High-Performance Companies Operate from Deep Purpose

WEBVTT

1
00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:09.439
What's working on purpose anyway? Each
week we ponder the answer to this question.

2
00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:15.119
People ache for meaning and purpose at
work to contribute their talents passionately and

3
00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:20.280
know their lives really matter. They
crave being part of an organization that inspires

4
00:00:20.320 --> 00:00:25.320
them and helps them grow into realizing
their highest potential business can be such a

5
00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:29.719
force for good in the world,
elevating humanity. In our program, we

6
00:00:29.800 --> 00:00:34.799
provide guidance and inspiration to help usher
in this world we all want working on

7
00:00:34.880 --> 00:00:41.920
purpose. Now Here is your host, doctor Elise Cortes. Welcome back to

8
00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:44.479
the Working a Purpose Program. Thanks
for tuning in again this week. I'm

9
00:00:44.479 --> 00:00:47.079
your host, Doctor Release Cortes.
Join you a lie from Dallas, which

10
00:00:47.159 --> 00:00:49.439
is home base for me. If
you don't know me yet, I'm a

11
00:00:49.479 --> 00:00:54.439
management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose, organizational lago therapist, inspirational speaker,

12
00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:58.240
social scientist, and author. My
team and I help companies discover and articulate

13
00:00:58.280 --> 00:01:02.079
their purpose to embed it into their
culture operations. We work with forward thinking

14
00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:07.079
or forward reaching organizations to develop inspirational
leaders who create cultures where people actually want

15
00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:10.040
to come to work and do their
best, and we provide programs like the

16
00:01:10.040 --> 00:01:14.319
grab your gusto that enable individual team
members to discover and unleash their passion and

17
00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:18.319
purpose at work to catalyze fulfillment,
engagement, and productivity. You can learn

18
00:01:18.319 --> 00:01:22.120
more about us and how we can
work together at eliscortes dot com. With

19
00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:26.280
us today is doctor Ronja Gulat.
He's a professor at Harvard Business School and

20
00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:30.680
an expert on leadership, strategy and
organizational growth. Until recently, he chaired

21
00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:34.400
the Advanced Management Program, the school's
flagship Senior Leader executive program. He has

22
00:01:34.439 --> 00:01:38.480
authored seven books, including Deep Purpose, The Heart and Soul of High Performance

23
00:01:38.519 --> 00:01:42.599
Companies, which we'll be talking about
in today's program. He joins us today

24
00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:48.079
from Boston. Doctor Galani Galati,
Welcome to Working on Purpose. Thank you,

25
00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:49.879
doctor Cortez. It's a pleasure to
be here with you today, and

26
00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:53.640
I'm delighted to have a chance to
talk to you and your listener. Thank

27
00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:57.000
you well. As you know,
as we spoke at that before we got

28
00:01:57.079 --> 00:02:00.879
on air, I absolutely loved your
gorgeous book. I read it of courses

29
00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:02.879
I'm prone to do cover to cover, take copious notes, and I learned

30
00:02:02.920 --> 00:02:07.799
from you, so I really excited
to share this really astounding work with with

31
00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:12.759
our listeners and viewers across the world. So let's start with the superficiality piece,

32
00:02:12.919 --> 00:02:15.439
shall we. Right. One of
the things that you say so well

33
00:02:15.479 --> 00:02:19.879
in your book is you talk about
purpose, and of course I had in

34
00:02:19.919 --> 00:02:23.439
the meeting piece for that matter,
are entirely overly and improperly used. And

35
00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:28.520
you said that most leaders think of
purpose functionally or instrumentally, regarding it as

36
00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:32.080
a tool they can wield. Just
say more about that. So I think,

37
00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:35.960
first of all, I was dying
to have a one word title of

38
00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:40.680
my book to be the right thing
to do right. I wanted to call

39
00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:45.400
it purpose. But the more I
wrote this book, the more I researched

40
00:02:45.439 --> 00:02:49.960
it, and I went through eighteen
companies and almost two hundred and fifty individuals,

41
00:02:50.400 --> 00:02:54.039
I discovered that I couldn't call it
purpose because there was such a misunderstanding

42
00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:59.800
and misuse of the word purpose.
I myself was confused. To be honest

43
00:02:59.840 --> 00:03:01.479
with you, if you told me
five years ago, Ranja, you're going

44
00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:04.919
to write a book on deep purpose
or purpose, ver I told you,

45
00:03:04.919 --> 00:03:08.800
You're crazy. No way. To
me. Purpose was mission statements more paper.

46
00:03:09.159 --> 00:03:12.719
You kind of put it out there
and you forgot about it. You

47
00:03:12.759 --> 00:03:15.639
didn't do much with it, and
so you once in a while parade it.

48
00:03:15.639 --> 00:03:19.759
You know, you showed two investors
and oh you're having an annual report,

49
00:03:20.319 --> 00:03:23.240
or in some motivational speech, you
pull it out there, you put

50
00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:28.360
it on the walls. It's like
it's decoration. And that to me then

51
00:03:28.400 --> 00:03:30.199
I realized that I had to get
to deep purpose. I had to work

52
00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:36.919
my way through superficial purpose first.
And even superficial purpose came in many flavors.

53
00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:39.159
So I had all these people saying, oh, yeah, we're purpose

54
00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:42.080
driven, and I would say,
like, well, show me how.

55
00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:46.800
And it was really confusing for me
at least because I saw a number of

56
00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:52.280
instances where on face value, they
look to purpose driven. The more you

57
00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:57.400
do it drove though, you discovered
it wasn't. And I think it's the

58
00:03:57.439 --> 00:04:00.199
sad part, though, is they
don't get any of the benefits of having

59
00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:03.360
a purpose and then as a self
fulfilling prophecy, because then you say,

60
00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:06.719
well it isn't. It's a useless
thing anyway. And that's why I say

61
00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:13.199
they use it instrumentally because they think
it's a management tool, but more n

62
00:04:13.319 --> 00:04:17.279
tookenism than anything else. Well,
I like your definition much much better.

63
00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:20.319
So we will be reading from some
of your book because it's just so beautifully

64
00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:25.160
written. But I really appreciate that
the way you contrast that what you refer

65
00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:29.079
to as deep purpose. Leaders think
of purpose as something more fundamental, an

66
00:04:29.160 --> 00:04:33.000
existential statement that expresses the firm's very
reason for being. Rather than simply pursuing

67
00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:38.040
a purpose, these leaders project it
faithfully out onto the world and in their

68
00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:42.879
hands. Purpose serves as an organizing
principle that shapes decision making and bind stakeholders

69
00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:46.120
to one another. That sounds much
better to me. Well, thank you

70
00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:49.079
for that, but I'll shout out. But I will say one thing is,

71
00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:57.000
as I even reflect on that,
I feel I didn't clearly unpack two

72
00:04:57.240 --> 00:05:00.920
very key ideas that are kind of
blended in there. And one the first

73
00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:03.680
is and that's on the cover of
the book. By the way, finding

74
00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:08.360
a cover of a book that is
called a purpose is impossible. Trust me,

75
00:05:08.439 --> 00:05:15.480
I understand purpose in there is very
deliberate a compass. I saw that.

76
00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:18.279
I thought the same thing before we
got on air. Yeah. So

77
00:05:18.360 --> 00:05:24.639
the first way in which people use
purpose is as an orienting system. It's

78
00:05:24.680 --> 00:05:28.120
a way that orients where we are. It forces us to ask the question

79
00:05:28.199 --> 00:05:30.959
why do we exist? Through the
why you are able to sharpen your strategic

80
00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:33.720
positioning a what where do we want
to play? Where do we not want

81
00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:38.399
to play? What markets do we
want to serve? Which stakeholders we want

82
00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:42.439
to support? How are we thinking
about our business in a multi stakeholder world

83
00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:46.639
we're in today. It just forces
clarity and in stormy waters, it gives

84
00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:50.000
you orientation, the way a compass
does for ancient mariners. Onwards. The

85
00:05:50.040 --> 00:05:54.720
second part, though, which is
very distinct, is purpose as an operating

86
00:05:54.759 --> 00:06:00.279
system. And the idea here is
that purpose is a way in which things

87
00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:05.079
get done, meaning how employees relate
to the organization, how your suppliers relate

88
00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:10.600
to the organization. It's the system
we are using to connect with each other

89
00:06:10.680 --> 00:06:15.800
now, the classical system of organizing, which has been unfortunately dominated by an

90
00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:21.439
economic perspective, which is that the
firm is a nexus of contracts. Right,

91
00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:26.000
everyone is contractually engaged with the organization. So I'm in a contract with

92
00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:28.560
you. You know, you pay
me and I give you my time.

93
00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:32.399
So it's all about contracting my time
and you create what I would call our

94
00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:39.519
very inert you know, alienated organizations
when we do that. And so how

95
00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:44.600
do you create an operating model where
the connection the way you described even your

96
00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:47.279
own very purpose if you will,
I was listening early on, is about

97
00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:53.000
creating a workplace where people feel connected
in a different way to the organization.

98
00:06:53.079 --> 00:06:58.680
So the operating system is very distinct
from the compass IDEA, Yes, I

99
00:06:58.720 --> 00:07:01.000
totally completely see. And as we
go, we're going to keep peeling this.

100
00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:03.160
This is just there's so much depth
that you have in your book that

101
00:07:03.199 --> 00:07:06.000
I of course that's what I what
I crave and love and want to bring

102
00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:10.199
out to our listeners and help educate
the world and bring people along. So

103
00:07:10.439 --> 00:07:13.199
you're coming with and you're the one, you're the one spearheading us on.

104
00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:16.319
So you go on to say,
and it just gets better. Is you

105
00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:21.160
actually found a study and the data
study of your own of course you did

106
00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:26.920
with companies that have gone through unusually
deep with purpose and that they and that

107
00:07:26.959 --> 00:07:31.279
they treated purpose as an existential intention
that informed every decision, practice and process.

108
00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:34.480
They adopted purpose as their operating system. Actually just said, perceiving it

109
00:07:34.519 --> 00:07:40.240
as a vital animating force with near
spiritual power. That's so important. Near

110
00:07:40.279 --> 00:07:43.360
spiritual power people get freaked out about
that, and as a result, they

111
00:07:43.399 --> 00:07:48.160
navigated the tumultuous terrain of multi stakeholder
capitalism for more depthtely than most, increasing

112
00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:53.360
value for all stakeholders including investors over
the long term. So there's really important

113
00:07:53.360 --> 00:07:57.279
things there. The spiritual peace and
the long term piece is all really important

114
00:07:57.279 --> 00:08:00.199
and doesn't get talked about. So, you know, I think the well,

115
00:08:00.519 --> 00:08:03.199
the reason I say you have to
be all in is the world has

116
00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:07.759
become a very cynical place today.
It has especially around purpose because so many

117
00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:13.439
companies have gone through the purpose charat
right, or what we call washing.

118
00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:18.199
I need you know Thenos had a
purpose. By the way, you should

119
00:08:18.199 --> 00:08:22.680
read Thetnos's purpose. You should read
Enron's purpose. You should do pharmaceuticals purpose.

120
00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:28.839
We all invoke this kind of nobility
of intention. We are beautiful,

121
00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:31.919
we are responsible, we wanted to
in a better way. Look at what's

122
00:08:31.919 --> 00:08:37.559
happening to Spotify this week, right, that's a case study to watch or

123
00:08:37.559 --> 00:08:41.960
Facebook right, when companies kind of
parade a purpose. And unfortunately you see

124
00:08:43.000 --> 00:08:45.480
a lot of this in some of
the tech sector right now that they are

125
00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:48.759
suddenly emerging that everyone we've been talking
about a purpose, but it doesn't really

126
00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:56.360
mean much. How do we take
purpose seriously and break this cycle of distrust

127
00:08:56.960 --> 00:09:01.000
to one where people actually buy into
you and you know you If I look

128
00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:03.720
at the companies, I looked at
large and small companies, and so to

129
00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:07.000
me it was fascinating. I first
saw it in small companies that start to

130
00:09:07.039 --> 00:09:11.440
grow fast. You know, the
founder has a belief. And it wasn't

131
00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:15.320
just the ben and Jerry's and the
Patagonias of the world. Right, I

132
00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:20.360
was looking at Gotham Green, I
was looking at One Mighty Male, I

133
00:09:20.399 --> 00:09:24.919
was looking at Livongo. I'm looking
at companies that are fast growth and when

134
00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:28.720
the founder either the company grows up
and suddenly they're lamenting the loss of something.

135
00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:33.320
And I wrote an article called the
Soul of a startup because they were

136
00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:35.200
calling it a soul full term like
oh something, you know, it's a

137
00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:39.519
nostalgia about something. I was there. I was like what. And I

138
00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:46.000
discovered after some digging, one of
the pillars they lost was purpose. That's

139
00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:48.960
how that connection to purpose so small
growing too large, you can see that

140
00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:54.000
happening. But then I saw large
companies doing it. I mean the classic

141
00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:56.960
example is Microsoft with sat Nadella.
But I also saw it at Lego.

142
00:09:58.440 --> 00:10:03.480
I also saw it at Etsy,
so it was not just small companies engage

143
00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:09.080
in a purpose exercise. Okay,
so that gives us a lot more depth.

144
00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:13.000
And then there's another piece here yet
still that we haven't talked about that

145
00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:16.559
we haven't that I haven't heard many
people actually haven't heard anybody talk about it

146
00:10:16.600 --> 00:10:20.080
this way. You also add one
more element to this, doctor Kladi,

147
00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:24.080
and that is this notion of adding
in moral values to the purpose piece,

148
00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:30.440
the purpose statement. So that is
when I see that, I recognize that

149
00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:33.799
by other companies that have seen that. I believe our practicing and operating through

150
00:10:33.799 --> 00:10:37.240
the purpose. But I've never heard
anybody outright talk about the importance of embedding

151
00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:41.480
moral values into the purpose piece.
Well, I think it's really interesting what

152
00:10:41.559 --> 00:10:48.240
has happened about the segregation of economic
life from a human life. And somewhere

153
00:10:48.279 --> 00:10:54.720
along the way, in this pursuit
of shareholder value maximization, we came to

154
00:10:54.840 --> 00:11:00.279
a belief system that businesses have no
role to play in anything to do with

155
00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:03.360
society. Yet I'm neutral. I
don't want to because that social stuff gets

156
00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:07.879
political very quickly, and we don't
want business involved in politics, even though

157
00:11:07.879 --> 00:11:13.960
they are heavily involved in politics,
but we go through this kind of idea.

158
00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:16.919
No, no, no, I'm
not taking a stance on this loaded

159
00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:22.799
issue. I think society has shown
us and individuals us that's not acceptable.

160
00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:26.879
Sitting on the sidelines is not a
stance. Not acceptable. Take a position,

161
00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:30.440
right, You saw them with Delta
Airlines had to take a position when

162
00:11:30.480 --> 00:11:33.519
it came to voting rights or other
issues, very very challenging issues, you

163
00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:37.600
know, and companies take a hit
for it, right Levi Strauss taking a

164
00:11:37.639 --> 00:11:43.200
stand on gun rights or CBS taking
a stand on tobacco. So you suddenly

165
00:11:43.279 --> 00:11:48.440
start to see society pushing companies to
have a stance on these issues. The

166
00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:54.759
word moral creates makes people queasy because
somehow it's somehow gotten this bad rap,

167
00:11:54.879 --> 00:12:00.679
you see. I think we have
to understand that organizations have to come to

168
00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:05.440
realize they have to have both goals. I want to deliver profit. I

169
00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:07.679
want to deliver returns for my shareholders. Absolutely no, And well let's talk

170
00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:11.720
about that too. Purpose and profit. I want to come to that because

171
00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:18.600
that's another using source. But along
with goals, there is duties and responsibilities

172
00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:26.720
we have. We're not just tax
paying, obeying the laws it is more

173
00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:28.480
than that, and society expects more
of us. And you can see the

174
00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:33.159
Business Roundtable rewriting their purpose statement and
saying we have to take a stance on

175
00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:37.759
sustainability. You can see Larry Fake's
influential letters. Really, you know,

176
00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:43.519
advising public company CEOs, you got
to take a stance, and purpose becomes

177
00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:48.279
a kind of proxy or a litmus
test. By the way, and also,

178
00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:54.799
are you thinking long term not just
short term or just by the quarter?

179
00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:58.720
Yeah? Yeah, So how do
you bring all these ideas together,

180
00:12:58.960 --> 00:13:03.440
my goals, my duties, my
long term vision, my short term vision,

181
00:13:03.159 --> 00:13:07.399
how do I deal with other stakeholders
in my community and society? All

182
00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:15.159
this gets kind of wrapped around into
this purpose idea. And I think the

183
00:13:15.320 --> 00:13:18.000
part I think is important to understand
this is something I've realized after finishing.

184
00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:22.639
A purpose of a company is not
a purpose statement, right, so we

185
00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:26.240
kind of somehow say, oh yeah, purpose means having a purpose statement.

186
00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:30.399
And you know, it's a really
interesting financial tandy a great article. I

187
00:13:30.440 --> 00:13:35.039
love the title. It was called
the Baffling Search for Purpose in Purpose Statements.

188
00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:41.600
That's excellent. And a cruder version
of that was an academic who wrote

189
00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:46.679
an article about more than a decade
ago called sex lies and mission statements.

190
00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:54.360
So, you know, I think
we have to understand that leaders need to

191
00:13:54.399 --> 00:13:56.720
be able to articulate a purpose which
may have to then become a statement.

192
00:13:56.759 --> 00:14:01.399
So there's a one liner that Microsoft
right best Buy, and some of them

193
00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:05.240
have to revise it over time.
Best Buy has been through four Microsoft has

194
00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:09.799
been through three of them. Johnson
and Johnson has a credo. They've kept

195
00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:13.679
the original credo, but they've evolved
it over them. I've seen it.

196
00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:18.799
So I think the question is how
do we go beyond the statement? How

197
00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:22.440
do we make it real? How
do we bring it alive? Yeah,

198
00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:24.080
that's we're going to talk more about
that, and believe it or not,

199
00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:28.440
we've brought got to our first break. It goes by so fast. I'm

200
00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:31.360
your host, Alice Cortes. We
run near with doctor ron J. Golati.

201
00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:33.240
He's the author of Deep Purpose,
The Heart and Soul of High Performance

202
00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:37.559
Companies. We've been talking a bit
about his work and his research and what

203
00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:39.440
he's learned about companies who practice deep
Purpose. After the break, we're going

204
00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:43.200
to hear more about how they actually
pull it off. Stay with us.

205
00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:48.480
We'll be right back. Doctor Release
Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

206
00:14:48.519 --> 00:14:54.279
and purpose and inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies visioneer for greater purpose

207
00:14:54.320 --> 00:15:01.360
among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership
and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment,

208
00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:05.960
performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite Elise

209
00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:11.879
to speak to your organization, please
visit her at elisecortes dot com. Let's

210
00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:22.919
talk about how to get your employees
working on purpose. This is working on

211
00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:26.879
Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To
reach our program today or open a conversation

212
00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:35.440
with Elise, send an email to
Aleise Alise at elisecortes dot com. Now

213
00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:39.320
back to working on Purpose. Thank
you for sting with us, and welcome

214
00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:43.159
back to the program if you're just
joining us. My guest today is doctor

215
00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:46.159
Ron J. Colat. He's the
professor at Harvard Business School and an expert

216
00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:50.200
in leadership strategy and organizational growth.
He's the author of Deep Purpose, The

217
00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:54.759
Hard and Soul of High Performance Companies. I'm your host, doctor Release Cortes.

218
00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:58.360
So what I talked about now we
have to talk about how we operate

219
00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:00.440
this with this stuff. So one
of the things that you talk about in

220
00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:03.279
your book that I again have not
anybody address is the notion of how you

221
00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:08.360
handle trade offs when you're working from
purpose. So you talk about as you

222
00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:12.320
forge trade offs, can communicate them
by explaining how they connect to and support

223
00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:17.840
the purpose. Being explicit. Being
explicit builds cohesion, giving meaning to the

224
00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:22.759
sacrifices stakeholders are making, and further
reinforcing the field and meaning emanating from the

225
00:16:22.799 --> 00:16:26.480
purpose, which is just gorgeous.
Ranche, it's just gorgeous. Well,

226
00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:30.559
thank you, doctor Cordez. I
want to just say, first things,

227
00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:40.799
purpose equals profit. Let me,
this is not charity. This is something

228
00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:44.120
that I had to come to realize. A lot of people think of purpose

229
00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:47.320
as CSR, which is a side
show. So I put a foundation in

230
00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:49.639
place, We do a little outreach
in the community, you know, we

231
00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:53.000
whatever whatever. Once in a while
there's a tragedy. We kind of also

232
00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:56.399
put out some money and we have
a ear mark budget we have ahead of

233
00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:00.600
CSR. Purpose is working from the
core of the business, not in some

234
00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:04.839
side show on the margins or periphery
of the business. Right now, once

235
00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:08.920
you bring purpose into the center of
what you're doing, into the very business,

236
00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:14.799
itself. Now you're thinking, I
have to make some messy choices.

237
00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:18.559
And I have an article coming out
next week and the Harvard Business Review which

238
00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:23.680
is called the messy Messiness of Purpose
because people somehow came out with this idea.

239
00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:26.720
This is what also came about,
was people say, oh, purpose

240
00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:33.519
means win win, I win,
and you win, everybody wins. And

241
00:17:33.799 --> 00:17:38.880
some people have gotten really offended by
this win win notion because they have come

242
00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:45.559
to this notion that purposes win win
means businesses only do good things when they

243
00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:49.279
make money doing them. So show
me the money and I'm happy to write

244
00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:53.119
your check. Is a brand value
in it for me? Is there something

245
00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:56.440
in it for me? So I'm
only going to play in that sweet spot

246
00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:03.880
where social benefit and commercial benefit inters. And I found purpose and I'm reacting.

247
00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:07.640
And a lot of it is think
about individuals right now. You know

248
00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:12.559
some people who are purpose less,
if I may say so, our people

249
00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:17.880
or don't have one yet. We
tend to go through life reacting to the

250
00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:23.839
circumstances coming at us. We make
choices based on expeditious kind of short term

251
00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:27.359
immediate thinking. Do I go left? Do I go right? Am I

252
00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:30.960
gonna eat Chinese? Or Italian today. You know, so I'm kind of

253
00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:36.680
like I'm making my choices. When
we have a purpose, we become much

254
00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:41.559
more proactive. And when we communicate
that purpose, other people in our orbit

255
00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:45.880
understand us better. And then if
we use purpose as a compass when we

256
00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:51.599
make trade offs and choices, it
allows us to be very clear. Look,

257
00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:53.599
I'm sorry I can't help you,
but but I got to explain to

258
00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:56.720
you this is my purpose right now
is to do this, and I can't

259
00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:00.079
do anything else for you right now. I learned this actually in an interesting

260
00:19:00.119 --> 00:19:03.640
way. One of the companies I
looked at was a company called Orsted.

261
00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:10.200
And Orsted is a company that completely
reinvented itself as a green energy company in

262
00:19:10.240 --> 00:19:14.400
a little more than a decade.
And the chairman said to me, he

263
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:18.319
said, you know, purpose allowed
us to make demands of our stakeholders.

264
00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:22.160
Instead of reacting to our stakeholders,
we could tell them I'm sorry, this

265
00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:26.359
is what I need from you.
Remember, I'm trying to be and you

266
00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:29.200
open a pathway. Because I'm not
going to be green overnight. It's going

267
00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:32.720
to take me a decade to get
there, so my journey is going to

268
00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:36.920
be messy along the way, So
listen, cut me some slack and help

269
00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:40.160
instead of help me, partner with
me, collaborate with me, as opposed

270
00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:45.160
to kind of making my life difficult. So how do we create a model

271
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:52.799
of engagement with the world at large
around a common belief? And you know,

272
00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:57.440
it's when it works, but it
really works. But I think you

273
00:19:57.559 --> 00:20:03.319
have to convince the skeptics who still
can't get over the idea. The sound

274
00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:07.759
is just too good to be true. It's good to be true. I'm

275
00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:11.799
sure you know you work with so
many companies around this topic. I'm sure

276
00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:15.920
one of the first things you andcountain. Yeah, so I've been laughed at

277
00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:21.519
many times. Oh yes, well, but you know. So here's here's

278
00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:26.720
an essential ingredient which I wanted to
get to next. It's being idealistic.

279
00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:29.119
So one of the other great things
you say, and I have to read

280
00:20:29.119 --> 00:20:32.720
this paste because it's just gorgeous,
is you say deep purpose leaders are the

281
00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:37.640
best kind of idealists, struggling endlessly
to marry their dream seeking with the realist

282
00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:42.160
hard edge. The injection of reality
doesn't pollute idealism, but rather enables people

283
00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:48.160
with lofty ideals to actually improve human
existence. And here's the greatest paradox of

284
00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:52.839
them all and bending idealism's are to
accommodate the messiness and imperfection of commerce.

285
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:59.200
Deep purpose leaders ultimately do generate more
value for everyone. Understanding and pursuing such

286
00:20:59.319 --> 00:21:03.000
value creation to the fullest can empower
more leaders to do the hard, never

287
00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:08.759
ending, but ultimately fulfilling work of
bringing purpose to life. Yeah. So,

288
00:21:08.839 --> 00:21:12.279
you know, I have to say
that I was so fortunate in this

289
00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:22.079
inquiry to encounter some extraordinary leaders and
you know, extraordinary leaders, And I

290
00:21:22.119 --> 00:21:30.000
think for me that was really profound
because I found that there is a different

291
00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:34.720
way to lead, a different way
to imagine our organizations. And I want

292
00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:38.559
to come to the great resignation in
a second with you as well. But

293
00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:44.359
you know, I mean I met
John Olinto. John Lnto is the founder

294
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:48.680
of One Mighty Male, which is
a flour mill that is trying to really

295
00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:53.480
reimagine how we even source flour,
how we process flour, how we then

296
00:21:53.720 --> 00:21:59.279
produce flower based products that are health
good for us and not causing all kinds

297
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:02.359
of other side ef it. And
at the same time, how are we

298
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:04.440
going to be embedded in our community, how do we provide food for the

299
00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:10.160
schools in our neighborhood which are not
so fortunate. How do we create the

300
00:22:10.559 --> 00:22:12.880
member and locating where we do?
And that was not his first venture,

301
00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:17.319
right, he had a first one. He found it be lot good,

302
00:22:17.720 --> 00:22:21.240
So he did be good. And
this I mean, I wouldn't have met

303
00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:26.599
him otherwise. Or Saturndella Microsoft for
extraor and each of them talks about their

304
00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:33.799
personal journey into this topic. They
talk about where they came from, because

305
00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:37.200
if you understand their own personal story, you understand what they're doing and why.

306
00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:41.160
Satya says that, you know,
a defining moment for him was his

307
00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:47.920
son, who was born with cerebral
policy and it forced him to develop a

308
00:22:47.960 --> 00:22:52.039
deep sense of empathy and understanding of
the world. Right, I talked to

309
00:22:52.279 --> 00:22:56.880
Niiran Chaucery the Sea of Panera,
who tragically lost two children to a rare

310
00:22:56.920 --> 00:23:02.200
genetic disorder, one of whom died
as a teenager, like you know,

311
00:23:02.279 --> 00:23:06.880
and slowly over a couple of years, how that shaped who is so tragedy

312
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:11.240
shapes some of us where we came
from shapes and that purpose then says,

313
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:18.920
you know, I think I can
create an environment where others thrive. I'll

314
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:23.160
do a shout out to you know, Arianna Huffington with her whole new venture

315
00:23:23.319 --> 00:23:29.119
called Thrive Global. I mean,
the word thrive has so much to say.

316
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:30.960
And I think if you look at
the Great Resignation or whatever we're calling

317
00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:34.319
it, so this is another one
right now, right, the Great Resignation,

318
00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:37.839
My god, people are leaving.
You know what the answer is,

319
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:41.680
the answer is we've got to pay
them more. In fact, CNN called

320
00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:47.799
it the Great Upgrade, an upgrade. Okay, fine, I agree there

321
00:23:47.799 --> 00:23:52.200
are many occupations that desperately need an
upgrade, and I'm so glad we are

322
00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:56.319
doing that upgrade. But I think
people want more than money. I think

323
00:23:56.359 --> 00:24:00.440
it's completely agreed. Yeah, completely
agreed. For sure, everyone wants to

324
00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:04.559
get paid. But we're not human
beings. We're not coin operated monkeys.

325
00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:07.279
You know, Put a coin in
me and I'll do a dance for you.

326
00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:12.640
We have other aspirations to and I
think in COVID, we've all come

327
00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:21.160
encountered death, illness, fear in
a very very close way. And as

328
00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:25.920
you think about that, what happens
is that we become we expect more of

329
00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:30.079
our lives, we expect more of
our work. So I think it's the

330
00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:36.160
great rethink. To me, what's
going on is the great rethink of life

331
00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:40.400
and work. Now we leaders,
what are we going to do about that?

332
00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:45.359
And I actually I'm writing my next
book as well, and we'll be

333
00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:48.319
addressing that as well. So I
have clients that literally there are people are

334
00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:51.960
just flying out the doors, and
so we're working with them to be able

335
00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:55.680
to address that. So you talk
about four distinct benefits in your book that

336
00:24:55.880 --> 00:24:59.079
about purpose that I think can really
help, right, And I'm completely with

337
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:02.799
you, doctor Gladi that it's not
necessarily about the money. There's so many

338
00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:06.400
other factors well being and do they
care about you? And is this work

339
00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:08.359
meaningful? My part is something that
that's better in the world. Right,

340
00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:14.000
So do you talk about four benefits? One of them is directional, So

341
00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:15.559
will you speak to each of these
four for us and kind of bring them

342
00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:22.640
to life for us? So absolutely, and doctor Quaters, I'm so glad

343
00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.200
that you know you and I are
observing similar dynamics over here. People will

344
00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:33.400
recognize this. So I talked about
the four benefits because of this purpose profit

345
00:25:33.480 --> 00:25:40.160
connection. So there's a huge effort
underway among academics, consultants, and even

346
00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:45.519
finance people about trying to correlate purpose
and performance? Yes, can purpose explain

347
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:51.319
ten year, five year te total
shareholder return? Can it correlate to growth

348
00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:53.920
and patenting or something or the other? And even how do you measure purpose

349
00:25:53.960 --> 00:25:57.240
in the first place. That's a
pretty messy endeavor to begin with. I'm

350
00:25:57.279 --> 00:26:00.200
part of that effort, so I'm
involved in a project where we're going to

351
00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:04.079
have large sample data on this topic. But I said, Okay, I'm

352
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:07.599
talking to people. I want to
ask them, how can purpose? Then

353
00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:11.319
I asked them, is purpose good
for your business? And then the answer

354
00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:15.039
was universe At least the company that
I looked at was resounding yes. I

355
00:26:15.039 --> 00:26:22.119
said how, And through those conversations
I discovered four pathways. The first is

356
00:26:22.119 --> 00:26:26.920
the most obvious one. People show
up to work differently if your people buy

357
00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:30.400
into purpose. But if they buy
into and then I have a whole discussion

358
00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:33.920
of how do you get them to
buy in? If people buy into purpose,

359
00:26:34.359 --> 00:26:38.400
then you're going to have an inspired
workforce, not even an engaged,

360
00:26:38.440 --> 00:26:42.000
but inspired workforce, and that's a
whole different level of productivity. Agreed.

361
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:48.279
The second one is also obvious.
Marketing goople have talked about purpose branding that

362
00:26:48.319 --> 00:26:52.960
you know customers are increasingly trusting of
brands that stand for something bigger than themselves.

363
00:26:53.720 --> 00:27:00.440
So we have a reputational element to
it. There's a third element,

364
00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:07.880
and the third element is is relational
how do you connect to your community of

365
00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:12.279
stakeholders suppliers, And I have examples
of that. And then the last one

366
00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:18.039
is the directional how you use it
as an orienting system. So I wanted

367
00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:22.200
to carve out and show. Now
there are some companies doing all of them.

368
00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:26.400
One of them is a Swiss company
called Bueler. Nobody here will have

369
00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:30.240
heard of Bueler, but every one
of you has been touched by Buler at

370
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:36.039
some point in time because they make
equipment that is the largest provider of equipment

371
00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:40.480
that processes a lot of the grain
in the world. The milling machines.

372
00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:45.839
Right, they process lentils right or
by the way, chocolates also, they

373
00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:48.440
have a chocolate process. If you
are eating lint chocolates or nestlet chocolates,

374
00:27:48.759 --> 00:27:51.920
you know, so you have a
lot of products that are touched by that

375
00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:55.960
and pasta pasta processing machines. So
then if you eat pasta, most likely

376
00:27:56.039 --> 00:27:57.920
you've been touched by them. And
they said, okay, first of all,

377
00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:03.279
food is a major contributor to greenhouse
gas emissions. Okay, we're going

378
00:28:03.319 --> 00:28:07.160
to make our machines more efficient,
so there isn't there's less waste and we'll

379
00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:11.559
make them more energy efficient, but
all impact is going to be fractional.

380
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:18.960
The biggest energy footprint of food comes
from besides, of course vegetarian non where

381
00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:25.160
we'll go to the plant based protein
is a different conversation is waste? Now,

382
00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:29.480
we because of our place in the
food value chain, we know all

383
00:28:29.480 --> 00:28:33.119
of the players. Every one of
them buys our machines. Okay, we're

384
00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:36.559
going to bring them all together.
First, what's our purpose? Our employees

385
00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:37.920
better buy in to our purpose.
We're here to make the world a better

386
00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:41.079
innovating for a better world. How
are we going to do that. We're

387
00:28:41.079 --> 00:28:45.160
going to bring our whole value chain
together, everybody together for a convenient event,

388
00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:49.839
and we'll talk about why it's important
and what can we all do about

389
00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:56.599
it. We're going to bring in
experts. So how do you engage broader?

390
00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:00.960
I think to understand that and then
drive is it going to help their

391
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:07.559
performance? Absolutely? So, I
think we have to recognize that purpose is

392
00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:12.480
good for business well, and then
yes, and then we've got it.

393
00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:15.880
We have to actually learn how to
say that. Well. Right, So

394
00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:18.200
one of the other great things that
you talk about is the importance of communicating

395
00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:22.200
the purpose with and just the way
that you describe that so compelling. So

396
00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:29.000
would you say a little bit more
about the way these deep purpose leaders describe

397
00:29:29.359 --> 00:29:33.640
their purpose? So I thought it
was fascinating doctor. What is because you

398
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:37.599
know, I can talk about strategy, I can talk about my goals,

399
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:40.160
I can talk about a lot of
things. I can talk about my mission

400
00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:42.400
statement, I can talk about vision
statement, I can talk about culture.

401
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:48.359
How do you talk about purpose?
Especially further down in the organization? And

402
00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:55.400
there's a there's data showing there's an
exponential decay in purpose understanding in organizations,

403
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:59.079
done by a colleague of mind,
George Serafim, as well as by McKenzie

404
00:29:59.319 --> 00:30:03.680
showing this exponential decay in organizations when
it comes to purpose. And so you

405
00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:07.599
say, okay, what's the leader's
job? How are you going to communicate

406
00:30:07.640 --> 00:30:10.359
this? Because people I saw do
you are cynical saying oh God another one

407
00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:15.599
of the slogans? And usually and
you want a purpose statement that is expansive

408
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:21.440
and ambitious and as aspirational. But
at the same time, the more inspiring

409
00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:26.240
it is, the less concrete it
is. So how do you connect inspiring

410
00:30:26.319 --> 00:30:34.039
expansive with concrete? And I found
that the masterful leaders are amazing communicators and

411
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:40.640
they do it through storytelling. They
understand what we academics like to call it

412
00:30:40.799 --> 00:30:45.799
narrative, right, So they build
a narrative, they build a story and

413
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:48.200
they lay it out as a story
in their personal story. So you know,

414
00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:52.279
if you read an article by Indra
A. NUIs in the Harbor Dister

415
00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:56.319
View last year where she talks about
what she did at Pepsi, yeah,

416
00:30:56.559 --> 00:31:00.200
you know, she tells it as
a story, like about her story and

417
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:03.119
how growing up as a child,
you know, there was no water in

418
00:31:03.119 --> 00:31:07.160
the house and her mother to get
up at three am to get one bucket

419
00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:11.200
for each child, so everyone had
one bucket of water. And what does

420
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:14.680
that mean? Growing up? Means
that we have to really think about water

421
00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:18.920
conservation, especially in water scarce regions. And one of the biggest consumers of

422
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:22.119
water is companies like Pepsy. So
how do we need to think about the

423
00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:26.319
environment, about community, what is
the role we play? That's a self

424
00:31:26.359 --> 00:31:30.559
story. Then it's like us we
as a collective, we need to do

425
00:31:30.599 --> 00:31:36.200
something about it. And one of
the leaders at PEPSI at the time was

426
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:41.680
Frank Cooper, and Frank told me
he said it was complete surround sound performance.

427
00:31:42.519 --> 00:31:49.720
So I think you have to understand
how we engage with our community and

428
00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:55.000
purpose is good for business, but
how you communicate it now because people have

429
00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:57.960
to buy it now. Even then
I have to say, Doctor Waters,

430
00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:00.680
I thought I had it crack.
They told a good story, but I

431
00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:07.200
then discovered another wrinkle to this,
which was surprising to me, and I

432
00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:10.960
was a little confused at first.
A lot of them would make that employees

433
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:17.440
start to do exercises about asking about
their own personal life purpose. Another leader

434
00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:22.839
that I got to know was Matt
Breitfelder, who was at black Rock at

435
00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:28.000
the time and now he's the head
of HR at Apollo. And Matt had

436
00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:32.319
this exercise rolled out where everyone had
to think about their personal purpose. And

437
00:32:32.519 --> 00:32:37.480
I saw this actually also at Microsoft
Yes in the Park Yes. And then

438
00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:40.720
I started at KPMG, where they
asked every employee to write out why do

439
00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:43.799
I come to work? And I
was like, why are they do that?

440
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:47.160
Talk about company stuff? They said, And Matt explained beautifully to me.

441
00:32:47.319 --> 00:32:52.720
He said people will only resonate with
a company purpose when they themselves feel

442
00:32:52.720 --> 00:33:00.839
a purpose in their own lives.
Yes, yes, unlock. Oh,

443
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:02.559
I'm not going to let you go. You know that. Right. We've

444
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:05.680
got to grab a quick break,
but I am not letting you go.

445
00:33:05.799 --> 00:33:07.079
You can run, but you can't
hide. I'm very fast on my feet.

446
00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:10.319
I'm your host, Doctor Release Cortes. We Know on the air with

447
00:33:10.359 --> 00:33:14.839
doctor Ronja Glati. He's the author
of Deep Purpose, The Heart and Soul

448
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:17.880
of High Performance Companies. We've been
talking about the gist of his book and

449
00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:22.519
his work after the Breaker to talk
more about how to treat those human beings

450
00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:24.759
that are inside the organization powering the
purpose. See what this will be right

451
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:30.599
back. Doctor Elise Cortes is a
management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose and

452
00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:37.799
inspirational speaker and author. She helps
companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and

453
00:33:37.880 --> 00:33:44.799
develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning infused
cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

454
00:33:44.920 --> 00:33:49.559
commitment within the workforce. To learn
more or to invite Elise to speak to

455
00:33:49.599 --> 00:33:53.559
your organization, please visit her at
Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how

456
00:33:53.599 --> 00:34:05.960
to get your employees working on Purpose. This is working on Purpose with doctor

457
00:34:05.960 --> 00:34:09.599
Elise Cortes. To reach our program
today or open a conversation with Alise,

458
00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:16.039
send an email to a lease a
l I se at Elisecortes dot com.

459
00:34:16.199 --> 00:34:22.880
Now back to working on Purpose.
Thanks for staying with us, and welcome

460
00:34:22.920 --> 00:34:24.840
back to working on Purpose if you're
just starting the program. My guest today

461
00:34:24.920 --> 00:34:29.679
is doctor Ront Golati. He's the
professor at Harvard Business School and an expert

462
00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:32.800
on leadership strategy and organizational growth.
He's the author of Deep Purpose, The

463
00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:37.280
Herd and Soul of High Performance Companies. I'm your host, doctor Realise Cortes.

464
00:34:37.880 --> 00:34:39.880
So part of the reason that I
am so attracted to this field on

465
00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:45.079
doctor Golotti, is is that to
me, the pursuit and as it is

466
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:49.719
so aspirational, right, it really
calls us to be our best when we

467
00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:52.559
when we go down this purpose path. And so it's really hard work,

468
00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:55.199
right, This is this is not
for the fate of heart. And one

469
00:34:55.199 --> 00:34:58.519
of the things that you talk about
in your book that I think is really

470
00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:04.239
critical is talk about how deep purpose
leaders bind organizational purpose to team members' personal

471
00:35:04.280 --> 00:35:10.239
growth and development and just how riveted
they are on celebrating the uniqueness of each

472
00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:14.519
human being and elevating that. It's
just it's beautiful the way you talk about

473
00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:19.159
that. So will you give us
more depth into that view on how purposelys

474
00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:23.960
are helping steward the growth of their
employees. So, you know, I

475
00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:30.440
have to say. Kathleen Hogan,
the chro of Microsoft, said it really

476
00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:35.880
well. She describes it as the
following. She says, you don't really

477
00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:43.280
work for Microsoft until Microsoft works for
you. Oh, and you have to

478
00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:46.039
reflect on that statement because I at
first was confused of what that means,

479
00:35:46.079 --> 00:35:49.760
because I thought, oh, what
even Microsoft works for you? And the

480
00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:54.679
idea was we want to elevate your
life, right, and if we can't

481
00:35:54.679 --> 00:36:00.920
help elevate your life, then you
know you shouldn't really be here. Now

482
00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:05.639
ask yourself what's behind that? So
the first thing is I want Now if

483
00:36:05.679 --> 00:36:07.079
you say I want to climb Mount
Everest and I want to go bicycling and

484
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:08.760
I don't want to show to work, then that's not for you. This

485
00:36:08.840 --> 00:36:12.159
is not a free for all that
you know we're giving you a blank check

486
00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:15.480
and don't need to show up to
work. No, we want to align

487
00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:19.760
what we do, our purpose with
your purpose and we're going to do our

488
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:24.199
best to bring connection there. Our
job is to empower with the world through

489
00:36:24.239 --> 00:36:30.280
technology. If you have an idea
of something you believe, right, even

490
00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:35.920
if it doesn't make Microsoft much money, we'll consider it. So John Kahan,

491
00:36:35.960 --> 00:36:37.519
one of the employees of Microsoft,
had a very tragedy. He lost

492
00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:42.480
a child to SIDS, and so
his team on their own got together and

493
00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:45.840
that you know, we need to
find a way to help researchers understand SIDS

494
00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:49.280
better. And they found that the
data for it was fragmented all over the

495
00:36:49.320 --> 00:36:52.280
world. They use, of course
Microsoft as zerr and they were going to

496
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:54.840
bring all the data together, put
it out there in public source to the

497
00:36:54.920 --> 00:37:00.320
children's hospital in Seattle and said,
researchers, here is the data to help

498
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:02.840
you. Now that was the pure
I would say social project, But they

499
00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:09.559
also are help employees discover commercial projects
that are connected to their personal being,

500
00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:15.880
right, and how do you do
that? So it's about finding commercial and

501
00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:19.679
social and the intersection of the two. Now, Sating will be kidding you,

502
00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:22.519
and he said that, he said
himself, I'm not kidding that shareholders

503
00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:25.840
matter. We can only do these
things that we are also delivering for shareholders

504
00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:30.559
right, So I want to go
back to this confusion that purpose somehow means

505
00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:36.159
I am sorry not making money because
I'm so busy going stuff, because my

506
00:37:36.199 --> 00:37:40.440
purpose is make the world better.
I think it's also about human aspiration.

507
00:37:43.960 --> 00:37:50.159
I firmly believe now, and I'm
really feeling that the one positive outcome of

508
00:37:50.239 --> 00:38:00.199
COVID is it's elevated our expectations of
life. Yes, oh yes, and

509
00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:07.360
in that process, and life includes
work, And so I am pleased for

510
00:38:07.920 --> 00:38:15.199
those people who are willing to say, if this job doesn't speak to me,

511
00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:20.320
this company doesn't speak to me,
I'm not going to belong here.

512
00:38:20.360 --> 00:38:22.519
And Neil Young said it beautifully.
He said, believe. I don't want

513
00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:25.039
to pick on Spotify. I don't
know enough about it, but look at

514
00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:31.079
the words. It's going to eat
your soul. Yeah. Right, So

515
00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:35.599
you know, you start to see
people making those kinds of statements, right,

516
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:38.039
saying that, hey, you should
expect more out of the place you

517
00:38:38.119 --> 00:38:44.760
work and you better feel that personal
connect. How do I feel a sense

518
00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:47.719
of pride of where I work?
Right? And how do I feel more

519
00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:51.440
engaged? Now? This is not
I want to be very clear, and

520
00:38:51.559 --> 00:38:53.159
this is you can say, this
is just general diffuse, I work for

521
00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:55.960
the World Wildlife Fund, so I
feel good about myself and so all the

522
00:38:57.000 --> 00:39:00.360
Red Cross and I feel good.
No, it also translates it to what

523
00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:06.960
I do every day. So is
the organization trusting enough to empower me to

524
00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:12.920
feel like I am doing something meaningful
in the actual work I also do.

525
00:39:14.719 --> 00:39:17.480
So it's across the board. Does
that make sense? I mean it does,

526
00:39:17.559 --> 00:39:22.400
and you actually, for you the
phrase that you use is caring leaders

527
00:39:22.599 --> 00:39:25.920
You're actually referring to them as caring. I've had this is this show's been

528
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:30.480
on air for seven years now,
and so I've had amazing conversations with people.

529
00:39:30.519 --> 00:39:34.000
We've treated a lot of subjects,
including, of course the importance is

530
00:39:34.000 --> 00:39:37.280
developing emotional intelligence and you know,
doing using that in your leadership, and

531
00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:42.320
also this notion of job purposing right
and social purpose in your in your job,

532
00:39:42.639 --> 00:39:45.960
in your work. So yeah,
I mean, I really appreciate your

533
00:39:45.960 --> 00:39:50.119
perspective that COVID has elevated what we
expect of life, and I want to

534
00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:52.559
be part of champion that hire,
which is why I bring people like you

535
00:39:52.599 --> 00:39:57.079
on my show. Well, thank
you. I must say caring leadership is

536
00:39:57.119 --> 00:40:00.159
not my phrase. It comes from
another really impressive of individual I had a

537
00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:04.679
chance to meet, and that was
Pete Carroll. Including the Cattle Seahawks.

538
00:40:04.719 --> 00:40:07.360
Okay, they didn't have a good
season this year, but we let that

539
00:40:07.480 --> 00:40:13.960
pass. But his entire model of
coaching when he began doing it was quite

540
00:40:14.079 --> 00:40:16.719
radical in the NFL. Now other
coaches also do it. And it was

541
00:40:16.719 --> 00:40:22.840
this simple idea that I care about
you as a person. You're not just

542
00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:27.079
a worker bee, You're not a
number, you're not a player. You're

543
00:40:27.079 --> 00:40:29.960
not like if you and by the
way, doesn't mean he's not demanding.

544
00:40:30.199 --> 00:40:32.000
If you don't deliver, he's going
to trade you or let you lose.

545
00:40:34.039 --> 00:40:37.920
But he said, while you're here, I'm not going to just be directing

546
00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:42.320
you. I actually want to know
you as a whole human being. Are

547
00:40:42.440 --> 00:40:46.480
you? Why are you here on
this planet? And that's engaging in that

548
00:40:46.599 --> 00:40:53.119
personal dialogue and invites them to think
about their own purpose and builds a deeper

549
00:40:53.119 --> 00:40:57.840
connection with your coach. So,
if we are going to be leaders as

550
00:40:57.840 --> 00:41:01.519
coaches, which everyone talks about,
what is it really mean? And I

551
00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:07.119
think this notion that you want to
get to know people as whole human beings.

552
00:41:07.159 --> 00:41:13.039
We all want to feel like we
are valued for who we are,

553
00:41:14.039 --> 00:41:19.320
not for just the job we do. Absolutely, and I know this from

554
00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:22.559
the years of work that I've done
an employee engagement work, Surveying that and

555
00:41:22.599 --> 00:41:27.519
studying that is most the most critical, the most commonly referred to element of

556
00:41:27.559 --> 00:41:30.960
what drives you know, engagement,
connection, et cetera, is being valued

557
00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:36.039
and appreciated. And I must tell
you I wrote an article published about a

558
00:41:36.039 --> 00:41:38.960
month ago in the Harvard Business You
called what do your Black Executives Really Want?

559
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:45.360
And it was co authored with my
good friend and colleague Frank Cooper,

560
00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:57.320
who's the chief marketing officer at black
Rock, And we interviewed several dozen young

561
00:41:57.400 --> 00:42:01.480
black professionals, all of whom came
out of elite background, elite universities and

562
00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:07.280
an elite companies, the best of
the best, meaning every company is doing

563
00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:12.920
DEI and doing all that. And
I was shocking for us to hear that

564
00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:19.920
very few of them would recommend their
place of employer to any other black professional

565
00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:23.840
to come as work. And one
of the themes there were several we talk

566
00:42:23.880 --> 00:42:29.159
about, and I hope you'll read
it. I would love to read it.

567
00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:35.280
Yeah, was this idea around caring
mhm, does my boss really care

568
00:42:35.320 --> 00:42:37.519
about me as a person. What
are my aspirations, what are my ambition?

569
00:42:37.639 --> 00:42:42.960
What are my constraints? What do
I need help with? You talk

570
00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:50.239
about we use we use all the
right words mentory support this, but caring

571
00:42:50.360 --> 00:42:54.679
is a very simple and yet a
very difficult idea. Mm hmm it is

572
00:42:54.840 --> 00:43:00.559
it so is all right, So
we're coming close to the edge of the

573
00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:01.880
show. And the last thing we
have to talk about, which is so

574
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:05.400
critical, it's towards the end of
your book here is you say. As

575
00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:10.000
powerful as purpose is when fully mobilized, it remains fragile. So how do

576
00:43:10.039 --> 00:43:15.159
we how do we steward this beautiful
thing called purpose? Deep purpose? So

577
00:43:15.239 --> 00:43:17.480
look, it happens to us individually
too, right, We may have a

578
00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:21.440
purpose in our lives, but then
we get derailed if something happens in our

579
00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:22.440
lives, we get whack left,
right, center, or we have an

580
00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:25.280
opportunity comes up and we say,
oh, forget the purpose. I got

581
00:43:25.280 --> 00:43:30.199
to go for that. So we
all have our kind of hiccups and roadblocks

582
00:43:30.280 --> 00:43:34.239
or whatever you want. But companies
are found fascinating and I actually saw this

583
00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:38.920
in iconic companies that once upon a
time war, you know, put on

584
00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:45.079
a pedestal Johnson and Johnson like Tredo, and then you have about twenty years

585
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:50.159
ago, a decade of scandal,
you know, shutdown of factories, the

586
00:43:50.159 --> 00:43:53.440
CEO having to apologize in front of
Congress, fines and you're like, what

587
00:43:53.599 --> 00:43:59.039
went wrong? Oh, you look
at Boeing and the seven thirty seven Max

588
00:43:59.079 --> 00:44:04.360
scandal. Boeing was a really proud
engineering company on the frontier of safety and

589
00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:08.360
aviation. What went wrong? And
so everyone said, oh, it's the

590
00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:10.760
culture, you know, it must
be the culture, and culture, yes,

591
00:44:10.840 --> 00:44:15.400
for sure, but I think if
you really prove deeper, it was

592
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:22.039
also kind of a you lose your
way purpose and so and I also saw

593
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:27.719
this especially in founder led company where
the founder who personifies a company and then

594
00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:30.440
leaves and in some cases they come
back. And when they come back,

595
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:34.079
you know, look at what Howard
Schultz said when he came back to Starbucks

596
00:44:34.480 --> 00:44:38.760
many years ago. He said Starbucks
has lost its soul. Steve Jobs when

597
00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:42.679
he came back, had the same
thing to say as well. So there's

598
00:44:42.719 --> 00:44:52.400
something about organizations that is this kind
of elusive but profound thing that we might

599
00:44:52.480 --> 00:44:57.320
call having a purpose, and that
becomes an orienting system. I want to

600
00:44:57.360 --> 00:45:01.480
remind you again, purpose is profit, it's not, and I wish people

601
00:45:01.480 --> 00:45:06.880
would understand that that. Look,
here's a way to drive growth, achieve

602
00:45:06.960 --> 00:45:10.119
great success, and build a humane
work environment where people want to come to

603
00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:15.119
work with. That sounds good to
me, and I think you have been

604
00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:19.440
doing that. I think is as
I look at what you've been doing,

605
00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:22.880
that's kind of the path you've been
on, trying to get organizations to transform

606
00:45:22.960 --> 00:45:28.880
themselves into the workplace where everybody wants
to come to work. Yes, that's

607
00:45:28.880 --> 00:45:31.840
what I've been up to. And
Buler did that. I saw Bula in

608
00:45:32.440 --> 00:45:36.880
just a couple of years of doing
this kind of purpose efforts, they became

609
00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:42.199
among the top most desirable places to
work in Switzerland. It works, I

610
00:45:42.239 --> 00:45:45.880
know, I believe you. It
works. I'm mean, so we're at

611
00:45:45.920 --> 00:45:49.719
the end already, doctor Golotti.
It happens. It goes by so fast.

612
00:45:49.760 --> 00:45:52.000
You know, the show is listening
to right people across the world,

613
00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:54.480
and they are out to join us
to help develop workplaces where people actually want

614
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:57.719
to come to work, do their
best, and we do business that better

615
00:45:57.800 --> 00:46:00.599
is the world. What would you
like to leave us with today? I

616
00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:06.119
hope all of us should expect more
out of our lives. We should expect

617
00:46:06.159 --> 00:46:10.400
more out of our work. Don't
sell yourself short. As one young person

618
00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:15.519
I interviewed who's a deep purpose leader
said to me, I had to ask

619
00:46:15.599 --> 00:46:20.360
myself what is my time worth?
And the moment I did the math and

620
00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:23.639
I said to myself, that's crazy. I'm selling myself short. And then

621
00:46:23.679 --> 00:46:25.480
she said, what's the right number? And she said, there is no

622
00:46:25.599 --> 00:46:35.239
number. How do I know allow
myself to aspire to make a difference in

623
00:46:35.280 --> 00:46:38.719
the world, have an impact,
and of course be paid well. So

624
00:46:38.840 --> 00:46:44.880
I'm not saying it's not a getting
paid practical idealism. How can we reconcile

625
00:46:44.920 --> 00:46:46.880
those things in our lives? And
I hope we expect more out of our

626
00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:51.800
jobs, more out of our lives, and use purpose as the way into

627
00:46:51.840 --> 00:46:54.719
it. Smashing way to finish,
Doctor Galatti, I thank you so much

628
00:46:54.760 --> 00:46:59.360
for joining me. You are a
gift to the world, so nice of

629
00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:00.920
you to say thanks, thank you. I'm really grateful for the opportunity to

630
00:47:00.960 --> 00:47:06.960
share my ideas here and I feel
really fortunate to have had students who nudged

631
00:47:07.000 --> 00:47:09.679
me to study this topic and really
nudged me to do that. And for

632
00:47:09.800 --> 00:47:15.000
all the leaders who share their time
with me to share their stories. Thank

633
00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:19.039
you, absolutely absolutely here here.
If you want to learn more about doctor

634
00:47:19.119 --> 00:47:21.480
ron J. Galotti, his books
are the work he does, you can

635
00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:23.679
start. There's two places I'm going
to send you. One is his book

636
00:47:23.840 --> 00:47:29.159
site, which is deeppurpose dot net. The other is his own personal site,

637
00:47:29.440 --> 00:47:31.599
Ronjgalotti dot com. Let me spell
that for you, It's r A

638
00:47:31.880 --> 00:47:37.960
n j A Y g U l
A t I dot com. Last week,

639
00:47:37.960 --> 00:47:39.239
if you missed the live show,
you can always catch a we recorded

640
00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:45.039
podcast We Run There with doctor Nathaniel
Sincer talking about his book The Confident Mind,

641
00:47:45.280 --> 00:47:47.960
A battle Tested Guide to Unshakable Performance. Next week, we'll be on

642
00:47:49.000 --> 00:47:52.599
there with Lori Van talking about the
real problems of burnout in the workplace and

643
00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:55.480
how many employees in this period of
the Great Resignation are looking for companies to

644
00:47:55.519 --> 00:47:59.360
work for who will honor their well
being. See you there. Remember that

645
00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:04.039
works at least a verbal life show. Let's Work on Purpose. We hope

646
00:48:04.079 --> 00:48:07.119
you've enjoyed this week's program. Be
sure to tune in too Working on Purpose

647
00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:13.320
featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes, each week on the Voice America Empowerment

648
00:48:13.400 --> 00:48:20.239
channel. Together, we'll create a
world where business operates conscientiously, Leadership inspires

649
00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:24.639
impassioned performance, and employees are fulfilled
in work that provides the meaning and purpose

650
00:48:24.719 --> 00:48:29.679
they crave. See you there.
Let's work on purpose.