Her New Standard: Lifting Women in Leadership

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortez. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working

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on Purpose. Now Here is your
host, Elise Cortez. Welcome back to

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the Working on Purpose Show. Thanks
for tuning in again this week. I'm

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your host, doctor Elise Cortez,
joining a lie from Dallas, Texas,

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which is home based for me.
If you've been tuning in for a while,

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you know this program is an inspirational
thought leadership platform that advances the conversation

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on living and working with passion,
inspiration, and purpose. I'm committed to

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helping create a world where business and
capitalism are a force for good, constantly

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work into address the immense number of
problems society faces and serving all stakeholders,

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certainly it's employees among them. The
ALP Organization reports that eighty five percent of

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the global workforce does not want to
go to work on Monday or whenever.

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The shift starts. Let's change that
together and instead make work and enriching part

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of life that expresses meaningful contribution and
helps us grow into our highest selves,

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all in service of the organization's purpose. Each week in these conversations, I

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hope you walk away with something that
changes the way you think that you can

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immediately put to use. Much of
the content we discuss on this program is

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a reflection of the work I do. So as you listen, if you

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catch a glimpse of anything I can
do to help, go to my website

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at least Cortez dot com and use
the contact me feature to message me.

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Let's talk about what's going on for
you and how I might be able to

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help, whether it's consulting on visioneering
for a greater purpose among your stakeholders,

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the Final Inspired Leadership program, the
online catch Fire learning communities, or speaking

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for your company or conference atting a
rate. I'm glad we're connected, and

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thanks for listening. Now onto this
week's program with us today is doctor Ellen

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Keith line Burn, an executive coach, social scientist, and leader who develops

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people to be mindful, courageous,
and innovative so they can thrive in their

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Roles Elan is a contributing author to
Harvard Business Review, Forbes, and mindful

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dot org. She is a co
founder of her new standard, The Playbook

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for Women Leaders, a leadership consultancy
focused on developing women leaders. We'll be

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talking about why and how women can
distinguish their contribution as leaders and learn some

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specific ways women can immediately apply to
teach teaching the steps to their role as

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leaders. She joined a day from
the New York City area doctor Keith line

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Byrne. Welcome to working on purpose. So happy to be here at last.

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Thanks for asking. Isn't this fun? I'm telling you, don't tell

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anybody how much fun we're having.
I know, I'm really this is Yeah,

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I get to connect with another Fielding
graduate. I'm thrilled to be talking

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to you tonight. Who fielding?
That's right. Well to get us started

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here, you know, Ellen that
among many of my other passions, I'm

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an identity and meeting researcher, which
of course started from my fielding journey.

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So let's talk about who you are. There's a lot to you. So

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if we were to share the key
aspects of who you are to someone who

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doesn't know you at all, maybe
you're walking into a cocktail party or whatever.

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What would you say? I love
that question, and I try to

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work with my people that I worked
with on that question and it's a hard

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one. But what I like to
say is, and you started with it

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already, that I'm an executive coach, social scientist, but I love to

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help people be happier, healthier,
and more innovative so that they can thrive

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in their personal lives and careers.
So recently, as you know, I've

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been spending a lot more time getting
excited about advancing women leaders So I've been

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diving into that kind of research and
that kind of consulting and coaching work.

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Yes, indeed, and that's why
I wanted to have you on the show.

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So you told me when we first
had our conversation together that enabling women's

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leadership is an important contribution to make
the world better. And is your why?

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So now you've riveted yourself up in
that camp. Why what's going on

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for that? Well? I guess
since I was a little girl and at

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a lot of young women have probably
felt this way at some point in time.

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But there was a sense of knowing
that there's a need to have more

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women influencers in this world. There
needs to be some sort of energy behind

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the female force. And when I
think about it now as a practitioner,

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as a scientist, I really start
to see that our world has been designed

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by men for men, and that's
okay. But when we start to see

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the research saying that actually companies and
organizations and communities and societies are more effective

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when there's diversity of thought at the
top, then you can start to say,

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wow, there's actually science behind it. There's showing up that there's profitability

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and organizations when you challenge the old
status quo of doing things the old boys

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way. So I'm really excited when
you start to see the shift in dynamics

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in our political system, in our
world, in our organizations. They're really

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taking it seriously, and I really
think that the society is can be better

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for it. I completely agree with
that, and I do a lot of

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work myself developing leaders and speaking at
women's conferences. So you and I are

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sisters in arms in many ways,
as you know. Yeah. Absolutely.

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Now for our listeners who don't know
you the way that I do, Ellen,

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I want to make sure we presence
a lot about your background, so

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you are a very impressive businesswoman yourself. You've had decades of experience running and

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developing your business ventures, and I
think that's important for our listeners to understand

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a bit about where you've come from
and just what you've done. So will

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you briefly sketch your background for us? Sure? Well. I started as

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an undergrad and finance because at the
time I needed to pay for my way

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through college. And I got a
great job at Xerox selling technology and was

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making decent money and started to say, Wow, I really like the people

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side of the business more than the
technology side, So what can I do

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that would have more impact on that? And I started to start to think

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about this doctorate in psychology or organizational
behavior. I started to investigate and apply,

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and as life happens for a lot
of people, women in particular,

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three kids later and a marriage and
moving around a bunch, I had a

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master's in counseling instead. Because it
kept me local. I wasn't traveling.

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I could stay within the community of
where my children were. My husband was

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commuting a long distance, and so
the choices I made were wonderful at the

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time. I did it for a
number of years. It gave me an

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opportunity to really dive into community work
and change management, change society. I

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implemented this very cool prevention initiative that
won an award in the Fearful County,

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Connecticut area, and so I started
to say, Wow, I like looking

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at these big organizational shifts, like
how can I look at societies, communities,

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organizations and systems and make changes for
the better. So, as I

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was exploring that and happy with that
role, I said, I'm itching to

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get back into the fast paced world
of the business, world of that high

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functioning, energetic person that really wants
more. And so I started to go

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back and that's when I started to
look at the Fielding graduate program, start

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to look at really leadership, consulting, executive coaching, and so I shifted

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my social work work and really started
to look at the big picture business.

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And that's how I ended up in
a consulting practice and started her news Standard

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with two phenomenal business partners, Karen
Kirkner and Denise Dagastino. They both have

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a very impressive backgrounds as leaders,
as coaches, as consultants, And it

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was about two and a half years
ago. We were on a call and

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we started to say, hey,
listen, we really want to tackle this

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advancing women in leadership thing. We
want to understand it, we want to

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dive into the research, we want
to say what needs to happen, and

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let's use our experience along with the
research to really design something powerful. And

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we have. So that's where we
are today and sounds like a Greig.

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It's a fun to me, Ellen, I'm in I've done something similar and

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that I've created my own program too. It's not just for women, but

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I do very much. You and
I have a very similar sort of trajector

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in that way, but I didn't
do I didn't do the social work part

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of things or but very interesting similar
kinds of trajectory and journey. Isn't that

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fun? Yeah, it's amazing.
That's great. Right, Okay, So

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now for our listeners are sitting there
going, okay, so we're talking about

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women's leadership. That's interesting. I'll
bet just a few of them are going,

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hold on just a second. How
is women's leadership different from that of

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men? What would you say?
Well, it's a great question, and

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we get that often, and when
you start to dive into looking at the

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research and what women, especially the
ones that we work with say is that

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often, especially in male dominated organizations, the way women develop their leadership identity

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in a male dominated play is different
than the way men develop their leadership identity.

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So we had to take a closer
look at that process. And there's

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some very cool research that happened with
Robin Eliott at the Helm. She's a

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Harvard Business School professor who runs gender
initiatives, and she really found the link

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that women need to be pulled out
of at certain stages within their development,

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pulled out of the dual sex community
of learning to really single sex community where

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they can step out of their comfort
zones in subtle ways and try things on

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that might feel uncomfortable, that might
be embarrassing because they might fail. And

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so they've noticed that there was a
lot more ability to be vulnerable in these

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places, so there was a lot
more learning to go on. So that's

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why we developed the six month intensive
that allows these women to take these chances.

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Does I answer your question beautifully?
Just beautifully? But now the next

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question that we have to get into
next is and I've been curious about this

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myself done some research and do find
myself having a conversation with various women about

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this. So, what in your
experience and research explains why women do not

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pursue leadership rules? What stops them
or holds them back? Do you think,

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Well, it's so interesting because if
you talk to very senior level leaders

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in mostly male dominated organizations, they'll
usually say there's oh, we have the

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systems in place, we have all
the things in place, and women are

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actually choosing to opt out when it
becomes family time or their caretaking responsibilities.

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They will opt out of moving up
the ladder. Well, research is me

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back saying, actually, that's not
true. What's happening is that women are

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starting to not see or not starting. They don't see a path forward.

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They know they have this extra responsibility, they know that there might be some

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things in place. But in certain
organizations I can think of one bank in

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particular, they a very senior level
person said, oh, yeah we have

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flex time, Oh yeah, we
had parental leagues. Sure, but oh

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my goodness, you could never take
it. It's a subtle cultural thing,

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that's just that's it. You would
looked at, you'd be looked at very

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negatively if you took that extra you
know, four months of maternity leave,

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or if the father of the child
said, you know, I'm going to

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take my four months of maternity leave. They would be it would be frowned

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upon. So it's the cultures that
need to start to shift, not the

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conscious bias that's underlying all of this. Okay, so now let me throw

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it in. Another question that just
came in into the chat room from somebody

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named Lang. Thank you Lang for
weighing in and posing this question. Question

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is do you find it easier for
women to advance in the business today?

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Is the question? It sort of
seems like it falls on the heels of

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what you were just talking about.
Well, yes, I think it easier

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than when you know, if you're
thinking about easier than twenty thirty years ago.

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Absolutely, I think there are more
things in place. You starting to

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see a lot more happening at the
senior level where they're taking that very seriously.

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There are there's more attention. Fortunately
in most businesses, they're realizing that

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because the research is saying, hey, listen, the profits are actually much

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better. I'll give you one credit
Swiss Research Institute saying it confirms the clear

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link that companies with a higher portion
of women and decision making roles continue to

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generate higher returns of equity while running
more conservative balance sheets. So when you

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start to see research that's saying this, companies are saying, WHOA, we

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better take this seriously. So,
yes, I think lang they are.

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It is becoming easier. It's still
not easy. Excellent response. Okay,

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So the last thing I want to
talk about in this segment here is the

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idea, the confidence thing. So
it seems to me in the work that

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I've done ellen that women need to
bolster their confidence in order to assume and

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develop their leadership roles and their and
their talents and their competencies. But men

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don't seem to struggle with the same
issue the way that women do. What's

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your take on this? And you
know that is an awesome question. A

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least. The reality is is that
confidence is an issue that most people struggle

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with on some level. It really
is. And most of the women that

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go through our program are very very
much eager to build their competence. And

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then I'll see the eavesdropping of men
or the men that are actually sending their

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women to our program and they're saying, but I need that too, you

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know what about me? So I
think what the reality that's happening is confidence

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is something that word is thrown around
like it's something that you can just pick

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up at the grocery store or go
to one class and miraculously two hours later

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have confidence. It's deep rooted into
in our belief systems that really need to

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be looked at, because we all
live with irrational beliefs about who we are.

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So I think that when we start
to talk about confidence, women in

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particular in male dominated organizations, struggle
with that profoundly. But it's still across

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the board. Men and human beings
have confidence issues. That's a beautiful response

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and a very thoughtful response. And
you're right when I think about this,

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Ellen, I also work with many
men, and now that I think about

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it, it doesn't come up as
quickly as it does with women, but

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that you're right, they want to
build and work on their confidence too.

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So nice way to take us into
our first break. I'm your host elis

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Cortez were on the Earth. Doctor
Ellen Keith line BYRNE and executive coach,

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social scientist and leader who develops people
to be mindful, courageous, and innovatives

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so they can thrive in their roles. She is a co founder of her

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new Standard, The Playbook for Women
Leaders and leadership consultants who focused on developing

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women leaders. She joins us to
day from New York City. We've been

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talking a bit about her own background
and the perspective on women's leadership in the

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world. After the break, we're
gonna talk about their particular approach developing women

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leaders. Stay with us, We'll
be right back. Elise Cortez is a

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speaker and engagement and development catalyst.
She designs and delivers professional development, leadership

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and engagement workshops and can bring her
expertise to your organization. She will help

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ignite meaningful development within your workforce that
will increase employee engagement, performance and retention.

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To learn more or to invite Elise
to speak to your organization, please

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visit her at www dot Elise Cortez
dot com. She would welcome the opportunity

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to help get your employees working on
purpose. This is working on Purpose with

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Elise Cortez. To reach our program
today, send an email to Elise ali

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Se at Elise Cortez dot com.
Now back to working on Purpose. Thank

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you for staying with us, and
welcome back to working on Purpose. And

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if you're just joining us, My
guest is doctor Ellen Keith Lyne Byrne,

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an executive coach, social scientist,
and leader who develops people to be mindful,

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courageous, and innovative so they can
thrive in their roles. She is

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a contributing author to Harvard Business Review, Forbes, and mindful dot org.

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She is a co founder of her
new standard, The Playwork for Women Leaders.

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I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortez. Let'speak where we are left off

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there. I was talking about how
here in this segment, we're going to

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talk about some of your perspectives and
approach to developing women's leaders, And I

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got a lot of this off your
blog, which is beautiful, by the

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way, I just thought it was
well done. Thank you. You're welcome

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that You're very welcome. So first, let's talk about a phenomenon you call

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the broken rung where for every one
hundred men promoted to their first level management,

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only seventy two women get that same
promotion. By the way, there

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was also a recent article in the
Wall Street Journal talking about this very thing

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that I caught. But you also
say in your blog posts that estimated that

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our current rate of change will take
until the year twenty eighty five for women

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to reach parity with men and leadership
roles in the United States and two d

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two years before we're able to reach
gender parity globally. Wow. Yeah,

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that's a big, fat wow,
absolutely wow. That is from a study

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of women in the workplace that just
came out that McKinzie and lean In did

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and they looked at data over five
years with five hundred ninety companies, and

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what they were able to identify is
there's a lot more energy going on with

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the glass ceiling, so there's more
movement happening, so it won't be quite

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as dire. But when they took
a look at really the lower levels that

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women are getting stuck at that early
promotion stage, so they're not getting to

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that entry level manager role as fast
as men are, and that is really

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holding them back. Then when you're
trying to promote the more senior level women,

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they're not there. That's exactly what
the article on Wall Street Jurnal also

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talked about. And then here's where
it gets interesting. I was just reflecting

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on that particular question and remembering I'm
working with a brilliant young woman now she

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is early in her leadership career,
and she's just stunning. She's sought me

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out directly, she pays for my
work directly out of her own pocket.

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The company doesn't do that because she's
hungry to learn. And we were talking

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about how in our last conversation,
how there is a gentleman who's exactly her

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same age, the same set of
experiences. Her performance reviews are stunning,

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and he's been promoted ahead of her, and she's like, I know I've

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cut more visibility. I know I'm
contributing, I know I'm valuable, and

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you know, and so it's there, it's right there. There may be

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other contributing factors, but there it
is. Well, what they what we're

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seeing is and you've probably heard this
before, but women are looked at by

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their experience and men are looked at
by their potential. So when and even

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women start to believe that to be
true, so when they go to apply

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for positions, they'll think, and
you've heard this, I'm sure if I

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don't have one hundred percent of the
job qualifications apply, yes, I've seen

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that. And so the classic guy
will say, oh, you know this

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is this is such a stereotype that
you know a man will be like,

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oh, I have seventy percent,
and yeah, let me let me go

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throw that in. But I do
believe that women are looked at differently,

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and it's so unconscious that even the
most progressive companies that are trying to put

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all the right things in place are
struggling with this because these unconscious biases are

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needing to come out, to be
more conscious, so people can talk about

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them, really point these discrepancies out
so that things can start to change.

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That is such a really important point, Ellen, I want to I want

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to go ahead and bring that home
for our listeners. Unconscious by us.

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It's we're all governed by things that
we're not fully aware of, and you're

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right, it is the opportunity to
bring them to our conscious levels, so

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then we can decide to what extent
do these things workforce need to be changed

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or just eradicated entirely. So that
is such an important point. So one

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of the things that this particular study
talked about is that there's not at this

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lower level as many sponsorship opportunities for
women. So there's they're trying to I

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know most of the companies I'm working
with, they're trying to put mentoring programs

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in sponsorship programs in which is all
very good and well, which happens more

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naturally for the mail employee because the
system is designed for men, and so

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when they try to put in a
more formal system of mentoring and sponsorship,

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it doesn't work quite as well as
the informal process. So it's still it's

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hopefully going to start to progress a
little bit more and be better, but

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it's hard to put a spot.
Oh you're going to be my sponsor is

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something that usually evolves over time and
not something that just can be instituted and

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assigned. The other thing that this
report came out to talk about was,

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and I mentioned this as women are
judged by different standards and so they're viewed

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in different ways that are just not
as promising, all related to unconscious bias.

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And then the last is this leads
to really too few qualified women moving

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up that pipeline. So those are
the three top problems that they found with

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the the so called broken rung.
Okay, for this next part here,

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I want to do two things Ellen. One, in my radio show,

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I always want to be able to
give our listeners something that they can immediately

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put to use and make a difference
in their lives. And two, I

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want to empower individuals as well as
leaders and organizations to make a difference in

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their own lives. And so one
of the things I liked about an article

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I saw in your blog was how
we can create our leadership brand, which

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is one of the ways you offer
women can address that actual broken rung phenomenon

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and the promotion problem. So could
you for our listeners articulate the high points

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of that approach? Absolutely, yes, this is one of my most favorite

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things. And what we talk about
is is it's really identifying, identifying where

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you have your unique voice, where
are you within your organization, have some

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unique value that is really special to
you. So how we do that is

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we help our people and so listeners, I would identify three major things.

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One is where are your strengths?
What do you know that you do really

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well? You've heard it from other
people, You've got it maybe in a

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three to sixty report, you've heard
it from family members. You know that

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you do this really well. Second
is what are you passionate about? What

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gets you up in the morning,
What are you so excited about as it

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relates to your work. So purpose
and passion and strengths then the third thing

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is look within your organization, really
dive into your organization on what are their

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goals and objectives as it relates to
what you can offer them. So where

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is the secret sauce that you can
add value for your organization? And when

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you can start to see how your
skills and passion relate to your business,

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then when you're sitting at that table
at that conference room in a meeting,

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one on one with the senior person, you know that you're there, that

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you have a reason to be there, You've been invited to the table,

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and so you have a voice,
so you're able to better articulate who you

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are and what you stand for.
I think that's stunning and it's so simple,

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but it's brilliant. So I wanted
to start with that. Now.

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The second thing you talk about,
which I think is also very very important.

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Another way that women can address that
broken rung and the lack of promotion

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problem is to develop strategic thinking.
So I think that is just critical to

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be able to have business acumen,
to be able to talk about the financial

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numbers and to think strategically, and
to be able to articulate that thinking is

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important. But first for our listeners, what do you mean by strategic thinking.

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Well, strategic thinking is one of
the things that for some reason women

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seem to stand out as having difficulties
with it. And I'll quote one study

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that is fascinating. Zanger and Folkman
did a study in two in twenty twelve.

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They took they looked at three hundred
and sixty degree reports of seventy two

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hundred liters and they identified the top
sixteen competencies. Fifteen out of sixteen.

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Of those competencies, women out achieved
men fifteen out of sixteen. The one

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that they didn't was developing strategic perspective. And what we find is that as

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you progress, women tend to do
really well in school systems, university level,

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entry level, all these skills,
being hardworking, organized, collaborative,

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the go to person never says no, that kind of personality. Those traits

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are phenomenal until you get to the
middle level of leadership. So in the

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hierarchy, at that middle level,
they get stuck because those same traits aren't

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the same traits that they need at
the higher level. And what they need

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at the higher level is they need
to stop doing and more analyzing and being

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more strategic and let's look at let's
look at the big picture, the long

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term strategy. Where are we going? And so often, and I can't

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tell you how many times most I
would say the majority of our clients struggle

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with this. They're so good at
taking on a project and delivering it,

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but it's really hard for them to
colligate, to let them pass it on

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to the next person, to say
no to something, and to not to

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be able to take that step back
and say, Okay, now where is

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my area going, how does it
connect to the industry as a whole,

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how does it connect to the political
system, how does it connect to our

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you know, what's going on in
our world. So we need to take

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these really big approaches to have innovation
and big thinking. Oh so two things,

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one for you, Ellen, and
then one for our listeners. So

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first let me say, Ellen,
that was so beautifully articulated and rendered and

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made it accessible as to what the
problem the disconnect is for women. So

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I thank you very much for that
incredible point. And then for you listeners,

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ladies, you got this. You
can learn to do this, but

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it is you know, you need
a systematic approach to learn how to think

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strategically. And I think Ellen,
slid it out beautifully for you. But

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I want to I want to empower
you that you can do that, and

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I want you to do that.
So thank you, Ellen. That was

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gorgeous, worth the emission price whatever. That was very cool, right,

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all right, So also to another
thing that you talked about in an article

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is the need for women to seek
regular feedback to leverage behavior that is working

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and change what isn't. So a
feedback campaign of sorts, say more about

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what makes her effective feedback solicitation.
Well, what we find is that women

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often get positive feedback, a lot
of positive feedback, but they don't get

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constructive feedback. There's some sort of
element of hesitation in giving constructive feedback.

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So we know that that's how people
grow, and that's how people kind of

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understand their blind spots and know to
navigate that next level of whatever they need

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to do to get to the position
they want. So feedback is key.

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So then how do you do it? You need to and we spend a

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lot of time talking about giving and
receiving feedback, So it's hard to get

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feedback, it's really hard. And
so being able to identify what happens to

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your hijacked brain as somebody is telling
you something you might not really want to

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hear, or it's altered to what
your belief system is. It's how do

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you really receive it so that you
can use it and make yourself better for

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it, or not use it if
you choose not to. You know what

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I would just say to that really
quick and then I got to cut to

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a quick break here. But you
know what I would just presence for our

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listeners is Olivia was asking online what
do you say the hesitation is for women?

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And I think she means about asking
for feedback. What I found is

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that when I lived in Spain and
Brazil and I was learning to speak Spanish

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in Spain and Portuguese and Brazil,
you know, you're putting yourself out there

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and you're you know, you're on
display, and it can be uncomfortable.

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However, when I made it,
when I told people, tell me when

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I make a mistake, correct me
as I go along, it made them

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easier for them to be constructive because
I asked for it. I put it

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right out there and right and so
I want to give that as an example,

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is if you put this out there
and make it part of your everyday

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vernacular. It's easier for people to
wait and say, you know what,

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that presentation just didn't go that well. It wasn't smooth, didn't get your

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point, you didn't bring it home. Whatever it is right and because you

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asked for it, should be a
little softer on that hijacking, as you

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were saying, exactly exactly. And
lastly, when you start to get feedback

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regularly, it softens the hijack.
Yeah, you get used to it.

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You get used to it great.
And with that, let's take our last

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break. Here. I'm doctor Elis
Cortez, your host. We've been on

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the earth. Doctor Ellen Keith line
BYRNE an executive coach, social scientist,

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and leader who develops people to be
mindful, courageous, and innovative so they

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can thrive in their roles. She
is the co founder of her new standard,

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The Playbook for Women Leadership Consultants You, focused on developing women leaders.

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She joins today from the New York
City area. After the break, we're

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00:33:05.079 --> 00:33:07.000
going to hear more about their approach
to developing leaders. Stay with us,

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00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:25.440
we'll be right back. Alise Cortez
is a speaker and engagement and development catalyst.

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00:33:25.640 --> 00:33:30.880
She designs and delivers professional development,
leadership and engagement workshops and can bring

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00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:37.079
her expertise to your organization. She
will help ignite meaningful development within your workforce

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00:33:37.200 --> 00:33:40.880
that will increase employee engagement, performance
and retention. To learn more or to

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00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:45.960
invite Elise to speak to your organization, please visit her at www dot Elise

409
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:52.119
Cortez dot com. She would welcome
the opportunity to help get your employees working

410
00:33:52.279 --> 00:34:01.920
on purpose. This is working on
Purpose with Elise Cortez. To reach our

411
00:34:01.960 --> 00:34:08.719
program today, send an email to
Elise ali Se at Elise Cortez dot com.

412
00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:19.559
Now back to working on Purpose.
Thanks for staying with us, and

413
00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:22.440
welcome back to working on Purpose.
If you're just tuning in. My guest

414
00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:24.960
is doctor Ellen Keith line BYRNE,
an executive coach, social scientist, and

415
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:29.280
leader who develops people to be mindful, of, courageous, and innovative so

416
00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:31.960
they can thrive in their roles.
She's a contributing author to Harvard Business Review,

417
00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:36.199
Forbes, and Mindful dot org.
She is the co founder of her

418
00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:39.320
new standard I'm your host, doctor
Elise Cortez. So for this last segment,

419
00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:44.800
Ellen, I really wanted to presence
for our listeners your particular approach developing

420
00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:50.480
leaders So you've developed a framework and
really a methodology to this, and I

421
00:34:50.480 --> 00:34:53.519
want to help our listeners understand now
so that it can be distinguished. So

422
00:34:54.760 --> 00:34:58.800
first I guess I would ask just
how would you distinguish your approach from that

423
00:34:58.840 --> 00:35:02.559
of other professionals or provider that you
know of. Well, it's quite different.

424
00:35:02.679 --> 00:35:08.760
It's very high touch. It's based
on research and our own decades of

425
00:35:08.840 --> 00:35:17.800
experience. We saw this one leadership
research process that was identified by Robin Elee

426
00:35:19.079 --> 00:35:23.679
and then two others Deborah Colbyn Hermania, Iberia. All three are very famous,

427
00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:32.920
well known researchers in the area,
and they identified this need for identifying

428
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:40.599
leadership leadership identity and so when you
can start to really find ways to develop

429
00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:45.639
that, it's powerful. So what
we did was we said, all right,

430
00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:52.280
there are elements that helped to change
behaviors. We always see in most

431
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:55.480
of the programs that I see in
many organizations. They have wonderful full day

432
00:35:55.519 --> 00:36:02.639
conferences that are very exciting and stimulating, but behaviors don't necessarily change. You

433
00:36:02.760 --> 00:36:06.440
leave at the end of the day
inspired and you think, look at all

434
00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:10.800
these fabulous women doing these amazing this
amazing work, but what about me and

435
00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:17.480
how does this relate to me?
So we do very individualized, high touch,

436
00:36:17.880 --> 00:36:23.199
cohort based programs, and what I
mean by that is it's the six

437
00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:31.599
month boot camp which has many elements
including executive coaching, three sixty assessment and

438
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:37.280
two other assessments, peer coaching,
and skill building sessions. And it's designed

439
00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:43.480
for very busy women. So we
looked at, Okay, we want to

440
00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:46.760
target this mid level women women.
How do we do this? We need

441
00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:52.760
to make something that they can actually
do because nobody, you know, everybody's

442
00:36:52.800 --> 00:37:00.360
overstretched as it is, So how
can we create something that has real impact

443
00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:07.960
that actually changes behaviors and we measure
before and after and they're excited and wanting

444
00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:15.400
and engaged. So what we did
was we have a program where it has

445
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:20.199
three full day learning sessions. Is
a full day the first month, one

446
00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:22.840
the third month, and then the
sixth month, and then the others are

447
00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:29.360
all virtual. They're two hour sessions
of the second, third, and fifth

448
00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:36.480
month, and we have learning online
through Zoom. The executive coaching is done

449
00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:40.159
through Zoom as well as the peer
groups. And so when we start to

450
00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:46.760
look at what is happening for these
women we say that come to the course.

451
00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:52.400
They're usually they're all identified within a
company. I'll give you an example.

452
00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:59.000
A large financial institution is sending seven
women. They have identified them.

453
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:05.880
They're all executive rectors, they're all
high potentials. They have some staff,

454
00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:09.880
but they know that at some point
in time they want to promote these folks.

455
00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:16.880
So what they're doing is they sent
us these women, and they're viewed

456
00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:22.280
as being really like, this is
a big deal that they're coming to our

457
00:38:22.760 --> 00:38:28.880
H and S accelerate program. They
identify after they look at their three sixty

458
00:38:29.320 --> 00:38:34.639
with a coach, they identify one
behavioral shift that would have the biggest impact

459
00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:39.159
on their leadership development. So I'll
give you a for instance. It could

460
00:38:39.280 --> 00:38:45.360
be related to confidence. I want
to feel confident stepping up and speaking in

461
00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:53.760
leadership meetings and feeling comfortable having one
on ones with my higher ups. It

462
00:38:53.800 --> 00:39:00.719
can be is simple really being clear
on my leadership brand and are particular.

463
00:39:01.480 --> 00:39:07.400
So when they identify something that's individualized
like that and can work with a coach

464
00:39:07.639 --> 00:39:13.679
over the six months, they're able
to really feel like, oh, I'm

465
00:39:13.719 --> 00:39:17.119
stepping out of my comfort zone.
Every month, they're challenged by their peer

466
00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:23.559
group challenged by their coach to try
something new on So by the time six

467
00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:28.440
months happens, so far, every
single one of our women have had some

468
00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:34.199
significant changes in their behaviors and they're
really proud of how they show up that

469
00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:37.119
sit on a high level. I'd
love to tell you a little bit more

470
00:39:37.159 --> 00:39:43.119
about some of the specifics of what
they learn, because in six months you

471
00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:45.800
can only cover so much. Right, go for it, go for it

472
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:51.960
right. So what are the key
things that people need to know? Well,

473
00:39:52.519 --> 00:40:00.320
we start with really looking at self
awareness, looking at who are you?

474
00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:05.360
What do you want in your like
who are you now? We we

475
00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:08.440
call it your current leader self?
And who do you want to become in

476
00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:15.360
ten years? What do you want
your life to look like at that stage?

477
00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:19.400
And then what are the things that
are getting in your way of getting

478
00:40:19.639 --> 00:40:24.880
from from here to there? So
that's pretty practical. The next step is

479
00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:30.559
what do I do really well?
What are those strengths, what are those

480
00:40:30.599 --> 00:40:37.719
passions? What are those blind spots
that I have heard in my three sixty

481
00:40:37.159 --> 00:40:40.440
For any of you who that might
not know what a three sixty is,

482
00:40:40.519 --> 00:40:45.559
a three sixty is when there's a
number of different colleagues and we usually ask

483
00:40:45.639 --> 00:40:52.280
ten colleagues to fill out a survey
about this individual, and they're very focused

484
00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:58.199
on women's competencies and what did this
what does this person do really well and

485
00:40:58.360 --> 00:41:04.760
what would what could they do better
to really become the best leader. So

486
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:08.679
we get this data at the beginning
of the program and it's rich so women

487
00:41:08.760 --> 00:41:12.800
can start to see, oh,
this is how I need to start to

488
00:41:12.840 --> 00:41:17.280
shift my behaviors. After we take
a deep look at who they really are.

489
00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:22.280
We start to talk a lot about
the mindset. I'm very researched.

490
00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:30.079
My research study was on the mind
and creativity and mindfulness and how can we

491
00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:37.320
start to rewire our mind to be
more productive to really help us instead of

492
00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:43.760
having the automatic pilot kick in and
keep us held back. Sounds young me

493
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:46.320
to me, and I resonate with
a lot of what you're offering there and

494
00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:50.400
what's great about what you did there
is for people They're like, well,

495
00:41:50.440 --> 00:41:52.559
what is that? What do you
do to the leadership program? It sounds

496
00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:55.039
kind of soft and squishy. That's
not soft and squishy at all. That's

497
00:41:55.039 --> 00:42:00.440
hard work. So nicely nicely narrated, thank you, it is soft.

498
00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:02.679
It does sound like it could be
soft and squishy, but the thing is

499
00:42:02.760 --> 00:42:07.239
all of a sudden you start to
see it more clearly. And then when

500
00:42:07.239 --> 00:42:14.639
we start to talk about strategic relationship
building, like how do you navigate having

501
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:21.159
conversations with senior level people? Well, who in your organization is important for

502
00:42:21.199 --> 00:42:27.039
you to network with? Then you
understand who you are your leadership brand.

503
00:42:27.239 --> 00:42:30.320
When you're showing up and talking to
these folks. That inner critic that might

504
00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:34.440
say, oh, I'm not smart
enough to talk to that person. They

505
00:42:34.519 --> 00:42:38.199
went to some fancy school, right, so you can start to identify,

506
00:42:38.280 --> 00:42:42.840
oh, this is kicking in for
me, and I wonder how this is

507
00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:46.920
holding me back. It's great,
and here we are, we're getting close

508
00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:49.519
to you to the hour, Ellen, I want to ask you at least

509
00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:51.199
two more questions where we go,
So I'm going to take you to the

510
00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:53.800
next question. That was great.
You mentioned at the top of the show,

511
00:42:53.800 --> 00:42:58.199
and I want to say more about
it here that your programs involve only

512
00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:01.360
women in order to give women were
access to their authenticity so they can mention

513
00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:05.719
more deeply into their purpose. Of
course, you know that lands perfectly for

514
00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:08.840
me. Well, tell us more
about that and how that works. Well,

515
00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:15.840
as I alluded to earlier. The
research has identified that, especially at

516
00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:22.639
this stage within a women's development within
her career, it's important to have women

517
00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:30.480
only in the program. They develop
much more ability to be vulnerable and step

518
00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:35.639
out of their comfort zones and try
on new leadership identities, so it happens

519
00:43:35.679 --> 00:43:43.920
much faster than if they were in
a dual sext group. Yes, I've

520
00:43:43.960 --> 00:43:46.360
seen that too in my programs when
it's only women. The difference is what

521
00:43:46.440 --> 00:43:51.199
I've found is that if it's only
women, we get to things really much

522
00:43:51.199 --> 00:43:54.840
more quickly and more deeply, and
there's the emotional sphere can be fully engaged,

523
00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:59.719
which means women will allow themselves to
be moved to tears or to get

524
00:43:59.719 --> 00:44:02.880
moved move if they're dealing with something
two tiers, which is you know,

525
00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:08.679
growth oftentimes and certainly something that registers, but with men that happens far less

526
00:44:08.800 --> 00:44:14.800
deeply and far less frequently. Yeah
yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah.

527
00:44:15.599 --> 00:44:17.360
Okay, So let me ask you
this. I have two more questions than

528
00:44:17.400 --> 00:44:21.760
I've got time for. So this
is always fun for me because, especially

529
00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:25.400
on the heels of the strategic stuff, but the vision questions. So Ellen,

530
00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:29.960
paint for us a picture and share
your vision of what the world looks

531
00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:34.159
like when you and other professionals like
us to develop more women leaders and increase

532
00:44:34.199 --> 00:44:38.039
their priority with men. What does
that look like? Well, when we

533
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:45.639
have more diversity of thought at the
top of whether it's our government, our

534
00:44:45.719 --> 00:44:52.440
organizations, our societies at home,
I really see it being so much more

535
00:44:52.519 --> 00:45:00.559
innovative, happier workplaces, cultures where
people are really thriving, and there's a

536
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:05.760
moral code that drives our behaviors.
Overall, it leads to just a happier

537
00:45:05.800 --> 00:45:10.159
place to be. I see the
same thing. Yes, yes, I

538
00:45:10.159 --> 00:45:15.000
see the same thing. And I
think it also reduces the fear. There's

539
00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:17.360
a lot of fear that exists in
the workplace today. I'm not blaming that

540
00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:21.760
on men, but I think there's
a way to orient away from that.

541
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:25.159
So I think that will that makes
such a difference when we can actually work

542
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:30.920
from a collaborative, innovative way than
maybe where we're competing against each other.

543
00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:36.800
Absolutely, yes, absolutely, So
Okay, I do have time for one

544
00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:39.079
more question here. So I wanted
to go back to this before, and

545
00:45:39.079 --> 00:45:42.440
I skipped over because we were kind
of running out of time. But it's

546
00:45:42.480 --> 00:45:46.599
the negotiation question. So you had
said that one of the things that you'd

547
00:45:46.599 --> 00:45:50.360
like to be able to help women
with is help them develop their abilities to

548
00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:52.559
negotiate. Can you just quickly speak
to that. How you do that?

549
00:45:52.639 --> 00:45:59.760
Sure? Yeah, well, so
okay, women often don't know they're in

550
00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:07.239
a negotiations. That's a rare problem, right, they don't. Men have

551
00:46:07.400 --> 00:46:13.320
more practice at negotiation because it's subtle. It's not just when you're going for

552
00:46:13.320 --> 00:46:20.000
a job interview. They are always
opportunities for negotiations. So being super aware.

553
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:22.159
I'm just going to say that's the
number one thing. Be super aware

554
00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:29.199
that actually this is an opportunity for
me to negotiate more time off or more

555
00:46:29.280 --> 00:46:35.400
help on that particular project. So
you say yes, and yes, I'll

556
00:46:35.400 --> 00:46:39.440
take on that project if I can
have, you know, an extra assistant

557
00:46:39.800 --> 00:46:45.320
or whatever. So it's to be
very clear about what you're walking into.

558
00:46:46.519 --> 00:46:50.119
I think that's fantastic. I think
just what you said about we didn't not

559
00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:53.519
recognize that we're actually in a negotiation
is very powerful, So be more alert

560
00:46:53.559 --> 00:46:58.320
to that. So here we are
at the end of the show already,

561
00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:00.800
Ellen, I do like to give
my guests the last word whenever I possibly

562
00:47:00.840 --> 00:47:05.400
can, So you know, this
program is intended to help people across the

563
00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:07.679
world develop more meaning, passion,
inspiration, and purpose across their lives and

564
00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:12.519
in their work. What would you
like to leave our listeners with today,

565
00:47:13.320 --> 00:47:20.039
I'd like to leave them with take
the time to step out of your incredibly

566
00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:25.880
busy lives and reflect on what you
really want, What is your purpose,

567
00:47:27.719 --> 00:47:32.519
what matters most to you in your
life, and what is getting in your

568
00:47:32.519 --> 00:47:40.039
way of you getting there? Become
mindful about your actions, because when we

569
00:47:40.119 --> 00:47:46.800
can make our actions conscious and get
out of autopilot, we can really live

570
00:47:46.840 --> 00:47:52.440
a much fuller life. What a
beautiful way to finish, Dasher Keith line

571
00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:55.800
Burn. What a beautiful way I
mean. I appreciate so much your passion,

572
00:47:57.119 --> 00:48:00.519
your inspiration, your competency, your
talent. Thank you sharing it with

573
00:48:00.559 --> 00:48:05.639
us today. Thank you for having
me alis nur So. Welcome listeners.

574
00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:07.239
If you want to learn more about
doctor Ellen kithline Burn and the work she

575
00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:12.800
and her team do at to develop
women leaders, go to her New Standard

576
00:48:13.039 --> 00:48:15.119
dot com. Last week, if
you missed the live show, you can

577
00:48:15.159 --> 00:48:20.000
always catch a recorded podcast. We
were on the air with Tom Holsey,

578
00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:23.400
who shared his journey of combating and
conquering prostate cancer and how doing so ushered

579
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:28.400
in his passion to serve as a
philanthropist to others living with cancer. Incredibly

580
00:48:28.440 --> 00:48:31.920
inspiring and really reinforces the power of
self transcendence to keep keeping on because you

581
00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:36.039
want to be around for those you
love. Next week, we'll be on

582
00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:39.239
the air with jin Ya Huang,
who I personally saw present her tedex talk

583
00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:45.320
at SMU on her social enterprise called
break Bread break Boarders. We didn't tell

584
00:48:45.320 --> 00:48:46.960
you hear how she came up with
this idea and how thoughtfully she had stitched

585
00:48:47.000 --> 00:48:51.960
the concept thread across several critical parts
of our identity to make the world a

586
00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:54.000
better and more connected place. So
you there, remember that work is at

587
00:48:54.039 --> 00:49:02.079
least one third of our lives.
So let's work on purpose. We hope

588
00:49:02.079 --> 00:49:07.360
you've enjoyed this week's program. Be
sure to tune in to Working on Purpose

589
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:13.039
featuring your host Alice Cortez, each
week on the Voice America Empowerment Channel.

590
00:49:13.559 --> 00:49:15.719
This week, find your life's purpose
at work