How Leaders Provoke the Future by Overcoming Fatal Human Flaws

WEBVTT

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What's working on purpose anyway? Each
week we ponder the answer to this question.

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People ache for meaning and purpose at
work, to contribute their talents passionately

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and know their lives really matter.
They crave being part of an organization that

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inspires them and helps them grow into
realizing their highest potential. Business can be

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such a force for good in the
world, elevating humanity. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration to help
usher in this world we all want

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working on purpose. Now Here is
your host, Doctor Elise Cortes. Hi,

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Eric, Welcome back to Working on
Purpose. Thanks for joining us again

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this week. I'm your host,
Doctor Release Cortes. Joining you lie from

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Dallas, which is home base for
me. If you don't know me yet,

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I'm a management consultant specializing in meaning
and purpose, organizational lago therapist,

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inspirational speaker, social scientist, and
author. I help companies discover and articulate

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their purpose to thread it through their
culture and operations. And I work with

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organizations to develop inspirational leaders to create
cultures where people actually want to come to

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work and do their best. I
provide programs like the Grab Your Gusto that

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enable individual team members to discover and
unleash their passion and to catalyze fulfillment,

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engagement, and productivity. You can
learn more about me and how we can

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work together at eliscoretes dot com,
orgustodashnow dot com. Let me think,

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my partner and sponsor work Proud,
we are a perfect collaboration. Everyone wants

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to know they matter and that the
work they do is meaningful and appreciated.

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Work Proud helps companies to do just
that through their mobile platform that is built

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to encourage employees to share stories and
recognize each other's contribution. Work Croud empowers

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hr and business leaders to help create
company cultures where all employees are inspired to

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feel proud of their work and proud
of their company. Learn more about work

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Proud and a recent study they've commissioned
about pride in the workplace at workproud dot

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com. Forward Slash doctor Elise Cortes
with us today our two senior executive leaders

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from Deloitte. Jeff Tough is a
principle at Deloitte and holds various leadership roles

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across the firm sustainability, innovation,
instrum practices. Stephen Goldbach is a principal

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at Deloitte and serves as the firm's
Chief strategy Officer. Together they have co

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authored Detonate Why and How Corporations must
blow up best Practices and bring up Beginner's

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Wind to Survive and the recently released
Provoke How Leaders Shape the feature by overcoming

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fatal human flaws, which we'll be
talking about in this conversation today. Jeff

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joins us today from Boston, and
Steve comes today from New York City.

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Jeff and Steve, Welcome to Working
on Purpose. It's great to have you.

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Nice. Yeah, nice to be
here. It's a great I keep

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great company. I like this.
I like who comes into my studio.

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So, as I said to you
before we got on air, I slightly

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liked your book. It was fantastic, and I do make it a practice

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to read the books cover to cover
when I come on because you're part of

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my educational program, you guests,
so I want to jump in first.

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It seems to me when I was
I became aware of your book, I

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thought, what a timely book,
What a perfect time for this book.

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So here we are, we've been
knocked down by the pandemic, and you

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sum up in the book that the
book is about looking forward and working through

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the natural human instincts that keep people
frozen in place, thinking and analyzing,

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and instead forcefully gathering the will to
act in the face of deepening uncertainty and

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do something I thought that was really
compelling. So first I want to ask,

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you know, is this something you've
been working on for a while,

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or where did the book come from? And why now? Sure, well

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I can jump in first on that
one release, it doesn't in many ways,

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and in retrospect feel as though this
was a perfect time for some of

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the concepts and Provoke to hit the
airwaves, hit the bookstores in no small

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part because we have as a society, for the first time in a long

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time, come to viscerally understand what
uncertainty feels like. But it's not a

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new topic to us. It's not
a new topic to the writing and the

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research that Steve and I do,
and it's really been catalyzed by the experiences

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that we've had serving our clients and
serving the industries that we consult to over

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the course of the last call it
two decks decades or so. The core

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observation at the heart of Provoke,
end of Detonate, our previous book is

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that we are living through, not
just in pandemic times, but we're living

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through right now a shift in the
nature of essentially the context that we all

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live in. And what I mean
by that is, for decades and decades,

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in business and in our personal lives, we have been generally governed primarily

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by linear change, meaning the world
changes. It's not perfectly predictable, but

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generally we've been able to rely on
data from the past to guide the decisions

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we make, to take risk out
of the decisions, to take risk out

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of the moves that we make,
whether in business or in our personal lives.

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What we've seen over the course of
the last call it five or six

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years in particular, is a real
shift away from linear change to one of

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more exponential change. And what that
has meant is that we need to shift

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our stance as leaders from being primarily
concerned about taking risk out of decisions to

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constantly having to face uncertainty. And
that's say as I say, that's something

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that we've lived in real life with
our clients for some time now. That

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requires a completely different toolbox and set
of skills than historically we've built up within

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companies. And it just so happens
that as as uncertainty has become more visceral

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for all of us, some of
the ideas in Provoke in particular seem to

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be resonating well with the audiences that
we've gone out to. Wow, I

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just I guess, you know,
it's just when that makes so much sense

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that it's been in the works for
a while and there's been a crescendo.

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However, it just feels like,
Gosh, what a perfect time to bring

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this thing out. And I do
I feel like what you've done here,

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gentlemen, is you have you offered
not just some inspiration to step into it,

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but you've given us some really valuable
tools to do that. And so

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one of the things that I found
really interesting about your book is this.

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You already talked about the momentum of
change and such, but you talk about

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how this idea of when leaders need
proof more analysis to be able to make

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decisions, it's getting hard and harder. And you talk about the if and

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the wind curve, and you say
that it's at these peaks when new opportunities

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shift from possibility if to the inevitability
of win, which I thought was so

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interesting, and the chance and by
the way, your whole analogy of the

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roller coaster in the very beginning totally
made sense. I hate roller coasters,

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by the way, so I'm not
one of those against many adults too,

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I do, at least I didn't
like them as a kid either, So

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talk to us a little bit about
that that if win. Yeah, I

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mean the the concept is that certain
trends emerge and some of them die out

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because they're either not desirable from a
customer standpoint where they're not technically feasible,

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or that you just can't make money
taking advantage of those taking advantage of those

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trends. But lots of trends gather
momentum over time, and hence the building

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up of potential energy at the top
of the at the top of the roller

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coaster analogy, and as it builds
up and builds up and gathers that potential

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energy, eventually it's very clear that
it's each of desirable, feasible, and

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viable, and then it's just a
matter of when the trend will come to

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fruition. And the key to understanding
the difference is that as a leader,

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you have to make different choices about
what to do in a business that's dependent

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on that trend depending on where you
sit in that roller coaster. So if

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you're in the if phase, you
still got a plan for the possibility that

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the trend could come to fruition.
If you're in the when phase and your

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business is predicated on the opposite trend
being true and it's just a matter of

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time before that new trend overwhelms it, then you're effectively in a wind down

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business. You just haven't decided to
do that, and we don't think it's

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a very good choice to accidentally end
up in a wind down company. Wind

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down company being a the moral equivalent
of a pop up firm to take advantage

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of something, except it's not explicitly
popping up, it's actually just in existence

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already. So it's critical for the
leader to understand where you sit that in

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that phase, change and shift your
actions based on whether you're in the if

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phase or the when phase. Yeah, I really appreciated how you articulated whether

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or not we've got an opportunity here
or whether we need to start winding down.

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I thought that was very, very
extremely well articulated and useful. So

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when I was looking at what you
guys were doing, it's like you know,

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you guys are definitely talking about behavioral
economics, but you guys are really

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also psychology majors here too in this
book, right, So some of the

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stuff you talk about with these with
the human biases that we're going to cover

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here, are fascinating. So I
found this both fascinating and frightening that we

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humans do this. You right,
In general, we miss trends, not

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because we aren't looking, but because
our brain processes the raw data of what

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we see through an unconscious filter of
our own experiences. Unless you consciously learn

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how to turn that filter off,
it can be hard to see something right

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in front of your nose. Yeah, so how do we turn it off?

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What do we do? So?
So why don't I why don't I

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set up why that condition exists and
talk about what we What we describe in

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the book is the emergence of organizational
blinders and then maybe Steve, you can

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talk about the underlying fatal flaws and
biases that caused those. So going back

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to this theme of the nature of
change itself accelerating, Historically, when we've

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looked forward into the future and tried
to plan what we're going to do,

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we've been able to have a reasonably
straightforward view of what the likely future is,

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and then some upside and downside boundaries. It's the future has been,

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as I said before, not predictable, but it doesn't really. The surprises

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have been far fewer and far far
lesser in magnitude than they than they have

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been recently in the time of exponential
change. So we've been able to look

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forward use historical data to say,
you know what, I know the range

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of different outcomes that are going to
happen in this industry or with this opportunity,

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and I can plan accordingly. Increasingly, Steve and I would argue that

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as exponential change impacts the world,
we actually need to massively open our peripheral

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vision to the possibilities in the future. And one of the tricks for doing

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that that we talk about in the
book is to not rely on projections of

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the future, but to have the
humility as a leader to understand you don't

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know the way the future is going
to turn out, and instead the best

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way to plan looking forward is not
to try to project, but try to

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imagine multiple plausible equally plausible versions of
the future, and then start to play

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some bets according to which of those
versions you think is likely become true.

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The problem we've got, though,
is that even as a well informed leader

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of any sort of organization, you
may say, look, I really want

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to take that broad peripheral vision and
really consider all the different outcomes. What

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ends up happening is we, inadvertently, because we are human beings, not

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because we're we're ill intentioned or dumb
or or evil in any way. Because

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we're human beings, we naturally fall
prey, prey to blinders that come from

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being individuals acting within organizations, and
eventually we have we get back to a

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narrow range of vision that doesn't allow
us to see the possibilities. So let

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me turn it over to Steve to
describe what's underlying some of those blinders.

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Yeah, a lot of those blinders, and I know we're going to talk

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about this a little bit a little
bit later too. A lot of those

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blinders are ground in cognitive biases that
we are all subject to. And as

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Jeff said, it's we're subject to
them because we're human, not because we're

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inept, and in any way,
it's we are all subject to them,

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and we our hope is that by
naming some of them so that people are

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aware of them, whether it's the
availability bias or the status quo bias,

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which we can get into in a
little bit a little bit more detailed later.

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If you're aware of them, you
can put in place mechanisms like you

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know, liketing more diverse teams that
will help alleviate the impact of those human

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biases on the outcomes. Beautiful said, I completely agree with that, Steve.

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So then of course, if we
taking what both of you just said,

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then then when you write about this, Beautiful in your book, the

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opportunity as leaders or anybody in the
organization is to get really good at pattern

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recognition, which I find both you
know, you're that's probably that's your jam,

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Steve, right, that's what you
do all day. But so talk

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to us a bit about this,
this opportunity to develop this pattern recognition as

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leaders. Yeah, and this is
actually a this is actually a major problem

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because all leaders have pattern recognition,
and the patterns that they've built that recognition

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on, as Jeff described earlier,
are based on linear change. And so

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it feels like we've got more time, it feels like the change is not

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going to happen quickly. But unfortunately
the way exponential curves work that feels like

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a very small thing today, but
it quickly becomes overwhelming in the future.

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In the book, we talk about
the story of the early signs of cord

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cutting being a segment of less than
two percent of the population in two thousand

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and eight, and now cord cutting
behavior and the use of the use of

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streaming services that allow you to not
have appointment television anymore are pervasive, obviously,

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and that was where the executives in
question missed those early signs because they

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were because they were so small.
And so the pattern recognition that we want

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to create is one where instead of
rejecting small early signals, you say,

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ah, I've got to learn to
actually test the contours of what's going on

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there. I've got to create some
tests. And this is something that Jeff

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and I are becoming increasingly clear about, which is that the status quo has

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the unfortunate reality of not feeling very
risky but actually being incredibly risky in an

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exponentially changing world, and doing something
new and different feels risky, so we

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want to avoid it, but actually
isn't risky because you're learning more by taking

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action. And so that's what we
uh that's what we when we talk about

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the instinct. We want to shift
people's instinct from studying to shift that instinct

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to acting. Yeah, and and
somebody who is I have a predilection for

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action. I quite like that,
but yes, I do get frozen and

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analysis paralysis too. So you guys
have already talked about the if win stuff,

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So I do want to come down
to something that I thought was really,

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really frankly just a smashing core hypothesis
that you put forward in your book,

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and that you said that once once
and if becomes a win, and

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nature of the leader's response must change. The opportunity is to focus on the

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moves you can make that will shape
the trend to create a better future,

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one where your organization is advantaged.
So that's just bold, right, and

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I really appreciate that core hypothesis.
It's also inspiring. Well, thank you

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for saying that, Alisa. I
hope it also feels very practical when people

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read about it in the book,
because as we as we think about the

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five poor provocative strategies that any leader
can use, if you've used the first

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two effectively, the first two being
those that you need to apply always when

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you're in that if phase that Steve
talked about before, then you're really well

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prepared to act when you see the
phase change from if to when occurring.

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And as I'm sure we'll talk about
in more detail later on in the discussion,

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which of those other three moves you
make and which of the what type

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of bold action you take is entirely
dependent on how you entered that phase change.

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To begin with, awesome, Jeff, Great, which set us into

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our first break. I'm your host, Doctor Lee's Cortez. We've ben the

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air with the authors of Provoke,
How Leaders Shape the Future by Overcoming Fatal

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human Flaws. They are Jeff Tuff
and Stephen Goldbeck. We've been talking about

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out the importance of developing pattern recognition
to see trends. After the break,

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we're going to talk about some of
those fatal human flaws, those human biases

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that we're all stuck with. Stay
with us, we'll be right back.

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Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant
specializing in meaning and purpose. An inspirational

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speaker and author, she helps companies
visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop

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purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures
that elevate fulfillment, performance and commitment within

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the workforce. To learn more or
to invite Elise to speak to your organization,

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00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:37.720
please visit her at Eleasecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

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00:16:37.759 --> 00:16:49.799
your employees working on purpose. This
is Working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes.

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00:16:51.279 --> 00:16:55.159
To reach our program today or open
a conversation with Elise, send an

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00:16:55.200 --> 00:17:03.320
email to Alise Alise at Elisecortes dot
com. Now back to working on Purpose.

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Thank you for saying with us,
and welcome back to working on Purpose.

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Before we get back to the program, I want to invite you to

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check out my book Purpose Ignited,
How Inspiring Leaders ignite passion and Elevate Cause

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00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:18.440
on Amazon. I wrote to awaken
readers to their passion and purpose and help

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transform them into inspirational leaders who enliven
in the workplace and elevate the contribution of

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business to all at stakeholders. And
I use the content as a basis for

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00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:30.200
my Filing Inspired Leadership and my Grab
your Gusto programs. You're just joining the

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00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:33.039
program today. My guests are Jeff
Tuff, a principle at Deloitte and who

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holds various leadership roles across the firm
sustainability, innovation and strategy practices, and

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Stephen Goldback, a principle at Deloitte
and serving as the firm's Chief Strategy Officer.

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They are the authors of Provoke,
How Leaders Shape the Future by Overcoming

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fatal human flaws, which is what
we've been talking about today. I'm your

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host, doctor Le's Cortes. So
next, gentlemen, let's talk about some

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of these fatal human flaws, these
biases that we have here and help us

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really understand and what they are,
why they are, and why they're there.

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So you talk about the how these
when when we're looking at the if

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to the wind stages here, and
then you think about how this relates to

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how we're processing the information and looking
for opportunities. So if you could talk

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to us about how these flaws get
in the way of us advantaging our companies.

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Yeah, So, why didn't I
actually lay the foundation for this actually

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rewinding to some of the concepts from
our previous book, Debtonate, which which

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in some ways that we didn't know
it at the time, does kind of

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set the table for Provoke. So
debt Nate was a book about essentially challenging

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the playbooks that have gotten us here, because they're not going to get us

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there. And so the first thing
that gets in the way of most organizations

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who are trying to provoke the future
they are looking for is that they fall

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back on the kind of playbooks and
the orthodoxies of the organization that they operate

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in there, and orthodoxies here by
that, I mean the the stuff that's

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just in the ether about our company, our industry, what matters, what

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doesn't matter, what our competitors are
likely to do. And the challenge is

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that as we have lived, going
back to the point of linear change,

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as we've lived in a world that
has been governed primarily by orthodoxy and playbooks

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because being safe and staying safe was
the name of the game, we've forgotten

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the trick of learning inductively and being
curious, going out and trying things.

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And so over time we think what's
happened is and this is in part due

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to the natural human biases that you've
talked about before. We've lost the excuse

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me, we've lost the will to
go and consider different ways of doing things.

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And so our call in Debtonate was
really question orthodoxies when you can not

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every orthodoxy needs to be challenged.
Some of them are actually good and necessary,

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But every once in a while,
pick up your head, and increasingly

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all the time, pick up your
head and say, Jesus, is this

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really the way that we need to
things now? Will be the first step

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to understanding when you are operating primarily
because of these so called fatal flaws in

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the human biases. Mm hmmm.
One of the things that I hate hearing

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is that's just how we do things
here. Oh my gosh, really,

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why don't we just go ahead and
get the get the coffin out right now

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right? So in your book you
talk about, you know, ten separate

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biases, ten separate human flaws.
So when you start thinking about those,

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we'll talk about a couple of them
in the segment here. But which of

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them, if any, would you
say? People would say, well,

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that's not really a flaw. That's
that's what. No, that's not a

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flaw. Well, I would say, there there are biases about how humans

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behave and the you know, I'll
call on a couple of them here to

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illustrate the point. And it's not
that they are problematic to living life and

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how how humans have evolved to survive
but in living in it, if you're

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trying to survive in business in an
exponentially changing world, they actually create massive

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problems. So let's talk about Let's
talk about one of them, specifically,

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the affect heuristic bias. The affect
heuristic bias means that we are we are

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wired as human beings to not react
until we feel strong degrees of emotion or

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pain. Okay, So it's that
affect that we respond to either strong happiness

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strong sadness. So I talked earlier
about the cord cutting segment. The opening

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story of the book is about taking
some research that had been done in the

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video and telephony business to an executive
at a media company and saying, there's

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this strange segment of consumers that's doing
something new and we don't totally understand it.

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They want really high speed internet that
they're willing to pay a premium or

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but they don't want the video programming, so they want to unbundle when every

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company at the time was trying to
bundle video, internet and phone. Yes,

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by the way, at least this
was this was what Steve twelve years

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ago or something right right in the
very wollges of the Wow. Yeah.

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So two thousand and two thousand and
eight. So the so the idea there

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was because the segment was so small, it didn't elicit an emotional response in

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the executive. In fact, he
laughed it off and kind of said,

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one point seventy five percent, why
would I care? And of course we

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know that there was the kernel of
you know, the entire business model of

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every streaming company today, and we
know that most of the major media companies

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today have built their own streaming businesses
to compete with the ones who were taking

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advantage of that trend when it was
clear that it was both feasible, desirable,

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and viable. And so that's an
example of where there's nothing again fatal

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in the real world about it,
but in business in an exponentially changing world,

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not having the feeling to react is
problematic. And when you, oh,

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sorry, Alica, well, I
was just going to say, when

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you couple that the type of bias
that Steve is talking about, there the

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affect heuristic bias with a number of
other biases that essentially amount to creating an

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echo chamber, that's where things really
start to go south. So, for

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example, if I just rattle through
a few of them, availability bias is

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something that's natural in all human beings. We tend to overweight information that's more

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readily available to us than information that's
hard to get. Status quo bias the

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tendency to prefer things to stay the
same because we don't. We as human

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beings are are loss of verse and
if we if we feel change happening,

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it feels like we're losing something,
we're losing the present, and therefore we

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tend to look for information reinforces the
status quo, reinforces the way things are.

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And so in the book we talk
through another three or four of these

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that are central to the idea that
if you allow yourself to fall prey to

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these biases just as individuals, you
will end up essentially just continuing to make

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the same decisions you always have historically
and not being able to see that massively

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widened peripheral vision. When all of
those human biases start to interact together in

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an organization, then what we talk
about in the book is being organizational tendencies,

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which maybe Steve you want to comment
on one or two of them.

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That's where really we get the blinders
falling into place. Yeah, the organizational

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tendencies we all see them, at
least you've seen them in your practice.

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Right. It's where we get in
meetings, and we want to avoid embarrassment,

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right, so we spend lots and
lots of time instead of having the

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real discussion in the room, we
have the one on ones pre wiring everyone

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so that the meet isn't actually a
discussion. It's corporate theater. We you

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know, we we we get rid
of all the exploratory research that gets cut

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in every last budget, so we're
not doing anything to be creative or new

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and effectively. What this does when
you think about how organizations and how people

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make decisions, what do they do? There's an available pool of information that

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everyone can draw from, and our
biases and the way we behave as organization

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cause individuals and teams to select from
that pool of information. Right, They

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select some data or some observation and
then they draw a conclusion from it.

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Right, And the bias occurs in
what data is selected and whether it's data

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that conforms to your already prevailing view
or data that's gathered because the organization isn't

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looking outside where it tends to look. That creates a blinder's on what's available

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and Unfortunately, you start to draw
the same old conclusions that everything's fine until

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you're missing really important trends. So
that's how the human biases contort with the

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organizational tendencies to create those blinders.
They just prevent us from looking outside our

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traditional sources of data. Yeah,
and it seems to me, as you're

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talking Steve, that the more uncertain
and scared and affraid intents that we get,

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the worst those blinders become. The
more entrenched we become in those beholden

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to them. Yeah, I mean
that is another that is another bias that

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that exists, which is the escalation
of commitment bias. So the like think

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about how, you know, the
reaction of the famous Blockbuster story where in

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reaction to Netflix they said, we're
not in the DVD to home business,

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we're in the store business. And
that's a you know, it's again it's

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an escalation of commitments. We see
that all the time where businesses, instead

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of challenging the business model that they
have in the face where their business model

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is clearly going to be outmoded,
what they do is they try to make

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their business model suck just a little
bit less. So this is akin to

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the the we talk about. One
of the stories we like to tell is

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how you know, tailoring like a
master tailor and going to get a custom

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piece of clothing made is an industry
that is threatened by technology being able to

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measure a human being using your using
a phone, and instead of adopting technology,

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a lot of tailors do what you
know what the moral equivalent of sucking

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a little bit less is they put
an espresso machine in the waiting room right

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to make it, to make it, not to make it a little bit

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less worse to go there, but
in fact, when you're competing with not

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having to go at all, that's
the point. So escalation of commitment.

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That's a challenge toom So in this
next bit that I want to bring up

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here, this is smashing guys.
What you've done here to help us understand

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just what happened with this example I'm
about to give in relation to how that

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we act in the wardrooms and as
leaders is like brings it home. So

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you say in the Birth of a
Provocation chapter and I quote the failure of

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the United States to anticipate and prepare
for Pearl Harbor is a prime example of

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what happens when Orthodoxy based on past
experiences and embedded belief systems congeal to create

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an inability to act. As we
saw in part one of the book,

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many wardrooms and c suites are beset
by the same issues. Wow, if

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that doesn't get your attention, then
make us understand, like slap across the

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face, what does Yeah, and
I'll speak on behalf of both of us.

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I don't think either one of us
consider ourselves expert historians. So I'm

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sure there's plenty of your listeners who
know a lot more about Pearl Harbor and

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a lot more about history than we
do. But it was interesting to us

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as we explored what happened at Pearl
Harbor alongside other dramatic events like nine to

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eleven or even like the advent of
COVID, that there are some real similarities

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across those And I'll try to characterize
generally what we've seen. Let's take those

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three examples, generally what we've seen
across those three examples, and maybe draw

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some lessons from it. The first
is that every one of those events had

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someone or a small handful of people
standing up well in advance of the event.

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And saying this is not only a
possibility it's likely going to happen.

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It is likely that we will suffer
a massive naval attack by the Japanese.

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It is likely that we will suffer
a terrible terrorist attack. It is likely

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that we will suffer a global pandemic. But because of the affecturistic bias,

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in part that Steve talked about before, and in part because it was just

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a couple of voices who may actually
just sound like cranks, what ended up

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happening is the systems around us,
around the people at the time looked for

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all the reasonable data for why that
was just a really far gone conclusion that

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it was just such a remote possibility
that we don't have to worry about it

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too much. In retrospect, of
course, it's easy to look back on

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these events and say they were entirely
predictable, and if you just look at

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it, you know, added this
piece of data to that piece of data,

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we could have said it was going
to happen. But in reality,

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no one actually in the moment,
and that's an overstatement for effect. I'm

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sure some people were exploring it,
but no one really took the steps to

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run the test to understand how likely
is it that this event is going to

406
00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:33.519
happen if we imagine different versions of
the future than the official version of the

407
00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:37.359
future. And that's one of the
things that we're trying to encourage all leaders

408
00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:41.720
to do in the face of uncertainty, is not necessarily jump to conclusions immediately

409
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:45.119
or not necessarily take undue risks because
you're listening to the chicken littles of the

410
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:49.400
world. But just you run the
test, understand how you can how you

411
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:56.119
can be more curious and explore different
possibilities for the future and position yourself so

412
00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:59.640
that we don't not only suffer the
downside of some of those terrible events,

413
00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:03.440
but also so we can take advantage
of the upsides that comes with disruptive change

414
00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:08.039
as well. M HM beautifully said, it's just it's that whole example really

415
00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:11.799
helps us understand the importance of paying
attention to some of these things. And

416
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:15.920
I want to talk more about one
of your other core hypothesis that you put

417
00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:18.279
forth around the emotional piece of that, but let's rub our last break before

418
00:31:18.279 --> 00:31:22.599
we do that. I'm your host, doctor Relise Cortes. We went on

419
00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:26.359
the air with the authors of Provoke, How Leaders shape the Future by overcoming

420
00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:32.200
fatal human flaws These people are Jeff
Tuff and Stephen Goldbach. After the break,

421
00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:34.680
we're going to talk about the five
principles of provocation they're right about in

422
00:31:34.680 --> 00:31:38.160
their book. Stay with us,
We'll be right back. Doctor Release Cortes

423
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:44.839
is a management consultant specializing in meaning
and purpose and inspirational speaker and author.

424
00:31:45.160 --> 00:31:51.759
She helps companies visioneer for greater purpose
among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and

425
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:57.000
meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment,
performance, and commitment within the workforce.

426
00:31:57.559 --> 00:32:01.920
To learn more or to a lease
to speak to your organization, please visit

427
00:32:01.960 --> 00:32:07.680
her at elisecortes dot com. Let's
talk about how to get your employees working

428
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:19.200
on purpose. This is Working on
Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach

429
00:32:19.240 --> 00:32:22.480
our program today or open a conversation
with Alise, send an email to a

430
00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:32.680
lease Alise at elisecortes dot com.
Now back to working on Purpose. Thanks

431
00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:36.000
for stating with us, and welcome
back to Working on Purpose. I have

432
00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:37.960
one of the bit of news that
I want to share with you, and

433
00:32:37.000 --> 00:32:39.799
that is that the anthology that I've
been curating for the last two years is

434
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:43.720
just fun. Release. We just
actually launched here in Dallas last week.

435
00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:46.200
It's a collection of twenty five stories
for women across the globe who share the

436
00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:50.960
intimate details of finding their purpose and
what they're doing now to serve from it.

437
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:54.000
It's called Passionately Striving and Why and
indology women who persevere mindly to live

438
00:32:54.039 --> 00:32:58.720
their purpose. So proud of it
I could trust if you're just joining us

439
00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:02.000
today. My guests are Jeff a
principle at Deloitte who holds various leadership roles

440
00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:07.599
across the firm's sustainability, innovation and
strategy practices, and also Stephen Goldbach,

441
00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:12.200
a principal at Deloitte who serves as
the firm's chief strategy officer. They are

442
00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:15.680
the authors of the book provoke how
theyers shape the future by overcoming fatal human

443
00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:19.000
flaws, which we've been talking about
today in the show. I'm your host,

444
00:33:19.039 --> 00:33:22.680
doctor Lee Cortes. So before we
get into some of those provocations,

445
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:24.359
guys, I really you started.
You cueted it up, Steve, but

446
00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:30.680
I found really compelling in your book
that you offer a hypothesis and you say,

447
00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:36.599
although we can't say this is definitively, our strong hypothesis is that is

448
00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:39.839
that by the time something is triggering
an emotional reaction. It's highly likely that

449
00:33:39.880 --> 00:33:44.160
the trend is at the far end
of the wind stage, when options for

450
00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:47.519
influence are limited. Yeah, it's
got to be one of the most important

451
00:33:47.559 --> 00:33:51.640
parts of your book points in your
book. Well, absolutely, And I

452
00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:54.559
know we're going to We're about to
walk through some of the five different strategies

453
00:33:54.599 --> 00:34:00.640
that leaders can take. The longer
you wait, the more narrow your options

454
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:06.319
are, and you know you just
have to to some extent jump on board.

455
00:34:06.319 --> 00:34:08.840
I think I think the cord the
cord cutting example is a is a

456
00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:13.519
perfect one. We see there was
an original mover who sort of set the

457
00:34:13.559 --> 00:34:17.440
trend, redefined what it meant to
be a media company, and now we

458
00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:22.320
see a lot of the traditional media
companies entering in UH and trying to compete

459
00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:29.679
with with streaming services, not shaping
the market for streaming services, but effectively

460
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:35.000
creating their own version of what had
been created before. It's not to say

461
00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:38.280
that that's not it's not possible that
that might be a successful strategy. I

462
00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:42.800
think some of them have a good
chance to compete with the market leader.

463
00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:50.320
However, many probably won't do particularly
well because they're because they're late to the

464
00:34:50.360 --> 00:34:54.880
game. So the earlier you're able
to act, the more degrees of freedom

465
00:34:54.960 --> 00:35:00.440
you have to influence how the market
evolves rather than be a market taker.

466
00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:06.440
Critical point in your book. So
let's talk about these provocations, just briefly

467
00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:08.159
treat them. You do this beautiful
in your in your book. But let's

468
00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:13.039
start with Envision the future that provocation. Sure, yeah, and Alist,

469
00:35:13.719 --> 00:35:15.159
I'll break this down in a way. Maybe I'll handle two of them.

470
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:21.039
I'll have Steve handle the other three
of the five provocations. But if we

471
00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:23.599
think back to the conversation we had
around the if to when phase change.

472
00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:29.679
Okay, so we think about these
five as existing and excuse me, in

473
00:35:29.800 --> 00:35:34.880
an array, starting with very early
in a trend or very early in the

474
00:35:35.159 --> 00:35:37.440
if phase of really not knowing if
something's going to happen. So, this,

475
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:43.599
this one you named in vision is
a foundational capability and a foundational foundational

476
00:35:43.639 --> 00:35:47.800
provocation that we argue every organization has
to be using all the time these days.

477
00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:52.800
Historically and buy envision, by the
way, I'll give it its snappy

478
00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:55.159
name in the market, scenario planning
is often the way that it's that it's

479
00:35:55.440 --> 00:36:00.440
referred to. But you know,
historically a lot of companies would roll out

480
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.880
scenario planning every once in a while
in their strategy practice and then put it

481
00:36:02.920 --> 00:36:07.559
away and maybe pay attention to the
scenarios. We think this is a necessary

482
00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:12.480
always on capability these days. What
scenario planning very simply is all about is

483
00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:15.440
And again I mentioned some of this
before having the humility to say, we

484
00:36:15.639 --> 00:36:19.679
don't know what the future is going
to be, and we can't know,

485
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:22.519
and in fact, if we try
to predict the future, we're going to

486
00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:25.320
get it wrong. So why don't
we instead try to bring into sufficient relief

487
00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:30.719
alternate versions of the future, so
that we can place our bets across those

488
00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:37.119
alternate versions of the future and shift
those bets over time dynamically and continuously in

489
00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:39.280
a way until the future, in
a way where we can position ourselves until

490
00:36:39.320 --> 00:36:45.159
the future starts to reveal itself.
The interesting thing about scenario planning is sometimes

491
00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:49.639
when you look at the challenge head
on, you're going to be able to

492
00:36:49.639 --> 00:36:52.599
see the possibilities. But sometimes you
actually need to look at it with what

493
00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:57.519
I think of as being kind of
a glancing view. So Steve and I

494
00:36:57.559 --> 00:37:02.920
have had some debates over time as
we've talked about how to apply the ideas

495
00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:07.159
and provoke to the real world about
whether or not the pandemic was predictable.

496
00:37:07.559 --> 00:37:10.280
Okay, so and I like to
provoke our audiences and say who called the

497
00:37:10.280 --> 00:37:14.239
pandemic? Who actually named that this
was going to happen? And one of

498
00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:19.760
the interesting things we've discovered is it's
actually very hard to create scenarios that help

499
00:37:19.840 --> 00:37:23.559
you envision the pandemic actually coming to
fruition. But it's easy if you take

500
00:37:23.599 --> 00:37:28.719
a glancing view at the possibility through
the lens of other industries to come up

501
00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:31.079
with a pandemic being a real possibility
so very quickly. What I mean by

502
00:37:31.079 --> 00:37:35.519
that is, if, for example, we had been thinking about the future

503
00:37:35.519 --> 00:37:38.719
of airline travel. Let's say we
had some airline clients or were airline executives

504
00:37:38.719 --> 00:37:44.480
ourselves, and we tried to imagine
what the future might look like for airline

505
00:37:44.679 --> 00:37:47.480
travel. If you do scenario planning
well, then one of the scenarios you

506
00:37:47.599 --> 00:37:52.719
end up with is a massive collapse
in air miles travel. And as you

507
00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:57.519
start to dig into the reasons for
a massive collapse in airlines traveled, one

508
00:37:57.559 --> 00:38:01.360
of the dominant possibilities behind why that
might have happened is the arrival of the

509
00:38:01.400 --> 00:38:06.519
global pandemic. If we had all
been thinking about the world from all our

510
00:38:06.559 --> 00:38:10.480
various different vantage points with a sneric
lens instead of a straightforward linear lens,

511
00:38:10.840 --> 00:38:14.360
my guess is there would have been
a lot more momentum and a lot more

512
00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:19.320
preparation for something like a pandemic taking
hold. So that's what we mean by

513
00:38:19.400 --> 00:38:22.159
the envision provocation, and it comes
very tightly coupled with the second one position,

514
00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:25.159
which I'm happy to talk more about, but let me pause and see

515
00:38:25.159 --> 00:38:30.320
if you have any reactions to that. I thought that was extremely well explained

516
00:38:30.320 --> 00:38:34.000
and very compelling. I don't do
you, Steve, No, I think

517
00:38:34.039 --> 00:38:37.000
we can. We can tackle position
and then get into the three that are

518
00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:40.000
more in the when phase. Okay, okay, so let me keep on

519
00:38:40.119 --> 00:38:45.000
rolling. Then, So envisioning is
all about seeing multiple different versions of the

520
00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:50.239
future. Positioning then, is with
those alternate versions of the future in mind,

521
00:38:50.840 --> 00:38:52.719
as I've said a few times,
spreading your bets in a way where

522
00:38:52.719 --> 00:38:58.000
you're ready to act as the future
starts to reveal itself. And this is

523
00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:01.039
necessarily about I wouldn't call it a
hedging strategy, but you have to be

524
00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:04.679
able to take into account every one
of those futures. And by the way,

525
00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:07.880
there's a for anyone that's not familiar
with scenario planning. There's a simple

526
00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:12.559
rule of thumb that we've come to
learn as scenario planners over time that you

527
00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:15.760
can never have more than four scenarios
to the future. It just gets too

528
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:20.199
complicated to plan again, So don't
imagine this as a sixteen to twenty twenty

529
00:39:20.239 --> 00:39:24.400
five version of the future massive mathematical
challenge. There's generally for is best practice,

530
00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:28.239
and so what you constantly need to
be doing is saying, how can

531
00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:32.360
I spread my investments and spread,
for example, the type of talent that

532
00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:36.519
I bring into my company and the
type of tests that I run in the

533
00:39:36.519 --> 00:39:40.000
market in a way that account for
all possibilities to the future until I get

534
00:39:40.039 --> 00:39:45.639
more information about how the future is
actually unfolding. If we're constantly envisioning and

535
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:49.920
positioning, then as we pass through
the phase change or into the phase change

536
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:53.800
from if to when, then we're
ready to act with purpose, usually as

537
00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:58.679
quickly as possible, to be able
to create the advantage that allows us to

538
00:39:58.679 --> 00:40:02.199
provoke the future that we're at.
And ultimately which of the three which I'll

539
00:40:02.239 --> 00:40:05.760
I'll let Steve talk about in a
moment. But which of the which of

540
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:08.559
the three we end up choosing will
be a function of how clear a line

541
00:40:08.559 --> 00:40:13.519
of sight we have to the future
we want, how much direct influence we

542
00:40:13.639 --> 00:40:16.519
have over the outcomes of the future, and the degree to which we need

543
00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:20.920
to work with others in an ecosystem
to actually bring about that change, and

544
00:40:20.960 --> 00:40:25.840
that ultimately will impact which of the
which of the three when provocations you you

545
00:40:25.960 --> 00:40:36.639
decide to take action on? Excellent, love it yummy. Yeah, So

546
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:40.960
you've got three different provocations, and
again these are at the when phase.

547
00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:45.440
I think it's it's let me start
with the least sexy of them, which

548
00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:52.639
is just adapt That's the one where
you've waited too long and you effectively have

549
00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:59.679
no choice but to say the future
is uh here, and I've got a

550
00:40:59.719 --> 00:41:02.760
shift to my business model or I'm
a wind down firm. So this is

551
00:41:04.280 --> 00:41:08.800
the moral equivalent of the local newspaper
finally putting up an online edition. This

552
00:41:08.920 --> 00:41:15.559
is the traditional media company getting into
the streaming business. This is where you've

553
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:20.280
acted in a You've acted in a
way that the trend is here and now,

554
00:41:20.320 --> 00:41:24.880
instead of shaping how that trend is
coming to fruition, you're effectively trying

555
00:41:24.920 --> 00:41:34.199
to define a segment for yourself in
that particular industry. Again, it's not

556
00:41:34.280 --> 00:41:37.320
necessarily a fatal strategy, but if
you don't adapt, that's sort of like

557
00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:42.519
the last that's sort of like your
last chance. The other two are a

558
00:41:42.519 --> 00:41:46.840
little bit earlier in the phase change, where you have the opportunity to shape

559
00:41:47.079 --> 00:41:51.159
how the future would evolve and how
the trend comes to fruition, so the

560
00:41:51.239 --> 00:41:54.360
roller coasters near at the top,
you can push it and you can change

561
00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:58.199
the direction. Versus an adapt you
just got to get out of the way

562
00:41:58.280 --> 00:42:04.199
or jump on board. So with
drive drive is where you can act early

563
00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:07.800
enough to shape the future. So
you have to think very carefully about what

564
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:13.440
is the behavior that you want to
cause, either in your customers or in

565
00:42:13.480 --> 00:42:17.280
your company, and very purposefully run
tests to try to see if you can

566
00:42:17.320 --> 00:42:22.960
shape that behavior. So early on
in their existence, for example, Uber

567
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:30.280
paid to have cars on the road
that would simulate the wait time for their

568
00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:34.440
customers even though demand was relatively low, because they wanted to make sure that

569
00:42:34.840 --> 00:42:39.280
customers had a very positive experience the
first time they went to they went to

570
00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:45.280
Uber, they were driving the market
for righte hailing services. They were shaping

571
00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:50.239
how customers perceived it. They weren't
studying, they weren't asking customers whether they'd

572
00:42:50.239 --> 00:42:52.480
like to be picked up by a
stranger. They were paying to see the

573
00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:59.039
market right. And that's a good
example of what it means to drive.

574
00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:06.159
To drive a provocation. The activate
one is a little more complicated. This

575
00:43:06.199 --> 00:43:09.679
is where perhaps you're a smaller actor, perhaps you don't have a direct line

576
00:43:09.679 --> 00:43:15.880
of sight to your customer, and
you need to work with different partners in

577
00:43:15.400 --> 00:43:20.800
your ecosystem in order to activate it. I like to call activate our bank

578
00:43:20.840 --> 00:43:24.679
shot. So I want to I
want to, for example, in the

579
00:43:24.679 --> 00:43:29.440
book we talk about Mozilla, I
want to activate the developer community, and

580
00:43:29.480 --> 00:43:32.000
I'm going to make my stuff open
open source so that I can get a

581
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:36.280
different I can change the nature of
the of the marketplace. So that would

582
00:43:36.280 --> 00:43:40.239
be the five provocations at least.
Okay, So thanks Steve, great and

583
00:43:40.280 --> 00:43:43.320
I really appreciate. I was going
to ask you for an example in the

584
00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:45.599
drive change and you brought it right
there with with Uber. That was so

585
00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:47.920
great. And you know it's interesting. I did not know that they paid

586
00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:52.119
drivers to go and simulate those rights
in advance. I had no idea that

587
00:43:52.119 --> 00:43:55.679
existed. That's a great example.
So as I said to you in my

588
00:43:55.760 --> 00:44:00.280
notes, I really was fascinated with
the activate your ecosystem that you talked about,

589
00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:04.239
that the last one you were talking
about, because for me and the

590
00:44:04.280 --> 00:44:06.800
work that I do is, you
know, when I'm working with an organization

591
00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:09.119
and we're going to be working with
all of their stakeholders to be able to

592
00:44:09.119 --> 00:44:15.800
bring everybody on the same page around
their purpose. So to me, that

593
00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:22.440
particular provocation is heavy collaboration. Is
that right? Heavy collaboration and a new

594
00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:25.320
set of muscles, a new set
of skills, and many organizations have had

595
00:44:25.360 --> 00:44:30.599
to use in the past. You
know, it's I think many of us

596
00:44:30.599 --> 00:44:32.480
have been trained to believe that the
more you can control a market, the

597
00:44:32.519 --> 00:44:36.960
more you can actually influence the way
things turn out, the better position you're

598
00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:40.079
going to be, and that has
in time led to a belief system and

599
00:44:40.119 --> 00:44:45.800
a business model that has rewarded big
scaled companies because they're being efficient. We

600
00:44:45.920 --> 00:44:52.360
actually think that we're shifting into it
a time now where scale is not rewarded

601
00:44:52.400 --> 00:44:57.320
with efficiency, or you don't get
to win with scale because you're being efficient.

602
00:44:57.719 --> 00:45:00.079
You get to win with scale because
you learn fast than anyone else in

603
00:45:00.119 --> 00:45:04.840
the market. The faster you can
learn, the more likely you are to

604
00:45:04.880 --> 00:45:07.679
be able to send the right signals
out to other players in the market,

605
00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:12.599
or to use information to your advantage
and to get others to play with you.

606
00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:15.519
And it's actually, it's really interesting
to see some of the ecosystem plays

607
00:45:15.519 --> 00:45:19.719
that are emerging in a whole variety
of different fields. I do a lot

608
00:45:19.719 --> 00:45:23.159
of work and energy these days,
but it's actually some of the smaller and

609
00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:29.599
what you would think of as being
less influential companies who are activating and assembling

610
00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:32.679
the ecosystems in order to enact change
as we move through an energy transition.

611
00:45:32.840 --> 00:45:37.480
And my guess is we're going to
increasingly see that the ecosystem mindset, which

612
00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:43.519
in some ways comes more naturally to
disruptors and entrepreneurs, is something that we

613
00:45:43.559 --> 00:45:46.440
need to teach large scaled companies as
well. Yeah, I'd like to see

614
00:45:46.559 --> 00:45:51.199
a lot more of that education happening
much earlier in our educational system. That

615
00:45:51.239 --> 00:45:53.920
would be amazing. Managine what you
do with that. So, guys,

616
00:45:53.960 --> 00:45:58.000
what have we've done? You We've
already gotten, We've already gone through almost

617
00:45:58.000 --> 00:46:00.159
a whole hour together. We've come
to the end of the show, and

618
00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:02.079
so you know, this show is
listen to my people all over the world,

619
00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:05.519
and the whole idea here is to
be able. People come to the

620
00:46:05.559 --> 00:46:08.079
show because they want to learn how
to create workplaces where people actually want to

621
00:46:08.079 --> 00:46:12.039
come. They want to understand how
to become inspirational leaders who bring people to

622
00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:15.960
their best and how to do business
that betters the world. What would you

623
00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:21.400
each like to leave them with,
Well, maybe I'll start and then Jeff

624
00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:25.880
can pile on. I would say
increasingly, and I think the pandemic brought

625
00:46:25.880 --> 00:46:32.000
this into focus. I believe it's
going to be harder and harder and harder

626
00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:38.320
for people to separate their work life
and their personal life. And we just

627
00:46:38.760 --> 00:46:45.599
need to treat each other as total
humans and understand everything that we're dealing with.

628
00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:50.400
And we all have very different and
we all have very different situations,

629
00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:57.360
and so there's got to be a
respect for the human condition that employers need

630
00:46:57.400 --> 00:47:02.920
to have that create a precondition for
people to feel like they're bringing their entire

631
00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:07.880
cells to the workplace, because people
are going to increasingly make decisions on where

632
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:12.119
they work based on how they feel
about it. And I think that's some

633
00:47:12.159 --> 00:47:14.760
of your work at least, that
you want people to feel like they have

634
00:47:14.800 --> 00:47:17.280
a purpose. The fact, I
think one of the most foundational things that

635
00:47:17.360 --> 00:47:22.360
you can do to bring that purpose
is allow people to be who they are,

636
00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:27.039
and you'll get by that nature,
you'll get a better and more diverse

637
00:47:27.079 --> 00:47:31.079
workplace. Completely agree Jeff. And
there's a critical aspect of what Steve is

638
00:47:31.119 --> 00:47:37.239
saying that is central to our book
hypothesis, and that is that you need

639
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:42.880
more and more different people and in
order to create the type of environment that

640
00:47:43.039 --> 00:47:46.119
is going to create the condition to
win moving forward. It's a very simple

641
00:47:47.320 --> 00:47:52.199
action to remove the organizational blinders that
we talked about before. That involves in

642
00:47:52.320 --> 00:47:58.880
gendering cognitive diversity, and the way
you get cognitive diversity is through actual diversity,

643
00:47:59.039 --> 00:48:01.280
and importantly, on top of diversity, inclusion of all the voices that

644
00:48:01.320 --> 00:48:07.320
you invite into that community to be
part of their natural selves or their whole

645
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:10.840
selves. As Steve says, it's
a very simple maneuver and it's got proven

646
00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:15.840
results. It's really difficult to pull
off, in part because of all the

647
00:48:15.079 --> 00:48:19.320
old playbooks of the past that I
talked about before. I think, I

648
00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:22.119
think what I What I end on
though, is a is a quote that

649
00:48:23.079 --> 00:48:27.880
I repeat as often as I can. I won't tell you the source of

650
00:48:27.880 --> 00:48:30.400
the quote, or maybe I will. It's me. I made up this

651
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:35.039
quote, but I like it as
of not just as that sounds. And

652
00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:40.599
that is meet uncertainty with curiosity and
a bias for action instead of worry and

653
00:48:40.639 --> 00:48:45.280
a bias for analysis. If we
can instill that in everyone listening right now,

654
00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:50.639
then will be in a better place. Great way to finish. Jeff,

655
00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:52.440
Thank you, guys. I'm so
glad to know you both, and

656
00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:53.840
now that we're connected, you can
run, but you can't hide from me.

657
00:48:54.159 --> 00:48:57.679
Thanks for being on working on purpose. It's been great to have you.

658
00:48:58.360 --> 00:49:00.960
Thanks for having us a lease fun
look forward to having that cocktail at

659
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:06.079
some point. Right absolutely, New
York City, here I come. So

660
00:49:06.119 --> 00:49:08.440
if you'll learn more about Jef Tuff, Steve Goldback and the book or the

661
00:49:08.440 --> 00:49:12.920
work that they're doing, you can
start by just googling Provoke the book and

662
00:49:12.960 --> 00:49:15.840
what you're going to find is the
book on Amazon and then probably a Deloitte

663
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:19.440
page. And thanks again to our
partnering sponsor, work Proud, which helps

664
00:49:19.440 --> 00:49:22.679
companies build a platform where your workforce
receives meaningful feedback and thanks for their work

665
00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:25.960
from people across your company. Last
week, if you missed the live show,

666
00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:29.880
you can always catch it be recorded
podcast. We are on the Samuel

667
00:49:29.920 --> 00:49:32.320
Cook, who's the co founder and
CEO of Sanity Desk, talking about how

668
00:49:32.320 --> 00:49:36.679
to build a better digital world.
Next week, we'll be on the air

669
00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:40.519
with authors Rabbi Malka Drucker and Najack
Gross talking about their book and the work

670
00:49:40.599 --> 00:49:45.000
they're doing to help people move from
aging to saging in the second half of

671
00:49:45.039 --> 00:49:47.000
life. See you there, mum
networks at least of our life. So

672
00:49:47.159 --> 00:49:57.119
let's work on purpose. We hope
you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure

673
00:49:57.159 --> 00:50:00.480
to tune in too. Working on
Purpose featuring your home post doctor Elise Cortes

674
00:50:00.760 --> 00:50:06.840
each week on the Voice America Empowerment
Channel. Together, we'll create a world

675
00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:14.440
where business operates conscientiously, leadership inspires
impassioned performance, and employees are fulfilled in

676
00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:19.320
work that provides the meaning and purpose
they crave. See you there, Let's

677
00:50:19.480 --> 00:50:20.440
work on Purpose.