Getting Real on Race at Work Like Your Business Depends on It

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What's working on purpose anyway? Each
week we ponder the answer to this question.

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People ache for meaning and purpose at
work, to contribute their talents passionately

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and know their lives really matter.
They crave being part of an organization that

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inspires them and helps them grow into
realizing their highest potential. Business can be

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such a force for good in the
world, elevating humanity. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration to help
usher in this world we all want

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Working on purpose. Now. Here
is your host, doctor Elise Cortez.

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Welcome back to the Working on Purpose
Program. Thanks for tuning again this week.

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I'm your host, doctor Elis Cortes, to a new lie from Dallas,

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which is home based for me.
If you don't know me yet,

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I'm a management consultant specializing in meaning
and purpose, organizational local therapist, inspirational

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speaker, social scientist, and author. My team and I help companies discover

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and articulate their purpose and through their
cultures. We work with forward thinking or

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forward reaching organizations to develop inspirational leaders
who create cultures where people actually want to

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come to work and do their best. And we provide programs like the Grab

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Your Guster that enable individual team members
to discover and unlease their passion and purpose

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at work to catalyze fulfilment, engagement, and productivity. You learn more about

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us now we can work together at
Atlis Cortez dot com. With us today

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is Kelly McDonald, a professional speaker
an expert on diversity in business. She's

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authored four best selling books on marketing, the customer experience, and leadership,

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all from the standpoint of working with
people not like you. We'll be talking

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about her newest book, It's Time
to Talk about Race at Work. Every

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Leader's Guide in making Progress on diversity, equity, and inclusion. She joined

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today from Denver, Colorado. Kelly, Welcome to Working on Purpose. Thank

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you, hi Lease, Thanks for
having me. Hi Absolutely, I'm thrilled

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to have you, and thank you
Joanne for bringing us together. Magnificent human

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being that she is. So I
really appreciate the conversation we're going to have

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today, Kelly, because, as
I said where we got on air together,

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you really do address diversity and race
from a really fresh, vanished point,

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not from thou should should or should
anything like that, or active activist

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or HR speak. It's real and
it's just it's frontline stuff, and so

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I really appreciate the work that you're
doing, and especially as a white person

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doing this work, right, thank
you? Yes, yeah, yeah.

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So let's start off first by distinguished
a couple really important terms. You talk

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about bias and prejudice. So if
you would distinguish those terms for us.

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Sure, a lot of people conflate
the two words and they think they're synonymous

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and they're actually completely different. Bias
means preference for Okay, so if like,

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for example, a lot of my
friends have kids, and they'll say

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something like, you know, all
the kids on my soccer team, you

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know, my kids soccer team are
just terrific, but forgive me, I'm

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biased toward my own child, right, So that's a perfect example of using

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by us in the correct way.
It means preference for So obviously that parent

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has a preference for their kid.
They can't be completely, you know,

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unbiased about their child. But it
doesn't mean that they hate the other kids.

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They're just simply saying, I just
like my kid, and a bias

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prejudice is an action. So bias
is in all of us. We actually

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have all of us, every single
one of us have biased. It's not

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a it's not prejudice. Prejudice is
in action, and prejudice is learned.

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Bias is innate in all of us. If you think about it from an

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anthropological standpoint, bias is probably what
kept us safe as primitive people's We lived

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in tribes and communities with people who
are probably a lot like us, because

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it kept us safe and it was
relevant for human survival. So we all

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do have biases, and in business, what is important is to understand that

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we all have those and to work
around those. Now, prejudice, I

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think has no place anywhere. But
what I think a lot of people conflate

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those two things and they say,
oh my gosh, if you tell me

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I'm biased, I'm gonna get my
gloves up and I'm going to get defensive

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because I'm not biased. And what
they really are saying is I'm not prejudiced.

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So we just need to make that
distinction. Beautiful, great way to

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start, Kelly. Okay, So
now speaking of you know, putting the

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gloves up, we got to talk
about your opening chapter, which is just

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brilliant. It's just right out of
the gate. It's called this chapter one.

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This book is, and it's called
this book is for everyone, but

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especially white readers. And it's so
important you know, and listens, viewers

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and listeners as you go into this
conversation with us, be with us,

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right, So we want to presence
this material in a really different fresh way

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for you. So one of the
things that I really want to share and

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echo with you, Kelly, is
that what you really are saying in that

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chapter is that you know, even
as much as white people really want to

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be inclusive and understanding and appreciative,
they just really can't understand what it is

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to be a non white person is
today's world. And so you say things

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like, you know, you know
all this look about articles, books and

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training on D D E and I
are great. But if you're white and

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you listen to someone of another race
or background describe their first hand, personal

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day to day experiences, it's eye
opening. And you go on to say,

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because the terrible things that happen to
black, Brown Asian lgbtt Q plus

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Jewish Asian and Muslim or any minority
for that matter, just typically don't happen

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to whites, and we can't imagine
how bad it is or how often it

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happens, and we can't comprehend the
chronic tool that it takes on a person.

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So I wanted to get all that
out because you just can't understand it

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if you haven't been in those shoes, right, And that's where I think

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from a business standpoint, especially white
people at work and white executives, they

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struggle with a little bit because they're
kind of like, is this really that

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big of a deal, because it
doesn't happen to us, So it doesn't

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seem like that big, right,
And I can tell you that, you

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know, maybe I've been discriminated against
in my life a lease as a woman,

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but I'm not even sure I have, you know, And so it

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doesn't happen to us. And when
you do hear those stories from friends and

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colleagues, and you realize, holy
smokes, this is happening everywhere. I

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have a friend of mine who's Taiwanese
and she was telling me that, and

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she lives in Cincinnati, and she
was telling me that she went out for

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a run one day and someone threw
food at her. Now, no one

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has ever thrown food at me from
a crme, right, it just doesn't

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happen. It just doesn't happen.
And my boxing coach is black, and

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he was telling me the boxing gym
where I work out is in a strip

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shopping center that has like a Joeanne
fabrics and Ace hardware and stuff. And

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he was telling me that when he
parks his car and gets out, or

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when he's coming out of the gym
and walking to his car, he can

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hear all the door locks in the
parking lock clicking. These old ladies who

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are guests are afraid he's going to
carjack them, and you know, and

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I pushed back on and I'm like, really, you're a forty eight year

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old man dressed in jim clothes carrying
a Duffel bag walking out of a gym

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and he's, you know, he's
pretty ripped, you know, so it's

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like pretty obvious he's been working out. And he goes, I guess they

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think I'm a criminal, you know, And I'm like, oh my gosh,

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that doesn't happen to me, and
it doesn't happen to other guy friends

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of mine who are white. Yeah. The story I want to share this

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is this is recent, like within
the last I don't know, let's call

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it six months. A black friend
of mine, professional man, he was

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out working in at one of the
southern states of the United States out in

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more of a rural area at seven
o'clock in the morning on a weekday,

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and somebody yelled the in word of
him and fired a shot in his direction.

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Fired a shot, because the story
gets a fire a gun shot with

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a with a gun. So he
was able to kill him. Yeah,

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they were going to kill him.
He could have lost his life that day.

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No, there's wait, it gets
there's more. And so literally he

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goes through that whole process of,
you know, filing to complaint with the

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police and all the whole thing.
The guy actually did go to jail.

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Where it's pertinent to this conversation.
Your reaction is very, very distinctly different

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than my friend. I was then
running with a dear friend of mine,

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a white man who I've known for
years of tremendous respect for. I told

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him the story and his response was, that's unfortunate. Unfortunate, unfortunate when

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your flight is delayed, right,
you know. I was like, so

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that's what we mean by you just
don't get it. If you're white,

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you just don't get this. Now
and here, this same friend of mine

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tells me, this guy's a big
guy. He tells me he cries when

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he gets pulled over by faith.
He cries, I have a friend who's

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also black, and he's like,
you know, he's always saying, you

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know, like you know, black
wall driving and he's like, if you

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get pulled over by the police and
you're a black, especially a black man,

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he said, it's you know,
hands on the wheel, and he

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said, it's life or it's potentially
life or death, right or at least

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to beating. And he goes,
you're gonna go face down on that ground

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like you wouldn't believe. Yeah,
And he has actually yeah, he also

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has also has been hit in the
back of the head and had to have

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you know, stitches to clean it
up. I mean, so this is

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real, ladies and gentlemen, this
is real. Is his the world and

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one or a real quick example a
friend of mine is Muslim and she wears

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a he jab and she said,
you know, why do people think it's

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okay to just try to grab my
hee jab off of me and yank it

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off of me. She goes,
when you're wearing a Christian cross on your

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neck, I don't yank it off
of you. And I thought, wow,

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we display you know, we I'm
not Christian or anything. Really but

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I mean, like Christians display their
faith all the time. We are very

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used to that in this country.
So why when someone else displays their faith,

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does that make us feel like we
can assault them? I mean it's

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like, yeah, it's such an
This is so so important the work that

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you're doing, Kelly. It's just
I just so so want to invite more

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people on the Fall, which is
why I totally wanted to have you on

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the on the show. And this
shows listened to by people across the world,

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so so so so so important.
So now let's take it and let's

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take it on a more granular level
here, Kelly. One of the things

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that we do from the story.
But I know I saw the viscual response

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I did. I was incredible.
Yeah, it makes my blood pressure go

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up. So but you do a
beautiful job in your book of really bringing

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this to home for us by helping
people understand just what it feels like to

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be discriminated against like this. And
so I don't know if you want to

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share the story or if you want
me to share it to read it,

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read it, but talk about that. If you would, you can say,

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make say it and I'll film more
in you know what It feels like

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when you're a kid and you're on
the playground and you don't you don't get

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picked, right. You know,
I hope that many of your listeners and

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viewers are have not experienced this.
But you know, when I was a

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kid, there were teams at recess
and people would pick the teams. And

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you know, if you were that
kid who was last picked, picked last,

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or not picked at all, you
know, imagine what that feels like

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to go through that every day because
you understand that nobody wants you as a

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kid, nobody wants you on the
team. They picked you last, and

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even if they picked you last,
in many cases, they picked you because

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they had to, right, And
that's not acceptance, that's compliance, right.

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So when I think about those organizations
where they're going diversity, the equity,

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inclusion, and some manager in there
going is in there going okay,

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I guess this is what we're doing
now, you know, again, that's

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not acceptance, that's compliance, right. You know, if you can remember

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back to being a kid, and
maybe being that kid, I know I

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was a couple of times where no
one wanted me, and that feeling of

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isolation and that feeling of like why
don't they want me? I'm the same

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age, We're in the same classroom. Why don't they want me? And

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how isolating that is and how cool
it is and the scars and the marks

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that they can leave on you.
And then I grew out of that,

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at least because I was a kid. I grew out of that. So

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imagine never growing out of that.
Imagine walking in with that every day of

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your life for the rest of your
life, even as a grown up.

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M that really brings at home,
Kelly, you know that, really and

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the way you distinguish, you know, the thing about compliance, et cetera.

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It's just so so important and checking
the box. You know, we're

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doing this kind of thing, you
know, so when you talk about this

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is what we're really getting to here
and this you do this beautifully here.

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So when you can stand there and
listen to this, now, imagine you're

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talking to somebody, You're somebody sharing
this with you, listens for you,

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listeners and viewers. So imagine this. So you're and if you're really committed

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to a team that's diverse and creating
that space for you, and if you're

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white, it starts with flexing your
own empathy muscle as you say in the

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book, and thinking about what work
must feel like for these people. So

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I think that that ability to be
able to reach across and into someone to

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understand their space, it's I don't
know how how often it happens, but

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I got to believe that when it
does happen, it's pretty amazing. It

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is. And I think one of
the things that is white people. And

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I'm just gonna go here at least. Okay, okay, let's do it,

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bring it all right, I'm just
gonna go here because that's how I

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am. I think that one of
the things that is really hard for white

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people, and I'm included in that, and I've worked very hard to learn

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skills in this area is to not
interrupt, downplay, or refute someone else's

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experiences that are real that happened,
or are happening or continue to happen.

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And what I think what happens is
we're horrified by the experiences that some people

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tell us, you know, like
when my friend Irene said someone threw food

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at me when I was out for
a run, Like, I'm just I

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have no words for that. I
don't know, you know, what to

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say or anything like that. And
I think sometimes that what we what were

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our instinct is to not squirm like
it's making a squirm so much, it's

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so uncomfortable that we tend to try
to either downplay or refute it and say

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things like, well, you know
that was a long time ago. At

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least that kind of thing wouldn't happen
anymore, you know, in today's world,

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Or well that was a really bad
group of people, you know.

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Not everyone's like that, And I
I think it's a huge mistake to take

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anyone's experience and refute it or down
to play it. I think what we

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have to do is live with the
scorm. I think actually, when we're

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scorming, we're getting somewhere, and
what our job is to do is listen

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and maybe even extract more and say
do you want to tell me more about

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that? You know, and really
listen, And that's the empathy and muscle

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is like, I'm so sorry that
that happened to you. Do you do

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you want to tell me more about
that? How did that feel? What

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did you do? And not shove
it aside, try to put it on

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the table with them and say,
let's talk about this if you want to.

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That's horrible you know, I can't
even imagine, and it's it's about

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acknowledging it. And I think,
you know, many of my diverse friends

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have said white people are so uncomfortable
with this. They just don't even want

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to acknowledge it. They just want
to change the subject. You know.

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It's like, and I get it. It is scormy because that doesn't happen

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to us, right, and so
it makes us swarm. But I've really

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come to believe that when we're sworming, we're getting somewhere. I under's value

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in the squirm. Completely agree.
So with that, let's let's grab our

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first break. So ladies and gentlemen
across the world squirm while we're on break.

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Please, I'm your host, Doctor
Lease Cortez. We're on there with

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Kelly McDonald. She's the author of
It's Time to Talk about Race at Work.

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We've been talking a bit about the
issue, what's going on with race?

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What does it feel like to be
someone else, someone different to work

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with? After the rigorms start talking
about why all white are mostly white businesses

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make less money? Staying with us, We'll be right back. Doctor Release

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Cortez is a management consultant specializing in
meaning and purpose and inspirational speaker and author.

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She helps companies visioneer for greater purpose
among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership

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and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce.

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To learn more or to invite a
Lease to speak to your organization and

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00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:03.399
please visit her at Elise Cortez dot
com. Let's talk about how to get

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00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:15.399
your employees working on purpose. This
is working on Purpose with doctor Release Cortez.

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To reach our program today or open
a conversation with Elise, send an

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00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:27.320
email to Elise ali Se at Elise
Cortez dot com. Now back to working

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on Purpose. Thank foresting with us. Welcome back to the program. Before

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we get back into the content,
I want to invite you to check out

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my book Purpose Ignited. I wrote
it in November of twenty twenty ye that's

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what it came out, I should
say. And I really wrote it to

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awakened readers to their passion and their
purpose and turn them into inspirational leaders that

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can actually elevate the experience of the
work of their people and really do business

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that betters the world. It's on
Amazon. You can find it there.

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I also use that content for my
vitally Inspired programs and the Gust to Grab

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00:16:56.360 --> 00:16:59.799
Your Guster programs as well if you're
just joining the program now. My guest

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is Kelly McDonald. She's a professional
speaker and expert on diversity in business.

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She's the author of It's Time to
Talk About Race. I'm your host,

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doctor Elie's Cortesse. So this has
already been a vibrant, energetic exchange.

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Now let's talk about money, shall
we. Let's talk about money. Let's

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talk about business. It's really quite
interesting and I find this really really fascinating

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here and this is where we started
getting into the science of this whole thing

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too. Just beyond the art,
if you will, the cost of bias.

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You talk about and you say,
you talk about why all white or

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mostly white businesses make less money.
Can you say more about that? That's

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fascinating. I mean, it's it's
actually even more profound when a business is

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successful. So what happens is when
everybody is largely the same. So I'll

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just use whiteness like you said.
I mean, but it could be generational

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different you know, it could be
different generations or the same generation and stuff.

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When everybody kind of comes from the
same place, then they largely will

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tend to have the same views.
There isn't anybody there to offer up a

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different view there and anybody to say, well, you know, I don't

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think that we should do that because
this or this, or hey, what

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if we did this instead? There's
never that outside perspective and diversity, whether

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it's the color of your scam,
the shape of your eyes, you know,

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the gender that you are, or
the non binary or you know,

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how old you are, whatever it
is, that's the bedrock of innovation.

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So what happens is when you have
a group of people who are like they

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actually can be very successful, which
actually leads to why should we change anything.

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We're killing it over here, you
know. But long term, those

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companies make less money. And that's
been proven. And it's also been proven

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that diverse teams outperform non diverse teams
on every metric that business success is measured,

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customer service, customer loyalty, employee
engagement, employee absenteeism. Diverse teams

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actually have their people come to work
more often profits, say retention, you

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name it, every single metric that
you can go what would a successful business

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look like? Diverse teams I'll perform
them. So if you have an all

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white team, you know, I'm
not here to say shame on you,

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or it's just one of those things
going forward that you might want to think

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about. As you have natural attrition
or people retire or whatever is try bringing

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in some diverse talent, whether it's
women, whether it's younger people, whether

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it's people of color. It's really
important. It will actually make your business

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grow. It's been proven. Yeah, so what's interesting to me about that?

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And I wish I could summon the
exact example that I have, but

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I remember distinctly to this end,
there was an organization that was putting out

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some kind of a new product and
they had a largely white workforce and they

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somebody said something like, maybe we
should get some of the perspectives here.

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So I forget where they found these
different people, but they brought in different

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groups of minority and at one of
some of the some of the black people

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that they brought in said, oh, we would never buy through that channel.

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That's not how we would do it. That's not what's not how things

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are done for us. What's your
channel? And they told them, well,

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it's this, Oh we would have
never done that I was like a

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money order or something like that.
I can't remember what it was, but

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that is a perfect example of oh, well, we just that's not how

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we do it, that's not how
we're socialized to do it. I can

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give you another great example real quick, because I live in Denver, so

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the ski industry here is absolutely huge. It's your great story in the book,

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by the way, fantastic. So
up until the nineties, the ski

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industry, well late nineties, the
ski industry was mostly affluent boomers and white

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and what they found was that the
number of skiers every year was declining year

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over ye over year, fewer skiers. Okay, so that's fewer passes and

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you know all that. And what
they found was that the boomers were getting

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older and maybe if you've had a
knee replacement, it's not such a good

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idea to go skiing, or maybe
from pritis and stuff. So it was

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a natural outcome of an aging customer
group. Yet they had nobody else to

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replace that because young skiers, when
they talked to them and they did do

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research, which was awesome, they
found that, you know, they looked

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at skiing as like their parents' sport, Like why would I want to do

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that. What they wanted to do
was snowboard, but at the time,

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snowboarding was not allowed on the ski
slope, so if you wanted to snowboard,

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you actually had to trek into the
back country and ski. Furthermore,

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they found out that day passes were
very expensive for young people. The equipment

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itself was expensive, whether you buy
it or rent it. The whole thing

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was a barrier to young skiers,
you know, from the cost of it,

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to the fact that it was like
their ikey parents, you know,

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sport or whatever, so and to
the fact that you couldn't they weren't allowed

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to snowboard on the same hills.
And so what they did was change all

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of that. They worked with the
equipment manufacturers and the renters and all that

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kind of stuff to bring down the
cost. They came out with really exceptional

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value packages for skiing, and they
opened up the ski slopes to borders okay

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snowboarders. So the thing is that
perspective would never ever have come to them.

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They would never have known why they're
not getting new customers if they hadn't

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talked to them. They did focus
groups with young people and they were like,

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what's holding you back from skiing,
and they were like this, this,

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this, this, this, Well, all those things are fixable once

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you know about them, but you
can't fix what you can what you don't

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know. It's a gorgeous example of
telling you. Yeah, it's a gorgeous

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example. Perfect brings it right home. Okay, So now let's get into

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some of the reasons companies or leaders
give for a lack of diversity. This

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is just like blows me out of
the bottle of water, and we are

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all going to recognize these things.
One that you first say is there are

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no women or people of color in
this field, and they just don't They

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just don't come to this field.
Right, Well, they don't come to

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the field because they may not even
know the field exists. And you certainly

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have put the welcome at out.
So in marketing, and I have a

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marketing background, what we always say
is I can't choose crust toothpaste if crust

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is not on the shelf. Right, So if I go to sort my

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toothpaste and that's my toothpaste, then
there's nothing but Colgate. I can't buy

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crust if it's not there. So
the analogy here would be people are drawn

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to the things that interest them,
but they are that they are also exposed

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to. So I'm not going to
just wake up one day and go,

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you know what, I think,
I'm going to go work for this chemical

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engineering company, you know, unless
I know somebody who works there, or

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that's not even on my radar.
So companies end up staying not diverse because

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they end up hiring from the same
pools of people and doing the same way

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at the same job fairs or whatever
they're doing. And then that's why they

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go, well, we're trying to
get more diverse people, but at our

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00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:45.359
job fairs, we just don't get
any. And it's like, because you've

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been doing the job fair in the
same place, in the same way,

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you haven't actually done any outreach to
anyone. And it's not true that there

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are no women or people of color
that are not It's not true that they're

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not there. They're there. They
don't even know that you're there. So

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you've got to put a welcome mat
out and say, hey, we're not

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very diverse and we'd like to change
that, and we're looking for people to

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help us do that work, and
we would like to talk to you,

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but you have to go you have
to go get that. That's outreach.

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They're not going to just you know, pick you because they don't even know

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you exist, right, sure about
your dorm? Okay, then then this

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this next one that you talk about
a week and go on and on with

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these different different lists here, but
this one we really have to talk about.

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This is this is so so important. There's other excuse for this reason

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the companies might lack for diversity.
Well, they might see something like that

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guy is a bit racist, but
he brings in a lot of money for

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it from so we just ignore him. Yeah, that's that's a really ugly

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one because you know, I think
everybody probably knows somebody like that who is

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a high person, especially in sales
or productivity or something, and so they

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tolerate the inexcusable racist, sexist,
offensive comments that that person makes because gosh,

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they make money. But what you're
really doing is selling your soul.

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You know, if you do that
as a company, what you're saying is

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really profit and money comes before humanity
and doing the right thing and being the

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right people. And we're okay with
that. And I think in today's world,

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as business goes, society goes,
and it's up to us in business

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to not only be better and do
better. And almost every company I've ever

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00:25:29.480 --> 00:25:30.480
talked to says like, yeah,
we want to do better and be better.

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00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:38.680
Show us how. And by keeping
a racist, sexist, offensive person

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00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:42.759
without being checked, I mean,
you can talk to that person and say

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we have a zero tolerance policy here. Okay, so then they then it's

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00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:48.519
been addressed. But if you don't
and you're just kind of going, well,

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you know, I don't want to
rack the boat with that guy.

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00:25:51.079 --> 00:25:53.160
We wouldn't want him to leave because
he's such a he's such a money maker.

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00:25:55.000 --> 00:26:00.240
Your values are on display and not
in a good way. And I

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00:26:00.240 --> 00:26:03.960
think it's just I think personally it's
morally wrong. But I also think from

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00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:07.599
a purely business standpoint, if you
don't want to go there and you just

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00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:11.920
go business, that will not that
will not work long term because people do

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00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:15.599
want to see a business's soul and
they have a lot of means to do

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00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:18.079
so and in a lot of ways. And so when I say that as

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00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:22.240
business goes, society goes, well, think about like sustainability. You know,

398
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:26.000
ten years ago nobody was really talking
about sustainability. I just bought a

399
00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:29.000
pair of jeans the other day that
had a tag on them that said these

400
00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:32.680
genes have been made from recycled plastic
bottles, and I was like, huh.

401
00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:36.359
But it made me have a positive
imprint of that company because I was

402
00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:37.799
like, Wow, not only are
these cute genes, but like they're the

403
00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:44.079
good guys. So as as business
was the first to do that, So

404
00:26:44.119 --> 00:26:48.559
as business is putting sustainability in our
minds than we're putting sustainability in our minds

405
00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:51.839
and going oh okay, yeah sure. And it's the same thing with diversity,

406
00:26:51.880 --> 00:26:56.079
equity inclusion, as businesses put more
prioritize and more of a priority on

407
00:26:56.119 --> 00:26:59.279
this than people are going, well, yeah, that's the right thing to

408
00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:03.519
do. So I would say,
take a really hard look at your values

409
00:27:03.559 --> 00:27:07.319
and your mission statement and ask who
you are and then say, does this

410
00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:11.599
person reflect the values that this company
wants to be on display for us?

411
00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:15.000
That really where we want to plant
our flag. Yeah. And do we

412
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:18.079
want to go ahead and attract more
people like that to work with us?

413
00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:19.559
Yeah? And that's that's the other
part of it, is you're going to

414
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:22.759
attract to the people or you're going
to run people off that don't want to

415
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:25.799
be around that, or you're going
to attract more people that say, oh,

416
00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:27.960
this is how they behave. That's
me. I'll take that. And

417
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:32.079
another thing is if there are people
at that company who don't behave like that,

418
00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:36.279
the message that it sends to them
is Wow, somebody can be like

419
00:27:36.440 --> 00:27:41.119
that here and it's okay, yeah, that's who we are here. And

420
00:27:41.319 --> 00:27:44.960
you're going to lose the good people
who can't stand that and want nothing to

421
00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:47.599
do with that, and you're going
to be left with this group of pretty

422
00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:52.200
awful people, you know. And
you know, maybe if that doesn't bother

423
00:27:52.279 --> 00:27:56.559
you, hey have at it.
But I think most companies would be just

424
00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:02.759
appalled if if that's what the company
was viewed as, and we can do

425
00:28:02.839 --> 00:28:04.279
better than that, which is going
to be get us into the next piece

426
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:08.759
here. So here's where I really
want to help our listeners and our viewers.

427
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:14.000
You know, we all need to
All the time, we'll say unintentional,

428
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:17.200
offensive things, things I didn't understand
how it was coming across to the

429
00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:19.400
other person. And so I want
to talk about a couple of these that

430
00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:23.680
are pretty common here and about why
they they're problematic. So the first one

431
00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:27.640
you talk about when people say things
like, especially of a white person says

432
00:28:27.640 --> 00:28:32.720
this, I don't see color or
on the color client, Why is that

433
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:36.640
so problematic? Kelly? It's problematic
because our color is one of the most

434
00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:38.960
obvious things about us. Okay,
So to say I don't see color,

435
00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:44.160
first of all, it's just not
true. And secondly, what it really

436
00:28:44.279 --> 00:28:49.599
is doing is dismissing the other person's
personhood. Okay. So like if I'm

437
00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:52.480
talking to you, and let's say
you're black, and I said, well,

438
00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:53.799
you know, I don't see color, what I'm really trying to communicate

439
00:28:53.880 --> 00:28:56.240
is I'm not racist, but that's
not what I said. I said I

440
00:28:56.240 --> 00:29:00.839
don't see color. And so that
person of color is going to feel like,

441
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:04.279
well, you're not actually acknowledging all
that I am and all that I

442
00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:08.160
bring to the table and the experiences
that I've had in the perspective that I

443
00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:12.599
have because you've refused to see it, or how can you fix some of

444
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:17.480
the problems that we have internally here
at this company if you don't even acknowledge

445
00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:22.759
that I'm different from you right the
water in any way? And again I

446
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:27.039
think the intention is good, which
is someone is trying to say I don't

447
00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:30.240
see color, but I think what
we have to say is, you know,

448
00:29:30.680 --> 00:29:36.519
I see the differences, and like, I want your perspective and obvious

449
00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:40.200
things about us. There's nothing wrong
with acknowledging the fact that someone's brown and

450
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:42.519
I'm white, and you're gay,
and you're you know, older, and

451
00:29:42.599 --> 00:29:45.799
you're whatever. I mean, it
just it doesn't those are That's who we

452
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:49.279
are, and who we are is
not anything to be ashamed of or tiptoed

453
00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:52.119
around. It's who we are.
Yeah, I think the way that I

454
00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:55.839
want to distinguish this is, you
know, you'd say that in the book,

455
00:29:55.880 --> 00:29:57.279
you say that when people say things
like that, he can come across

456
00:29:57.319 --> 00:30:02.400
a hollow because people, especially white
people, just don't have those experiences like

457
00:30:02.440 --> 00:30:04.960
we've been talking about. So more
interestingly, it would be to reach across

458
00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:08.559
and try to understand what is your
perspective? You know, I know that

459
00:30:08.599 --> 00:30:11.720
you're different than me. You have
a look at your I love like for

460
00:30:11.799 --> 00:30:15.319
me, Like I'm very drawn to
people who show differently for me. I

461
00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:18.640
can get myself into all kinds of
trouble because I make a bee line for

462
00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:22.720
them, right, They're like,
leave me alone kind of thing. That

463
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:26.599
interesting I do. I mean,
that's what happens. But anyway, so

464
00:30:26.599 --> 00:30:29.160
it wouldn't be more interesting and productive
if we could say, you know,

465
00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:33.119
wow, what's your perspective on this
matter versus I don't see color? Right?

466
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:37.240
Yeah, so it just doesn't ring
true. Yeah, it's it's almost

467
00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:41.160
like you're just denying the whole situation, like you said so. Well,

468
00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:45.920
then the other one really quick to
talk about is when people just say things

469
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:48.799
like I'm not racist or biased,
and especially when white people say I'm not

470
00:30:48.839 --> 00:30:52.279
a racist, it can it can
come across as hollow. So when people

471
00:30:52.359 --> 00:30:56.359
just say that phrase I'm not a
racist, well, and I agree because,

472
00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:57.960
first of all, I think a
lot of people, a lot of

473
00:30:57.960 --> 00:31:03.319
white people actually had no idea what
racism is like. It like, they

474
00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:07.839
truly think they're not racist. They
don't even know it, what it's like

475
00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:11.880
to be racist or what's like to
experience racism. I should say, Okay,

476
00:31:11.880 --> 00:31:15.599
so in my experience too, and
again I'm just gonna go there at

477
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:19.359
leases every time, every time I
have ever heard that in my life,

478
00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:26.160
I'm not racist. Comma, but
there's a but what follows is totally racist.

479
00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:30.680
I was actually just at a speaking
engagement with the other a couple of

480
00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:32.960
weeks ago and we got to the
Q and A party. There was a

481
00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:34.559
guy in the audience who raised his
hand and he had a question and his

482
00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:38.480
but he started his question with with
I don't have a racist bone in my

483
00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:41.680
body, Comma, you know,
and I'm waiting for the drop, you

484
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:45.200
know, I'm waiting for the Oh, what's he gonna say? And someone

485
00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:47.720
else called him on it. Someone
else said, he said, I don't

486
00:31:47.720 --> 00:31:48.839
have a racist bone in my body, and the guys, yeah, you

487
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:52.839
do. You know. It's like, because if you're really not racist,

488
00:31:52.839 --> 00:31:56.240
why would you preface that that's what
you're gonna say if I'm not racist?

489
00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:02.559
Right right? So don't even know. I think sometimes what the offensive things

490
00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:05.880
that we're saying. One quick story, a friend of mine who's black and

491
00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:08.839
a woman, was telling me that
she started wearing her hair natural at work.

492
00:32:09.079 --> 00:32:14.480
Okay, so one of her white
counterparts or whatever said at her to

493
00:32:14.599 --> 00:32:17.960
work said to her at work one
day, oh, you're wearing your hair

494
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:22.440
natural now? And she said yeah, And then there was this pause and

495
00:32:22.480 --> 00:32:24.440
the white woman said, so are
you gonna wear it like that to the

496
00:32:24.480 --> 00:32:30.920
client meeting on Friday? Now?
Does that person think that that's that they're

497
00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:35.400
racist. I'm gonna say not,
but I was sure a racist comment because

498
00:32:35.400 --> 00:32:39.480
what you're planning is your hair.
Your hair is unacceptable. Excuse me,

499
00:32:39.519 --> 00:32:45.720
it's my hair. You know,
it's just I just think anything anytime you

500
00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:47.119
have to say I'm not racist,
and then the next word is, but

501
00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:52.559
trust me that what's coming out of
your mouth is very racist or offensive.

502
00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:55.359
Yeah. So all this for us
just a presence, you know, for

503
00:32:55.400 --> 00:33:00.240
all of us to recognize, just
start to recognize what we're saying and be

504
00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:05.160
open to recognizing how it doesn't work, why it's offensive. That's the whole

505
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:08.079
hole just here. So let's grab
our last break. Youre go so fast.

506
00:33:08.839 --> 00:33:12.200
I'm your host, doctor Elease Cortez. We've around the year with Kelly

507
00:33:12.279 --> 00:33:15.160
McDonald, the author of It's Time
to Talk About Race at Work. We've

508
00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:19.839
been talking about about some of the
problems that come with racism and those things

509
00:33:19.839 --> 00:33:22.559
around it at work. After the
break, we're going to talk more about

510
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:27.119
her methodology to starting conversations about racism
in the workplace. Stay with us,

511
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:31.480
we'll be right back. Doctor Release
Cortez is a management consultant specializing in meaning

512
00:33:31.519 --> 00:33:37.279
and purpose and inspirational speaker and author. She helps companies visioneer for greater purpose

513
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:45.359
among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership
and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment,

514
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:50.680
performance, and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite a

515
00:33:50.759 --> 00:33:53.880
Lease to speak to your organization,
please visit her at a lease Cortez dot

516
00:33:53.920 --> 00:34:06.200
com. Let's talk about how to
get your employees working on purpose. This

517
00:34:06.279 --> 00:34:09.840
is working on Purpose with doctor Relise
Cortez. To reach our program today or

518
00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:16.000
open a conversation with Elise, send
an email to Elise ali Se at Elise

519
00:34:16.119 --> 00:34:23.920
Cortez dot com. Now back to
working on Purpose. Thanksteresting with us,

520
00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:27.480
and welcome back to the program.
One or a bit of news I want

521
00:34:27.519 --> 00:34:30.159
to share with you. A last
August of twenty one, I was able

522
00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:32.239
to get out the anthology that I've
been working on for the last couple of

523
00:34:32.280 --> 00:34:36.239
years. It's called Passionately Striving and
why what it did was I went out

524
00:34:36.239 --> 00:34:39.039
and scouted the globe to find twenty
five women from all over the place to

525
00:34:39.079 --> 00:34:43.440
share their really intimate story of how
they've discovered their purpose there now serving from

526
00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:45.599
it. And that the book is
categorized by their path to purpose. So

527
00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:50.519
the idea is is that through telling
our stories you get access to more of

528
00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:52.840
your purpose or help you check it
out as well. You're just joining us

529
00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:57.000
today. My guest is Kelly McDonald. She's a professor, professional speaker,

530
00:34:57.039 --> 00:35:00.239
and expert on diversity in business.
She's the author of its Time to Talk

531
00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:04.400
About Race at Work. I'm your
host, Alice Cortez. So one of

532
00:35:04.440 --> 00:35:07.800
the things I really appreciate about your
book is it's just it has such an

533
00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:12.079
accessibility to it, Kelly, And
it's conversational and it's it's inviting. So

534
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:15.280
you toward the end of the book, you start talking about how to open

535
00:35:15.320 --> 00:35:20.599
a conversation about these really really uncomfortable
matters for people. And so I'll read

536
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:22.079
this first and then I want you
if you want to speak more to it.

537
00:35:22.119 --> 00:35:25.079
But you know, just as a
way to be able to open a

538
00:35:25.079 --> 00:35:30.960
conversation, you offer a sample conversation
which might go something like this. It's

539
00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:34.559
at our best interest to make sure
that everyone in this department or team or

540
00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:38.119
company has equal opportunity to learn,
grow and advance professionally. We need to

541
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:43.119
have regular, ongoing conversations about race
and inequity at work so that we can

542
00:35:43.159 --> 00:35:46.920
address the things we do that aren't
working and come up with new solutions that's

543
00:35:47.000 --> 00:35:52.159
inviting. Yeah, you can't.
You can't demonize the people that you work

544
00:35:52.199 --> 00:35:55.119
with. You can't demonize the reader. You can't demonize the people who are

545
00:35:55.159 --> 00:35:59.679
actually like listening right now, watching
and trying to do better and be better.

546
00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:04.119
It's it's a it's an uncomfortable conversation
and a lot of people and I

547
00:36:04.199 --> 00:36:07.360
understand why feel that, you know, in this day and age, like

548
00:36:07.400 --> 00:36:08.960
they're like, you know, I'm
so afraid of saying the wrong thing or

549
00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:12.320
doing the wrong thing that I'm just
going to say nothing. You know.

550
00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:15.960
Good for business at least, I
think we have to be able to talk

551
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:19.760
about, you know, all the
things that affect business. And you would

552
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:22.760
talk about marketing, you would talk
about technology, you would talk about you

553
00:36:22.760 --> 00:36:25.000
know, employees, you would talk
about everything. You would talk about sales.

554
00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:29.760
We have to talk about diversifying our
teams. And then what's that like

555
00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:31.920
for the employees. They don't have
a roadmap on how to do this.

556
00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:37.800
And that's what I'm trying to provide
is like, these are the reasons why

557
00:36:37.840 --> 00:36:39.719
those things don't work, and here's
other ways that do work. You can't

558
00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:45.519
give people it don't without giving them
a due. I liking what you're doing,

559
00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:49.519
Kelly to You know, before we
didn't really learn how to how to

560
00:36:49.559 --> 00:36:53.199
manage conflict at home or in school. So I know for years I've worked

561
00:36:53.199 --> 00:36:58.519
with crucial conversations. Since people learn
how to manage conflict productively, you are

562
00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:02.400
now helping us manage come stations around
race productively, and I think that's extremely

563
00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:07.920
useful. So you're welcome, And
I like, here you're starting methodology.

564
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:10.079
You've got an acronym here that I
think is really useful and accessible. So

565
00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:14.559
let's talk about that next. Okay, I'm gonna buzt through this really quick

566
00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:16.599
because starting if I'm not Mistaken has
eight letters, and so each one of

567
00:37:16.599 --> 00:37:22.079
them became so. But it has
to start with sincerity. I mean,

568
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:25.000
you know, at the beginning of
this conversation, at least I said something

569
00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:28.039
like, if you're the guy who's
going, well, I guess we're doing

570
00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:31.119
diversity here at the office, and
my bonus depends on it. That's not

571
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:35.800
a sincere effort. That's not who's
ever going to sincerely get behind it.

572
00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:39.480
So I really applaud your viewers and
your listeners here today because they're tuning in

573
00:37:39.559 --> 00:37:43.760
to hear us talk about this,
and that tells me that they want to

574
00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:45.639
do better and be better, and
I think most of us do. So

575
00:37:45.719 --> 00:37:50.360
it starts with that sincere effort and
sincerity doesn't mean you're going to do it

576
00:37:50.440 --> 00:37:52.679
right. It doesn't mean you're going
to do it perfectly. It just means

577
00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:54.760
that, by gosh, I'm gonna
try. Okay, I'm gonna try.

578
00:37:55.039 --> 00:37:59.199
So that's the ass. The T
stands for transparency, and I think that

579
00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:02.719
especially leaders have the opportunity to say, Look, I've never done this before.

580
00:38:02.880 --> 00:38:06.119
I've never talked about race at work. I think I'm gonna be a

581
00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:08.880
little clunky. I hope you're going
to bear with me, because we need

582
00:38:08.920 --> 00:38:14.920
to talk about this and that is
transparent. And people trust transparency because when

583
00:38:14.920 --> 00:38:17.480
you see that simply and that clearly
there's nothing to hide behind, nobody's going

584
00:38:17.519 --> 00:38:21.239
to leave a meeting like that going
I wonder what he or she was trying

585
00:38:21.280 --> 00:38:22.679
to say. I wonder what they
were trying you know, what did they

586
00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:27.599
mean? So that transparency has to
be there as well as what the purpose

587
00:38:27.719 --> 00:38:30.519
is. Right, Like, we're
not very diverse. We need to work

588
00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:35.639
on changing that and that's why we're
having this meeting or this conversation. The

589
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:38.000
A stands for acknowledgment, And again, I think this is where a lot

590
00:38:38.039 --> 00:38:43.519
of white people would rather just sleep, you know, all the uncomfortableness under

591
00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:45.280
the rug and go let's go from
here. But I think what we have

592
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:52.039
to acknowledge is things haven't always been
fair, things haven't always been you know

593
00:38:52.199 --> 00:38:58.079
equal. Quick story a friend of
mine there's a very good high school in

594
00:38:58.119 --> 00:39:00.320
his city, a very good high
school, etremely esteemed, and he said,

595
00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:05.920
every time we get an employee,
an applicant for an employee who comes

596
00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:08.679
from that high school, we immediately
say that's our guy. And that may

597
00:39:08.679 --> 00:39:12.679
not be the most qualified person.
Maybe the most qualified person didn't go to

598
00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:15.480
that high school. They went to
a different high school in a different neighborhood,

599
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:19.920
and they're actually way more qualified.
So how do we actually level that

600
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:22.840
playing field? You know? And
so that's what we're talking about here,

601
00:39:22.840 --> 00:39:24.639
and that acknowledgement of like, we
can do better, and what does that

602
00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:30.280
look like? Then? The ards
respect and respect is having the guts and

603
00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:36.480
being able to listen to people's experiences, respect them, not downplay them,

604
00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:42.400
not dismiss them. Not refute them, and just truly, respectfully say will

605
00:39:42.440 --> 00:39:45.519
you help us do better? This
is going to take all of us.

606
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:49.480
It's not somebody else's job, it's
our job. So that's the R.

607
00:39:49.599 --> 00:39:54.360
The other T is tools. We
can't just go, let's be better at

608
00:39:54.360 --> 00:40:00.880
diversity. I mean how like so
literally this as a tool. That's why

609
00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:02.519
I wrote the book, is like, people don't know how and they're terrified

610
00:40:02.559 --> 00:40:06.719
of saying the wrong thing. So
we can't just say that we're going to

611
00:40:06.760 --> 00:40:07.880
be more diverse here, and by
gosh, you're a part of the solution,

612
00:40:07.880 --> 00:40:12.079
and you've got to actually tell people
like, so, here's what that

613
00:40:12.119 --> 00:40:14.559
looks like, and here's where we're
going to start. And these are the

614
00:40:14.599 --> 00:40:16.760
conversations we're going to continue to have, and we're going to work through issues,

615
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:21.039
we're going to solve problems. We're
going to talk. So that is

616
00:40:21.400 --> 00:40:25.159
the tools. And then the eye
is investment. And investment can be time,

617
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:29.760
it can be money. But this
is where a lot of businesses that

618
00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:31.239
I've heard about they kind of go, you know, diversity is just too

619
00:40:31.239 --> 00:40:35.639
expensive. I can't I just can't
allocate the headspace to it or anything.

620
00:40:35.639 --> 00:40:37.679
And I'm thinking, would you really
do that with any other part of your

621
00:40:37.679 --> 00:40:42.360
business. You have to invest in
technology. You have to invest in software,

622
00:40:42.400 --> 00:40:44.920
you have to invest in marketing materials, you have to invest in a

623
00:40:44.960 --> 00:40:49.000
salesforce. I mean, we invest
in business. This is good for business,

624
00:40:49.119 --> 00:40:52.239
it's been proven, invest in it. And then the end is nurturing.

625
00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:57.079
And I think it's really important.
And I really spelled this out in

626
00:40:57.079 --> 00:40:59.920
the book because I said a lot
of people think the word nurture is very

627
00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:02.239
guy like, Oh my gosh,
I've got to coddle these people, you

628
00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:06.519
know, like I've got to like
And it doesn't mean that. It means

629
00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:10.039
setting people up for success. And
one quick example, a friend of mine

630
00:41:10.119 --> 00:41:15.000
is a black professor at the University
of Utah, and she was telling me

631
00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:17.920
that earlier in her career, her
boss, who's white, called her into

632
00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:21.920
her office one day and said so
and said, is going to be retiring

633
00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:25.800
in six months. Do you want
her job? And my friend said yes,

634
00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:30.400
And she said, Okay, we've
got six months to get you ready.

635
00:41:30.519 --> 00:41:32.280
You're gonna need to sit on some
committees, you're gonna need to meet

636
00:41:32.360 --> 00:41:36.440
some people, you're gonna need to
understand how this works. I'm going to

637
00:41:36.519 --> 00:41:37.880
help you I'm gonna get you on
those committees, but you're the one who's

638
00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:42.159
going to do the work in that
community and put in the hours. And

639
00:41:42.519 --> 00:41:45.599
this, to me, that's nurturing
is she gave her an opportunity and set

640
00:41:45.639 --> 00:41:50.679
her up to succeeds so that by
the time she was a legitimate candidate,

641
00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:53.880
she was ready. She was pified, you know. So that's what nurturing

642
00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:58.599
to me is is seeing those opportunities
and saying, how can I actually help

643
00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:00.480
lift up somebody and make sure that
they're set up to succeed. I'm not

644
00:42:00.519 --> 00:42:04.840
going to do the work for you, but I'm gonna give you every opportunity

645
00:42:05.039 --> 00:42:07.719
to succeed, and I'm going to
open some doors. And then the last

646
00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:09.880
thing g is goals. You know. It's like anything else. If I

647
00:42:09.880 --> 00:42:14.840
want to lose fifteen pounds, like
okay, that's a that's a goal that

648
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:16.440
I put in the a stake in
the ground, Like I'm gonna know how

649
00:42:16.440 --> 00:42:20.599
I'm progressing on that. You know, did am I downtown ten or twelve?

650
00:42:20.679 --> 00:42:23.480
I got three to go? So, like anything else, I love

651
00:42:23.679 --> 00:42:29.000
Levi Strauss and Company because Chipberg,
the CEO, wrote an open letter to

652
00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:31.519
the world and said Here are the
I'm making this up. Here are the

653
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:36.079
nineteen or twenty things that we're going
to do next year. And they were

654
00:42:36.239 --> 00:42:38.639
they were specific, and he was
like, we're going to, uh,

655
00:42:39.199 --> 00:42:42.719
you know, hire, We're going
to make sure that forty percent of our

656
00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:47.119
pipeline candidates are diverse, because you
can only get diverse people to work for

657
00:42:47.159 --> 00:42:52.039
your company if they're in the pipeline, and you know, like but putting

658
00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:53.800
numbers to it so that they could
look back and go, did we do

659
00:42:53.840 --> 00:42:57.679
that? Did we meet that goal? Okay? What do we have to

660
00:42:57.719 --> 00:43:00.199
refine so that we can meet it
next year? Okay? Like what are

661
00:43:00.199 --> 00:43:02.639
the tweaks? So people have to
know what they're working toward, and then

662
00:43:02.679 --> 00:43:06.800
they have to be able to celebrate
those successes along the way, because if

663
00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:09.760
you've set those goals, people are
going to meet them and they were part

664
00:43:09.760 --> 00:43:14.719
of a success. Oh that's just
all just gorgeous, Kelly. I love

665
00:43:14.760 --> 00:43:16.000
all that, and you do beautiful
job of sharing that in the book too,

666
00:43:16.000 --> 00:43:20.280
by the way. Okay, so
we're getting close to the end here.

667
00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:22.599
So what I want to do next
is now, if you are listening

668
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:28.079
or watching and you are a white
male, I'm gonna I'm gonna give you

669
00:43:28.159 --> 00:43:31.079
a special invitation. Yep. Okay. So one of the things that Kelly

670
00:43:31.079 --> 00:43:34.320
says in her book, she says, if you're a white male in a

671
00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:38.400
leadership role, you can create change
more than anyone and more than you realize.

672
00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:43.840
So tell us why, Kelly the
reason is. And this is again

673
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:47.519
me going there and just being blunt
at least what man have perceived as neutral.

674
00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:52.320
So one of the things I hear
often is as a white person talking

675
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:54.239
about diversity and people are like,
wow, but you're white. You know

676
00:43:55.079 --> 00:44:00.320
it's it's it's an opportunity not to
be missed. Because if a BAC or

677
00:44:00.360 --> 00:44:04.960
a brown or gay or Muslim or
any other diverse group or whatever starts to

678
00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:07.960
talk about diversity at work, what
happens often, not always, but often

679
00:44:08.199 --> 00:44:12.880
is people say or think, well, of course she's going to say that

680
00:44:12.960 --> 00:44:15.039
she's a black woman, or of
course they're going to say that that's a

681
00:44:15.159 --> 00:44:20.239
Hispanic person. Of course they look
at it that way. So and even

682
00:44:20.320 --> 00:44:23.559
as a white woman, as a
woman, I get dismissed in the same

683
00:44:23.719 --> 00:44:28.000
way. I mean, so when
we're talking about this, if you're a

684
00:44:28.039 --> 00:44:31.719
white man and you want to make
the needle move in your company on diversity,

685
00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:37.400
equity, inclusion. You are perceived
as neutral. So if you say

686
00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:40.960
this is important, we're going to
work on this, people go, oh,

687
00:44:42.159 --> 00:44:44.679
he doesn't seem to have an agenda. He doesn't seem to have a

688
00:44:44.719 --> 00:44:47.639
flag that he's carrying. You know, like what, it's not dismissed.

689
00:44:47.679 --> 00:44:52.440
It's absolutely a gift. I don't
want to say that it's a gift to

690
00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:55.519
be a white meal, but that
neutrality is the gift. Use it.

691
00:44:55.519 --> 00:45:00.440
It's use it for good. You
have no idea how powerful you are.

692
00:45:00.760 --> 00:45:04.320
And there's an opportunity there that I
think a lot of especially white men,

693
00:45:04.360 --> 00:45:07.119
feel like, wow, I guess
there's so much focused on diversity. I

694
00:45:07.159 --> 00:45:09.639
don't really have a place here.
Oh yes you do. You can lead

695
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:14.360
us there, and you can take
a team there in a way that is

696
00:45:15.719 --> 00:45:20.280
more powerful than you realize, because
you will not be dismissed if you are

697
00:45:20.360 --> 00:45:23.719
behind this. It gets real serious
in a good way. I totally get

698
00:45:23.760 --> 00:45:28.119
that. This is so beautiful.
All right, So we're coming very close

699
00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:30.280
to the end of the hour.
I know there's one more thing, So

700
00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:31.559
I guess what I need to do
at this point is since we're coming to

701
00:45:31.599 --> 00:45:34.920
a close is let me let you
close as you like. The show is

702
00:45:34.920 --> 00:45:37.920
listening to white people all over the
world who are interested in creating a workplace

703
00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:39.639
where people actually want to come to
work and do their best. We create

704
00:45:39.679 --> 00:45:43.360
interprational leaders that believe to their greatness, and we do business a better as

705
00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:46.880
the world. What would like to
leave them with? What I want to

706
00:45:46.960 --> 00:45:52.760
leave you with is actually two quotes, if I may. One is from

707
00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:58.079
a guy named Kwamee Christian and he
wrote, the most the best things in

708
00:45:58.119 --> 00:46:01.800
life are on the other side of
a different old conversation. And I completely

709
00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:05.760
agree with that, and you can
apply that to any other thing in your

710
00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:07.039
life, your relationship with your spouse. I mean, anytime you have a

711
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:13.039
difficult conversation, you come out feeling
better afterwards because you actually talked about it.

712
00:46:13.239 --> 00:46:15.559
The other one I want to leave
your viewers and listeners with is one

713
00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:19.840
from Maya Angelou that I can almost
not get through this without getting emotional.

714
00:46:19.880 --> 00:46:24.719
But she said, do the best
you can until you know better, and

715
00:46:24.719 --> 00:46:29.199
then when you know better, do
better. And that's all we're trying to

716
00:46:29.199 --> 00:46:30.519
do, is I think all of
us are just trying to know better and

717
00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:35.159
do better and be better, and
it starts with us. This is not

718
00:46:35.239 --> 00:46:39.599
somebody else's problem. This is all
of our problem. Okay, Kelly,

719
00:46:39.639 --> 00:46:43.840
So now we're both crying. That's
great, a lot, a great way

720
00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:46.440
to finish the show. But Kelly, what that speaks to is your passion

721
00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:52.480
for this is this is for this
is your real core work. Well,

722
00:46:52.840 --> 00:46:54.880
this is not just speak in the
world, this is your more work.

723
00:46:55.440 --> 00:46:58.760
No, this is my purpose.
And then that's why I'm very honored to

724
00:46:58.800 --> 00:47:01.559
be a guest on your show of
working on Purpose because it's my I started

725
00:47:01.599 --> 00:47:05.519
off doing it because it was so
cool for business to see the business opportunity,

726
00:47:05.559 --> 00:47:08.440
and I ended up realizing that this
is my calling and how beautiful that

727
00:47:08.519 --> 00:47:12.039
is. See the difference that we
get to make in the world when we

728
00:47:12.079 --> 00:47:15.320
work from purpose. Let's invite anybody
listening to the show, please find your

729
00:47:15.400 --> 00:47:19.760
purpose served from It's amazing. Kelly. I am thrilled to know you,

730
00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:22.320
to have you in my life,
to have cross paths with you. One

731
00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:24.920
word of warning, I've been known
to show up on the doorsteps so people

732
00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:28.159
have had in my show. So
just so you know, okay, yea,

733
00:47:29.280 --> 00:47:32.280
make sure I'm home. Yeah,
it happened, So just delighted to

734
00:47:32.360 --> 00:47:36.559
have read your book cover to cover. Let it let its contents and fuse

735
00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:38.639
into me and share them now with
listeners and viewers, and I hope we

736
00:47:38.679 --> 00:47:42.639
get some really good, interesting engagement
about this conversation. So thank you for

737
00:47:42.679 --> 00:47:45.880
being on the show. Yes,
your audience absolutely, listeners, viewers.

738
00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:49.800
You want to learn more about telling
McDonald her work or her books, start

739
00:47:49.800 --> 00:47:52.519
by visiting her website. It's McDonald
marketing dot com. Let me spell that

740
00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:59.840
for you, so it's mcdo in
ald marketing dot com. Last week,

741
00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:02.360
miss the live show you you can
always catch recorded podcast. We were on

742
00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:07.360
the air with Fixed how to Perfect
the Fine Art of Problem Solving. It

743
00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:12.960
was a delightful conversation about how she
teaches people from all industries to become better

744
00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:17.679
communicators and problem solvers by learning to
observe and describe art who's fascinating. It's

745
00:48:17.679 --> 00:48:21.639
a perfect and delicious collision. If
you will. Next week, we'll be

746
00:48:21.679 --> 00:48:23.960
on the air with Joe Camarado.
He is the CEO and founder of National

747
00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:29.920
Business Capital, and we'll be talking
about a more democratized environment appearing in workplaces

748
00:48:29.960 --> 00:48:34.159
around the country and how leaders can
take the reins on purposeful work and employee

749
00:48:34.159 --> 00:48:36.719
wellness. See there. Remember that
work is at least a further life.

750
00:48:36.719 --> 00:48:42.639
So let's work on purpose. We
hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be

751
00:48:42.760 --> 00:48:46.400
sure to tune into Working on Purpose
featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortez,

752
00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:52.800
each week on the Voice America Empowerment
Channel. Together, we'll create a world

753
00:48:52.800 --> 00:49:00.280
where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires
impassioned performance, and employees are full build

754
00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:04.320
in work that provides the meaning and
purpose they crave. See you there,

755
00:49:04.880 --> 00:49:06.320
Let's work on Purpose.