How Leaders Provoke the Future by Overcoming Fatal Human Flaws

WEBVTT

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What's working on purpose anyway? Each
week we ponder the answer to this question.

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People ache for meaning and purpose at
work, to contribute their talents passionately

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and know their lives really matter.
They crave being part of an organization that

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inspires them and helps them grow into
realizing their highest potential. Business can be

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such a force for good in the
world, elevating humanity. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration to help
usher in this world we all want

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working on Purpose. Now Here is
your host, doctor Elise Cortez. Hi

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there, welcome back to Working on
Purpose. Thanks for joining us again this

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week. I'm your host, doctor
Elis Cortez. When you lie from Dallas,

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which is home based for me.
If you don't know me yet,

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I'm a management consultant specializing in meaning
and purpose, organizational logo therapists, inspirational

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speaker, social scientist, and author. I help companies discover and articulate their

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purpose to thread it through their culture
and operations. And I work with organizations

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to develop inspirational leaders to create cultures
where people actually want to come to work

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and do their best. I provide
programs like to Grab Your Gusto that enable

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individual team members to discover and unleash
their passion and to catalyze fulfillment, engagement,

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and productivity. You can learn more
about me and how we can work

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together at Elis Coortez dot com or
Gusto dashnow dot com. Let me think

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my partner and sponsor work Proud,
we are a perfect collaboration. Everyone wants

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to know they matter and at the
work they do is meaningful and appreciate it.

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Workproud helps companies to do just that
through their mobile platform that is built

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to encourage employees to share stories and
recognize each other's contribution. Work Proud empowers

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hr and business leaders to help create
company cultures where all employees are inspired to

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feel proud of their work and proud
of their company. Learn more about work

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Proud and a recent study they've commissioned
about pride in the workplace at work proud

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dot com. Forward slash doctor Elis
Quartez with us today are two senior executive

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leaders from Deloitte. Jeff Tuff is
a principle at Deloitte and holds various leadership

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roles across the firm's sustainability, innovation
and stregy practices. Stephen Goldback is a

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principal at Deloitte and serves as the
firm's Chief strategy Officer. Together they have

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co authored Detonate Why and How Corporations
Must Blow Up as Practices and bring up

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Beginner's Wind to Survive and the recently
released Provoke How Leaders Shape the feature by

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overcoming human fatal human flaws, which
we'll be talking about in this conversation today.

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And Jeff joins us today from Boston, and Steve comes today from from

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New York City. Jeff and Steve, welcome to Working on Purpose. It's

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great to have you. Thanks Marinus
Lease. Yeah, nice to be here.

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So great. I keep great company. I like this. I like

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who comes into my studio. So
I, as I said to you before

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we got on air, I slightly
liked your book. It was fantastic,

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and I do make it a practice
to read the books cover to cover when

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I come on because you're a part
of my educational program, you guests,

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so I want to jump in first. It seems to me when I when

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I was I became aware of your
book, I thought, what a timely

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book, What a perfect time for
this book. So here we are.

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We've been knocked down by the pendemic, and you sum up in the book

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that the book is about looking forward
and working through the natural human instincts that

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keep people frozen in place, thinking
and analyzing, and instead forcefully gathering the

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will to act in the face of
deepening uncertainty and do something. I thought

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that was really compelling. So at
first I want to ask, you know,

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is this something you've been working on
for a while, or where did

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the book come from? And why
now? Sure, well, I can

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jump in first on that one lease
it doesn't in many ways, and in

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retrospect feel as though this was a
perfect time for some of the concepts and

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provoke to hit the airwaves, hit
the bookstores, in no small part because

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we have as a society, for
the first time in a long time,

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come to viscerally understand what uncertainty feels
like. But it's not a new topic

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to us. It's not a new
topic to the writing and the research that

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Steve and I do, and it's
really been catalyzed by the experiences that we've

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had serving our clients and serving the
industries that we consult to over the course

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of the last call it two death
gades or so. The core observation at

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the heart of provoked and of detonate
our previous book is that we are living

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through, not just in pandemic times, but we are living through right now

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a shift in the nature of essentially
the context that we all live in.

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And what I mean by that is, for decades and decades, in business

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and in our personal lives, we
have been generally governed primarily by linear change,

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meaning the world changes. It's not
perfectly predictable, but generally we've been

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able to rely on data from the
past to guide the decisions we make,

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to take risk out of the decisions, to take risk out of the moves

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that we make, whether in business
or in our personal lives. What we've

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seen over the course of the last
call it five or six years in particular,

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is a real shift away from linear
change to one of more exponential change.

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And what that has meant is that
we need to shift our stance as

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leaders from being primarily concerned about taking
risk out of decisions to constantly having to

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face uncertainty. And that's, as
I say, that's something that we've lived

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in real life with our clients for
some time now. That requires a completely

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different toolbox and set of skills than
historically we've built up within companies, and

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it just so happens that as as
uncertainty has become more visceral for all of

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us, some of the ideas and
Provoke in particular seem to be resonating well

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with the audiences that we've we've gone
out to. Wow, I just I

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guess you know it just it's just
when that makes so much sense that it's

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been in the works for a while
and there's been a crescendo. However,

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it just feels like, Gosh,
what a perfect time to bring this thing

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out. And I do I feel
like what you've done here, gentlemen,

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is you have you offered not just
some inspiration to step into it, but

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you've given up some some really valuable
tools to do that. And so one

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of the things that I found really
interesting about your book is this. You

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already talked about the momentum of change
and such, but you talk about how

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this idea of when leaders need proof
and more analysis to be able to make

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decisions, it's getting harder and harder. And you talk about the if and

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the wind curve, and you say
that it's at these peaks when new opportunities

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shift from possibility if to the inevitability
of wind, which I thought was so

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interesting, and the chance and by
the way, your whole analogy or the

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roller coaster in the very beginning totally
made sense. I hate roller coasters,

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by the way, so I'm not
one of those again many adults too early,

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I do. At least I didn't
like him as a kid either.

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So talk to us a little bit
about that that if wind, well are

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there? Yeah, the I mean
the concept is that certain trends emerge and

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some of them die out because they're
either not desirable from a customer standpoint where

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they're not technically feasible, or that
you just can't make money taking advantage of

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those taking advantage of those trends.
But lots of trends gather momentum over time

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and hence the building up of potential
energy at the top of the at the

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top of the roller coaster analogy,
and as it builds up and builds up

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and gathers that potential energy, eventually
there's it's very clear that it's each of

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desirable, feasible, and viable,
and then it's just a matter of when

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the trend will come to fruition.
And the key to understanding the difference is

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that as a leader, you have
to make different choices about what to do

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in a business that's dependent on that
trend, depending on where you sit in

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that roller coaster. So if you're
in the if phase, you still got

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a plan for the possibility that the
trend could come to fruition. If you're

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in the wend phase and your business
is predicated on the opposite trend being true

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and it's just a matter of time
before that new trend overwhelms it, then

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you're effectively in a wind down business. You just haven't decided to do that,

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and we don't think it's a very
good choice to accidentally end up in

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a wind down company. Wine down
company being the moral equivalent of a pop

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up firm to take advantage of something, except it's not explicitly popping up,

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it's actually just in existence already.
So it's critical for the leader to understand

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where you sit in that phase,
change and shift your actions based on whether

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you're in the if phase or the
wend phase. H Yeah, I really

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appreciate it how you're articulated whether or
not we've got an opportunity here or whether

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we need to start winding down.
I thought that was very, very extremely

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well articulated and useful. So when
I was looking at what you guys were

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doing, it's like, you know, you guys are definitely talking about the

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behavior economics, but you guys are
really also psychology majors here too in this

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book, right, So some of
the stuff you talk about with these with

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the human biases that we're going to
cover here, are fascinating. So I

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found this both fascinating and frightening that
we humans do this. You right,

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In general, we miss trends,
not because we aren't looking, but because

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our brain processes the raw data of
what we see through an unconscious filter of

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our own experiences. Unless you consciously
learn how to turn that filter off,

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it can be hard to see something
right in front of your nose. So

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how do we turn it off?
What do we do? So why don't

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I Why don't I set up why
that condition exists and talk about what we

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what we described in the book as
the emergence of organizational blinders, and then

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maybe Steve, you can talk about
the underlying fatal flaws and biases that cause

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those. So going back to this
theme of the nature of change itself accelerating

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historically, when we've looked forward into
the future and tried to plan what we're

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going to do. We've been able
to have a reasonably straightforward view of what

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the likely future is and then some
upside and downside boundaries. It's the future

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has been, as I said before, not predictable, but it doesn't really

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The surprises have been far fewer and
far far lesser in magnitude than they have

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been recently in the time of exponential
change. So we've been able to look

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forward, use historical data to say, you know what, I know the

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range of different outcomes that are going
to happen in this industry or with this

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opportunity, and I can plan accordingly. Increasingly, Steve and I would argue

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that as exponential change impacts the world, we actually need to massively open our

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peripheral vision to the possibilities in the
future. And one of the tricks were

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doing that that we talk about in
the book is to not rely on projections

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of the future, but to have
the humility as a leader to understand you

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don't know the way the future is
going to turn out, and instead the

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best way to plan looking forward is
not to try to project, but try

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to imagine multiple plausible equally plausible versions
of the future, and then start to

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play some bets according to which of
those versions you think is likely to become

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true. The problem we've got,
though, is that even as a well

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informed leader of any sort of organization, you may say, look, I

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really want to take that fraud peripheral
vision and really consider all the different outcomes.

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What ends up happening is we,
inadvertently, because we are human beings,

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not because we're we're ill intentioned or
dumb or evil in any way.

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Because we're human beings, we naturally
fall prey, prey to blinders that come

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from being individuals acting within organizations,
and eventually we have we get back to

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a narrow range of vision that doesn't
allow us to see the possibilities. So

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let me turn it over to Steve
to describe what's underlying some of those blinders.

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Yeah, a lot of those blinders, and I know we're going to

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talk about this a little bit a
little bit later too. A lot of

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those blinders are ground in cognitive biases
that we are all subject to. And

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as Jeff said, it's we're subject
to them because we're human, not because

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that we're inept in any way.
It's we are all subject to them,

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and we our hope is that by
naming some of them so that people are

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aware of them, whether it's the
availability bias or the status quo bias,

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which we can get into in a
little bit a little bit more detail later.

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If you're aware of them, you
can put in place mechanisms like diverse,

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you know, like creating more diverse
teams that will help alleviate the impact

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of those human biases on the outcomes. Beautifully said, completely agree with that,

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Steve. So then of course,
if we're taking what both of you

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have just said, then then when
you write about this beautifully in your book,

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the opportunity as leaders or anybody in
the organization is to get really good

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at pattern recognition, which I find
both you know, that's probably that's your

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Jamsteve, right, that's what you
do all day. But so talk to

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us a bit about this, this
opportunity to develop this pattern recognition as leaders.

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Yeah, and this is actually this
is actually a major problem because all

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leaders have pattern recognition, and the
patterns that they've built that recognition on,

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as Jeff described earlier, are based
on linear change, and so it feels

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like we've got more time, it
feels like the change is not going to

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happen quickly, but unfortunately the way
exponential curves work, that feels like a

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very small thing today, but it
quickly becomes overwhelming in the future. In

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the book, we talk about the
story of the early signs of cord cutting

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being segment of less than two percent
of the population in two thousand and eight,

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and now chord cutting behavior and the
use of the use of streaming services

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that allow you to not have appointment
television anymore, are you know, pervasive

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obviously, and that that was where
the executives in question miss those early signs

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because they were because they were so
small. And so the pattern recognition that

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we want to create is one where
instead of rejecting small early signals, you

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say, ah, I've got to
learn to actually test the contours of what's

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going on there. I've got to
I've got to create some tests. And

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this is something that Jeff and I
are becoming increasingly clear about, which is

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that the status quo has the unfortunate
reality of not feeling very risky but actually

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being incredibly risky in an exponentially changing
world, and doing something new and different

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feels risky, So we want to
avoid it, but actually isn't risky because

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you're learning more by taking action.
And so that's where we that's what when

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we talk about the the instinct.
We want to shift people's instinct from studying,

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to shift that instinct to acting.
M Yeah, and somebody who is

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I have a a predilection for action. I quite like that, but yes,

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I do get frozen and analysis paralysis
too. So you guys have already

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talked about the if win stuff,
So I do want to come down to

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something that I thought was really really
frankly just a smashing core hypothesis that you

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put forward in your book, and
that you said that once and if becomes

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a win and nature of the leader's
response must change. The opportunity is to

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focus on the moves you can make
that will shake the trend to create a

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better future, one where your organization
is advantaged. So that's just bold,

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right, and I really we appreciate
that that core hypothesis. It's also inspiring.

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Well, well, thank you for
saying that. At least I hope

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it also feels very practical when people
read about it in the book, because

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as we as we think about the
five poor provocative strategies that any leader can

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use. If you've used the first
two effectively, the first two being those

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that you need to apply always when
you're in that if phase that Steve talked

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about before, then you're really well
prepared to act when you see the phase

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change from if to when occurring.
And as I'm sure we'll talk about in

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more detail later on in the discussion, which of those other three moves you

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make and what type of bold action
you take is entirely dependent on how you

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entered that phase change. To begin
with, Awesome, Jeff, Great,

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which sent us into our first break. I'm your host, doctor Elis Cortez.

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We've been in the air with the
authors of Provoke, How Leaders Shape

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the Future by Overcoming fatal human Flaws. They're Jeff Tuff and Stephen Goldbeck.

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We've been talking about out the importance
developing pattern recognition to see trends. After

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the rak, we're going to talk
about some of those fatal human flaws,

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those human biases that we're all stuck
with. Staying with us, We'll be

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right back. Doctor release Cortez as
a management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose

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and inspirational speaker and author. She
helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders

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and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning
infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,

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and commitment within the workforce. To
learn more or to invite a lease to

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speak to your organization, please visit
her at Elise Cortez dot com. Let's

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talk about how to get your employees
working on purpose. This is working on

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Purpose with doctor Elise Cortez. To
reach our program today or open a conversation

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with Elise, send an email to
Elise ali se at Elise Cortez. Now

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back to working on Purpose. Thank
for seeing with us, and welcome back

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to working on Purpose. Before we
get back to the program, I want

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to invite you to check out my
book Purpose Ignited, How Inspiring Leaders ignite

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passion and Elevate Cause on Amazon.
I wrote to awaken readers to their passion

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and purpose and help transform them into
inspirational leaders who enliven the workplace and elevate

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the contribution of business to all its
stakeholders. And I use the content as

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a basis for my Final Inspired Leadership
and my Grab your Gusto programs. You're

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just joining the program today. My
guests are Jeff Tuff, a principal at

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Deloitte and Holds, who holds various
leadership roles across the firm's sustainability, innovation,

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and strategy practices, and Stephen Goldback, a principle at Deloitte and serving

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ends the firm's Chief strategy Officer.
They are the authors of Provoke How Leaders

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Shape the Future by Overcoming fatal human
flaws, which is what we've been talking

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about today. I'm your host,
doctor Lee's Cortez. So next, gentlemen,

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let's talk about some of these fatal
human flaws, these biases that we

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have here and help us really understand
and what they are, why they are,

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and why they're there. So you
talk about the how these when we're

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looking at the if to the wind
stages here, and then you think about

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how this relates to how we're processing
the information. They're looking for opportunities.

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So if you could talk to us
about how these flaws get in the way

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of us advantaging our companies. Yeah, so why don't I actually lay the

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foundation for this actually rewinding to some
of the concepts from our previous book Detonate,

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which which in some ways that we
didn't know it at the time does

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kind of set the table for provoke. So Detonate was a book about essentially

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challenging the playbooks that have gotten us
here, because they're not going to get

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us there. And so the first
thing that gets in the way of most

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organizations who are trying to provoke the
future they're looking for is that they fall

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back on the kind of playbooks and
the orthodoxies of the organization that they operate

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in there and orthodoxes here. By
that, I mean that the the stuff

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that's just in the ether about our
company, our industry, what matters,

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what doesn't matter, what our competitors
are likely to do. And the challenge

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is that as we have lived going
back to the point of linear change,

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as we've lived in a world that
has been governed primarily by orthodoxy in playbooks

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because being safe and staying safe with
it was the name of the game,

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we've forgotten the trick of learning inductively
and being curious, going out and trying

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things. And so over time we
think what's happened? And this is in

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part due to the due to the
natural human biases that ste've talked about before,

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we just we've lost the excuse me, we've lost the will to go

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and consider different ways of doing things. And so our call in Debtonate was

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really question orthodoxies when you can not
every orthodoxy needs to be challenged. Some

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of them are actually good and necessary. But every once in a while,

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pick up your head, and increasingly
all the time, pick up your head

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and say, jeesus, this really
the way that we need to do things

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now will be the first step to
understanding when you are operating primarily because of

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these so called fatal flaws in the
human biases. M One of the things

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that I hate hearing is that's just
how we do things here. Oh my

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gosh, really, why don't we
just go ahead and get the get the

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coffin out right now right? So
in your book you talk about, you

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know, ten separate biases, ten
separate human flaws. So when you start

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thinking about those, we'll talk about
a couple of them in the segment here.

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But which of them, if any, would you say? People would

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say, well, that's not really
a flaw. That's that's what that's not

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a flaw. Well, I would
say, they're by it. There are

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biases about how humans behave and the
you know, I'll call on a couple

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of them here to illustrate the point. And it's not that they are problematic

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to living life and how how humans
have evolved to survive, but in living

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in it, if you're trying to
survive in business in an exponentially changing world,

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they actually create massive problems. So
let's talk about Let's talk about one

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of them, specifically, the affect
heuristic bias. The affect heuristic bias means

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that we are we are wired as
human beings to not react until we feel

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strong degrees of emotion or pain.
Okay, so it's that affect that we

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respond to either strong happiness strong sadness. So I talked earlier about the cord

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cutting segment. The opening story of
the book is about taking some research that

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had been done in the video and
teleft any business to an executive at a

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media company and saying, there's this
strange segment of consumers that's doing something new

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and we don't totally understand it.
They want really high speed internet that they're

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willing to pay a premium, but
they don't want the video programming, so

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they want to unbundle when every company
at the time was trying to bundle video,

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internet and phone. It is,
by the way, at least this

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was this was what Steve twelve years
ago or something right right in the very

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well, yeah, so two two
thousand and eight. So the so the

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idea there was because the segment was
so small, it didn't elicit an emotional

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response in the executive. In fact, he laughed it off and kind of

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said one point seventy five percent,
why would I care? And of course

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we know that there was the kernel
of you know, the entire business model

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of every streaming company today, and
we know that most of the major media

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companies today have built their own streaming
businesses to compete with the ones who were

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taking advantage of that trend when it
was clear that it was both feasible,

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desirable and viable. And so that's
an example of where there's nothing again fatal

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in the real world about it,
but in business in an exponentially changing world,

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not having the feeling to react is
problematic. And when you when you

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oh, sorry, at least,
well, I was just going to say,

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when you couple that the type of
bias that Steve is talking about,

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there the affect heuristic bias, with
a number of other biases that essentially amount

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to creating an echo chamber that's where
things really start to go south. So,

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for example, if I just rattle
through a few of them, availability

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bias is something that's natural in all
human beings. We tend to overweight information

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that's more readily available to us than
information that's hard to get. Status quo

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bias the tendency to prefer things to
stay at the same because we don't We

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as human beings are are loss of
verse and if we if we feel change

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happening, it feels like we're losing
something, we're losing the present, and

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therefore we tend to look for information
reinforces the status quo, reinforces the way

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things are. And so in the
book we talk through another three or four

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of these that are central to the
idea that if you allow yourself to fall

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prey to these biases just as individuals, you will end up essentially just continuing

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to make the same decisions you always
have historically and not being able to see

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that massively widened peripheral vision. When
all of those human biases start to interact

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together in an organization, then what
we talk about in the book is being

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organizational tendencies, which maybe Steve you
want to comment on one or two of

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them. That's where really we get
the blinders falling into place. Yeah,

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the organizational tendencies, we all see
them, at least you've seen them in

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your in your practice. Right.
It's where we get in meetings, and

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we want to avoid embarrassment, right, so we spend lots and lots of

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time instead of having the real discussion
in the room, we have the one

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on ones pre wiring everyone so that
the meet isn't actually a discussion, it's

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corporate theater. We we get rid
of all the exploratory research that gets cut

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in every last budget, so we're
not doing anything to be creative or new

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and effectively. What this does when
you think about how organizations and how people

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make decisions, what do they do. There's an available pool of information that

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everyone can draw from, and our
biases and the way we behave as organization

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cause individuals and teams to select from
that pool of information. Right, They

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select some data or some observation,
and then they draw a conclusion from it.

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Right, And the bias occurs in
what data is selected and whether it's

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data that conforms to your already prevailing
view or data that's gathered because the organization

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isn't looking outside where it tends to
look. That creates a blinders on what's

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available and unfortunately start to draw the
same old conclusions that everything's fine until you're

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missing really important trends. So that's
how the human biases, uh contort with

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the organizational tendencies to create those blinders. They just prevent us from looking outside

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our traditional sources of data. Yeah, and it seems to me, as

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you're talking Steve, that the more
uncertain and scared and afraid intense that we

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get, the worse those blinders become. The more entrenched we become in those

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beholden to them. Yeah, I
mean that is another that is another bias

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that exists, which is the escalation
of commitment bias. So the like think

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about how, you know, the
reaction of the famous Blockbuster story where in

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reaction to Netflix they said, we're
not in the DVD to home business,

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We're in the store business. And
that's a know it again, it's an

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escalation of commitments. We see that
all the time where businesses, instead of

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challenging the business model that they have
in the face where their business model is

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clearly going to be outmoded, what
they do is they try to make their

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business model suck just a little bit
less. So this is akin to the

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we talk about. One of the
stories we like to tell is how you

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know, tailoring, like a master
tailor and going to get a custom piece

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of clothing made is an industry that
is threatened by technology being able to measure

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a human being using you're using a
phone, and instead of adopting technology,

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a lot of tailors do what you
know what the moral equivalent of sucking a

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little bit less is they put an
espresso machine in the waiting room right to

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make it, to make it,
not to make it a little bit less

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worse to go there. But in
fact, when you're competing with not having

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to go at all, that's not
the point. So escalation and commitment,

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that's a challenge to So in this
next bit that I want to bring up

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here, this is smashing guys,
what you've done here to help us understand

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just what happened with this example I'm
about to give in relation to how that

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we act in the wardrooms and US
leaders like brings it home. So you

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say in the Birth of a Provocation
chapter and I quote the failure of the

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United States to anticipate and prepare for. Pearl Harbor is a prime example what

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happens when orthodoxy, based on past
experiences and embedded belief systems can deal to

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create an inability to act. As
we saw in part one of the book,

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many boardrooms and c suites are beset
by the same issues. Wow,

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if that doesn't get your attention and
make us understand, like slap across the

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face, what does Yeah, and
I'll speak on behalf of both of us.

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I don't think either one of us
consider ourselves expert and historians. So

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there's I'm sure there's plenty of your
listeners who know a lot more about Pearl

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00:28:53.240 --> 00:28:56.119
Harbor and a lot more about history
than we do. But it was interesting

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to us as we explored what happened
at Pearl Harbor alongside other dramatic events like

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00:29:04.640 --> 00:29:08.880
nine to eleven or even like the
advent of COVID, that there are some

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real similarities across those And I'll try
to characterize generally what we've seen. Let's

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take those three examples generally, but
we've seen across those three examples and maybe

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draw some lessons from it. The
first is that every one of those events

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had someone or a small handful of
people standing up well in advance of the

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event and saying this is not only
a possibility, it's likely going to happen.

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It is likely that we will suffer
a massive naval attack by the Japanese.

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It is likely that we will suffer
a terrible terrorist attack. It is

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likely that we will suffer a global
pandemic. But because of the affecturistic bias,

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in part that Steve talked about before, and in part because it was

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just a couple of voices who may
actually just sound like cranks, what ended

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up happening is the systems around us, around the people at the time looked

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for all the reason data for why
that was just a really far gone conclusion

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that it was just such a remote
possibility that we don't have to worry about

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it too much. In retrospect,
of course, it's easy to look back

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on these events and say they were
entirely predictable, and if you just look

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at you know, added this piece
of data to that piece of data,

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we could have said it was going
to happen. But in reality, no

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one actually in the moment, and
that's an overstatement for effect. I'm sure

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some people were exploring it, but
no one really took the steps to run

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the test to understand how likely is
it that this event is going to happen

407
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:33.839
if we imagine different versions of the
future than the official version of the future.

408
00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:37.440
And that's one of the things that
we're trying to encourage all leaders to

409
00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:41.880
do in the face of uncertainty,
is not necessarily jump to conclusions immediately or

410
00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:45.400
not necessarily take undue risks because you're
listening to the chicken littles of the world,

411
00:30:45.880 --> 00:30:51.519
But just you'll run the test,
understand how you can be more curious

412
00:30:51.559 --> 00:30:56.079
and explore different possibilities for the future
and position yourself so that we don't not

413
00:30:56.119 --> 00:31:00.200
only suffer the downside of some of
those terrible events, but also so we

414
00:31:00.200 --> 00:31:03.799
can take advantage of the upsides that
comes with a disruptive change as well.

415
00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:08.880
M beautifully said, it's just it's
that that whole example really helps us understand

416
00:31:08.920 --> 00:31:11.119
the importance of pay attention to some
of these things. And I want to

417
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:15.599
talk more about one of your other
core hypothesis that you put forth around the

418
00:31:15.640 --> 00:31:18.640
emotional piece of that, but let's
grab our last break before we do that.

419
00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:22.000
I'm your host, doctor Eleas Cortez. We went on the air with

420
00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:27.880
the authors of Provoke Howliers Shape the
future by overcoming fatal human flaws. These

421
00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:32.559
people are Jeff Tuff and Stephen Goldbach. After the break, we're going to

422
00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:36.319
talk about the five principles of Provocation
they're right about in their book. State

423
00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:40.519
with us. We'll be right back. Doctor Release Cortez is a management consultant

424
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:45.759
specializing in meaning and purpose and inspirational
speaker and author. She helps companies visioneer

425
00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:52.599
for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop
purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that

426
00:31:52.759 --> 00:31:59.599
elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment
within the workforce. To learn more or

427
00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:02.559
to at a lease to speak to
your organization, please visit her at Eleise

428
00:32:02.640 --> 00:32:07.319
Cortez dot com. Let's talk about
how to get your employees working on purpose.

429
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:19.839
This is working on Purpose with Doctor
Release Cortez. To reach our program

430
00:32:19.880 --> 00:32:24.079
today or open a conversation with a
lease, send an email to Elise ali

431
00:32:24.279 --> 00:32:32.640
Se at Elise Cortez dot com.
Now back to working on Purpose. Thanks

432
00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:36.160
for staying with us, and welcome
back to working on Purpose. And one

433
00:32:36.200 --> 00:32:37.319
of the bit of news I want
to share with you, and that is

434
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:40.119
that the anthology that I've been curating
for the last two years, has justin

435
00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:44.559
release. We just actually launched here
in Dallas last week. It's a collection

436
00:32:44.599 --> 00:32:47.000
of twenty five stories for women across
the globe who share the intimate details of

437
00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:51.359
finding their purpose and what they're doing
now to serve from it. It's called

438
00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:54.559
Passionately Striving Why and advology of women
who persevere mindly to live their purpose.

439
00:32:54.960 --> 00:32:58.960
So proud of it, I could
fust if you're just joining us today.

440
00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:02.319
My guests are at Jeff principle at
Deloitte, who holds various leadership roles across

441
00:33:02.319 --> 00:33:07.880
the firm's sustainability, innovation and strategy
practices, and also Stephen Goldback, a

442
00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:12.279
principle at Deloitte who serves as the
firm's chief strategy officer. They are the

443
00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:16.000
authors of the book Provoke, Howders
Shape the Future by overcoming fatal human flaws,

444
00:33:16.039 --> 00:33:19.000
which we've been talking about today in
the show. I'm your host,

445
00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:22.920
doctor Elie's Cortez. So before we
get into some of those provocations, guys,

446
00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:25.240
are really you started You cueted it
up, Steve, But I found

447
00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:31.119
really compelling in your book that you
offer hypothesis and you say, although we

448
00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:37.200
can't say this is definitively Our strong
hypothesis is that is that by the time

449
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:40.559
something is triggering an emotional reaction,
it's highly likely that the trend is at

450
00:33:40.559 --> 00:33:45.359
the far end of the wind stage, when options for influence are limited.

451
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:49.200
Yeah, it's got to be one
of the most important parts of your book

452
00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:52.119
points in your book. Well,
absolutely, And I know we're going to

453
00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:57.599
We're about to walk through some of
the five different strategies that leaders can take.

454
00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:02.839
The longer you wait, the more
narrow your options are, and uh,

455
00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:06.279
you know, you just have to
to some extent jump on board.

456
00:34:06.319 --> 00:34:09.199
I think I think the cord the
cord cutting example is a is a perfect

457
00:34:09.199 --> 00:34:13.880
one. We see there was an
original mover who sort of set the trend,

458
00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:17.400
read defined what it meant to be
a media company. And now we

459
00:34:17.480 --> 00:34:22.480
see a lot of the traditional media
companies entering in and trying to compete with

460
00:34:23.360 --> 00:34:30.320
streaming services, not shaping the market
for streaming services, but effectively creating their

461
00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:35.159
own version of of what had been
created before. It's not to say that

462
00:34:35.159 --> 00:34:38.280
that's uh, it's not possible that
that might be a successful strategy. I

463
00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:42.760
think some of them have a good
chance to compete with the market leader.

464
00:34:44.599 --> 00:34:50.320
However, many probably won't do particularly
well because they're because they're late to the

465
00:34:50.320 --> 00:34:54.880
game. So the earlier you're able
to act, the more degrees of freedom

466
00:34:54.920 --> 00:35:00.440
you have to influence how the market
evolves rather than be a market taker.

467
00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:06.400
Critical point in your book. So
let's talk about these provocations, just briefly

468
00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:07.840
treat them. You do that this
beautiful in your in your book. But

469
00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:12.920
let's start with Envisioned the Future that
provocation. Sure, yeah, and Alys,

470
00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:15.159
I'll break this down in a way. Maybe I'll handle two of them.

471
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:20.920
I'll have Steve handled the other three
of the five provocations. But if

472
00:35:20.920 --> 00:35:23.559
we think back to the conversation we
had around the if to when phase change.

473
00:35:23.719 --> 00:35:29.519
Okay, so we think about these
five as existing in and excuse me,

474
00:35:29.599 --> 00:35:34.760
in an array starting with very early
in a trend or very early in

475
00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:37.360
the if phase of really not knowing
if something's going to happen. So this,

476
00:35:37.360 --> 00:35:43.599
this one you named in Vision is
a foundational capability and a foundational foundational

477
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:47.719
provocation that we argue every organization has
to be using all the time these days.

478
00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:51.920
You know, historically and buy Envision, by the way, I'll give

479
00:35:51.960 --> 00:35:54.679
it as snappy name in the market
scenario planning is often the way that it's

480
00:35:54.719 --> 00:36:00.000
that it's referred to. But you
know, historically a lot of companies would

481
00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:02.559
roll out scenario planning every once in
a while in their strategy practice and then

482
00:36:02.599 --> 00:36:06.719
put it away and maybe pay attention
to the scenarios. We think this is

483
00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:10.599
a necessary always on capability of these
days. What scenario planning very simply is

484
00:36:10.599 --> 00:36:15.000
all about is and again I mentioned
some of this before having the humility to

485
00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:19.199
say, we don't know what the
future is going to be, and we

486
00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:22.000
can't know, and in fact,
if we try to predict the future,

487
00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:24.039
we're going to get it wrong.
So why don't we instead try to bring

488
00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:30.519
into sufficient relief alternate versions of the
future, so that we can place our

489
00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:35.559
bets across those alternate versions of the
future and shift those bets over time dynamically

490
00:36:35.599 --> 00:36:38.239
and continuously in a way until the
future, in a way where we can

491
00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:44.039
position ourselves until the future starts to
reveal itself. The interesting thing about scenario

492
00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:49.159
planning is sometimes when you look at
the challenge head on, you're going to

493
00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:52.000
be able to see the possibilities.
But sometimes you actually need to look at

494
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:55.519
it with what I think of as
being kind of a glancing view. So

495
00:36:55.559 --> 00:37:01.039
Steve and I have had some debates
over time as we've talked about how to

496
00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:06.400
apply the ideas and provoke to the
real world about whether or not the pandemic

497
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:09.760
was predictable. Okay, So and
I like to provoke our audiences and say

498
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:13.360
who called the pandemic? Who actually
named that this was going to happen?

499
00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:17.119
And one of the interesting things we've
discovered is it's actually very hard to create

500
00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:23.000
scenarios that help you envision the pandemic
actually coming to fruition. But it's easy

501
00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:27.840
if you take a glancing view at
the possibility through the lens of other industries

502
00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:30.519
to come up with the pandemic being
a real possibility so very quickly. What

503
00:37:30.559 --> 00:37:34.280
I mean by that is, if, for example, we had been thinking

504
00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:37.400
about the future of airline travel.
Let's say we had some airline clients where

505
00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:43.519
we were airline executives ourselves, and
we tried to imagine what the future might

506
00:37:43.559 --> 00:37:46.760
look like for airline travel. If
you do scenario planning well, then one

507
00:37:46.760 --> 00:37:51.639
of the scenarios you end up with
is a massive collapse in air miles travel.

508
00:37:52.280 --> 00:37:54.599
And as you start to dig into
the reasons for a massive collapse in

509
00:37:54.639 --> 00:38:00.920
airlines traveled. One of the dominant
possibilities behind why that might have happened is

510
00:38:00.000 --> 00:38:05.480
the arrival of the global pandemic.
If we had all been thinking about the

511
00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:08.960
world from our all our various different
vantage points with a sceneric lens instead of

512
00:38:08.960 --> 00:38:13.400
a straightforward linear lens, my guess
is there would have been a lot more

513
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:16.679
momentum and a lot more preparation for
something like a pandemic taking hold. So

514
00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:22.000
that's what we mean by the envisioned
provocation, and it comes very tightly coupled

515
00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:23.920
with the second one position, which
I'm happy to talk more about, but

516
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:29.039
let me pause and see if you
have any reactions to that. I thought

517
00:38:29.079 --> 00:38:32.559
that was extremely well explained and very
compelling. I don't do Steve, No.

518
00:38:32.679 --> 00:38:37.400
I think we can. We can
tackle position and then get into the

519
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:39.400
three that are more in the whend
phase. Okay, okay, so let

520
00:38:39.639 --> 00:38:45.320
me keep unrolling. Then, So
envisioning is all about seeing the seeing multiple

521
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:49.199
different versions of the future. Positioning, then, is with those alternate versions

522
00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:52.760
of the future in mind, as
I've said a few times, spreading your

523
00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:55.599
bets in a way where you're ready
to act as the future starts to reveal

524
00:38:55.639 --> 00:39:00.239
itself. And this is necessarily about
I wouldn't call it a hedging strategy,

525
00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:04.239
but you have to be able to
take into account every one of those futures.

526
00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:07.639
And by the way, there's a
for anyone that's not familiar with scenario

527
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:10.000
planning. There's a simple rule of
thumb that we've come to learn a scenario

528
00:39:10.039 --> 00:39:14.800
planners over time that you can never
have more than four scenarios for the future.

529
00:39:15.079 --> 00:39:16.920
It just gets too complicated to plan
again, So don't imagine this as

530
00:39:17.000 --> 00:39:23.039
a sixteen twenty twenty five version of
the future massive mathematical challenge. There's generally

531
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:27.480
for is best practice, and so
what you constantly need to be doing is

532
00:39:27.480 --> 00:39:31.519
saying, how can I spread my
investments and spread, for example, the

533
00:39:31.559 --> 00:39:35.920
type of talent that I bring into
my company and the type of tests that

534
00:39:35.960 --> 00:39:38.559
I run in the market in a
way that account for all possibilities to the

535
00:39:38.559 --> 00:39:44.039
future until I get more information about
how the future is actually unfolding. If

536
00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:47.800
we are constantly envisioning and positioning,
then as we pass through the phase change

537
00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:52.559
or into the phase change from if
to when, then we're ready to act

538
00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:57.719
with purpose, usually as quickly as
possible to be able to create the advantage

539
00:39:57.920 --> 00:40:00.599
that allows us to provoke the future
that we're at. And ultimately, the

540
00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:04.760
which of the three which I'll I'll
let Steve talk about in a moment,

541
00:40:04.760 --> 00:40:07.679
but which of the which of the
three we end up choosing, will be

542
00:40:07.719 --> 00:40:09.920
a function of how clear a line
of sight we have to the future we

543
00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:15.880
want, how much direct influence we
have over the outcomes of the future,

544
00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:19.320
and the degree to which we need
to work with others in an ecosystem to

545
00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:22.920
actually bring about that change, and
that ultimately will impact which of the which

546
00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:29.360
of the three when provocations you you
decide to take action on? Excellent,

547
00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:38.679
love it yummy? Yeah, So
you've got three different provocations, and again

548
00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:43.960
these are at the when phase.
I think it's it's let me start with

549
00:40:44.039 --> 00:40:50.639
the least sexy of them, which
is just adapt That's the one where you've

550
00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:57.320
waited too long and you effectively have
no choice but to say the future is

551
00:40:58.119 --> 00:41:00.840
here, and I've got a ship
to my business model or I'm a wine

552
00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:07.320
down firm. So this is the
moral equivalent of the local newspaper finally putting

553
00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:13.400
up an online edition. This is
the traditional media company getting into the streaming

554
00:41:13.400 --> 00:41:17.119
business. This is where you've acted
in a you've acted in a way that

555
00:41:17.519 --> 00:41:22.239
the trend is here, and now
instead of shaping how that trend is coming

556
00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:30.840
to fruition, you're effectively trying to
define segment for yourself in that particular industry.

557
00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:36.559
Again, it's not a it's not
necessarily a fatal strategy, but if

558
00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:38.840
you don't adapt, that's sort of
like the last that's sort of like your

559
00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:45.280
last chance. The other two are
a little bit earlier in the phase change

560
00:41:45.280 --> 00:41:49.880
where you have the opportunity to shape
how the future would evolve and how the

561
00:41:49.880 --> 00:41:52.639
trend comes to fruition. So the
roller coasters near at the top, you

562
00:41:52.679 --> 00:41:55.840
can push it and you can change
the direction. Versus an adapt, you

563
00:41:55.920 --> 00:42:00.760
just gotta get out of the way
or jump on board. So with drive,

564
00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:05.920
drive is where you can act early
enough to shape the future. So

565
00:42:05.960 --> 00:42:08.840
you have to think very carefully about
what is the behavior that you want to

566
00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:15.639
cause, either in your customers or
in your company, and very purposefully run

567
00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:20.400
tests to try to see if you
can shape that behavior. So early on

568
00:42:20.519 --> 00:42:24.920
in their existence, for example,
Uber paid to have cars on the road

569
00:42:25.519 --> 00:42:31.599
that would simulate the weight time for
their customers, even though demand was relatively

570
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:37.519
low, because they wanted to make
sure that customers had a very positive experience

571
00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:40.760
the first time they went. They
went to Uber, they were driving the

572
00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:46.000
market for ride hailing services. They
were they were shaping how customers perceived it.

573
00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:50.760
They weren't studying, they weren't asking
customers whether they'd like to be picked

574
00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:53.559
up by a stranger. They were
paying to seed the market, right.

575
00:42:53.599 --> 00:43:00.159
And that's a that's a good example
of what it means to drive. To

576
00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:06.239
drive a provocation. The activate one
is a little more complicated. This is

577
00:43:06.280 --> 00:43:09.719
where perhaps you're a smaller actor,
perhaps you don't have a direct line of

578
00:43:09.760 --> 00:43:15.880
sight to your customer, and you
need to work with different partners UH in

579
00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:20.760
your ecosystem in order to activate it. I like to call activate our bank

580
00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:24.559
shot. So I want to I
want to UH. For example, in

581
00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:28.840
the book we talk about Mozilla,
I want to activate the developer community,

582
00:43:29.320 --> 00:43:31.840
and I'm going to make my stuff
open open source so that I can get

583
00:43:31.880 --> 00:43:36.000
a different I can change the nature
of the of the marketplace. So that

584
00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:40.159
would be the five provocations at least. Okay, So thanks Duke, great

585
00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:43.280
and I really appreciate I was going
to ask you for an example on the

586
00:43:43.360 --> 00:43:45.920
drive change and you brought it right
there with with uber that was so great.

587
00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:47.840
And you know, it's interesting,
I did not know that they paid

588
00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:52.039
drivers to go and simulate those rights
in advance. I had no idea that

589
00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:55.639
existed. That's a great example.
So as I said to you in my

590
00:43:55.719 --> 00:44:00.280
notes, I really was fascinated with
the activate your ecosystem that you talked about

591
00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:04.199
that on the last one you were
talking about, because for me and the

592
00:44:04.239 --> 00:44:06.800
work that I do is, you
know, when I'm working with an organization

593
00:44:06.920 --> 00:44:09.280
and we're going to be working with
all other stakeholders to be able to bring

594
00:44:09.320 --> 00:44:15.360
everybody on the same page around their
purpose. So there's to me that particular

595
00:44:15.360 --> 00:44:22.639
provocation is heavy collaboration. Is that
right, Heavy collaboration and a new set

596
00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:25.400
of muscles, a new set of
skills, and many organizations have had to

597
00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:30.639
use in the past. You know, it's I think many of us have

598
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:32.639
been trained to believe that the more
you can control a market, the more

599
00:44:32.679 --> 00:44:37.079
you can actually influence the way things
turn out, the better position you're going

600
00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:40.159
to be. And that has in
time led to a belief system and a

601
00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:46.280
business model that has rewarded big scaled
companies because they're being efficient. We actually

602
00:44:46.280 --> 00:44:53.119
think that we're shifting into a time
now where scale is not rewarded with efficiency,

603
00:44:53.480 --> 00:44:57.760
or you don't get to win with
scale because you're being efficient. You

604
00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:00.480
get to win with scale because you
learnt than anyone else in the market.

605
00:45:00.880 --> 00:45:05.239
The faster you can learn, the
more likely you are to be able to

606
00:45:05.239 --> 00:45:08.000
send the right signals out to other
players in the market, or to use

607
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:13.119
information to your advantage and to get
others to play with you. And it's

608
00:45:13.159 --> 00:45:17.079
actually it's really interesting to see some
of the ecosystem plays that are emerging in

609
00:45:17.079 --> 00:45:20.480
a whole variety of different fields.
I do a lot of work and energy

610
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:23.960
these days, but it's actually some
of the smaller and what you would think

611
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:30.840
of as being less influential companies who
are activating and assembling the ecosystems in order

612
00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:34.639
to enact change as we move through
an energy transition. And my guess is

613
00:45:34.639 --> 00:45:38.440
we're going to increasingly see that the
ecosystem mindset, which in some ways comes

614
00:45:38.440 --> 00:45:44.400
more naturally to disruptors and entrepreneurs,
is something that we need to teach large

615
00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:47.000
scale companies as well. Yeah,
I'd like to see a lot more of

616
00:45:47.039 --> 00:45:51.440
that education ended up happening much earlier
in our educational system. That would be

617
00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:54.079
amazing image. What could do with
that? So, guys, what what

618
00:45:54.199 --> 00:45:58.039
have we done here? We've already
gotten, We've already gone through almost a

619
00:45:58.039 --> 00:46:00.360
whole hour together. We come to
the end of the show. And so

620
00:46:00.519 --> 00:46:02.119
you know, this show is listened
to by people all over the world,

621
00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:05.760
and the whole idea here is to
be able. People come to the show

622
00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:08.239
because they want to learn how to
create workplaces where people actually want to come.

623
00:46:08.480 --> 00:46:12.239
They want to understand how to become
inspirational leaders who bring people to their

624
00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:15.000
best, and how to do business
that betters the world. What would you

625
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:20.840
each like to leave them with?
Well, maybe I'll start, and then

626
00:46:21.079 --> 00:46:25.519
Jeff can pile on. I would
say increasingly, And I think the pandemic

627
00:46:25.559 --> 00:46:31.599
brought this into focus. I believe
it's going to be harder and harder and

628
00:46:31.679 --> 00:46:37.559
harder for people to separate their work
life and their personal life. And we

629
00:46:38.079 --> 00:46:45.440
just need to treat each other as
total humans and understand everything that we're dealing

630
00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:50.360
with. And we all have very
different and we all have very different situations,

631
00:46:50.360 --> 00:46:57.119
and so there's got to be a
respect for the human condition that employers

632
00:46:57.159 --> 00:47:02.119
need to have that create a precondition
for people to feel like they're bringing their

633
00:47:02.599 --> 00:47:07.599
entire selves to the workplace, because
people are going to increasingly make decisions on

634
00:47:07.639 --> 00:47:10.960
where they work based on how they
feel about it. And I think that's

635
00:47:10.960 --> 00:47:14.599
some of your work at least,
that you want people to feel like they

636
00:47:14.639 --> 00:47:17.079
have a purpose. The fact,
I think one of the most foundational things

637
00:47:17.079 --> 00:47:22.119
that you can do to bring that
purpose is allow people to be who they

638
00:47:22.119 --> 00:47:25.599
are, and you'll get by that
nature, you'll get a better and more

639
00:47:25.639 --> 00:47:30.559
diverse workplace. Completely agree, Jeff. And there's a critical aspect of what

640
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:35.559
Steve is saying that is central to
our books hypothesis, and that is that

641
00:47:36.679 --> 00:47:42.239
you need more and more different people
and in order to create the type of

642
00:47:42.360 --> 00:47:45.400
environment that is going to create the
condition to win moving forward, it's a

643
00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:51.920
very simple action to remove the organizational
blinders that we talked about before. That

644
00:47:52.039 --> 00:47:58.199
involves engendering cognitive diversity. And the
way you get cognitive diversity is through actual

645
00:47:58.239 --> 00:48:01.119
diversity, and importantly, on top
of diversity, inclusion of all the voices

646
00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:07.039
that you invite into that community to
be part of their natural selves or their

647
00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:10.440
whole selves. As Steve says,
it's a very simple maneuver and it's got

648
00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:15.440
proven results. It's really difficult to
pull off, in part because of all

649
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:19.199
the old playbooks of the past that
I talked about before. I think.

650
00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:22.079
I think. What I end on
though, is a is a quote that

651
00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:27.440
I repeat as often as I can. And I won't tell you that the

652
00:48:27.480 --> 00:48:30.119
sources of the quote, or maybe
I will. It's me. I made

653
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:34.880
up this quote, but I like
it, as obnoxious as that sounds.

654
00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:40.440
And that is meet uncertainty with curiosity
and a bias for action instead of worry

655
00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:45.039
and a bias for analysis. If
we can instill that in everyone listening right

656
00:48:45.079 --> 00:48:50.599
now, then will be in a
better place. Great way to finish Jeff,

657
00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:52.599
Thank you guys. I'm so glad
to know you both, and now

658
00:48:52.639 --> 00:48:53.840
that we're connected, you can run, but you can't hide for me.

659
00:48:54.119 --> 00:48:57.599
Thanks for being on working on purpose. It's been great to have you.

660
00:48:58.320 --> 00:49:00.920
Thanks for having us at least fun. Look forward to having that cocktail at

661
00:49:00.920 --> 00:49:05.519
some point. All right, Absolutely, New York City, here I come.

662
00:49:05.960 --> 00:49:08.199
So if you'll learn more about deaf
Toff, Steve Goldback and the book

663
00:49:08.239 --> 00:49:12.199
or the work that they're doing,
you can start by just googling Provoke,

664
00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:14.960
the book and what you're going to
find is the book on Amazon and then

665
00:49:14.960 --> 00:49:17.960
probably a Deloitte page. And thanks
again to our partnering sponsor work Proud,

666
00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:22.280
which helps companies build a platform where
your workforce receives meaningful feedback and thanks for

667
00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:25.519
their work from people across your company. Last week, if you missed the

668
00:49:25.559 --> 00:49:29.320
live show, you can always catch
a recorded podcast. We are on your

669
00:49:29.480 --> 00:49:32.159
Samuel Cook, who's the co founder
and CEO of Sanity Desk, talking about

670
00:49:32.159 --> 00:49:36.480
how to build a better digital world. Next week, we'll be on the

671
00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:39.760
air with authors rap By, Malka
Drucker and Nan Jack Gross talking about their

672
00:49:39.760 --> 00:49:44.239
book and the work they're doing to
help people move from aging to staging in

673
00:49:44.239 --> 00:49:46.519
the second half of life. See
their remember that works at least of over

674
00:49:46.639 --> 00:49:55.559
life. So let's work on Purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this week's program.

675
00:49:55.639 --> 00:50:00.960
Be sure to tune into Working on
Purpose featuring your doctor Elise Cortez each

676
00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:07.119
week on the Voice America Empowerment Channel. Together, we'll create a world where

677
00:50:07.159 --> 00:50:14.679
business operates conscientiously, leadership inspires impassioned
performance, and employees are fulfilled in work

678
00:50:14.719 --> 00:50:19.719
that provides the meaning and purpose they
crave. See you there, Let's work

679
00:50:19.800 --> 00:50:20.440
on Purpose.