Getting Real on Race at Work Like Your Business Depends on It

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What's working on purpose anyway? Each
week we ponder the answer to this question.

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People ache for meaning and purpose at
work, to contribute their talents passionately

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and know their lives really matter.
They crave being part of an organization that

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inspires them and helps them grow into
realizing their highest potential business can be such

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a force for good in the world, elevating humanity. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration to help
usher in this world we all want Working

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on purpose. Now. Here is
your host, doctor Elise Cortes. Welcome

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back to the Working on Purpose Program. Thanks for tuning in this week.

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I'm your host, Doctor Reli's Cortes. Join you live from Dallas, which

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is home base for me. If
you don't know me yet, I'm a

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management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose, organizational local therapist, inspirational speaker,

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social scientist, and author. My
team and I help companies discover and articulate

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their purpose and throw it through their
culture and ours. We work with forward

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thinking or forward reaching organizations to develop
inspirational leaders who create cultures where people actually

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want to come to work and do
their best, and we provide programs like

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the gravir gusta that enable individual team
members to discover and unleash their passion and

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purpose at work to catalyze fulfillment,
engagement, and productivity. You can learn

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more about us and now we can
work together at aliscortes dot com. With

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us today is Kelly MacDonald, a
professional speaker and expert on diversity in business.

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She's authored four best selling books on
marketing, the customer experience, and

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leadership, all from the standpoint of
working with people not like you. We'll

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be talking about her newest book,
It's Time to Talk about Race at Work.

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Every Leader's Guide in making progress on
diversity, equity and inclusion. She's

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known today from Denver, Colorado.
Kelly, Welcome to Working on Purpose.

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Thank you, Hi Elise, thanks
for having me. Hi. Absolutely,

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I'm thrilled to have you, and
thank you Joanne for bringing us together.

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Magnif is a human being that she
is love. So I really appreciate the

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conversation we're going to have today,
Kelly, because, as I said where

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we got on air together, you
really do address diversity and race from a

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really fresh vantage point, not from
thou should should or should anything like that,

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or active activist or hr speak,
it's real and it's just it's frontline

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stuff, and so I really appreciate
the work that you're doing, and especially

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as a white person doing this work, right, thank you? Yes?

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Yeah. Yeah. So let's start
off first by distinguished a couple of really

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important terms. You talk about bias
and prejudice. So if you would distinguish

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those terms for us. Sure,
a lot of people conflate the two words

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and they think they're synonymous and they're
actually completely different. Bias means preference for

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Okay, so if like, for
example, a lot of my friends have

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kids, and they'll say something like, you know, all the kids on

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my soccer team, you know,
my kid's soccer team are just terrific,

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But forgive me, I'm biased toward
my own child. Right, So that's

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a perfect example of using by us
in the correct way. It means preference

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for So obviously that parent has a
preference for their kid. They can't be

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completely, you know, unbiased about
their child. But it doesn't mean that

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they hate the other kids. They're
just simply saying, I just I just

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like my kid, and I'm bias. Prejudice is an action, So bias

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is in all of us. We
actually have all of us, every single

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one of us, have bias.
It's not a it's not prejudice. Prejudice

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is an action, and prejudice is
learned. Bias is innate in all of

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us. If you think about it
from an anthropological standpoint, bias is probably

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what kept us safe as primitive peoples. We lived in tribes and communities with

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people who are probably a lot like
us because it kept us safe and it

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was relevant for human survival. So
we all do have biases, and in

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business, what is important is to
understand that we all have those and to

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work around those. Now, prejudice, I think has no place anywhere,

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but what I think a lot of
people conflate those two things and they say,

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oh my gosh, if you tell
me I'm biased, I'm going to

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get my gloves up and I'm going
to get defensive because I'm not biased.

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And what they really are saying is
I'm not prejudiced. So we just need

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to make that distinction. Beautiful,
great way to start, Kelly. Okay,

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so now speaking of you know,
putting the gloves up, we got

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to talk about your opening chapter,
which is just brilliant. It's just right

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out of the gate it's called this
chapter one this book is, and it's

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called this book is for everyone,
but especially white readers. And it's so

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important, you know I and listen, listen, viewers and listeners as you

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go into this conversation with us,
be with us, right, So we

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want to presence this material in a
really different fresh way for you. So

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one of the things that I really
want to share and echo with you,

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Kelly, is that what you really
are saying in that chapter is that you

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know, even as much as white
people really want to be inclusive and understanding

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and appreciative, they just really can't
understand what it is to be a non

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white person is today's world. And
so you say things like, you know,

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you know all this took about articles, books and training it on d

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D and I are great. But
if you're white and you listen to somewhat

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of another race or background describe their
first hand, personal day to day experiences,

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it's eye opening. And you go
on to say, because the terrible

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things that happen to black, Brown, Asian, lgbt t Q plus Jewish

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Asian and Muslim or any minority for
that matter, just typically don't happen to

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whites, and we can't imagine how
bad it is or how often it happens,

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and we can't comprehend the chronic tool
that it takes on a person.

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So I wanted to get all that
out because I just can't understand it if

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you haven't been in those shoes,
right, And that's where I think from

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a business standpoint, especially white people
at work and white executives, they struggle

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with a little bit because they're kind
of like, is this really that big

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of a deal, because it doesn't
happen to us, So it doesn't seem

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like that bing, right, And
I can tell you that, you know,

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maybe I've been discriminated against in my
life at least as a woman,

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but I'm not even sure I have, you know, And so it doesn't

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happen to us. And when you
do hear those stories from friends and colleagues,

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and you realize, holy smokes,
this is happening everywhere. I have

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a friend of mine who's Taiwanese and
she was telling me that, and she

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lives in Cincinnati, and she was
telling me that she went out for a

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run one day and someone threw food
at her. Now, no one has

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ever thrown food at me from a
crime, right, it just doesn't happen.

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It just doesn't happen. And my
boxing coach is black, and he

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was telling me the boxing gym where
I work out is in a strip shopping

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center that has like a Joeanne fabrics
and an Ace hardware and stuff. And

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he was telling me that when he
parks his car and gets out, or

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when he's coming out of the gym
and walking to his car, he can

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hear all the door locks in the
parking lot clicking. These old ladies who

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our guests are afraid he's going to
car jack them, and you know,

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and I pushed back on him.
I'm like, really, you're a forty

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eight year old man dressed in jim
clothes carrying a Duffel bag walking out of

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a gym, and he's, you
know, he's pretty ripped, you know.

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So it's like pretty obvious he's been
working out. And he goes,

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I guess they think I'm a criminal, you know, And I'm like,

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oh my gosh, that doesn't happen
to me, and it doesn't happen to

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other guy friends of mine. Mm
hmm. Yeah. The story I want

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to share this is this is recent, like within the last I don't know

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let's call it six months. A
black friend of mine, professional man,

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he was out working in one of
the southern states of the United States,

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out in more of a real area, at seven o'clock in the morning on

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a weekday, and somebody yelled the
inward at him and fired a shot in

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his direction. Fired a shot because
Jory gets a fire a gun, shot

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with a with a gun, so
he was able to yeah, they were

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going to kill him. He could
have lost his life that day. No,

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wait, it gets there's more.
And so literally he goes through that

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whole process of you know, filing
to complaint with the police, and also

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the whole thing. The guy actually
did go to jail, where it's pertinent

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to this conversation. Your reaction is
very, very distinctly different than my friend.

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I was then running with a dear
friend of mine, a white man

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who I've known for years some tremendous
respect. Fore told him the story,

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and his response was, that's unfortunate, unfortunate, unfortunate when your flight is

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delayed, right, you know.
I was like, so that's what we

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mean by you just don't get it. If you're white, you just don't

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get this. Now and here the
same friend of mine tells me, this

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guy's a big guy. He tells
me he cries when he gets pulled over

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by faith. He cries. I
have a friend who's also black, and

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he's like, you know, he's
always saying, you know, like you

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know, black wall driving and he's
like, if you get pulled over by

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the police and you're a black,
especially a black man, he said,

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it's you know, hands on the
wheel, and he said, it's life

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or it's potentially life or death,
right beating. He goes, you're going

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to go face down on that ground, like you wouldn't believe. Yeah,

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And he has actually yeah. He
also has also has been hit in the

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back of the head and had to
have you know, stitches to clean it

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up. I mean, so this
is real, ladies and gentlemen, this

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is real. This is the world. And one or a real quick example.

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A friend of mine is Muslim and
she wears a he jab and she

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said, you know, why do
people think it's okay to just try to

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grab my he jab off of me
and yank it off of me? She

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goes, when you're wearing a Christian
cross on your neck, I don't yank

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it off of you. And I
thought Wow, we display you know we

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I'm not Christian or anything really,
but I mean like Christians display their faith

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all the time. We are very
used to that in this country. So

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why when someone else displays their faith, does that make us feel like we

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can assault them? I mean it's
like, yeah, it's such an This

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is so so important the work that
you're doing, Kelly. It's just I

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just so so want to invite more
people on the fall, which is why

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I totally wanted to have you on
the on the show, and the show

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is listened to by people across the
world, so so so so so important.

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So now let's take it and let's
take it on a more granular level

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here, Kelly. One of the
things that we do from the story,

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but I know I saw the visceral
response I did. It was incredible.

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Yeah, it makes my blood pressure
go up. So but you do a

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beautiful job in your book of really
bringing this to home for us by helping

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people understand just what it feels like
to be discriminated against like this. And

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so I don't know if you want
to share the story or if you want

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me to share it, to read
it, read it, but talk about

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that. If you would you can
say, make see it and I'll feel

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more in You know what it feels
like when you're a kid and you're on

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the playground and you don't get picked, right. You know, I hope

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that many of your listeners and viewers
have not experienced this. But you know,

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when I was a kid, there
were teams at recess and people would

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pick the teams. And you know, if you were that kid who was

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last picked, picked last, or
not picked at all, you know,

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imagine what that feels like to go
through that every day because you understand that

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nobody wants you as a kid,
nobody wants you on the tape. They

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picked you last, and even if
they picked you last, in many cases,

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they picked you because they had to, right, And that's not acceptance,

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that's compliance, right. So when
I think about those organizations where they're

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going diversity, the equity, inclusion, and some manager in there and going

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is in there, going okay,
I guess this is what we're doing now,

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you know again, that's not acceptance, that's compliance, right. You

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know, if you can remember back
to being a kid, and maybe being

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that kid, I know I was
a couple of times where no one wanted

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me and that feeling of isolation and
that feeling of like, why don't they

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want me? I'm the same age, we're in the same classroom. Why

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don't they want me? Right?
And how isolating that is and how cool

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it is and the scars and the
marks that they can leave on you.

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And then I grew out of that, at least because I was a kid.

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I grew out of that. So
imagine never growing out of that.

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Imagine walking with that every day of
your life for the rest of your life,

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even as a grown up. Mm
hmmm. That really brings at home,

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Kelly, You know that really and
the way you distinguish, you know,

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the thing about compliance, et cetera. It's just so so important and

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checking the box. You know,
we're doing this kind of thing, you

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know, so when you talk about
this is what we're really getting to here

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and this you do this beautifully here. So when you can stand there and

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listen to this, now, imagine
you're talking to somebody who're somebody sharing this

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with you, listens for you,
listeners and viewers. So imagine this so

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you're and if you're really committed to
a team that's diverse and creating that space

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for you, and if you're white. It starts with flexing your own empathy

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muscle, as you say in the
book, and thinking about what work must

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feel like for these people. So
I think that that ability to be able

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to reach across and into someone to
understand their space. I don't know how

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how often it happens, but I
got to believe that when it does happen,

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it's pretty amazing. It is.
And I think one of the things

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that is white people And I'm just
going to go here at least. Okay,

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okay, let's do it. Bring
it all right, I'm just going

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to go here because that's how I
am. I think that one of the

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things that is really hard for white
people, and I'm included in that,

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and I've worked very hard to learn
skills in this area is to not interrupt,

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downplay, or refute someone else's experiences
that are real that happened, or

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are happening or continue to happen.
And what I think what happens is we're

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horrified by the experiences that some people
tell us, you know, like when

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my friend Irene said someone threw food
at me when I was out for a

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run, Like I'm just I have
no words for that. I don't know,

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you know, what to say or
anything like that. And I think

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sometimes that what we what were our
instinct is to not squirm like it's making

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a squirm so much, it's so
uncomfortable that we tend to try to either

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downplay or refute it and say things
like, well, you know, that

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was a long time ago. At
least that kind of thing wouldn't happen anymore,

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you know, in today's world,
or well, that was a really

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bad group of people, you know. Not everyone's like that, And I

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think it's a huge mistake to take
anyone's experience and refute it or now replay

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it. I think what we have
to do is live with the squirm.

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I think actually, when we're squirming, we're getting somewhere, And what our

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job is to do is listen and
maybe even extract more and say do you

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want to tell me more about that? You know, and really listen,

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And that's the empathy muscle, is
like, I'm so sorry that that happened

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to you. Do you do you
want to tell me more about that?

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How did that feel? What did
you do? And not shove it aside,

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try to put it on the table
with them and say, let's talk

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about this if you want to.
That's horrible. You know, I can't

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even imagine. And it's about acknowledging
it. And I think, you know,

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many of my diverse friends have said
white people are so uncomfortable with this.

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They just don't even want to acknowledge
it. They just want to change

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the subject. You know. It's
like, and I get it. It

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is scormy because that doesn't happen to
us, right, and so it makes

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us squirm. But I've really come
to believe that when we're sworming, we're

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getting somewhere and there's value in the
squirm. Completely agree. So with that,

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let's grab our first break. So
ladies and gentlemen across the world squirm

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while we're on break, please,
I'm your host, Doctor Release Cortez.

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We run there with Kelly McDonald.
She's the author of It's Time to Talk

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about Race at Work. We've been
talking a bit about the issue, what's

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going on with the race, what
does it feel like to be someone else,

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someone different to work with? After
the rick, we'reen start talking about

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why all white or mostly white businesses
make less money. Staying with us,

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We'll be right back, Doctor Elise
Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

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and purpose and inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies visioneer for greater purpose

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among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership
and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment,

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performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite Elise

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to speak to your organization, please
visit her at elisecortes dot com. Let's

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00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:14.600
talk about how to get your employees
working on purpose. This is Working on

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00:16:14.679 --> 00:16:18.559
Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To
reach our program today or open a conversation

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00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:26.559
with Alise, send an email to
a lease Alise at elisecortes dot com.

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Now back to Working on Purpose.
Thankteresting with us, and welcome back to

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the program. Before we get back
into the content, I want to invite

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you to check out my book,
Purpose Ignited. I wrote it in November

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00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:40.360
of twenty twenty. That's what it
came out, I should say, And

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I really wrote it to awaken readers
to their passion and their purpose and turn

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them into inspirational leaders that can actually
elevate the experience of the work of their

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people and really do business that betters
the world. It's on Amazon. You

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can find it there. I also
use that content for my vitally inspired programs

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00:16:55.519 --> 00:16:59.000
and the Gust to Wrap your Guster
programs as well if you're just joining the

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program. Now. My guest is
Llan McDonald's. She's a professional speaker and

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expert on diversity in business. She's
the author of It's Time to Talk About

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00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:08.680
Race. I'm your host, doctor
Relie's Cortes. So this has already been

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a vibrant, energetic exchange. Now
let's talk about money, shall we.

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Let's talk about money. Let's talk
about business. It's really quite interesting and

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I find this really really fascinating here
and this is where we start getting into

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the science of this whole thing too, just beyond the art, if you

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will, the cost of bias.
You talk about and you say, you

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talk about why all white or mostly
white businesses make less money. Can you

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say more about that? That's fascinating, sure, I mean, it's actually

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even more profound when a business is
successful. So what happens is when everybody

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is largely the same. So I'll
just use whiteness like you said. I

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mean, but it could be generational
different, you know, it could be

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different in generations or the same generation
except when everybody kind of comes from the

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same place, then they largely will
tend to have the same views. There

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isn't anybody there to offer up a
different view and anybody to say, well,

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you know, I don't think that
we should do that because this or

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this, or hey, what if
we did this instead? There's never that

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outside perspective and diversity, whether it's
the color of your scan, the shape

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of your eyes, you know,
the gender that you are, or the

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non binary or you know how old
you are, whatever it is, that's

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the bedrock of innovation. So what
happens is when you have a group of

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people who are alike, they actually
can be very successful, which actually leads

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to why should we change anything.
We're killing it over here, you know.

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But long term, those companies make
less money. And that's been proven.

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And it's also been proven that diverse
teams outperform non diverse teams on every

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metric that business success is measured,
customer service, customer loyalty, employee engagement,

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employee absenteeism. Diverse teams actually have
their people come to work more often,

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profits, say, bills, retention, you name it, every single

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metric that you can go What would
a successful business look like diverse teams outperform

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them. So if you have an
all white team, you know, I'm

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not here to say shame on you, or it's just one of those things

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going forward that you might want to
think about. Is you have natural attrition,

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or people retire or whatever is try
bringing in some diverse talent, whether

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it's women, whether it's younger people, whether it's people of color. It's

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really important. It will actually make
your business grow. It's been proven.

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Yeah, so what's interesting to me
about that? And I wish I could

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some of the exact example that I
have, but I remember distinctly to this

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end. There was an organization that
was putting out some kind of a new

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product and they had a largely white
workforce and they somebody said something like,

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maybe we should get some of the
perspectives here. So I forget where they

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found these different people, but they
brought in different groups of minority and one

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of some of the some of the
black people that they brought in, said,

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oh, we would never buy through
that channel. That's not how we

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would do it. That's not what's
not how things are done for us.

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What's your channel? And they told
them, well, it's this, Oh,

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we would have never done that.
I was like a money order or

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something like that. I can't remember
what it was, but that is a

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perfect example of oh, well,
we just that's not how we do it,

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that's not how we're socialized to do
it. I can give you another

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great example real quick, because I
live in Denver, so the ski industry

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here is absolutely huge. It's the
media out there, A great story in

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the book by the way, fantastic. So up until the nineties, the

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ski industry, well late nineties,
the ski industry was mostly affluent boomers and

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white and what they found was that
the number of skiers every year was declining.

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You're over your over year, fewer
skiers, okay, so that's fewer

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passes and you know all that.
And what they found was that the boomers

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were getting older and maybe if you've
had a knee replacement, it's not such

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a good idea to go skiing,
or maybe critis and stuff. So it

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was a natural outcome of an aging
customer group. Yet they had nobody else

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to replace that because young skiers when
they talked to them and they did do

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research, which was awesome, they
found that, you know, they looked

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at skiing as like their parents' sport, Like, why would I want to

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do that? What they wanted to
do was snowboard, but at the time,

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snowboarding was not allowed on the ski
slope, so if you wanted to

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snowboard, you actually had to trek
into the back country and ski. Furthermore,

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they found out that day passes were
very expensive for young people. The

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equipment itself was expensive, whether you
buy it or rent it. The whole

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thing was a barrier to young skiers, you know, from the cost of

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it, to the fact that it
was like their icky parents, you know,

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sport or whatever, and to the
fact that you couldn't they weren't allowed

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to snowboard on the same hills.
And so what they did was change all

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of that. They worked with the
equipment manufacturers and the renters and that kind

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of stuff to bring down the cost. They came out of really exceptional value

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packages for skiing, and they opened
up the ski slopes to borders okay snowboarders.

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So the thing is that perspective would
never ever have come to them.

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They would never have known why they're
not getting new customers if they hadn't talked

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to them. They did focus groups
with young people and they were like,

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what's holding you back from skiing?
And they were like this, this,

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this, this, this, Well, all those things are fixable once you

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know about them, but you can't
fix what you what you don't know.

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It's a gorgeous example of calling.
Yeah, it's a gorgeous example. Perfect

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brings it right home. Okay,
So now let's get into some of the

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reasons companies or leaders give for a
lack of diversity. This is just like

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blows me out out of the water, and we were all going to recognize

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these things. One that you first
say is there are no women are people

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of color in this field, and
they just don't They just don't come to

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this field. Right, Well,
they don't come to the field because they

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may not even know the field exists. And you certainly have and put the

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welcome that out. So in marketing, and I have a marketing background,

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what we always say is I can't
choose crust toothpaste if crust is not on

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the shelf. Right, So if
I go my toothpaste and that's my toothpaste,

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then there's nothing but Colgate. I
can't buy crust if it's not there.

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So the analogy here would be people
are drawn to the things that interest

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them, but they're they are that
they are also exposed to. So I'm

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not going to just wake up one
day and go, you know what,

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I think, I'm going to go
work for this chemical engineering company, you

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know, unless I know somebody who
works there, or that's not even on

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my radar. So companies end up
staying not diverse because they end up hiring

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from the same pools of people and
doing the same way at the same job

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fares or whatever they're doing. And
then that's why they go, well,

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we're trying to get more diverse people, but at our job fairs, we

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just don't get anything. It's like, because you've been doing the job fair

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in the same place, in the
same way, you haven't actually done any

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outreach to anyone. And it's not
true that there are no women or people

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of color that are not It's not
true that they're not there. They're there.

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They don't even know that you're there. So you've got to put the

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welcome that out and say, hey, we're not very diverse and we'd like

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to change that, and we're looking
for people to help us do that work,

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and we would like to talk to
you. But you have to go.

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You have to go get that.
That's outreach. They're not going to

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just you know, pick you because
they don't even know you exist, Right,

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show me your door. Okay.
Then then this this next one that

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you talk about. We could go
on and on with these different different lists

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here, but this one we really
have to talk about. This is this

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is so so important. This other
excuse for this reason that companies might lack

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for diversity, Well, they might
say something like that guy is a bit

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racist, but he brings in a
lot of money for it from so we

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just ignore him. Yeah, that's
that's a really ugly one because you know,

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I think everybody probably knows somebody like
that who is a high per person,

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especially in sales or productivity or something, and so they tolerate the inexcusable

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racist, sexist, offensive comments that
that person makes because by gosh, they

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make money. But what you're really
doing is selling your soul. You know,

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if you do that as a company, what you're saying is really profit

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and money comes before humanity and doing
the right thing and being the right people.

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And we're okay with that. And
I think in today's world, as

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business goes, society goes, and
it's up to us in business to not

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00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:29.720
only be better and do better.
And almost every company I've ever talked to

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says like, yeah, we want
to do better and be better. Show

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00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:41.720
us how. And by keeping a
racist, sexist, offensive person without being

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00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:44.359
checked, I mean, you can
talk to that person and say we have

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00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:47.880
a zero tolerance policy here. Okay, so then it's been addressed. But

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00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:48.720
if you don't and you're just kind
of going, well, you know,

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00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:51.799
I don't want to rock the boat
with that guy. We wouldn't want him

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00:25:51.799 --> 00:25:56.160
to leave because he's a he's such
a money maker. Your values are on

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00:25:56.240 --> 00:26:02.079
display and not in a good way. And I think it's just I think

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00:26:02.119 --> 00:26:06.160
personally it's morally wrong. But I
also think from a purely business standpoint,

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if you don't want to go there
and you just go business, that will

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00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:14.519
not work long term because people do
want to see a business's soul and they

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00:26:14.519 --> 00:26:17.720
have a lot of means to do
so and in a lot of ways.

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And so when I say as business
goes, society goes, well, think

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00:26:21.559 --> 00:26:23.880
about like sustainability. You know,
ten years ago nobody was really talking about

399
00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:26.480
sustainability. I just bought a pair
of jeens the other day that had a

400
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:30.400
tag on them that said these genes
have been made from recycled plastic bottles,

401
00:26:30.440 --> 00:26:34.079
and I was like, huh.
But it made me have a positive imprint

402
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:37.599
of that company because I was like, Wow, not only are these cute

403
00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:42.319
genes, but like, they're the
good guys you so as and business was

404
00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:45.680
the first to do that. So
as business is putting sustainability in our minds,

405
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:49.079
then we're putting sustainability in our minds
and going oh okay, yeah sure.

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And it's the same thing with diversity, equity inclusion. Is businesses put

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more prioritize more of a priority on
this, then people are going, well,

408
00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:00.559
yeah, that's the right thing to
do. So I would say,

409
00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:06.400
take a really hard look at your
values and your mission statement and ask who

410
00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:10.359
you are and then say, does
this person reflect the values that this company

411
00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:12.279
wants to be on display for?
Is that really where we want to plant

412
00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:15.240
our flag? Yeah? And do
we want to go ahead and attract more

413
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:18.720
people like that to work with us? Yeah? And that's that's the other

414
00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:21.920
part of it, is you're going
to attract other people? Are you going

415
00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:23.559
to run people off that don't want
to be around that, or you're going

416
00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:26.079
to attract more people that say,
oh, this is how they behave.

417
00:27:26.119 --> 00:27:30.359
That's me. I'll take that.
And another thing is if there are people

418
00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:33.440
at that company who don't behave like
that, the message that it sends to

419
00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:37.519
them is Wow, somebody can be
like that here and it's okay, m

420
00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:42.400
that's who we are here. And
you're going to lose the good people who

421
00:27:42.440 --> 00:27:45.079
can't stand that and want nothing to
do with that, and you're going to

422
00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:49.640
be left with this group of pretty
awful people, you know. And you

423
00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:55.039
know, maybe if that doesn't bother
you, hey have at it. But

424
00:27:55.079 --> 00:28:00.680
I think most companies would be just
appalled if if that's what the company was

425
00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:03.000
viewed as, and we can do
better than that, which is going to

426
00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:07.559
get us into the next piece here. So here's where I really want to

427
00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:11.920
help our listeners and our viewers.
You know, we all need to All

428
00:28:11.960 --> 00:28:15.319
the time, we'll say unintentional offensive
things, things I didn't understand how it

429
00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:18.720
was coming across to the other person. And so I want to talk about

430
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:22.920
a couple of these that are pretty
common here and about why they they're problematic.

431
00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:26.000
So the first one you talk about
when people say things like, especially

432
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:30.319
a white person says this, I
don't see color or other color. Client.

433
00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:36.039
Why is that so problematic, Kelly? It's problematic because our color is

434
00:28:36.079 --> 00:28:38.039
one of the most obvious things about
us. Okay, So to say I

435
00:28:38.079 --> 00:28:42.000
don't see color, first of all, it's just not true. And secondly,

436
00:28:42.519 --> 00:28:48.799
what it really is doing is dismissing
the other person's personhood. Okay.

437
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:52.079
So like if I'm talking to you, and let's say you're black, and

438
00:28:52.119 --> 00:28:52.880
I said, well, you know, I don't see color, what I'm

439
00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:56.599
really trying to communicate is I'm not
racist, but that that's not what I

440
00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:00.680
said. I said I don't see
color, And so that person of color

441
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:03.440
is going to feel like, well, you're not actually acknowledging all that I

442
00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:07.119
am and all that I bring to
the table and the experiences that I've had

443
00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:11.839
in the perspective that I have because
you've refused to see it, or how

444
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:15.880
can you fix some of the problems
that we have internally here at this company

445
00:29:15.880 --> 00:29:22.160
if you don't even acknowledge that I'm
different from you right in water in any

446
00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:26.119
way. And again I think the
intention is good, which is someone who's

447
00:29:26.119 --> 00:29:30.400
trying to say I don't see color. But I think what we have to

448
00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:33.160
say is you know, I see
the differences, and I want your perspective

449
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:38.359
and the obvious things about us.
There's nothing wrong with acknowledging the fact that

450
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:41.920
someone's brown and I'm white, and
you're gay, and you're you know,

451
00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:45.279
older, and you're whatever. I
mean, it just it doesn't those are

452
00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:48.359
That's who we are, and who
we are is not anything to be ashamed

453
00:29:48.440 --> 00:29:52.799
of or tiptoed around. It's who
we are. Yeah, I think the

454
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:55.519
way I want to distinguish this is, you know, you'd say that in

455
00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:56.839
the book, you say that when
people say things like that, he can

456
00:29:56.880 --> 00:30:00.839
come across as hollow because people,
especially white people, just don't have those

457
00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:04.200
experiences like we've been talking about.
So more interestingly, it would be to

458
00:30:04.279 --> 00:30:08.240
reach across and try to understand what
is your perspective? You know, I

459
00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:11.240
know that you're different than me.
You have a look at your I love

460
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:15.279
like for me, Like I'm very
drawn to people who show differently from me.

461
00:30:15.319 --> 00:30:18.200
I can get myself into all kinds
of trouble because I make a B

462
00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:22.359
line for them, right, They're
like, leave me alone kind of thing?

463
00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:26.160
That interesting I do. I mean, that's what happens. And but

464
00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:27.920
anyway, so it wouldn't be more
interesting and productive. But we could say,

465
00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:32.519
you know, wow, what's your
perspective on this matter versus I I

466
00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:36.920
don't see color? Right? Yeah, it just doesn't ring true. Yeah,

467
00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:40.240
it's it's almost like you're just denying
the whole situation, like you said.

468
00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:42.920
So. Well, then the other
one really quick to talk about is

469
00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:48.839
when people just say things like I'm
not racist or biased, and especially when

470
00:30:48.839 --> 00:30:51.720
white people say I'm not a racist, it can come it can come across

471
00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:55.119
as hollow. So when people just
say that phrase I'm not a racist,

472
00:30:55.599 --> 00:30:57.279
well, and I agree because first
of all, I think a lot of

473
00:30:57.279 --> 00:31:02.039
people, a lot of white people, actually have no idea what racism is

474
00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:04.359
like. If like they truly think
they're not racist, they don't even know

475
00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:10.599
what it what it's like to be
racist or what it's like to experience racism.

476
00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:14.720
I should say, okay, so
in my experience too, and again

477
00:31:14.759 --> 00:31:18.200
I'm just going to go there releases
every time every time I have ever heard

478
00:31:18.200 --> 00:31:22.960
that in my life, I'm not
racist. Comm up, but there's a

479
00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:29.480
button what follows is totally racist.
I was actually just at a speaking engagement

480
00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:32.039
the other you know, a couple
of weeks ago and we got to the

481
00:31:32.079 --> 00:31:33.519
Q and A part and there was
a guy in the audience who raised his

482
00:31:33.559 --> 00:31:37.160
hand and he had a question and
his but he started his question with,

483
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:41.359
I don't have a racist bone in
my body, Comma, you know,

484
00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:42.640
and I'm waiting for the drop,
you know, I'm waiting for the Oh,

485
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:45.559
what's it gonna say? And someone
else called him on it. Someone

486
00:31:45.559 --> 00:31:48.960
else said he said, I don't
have a racist bone in my body,

487
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:51.759
and the guy said, yeah,
you do. It's like, because if

488
00:31:51.799 --> 00:31:55.000
you're really not racist, why would
you preface that that's what you're going to

489
00:31:55.079 --> 00:32:00.519
say? Was I'm not racist?
Right? Right? So you don't even

490
00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:04.559
know. I think sometimes what the
offensive things that we're saying. One quick

491
00:32:04.599 --> 00:32:07.880
story, a friend of mine who's
black and a woman, was telling me

492
00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:10.240
that she started wearing her hair natural
at work. Okay, so one of

493
00:32:10.279 --> 00:32:15.680
her white counterparts or whatever said her
work said to her at work one day,

494
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:20.960
Oh, you're wearing your hair natural
now? And she said yeah,

495
00:32:21.440 --> 00:32:23.279
And then there was this pause and
the white woman said, so are you

496
00:32:23.319 --> 00:32:28.960
gonna wear it like that to the
client meeting on Friday? Now? Does

497
00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:31.319
that person think that that's that they're
racist? I'm going to say not.

498
00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:37.039
But that was sure a racist comment
because what your money is your hair?

499
00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:40.720
Your hair is unacceptable. Excuse me, it's my hair, you know,

500
00:32:40.839 --> 00:32:45.200
I mean, it's just and I
just think anything anytime you have to say,

501
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:49.480
I'm not racist, and then the
next word is, but trust me

502
00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:52.519
that what's coming out of your mouth
is very racist or offensive. Yeah.

503
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:55.680
So all this for us just to
presence, you know, for all of

504
00:32:55.759 --> 00:33:00.880
us to recognize, just start to
recognize what we're saying and be open to

505
00:33:01.359 --> 00:33:05.880
recognizing how it doesn't work, why
it's offensive. That's the whole hold gist

506
00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:09.119
here. So let's grab our last
break here go so fast. I'm your

507
00:33:09.160 --> 00:33:12.720
host, doctor release Cortes. We've
go on the year with Kelly McDonald,

508
00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:15.640
the author of It's Time to Talk
About Race at Work. We've been talking

509
00:33:15.640 --> 00:33:20.160
a bit about some of the problems
that come with racism and those things around

510
00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:22.720
it at work. After the break, we're going to talk more about her

511
00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:27.279
methodology to starting conversations about racism in
the workplace. Stay with us, we'll

512
00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:31.640
be right back. Doctor Elise Cortes
is a management consultant specializing in meaning and

513
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:37.519
purpose and inspirational speaker and author.
She helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among

514
00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:45.359
stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and
meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,

515
00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:51.119
and commitment within the workforce. To
learn more or to invite Elise to

516
00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:55.079
speak to your organization, please visit
her at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk

517
00:33:55.079 --> 00:34:07.359
about how to get your employees working
on purpose. This is Working on Purpose

518
00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:12.039
with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach
our program today or open a conversation with

519
00:34:12.119 --> 00:34:20.079
Alise, send an email to Alise
Alise at elisecortes dot com. Now back

520
00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:24.920
to working on Purpose. Thanksteresting with
with us, and welcome back to the

521
00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:28.239
program. One other bit of news
I want to share with you. On

522
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:30.800
last August of twenty one, I
was able to get out the anthology that

523
00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:34.599
I've been working on for the last
couple of years. It's called Passionately Striving.

524
00:34:34.599 --> 00:34:37.639
And why what I did was I
went out and scouted the globe to

525
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:40.360
find twenty five women from all over
the place to share the really intimate story

526
00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:44.679
of how they've discovered their purpose are
now serving from it, and that the

527
00:34:44.679 --> 00:34:46.679
book is categorized by their path to
purpose. So the idea is is that

528
00:34:46.719 --> 00:34:51.280
through telling our stories, you get
access to more of your purpose or help

529
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:53.480
you check it out as well.
You're just joining us today. My guest

530
00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:58.239
is Kelly McDonald. She's a professor, professional speaker, and expert on diversity

531
00:34:58.239 --> 00:35:00.159
in business. She's the author of
It's Time to Talk about Race at Work.

532
00:35:00.199 --> 00:35:05.079
I'm your host, Lice Cortes.
So one of the things I really

533
00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:07.800
appreciate about your book is it's just
it has such an accessibility to it,

534
00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:13.400
Kelly, and it's conversational and it's
inviting. So you toward the end of

535
00:35:13.400 --> 00:35:15.960
the book you start talking about how
to open a conversation about these really really

536
00:35:16.440 --> 00:35:21.719
uncomfortable matters for people. And so
I'll read this first and then I want

537
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:23.239
you if you want to speak more
to it. But you know, just

538
00:35:23.320 --> 00:35:27.960
as a way to be able to
open a conversation, you offer a sample

539
00:35:28.039 --> 00:35:31.079
conversation which might go something like this. It's at our best interest to make

540
00:35:31.079 --> 00:35:36.880
sure that everyone in this department or
team or company has equal opportunity to learn,

541
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:40.079
grow and advance professionally. We need
to have regular, ongoing conversations about

542
00:35:40.119 --> 00:35:44.840
race and inequity at work so that
we can address the things we do that

543
00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:50.599
aren't working and come up with new
solutions. That's inviting. Yeah, you

544
00:35:50.719 --> 00:35:53.679
can't demonize the people that you work
with. You can't demonize the reader.

545
00:35:53.760 --> 00:35:58.199
You can't demonize the people who are
actually like listening right now and watching and

546
00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:01.440
trying to do better and be better. It's a it's an uncomfortable conversation and

547
00:36:01.480 --> 00:36:06.519
a lot of people and I understand
why feel that, you know, in

548
00:36:06.559 --> 00:36:07.920
this day and age, like they're
like, you know, I'm so afraid

549
00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:10.320
of saying the wrong thing or doing
the wrong thing that I'm just going to

550
00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:14.639
say nothing, you know, And
that's good for business at least. I

551
00:36:14.719 --> 00:36:16.360
think we have to be able to
talk about, you know, all the

552
00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:21.000
things that affect business. And you
would talk about marketing, you would talk

553
00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:22.880
about technology, you would talk about
you know, employees, you would talk

554
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:28.159
about everything. You would talk about
sales. We have to talk about diversifying

555
00:36:28.159 --> 00:36:30.039
our teams. And then what's that
like for the employees. They don't have

556
00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:35.679
a roadmap on how to do this. And that's what I'm trying to provide

557
00:36:35.800 --> 00:36:38.199
is like, these are the reasons
why those things don't work, and here's

558
00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:42.480
other ways that do work. You
can't give people that don't without giving them

559
00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:47.280
a dumm. I liking what you're
doing, Kelly to you know, before

560
00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:52.039
we didn't really learn how to how
to manage conflict at home or in school.

561
00:36:52.519 --> 00:36:54.960
So I know for years I've worked
with crucial conversations. Since people learn

562
00:36:55.000 --> 00:37:00.920
how to manage conflict productively, you're
now helping us manage comes around race productively,

563
00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:05.840
and I think that's extremely useful.
Thanks. So you're welcome, and

564
00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:08.599
I like your starting methodology. You've
got an acronym here that I think is

565
00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:13.360
really useful and accessible. So let's
talk about that next. Okay, I'm

566
00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:15.079
going to buzz through this really quick
because starting, if I'm not mistaken,

567
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:21.559
has eight letters, and so each
one of them Kelly, but it has

568
00:37:21.639 --> 00:37:23.280
to start with sincerity. I mean, you know, at the beginning of

569
00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:27.159
this conversational lease, I said something
like, if you're the guy who's going,

570
00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:29.920
well, I guess we're doing diversity
here at the office, and my

571
00:37:30.039 --> 00:37:34.320
bonus depends on it. That's not
a sincere effort. That's not anybody who's

572
00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:37.639
ever going to sincerely get behind it. So I really applaud your viewers and

573
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:42.480
your listeners here today because they're tuning
in to hear us talk about this and

574
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:44.920
That tells me that they want to
do better and be better, and I

575
00:37:44.920 --> 00:37:49.360
think most of us do. So
it starts with that sincere effort and sincerity

576
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:51.559
doesn't mean you're going to do it
right. It doesn't mean they're going to

577
00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:52.800
do it perfectly. It just means
that, by gosh, I'm going to

578
00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:57.039
try. Okay, I'm going to
try. So that's the US. The

579
00:37:57.119 --> 00:38:00.199
T stands for transparency, and I
think that especially leaders have the opportunity to

580
00:38:00.199 --> 00:38:05.039
say, Look, I've never done
this before, I've never talked about race

581
00:38:05.079 --> 00:38:07.599
at work. I think I'm going
to be a little clunky. I hope

582
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:10.000
you're going to bear with me,
because we need to talk about this and

583
00:38:10.039 --> 00:38:15.039
that is transparent. And people trust
transparency because when you say that simply and

584
00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:19.199
that clearly, there's nothing to hide
behind. Nobody's going to leave a meeting

585
00:38:19.239 --> 00:38:22.159
like that going I wonder what he
or she was trying to say. I

586
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:23.920
wonder what they were trying to know, what did they mean? So that

587
00:38:23.960 --> 00:38:28.079
transparency has to be there as well
as what the purpose is. Right,

588
00:38:28.159 --> 00:38:30.320
Like, we're not very diverse.
We need to work on changing that.

589
00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:37.360
And that's why we're having this meeting
or this conversation the A stands for acknowledgment.

590
00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:38.920
And again, I think this is
where a lot of white people would

591
00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:44.400
rather just sweep, you know,
all the uncomfortableness under the rug and go

592
00:38:44.639 --> 00:38:47.000
let's go from here. But I
think what we have to acknowledge is things

593
00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:52.079
haven't always been fair, things haven't
always been you know, equal. Quick

594
00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:58.679
story a friend of mine there's a
very good high school in his city,

595
00:38:58.760 --> 00:39:01.280
a very good high school, extremely
esteemed, and he said, every time

596
00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:06.480
we get an employee, an applicant
for an employee who comes from that high

597
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:09.079
school, we immediately say that's our
guy. And that may not be the

598
00:39:09.079 --> 00:39:13.280
most qualified person. Maybe the most
qualified person didn't go to that high school.

599
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:15.159
They went to a different high school
in a different neighborhood, and they're

600
00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:20.719
actually way more qualified. So how
do we actually level that playing field?

601
00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:22.920
You know? And so that's what
we're talking about here, and that acknowledgment

602
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:25.119
of like, we can do better, and what does that look like?

603
00:39:25.440 --> 00:39:31.119
Then? The cars Respect and respect
is having the guts and being able to

604
00:39:31.239 --> 00:39:37.000
listen to people's experiences, respect them, not downplay them, not dismiss them,

605
00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:43.079
not refute them, and just truly
respectfully say will you help us?

606
00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:45.440
Do better. This is going to
take all of us. It's not somebody

607
00:39:45.480 --> 00:39:50.079
else's job, it's our job.
So that's the R. The other T

608
00:39:50.559 --> 00:39:58.199
is tools. We can't just go, let's be better at diversity. Wow,

609
00:39:58.360 --> 00:40:00.880
I mean how like so literally this
this is a tool. That's why

610
00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:02.559
I wrote the book, is like, people don't know how and they're terrified

611
00:40:02.599 --> 00:40:06.760
of saying the wrong thing. So
we can't just say that we're going to

612
00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:07.880
be more diverse here, and by
gosh, you're part of the solution.

613
00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:12.519
You've got to actually tell people like, so, here's what that looks like,

614
00:40:12.559 --> 00:40:15.400
and here's what we're going to start. And these are the conversations we're

615
00:40:15.400 --> 00:40:17.280
going to continue to have and we're
going to work through issues. We're going

616
00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:22.079
to solve problems. We're going to
talk. So that is the tools.

617
00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:25.440
And then the eye is investment.
And investment can be time, it can

618
00:40:25.480 --> 00:40:30.360
be money. But this is where
a lot of businesses that I've heard about

619
00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:31.880
the kind of go, you know, diversity is just too expense and I

620
00:40:31.920 --> 00:40:35.639
can't, like, I just can't
allocate the headspace to it or anything.

621
00:40:35.639 --> 00:40:37.719
And I'm thinking, would you really
do that with any other part of your

622
00:40:37.719 --> 00:40:42.360
business? You have to invest in
technology. You had to invest in software,

623
00:40:42.440 --> 00:40:44.960
you had to invest in marketing materials, you had to invest in a

624
00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:49.079
salesforce. I mean, we invest
in business. This is good for business,

625
00:40:49.159 --> 00:40:52.280
it's been proven, invest in it. And then the end is nurturing.

626
00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:57.079
And I think it's really important.
And I really spelled this out in

627
00:40:57.079 --> 00:41:00.199
the book because I said a lot
of people think the word nurture is very

628
00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:02.280
guy like, oh my gosh,
I've got to coddle these people, you

629
00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:06.559
know, like I've got to like
And it doesn't mean that. It means

630
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:10.079
setting people up for success. And
one quick example, a friend of mine

631
00:41:10.119 --> 00:41:15.000
is a black professor at the University
of Utah, and she was telling me

632
00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:17.920
that earlier in her career, her
boss, who's white, called her into

633
00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:21.960
her office one day and said,
so and so is going to be retiring

634
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:25.840
in six months. Do you want
her job? And my friend said yes,

635
00:41:27.320 --> 00:41:30.440
And she said, Okay, we've
got six months to get you ready.

636
00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:32.000
You're going to need to sit on
some committees. You're going to need

637
00:41:32.039 --> 00:41:35.840
to meet some people, you're going
to need to understand how this works.

638
00:41:36.079 --> 00:41:37.280
I'm going to help you. I'm
going to get you on those committees.

639
00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:39.440
But you're the one who's going to
do the work on that community and put

640
00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:44.239
in the hours, you know.
And this, to me, that's nurturing

641
00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:47.440
is she gave her an opportunity and
set her up to succeed so that by

642
00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:52.000
the time she was a legitimate candidate, she was ready. She was modified,

643
00:41:52.119 --> 00:41:55.679
you know. So that's what nurturing
to me is is seeing those opportunities

644
00:41:55.719 --> 00:42:00.159
and saying, how can I actually
help lift up somebody and make sure sure

645
00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:01.400
that they're set up to succeed.
I'm not going to do the work for

646
00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:05.840
you, but I'm going to give
you every opportunity to succeed, and I'm

647
00:42:05.880 --> 00:42:08.000
going to open some doors. And
then the last thing g is goals.

648
00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:12.239
You know. It's like anything else. If I want to lose fifteen pounds,

649
00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:15.880
like okay, that's a that's a
goal that I put in a stake

650
00:42:15.920 --> 00:42:17.559
in the ground, like I'm going
to know how I'm progressing on that.

651
00:42:17.639 --> 00:42:21.199
You know, did I am I
down ten or twelve? I got three

652
00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:25.400
to go? So like anything else, I love Levi Straussen Company because chip

653
00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:30.079
Berg, the CEO, wrote an
open letter to the world and said,

654
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:32.800
here are that I'm making this up. Here are the nineteen or twenty things

655
00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:37.920
that we're going to do next year, and they were specific, and he

656
00:42:37.079 --> 00:42:40.480
was like, we're going to you
know, hire, We're going to make

657
00:42:40.519 --> 00:42:45.519
sure that forty percent of our pipeline
candidates are diverse, because you can only

658
00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:51.079
get diverse people to work for your
company if they're in the pipeline, you

659
00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:53.119
know, like but putting numbers to
it so that they could look back and

660
00:42:53.119 --> 00:42:57.159
go, did we do that?
Did we meet that goal? Okay?

661
00:42:57.159 --> 00:42:59.440
What do we have to refine so
that we can meet it next year?

662
00:42:59.480 --> 00:43:01.880
Okay? What are the tweaks?
So people have to know what they're working

663
00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:06.000
toward, and then they have to
be able to celebrate those successes along the

664
00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:08.480
way, because if you've set those
goals, people are going to meet them

665
00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:14.119
and they were part of the success. Oh that's just all just gorgeous,

666
00:43:14.199 --> 00:43:15.480
Kelly. I love all that,
and you do beautiful job of sharing that

667
00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:19.760
in the book too, by the
way. Okay, so we're getting close

668
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:21.800
to the end here. So what
I want to do next is now,

669
00:43:22.039 --> 00:43:27.440
if you are listening or watching and
you are a white male, I'm going

670
00:43:27.480 --> 00:43:30.039
to I'm going to give you a
special invitation. Yep. Okay. So

671
00:43:30.079 --> 00:43:32.480
one of the things that Kelly says
in her book. She says, if

672
00:43:32.480 --> 00:43:36.920
you're a white male in a leadership
role, you can create change more than

673
00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:40.440
anyone and more than you realize.
She tell us why, Kelly, the

674
00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:45.719
reason is and this is again me
going there and just being blunt. Else

675
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:50.519
what one are perceived as neutral.
So one of the things I hear often

676
00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:53.000
is as a white person talking about
diversity and people are like, wow,

677
00:43:53.199 --> 00:43:59.039
but you're white. You know,
It's it's an opportunity not to be missed.

678
00:43:59.079 --> 00:44:02.760
Because if a brown or gay,
or Muslim or any other diverse group

679
00:44:02.840 --> 00:44:07.039
or whatever starts to talk about diversity
at work, what happens often, not

680
00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:12.320
always, but often is people say
or think, well, of course she's

681
00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:15.239
going to say that she's a black
woman, or of course they're going to

682
00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:17.800
say that that's a Hispanic person.
Of course they look at it that way.

683
00:44:19.480 --> 00:44:22.360
So and even as a white woman, as a woman, I get

684
00:44:22.400 --> 00:44:27.000
dismissed in the same way. I
mean, so when we're talking about this,

685
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:30.079
if you're a white man and you
want to make the needle move in

686
00:44:30.119 --> 00:44:36.119
your company on diversity, equity,
inclusion, you are perceived as neutral.

687
00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:39.079
So if you say this is important, we're going to work on this.

688
00:44:39.320 --> 00:44:44.079
People go, oh, he doesn't
seem to have an agenda. He doesn't

689
00:44:44.119 --> 00:44:46.119
seem to have a flag that he's
carrying. You know, like what,

690
00:44:46.679 --> 00:44:51.960
it's not dismissed. It's absolutely a
gift. I don't want to say that

691
00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:54.039
it's a gift to be a white
male, but that neutrality is the gift.

692
00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:59.880
Use it. It's used for good. You have no idea how powerful

693
00:44:59.920 --> 00:45:02.480
you you are. And there's an
opportunity there that I think a lot of

694
00:45:02.599 --> 00:45:06.440
especially white men, feel like,
Wow, I guess there's so much focus

695
00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:08.599
on diversity. I don't really have
a place here. Oh yes you do.

696
00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:13.719
You can lead us there, and
you can take a team there in

697
00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:17.559
a way that is more powerful than
you realize, because you will not be

698
00:45:17.679 --> 00:45:22.360
dismissed if you are behind this.
It gets real serious in a good way.

699
00:45:23.079 --> 00:45:25.960
I totally get that. This is
so beautiful. All right. So

700
00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:30.039
we're coming very close to the end
of the hour, and there's one more

701
00:45:30.039 --> 00:45:30.840
thing. So I guess what I
need to do at this point is,

702
00:45:30.880 --> 00:45:34.239
since we're coming to a close,
is let me let you close as you

703
00:45:34.360 --> 00:45:36.800
like. The show is listening to
white people all over the world who are

704
00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:38.360
interested in creating a workplace where people
actually want to come to work and do

705
00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:42.480
their best. We create intiracial leaders
that lead them to their greatness, and

706
00:45:42.559 --> 00:45:44.679
we do business at betters in the
world. What would you like to leave

707
00:45:44.719 --> 00:45:51.000
them with? What I want to
leave you with is actually two quotes,

708
00:45:51.039 --> 00:45:54.559
if I may. One is from
a guy named Kwame Christian and he wrote,

709
00:45:55.280 --> 00:45:59.639
the most the best things in life
are on the other side of a

710
00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:04.760
difficul conversation. And I completely agree
with that, and you can apply that

711
00:46:04.760 --> 00:46:07.360
to any other thing in your life, your relationship with your spouse. I

712
00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:10.440
mean, anytime you have a difficult
conversation, you come out feeling better afterwards

713
00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:15.000
because you actually talked about it.
The other one I want to leave your

714
00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:17.760
viewers and listeners with is one from
Maya Angelou that I can almost not get

715
00:46:17.800 --> 00:46:23.039
through this without getting emotional. But
she said, do the best you can

716
00:46:23.199 --> 00:46:27.719
until you know better, and then
when you know better, do better.

717
00:46:28.119 --> 00:46:30.320
And that's all we're trying to do. Is I think all of us are

718
00:46:30.360 --> 00:46:34.440
just trying to know better and do
better and be better. And it starts

719
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:37.320
with us. This is not somebody
else's problem. This is all of our

720
00:46:37.360 --> 00:46:43.280
problem. Okay, Kelly so now
we're both crying. That's great a lot,

721
00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:45.400
a great way to finish the show. But Kelly, what that speaks

722
00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:49.400
to is your passion for this.
This, this is for you. This

723
00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:53.239
is your real core work. Well, this is not just speak in the

724
00:46:53.280 --> 00:46:57.599
world. This is your more work. No, this is my purpose.

725
00:46:57.639 --> 00:47:00.199
And that's why I'm very honored to
be a guest on your show of working

726
00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:02.800
on Purpose because it's my I started
off doing it because it was so cool

727
00:47:02.840 --> 00:47:06.840
from business to see the business opportunity, and I ended up realizing that this

728
00:47:06.920 --> 00:47:10.000
is my calling and how beautiful that
is. See the difference that we get

729
00:47:10.039 --> 00:47:14.880
to make in the world when we
work from purpose. Let's invite anybody listening

730
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:17.280
to the show, please find your
purpose, serve from It's amazing. Kelly.

731
00:47:17.360 --> 00:47:20.599
I am thrilled to know you,
to have you in my life,

732
00:47:20.639 --> 00:47:23.519
to have cross paths with you.
One word of warning, I've been known

733
00:47:23.559 --> 00:47:25.760
to show up on the doorsteps of
people have had in my show, So

734
00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:30.360
just so you know, okay,
make sure I'm boom. Yeah. So,

735
00:47:30.760 --> 00:47:35.320
so just delighted to have read your
book cover to cover. Let it

736
00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:38.199
let its contents and fuse into me
and share them now with listeners and viewers,

737
00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:42.039
and I hope we get some really
good, interesting engagement about this conversation.

738
00:47:42.119 --> 00:47:45.000
So thank you for sing on the
show. Yes, thank you audience,

739
00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:46.840
absolutely, listeners, viewer. If
you want to learn more about Tellen

740
00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:51.159
McDonald, her work or her books, start by visiting her website. It's

741
00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:54.079
McDonald marketing dot com. Let me
spell that for you, so it's mc

742
00:47:54.480 --> 00:48:00.360
d O n A l D marketing
dot com. Last week, miss the

743
00:48:00.400 --> 00:48:02.320
live show, you you can always
catch a re recorded podcast. We are

744
00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:07.239
on the air with Fixed how to
Perfect the Fine Art of Problem Solving.

745
00:48:07.280 --> 00:48:12.719
It was a delightful conversation about how
she teaches people from all industries to become

746
00:48:12.760 --> 00:48:16.360
better communicators and problem solvers by learning
to observe and describe art. It was

747
00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:21.400
fascinating. It's a perfect and delicious
collision. If you will. Next week,

748
00:48:21.400 --> 00:48:23.440
we'll be on the air with Joe
Camarado. He's the CEO and founder

749
00:48:23.480 --> 00:48:29.280
of National Business Capital, and we'll
be talking about a more democratized environment appearing

750
00:48:29.320 --> 00:48:32.440
in workplaces around the country and how
leaders can take the reins on purposeful work

751
00:48:32.599 --> 00:48:36.320
and employee wellness. See you there. Remember that work is at least air

752
00:48:36.320 --> 00:48:40.440
of our life, So let's work
on Purpose. We hope you've enjoyed this

753
00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:45.800
week's program. Be sure to tune
in to Working on Purpose, featuring your

754
00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:50.719
host, doctor Elise Cortes, each
week on the Voice America Empowerment Channel.

755
00:48:51.079 --> 00:48:58.239
Together, we'll create a world where
business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires impassion performance,

756
00:48:58.639 --> 00:49:01.599
and employees are full field in work
that provides the meaning and purpose they

757
00:49:01.719 --> 00:49:06.360
crave. See you there, Let's
work on Purpose.