Hospice Biographers: Memorializing Lives

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What's working on purpose anyway? Each
week we ponder the answer to this question.

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People ache for meaning and purpose at
work, to contribute their talents passionately

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and know their lives really matter.
They crave being part of an organization that

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inspires them and helps them grow into
realizing their highest potential. Business can be

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such a force for good in the
world, elevating humanity. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration to help
usher in this world we all want

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Working on Purpose. Now Here is
your host, Doctor Elise Cortes. Welcome

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back to the Working on Purpose Program. Thanks for tuning in again this week.

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I'm your host, Doctor Elise Cortes, join your live from Dallas,

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Texas, which is home base for
me. If you've been tuning in for

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a while, you know this program
as a thought leadership series that enlightens and

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inspires listeners with insights from distinguished business
leaders and subject matter experts. Our conversations

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are designed to make you think,
inspire you to reach ever higher for cultivating

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your best, and take an informed
approach toward leadership and business. Today we're

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going off track. I'm going to
give you something very special and we're going

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to really showcase purpose and passion.
Our guest today is Barbara Altunian, a

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BBC trained TV and radio interviewer with
more than thirty years of experience. Today,

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among other ventures, she's the founder
and trustee of the Hospice Biographers,

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a UK based charity that trains and
mentors specialist volunteers to record the life stories

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of patients across all the UK's two
hundred hospices. So far they have recorded

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over one hundred and eighty patient life
stories and trained more than thirty hospices,

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with the aim of expanding across the
globe. We'll be talking taking this unique

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approach and hearing about Barbara's own unique
story. Barbara, welcome to Working on

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Purpose. Thank you very much.
I'm delighted to have you, and I

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want to thank Paul Skinner for sending
you to me and alerting me to the

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amazing work that you're doing. And
as I said in the introduction, BARBERA,

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what I'd really like to do is
I'd like to sort of reverse roles

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a little bit here and give our
listeners just a taste, mind you,

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I can't do it the same way
that your biographers do, but give our

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listeners a taste of you sharing your
story, a bit like you might be

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doing inside hospice. So where do
you want to start? I would say

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you should start at the beginning.
I like it, let's do it.

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So I first thought about recording somebody's
life story when my own father was diagnosed

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with a terminal illness when I was
about to become a BBC News trainee,

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and I was told that he was
going to die, and so my first

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inclination was to think about how I
could preserve his life story. He was

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sixty five and he had a thrilling
life story, or that's what I thought

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anyway, being his daughter, and
so I stole or borrowed permanently and a

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radio recorder from my local BBC radio
station, and I set about recording his

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life story. And first of all, he well, my family. I've

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got a very large family. So
I've got four brothers and sisters. My

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parents. My father is a Syrian
English Anglo person and my mom was German,

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so they had very different cultures.
And we were living in a place

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called Cheshire in the north of England, and we spent a lot of our

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time in the Lake district. And
what we what I said to my brothers

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and sisters, was, look,
Dad's dying, Shall I record his life

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story? And they all said,
oh god, Barbara, stop being such

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a nosey old beef. You know, I don't think you should be doing

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that. I should think you should
just leave him to his own, you

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know thoughts. And you know we
I think it's too intrusive and he's dying

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and you should leave him alone and
stop being so nosy. And I said

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to my mom, you know,
well what do you think? And she

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said, h nine by barah nine. You know this is much too intrusive,

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you know. And so I said, okay, well let's solve the

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problem by asking Dad brilliant to be
what he thinks. Because I was a

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bit crushed by that point. I
was only quite young, you know,

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I was in my twenties. And
he said, oh, Barbara, that's

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a brilliant idea. That's a brilliant
idea. He had, very poshing,

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dish accent imo Syrian. And I
said, well, well that's great,

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dad, Well fantastic. I'll go
about and find an audio recorder. And

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so we got into a pattern of
recording his life story in their lovely family

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home in Cheshire, place called Wilmslow, and we would go into the dining

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room and we would go on a
big dining room table and I'd put my

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tape recorder there, and he opened
a bottle of wine. And in this

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recording you could hear all the family
ambiance of our there. You could hear

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my little sister Heidi coming in,
going here, bear bro, what are

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you doing? And you could hear
the doorbell going in the way that it

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does, and the phone ringing,
and my mother coming in, Mark's here,

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hand I compassion and all that kind
of stuff, and she would,

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you know, be interrupting. But
it was really lovely because actually all this

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ambiance and family noises was absolutely what
tells a person's story. And obviously it's

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capturing a time in history. And
I was, although I didn't realize it

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at the time, I was capturing, you know, a part of his

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life and my life. And I
just set about because I've just studied philosophy

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and logic actually, and I just
thought, well, the most logical thing

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to do is to start at the
beginning. So I had a huge,

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great, big notebook. I had
my tape recorder, which putting on and

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off, thinking I'm never going to
be able to record this. This is

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all going to go wrong. So
I kept on checking it because I was

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so nervous about it. And we
started recording, and he would always say

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at the beginning, Oh, Barbara, there's not much to say. You

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know, I don't know what to
say, you know. I say,

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oh, come on, Dad,
So where were you born? And he'd

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say, you know, well,
I was born in Syria, in the

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place called Aleppo, and used to
have a hospital there named after our family,

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called the album Tunians. And he
would start telling the story, and

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it was just brilliant. It was
just wonderful because it told me so many

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things that I'd never have thought to
ask, because if you've lived with somebody,

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you're brought up with somebody, you
don't suddenly stop and ask them,

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you know, what they felt about
their parents or what it was that they

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did as a boy. And I
found out all sorts of fascinating things about

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him, and I had you,
always saying, Dad, are you telling

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me the truth? It is all
true? Just making it up? And

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he would say, of course,
of course. And he got up to

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all sorts of naughty things as a
child, and he's living, you know,

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in this place called Lepo, which
is obviously destroyed now, but at

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the time it was a very beautiful
place, and he would describe what the

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house look like and the hospital that
they used to run. They used to

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run a hospital along Robin Hood lines, which probably won't mean anything to the

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American audience, but what it meant
was that you would price the hell out

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of rich people for the sake of
poor people. And so for poor people

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their services were entirely free, or
they used to accept a goat or something

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in exchange for an operation. And
my family ran it for four generations and

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they they they they ran it very, very successfully. And he told us

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a great story about how he saw
some beggars in the street, and these

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beggars in the street this ideal area
for him to find experiment on. Could

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he make this disabled child who'd been
deliberately made a cripple for begging purposes because

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a large population in Syria were poor, was there any way of surviving?

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And he said to the family,
he being my father, Dr Roger Altonian,

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look, would you like to let
us operate on him and make your

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son a healthy boy again? And
they all said yes. At the time,

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and he told me how they did
exactly that. They gave him first

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class treatment and after quite a long
time, he made this boy, this

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poor boy healthy and he had physio
afterwards after the operations, and he was

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able to walk again and assume a
normal life. Who is only very very

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young, only about nine or ten
years of age, and it was devastating

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for him as a young doctor.
He'd been educated at Cambridge in England,

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and he had full of hope and
you know, he was very excited about

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life that he would be fine,
this boy would be fine. But in

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fact, within a couple of months
when he went to go and visit the

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family again, they'd made the boy
disabled again. Heartbreaking, I know so,

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but you know I would never have
found that out that story. I

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would never have found that out had
I not recorded his life story. And

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yeah, I was just going to
say, you know what I'm getting so

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present to and I'm just delighted by
this is exactly a wanted to share with

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you. I wanted to share you
with the audience here by because I really

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think the work that you're doing is
profoundly important and I do want to see

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it spread across the globe. I'm
getting very present that those conversations that you

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and your father had in his last
few days or weeks were probably some of

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the most profound of his existence in
yours, and you learned things about him

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that you didn't know, and now
you have. You've got something in that

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stands. There's a record that stands
to share that with other people. It's

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incredible, it is. And what
one should also remember is that my brothers

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and sisters, who were so against
it, he died only two weeks after

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I'd finished recording, and that each
of them said to me in a very

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quiet, chastened way, well that's
me. Can't have a copy of the

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record. Did they realize the value
of what I was doing? You know,

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I was only a little kid,
you know, I wasn't I was

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sitting in my early twenties, and
it was just the best and I'd made

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because I had to postpone my training
in order to do this recording with my

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father. So it was a very
hasty decision on my part, but it

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was the best decision you could ever
made, because it was just fantastic.

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And so that's where the idea came
from, right, So that was many

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years ago. Yes, inspiration,
he was the inspiration so there's another word

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for that, but I can't remember
what it is. But anyway, that's

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not important. So now from here, where do you want to share your

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story? This is such a great
way to start. Well, the other

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thing, my father was a character
in a book called Swollows and Amazons,

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which was a very famous classical English
story book at the time of adventure storybook.

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And he told me lots of stories
about what it was like to be

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characters in the famous English storybook when
they were all living in Syria basically,

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and that was very fascinating. And
then the other fascinating mean about his life

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was that he then went on to
become a doctor who became a self experimenter

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and devised a drug for asthmatics which
I think lots of your listeners will probably

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be using. It's variously described.
He discovered it in the nineteen sixties and

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it's called ventilin or intel, and
it was the first drug treatment of its

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kind for asthmatics who'd hitherto been described
really as lazy, werkshy individuals who were

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just kind of putting out on these
chesty, horrible wheezes just to get out

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of work. And you know,
he did that on his own after being

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in secret working away as a self
experimenter inhaling all sorts of asthmatic provoking attacks,

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and he discovered the drug and it
was the reason why he was dying

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prematurely. So I got all that
story in because I was recording him,

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and I was asking him the right
questions, which is okay, dad,

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and what did you do next?
And why did you do that? And

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just listening to him really, And
that's probably the most interesting thing you can

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learn out of the hospice biographer's stories, the value of listening to people,

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really listening, because the world moved
so fast and everyone's attention span is so

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truncated and reduced these days that the
ability to listen before jumping to the next

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is a salutary tale for us.
All. Yes, and to do so

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with extreme curiosity. I want to
know, I want to know who you

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are, and I want to understand
the life that you've led. How often

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does someone get a chance to share
that, Yeah, exactly. And also

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the other thing is, which we
never realized at the time when we started,

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was that if you start recalling somebody
in the beginning each ten years that

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you record of them, then informs
them of their next ten years. The

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brain works in a certain way where
they say, oh my god, Barbara,

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You've made me remember something I've completely
forgotten. Aren't you clever? And

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I would say to them all the
time, No, I'm not clever at

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all. All I've done is I've
done it in a sequence. I've done

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it chronologically. So it's the best
way of recording anyone's life story because they

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will they will, they will be
able to remember all the details. Even

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if they're early dementia, they will
remember all the details because the brain itself

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is ny, is very logical.
If you they won't remember. So that

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was a that was a great that's
a great kind of thing that I discovered

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when I started doing it in earnest. And on that note, that's a

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beautiful thing. Let's grab our first
brick. I want to I want to

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be able to show the fact that
you married philosophy and logic in this Barbara,

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that is beautiful. I'm your host, Elise Cortes. We've been on

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the air with Barbara Altoonian, founder
and trustee of the Hospice Biographers, a

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UK based charity that trains and mentors
specialist volunteers to record the life stories of

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patients across all the UK's two hundred
hospices. She joined us today from London.

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We've been talking a bit about how
what was her inspiration for starting the

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hospice biographers. After the rake will
continue the conversation. Stay with us,

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We'll be right back. Doctor Elise
Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

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and purpose. An inspirational speaker and
author, she helps companies visioneer for greater

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purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired
leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment,

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performance and commitment within the workforce.
To learn more or to invite Elise

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to speak to your organization, please
visit her at elisecortes dot com. Let's

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talk about how to get your employees
working on purpose. This is working on

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Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To
reach our program today or open a conversation

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with Elise, send an email to
Elise Alise at eliscortes dot com. Now

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back to working on purpose. Thanks
for staying with us and welcome back to

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working on purpose. If you're just
joining us, my guest is Barba altoonon

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a BBC trained TV and radio interviewer
with more than thirty years of experience.

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She's also the founder and the trustee
of the Hospice Biographers, a UK based

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charity that trains and mentors specialist volunteers
to record the life stories of patients across

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all of the UK's two hundred hospices, with plans to expand globally. I'm

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your host, doctor Elise Cortes.
So, Barbara, from there you've laid

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the foundation of where this fantastic idea
came from. And of course a story

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like that that's inspired from love and
connection and respect is a beautiful thing to

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stand on to start an organization like
the Hospital Biographers. Where should we take

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the story next? Well, I
think what happened then was that I pursued

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My father sadly died two weeks after
I'd finished recording him, and I pursued

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a career in television with the BBC, and I eventually started my own television

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production and you know, many years
past, but all the way through my

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television career, I kept on meeting
people who would say, oh, Barbara

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with a funny name. You record
audio recordings of people's lives, don't you

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I'd say yes, and they'd say, oh, well, I've got a

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great mum, Well, I've got
I know somebody who's lived around the corner

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who's got a great story to tell. So I would continue to do the

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life stories on audio of people who
were rich and famous, downtrodden and the

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victims of injustice, ordinary people with
fascinating story worries, just by the bye.

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You know. I didn't advertise obviously
I had a full time job,

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but people would kind of just hear
about me through the great vine. And

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then I carried on working in television
and working in television, and then finally

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we decided, my business partner and
I to give up our production company and

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we sold it. And I decided
to try and find some other way of

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kind of living in my life as
it were, but not doing television full

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time. And so I volunteered to
record life stories in a prison, in

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a local prison where I lived.
And they said, oh, great idea,

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Barbara, you can't do it because
we don't have the staff to monitor

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what you're doing and how many drugs
that people put in your pocket, and

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you know what sort of messages they
send to people outside. So it's party

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dodgy, so thank you, but
no thank you. So then I've got

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well, what about a local hospice. So I kind of dashed off an

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email to a local hospice and they
said, oh great, come in,

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come in as soon as you can. And I was still working, so

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I had a few days and went
to go along to see them, and

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they said, start tomorrow. We
wanted to start tomorrow. Anyway, To

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cut a long story short, I
got into the hospice, I had all

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my crime checks done and I started
recording. And I went into a local

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hospice near I live, called Princess
Alice, which is in an area called

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Isha in Surrey. And nobody would
see me equipment and all my experience,

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and everyone kind of took one look
at me and say and said to me,

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no, Barbara with a funny name, no, no, no,

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we don't know who you are,
and the answers no no. So I'd

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sit there, going, what earth
shall I do? This is not this

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is not the way it should be
at all. So I'd hang around and

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I'd make tea for everybody, and
I'd work in this kind of odd arts

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class and you know, just kind
of hung around and made a nuisance of

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myself, and I used to approach
more people, more patients and all the

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rest of it. They kept on
saying, no, Barbara knew, you've

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got a very staine surname, and
the answer still know, And I'd say,

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oh God, what shall I do? You know? I was so

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frustrated. Anyway, after the third
time I went in and they could see

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I'm going to be there all day, bothering them for teas and cakes and

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didn't want and all the rest of
it. And one of the patients said,

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Barbara, I feel sorry for you. You trying so hard, and

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you've got your equipment there. Excuse
me. I will give you something and

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let's take it from there. So
I was very nervous by this time.

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I've spent a lifetime recording people's life
stories as a television correspondent in war zones

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and famines and god knows what,
and running a production company, but that

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was nothing compared to beating this beautiful, beautiful lady who just felt sorry for

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me and wanted to tell me her
story. She was facing end of life

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very bravely and just said, look, get on with it, you know,

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don't give me any of your charitable
stuff. You know, just get

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on with it. And I was
so so nervous and my knees were knocking,

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and I couldn't operate the machinery.
I just completely forgot. It was

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like taking an exam. I just
didn't know how to operate, operate any

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of it. And she was saying, you do know how to operate this

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equipment, don't you? Okay,
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

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Anyway, I started the recording and
it went really well, and I

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remembered everything and it all came back, and she was my savior. She

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just got me going. And when
she finished, after a good two or

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three hours, she had a long
story to tell, and she went around

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the patient community in the in the
hospice and said, you know, Barbara

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is okay. So people said,
well, okay, I wouldn't mind having

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it go actually, and it was. It was incredible. I was so

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relieved. I felt I'm kind of
beginning to get a headache and feeling really

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kind of oh. But she just
unveiled a kind of new world to me

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and she made me feel kind of
two inches high, but then, you

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know, a giant afterwards, and
I felt very relieved. And after that

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it went really really well. And
then after after a year, another patient

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who I'd become very very close to, because a lot of the patients become

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very attached to you, I understand, and they take the mick out of

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what you're wearing. And I used
to cycle to the hospice and still do

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in fact, and they used to
say, oh, Bobby, your heair

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looks ridiculous. Why don't you go
to the head to the hair this is

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one day, or you know,
look at your socks they don't match,

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or you know, and they just
used to take the mick out of me

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all the time. And this one
lady who I became particularly attached to you

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said, Barbara, you do realize
that this isn't the only hospice in Britain,

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don't you? And I said when? How many are there? And

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she said, no, idea,
don't find out that. I can tell

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you it's not the only one.
And so that gave me the idea to

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actually start a charity because having had
such a difficult time, I did actually

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get in and I'm now dare I
say, it's very popular there and I

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still obviously record there and people I
have a waiting list of patients who want

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to be recorded by me, and
you know, it's a it's a it's

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a well, it's quite a success
story. But she gave me the idea

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of starting a charity and that's what
I did in November twenty seventeen. And

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we've actually recorded two hundred and forty
life stories now and we've got into forty

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five different hospices and we're training them
all the time, and we've got another

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one hundred and sixty to go.
And you know, it's it's a big

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old mountain to climb, But I
think so long as we can stay focused

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and you know, we can get
the right kind of people who've got quite

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a lot of hutzper as it were, to persevere with patients who've got you

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know, if you're facing end of
life, you do feel sometimes I would

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imagine that they that you're kind of
up against the world. So if you

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if you are approached by something in
the wrong way, they will say they

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will book and they'll say, no, I'm sorry, I don't want to

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be interrupted by you. Go away, you know. But if we approach

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them in the right way and we
have the right infrastructure, I think we'll

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just carry on going. Well.
As I told you in our first callup,

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Barbara, I definitely want to help
you evangelize this. And I don't

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know how much I told you,
but I have been interested in life stories

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for the last last twenty years and
I wanted to do something like this as

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well, although in a written format, and I wanted and interestingly enough,

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I went into a retirement community and
wanted to wanted to collect their stories.

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I was told no because of privacy
issues. So I understand fundamentally what you're

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doing and its import If somebody has
spent their whole entire life and they get

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a chance to share what matters,
they get to presence the points that are

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most pertinent to them and use those
as their parting words. I can't think

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of a better gift to give of
themselves. You know, I've been chased

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down corridors in my hospice by patients'
families who said, are you that barbera

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woman? And then they kind of
chased me down, and I've kind of

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ran a little bit, not knowing
who they were, and they and they've

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said, you know, we just
want to give you a hug. We

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just want to give you a hug
because we hear your voice on our father

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brother sisters, wives, whatever it
is audio recordings, and they're clearly having

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a lovely time and they do,
and so do their families, and also

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so did the hospice barberaphers. It's
hugely privileged position to be in to record

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somebody's life story, because you are
taking a little bit of their soul,

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because once you give everything during such
a vulnerable time, you are giving something

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of yourself to a stranger. You
know, I am a stranger to them,

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and I can quite understand their resistance, and so it's enormously it's enormously

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privileged position to be in to sit
in a room with somebody to talk about

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such personal things. And yeah,
I love it. And when I get

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to go home, I've usually done
three or four. On occasions, i've

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done six, but that's been the
absolute maximum. Most of the time,

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it's either three or four. And
you know, I just feel exhausted,

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absolutely exhausted, and I just go
straight to bed and I'm physically exhausted because

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I've startled a long way, and
I feel emotionally just completely fatigued. Because

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in order to record somebody's life story, you really do have to concentrate.

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You can't look at your phone,
you can't answer text messages, you can't

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afford your eyes to wander into other
areas. You've got to concentrate on that

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patient because if that patient gets the
slightest width that you are bored you've got

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something better to do, they will
just shut down and they will be crushed

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beyond your worst nightmare. So,
you know, the biggest thing is to

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as I've said in the first break
before the first break was you know,

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you've really got to learn how to
listen to other people and to have that

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kind of empathy where you can understand
what it's like for somebody end of life

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to give their life story to a
complete and utter stranger, and to trust

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them enough to do that. Yes, and now yet one that obviously is

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present and tearrors. And didn't you
also say, Barbara, I think in

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one of our conversations that there's something
about the voice of a person that endoors.

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Didn't you say something about it?
It does? It does? It's

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the voice that matters. One of
the things that you miss so much is

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to hear the voice of your loved
one and the quality of where you've recorded

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it. As I've told you with
my father, you know, it's lovely

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to hear the family interruptions and the
ambiance of a room. It's great to

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hear the voice again because obviously it
just fills you with all the memories that

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you have of that person. Yeah, you know, you can't I can't

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think of a great you know,
you might have expensive jewelry or you know,

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real estate or whatever it is that
you want to think of as being

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valuable. But actually I think an
audio recording, I think audio rather than

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the video is just hugely, hugely
precious and it's unique. It is,

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it is beautiful. And on that
note, Barbara, let's grab our last

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break and then we'll start fresh afterwards. I'm your host, Elise Cortes.

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We run the AAR with Barbara Altoonian, founder and trustee of the Hospice Biographers,

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a UK based charity that trains and
mentors specialist volunteers to record the life

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stores of patients across all of the
UK's two hundred plus hospices. She joined

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us today from London. After the
break, we're going to hear more about

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how she got started in what she's
learned along the way. Stay with us,

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we'll be right back. Doctor Elise
Cortes is a management consultant specializing in

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meaning and purpose and inspirational speaker and
author. She helps companies visioneer for greater

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purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired
leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment,

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performance and commitment within the workforce.
To learn more or to invite Elise

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00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:56.880
to speak to your organization, please
visit her at elisecortes dot com. Let's

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00:30:56.880 --> 00:31:07.279
talk about how to get your employees
work on purpose. This is working on

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00:31:07.319 --> 00:31:12.240
Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To
reach our program today or open a conversation

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00:31:12.279 --> 00:31:19.799
with Elise, send an email to
Elise Alise at elisecortes dot com. Now

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00:31:21.160 --> 00:31:25.839
back to working on purpose. Thanks
for staying with us, and welcome back

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00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:27.720
to working on purpose. If you're
just tuning in. My guest is Barbara

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altuni In, a BBC trained TV
and radio interviewer with more than thirty years

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of experience. She's also the founder
and trustee of the Hospice Biographers, United,

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Kingdom based charity that trains and mentor
specialist volunteers to record the life stories

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of patients across all of the UK's
hospices. She plans to expand globally I'm

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your host, Elise Cortes, So
Barbara. In this last segment here,

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we've got maybe fifteen or so minutes
here, Where should we go next.

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One of the things that people say
to me is, I've only got to

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record from my loved one as it
was left on her telephone answering machine,

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the old fashioned telephone answering machine,
or on her mobiles. And it's just

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so awful to think that that's the
only recording that they've got. So my

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message to you is, if I
had a penny, an old fashioned English

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penny, for every single time somebody
has said that to me, I would

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be a multimillionaires. Indeed, I
know when people can depart so quickly,

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but yet I know in my case, I would have loved to have had

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you interview my mother, Barbara.
Both my parents died twenty eight days apart

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in January twenty nineteen. My mother's
case, you could have come and done

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00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:46.319
her interview because we had time.
Not my father's case because he had a

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00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:51.680
stroke. But yes, what I'm
hanging on to is what I remember of

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a conversation in the hospital. I
would have much rather had your recording.

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Well, I will definitely come along
to the States and interview any relative who

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wishes me to do that in exchange
for a donation because we are a charity.

406
00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:12.720
But I would be very very privileged
and pleased to do that because that

407
00:33:12.880 --> 00:33:16.079
is my favorite favorite ever job in
my life. I think that's why I

408
00:33:16.200 --> 00:33:22.119
came down to work to Earth to
do and I would be very very keen

409
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:28.200
to do that because I love recording
life stories. I think every single life

410
00:33:28.759 --> 00:33:32.480
is worth remembering, and everybody's got
a story. And most of the stories

411
00:33:32.559 --> 00:33:38.720
that I find fascinating aren't stories of
you know, braving world wars or you

412
00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:44.559
know, doing the kind of headline
things that you think about. It's actually

413
00:33:44.960 --> 00:33:50.200
the little things in life that are
so fascinating about recording people's life stories.

414
00:33:50.480 --> 00:33:53.720
It's about how they cope with adversity. And there's little things like having an

415
00:33:53.799 --> 00:34:00.640
argument first argument they've never had when
they were with their best friend and their

416
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:07.240
best friend broke up with them,
or how they felt jealous when their brother

417
00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:15.440
had his marriage to his wife and
leaving the sibling behind and not paying as

418
00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:21.320
much attention as they used to.
It's the kind of small parts of life

419
00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:28.320
and how they cope with it.
But actually the most illuminating and insightful of

420
00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:35.559
recording life stories. There's actually an
awful lot of learning that one can have

421
00:34:36.280 --> 00:34:39.400
from recording people's life stories. I
know what you mean, Barbara, because

422
00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:43.599
as we as we spoke when we
first met, being a meaning in work

423
00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:46.599
and an identity researcher, when I
would go and do interviews, and I

424
00:34:46.599 --> 00:34:51.239
guess I've done now close to about
one hundred and fifty of those recorded,

425
00:34:51.239 --> 00:34:54.320
et cetera, for research purposes.
Yes, you'll learn the way that people

426
00:34:55.159 --> 00:34:59.800
tell their story. There's a lesson
in that, and verily there's inspiration with

427
00:34:59.840 --> 00:35:02.079
them. And then when it's been
fascinating because they go back and share the

428
00:35:02.079 --> 00:35:05.719
transcript with their loved ones, who
often go on to say, I didn't

429
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:08.320
know you had that experience. I've
never heard you tell that before, but

430
00:35:08.360 --> 00:35:15.360
it landed in the transcript. Exactly
is how people navigate their lives, which

431
00:35:15.400 --> 00:35:20.519
is the most illuminating part of the
people's life stories. And people always say

432
00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:22.639
to me, oh, Barbara,
I've got nothing to say to you.

433
00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:24.440
I want you to record my life
story, but I can tell you there's

434
00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:29.320
very little I can say. And
I always say, oh, yes,

435
00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:32.159
okay, Well let's just start shall
we where were you born? Under a

436
00:35:32.199 --> 00:35:36.719
table or in a hospital, or
tell me what it's all about? And

437
00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:40.400
they always laugh and they start from
there. And then when they start telling

438
00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:45.639
you the story, can I just
tell you they look through you, They

439
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:51.760
don't see you anymore. Yes,
giving you huge tiny detail of the man

440
00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:54.920
that came to see them in their
house when they were five, with hair

441
00:35:55.079 --> 00:36:00.199
coming out of their nose and the
blue eyes matching their blue shirt, all

442
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:05.079
that kind of kind little detail.
Do you remember, a huge, huge,

443
00:36:05.159 --> 00:36:12.159
fascinating color kaleidoscope. It's a joy, a real joy. And what

444
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:15.599
else strikes me too, Barbara,
as I'm thinking about who would be listening

445
00:36:15.639 --> 00:36:19.480
to this, So this is someone
who's that now they're on the departed end

446
00:36:19.519 --> 00:36:22.000
of the person who gave you that
conversation, and they want to go back

447
00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:25.840
and remember. I would love to
come back and hear my mother tell some

448
00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:29.159
stories about what it was like for
her to grow up and when we were

449
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:31.000
coming up as children and living on
the farm and starting in the restaurant and

450
00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:37.000
all of that. I think about, why would you want to go back

451
00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:38.599
to that? I want to remember. I want to be with them.

452
00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:43.639
Yeah. And relatives often say to
me. Oh, Barbara, you know,

453
00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:45.840
how clever of you to have got
all those stories from them. Why

454
00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:50.760
did they never tell us they must
love you, they must respect you more

455
00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:59.119
than me? And I say,
oh, absolutely, no, of course

456
00:36:59.199 --> 00:37:02.039
not. It's not true. It's
just that I've been chronological. I've been

457
00:37:02.440 --> 00:37:06.880
I'm a complete stranger. So if
they say something that I don't understand,

458
00:37:06.920 --> 00:37:09.400
I say, oh, really,
why is that? Well what happened next?

459
00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:15.000
I prompt them along. They've got
to explain things in greater detail because

460
00:37:15.199 --> 00:37:20.119
I am unknown to them, you
know, And that's what it is.

461
00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:22.119
And of course they go, oh, well that's all right then, you

462
00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:24.679
know, but you also, like
you said, though, Barbara, you

463
00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:29.440
you come at it. I mean, who doesn't. Who can really resist

464
00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:34.960
having someone sit across from them and
genuinely with curiosity, really want to know

465
00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:37.400
who you are and the life that
you've leared. Who can resist that?

466
00:37:38.119 --> 00:37:45.000
Yeah? No, I everybody loves
it. And once they get going and

467
00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:47.159
when and actually, the other big
thing I've got to tell you is that

468
00:37:47.320 --> 00:37:52.360
when they come in, a lot
of patients, you know, have complaints

469
00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:55.239
about you know, oh I've got
pains here and this is happening, and

470
00:37:55.280 --> 00:37:59.119
this drug doesn't work and everything,
and I say, you know, clear

471
00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:01.840
all that from your thought. Now, let's just start talking about your life

472
00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:07.599
story. Let's start from the beginning
and then and then what what they say

473
00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:10.000
is they say at the end of
it. Yeah, I feel so good.

474
00:38:10.519 --> 00:38:15.239
I feel really really good. Barbara, thank you so much. And

475
00:38:15.320 --> 00:38:19.199
I say, it's the greatest pleasure
in the world. You know, thank

476
00:38:19.239 --> 00:38:23.000
you very much for sharing it.
And that's what it is, you know,

477
00:38:23.199 --> 00:38:29.000
it's it makes people feel better.
It's a therapy. It's not called

478
00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:31.639
a therapy, but it is.
That's how it works. It's cathartic,

479
00:38:32.039 --> 00:38:42.480
it's it's soothing. It it puts
it puts your life into perspective. It

480
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:50.159
gives you a legacy to leave behind
for your loved one. Right, think

481
00:38:50.159 --> 00:38:52.559
about what you just said there,
So listeners, if you I want you

482
00:38:52.599 --> 00:38:57.159
to pay attention to this. So
the fact that Barbara experiences this work as

483
00:38:57.239 --> 00:38:59.800
the most precious thing. And I
think what she said, what she was

484
00:38:59.800 --> 00:39:01.760
put on earth force, so I
might call that purpose out of maybe she

485
00:39:01.800 --> 00:39:06.880
doesn't, but and then that she's
giving the gift of the person telling the

486
00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:12.679
story who feels elevated and feels celebrated
and what a gift out. So when

487
00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:14.639
you think about, wow, what
can I do in this world to make

488
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:17.199
a difference, to contribute my passions
and make the world a better place.

489
00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:21.400
That's a win win, win win
all the way around. Right there.

490
00:39:21.440 --> 00:39:24.239
That is just beautiful, Barbara.
Yeah, well, I think it is.

491
00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:28.000
And it's enjoyable for everybody. You
know, it is a win win

492
00:39:28.119 --> 00:39:31.239
situation because I'm enjoying it, they're
enjoying it, and most of all their

493
00:39:32.119 --> 00:39:37.000
families enjoy it, and they just
find out so much and also they begin

494
00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:40.519
to think, gosh, I'm a
bit like that. And my relative,

495
00:39:40.760 --> 00:39:45.440
who I love very dearly, I
had no idea about all this detail,

496
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:50.199
and they're giving me detail which I
think has been passed on to me.

497
00:39:50.840 --> 00:39:53.159
So I'm going to take I'm going
to take a lesson out of that,

498
00:39:53.599 --> 00:39:58.079
and I'm going to do it that
way. You know, I'm getting divorced

499
00:39:58.079 --> 00:40:01.239
at the moment, I'm going through
bankruptcy at the moment. I'm going through

500
00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:05.519
adversity at the moment. So you
know, I always say at the end

501
00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:07.199
of the interviews, now this is
the favorite part. I'm going to go

502
00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:12.119
and make some tea for you.
And while i'm there, I want you

503
00:40:12.159 --> 00:40:15.639
to think about the advice you want
to give to your relatives, and I

504
00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:19.719
want, brilliant you should give them
some advice. And they say, oh,

505
00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:22.159
I don't know before I can't possibly
do that. Brother, I think,

506
00:40:22.280 --> 00:40:22.880
well, I'll just go to make
a cup of tea and come back

507
00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:25.719
see what you think. And then
by the time I get back, they've

508
00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:30.760
got They've written a long, long
list, and they say the most extraordinary

509
00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:36.840
thing. They say things like Jack
even that when I'm dead, I'm gonna

510
00:40:36.840 --> 00:40:37.880
be able to look down on you. And I'm just going to tell you

511
00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:42.320
right now. I know you're only
five, but I will I will know

512
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:45.760
when you're picking your nose, I
will know, and I will be telling

513
00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:51.360
you off. It's delightful, Oh
my gosh. And when Jack is forty

514
00:40:51.400 --> 00:40:53.679
five years old, he's gonna love
hearing that. He's gonna love hearing that.

515
00:40:53.960 --> 00:40:59.280
And you know, they they talk
about the insights that they made and

516
00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:04.280
the mistakes made. You know,
they come clean on everything that they've done.

517
00:41:04.360 --> 00:41:10.480
And you know, if we do
come across somebody whose life story doesn't

518
00:41:10.519 --> 00:41:15.480
include, you know, bits that
have affected other people adversely, I mean

519
00:41:15.559 --> 00:41:21.039
seriously, like, oh, if
the worst should happen. It hasn't happened

520
00:41:21.079 --> 00:41:27.239
to us yet. But if we
come across somebody who is a child sex

521
00:41:27.239 --> 00:41:32.880
abuser or a robber or a thief
or a criminal, you know, we

522
00:41:32.960 --> 00:41:38.000
have to stop the recording and to
say I'm sorry that the recording ends here.

523
00:41:39.079 --> 00:41:45.199
This goes to social services within the
hospice, and if necessary, the

524
00:41:45.239 --> 00:41:52.519
police will be informed. So you
know, it's not always I've never had

525
00:41:52.519 --> 00:41:59.360
that situation, but we've got that
provision laid out in our rules and regulations

526
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:04.880
and stick by it. So so
you know, in our in our life

527
00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:10.360
stories they're always very inspiring. But
there will come a time in my life

528
00:42:10.360 --> 00:42:19.039
when I will come across somebody who
has had less than perfect past, and

529
00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:22.920
we will have proper rooms there and
we will have to our recordings, you

530
00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:30.360
know, because we don't want families
to ever be upset after listening to it.

531
00:42:30.679 --> 00:42:37.599
This is a heartwarming service. It's
not one where people can can abuse

532
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:44.199
it. So you know, we're
not silly, we're not naive. You

533
00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:46.679
know what we're doing. Yeah,
the numbers are there, right, Barbara,

534
00:42:46.719 --> 00:42:50.559
So tell me again you said how
many how many hospices do have you

535
00:42:50.599 --> 00:42:52.119
been working in? And how many
how many stories have you taken? Well,

536
00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:57.480
we've now done two hundred and fifty
fifty stories, two hundred and fifty

537
00:42:57.559 --> 00:43:04.800
stories, and we've and we've up
to our number of hospices and how many

538
00:43:04.840 --> 00:43:09.599
again, I think it's about forty
five. Now we've got, you know,

539
00:43:09.719 --> 00:43:14.559
another one hundred and sixty to go
because there are two hundred and twenty

540
00:43:14.599 --> 00:43:17.760
hospices. Our aim actually is to
do two hundred because we think that they're

541
00:43:17.760 --> 00:43:23.760
going to be at least twenty that
we can't do. And the other thing

542
00:43:23.840 --> 00:43:29.400
is that we're going to adapt our
charity so that we can also do children's

543
00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:35.239
hospices, so we're probably going to
be recording them months that they will want

544
00:43:35.800 --> 00:43:40.320
to be remembered. You know that
there's lots of There are two things.

545
00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:47.360
One is that there are dying children
who've got terminal disease, very very young

546
00:43:47.480 --> 00:43:57.480
teenagers who've had children but who themselves
are dying. Those babies and very very

547
00:43:57.840 --> 00:44:01.400
young children are going to want to
be able to see their mother or their

548
00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:07.800
father. So we in the future
want to expand into that area where we

549
00:44:07.880 --> 00:44:14.960
can record them on film. Otherwise
it's on audio because most people preferred to

550
00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:17.880
be recorded on audio, right,
especially if they're going through treatments and they're

551
00:44:17.880 --> 00:44:22.000
hooked up to machines and such.
So, Barbara, I just got a

552
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:24.559
keen insight when you just said all
of this. I just really connected something

553
00:44:24.599 --> 00:44:28.559
important here between your work and mind. And so since my work is so

554
00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:32.719
much about meaning and purpose, and
purpose really can't work, and it doesn't

555
00:44:32.719 --> 00:44:36.760
work without the fact that we have
a limited number of days on the planet.

556
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:39.119
If we had infinite time, purpose
wouldn't work because you wouldn't have the

557
00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:45.760
urgency. So what I appreciate about
our connection here is that I'm out to

558
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:50.400
help people live their biggest, fullest, most passionate, inspired life of contribution

559
00:44:50.480 --> 00:44:54.480
as they possibly can, and you're
there to catch their story when they finish

560
00:44:54.519 --> 00:45:01.639
exactly exactly, but we don't often
some of our patients are they've got a

561
00:45:01.719 --> 00:45:07.880
year or so to live. We
also do ward patients in hospices, which

562
00:45:07.880 --> 00:45:14.239
means they only have been a matter
of weeks to live, so huge variants

563
00:45:14.320 --> 00:45:20.880
there. And then now during COVID, we do interviews on the phone between

564
00:45:20.920 --> 00:45:28.039
grandchildren and grandparents, and also we
do audio interviews over the phone as an

565
00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:36.159
audiobiography. So over COVID we're doing
it remotely. How do you find that

566
00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:45.559
in relation to being in person.
It's difficult really because I think I've done

567
00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:52.480
fifty interviews now with grandparents being interviewed
by their grandchildren, and the interviews are

568
00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:58.800
not the same. But there's still
a value. But you know, grandchildren

569
00:45:58.920 --> 00:46:02.039
ask the sweetest of question, but
they're not getting to the heart of the

570
00:46:02.119 --> 00:46:07.280
interview, right right. It's good
and bad. You know, you wouldn't

571
00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:12.280
say one was inferior to another,
but it's a totally different thing. You

572
00:46:12.320 --> 00:46:15.840
know, they say, Granny,
you know what's your favorite breakfast? And

573
00:46:15.880 --> 00:46:20.480
when was your first kiss? And
you can hear the grandparent peeling with laughter,

574
00:46:21.599 --> 00:46:28.320
enjoy it so much, it's really
really enjoyable. So it's a very

575
00:46:28.400 --> 00:46:31.559
very different interview. But that's what
we've been doing since COVID. Okay,

576
00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:36.320
we'll get you back to business,
Barbara, because your work, the way

577
00:46:36.360 --> 00:46:40.039
you do it is precious, and
I know you've trained your volunteers very specifically

578
00:46:40.519 --> 00:46:45.079
to be able to elicit the story
that you really want to celebrate and to

579
00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:46.800
that. And here we are pretty
much at the end of the show already,

580
00:46:46.840 --> 00:46:51.079
Barbara, So and say about a
minute, what would you like little

581
00:46:51.079 --> 00:46:58.880
listeners with record your loved ones or
get somebody like me to record them for

582
00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:05.119
you. But whatever you do,
just get them on tape because you will

583
00:47:05.159 --> 00:47:09.000
be so pleased afterwards and after they've
died, because the most biggest thing that

584
00:47:09.039 --> 00:47:17.320
you want to hear is is their
voice and all their little foibles and the

585
00:47:17.320 --> 00:47:23.119
way they speak and the way they
cough and the way they splutter or whatever

586
00:47:23.159 --> 00:47:28.559
it is. You know, everybody
has their own way of talking and their

587
00:47:28.599 --> 00:47:32.679
turn of phrase, and even even
the adjectives and adverbs and nouns that they

588
00:47:32.800 --> 00:47:37.800
use are very specific to them,
and you know they're unique. Each person,

589
00:47:38.039 --> 00:47:43.400
each person's life story, each person's
voice is unique, and that's what

590
00:47:43.440 --> 00:47:49.840
you want to remember because that's what
you love them for. M Barbara,

591
00:47:49.880 --> 00:47:52.840
you are a gift to the world. And I'm so grateful that Paul Skinner

592
00:47:52.960 --> 00:47:59.400
of what is this What's pimp my
Cars? Paul Skinner pimped my cars?

593
00:47:59.440 --> 00:48:01.159
That's how I meant he connected us. He knew that you were working on

594
00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:05.760
purpose and with passion. I thank
you so much for sharing your heart,

595
00:48:05.800 --> 00:48:09.719
your soul, your story and the
hospice biographer's mission with us. Thank you.

596
00:48:10.519 --> 00:48:14.679
It was great to thank the listeners. If you want to learn more

597
00:48:14.679 --> 00:48:16.559
about Barbara altooni In and what she
and the work she and Reteam are doing

598
00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:22.039
at the Hospice Biographers, go to
the Hospice Biographers dot com. Last week,

599
00:48:22.039 --> 00:48:23.880
if you missed the live show,
you can always catch it be a

600
00:48:23.880 --> 00:48:28.679
recorded podcast. We were on the
air with Steve Brown, previously a futurist

601
00:48:28.679 --> 00:48:32.079
at Intel, this time talking about
his book The Innovation Ultimatum, how six

602
00:48:32.239 --> 00:48:37.360
strategic technologies will reshape every business in
the twenty twenties. Next week will be

603
00:48:37.400 --> 00:48:42.559
on the air with doctor Herb Sennet
talking about the importance of encouragement and leadership.

604
00:48:42.719 --> 00:48:44.679
See you there. Remember that work
is at least a third of our

605
00:48:44.760 --> 00:48:51.480
life, So let's work on purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this week's program.

606
00:48:51.800 --> 00:48:54.199
Be sure to tune in to Working
on Purpose, featuring your host,

607
00:48:54.280 --> 00:49:00.639
doctor Elise Cortes, each week on
the Voice America Empowerment Channel. Together,

608
00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:07.880
we'll create a world where business operates
conscientiously, leadership inspires impassioned performance, and

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employees are fulfilled in work that provides
the meaning and purpose they crave. See

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you there, Let's work on Purpose.