautifully? And I was like, I think

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it's kind of ridiculous because it's like
this is just something you take for grinds.

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But I thought it's quite nice to
have that sort of approach. I

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have to appreciate all the different things
that go into your life. I thought

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that's quite a good attitude. Actually
it may be love. I do too,

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and I and I agree, You've
got something in the book about really

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taking pleasure in every detail to help
us live each day to the fullest and

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use all of our senses, even
in daily routines like walking down the sidewalk

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while you're talking about and that when
we do so, that we really can

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get access to bringing previously monotonous occurrences
alive with meaning. I completely agree with

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that, Justin, and I'm guilty
as charged for that, and I'm happy

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to be guilty of that. My
friends and clients say, you know,

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how can you enjoy so you know, really everything is really that great for

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you? And I'm like, yeah, I'm vertical, my eyes are open,

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my heart's beating. Life's pretty good. Yeah, it's a good attitude.

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I think, I think, and
I think that you've got you might

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have unconsciously already got icky guy.
I think they do. I've got there.

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But no, I think that's right. And I think. You know,

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we were talking earlier about how you
know, your job might not necessarily

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be exactly what you want to do, but but if you can sort of

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work out the reason for it,
so you know, you know, you

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come home at night and your little
your little child gives you a heart and

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says they love you, you know, then that will make it kind of

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all makes sense. So when you're
doing a repetitive job that's not and you're

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dealing with a horrible boss or something, you can kind of think, okay,

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well no, but this is there's
a reason behind this. Doesn't mean

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I have to do it for everyone. I could try and look to do

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something else, but it allows you
to kind of you know, get some

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get some enjoyment out of it.
And the other thing that sort of springs

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to mind. Is the this the
Japanese tea ceremony, which I sort of

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mentioned I think in Passing in the
book, and the idea of that is

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that it's a very ritualistic ceremony.
They take it and the people who go

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00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:52.000
to the sort of really encouraged to
be very present in the moment. And

405
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there's this phrase called which means one
time, one encounter. So this conversation

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we are haveing now, we can
have another one in a week in a

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week's time, but it would not
be exactly the same. So let's let's

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00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:06.519
really focus in on what we're what
we're talking about, especially if you're face

409
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:08.480
to face with someone you know,
really make the most of those moments,

410
00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:11.000
but not just think, oh,
well, you know, it's just another

411
00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:15.200
it's another day. Every day.
Every day is different. So people have

412
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:18.079
that attitude, you know, life
is happening now. I think that that

413
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:23.440
that helps you to live with more
purpose and more intent. So yeah,

414
00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:29.000
another little story in the book was
which when I was when I was writing,

415
00:27:29.079 --> 00:27:30.359
I was sort of thinking, well, I was looking for examples of

416
00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:33.960
you know, each guy, and
there was I read about this this this

417
00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:41.359
novelist and a Norwegian novelist whose name
now escapes me, but he he wrote

418
00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:47.759
very autobiographical novels basically, and this
latest one was about was kind of based

419
00:27:47.799 --> 00:27:52.119
on his own experience with his wife
after having their fourth child. She she

420
00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:56.400
had a mental breakdown and their marriage
was sort of dissolving and everything was going

421
00:27:56.440 --> 00:28:02.839
horribly wrong. And one day he
was sort of he was changing a nappy

422
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:07.359
if his young baby, and he
sort of felt the weight of the nappy

423
00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:11.400
and just that sort of that it
seems a very very mundane exercise, you

424
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:14.680
know, changing your nappy, but
just that he just thought, well,

425
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:18.559
okay, even though things are going
horribly wrong, you know, my baby's

426
00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:22.240
okay, that the bodily functions are
fine. You know, I'm doing my

427
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:26.039
job as a dad. I'm looking
after my child, so I don't know,

428
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:29.079
just little things like that. It's
a different way of looking at very,

429
00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:33.839
as you say, mundane tasks and
hopefully giving you a sense of you

430
00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:37.200
know, a sense of purpose and
feeling, you know, fulfillment, even

431
00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:41.519
when it's going to be something that's
quite small. Really, absolutely, and

432
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:44.759
that story is in your book.
It's delightful. It's very delightful, and

433
00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:49.599
I completely resonate with it. Well, let's talk about longevity justin One of

434
00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:53.960
the things that I've read about is
that longevity is associated with living. What's

435
00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:56.599
the rate way to say, living
the nicky gay, discovering or being in

436
00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:00.759
your inky go? What's the right
way pursuing Ikey Guy? I don't really

437
00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:03.759
know. I've I've seen it written
in lots of different ways by different rioters.

438
00:29:04.039 --> 00:29:08.359
I think I think living with the
guy. Yeah, maybe I think

439
00:29:08.599 --> 00:29:11.039
I think of pursuing it. I
don't know why. I think I feel

440
00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:15.680
like pursuing purpose maybe, but yeah, no, there is there is a

441
00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:22.200
correlation between Ikey Guy and longevity.
And one of the studies that I read

442
00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:25.759
in research of the but I don't
think it actually made it into the book.

443
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:29.279
In the embers, they did this
matter. A university in Japan did

444
00:29:29.319 --> 00:29:32.559
this huge study of fifty five thousand
people, you know, so it's a

445
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:37.559
really big study of people age between
fourteen seventy nine, and they asked them

446
00:29:37.720 --> 00:29:41.200
do you have Ikey Guy in your
life? Alongside other questions about health and

447
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:45.640
diet and se But those who answered
no, they didn't were more likely to

448
00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:48.640
be unemployed, have poorer physical and
mental health, and they had a greater

449
00:29:48.759 --> 00:29:53.119
chance of suffering cardiovascular disease. So
and the conclusion of this study was that

450
00:29:55.279 --> 00:29:59.400
they weren't exactly how ikey guy links
to health, good health and longevity,

451
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:03.200
and they needed more investigations to that, but there did seem to be a

452
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:06.200
link, and they conclude one of
them. I remember that one of the

453
00:30:06.279 --> 00:30:10.079
quotes was they conclude that if you
find joy in the small things, you

454
00:30:10.200 --> 00:30:12.920
have the frame of mind to build
a happy and active life. So yeah,

455
00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:17.640
that's that's there's that. And we
we're talking before the show about the

456
00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:23.640
Okinawa, which is this archipelago in
Japan. It's as a group of small

457
00:30:23.720 --> 00:30:26.920
islands and it's one of the so
called blue zones, and I think there's

458
00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:32.480
about five in the world where people
they have a disproportionate number of people who

459
00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:34.880
lived to the over the age of
a hundred and they're still living active and

460
00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:40.799
purposeful lives. I mean. Now, there were some amazing stories there.

461
00:30:40.839 --> 00:30:45.039
You know. There was a hundred
old fisherman who still three times a week

462
00:30:45.079 --> 00:30:48.920
went out and caught fish for his
family. There was a karate master who's

463
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:52.680
one hundred and two and he were
still doing karate, you know, extraordinary

464
00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:57.640
stuff. So again, there's been
quite a lot of research into the okin

465
00:30:57.839 --> 00:31:02.440
Lands and there's there's other fact that
feed into their longevity. Their diet.

466
00:31:02.519 --> 00:31:06.240
They have a plant based diet.
They have this practice of only eating until

467
00:31:06.279 --> 00:31:08.119
they're eighty percent four, which sounds
very good idea, which I've never managed

468
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:12.039
to do. They have a sort
of sense of moderation in terms of the

469
00:31:12.079 --> 00:31:15.400
way they actually exercise, but no
light exercise, physical active is even more.

470
00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:19.119
It's more about mobility than going to
the gym. And also there's a

471
00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:26.400
really strong cheerful community spirit there as
well. So that alongside this kind of

472
00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:30.160
this the ikey guy, there this
inner drive to make the most of each

473
00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:36.960
day that seems to contribute to their
to their longevity. And we were talking

474
00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:41.079
about your your chat with Peter Garrett
recently because he was about the dangers of

475
00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:45.960
retirement and really interesting the Okinawa they
don't even have a word for retirement in

476
00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:51.440
the local dialect, so that sort
of tell that tells you something. Everyone

477
00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:53.359
there they just keep going, you've
got to do something, even if it's

478
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:56.119
not for money, you have to
do something to give you a life purpose.

479
00:31:56.240 --> 00:32:00.920
So yeah, so that they're so
there is a link, but no

480
00:32:00.000 --> 00:32:04.759
one quite knows what it is.
Yeah, I like to think of it

481
00:32:04.839 --> 00:32:07.160
as that there's back to what you
said before. The reason for being right

482
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:10.799
there is if you've got something where
you can be of service to others,

483
00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:15.720
whatever that is. That is a
very compelling reason for being back to the

484
00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:19.160
idea of retirement. And it was
it was Paul Garrett that I interviewed and

485
00:32:19.720 --> 00:32:22.920
we were talking about the hazards of
requirement. So I completely concur with that

486
00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:28.119
justin it's there's so much we could
say about that, you think. So

487
00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:30.880
on the community side, that goes
two ways as well. Another thing that's

488
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:36.319
interesting about ok, I thought it
was amazing. When you're born there you

489
00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:39.640
are, they have this thing called
a MOI system and basically you are assigned

490
00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:43.680
a little club of friends from the
day you were born and those people will

491
00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:46.559
stay with you throughout your life.
So you know, so that I guess

492
00:32:46.599 --> 00:32:50.720
that gives the people who are looking
after your sense of purpose and also yourself.

493
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:53.160
You know, something that that's a
communal element is quite important as well.

494
00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:57.119
It must help your sens of well
being when you've just got you've got

495
00:32:57.200 --> 00:33:01.079
someone on your side. Yeah,
so many beautiful concepts you've discovered and put

496
00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:05.400
in your book. Let's grab our
last break. You're justin if we can.

497
00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:07.240
I'm Elise Cortez, your host.
We've been on the air with Justin

498
00:33:07.319 --> 00:33:10.759
Barnes, who has produced more than
seventy non fishing books for a variety of

499
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:15.720
leading publishers. He's the author of
ECA Guy, Discover Your Reason for Being.

500
00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:19.079
He joins it today from Hastings,
England. After the break, we're

501
00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:21.799
going to talk about seeking our ECA
Guy. Stay with us. We'll be

502
00:33:21.920 --> 00:33:45.559
right back. Alice Cortez is a
speaker and engagement and development catalyst. She

503
00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:52.519
designs and delivers professional development, leadership
and engagement workshops and can bring her expertise

504
00:33:52.599 --> 00:33:57.319
to your organization. She will help
ignite meaningful development within your workforce that will

505
00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:01.400
increase employee engagement, performance and attention. To learn more or to invite Elise

506
00:34:01.480 --> 00:34:07.720
to speak to your organization, please
visit her at www dot Elise Cortez dot

507
00:34:07.799 --> 00:34:12.760
com. She would welcome the opportunity
to help get your employees working on purpose.

508
00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:22.920
This is working on Purpose with Elise
Cortez. To reach our program today,

509
00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:30.000
send an email to Elise ali Se
at Elise Cortez dot com now back

510
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:34.519
to working on Purpose. Thanks for
staying with us, and welcome back to

511
00:34:34.599 --> 00:34:37.880
working on Purpose if you're just tuning
in. My guest is Justin Barnes,

512
00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:42.360
the author of Eca Guy, Discover
Your Reason for Being and also another seventy

513
00:34:42.440 --> 00:34:46.119
other nonfiction books that he's done for
a variety of leading publishers. After belatedly

514
00:34:46.239 --> 00:34:50.480
escaping the hustle of London life,
he now pursues his Aco Guy from a

515
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:53.840
fifteenth century house in Hastings Oldtown on
the south coast of England. I'm your

516
00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:58.320
host, Elise Cortez. I definitely
have to come visit that. I'm telling

517
00:34:58.360 --> 00:35:01.559
you, Justin. I'm on my
way. It's nice. It's been a

518
00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:05.800
big change. I bet, I
bet, it's wonderful. And I have

519
00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:08.400
to tell you I actually have descended
on some of my guests that I've had

520
00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:12.639
on the show from given parts of
the world, so it really could happen.

521
00:35:12.679 --> 00:35:16.360
I could be on your doorstep.
Well we've got on Airbnb next door

522
00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:21.280
as well, so there's a place
of okay, wonderful wonderful tea with you.

523
00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:23.480
Okay, Well, let's let's start
with this if we can. And

524
00:35:23.679 --> 00:35:28.079
you know, so much of the
world that I focus on justin is about

525
00:35:28.119 --> 00:35:31.920
the world of work because it comprises
forty percent of our lives. And therefore

526
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:35.960
if we get that right and well, then a cascades to the rest of

527
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:37.280
our lives. But you say in
your book, and I do agree,

528
00:35:37.719 --> 00:35:42.039
that work isn't everything, and that
you say the key is who our work

529
00:35:42.119 --> 00:35:45.679
to represent just one among several Eco
guy in a rich tapestry that gives meaning

530
00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:50.199
to your life. I love that
you say more about that. Well,

531
00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:52.800
I think it's there's different aspects that
I mean. I think that's when I

532
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:57.039
worked in an office and I worked
for a company, and I thought,

533
00:35:57.079 --> 00:36:00.119
you know, I was I was, I was the executive editor, was

534
00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:04.599
seeing these big books and things,
and event after five or six years sort

535
00:36:04.599 --> 00:36:07.880
of I left and went free lance. But I thought, oh, you

536
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:10.199
know, you sort of think you're
very they will never survive without me,

537
00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:15.000
you know, you get so invested
in But actually know that things, things

538
00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:21.199
do move on, and I do
think we can take you know, at

539
00:36:21.199 --> 00:36:23.800
the time, it seems so important
everything and I've always been one of those

540
00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:28.559
people that wants to do my best
and everything I do. But but you

541
00:36:28.639 --> 00:36:34.559
do there's more to life than that, and I also recently I moved the

542
00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:37.840
last three years, I moved from
London to Hastings and one of the reasons

543
00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:42.400
was in London it's you know,
it's the capital city of England, and

544
00:36:43.719 --> 00:36:46.320
you know, it's very busy,
it's expensive life there and coming down here

545
00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:49.920
give gave me the chance I could
do the same work, but I have

546
00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:53.559
a bit more disposal income, a
bit more time to do other things as

547
00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:59.360
well. And also it's a different
life. It's much more smaller community down

548
00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:02.599
here, so I feel like,
you know, I've got more time to

549
00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:06.920
try and do other things. And
I'm not not just be focused on rising.

550
00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:08.800
You know, nowadays, my my
my my day to day life is

551
00:37:09.400 --> 00:37:13.079
at home, so on my own
so I do need to do other things

552
00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:16.800
where I'm sort of meeting other people
and and yeah, and I'm sort of

553
00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:21.079
right, I'm my own boss.
It's quite nice to just do things where

554
00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:24.119
I'm just in the I'm just part
of a team of people doing enjoying.

555
00:37:24.320 --> 00:37:27.800
I don't know, an activity like
I like suse and dancing. I do

556
00:37:27.880 --> 00:37:30.880
suse and dancing or whatever, you
know, or we we have we have

557
00:37:30.960 --> 00:37:37.199
a homeless charity down here over winter
and they provide an overnight place to stay

558
00:37:37.280 --> 00:37:39.880
for over three months in the coldest
part of the year, and I go

559
00:37:39.960 --> 00:37:44.320
and do the breakfast down there once
a week, and little things like that,

560
00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:49.000
those things, can you know,
they're quite They give me enjoyment,

561
00:37:49.199 --> 00:37:51.960
you know. So so I think
that that's the sort of point I'm trying

562
00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:57.920
to get across, slightly clumsily.
It's beautiful. Well, you know,

563
00:37:58.039 --> 00:38:00.639
I have to ask you this,
and it became as I'm going to ask

564
00:38:00.679 --> 00:38:04.719
you, I'll do the same,
but I'll reciprocate. But what is your

565
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:08.679
echy guy, justin, and how
are you pursuing it? I think,

566
00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:15.880
yeah, I think for me,
it's it's about There was a quite great

567
00:38:15.960 --> 00:38:19.679
quote in the book from another author
I'd recommend on nicky guy called Ken Mogi,

568
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:23.159
and he talks about the spectrum of
small things. So when I was

569
00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:27.360
younger and I wanted to be a
sportsmanning, I wanted to be the best.

570
00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:30.440
I was a snooker player, which
is a bit like your billiards are,

571
00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:32.599
Paul Paul, and I wanted to
be the best player in the world

572
00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:37.400
at that. But that's if you
have these sort of goals that are so

573
00:38:37.719 --> 00:38:40.639
so big and distant. You know, you've got to you need to enjoy

574
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:45.119
the process of getting there. And
I think my problem was because I'm so

575
00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:47.400
stressed about you know, when you're
blowing compositive sports, you know you want

576
00:38:47.400 --> 00:38:52.280
to you need to win, et
cetera. And I wasn't enjoying the process

577
00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:54.679
of actually doing the thing. I
really I enjoyed when I first started doing

578
00:38:54.800 --> 00:38:58.760
that. That playing the game.
I love playing the game, and you

579
00:38:58.840 --> 00:39:01.840
need to you need to main pain
that. But yeah, like I said,

580
00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:05.679
it's it's it's it's smaller things.
And you know, I still I'm

581
00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:07.840
still ambitious with work I love doing. I mean, writing a book like

582
00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:12.719
ekey guys sort of fits in really
well, because you know, we're talking

583
00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:15.119
about what you love, what the
world needs, what you can be paid

584
00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:16.760
for, what you're good at.
Well, I'm supposed to be quite good

585
00:39:16.760 --> 00:39:21.599
at writing. I can be paid
for it. And I love learning about

586
00:39:21.639 --> 00:39:24.280
new new things. And also I
think, you know, it's something that

587
00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:29.199
I genuinely think this this concept could
help people. So that for me is

588
00:39:29.239 --> 00:39:32.440
a really good example of work that
that fits in just to what I can

589
00:39:32.519 --> 00:39:36.239
do. Not all my work is
like that. I mean I do copyrights

590
00:39:36.239 --> 00:39:38.559
as well, which I also enjoy. But so you need to sort of

591
00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:42.519
I see, it's like a sort
of constellation of things. It's not just

592
00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:45.880
one if you have one object,
if you're depending on one thing, it's

593
00:39:45.880 --> 00:39:49.039
a bit like depending on you know, when you know, when you're in

594
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:52.159
a relationship, if that goes if
that goes wrong, or you're dependent on

595
00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:55.679
you need to have some backup.
You need to have other things they're going

596
00:39:55.760 --> 00:40:00.360
on in your life to help you, particularly in adversity. I think,

597
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:06.280
hmm, yeah, and we're gonna
after I'll share what I came up with

598
00:40:06.400 --> 00:40:07.679
for my ECA guy here. I
actually did this, by the way,

599
00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:12.800
Justin, I have a program that
I Yeah, I've got a program that

600
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:15.400
I that I conduct. It's called
Bially Inspired Living and Leading from Purpose.

601
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:20.840
And the last time we got together, we did this exercise that I'm going

602
00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:23.239
to we're going to queue up here
for our listeners. And so I did

603
00:40:23.320 --> 00:40:25.800
come up with my ECA guy and
this is what I came up with here

604
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:30.519
in terms of a statement. So
this is it for me, my ECA

605
00:40:30.639 --> 00:40:35.599
guy that I'm pursuing, Justin is
awakening people to discover their passion and purpose

606
00:40:35.920 --> 00:40:39.159
and inspire them to pursue them mightily
to make a contribution that betters the world

607
00:40:39.239 --> 00:40:44.440
and is worthy of their one precious
life. That's good. It isn't that

608
00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:50.159
yummy? That's good sense of that
vendaging, It totally is. And I

609
00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:52.880
do that through speaking. I do
it through the radio show. I do

610
00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:54.639
it through the programs that I deliver, I do it through my coaching.

611
00:40:55.239 --> 00:40:59.559
It's it's it's an amazing way to
get to live. I'd actually do it

612
00:40:59.599 --> 00:41:00.679
all over the place. I do
in the grocery store when I'm talking to

613
00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:06.920
people. Nobody is saved justin And
do you think as well. You know,

614
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:08.679
we talked a little bit about these
having these little you know, your

615
00:41:08.719 --> 00:41:13.320
friends say about how you have you're
sort of enthusiastic about a lot of things.

616
00:41:13.639 --> 00:41:15.840
I mean, for me, you
know, living down here where I

617
00:41:15.920 --> 00:41:17.119
live now, we have beautiful you
know, on the coast, you have

618
00:41:17.199 --> 00:41:22.159
beautiful big skies. And if I'm
having a bit of a bad day or

619
00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:24.199
just honestly, I'm can just go
and walk down to the to the sea

620
00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:28.440
front and just look at the sky
and see the clouds, the movement of

621
00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:30.320
the clouds. I think if you
have that attitude of just seeing, you

622
00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:34.199
know, seeing this little wonder in
the world. I think that can help

623
00:41:34.239 --> 00:41:38.519
you thought about you agree. I
completely agree. That's how I walk through

624
00:41:38.559 --> 00:41:42.840
the world. And my daughter,
who's sixteen, has finally got into a

625
00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:45.960
place where she's just simply accepted that's
the way it's going to be, mum.

626
00:41:45.000 --> 00:41:47.679
As I always going to have rose
colored glasses, She's always going to

627
00:41:47.719 --> 00:41:54.280
see a rainbow everywhere she goes.
It's okay, yeah, well, let's

628
00:41:54.440 --> 00:41:58.639
let's serve this up here for our
listeners. This is just where now we're

629
00:41:58.639 --> 00:42:00.760
getting really to the yummy part of
the whole thing. Not that the whole

630
00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:06.679
thing that's conversation hasn't already been delightful. But you were in your chapter of

631
00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:10.920
Finding your Eco Guy you talk about
this really great concept called soul storming,

632
00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:15.000
which I think is just fantastic.
And as I said, I did the

633
00:42:15.039 --> 00:42:20.400
exercise. So you suggest we make
four lists. One list is what we

634
00:42:20.559 --> 00:42:22.519
love, another one is what can
we be paid for, another one is

635
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:27.679
what we're good at, and finally
what the world needs and we're looking for.

636
00:42:28.400 --> 00:42:32.159
As you say, a cross pollination
between those lists. Say more about

637
00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:37.239
how this process works to distill it
down. Well, So soul storming,

638
00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:37.800
I was thinking about it, I
think, well, you know, it's

639
00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:40.800
a bit more than brainstorm, isn't
it. It's not just like it's not

640
00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:44.480
just doing the logical things. There's
things that we're quite a rat we know

641
00:42:44.719 --> 00:42:46.880
we're we're not a rational beings totally. There's things that just you know,

642
00:42:47.400 --> 00:42:52.039
really appeal to us on a on
a visceral level. So the idea is,

643
00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:54.239
you know, you write down your
four lists and there's you know,

644
00:42:54.280 --> 00:42:58.519
there's no wrong answers. You can
and you can sort of you make your

645
00:42:58.559 --> 00:43:01.960
voice and you can see where there's
intersections across pollination. So you might have

646
00:43:02.079 --> 00:43:06.920
something that falls between what the world
needs and what you love, so that

647
00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:12.199
kind of links into your mission.
Or you might have something that that's between

648
00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:15.000
what you can be paid for and
what you're good at. So that is

649
00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:19.199
something you potentially could be a professional
for you. But you know, like

650
00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:22.199
I said, I think it's quite
you'll you'll find one and you might find,

651
00:43:22.199 --> 00:43:23.719
if you're lucky, one or two
things that fit all for criteria.

652
00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:28.119
And that's kind of know the ikey
guy by the by the definition of the

653
00:43:28.199 --> 00:43:30.480
diagram. But I think there's a
multiplicity of it, you know, I

654
00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:32.679
call it sort of a bank of
Ikey Guy. There's all these sort of

655
00:43:32.679 --> 00:43:37.840
supportive Ikey guy knocking about things that
make your day to day life better.

656
00:43:38.280 --> 00:43:43.880
You know. A really, here's
a really random one. Since I did

657
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:46.440
the book, We're great treat tea
drinkers in Britain. You know, I

658
00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:50.800
like my coffee, but I'm also
a tea drinker. And but most people

659
00:43:50.840 --> 00:43:53.039
have a tea with a tea bag. But since I read about this sort

660
00:43:53.079 --> 00:43:54.960
of Japanese tea same, I thought, no, I'm going to go back

661
00:43:55.000 --> 00:43:58.639
to having tea leaves. Make it
in a pop brew. It properly takes

662
00:43:58.679 --> 00:44:00.800
five minutes, and I do that
now, especially because I work at home.

663
00:44:00.840 --> 00:44:04.280
It's quite a good way of just
making me stop in the day,

664
00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:07.000
just stop for a minute and you
know, reflect a little bit. And

665
00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:10.840
you know sometimes when you're very busy, just makes you just settle down a

666
00:44:10.920 --> 00:44:15.639
little bit and think about what you're
doing. But yeah, so there are

667
00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:19.880
elements of like there's some really profound
things, like the things you the one

668
00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:22.320
you just talked about. This that's
a really big, big thing. But

669
00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:25.320
there's also there is that the other
aspect of you know, just needing to

670
00:44:25.400 --> 00:44:29.320
sit in the park and reflect for
ten minutes every now and then, just

671
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:31.599
to you know. Those things are
also important to us. So I think

672
00:44:31.599 --> 00:44:36.039
they also add your purpose because it
gives you that chance to sort of reflect,

673
00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:40.760
think creatively, and sort of reinvigorate
yourself for for other activities. So

674
00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:45.320
yeah, I can completely agree with
that. It's sort of it's something along

675
00:44:45.320 --> 00:44:49.599
the lines of meditation as well.
And then the other thing that you and

676
00:44:49.639 --> 00:44:51.880
I talked about, which I think
is really important for us to share with

677
00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:55.159
our listeners, is that when we
when we all make these lists, that

678
00:44:55.199 --> 00:45:00.719
they're not fixed. That we should
go back and revisit in lee and see

679
00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:04.480
if our goals have changed or our
vision for our lives have changed. I

680
00:45:04.519 --> 00:45:07.599
think that's such an important point that
you mentioned. Yeah, I think so,

681
00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:13.119
because we do change. I mean, I think Hope when I was

682
00:45:13.159 --> 00:45:16.360
listened she was she was talking about
when she she was in a meeting with

683
00:45:16.360 --> 00:45:21.519
all these topics eecutives, how do
I get here? And sometimes we all

684
00:45:21.599 --> 00:45:24.079
think that's like, you know,
my life's going completely. Although you can

685
00:45:24.159 --> 00:45:27.679
have a sense of purpose, you
should you can. The nicely about it

686
00:45:27.800 --> 00:45:30.559
is that it can lead you towards
light minded people. But then it might

687
00:45:30.679 --> 00:45:34.880
lead you in a different direction.
So that's no, there's no problem in

688
00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:39.079
that. There's a there's a really
interesting thing again by this psychiatrist may Echo

689
00:45:39.199 --> 00:45:45.639
Kmir and she was talking about finding
value in life depends less on whether every

690
00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:51.079
ambition is realized and whether you purposely
take the direction that reflects your true nature.

691
00:45:51.559 --> 00:45:53.400
And so you know, you might
make connections with light minded people,

692
00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:58.039
but then your life might go after
a sort of unexpected but sort of delightful

693
00:45:58.119 --> 00:46:01.199
tangent. So I think that that
there's a sort of flexibility. It's not

694
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:05.639
just like you know, you pursue
a purpose to the you know, if

695
00:46:05.679 --> 00:46:07.840
you set ten years ago, what
if you change, it's perfectly your right

696
00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:13.119
to change your change your route if
that if that's what you want, absolutely

697
00:46:13.280 --> 00:46:17.559
absolutely as life terms of additional things
to you that you need to embrace or

698
00:46:17.599 --> 00:46:22.480
address, sometimes those those big whoppers
that we encounter in life can help us

699
00:46:22.519 --> 00:46:27.119
discover a tremendous sense of purpose or
a new equy guy to pursue. So

700
00:46:27.480 --> 00:46:32.440
I completely agree the ongoing iteration of
who we can becomes beautiful. Yeah,

701
00:46:34.000 --> 00:46:37.000
I agree. Well we're getting close
to the end here, justin and I

702
00:46:37.119 --> 00:46:44.360
know you mentioned that you're you're just
finishing up a book called See Sue about

703
00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:45.440
the concept of s suit. Say
a little bit, just a little bit

704
00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:49.559
about that, and then we'll need
to close. Yeah, sure, see

705
00:46:49.639 --> 00:46:52.480
Sue. Yes, it's a things
concept, and it's it's kind of it's

706
00:46:52.559 --> 00:47:00.199
to do with particularly useful. It's
about finding you of hidden reserves beyond what

707
00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:06.400
you think you can do, particularly
in times of adversity. And Finland's is

708
00:47:06.519 --> 00:47:09.119
particularly associated is their concept. But
I mean, I think it's within all

709
00:47:09.159 --> 00:47:12.119
of us. You know that you
probably always had times in your life you

710
00:47:12.159 --> 00:47:15.199
think I could never if you thought
about it beforehand, I could never recope

711
00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:19.000
with the situation. But somehow you
find some mental or physical reserves. The

712
00:47:19.119 --> 00:47:23.079
idea of seizes you actually cultivate that
so you become more resilient, You're able

713
00:47:23.119 --> 00:47:28.039
to go beyond your perceived limits in
times of adversity, and also you sort

714
00:47:28.079 --> 00:47:31.679
of develop a sort of problem solving
agile action mindset. And actually, really

715
00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:37.719
one of the experts I read on
this subject sort of talk was compared to

716
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:39.840
Ikey Guy, and his idea was
that, well, if Ikey Guy's about

717
00:47:39.880 --> 00:47:44.800
purpose, well Seisue is taking that
purpose and actually acting upon it, so

718
00:47:44.920 --> 00:47:47.559
it's all his idea is it actually
takes it one step further. So,

719
00:47:49.800 --> 00:47:52.599
yeah, it's an interest, it's
an interesting one. Yeah, I'll be

720
00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:55.679
happy to talk to you about that. I was just going to say,

721
00:47:55.760 --> 00:47:59.559
you know what this means. Don't
you just let me do you have to

722
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:02.519
back on your undscape with me over
and Mike and talk about that book in

723
00:48:02.599 --> 00:48:06.440
the future. So I am going
to come find you in fact, al

724
00:48:07.639 --> 00:48:12.000
we'll schedule that. Well, so
we're here, we're at the end of

725
00:48:12.199 --> 00:48:15.639
the program already, justin, is
there anything you'd like to leave the listeners

726
00:48:15.719 --> 00:48:20.199
with today? Because I know as
you asked this question always, so I

727
00:48:20.239 --> 00:48:22.000
did have a little think and there
was there's just a quote from the book

728
00:48:22.000 --> 00:48:28.360
which which was from a nineteen sixty
nine book called ningan nor ikey Guy,

729
00:48:28.719 --> 00:48:31.840
which means the meaningful Life, and
it was written by one of the founders

730
00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:38.280
of the Japanese Buddhist a Buddhist organization
and anyway, he said that a meaningful

731
00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:43.719
life is one lived with a sense
of fulfillment. A person who enjoys numerous

732
00:48:43.760 --> 00:48:46.599
contacts with others, is constantly active
and always looks forward to something, is

733
00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:52.480
mentally and physically vigorous, such vitality
which makes life worthwhile, is not a

734
00:48:52.599 --> 00:48:55.079
shadow. It's not shallow pleasure confined
to the level of consciousness. It is

735
00:48:55.199 --> 00:49:00.199
instead of profound, joyful awareness of
the inner most reality of life. I

736
00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:04.119
thought that was a good, good
take on what meaningful life is. Oh

737
00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:10.079
yeah, that would be my borrowed
my borrowed message. What a beautiful way

738
00:49:10.119 --> 00:49:14.480
to finish It was very moving and
Justin. I'm so glad I found you,

739
00:49:14.599 --> 00:49:16.199
and I so appreciate that you said
yes, I'll come and talk with

740
00:49:16.320 --> 00:49:21.000
you. Thank you for sharing your
gifts to the world and with my listeners.

741
00:49:21.079 --> 00:49:22.639
It's been a pleasure to talk with
you. Thanks for helping me through

742
00:49:22.679 --> 00:49:27.960
it. Here is so welcome.
It's delightful listeners. If you want to

743
00:49:28.000 --> 00:49:30.360
learn more about Justin Barnes and his
mini books, his numerous books, visit

744
00:49:30.480 --> 00:49:34.719
him at Justin Barnes Media dot com. Let me spell that for you,

745
00:49:34.760 --> 00:49:37.559
because that his first name is not
spelled the way you might think. Justin

746
00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:45.599
right j U S T Y N
Barnes b A r N E Smedia dot

747
00:49:45.639 --> 00:49:49.559
com. We'll see you next week
for another nourishing conversation. Until then,

748
00:49:49.639 --> 00:49:52.280
remember that work is at least a
third or alive, So let's work on

749
00:49:52.400 --> 00:50:00.400
Purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this
week's program. Be sure to tune in

750
00:50:00.559 --> 00:50:06.239
to Working on Purpose, featuring your
host, Alice Cortez, each week on

751
00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:12.079
the Voice America Empowerment Channel. This
week, find your life's purpose at work