High-Performance Companies Operate from Deep Purpose

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What's working on purpose anyway? Each
week we ponder the answer to this question.

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People ache for meaning and purpose at
work, to contribute their talents passionately

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and know their lives really matter.
They crave being part of an organization that

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inspires them and helps them grow into
realizing their highest potential business can be such

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a force for good in the world, elevating humanity. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration to help
usher in this world we all want Working

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on purpose. Now Here is your
host, doctor Elise Cortez. Welcome back

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to the Working on Purpose Program.
Thanks for tuning in again this week.

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I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortees, joining you alive from Dallas, which

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is home base for me. If
you don't know me yet, I'm a

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management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose, organizational logotherapist, inspirational speaker, social

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scientist, and author. My team
and I help companies discover and articulate their

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purpose to embed it into their culture
operations. We work with forward thinking or

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forward reaching organizations to develop inspirational leaders
who create cultures where people actually want to

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come to work and do their best, and we provide programs like to grab

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your gusto that enable individual team members
to discover and unlease their passion and purpose

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at work to catalyze fulfillment, engagement, and productivity. You can learn more

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about us and how we can work
together at at least cortez dot Com.

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With us today is doctor Ronjay Gulati. He's a professor at Harvard Business School

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and an expert on leadership, strategy
and organizational growth. Until recently, he

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chaired the Advanced Management Program, the
school's flagship's Senior Leader executive program. He

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has authored seven books, including Deep
Purpose, The Heart and Soul of High

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Performance Companies, which which we'll be
talking about in today's program. He joins

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us a day from Boston, Doctor
Glani Glate, Welcome to Working on Purpose.

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Thank you, Doctor Cortez's pleasure to
be here with you today, and

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I'm delighted to have a chance to
talk to you and your listener. Thank

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you well. As you know,
as we spoke at that before we got

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on air, I absolutely loved your
gorgeous book. I read it a course

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and I'm prone to do cover to
cover, take copious notes, and I

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learned from you, so I really
excited to share this really astounding work with

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with our listeners and viewers across the
world. So let's start with the superficiality

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piece, shall we right. One
of the things that you say so well

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in your book is you talk you
talk about purpose, and of course I

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had in the meeting piece for that
matter, are entirely overly and improperly used.

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And you said that most leaders think
of purpose functionally or instrumentally, regarding

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it as a tool they can wield. Just say more about that. So

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I think, first of all,
I was dying to have a one world

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title of my book to be the
right thing to do right. I wanted

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to call it purpose. But the
more I wrote this book, the more

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I researched it, and I went
through eighteen companies and almost two hundred and

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fifty individuals, I discovered that I
couldn't call it purpose because there was such

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a misunderstanding and misuse of the word
purpose. I myself was confused. To

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be honest with you, if you
told me five years ago, Ranja,

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you're going to write a book on
deep purpose or purpose, told you you're

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crazy. No way to me.
Purpose was mission statements more paper. You

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kind of put it out there and
you forgot about it, you didn't do

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much with it, and and so
once in a while paraded, you know,

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you show it too investors and oh, you're having your annual report or

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in some motivational speech, you pull
it out there, you put it on

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the walls. It's like it's decoration. And that to me then I realized

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that I had to get to deep
purpose. I had to work my way

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through superficial purpose first. And even
superficial purpose came in many flavors. So

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I had all these people saying,
oh, yeah, we're purpose driven,

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and I would say, like,
well, show me how. And it

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was really confusing for me, at
least because I saw a number of instances

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where on face value they looked purpose
driven. The more you do it rope

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though, you discovered it wasn't.
And I think it's the sad part of

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the way. They don't get any
of the benefits of having a purpose statement

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and then as a self fulfilling prophecy, because then you say, well,

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it isn't a it's a useless thing
anyway. And that's why I say they

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use it instrumentally because I think there's
a management tool, but more like tokenism

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than anything else. Well, I
like your definition much much better. So

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we will be reading from some of
your book because it's just so beautifully written.

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But I really appreciate that the way
you contrast at what you refer to

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as deep purpose. Leaders think of
purpose as something more fundamental and existential statement

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that expresses the firm's very reason for
being. Rather than simply pursuing a purpose,

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these leaders projected faithfully out onto the
world and in their hands. Purpose

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serves as an organizing principle that shapes
decision making and buying stakeholders to one another.

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That sounds much better to me.
Well, thank you for that,

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but I'll shout out. But I
will say one thing is, as I

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even reflect on that, I feel
I didn't clearly unpack two very key ideas

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that are kind of blended in that. The first is and that's on the

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cover of the book. By the
way, finding a cover of a book

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that is called a purpose is impossible, Trust me, I understand purpose in

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there is very deliberate a compass.
I saw that. I thought the same

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thing before we got on air.
Yeah. That so the first way in

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which people use purpose is as an
orienting system. It's a way that orients

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where we are. It forces us
to ask the question why do we exist?

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Through the why, you are able
to sharpen your strategic positioning about where

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do we want to play, where
do we not want to play? What

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markets do we want to serve,
which stakeholders we want to support? How

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are we thinking about our business in
a multi stakeholder world we're in today.

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It just forces clarity and in stormy
waters, it gives you orientation the way

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it compassed does for ancient mariners.
Onwards. The second part, though,

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which is very distinct, is purpose
as an operating system. And the idea

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here is that purpose is a way
in which things get done, meaning how

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employees relate to the organization, how
your suppliers relate to the organization. It's

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the system we are using to connect
with each other now, the classical system

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of organizing, which has been unfortunately
dominated by an economic perspective, which is

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that the firm is a nexus of
contracts. Right, everyone is contractually engaged

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with the organizations. So I'm in
a contract with you. You know,

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you pay me and I give you
my time. So it's all about contracting

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my time and you create what I
would call a very inert you know,

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alienated organizations when we do that.
And so how do you create an operating

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model where the connection the way you
describe even your own very purpose, if

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you will, I was listening earlier
on is about creating a workplace where people

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feel connected in a different way to
the organization. So the operating system is

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very distinct from the compass IDEA,
Yes, I totally completely see it.

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And as we go, we're going
to keep peeling this. This is just

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there's so much depth that you have
in your book that I of course that's

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what I crave and love and want
to bring out to our listeners and help

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educate the world and bring people along. So you're coming with and you're the

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one, you're the one spearheading us
on. So you go on to say,

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and it just gets better. Is
you actually found a study and then

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dead a study of your own.
Of course, you did with companies that

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have gone through unusually deep with purpose
and that they treated purpose as an existential

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intention that informed every decision practicing process. They adopted purpose as their operating system,

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as you just said, perceiving it
as a vital animating force with near

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spiritual power. That's so important.
Near spiritual power people get freaked out about

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that, and as a result,
they navigated the tumultuous terrain of multi stakeholder

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capitalism for more depthly than most,
increasing value for all stakeholders, including investors

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over the long terms. So there's
really important things there. The spiritual piece

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and the long term piece is all
really important. It doesn't get talked about.

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So, you know, I think
the world the reason I say you

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have to be all in is the
world has become a very cynical place today.

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It has, yeah, especially around
purpose, because so many companies have

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gone through the purpose charade, right, what calls washing. I mean,

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you know, Sarah Knows had a
purpose. By the way, you should

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read Sarah knows this purpose. You
should read en Ron's purpose, should do

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pharmaceuticals purpose? All invoke this kind
of nobility of intention. We are dutiful,

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we are responsible, we want to
take in a better way. Look

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at what's happening to Spotify this week, right, that's a case study to

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watch or Facebook, right when companies
kind of parade a purpose. And unfortunately

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you see a lot of this in
some of the tech sector right now that

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they're suddenly emerging that everyone will been
talking about a purpose but it doesn't really

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mean much. How do we take
purpose seriously and break this cycle of distrust

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to one where people actually buy into
you and you know you If I look

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at the companies, I looked at
large and small companies, and so to

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me it was fascinating. I first
saw it in small companies that start to

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grow fast. You know, the
founder has a belief. And it wasn't

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just the ben and Jerry's and the
Patagonias of the world. Right. I

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was looking at Gotham Green, I
was looking at One Mighty Mail, I

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was looking at Livongo. I'm looking
at companies that are fast growth and when

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the founder either the company grows up
and suddenly they're lamenting the loss of something.

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And I wrote an article called the
Soul of a startup because they were

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calling it a soul full term like, oh, it's something, you know,

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it's a nostalgia about something. I
was good, I said what And

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I discovered after some digging, one
of the pillars they lost was purpose.

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That's how that connection to purpose so
small growing too large, you can see

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that happening. But then I saw
large companies doing it. I mean the

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classic example is Microsoft with such an
adela but I also saw it at Lego.

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I also saw it at Etsy,
So it was not just small companies

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engage in a purpose exercise. M
okay. So that gives us a lot

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more depth. And then there's another
piece here yet still that we haven't talked

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about that we haven't that I haven't
heard many people. Actually I haven't heard

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anybody talk about it this way.
You also add one more element to this

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structor Kalati, and that is this
notion of adding in moral values to the

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purpose piece, the purpose statement.
So that is that when I see that,

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I recognize that by other companies that
I've seen that, I believe our

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practicing and operating through the purpose.
But I've never heard anybody outright talk about

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the importance of embedding moral values into
the purpose piece. Well, I think

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it's really interesting what has happened about
the segregation of economic life from our human

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life. And somewhere along the way, in this pursuit of shareholder value maximization,

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we came to a belief system that
businesses have no role to play in

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anything to do with society. Yet
Lave, I'm neutral. I don't want

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to because that social stuff gets political
very quickly, and we don't want business

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involtant politics, even though they are
heavily involtant politics. But we go through

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this kind of idea. No,
no, no, I'm not taking a

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stance on this loaded issue. I
think society has shown us and individuals that's

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not acceptable. Sitting on the sidelines
is not a stance. Not acceptable.

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Take a position, right. You
saw that a Delta Airlines had to take

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a position when it came to voting
rights or other issues, very very challenging

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issues, you know, And and
companies take a hit for it, right

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Levi Strauss taking a stand on gun
rights, or CBS taking a stand on

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tobacco. So you suddenly start to
see society pushing companies to have a stance

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on these issues. And the word
moral creates makes people queasy because somehow it's

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somehow gotten this bad rap, you
see. I think we have to understand

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that organizations have to come to realize
they have to have both goals. I

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want to deliver profit. I want
to deliver returns from my shareholders. Absolutely

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no, And well let's talk about
that too. Purpose and profit. I

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want to come to that because that's
another interusing source. But along with goals,

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there is duties and responsibilities we have. We're not just tax paying a

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being the laws. It is more
than that, and society expects more of

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us. And you can see the
Business Roundtable rewriting their purpose statement and saying

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we have to take a stance on
sustainability. You can see Larry Fink's influential

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letters. Really, you know,
advising public company CEOs, you've got to

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take a stance, and purpose becomes
a kind of proxy or a litmus test.

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By the way, and also,
are you thinking long term, not

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just short term or just by the
quarter? Yeah? Yeah, So how

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do you bring all these ideas together, my goals, my duties, my

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long term vision, my short term
vision, how do I deal with other

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stakeholders in my community and society?
All this gets kind of wrapped around into

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this purpose idea. And I think
the part I think is important to understand.

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This is one thing I've realized after
finishing a purpose of a company is

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not a purpose statement, Right,
so we kind of somehow and say,

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oh yeah, purpose means having a
purpose statement. And you know, it's

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a really interesting Financial Times It's a
great article. I love the title.

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It was called the Baffling Search for
Purpose in Purpose statements. That's excellent,

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and a cruder version of that was
an academic who wrote an article about more

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than a decade ago called sex lies
and mission Statements. So, you know,

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I think we have to understand that
leaders need to be able to articulate

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a purpose which may have to then
become a statement. So there's a one

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liner that Microsoft, right, best
Buy, and some of them have to

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revise it over time. Best Buy
has been through four Microsoft has been through

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three of them. Johnson and Johnson
has a credo. They've they've kept the

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original credo, but they've evolved it
over. I've seen it. So I

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think the question is how do we
go beyond a statement? How do we

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make it real? How do we
bring it alive? Yeah, that's we're

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going to talk more about that,
and believe it or not, we've already

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got to our first break it.
It goes by so fast. I'm your

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host, Alice Cortez. We run
near with doctor ron Jay Golati. He's

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the author of Deep Purpose, The
Heart and Soul of High Performance Companies.

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We've been talking a bit about his
work and his research and what he's learned

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about companies who practice deep Purpose.
After we're going to hear more about how

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they actually pull it off. Stay
with us, We'll be right back.

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Doctor release Cortez is a management consultant
specializing in meaning and purpose and inspirational speaker

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and author. She helps companies visioneer
for greater purpose among stakeholders and developed purpose

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inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that
elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within

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the workforce. To learn more or
to invite a lease to speak to your

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organization, please visit her at Elise
Cortez dot com. Let's talk about how

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to get your employees working on purpose. This is Working on Purpose with doctor

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Elise Cortez. To reach our program
today or open a conversation with Elise,

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send an email to Elise ali Se
at Elise Cortez dot com. Now back

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to working on Purpose. Thank you
for staying with us, and welcome back

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to the program if you're just joining
us. My guest today is doctor Ron

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J. Colate. He's the professor
at Harvard Business School and an expert in

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leadership, strategy and organizational growth.
He's the author of Deep Purpose, The

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Hard and Soul of High Performance Companies. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortez

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so when I talked about now we
have to talk about how we operate with

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this stuff. So one of the
things that you talked about in your book

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that I again have not heard anybody
address is the notion of how you handle

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trade offs when you're working from purpose. So you talk about as you forge

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tradeoffs, to communicate them by explaining
how they connect to and support the purpose.

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Being explicit. Being explicit builds cohesion, giving meaning to the sacrifices stakeholders

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are making, and further reinforcing the
field of meaning emanating from the purpose,

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which is just gorgeous. Ranch it's
just gorgeous. Well, thank you,

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doctor Cortez. I want to just
say, first things, purpose equals profit.

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Let me be ready. This is
not chatted. This is something that

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I had to come to realize.
A lot of people think of purpose as

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CSR, which is a side show. So I put a foundation in place,

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we do a little outreach in the
community, you know whatever, whatever.

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Once in a while there's a tragedy. We kind of also put out

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some money and we have a MR
budget we have ahead of CSA. What

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was this working from the core of
the business, not in some side show

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on the margins of periphery of the
business. Right now, once you bring

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purpose into the center of what you're
doing, into the very business itself,

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now you're thinking, I have to
make some messy choices. And I have

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an article coming out next week in
the Harvard Business Review which is called the

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messy Messiness of Purpose because people somehow
came out this idea. This is what

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also came about, was people say, oh, purpose means win win,

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I win, and you win,
everybody wins. And some people have gotten

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really offended by this win win notion
because they have come to this notion that

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purposes win win means businesses only do
good things when they make money doing them.

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So show me the money and I'm
happy to write your check. Is

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a grand value in it for me? Is there something in it for me?

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So I'm only going to play in
that sweet spot where social benefit and

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commercial benefit interest And I found and
I'm reacting, and a lot of it

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is think about individuals right now.
You know some people who are purpose less,

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if I may say so, are
people or don't have one yet.

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We tend to go through life reacting
to the circumstances coming at us. We

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make choices based on expeditious kind of
short term immediate thinking. Do I go

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left? Do I go right?
Am I going to eat Chinese or Italian?

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Today? You know? So I'm
kind of like I'm making my choices.

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When we have a purpose, we
become much more proactive. And when

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we communicate that purpose, other people
in our orbit understand us better. And

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then if we use purpose as a
compass when we make trade offs and choices,

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it allows us to be very clear. Look, I'm sorry I can't

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help you, but but I gotta
explain to you this is my purpose right

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now is to do this, and
I can't do anything else for you right

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now. I learn this actually an
interesting way. One of the companies I

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looked at was a company called or
Steed and Orsted is a company that completely

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reinvented itself as a green energy company
in a little more than a decade.

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And the chairman said to me,
he said, you know, purpose allowed

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us to make demands of our stakeholders. Instead of reacting to our stakeholders,

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we could tell them I'm sorry,
this is what I need from you.

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Remember, I'm trying to become and
you open a pathway because I'm not going

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to be green overnight. It's going
to take me a decade to get there,

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so my journey is going to be
messy along the way. So listen,

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cut me some slack and help.
Instead of helped me, partner with

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me, collaborate with me, as
opposed to kind of making my life difficult.

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So how do we create a model
of engagement with the world at large

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around a common belief? And you
know it's when it works, but it

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really works. But I think you
have to convince the skeptics who still can't

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get over the idea. The sounds
just too good to be true. It's

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too good to be true. I'm
sure you know you work with so many

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companies around this topic. I'm sure
one of the first things you ain't got

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it in. Yeah, so I've
been laughed at many times. Oh yes,

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well, but you know, so
here's an essential ingredient which I wanted

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to get to next. It's being
idealistic. So one of the other great

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things you say, and I have
to read this passage because it's just gorgeous,

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is you say deep purpose leaders are
the best kind of idealists, struggling

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endlessly to marry their dream seeking with
the realist hard edge. The injection of

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reality doesn't pollute idealism, but rather
enables people with lofty ideals who actually improve

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human existence. And here's the greatest
paradox of them all, and bending idealisms

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are to accommodate the messiness and imperfection
of commerce. Deep purpose leaders ultimately do

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generate more value for everyone. Understanding
and pursuing such a value creation to the

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fullest can empower more leaders to do
the hard, never ending, but ultimately

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fulfilling work of bringing purpose to life. Yeah, so, you know,

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I have to say that I was
so fortunate in this inquiry to encounter some

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extraordinary leaders, and you know,
extraordinary leaders, And I think for me

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that was really profound because I found
that there is a different way into lead,

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a different way to imagine our organizations. And I want to come to

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the great resignation in a second with
you as well. But you know,

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I mean, I met John or
Linto. John or Linto is the founder

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of One Mighty Mill, which is
a flower mill that is trying to really

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reimagine how we even source flower,
how we process flower, how we then

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produce flower based products that are healthy, good for us, and not causing

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all kinds of other side effec and
at the same time, how are we

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going to be embedded in our community? How do we provide food for the

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schools in our neighborhood which are not
so fortunate? How do we create the

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member and locating where we do?
And that was on his first venture,

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right, he had a first one. He did he found it be lot

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good, So he did be good. And there I mean, I wouldn't

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have met him otherwise, or Satnadella
Microsoft Extra and each of them talks about

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their personal journey into this topic.
They talk about where they came from,

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because if you understand their own personal
story, you understand what they're doing and

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why. Sata says that, you
know, a defining moment for him was

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his son who was born with cerebral
policy and it forced him to develop a

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deep sense of empathy and understanding of
the world. Right. I talked to

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Ni and Chowdery the Sea of Panera, who tragically lost two children to a

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rare genetic disorder, one of whom
died as a teenager, like you know,

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and slowly over a couple of years, how that shaped is so tragedy

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shape some of us where we came
from shapes and that purpose, then says,

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you know, I think I can
create an environment where others thrive.

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I'll do a shout out to you
know, Ariana Huffington with her whole new

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venture called Thrive Global. I mean, the word thrive has so much to

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say. And I think if you
look at the Great Resignation or whatever we're

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calling it, so this is another
one right now, right the Great Resignation.

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My god, people are leaving.
You know what the answer is,

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the answer is we've got to pay
them more. In fact, CNN called

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it the Great Upgrade. What an
upgrade? Okay, fine, I agree

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there are many occupations that desperately need
an upgrade, and I'm so glad we

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are doing that up But I think
people want more than money. I think

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it's completely agree Yeah, completely agree. For sure, everyone wants to get

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paid. But we're not human beings. We're not coin operated monkeys. You

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know, put a coin in me
and our door dance for you. We

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have other aspirations too, And I
think in COVID, we've all come encountered

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death, illness, fear in a
very very close way. And as you

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think about that, what happens is
that we have become we expect more of

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our lives, we expect more of
our work. So I think it's the

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great rethink. To me, what's
going on is the great rethink of life

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and work. Now we leaders,
what are we going to do about that?

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And I actually I'm writing my next
book as well, and we'll be

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addressing that as well. So I
have clients that that literally there are people

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are just flying out the doors,
and so we're working with them to be

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able to address that. So you
talk about four distinct benefits in your book

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that about purpose that I think can
really help, right, And I'm completely

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with you, Dr Kladi. It's
not necessarily about the money. There's so

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many other factors as well. Being
and do you do they care about you?

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And it's this work meaningful my partner's
something that's g's better in the world.

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Right. So do you talk about
four benefits? One of them is

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directional, so you speak to each
of these four forces and kind of bring

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them to life force. So absolutely, and Doctor Quarters, I'm so glad

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that you know you and I are
observing similar dynamics over here. People will

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recognize this. So I talked about
the four benefits because of this purpose profit

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connection. So there's a huge effort
underway among academics, consultants, and even

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finance people about trying to correlate purpose
and performance. Yes, can purpose explain

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ten year, five year pat total
shareholder return? Can it correlate to growth

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and patenting or something or the other? And even how do you measure purpose

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in the first place. That's a
pretty messy endeavor to begin with. I'm

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part of that effort, so I'm
involved in a project where we're going to

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have large sample data on this topic. But I said, okay, I'm

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talking to people. I want to
ask them, how can purpose? Then

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I asked the purpose good for your
business? And then the answer was universe.

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At least the company that I looked
at was resounding yes. I said

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how, And through those conversations I
discovered four pathways. The first is the

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most obvious one. People show up
to work differently if your people buy into

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purpose. But if they buy into
and then I have a whole discussion on

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how do you get them to buy
in? If people buy into purpose,

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then you're going to have an inspired
workforce, not even an engaged, but

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inspired workforce, and that's a whole
different level of productivity. Agreed, the

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second one is also obvious marketing people
have talked about purpose branding that you know,

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customers are increasingly trusting of brands that
stand for something bigger than themselves.

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So we have a reputational element to
it. There's a third element, and

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the third element is is relational how
do you connect to your community of stakeholders

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suppliers, and I have examples of
that. And then the last one is

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the is directional how you use it
as an orienting system. So I wanted

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to carve out and show. Now
there are some companies doing all of them.

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One of them is a Swiss company
called Bula. Nobody here will have

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heard of Buler, but every one
of you has been touched by Bula at

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some point in time because they make
equipment that is the largest provider of equipment

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that processes a lot of the grain
in the world. The milling machines.

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Right, they process lentils right or
by the way, chocolates also, they

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have a chocolate pasta. If you're
eating lent chocolates or Nestli chocolates, you

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know, so you have a lot
of products that are touched by them and

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pasta pasta processing machines. So they
if you eat pasta, most likely you've

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been touched by them. And they
said, okay, First of all,

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food is a major contributor to greenhouse
gas emissions. Okay, we're gonna make

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our machines more efficient. So there
isn't there's less waste, and we'll make

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them more energy efficient. But all
impact is going to be fractional. The

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biggest energy footprint of food comes from
besides, of course vegetarian non we we

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will go to the plant based protein
is a different conversation is waste? Now?

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We because of our place in the
food value chain, we know all

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of the players. Every one of
them buys our machines. Okay, we're

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gonna bring them all together. First, what's our purpose? Our employees better

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buying to our purpose, We're here
to make the world a better innovating for

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a better world. How are we
going to do that. We're going to

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bring our whole value chain together,
everybody together for a convening event, and

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we'll talk about why it's important and
what can we all do about it.

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We're gonna bring in experts. So
how do you engage broader I think to

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understand that and then drive the fall? Is it going to help their performance.

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Absolutely, So I think we have
to recognize that purpose is good for

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business well and then yes, and
then we got to we have to actually

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learn how to say that well.
Right. So one of the other great

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things that you talk about is the
importance of communicating the purpose, and just

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the way that you describe that so
compelling. So would you say a little

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bit more about the way these deep
purpose leaders describe their purpose? So I

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thought it was fascinating not to what
is because you know, I can talk

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about strategy, I can talk about
my goals, I can talk about a

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lot of things. I even talk
about my mission statement, and I canna

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talk about vision statement, and I
can talk about culture. How do you

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talk about purpose, especially further down
in the organization. And there's a there's

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data showing there's an exponential decay in
purpose understanding in organizations, done by a

404
00:29:56.200 --> 00:29:59.720
colleague of mine, George Seta Fim, as well as by Mackenzie showing this

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financial decay in organizations when it comes
to purpose. And so you say,

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Okay, what's the leader's job?
How are you going to communicate this?

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Because people I saw you are cynical
saying oh God. Another one of the

408
00:30:10.599 --> 00:30:17.400
slogans and usually end you want a
purpose statement that is expansive and ambitious and

409
00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:21.799
as aspirational. But at the same
time, the more inspiring it is,

410
00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:27.640
the less concrete it is. How
do you connect inspiring, expansive with concrete

411
00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:36.279
And I found that the masterful leaders
are amazing communicators and they do it through

412
00:30:36.359 --> 00:30:41.039
storytelling. They understand what we academics
like to call a narrative, right,

413
00:30:41.079 --> 00:30:45.839
so they build a narrative, They
build a story and they laid out as

414
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:49.400
a story in their personal story.
So you know, if you read an

415
00:30:49.480 --> 00:30:53.920
article by Intranui in the Harbor District
you last year where she talks about what

416
00:30:53.960 --> 00:30:57.680
she did at Pepsi, Yeah,
you know, she tells it as a

417
00:30:57.720 --> 00:31:02.880
story, like about her story and
how growing up as a child, you

418
00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:04.240
know, there was no water in
the house and her mother had to get

419
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:07.839
up at three am to get one
bucket for each child, so everyone had

420
00:31:07.880 --> 00:31:11.519
one bucket of water. And what
does that mean? Growing up? Means

421
00:31:11.599 --> 00:31:17.160
that we have to really think about
water conservation, especially in water scarce regions.

422
00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:21.880
And one of the biggest consumers of
water is companies like Epsy. So

423
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:25.599
how do we need to think about
the environment, about community, What is

424
00:31:25.599 --> 00:31:27.720
the role we play that's a self
story. Then it's like us, we

425
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:33.079
as a collective, we need to
do something about it. And one of

426
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:37.440
the leaders at PEPSI at the time
was Frank Cooper, and Frank told me

427
00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:44.279
he said it was complete surround sound
performance. So I think we have to

428
00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:52.400
understand how we engage with our community. And purpose is good for business,

429
00:31:52.400 --> 00:31:56.039
but how you communicate it now because
people have to buy it now. Even

430
00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:59.920
then I have to say, Doctor
Waters, I thought I had it crack.

431
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:02.240
They told a good story, but
I learn discovered another wrinkle to this,

432
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:07.839
which was surprising to me, and
I was a little confused at first.

433
00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:14.240
A lot of them would make their
employees start to do exercises about asking

434
00:32:14.279 --> 00:32:20.359
about their own personal life purpose.
Another leader that I got to know was

435
00:32:20.400 --> 00:32:22.839
Matt Brightfelder, who was at black
Rock at the time and now he's the

436
00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:30.039
head of HR at Apollo, and
Matt had this exercise rolled out where everyone

437
00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:34.960
had to think about their personal purpose. And I saw this actually also at

438
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:38.880
Microsoft. Yes, Yes, And
then I started at KPMG, where they

439
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:42.559
had every employee to write out why
do I come to work? And I

440
00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:45.880
was like, why that about company? Stuff, he said, and Matt

441
00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:51.839
expladed beautifully to me. He said, people will only resonate with a company

442
00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:55.880
purpose when they themselves feel a purpose
in their own lives. Yes, yes,

443
00:32:57.480 --> 00:33:01.319
unlock. Oh, I'm not going
to let you go. You know

444
00:33:01.400 --> 00:33:05.000
that. Right. We've got to
grab a quick break, but I am

445
00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:07.039
not letting you go. You can
run, but you can't hide. I'm

446
00:33:07.079 --> 00:33:10.000
very fast on my feet. I'm
your host, Doctor Elease Cortez on the

447
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:14.440
air with doctor Ronze Glati. He's
the author of Deep Purpose, The Heart

448
00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:17.440
and Soul of High Performance Companies.
We've been talking about the gist of his

449
00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:21.920
book and his work after the Breaker
to talk more about how to treat those

450
00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:24.440
human beings that are inside the organization
powering the purpose. See what this will

451
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:30.680
be right back. Doctor Release Cortez
is a management consultant specializing in meaning and

452
00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:36.599
purpose and inspirational speaker and author.
She helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among

453
00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:44.400
stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and
meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,

454
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:49.039
and commitment within the workforce. To
learn more or to invite a Lease

455
00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:52.599
to speak to your organization, please
visit her at a Lease Cortez dot com.

456
00:33:52.720 --> 00:34:04.480
Let's talk about how to get your
employees working on purpose. This is

457
00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:08.199
working on Purpose with doctor Elise Cortez. To reach our program today or open

458
00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:15.119
a conversation with a lease, send
an email to Elise ali se at Elise

459
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:22.360
Cortez dot com. Now back to
working on Purpose. Thanks for staying with

460
00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:24.239
us, and welcome back to working
on purpose if you're just learning the program.

461
00:34:24.280 --> 00:34:27.960
My guest today is doctor ron Zay
Glati. He's the professor at a

462
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:31.400
Harvard Business school and an expert on
leadership strategy and organizational growth. Is the

463
00:34:31.480 --> 00:34:35.840
author of De Purpose, The Heart
and Soul of High Performance Companies. I'm

464
00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:38.119
your host, doctor Elise Cortez.
So part of the reason that I am

465
00:34:38.199 --> 00:34:43.039
so attracted to this field on doctor
Golati, is is that to me,

466
00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:47.519
the pursuit and as it is so
aspirational, right, it really calls us

467
00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:52.039
to be our best when we when
we go down this purpose path. And

468
00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:53.840
and so it's really hard work,
right, This is this is not for

469
00:34:53.880 --> 00:34:57.199
the faint of heart. And one
of the things that you talk about in

470
00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:00.159
your book that I think is really
critical is each talk about how deep purpose

471
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:06.719
leaders find organizational purpose to team members
personal growth and development and just how riveted

472
00:35:06.760 --> 00:35:12.719
they are on celebrating this the uniqueness
of each human being and elevating that.

473
00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:15.159
It's just it's beautiful the way you
talk about that. So will you give

474
00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:21.519
us more depth into that view on
how purposes are helping steward the growth of

475
00:35:21.559 --> 00:35:27.519
their employees. So, you know, I have to say. Kathleen Hogan,

476
00:35:27.639 --> 00:35:34.239
the HRRO of Microsoft, said it
really well. She describes it as

477
00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:37.519
the following. She says, you
don't really work for Microsoft until Microsoft works

478
00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:44.840
for you. Oh, and you
have to reflect on that statement because I

479
00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:47.000
at first was confused of what that
means, because I thought, oh,

480
00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:51.800
what even Microsoft works for you?
And the idea was we want to elevate

481
00:35:52.119 --> 00:35:58.000
your life, right, and if
we can't help elevate your life, then

482
00:35:58.079 --> 00:36:02.079
you know you shouldn't really be here. Now ask yourself what's behind that?

483
00:36:02.199 --> 00:36:06.440
So the first thing is I want
Now if you say I want to climb

484
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:07.760
out everyone and I want to go
bicycling and I don't want to show to

485
00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:09.719
work, then that's not for you. This is not a free for all

486
00:36:09.760 --> 00:36:13.480
that you know, we're giving you
a blank check and don't need to show

487
00:36:13.519 --> 00:36:16.679
up to work no, we want
to align. Would we do our purpose

488
00:36:16.760 --> 00:36:21.320
with your purpose? And we're going
to do our best to bring connection there.

489
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:25.400
Our job is to empower with the
world through technology. If you have

490
00:36:25.480 --> 00:36:30.360
an idea of something you believe,
right, even if it doesn't make Microsoft

491
00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:36.639
much money, we'll consider it.
So John Kahan, one of the employees

492
00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:39.199
of Microsoft, had a very tragedy. He lost a child to sin and

493
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:43.280
so his team on their own got
together and that you know, we need

494
00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:46.199
to find a way to help researchers
understand Sin's better. And they found that

495
00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:50.719
the data for it was fragmented all
over the world. They use of course,

496
00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:52.400
Microsoft is zero and they were going
to bring all the data together,

497
00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:57.280
put it out there in public source
to the children's hospital and see Island,

498
00:36:57.320 --> 00:37:00.360
said researchers, here is the data
to help you. Now that was the

499
00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:05.719
pure I would say a social project. But they also are health employees discover

500
00:37:05.800 --> 00:37:12.599
commercial projects that are connected to their
personal being, right, and and how

501
00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:16.039
do you do that? So it's
about finding commercial and social and the intersection

502
00:37:16.039 --> 00:37:20.239
of the two. Now, Satia
would be killing you when he said that.

503
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:23.119
He said himself, he are not
kidding the shareholders matter. We can

504
00:37:23.159 --> 00:37:27.760
only do these things that we are
also delivering for shareholders. Right, So

505
00:37:27.920 --> 00:37:31.559
I want to go back to this
confusion that purpose ahaw means I am sorry

506
00:37:31.639 --> 00:37:37.000
not making money because I'm so busy
going stuff, because my proposes make the

507
00:37:37.000 --> 00:37:45.119
world better. I think it's also
about human aspiration. I firmly believe now,

508
00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:52.800
and I'm really feeling that the one
positive outcome of COVID is it's elevated

509
00:37:52.840 --> 00:38:00.760
our expectations of life. Yes,
oh yes, and in that process,

510
00:38:00.840 --> 00:38:09.760
and life includes work, And so
I am pleased for those people who are

511
00:38:09.880 --> 00:38:15.840
willing to say, if this job
doesn't speak to me, this company doesn't

512
00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:21.159
speak to me, I'm not going
to belong here. And Neil Young said

513
00:38:21.159 --> 00:38:23.199
it beautifully. He said leave.
I don't want to pick on Spotify.

514
00:38:23.199 --> 00:38:28.400
I don't know enough about it,
but look at the words it's gonna eat

515
00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:34.039
your soul. Right. So you
know, you start to see people making

516
00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:37.679
those kinds of statements, right,
saying that, hey, you etould expect

517
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:42.519
more out of the place you work
and you better be feel that personal connect.

518
00:38:43.480 --> 00:38:46.519
How do I feel a sense of
pride of where I work? Right?

519
00:38:46.679 --> 00:38:49.920
And how do I feel more engaged? Now? This is not I

520
00:38:49.960 --> 00:38:52.159
want to be very clear. This
is you can say this is just general

521
00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:55.039
Diffuse, I work for the World
Wildlife Fund, so I feel good about

522
00:38:55.079 --> 00:38:58.920
myself and so all the Red Cross
and I feel go. No, it

523
00:38:59.000 --> 00:39:05.840
also translates it what I do every
day. So is the organization trusting enough

524
00:39:05.880 --> 00:39:10.679
to empower me to feel like I
am doing something meaningful in the actual work

525
00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:16.440
I also do. So it's across
the board. Does that make sense?

526
00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:21.119
I mean it does. And you
actually refer you the phrase that you use

527
00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:25.039
is caring leaders. You're actually referring
to them as caring. I've had this

528
00:39:25.280 --> 00:39:29.000
This show has been on air for
seven years now, and so I've had

529
00:39:29.000 --> 00:39:32.320
amazing conversations with people. We've treated
a lot of subjects, including, of

530
00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:37.039
course the importance of developing emotional intelligence
and you know, doing using that in

531
00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:40.559
your leadership, and also this notion
of job purposing right and social purpose in

532
00:39:40.599 --> 00:39:44.440
your in your job, in your
work. So yeah, I mean,

533
00:39:44.599 --> 00:39:47.960
I really appreciate your perspective that COVID
has elevated what we expect of life,

534
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:52.840
and I want to be part of
champion that higher, which is why I

535
00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:54.880
bring people like you on my show. Well, thank you, I must

536
00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:59.960
say, caring leadership is not my
phrase. It comes from another really impressed

537
00:40:00.039 --> 00:40:04.199
an individual I had a chance to
meet, and that was Pete Carroll Cattle

538
00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:07.000
Seahawks. Okay, they didn't have
a good season this year, but we'll

539
00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:13.599
let that pass. But his entire
model of coaching when he began doing it

540
00:40:13.639 --> 00:40:16.400
was quite radical in the NFL.
Now other coaches also do it. And

541
00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:22.280
it was this simple idea that I
care about you as a person. You're

542
00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:25.159
not just a worker bee, You're
not a number, you're not a player,

543
00:40:25.840 --> 00:40:29.440
You're not like if you and by
the way, doesn't mean he's not

544
00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:31.360
demanding. If you don't deliver,
he's going to trade you or let you

545
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:37.199
lose. But he said, while
you're here, I'm not going to just

546
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:40.239
be directing you. I actually want
to know you as a whole human being.

547
00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:46.199
Are you? Why are you here
on this planet? And that's engaging

548
00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:52.559
in that personal dialogue invites them to
think about their own purpose and builds a

549
00:40:52.679 --> 00:40:57.639
deeper connection with your coach. So, if we are going to be leaders

550
00:40:57.639 --> 00:41:01.079
as coaches, which everyone talks about, what does it really mean? And

551
00:41:01.400 --> 00:41:06.679
I think this notion that you want
to get to know people as whole human

552
00:41:06.719 --> 00:41:13.039
beings we all want to feel like
we are valued for who we are,

553
00:41:14.000 --> 00:41:19.280
not for just the job we do. Absolutely, and I know this from

554
00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:22.519
the years of work that I've done
an employee engagement work, Surveying that and

555
00:41:22.559 --> 00:41:27.440
studying that is most the most critical, the most commonly referred to element of

556
00:41:27.559 --> 00:41:30.920
what drives you know, engagement,
connection, et cetera, is being valued

557
00:41:30.920 --> 00:41:36.039
and appreciated. And I must tell
you I wrote an article published about a

558
00:41:36.039 --> 00:41:38.639
month ago in the Harvard Business Troop
you call what do your Black Executives Really

559
00:41:38.679 --> 00:41:45.360
Want? And it was co authored
with my good friend and colleague Frank Cooper,

560
00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:55.360
who's the chief marketing officer at black
Rock, And we interviewed several dozen

561
00:41:57.000 --> 00:42:01.360
young black professionals, all of whom
came out of elite background, elite universities,

562
00:42:01.360 --> 00:42:07.039
and an elite company's the best of
the best, meaning every company is

563
00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:10.639
doing d EI and doing all that. And I was shocking for us to

564
00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:17.920
hear that very few of them would
recommend their place of employer to any other

565
00:42:17.960 --> 00:42:23.440
black professional to come as work.
And one of the themes there were several

566
00:42:23.480 --> 00:42:28.760
we talked about, and I hope
you'll read it. I would love to

567
00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:34.800
be it. Yeah, was this
idea around caring, m does my boss

568
00:42:34.840 --> 00:42:37.920
really care about me as a person? What are my aspirations? What are

569
00:42:37.960 --> 00:42:40.639
my ambitions? What are my constraints? What do I need help with?

570
00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:47.800
You talk about we use we use
all the right words mentoring, support.

571
00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:54.679
The caring is a very simple and
yet a very difficult idea. It is

572
00:42:54.800 --> 00:43:00.519
it so is all right, So
we're coming closely at the edge of the

573
00:43:00.519 --> 00:43:01.840
show. And the last thing we
have to talk about, which is so

574
00:43:01.960 --> 00:43:05.920
critical towards the end of your book
here is you say, as powerful as

575
00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:10.079
purpose is, when fully mobilized,
it remains fragile. So how do we

576
00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:15.400
how do we steward this beautiful thing
called purpose? Deep purpose? So look,

577
00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:17.840
it happens to us individually too,
right. We may have a purpose

578
00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:21.440
in our lives, but then we
get derated. If something happens in our

579
00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:22.400
lives, we get whack left,
right, center, or we have an

580
00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:24.960
opportunity comes up and we say,
oh, I forget the purpose. I

581
00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:29.760
gotta go for that. So we
all have our kind of hiccups and world

582
00:43:29.800 --> 00:43:32.880
blocks or whatever you want to.
But companies are found fascinating and I actually

583
00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:38.199
saw this in iconic companies that once
upon a time war, you know,

584
00:43:38.599 --> 00:43:44.559
put on a Pedestine Johnson and Johnson
like Trido. And then you have about

585
00:43:44.599 --> 00:43:49.760
twenty years ago, a decade of
scandal, you know, shutdown of factories,

586
00:43:49.960 --> 00:43:53.199
the CEO having to apologize in front
of Congress, fines and you're like,

587
00:43:53.360 --> 00:43:58.519
what went wrong? Oh, you
look at Boeing and the seven thirty

588
00:43:58.559 --> 00:44:02.559
seven Max scandal. Boeing was a
really proud engineering company on the frontier of

589
00:44:02.639 --> 00:44:08.079
safety and aviation. What went wrong? And so everyone's like, oh,

590
00:44:08.079 --> 00:44:10.400
it's the culture, you know,
must be the culture, and culture,

591
00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:15.239
yes, for sure, but I
think if you really prove deeper, it

592
00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:22.039
was also kind of you lose your
way purpose and so and I also saw

593
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:27.480
this especially in founder lad company,
where the founder who personifies a company and

594
00:44:27.519 --> 00:44:30.400
then leaves and in some cases they
come back. And when they come back,

595
00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:32.360
you know, look at it.
Howard should said when he came back

596
00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:37.639
to Starbucks many years ago, he
said, Starbucks has lost its soul.

597
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:40.159
Yeah. Steve Jobs when he came
back, had the same thing to say

598
00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:50.400
as well. So there's something about
organizations that is this kind of elusive but

599
00:44:50.679 --> 00:44:54.920
profound thing that we might call having
a purpose, and that becomes an orienting

600
00:44:54.960 --> 00:45:00.159
system I want to remind you again, purpose is profit, it's not and

601
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:04.880
I think I wish people would understand
that that. Look, here's a way

602
00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:09.360
to drive growth, achieve great success, and build a humane work environment where

603
00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:13.480
people want to come to work.
Right, what's wrong with that? Sounds

604
00:45:13.480 --> 00:45:15.719
good to me? And I think
you have been doing that. I think

605
00:45:15.800 --> 00:45:19.920
is as I kind of look at
what you've been doing. That's kind of

606
00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:24.320
the path you've been on, trying
to get organizations to transform themselves into the

607
00:45:24.639 --> 00:45:29.239
workplace where everybody wants to come to
work. Yes, that's what I've been

608
00:45:29.320 --> 00:45:32.840
up to. And Buna did that. I saw Bulah In just a couple

609
00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:37.679
of years of doing this kind of
purpose efforts, they became among the top

610
00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:42.719
most desirable places to work in Switzerland. It works, I know, I

611
00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:46.559
believe you. It works. I
mean, so we're at the end already,

612
00:45:46.599 --> 00:45:49.960
doctor Glati. It happens, it
goes by so fast. You know.

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That shows us to do right people
across the world and they are out

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00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:54.920
to join us to help develop workplaces
where people actually want to come to work,

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00:45:54.960 --> 00:45:58.199
do their best, and we do
business at better as the world.

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00:45:58.480 --> 00:46:01.400
What would you like to leave us
with today? I hope all of us

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00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:06.880
should expect more out of our lives. We should expect more out of our

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00:46:06.920 --> 00:46:12.440
work. Don't sell yourself short.
As one young person I interviewed, who's

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00:46:12.480 --> 00:46:15.199
a deep purpose leader, said to
me, I had to ask myself what

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00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:20.679
is my time worth? And the
moment I did the math and I said

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to myself, that's crazy. I'm
selling myself short. And then she said,

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00:46:23.920 --> 00:46:25.880
what's the right number? And she
said, there is no number.

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How do I know? Allow myself
to aspire to make a difference in the

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00:46:35.320 --> 00:46:39.000
world, have an impact, and
of course be paid well. So I'm

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00:46:39.039 --> 00:46:45.400
not saying it's not getting paid practical
idealism. How can we reconcile those things

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00:46:45.400 --> 00:46:47.320
in our lives? And I hope
we expect more out of our jobs,

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00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:52.519
more out of our lives, and
use purpose as the way into it smashing

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00:46:52.559 --> 00:46:55.440
way to finish articalardi. I thank
you so much for joining me. You

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00:46:55.480 --> 00:47:00.119
are a gift to the World's so
nice of you to say thank you.

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00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:04.559
I'm really grateful for the opportunity to
share my ideas here and I feel really

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00:47:04.599 --> 00:47:08.599
fortunate to have had students who nudged
me to study this topic and really nudged

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00:47:08.639 --> 00:47:13.039
me to do that and for all
the leaders who shared their time with me

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00:47:13.199 --> 00:47:17.320
to share their stories. Absolutely absolutely
here here. If you want to learn

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00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:21.119
more about doctor ron Ja Glatty,
his books or the work he does,

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00:47:21.159 --> 00:47:23.079
you can start. There's two places
I'm going to send you. One is

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00:47:23.119 --> 00:47:28.199
his book site, which is deep
Purpose dot net. The other is his

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00:47:28.280 --> 00:47:30.559
own personal site, ron Jaglotti dot
com. Let me spell that for you,

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00:47:30.960 --> 00:47:37.719
It's r A n j A y
g u lati dot com. Last

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00:47:37.719 --> 00:47:39.199
week, if you missed the live
show, you can always catch we recorded

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00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:45.000
podcast We Run There with doctor Nathaniel
Zinser talking about his book The Competent Mind,

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00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:47.920
A battle Tested Guy to Unshakable Performance. Next week, we'll be on

642
00:47:47.960 --> 00:47:52.599
there at Lorie Van talking about the
real problems of burnout in the workplace and

643
00:47:52.599 --> 00:47:55.440
how many employees in this period of
the Great Resignation are looking for companies to

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00:47:55.480 --> 00:47:59.320
work for who will honor their well
being. See you there. Remember that

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00:47:59.360 --> 00:48:04.199
works at least therbal life, So
let's work on Purpose. We hope you've

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00:48:04.280 --> 00:48:07.079
enjoyed this week's program. Be sure
to tune in too. Working on Purpose

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00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:13.679
featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortez
each week on the Voice America Empowerment Channel.

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00:48:14.360 --> 00:48:20.920
Together, we'll create a world where
business operates conscientiously, Leadership inspires impassioned

649
00:48:20.920 --> 00:48:24.960
performance, and employees are fulfilled in
work that provides the meaning and purpose they

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00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:29.639
crave. See you there. Let's
work on purpose.