Feedback that Empowers and Facilitates Engagement

WEBVTT

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There are some people that make their
work just another thing they have to do,

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and there are those that make their
work something that they want to do.

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Welcome to Working on Purpose with your
host Elise Cortes. In our program,

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we provide guidance and inspiration from those
people who have found deeper meaning and

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personal connection to their work life.
It's beyond nine to five. It's working

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on purpose. Now here is your
host Elise Cortes. Welcome back to the

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Working on Purpose. So thanks for
tuning in again this week. I'm your

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host Elise Cortes. Journey from Dallas, Texas, which is home base for

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me. This program is all about
helping people more meaningfully and productively connect with

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their work and equipping organizations to do
the same for their employees. So I

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bring on guests from a particular perspective
or an experience that I think expands the

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conversation. I often draw on the
meeting and work research I been doing over

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the last fifteen years, as well
as from my own consulting experience include in

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the work I do today Insignium,
which is a global management consulting firm.

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I will get to my program in
jess to moment. Let me think my

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media partner and sponsored jobbing dot Com. Jobbing dot com is the leading locally

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focused job board in the nation,
and they are dedicated to helping employers find

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quality talent in their own backyard and
giving job secers control of their search that

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they can find work close to home. Last week, if you miss the

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show live, you can always catch
if you record a podcast. We were

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on the air with Diane maclay,
who is a certified professional whole person coach

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who helps midlife professionals navigate career transitions
through choice encouraged to make meaningful change.

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We talked about the Unleash Sure Dream
Career online interview series she's currently hosting,

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featuring twenty plus renowned experts who help
midlife career professionals create and sustain more meaning

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and purpose in the second half of
their life. Great conversation with her.

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She's incredibly energetic and knows her stuff. It was a great conversation with us.

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This week is David Perks, the
founder and CEO of pay Compliment,

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a platform for customers, peers,
and managers to give direct feedback to the

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people and organizations they interact with so
that customer service level and employee performance are

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maintained at the highest possible levels in
real time. All the time. We'll

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be talking about how feedback service both
the employee and the organization, and how

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leaders can incorporate it to motivate their
teams to hire engagement and performance. David

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joins it today from Sydney, Australia, where the time is fifteen hours ahead

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of Dallas, which means it's four
o'clock in the afternoon for me here in

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Dallas, and I think it's seven
or eight am on Wednesday for him.

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David, welcome to Working on Purpose. Thanks Alysa. It's a pleasure to

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be here and it's a beautiful morning
here in Sydney to have this conversation with

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you. Thank you. And I
guess it's Thursday, not Wednesday for you,

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right, that's right, same on
Thursday. All right, way to

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start the day. Well, let's
get into it. I want to give

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the listeners as much as we can, and I do want to say that

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again, I found you, I
think I found you on Twitter and looked

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up what you were up to,
and I said, you know, I

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think that makes for a good conversation
for the radio program. So I was

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like to give a shout out to
my social media friends out there. You

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are Otherwise you and I would have
no reason to talk, David, So

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great to know you. Great to
know you to at least, and the

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Internet's a fabulous way of making connections. So we're going to talk more about

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that today. I think that sounds
good. Well, I want to jump

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right into the conversation and open with
what you told me about a past practice

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of yours that I think is pretty
important to this conversation. You told me

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that you were spending eight plus hours
on flights from Australia, during which time

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you would write handwritten letters to clients
and other people you work with, telling

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them what you appreciated about them.
I like it if you could talk about

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this practice, where it came from, and how it led to you starting

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pay Compliment. Great way to start. And yeah, that really was the

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beginnings of the principles behind the pay
Compliment platform. And I think it goes

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all the way back to the values
that we were brought up with as kids,

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where my parents would always encourage us
to write thank you notes for gifts

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and experiences that we've been through as
and that kind of became necessary in this

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corporate environment where I had that big
corporate job. It was an American multinational

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company that I was working for in
Asia Pacific, and we were really about

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four or five percent of revenue for
that company. And so going through traditional

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performance management processes of grading people forced
distribution in a bell curve of the top

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five percent, the next ten,
etc. And then making our claim for

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any discretionary pay that we could,
we were really a small voice in that

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organization, and it caused me to
go down the path of looking more at

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intrinsic motivation than extrinsic motivation. And
that's where this practice became very important to

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the performance of my team and my
division. And so what I would do

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do is on regular trips from Australia
up to different parts of Asia, I

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would just use some of that time
on the plane to handwrite thank you notes

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and it would just be two individuals
in a large extended team who I've noticed

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had done something outstanding and rather make
a big song and dance and fanfare of

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that, I would give the individual
would just find a moment where we could

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be one on one. I give
the individual the written letter and just thank

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them for what they've done and that
was good and you know, I got

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a good feedback on that as I
was doing it. But what they then

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came to pass was that four or
five years after giving a person one of

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those letters, so gentleman called Ashok
Kumarok in Singapore, it was time for

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me to leave that organization. And
I received a lotly email from Ashop that

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told me that even after four years, he'd still got my letter and it

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was a treasure possession that he kept
in his desk and brought out from time

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to time to reread when he needed
you know, that extra jolt of motivation,

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and that really was powerful for me. It meant to me that that

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small act four years ago had had
a very long lasting effect on that individual,

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and it really then became, you
know, my purpose to look at

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how to scale that up and scale
that out and make that experience available to

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as many people as possible. So
that's how how the thought behind the platform

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started. And then luckily I work
my way into a position of having my

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own company and my own team,
and so I was able to experiment with

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that intrinsic motivation further with those staff
and to kind of systematize that into the

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practices that are embedded into the pay
complement platform. I appreciate very much that

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you distinguish that what you're really surfacing
or addressing is intrinsic motivation instead of extringing

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motivation. That's incredibly powerful and I
didn't really quite see that until you you

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talked about it, So thank you
for that. It is very powerful.

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And into that end, before you
talk more about the platform, because I

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do want to share and hear how
it actually works, I also want to

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go ahead and thread in your interest
in helping people enjoy more meaningful work,

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because of course that's a complete crossover
for both of us. Why are you

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interested in people find meaningful work?
Well, for the longest time, probably

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a slow learner in this regard,
I didn't even realize that some people didn't

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find meaning in work. I've always
been extremely fortunate that, you know,

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my work and my passion have been
aligned, and it took me a long

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time to realize that that wasn't the
case for everyone. And we spend a

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lot of our life at work,
and so that can either be the best

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thing ever, which is how it's
been for me and I'm lucky for that,

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or a soul destroying chore. And
I think for those people where you

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know, they fall into the latter
category, that there are more people in

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that boat than I would like,
and there's the potential to change that,

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and that's what we're to contribute to. And I think also because I've worked

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my entire career in the software industry, I think it's also an obligation to

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give back because it's the digitization and
computerization of work to a large extent that

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stripped the meaning out of it for
people by fragmenting the work that we do

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so that we often don't see the
end result of our actions. And so

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you know, somebody else is at
the point of sale, and twenty five

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people have worked in the value chain
to you know, provide the experience to

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the customer. But twenty five out
of the twenty six people involved in that

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don't get to see, you know, the customer delight or the customer disappointment

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at the end of their activity.
And so I think, you know,

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we need to make that much less
opaque for each per into how their actions

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make a difference. And so it's
kind of like the digital butterfly effect,

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where every action of every individual accumulates
into the experience of other human beings.

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But it's not necessarily seen, and
so a little story about that. Very

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early on in offering the platform,
we have a consumer platform element to the

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platform where people can give feedback to
retail hospitality workers as an example, and

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so an example of creating meaning,
just a normal person in a retail outlet,

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you know, we got the feedback
for her from an elderly gentleman.

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I think he said he was seventy
two or seventy eight, and he always

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sought this person out in the store
when he needed to recharge the same card

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on his phone, because that person
would not just stop what she was doing

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get the right sin card and the
right plan for him recharge it, but

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she would also go through and make
sure that the recharge had taken effect and

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that he got credit on his phone, and that that was the only means

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that he got to communicate with his
grandchildren. And so connecting those dots,

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I feel, really creates that meaning
for that retail worker that getting down from

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stocking the shelves and going to the
front of the store and getting the right

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product for the customer and then making
sure that that delivered the outcome that the

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customer was looking for, actually makes
a massive difference in that particular customer's life.

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And so what we're doing is crowdsourcing
stories like that and then connecting the

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dots for every worker that we can
so that they can see the meaning in

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the work and the contribution that they're
making to other people's lives. You see

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why this was just a must have
conversation for me, right David, you're

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just smack right down my alley.
A couple of things really quick, if

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I want to go back to the
loop back around on what you said.

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One is this whole notion how digitization
can remove some of the places in ways

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that people can see the overall force
for the trees of what their contribution is

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for the whole. I think that
is incredible that you can see that so

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crisply as you do, and that
you've got a mechanism to kind of bridge

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that gap without that. What I
do in my work oftentimes, of course,

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is I work with leaders to help
them language that for their teams,

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so they can help help the team
see that contribution when it's not immediately obvious

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for themselves. So the fact that
you've got a mechanism to help that along

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as well, that creates that ripple
effect I'm completely in favor of. And

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then the other thing I wanted to
also say is this whole notion of you

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know, how dismal work can be
for a lot of people. I think

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you and I talked about my research
around meaning and work and identity that produced

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fifteen modes of engagement, and when
I go and share that with crowds,

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David, people are amazed when they
identify which mode of engagement they're in.

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They're shocked that there's any other way
to work. They don't recognize that there's

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other ways people experience work, and
therefore they don't know that there's something can

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even be better or worse for them. So I whanted you just to acknowledge

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that as well. It's quite a
spectrum of experience out there in the world

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I've found. Yeah, I totally
agree, and I would have been one

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one of those people who would have
been in one mode of engagement and a

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positive one, blissfully ignorant of the
other fourteen. Very good. Yes,

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I meet those people. They're always
fascinating. Well, let's talk about the

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employee experience here for just a second, if we can. David, when

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we spoke on the first call,
to get acquainted. You said that people

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often don't get the signals that they're
doing good work or a great job.

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What do you mean by that?
Tell us more Yes, I think that

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there are really four types of signals
that each person needs in order to do

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their best work every day, and
we've kind of corralled that into for the

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framework that we call the four A
framework, and the four a's in terms

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of signals are alignment, assistance,
assessment, and appreciation. And so those

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are the four key ingredients to high
performance at an individual level, we feel,

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and if we take each one individually
and look at, you know,

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the traditional signals that people get and
a better possible feature for that, it

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kind of tells the story. So
if we look at alignment, typically what

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would happen in organizations is that goals
would be set at the organizational level and

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then cascaded through the organization and the
message that workers get in that kind of

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conversation is this is how you will
align. And so there's very little choice

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for the individual in in how that
happens and what they're aligning to in that

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cascaded paradigm. An alternative and a
way of creating stronger signals is to turn

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that around and to have the conversation
that goes along the lines of this is

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what we're doing, how can your
strength and purposes make the best contribution to

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that, and so really aligning the
individual to the goals as opposed to aligning

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the goals to the individual and turning
that context around. Similarly with assistance,

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what would typically happen in assistance is
I'd be looking at a competency framework for

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the job description, and the conversation
would be, Okay, this is where

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you don't measure up. These are
the gaps in your experience against this made

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up framework that you know HR have
conjured up and you're not hitting the mark.

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Instead of that, if I look
at your inherent strengths and the skills

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you want to master and orient the
assistance that I provide as a leader to

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that, then we're going to end
up in a much better place where your

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your strengths are elevated and you're a
unique individual as a resource to the company.

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As opposed to that, we've got
a set of people performing at a

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mediocre level across a pre defined set
of competencies, and so changing that assistance

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conversation to be strength based and individualized
is very important. Assessment conversations tend to

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be I'm looking back at the year
just gone, and this is where you

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failed, and so we're looking at
all of the reasons why someone is rated

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at a level that they're rated,
and it's generally a negative conversation. Instead

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of that, if we have the
assessment conversation that says, I'm looking forward

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at what challenges lie ahead, and
this is where I can see that we

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can stretch you, then that really
changes the emphasis or episodically in the moment.

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If we have the conversation when this
happened, I noticed that, and

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then can we brain some some other
ways to handle that if it comes up

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again. That way, we're perhaps
looking at something that could have been a

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negative conversation and turning it into a
positive framework for better future performance. An

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appreciation, I think is the one
that makes the biggest difference, but is

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often the least authentic, and so
I think leaders in general have become quite

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lazy in regards to appreciation, and
even when it's shown, it's generally a

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platitude. So I thank you.
A pat on the back is better than

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nothing, but it's not as powerful
as a structured piece of appreciation. When

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you did this, I felt like
that, or I learned something which was

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this, or I was able to
So what was that person's impact that I

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am great on me that I am
grateful for. How did I improve as

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a result of that person's act.
So those are the kind of signals that

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we're really looking to elevate in the
platform and to make sure that every worker

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gets the breadth of signals and the
frequency of signals that helps them to do

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their best work every day. I'm
completely a fan and I'll comment more,

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but let's kind of cut for a
quick break here. I'm your host,

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Alis Cortez. We've been on the
air with David Perks, who is the

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founder and CEO of pay Complement,
a platform for customers, peers and managers

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to get direct feedback to the people
and organizations they interact with, so the

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customer service levels and employee performance are
maintained at the highest possible levels in real

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time. He joins it today from
Sydney, Australia. We'll talk more after

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the break. Stay with us.
It's your world, Motivate, Change,

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00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:11.640
Succeed, Voice America, Empowerment dot
Com. Alis Cortes is a speaker and

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00:20:11.799 --> 00:20:17.720
engagement and development catalyst. She designs
and delivers professional development, leadership and engagement

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00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:22.599
workshops and can bring her expertise to
your organization. She will help ignite meaningful

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development within your workforce that will increase
employee engagement, performance and retention. To

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learn more or to invite Elise to
speak to your organization, please visit her

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00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:37.759
at www dot Elisecortes dot com.
She would welcome the opportunity to help get

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your employees working on purpose. It's
time to live the life of inner peace

235
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that you deserve. Tune in every
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You can discover the you that has
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show off your personal gifts to the
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health and spirituality to bring you the
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It's sure to be a nourishing experience.

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Do you sometimes feel powerless over your
own life? Does it seem like you're

242
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:21.680
living for someone else, unsure of
what your Purpose is or if you even

243
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have an important voice, it's time
to take back that control. Tune in

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to Empowered with Des and Jen.
They've been in the same place and have

245
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learned to regain control of their lives. They also feature amazing guests who share

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00:21:34.480 --> 00:21:40.480
experiences of how they have found success. Start on your journey by listening Mondays

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at one pm Pacific four pm Eastern
on Voice America Empowerment. Success starts here

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00:21:48.400 --> 00:22:03.240
Voice America Empowerment dot com. It's
your world. This is Working on Purpose

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00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:07.480
with Elise Cortes. To reach our
program today, please call in to one

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triple eight three four six nine one
four one. Again, that's one triple

251
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eight three four six nine one four
one. You may also send an email

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00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:22.839
to Eleise A. L Se at
Eliseportes dot com. Now back to Working

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00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:29.720
on Purpose. Thanks ristaying with us, and welcome back to Working on Purpose

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if you're just joining us. My
guest is David Perks, who is the

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founder and CEO of pay Compliment,
a platform for customers, peers, and

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managers to give direct feedback to the
people and organizations they interact with, so

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00:22:40.039 --> 00:22:44.519
the customer service levels and employee performance
are maintained. At the highest possible levels

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in real time all the time.
So before the break, David, we

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were talking. You're talking about your
four A levels, which was incredibly useful,

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and I really appreciate it if I
heard this right, that you bucket

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them on both more of the negative
plus the positive side. If I heard

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that right, also great, Okay, good. I also really appreciate how

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at each level you could see the
ongoing build and the depth there. That

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was incredibly useful, and I would
think that in order for the people that

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you work with to be able to
separate that and really start to see how

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feedback can be given in a very
structured way can be so useful. And

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to that end, I'm interested,
certainly because of the work that I do

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as a management consultant doing a lot
of leadership development. I know you're interested

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in helping leaders incorporate giving feedback and
expressing appreciation for their workforce in order to

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help motivate their employees but certainly give
them more meaning in their work. Can

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you see a little bit about that
perspective and the efforts that you've got going

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there. Yeah, So, what
we've noticed in general is that feedback the

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word is stigmatized and it's stigmatized and
creates anxiety largely because people associated with negative

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feedback. And so what we're doing
through our naming and through some of the

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techniques that we use as trying to
bring balance to that. And neuroscience indicates

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that the brain is six seven eight
times more effective at remembering harmful or negative

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events than it is at positive events. And so what we're trying to do

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is encourage leaders to build up a
bank of positivity by noticing and observing and

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commenting on positive aspects of people's work
in order that when the time comes that

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they need to course correct or adjust, that that is seen as an unusual

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event and that it doesn't trigger a
threat response in the employee's brain that puts

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them into defensive mode. And so
we work with neuroscientists and psychologists to really

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try to engender a reward response through
the way that we capture and deliver feedback

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to individuals, so that there is
the greatest chance that they'll remain open to

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the observation, that they will take
it on board, and that they'll take

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action to address the observation. And
that's important, we feel, because you

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know, a lot of research and
studies show that performance review and feedback for

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about thirty three thirty four percent of
the recipients is a negative event rather than

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a positive one. And you know, obviously that's not the intent. Something

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that you just said there that I
want to call out. That's quite fascinating

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around the neuroscience piece of this,
David, in that we we seem to

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remember more powerfully the negative comments and
we do the positive ones. And then

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you said something about a threat response, and so my mind immediately went to,

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this must be some thing really baked
into our very very angel brains about

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survival. Is that right? Yeah, absolutely so. We're designed to survive

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as a human being, and that's
baked into the way that our brains work.

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And very often, you know,
just the mention of feedback, if

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I was to say to you,
at least, let me give you some

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feedback in your brain. You know
I've taken control. I'm going to give

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you some feedback. You don't have
a choice. It's coming your way.

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Because of your prior experience, you'll
you'll associate that that conversation is probably going

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to be critical about you know,
your your performance and harmful to reputation.

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And it might not even be equitable
or fair because it's just my opinion,

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and so rigering through that all of
these reactions that most likely cause you to

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defend yourself. If I was to
say, at least, can we find

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a time where I can share some
observations with you that conversation, I'm giving

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you some choice. We're going to
share some conversation, some observations, and

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so it's a conversation. You're a
party too, it's not a broadcast.

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You're there to receive it's observations,
and so it's going to be based on

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some factor rather than some opinions that
I've gotten. So just the language changes

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the experience, and what we've tried
to do in the platform is to bake

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that language in and to bake good
behavior around feedback into the platform so that

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we're triggering those reward responses and you're
in a growth mind that rather than fearful

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and anxious about what's to come.
And of course I'm a fan of the

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growth mindset too, and I've had
other guests on the show talking about that

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as well, and it's related to
something you talked about earlier that I want

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to get a little bit more information
on too, David, you talked about

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that good leadership is strengths based and
encourages people to pursue what they're passionate about,

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what they like doing, And of
course, I as a Gallop certified

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Strengths coach, I completely agree with
that, but would like to hear a

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bit more about your perspective on that. Yeah, So, really what we're

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trying to do there is help people
to know their strengths, so using techniques

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similar to strength Finder and other frameworks
for that. But I think you know,

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we've got a blog post that's been
quite popular around autonomy and we use

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in the example of an autonomous vehicle
or self driving car, And if you

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think about that, you know,
the reason that cars can be autonomous is

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because they've got one clear destination that
they're that they're heading for. They've got

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signals coming in from all sorts of
sensors about adjustments that they need to make

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to cope with environment the environment that
they're operating in. They've got GPS signals

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that tell them they're on the right
path and speed signals that tell them they're

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moving at the right pace to get
to their destination. And so when we

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think about autonomous employees really organizations and
individuals are actually more comfortable with the idea

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of an autonomous vehicle than they are
an autonomous employee. And so we think

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that's you know, perhaps not right, and that employees can be autonomous in

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a very state way by having one
clear destination that's based upon, you know,

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what they're designed to do, what
their strengths are are geared towards,

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by having the signals that tell them
they're they're on the right path, and

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by having the signals that tell them
that they're the progress signals that tell them

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that they're moving at the right pace. And so, you know, I

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think it's much more these days about
individualizing jobs and designing you know, flexible

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jobs that are geared towards the individual
that's in the role, as opposed to

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trying to coerce an individual with unique
strengths into the shape that you know,

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the textbook says the role would be
best served by I. I am drinking

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up every single word that you're saying. And what I think, what I

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want to say is that one,
it makes so much sense what you're saying.

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And then too, it's so inspiring
to hear someone language just the same

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way that I do. And then
actually have a platform and a perspective to

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be able to help employers around the
world with this This is great or just

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organizations around the world with us,
it's just really refreshing to hear you talk,

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David. And the accent doesn't hurt
either, I suppose. And speaking

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of different organizations, do you have
any examples that you can share with us?

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Maybe one or two, and certainly
not without giving it the identity away

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if it doesn't help the person or
the organization of organizations that you've seen really

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incent high employee engagement or high performance
or better customer acquisition. Yeah, So

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we've been working with very closely with
founder customers because they've been the ones who've

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been giving positive signals to take the
platform in the direction it's gone. And

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I'm thinking of one in particular,
and they outreach to their employees with with

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five questions. And one of those
questions is quite confrontational when you when you

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take it at face value, it's
am I in the right role? Team

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and firm? And it's a yes
or no answer with with comments to justify

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that. And you'd actually think that, you know, people would be reticent

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to answer no to that question,
and I think it says a lot for

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this organization's culture that on any kind
of cycle of of the outreach, about

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five percent of their people will say
no, I'm not feeling like I'm in

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the right team, for role or
firm. And of course that then means

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that you know, a conversation about
why and how that can change and what

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needs to be done to address that
can happen. And so you know,

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I think radical candor is you know, getting a little bit of airplay.

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And that would be an example of
where we've seen that level of confidence and

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culture and interesting employees to make sure
that they are in the right role,

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team and for perpetually really paid dividends. And we've seen that people who have

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answered no to that question in a
cycle have had an intervention and then have

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started to answer yes to that question
subsequent to that intervention. So we can

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see, you know that the direct
consequence of asking the engage on questions and

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00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:08.280
then attending to the answers has helped
with retention and motivation of a reasonable proportion

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of that workforce. So four or
five percent of your workforce being re engaged

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and realergized is significant. It is
significant. It certainly is and I also,

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I do appreciate that radical candor.
I've never heard that phrase before,

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00:34:25.719 --> 00:34:30.840
but I quite like that. And
I purposely did this, David, in

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00:34:30.920 --> 00:34:32.800
terms of how I wanted to chat
with you in this conversation. I wanted

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you to sort of talk through some
of your thinking and what's important to you

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00:34:37.320 --> 00:34:39.719
before I asked you how the platform
actually works so that our listeners could be

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00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:44.639
more present to really understanding it better. So at this juncture, will you

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00:34:44.679 --> 00:34:46.679
tell us, I mean a little
bit about pay compliment and how it enables

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00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:51.760
a lifelong platform for the individual and
how it actually serves the various parties that

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00:34:51.800 --> 00:34:54.760
you work with, How does it
work and what's involved. Yeah, so

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00:34:55.199 --> 00:34:59.239
I won't turn this into a sales
pitch, but I will talk about as

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00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:01.519
the things that are in important too
in our model. And so the first

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one that you mentioned there is lifelong
and so we are a member based platform,

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whether the individual is the member and
their membership is sometimes initiated independently,

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00:35:16.960 --> 00:35:25.599
but often initiated by an employer.
Regardless of that, their membership lasts for

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00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:30.840
their life. And with the rise
in the gig economy, we think that's

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really important because what we're trying to
address with that aspect of the platform is

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that more and more workers are in
non exclusive relationships with an employer or in

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00:35:46.599 --> 00:35:57.199
short tenure relationships with an employer,
and if we use employer centric platforms for

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00:35:57.719 --> 00:36:05.239
performance, then those individuals don't have
any continuity what they learned, how they

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00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:09.320
were coached, the feedback that they
received, that all gets left behind when

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00:36:09.320 --> 00:36:15.719
they moved from one organization to the
next, or if they're working concurrently as

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00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:22.400
a gig worker for several organizations,
then their signals are fragmented and they're not

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00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:31.599
consolidated into one cogent stream that drives
that individual's improvement. So by having a

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lifelong employee centric platform, we think
we address that. The second thing that

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we're trying to do is recognize that
organizations these days are much more of a

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network and much less of a hierarchy, and so the relationships that we have

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00:36:51.239 --> 00:37:00.360
inside of those organizations are more fluid, and we should rely less on the

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idea that information is going to come
to us from a cascading effect through an

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organizational hierarchy. And so we democratized
feedback by making the opportunity to give and

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get feedback available to anyone at any
time. And so we've talked a lot

408
00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:28.679
about leadership, but in this context, we would see everyone in the organization

409
00:37:28.760 --> 00:37:34.719
of being as being a leader at
least of themselves, and potentially a leader

410
00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:42.079
through influencer rather than title or position
of others by coaching and through events.

411
00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:47.880
So we've democratized feedback, we've made
it lifelong. We're employee centric platform,

412
00:37:49.639 --> 00:37:54.039
and we provide both structured and unstructured
means. And so if I want to

413
00:37:54.039 --> 00:37:59.280
give feedback just in my own language, you know, as a story or

414
00:37:59.320 --> 00:38:06.039
an observation, I can do that
by writing it or recording video or speech.

415
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:10.360
But on the other hand, if
I need some structure and I want

416
00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:16.559
to use a mechanism like stock keep
Start or full level coaching feedback or even

417
00:38:16.599 --> 00:38:22.199
net promoter scores, then you know, we have templates that are structured to

418
00:38:23.000 --> 00:38:34.280
allow that to happen. So very
variety is important to us, and we

419
00:38:34.360 --> 00:38:37.719
think, you know, a good
feedback diet is a varied feedback diet.

420
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:49.039
It's a mix of assessments and grading
as well as storytelling and situational observation.

421
00:38:49.639 --> 00:38:52.840
Brilliant, David, Oh my gosh, I'm so impressed. That really is

422
00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:55.440
brilliant and approvate, witted sentid into
our last break. I'm your host,

423
00:38:55.480 --> 00:38:59.079
Alice Cortez. We've been on the
air with David Perks, who is the

424
00:38:59.079 --> 00:39:02.039
founder and CEO of pay Complement,
a platform for customers, peers, and

425
00:39:02.079 --> 00:39:06.960
managers to give direct feedback to the
people and organizations they interact with, so

426
00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:10.199
that customer service levels and employee performance
are maintained at the highest possible levels,

427
00:39:10.239 --> 00:39:14.400
in real time, all the time. Stay with us, We'll be right

428
00:39:14.440 --> 00:39:31.840
back. It's your world. Motivate, change, succeed. Voice America Empowerment

429
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:40.119
dot com. Alice Cortez is a
speaker and engagement and development catalyst. She

430
00:39:40.239 --> 00:39:46.079
designs and delivers professional development, leadership
and engagement workshops and can bring her expertise

431
00:39:46.119 --> 00:39:51.880
to your organization. She will help
ignite meaningful development within your workforce that will

432
00:39:51.880 --> 00:39:55.960
increase employee engagement, performance and retention. To learn more or to invite Elise

433
00:39:57.039 --> 00:40:01.760
to speak to your organization, please
visit her at w dot Eliscortes dot com.

434
00:40:01.880 --> 00:40:07.320
She would welcome the opportunity to help
get your employees working on purpose.

435
00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:12.360
Many of us define our lives by
what has already happened. It's a past

436
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:15.000
ten series of events. Do you
long for something else? You don't have

437
00:40:15.079 --> 00:40:20.440
to live solely in this reality.
Tune in for to Win Within with hosts

438
00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:23.599
Strom, thomasin Stram and his guests
are here to introduce you to your true

439
00:40:23.599 --> 00:40:28.400
self. It's time to emerge from
your box and take a beautiful journey of

440
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self love and discovery. You'll find
yourself exactly where you need to be.

441
00:40:32.199 --> 00:40:37.239
To Win Within. Airs live every
Thursday at four pm Eastern Time one pm

442
00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:42.880
Pacific Time on Voice America Empowerment.
Do we really have a full understanding as

443
00:40:42.920 --> 00:40:46.199
to why we do certain things and
function the way that we do. There

444
00:40:46.239 --> 00:40:50.920
are many different aspects of trauma,
and you can learn more about them and

445
00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:54.840
how to overcome the symptoms by tuning
in to Trauma Talk with hosts as Rena

446
00:40:54.960 --> 00:41:00.719
Rose Scott. On Trauma Talk as
Rena and her special guest experts and clients,

447
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:05.719
we'll discuss the different results of trauma
and some effective methods in resolving and

448
00:41:05.840 --> 00:41:09.079
healing from them. Listen live every
Tuesday at ninety in Pacific time, new

449
00:41:09.119 --> 00:41:15.280
in Eastern Time on Voice America Empowerment. Friend us on Facebook to keep up

450
00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:29.480
with what's empowering the world. Voice
America Empowerment. This is Working on Purpose

451
00:41:29.559 --> 00:41:32.679
with Elise Cortes. To reach our
program today, please call in to one

452
00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:37.559
triple eight three four six nine one
four one. Again that's one triple eight

453
00:41:37.719 --> 00:41:42.760
three four six nine one four one. You may also send an email to

454
00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:50.800
Alease a l Se at Elisecortes dot
com. Now back to Working on Purpose.

455
00:41:52.199 --> 00:41:54.760
Thanks for staying with us, and
welcome back to Working on Purpose.

456
00:41:54.920 --> 00:41:58.360
If you're just tuning in. My
guest is David Perks, who is the

457
00:41:58.400 --> 00:42:01.840
founder and CEO of paycompla a platform
for customers, peers, and managers to

458
00:42:01.880 --> 00:42:06.920
give direct feedback to the people and
organizations they interact with so that customer service

459
00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:09.719
levels and employee performance are maintained at
the highest possible levels in real time.

460
00:42:10.079 --> 00:42:14.840
I'm your host, Alice Cortes.
So, David, that was a tremendous

461
00:42:15.000 --> 00:42:19.400
rendition of what you've established as a
platform. I'm terribly impressed, and so

462
00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:21.519
glad I found you, and so
glad I get to share this with our

463
00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:25.000
listeners across the globe. I'm certainly
a fan. And one of the things

464
00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:29.599
that you also said there as you
were talking about your platform is this move

465
00:42:29.679 --> 00:42:32.400
toward the gig economy, And of
course I recognize that from the Free Agent

466
00:42:32.519 --> 00:42:37.119
Nation book that Dan Pink wrote years
ago, but I'd like it if you

467
00:42:37.119 --> 00:42:39.880
could talk a bit about what you
know of the gig economy and what it

468
00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:45.280
is you're trying to address in it. YEP. So, the gig economy

469
00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:54.239
is growing, and it's not just
the likes of zero resource organizations like Uber

470
00:42:54.519 --> 00:43:00.480
and AIRB and B and the likes
of those, but it's the use of

471
00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:06.679
contingent workers, temporary workers, contracts, as consultants in an enterprise that's growing

472
00:43:07.880 --> 00:43:15.000
at the expense of normal salaried workers. And so we see a future where

473
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:22.239
many more individuals are going to be
deriving their income from the gig economy and

474
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:30.239
their own endeavors as an individual.
And depending on the stat you believe,

475
00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:36.639
you know already that might be affecting
forty to fifty percent of the workforce in

476
00:43:36.760 --> 00:43:40.440
the US that are involved in the
gig economy in some way, shape or

477
00:43:40.599 --> 00:43:47.880
form. And we think there's some
changes in behavior that are required that we're

478
00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:54.000
trying to drive there from the organization
and from the individual. And so from

479
00:43:54.000 --> 00:44:00.519
the organization, what we see and
we've surveyed a lot to cover this,

480
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:10.800
most organizations exclude non salaried staff from
performance management and performance improvement, and so

481
00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:21.519
those staff are not getting through the
organization assessment. They're not getting learning resources,

482
00:44:21.679 --> 00:44:28.760
they're not getting opportunities that are assigned
necessarily aligned to their purpose. They

483
00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:31.840
might be getting those things through chance, but they're not getting those things through

484
00:44:31.880 --> 00:44:38.800
design. And we think that the
mindset of organizations who are using gig economy

485
00:44:38.840 --> 00:44:45.760
workers needs to be a stewardship mindset
that whilst that gig economy worker is working

486
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:52.039
for my organization, I am responsible
for they for their development, and for

487
00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:59.000
helping them to do their best work, as opposed to a hands off kind

488
00:44:59.000 --> 00:45:05.639
of approach of them a high fee
or a significant daily rate and expect that

489
00:45:05.679 --> 00:45:12.119
they bring the skills necessary to the
transaction. So there's that element from the

490
00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:17.239
individual perspective. What we've noticed is
that when workers enter the gig economy,

491
00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:23.440
there's a high likelihood that they will
enter at a certain level the level that

492
00:45:23.480 --> 00:45:29.719
they're performing at at the time,
and that they will remain at that level

493
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:36.480
for their entire subsequent time in the
gig economy, rather than developing themselves.

494
00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:39.119
And so we see that in the
gig economy. You need to be the

495
00:45:39.159 --> 00:45:45.440
CEO of yourself, and that you
need to take control of your own product,

496
00:45:45.559 --> 00:45:51.239
which is you and the value of
that product, and we provide the

497
00:45:51.280 --> 00:45:54.719
toolset to do that. Again,
David, there's so much wonderful alignment here.

498
00:45:55.119 --> 00:45:59.519
Anybody who's listened to my show a
little bit knows that I'm horribly interested

499
00:45:59.599 --> 00:46:05.800
in artificial intelligence and robotics and how
the workforce will need to continue to evolve

500
00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:09.199
their own skill sets to be able
to play more in that arena and complement

501
00:46:09.280 --> 00:46:14.679
that that technology and continue to develop
their skills so that they're they're viable.

502
00:46:14.760 --> 00:46:17.920
And I certainly see that what you're
up to helps enable that, and I

503
00:46:17.960 --> 00:46:22.599
really really appreciate and I applaud that
that's tremendous for me. Thank you.

504
00:46:23.039 --> 00:46:29.559
Yeah, I'm so glad I found
you, and you've already mentioned it.

505
00:46:29.599 --> 00:46:30.719
But this whole notion of you and
I were chatting on the phone, that

506
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:35.239
you know, without the feedback,
the risk is that the worker stagnates without

507
00:46:35.239 --> 00:46:37.519
progressing, which is just what you've
already surfaced. I can tell you that

508
00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:42.239
in the coaching work that I do, I oftentimes run into people with either

509
00:46:42.280 --> 00:46:45.960
two situations one is they do need
to continue to develop their skills and their

510
00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:51.599
competencies to progress, either they've been
asked to do so or they're board or

511
00:46:51.679 --> 00:46:53.880
too. In many cases, especially
with women, they frankly need to develop

512
00:46:53.880 --> 00:46:59.039
their confidence in order to take on
more. And it seems to me that

513
00:46:59.119 --> 00:47:04.360
your tool would be able to address
and give information on both those fronts.

514
00:47:05.039 --> 00:47:08.679
Yeah, in fact, we won't
have time to talk about it today,

515
00:47:08.679 --> 00:47:19.000
but we've done some really insightful work
about performance achievement based on gender, and

516
00:47:19.079 --> 00:47:24.480
so the techniques and methods that a
female worker needs to adopt versus a male

517
00:47:24.599 --> 00:47:32.719
worker, and suffice it to say
that depending on gender requires the persons to

518
00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:39.480
take a different approach. And so
we're coaching females and working with an organization

519
00:47:39.639 --> 00:47:46.280
called Heart and Brain in the UK
to coach females to achieve performance in a

520
00:47:46.360 --> 00:47:52.239
different way than we're coaching males to
achieve performance, and that's based upon patterns

521
00:47:52.239 --> 00:47:59.760
of behavior that we've been able to
use artificial intelligence and data mining to surface.

522
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:06.760
It's a fascinating area. The other
thing that we've started to do,

523
00:48:06.800 --> 00:48:13.760
and this is based upon some insights
from Josh Berson and David Rocket the new

524
00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:20.320
Leadership Institute. We are in the
midst of building micro learning into the platform

525
00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:24.239
as well as the feedback aspect,
and so what we will do with that

526
00:48:24.440 --> 00:48:31.599
is joining up the experience of receiving
feedback and an observation to also then having

527
00:48:31.639 --> 00:48:39.079
the resources available to address that if
there's a learning need or an adjustment required

528
00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:46.000
in actually providing the training resources on
platform. And so that is very much

529
00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:58.559
geared towards enabling the independent worker or
the gig worker to control their destiny all

530
00:48:58.599 --> 00:49:01.719
on one platform the way that they
choose, at the pace that they choose.

531
00:49:02.559 --> 00:49:06.960
Wow. Another point of brilliance,
David, When does this bigot step

532
00:49:07.559 --> 00:49:12.320
of brilliance? I'm just wondering wonderful? You know, really, we probably

533
00:49:12.320 --> 00:49:14.920
need to see about having you come
back and see if you can share some

534
00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:17.639
of these things with our listeners.
They're all incredibly pertinent in my listenership and

535
00:49:17.960 --> 00:49:22.400
would be well received. So we'll
talk about that another time, But for

536
00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:23.760
what's left of this session, a
couple more things I would like to get

537
00:49:23.760 --> 00:49:27.360
out of you if I can.
David. One of the things that you

538
00:49:27.440 --> 00:49:31.039
also mentioned when we first spoke was
that you are interested in helping workers stay

539
00:49:31.079 --> 00:49:36.079
true to their passion. How do
you help them do that? Well,

540
00:49:36.159 --> 00:49:39.760
I think the first thing is uncovering
the passion. So I've actually found that,

541
00:49:39.880 --> 00:49:45.360
you know, when you ask an
individual about their purpose and their passion,

542
00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:52.440
quite quite often there's an uncomfortable silence
after that. And so you know,

543
00:49:52.599 --> 00:49:59.800
prompting that thought to really get precise
about you know, why you're w

544
00:50:00.519 --> 00:50:06.920
is where we start and then aligning
all of these signals to that and saying,

545
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:10.719
okay, well, how do we
you know, fast track your path

546
00:50:10.800 --> 00:50:21.159
to to resolving your why is where
the platform comes in and crowdsourcing all of

547
00:50:21.199 --> 00:50:27.599
the input that's necessary, you know, to take you along that fast path.

548
00:50:27.719 --> 00:50:34.199
So that's really the paradigm for us
is crowdsourcing these signals, aggregating them

549
00:50:34.199 --> 00:50:37.679
all into one stream for the individual, no matter where they're coming from,

550
00:50:38.599 --> 00:50:45.280
and then allowing that individual to progress
and to see their progress in real time

551
00:50:45.639 --> 00:50:50.880
all of the time. Wow.
Another big fat wow. Now what I

552
00:50:51.239 --> 00:50:54.119
don't know that I fully understand is
crowdsourcing the signals. Would you say more

553
00:50:54.119 --> 00:51:00.599
about that? Yeah? So what
we do as we provide a feed ID,

554
00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:04.679
and that ID is unique to you, and so what that can be

555
00:51:04.800 --> 00:51:07.400
used for is on my business card, it's in my email signatures as a

556
00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:13.199
button, it can be on any
report that I produce. It's a way

557
00:51:13.239 --> 00:51:16.079
of saying I am open for your
feedback, I would like it, and

558
00:51:16.119 --> 00:51:21.119
this is the means by which you
can give it to me directly and privately.

559
00:51:22.199 --> 00:51:25.119
And so there are fifty five touch
points that we've identified that would be

560
00:51:27.239 --> 00:51:32.719
appropriate to prompt for feedback, and
so what we do is we feedback enable

561
00:51:34.039 --> 00:51:38.960
all of those so that you can
capture signals at any of those touch points

562
00:51:38.719 --> 00:51:45.280
with any individual in private, in
real time. David Proster, is there

563
00:51:45.280 --> 00:51:51.079
anything you have not thought through on
this? There's a lot on our backlog

564
00:51:51.159 --> 00:51:57.559
that we're that we're striving to do
at last, but we're really pleased with

565
00:51:57.639 --> 00:52:00.360
the performance of the platform so far
and we can see that it's making a

566
00:52:00.440 --> 00:52:07.719
difference and that's what's driving us each
day to make it easier to use,

567
00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:16.440
to make it impactful, and to
broaden the awareness of it splendid. Well,

568
00:52:16.440 --> 00:52:21.039
we're almost at a time and if
my listeners know that, I like

569
00:52:21.079 --> 00:52:22.920
to give my guests the last word
here, so you know, the show,

570
00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:28.079
David is about helping listeners across the
globe more meaningfully and productively connect with

571
00:52:28.119 --> 00:52:30.559
their work, and equipping organizations to
do the same for their employees. Given

572
00:52:30.679 --> 00:52:34.519
that, how would you like to
leave our listeners today? What would you

573
00:52:34.599 --> 00:52:37.960
like to leave them with? I
think there's two calls to action. One

574
00:52:37.079 --> 00:52:40.920
is to think about the feedback that
you need to get to do your best

575
00:52:40.920 --> 00:52:46.039
work every day, and if you're
not getting that, to ask for it,

576
00:52:46.400 --> 00:52:50.360
and you can use our platform,
or you can use any other means

577
00:52:50.360 --> 00:52:53.880
that you like to do that.
And the second is set yourself a challenge

578
00:52:53.960 --> 00:53:00.519
to share something that you've noticed that
would help someone to improve that performance,

579
00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:05.360
and to do that every day.
And if you do those two things,

580
00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:09.280
then your impact on the world and
the impact that you're making on the world

581
00:53:09.320 --> 00:53:15.760
will very quickly increase. What a
fantastic way to finish. David. I

582
00:53:15.960 --> 00:53:21.199
am so hopelessly glad I found you. We are absolutely of like minds on

583
00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:23.519
so many ways, really impressed with
the work that you're doing. Want to

584
00:53:23.519 --> 00:53:29.000
help evangelize it. I'm a fan. I look forward to other conversations with

585
00:53:29.039 --> 00:53:31.119
you and staying in touch. Thank
you for being with us and sharing your

586
00:53:31.440 --> 00:53:35.079
wisdom, your passion, your heart, all of it. Thank you.

587
00:53:35.719 --> 00:53:37.880
Thanks so much for the opportunity at
least. If you want to learn more

588
00:53:37.880 --> 00:53:42.159
about the work David and his team
at pay Compliment are doing, visit their

589
00:53:42.199 --> 00:53:45.679
website. It is simply paycompliment dot
com. P A Y C O,

590
00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:51.119
M P l I, M E
n T dot com. Join us next

591
00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:53.360
week when we talk with Mac Pritchard
of Preture Communications, who will share what

592
00:53:53.400 --> 00:53:57.880
he's learned to help job seekers utilize
unique ways to find the job they really

593
00:53:57.920 --> 00:54:00.159
want. So you then remember that
workers at least one third of our life,

594
00:54:00.199 --> 00:54:09.880
So let's work on Purpose. We
hope you've enjoyed this week's program.

595
00:54:10.039 --> 00:54:15.119
Be sure to tune into Working on
Purpose, featuring your host Elise Cortes,

596
00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:20.159
every Wednesday at six pm Eastern Time
three pm Pacific Time on the Voice America

597
00:54:20.239 --> 00:54:23.360
Empowerment Channel. This week, find
your life's purpose at work.