Dec. 18, 2024

Getting Better: A Doctor’s Journey from Patient to Resilient and Empathetic Healer

Getting Better: A Doctor’s Journey from Patient to Resilient and Empathetic Healer

What happens when a seasoned doctor finds himself on the other side of the stethoscope and surgery blade? In this episode, Dr. Andrew Kadar shares the transformative journey behind his book, Getting Better. Drawing from his personal experience as an...

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What happens when a seasoned doctor finds himself on the other side of the stethoscope and surgery blade? In this episode, Dr. Andrew Kadar shares the transformative journey behind his book, Getting Better. Drawing from his personal experience as an open-heart surgery patient and his professional medical expertise, Dr. Kadar reveals insights into the challenges of recovery, the power of resilience, and the lessons he hopes to impart to patients, caregivers, and healthcare professionals alike.

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WEBVTT

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The topics and opinions express in the following show are

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What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the

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answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose

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at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their

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lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization

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in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide

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guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we

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all want working on Purpose. Now here's your host, doctor

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Elise Cortez.

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Welcome back to the Working and Purpose Program, which has

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been brought to you with passionate price since February of

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twenty fifteen. Great to have you back again. I'm your host,

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doctor Elise Cortes. If we have not met before and

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you don't know me, I'm an organizational psychologist and local therapist,

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speaker and author. My team and I at Gusto Now

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help companies to enliven and fortify their operations by building

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a dynamic, high performance culture and inspirational leadership activated by

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meaning and purpose. You can learn more about us on

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how we can work together at gustodashnow dot com and

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my personal site, Eliscortes dot com. Before we get into

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today's program, I'm thrilled to an ounce that registration is

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now open for a fabulous new conference for women for

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your leadership, to incorporating nature and art into your life

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to raise consciousness and much more. Visit Thrive dash In

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twenty five the number twenty five dot com from information

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all caps to gain access to the free books and programs.

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I'll be also gifting to registrants. See you there now

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getting in today's program. We have with us today. Doctor

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Andrew Kadar a physician at Cedars and I Medical Center,

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a Diplomat of the American Board of Anesthesiology and a

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Fellow of the American Society of Anesthesiologists. He's the author

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of Getting Better, a Doctor's Story of Resilience, recovery and Renewal.

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We'll be talking about his own story of moving from

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doctor to patient, his own patient experience of being treated

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in healing, and some of his ideas for improving healthcare

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delivery and navigating healing for patients. Doctor Kdar, Welcome to

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Working on Purpose.

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Thank you very much. Happy to be here.

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It's really great to have you to get to celebrate

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this amazing thing you brought into the world.

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This is a.

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Beautiful book, and as you're welcome. As I told you

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before we got on are together. I felt like I

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was sitting right next to you, alongside you in your

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hospital room, at your bedside there next to your wife,

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Rachel It was really a really an amazing experience to

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get this to read this book, So thank you for

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bringing into the world for us especially. I really feel

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like you're doing sit a beautiful service from both the

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vantage point of being a doctor as well as what

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it is to be a patient.

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Yes, while I was going through this experience, I realized

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that I was learning quite a bit from it and

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that I could explain it from both the point of

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view of a doctor and a patient, and I thought

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that that would be helpful for other people as well,

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and that's why I wrote this book.

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Well, that's fantastic. I definitely want to hear a bit

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about the story because people haven't read the book like

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I have. But let's first start with the notion that

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you are a doctor, doctor Kdar, why not an archaeologist?

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You know, why aren't you in marketing? Why you know?

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Why did you pursue mention?

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You know?

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When I was in the high school. In college, I

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envy my colleagues who I knew what they wanted to do.

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From an early age. I did not. I searched around

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quite a bit.

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My undergraduate major was physics, but when I was in

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the lab in my junior year, I realized that I

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wasn't happy being all alone by myself in the lab,

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and I wanted more interaction with people. So I started

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looking around for other things that I could use my

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scientific background but would be.

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More people oriented.

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And that's how I eventually drifted over to first thinking

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about biophysics and biomedical engineering, and then finally going into medicine.

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You know, it's quite a niche that you're an ant apysiologist.

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When I had my daughter twenty one years ago, I'm

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sure you probably had similar experiences with your patients. But

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of course I promptly proposed to him once he gave

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me the medicine. You mappins, I get that a lot.

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Well.

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I think our job is twofold one is to make

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people comfortable. And when people have a procedure or an

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anesthetic for an operation, naturally you're anxious. And our job

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is to calm people down to make them more comfortable.

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And some of that is how you.

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Interact with people, and some of it, of course, we

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get a lot of good help from pharmacology as well.

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For sure.

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Okay, so now we really have to open the show

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by letting our listeners and viewers understand a bit of

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just what you went through. So we don't want to

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go into all the details. We wouldn't be able to

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get through the other questions I had planned for you.

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But let's help them understand what happened to you, How

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did you recognize that you needed some treatment, what was

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going on, and then kind of walk us through the

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early stages of the everything you went through.

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It started out typically how cornery disease usually presents. I

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was working out in the gym and all of a sudden,

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I felt some burning in the center on my chest,

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and of course I thought about heart disease. I mean,

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everybody knows that the most common presentation of heart disease

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is a pain in the chest. But I know I

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didn't have heart disease because I had none of the

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usual risk factors. I did not have high blood pressure,

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was not overweight, never smoked, I worked out regularly, and

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I had a great family history. My father lived to

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be ninety four. He was still hiking with me in

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the Rockies when he was eighty six, So I know

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I didn't have heart disease. And so that time I

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just decided, Okay, I'm not feeling well, I'll knockoff today.

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And now I knew that the most common presentation of

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heart disease of cornea disease is test pain that comes

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on with exercise and goes away promptly with rest. So

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those three things, the location and coming on with exercise

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and going away with rest. I also knew about denial,

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which is a tendency for people to ignore symptoms of

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diseases that they don't want to have. So it's very

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common with cancer, it's very common with heart disease because

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people dread those illnesses. And unfortunately I did exactly what

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a lot of other people do, is just wanted to denial.

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And I thought, Okay, I don't have heart disease. I'll

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just ignore this. But three days later I was back

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in the gym.

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Then again, nine minutes into a fairly intensive workout, I

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had the burning again. This time I stopped and I thought, okay.

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I'm going to see what's going on.

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It went away, and I started pedaling on the elliptical again,

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and now in about two minutes I had the burning.

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Now at that point, I got off the exercise and sat.

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Down and thought to myself, Okay, I don't have heart disease,

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but what would I tell anybody else who had these symptoms,

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and then the answer became obvious. And I think that

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the first lesson to me was how to get away

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from denial. And the best way I know is take

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it away from yourself, because we're all too close to

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our own selves. I I was quite sure I didn't

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have heart disease, but these symptoms dictated what needed to

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be done. And once I took it away from myself,

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I was able to make an appointment with my doctor

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and eventually get the treatment I needed.

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And it wasn't very much time, right once you determined

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that you need to get this checked out, it was

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we're talking about a day or two, right, It was.

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About four or five days before I had the stress test.

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But once I had the stress test, it showed obvious

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signs of coronary ority disease. Next day I had the agigrams,

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and I thought that there would probably be most one

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vessel that they could dilay and I could go back

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to work the following day. But instead it turned out

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to be a triple vessel disease. So three vessels were involved,

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including a fairly large occlusion in the largest cordinary artery,

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which is that occlusion is popularly known as the widow

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maker for the reasons you'd expected to be called that,

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And so, yeah, I needed to have surgery the next day, and.

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We'll talk more about that as we go through here,

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but I just wanted to situate for our listeners and

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viewers just what we were talking about. It's really quite

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dramatic what you went through. So then kind of a

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little bit of fast forward then, and I know this

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book has come out many years since you went through

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all that, but was there some part of your journey

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that made you think I do want to write a

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book about this. I want to capture this.

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Yeah.

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As I was going through I really from an early

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part I was thinking, you know, this is I'm learning

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from this experience and I can explain it from both

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the point of view.

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Of a patient and doctor.

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And I thought that this would be helpful for other people,

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both for patients and their family members, because the person

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that's most closely affected are your loved ones besides.

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Yourself, and when you have a major.

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Illness, pretty interesting point of view for sure, which makes

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me then I have to can't help but ask you

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this question, and that is you are a doctor who

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became a patient. How's your view on medicine and how

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it's practice been informed or altered because of that experience.

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You know, it's more an issue of experiencing what I

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already knew about, but it's quite different. It's like, you know,

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I think about.

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Reading about a car crash or talking to somebody who's

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been in a car crash and being in the.

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Car crash yourself.

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So I treated people in car crashes, but this time

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I was in the crash myself, and that was a

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very different experience. There's a lot more vulnerability involved, there

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are a lot lot more doubts involved, and it's it

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affects you more viscerally.

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I think, mm hmmmm hmm.

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Well, and then there I want to go to the

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other thing that's really interesting to me a person who

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really I care about. I'm a systems oriented person, doctor Cator.

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That's what my PhD is in human development. We did

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a lot of systems kind of work and I really

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think about the whole system. And one of the things

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that I find compelling about what you write about what

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you share in your book is you talk about the

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notion of physical recovery that's beyond the physical. It's it's

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there's emotional, there's spiritual, there's relational. So why was important

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for you to address all these different dimensions.

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Because I felt all these things really for the first time.

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I think as a physician you're somewhat removed from the

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vulnerability that patients feel. I mean I was aware of that,

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of course, but I had never felt as vulnerable. I

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never felt the I think as a young person, you

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feel immortal, and that feeling didn't go away for me

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until this happened. I think having this experience where you're

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really facing the possibility of perhaps not making it through,

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or at least being aware that this could be a

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deadly situation, puts it in, puts your life.

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In a different perspective.

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And I think that there are other people who can

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perhaps get to that without having this kind of experience.

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But this is the experience that brought it home for me.

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Are you able to articulate, like you know, having gone

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through something like this, I would imagine that it does

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change people in many many ways. Are you able if

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that's true for you? Are you able to articulate who

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is doctor Kidar before and who is after this experience?

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I think what it did is it made me think

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a lot more about my impact on other people and

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what I want to and how I want.

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To affect other people. Now it's not that.

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I wasn't didn't consider myself a kind of caring person before,

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but I pay a lot more attention.

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To how I affect other people.

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So in practical terms, I think more about complementing the

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people I work with and showing appreciation for the things

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that they do for.

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Me and things that they do for others.

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So I think it made me, perhaps in some ways,

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a more empathetic person because this experience brought home the

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fact that life is finite and I want to leave

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a positive influence on others in my life.

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Okay, not to at all diminish what you just said there,

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but now you've given me a remarkable idea, doctor k Dr,

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because of the results of what happened for you was

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exactly what I do within my company, which is a

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human and organizational transformational organization, and we do teach that

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being able to communicate how help people matter and what

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their contribution is because that speaks to meaning. So now

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what I realize is all I have to do to

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do my work really well is to ensure that everyone

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has a heart attack.

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That's it now, one thing I did not have a

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heart of that right.

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I got that, I know, But to produce a similar

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kind of an outcome, I'm thinking, that's what I need

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to head for. Just kidding on that note, let's take

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our first break, because I want to come back and

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talk about the patient experience as well as what you're

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learning from as a practitioner from what you've gone through.

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I'm your host, Alice Cortez, and we were on the

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air with doctor Andrew Kidar, a his physician at Cedar

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Sinai Medical Center, a diplomat of the American Board of

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Anesesiology and a fellow of the American Society of Anisthesiologist.

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We've been talking a bit about his own journey of

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going from a doctor to a patient and what he

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went through. After the break, we're going to talk a

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little bit about his patient experience and also the importance

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of resiliencing recovery.

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We'll be right back.

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Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning

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and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies

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visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired

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leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and

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commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite

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Alease to speak to your organization, please visit her at

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elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your

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employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with

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doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to

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00:16:37.960 --> 00:16:41.039
open a conversation with Elise, send an email to Elise

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alisee at eliscortes dot com. Now back to working on Purpose.

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Thanks for stating with us, and welcome back to working

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on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as I

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am dedicated to help them create a world where people

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realize their potential at work are led by those inspirational

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leaders that help them find and contribute their greatness and

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do business that better is the world. I continue to

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research and write my own books, so my last one

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came out in March of twenty twenty three. It's called

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a Great Revitalization. How activating meaning and purpose can radically

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in liven your business and I want to help leaders

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understand the lay of today's land. What does a workforce

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need and want from their employers? And then I offer

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twenty two best practices to help equip you to be

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able to create that in your culture. You can find

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more about my books on my websites at leastcoretests dot

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com and also on Amazon if you are just now

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joining us. My guest is doctor Andrew Kaidar, a physician

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and the author of Getting Better, a doctor's Story of resilience, recovery,

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and Renewal. So I want to deal a little bit

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into the experience that you had of being a patient.

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And I really thought to myself, Cash, that must have

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been really hard for you, because you knew so much,

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and you were trying to honor and respect all of

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your caregivers, and so you're obviously very familiar with a

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healthcare system. I'm curious to know what might have apprised

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you by being a patient.

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I think one lesson to me was to expect the unexpected.

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Now I knew that that complications occur or set backs occur,

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but a couple of things One I expect. I expect

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that to have the smoothest course ever anybody ever.

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Had after open heart surgery.

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Part of the reason for that was I was in

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a gymnast in college and my teammates would routinely get

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back to the gym and half the time they were

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predicted to that would take to heal. And so I

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used to think that doctor's routinely exaggerated the amount of

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time it took to recuperate. Once I got into medicine,

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I realized that I was looking at an atypical sample

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because I was because young athletes who are highly motivated

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and are in good shape are going to recover somewhat faster.

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There's another thing in medicine is that doctors or nurses

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make poor patients if they think they know better than

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their positions and they don't follow directions.

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And I wanted to shatter all that.

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I was going to recover more rapidly than anybody possibly could.

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It didn't work out that way because I had a

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number of complications, and these are things that are beyond

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my control.

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But I ended up staying in the ICU.

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Longer after surgery, and I ended up staying in the

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hospital longer after surgery because I had a number of complications,

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some of which I knew could be expected and some

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of which I was unfamiliar with. So it's the old

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case of the known unknowns and the unknown unknowns, and

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I had some of each. For example, among the unknown

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unknown to me was that after I woke up from surgery,

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I had difficulties swallowing, so every meal was an ordeal.

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I would call and sputtering and just couldn't swallow, particularly solids.

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And once I got an E and T consult, I

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found out that this is not a common complication, but

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something that does happen, and it tends to go away in.

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Under a month.

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So once I knew that, I felt considerably better, because

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at least I knew that this was going to be

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a short lived thing that I had to deal with.

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And then there are complications that I knew about that

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could happen, but of course I didn't know that would

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happen to me, and I was quite surprised by severity,

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and one of those was hiccups.

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Now, hit ups are.

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Usually a minor nuisance, but while in medical school I

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learned that sometimes the cups go on for months and

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even years, and some people have even died of hiccups

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when the diaphragm would get so exhausted they couldn't.

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Breathe that E quickly. Now, at that.

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Time, when I was medical school, the killer hiccups were

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It's laughable to me as an attack of the killer tomatoes, right,

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it's you know who would have thought. But then once

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all my drains came out. Now, initially I had a

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few hiccups, but as my drains came out, I started

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having more and more, And when the final one came out,

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I had an attack of hiccups like I'd never experienced before.

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It was really staccato hiccups, one on top of the

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other hiccups. It just wouldn't quit. And there are several

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ways of getting rid of hiccups. There are the mechanical ways,

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which is swallowing like grainy sugar, or reaching up as

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high as you can and swallowing things to irritate the

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nurvese that supplied diaphragm, and but I couldn't swallow at least,

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so that was out. And after heart surgery you're not

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supposed to reach have your arms eyes above your shoulders,

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So these mechanical methods were out. So we're left with

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pharmacologic methods, and there are plenty of those. But the

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first couple that the most common ones that my doctors tried,

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didn't do anything. So finally got a g consult, a

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guess intestinal consult, and I got medication that stopped the

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hiccups because it relaxed all mood muscle, but also also.

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Made me go to sleep for about a day.

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We need to tight trate to go back to tight

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trate the amount of medication that suppressed the hiccups but

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but didn't didn't have me go to sleep, and then

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lower it over time.

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And that's that's that's what we did. So I had

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these these.

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Complications, and I had some inflammation in one of my

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veins and that caused a high white count, which could

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be a sign of infection, but it can be a

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sign of other things. So I needed to stay in

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the hospital essentially longer than the most people well.

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And one of the ways that you coped with that,

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which showed your precociousness is you you you went out

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walking quite a bit, even past places you were supposed

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to go, and you were you were scolded by a

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nurse for going too far out of out of range

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for monitoring. So you were doing your best to try

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to recover quickly by adding the exercise in. And I

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noted very much your your precocious spirit in that.

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Yeah, uh, before my surgery, uh my askedesiologists. One of

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my colleagues told me that it's important to get out

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of bed as soon as you can then walk around

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because staying set in harry can lead to cross in

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your legs and that can cause that clock to travel

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00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:09.640
to the lungs of pulmary embulos, which is which can

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be uh make it quite sick and be fatal.

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So with my gymnastics background, I was he was speaking

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to the choir.

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I was gonna walk and do what I needed to

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do and and push myself as much as I needed

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to and and and so yes, right from day one,

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I got up and started walking and really beyond my

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comfort limit. Now obviously you can overdo that, but I

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wanted to push myself to try to get well as

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quickly as possible. And and that's just I think getting

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well after an illness is a team sport. You need

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your your doctors, your nurses, your therapist, your family members,

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and of course the patient himself for herself is a

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crucial element. And if you don't push yourself, if you

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don't help yourself, then it's going to be very difficult

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for you to recuperate, at least as well as as

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you would if you if you didn't push yourself. So

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I was determined to do whatever I needed to do

435
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to get well as quickly as possible.

436
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Mm hmmm.

437
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You know.

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One of the things that we do as management consultants

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is we it's helpful to chart the process of how

440
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an organization serves its customers. And one of the one

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of my colleagues, has been on this program talking about

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some work that she did with a health organization where

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they really literally mapped the care in a hospital system.

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And they did and so doing they went to the

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process of being a patient themselves and discovered all of

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this inefficiency et cetera, et cetera, which they could then remedy.

447
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So I'm curious, from now that you have this experience

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of being a patient, if you could talk a bit

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to know what do patients need most and recovery that

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needed a healthcare system doesn't really provide very well right now,

451
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or at least then, I.

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Think the most frustrating thing for me and most patients is.

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The priorities of the patient.

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The priorities of the healthcare system don't always mesh. Now,

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in some ways, it's a necessary component because you can't

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have a nurse assigned to you or a doctor be.

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With you around the clock.

458
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It's just not an efficient way of running things. But

459
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there should be an easy way of communicating with the

460
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people who can help you, and I think being familiar

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with the system did allow me at times to do that,

462
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to be able to get the care that I wanted

463
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by speaking the language of medicine to my nurses and

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to my doctors.

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So in that sense that was that was helpful. But

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I think others can do that.

467
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As well, very effectively by speaking the proper language of

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medicine and basically one of besides all the sophisticated tests

469
00:27:29.079 --> 00:27:33.160
we do, what the information that you get from the

470
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:37.799
patient is crucial. And there's a thing called the chief complaint.

471
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:41.759
And throughout my recuperation I realized there was always a

472
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:47.480
chief complaint, something that was bothering me the most. So

473
00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:53.599
it initially was well pain on awakening, but by day

474
00:27:53.640 --> 00:27:57.119
two it was really swallowing, and so I needed to

475
00:27:57.160 --> 00:28:00.720
be able to communicate that to my doctors. Is it's

476
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:03.200
one thing for them to write down, okay, patient complains

477
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:07.039
of difficulty swallowing and then walk away. I needed to

478
00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:10.559
be able to emphasize to them how important this was

479
00:28:10.599 --> 00:28:13.759
to me and how much it was, how distressing it was,

480
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:18.079
and that helped get the ball rolling in terms of

481
00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:24.000
getting the proper diagnosis for that. So communication in both

482
00:28:24.039 --> 00:28:29.960
directions I think is very crucial. But any patient knows

483
00:28:30.000 --> 00:28:34.680
what's bothering them the most, and by clearly saying that,

484
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:38.640
you're more likely to get help and help sooner than

485
00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:40.319
if you can't express.

486
00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:43.319
That and just sit there frustrated.

487
00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:48.960
That is great advice for patients. Great advice. So let's

488
00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:51.000
just while we're kind of on this general subject of

489
00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:53.880
what you've learned that could maybe help the system. I

490
00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:56.079
have to imagine that beyond this book, you probably have

491
00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:00.640
also spoken to audiences other medical professionals. Have you been

492
00:29:00.759 --> 00:29:04.359
counseling or sharing with them from your experience of being

493
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:08.079
a patient that could actually help them better serve their patients.

494
00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:18.400
I think it's it's basically what i'd learned was the

495
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:19.440
things that I learned.

496
00:29:19.960 --> 00:29:24.000
Doctors have read about, but they haven't necessarily experienced. And

497
00:29:25.640 --> 00:29:31.079
I try to emphasize that experiencing it is a different.

498
00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:35.400
Thing than just knowing about it. And I think that.

499
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:41.160
For me it increased. There's an increasing empathy when you've

500
00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:45.519
been there and experienced it, and it's difficult to do

501
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:51.039
that secondhand. But I think if doctors and nurses keep

502
00:29:51.079 --> 00:29:54.160
that in mind and have that in the forefront of

503
00:29:54.200 --> 00:29:59.799
their minds, they'll be able to empathize better and try

504
00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:03.720
to see things from the patient point of view better.

505
00:30:04.039 --> 00:30:06.000
But I have to say that there's a flip side

506
00:30:06.000 --> 00:30:10.880
to that in that patients also need to be aware

507
00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:15.960
of their care takers' needs because it's it's a.

508
00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:17.119
It's a two way street.

509
00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:20.680
And for example, the first night that I was out

510
00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:25.039
of the intensive care unit, my wife stayed with me overnight.

511
00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:30.759
That at theaters you can patient family member. One family

512
00:30:30.799 --> 00:30:37.359
member can stay and because of constraints of space, it's

513
00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:43.359
a small cot that's fairly uncomfortable. Discomforted the cod and

514
00:30:43.400 --> 00:30:47.119
the noises at the hospital and people coming in to

515
00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:50.240
take blood samples and vital signs.

516
00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:53.119
My wife got no sleep at all.

517
00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:56.920
So the next day we decided that she should go

518
00:30:57.000 --> 00:31:00.680
home and try to get some rest because it would

519
00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:01.480
be better for her.

520
00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:03.640
She wouldn't be so exhausted.

521
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:07.519
And there is a thing called caretaker exhaustion syndrome which

522
00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:12.640
happens when people take care of a loved one in

523
00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:16.960
a prolonged period of time, and it would be better

524
00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:19.359
for her, but it would also be better for me,

525
00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:25.480
because having an exhausted and perhaps resentful caretaker is worse

526
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:30.680
than having somebody who's who's refreshed and ready to help you.

527
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:37.119
So for and of course also your doctors and nurses

528
00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:43.000
need some consideration too. It's a nurse can't always materialize

529
00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:49.480
instantly for a non emergency need, and I think that

530
00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:54.480
when you're a patient sometimes you forget that and you're

531
00:31:54.559 --> 00:31:57.720
under some stress. And there's one episode that I write

532
00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:00.359
about that I'm not too proud out of.

533
00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:03.839
But I woke up one morning.

534
00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:08.279
And I had uh a band band uh huh.

535
00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:13.400
Yellow band that said uh a fall risk?

536
00:32:13.839 --> 00:32:19.400
Yes, now I was. I was a gymnast. I pride

537
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:22.680
myself in having good balance. So it's kind of like

538
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:27.880
think of having a band uh on a musician saying

539
00:32:27.960 --> 00:32:29.200
he's their tone deaf.

540
00:32:30.519 --> 00:32:33.279
So I was very upset by that. And then I

541
00:32:33.720 --> 00:32:35.680
and my nurses came and I said, look, I'm not

542
00:32:35.720 --> 00:32:38.039
a fall risk. I can stand on my toes, I

543
00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:41.400
can stand on one leg, and I demonstrated, and.

544
00:32:41.240 --> 00:32:43.799
They were they were not happy with me. Doing that,

545
00:32:43.960 --> 00:32:45.480
so you all, I said.

546
00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:50.319
No, I won't, and and I made a bigger fuss

547
00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:55.720
over something that was really inconsequential than than in retrospect

548
00:32:55.759 --> 00:32:56.480
made any sense.

549
00:32:57.200 --> 00:32:59.440
It was, you know, your pride maybe at work there,

550
00:32:59.480 --> 00:33:03.119
So that that much fantastic advice. Let's grab our last break.

551
00:33:03.240 --> 00:33:05.279
I'm your host, doctor Release Cortes. We're in the area

552
00:33:05.279 --> 00:33:09.440
with doctor Andrew Kadar, a physician at Cedar Sinai Medical Center,

553
00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:12.480
the Diplomat of the American Board of Fantasyesiology, and a

554
00:33:12.519 --> 00:33:15.880
Fellow of the American Society of Vantayesiologists. We've been talking

555
00:33:16.039 --> 00:33:18.519
a bit about his patient experience and what he's now

556
00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:21.960
learned to help medical professionals do their work better. After break,

557
00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:24.319
we're going to finish the conversation talking a bit about

558
00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:27.720
the importance of resilience and recovery, and also the emotional

559
00:33:27.720 --> 00:33:30.039
and spiritual aspects of healing. We'll be right back.

560
00:33:45.759 --> 00:33:48.960
Doctor Elise Courts has as a management consultant specializing in

561
00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:52.720
meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps

562
00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:56.559
companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose

563
00:33:56.599 --> 00:34:00.960
inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfilled performance

564
00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:04.039
and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to

565
00:34:04.119 --> 00:34:07.160
invite Alease to speak to your organization, please visit her

566
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:10.440
at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get

567
00:34:10.480 --> 00:34:19.280
your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose

568
00:34:19.400 --> 00:34:22.639
with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or

569
00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:25.440
to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to

570
00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:31.039
Alise A Lisee at eliscortes dot com. Now back to

571
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:32.320
working on Purpose.

572
00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:39.039
Thanks for staying with us, and welcome back to working

573
00:34:39.039 --> 00:34:41.920
on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes. I mentioned

574
00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:43.760
in the last break that my lead's book came out

575
00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:46.280
to the rate revitalization. What I did for you is

576
00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:49.000
I created a simple three page assessment you can download

577
00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:51.960
from my website at gustodeshnow dot com. And now we'll

578
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:54.239
help you understand the extent to which your current organization

579
00:34:54.360 --> 00:34:57.800
is actually meeting the needs of today's discerning workforce. If

580
00:34:57.800 --> 00:34:59.599
you are just now joining us, my guest is doctor

581
00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:02.320
Andrew Ca. You are a physician and author of Getting Better,

582
00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:06.320
a doctor's story of resilience, recovery and Renewal. So, speaking

583
00:35:06.360 --> 00:35:08.400
of that title, I do want I want to talk

584
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:11.199
about resilience and really what that word means to you,

585
00:35:11.400 --> 00:35:14.719
why it's so central to your journey and to your book.

586
00:35:19.199 --> 00:35:21.679
I think one of the things that's really important is

587
00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:25.840
to have goals. And while I was going through this

588
00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:30.159
difficult experience, I wanted to become a better person in

589
00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:33.719
the long run, not only to recover fully to where

590
00:35:33.760 --> 00:35:36.840
I had been and be able to go back to work,

591
00:35:36.920 --> 00:35:39.960
which I was able to eventually, but.

592
00:35:40.039 --> 00:35:42.920
Also to be a better person in.

593
00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:46.320
The process, and to be a more contributing person to

594
00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:51.440
others in my circle of friends and to society at large.

595
00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:54.679
And I think that having a purpose a goal is

596
00:35:55.360 --> 00:36:00.840
crucial to a full recovery. And I'm sorry not alone

597
00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:07.039
and thinking that. I think Victor Fromer, the psychiatrists who

598
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:13.360
survived Constitution Camps, noted that people who had a purpose,

599
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:16.920
people who had a goal for their lives, were the

600
00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:20.920
ones who are like to survive, to continue to go

601
00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:24.400
on despite far more difficult situation that I was in.

602
00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:27.800
Yeah, as you're talking about under Victor Frankel, I know

603
00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:30.559
he's worked very well. In fact that under a Gurdas

604
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:34.079
one of my master's degrees in logo philosophy, and that's

605
00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:37.239
what I practice as an organizational logo therapist, helping people

606
00:36:37.320 --> 00:36:40.440
to access that kind of meaning structure because they's so vitalizing.

607
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:43.519
So that's fascinating to me. Of course, I'm quite aligned

608
00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:46.599
with all of that, and I am really interested in

609
00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:49.679
your The mindset that you used to cultivate the goals

610
00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:52.480
are very important, but you also really had a very

611
00:36:52.519 --> 00:36:56.719
strong mindset that governed you throughout this whole process of

612
00:36:56.760 --> 00:36:57.719
recovering and healing.

613
00:36:59.119 --> 00:37:00.880
Yeah, I wanted to.

614
00:37:00.800 --> 00:37:04.840
Do at every stage everything that I could do to

615
00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:09.039
get well as quickly as possible. So I was willing

616
00:37:09.079 --> 00:37:12.039
to push myself for that because I felt I had

617
00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:15.679
a good life before and I wanted to have an

618
00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:19.599
equally good life, maybe a better life in the future.

619
00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:22.119
And I think that in some ways.

620
00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:27.719
It was it did work out that way. I think

621
00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:31.360
my wife and I actually grew closer together during this

622
00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:35.239
experience because we had more time to spend together, more

623
00:37:35.320 --> 00:37:41.960
time to interact, and I saw things in her strength

624
00:37:42.039 --> 00:37:47.000
and her support that I admired and appreciated, and I

625
00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:51.280
think she saw in me the effort that I was

626
00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:54.360
making to get back to the type of.

627
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:56.480
Person that she knew before.

628
00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:04.360
So the experience, I think reveals I think adversity reveals

629
00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:07.000
character to some extent for sure.

630
00:38:07.239 --> 00:38:11.280
For sure, I want to talk now about the really

631
00:38:11.280 --> 00:38:14.440
the emotional and spiritual aspects of healing that you discovered

632
00:38:14.679 --> 00:38:16.880
and went through, and you do emphasize, of course, the

633
00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:22.000
emotional spiritual sides of healing. Can you share any practices

634
00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:24.559
or tools that either were useful to you or that

635
00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:27.599
you've come to find sense that can help people navigate

636
00:38:27.639 --> 00:38:29.360
emotionally and spiritually as they heal.

637
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:34.960
You know, there are lots of different things that people use. Meditation,

638
00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:41.800
the religion, of course, is helpful for some people. In

639
00:38:41.840 --> 00:38:45.519
my case, I was very much just co oriented. What

640
00:38:45.639 --> 00:38:50.559
do I have to do today to get better as

641
00:38:50.639 --> 00:38:55.519
quickly as possible. That was my north star throughout the

642
00:38:55.559 --> 00:39:04.199
whole experience, And in the interim I've done some gotten

643
00:39:04.239 --> 00:39:07.559
more into self hypnosis and some.

644
00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:10.400
Of the techniques like that. I think.

645
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:16.280
The experience kind of motivated me to explore a little further.

646
00:39:16.760 --> 00:39:19.880
But during the time that I was recuperating, I just

647
00:39:20.199 --> 00:39:24.559
had one goal goals set in mind throughout the whole time.

648
00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:27.280
What do I need to do today to be stronger

649
00:39:27.320 --> 00:39:30.400
tomorrow and to be closer to where I want to be.

650
00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:32.519
Yeah.

651
00:39:32.599 --> 00:39:35.920
Reading your book, doctor Kator, I was very very present

652
00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:40.920
that you were fairly newly married and you were really

653
00:39:40.960 --> 00:39:45.239
focused on getting well and again for your wife too,

654
00:39:45.280 --> 00:39:47.159
for the luck which you were trying to make together

655
00:39:47.199 --> 00:39:52.280
with your wife. Is that right? Yes, let's talk about that.

656
00:39:52.360 --> 00:39:56.079
So now, how long had you been married when you

657
00:39:56.119 --> 00:39:57.639
went through the surgery? First?

658
00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:01.960
Three months? Three months?

659
00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:04.440
I thought it was something really early, okay, okay? And

660
00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:06.760
then now how many years has this been since you've

661
00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:09.519
gone through all this, because you now have two children?

662
00:40:10.719 --> 00:40:12.599
Fourteen years now? I did have.

663
00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:17.159
I have one child with my wife, and I have

664
00:40:17.920 --> 00:40:20.159
an older son from a previous marriage.

665
00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:23.880
Okay, Okay, of course you know I'm going to ask

666
00:40:23.920 --> 00:40:25.639
you this question because I can't help it. I'm an

667
00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:30.679
organizational psychologist, just interested if the way you were related

668
00:40:31.000 --> 00:40:34.280
to Rachel was different or the way maybe you might

669
00:40:34.639 --> 00:40:37.960
relate to your children now, especially since you've had the

670
00:40:38.039 --> 00:40:41.400
son before, it sounds like, and then afterwards, did this

671
00:40:41.519 --> 00:40:44.199
experience change how you related to your loved ones?

672
00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:51.400
Well, I think it brought home more the finiteness of

673
00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:56.039
life and that I need to spend as much time

674
00:40:56.239 --> 00:40:59.840
as I can to help them.

675
00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:04.039
Grow up and live a full life.

676
00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:09.320
Now my son is an adult, my daughter is twelve,

677
00:41:09.400 --> 00:41:12.079
and so I spend more much more time with my

678
00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:14.119
daughter at this point.

679
00:41:14.920 --> 00:41:18.480
But my son has done very well.

680
00:41:18.559 --> 00:41:23.400
He's grown up and as successful business of his own,

681
00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:25.440
so I'm very happy for him.

682
00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:28.840
And he's married and has a couple of kids of

683
00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:29.239
his own.

684
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:35.119
That's so beautiful. Well, now you are very uniquely positioned

685
00:41:35.199 --> 00:41:38.599
now to give some advice, I think to families and

686
00:41:38.679 --> 00:41:42.679
patients who are really struggling with the longer road to recovery.

687
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:50.480
Like you really had to navigate everything physically, financially, emotionally, spiritually, everything.

688
00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:53.480
What kind of advice do you offer to those patients

689
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:56.239
to try to help them navigate more aduptly than maybe

690
00:41:56.239 --> 00:41:57.719
they would without it.

691
00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:03.280
Well, I think the lessons that I learned had to do.

692
00:42:04.440 --> 00:42:08.159
One of the first things was, of course, when you

693
00:42:08.239 --> 00:42:11.840
have a problem, a good way to think about it is,

694
00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:15.280
what would I advise somebody else who has this problem?

695
00:42:15.360 --> 00:42:19.000
Because because you want to take it away from yourself.

696
00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:24.559
There's an old saying in medicine that a doctor who

697
00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:27.480
treats himself has a fool for a patient and a

698
00:42:27.480 --> 00:42:33.000
fool for a doctor. But by taking it away from yourself,

699
00:42:33.440 --> 00:42:38.639
you can be more objective, So I think that's one thing.

700
00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:43.880
And then if you have an illness expecting the unexpected,

701
00:42:44.039 --> 00:42:49.239
I think that's it's just life is unpredictable and recovery

702
00:42:49.280 --> 00:42:54.320
can often be unpredictable. And then it's it's very important

703
00:42:54.360 --> 00:42:57.800
to have a goal in mind, what do you want

704
00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:00.360
to gain from this? And I think if you have

705
00:43:00.400 --> 00:43:05.559
a negative experience, it's a good idea to try to

706
00:43:05.599 --> 00:43:10.000
come back and not just get back to your previous normal,

707
00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:14.199
but to get back to a better normal. And that

708
00:43:14.920 --> 00:43:18.000
was my goal and I think that helped me achieve that.

709
00:43:19.639 --> 00:43:22.079
So mindset is a big part of what I do.

710
00:43:22.360 --> 00:43:26.360
It to help the leaders that I work with in organizations.

711
00:43:26.440 --> 00:43:29.159
Arter KDR And one of the things I was actually

712
00:43:29.360 --> 00:43:32.480
very kind of struck by in your book is you

713
00:43:32.519 --> 00:43:36.519
talk about how if a patient before they go into surgery,

714
00:43:36.519 --> 00:43:39.440
if they say anything about not expecting to live through

715
00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:42.239
the surgery or they expect they're probably going to die,

716
00:43:42.559 --> 00:43:46.400
that the doctor will often not do surgery. That was

717
00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:47.239
very interesting to me.

718
00:43:48.639 --> 00:43:52.280
Yeah, I think there's some debate about that, but yes,

719
00:43:52.599 --> 00:43:56.679
I think expectations are are very important, and people who

720
00:43:56.719 --> 00:44:00.880
expect to do poorly tend to do poorly, and people

721
00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:04.440
who expect to do well have a better chance of

722
00:44:04.519 --> 00:44:05.199
doing well.

723
00:44:06.039 --> 00:44:09.800
No guarantees in life, but you want to do everything

724
00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:14.360
to help yourself and having a positive mindset is definitely

725
00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:17.679
helpful for healing. And there's there's data on that.

726
00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:21.079
And that's really what I wanted you wanted you to

727
00:44:21.119 --> 00:44:23.559
get to is just the importance of you know, like

728
00:44:23.639 --> 00:44:25.800
you were bringing up doctor Victor Frankel before, having a

729
00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:29.880
will to meaning having a will to live is so

730
00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:33.079
so important, and having something to live for. In your case,

731
00:44:33.400 --> 00:44:35.880
you know, your new wife was really an important part

732
00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:41.760
of your focus. So what do you hope that people

733
00:44:41.800 --> 00:44:43.840
get from your book? What? How do you hope that

734
00:44:44.239 --> 00:44:46.239
it serves.

735
00:44:46.639 --> 00:44:51.159
I hope that that well, first of all, after my illness,

736
00:44:51.320 --> 00:44:53.719
I was able to go back to work full time

737
00:44:54.239 --> 00:44:58.079
and have a life that has meaning for me. So

738
00:44:58.719 --> 00:45:02.559
one thing is can provide hope, because no matter how

739
00:45:02.599 --> 00:45:08.840
ill you are, there's hope. And then I want to

740
00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:13.679
be able to provide some pointers on what can happen

741
00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:14.679
and how to.

742
00:45:14.599 --> 00:45:19.000
Deal with it, and so the things.

743
00:45:20.199 --> 00:45:24.000
That I talk about how to get away from denial,

744
00:45:24.639 --> 00:45:29.920
how to expect the unexpected, and to have a positive

745
00:45:29.960 --> 00:45:33.960
mindset and to keep an eye on what's bothering you

746
00:45:34.039 --> 00:45:37.920
the most and deal with that, and then take problems

747
00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:41.000
one at a time till till all the problems are

748
00:45:41.079 --> 00:45:43.039
gone and you're back to your normal health.

749
00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:44.159
Mm.

750
00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:47.760
I just just one of the things I love asking

751
00:45:47.800 --> 00:45:51.639
people in general is what are you proud of in yourself?

752
00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:54.880
And having gone through that whole process.

753
00:45:55.880 --> 00:46:02.800
I think being able to recuperate fully and live a

754
00:46:02.840 --> 00:46:06.639
good life afterwards is probably the best best thing.

755
00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:12.440
I have been able to go back to work. I've

756
00:46:12.440 --> 00:46:15.679
been able to travel. Last year, I was.

757
00:46:17.519 --> 00:46:21.360
Hiking at seven thousand feet in Rwanda to see mountain gorillas.

758
00:46:21.519 --> 00:46:23.719
So been able to do things.

759
00:46:23.840 --> 00:46:28.039
I've also had a daughter in the interim who's twelve

760
00:46:28.159 --> 00:46:29.239
years old and thriving.

761
00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:31.920
Although she gives us a lot of grief at times.

762
00:46:32.280 --> 00:46:33.880
I think I saw her pop in earlier.

763
00:46:33.960 --> 00:46:44.079
Yes, but I think all those things are something to

764
00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:44.760
keep in mind.

765
00:46:46.840 --> 00:46:49.719
Well, this is very inspiring. Ard to Kadar, thank you

766
00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:52.119
very much for writing the book, taking the time to

767
00:46:52.119 --> 00:46:53.599
writ the book, and I did know, by the way,

768
00:46:53.800 --> 00:46:55.719
which I also think is wonderful, that part of your

769
00:46:55.800 --> 00:46:58.320
journey was to give yourself over to some of your

770
00:46:58.360 --> 00:47:01.639
more creative writing endeavors, and through this process you allowed

771
00:47:01.639 --> 00:47:03.639
yourself to do that. And now we are the better

772
00:47:03.639 --> 00:47:06.119
forward because you have read this book. So I want

773
00:47:06.159 --> 00:47:09.039
to say thank you for coming into my onto my radar,

774
00:47:09.800 --> 00:47:12.480
and into my into my studio. It has really been

775
00:47:12.599 --> 00:47:15.639
remarkable to read your whole experience and have you here

776
00:47:15.639 --> 00:47:17.559
on working in a purpose to share your experience. Thank

777
00:47:17.599 --> 00:47:18.639
you for being here.

778
00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:20.639
And thank you for letting me be here.

779
00:47:21.559 --> 00:47:24.840
Very very welcome listeners and viewers. If you want to

780
00:47:24.920 --> 00:47:27.960
learn more about doctor Andrew Kdar his work or his book,

781
00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:30.639
Getting Better, he's got a website for that. It's it's

782
00:47:30.719 --> 00:47:33.679
getting better doc dot com. Let me spell that for you.

783
00:47:34.239 --> 00:47:36.920
So getting g e t t I n G better

784
00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:39.440
b E t t e R doc d o C

785
00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:43.199
getting better doc dot com. Last week, give you missed

786
00:47:43.239 --> 00:47:44.760
the Life Show, you can always catch it be a

787
00:47:44.800 --> 00:47:47.639
recorded podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. We were

788
00:47:47.719 --> 00:47:51.039
on airw with Fabree Demasquerro talking about his work and

789
00:47:51.119 --> 00:47:54.159
his book called the Art of Retreats. At Leader's Journey

790
00:47:54.159 --> 00:47:57.800
Towards Clarity, Balance and Purpose. We talked about the importance

791
00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:00.679
of leaders taking time to go within to be an

792
00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:03.719
inquiry and decouple themselves from their work on a regular

793
00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:06.760
basis to be their most effective. Next week will be

794
00:48:06.760 --> 00:48:09.440
on the air with Richard Barrett, well known for his

795
00:48:09.559 --> 00:48:12.559
work on elevating consciousness, honoring our soul as our being,

796
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:15.400
and living and leading from values. He will be your

797
00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:18.199
early Christmas gift on Christmas Eve or whatever you actually

798
00:48:18.239 --> 00:48:21.440
observe your holiday and the gift cap your year. See

799
00:48:21.440 --> 00:48:23.320
you there, and remember work is one of the best

800
00:48:23.360 --> 00:48:25.960
adventures and means of realizer our potential and making the

801
00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:28.360
impact we crave. So let's work on Purpose.

802
00:48:31.239 --> 00:48:33.880
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to

803
00:48:33.920 --> 00:48:37.599
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,

804
00:48:37.719 --> 00:48:40.920
each week on W four C. Why Together We'll create

805
00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:45.079
a world where business operates conscientiously, Leadership inspires and passion

806
00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:48.199
performance and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the

807
00:48:48.239 --> 00:48:51.559
meaning and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work

808
00:48:51.679 --> 00:48:52.360
on Purpose.