From Ugly Universal Lies to Beautiful Individual Truths

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What's Working on Purpose anyway? Each
week we ponder the answer to this question.

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People ache for meaning and purpose at
work to contribute their talents passionately and

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know their lives really matter. They
crave being part of an organization that inspires

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them and helps them grow into realizing
their highest potential. Business can be such

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a force for good in the world, elevating humanity. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration to help
usher in this world we all want.

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Working on Purpose now. Here is
your host, Doctor Elise Cortez. Welcome

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back to the Working on Purpose program. Thanks for tuning in again this week.

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I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortez. Journey live from Dallas, Texas,

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which is home based for me.
If you've been tuning in for a

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while, you know this program is
a thought leadership series that enlightens and inspires

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listeners with insights from distinguished business leaders
in subject matter experts. Here at Working

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on Purpose, we're committed to realizing
a world where work is enriching and a

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purposeful part of life. Leaders inspire
people to realize their own greatness while contributing

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their passion and business is elevated to
an unleashing spectacular impact in the world each

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week in these conversations, I hope
you walk away with something that changes the

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way you think and that you can
really put to use. Much of the

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content we discuss in this program as
a reflection of the work I do.

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So as you listen, if you
catch a glimpse of anything that I can

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do to help, go to my
website at at least courtas dot com and

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use the contact me feature to message
me. Let's talk what's going on for

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you and how I might be able
to help at anyr rate. I'm glad

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we're connected, and thanks for listening. Now on to this week's program with

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us today as Marcus Buckingham a global
researcher and thought leader focused on unlocking strengths,

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increasing performance, and pioneering the feature
of how people work. He founded

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the Marcus Buckingham Company in two thousand
and six and is the author of several

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best best selling books, including First, Break All the Rules as well as

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Now Discover Your Strengths. He currently
heads all People and Performance Research at the

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ADP Research Institute. We'll be talking
about his latest book, co written by

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Ashley Goodall, Nine Lies About Work, a Freethinking Leader's Guide to the real

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World. You talk today from Los
Angeles, California. Marcus, Welcome to

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Working on Purpose. Thank you,
thank you for having me. Well,

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I have been stalking you for about
the last ten years. Marcus. I'm

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so glad to have you on the
show and share with my listeners. Your

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work inspires me and my work.
So let me start with a big fat

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thank you. Well, that's my
pleasure. That's that's great even still to

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me to sen years, happy to
be happy, to be still to d

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now live absolutely absolutely. Well,
let's kick this off here, and I

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want to start with the end if
we can, so playing on the last

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chapter of your book that the lie
that leadership is a thing. As I

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said, I've been following you for
quite some time, and I do subscribe

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to the Strengths philosophy and have used
your products and workshops that I've conducted.

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So I want to help. I
want to help our listeners understand because I

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know something about you, how you've
found your way into the career. You'd

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starting with finding your way to the
Gallop organization. Initially as a scientist studying

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excellency management and leadership. Why this
field and of course, I have to

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ask, how has your professional of
life unfolded? Wow, that's a big

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old question. I I come from
a family of sort of HR practitioners.

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I suppose my grandfather was right up
the Second World War. My father was

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as well, and dad running he
was basing the c HR of a very

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very large brewing company that had seven
thousand pubs, and back in the early

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eighties, he was trying to figure
out a way to select better pub managers.

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Could you do in a way that
was scientific. Could you find the

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right questions, the right talent the
best pub managers had, and could you

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select and more like them? And
he came across his global search for a

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company that knew how to do this, He came across a chat by the

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name of doctor John Clifton, and
so he brought down Clifton over to our

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house. And I was thinking seen
years old, and Don, as you

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know, was the grandfather of positive
psychologies, significantly influenced Marty Seligman in terms

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of thinking about studying what's right about
people. Don obviously a psychometrician himself,

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so built reliable assessments to measure people's
talents and strength. And I was this

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was fifteen years, I suppose before
we made the strength find a tool,

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But right away I was hooked.
I was just about to go up to

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university. And the idea that you
don't learn very much about succession studying failure,

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you don't learn about happiness and joy
from studying depression. The idea that

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excellence in all its forms has its
own configuration and that we've got to study

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it to learn about it, and
that we don't do that even from a

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very I was sixteen, for crying
out out. I was just hooked.

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Came over to Lincoln, Nebraska,
which is where the Gallup Organization happened to

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be headquar and headquarters, and went
over there in the summers while I was

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at university, and then nineteen eighty
seven eight I graduated and came to Nebraska

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for a year to really learn the
science of how do you build an instrument

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that measures people's talents when they might
not even know themselves. How do you

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do that in a way that's scientifically
rigorous. And I stayed for twenty five

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years, and first seventeen of those
or brother, yeah, first, I

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guess it's actually more than twenty five
years, isn't it any of thirty odd

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years and first fifteen of those with
the Galph organization and then wrote first Break

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all the Rules, and I was
there and obviously did the Strength Finders tool

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and now Discover your Strength with Dawn
in two thousand and one. That was

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Scottish having him January two thousand and
one. And then and then Dahn passed

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away two thousand and three, and
I just like it was time to go

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beyond just measuring people's engagement or measuring
their strength and getting in to try to

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build those things, and so build
my own my own company which is a

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coaching and development company initially and then
and then we built another sort of next

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gen strength sussessment called Standout in two
thousand and twelve, really focused on you

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obviously know strength find It very well, but it's for a team leader with

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ten people on their team, thirty
four themes that you get out on the

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response to strength find It. That's
a lot of complexity. So we build

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stand Out to try and take all
that we'd learned from Strength Finder and create

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something that was a little more focused
on what the team leader might need to

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learn about each person on their team, and then build up that business and

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then actually two seventeen, ADP,
the huge originally peril company, came in

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and said, we want to we
want to take this strength based approach and

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and an amplifier across the entire world
of work. Can we buy the stand

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out technology? And so I I
thought to myself, or if you're going

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to try to change the world of
work, you need a lot of friends,

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and ADEPS a lot of people.
So we said yes. And then

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they said, would you mind doing
some of your research here through the ADP

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Research Institute And I was like absolutely
so. So that's kind of the that's

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me in a nutshell. Was very
very fortunate to get connected with John Clifton,

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who is a real, a real
genius in this in this world of

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personal strength. Very lucky to get
connected with him right out of school,

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well while I was still in school. And then it's that's really forged my

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career for these last thirty years,
Marcus. That was brilliant, and so

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a couple of things. It sounds
to me, there's a lot of ways

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that I could say this here in
Texas. We could say you're blessed,

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You're blessed, or we could say
you're you've been selected, you've been chosen

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or you know, an angel to
tapped you on the shoulder. Regardless,

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we are the beneficiary of your work, Marcus. And yes, I know

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the Strengths. I've been a Gapered
by Strengths coach for years. I've used

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your standout instrument. Yes, I
know that too, And I think at

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last count, I think thirty three
million people across the world have taken the

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strengths. Rinder about about that numbers
that right, Yes, it's getting up

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there. I wouldn't know the latest
exactly right now, but yeah, you

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know, when we first built Strength, find of the goal here was to

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go we need to have a rigorous
way to give people a language to talk

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about themselves at their best. And
I don't think Don or I or later

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Tom Rath would say that this is
the definitive only way to describe yourself.

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But certainly at the time, you
know, two thousands, because in one

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there really wasn't a rigorous and reliable
way to help people have a language to

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describe themselves. And I know at
the time we just thought, well that

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was a myth, that was a
missed opportunity to help people understand who they

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are at their best. So yes, I feel I don't really know what

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I would do otherwise. I feel
blessed to be able to. I mean

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I feel somewhat frustratedly blessed because we
still actually don't put much rigor around helping

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people to identify what they love and
how they can apply it, which is

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another way of thinking about strength.
So there's a lot of work still to

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be done, but certainly the touch
thirty three or fourty whatever it is a

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million people, that's a blessing.
It's a start. Marcus. Yes,

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And like you, I stand and
make the world will work a better place

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and to be able to celebrate the
contribution that everyone makes in their one precious

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life, which is why I love
why you wrote your book. One of

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the things that you say is you
and your co author actually good all talk

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about this being it's for free thinking
leaders, and I appreciate how you describe

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those people, and there's there's a
lot to their definition, but I'll start

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with you say, a leader who
embraces a world in which the weird uniqueness

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of each individual is seen not as
a flaw to be ground down, but

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it's a mess worth engaging with.
The raw material for all healthy, ethical

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driving organizations. Ah, that is
just yummy, Marcus. Can you say

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more about who why you wrote the
book and for who? Yes, I

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have a brother and a sister.
And my elder brother was a beautiful pianist

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and composer. My younger sister was
a professional ballet dancer for many, many

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years for the Royal Ballet Company.
And I'm in the middle, and I

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am roughly the same age obviously as
both of them. I'm in the same

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race, was brought up in the
same household. But I don't have a

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musical bone in my body, and
I wish I did, Like I love

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what they can do, and I
would love how they can do it,

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but I couldn't beat them. And
it became really apparent early to me that

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I was different from my brother and
sister. And so quite early on you

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start going as a kid, you
start going, I wonder what that is?

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I wonder why I'm different than my
brother? Can I become my brother?

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Can I learn enough skills if I
just try hard, if I just

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put in to you and as Ericson's
formulation the ten thousand hours, could I

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become? And how much of me
is enduring and resistance to change? And

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how much of me is is changeable? Are those became for me, very

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very early on, very interesting questions
because I felt so immediately different and so

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much ashamed actually that I wasn't as
good as my brother and my sister.

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It's something that they clearly felt as
easy as breathing. And so what happens

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then is you start as a person, You start going, well, somebody's

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going to help me figure this out, right, And then of course you

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go to school and they don't help
you figure it out. They help you

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learn the right things to pass the
tests that are required. And then you

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go to school and people and so
then you go to university and again it's

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really more about acquiring certain sets of
knowledge so that you can pass an exam.

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And then you go to work,
and it's sort of the same thing.

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You are not. The uniquest of
you is at best irrelevance, and

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it worth an annoyance that gets in
the way of us getting the outcomes or

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getting the performance from you that we
want. So it's the weirdest thing.

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If I was sick, you start
You're like, I'm unique. That's interesting.

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I wonder if someone can help me
turn that uniqueness into contribution. And

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then you wake up at thirty five
and you're like, Wow, I haven't

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really advanced on a deep, rigorous, intelligent description of who I am and

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what I can contribute. And so
when Ashley and I sat down to write

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this book, it was like And
the reason I fought with Astley, by

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the way, is of course he's
running people for this huge organization called Cisco.

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I'm a researcher by training and by
profession by orientation. Ashley is a

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big time practitioner. And the whole
premise here is that the power of human

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nature is that each humans nature is
different. Well, if you're going to

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if you're going to actually turn that
from a sentence into action, then you've

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got to do it in the real
world. And so primary with actually to

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go, let's actually describe what an
organization would look like if we use the

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uniqueness of a person as the fundamental
moral and practical starting point. We don't

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at school, we don't at university, and we don't at work. So

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what would it look like if we
did. And the point of saying freethinking

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leader is forget the dogma, forget
the theories, look at the real world.

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In the real world, people are
unique and distinctive, and that's not

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a function of race or religion,
or gender or nationality, because there are

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way more differences within gender then there
are between genders. There's way more differences

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within racism between races. So where's
all that conversation, where's all those descriptions

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of how we make best use of
us as individuals? Where's that? Well,

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you look in the real world,
you see these differences. And so

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the point of writing the book was
to go, if we really want to

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build organizations, and clearly nine lizes
about work is focused on work. It's

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not focused on school. But if
we really wanted to build organizations that get

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the most better people, we would
look at the real world and we wouldn't

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look at theories and abstractions and concepts. Would look at Oh my gosh,

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I've got these ten nurses on my
team. But they're not ten nurses.

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There's ten individuals who happen to be
nurvous. There's uniqueness in them in terms

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of how they think and how they
build relationships and how they organize their time.

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There's uniqueness in them. We could
either pretend that that's not real and

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hope that they were all homogeneous,
or we can do with the fact that

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we've got eight unique or ten unique
individuals who have to be nursous. So

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the book was written to go,
this is silly. We've got only about

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sixteen percent of people fully engaged at
work. Why oh, we can see

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why because we've built work jobs organizations
as they're the humans in it. Odd

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human and the wonder work is so
disengaging. We've built it wrong. M

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Marcus, and we're going to dive
into that. That was just beautifully rendered.

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Let's grab our first break. I'm
your host, Alice Cortez. We've

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been on the air with Marcus Buckingham, a global researcher and thought leader focused

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on unlocking strengths, increasing performance,
and pioneering the future of how people work.

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He's the founder of the Marcus Buckingham
Company and the co founder and the

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co author Excuse Me of Nine Lives
About Work, a freethinking leader's guide to

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the real World, which we've been
discussing in today's program. He currently heads

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all People and Performance Research at the
ADP Research Institute. He joined today from

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Los Angeles, California. We've been
talking a bit about where this book came

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from. After the break, We're
going to get into the lies it covers.

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Stay with us, We'll be right
back. Doctor Release Cortez is a

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management consultant specializing in meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she

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helps companies visioneer for greater purpose among
stakeholders and develop purpose inspired leadership and meaning

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infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and commitment within the workforce. To

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learn more or to invite a lease
to speak to your organization, please visit

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00:16:25.360 --> 00:16:29.559
her at Eleise Cortez dot com.
Let's talk about how to get your employees

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working on purpose. This is working
on Purpose with doctor Release Cortez. To

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reach our program today or open a
conversation with Elise, send an email to

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00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:52.639
Elise Alis at Elise Cortez dot com. Now back to working on purpose.

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Thanks for staying with us, and
welcome back to working on purpose if you're

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just joining us. My guest is
Marcus Buckingham, a global researcher and thought

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leader focused on unlocking strengths, increasing
performance, and pioneering the future of how

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people work. He's the founder of
the Marcus Buckingham Company and the author of

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First, Break All the Rules and
Now Discover Your strengths and now nine lives

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about your work. It currently hads
all people and performance research at the ADP

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Research Institute. I'm your host,
Alice Cortez, So, Marcus, before

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we get into a couple of the
lives for this segment, I think it's

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important that we discussed just really why
we have these nine lives in the first

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place. And as you could probably
tell from the questions I sent to you,

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I did read your book Carver to
Cover, as I do all of

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my author guests, and I'm very
interested and this makes so much sense to

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me that you say in the book
that it helps us to realize that the

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nine lives even exist and have taken
hold because it satisfies the organization's need for

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control. These are large, complex
places, and it's understandable that they need

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to be able to direct their leaders
for simplicity in order, but I think

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that's an important concept for us to
understand. Can you say more about this

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need for control and how it's produced
these nine lies? Yeah, Well,

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if you think about what an organization
needs to do, that it's trying to

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create certain outcomes in an organized way, and we've used as our model for

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organizations some version of the Roman legions
and then up through the Catholic Church.

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And then on top of that,
we overlaid a manufacturing process principle that was

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probably first refined by Henry Ford back
in nineteen twelve nineteen thirteen as the assembly

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line. And that's really the way
that we've organized our work. And it

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was pretty efficient, I mean,
the assembly I was pretty efficient. And

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then over the last sort of hundred
years, we've taken that assembly line approach

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organized through hierarchical structures alla Roman Legions
and Catholic Church. And that's the way

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that we've built work. And when
you build work that way, there are

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certain outcomes that you could predictably create, which is why I guess they've came

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up with a simil line in the
first place. And then over the last

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hundred years we simply refined and refined
and refined and squeeze the efficiencies as much

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efficiencies as we could out of the
assembly line. So total quality management,

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business process, re engineering, six
sigma lean thinking, lean, manue,

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all these all these terms are simply
one after another to get more efficiency out

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of the manufacturing approach or the assembly
line approach. And we're done. I

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mean we're done with it. Now, we've got everything out of it we

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could possibly get out of it,
and it's time to retire it as a

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metaphor. Obviously, today the hospitals
under massive pressure, but even in normal

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times, you look at the way
that hospital is organized, and it's organized

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it looks very very much like an
assembly line. So it does a bank,

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so does professional services or consulting.
We've still got this idea that we

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want in order to create consistent outcomes, we need to have everyone in the

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same role doing the role in exactly
the same way. In manufacturing, we

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can see if you standardized prop processes. In the world of the white collar

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world, I suppose you can see
it in terms of long lists of competencies,

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three sixty surveys to measure you against
those competencies just everywhere you look.

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We seem to believe that the human
uniqueness is inefficient and we must break it

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down, and that's what we've been
I mean, no one would say it

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that way, but that's if you
look at what most people do in the

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world of human resources. It's designed
to ensure compliance and consistency because that's sufficient

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and individuality is annoying, and that
was, it just gets in the way.

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And yet the reason for the freethinking
word again is to say, well,

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but unfortunately it's real, I will
not be my brother. Ever,

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so what are you going to do
about that? How do you build an

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organization so that you don't basically wish
everyone in the same job was doing it

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exactly the same way and try to
train everyone in the same job to do

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it in exactly the same way.
When you want consistency of outcomes or consistency

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of quality from as a customer experience, how do you get those consistency of

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outcomes without forcing everyone to do consistency
of steps. How do you do that?

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Because if you wanted to get it
and the consistency of outcome by following

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consistent steps, unfortunately that means you're
going to try and teach every single person

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there's an incumbent in h role to
follow exactly the same steps. And if

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you do that, you dehumanize your
organization. You create an organization. It's

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basically trying to eradicate what makes each
human beautiful and powerful. They make a

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unique gifts. Well, that's stupid. Sorry, that's stupid. It's also

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a moral yes, well it's not
good enough. I mean, that's if

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I get animated around and you know, it's like this, we get people

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like you and me. We've got
to be able to look at companies around

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the world and organizations and go you
can do better. You can do better.

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Yes, Marcus, I completely agree
with you, and that is a

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big reason I continue to host this
radio show weekly for the last five years,

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because we can do better and I'm
committed to make sure that we do

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do better. And as someone who
has individualization as her top five in her

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top five strengths, yes, we
can see the beauty of each and every

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person. So and to that end, the first one of the first lies

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I want to talk about, I
can't get to all nine of them on

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the show, so that's okay,
we'll just give a couple of sprinkles.

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But one that I want to start
with, Marcus, is the lie that

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people care which company they work for
and instead you write. What we as

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team members want from you, our
team leader, is firstly that you make

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us feel part of something bigger,
that you show us how we are doing

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together is important and meaningful. And
secondly, to your point earlier, that

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you make us feel that you can
see us and connect to us and care

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about us and challenge us in a
way that recognizes who we are as individuals.

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Yes, yes, and yes say
more. Well, yeah, the

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first thing about that lie people care
which company they work for. It's the

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first it's the first lie we encounter
because we've kind of made a god of

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culture where we say a company is
defined by its culture, and if you

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want to be a really good company, you better have a really good culture.

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And so that was that. We
thought, that's let's start with that

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one. Because the best companies who
work for issue Fortune magazine is the most

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issue of the entire year. We
all get animated around this idea of customer

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and yeah, if you was a
look at the real world and say,

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well, is that true? Does
Patagonia have some sort of unique culture that

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makes it similar to it for everyone
who works there and different from save of

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Gordman Sachs. Now on the surface, you'd go on, yeah, because

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the onboarding is different in Patagonia and
everyone was a suitor Gordman Sachs or on

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some level you'd go, yeah,
I guess probably there is a difference.

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But for that to be true that
there is a difference, then you'd have

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to find two things. You'd have
to be able to ask people who work

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for Patagonia and ask people who work
for Gorman Sachs a list of questions to

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define their experience, and you would
have to find firstly that everyone in Patagonia

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had a uniform experience of Patagonia.
You'd have to find that there was a

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similarity no matter what department you were
in, the experience of Patagonian nous was

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somehow felt by everyone working there.
And then you'd have to find that whatever

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that was was not there but Gordman
Sachs. That there was a uniform experience

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of Gordman Sachs, but it was
different than the uniform experience Patagonia. When

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you never find that, we've never
found that. Ever, when you go

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inside Patagonia and just start asking basic
questions about you know, what's expected of

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you, do you have confidence in
the future, do you believe in the

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purpose or the mission of the company, what you find is there's way more

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variation on that set of questions within
Patagonia than between Patagonia and another company.

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There's far more variation inside of company
than between companies. Now, CEOs don't

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want to say that because they're five
yet while I was buying the front line,

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and they've got a try to figure
out something to do to try to

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create a better set of outcomes to
the company. And one of the leavers

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they pull is a culture leaver,
because that's all they can think of to

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do. But when you actually look
at the real world, there's no such

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thing as a company culture. What
there is instead are lots and lots and

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lots of teams. Inside of a
company, there's lots and lots and lots

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of teams. And although you may
join Patagonia and therefore maybe in Patagonia's interest

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to have a talent brand that speaks
to how they value people and what they

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stand for. That is what we
call those are peacock feathers for for people,

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they're plumage company plumage, and they're
designed to attract you in like all

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plumages, that you join a company, but once you're there, how long

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you stay and how productive you are
depends massively on what team you're on,

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or team's plural rather, because when
you start looking at it, you find

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out that more than sixty five percent
of people working in America work for more

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than one team. The teams plural. And then when you look at things

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like performance or things like voluntary turnover, you find that those things vary inside

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a company according to which team you're
on. When the person leaves something,

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the thing they're leaving is the team, the real specific people they bump into

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every day and have to work with. Well, gosh, what that means

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is not just that quote unquote team
work is important. It means that if

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we really wanted to build better work
experiences for people, we would be razor

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or laser focused on learning about what
do our best teams look like and how

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can we build more like them.
We would make team joining the most important

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part of onboarding. Well we don't. It's somedings. We don't do that

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at the moment. We can't even
see the teams, which means we can't

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see the work. That's so funny
right now, ELSA, no company knows

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where the work is. Google like
great company like Google has no idea how

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many teams it has, or who's
on them, or which are the best

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ones, has no idea. All
the eight dar systems we have are sort

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of the Catholic Church or the Roman
legions. Who reports to who boxes on

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an org chart? Because HR systems
are basically financial systems, but of course

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most of the work we do is
inside the boxes. It's in these dynamic

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and ephemeral teams. So it's one
of those weird things where we've missed the

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most important unit of analysis and companies. We've missed teams. And as you

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know, of course, the beautiful
thing about teams is they make weirdness useful.

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That's the point of a team.
Fifty thousand years ago and we've made

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the first team. It was because
different people had different qualities, and you

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were fast, and you were cunning, and you had a great sense of

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smell, and you were strong,
and we figured out if we kind of

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put us all together, we might
actually be able to do something together that

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we couldn't do alone. That's what
a team is for. A team is

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for maximizing uniqueness. And that's so
cool about what it is to be on

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00:28:33.200 --> 00:28:36.799
a great team. If someone yes, they make you feel part of something

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bigger than you, but they also
see you and expect you to step into

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the best of you so that you
can support the others. That's what a

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great team feels like. Well,
we've missed all, we've really missed all

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of that. Unfortunately, at least
in terms of the way that we try

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to build our organizations, we don't
see teams and instead we tried to exact

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control, and of course the best
teams aren't doing that at all. The

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best teams are well rounded, precisely
because each individual on them isn't That's the

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first lie. People don't care wage
company they work for the carriage team they're

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on. I could listen to you
all day, Marcus, and I'm so

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glad we got this interview to be
able to hear you over and over again,

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because I'm sure our listeners won't want
to replay this. And you do

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00:29:26.319 --> 00:29:29.400
a beautiful job in your book of
explicating just what you just said, so

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00:29:29.480 --> 00:29:33.640
we can always rely on that too. But now let's talk that about another

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00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:37.039
lie then, Marcus. So if
we've been talking about the importance of teams,

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let's talk about this one of the
other lives that you talk about in

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00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:42.240
the book, which is leadership is
a thing. And you say that a

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leader is someone who has followers,
plain and simple, and the only determinant

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00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:51.759
of whether anyone is leading is whether
anyone else is following. And this is

401
00:29:51.759 --> 00:29:56.039
the really fun part is you write
that we follow spiky leaders those who have

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00:29:56.119 --> 00:29:59.359
owned one or two distinctive abilities that
they used to make their mark on the

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00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:06.039
world. So we followed spikes.
MM, well, it's fine. Leadership

404
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:11.000
is a I mean, people love
the world leadership. And the idea I

405
00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:12.079
suppose is that if you want to
be a leader, you need to go

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00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:18.559
and acquire this thing called leadership.
And we define leadership by saying, well,

407
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:23.799
look, we've we've studied this big
group of leaders and we've identified all

408
00:30:23.799 --> 00:30:26.559
the different qualities they have in common, and we've created our model, our

409
00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:32.079
leadership model. And then if you
want in the model is a bunch of

410
00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:36.799
qualities or attributes or competencies you're supposed
to possess. And then if you want

411
00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:38.000
to be a better leader, then
we're going to teach you the competencies,

412
00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:41.279
and we might even measure you against
the competencias and pinpoint which ones you don't

413
00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:45.759
have so that you can acquire the
ones you don't have so you can have

414
00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:52.720
more leadership. That's simply put,
that's what the leadership, the eight billion

415
00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:56.759
dollar leadership business in the US is
built around. And again put your free

416
00:30:56.759 --> 00:30:59.880
thinking researcher how on for a second, and you'd have to go all first,

417
00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:03.200
or that's examine. When you put
these lists of I don't know fifty

418
00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:06.480
great leaders up against the wall,
do we find that they have anything in

419
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:10.480
common? And the answer to that
question is no. We find that they

420
00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:14.200
don't. Even the leaders in the
same company. We find that they have

421
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:18.000
really different approaches to the way in
which they lead, and of course that

422
00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:21.960
fits the build of our real world
experience. Anyway, there are very very

423
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:25.160
successful leaders out there that we've all
met, and they don't all look the

424
00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:29.119
same. In fact, they look
really different. So that then makes you

425
00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:32.200
go, well, gush, well, then if we can't and this isn't

426
00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:36.200
sort of I think that they're not
the same. It's like when you do

427
00:31:36.400 --> 00:31:41.640
rigorous and repeated psychometric studies to try
to measure what qualities do these leaders all

428
00:31:41.680 --> 00:31:45.960
have that make them similar to each
other and different from everyone else, we

429
00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:51.720
can't find them, Like the science
says, it's not there. So then

430
00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:52.839
you go, well, what makes
them a leader? And of course that's

431
00:31:52.839 --> 00:31:56.079
where you bump into oh, well, the only thing they do in common

432
00:31:56.160 --> 00:32:00.279
is they've got a bunch of people
following them, and so the first to

433
00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:04.680
make on a leadership of course,
this followership is a thing. Leadership isn't.

434
00:32:05.000 --> 00:32:07.680
Leaders are real in the real world, but they're only leaders because they've

435
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:13.640
managed to cultivate followership. What we
should be studying is followership, not leadership,

436
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:17.279
because leadership doesn't exist. We should
be studying followership because followership does.

437
00:32:19.160 --> 00:32:22.359
When we ask a bunch of people, are you willing to give your life

438
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:24.200
for this leader or are you willing
to give your time and your energy to

439
00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:29.440
her vision as the future. We
can ask questions like that people and when

440
00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:32.160
a whole bunch of people go yes, yes, yes, that's them just

441
00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:37.279
reporting on themselves saying what their experiences. Whole bunch of people go yes,

442
00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:43.240
I would follow her through the darkest
night. Then that's followership that exists.

443
00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:46.000
We can understand it. That's what
we should focus on learning about. And

444
00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:49.680
when you do that, when you
really focus on what gets people to follow

445
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:55.599
others, confidence is what leaders bring
us. The best ones the leader is

446
00:32:55.640 --> 00:32:59.799
saying, look, let's go around
the corner, and the follower is going,

447
00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:01.119
I don't even know what's around the
corner, and the leaders going,

448
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:05.359
look, don't worry follow me anyway. And the only reason why you get

449
00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:08.680
someone to actually follow you anyway is
because you're returning their anxiety into confidence.

450
00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:15.119
You're not diminishing their anxiety, you're
not demeaning it. You're saying, follow

451
00:33:15.160 --> 00:33:17.319
me around the corner, because it's
all going to be good. And so

452
00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:22.640
then you go, how do they
do that? How do they turn anxiety

453
00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:25.160
into confidence? And obviously all of
them do it differently, but one of

454
00:33:25.160 --> 00:33:30.160
the most powerful things you can see
in the research is that we follow someone

455
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:36.319
who clearly knows to the end degree
who she is and has taken a couple

456
00:33:36.359 --> 00:33:44.079
of skills or qualities that are relevant
to us and has maximized them. And

457
00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:45.880
when we see that in a leader, we don't expect the leader to have

458
00:33:46.000 --> 00:33:51.160
everything. But when we see a
leader that's taken herself really seriously in some

459
00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:53.920
area that's relevant to us, then
we follow her around the corner because we

460
00:33:53.960 --> 00:33:59.119
know who she is going to be
in any situation. We know that she's

461
00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:07.960
not vague or she's not sort of
frank and leader who's made up of a

462
00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:12.519
whole bunch of different weird traits that
she's trying to try on for size.

463
00:34:12.920 --> 00:34:15.480
We know who she is, and
therefore, in any situation that's around the

464
00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:16.920
corner. We know how she's going
to react and which she's going to focus

465
00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:22.320
on, how she's going to move. When we get that kind of clarity,

466
00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:25.239
we get confident. And so all
of this stuff that we've taught leaders

467
00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:29.440
to hear are the seventeen qualities of
a leader. Trying to quib them all.

468
00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:34.920
Now, now that's a myth.
Do you want people to follow you,

469
00:34:34.920 --> 00:34:39.519
You've got to know really deeply who
you are. Turn that into spikes

470
00:34:39.559 --> 00:34:45.159
that people can hook onto, because
that will make them more confident. We

471
00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:47.400
don't expect you to be perfect.
In fact, as we say in the

472
00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:52.719
book Leadership or Followership, Brother,
it's first of all an act of forgiveness.

473
00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:57.800
We forgive you so many things you
don't have if you've got one or

474
00:34:57.840 --> 00:35:01.320
two powerful ones that could help us
move into the future. Marcus, that

475
00:35:01.480 --> 00:35:06.039
is so fresh and delightful. And
on that note, let's grab our last

476
00:35:06.039 --> 00:35:08.360
break. I'm Elise Cortez, your
host. We are here with Marcus Buckingham,

477
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:13.559
a global researcher and thought leader focused
on unlocking strengths, increasing performance,

478
00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:15.480
and pioneer in the future of how
people work. He's the founder of the

479
00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:20.760
Marcus Buckingham Company and the co founder
of nine Lives About Work, a freethinking

480
00:35:20.840 --> 00:35:23.360
leader's guide to the real world,
which we've been discussing in today's program.

481
00:35:23.360 --> 00:35:28.480
It currently heads all People in Performance
Research at the ADP Research Institute. He

482
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:30.880
joined today from Los Angeles, California. We'll talk more after the break.

483
00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:51.599
Stay with us. Doctor Release Cortez
is a management consultant specializing in meaning and

484
00:35:51.639 --> 00:35:57.239
purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies visioneer for greater purpose

485
00:35:57.280 --> 00:36:02.679
among stakeholders and developed purpose in spy. Leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate

486
00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:08.239
fulfillment, performance, and commitment within
the workforce. To learn more or to

487
00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:13.559
invite a lease to speak to your
organization, please visit her at Elise Cortez

488
00:36:13.639 --> 00:36:16.800
dot com. Let's talk about how
to get your employees working on purpose.

489
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:29.000
This is working on Purpose with doctor
Elise Cortez. To reach our program today

490
00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:35.000
or open a conversation with Elise,
send an email to Elise ali Se at

491
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:50.079
Elise Cortez dot com. Now back
to working on Purpose. Thanks for staying

492
00:36:50.119 --> 00:36:52.880
with us, and welcome back to
working on Purpose. If you're just tuning

493
00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:55.280
in, my guest is Marcus Buckingham, a global researcher and thought leader focused

494
00:36:55.320 --> 00:37:00.360
on unlocking strengths, increasing performance,
and pioneering the future of how people work.

495
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:02.840
He's the founder of the Marcus Buckingham
Company and the author at First,

496
00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:07.199
Break All the Rules and Now Discover
Your Strengths and also Nine Lies About Work.

497
00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:10.920
It currently heads all people in performance
research at the ADP Research Institute.

498
00:37:12.119 --> 00:37:15.880
I'm your host, Alice Cortez.
So for this last segment, Marcus,

499
00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:19.719
I wanted to cover two lies,
or it's going to call them FIBs.

500
00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:22.280
Lies is a better word that you
have in the book. If we have

501
00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:23.960
time. The first one is the
one that I have to tell you,

502
00:37:24.039 --> 00:37:30.480
Marcus completely probably altered my being and
the way that I look at how we

503
00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:36.480
measure and receive usable information. And
that's the idea that people can reliably rate

504
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:38.519
other people. Oh my gosh,
Marcus, the way that you talk about

505
00:37:38.599 --> 00:37:43.920
that in the book is so insightful
and opens a huge door for people,

506
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:50.760
including myself. So the idea first
that the way people actually rate each other

507
00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:52.360
is kind of disgusting when you read
it in your book. So would you

508
00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:57.360
say a little bit about how do
we tend to read each other inside organizations?

509
00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:00.360
First, we'll talk about that.
Well, there's a lot of rating

510
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:04.519
happening in our organizations, right.
You've got performance rating at the end of

511
00:38:04.519 --> 00:38:07.400
the year. You've got potential ratings. If you're going to create a nine

512
00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:13.199
box screed, it's performance and potential. You've got more complex ratings where perhaps

513
00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:16.199
somebody that you report too is rating
you ails has required competencies or behaviors.

514
00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:21.800
And then of course it extends into
even more complicated than that. You've got

515
00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:25.719
three sixty surveys where not only your
boss, but your peers and your direct

516
00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:30.800
reports and so forth to rating you
on a list of qualities that you're supposed

517
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:36.840
to have. So ratings are really
prevalent in our world. And how you

518
00:38:36.920 --> 00:38:40.079
get paid, and if you're fired, and if you're promoted, and if

519
00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:45.400
you're moved to a different department,
all of those things are mediated through these

520
00:38:45.480 --> 00:38:49.440
ratings. In fact, if these
work in the federal government, you can't

521
00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:54.519
get promoted at various levels up unless
you can show that your ratings reveal that

522
00:38:54.559 --> 00:39:00.920
you have all the required competencies you're
supposed to have. Ratings are everywhere,

523
00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:05.440
and they're going to be there'll be
more of them. I mean raised Valio

524
00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:07.960
at Bridgewater Associates has created an environment
there where you've got an app and you

525
00:39:08.000 --> 00:39:13.280
walk around with the app, and
any interaction you have with anyone someone rates

526
00:39:13.320 --> 00:39:15.599
you on the experience that they had
in the meeting or bumping past you in

527
00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:21.400
the whole way, or and these
ratings are kept forever on you in what's

528
00:39:21.440 --> 00:39:28.679
called the Transparency Library and Bridgewater Associate
Existence and anomaly software companies coming out of

529
00:39:28.719 --> 00:39:34.159
Silicon Valley have been really heavily invested
in that do constant ratings of you all

530
00:39:34.199 --> 00:39:37.639
the time, and so we're not
going to get less of these ratings.

531
00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:40.280
We're gonna get more, and your
entire future, your entire life, will

532
00:39:40.400 --> 00:39:44.599
be the introduced ratings. So on
one of them, this is a bit

533
00:39:44.639 --> 00:39:47.960
of an inside baseball line line number
six, But on another level, it's

534
00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:52.800
just super practical because your entire experience
of work is the improvise ratings. And

535
00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:55.199
the bottom line on this, at
least as you saw from me in the

536
00:39:55.239 --> 00:39:59.639
book, is we've got forty years
of data on this, and it's really

537
00:39:59.679 --> 00:40:04.960
clear humans are horribly unreliable rates are
other humans. The only thing that we're

538
00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:09.840
reliable rate rates of is our own
experiences. We can We can rate our

539
00:40:09.880 --> 00:40:15.360
feelings. We can rate whether we
feel confused, we can rate whether we

540
00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:19.800
feel frightened. We can rate and
of course the best example of this is

541
00:40:20.039 --> 00:40:22.920
we can rate our own pain.
And so when the doctor has given you

542
00:40:22.920 --> 00:40:27.039
an operation, it comes in afterwards
and wants to see how you're doing.

543
00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:30.400
The doctor when they say, on
a scale of one to term to turn

544
00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:35.239
high, rate your pain. When
you say three, she doesn't say that's

545
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:38.440
not three. I'm a doctor,
I actually know what your pain is.

546
00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:43.079
Your pain is a five. Besides, we run out of threes, and

547
00:40:43.159 --> 00:40:47.559
so you know, so we know
where there's real science involved. We know

548
00:40:47.679 --> 00:40:52.840
that reliable data is really important,
and we know that all of these performance

549
00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:57.159
data, potential data, ratings data, none of it is reliable. In

550
00:40:57.280 --> 00:41:01.559
fact, what's really worrying about it
is we actually know what causes the variance

551
00:41:01.639 --> 00:41:07.159
in ratings that you might be getting
from your manager, or causes the variance

552
00:41:07.840 --> 00:41:12.719
isn't anything to do with you.
What causes the variance is a manager.

553
00:41:13.559 --> 00:41:19.360
The manager has what's called an idiosyncratic
pattern of racings and she or he doesn't

554
00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:21.559
know it. It's not and it's
not a function of your gender or race,

555
00:41:21.599 --> 00:41:25.000
it's not a function of unconscious bias
towards your gender or ethnicity. It's

556
00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:30.360
almost like they can't even see you
at all. They have a natural pattern

557
00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:32.480
of ratings. They might use the
entire scale, they might scw right,

558
00:41:32.519 --> 00:41:38.079
they might scw left, they might
just use the middle. They have this

559
00:41:38.159 --> 00:41:43.559
idiosyncratic pattern of ratings. And all
the research on this shows that somewhere between

560
00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:47.000
sixty five and seventy five percent of
the variance in all of the ratings on

561
00:41:47.079 --> 00:41:51.800
you are a function of the person
doing the rating. They're not a function

562
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:54.480
of you, which is weird because
we pay you or promote your train.

563
00:41:54.559 --> 00:41:59.559
You as though your ratings given to
you by other people reflect you, but

564
00:41:59.599 --> 00:42:02.519
they don't. They reflect the other
people. And of course one of the

565
00:42:04.039 --> 00:42:07.559
addition to that is people say,
what it doesn't matter if one person's idiosyncratic

566
00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:09.559
will add five more sources as well, do a three sixty, and then

567
00:42:09.599 --> 00:42:14.159
we add all the ratings up,
and then the overall average is probably you.

568
00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:16.519
Well, for all of us who
remember this time in math class,

569
00:42:16.599 --> 00:42:22.480
if you've got systematic error, as
in, for example, if your thermometer

570
00:42:22.639 --> 00:42:25.400
is broken, then it doesn't matter
how many rating or how many measurements of

571
00:42:25.719 --> 00:42:31.360
temperature your thermometer takes the thermometer is
broken, so more data just makes more

572
00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:37.880
error, not less. And in
this case our rating thermometer is broken.

573
00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:43.880
We have systematic error in all of
our ratings. Okay, that's a huge

574
00:42:43.960 --> 00:42:50.039
problem. Yes, it is.
These will never see you. That's what

575
00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:52.440
that's got that chapters all about.
I know, Marcus, and I'm telling

576
00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:55.639
you it is so mind blowing how
useful that is. And yet there's just

577
00:42:55.719 --> 00:42:59.440
one quick quote that I want to
say to add to that that described me.

578
00:42:59.559 --> 00:43:04.239
You say, the idiosyncrasy of the
rating pattern stems from the uniqueness of

579
00:43:04.280 --> 00:43:07.760
the reader that doesn't appear to have
much of anything to do with a person

580
00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:10.639
being rated. In fact, it's
pretty much as though the person isn't there

581
00:43:10.719 --> 00:43:14.599
at all. Oh my gosh.
If that's not a problem, I don't

582
00:43:14.599 --> 00:43:17.440
know what is. Yeah. It's
like we think that these rating tools that

583
00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:22.239
we have our windows that allow us
to see a person, and the more

584
00:43:22.280 --> 00:43:27.000
specific and behavioral the questions in the
rating system. Supposedly it's to clear a

585
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:30.239
window, but what we know from
data is that it's not a window,

586
00:43:30.280 --> 00:43:34.599
it's a mirror. These rating systems, all of them they're just me bouncing

587
00:43:34.639 --> 00:43:38.360
me back at me, and you
can't train it out of people. And

588
00:43:38.480 --> 00:43:43.119
this has huge implications for schools,
obviously because there's a ton of rating that

589
00:43:43.159 --> 00:43:46.000
goes on in schools, but it
has massive implication for the world of work.

590
00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:52.039
We all ought to be more data
fluent, and a lot of this

591
00:43:52.159 --> 00:43:55.719
stuff that we're fed at work around
our ratings and who we are because of

592
00:43:55.760 --> 00:43:59.719
the ratings, and what we should
do with us because of the ratings.

593
00:44:00.599 --> 00:44:05.960
We need to pop this balloon before
we before this thing gets out of hand.

594
00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:10.079
We are not reliable rats of other
people, and we never will be.

595
00:44:12.480 --> 00:44:17.199
I cannot hold a concept like strategic
thinking in my head and reach into

596
00:44:17.239 --> 00:44:21.559
your head and rate you on it, and then turn to the person next

597
00:44:21.559 --> 00:44:24.480
to you, hold the constant concept
in my head of strategic thinking and rate

598
00:44:24.559 --> 00:44:29.559
them on the same concept by reaching
into their head. I can't do that.

599
00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:34.440
So that means all of my ratings
on you are rubbish. They're just

600
00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:40.119
noise. And you know, we
need to actually look at that as a

601
00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:45.960
reality, which it is. Be
prethinking about it. They'll pretend it's not

602
00:44:45.159 --> 00:44:50.320
true because actually it is true that
we're unreliable rates and then we're going to

603
00:44:50.360 --> 00:44:52.880
have to deal with that truth,
which is there's ways to do it.

604
00:44:53.320 --> 00:44:55.480
You know what, are we reliable? Rats? Are? Well? We

605
00:44:55.480 --> 00:44:59.360
are relab rators of own experience.
I can tell you my pain, I

606
00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:00.679
can tell you if I plan to
vote to this person or that person.

607
00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:04.960
I can tell you if I'm confused, I can tell you if I am

608
00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:07.639
passionate about our vision emission. I
can tell all those because that's just all

609
00:45:07.639 --> 00:45:13.480
me describing me, which is not
not interesting. It's really interesting, and

610
00:45:13.519 --> 00:45:16.639
that's really good data. The bottom
line, I think on this eleasis that

611
00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:22.719
we've just become, we've overreached,
we've stepped over the measurement bridge, and

612
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:28.719
we're hurting people. And the good
news Marcus, that I really appreciate about

613
00:45:28.719 --> 00:45:31.760
your book is you come in and
you show us how to write meaningful questions

614
00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:36.920
that will produce what we're looking for. And that is gold. So listeners,

615
00:45:36.920 --> 00:45:38.159
if you're hearing this going, oh
my gosh, what do I do,

616
00:45:38.960 --> 00:45:43.920
he does explain beautifully in the book
how to write questions that will produce

617
00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:47.239
reliable, variable, and valid information. So just know that that's there.

618
00:45:49.079 --> 00:45:51.519
Marcus. We're almost at a time
and I want to make sure we hit

619
00:45:51.599 --> 00:45:53.480
one more of your lives that it's
so important in a great way to finish

620
00:45:53.559 --> 00:45:58.400
the show. And that is line
number eight. Work life balance matters most.

621
00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:01.719
And you distinguish in the book that
it's not balanced between work and life.

622
00:46:01.719 --> 00:46:06.960
That is unheedful idea, but that
we have the categories wrong. You

623
00:46:07.039 --> 00:46:08.960
say, what we all wrestle with
every day in the real world is not

624
00:46:09.079 --> 00:46:15.519
so much work and life as it
is love and loathe. Say more about

625
00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:17.760
that. Yeah, well, this
is a we could have written a whole

626
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:23.400
book on that. I mean,
it's nobody takes anyone's loves seriously, and

627
00:46:23.480 --> 00:46:25.360
yet each one of us. So
I go back to my brother and my

628
00:46:25.400 --> 00:46:31.599
sister, they just they there was
emotional valence in different actions and activities and

629
00:46:31.639 --> 00:46:37.239
contexts and situations. For my brother, there was different from me. He

630
00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:39.880
was drawn to certain things more than
I was. He got a kick out

631
00:46:39.880 --> 00:46:44.800
of different things than I did.
He got joy from different things than I

632
00:46:44.840 --> 00:46:47.679
did. At a really granular level, if you look at the actual activities

633
00:46:47.719 --> 00:46:52.639
that he found love in, those
were really different to him, really early

634
00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:55.599
on, from which came appetite,
from which came practice, from which came

635
00:46:55.599 --> 00:47:00.440
all sorts of things. But the
beginning was the weird, uniquest of one's

636
00:47:00.599 --> 00:47:05.599
pattern of loves. Your first question
of me was what's your career love story.

637
00:47:06.159 --> 00:47:08.559
That's a really cool way to say
it. Actually, at the very

638
00:47:08.559 --> 00:47:14.360
beginning of life, we unfortunately don't
take these loves seriously. And yet all

639
00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:16.480
of us, deep down we know
there are certain activities that draw us in

640
00:47:16.599 --> 00:47:20.880
and where time flies by when we're
doing them. We know that there in

641
00:47:20.920 --> 00:47:24.079
a sense that there aren't five love
languages. To quote that Chapman book,

642
00:47:24.159 --> 00:47:30.079
there's nine million. There are nine
million love languages, and the only person

643
00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:32.400
that speaks yours is you. And
So, what you want in life,

644
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:36.599
whether it's at work, whether it's
you as a father or mother, whether

645
00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:39.239
it's you as a friend or you
in your community, you want to have

646
00:47:39.320 --> 00:47:46.000
as many activities, situations, contexts
that are love felt. You want.

647
00:47:46.440 --> 00:47:50.840
I don't just mean like with people
you love. I mean the activity itself

648
00:47:50.880 --> 00:47:53.039
contains with it a little jolt of
something that's good for you, that lifts

649
00:47:53.039 --> 00:48:00.559
you up. That's what you want. You want an intentional imbalance between love

650
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:02.800
and load. You want more loves
than loads in all aspects of your life.

651
00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:07.519
Now, that's not easy because it
begins with you going you actually know

652
00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:12.480
yourself well enough to know what kind
of activities you love at at the one

653
00:48:12.559 --> 00:48:15.519
foot level of detail. Can you
can you even think about that? As

654
00:48:15.559 --> 00:48:17.719
you as a parent, you know
which bits of parenting you lean into and

655
00:48:17.719 --> 00:48:21.440
they'll feel shame about the others.
What are the ones that really lift you

656
00:48:21.559 --> 00:48:25.800
up? It starts there. It
starts by honoring the fact that your feelings

657
00:48:25.840 --> 00:48:30.400
about the activities you do in the
week or the day, that your emotional

658
00:48:30.440 --> 00:48:34.519
reaction to them is different than someone
else's, and we've got to help you

659
00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:37.440
figure that out and take responsibility for
that, not to be self indulgent,

660
00:48:37.480 --> 00:48:43.480
but so that you can contribute more
so you can be more resilient. The

661
00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:45.920
Mayo Clinic found that if nurses and
doctors had only twenty percent, they just

662
00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:51.519
had twenty percent of their job doing
activities that they love, their levels of

663
00:48:51.559 --> 00:48:55.760
PTSD, the levels of burnout significantly
fell. But it's funny, over twenty

664
00:48:55.760 --> 00:49:00.280
percent, if you get thirty percent, thirty five percent, there wasn't actually

665
00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:04.199
that much of an of a benefit
that came from that. It's almost like

666
00:49:04.239 --> 00:49:07.679
you don't need fifty percent of your
life to be filled. It's almost like

667
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:10.880
a little love goes quite a long
way, these facts that they found in

668
00:49:10.880 --> 00:49:15.960
the research. And so for us, telling someone to balance work in life

669
00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:20.159
is a setting you up for failure. No one's that are going to achieve

670
00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:22.519
it, and if you did,
someone would be saying to the people around

671
00:49:22.559 --> 00:49:27.360
you, don't move, I got
it, don't move. So balance is

672
00:49:27.519 --> 00:49:31.480
stasis. What we want is in
balance toward those things that we love.

673
00:49:32.039 --> 00:49:37.639
Why because it means that we can
contribute more and continue to do it because

674
00:49:37.639 --> 00:49:42.320
the activities themselves contain their own source
of fuel. Marcus, that is a

675
00:49:42.320 --> 00:49:45.119
beautiful way to finish. And we
are smack at a time. So let

676
00:49:45.119 --> 00:49:47.320
me say thank you from the bottom
of my heart and my soul for joining

677
00:49:47.360 --> 00:49:51.400
us today. Thank you for giving
us your gift, my pleasure. Thank

678
00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:53.599
you for having me. You're welcome
listeners if you want to learn more about

679
00:49:53.599 --> 00:49:57.599
Marcus, his books, or his
work, or start by visiting his website

680
00:49:57.599 --> 00:50:01.159
which is just simply Marcus Buckingham dot
com. Last week, if if you

681
00:50:01.159 --> 00:50:04.840
missed a live show, you can
catch be a recorded podcast. We were

682
00:50:04.840 --> 00:50:07.360
on the other Cherylyn talking about how
she made her life stream come true and

683
00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:10.880
founding the Joyle Studios. Where she
and her team help inspire all on the

684
00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:15.519
joyful evolution of thought to vision,
vision to dream, dream to goal,

685
00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:19.360
and goal to reality. Next week
will be on the Earth Dartornia Sanguan,

686
00:50:19.599 --> 00:50:23.159
an internal medicine physician and founder of
Intuitive Intelligence and author of talk RX.

687
00:50:23.280 --> 00:50:27.920
We're talking about how to understand where
our emotions are generated and now we can

688
00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:30.239
understand and access them for optimal health. See you're there. Remember that work

689
00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:32.719
is at least a third of our
lives, So let's work on purpose.

690
00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:42.800
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to tune into Working on

691
00:50:42.840 --> 00:50:46.800
Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise
Cortez, each week on the Voice America

692
00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:53.719
Empowerment Channel. Together, we'll create
a world where business operates conscientiously, leadership

693
00:50:53.800 --> 00:51:00.400
inspires impassioned performance, and employees are
fulfilled in work that provides them meaning and

694
00:51:00.440 --> 00:51:04.800
purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work on purpose.